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Alternate Timelines · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the time continuum has been disrupted, creating this new temporal event sequence resulting in this alternate reality.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: English, Doc.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Here, here, here.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Let me illustrate.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Imagine that this line represents time.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: There's a present, 1985, and future, and past.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Prior to this point in time, somewhere in the past, the timeline skewed into this tangent, creating an alternate 1985.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Alternate to you, me, and Einstein, but reality for everyone else.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Hannes, and I'm Steve Worth.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: And on this episode, we decided to do something a little different.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: We're going to channel one of our favorite movies, Back to the Future, part two.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: And we're going to look at some alternate timelines.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: So if you've never seen Back to the Future 2, first of all, what's wrong with you?
1:21
SPEAKER_02: And if you but if you have never seen it, the the premise of the movie is that one of the characters goes back in time, he alters an event in the past, and then it creates an alternate 1985 for the two main characters.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Like they're transported into this alternate reality where uh everything's different from what it was.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: And so we thought we'd apply that to Pittsburgh sports.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: We take some significant moments in Pittsburgh sports and then sort of say, okay, here's what happened in the original timeline, and then and then um sort of present a uh you know, a a creative, sort of speculative what would have happened differently uh had had things gone differently.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: So a little different and it's gonna be us speculating a lot in this episode on things that could have happened.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: But we thought it'd be fun to go back and and and and do.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: So Steve's gonna take the first one here.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm gonna we're gonna start with the first one.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: And I guess I guess these things could be big or bad good or bad considering your perspective, because uh the same thing happens to Marty in the first one, like he does change the future, but it's all positive.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: So like I mean it's bad for Biff, I guess, but Biff's now auto-detailing instead of wrecking his dad's car.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: And now they all have a nice house and he's a writer.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: You're right, but in the second one, it it's bad for Marty.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: So you're right.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: These are the same thing.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: It could have turned out better for the Pittsburgh's.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, you'll see with the first one.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: So we'll dive into the first one.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: So here's what we call uh Ben misses the tack tackle.
2:55
SPEAKER_03: The original timeline is that Ben Rothelsberger tackles Nick Harper in the 2005 AFC divisional championship game against the Colts, and uh the Steelers win the game in the Super Bowl that year.
3:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh we covered just that game in uh a podcast that uh just dropped.
3:12
SPEAKER_03: And um so now on the alternative timeline, um let's go back, Ben misses the tackle.
3:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh Nick Harper decides to stay to the right, and uh Ben can't catch him, and he, you know, dances his way, celebrates with like the little one and two guys over in the corner.
3:27
SPEAKER_03: They're having fun, you know, and uh, you know, confetti's all over the field.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: Um it's it's a great moment.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, NFL films, the all-time greatest moments in Colts' history, you know, they were down to, you know, and my best John Facenda voice, you know, down with three timeouts and uh up to a sack on Peyton Manning.
3:49
SPEAKER_03: Nick Harper didn't give up.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: But uh anywho, uh so what happens is after the Colts win the game, Jerome Bettis, who almost retired the year before, decides that the bus stops in Indianapolis and he retires after the game.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: Um unfortunately, Bettis joins other all-time sport figures in sport figures in infany, just not locally, like Stan Belinda, who gave up the hit.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: Um Tim McKayre, who got burned, um Fred Snodgrass, who nobody will remember, he dropped like a fly ball in like the 1920-something World Series.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh Bill Buckner, the guy who missed the ball for the Red Sox at first base.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: Ernest Biner, the fumble.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: Ernest Spiner is another guy who fumbled that cost uh Cleveland a game.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: And of course, poor Scott Norwood, although Scott Norwood just missed a field goal, but it did cost the Bills a Super Bowl.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: So what else happens besides just poor, poor Jerome Bettis?
4:47
SPEAKER_03: Because of that, Jerome Bettis doesn't get to open his restaurant because who wants to eat at a restaurant of a loser who all he can do is fumble when the game's on the line.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't get a local or national TV shows.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: He and even with him finishing with uh 13,000 career rushing yards in the NFL, he doesn't make the Hall of Fame because all anyone can ever remember is that fumble.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: So he's like still like top ten in rushing and finished his career that had this great career.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: It's just like even, you know, I I mean maybe that one's debatable that you guys need the Hall of Fame, but I would say it would have taken him a lot longer, if ever, to get in.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: Um the play unfortunately goes down in Pittsburgh infamy to uh for the Pittsburgh perspective perspective.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: It joins the Sid Slid 94 game, nine the Sid Slid game, the 94 AFC Championship game, the Pens losing the Islanders in game seven and ninety-two and ninety-three.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: Um the Colts do survive.
5:48
SPEAKER_03: Um it's great for the Colts.
5:50
SPEAKER_03: They they survive and they advance.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: I think they beat Denver at home and they beat Seattle, and Seattle uh can cry about the officials to the Colts.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: Um I have the Colts repeating the following year because they that's what they ended up doing, was they end up winning the next year.
6:06
SPEAKER_03: So they go back to back and they win Super Bowl 41 in the rain over the Bears and uh that amazing quarterback Rex Grossman.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: Um Peyton uh Peyton Manning retires with three Super Bowl rings.
6:17
SPEAKER_03: Tony Dungey also finished his career with two Super Bowl wins.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: Um Bill Cower maybe hangs on for one more year after that and decides that you know he's sick of getting his gas at night, you know, so he he retires after a disappointing season.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: His wife also is ill, so maybe he's just you know, there's some personal stuff going on.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: It's kinda sad.
6:37
SPEAKER_03: It's kinda really sad for poor Bill there.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: And um he's obviously not on the CBS show or anything, maybe, you know, I don't know.
6:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh Coward never wins a Super Bowl.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: He goes down in history like Bud Grant or Marv Levy or even his mentor Marty Schottenheimer.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: You know, the good, really good coaches that just never could bring home the big one.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: Even with all his success and great wins, he's another guy who just never because he never wins that Super Bowl, he never makes the NFL Hall of Fame, I don't think.
7:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh Mike Tomlin, they still hire Mike Tomlin after that next season.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh Mike Tomlin does take the Steelers to Super Bowl 43, and they still win on the Super Bowl, the San Antonio catch, and that's the one for the thumb.
7:20
SPEAKER_03: So I it's not complete I didn't completely go outlanders.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: I kind of tried to harmonize it with like stuff that still happened, you know.
7:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: So the timelines still kind of merge, you know, because you know, I'm not like thinking it's totally just going to go one way.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Um unfortunately the ripple effect is that the Patriots have the most Super Bowl wins of all time.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Six.
7:41
SPEAKER_03: Hello, yeah.
7:41
SPEAKER_03: You don't have that bragging right over them anymore.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Now the Bill Belchak and uh Tom Brady have the most Super Bowl wins.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, they do anyway, but the six, no doubt.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: Can't can't even debate it.
7:53
SPEAKER_03: And this is all due to Ben not not making not making the tackle.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: All due to Nick Harper turning right instead of left.
8:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, really.
8:01
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: I like it.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: So that one's kind of depressing uh in a lot of different ways.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: Not the least, the wishes dial the Patriots have six Super Bowl wins.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, that's that's a good start.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go with another, I'm gonna go hockey with my first one.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: And my this one's called Uwe Krupp's shot is blocked.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: So here's what happened in the original timeline.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: In the 89-90 season, the Penguins are battling for a playoff spot.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh Mario was having a really good year that year, Mario Lemieux.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: He had actually put together this record scoring streak where he scored in like 50 straight games, uh, but he hurt his back and misses almost two months of the season.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Pens are still in contention for a playoff spot all the way down to the last game of the season versus Buffalo.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: And to get into the playoffs, they don't need to beat Buffalo.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: They just need to at least tie Buffalo.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: So back then they didn't have the shootouts.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: If you played five minutes overtime and the game ended, it just ended in a tie.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh and uh as an added boost for this game, Mario actually returns his first game in months.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: He's still very hobbled, but he is still effective.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: He actually scores a goal and has an assist.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: And uh of course, the game does go into overtime, and literally all the pens need to do to get to the playoffs is to skate around for five minutes and at least force a tie.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if they score a goal and win, that's that gets him in also.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: But at the very least, just don't let them score.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, Uwe Kroup is a defenseman for the Buffalo Sabres.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: He only had two goals the whole season.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: He scores on a 60-foot slap shot from the blue line.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he was shooting it from outer space and he scores.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: And Uwe Krupp had a knack for scoring dramatic goals.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh years later, he actually scored the Stanley Cup winning goal for the Colorado Avalanche in an overtime uh game against the Florida Panthers.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh so the Pens lose, and the final playoff spot in the Patrick Division goes to the Islanders, not the Penguins.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: So they missed the playoffs on that goal.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: And it's at the time it's seen as like this absolutely disastrous moment for the Penguins, who had had many disastrous moments up to this point in their franchise history.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: But looking back on it years later, it's actually a blessing in disguise because the Penguins, as a result of not making the playoffs, now possess the number five overall pick in the 1990 draft, and they use it to select a winger, a Czech winger named Yaramir Jager.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: Jager helps lead the Penguins to the next two Stanley Cups and becomes one of the greatest and most enigmatic players in team history.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: So that's what happened in the original timeline.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: So let's go with the alternate timeline where Krupp's shot is blocked.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: He does not get that puck in.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And the Penguins hang on for a tie and they advance to the postseason.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: So in that timeline, Mario's still clearly hampered by the back injury.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: So the Penguins make it to the playoffs, but they bow it pretty early.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, without a healthy Mario, they didn't really have that good of a team otherwise.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: So now they're eliminated from the playoffs and they no longer possess that number five draft pick, so they miss out on drafting Yarmir Jager.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: So the next year they make it to the playoffs, and in the first round of the playoffs, they face the New Jersey Devils.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: In the original timeline of that 91 season, the Devils won three of the first five games of that series.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: The one one of the games that the Penguins won was Game Two, which was won in overtime on a goal by Yarmir Jager.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: So without Yagger there to score the overtime goal, the Devils win Game Two.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: They take the series in five games.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: The 91 Penguins are eliminated in the first round.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's devastating.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: The Penguins put together some decent playoff runs after that, but they never do win a Stanley Cup.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Mario retires without a championship.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: And in 1999, when Jager scores the quote unquote franchise saving goal against the Devils, we did a whole episode about that.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: He's not there to score that goal either.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: The team in total bankruptcy and ruin without the money that they would have had from winning the cups and the popularity from that.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: They're bankrupt, they're taken over by the league, and they're moved to Kansas City.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: And years later, Steve and I do a podcast episode on Pittsburgh Sports Memories reflecting on the time when Pittsburgh had a pro hockey team.
