Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Kyle calls Oli Marmol during the show! Herrera, pitching, Jimmy Crooks

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Kyle calls Oli Marmol during the show! Herrera, pitching, Jimmy Crooks · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:10
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes along with lance Lyn who's mobile today, and
0:14
Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson. Gentlemen, good to see it. We should have
0:18
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about today. But you know what,
0:21
Speaker 1: if you're a subscriber to this podcast and you enjoy,
0:25
Speaker 1: tell us some friends, would you. We're trying to get
0:27
Speaker 1: to seven K and here's the deal. If we get
0:30
Speaker 1: to seven K, then the first episode after that we're
0:33
Speaker 1: all going to be dressed in tuxedos for one episode.
0:37
Speaker 1: Not really, but it's worth the try. So we're trying
0:41
Speaker 1: to get some extra subscribers. All right, boys, cardinals.
0:44
Speaker 2: If it's Canadian, Jim.
0:49
Speaker 1: A Canadian tuxedo, I love dinner.
0:54
Speaker 3: Is that you've never heard of the Canadian tuxedo? Jim? No?
0:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, grew it well, I act like you've been on
0:58
Speaker 2: the earth before.
1:00
Speaker 1: A Canadian tuxedos dent look you live and learn.
1:03
Speaker 3: This is all jeans, all jean, all jeans suit denim.
1:07
Speaker 2: Have you not seen justin Timberlake in the nineties, for
1:09
Speaker 2: God's sakes or is that early two thousands? Either way,
1:12
Speaker 2: I miss look at it.
1:13
Speaker 1: I should have I should have I should have known,
1:16
Speaker 1: but this this is a podcast that informs and enlightens,
1:20
Speaker 1: and I have already learned something.
1:22
Speaker 2: Now it's a question or more denim. Yes, you're welcome.
1:27
Speaker 1: Okay, aren't we learning anything about the Saint Louis Cardinals
1:31
Speaker 1: off to a four and two start. The starting pitching
1:35
Speaker 1: has been very good, the hitting has been timely. Mason
1:41
Speaker 1: Winn had a nice walk off blop the other day.
1:44
Speaker 1: But the Cardinals are out of the blocks quickly. For
1:46
Speaker 1: a young team, you anticipate that builds a little confident.
1:49
Speaker 1: So lane's any takeaways from the first six games.
1:55
Speaker 2: Uh, you know it's gonna be a I get here's
1:58
Speaker 2: a tough thing. It's it's gonna be a fun one
2:00
Speaker 2: thing to watch, but it's gonna be frustrating at times,
2:02
Speaker 2: I think this year. But they have the ability to
2:05
Speaker 2: win games. We've said that they're talented, right, we just
2:08
Speaker 2: need guys to show up for one sixty two. Mason's
2:12
Speaker 2: done it. You have other guys that have done it.
2:16
Speaker 2: Burley's starting to take over a new role. It's gonna
2:19
Speaker 2: be fun to see Lars back in there whenever that
2:21
Speaker 2: comes Midsummer with this group, because he brings a different
2:24
Speaker 2: type of energy, so you're gonna have to take the
2:27
Speaker 2: lumps with it. Like you said, timely hitting, that's just hey,
2:30
Speaker 2: you know, they're gonna go through streaks where you know
2:32
Speaker 2: they're they're doing what they need to do, and then
2:34
Speaker 2: they're gonna get theirselves in some trouble. But that's just
2:37
Speaker 2: being young and learning how to establish what you need
2:39
Speaker 2: to establish in the box. Pitching the same way, these
2:42
Speaker 2: guys are gonna have to build off of each other
2:44
Speaker 2: h and scratch the you know, quality starts out like
2:48
Speaker 2: they're starting to do, and then also put the bullpen
2:51
Speaker 2: in good spots to you know, hide guys and not
2:54
Speaker 2: put them in tough situations. And then you can do
2:56
Speaker 2: that and then you start building confidence. So they have
2:58
Speaker 2: the talent and to do all that. You know, they
3:01
Speaker 2: don't have the big payroll, so everyone thinks, oh, they're
3:03
Speaker 2: supposed to lose a hundred games, but with the talent
3:06
Speaker 2: they have on their team. Top hundred prospects, most of
3:09
Speaker 2: them have been throughout their career at some point or
3:12
Speaker 2: forgotten about ballplayers that are good. They're gonna do some
3:16
Speaker 2: good things. We just got to let them learn how
3:17
Speaker 2: to do those things and then you see where you're
3:19
Speaker 2: at once the season starts, you know, building games in
3:22
Speaker 2: into it right now. But they're fun right now and
3:25
Speaker 2: hopefully they stay like that and there's gonna be some
3:26
Speaker 2: up and downs with it.
3:28
Speaker 1: Look, one thing is fun, Kyle, what do you like
3:30
Speaker 1: about the games you've seen so far?
3:34
Speaker 3: I think they can win in a lot of different ways,
3:36
Speaker 3: you know. I think their offense when they're hot, can
3:38
Speaker 3: carry them. I think they're bullpen just like the Day,
3:41
Speaker 3: can put up a lot of zeros and really be
3:44
Speaker 3: the strength that we thought it was going to be
3:45
Speaker 3: the whole time. And then I think, you know, Mason
3:49
Speaker 3: flashed the arm and flashed the defense that we know
3:51
Speaker 3: is there. And I just think they have the ability
3:55
Speaker 3: to be a pretty complete team at times. And I
3:58
Speaker 3: know that sounds crazy, but just because of their their payroll,
4:03
Speaker 3: like Lance said, people wouldn't look at them as a
4:05
Speaker 3: complete team. But I thought Lance's analogy of comparing them
4:09
Speaker 3: to the Brewers was really interesting last episode, and I mean,
4:13
Speaker 3: I can I can see it kind of being that way.
