Latest / Business Roundtable / Neurodivergent Leadership, ADHD, and AI: Designing Systems That Actually Work

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Neurodivergent Leadership, ADHD, and AI: Designing Systems That Actually Work · Business Roundtable

0:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Round Pable podcast. I'm your host,
0:19
Speaker 1: David Carr. What we got our music? Getting so excited
0:21
Speaker 1: out there, Glad to have you here today. I am
0:25
Speaker 1: the founder of Stuart your Business bringing people together to
0:28
Speaker 1: accomplish great things. And we have another great guest here
0:31
Speaker 1: on the Business Around People podcast, Sarah Gale. I'm super
0:34
Speaker 1: excited to have Sarah because you're gonna get to know
0:36
Speaker 1: a little bit more about her. She is the founder
0:38
Speaker 1: of every Kind Strategies, also a fellow Giant Guide as
0:41
Speaker 1: I am, and she really helps mission driven leaders in
0:44
Speaker 1: teams grow with clarity, connection and kindness, which is very important.
0:49
Speaker 1: And particularly I want to have Sarah on here because
0:51
Speaker 1: of her work that she's been doing with neurodivergent leaders,
0:54
Speaker 1: those that are dealing with ADHD like me, and even
0:58
Speaker 1: how AI can help you in that journey. So before
1:01
Speaker 1: we get into that, I just want to say thank
1:03
Speaker 1: you Sarah for being here as a guest. It's a
1:05
Speaker 1: real pleasure because you're a friend and then one of
1:08
Speaker 1: a colleague and just really grateful to have you here.
1:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. It's exciting.
1:14
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely absolutely, Sarah. I know you just launched your
1:18
Speaker 1: own podcasts recently, so we're going to put the show
1:20
Speaker 1: notes so you guys can check that out as well.
1:23
Speaker 1: And Sarah and I are connected on LinkedIn and other things.
1:26
Speaker 1: But Sarah, I loved for before we get kind of
1:28
Speaker 1: into the meat of the subject today, get into your background,
1:32
Speaker 1: because I think it's really important about where your journey
1:35
Speaker 1: was and how you've come to this place of really
1:39
Speaker 1: you know, the founder of er Kind Strategies and why
1:41
Speaker 1: you do what you do today and sech if you could,
1:44
Speaker 1: in my mind, just taking a few minutes to walk
1:46
Speaker 1: our listeners through your personal journey, yeah, I.
1:50
Speaker 2: Would love to thank you for I mean, like just
1:52
Speaker 2: just having the opportunity to kind of share your roadmap
1:56
Speaker 2: along the way is always fun because someone might be like,
1:59
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, me too. Yeah. So when let's just
2:03
Speaker 2: go back to kind of college, right, So in college
2:08
Speaker 2: I started with you know, I was a NCAA athlete.
2:14
Speaker 2: I was blessed enough to play golf in college at
2:17
Speaker 2: the collegiate level. I came from a small school and
2:22
Speaker 2: had straight a's. And then college happened with all of
2:27
Speaker 2: the things to potentially distract someone, right, and it was
2:33
Speaker 2: a situation that kind of like all of these things
2:35
Speaker 2: had at once. So that's when I really started paying
2:38
Speaker 2: attention to like is it me or is something wrong
2:43
Speaker 2: with the system. Like I got into my math classes.
2:47
Speaker 2: Everything else was fine, got into my math classes, and
2:50
Speaker 2: because of the sport that I played, golf, we were
2:53
Speaker 2: absent from class often, and so things started stacking up
2:56
Speaker 2: for me, and I failed my college course, the first
3:01
Speaker 2: failure ever. I've never failed a class before. And then
3:05
Speaker 2: I was like, no, that was my bad. Let me
3:09
Speaker 2: take it again with the same professor, because like, we
3:11
Speaker 2: can do this. I was going to fail that semester
3:14
Speaker 2: as well. So two semesters in a row fail. I
3:18
Speaker 2: withdrew that time, took a third semester in a row
3:21
Speaker 2: because I'm determined and disciplined and I can do this right,
3:25
Speaker 2: and so this will all come come into play with
3:28
Speaker 2: how neurodivergent folks work, right, So I was determined to
3:31
Speaker 2: prove that I could beat this math class. Well, I
3:37
Speaker 2: failed it again, and then I was taken to the
3:41
Speaker 2: ADHD testing lab by my parents because they're like, we
3:46
Speaker 2: can't pay for this. A fourth semester in a row,
3:49
Speaker 2: and I was told that I did not have ADHD.
3:52
Speaker 2: I was told that, oh, she's very intelligent, but she's
3:57
Speaker 2: just bored in hindsight. Right, That's exactly what ADHD is like.
4:03
Speaker 2: Your brain is going everywhere all the time because you
4:07
Speaker 2: have so many thoughts happening simultaneously, and if you're in
4:12
Speaker 2: a subject, because ADHD ers neurodivergent folks, we are short
4:17
Speaker 2: on dopamine, so we like things that are exciting, that
4:20
Speaker 2: are new. And I did not find math that interesting,
4:26
Speaker 2: and so it didn't give my brain the dopamine hit
4:28
Speaker 2: that I needed. And yeah, and so what I ended
4:32
Speaker 2: up doing is I switched to a different professor. I
4:37
Speaker 2: was able to take notes, and I passed with a beat,
4:39
Speaker 2: the exact same subject matter, the exact same it's math.
4:44
Speaker 2: It didn't change between professors, the approach did. The system did.
4:50
Speaker 2: So it took me being late diagnosed. You know, I
4:55
Speaker 2: just turned thirty seven last week, and so it took me.
