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04: Care When It Matters Most · Still Caring

0:03
Abby Fox (Host): Welcome to the Still Caring Podcast,
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presented by Stillwater Medical.
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Joe Akin (Host 2): Here, community is at the heart of healthcare.
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Katon Lunsford (Host 3): Through honest conversations and shared experiences
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Abby Fox (Host): we explore what it means to care for our health—
0:14
Joe Akin (Host 2): and each other.
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Katon Lunsford (Host 3): Because better health takes a
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village and you're part of ours.
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Joe Akin (Host): Welcome everyone.
0:20
I'm Joe Aiken, and I'm glad you're part of this conversation.
0:24
Today I'm joined by Vance Hunter.
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Many of you know Vance through his career in oil and gas and his involvement
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supporting Oklahoma State basketball.
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Today we're talking about something deeply personal, his journey with prostate
0:37
cancer And the many times that journey has brought him into the emergency
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department at Stillwater Medical.
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This episode is the first of a two part conversation.
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Today we hear the story from the patient's perspective from Vance's point of view.
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In our next episode, we'll sit down with his wife, Lori, to explore a
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perspective that's talked about far less often the experience of the caregiver.
1:01
So Vance, thank you so much for being here.
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We really appreciate taking the time to, to talk to us about, about your story.
1:09
Vance Hunter: Well, thanks for the invite.
1:11
Joe Akin (Host): You bet.
1:12
So if we would, let's go ahead and just start with your story.
1:14
So give listeners a snapshot of your path into oil and gas.
1:20
Vance Hunter: Well, I, I grew up in it, graduated in 85 from
1:23
OSU with a degree in petroleum.
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moved overseas, worked for Schlumberger and Halliburton, both
1:31
on an international basis and.
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I came home, was manager operations for a pipeline company, And then oh, 30
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years ago, wind up starting a business and became a contractor by accident.
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So now we're a pipeline, oil and gas pipeline construction company and,
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and do a little ranching on the side and OSU support on the other side.
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So.
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Joe Akin (Host): So I, Oklahoma State has been a big part of your life.
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What has that connection meant to you?
2:08
Vance Hunter: Oklahoma State gave me an opportunity to, pursue opportunities.
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opportunities I didn't know that existed.
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Turned dreams into realities.
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Just, changed our lives, changed my direction.
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it's been a, been a, a life changer in my, in my world.
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Joe Akin (Host): So I think what you're talking about is the, the
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NIL fundraising for men's basketball aspect of, of what you do with OSU.
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But what is it that drives you to stay invested with the young athletes?
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Vance Hunter: Well, it's, it's the entire university.
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We're, we're supporting the nursing school at the university.
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We support the, uh, hotel and restaurant management group.
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These athletics we're some pretty heavy supporters with them.
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What I find with the student athletes, they, put in a lot of time,
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their work weeks are 60, 80 hours.
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They have to be very DEET
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disciplined.
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They're away from home, very structured lifestyle and, and I have
3:23
an appreciation for the energy effort and, uh, dedication it takes for
3:30
those guys and girls to be successful.
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Joe Akin (Host): So clearly life was moving pretty fast for you, And then
3:39
unfortunately, cancer entered the picture.
3:42
So when did you first realize something was wrong?
3:46
Vance Hunter: first in 2018, annual physical I'd had a run in with a
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gallbladder that, about lost that battle.
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But,
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Once we got through it, I made Lori promise that I'd go get a annual physical,
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which I kept and everything was fine until it wasn't just an annual physical.
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There were no,
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there were no signs in anything.
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It just took a blood test.
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Next thing I know, I'm at a urologist.
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Next thing I know he is talking about cancer.
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Joe Akin (Host): So, It's been a, a, a long journey and it's continuing,
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obviously, but what has it been like to deal with from an emotional perspective?
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Vance Hunter: that's the tough one.
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you have no control.
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First-time in my life I haven't had control.
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you're put in positions that you need to make decisions and you don't know
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the ramifications of those decisions.
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there's some organizations that tell you what they wanna do to you.
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They don't necessarily tell you what is best for you.
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They don't tell you what's not best.
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They just give you the options and.