4:17
Speaker 1: I liked a lot of different things you mentioned. Mason
4:19
Speaker 1: win all right, the blue based if he was in
4:22
Speaker 1: a car accident. By the way, yesterday, we're told he's okay,
4:26
Speaker 1: So I want to mention it single car accident. We're
4:28
Speaker 1: told no injuries, but Mason has been putting on a
4:32
Speaker 1: clinic with the glove right and from a starting pitcher perspective,
4:37
Speaker 1: as both of you guys are, what does that mean
4:40
Speaker 1: to have a guy like Mason win back there lance
4:44
Speaker 1: knowing that if it's on the ground, he's probably going
4:47
Speaker 1: to get it and that arm is unbelievable.
4:51
Speaker 2: So I think the beauty of Mason as young players
4:53
Speaker 2: are so worried about their bat that sometimes that they
4:56
Speaker 2: forget about how good they can be defensively. Mason's goal
5:01
Speaker 2: no matter where he's at on the field, whether it's
5:03
Speaker 2: in the boxer on the field, just to let you
5:05
Speaker 2: know that he can be the best player at at
5:08
Speaker 2: his position and he wants to show that off. So
5:10
Speaker 2: when you have a guy like that behind you, you know,
5:13
Speaker 2: no matter what's going on offensively or anything like that,
5:17
Speaker 2: he's locked in and he's always gonna be locked in
5:18
Speaker 2: and you're gonna get one hundred percent effort. So that's
5:21
Speaker 2: the beauty of Mason. The energy that he plays with,
5:24
Speaker 2: the passion that he plays with, the fire like He's
5:26
Speaker 2: there every day and it's stay in and day out,
5:28
Speaker 2: and it's not as Kyle and I know it's not
5:31
Speaker 2: one of those things for show like it's it's for him.
5:34
Speaker 2: It beats inside of him differently. It's not something to
5:37
Speaker 2: be like, hey, look at me. It's like, hey, this
5:39
Speaker 2: is who I am, and this is how I play
5:40
Speaker 2: the game, and I'm gonna do it as hard as
5:42
Speaker 2: I can, whether you like it or not. But I'm
5:44
Speaker 2: here every day doing it the same way, so there's
5:47
Speaker 2: no facade about it or anything like that. So that's
5:49
Speaker 2: what I love about Mason. And he's learning the more
5:52
Speaker 2: and more as he goes, you know, I think offensively
5:56
Speaker 2: it's gonna come. I'd like to see him up at
5:58
Speaker 2: the top of the lineup so he doesn't feel like
5:59
Speaker 2: he has to drive the ball and he can be
6:01
Speaker 2: who he is and him and JJ together can do
6:04
Speaker 2: some running and do some havoc because I think that's
6:07
Speaker 2: what they're going to do for guys, and then but
6:09
Speaker 2: Herrera and Burley behind them, so it just turns into
6:12
Speaker 2: a nice fun show for everybody to see what everybody's
6:14
Speaker 2: capable of. But Mason's a beauty and he's always there,
6:17
Speaker 2: and he's always wanting to make sure that he makes
6:19
Speaker 2: every play possible no matter what's going on.
6:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got JJ, they got leaning Off. I like
6:25
Speaker 1: one at the top. Two, Kyle, what are your thoughts?
6:29
Speaker 3: Lance took my answer there. We definitely agree on his
6:32
Speaker 3: defense always shows up and he prides himself on being
6:36
Speaker 3: able to take hits away when he's not getting hits
6:38
Speaker 3: and young players, that's very rare, I would agree. I
6:44
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what I understand that. I know that
6:47
Speaker 3: Ali and his staff has a thought process here about
6:49
Speaker 3: why we have these guys lined up where they are
6:52
Speaker 3: in the lineup. But this is probably with all of
6:55
Speaker 3: the sports ready that I listened to and effort or
6:58
Speaker 3: with the goal of being able to cold call one
7:00
Speaker 3: on one ESPN and and debate them at a moment's notice,
7:03
Speaker 3: But with all of the one on one ESPN I
7:05
Speaker 3: listened to, this is like the biggest question they have
7:08
Speaker 3: is why as Mason when hitting cleanup? Uh, they don't
7:12
Speaker 3: understand the left right, left right, which I think baseball
7:15
Speaker 3: people do at this point. But I'm not really sure
7:19
Speaker 3: what all the thinking is that goes into it that
7:21
Speaker 3: you don't have JJ and Mason one and two, and
7:24
Speaker 3: then Burley and Herrera after that, and then if it's
7:27
Speaker 3: a lefty on the mound, Mason, JJ, Herrera, Burley, these
7:32
Speaker 3: guys are not too set in in their approach where
7:35
Speaker 3: Herrera can't go to three and Bury four and flip flop,
7:39
Speaker 3: and same with Mason and JJ. I don't think that
7:42
Speaker 3: freeates an issue. So it's probably what I would do.
7:45
Speaker 3: But it's also the reason why I'm retired and sitting
7:47
Speaker 3: in my house. I'm gonna go work outside today because
7:50
Speaker 3: I don't do enough researchers to figure out why Herrera
7:54
Speaker 3: is in the two and Mason's in the four. I
7:56
Speaker 3: would flip up. I would Allie, Allie, I know you're watching.
8:00
Speaker 3: I would flip them, but.
8:03
Speaker 2: Easy, flip easy. So the question is Herrera is Herrera
8:08
Speaker 2: in the two holes? So when Victor Scott's going right,
8:11
Speaker 2: you have Victor JJ in front of Herrera on the backside.
8:15
Speaker 2: But I start the game with my my best, my
8:18
Speaker 2: best three hitters, so if you want to go, if
8:20
Speaker 2: you want to go, I mean our best four right,
8:23
Speaker 2: and but I put get some guys on base in
8:25
Speaker 2: front of them, and I think, like we always talk about, JJ,
8:29
Speaker 2: is bringing an enthusiasm that is infectious. Mason Winn has
8:34
Speaker 2: that same one. So put those both those guys in
8:37
Speaker 2: a situation to put the team on their back with
8:41
Speaker 2: that enthusiasm the fans, and they'll get it going. And
8:44
Speaker 2: then Burley will feed off of them in a heartbeat
8:47
Speaker 2: as we've seen, and he's not afraid of any situation
8:49
Speaker 2: with runners on or not, and the same with Herrera.