4:58
Speaker 2: I've been diagnosed for two years. So all that time
5:02
Speaker 2: in between was me trying to figure out what is wrong,
5:06
Speaker 2: Like why am I not getting it? Or why this
5:09
Speaker 2: makes so much sense to me? Why are my co
5:12
Speaker 2: workers finding it hard to comprehend what I'm saying? Here
5:17
Speaker 2: and looking back on it, I girl, it's been there
5:21
Speaker 2: the whole time, you know. And so I have experience
5:26
Speaker 2: in risk management because I'm very high justice. I work
5:32
Speaker 2: justice and making sure people are protected and taken care of.
5:36
Speaker 2: And then I was an event management in government and
5:40
Speaker 2: that was a really great opportunity to make sure that
5:43
Speaker 2: I could build out infrastructure that brought me to communities.
5:48
Speaker 2: I got to work with the same people that put
5:50
Speaker 2: on the Super Bowl halftime show and the Rolls Bowl
5:53
Speaker 2: Parade and the Olympics. I mean, such an incredible time.
5:58
Speaker 2: And again, the all of the things to consider in
6:02
Speaker 2: festival and event management was perfect for an order divergent
6:07
Speaker 2: brain hit right, so COVID hit people weren't having parties outside.
6:14
Speaker 2: Everything shut down. I shifted into policy work communications. I
6:20
Speaker 2: did work with the White House in Congress I had.
6:22
Speaker 2: That was an incredible opportunity to work on behalf of
6:26
Speaker 2: American Indians and Alaska Natives. And so through all of that,
6:31
Speaker 2: I was always working hard, always working long hours. And
6:35
Speaker 2: then my husband and I decided let's start our family.
6:40
Speaker 2: It's time. And the second I realized I was responsible
6:46
Speaker 2: for another human being, I was like, I need to
6:50
Speaker 2: do my own thing, and so I took all of
6:53
Speaker 2: that experience, the good, the bad, the ugly of working
6:57
Speaker 2: within corporate systems, government system independent contractor systems, corporate and thought,
7:05
Speaker 2: how can I help teams grow do right by people
7:10
Speaker 2: in a way that both supports profitability and relational intelligence.
7:16
Speaker 2: So that is the core of ever kind strategies as
7:20
Speaker 2: building systems that help lead to what we what we
7:24
Speaker 2: want to reach to the end, which is you know
7:27
Speaker 2: the goals.
7:28
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, well, I love there's so much there. I'm
7:31
Speaker 1: excited to unpack this with you, Sarah today. It's interesting
7:34
Speaker 1: you said this event stuff because you just triggered me.
7:36
Speaker 1: For those that don't know, I ran a DJ business
7:39
Speaker 1: for many years and I love that, so I could
7:43
Speaker 1: totally understand from coming from somebody that has self diagnosed
7:47
Speaker 1: ADHD at least at some level you know where and
7:52
Speaker 1: that and the way our brains work, Like you said
7:54
Speaker 1: that dopamine, you know, we're trying to make up for
7:57
Speaker 1: that dopamine and how this where people are attracted to
8:01
Speaker 1: certain things in those dynamics. So it makes a lot
8:04
Speaker 1: of sense as you're sharing that, Sarah. But I'm I'm
8:07
Speaker 1: really encouraged by you are taking all these different experiences
8:10
Speaker 1: now and putting in this approach and making it your
8:14
Speaker 1: own and finding and helping people where they're at. And
8:17
Speaker 1: I really appreciate. That's why I love having you on
8:18
Speaker 1: the podcast because for those that are listening, there's a
8:21
Speaker 1: whole great community of giant guys. Many of us are
8:24
Speaker 1: always looking and collaborating with each other and like how
8:26
Speaker 1: do we help clients, how to reach more people? And
8:29
Speaker 1: to me, Sarah is one of those people that I say,
8:31
Speaker 1: I align with her. I see where she's coming from.
8:33
Speaker 1: And by the way, go and check out our podcast
8:36
Speaker 1: coecking with our on LinkedIn. She gets some great posts
8:38
Speaker 1: there and is really out there for helping people, when
8:45
Speaker 1: helping people feel successful in life, and I feel like
8:47
Speaker 1: we need that more than ever. Sarah, and I, so
8:50
Speaker 1: I would ask you the question here, like, so you
8:52
Speaker 1: didn't know you had ADHD obviously your parents said hey,
8:55
Speaker 1: come take this. I think there's a lot of people
8:57
Speaker 1: that don't know how to put the words on it. Now.
8:58
Speaker 1: Other people like to throw a label around and they
9:00
Speaker 1: may or may not be accurate. But what would you
9:02
Speaker 1: say that we can start to pick out, like maybe
9:08
Speaker 1: Trent and then you mentioned some of them but I
9:09
Speaker 1: want people to listen to they can start to like say,
9:12
Speaker 1: is this something I'm struggling with? You said you went
9:14
Speaker 1: through classes, You're like, I'm gonna make through it, and
9:15
Speaker 1: it didn't work, Like, and I think people keep trying
9:19
Speaker 1: the same things, you know, and they're not getting the results. Right,
9:21
Speaker 1: But that's the definition of insanity, right. We just keep
9:23
Speaker 1: doing the same thing over and over and it doesn't
9:25
Speaker 1: get uswhere. But we feel like, well, I don't know
9:27
Speaker 1: what else to do, So could you walk us through
9:29
Speaker 1: a little bit of like what do you see like
9:31
Speaker 1: how to help people start to look for these signs?
9:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean so much of it
9:37
Speaker 2: came from I started with healing myself. I went through
9:42
Speaker 2: some significant trauma in my late twenties, and I was
9:45
Speaker 2: determined to design the kind of life that I wanted
9:49
Speaker 2: and not just step into one that I thought was recommended.