12:27
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's kind of uh Yeah.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: You thought yours was a downer.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: This one almost had like a uh it's a wonderful life feel.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: That's what I was thinking when I was writing that.
12:39
SPEAKER_03: It's like you weren't there to pull him out of the ice.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: All the men on that transport died because Harry Bailey wasn't there to save them.
12:49
SPEAKER_03: My best Jimmy Stewart.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean mine kind of had a ripple effect too, but there are a lot of weird ripple effects when you start kind of unpacking these.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's hard to predict.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we obviously had fun with it.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: So I mean like I said, you you can get as ridiculous as you want from this.
13:08
SPEAKER_03: And predicting the future is like, you know, who can?
13:11
SPEAKER_02: But I mean without Yager, the the the Penguins, I mean that's that's I don't think that's too much.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: Maybe somebody else comes along.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: Maybe like Yager too, like that's why Yager fell to fifth.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: Like everybody knew he was the best player, but nobody thought he would come from the Czech Republic for some reason.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Because and it was still like well ninety, when did the wall?
13:32
SPEAKER_03: Wall was down in 89.
13:34
SPEAKER_03: But I think the Russian republics were still but the Czech hadn't I think it was still Czechoslovakia.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Things were still dodgy.
13:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like Czechoslovakia was still Czechoslovakia.
13:43
SPEAKER_03: The Czechs and Slovak hadn't said you you know you keep Yager, we'll take HOSA and call it a day.
13:50
SPEAKER_03: That's how I remember my Czechs and my Slovaks.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what would have happened, but definitely the Penguins would not have had a high draft pick, and all it would have taken would have been somebody to say, hey, we'll draft them.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: And the Penguins would have been stuck with who knows who.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: and Yager would be.
14:05
SPEAKER_03: Yager is one of the most pivotal picks definitely in team history outside of Lemieux.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: And that's all because Uwe Krupp for the Sabres blasted a shot from 60 feet away.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: In Lemieux, like without the Stanley Cups wouldn't have had the clout to like buy the pick to save the team.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's it's it's a good one.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: Harry Bailey's a war hero.
14:23
SPEAKER_03: Um the next one is uh a great what if, and every I've thought this a million times.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh Dan Marino is drafted by the Steelers.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Chuck Noel and Art Rooney Art Rooney Jr., who is Dan Rooney's younger brother who ran the Scouting, they uh the original time, Brian goes, they draft Gabe Rivera instead of Dan Marino.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: Uh in his book, which I read, his logic was was well we built with a defensive line the first time, that's how we're gonna do it.
14:53
SPEAKER_03: And you know, Dan Rooney actually came up with a plan to get Dan Marino, but was laughed out of the room by his younger brother and Chuck Knoll.
15:02
SPEAKER_03: Um Gabe Rivera unfortunately got in a car accident and became paralyzed and never, you know, senior sack never got any sacks in the uh in the uh the NFL.
15:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Steelers slid in the mediocre through the eighties, and they really don't draft another for franchise quarterback until 2004 with Ben Rothelsberger.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: So they kind of go from Terry Bradshaw to Ben Rothelsburg with really the only quarterbacks of any note were Neil O'Donnell and Cordell Stewart.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
15:30
SPEAKER_03: So um the alternate timeline is Dan Rooney somehow walks in.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't tell that it's uh John Clayton's idea, he just pitches it his own.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: So Chuck Knoll and uh his younger brother take him seriously, and they're like, hey, you know what?
15:48
SPEAKER_03: That's not a bad idea.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna pass on a defensive line, we're gonna take that quarterback.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: They don't come around that often.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: I know there's like four this year, but I got a feeling, you know, if we don't take one, we're not gonna have one for a while.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers, uh, when they draft Dan Marino, they remain in win now Super Bowl mode.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: And in 1984, when they have to play Miami, now the roles are reversed.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: And Don Shula has to have David Woodley or whoever he had a quarterback instead of Marino.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: And uh the the Marino smokes smokes them in the uh you know championship game.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: They go on.
16:26
SPEAKER_03: The Steelers uh I have them beating Miami and San Francisco in the Super Bowl.
16:31
SPEAKER_03: San Francisco was really good that year.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: But Miami was competitive in that Super Bowl.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: And and Pittsburgh had beaten San Francisco, lost one game in 1984.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Who was it against?
16:41
SPEAKER_03: It was against us.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: It was against the Steelers.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: So there you go.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: So now, yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: So okay, there's one for the thumb there.
16:47
SPEAKER_03: We got our one for the thumb.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: Um Chuck Knoll gets I I'm gonna guess at least two more Super Bowl wins.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: He still retires in 1991 with six Super Bowls.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: Take that, Bill Belichick, and Dan Chula, he has the all-time win record.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: Ha ha.
17:03
SPEAKER_03: So Dan Marino it does even better.
17:06
SPEAKER_03: He gets four Super Bowl rings total.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm saying like that 89 team that started off so badly that Noel had to turn around.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: If he has Dan Marino instead of Bobby Brister, like they probably win a Super Bowl, they probably pull out like an improbable, like they probably pull out an improbable Super Bowl win somewhere else along the way.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: I can see it.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Bill Marino gets Bill Cower as coach, and uh Merino doesn't throw interceptions to people covering grass.
17:31
SPEAKER_03: So so hey, they win Super Bowl 30.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: And Dan Marino decides, hey, you know what?
17:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna outplay John Elway in that in in the neck in the AFC championship game in 97.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't throw interceptions to the middle linebackers named Romanowski or whoever he did.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: So the Steelers win that Super Bowl too over uh Green Bay.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: Marino goes out like John Elway style, like you know, this one's for Dan, you know.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: He retires in 1999 with uh what do I say, four four Super Bowl rings?
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Now here's the like kind of like the up The weird downside of that is uh John Elway retires without a Super Bowl ring.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: So this one isn't for John.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh and the 49ers only have three Super Bowl titles, so you know, without you know, it's kind of like the Harry Baylor, you know.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: Dan Marino is a Super Bowl winning quarterback, and John Elway isn't.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: So and the 49ers only have three Super Bowl wins, and you know, there you go.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Wow, I like that one.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's uh I figured it can't be all downers, right?
18:37
SPEAKER_03: Some gotta work out in your favor eventually.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: Good one.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: All right, I'm gonna go with another one that would have worked out potentially better.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: And this one I'm I'm definitely getting into the highly highly speculative territory here.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: This one is called Joe Flacco Keeps the Drive Alive.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: So in the original timeline, Pit Pitt's hosting Nebraska.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: This is September 18th, 2004, a game at Heinz Field, Pitt versus Nebraska.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: The starting quarterback for Pitt is Tyler Pauco, and he's having an awful game.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: He throws three interceptions and he's actually booed by the home fans.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So the the head coach of Pitts, Walt Harris, and he sends a right for red shirt freshman into the game by the name of Joe Flacco.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: This is uh late in the third quarter because they're down by a lot.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: What does he have to lose?
19:29
SPEAKER_02: He puts Joe Flacco into the game.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh Flacco does scramble for one first down, but then his only other pass attempt, he's sacked.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: And that leads to a third and long, and Harris, like typical Law Harris call, uh calls for a quick kick on third and long, and Flacco shanks the punt because he's not a punter.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh and so then that's the end of Joe Flacco.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: He brings Palco back into the game.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, and Palco actually recovers.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: He actually almost leads Pitt back from a 14-point deficit.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh the the Pitt still loses, but Palco becomes entrenched as a starter for the remainder of the season.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Actually leads Pitt to the Fiesta Bowl that year.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh pretty, pretty good season for Pitt in 2004.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: We covered that in another uh episode.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh Flacco, you know, he realizes, hey, I have no future here.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Um Palco's the starter, so he transfers to Delaware and he establishes himself there and he leads to him being selected number 18 overall by the Ravens in 2008.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Flacco becomes a central figure in the Steelers Ravens rivalry, and he ultimately leads the Ravens to a Super Bowl victory in Super Bowl 47 and is named as that game's MVP.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: So things worked out pretty well for Jim Flacco, I would say, after that.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Um But let's let's imagine that instead of getting sacked on second down, Flacco escapes the pressure and finds Greg Lee, the wide receiver, for a first down.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Greg Lee made a catch.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Impressive.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Impressive.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Greg Lee had a good season that year.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: That was the that was before he had the bad season.
21:01
SPEAKER_03: And then Well, no, then he decided he wanted to go pro and just one of the most curious decisions, like you're the most mediocre college player.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Whoever's telling you this is giving you bad advice.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was unfortunate.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: We we'll cover that at a different time.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Like people that made really bad decisions.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: He got hoodwinked by an agent.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: It was sad.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, in this case, Greg Lee catches the pass for a first down.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: So Flacco's still on the field, and he marches the team down the field, scores a touchdown, gets the ball back, scores another touchdown to complete the comeback against Nebraska.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: And so now, in this timeline, Walt Harris is left with no choice but to continue to start Flacco.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: And Flacco continues to stack wins, leads Pitt to a big East title and a victory this time over Urban Meyer in Utah in the Fiesta Bowl.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Joe Flacco beats Alex Smith, huh?
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Harris is retained as head coach.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: In the original timeline, remember Harris did not last after the season, but because of all the success with Flacco.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: He's retained as head coach, and together Harris and Flacco, along with um other stars like Darrell Rivas and Shady McCoy, build Pitt into a powerhouse leading to an undefeated season in 2007.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So Flacco's really now, instead of being at the University of Delaware and being like a potentially a good pro quarterback, Flacco's playing Division I football for a team that's uh really on the rise.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: And instead of being drafted number 18 by the Ravens in the 2008 draft, Flacco is drafted number three overall by the Atlanta Falcons, who had instead that year in the original timeline had used that pick to draft Matt Ryan.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Falcons, with Joe Flacco as quarterback, blow out the Patriots in Super Bowl 51 and do not blow the lead.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: Flacco's named MVP, and after that game, Tom Brady's so heartbroken that he retires.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
22:50
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: I like I like I like that Tom Brady's retiring.
22:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh I had to throw that in there for all the Brady haters.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: If Flacco just completes that pass on second down, Tom Brady's not playing anymore.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: I think it's a logical conclusion.
23:05
SPEAKER_03: Makes sense.