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It is, like I told one doctor, I'm an engineer.
5:01
I'm not a doctor.
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I don't know what's best for me.
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And, uh, thank goodness I had a, a doctor in Tulsa that offered advice.
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I still believe it was probably the best advice for me at the time,
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and that's the journey we chose.
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Joe Akin (Host): Your story's been different than a lot of other's
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that, that I've heard about.
5:27
You've had to deal with all the things that anyone else dealing with prostate
5:31
cancer has had to manage, but you've also had some very difficult complications.
5:39
So if you would help listeners understand the nature of the emergency
5:43
situations you, you've experienced.
5:46
Vance Hunter: Yeah.
5:47
Yeah.
5:47
So.
5:48
With the cancer, I have the prostate cancer.
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There's no secret to that.
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again, there were, there were no signs.
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I had cancer, my prostate wasn't enlarged.
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My PSA was just a little bit over five, I think it was.
6:04
Um,
6:07
And next thing I know, I'm being told my Gleason scores are very high.
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I'm looking at stage four.
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Uh, then it's the PEth scans.
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The CT scans, the hazard spread.
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and it took us several months to get to boundaries.
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We had no boundaries there.
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Once we hit a boundary, then there was, okay, now what do we do?
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which led to the proton therapy at Mayo.
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Outstanding
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performance by them.
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I think.
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I mean, they stopped a very aggressive
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cancer.
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and it seemed like they just pushed this magic button and it was gone.
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And for three years after, two years after, it was like.
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I just went into a room, laid down.
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They did what I did or did what they do, and, uh, everything's good.
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You're good to go.
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And as my PSA started increasing a little bit, Mayo got concerned
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and, uh, we went back and they had found that the cancer was back.
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They couldn't find it.
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They thought they knew where it was, but they couldn't identify it totally.
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Did some scans, used some new technology, And then we came back here
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and, OSU Medical Center was able to confirm it with some of their research
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equipment, which was a, a big deal.
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so we went on to some more treatments of maintaining it.
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haven't beat it, but we've been fighting the battle.
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one of the.
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repercussions of the proton therapy was, uh, after a time, some patient's,
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not all, I'm one of the unlucky ones, developed scar tissue in their bladder
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or near their prostate, and, uh, you start randomly bleeding internally.
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if the bleeds are minor, then you're able to pass the blood and move forward.
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No big deal.
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It'll usually stop.
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Uh, sometimes though they're large bleeds.
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There's a lot of clotting.
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And then you plug up And then the next thing you're, you know,
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you, you can't pass any urine.
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Your bladder swelling from both urine and, and blood, and you're in trouble.
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Uh, first-time it happened, didn't know what was happening.
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I wound up at St.
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Francis, which, uh, was a horrible experience.
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Took six hours to get seen.
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Took almost eight hours to get any action.
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then once they got me in, they, they did a great job.
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My doctor there did a great job, but that was a close call and
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I chose never to go back there.
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it happens randomly.
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Never know when it'll happen.
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I, it could be happening right now and I not know it.
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second time it happened, I just told Lori, I'm going to Stillwater.
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I don't know anything.
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I'm gonna go try it.
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What do I got to lose?
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man, that was game-changer.
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10 minutes I'm from checked in to on a bed to doctors and
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nurses and things happening.
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now I realize now that I wasn't necessarily lucky.
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It was just a random night where the emergency room wasn't covered up.
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'cause we all know that we're after our journey together.
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Now at the er.
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We'll, I guess we'll talk about that in a minute, but.
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The fact that I, I was, I got in so quick and, uh, they were
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doing what they needed to do.
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Uh, Dr.
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Maker was contacted, not my doctor, he's just the Stillwater Systems, SMC systems.
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One of the urologists.
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Great man, he came over.
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we just moved forward quick.
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They moved forward real quick.
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It was a kind of a tough journey.
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Spent three days in the hospital and I think it was three days, but we, he took
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good care of me, took great care of me.
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then he found out that I had a urologist in Tulsa, And that
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led to a, uh, an issue of.
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They didn't wanna treat me because I had a urologist.
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My urologist is with St.
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Francis.