8:52
Speaker 2: And then it gives the It gives the picture on
8:55
Speaker 2: the mount. Also another thing they got to worry about
8:57
Speaker 2: because they'll steal back start right, So you gotta worry
8:59
Speaker 2: about and quick to the play this and that, so
9:01
Speaker 2: you make mistakes for her Burley. So that's my spill
9:04
Speaker 2: as a starting pitcher. That's what I would hate to
9:06
Speaker 2: face going in. If I'm like, oh cool, I gotta
9:09
Speaker 2: I get JJ out, then I don't have to worry
9:11
Speaker 2: about her and then it's just you just adding more
9:14
Speaker 2: havoc for a starting picture to deal with those two
9:16
Speaker 2: at the top. In my opinion, I'll let you know
9:19
Speaker 2: if you touched him back.
9:20
Speaker 3: I texted him, I texted him, I texted Olie, asked
9:23
Speaker 3: him the question in real time. We'll see if we
9:24
Speaker 3: get an answer. I did end the text with By
9:27
Speaker 3: the way, even though we're questioning you, you're the man.
9:29
Speaker 3: So hopefully that lets her know that we really want
9:32
Speaker 3: to hear from him.
9:32
Speaker 2: Lances, Lance's blasting you. Lance's blasting you right now. Beheads up.
9:37
Speaker 3: Oh that would probably really make him. That would make
9:39
Speaker 3: him even answer faster.
9:40
Speaker 2: Say he might call me, you might call me.
9:43
Speaker 1: I love that. By the way, Kyle Campbell Wax does
9:46
Speaker 1: sports talk. They have a great group that does Cardinals.
9:50
Speaker 1: You should listen to that. Plus we might end up
9:53
Speaker 1: doing something with them at some point. So saying nice
9:55
Speaker 1: things about good watch it's not just one on one
9:59
Speaker 1: promotion will show just for the record, all right. By
10:03
Speaker 1: the way, Dickter Scott, the second is off to a
10:05
Speaker 1: good start. I want to talk about Herrera. I don't
10:08
Speaker 1: think anyone that watches the Cardinals is worried that the
10:11
Speaker 1: timing wouldn't come. It seems to have kicked in. He
10:14
Speaker 1: wasn't worried about it, but he's caught.
10:16
Speaker 3: All the games. Call me?
10:19
Speaker 1: Is that true?
10:21
Speaker 3: Ollie? What's up?
10:24
Speaker 2: You're calling him? Live Alli?
10:26
Speaker 3: I'm on, I'm on right now. Okay, hey hold hey,
10:31
Speaker 3: uh do you want to tell him yourself? Here? I'll
10:36
Speaker 3: put no, he really can't hear you, not unless you
10:39
Speaker 3: I can send you the Lincoln. You can click in,
10:40
Speaker 3: but it might be too much, Jim, he says, grow up.
10:44
Speaker 1: He says that every day.
10:46
Speaker 3: Hey, Lix, he loves you, even though you disagree with him,
10:49
Speaker 3: He loves you.
10:50
Speaker 2: Hey, tell him. Put Mason into two hole. Put Herrera
10:53
Speaker 2: in the four in less rock.
10:55
Speaker 3: Hey, Lias says, put Mason into a hole, Herrera in
10:57
Speaker 3: the four hole.
10:58
Speaker 1: In its rock, right, yep, tell him this is great?
11:09
Speaker 1: All right? I want you to Mason should lead off.
11:13
Speaker 1: He should be Mason. JJ.
11:15
Speaker 2: I like that. That's what I looked at it there
11:18
Speaker 2: there there at your top. And then let Burley uh
11:21
Speaker 2: fit in where they need.
11:23
Speaker 1: Plus Mason wants he likes leading off, like he was
11:26
Speaker 1: into it last year when they gave him that opportunity.
11:29
Speaker 1: And I think with the young team and he's one
11:31
Speaker 1: of the leaders embraced that. All right, here you go.
11:33
Speaker 1: JJ is fine with it. All right, But let me
11:36
Speaker 1: let me ask you about Herrera and then we'll get
11:38
Speaker 1: back to Mason leading off. When when Kyle gets his
11:42
Speaker 1: answer from Ali in real time, what a chieved show
11:45
Speaker 1: we are with Herrera? All right, he's gotten a couple
11:49
Speaker 1: of chances to catch. Last year couldn't throw people like
11:52
Speaker 1: that guy can't catch. We had loose particles in his
11:55
Speaker 1: elbow and throwing elbow. Had that cleaned up. He wants
11:58
Speaker 1: to catch, because he said that's like his minist dream
12:02
Speaker 1: to at least get some opportunity to catch. We know
12:04
Speaker 1: the hitting was going to come around. Just your thoughts
12:06
Speaker 1: of him as a as a as a catcher and
12:09
Speaker 1: being able to do whatever it takes to get back
12:12
Speaker 1: behind the plate.
12:13
Speaker 2: No, I think it's huge for the team.
12:15
Speaker 3: Right.
12:15
Speaker 2: Anytime you can put that bat behind the plate and
12:17
Speaker 2: you're not worried about having any you know, major defensive
12:22
Speaker 2: problems is huge. So I think if his throwing is
12:24
Speaker 2: where it needs to be, I've thrown to him behind
12:26
Speaker 2: the plate. He works his butt off at game planning,
12:29
Speaker 2: he catches blocks, he does all the things you need to.
12:32
Speaker 2: I think the throwing was obviously the major thing. And
12:34
Speaker 2: obviously when you have issues physically throwing, your mechanics get weird.