9:53
Speaker 2: You know. So it's not our lives aren't a perfect
9:58
Speaker 2: chart in graph Like. Up until that point, I had
10:01
Speaker 2: checked all the boxes and progressed, you know, succeeded at
10:06
Speaker 2: each one, you know. But as I looked back and
10:09
Speaker 2: that this event kind of made my world implode, I thought, Okay,
10:16
Speaker 2: who am I, Where do I want to go? What
10:20
Speaker 2: kind of life do I want to experience for myself?
10:23
Speaker 2: And how do I want to interact with the people
10:25
Speaker 2: around me that might be going through some really, really
10:28
Speaker 2: hard stuff and through that journey. I'm a huge believer
10:33
Speaker 2: in neuroscience. If the pros have already done the work
10:37
Speaker 2: and research for you, connect with them and believe them.
10:41
Speaker 2: If enough of them say the same thing, you know
10:44
Speaker 2: and so always do your research, always make sure it's
10:48
Speaker 2: a credible source. But for me, I did connect with
10:52
Speaker 2: a good counselor a good therapist, and I requested neurologically
10:57
Speaker 2: based science based counseling, because again, intellectually, I can figure
11:04
Speaker 2: stuff out by myself. I can figure out why I'm
11:07
Speaker 2: feeling creuddy one day, and I can find motivation to
11:10
Speaker 2: do the next thing. But what I need is to
11:12
Speaker 2: get beyond that kind of intellectual wall that we can
11:17
Speaker 2: build sometimes. And it took me connecting emotionally to even
11:21
Speaker 2: get to the point of maybe others don't experience the
11:27
Speaker 2: world the same way I do. And a lot of that,
11:31
Speaker 2: I'm really grateful that I was blessed and not marginalized
11:36
Speaker 2: along the way as a neurodivergent person, because that happens often. Yeah,
11:41
Speaker 2: But I think starting with healing, starting with really reflecting
11:45
Speaker 2: on what is going to make me whole as a
11:48
Speaker 2: person is kind of the first step. And in that
11:52
Speaker 2: I discovered that I was neurodivergent, you know. And so
11:56
Speaker 2: for me, it's like I wasn't seeking a diagnosis. I
11:59
Speaker 2: was and trying to answer the question of like, what's
12:03
Speaker 2: wrong with me? Because I'm a guardian pioneer and for
12:07
Speaker 2: those of you who are familiar with diet language, confidence
12:09
Speaker 2: is not an issue most of the time for us.
12:13
Speaker 2: So my issue was always with these systems are broken.
12:16
Speaker 2: I mean since middle school I have pointed to broken systems,
12:20
Speaker 2: and through the lens of a narrative virgent person, that
12:23
Speaker 2: makes total sense that I would find things that are
12:26
Speaker 2: broken and want to fix them. So I think starting
12:30
Speaker 2: with what is going to make you whole, what's going
12:34
Speaker 2: to bring you the most joy? What? Purpose is a
12:38
Speaker 2: big word, and purpose can change. But I think finding
12:43
Speaker 2: your values start there, and then if things are hindering
12:47
Speaker 2: you to reach your values, then start looking clinically, then
12:53
Speaker 2: start looking in a way that's like could it be
12:58
Speaker 2: this now? Adhd Ors specifically, they if you see yourself
13:04
Speaker 2: being late for things constantly and you don't I swear
13:10
Speaker 2: it was fifteen till two minutes ago, and then all
13:15
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you're late. You know, if that's some
13:18
Speaker 2: I think looking for patterns, things that have always been present.
13:22
Speaker 2: Because neurodivergence is often DNA based, it's genetic. Now, there
13:30
Speaker 2: is some talk that neurodivergence can be brought on by
13:33
Speaker 2: traumatic events because it can rewire your brains in a
13:36
Speaker 2: way that causes you to cope. Similarly, but if you
13:42
Speaker 2: look at things like sensory issues, that's something. If you
13:46
Speaker 2: are really sensitive to sound, or if you just if
13:50
Speaker 2: you have to squint to focus on your work, if
13:52
Speaker 2: there's a conversation happening behind you, you might be neurodivergent.
13:58
Speaker 2: If you find yourself being able to succeed in completing
14:04
Speaker 2: your tasks with music playing, either in the room or
14:08
Speaker 2: in your headphones, you could have ADHD Because those things
14:14
Speaker 2: it occupies a part of your brain to let a
14:17
Speaker 2: passive part to let you focus. It kind of quiets
14:20
Speaker 2: the rest of your brain to let you focus. So
14:22
Speaker 2: I mean, those were kind of the things that stood
14:24
Speaker 2: out for me as I started recognizing these patterns. Is
14:28
Speaker 2: I got so much more done if no one talked
14:33
Speaker 2: to me. And that brings up a good point like
14:38
Speaker 2: talking about you know, there's a lot of neurotypical folks
14:42
Speaker 2: that don't understand the intensity of what neurodivergent people experience.
14:49
Speaker 2: So what we need as neurodivergent people is the same
14:54
Speaker 2: thing that neurotypical people need. It's a human need of
14:58
Speaker 2: need rest. We need calm environments to get things done
15:03
Speaker 2: and be productive. We need you know, hydration, good food,
15:09
Speaker 2: like all of these things. Those are human things, yep.
15:13
Speaker 2: But neurodivergent people experience things disruption, frustration more intensely, and
15:22
Speaker 2: so our recovery time from experiencing those really intense emotions,
15:28
Speaker 2: which is why healing and focusing on the emotion not
15:31
Speaker 2: the intellect helped me. Really gave me permission to recover
15:37
Speaker 2: a little bit longer and not view it is laziness
15:40
Speaker 2: or get frustrated at myself for it. So I think
15:43
Speaker 2: those were kind of my starting points.