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So, um, good luck rata maker and Dr.
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Hudson happened to know each other, so Dr.
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Hudson transferred me back over to Stillwater, to, to Dr.
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Maker, but the emergencies are, are because of the bladder filling And
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the pain that's associated with it.
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And then the, the process, once you get in the ar it's a,
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it's a pretty tough process.
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You, you've seen that And the, the thing that the body does to try to those,
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or my body, it's a, it's a, a journey.
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Joe Akin (Host): I won't even for a second to pretend to know what
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goes on in the mind of someone.
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One battling cancer.
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But I've always wondered, even after you've beaten cancer, so to speak,
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does that fear ever leave you?
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Vance Hunter: Oh, no, no, I'm on the clock.
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I feel like I'm on the clock.
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I live in with the bleeding.
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I live in two hour to four hour increments.
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with the cancer I live in 90 day to 60 day increments, depending on the blood work.
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the unknown is scary.
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the, constant burden of.
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Knowing you're on the clock,
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do you buy this?
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Do you invest in this?
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with the bleeding, I can't travel.
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I'm, I'm married to the, I have to stay within about an hour of Stillwater now.
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So do I, you know.
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You can't hold the family back.
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You can't hold Lori back in my case, it's a everyday burden, mentally.
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And it's exhausting.
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It's exhausting.
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And I'm better off than a lot of people, you know, so I, I, I'm lucky.
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I'm lucky in so many ways.
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But it's a burden not just on me, it's on the burden on everybody else.
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And like you say, I'm sure you guys will cover that.
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Joe Akin (Host): You kind of mentioned this, but your, your primary home's
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in Broken Arrow, but you've made a, a very intentional decision to stay
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close to Stillwater and you spend most of your time on your ranch just.
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Between Stillwater and and Tulsa.
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That's because even though you're cancer free, you've beaten it, you
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still have the after effects that are seriously impacting your life.
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So you still have clotting episodes that require the emergency room care.
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So why, and This is kind of a obvious question, but why has it
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been important for you to stay close to Stillwater in particular?
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Vance Hunter: Well, the, the Stillwater Medical Center is amazing.
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It's amazing, as a patient, the doctors that are associated with
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the the institution are amazing.
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the ER I would consider, I.
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Out of all the places I've been and all the ERs I've been in, it's
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the best er I've ever been to.
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And I believe that's right.
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why would I, waste my time?
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When I can have the best ride at home going somewhere else.
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Now I have tried heading over to our home in Eureka Springs.
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Stress is high if I do that, I know if something happens, I'm
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going to be in a, foreign hospital and it'll be starting over.
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But,
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It'll be enough to get me home.
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I have traveled out to the Mayo, pretty stressful.
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you know, we bought the ranch is my sanctuary.
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It's 35, 40 minutes from the er.
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it's about an hour from the house of Broken Arrow, and I spend oh.
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90% of my time here because I just never know when I need to
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get on four 12 and head into town.
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You know,
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Joe Akin (Host): You kind of touched on this a minute ago, Vance, but how much
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does it matter that the ER team knows you and understands your situation?
15:07
Vance Hunter: in my specific case,
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Now we don't have to talk about it.
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I'm in the system.
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They know when I come in, they know what the problem is and I
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visited the ER for other issues.
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But for the prostate And the problems, they're they're prepared and they've
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done a little extra training.
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So in my case, that training's.
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I understand helping other people that are in my situation.
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They now have better supplies.
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They have,
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some pretty unique training because my case got for a while pretty serious.
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Dr.
15:49
Maker And the urology department, I think they have stepped their
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game up in supporting the er, Dr.
15:59
Richardson And the ER running it.
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Unbelievable what they're doing in there with that staff.
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You know, uh, the nurses, when you watch a nurse, which you watched,
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that's how we met face to face.
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You sit in there and watch one of the episodes for a few hours.
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it's amazing.
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They're amazing on everything.
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They're just not on me.
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And
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what I find most in enlightening about our, our ER at Stillwater is
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everybody gets the same attention.
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They get the same effort.
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The staff is exceptional about taking a couple of three
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minutes to hear instead of just.