23:05
SPEAKER_03: Boy, there's quite the ripple effect on that one.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
23:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm not sure that like Walt Harris can can recruit LaShawn McCoy because that was a one-stat recruit.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: But hey, you never know.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh he just he was a local kid, though.
23:23
SPEAKER_03: And his dad, Bob, co doesn't coach you know, West Allegheny at all.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's why that's why Flacco had to like had to win the actually win the game against Nebraska.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: It wouldn't have mattered.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't think it would have mattered.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it would have I I think the pressure would have been high enough.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Because Palco had not Palco had only started two games at that point in his career.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: So I mean if Flacco's the hot hand, I think I think it might have happened.
23:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, be that as it may, and Tom Brady is now retired with only what, three or four Super Bowls.
23:53
SPEAKER_03: You're right.
23:54
SPEAKER_03: So uh we're gonna go with uh this is another kind of sad one.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Immaculate Reception is ruled illegal touching.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: Um in the original timeline, um, we're in the Immaculate Reception, um, the ball is you know, fourth and ten, the ball bounces off.
24:09
SPEAKER_03: Either Frenchie Foucault or Jack Tatum, depending on who you talk to, the ball is caught out of the air by Franco riding his white horse.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: And that's my best Jack Fleming in impersonation.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: Um Jack Fleming would describe it.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: Uh this kind of starts the Steelers dynasty of the 1970s.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: They did lose to the undefeated uh Miami Dolphins that year, so but uh hopefully one of these years some team will put a nice little asterisk on there to say, hey, we also went undefeated.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: But um uh this starts the Steelers dynasty of 1970s and uh run of four Super Bowls in six years.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: It really transforms the team from perennial loser into model NFL franchise, and we've kind of covered that in Steelers Dark Ages and such stuff.
24:54
SPEAKER_03: So Fred Fred Swerjan um rules that Frenchie Foucault touched the ball, making the play illegal.
25:02
SPEAKER_03: This is the alternate time.
25:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so now now we're in the alternate universe land.
25:06
SPEAKER_03: So like, you know, he goes to the telephone calls and says, Yes, we have the National Guard waiting outside, you're fine.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: He's like, okay, cool.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: So he's like, yeah, yep, if he touched it, they can't do that.
25:18
SPEAKER_03: It's not a touchdown.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: And that was the role at the time.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: If the offensive player touched it, you couldn't have two touch it in concession, I guess, or conceptively.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there you go.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: That's the way it's so he's so you're saying he's rolling it in incomplete.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: Or illegal, whatever the d penalty would have been.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: Plays over, Steelers lose, the Raiders celebrate, uh the Raiders lose in the AFC Championship to the 72 Dolphins anyway.
25:43
SPEAKER_03: Um John Madden and Phil Vilipiano brag about this game until this day.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: Uh riots ensue in 3 River Stadium, but it's quickly subdued as the game was blacked out locally and nobody else knew the game was going on.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: So So whenever you meet somebody that says they are there to the game, they were like part of the million people that said they were there that really aren't.
26:05
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's it's SOS, like which the polite way of saying is same old Steelers, but really, you know, people would say same old poop with uh and the Steelers never really recover.
26:18
SPEAKER_03: It's like the Steelers have always been, it's like even when they get a good team, it seems like a break, an unfortunate break goes against them.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh this really sets the team back.
26:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh those super steelers of the 1970s, they don't really win a Super Bowl game.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: They kind of like the San Diego Chargers or one of those teams, just an also ran.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, Arts Aruni Sr.
26:38
SPEAKER_03: the chief never gets his Super Bowl win.
26:40
SPEAKER_03: Neither does Chuck Null.
26:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh Rocky Blyer has like, you know, reminiscing games about about this like years later with him and Villa Piano and Madden, where Rocky Blyer plays the role of Villa Piano, like whining and crying about, oh, you know, Frenchie really touched it, you know.
26:57
SPEAKER_03: So so the rules are totally reversed.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Which is just hilarious to think, like watch Rocky Blyer like complain about that.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: But the NFL uh in general is missing a great play in its history.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: And it takes uh the NFL doesn't really reach its like like it really NFL really took off in the 70s because of that Steelers Dallas rivalry.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: So they really don't don't have an iconic play until the Dwight Clark catch in the 81 championship game.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's kind of in that in and the you know, that's San Francisco beating Dallas, so that's a big rivalry game, too.
27:34
SPEAKER_03: So uh the Steelers finally win their first Super Bowl in 2005 in Super Bowl forty.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: You know, Bill Cowler finally brings the first championship home after what would that be, 1933 to na uh 2005.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: Yepes.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: That's 70s.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you were entering Arizona Cardinal territory here.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: The Stewart's uh another like fallout from this is the Stewart's have like ten less Hall of Fame inductees, yeah.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Like they don't have their own wing of the Hall of Fame, you know.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: Like maybe like I don't know, may I'm sure somebody still would have made it from like I mean Joe Green probably still makes it or something like that, but definitely not like the tertiary players like Ham or Lambert or you know, definitely not the receivers.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Stalworth.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: Stalworth was pretty good.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of a downer.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: But at least the Steelers got their one Super Bowl in Super Bowl 40.
28:30
SPEAKER_03: So you're going with that like that play literally launched the dynasty?
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, even though really even though I know they lost, I mean I guess I went kind of really dark on that.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, who knows?
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Maybe they lose that that game and they still recover and they win like one or two Super Bowls.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: I think I think like you said though, like there's a lot to be said about the mentality and the culture.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Like like you said, it was literally forty years of everything going against them, and like that that kind of turned all the mentality around.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh thing good things can happen.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_03: So And it took it took Noel 369 to 72 to build that team.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: That's how bad they were.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: It took him three I mean, I realize free agency isn't what it wasn't what it was back then.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: There was none.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: So you really had the it took them three draft class to even build to making the playoffs.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, may maybe they still win a Super Bowl.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean Yeah, but that's that's interesting though, because again, it it it you know, it's like I just think it's funny the role reversal too.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: Like now Rocky Blair's like complaining, you know, and NFL films, yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: But no, and the NFL at Hall too would have been hurt too, because like they wouldn't have had those Steelers Cowboys Super Bowls in the 70s.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: And it really would have been until the San Francisco teams, you know, well maybe Dall I didn't put that in there.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Dallas wins another Super Bowl.
29:49
SPEAKER_03: Without the Steelers in there, maybe Dallas now is four Super Bowls.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wow.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: So that would have had a lot of repercussions.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank goodness it was called the way it was.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: I like the riot being subdued easily.
30:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I like that too.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: I thought you were going to go somewhere different with them, like the stadium burned out or something.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, they started a small fire, but there was only you know 30,000 people there, so um okay.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: So I'm going with for my next one, I'm going with Joe Montana never gets hurt in the 1990 NFC Championship game.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: And you may be saying, well, Tim, what does that have to do with Pittsburgh sports?
30:25
SPEAKER_02: And I will get there.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Just give me a second.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: So 1990, the San Francisco 49ers just won the last two Super Bowls, and they're dominant.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't know, Steve, if you remember.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, if I I think it's hard if you weren't around then to remember like how good the 49ers were.
30:41
SPEAKER_03: I remember the 55 to like what was that, seven or yeah, against Denver the year before.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, and in 1990, Montana was the league MVP that year.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: So like they were they were still rolling.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Like they were gonna win a third straight.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: And they had Steve Young as their backup.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: They did, and he'll factor into this one.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, they're gonna win another Super Bowl.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just a given almost at this point.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh Montana's in his absolute primate.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, he's the league MVP that year.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, they find themselves in a in a defensive slug fest in the NFC Championship game at home against the New York Giants.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: And Leonard Marshall, in the second half of that game, he um hits Montana from behind and badly, badly injures him.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Montana is hit so hard he has he suffers a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs, and a broken hand.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: Montana misses all of the the subsequent 1991 season and most of the 1992 season and never again starts another game for the 49ers.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: Didn't he do something to his arm too?
31:42
SPEAKER_03: Because I remember his arm wasn't quite right after that either.
31:45
SPEAKER_03: Because like he was like throwing the ball when that guy hit him.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: He was.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: So it was like a really bad time to get hit.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: It was.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: And it was from behind.
31:52
SPEAKER_03: He never saw it coming.
31:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think he did something to his elbow or something.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: I I I mean, it it it it he never play he didn't play again.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: And he never was quite the same again.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: Like he was still had like a couple decent years in Kansas City in that after that.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: But but I mean he again, he went from being the league MVP, the best player in football.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: To just kind of mediocre.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, to not playing for two years.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, jeez.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Like that was that was it's a very significant moment in NFL history.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: Um it opens the door.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: That play, again, we're still in the original timeline, that play has ripple effects because it does open the door for Dallas to take over as the dominant NFL team, and it opens the door for, as you mentioned, Steve, for Steve Young to commence his Hall of Fame career.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: He was backing up Montana at the time.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Now he is the starter, and he it's his team after this.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Giants go on to win that game, they upset the 49ers.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: And then they they go on to upset the Bills in the Super Bowl, the Buffalo Bills.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: And the 49ers and Bills were like you could argue that those n 1990, those two offenses were maybe two of the top ten offenses in league history.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: And the guy that architected the the those victories was the defensive coordinator of the Giants, Bill Belichick.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh Belichick's game plan from Super Bowl 25 that year is actually in the Pro Football Hall of Fame on display.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: Because that's how shocking it was that he was able to dismantle those two offenses.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: Um a personal note, I remember you always still complained about the lottery after this because that was when they would put the uh game on the little box, like while they drew the wall.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: And that was the game-winning field goal, and the Giants you had to watch it off the fire.
33:32
SPEAKER_02: I had to watch it in the middle corner of the screen because they're Pennsylvania.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: It was like Roger Craig fumbled and then Matt Barr lined up for the field goal, and they were like, here we go for the for the right to the screen.
33:41
SPEAKER_03: And the winning numbers today are five.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: I had forgotten about that.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for reminding me.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Um I just remember you always complaining about it.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the worst timing.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Um so impressed by this run, the Cleveland Browns hire Belichick as their head coach.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: And Belichick actually puts together a really talented staff in Cleveland.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh guys like Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Nick Saban, Kirk Forens.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh he actually has a really good staff.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: They make it to the playoffs in 94, but then everything kind of falls apart when Modell moves the team in 95.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh Belichick, of course, later goes on to become the head coach of the New England Patriots and wins six Super Bowls.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: So that's the original timeline.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: Let's go with the timeline where Montana just kind of ducks out of the way and avoids the hit.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: So we have like that like that little sound effect they make when things change.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: The little ripple in the in the uh space-time continuum.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: Or the one, yeah, it was like a little chime in like uh Back to the Future.