12:39
Speaker 2: You just you try to band aid it and it
12:41
Speaker 2: just doesn't come out well. So if he can be
12:44
Speaker 2: behind the plate for you know, a certain port part
12:47
Speaker 2: of the games, and this then that that gives you
12:49
Speaker 2: another bat in the lineup that you can put at
12:51
Speaker 2: d H, give a guy's day off their feet in
12:54
Speaker 2: the outfield, or you know, Burly a day off at first,
12:57
Speaker 2: things like that. I think it's huge. So having a
13:01
Speaker 2: offensive minded catcher quote that can play, that can do
13:04
Speaker 2: enough defensively to not you know, be a liability is
13:07
Speaker 2: huge and he's definitely capable of all that. So as
13:10
Speaker 2: the team goes that's huge for them, it's huge for him,
13:13
Speaker 2: and I think as the year goes on, Oli will
13:16
Speaker 2: be able to incorporate those off days as they call
13:20
Speaker 2: him for guys as in the d H spot where
13:23
Speaker 2: where an Ivan can catch and then vice versa. For Ivan,
13:26
Speaker 2: you kit him on the field more to d H
13:29
Speaker 2: in his days, so he's not behind the plate too
13:31
Speaker 2: much because we don't want to lose him for an
13:33
Speaker 2: extent of period of time. So it could be a
13:34
Speaker 2: huge benef beneficiary for the whole team.
13:38
Speaker 1: He's also really good at at the ABS. I know,
13:42
Speaker 1: if we can go back to the Gibson camp, I'm
13:44
Speaker 1: going to ask our director Henry, because we're kind of
13:47
Speaker 1: doing this on the fly. If I don't see him,
13:49
Speaker 1: I guess the answer is no, because I want to
13:51
Speaker 1: be answer. Hey, Kyle, wrap it up with Atli, would you.
13:58
Speaker 2: This is what the people is, what people want. How
14:00
Speaker 2: come on, he's gonna give us it.
14:01
Speaker 3: He's gonna give it.
14:03
Speaker 2: Still at the end.
14:06
Speaker 1: Okay. I mean it's too long with Autley and I
14:08
Speaker 1: think he's buck kissing.
14:09
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna ask you.
14:10
Speaker 3: All right, guys, I got my answer, and then get
14:13
Speaker 3: you on here next week, especially as it works out,
14:16
Speaker 3: because when you start playing our lineup, when you start
14:18
Speaker 3: playing our lineup, we've got to have you on to
14:19
Speaker 3: talk about it.
14:20
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, get hot. Don't let him get hot
14:24
Speaker 2: in our lineup?
14:26
Speaker 3: All right? All right, here's what we got, guys. All right,
14:28
Speaker 3: here's what we got. All right. Uh, everybody understands that
14:33
Speaker 3: the two hole is kind of it profiles as the
14:35
Speaker 3: hitter that hits gets the most abs and between your
14:39
Speaker 3: nine hole and one hole getting on base a lot,
14:40
Speaker 3: you just have a lot of bats for that type
14:44
Speaker 3: of a hitter. Does Is it perfect in that situation
14:48
Speaker 3: to have Herrera be that guy? Maybe not perfect? Does
14:53
Speaker 3: he profile probably as a power three four hitter? Yes,
14:57
Speaker 3: but for what this team needs, it really makes sense
15:00
Speaker 3: to have in all his mind, it makes sense to
15:02
Speaker 3: have Herrera in that too, and then Mason, which I
15:07
Speaker 3: when they first started putting in Mason fool This is
15:09
Speaker 3: what I loved about it, and this is what all
15:11
Speaker 3: I kind of confirmed, is that with JJ, Herrara, and Burley,
15:16
Speaker 3: all three guys who are probably gonna get on base
15:18
Speaker 3: a lot, and you've already seen Herrera's getting walked intentionally
15:22
Speaker 3: a couple of times, Burley's leading the team on base,
15:25
Speaker 3: and JJ has a chance to profile to being on
15:27
Speaker 3: bass guy as well. Then that gives Mason the chance
15:31
Speaker 3: because he's not a double play guy and he doesn't
15:34
Speaker 3: strike out a lot, so in all his mind, even
15:38
Speaker 3: though he might not have the power of a four
15:40
Speaker 3: whole hitter, it seems like the understanding here is, Mason,
15:43
Speaker 3: we need you in this spot because if it's first
15:46
Speaker 3: and third, one out in the first inning, we're not
15:48
Speaker 3: worried about you hitting into a double play, and we're
15:51
Speaker 3: not worried about you striking out, so more than likely
15:53
Speaker 3: it's our best chance to get a run in that
15:56
Speaker 3: first inning if that's the scenario we're in. With that case,
16:00
Speaker 3: I do love it, right, I don't mind it at all,
16:02
Speaker 3: And I think it gives Mason a chance, just like
16:04
Speaker 3: you did the other day, to be up in a
16:07
Speaker 3: spot where you need a ball put in play with
16:09
Speaker 3: two outs to give yourself a chance to win the game. Yeah,
16:15
Speaker 3: so he doesn't necessarily hate the idea of flip flopping
16:18
Speaker 3: one and two, three and four based on facing a
16:20
Speaker 3: righty lefty, But what he's trying to avoid down in
16:24
Speaker 3: the order is three lefties in a row or three
16:27
Speaker 3: out of four being lefties, and really, given Burley Gorman
16:32
Speaker 3: and you name the other lefty, a tough lefty to
16:36
Speaker 3: have to face in that seventh eighth inning when that's
16:38
Speaker 3: normally that pocket that that comes in and if you're
16:41
Speaker 3: behind in that instance and you need to run, you
16:44
Speaker 3: either have to pinch up for one of those guys
16:45
Speaker 3: in your mind, or you're just in a harder run
16:48
Speaker 3: scoring situation if you don't have a league. That's what
16:50
Speaker 3: we got, guys, live call in from Ali mar mall
16:53
Speaker 3: here on Cardinal Territory. I apologize that I wasn't a
16:56
Speaker 3: part of the show, but I was talking to somebody
16:58
Speaker 3: pretty important.