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Thinking they know, they're very proactive in the information gathering.
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And, uh, they've always listened to Lori when she's talked before
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they knew who we were, So, it.
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What makes me, I think, I don't know what, how to say, most
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comforting thing I, for us.
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Is the fact that we know not just us, but all patient's coming through those doors
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are gonna receive the same treatment.
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The concern I have is that staff is working above the,
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design limits for the institution.
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And
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as you know, we're, we're working hard to try to fix that.
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Joe Akin (Host): Yeah.
17:35
So one, one of the most powerful parts of your story is that you,
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didn't just experience care.
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You and Lori chose to support it.
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So how.
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Did the still strong emergency department education endowment come about?
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Vance Hunter: Well, it came about in part of what I, we already talked
17:54
about was the first-time I went in.
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They had to get Dr.
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Maker over there to help.
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There was, uh, not confusion.
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It was just what they understood in the emergency phase of the, the process
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was not handling our, my situation.
18:17
Dr.
18:18
Maker was there now.
18:19
They were handling the emergency quite well.
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But we weren't making headway to solve the situation.
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Dr.
18:30
Maker got involved.
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Then it was quickly changed.
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The nurse that was helping me, she was over the top of me for,
18:46
oh, it was in excess of six hours.
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she was exhausted And so was I.
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And she was even getting support and one person in there was supposed
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to be going off the clock and chose to stay to help integrity.
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Well, as this thing went on, And the more times I visited And the more
19:08
times people came in, I realized that.
19:12
The Stillwater Medical Center, And this was before I knew, knew the statistics
19:16
and, and how we were behind the game.
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In many ways, we're surviving, we're meeting goals, but we're,
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and I'm talking like I'm part of it, well, I guess I am now.
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I didn't understand all that.
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Then when I realized, hey, we have to be successful, our ER center in Stillwater.
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Has a huge area of coverage.
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I need it to be successful.
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For me, that's selfish, but that's a fact.
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I need Stillwater Medical Center ER to be successful every time I
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walk through that door, but they need to be for everybody else.
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Then when I started hearing stories and started beating people and understanding
20:05
the encroachment on our talent from other institutions, it almost became
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just like the NIL for college athletics.
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How do we obtain the talent?
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How do we retain the talent and how do we educate our talent?
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And one of the things that.
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Through conversation with you and, and many of the nurses and uh, and
20:29
some of the doctors, was if we could enhance training and education inside
20:40
our facility with our existing staff.
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That would relieve and provide opportunity that might help retain, and
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it would also definitely help educate.
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So that was the first one.
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Let's, see what we can do.
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And that, that's what started the process.
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And, And the steel strong.
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Joe Akin (Host): So the, the, endowment that you guys set up really is designed
21:08
for recruitment and retention of the staff through education and, it's in play.
21:15
Now, we, we are at.
21:16
Actively using it.
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But for you guys, why did you feel like investing in staff education particularly,
21:27
why was that important to you guys?
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Vance Hunter: Well, it's, it's, uh.
21:30
Uh, the building's meaningless.
21:34
We can build the biggest hospital in the world right there if we
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don't staff it with quality people.
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and there's a shortage in the medical field and there will be, 'cause there's
21:47
more of us gray haired people running around now than there ever has been.
21:50
And there's gonna be more.
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I mean, and, And the, you know.
21:55
Our population in Stillwater in a one week can grow by what?
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15 or 20,000.
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we're in a, we're in a kind of a, a unique situation.
22:09
A lot of colleges that are in big cities, they can divert that, workload.
22:13
We can't, we're it the hospital's, it SMCs it.
22:18
So if we can retain through training.
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An opportunity.
22:24
Then we're keeping experience inside our units.
22:30
the ER is the one we chose.
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the Nick unit's, another one out there, the new cancer center.
22:37
There's people invested in that.
22:38
That was just where we invested our efforts.
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Now, we also, at the same time are investing in the education
22:47
at OSU in the nursing program.
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We've set up a, a deal over there that will help OSU nursing school still
22:58
working through some of the details because my hope is the money that's used
23:03
from that will be used to help potential ER nurses coming into SMC because.