34:39
SPEAKER_03: Like would I be looking at like a paper, like 49ers win.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: So Montana Montana avoids the hit.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: The 49ers win the NFC Championship game, and they win their third straight Super Bowl.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Now, Cleveland, who in the original timeline was concerned about hiring Belichick.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: So, so people don't remember this.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: When Cleveland did hire Belichick, he was only in his 30s, he had never been an NFL head coach.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: And nowadays you see that a lot, right?
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Like Sean McVay and Sean McDermott.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: And you like you see, like, let's hire the young smart coach.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: Back then, that was like not a thing at all.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: You never hired young coaches.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: And Cleveland took a lot of criticism, Rodell took a lot of criticism when he made that hire, because what are you doing hiring that guy, even after Belichick had won those two big games.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: So without with Belichick losing in the championship game, Cleveland decides to go with one of their our other finalists.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: They they go with Rams defensive coordinator Fritz Schirmer, who is much older and more experienced.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: And Belichick stays on Parcel's staff for the 91 season in New York.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, now here's where it gets into Pittsburgh territory.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Because after the 91 season, Chuck Knowle retires from the Steelers.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And what were the Steelers looking for to replace Chuck Knowle?
35:55
SPEAKER_02: They had kind of two things they wanted to hit.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: One, they wanted a defensive coach, and two, they wanted a young coach because Steelers don't turn to a coach because they want guys to be there for years and years.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, guess who fits that profile in 1991?
36:09
SPEAKER_02: It's Giants defensive coordinator Bill Belichick.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: So the Steelers hire Bill Belichick to be their head coach in 1992.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: Now Belichick, unsatisfied with having uh Bubby Brister and Neil O'Donnell as his quarterbacks, he goes out and engineers a trade with San Francisco for disgruntled backup Steve Young.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Tom Donahoe's going to go along with this.
36:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, he's going to go along with it.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: He's going along with it.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: And so you're counting on Tom Donahoe going along with this and Dan Rooney signing off on the Trevor Burrus.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Well well it wouldn't have had to be it wouldn't have had to be that big of a trade because Steve Young's a backup.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Remember, Montana.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Montana never gets hurt.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: So I'm in.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: So Steve Young's not doesn't want to be there anymore.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: He's a backup.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: You probably maybe like a second or third round pick.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't have to give up the role for him because he hasn't done anything.
37:01
SPEAKER_03: Well, Dan you gotta remember Dan's philosophy was you never mortgage the future for a trade because what's his name?
37:09
SPEAKER_03: Bert Bell or uh or not Bert, what uh one of the goofy goofball coaches before Noel used to do that every year.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: That's that's what I'm saying.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: It would have had to be a reasonable trade, but I think it would have been because Steve Young was a failed starter in Tampa Bay, and he's a backup in San Francisco.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: So you remember, like the the Packers got Brett Farbe, I think, for a second or third round pick because he was a backup in Atlanta.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: He hadn't done anything yet either.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: So I think you get him for not that much.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: So now Belichick has Steve Young as his starting quarterback for the Steelers.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: With Young in a great defense and unencumbered by franchise instability that he had in Cleveland, Belichick wins three Super Bowls in the 1990s.
37:47
SPEAKER_02: And when Young retires after the 1999 season, which also happened in the original timeline, Belichick drafts Michigan quarterback Tom Brady, and there's room for Tom Brady now?
37:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers, under Tom Brady, and Bill Belichick wins six more Super Bowls.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: So I got to deal with Josh McDaniel and Bill Belichick, hey, stealing signals on the sidelines.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, and yep.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers are accused as teeters, and everybody in Pittsburgh defends them.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: What a role reversal.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: And in 2020, Belichick enters his fourth decade as Steelers head coach with nine championships under his belt.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: All because Kill Montana moved out of the way.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if the Steelers would hire a guy like Belichick because like he's he's like such a like he would sell his own mother for a win.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: Like I don't and I don't mean that he actually would, but I mean he's just he'll do anything to win.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: He'll actually stretch the rule book, and that doesn't seem like the Steelers don't seem to like like You're going with what we know about Belichick now.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: In 1991, he's a defensive coordinator who's young, and he d like you don't you don't I don't know that you know all that about him at this point.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: Well and and he would have been a hot.
39:03
SPEAKER_03: Because Jimmy Johnson was kind of the same way.
39:05
SPEAKER_03: Like Jimmy Johnson would do any, you know, anything.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: But Jimmy Johnson had been the coach at Miami and James.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but had more success.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, and but you knew that about him.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: Like he was a college coach and you knew that his reputation.
39:16
SPEAKER_03: Although although another thing that would have I think would have worked for Belichick probably would have liked it here, is like, did you hear that interview with Tomlin about like his interview with like Dan Rooney?
39:27
SPEAKER_03: Like Dan came like in a like a two-door Buick and picked up Tomlin and his wife and Rooney and his wife.
39:34
SPEAKER_03: And like they're all sitting in this like litter like just normal car, you know, and they went out to eat and like they sat in the front seat and talked, and I guess they're why So like but I could see Bill Belichick's that kind of guy, though, that he would like that.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: I think Belichick would like that kind of.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Remember, the the the the guy that did hire Belichick was Modell.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: Modell was an old school owner, like the Roonies.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: He was not like Modell, besides the move out of Cleveland, Modell was really like kind of a good owner.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: Like it they always they had a ton more success under Modell than they ever did.
40:07
SPEAKER_03: They just had a lot of bad breaks in the eighties.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, just one of those breaks goes the other way, and the Browns have at least one Super Bowl win.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, it Modell wasn't Jerry Jones, so I think if Modell hired Belichick, I think Rooney would have too.
40:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: I could see like both sides.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Like I could see like a vote for him, a vote against him, and I'm not like I only know what I know, what I read by Dan Rooney.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: And I don't, you know, it's it's hard for me.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: Like normally sometimes you like you can peg, oh yeah, they're gonna like this guy, but like I don't know.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: I think the other thing I thought about throwing in there, just because the one thing that I think messes up my scenario here is that Cower was still there, and Cower was a local guy.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: So I almost threw in there.
40:51
SPEAKER_03: Well they interviewed Wansett.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: Wannstatt was the local guy that was the Wansted told that story just recently, too, about like America's team and like the head rooney like kind of shot him down.
41:02
SPEAKER_03: The chief was like, no, we're the Pittsburgh Steelers.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: And so and so I I almost threw in there that Cleveland hired Cower instead of Belichick.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, oh that would have been interesting.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: Because he had played for Cleveland, he had coached for Cleveland.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, now that would be I could see that happening too.
41:18
SPEAKER_03: And then that takes Clech.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Because Marty, because he liked Marty Schottenheimer so much in the eighties.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: And then that takes Cower off the board in ninety-two.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: And then that makes it, I think, easier than to hire Belichick because he's the next up and coming.
41:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's an interesting one.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: Um, shifting gears to the college, and you know, you know me, I always got to put a pit one in here.
41:39
SPEAKER_03: And uh this one is probably a little overly optimistic, but you know, pit football never gets any optimism or love.
41:47
SPEAKER_03: So here you go.
41:48
SPEAKER_03: Here's your here's your love letter to pit football.
41:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh Johnny Majors changes Pitt into a national powerhouse.
41:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh the original timeline is Johnny Majors after winning the national championship leaves his pit for his alma mater, Tennessee.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: He had a pretty successful career in Tennessee.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: He never won, I don't know if he ever won the, I don't think he won the SEC or a national championship, but he definitely he was always had like eight or nine wins.
42:14
SPEAKER_03: Um Pitt had some good years until Jackie Sherrill left and they fell apart and they went into mediocrity and things got really worse in the nineties.
42:23
SPEAKER_03: Pitt had to join the Big East late in the eighties and then the ACC because they kind of like it fell that mediocrity to bad.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: So and now the the the real downer of all that is is Pitt doesn't play any of its rivals in football that they played in the 70s and 80s because of not ha taking football seriously back in eighty two.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: Like that that really caused a ripple effect to where now we don't play Penn State, West Virginia, Notre Dame, or Syracuse.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, we still play Syracuse every year, but we don't or West Virginia.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: You know we don't play those teams every year because we didn't take our football team seriously and couldn't form a conference, but we'll get into that later.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, cue the paper changing or whatever noise you want to make.
43:07
SPEAKER_03: We need a sound effect for this, yeah.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: Uh Johnny Majors decides that like he loves Tennessee and everything, but he really likes Pitt, so he's gonna stay at Pitt.
43:17
SPEAKER_03: Uh Pitt continues uh winning at a high level, and uh because the university is making so much money off of football and the public absolutely loves Johnny Majors, there's nothing Wesley Potsvart can do.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: So they they hire a more friendly chancellor and athletic director to support Johnny Majors.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: They decide, okay, well, we got this guy, everybody likes him, he seems like a decent person.
43:41
SPEAKER_03: Let's let's take our football seriously.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: In the early 80s, um, Pitt joins a conference with Penn State like Joe Paterno wanted to.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, so now Joe Paterno and Johnny Majors probably who probably would work well together more than Jackie Sherrow, because Jackie Sherro, I think, annoys.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Joe Paterno more than Johnny Majors did.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: So now, like those two definitely could have formed a conference, and there's no way you couldn't tell me they couldn't have talked Syracuse, Boston College, Maryland, and Rutgers, and probably West Virginia, into joining some sort of conference with them.
44:16
SPEAKER_03: So that's a big change.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: So now we have a nice little conference.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe it's all football focused, but they're Maryland's a good basketball school.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: So Pitt wins another national championship under Majors in the 80s because they're continuing to recruit and do well.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: Majors, instead of coming back to Pitt at 92, he has some heart problems.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: And he decides, you know, after his health is uh waning, he he retires and he's given like an honorary position as athletic director.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh Pitt then, you know, with Majors as athletic director and helping making a hire, the next hire, they decide to hire Mike Ditka, who just got got uh canned by the uh Chicago Bears.
44:56
SPEAKER_03: So now they got this great coach, Mike Ditka, who's obviously going to be able to recruit, has just can, you know, whenever you need that recruit to come to Pitt, you know, they can flash that you know Super Bowl ring, which I don't think Joe Paterno doesn't have any Super Bowl rings, does he?
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Huh.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: It's interesting.