17:00
Speaker 2: No, it's good. That's that's live insider feeding and that's
17:02
Speaker 2: what this is all about. And that gives me an idea,
17:05
Speaker 2: though I would love to ask him for a follow
17:07
Speaker 2: up later. What was he going to do when Lars
17:09
Speaker 2: comes back? Because Lars is your two or three hole hitter,
17:12
Speaker 2: so that's when he's going to have to make a
17:13
Speaker 2: choice on what he does at the top. And I
17:16
Speaker 2: think right now it works because of the lack of
17:19
Speaker 2: having Lars in the lineup. When Lars comes back, everybody's
17:22
Speaker 2: got to move down one and you can't have Mason
17:24
Speaker 2: fifth in the lineup or whatever it may be, so
17:27
Speaker 2: or Burley or Herrera like so it's like that's where
17:31
Speaker 2: it's going to get interesting for me on how on
17:33
Speaker 2: how he breaks.
17:34
Speaker 3: It, he says. He also said he'd come on at
17:36
Speaker 3: any point, So I almost texted him the link that
17:38
Speaker 3: we have for the show that he could join now,
17:40
Speaker 3: but I figured that might be too much, but he
17:42
Speaker 3: said he joined me on, so so we'll get we'll
17:45
Speaker 3: get another series win against Detroit here and then maybe
17:47
Speaker 3: Monday is just a perfect time to to have him on.
17:50
Speaker 3: I also told him when he starts playing our lineup,
17:53
Speaker 3: we're really going to need to have him come on
17:55
Speaker 3: as only if it goes well, then we can talk
17:57
Speaker 3: about it. If he plays our lineup and it's and
17:59
Speaker 3: it's not good, and then we don't want to talk
18:01
Speaker 3: to him.
18:02
Speaker 1: You know, Look, we can do we can do wonders
18:04
Speaker 1: for Oley and I'll still say it again, Mason should
18:06
Speaker 1: lead off. Okay, Abs, We've seen it by the way,
18:09
Speaker 1: Herrera he challenged two pitches in one at back when
18:13
Speaker 1: he was at the plate and won both. This is
18:16
Speaker 1: a guy and he's like at the top of the
18:18
Speaker 1: league in winning those, you know, the challenges in baseball.
18:22
Speaker 1: He knows his strike zone. But it's been fun. Right
18:25
Speaker 1: they put it on the board. You get to see
18:28
Speaker 1: if the umpire's right or wrong. With the C. B. Buckner,
18:31
Speaker 1: he's wrong all the time, and the fans celebrate it
18:34
Speaker 1: the way that it shapes out and we see it
18:36
Speaker 1: now in real time wins.
18:37
Speaker 3: Do you like it?
18:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I think you're already have seen umpires that might
18:45
Speaker 2: or might not have been known to be the worst
18:47
Speaker 2: around being exposed right out of the gate. You know,
18:51
Speaker 2: some of them retired in years past, or it would
18:53
Speaker 2: have been fun to see them get challenged in some
18:56
Speaker 2: of this. You know, it is what it is. Everyone
18:59
Speaker 2: just wants it to be right. I would love for
19:02
Speaker 2: it to just be just all the way through where
19:07
Speaker 2: they get buzzed and we don't have to see it.
19:09
Speaker 2: So they don't have to deal with this because it
19:11
Speaker 2: is I mean, there are humans, so you don't want
19:14
Speaker 2: them to get bashed for making bad calls. But you
19:16
Speaker 2: also don't want them to cause problems in a game
19:19
Speaker 2: for making a bad call, which has happened in the past.
19:21
Speaker 2: So anything you can get right is huge, and it's
19:24
Speaker 2: you know, the fans and stuff are having fun with it,
19:25
Speaker 2: but it would be nice for every call to be
19:28
Speaker 2: what it's supposed to be. So I think we're going
19:30
Speaker 2: in that direction. But right now we can have some
19:32
Speaker 2: fun with it. But the problem with that is you're
19:34
Speaker 2: also having it with at people's expense, which you know,
19:38
Speaker 2: no one wants to hurt people's feelings. I would never
19:40
Speaker 2: do that. So but other than that, that's the only
19:43
Speaker 2: problem with it right now.
19:45
Speaker 1: Oh he's warm and fuzzy. He's warm fuzzy, look.
19:50
Speaker 3: Wrong a lot? Yeah, I mean, but come on though,
19:55
Speaker 3: like I just think, I think the umpires have two choice.
20:00
Speaker 3: Is here in my mind, they either embrace this and
20:04
Speaker 3: they figure out how to understand that we all miss
20:08
Speaker 3: calls and we don't want to be the reason why
20:12
Speaker 3: a game ends or is impacted negatively. They don't want
20:15
Speaker 3: to see their umpire scorecard be one and a half
20:18
Speaker 3: runs in favor of a team, or see that they
20:20
Speaker 3: missed eighty five percent of the calls and they impacted
20:24
Speaker 3: the outcome of the game. So they can either embrace
20:26
Speaker 3: it and every now and then when they have a
20:28
Speaker 3: bad game, like say something to the player that challenged
20:31
Speaker 3: three times and say, hey, you know the zone better
20:34
Speaker 3: than me today it's going to happen, and just laugh
20:36
Speaker 3: it off. You can't be so upset that you're getting
20:39
Speaker 3: frustrated when players are challenging their calls, because you're human,
20:42
Speaker 3: you're going to mess them up. The other option they
20:45
Speaker 3: have is do what a couple guys have done and
20:49
Speaker 3: get upset and make a spectacle about it and get
20:52
Speaker 3: a little feelings hurt, and they're going to be not
20:55
Speaker 3: calling balls and strikes very soon because abs challenged is
21:00
Speaker 3: not going away. It's going to turn into automatic ballstrack
21:03
Speaker 3: with no umpires calling anything if it keeps getting this
21:07
Speaker 3: way and they're acting like they're getting their feelings hurt,
21:09
Speaker 3: because that's not what Rob Manford wants to see and
21:11
Speaker 3: that's not what players want to see. We don't want
21:13
Speaker 3: to see an umpire getting upset because he's the one
21:16
Speaker 3: who messed up and the player got it right, right,
21:19
Speaker 3: Like I don't think a player needs to be embarrassed
21:22
Speaker 3: either or or get you know, ridiculed for missing a challenge.