15:45
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so great. I got some follow up questions
15:49
Speaker 1: for you here, Sarah. So for those of you that
15:51
Speaker 1: haven't done the five voices assessment, I'll put a link
15:54
Speaker 1: in the chat here and you can check it out.
15:58
Speaker 1: So Sarah Guardian a pioneer, and then I'm a connector
16:01
Speaker 1: creative pioneer. So with the nurture and the guardian guardian
16:07
Speaker 1: being the last. But I want to know, I wanted
16:09
Speaker 1: the listeners to hear this because the work that Sarah
16:11
Speaker 1: has done on herself. I love this because I'm a connector,
16:15
Speaker 1: which is very different than a guardian pioneer as you guys,
16:19
Speaker 1: even if you don't know that, there's very different. But
16:21
Speaker 1: here's what I want to say. Sarah is a good
16:24
Speaker 1: users as a guardian voice in a way like preparing
16:27
Speaker 1: for this podcast, for example, Sarah, you were great. You're
16:28
Speaker 1: being proactive. You like you gave me information, You sent
16:32
Speaker 1: me stuff ahead of time, which is very guardian based
16:34
Speaker 1: and I appreciate that. But you did it in a
16:36
Speaker 1: very kind way, in a way that is not like
16:41
Speaker 1: you need to have this information or you know what
16:42
Speaker 1: I mean. There's a level of understanding and appreciation, which
16:45
Speaker 1: I think it comes with the work you're doing. That's
16:47
Speaker 1: why I want the listeners here. You've been doing this
16:49
Speaker 1: work on yourself and it shows up in the way
16:52
Speaker 1: that you treat other people. The way you relate to
16:55
Speaker 1: other folks. And I think that's very, very powerful, and
16:57
Speaker 1: I want to encourage people as you're listening to say, Sarah,
17:00
Speaker 1: she's lived this out and I've observed it in her
17:03
Speaker 1: personally of how she's doing this and how much it
17:06
Speaker 1: can be changed, even if it's late diagnose ADHD or
17:09
Speaker 1: wherever you're at in this place, right, Sarah, it's it's
17:12
Speaker 1: it can you can start to improve your life. And
17:14
Speaker 1: I would say as you learned this, probably yes, I
17:16
Speaker 1: would say there's a higher recovery. But over time, does
17:19
Speaker 1: it get easier. I mean in the sense of understanding
17:21
Speaker 1: at least what's going on, right, so you're not like
17:23
Speaker 1: feeling like victim of circumstance.
17:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. I mean, recognizing reality is
17:31
Speaker 2: going to help you move through it faster than denying
17:35
Speaker 2: the fact that it's happening at all and continuing to
17:38
Speaker 2: be frustrated. Like you know, it's like anything like if
17:41
Speaker 2: you if you sprain your ankle and you just keep
17:44
Speaker 2: walking on it, it's not going to get better. But
17:47
Speaker 2: if like, oh iy A busted my ankle, let me
17:51
Speaker 2: elevate this thing and put some eyes on it, right,
17:53
Speaker 2: you can get back to whatever you were doing a
17:55
Speaker 2: little bit quicker then being in denial and just continuing
17:58
Speaker 2: to harm yourself. So that's what again, why kindness, both
18:01
Speaker 2: to yourself and those around you is such a huge
18:04
Speaker 2: priority for me, And I want to clarify Kindness is
18:07
Speaker 2: not niceness, Kindness is honest. Kindness can bring challenge, but
18:12
Speaker 2: you're always looking for the greater good of everyone involved.
18:15
Speaker 1: So I love that. No, I love that, and I
18:18
Speaker 1: as recovering nice guy cercently of being a connector, Sarah. Nos.
18:23
Speaker 1: Connectors are very big on on being people pleasing and
18:26
Speaker 1: very high support, low challenge to our own detriment. Many
18:31
Speaker 1: times where I would say, Sarah, you're naturally challenging, like
18:34
Speaker 1: you said you earlier, asking all the questions and then
18:36
Speaker 1: maybe I'll throw some support your way at the in
18:38
Speaker 1: the back end. But you know, but that is really
18:42
Speaker 1: important to understand. I want one question I want to have, Sarah,
18:44
Speaker 1: And for those of you that haven't done the Five Voices,
18:46
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit, I want you to dig into
18:49
Speaker 1: that but listening. But Sarah, when you look at neurodivergence,
18:53
Speaker 1: just does that show up just for the listeners? Does
18:56
Speaker 1: that show up in anyone's voice, or is it spread
18:58
Speaker 1: across the spectrum of all the diferent voices. What does
19:01
Speaker 1: that look like. I'm just curious in your experience.
19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna come out all kinds of ways.
19:06
Speaker 2: Because a good friend of mine said, if you have
19:09
Speaker 2: met one neurodivergent person, you've met one neurodivergent person, because
19:16
Speaker 2: the the terminology of it being a spectrum is so real,
19:20
Speaker 2: and like the things that we focus on and the
19:22
Speaker 2: things that catch our interest and the things that affect
19:25
Speaker 2: us negatively and positively, it comes out all kinds of ways. Now,
19:29
Speaker 2: I do have a theory that a lot of guardians
19:33
Speaker 2: may be neurodivergent because we like a lot of structure
19:37
Speaker 2: and that makes us feel peace on the inside. We
19:40
Speaker 2: are kind of we're skewed towards justice and truth and
19:45
Speaker 2: so there are some but it's just a theory. Don't
19:48
Speaker 2: quote me on it. But yeah, I mean I've I've
19:52
Speaker 2: seen all kinds. And the thing is too, with any
19:55
Speaker 2: type of personality assessment, I always like to stress like
19:58
Speaker 2: it's a starting point. It is not a box for
20:01
Speaker 2: to put you in. It's somewhere where you can begin
20:05
Speaker 2: the journey of learning who you are, what matters most
20:09
Speaker 2: to you, what may trigger you into your fight, flight, fawn, freeze,
20:14
Speaker 2: whatever is going on, and then you can grow from that.