45:11
SPEAKER_03: But uh anyway, he uh can't be a pit one without digging it, I guess.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: Your rivals are.
45:17
SPEAKER_03: Um Mike Dicke continues the winning tradition into the nineties.
45:22
SPEAKER_03: So the nineties are totally different.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: Pitt is now a much better at you know powerhouse uh with majors and paturnos allied, the two biggest football powers now Pitt's a strong football power, Penn State's a big football power, Northeast football isn't irrelevant like it's become.
45:40
SPEAKER_03: And it and you know, and we still have all the population centers, all the TVs, you know, and everything that's focused here.
45:47
SPEAKER_03: It has a lot of clout and power.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: So this new conference goes and goes, hey Miami, instead of joining like a basketball conference, why don't you join ours?
45:55
SPEAKER_03: So they get Virginia Tech, I guess WVU, I have them coming in at this point in the nineties.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: They go and get Florida State and you know, Florida State the heck with the ACC and said, you know what, yeah, I think Clemson doesn't like the ACC either.
46:07
SPEAKER_03: So they're gonna they they like football better than basketball.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: And because they're just like, you know, they're able to talk Notre Dame into joining in maybe some sort of arrangement that Notre Dame always had with the old Big East.
46:20
SPEAKER_03: So maybe they're not a full-fledged member.
46:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh the ACC folds.
46:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh North North Carolina do just decide to play basketball like they should.
46:29
SPEAKER_03: And uh Pitts still plays its rivalry and has a probably like because they've never really had like a really bad losing season, they retain their fan base a lot better than they have.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: So and they're kind of like we're the penguins.
46:41
SPEAKER_03: I say they're kind of where the penguins are instead of where they are.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: But that that one's probably over optimistic.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: And just my unveiled hate for the ACC is obviously on display there.
46:52
SPEAKER_03: But I don't know if all that would have come true, but I definitely think if they would have had majors and Paterno at their colleges with enough clout and a friendly athletic director, they definitely could have pulled off, at least getting West Virginia and probably Miami and maybe Virginia Tech.
47:11
SPEAKER_03: You know, they they could have got those schools to join them in a conference.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Even even if the only even if the only end result of that would be playing in a conference with all of our traditions, and like Notre Dame definitely would have joined that conference over the ACC.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:27
SPEAKER_03: I mean, not maybe not as a full, but you know, still like playing four to six games and then they could still play their USCs, their you know, Michigans, their you know, because the Michigan rivalry, Notre Dame lost its Michigan rivalry, and that was a pretty you know, so like I said, it's just you know, the the rise of the uh SEC is totally not even the the the rise of like the SEC and the ACC has totally killed like so many it's it's ruined college football for a lot of schools that aren't named you know, Alabama or Tennessee or Arkansas.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: th that's just it it's bad for the fans.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Great for the university, I guess.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I I d never liked Gil Peterno and I don't like Penn State, but I will say that his idea to start a conference in the early 80s.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: He was right about that.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: He was ahead of his ahead of his timeline.
48:22
SPEAKER_03: He saw he saw the future.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: And it's just Pitt didn't, and then Pitt joins like a basketball conference.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: And that would just that screwed everything up.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: Well I like that one, Steve.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: I like the I like the I like the pitch.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: Well, we did so many negative ones, we had to do an overly optimistic.
48:39
SPEAKER_03: Like we did an overly negative like the Steelers not winning any Super Bowl in the 70s, probably overly negative.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: So we'll do an overly optimistic.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: We'll go the other way.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Mike Dicka and uh Bill Belichick winning championships in Pittsburgh.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
48:52
SPEAKER_02: What a difference.
48:53
SPEAKER_03: What a different.
48:53
SPEAKER_03: And then could you imagine then they would still build that shared facility, having Mike Ditka and Bill Belichick in the same building at the same time?
49:00
SPEAKER_03: Goodness gracious, two opposite personalities.
49:04
SPEAKER_03: Maybe still would have hired Rex Ryan back, although I don't think they're on speaking diners by that point.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
49:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm gonna stick with football and go back to the Steelers here.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh this one's called Clark Hagins is more careful with his dumbbells.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: So here's what happened in the original timeline.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: So in the summer of 2004, going again back to the year 2004, uh Clark Hagins has um almost like there's a junction of the universe, a nexus of the or it could all just be a big coincidence.
49:40
SPEAKER_03: Nice, nice.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: So Clark Higgins is a linebacker for the Steelers, and and in the summer of 2004, uh life's pretty good for Clark Hagins.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: He has been designated as the new starting outside linebacker.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh the team actually has a lot of faith in Hagins, so much so that they've signed him to a new four-year contract that March.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: And they had released Jason Gildon, who at the time was the team's all-time sack leader.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: So they've anointed Clark Hagens the starter, basically.
50:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh so Hagins is working out in Georgia, and he's working out with an 85-pound dumbbell.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: And Steve, if you if you lift heavy dumbbells like I do all the time.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: Um they're pumping iron.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: Pumping iron.
50:24
SPEAKER_03: Right.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: And if you ever put when you put those things back into like the rack, because they're so heavy, like they they have a tendency, they can bounce.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to set them down very gently, but it's hard to set them down gently because your arms sore from lifting them.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: So Hagens is trying to put this 85-pound dumbbell back in the holster, and it kind of bounces up and it catches two of his fingers in between the dumbbell and the end of it, smashes his fingers.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh really painful injury, but not a really serious one.
50:55
SPEAKER_02: Higgins is is going to miss time uh in training camp because he's got broken fingers, but he's actually fine.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Um he he he's back in uniform before the sea regular season even starts.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: So there's like really in the original timeline, there was very little impact to the 2004 season.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: In fact, I went back and looked at like the news articles.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: The only like scuttlebutt at the time was that maybe the injury would open the door for uh Alonzo Jackson, who was the 2003 second-round pick to steal the job away from Hagens.
51:25
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that never happens because as Steve said, Alonzo Jackson was not good at football.
51:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean he might be a fine person, I'm sure he's an upstanding individual.
51:33
SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: Nothing against his personal character, but he just wasn't good at playing the game of football, even though he was a second-round draft pick.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: So um, again, that it's it's a footnote, but the impact that it does have is very significant because the Steelers need bodies in training camp at the linebacker position while Hagins recovers, and they bring in a guy named James Harrison.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: Harrison had been like on and off their practice squad for the previous two years, and he had just been cut earlier that summer by the Baltimore Ravens.
52:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh Harrison uses his time wisely.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: He actually surprises the coaches, and he plays well enough to make the team in 2004.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: He first catches the attention of fans uh after playing well uh in a game in Cleveland.
52:18
SPEAKER_03: Was that the game whereter got kicked out before the game?
52:20
SPEAKER_02: That was the game where Joey Porter got kicked out before the game.
52:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he like pulled off his shirt and like because he always would when you talk trash, he would like show his abs because that's like meant to like look how in shape I am.
52:32
SPEAKER_03: You should feel ashamed of yourself.
52:33
SPEAKER_02: He and the Cleveland running back, I think his name was William Green, if I'm not sure.
52:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that yeah, they got in a fight before the club.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: They got into a fight before the game, and they both get ejected before the kickoff, and Harrison has to start in this game in Cleveland, and he actually plays really well.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh and that's the first time people are like, oh, this James Harrison guy's actually pretty good.
52:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh the next year, he in Cle again in Cleveland, he cut he again catches the attention of fans when he body slams an unruly Browns fan who has run onto the field.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: That guy got banned for life from from the previous game.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: Or at least a year, I think.
53:06
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
53:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he didn't realize they need, you know, he's a Browns fan.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, he was probably a miserable one.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: Can't really fault him.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh so that that's kind of like James Harrison's first two, like, you know, hey, who's this guy?
53:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, eventually uh Harrison becomes a starter in 2007, not replacing Higgins, but replacing actually Gilly Porter, who um the Steelers let go of to because they have this guy Harrison, who they think can take over.
53:33
SPEAKER_02: In 2008, Harrison's the NFL's defensive player of the year, and more importantly, makes arguably the greatest play in Super Bowl history, intercepting Kurt Warner at the goal line and running it back 100 yards.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: And when he does retire from Pro Football in 2017, Harrison, uh Harrison, not Jason Gilden anymore, is now the franchise's all-time sack leader and one of its greatest ever defensive players.
53:57
SPEAKER_02: Let's go into an alternate timeline here, where Higgins is more careful with his dumbbells.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: Hagins carefully sets down the 85-pound dumbbell very gently.
54:06
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't bounce up, his fingers are fine.
54:09
SPEAKER_02: Steelers don't need any additional linebackers.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: Harrison starts working towards his trucker's license.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: He's getting a CDO, huh?
54:16
SPEAKER_02: That's that's actually what he was doing to do.
54:18
SPEAKER_02: That was his plans.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh until the Steelers called him.
54:22
SPEAKER_02: So he actually does go into that, but mid-season, he gets a call from the Ravens, the other team he had been on the practice squad for.
54:30
SPEAKER_02: And in the original timeline, the Ravens actually did have some injuries at the linebacker spot that year.
54:35
SPEAKER_02: So the Ravens, the Ravens decide to sign him midseason to replace some injured guys.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: And just like he did in Pittsburgh in the original timeline, Harrison plays well enough to be kept on the roster.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: The Ravens coaches are impressed.
54:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh so now Harrison's on the Ravens, not the Steelers.
54:51
SPEAKER_02: Without Harrison there to stop the drunk Browns fan in 2005, disaster strikes for the Steelers, as the fan stumbles into the back of Ben Rothesberger's knee, knocking him out for the season.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: Without Ben there to tackle Nick Harper, as we talked about earlier, the Steelers lose to the Colts and do not win the Super Bowl.
55:07
SPEAKER_02: and the R.
55:08
SPEAKER_03: So it was Ben's standing on the sideline because wasn't the defense was out there when the Yeah.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: So Ben's just like randomly standing on the sideline and this idiot like falls into him.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because Could you imagine like how mad everybody would have been being that could have happened because Harrison body slammed the guy, the security guards couldn't catch him.
55:26
SPEAKER_03: But James Harrison's a Super Bowl hero, huh?
55:29
SPEAKER_02: Harrison bodyslam, huh?
55:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: So now the Steelers don't.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: And Rothelsberger's a Super Bowl hero.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:35
SPEAKER_02: So now the Stewarters don't win the Super Bowl.