21:27
Speaker 3: I mean, if you think you're right, take a chance, right.
21:31
Speaker 3: But I don't think umpires getting upset is the way
21:34
Speaker 3: to go here.
21:36
Speaker 1: And you know what, it's really a tenth of an
21:38
Speaker 1: inch sometimes that the call goes one way or the other.
21:41
Speaker 3: So it like in the stadium in stadium, I understand
21:47
Speaker 3: that it was at cebe Bucker's expense, but some of
21:49
Speaker 3: the loudest cheers for that inning when they're making a
21:52
Speaker 3: comeback and their scoring runs and the players getting the
21:55
Speaker 3: right and the players getting other opportunities right, Like it's
21:58
Speaker 3: in Baltimore. They had a walk up, they had a
22:00
Speaker 3: walk off challenge yesterday. What do you don't you think
22:03
Speaker 3: the fans were pretty excited when it was a two
22:05
Speaker 3: to two count and Besido tapt his helmet and all
22:07
Speaker 3: of a sudden, the game's over and everybody gets a cheer.
22:09
Speaker 3: They love it.
22:11
Speaker 2: I think better if the space is loaded in the
22:13
Speaker 2: bottom of the ninth and by one run, not six
22:17
Speaker 2: or whatever it was. But that only been better.
22:19
Speaker 1: Sure, for sure, that's great. So is this podcast. The
22:23
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory is gonna take a quick break. We'll have
22:26
Speaker 1: more right after this.
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23:14
Speaker 1: Now we had Olie Marvelo on the phone with Kyle.
23:20
Speaker 1: That's kind of fun. The next stipic I wanted to
23:22
Speaker 1: bring up a gentleman is about pitching and a guy
23:25
Speaker 1: you guys really like Andre Colante. So he pitched five
23:31
Speaker 1: innings really good baseball the other day, and he looks
23:35
Speaker 1: through it. He has a kick change, now I get that.
23:37
Speaker 1: But he looks more confident. And someone told me he
23:41
Speaker 1: looks like he's been left in weights. So I asked
23:43
Speaker 1: him about it and he said, no, I'm just not
23:46
Speaker 1: slouching anymore. I'm much more confident. But you could see
23:49
Speaker 1: Lance even his you know, his demeanor on the mound
23:53
Speaker 1: and his his amange out in the mound. He looks
23:56
Speaker 1: like a different guy pitching. Well, he's mixing it up.
23:59
Speaker 1: That's a big thing, not being predictable. Just your thoughts
24:02
Speaker 1: on what Polante is and maybe what he could be.
24:05
Speaker 2: Well, when you when your arsenal is rounding into a
24:09
Speaker 2: form where you have a a counter for every hitter,
24:15
Speaker 2: you're gonna walk around with a little bit more confidence.
24:17
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. Andre has always been prepared. He's
24:21
Speaker 2: always taken care of himself, and he's always wanted to succeed.
24:24
Speaker 2: It's been a slow process. Each year you've seen him
24:28
Speaker 2: kind of take the step and then the next year
24:30
Speaker 2: kind of like we need to make the nake, make
24:33
Speaker 2: the next one. So this year is with a changeup.
24:35
Speaker 2: He's got another another thing, another wrinkle that he can
24:38
Speaker 2: put into things. So that's part of the process of
24:40
Speaker 2: growing as a pitcher in the major leagues and doing
24:44
Speaker 2: things that you know that you have to do. So
24:47
Speaker 2: hopefully this is where you can see Andre kind of
24:50
Speaker 2: figure out who he is and know when and where
24:52
Speaker 2: to use stuff, maybe not put too much pressure on
24:55
Speaker 2: making the perfect pitch because you have other pitches that
24:58
Speaker 2: you can incorporate, so you don't have to be perfect.
25:01
Speaker 2: So that's the process I think we're seeing. Hopefully it's
25:04
Speaker 2: one of those things that keeps going on. The main
25:06
Speaker 2: thing is for him is free pre base runners. Man,
25:09
Speaker 2: he's got to have the confidence to fill up the
25:11
Speaker 2: strike zone with every offer, and he has because he
25:14
Speaker 2: has unique stuff that plays really well. If you're able
25:18
Speaker 2: to compliment with the pieces that he has now, so
25:21
Speaker 2: being able to incorporate those percentage wise usage wise where
25:24
Speaker 2: he needs to, and then he can go have more
25:26
Speaker 2: confidence to getting the strike zone and not walk people
25:29
Speaker 2: walks where his killer last year the year before walks
25:32
Speaker 2: in it hurting and he had you know a little
25:34
Speaker 2: better ra and stuff like that. Last year, the walks
25:36
Speaker 2: seemed to hurt him. So if he just minimizes the
25:38
Speaker 2: walks and uses his stuff and uses percentages and mixed
25:42
Speaker 2: up pitches the way he needs to, he's got all
25:44
Speaker 2: this stuff to be a very good major league starter,
25:46
Speaker 2: and that confidence will build as he goes.
25:51
Speaker 1: Cow thoughts.