20:18
Speaker 2: So again, I've had people that their voice orders have
20:22
Speaker 2: shifted with their priorities, major events have changed voice orders.
20:28
Speaker 2: But what we what matters most is that your values
20:32
Speaker 2: are your anchor, and your behavior is kind of the
20:35
Speaker 2: buoy at the top.
20:36
Speaker 1: That shifts with your Yeah yeah.
20:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
20:40
Speaker 1: So that's what I've seen you said, and I believe
20:44
Speaker 1: with you. And then you said that this neurodiversion, this idea,
20:47
Speaker 1: it's it's it's been kind of baked into our DNA,
20:49
Speaker 1: if you will. It's like it's like I'm a man,
20:52
Speaker 1: you're a woman. That doesn't change in the sense of
20:56
Speaker 1: how we're biologically created. But what I hear you saying
21:01
Speaker 1: is we can adjust our behavior, maybe for the good,
21:05
Speaker 1: maybe for the bad, depending on the circumstances. Right of
21:09
Speaker 1: trying to be more like this. Now, if it's true,
21:12
Speaker 1: like you said, in alignment with our values, that that's
21:14
Speaker 1: going to be, we'll be in alignment and congruent. But
21:17
Speaker 1: if we're not, speak a little bit to that of
21:19
Speaker 1: the people that are, haven't really they can't really tell
21:23
Speaker 1: you totally their values, or if they don't, if they
21:28
Speaker 1: kind of identify their value Sarah, but they don't actually
21:31
Speaker 1: value their values. They don't have value who they are.
21:34
Speaker 1: So they've said, but I don't think it's worth worthy.
21:37
Speaker 1: I don't think it is. So talk a little bit
21:38
Speaker 1: about that journey of getting an alignment.
21:43
Speaker 2: Oh well, negative self talk is the first way to
21:47
Speaker 2: really tick me off. Because because we are all incredible masterpieces,
21:55
Speaker 2: like we are so complex, no matter what you think
21:58
Speaker 2: you've accomplished, you've probably accomplished more. No matter what impact
22:03
Speaker 2: you think you've had, you've probably had a bigger one.
22:08
Speaker 2: So much of the good you put out into the
22:10
Speaker 2: world never comes back to you in a way that's tangible.
22:14
Speaker 2: So you have to talk about yourself well and positively,
22:19
Speaker 2: even if you don't really believe it at first, because
22:22
Speaker 2: you can hear you in the things you say to
22:26
Speaker 2: yourself about yourself. And that's step one, is making sure
22:32
Speaker 2: that you know how incredibly important you are. Period. The
22:36
Speaker 2: value you bring is not in what you produce, it's
22:40
Speaker 2: in who you are inherently, the experiences you have, things
22:45
Speaker 2: like that. So I mean again that immediately makes me
22:49
Speaker 2: angry if people hate on themselves because what are you
22:52
Speaker 2: talking about? You're amazing? So what was the question again?
22:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that the negative self is. So that's one
23:01
Speaker 1: number one. I think you said, Okay, value who you
23:04
Speaker 1: are because then you can express that. And one of
23:06
Speaker 1: the things I like enjoying when the five Boy assessment
23:09
Speaker 1: there's a liberation statement of like who am I and
23:12
Speaker 1: you describe this about who I am into the world,
23:15
Speaker 1: Because what I find is if you don't dig down
23:18
Speaker 1: and get that goal and understand what you're saying, Sarah,
23:20
Speaker 1: it's very hard then to work with other people because
23:23
Speaker 1: you don't even value who you are, So why would
23:25
Speaker 1: you value other people? And that at least that's one
23:28
Speaker 1: of my journey, and like and you're trying to unlock people.
23:30
Speaker 1: We're both in this journey of like getting people in
23:33
Speaker 1: that place, and particularly for those of the eighty ah
23:35
Speaker 1: years that get distracted are like, oh, I guess I
23:37
Speaker 1: should be like this person. I'm like, well, maybe, but
23:40
Speaker 1: maybe not. And you haven't done the work on yourself.
23:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, and your environment as a neurodivergent person,
23:49
Speaker 2: you are so incredibly sensitive and not like, oh, you're sensitive,
23:55
Speaker 2: like no, in a bad way. It's a gift how
23:59
Speaker 2: perceptive neurodivergent people are, whether you are diagnosed or not.
24:04
Speaker 2: If you are someone who can feel the weight of
24:08
Speaker 2: someone else's mood when they walk in, if you can
24:10
Speaker 2: read the person in front of you, if you can
24:13
Speaker 2: notice patterns of your coworkers or your family, you are
24:18
Speaker 2: going to absorb a lot of that. And so I
24:21
Speaker 2: think being really really intentional about the environments you place
24:24
Speaker 2: yourself in. If they aren't serving, you change them. If
24:28
Speaker 2: they aren't going to change, find somewhere else to grow.
24:32
Speaker 2: And so burn out because the culture, often especially in
24:38
Speaker 2: the United States, is a go go, go fast. You know,
24:43
Speaker 2: we don't take breaks. We work through lunch. If you've
24:45
Speaker 2: got surgery scheduled at ten am, you better call me
24:48
Speaker 2: at two, you know. And so we experience that, and
24:52
Speaker 2: that's just normal for Americans to deal with those types
24:56
Speaker 2: of things. And I'm seeing so much of how other
24:59
Speaker 2: people live now that I'm in Spain, and so we
25:04
Speaker 2: can talk about that all day.