55:38
SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, uh uh Adalius Thomas leaves the Ravens after the 2006 season in free agency, which had actually happened in the original timeline.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: And so now Harrison's there to take his place, just like when Porter was gone after 2006.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: Thomas is gone after 2006, and now he's the starter in Baltimore.
55:55
SPEAKER_02: And with Harrison on the Ravens instead of the Steelers for the 2008 championship game, it's Baltimore who advances to Super Bowl 43, where Harrison picks off Kurt Warner and the greatest play in Baltimore Ravens' history, all because Clark Higgins took his time placing the dumbbell back on the rack.
56:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank goodness he didn't.
56:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:15
SPEAKER_02: Thank goodness Clark Higgins was careless with his weights.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:19
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't imagine that.
56:20
SPEAKER_03: Like some fan like injuring a player.
56:22
SPEAKER_03: That's all that would need to happen.
56:25
SPEAKER_03: Oh why.
56:26
SPEAKER_03: Um going back to uh where are we going back to pit football here.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay, Morgantown.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: This one's talked about Morgantown gets the laugh last.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: Gets the last laugh.
56:35
SPEAKER_03: So all you WVU fans, you get you get to have one here.
56:39
SPEAKER_03: Um Pitt loses the WVU in 2007.
56:42
SPEAKER_03: It's the infamous original tie line.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: Pitt beats WVU 13-9.
56:46
SPEAKER_03: Rich Rod leaves for Michigan.
56:48
SPEAKER_03: Les Miles stays at LSU, LSU wins national championship.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: Tim Tebow wins his Heisman, gets to do commercials.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh Win Saves Days once that job.
56:59
SPEAKER_03: He has three very successful seasons by pit football standards, at least.
57:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh the alternate tie timeline.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: Uh WVU pool hangs on to win.
57:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe it's not impressive, but whatever.
57:12
SPEAKER_03: They somehow win.
57:13
SPEAKER_03: Uh Rich Rod decides he's gonna stay at WVU because Lord knows it's almost heaven.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: Uh Les Miles decides to go to Michigan.
57:23
SPEAKER_03: Um WVU beats Ohio State for the national championship.
57:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
57:29
SPEAKER_03: That's probably questionable.
57:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if the Pitt defense could figure out their offense, I mean, why couldn't Ohio State?
57:35
SPEAKER_03: I think it was with Trestle still, too, right?
57:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: So um WVU's national championship win legitimizes them, and they are invited into the ACC with Syracuse instead of Pitt.
57:47
SPEAKER_03: So now Pitt W because of that.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: So that really hurts.
57:50
SPEAKER_03: So Pitt's on the outside, even though AD Steve Pearson has signed once at the contractor stage extension before the WVU game.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: Peterson, as he is want to do, changes his mind and lets one stack go after three unsuccessful seasons.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: Pitt hires some mediocre coach and ends up the same situation they always are in.
58:10
SPEAKER_03: Um the Big East football and no interest.
58:13
SPEAKER_03: They can't get in the Big 12.
58:15
SPEAKER_03: They won't they aren't going to play like in Lubbock every other year.
58:18
SPEAKER_03: So knowing Pitt, that would definitely be a consideration because Lord they they might put up with Austin because that's liberal enough for them.
58:25
SPEAKER_03: But Lord knows Lubbock is too much guns and barbecue in Texas for Pitt.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: So they're bad enough they had to go to Morgantown.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: They're not going clear across the country.
58:34
SPEAKER_03: And they're not definitely not going to still water Oklahoma, except for that one time when they had to.
58:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean so they're definitely not going to Big Twelve.
58:43
SPEAKER_03: Penn State definitely doesn't want them in the um Big Ten because that would be two Pennsylvania teams, and probably like the Big Ten really doesn't need a second Pennsylvania team either.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: So they have they're stuck in a non-Powerfight conference like the what is it, the American Conference with which is basically the old conference USA with all the USFs and all the Cincinnati and Connecticut.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:09
SPEAKER_03: Or worse, they could they could go to the Mac conference.
59:11
SPEAKER_03: They could be a Mac it could be Maction Thursday with Pitt Football.
59:14
SPEAKER_03: Woohoo! And it wouldn't be as bad when they lose to the Mac team.
59:18
SPEAKER_03: Well it's a conference game, Steve.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: You gotta understand, you know.
59:21
SPEAKER_03: When they lose to Toledo every year, or Western Kentucky, or no, it was a Western Michigan, I think, isn't that?
59:28
SPEAKER_03: Or one of the one of the directional Michigan schools in there.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: So things turned out really bad for for Pitt there, not winning that game.
59:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when we did the episode on the 13-9 game, Steve, you talked about the massive ripple effect it had.
59:44
SPEAKER_03: It really did.
59:45
SPEAKER_03: That is like that game really does have a big ripple effect.
59:48
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what Les Miles does in Michigan, but Richer, I mean West Virginia.
59:54
SPEAKER_03: Although they always like they always like to spin it.
59:56
SPEAKER_03: Well, West Virginia didn't have the academics to get in the ACC.
59:59
SPEAKER_03: I think if West Virginia has just a little bit more success, the ACC doesn't care that much.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: I think more of the consideration was TVs and houses.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_03: And Pitt brings slightly more TVs than West Virginia does because it's just you of Pittsburgh and not Morgantown.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_03: It's just more of a fan base.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: But if they would have been that national retard, they might have been the sexier pitch.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_03: That might have been the tiebreaker, yeah.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_03: So and Yeah.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: And that's that's another reason why the Big Ten won't take Pitt because like they already get the Pittsburgh market with Penn State.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, you're right.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_02: That could have been dire.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_03: And like I said, Pitt is not going to the Big Twelve.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_03: Like West Virginia is desperate enough.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_03: They'll play in, you know, all these little podung nothing against the Big Twelve, but they'll go to Norman, Oklahoma.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_03: They'll go to Austin, Texas, they'll go to Lubbock, they'll go to well, I guess Dallas isn't so bad.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, it it it doesn't make sense for them geographically, but they had no choice.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: And Pitt would have been in the same boat.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: And you're right, they would have if the Big Twelve would have even wanted them.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_03: I think they I think they probably do end up in a a Mac or Well I can see the Mac because it's geographically makes more sense than the American.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean maybe they could have went to the American, but is you Yukon's in the American, so maybe they go with Yukon.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_03: Basketball really would have stunk.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: I mean, although basketball maybe it doesn't matter.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean it's not as critical as football to be in a big conference.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_02: Well I'm glad they won.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank goodness.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_03: Thank goodness that happened.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: All right, I'm gonna go with a baseball one, and I'm gonna go with the Pirates keep Pat Mahomes.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_02: So in the original timeline, uh in in back in 2003, the Pirates signed a veteran pitcher named Pat Mahomes.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh he he only made made a a handful of appearances that year.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't really play very well on a bad Pirates team, so the Pirates let him go after the season.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, Mahomes is only 33 years old at this time, so he's still, you know, he's not really retirement age, but he never again pitches in the major leagues.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh about 10 years later, his son Patrick Mahomes Jr.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_02: is drafted as a pitcher by the Detroit Tigers, but instead of falling in his father's footsteps, uh Mahomes declines to sign with the Tigers and instead enrolls in Texas Tech to play football.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: Five years later, uh, you know the rest of that story, uh Mahomes leads the Kansas City Chiefs to their first Super Bowl title in 50 years, cementing his status as one of the best players in football today.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: And driving me absolutely nuts because he breaks that like cardinal rule like every like how many times like he's the only quarterback, Mahomes, where like he'll run to the sideline and then throw to the middle of the field.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: Like I've seen Ben do it occasionally, and Ben kind of gets away with it most of the time.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_03: But like tell me 90% of the time you see anybody else do that in the world, what happens?
1:02:46
SPEAKER_03: It's boom, interception, boom, interception.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: Mahomes is I don't know how he gets away with that.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's because he can run still.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_03: Like I wonder if as he gets older and he won't be able to run as much if he's gonna still be able to pull that off.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_03: Because like that's like his signature play right now.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_03: Like that's the play you really can't stop.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_03: When he does that, the only thing you can do, like you'd have to keep him in the pocket or make him step up.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_03: Because like when he gets outside like that, not to go I don't know how you stop that with him.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_03: Especially his Kelsey, too, who's a really good tight end.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_02: I feel like he's approaching Michael Jordan-esque like domination.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's just unstoppable right now.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_03: I I don't know how you stop that play right now.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, here's a way to stop him.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_02: Let's go with an alternate timeline.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_02: So in the alternate timeline, the Pirates decide to bring back Mahomes Sr.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh and he plays well enough to be on the roster for several more seasons.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_02: So he so Mahomes Sr.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_02: sticks with the Pirates.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_02: And with him playing for the Pirates, the family settles in Pittsburgh instead of Texas.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_02: And Pirates pitching coach Ray Searage, who was a very well-known and very good pitching coach, starts working with teenage Patrick Mahomes to help him improve his pitching.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_02: So realizing that he's got a talent for baseball, uh, after working with Ray Searage, Mahomes opts to sign with the Tigers.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: And that guaranteed money, huh?
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_02: Eventually making it to the majors a few years later.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_02: So he never goes to Texas Tech, he never plays football, and Kansas City never wins the Super Bowl.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_03: You don't think like if he's a Pittsburgh guy playing it like he's definitely going to at least play football.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I don't know where let's say they lived in I don't know what's what's a ritzy neighborhood.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: He plays high school.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_03: He plays high school football, but well, I mean, uh so you're saying let's say Pat Mahomes play Pat Mahomes Jr.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_03: plays at like, I don't know, pick your rich suburban neighborhood in the Pine Richland.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_03: Pine Richland, yeah, that's what I was thinking.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_03: And so he plays for Pine Richland, and he's obviously a talented athlete, so he's going to be pretty good.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_03: And he's probably going to take them to a state title, at least the game, if not an outright state title.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: So you're telling me he doesn't at least get a look from Pitt or Penn State?
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: But I think or West Virginia.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I bet he he ends up at one of those three schools.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: So I I never yeah, so I never say he doesn't make it to he doesn't get a scholarship offer.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: But he just because he that guaranteed money and well, and because now because he's he's uh he's worked with a professional again, Ray Search is legendary for turning guys from good to great.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_02: Like he is, like, or mediocre to very good.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_02: And so my argument here is that because Search works with him, he's he feels like he's good enough.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: It's not just guaranteed money.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: Like I think part of his decision was I'm probably a better I probably have a better chance of being good at football than I do at baseball.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: I think that's why in the original timeline he went uh he went to Texas Tech.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, because at that point you have to make a decision, right?