25:54
Speaker 3: I like the addition of a change up. Andre in
25:59
Speaker 3: my mind is and has been a pitch moving arm
26:06
Speaker 3: side away from being really really tough at bat every
26:12
Speaker 3: time for rioters and lefties. And I think if the
26:15
Speaker 3: changeup is able to go down or down and into
26:18
Speaker 3: a riding and down the way to a lefty, I
26:20
Speaker 3: think it's a good addition. You know, something that he
26:22
Speaker 3: worked on throwing a few more two seems in twenty
26:24
Speaker 3: twenty four that I thought was a good addition for him,
26:28
Speaker 3: And I think it just keeps hitters honest. And yeah,
26:32
Speaker 3: I agree with all of what Lance said. He he
26:34
Speaker 3: works hard. Andre is a he is somewhat not like
26:39
Speaker 3: an emotional like he is, you know, a roller coaster.
26:41
Speaker 3: He's emotionally unstable, that's not it. He pitches with emotion
26:46
Speaker 3: and he kind of lets game situations a little bit
26:53
Speaker 3: cause him to get up and get down, and he's
26:55
Speaker 3: hard on himself. He wants to be really good and
26:57
Speaker 3: sometimes he wears that a little bit too much. But
27:00
Speaker 3: you know, I saw it going out of the game
27:01
Speaker 3: the other day. He left a couple runners on base.
27:04
Speaker 3: He hated it, he yelled, and then you know, the
27:07
Speaker 3: the bullpen was able to get him out of it
27:09
Speaker 3: and preserve the lead. So you know, Andre's he's a
27:12
Speaker 3: special guy. He is really appreciated getting to know him.
27:17
Speaker 3: Lance really appreciated to get to know him. That was fun.
27:22
Speaker 3: But I've been the guy that is, when you don't
27:25
Speaker 3: rely on strikeouts or twenty something or thirty percent of
27:29
Speaker 3: your outs, you're kind of at the mercy of ball
27:31
Speaker 3: in play. And it's it's tough, right. I had a
27:35
Speaker 3: lot of up and down years because I was never
27:37
Speaker 3: a strikeout guy that can rely on getting out of
27:40
Speaker 3: things most of the time with swinging this so you
27:43
Speaker 3: got to pitch a little bit more, You gotta you
27:45
Speaker 3: gotta be able to locate a little bit more. In
27:46
Speaker 3: the days that you don't locate, it's a really it's
27:49
Speaker 3: kind of tough. But I think Andre's learning that, and
27:52
Speaker 3: he had the chance to keep being a very good
27:54
Speaker 3: major league pitcher.
27:56
Speaker 1: The whole staff lance done strike guys, at least in
27:59
Speaker 1: the early go Libby has some strikeouts stuff early on,
28:03
Speaker 1: though they're not striking out a lot of guys, and
28:05
Speaker 1: that's kind of a big piece in MLB. Is that
28:08
Speaker 1: a concern for you at this point in the early gong?
28:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely don't want to be last in that category.
28:15
Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. I think
28:17
Speaker 2: they have people that have the ability to strike people out.
28:21
Speaker 2: Now the question is as the game planning and the
28:24
Speaker 2: sharpness of pitches and this and that come, are those
28:27
Speaker 2: going to build. The one positive I think that they
28:29
Speaker 2: have if you're not going to be a strikeout staff
28:31
Speaker 2: is they have a very good defense behind them, especially
28:33
Speaker 2: up the middle all the way through. So they have
28:38
Speaker 2: the ability to weather the lack of strikeouts because of
28:41
Speaker 2: how good their defense is. But you're gonna need to
28:44
Speaker 2: see those numbers kick up a little bit. But I
28:46
Speaker 2: also caution this, don't start chasing strikeouts and then put
28:50
Speaker 2: free runners on by walking people. So you know, figure
28:54
Speaker 2: out when and where it's your time to go for it,
28:57
Speaker 2: and then before that, make sure that you you know,
29:00
Speaker 2: you fill up the strike zoning and you keep your
29:02
Speaker 2: defense the quality defense they are, because they'll they'll start,
29:06
Speaker 2: you know, getting a little less athletic the more you
29:10
Speaker 2: sit there and watch people walk people instead of keep
29:12
Speaker 2: them on their toes and keep the ball in playing
29:13
Speaker 2: and keeping striking the strike zone movement. So yes, it's
29:16
Speaker 2: worries them, but they have the defense to handle it.
29:19
Speaker 2: But make sure you don't chase strikeouts and then end
29:22
Speaker 2: up walking people just to get that number up. So
29:25
Speaker 2: you know it's gonna it's gonna go as teams go
29:27
Speaker 2: throughout the year, and they're playing two teams that you
29:29
Speaker 2: know might not strike out as much as the year
29:31
Speaker 2: goes on anyways, So we'll see what happens when the
29:34
Speaker 2: more strikeout prone teams come into town.
29:37
Speaker 3: Overall, I'm not a huge fan of FIP, right, hold
29:39
Speaker 3: on one thing. I'm not a huge fan of FIP
29:41
Speaker 3: in general. Like I'm a fan of not giving up runs.
29:44
Speaker 3: So if you don't give up runs, I think that's
29:45
Speaker 3: a good thing if you're not going to strike out guys, though,
29:48
Speaker 3: I kind have said, you can't walk people and you
29:49
Speaker 3: got to keep the ball in the ballpark, all right,
29:51
Speaker 3: So they're they're in the top half of home runs allowed,
29:54
Speaker 3: and they need to be in the top five to
29:56
Speaker 3: top ten of walks. Right, they've got too many walks.
29:59
Speaker 3: You look at strikeout to walk ratio. That's got to
30:02
Speaker 3: be better. You know, three or four to one for
30:04
Speaker 3: a whole staff would probably be good. Maybe that's too much,
30:08
Speaker 3: but you've got to get the walks down, and Dusty
30:10
Speaker 3: knows this. Keep the walks down, keep the homers down,
30:12
Speaker 3: and your strikeouts aren't going to be as big of
30:14
Speaker 3: a deal.