25:06
Speaker 1: Other episode, come by another episode.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yes, But if you are experiencing burnout, if you are,
25:15
Speaker 2: you kind of get home and you just throw all
25:18
Speaker 2: your stuff on the floor and you just kind of
25:20
Speaker 2: sit like a zombie, or you scroll or you watch
25:23
Speaker 2: TV and you cannot find motivation to find joy or hobbies.
25:29
Speaker 2: It's not your fault. It's exhausting, and especially for a
25:34
Speaker 2: neurodivergent person. Again, if the environment that you are in
25:39
Speaker 2: is a draining one, you need to have that self
25:42
Speaker 2: awareness of I actually want to do something else. I
25:46
Speaker 2: want to I want to have more fun. I want
25:48
Speaker 2: to have my days and at five o'clock and take
25:52
Speaker 2: my kiddo to the park or and again, it all
25:55
Speaker 2: comes back to values. What matters to you, and You're
26:00
Speaker 2: life is worth it. It's short, it's beautiful, it's messy,
26:03
Speaker 2: but it's yours and you can design it however you
26:06
Speaker 2: want to.
26:07
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's why you know. Having you Sarah on
26:09
Speaker 1: the podcast is somebody like you can take an assessment,
26:13
Speaker 1: like you can do some of these things in the
26:14
Speaker 1: videos there and they're great resources. And then you have
26:16
Speaker 1: somebody come alongside you like Sarah that's been there, done that,
26:19
Speaker 1: and it's helping you and walking alongside you and giant
26:22
Speaker 1: we like to say the word shirt about like somebody
26:24
Speaker 1: going out ahead that's done this before. As you were
26:27
Speaker 1: saying that, Sarah. The one of the other assessments that
26:29
Speaker 1: came to mind is the Peace Index assessment, where it
26:31
Speaker 1: talks about your purpose, your place right. I was just
26:34
Speaker 1: talking to another colleague about that, like assessing you at
26:38
Speaker 1: a very high level, just kind of getting you some
26:40
Speaker 1: awareness because I think, honestly, if you're talking about burnout, Sarah,
26:44
Speaker 1: I think the people don't even realize and how much
26:47
Speaker 1: of a deficit they really are. In my experience, I
26:51
Speaker 1: think that they're just they feel like, I guess this
26:53
Speaker 1: is kind of the new normal, and they don't even realize,
26:57
Speaker 1: like I'm definitely very low overall, and we don't even
27:02
Speaker 1: know what it's like to feel. So you're going into
27:04
Speaker 1: another country, you're seeing things differently. I know when I've
27:07
Speaker 1: gone from an organization where it was not that healthy
27:10
Speaker 1: and another one, I'm like, is this normal? Is this
27:12
Speaker 1: like actually how people treat each other? And I'm like,
27:14
Speaker 1: this is like a breath of fresh air. I didn't
27:16
Speaker 1: even know it was there. I was just completely oblivious
27:19
Speaker 1: to it, you know, Yeah.
27:22
Speaker 2: For sure. I mean, and that's something too that like
27:25
Speaker 2: normal is busted. Normal is not working. Like if you
27:29
Speaker 2: look at the statistics, if you look at some of
27:32
Speaker 2: the numbers of happiness and job satisfaction and family quality time,
27:38
Speaker 2: and like I said, hobbies like you don't even Yeah,
27:43
Speaker 2: you don't realize it because oh, well, that person's experiencing
27:46
Speaker 2: it too. Like you have got to get to a
27:48
Speaker 2: point where you say, okay, but I'm not going to
27:51
Speaker 2: do that anymore, right, right, And you're going to have
27:54
Speaker 2: to buck up against some systems that are broken, some
27:57
Speaker 2: systems that are holding you there. And a lot of
27:59
Speaker 2: the time it's in your head. Unfortunately, those things that
28:04
Speaker 2: are holding you back are in your head. So I mean,
28:08
Speaker 2: I would speak so much to community, find like minded
28:13
Speaker 2: people because what I did so much in the first
28:16
Speaker 2: half of my career was I I pulled from a
28:22
Speaker 2: part of myself that I thought I wanted to achieve
28:26
Speaker 2: that goal. But it got me in rooms with people
28:29
Speaker 2: that just got on my nerves. I'm like you, you
28:32
Speaker 2: are not nice, you have a lot of money, but
28:37
Speaker 2: I don't like being around you. And I kept finding
28:40
Speaker 2: myself being rewarded and advancing in that environment. But I
28:46
Speaker 2: got to a point where I was getting migraines constantly,
28:49
Speaker 2: I was staying fourteen hour days, I was skipping lunch,
28:55
Speaker 2: and in hindsight, I was like, never again. I made
29:00
Speaker 2: a promise to myself five years ago that I will
29:03
Speaker 2: never work through lunch again, and I have kept that
29:06
Speaker 2: promise to myself for five years. Because our bodies only
29:12
Speaker 2: last so long, you guys, and if you just dig
29:15
Speaker 2: them into the ground faster than they need to, and
29:19
Speaker 2: you don't want to get to the point where your
29:21
Speaker 2: body starts telling you to stop because it's hard time
29:24
Speaker 2: to do that.
29:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well I like to I think we were talking.
29:27
Speaker 1: I like it. I like to use the car analogy.
29:29
Speaker 1: You don't have to change the oil, you know, every
29:32
Speaker 1: day or but you do need to change it regularly.
29:34
Speaker 1: You need you need to duck at the tires. You
29:35
Speaker 1: need to do the maintenance. If you don't do the maintenance,
29:38
Speaker 1: the car will not last that long and you'll have
29:40
Speaker 1: a serious likely breakdown and get stuck, possibly somewhere you
29:43
Speaker 1: don't want to be stuck.
29:44
Speaker 2: Yeah right, that's exactly right.
29:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing you're saying, Sarah, Gosh, there's so
29:51
Speaker 1: many good nuggets here, you guys. Hope you are listening
29:53
Speaker 1: in and again, make sure you guys connect with Sarah
29:56
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. We'll put all this in the show notes,
29:58
Speaker 1: websites and all that stuff to follow up on. Man,
30:02
Speaker 1: there are so many great points here you mentioned. I
30:07
Speaker 1: want to get a little bit of time into systems
30:09
Speaker 1: and AI, particularly because I know that's another element that
30:12
Speaker 1: you do, and like, how can that those you know,
30:16
Speaker 1: as you're building these things, how can that help support
30:20
Speaker 1: leadership focus and clarity? What what are you? What's what's
30:23
Speaker 1: exciting you about this? You know, as things are evolving technology?
30:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, Okay, So I do have a
30:29
Speaker 2: lot of feelings because hello, strong sense of justice, environmental things,
30:35
Speaker 2: how it's affecting communities. There's always those pieces to consider
30:39
Speaker 2: when making progress, right, and so we have to be
30:42
Speaker 2: intentional about being responsible with how we use new things
30:46
Speaker 2: absolutely anything anything. And so that being said, I have
30:52
Speaker 2: really I'm also an early adopter of technology. I have
30:54
Speaker 2: always been the first one. I was the first one
30:57
Speaker 2: of my friends with an iPod. I was the first
30:59
Speaker 2: one with this said that. You know, I just have
31:02
Speaker 2: always been a fan of new tech, and so AI
31:05
Speaker 2: is no different. I have been chatting with chat GPT
31:10
Speaker 2: since its inception, and so realizing how to talk to
31:17
Speaker 2: it took some time, but in the past year with
31:21
Speaker 2: the way it's advanced, realizing how it can help me
31:26
Speaker 2: specifically as an entrepreneur and as an adhder, because it's
31:34
Speaker 2: filling in gaps that I didn't even realize I had.
31:38
Speaker 2: It's like I was aware that I wasn't progressing in
31:41
Speaker 2: these certain areas, but they were always back burner stuff. So,
31:45
Speaker 2: for example, even just daily tasks of like staying on track,
31:51
Speaker 2: like when I have an idea, because we have simultaneous
31:54
Speaker 2: ideas all the time. What I have done recently is
31:59
Speaker 2: I have I have asked my AI to, hey, can
32:03
Speaker 2: you log all of these things for me and send
32:05
Speaker 2: me a weekly summary of all the ideas I had
32:09
Speaker 2: and helped me prioritize my next week. That sounds like, okay, great,
32:14
Speaker 2: they're your assistant or whatever. What I am telling you
32:18
Speaker 2: is neurodivergent people map time differently, like I mentioned earlier,
32:23
Speaker 2: and part of that is when I am engaging with somebody,
32:27
Speaker 2: when I am doing the work, I am not anywhere else.
32:33
Speaker 2: I am present and I'm making note of what's happening.
32:36
Speaker 2: And so after the fact, I often say, like I
32:39
Speaker 2: blacked out that whole time. I probably won't remember most
32:42
Speaker 2: of this podcast, So it's a good thing that we
32:46
Speaker 2: have it recorded because and that is how the neurodivergent
32:50
Speaker 2: brain works, like you're in it and then it doesn't
32:53
Speaker 2: find that information useful and it kind of like off
32:56
Speaker 2: boards it. Well, with AI, I'm able to to say, hey,
33:01
Speaker 2: I'm going into a podcast with David. We're going to
33:04
Speaker 2: talk about this stuff. Can you actually can you ask
33:07
Speaker 2: me send me a reminder in an hour and ask
33:10
Speaker 2: me to debrief what David and I just talked about
33:13
Speaker 2: and see how I can integrate that into the next
33:15
Speaker 2: steps of ever kind strategies. Yes, and it will do that,
33:18
Speaker 2: and it will push me a notification while it's fresh.
33:22
Speaker 2: So that's just one example of how both entrepreneurship and
33:28
Speaker 2: with ADHD that it's just helping me.
33:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. And and again I think coming
33:35
Speaker 1: along people Sarah, that you're working with folks that are
33:38
Speaker 1: in this place and like helping them set it up
33:41
Speaker 1: like you've been there, you've done that, and like, okay,
33:43
Speaker 1: let's let's like you said, working with Sarah or working
33:46
Speaker 1: with someone like me, well, we're going to help you
33:48
Speaker 1: go further and faster together than you just trying to
33:52
Speaker 1: do it on your own and kind of like poking
33:53
Speaker 1: at it. It's like and at the end of the day,
33:56
Speaker 1: I think what you're seeing and Sarah, particularly because you
34:00
Speaker 1: done this, Sarah, and I love the hearing, like the
34:02
Speaker 1: making sure that you got your lunches last five years amazing,
34:05
Speaker 1: Like you're doing these things and you're getting you're getting
34:08
Speaker 1: the wins, and you're becoming really the person that you
34:11
Speaker 1: want to be that though, you're living your values, and
34:13
Speaker 1: I think that is beautiful because I feel like there's
34:15
Speaker 1: a lot of people that look back in their life like, yeah,
34:18
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't. That wasn't didn't mean a lot
34:20
Speaker 1: to me. I missed out. And we have such a
34:23
Speaker 1: short time to have impact and influence with those our spouses,
34:28
Speaker 1: our children, our co workers, and you know, we want
34:32
Speaker 1: to live this life out and be our truest, you know,
34:36
Speaker 1: our best self if you will. And and I think, Sarah,
34:40
Speaker 1: the work you're doing is fantastic. And I think hopefully
34:43
Speaker 1: as you guys are listening into this, I want you
34:45
Speaker 1: to encourage you to connect with Sarah or talk with
34:46
Speaker 1: both of us. We work in collaboratively together to help
34:50
Speaker 1: clients in this way and it's nice to be having
34:53
Speaker 1: people across the world now that you're in Spain and
34:55
Speaker 1: a whole nother time zone, you know, and reaching folks.