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: And what a swing and a miss by the other Texas schools.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: Texas Tech.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_03: Well, and then they got I don't know who the quarterbacks were at like Baylor and Texas and Houston, but geez.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, so that's that's yeah that's The argument is that he decides now he can play baseball.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: Why put your body through what it takes to play football when you can have guaranteed money playing for the Tigers and if you're confident enough to do it?
1:06:12
SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: That's how you stop at Mahomes.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Go back in time and make the Pirates keep his dad.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_03: Here's another fun one.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna do a pen- I'm gonna do a Penguins one this time.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_03: Um the Pens pull off the three-peat.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: Yay! Now this is probably a little overly optimistic, but I think I we're feeling optimistic again after the some negative pit ones.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: Uh after back-to-back cup wins, the pens have the best regular season ever.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_03: They win the peasant's trophy.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_03: Um this is the original timeline.
1:06:43
SPEAKER_03: They have a 17-game winning streak, which I still remember.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: That was unbelievable.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_03: And they only lost like on like overtime or something.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, or like I remember like it was a really like the other team was like just desperate to beat them.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_03: Like, and then uh second round of the playoffs, the infamous they lose the Islanders on a game seven shot in overtime by David Bollock.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: Future Penguins, uh Darius Cosperitis causes the Penn Star, Lemieux and Jagger, all kinds of difficulty throughout the series.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: The Pens loss and the emergence of the trap defense ends their cup runs and sets the franchise back for years to follow.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: So they don't win another accidentally cup until what 2009, yes.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_03: So in the alternate uh timeline, the pens score three times in the third period and they just hold the lead and they win the series in game seven.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh the wind kind of wakes them up, they're like, hey, we better play better.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: And they get ready for the top series against some team from Montreal called the Canadians.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_03: Now, I remember this team only because like when my kid was younger, they would bring home these books to read to them to help them encourage reading.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_03: So Joel would always pick the uh sports books, and we picked one on the Canadians.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_03: And this was in the this like Joel just thinks the Canadians are like the greatest hockey.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_03: And he's probably right.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_03: If you read about that, that run in '93 was amazing.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_03: Like Patrick Waugh was really, really good.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_03: They played a lot of overtime in one goal games and won them all, mainly because of Patrick Waugh.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_03: Well, in my alternate um series, they go seven games.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_03: It's a tough, tough series.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, the Canadians are really good.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: Waugh's a really good goalie, and even with the Penguins' firepower, it goes seven games.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_03: And in game seven, like it always happens, seems in hockey, like just like you know, who David Volick scoring the unprobable goal.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_03: Rookie Martin Straka scores two improbable goals against Patrick Waugh, and the Pens move on to the LA Kings in the Stanley Cup final.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_03: So it's a dream matchup.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: The NHL loves it because it's gonna be great for TV.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_03: It's Lemieux versus Gretzky.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_03: It's basically the hockey equivalent of Magic versus Bird from the 80s.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: It's East Coast, West Coast, Big City, Little City.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_03: It's just everything that like TV loves to hype.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_03: Um The Pens, Larm Lemieux and Yarger, they actually smoke uh the the King's goalie Kelly Rudy.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_03: Um they they win the series four games to one.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: Gretzky only is able to win.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Pens complete the three-peat.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: It's the first three-peat since the 1980s Islanders, ironically.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, which is still, I think, the last time any team is three-peated, right?
1:09:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as of right now.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_03: Um the Penn dynasty still comes to an end the next year in a rare playoff loss to the Washington Capitals.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: Um between financial concerns, bad owner ownership, and the trap taking over the league, the Penn slide into mediocrity.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: But they still get that that three feet over, you know.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_03: Probably the most optimistic part is them beating the Canadians.
1:09:53
SPEAKER_03: I think they could have beat the Kings in the final, but goaltending is always such a wild card in the NHL playoffs.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_03: And the Canadians, the main reason the Canadians won the cup that year is because they had the best goaltender in hockey, and that was Patrick Waugh.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_03: So I think, like he said though, like if they That would have been such a dream matchup, though, for the NHL.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: Lemieux, Gretzky, oh man.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_02: That's why that that's why there's so many reasons why that David Vaughl goal is or is devastating, but that was one of the big ones because it would have been Lemie versus Gretzky.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_03: And it would have helped hockey.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_03: Like another case, like we were talking about the Immaculate Reception, like where that really would have hurt the NFL overall.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_03: This were that really did hurt the NHL in reality.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: It did, because that would have, like you said, that would have been bird, bird versus magic.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_02: And and that that Canadians, like if they would have played the Canadians, I think because they had, like you said, had had such a tough series against the Islanders, it would kind of would have shook them up and said like they would have to be a very good thing.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_02: It would have prepared them for the defensive minded.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_03: In the p at that time the Penguins had never beaten a uh Canadian team in a hockey playoff until I think they they've only beaten the Senators and I don't think they've ever beaten like an err like the leaves the Maple Leafs or the Canadians.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, still.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_03: Still to this day, as of right now.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_03: So that was fun.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I like I I like that one.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_03: They have another they have another uh Stanley Cup on the six Stanley Cups instead of five.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_03: And I guess the Canadians only have twenty-three instead of twenty-four.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_03: Whoops.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: to be happy with twenty three Stanley Cups.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_03: Ha.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_03: Whatever.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_02: Like eighteen of those when there was like six.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that doesn't even count.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_02: Um my last one is called The Steelers Keep Al Bundy on the Roster.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_02: So um this one, uh Ed O'Neill is is signed as an undraft this is in the original timeline, is signed as an undrafted free agent linebacker by the Steelers in 1969.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh he's with them in training camp, uh, but first year coach Chuck Knowle makes the decision to cut O'Neill.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh he he uh even actually um calls him into his office and says, Hey, I can make a call to the Philadelphia Eagles.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_02: I think like they'd they would have a you know, you'd have a shot to make the team there because they're kind of thin at that position.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_02: But O'Neill says, you know what, I'm just done with football at this point.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to go try out for another team.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_02: And he actually goes into acting and ultimately goes on to star in the TV show Married with Children, playing the iconic Al Bundy character.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_02: That show is the first big hit for the fledgling Fox Network and creates an identification for Fox as kind of like the edgy alternative to traditional bar.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_03: Do you know where Al Al Al Bundy or Ed O'Neill went to college?
1:12:43
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_03: Youngstown State.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_03: Did he really?
1:12:45
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, he's a Youngstown State alum.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_02: So he's almost a local guy.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty Western Pennsylvania.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_03: It's still kind of the same Western Pennsylvania.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_02: Close enough.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_02: Close enough.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_03: Well, and and and remember, too, when that show came on, like I think Well, I think I think Fox, like you said, like edgy entertainment.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: Like back then the family sitcom was like growing pains or what am I trying to think of?
1:13:07
SPEAKER_03: Who's the boss or Cosby show or yeah, it was like the father's always like you might have some jokes in there, but he was always seen as the wise and you know.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: Not the total slouch.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not a slot.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: It was it was definitely cast against type, is I guess they would say.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, and that's really I that's really how Fox like now Fox is a regular network, but like back then.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, who doesn't love the masked singer?
1:13:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, but I mean back then it was like ABC, NBC, CBS, and and you had cable, but cable wasn't as big.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_02: It was really the big three networks.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_02: And when Fox came onto the scene, it was like they had to kind of like they couldn't just be another network.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_02: They had to carve out some kind of identity.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, you had TBS, the super station, and they were tech they started out of Atlanta.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_03: And I even remember WWOR out of New York.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: Right, but those are all cable stations.
1:13:55
SPEAKER_02: Like you had to have cable, and not everybody had cable back then.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_02: So I brought it still over air.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:14:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when you talked about like original shows, like they didn't have original shows on cable back then.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_02: Like it was all broadcast television.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_03: It was I Love Lucy and the other reruns.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: So so that show really, I feel like made them the you know, that that that set them apart.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_02: So let's go to an alternate timeline where O'Neill makes the team.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_02: And he's a little time-changing sound.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_02: And he's part of the Steelers um first two Super Bowl teams in the 70s.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_02: He's not really a a star or anything, but he's, you know, he makes the team, he's on the team, he contributes.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_02: And because he has a a fairly long and stable career in football and makes some money doing that, he never pursues acting.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_02: So Married with Children is cast with a different actor playing the Albundi role.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_02: And because of that, never really takes off.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, they recast after the pilot, they recast the kids.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: Did they?
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: I do believe.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_03: Or maybe it was Peggy.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_03: No, it was Peg.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_03: Because yeah, um, what's her I can't remember the actress's name.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_03: C.
1:15:02
SPEAKER_03: Skull, I do they they I think they had the re- they did recast.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's go with the alternate reality where the Al Bundy's cast with somebody else and it's just it just doesn't work.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_02: Just doesn't work.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_02: So the Fo the Fox Network tries more and more traditional programming because if they're if their edgy married with children didn't work, well then we must need to go back to traditional programming.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_02: But it never really works, and the network eventually goes off the air altogether.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell So you oh wow.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_03: So you think the Simpsons are kind of like because of the success of Married with Children, they were afraid to get out.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_02: Married with children was three years before the Simpsons, I believe.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_02: Really?
1:15:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_02: I I I'd have to look that up for sure, but it was a few years before.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: Well, even on Well, they were well, they kind of weren't their own.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_03: Like when were they on Tracy Allman?
1:15:48
SPEAKER_03: Like that was our first.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but no.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_03: They were just like a bit.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_03: It was like it's almost like say, you know, what I I don't know what the current bits on Saturday Live are.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_02: And nobody watched the Tracy Allman show, so that wasn't that wasn't gonna save the Fox Network.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm going with Tracy Allman.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm going with whoever the executives were said, well, we tried like this edgy sitcom and it bombed.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_02: So shows like The Simpsons, they weren't even necessarily going to green light because that stuff doesn't work.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_02: So uh Fox Fox just doesn't work as a fourth network.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh shows like The Simpsons, X-Files, American Idol, Arrested Development, and 24 are never created.
1:16:28
SPEAKER_02: The careers of Jim Carrey, Conan O'Brien, Carrie Underwood, Seth McFarland are never launched.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_02: And in addition to all that, the Fox News channel is never launched, depriving rising political star Donald Trump the opportunity to endear himself to conservatives, and Jeb Bush becomes the 45th president of the United States in 2016.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_03: But Seth McFarlane's an American hero.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_02: I can't even say that in my James.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_02: All because the steel all because Chuck Noel decided to take a chance on a young linebacker named Ed O'Neill.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, I I I I'll I don't I mean it's your timeline and you can do it.