30:16
Speaker 1: Cool, all right, last topic, I want to throw out
30:18
Speaker 1: there because Herrera's catching now, because he's got the healthy elbow,
30:24
Speaker 1: pot has slow start offensively. I know the pitchers love
30:28
Speaker 1: him because he works his butt off to be prepared.
30:30
Speaker 1: And then you got Poso who everybody goes. But in
30:33
Speaker 1: the minors, Jimmy Crooks is just crunching the baseball, I
30:37
Speaker 1: mean early going. He's here, he got three hundred, he's
30:40
Speaker 1: batting three hundred, He's I'm sorry, he's batting five hundred,
30:44
Speaker 1: already has three homers. And I know Cardinal fans, you know,
30:49
Speaker 1: kind of got really excited about Jimmy Crooks last year.
30:51
Speaker 1: Is a little bit of an adjustment period. But if
30:54
Speaker 1: a guy is killing it at Triple A like Cruks is,
30:57
Speaker 1: and it goes a little bit more than this on Lance,
31:00
Speaker 1: do the Cardinals have a decision to make in terms
31:03
Speaker 1: of maybe seeing what this guy can bring because there's
31:06
Speaker 1: nothing against Pis. I love that guy, and I know
31:09
Speaker 1: pictures love him. But maybe got a young guy who's
31:12
Speaker 1: who's calling from Memphis right now screaming I want to
31:16
Speaker 1: be there.
31:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, if you're going to, like you said,
31:20
Speaker 2: the main thing is going to be is so how
31:22
Speaker 2: much is herrare going to catch daily throughout the week?
31:25
Speaker 2: How many games and all that? Now, if you're going
31:27
Speaker 2: to catch you.
31:32
Speaker 3: Gone? We lost them Lance. He probably started to roll
31:37
Speaker 3: back off the top of the hill. But because in
31:39
Speaker 3: all transparency, this show worked because Lance parked at the
31:41
Speaker 3: top of the hill all his property, right, It didn't
31:44
Speaker 3: work when he was not at the top of the hill.
31:46
Speaker 3: All right, So I'll take that, sou Yes, Jim, I think,
31:51
Speaker 3: all first off, that's what you get for going to
31:53
Speaker 3: Lance Perst instead of me. You know, he'd have dropped
31:55
Speaker 3: in the middle of my answer. But you know, that's
31:57
Speaker 3: for an argument for another day. But I think that Yes,
32:01
Speaker 3: there's always guys in Triple A knocking on the door.
32:04
Speaker 3: That's their job. But the job at the big leagues
32:07
Speaker 3: is to win. And I think if pa Haes understands
32:12
Speaker 3: his job here right, like you need to be an
32:14
Speaker 3: above average defender and whatever offense you bring, which I
32:18
Speaker 3: think he can be an average hitter for a catcher,
32:21
Speaker 3: that's that's great, right. That's gonna be a tough decision though,
32:26
Speaker 3: And that's Jimmy Crooks's job is to make those decisions tough.
32:30
Speaker 3: That's pa Haes and Poso's job to make those decisions tough.
32:33
Speaker 3: And these are all grown men. They understand the goal
32:36
Speaker 3: is to win, uh, And they understand that players come up,
32:39
Speaker 3: players go down. So do I want to see positive
32:42
Speaker 3: or Poso go down? No? But I do think this
32:44
Speaker 3: situation needs to be right for Crooks to be up right, Like,
32:48
Speaker 3: it doesn't need to be Crooks comes up and he's
32:51
Speaker 3: catching once a week and dhing once or twice a
32:56
Speaker 3: week because there's just no abats because you have to
32:58
Speaker 3: have her in there, doesn't necessary really helping that instance.
33:01
Speaker 3: Plus we just talked to Ali Live about lefties doesn't
33:05
Speaker 3: necessarily help you in that instance. Have extra lefties. But
33:09
Speaker 3: their job, him's job, and and all in the staff
33:12
Speaker 3: is to win as many games possible. And if Jimmy
33:15
Speaker 3: Crooks is going to be a guy and he is
33:16
Speaker 3: going to make that team better, they're eventually going to
33:19
Speaker 3: do that. What that might mean you don't even carry
33:23
Speaker 3: three catchers? You know, if if you can have Crooks
33:25
Speaker 3: and Herrara and Herrera feels good back there, then ideally
33:28
Speaker 3: you would go back to a two catcher lineup and
33:31
Speaker 3: not have to have three because Poso might not get
33:34
Speaker 3: these consistent bats, he might not get the consistent playing time.
33:37
Speaker 3: With how good defensively Paes is and how good offensively
33:41
Speaker 3: Herrera it is, and I think how good defensively her
33:43
Speaker 3: Aeric can be as well.
33:45
Speaker 1: Dude, that's a great answer. Do you think that answer
33:48
Speaker 1: was better than the one Lens?
33:51
Speaker 3: No, I would never say that I was gonna No.
33:53
Speaker 3: I would never say that I was going to give
33:55
Speaker 3: a better answer than Lance. I don't. I like to
33:57
Speaker 3: be on Lance's good side, so do I.
34:00
Speaker 1: And Lance is great, always great for giving you a
34:03
Speaker 1: phone call. Of course, we're not technically advanced enough to
34:07
Speaker 1: just sort of integrate thing I thought I.
34:10
Speaker 3: Thought about putting them on speakerphone. I thought about putting
34:12
Speaker 3: on speakerphone, but I didn't know how that would come
34:14
Speaker 3: through uh here, and I wanted to make sure that
34:16
Speaker 3: I could. I didn't want to just start talking bad
34:18
Speaker 3: about you, Jim. He says he likes you, but you know,
34:21
Speaker 3: just he did say grow up to start, So I
34:23
Speaker 3: just wanted to make sure.
34:24
Speaker 1: No yours tomorrow because he has a foul metth Anyway, anyway,
34:27
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
34:30
Speaker 1: We'll see the next time, and hopefully that episode won't suck.