34:59
Speaker 1: But here you're on the podcast as we're getting to
35:02
Speaker 1: the end of the podcast, and I'm gonna have to
35:03
Speaker 1: have you come back, sir, because you brought us some
35:04
Speaker 1: other good points we just couldn't get to today. As
35:08
Speaker 1: somebody's listening to this whether okay, I asked you two questions,
35:11
Speaker 1: if if they're ADHD, if they know that they're ADHD,
35:14
Speaker 1: or their neurodiversion. I want to kind of ask you
35:16
Speaker 1: two things. Well, the first question would be I'll start
35:19
Speaker 1: with the first question. I'm gonna fow up question. But
35:21
Speaker 1: for those folks that they're listening in, what would you say?
35:25
Speaker 1: It's one thing that they can do after listening to
35:28
Speaker 1: this podcast, Like you said, I don't want to go
35:30
Speaker 1: to the black hole, but they could do something positive
35:33
Speaker 1: to keep the momentum going.
35:36
Speaker 2: Find a community that tells you you're just fine, that
35:41
Speaker 2: you're that you are. My podcast is called totally Normal,
35:46
Speaker 2: and that's why, like, hey, it's totally normal that after
35:50
Speaker 2: this thing you felt like this, Because we know you've
35:53
Speaker 2: got ADHD, you're neurodivergent, we get it, you know you
35:57
Speaker 2: just you need to be reminded that you aren't alone,
36:01
Speaker 2: and so find community. Message me, DM me, email me.
36:07
Speaker 2: I can either be that for you or connect you
36:10
Speaker 2: to some great opportunities to get with folks that tell
36:14
Speaker 2: you you're not crazy for that. Actually, and just having people
36:17
Speaker 2: on your side can get you places further than any
36:21
Speaker 2: level of research, job, experience, anything. Just letting you know
36:26
Speaker 2: you're not alone.
36:27
Speaker 1: That's no. I agree. And I was just having my
36:30
Speaker 1: group coaching program this morning Sarah that I was on,
36:32
Speaker 1: and that was basically at you know you and I
36:35
Speaker 1: are called to create that space and it's not for everybody,
36:39
Speaker 1: but for the people that get it, and they're like,
36:40
Speaker 1: I need this and it's valuable. I will tell you
36:43
Speaker 1: is it's one hundred percent with Sarah is saying get
36:46
Speaker 1: in the community, invest in yourself. That was one thing
36:49
Speaker 1: I recognized as a coach myself stepping into the space.
36:53
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I recognize I'm a vector for
36:56
Speaker 1: you and Sarah. So is Sarah to help get better,
36:58
Speaker 1: to get healed, just raising her hands saying hey, we
37:01
Speaker 1: want to help you along the journey. And so you
37:03
Speaker 1: have an advocate here in Sarah and myself, and I
37:06
Speaker 1: highly encourage you to reach out to Sarah and she's
37:09
Speaker 1: the would be fantastic to follow up the follow up
37:11
Speaker 1: question I have for you, though, Sarah's for the other people.
37:14
Speaker 1: Those that are not the narrative are just those that
37:16
Speaker 1: are not ADHD they listening. I'm not that person, But
37:19
Speaker 1: what can they do to be supportive of those folks?
37:23
Speaker 1: What can they do to be more aware and have
37:27
Speaker 1: a better influence and impact and getting actually engagement for
37:30
Speaker 1: those folks creating an environment like you were talking earlier,
37:32
Speaker 1: What can those folks do?
37:36
Speaker 2: It's a three step process. The first step is ask
37:43
Speaker 2: how can I help you achieve your goals? How can
37:47
Speaker 2: I help so pay attention?
37:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
37:51
Speaker 2: The next thing is listen. Listen to them the whole time,
37:56
Speaker 2: even if it's foreign to you, because neurodivergent brains do
38:00
Speaker 2: not make sense to a nurotypical brain. It is a
38:03
Speaker 2: whole other model and it comes in aversions one through infinity. Okay,
38:09
Speaker 2: And lastly, believe them. Believe what they're saying. Believe that
38:16
Speaker 2: are they just trying to get trust special treatment? Are
38:19
Speaker 2: they just trying to have this thing that makes them
38:22
Speaker 2: different than the rest of the group. They're already different, y'all.
38:25
Speaker 2: They want to belong they want to be a part
38:28
Speaker 2: of a successful team and a group of people going
38:31
Speaker 2: in the same direction and do it well.
38:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Sarah. Thank you so much for
38:36
Speaker 1: just sharing with our audience. Again. I encourage you guys
38:39
Speaker 1: to leave comments here on the wherever you're listening to us,
38:42
Speaker 1: whether it's YouTube or Spotify, Amazon, whatever the platform it is.
38:45
Speaker 1: We love, of course getting your five star reviews. That's
38:49
Speaker 1: always helpful getting more folks reaching these podcasts. Of course.
38:53
Speaker 1: You know, look in the show notes, we'll have links
38:55
Speaker 1: to both Sarah and I so you guys can follow
38:57
Speaker 1: up with us. We would love to hear from you, Sarah.
39:00
Speaker 1: It was a real pleasure. Thank you so much for
39:01
Speaker 1: being here on the podcast with us.
39:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me.
39:04
Speaker 1: Absolutely Thanks everybody for being here. We invite you to
39:08
Speaker 1: come back week after week, subscribe, follow along, and until
39:12
Speaker 1: next time, be well, take good care of yourself. Thanks
39:15
Speaker 1: for listening. Everybody,