1:17:04
SPEAKER_03: You can do whatever you want with it.
1:17:06
SPEAKER_03: But I don't know if Rupert Murdoch would have given up that easily.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_03: Number number one.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_03: Number two, there was like Rush Limbaugh and all of them did have a lot of success on AM radio, but he never had any on TV, that's true.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_03: So there was kind of like this right-wing media that was kind of in its infancy.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: But I will say this too: Jeb Bush doesn't beat Hillary.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_03: Hillary Clinton's her 45th president.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_03: We're wrapping up.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_03: We're heading into a second term of Hillary Clinton.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to get into the political side of this, but a lot of people do not like Hillary Clinton.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if you're not going to be able to do that.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_03: He's another Mitt Romney.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_03: He's just going to, yeah.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_03: People aren't going to pick him over her.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think in going back to the I mean, not that I'm no political expert or anything, but that's just my two cents.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: Going back to Fox, though, like if if you didn't have success on broadcast television, then maybe you don't take the chance on cable news.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_03: So you you kind of like so no Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly or whoever else was on that network.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_02: By the time he's launching Fox News, the Fox broadcast network is really successful.
1:18:09
SPEAKER_02: That's 96.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: Like they have the NFL at that point.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_02: They're a big time network.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_02: That kind of is.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_03: Well when did CNBC and MSNBC?
1:18:16
SPEAKER_03: They were, I guess they were They were around that same time.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm going with Fox.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_02: Fox does not do well without the Aaron.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_03: So you're left with MSNBC maybe, or just maybe nobody does it.
1:18:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_03: And Anderson Cooper's the big show on every night.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_03: All because of uh And O'Neill flying football and stuff.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing is, um people listening will either really like that scenario or really hate that scenario.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_03: I still think Hillary Clinton wins over Jeb Bush.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_03: I just I just do.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_03: I really do.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm I I gotta go with something crazy.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, if you're going out there, might as well throw it out there.
1:18:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna take this all the way too.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_03: It's potentially logical conclusion.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_03: And Jim Carrey, oh no.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_03: No also like what about Kiefer Summerland?
1:19:04
SPEAKER_03: I guess he doesn't have a political career resurgence there.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_02: Carrie Underwood never gets never gets uh spotted for her talent.
1:19:12
SPEAKER_02: Like there's a lot of people that have the Fox Network.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_02: Kelly Clarkson.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_02: For their careers, yep.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_02: All right, Steve, wrap us up.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_03: All right, this is the last one, and um this is having having to go on a diet myself, yes, it's no fun.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_03: So this one's called John McSherry Goes on a Diet.
1:19:31
SPEAKER_03: So a good time had by all.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_03: Um in 1992 of Years of Good Success, the Pirates get the game seven of the NLCS against the Braves.
1:19:39
SPEAKER_03: They hold a tenuous two to nothing lead going to ninth inning, only three outs away from making the World Series for the first time since 1979.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, earlier in the game, John McSherry, Umpire John McSherry, who was behind the plate, who was in poor health, he leaves the game and is replaced by first place Umpire Randy Marsh.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_03: McSherry had a larger strike zone than Marsh and it changed the outtime of the game.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_03: When Jose Lean, just to not rehash the ninth inning too much, but Jose Lean still makes his error and Sid Bream walks, but then Ron Gantt flies out, and also Damon Berry Hill walks.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_03: Cavera gets his improbable hit, Sid slides in for the winning run, the pirates totally fall apart and not even competitive for 20 years plus due to free agency and cheap ownership.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_03: Braves finally go on to win a World Series and have over 20 years of consistent success under Body Bobby Cox and a great pitching staff.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_02: And and the Berry Hill at bat, we talked about this in this episode, but the Berry Hill bat especially at bat especially was some really, really close pitches.
1:20:42
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and so now you know make your little whatever you want, uh time change.
1:20:47
SPEAKER_03: Um for our John McSherry decides, you know what, maybe I'm not feeling too well.
1:20:50
SPEAKER_03: I should go see the doctor.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_03: So he goes to the doctor, and and to his benefit, he kind of goes like, and I like these kind of doctors sometimes.
1:20:58
SPEAKER_03: Just tell me what the truth is.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_03: The truth is what it is, and it don't hurt, you know?
1:21:02
SPEAKER_03: So he kind of has like a you know come to Jesus moment with the doctor, and the doctor says, Hey buddy, you know, you're you're gonna have a lot of health problems.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_03: You might want to lose some weight.
1:21:11
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, John McSherry kind of has like some personal introspection there and decides that he likes umpiring Major League Baseball rather than eating Big Macs.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's a tough call there.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_03: McDonald's, umpire Major League Baseball.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you which way I would fall on that, but I think John McSherry would pick pick the baseball too.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_03: So the Pirates and Braves still meeting that game seven in Atlantic.
1:21:34
SPEAKER_03: Now John McSherry, having dieted this whole year, is like 50 pounds less.
1:21:38
SPEAKER_03: His blood pressure's way great.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_03: He's like, wow, he's in the best shape of his Major League umpiring career.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_03: And uh he doesn't he doesn't feel ill.
1:21:49
SPEAKER_03: So we're in the alternate now.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_03: Uh he's able to stay behind the plate for the entire game.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_03: So the Pirates in the ninth inning, leading two to nothing with Doug Drabick on the mound.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_03: Or I'm gonna say Terry Pendelin still doubles, and I'm gonna say Jose Lean still makes his error, and that puts David Justice on base.
1:22:06
SPEAKER_03: Standa, Stan Belinda comes in and he gets Ron Gantt to fly out.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: The score is two to one.
1:22:12
SPEAKER_03: With McSherry behind the plate, the Damon Harry Berry Hill bat now goes totally different.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_03: As a result, two of the pitches called balls by fill in umpire Randy Marsh are now called strikes by McSherry.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_03: The end result is Berry Hill strikes out instead of walking to load the bases.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_03: So with two outs, Stan Belinda gets pinch hitter, just like happened in reality.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_03: Brian Hunter to pop out for the last out of the game.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_03: The Pirates win, the Pirates win.
1:22:39
SPEAKER_03: Yay! So the Pirates win their first series since 1979.
1:22:42
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, they have to play the Toronto Blue Jays in the 92 World Series.
1:22:46
SPEAKER_03: The Blue Jays were really good.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_03: But we're gonna stick with like we're gonna end on a happy note here.
1:22:52
SPEAKER_03: With Doug Drabick and Tim Wakefield, the Pirates have two pretty good pitchers.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_03: The Pirates defeat the heavily favored Blue Jays in six games.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_03: Uh the Pirates win their sixth World Series, also their first since 1979.
1:23:06
SPEAKER_03: Stan Belinda is now a Pittsburgh sports legend.
1:23:11
SPEAKER_03: And uh he gets those tough three outs in a game seven with nobody out and a couple guys on base.
1:23:16
SPEAKER_03: And he pushes the Pirates to push the Pirates to the World Series.
1:23:20
SPEAKER_03: He opens his restaurant in a now empty storefront that would have been Bettis' restaurant since he fumbled.
1:23:27
SPEAKER_03: And Ben didn't make it.
1:23:29
SPEAKER_03: We're combining the alternate timeline.
1:23:31
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
1:23:33
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, so now there's this empty storefront downtown, you know, to the Steelers.
1:23:37
SPEAKER_03: They haven't won a Super Bowl in a long time.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_03: But uh so so he opens his uh his own restaurant in the north side, and he likes to call it based bases loaded.
1:23:46
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
1:23:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the pop-up French fries and the Barry Harrel dessert are great, I hear down there.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh Sid Bream retires after the season.
1:23:54
SPEAKER_03: He spends the rest of his life in anonymity in Butler.
1:23:58
SPEAKER_03: You know, hey, major league pension is pretty good.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_03: You can probably live pretty well up there in Zealandopel, right?
1:24:03
SPEAKER_03: After a nice he had a good baseball career.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_03: Barry Bonds and Doug Jerry Bake still leave via free agency, and the team still does struggle due to the economics of baseball.
1:24:13
SPEAKER_03: But fans are kind of able to take like that Miami Marlins kind of saws, hey, we had a winning run and we got a got a World Series out of it.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_03: And with the Penguins winning two Stanley Cups, or if we want to continue with Alternative now three, if we combine all our alternative, now the Stanley's have three, and the Pirates add a third championship to the early nineties, making it one of the most successful sports eras since the 1970s in Pittsburgh sports history.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_02: All because John McClary decided to not even think back.
1:24:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:24:43
SPEAKER_03: See, health matters, folks.
1:24:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, eat right and diet, yeah.
1:24:49
SPEAKER_03: And and you know, maybe maybe we can combine all, you know, Bill Belichick gets hired, so you know, it's just you know, all roses for Pittsburgh sports.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_03: We like have as many championships as like New York now or LA.
1:25:00
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:25:02
SPEAKER_02: How about we have a universe with all the good ones, and I love an alternate universe with all the bad ones?
1:25:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:25:09
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
1:25:10
SPEAKER_02: Good way to end, Steve.
1:25:12
SPEAKER_02: Good way to end.
1:25:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks everybody.
1:25:14
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for humoring us and and uh engaging us in this.
1:25:18
SPEAKER_02: This was uh fun just to consider some alternate realities here of of what could have happened.
1:25:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh any last thoughts, Steve?
1:25:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh I still like the Berry Hill dessert and the pop-up french fries.
1:25:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:25:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_03: I guess John McSherry couldn't have any, but uh, but he could have a salad.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_03: He could come in and have a salad without the name after him.
1:25:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it doesn't have french fries on it.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_03: It has like some sort of diet dressing on it.
1:25:45
SPEAKER_03: And also, you know, for for for poor Umper McJohn McSherry, maybe he lives longer.
1:25:48
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't have that heart attack before that game in Cincinnati.
1:25:51
SPEAKER_03: So for Umpire John McSherry, it really, you know, not the it was a Moonlight Grant, it made all the difference in the world to him.
1:25:58
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:25:59
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that would have been much better for him, obviously.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:26:03
SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
1:26:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for listening.
1:26:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh please check us out on our website at Pittsburgh Sports Memories.weebly.com.
1:26:10
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1:26:12
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1:26:14
SPEAKER_02: And if you feel so inclined, please leave us a review.
1:26:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh that helps other people find us.
1:26:20
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.