23:14
With the expansion that will have to take place It's not if it's when we
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will have to have people coming in And we need youth into emergency services.
23:31
Fact, that's just fact.
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Joe Akin (Host): Yeah.
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Agreed.
23:35
So go.
23:36
Going back to you, how has cancer changed how you think about time?
23:43
Well, I guess it's more how has it changed how you think about life?
23:49
Vance Hunter: Ooh, that's a big one.
23:51
That's a big one.
23:52
Uh, time.
23:55
Time is finite.
23:57
I saw a, a drawing once of a ladder going up into clouds, into heaven, and
24:08
there was a line, no names, just a line.
24:11
when you don't have a
24:15
terminal illness,
24:18
that time function isn't necessarily,
24:23
at the forefront when you do,
24:27
Time becomes very important.
24:31
Quality time, productivity time.
24:36
the nonsense meter goes to zero.
24:39
I have no time for wasting on nonsense.
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I just don't either with a situation with people.
24:49
almost have to watch myself sometimes because I don't wanna be
24:53
impatient, but I just feel like I don't have time to waste on noise.
25:03
you know, in my world it's always, I've found that any decision I make
25:07
today, I won't know if it's a good decision in five years till five years.
25:13
business, financial, what investment, whatever.
25:19
Well, I don't know if I have five years now.
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In reality, nobody knows if they have five years, but I've got this little
25:26
bug inside me that's chewing away, so I don't have time not to make decisions.
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I have to make those, whatever it is.
25:40
I mean it, I mean, even.
25:42
Like buying a new pickup?
25:45
Am I wasting potential money for the estate?
25:49
should I go get a new one?
25:50
Should I not?
25:51
Should I get a tractor?
25:52
Should I do this?
25:54
There's it, it is just a, a mind game that I haven't conquered.
26:01
It's a challenge.
26:02
It's a challenge, but again, I'm lucky I'm compared to a lot of people.
26:06
I mean, what, 2018 to now?
26:09
Eight years.
26:11
That's pretty good.
26:13
I mean, I'd like it to be 28 years at some point.
26:18
I've got older grandkids, got younger grandkids, wanted
26:22
dreams to like everybody else.
26:25
So it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough journey.
26:28
Tough journey.
26:29
Joe Akin (Host): I'd say thankfully, now you're having many more
26:32
good days than bad days, but.
26:35
When you're having one of those hard times, what, what is it that gives you the
26:41
strength to work through those hard days?
26:44
Vance Hunter: Well, you don't have a choice.
26:46
It's, what it is, Who thinks they're ever gonna be in a car wreck?
26:52
Who thought we would ever have the fires in Stillwater that
26:54
would affect so many lives?
26:58
That's why we had the fire department.
27:00
Well, they couldn't, they were overwhelmed.
27:02
They didn't fail.
27:03
They were overwhelmed.
27:05
you're never ready as a person to become a statistic.
27:09
drug abuse, you know, substance abuse.
27:13
You never think you're gonna be a family that's affected by that.
27:16
You never think you're gonna be affected by cancer.
27:19
You're never gonna, um, you know, you're people that have a heart attack.
27:24
Um,
27:25
they didn't think it was coming.
27:27
That's not gonna happen to me.
27:29
you know, my gallbladder situation that we discussed with Lori, I went in for a
27:34
simple outpatient gallbladder surgery, and I wound up on life support for
27:39
12 days and checked out once I coded.
27:45
But that story, I don't know what happened.
27:47
I wasn't, I wasn't there.
27:48
That was Lori's, that's Lori's journey, but it's, it's that, it's a burden.
27:55
I mean, it's just that.
27:57
It's the slap in the face of mortality, I guess.
28:02
Joe Akin (Host): Vance, we close every episode with what
28:06
we call a challenge to care,
28:08
and because of everything you've been through and are going through.
28:12
What is one thing you wish more people understood about walking
28:17
alongside someone facing cancer?
28:21
Vance Hunter: Well,
28:21
Lori's been unbelievable.
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She's been there the entire journey.
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you know, Larry Reese, he's been a, a solid resource because
28:35
he's been on the journey.
28:37
but for the people that have the disease.
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They know what's going on in your head.
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Now, it may be a different type, it may be something else, but
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they're, they're the ones that are carrying the burden of it's me.
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the people that don't have the cancer but are going along the journey,
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they have a different journey.
28:59
They don't know how you feel inside.
29:02
No matter what you say, they don't know, things that might sound
29:06
negative are you're not being negative, you're just expressing
29:13
something that you need to express.
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for me, the scans scare me.
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I mean, they just, they just destroy my energy.
29:25
Because what if, because I know the seeds are planted, You know,
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the person walking along saying, oh, there's nothing to worry about.
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Oh no, there is something to worry about for me.
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I'm worried about it.
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Now, they may be worried too.
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So then there's a burden on them.
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So it's, patience I guess I would have to say would be the, biggest thing because
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the emotions that you deal with are in stages, you know, it's like, what is it?
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There's five stages to dealing with death.
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There's almost those same five dealing with the terminal illness.
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Except you're the one dealing with it, because you haven't gone to
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that other phase yet, You know, which I, I'm not looking forward to
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that, but, You know, it's what I'm saying there, that that's why you,
30:19
in our conversation we had earlier,
30:24
You know, a few days ago was, I can't speak for that person.
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I don't know that journey.
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I haven't walked that.
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I, I, I haven't been in those shoes.
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the people that have been on my journey,
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they understand their journey.
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I understand mine, but there's a little bit of a, a commonality of
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the mental game.
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I just call it the mental game.
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I don't know what the.
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Technical thing.
30:52
It is of it, but it's the mental game and it's, it's the
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challenge of keeping spirits up.
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I try, the busier I stay,
31:02
the better for me.
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Downtime's hard.
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I need to, I have to keep in motion.
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So,
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OSU working with to help them.
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Trying to help.
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SMC, that's motion.
31:14
The ranch is motion.
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there, you know, we tried to, I tried to do quite a few things.
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I think the other thing I would say is the people walking along,
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with their patient,
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especially in the Steelwater area.
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I think we, I think
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if you could just take some time to think about.
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What you can do to help our medical support teams in our area.
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I've talked to a lot of people and they say, oh, well insurance paying
31:54
for that and it costs this much.
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Yeah, it costs a lot of money.
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It cost a hell of a lot of money.
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But I would rather put a lot of money into their time.
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So we have the best of the best in our area, and I, I think.
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I, wished I had invested in the institution And the ER much earlier,
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a little at a time, much earlier.
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Because over time I think that would've helped more.
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cause we're addressing problems.
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Now we're almost to the point.
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We might be preventing some issues, but we could have been.
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If, if other people joined us, we could turn it from,
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addressing issues to being proactive, not reactive, I should say.
32:58
Joe Akin (Host): Vance.
33:00
Sincerely, thank you for sharing.
33:02
Your story, your experience really does remind all of us that, you know,
33:09
life is a journey and there are lots of players in our journey that have impact
33:15
impacts on our lives, and it takes a.
33:19
It truly takes a, a community, a caring community, to help us through
33:25
these experiences, to live our lives.
33:27
And it just means so much to have someone like you come on and be open enough to
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tell us your story and, and be vulnerable.
33:35
It will make a difference And we very much appreciate it.
33:40
And then to our listeners, thank you for.
33:43
Listening.
33:44
We hope that you will listen to us again whenever we talk to Lori about the often
33:50
overlooked experience of the caregivers, because I do think That is something
33:54
that the story of and from a caregiver.
33:59
We've all been there.
34:00
We've all been there.
34:01
N not as many people has been in your physician Vance, but for every one patient
34:06
going through something like you're going through, there are so many other
34:09
lives impacted on that caregiver side.
34:12
So we're very, very excited that Lori is open to talking to us about that, and
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I hope that, that everybody will, will come back and see what she has to say.
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So thank you very much.
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Vance Hunter: Hey Joe, appreciate you.
34:24
Like always.
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Let's keep grinding away.
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Let's keep building this thing.
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We'll get there.
34:29
Joe Akin (Host): Sounds good.
34:30
Thanks fans.
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Vance Hunter: Appreciate y'all.