Latest / Math Therapy / How to believe in yourself when nobody else will w/ Taylor Telfer-Thompson

Transcript

How to believe in yourself when nobody else will w/ Taylor Telfer-Thompson · Math Therapy

• 0:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: well you passed.
• 0:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like that was what it is.
• 0:04
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was always like, well, you passed, you passed, you don't have to retake it, you didn't fail.
• 0:07
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, that's really like the level that we're on.
• 0:10
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I wish you would expect more from me.
• 0:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: When someone says like, you can't do that.
• 0:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm just like, watch me.
• 0:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I don't need you to tell me I can do it anymore.
• 0:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Even though it would've been helpful when I was growing up to have somebody be like, no, you can.
• 0:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But it's like now, like I've kind of built it myself wanna do it just because you told me I can't do it.
• 0:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Hey guys, it's Vanessa here, and welcome back to another episode of Math Therapy.
• 0:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Today's episode is actually a follow up to last week's conversation, which to be perfectly honest, I'm shocked that I've not been canceled for like, I'm actually low key serious.
• 0:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you haven't heard it yet, it was completely unhinged and although I was scared to publish it, I'm so glad that I did.
• 0:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: It was actually a conversation with Cat and Nat, two mom influencers who have extremely strong opinions about math education and are not afraid to share them.
• 0:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Since the episode came out, the response has been fascinating.
• 1:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I could see how much their stresses resonated with so many of you, which I actually didn't expect.
• 1:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: And if any of you made it to the end of that rollercoaster, you already know that this week we're bringing you an interview with Nats daughter Taylor, who's currently in grade 11 and has had her own rocky relationship with math.
• 1:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: I actually had the privilege of tutoring her, so I'm so excited to have her on the pod.
• 1:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is a really special pair of episodes for me because on this podcast I'm usually chatting with math educators and experts about how we can help students and families.
• 1:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: But in these two conversations, I got to actually hear the unfiltered realities of what they're going through, not just with math class, but their entire lives.
• 1:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: Taylor is such an inspiration for all of us today.
• 1:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: She tells us exactly how she took matters into her own hands and turned around her relationship with math.
• 1:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: We discussed the little things that teachers can do to inspire massive confidence shifts in their students, like literally getting down to their level instead of standing over them in class, or dropping all the jargon and talking to kids like their real people.
• 2:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Most of all, Taylor describes the most important thing an adult can do to support a student's learning: tell them they believe in them.
• 2:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know this conversation will resonate with so many of you, teachers, parents, and students.
• 2:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: So please share this episode with someone you think needs to hear it.
• 2:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe it's your own kid, your friend, your parent, or maybe your entire classroom.
• 2:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, Here's my conversation with the one and only Taylor Telfer Thompson.
• 2:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: you're the first student we've ever had on the podcast.
• 2:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I am so
• 2:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm so excited too.
• 2:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: I feel like your story of like perseverance and like struggle is so inspiring because I know that math is something you've always historically struggled with and you've have this very interesting approach where you've like really had this determination to not just like, throw it to the curb.
• 2:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Most of my listeners actually are teachers and I'm, I feel like we all wanna know like, how, why, like what's, what's your story?
• 3:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, how do we help students who are struggling?
• 3:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: So that's like a bunch of stuff I wanna talk to you about.
• 3:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I think the first thing I wanna ask is just like, what's your story?
• 3:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, what has math felt like for you growing up and like up till now?
• 3:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Math has just been like one of those subjects where it's like everyone dreads going to math class.
• 3:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, oh, like we're going to math now.
• 3:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And like nobody wants to go and nobody, it's just like, it seems like we all can, like we all are confused at some point.
• 3:28
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: No one's just like, I get it.
• 3:31
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And over the years it was always like, I was never great at math, and my teachers kind of just were like accepted it and they were like, okay.
• 3:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: like, she's not gonna be great at math.
• 3:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: that's fine.
• 3:41
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: We're just gonna like, accept that and we're just gonna like pass it.
• 3:44
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like just get through it.
• 3:45
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was never like try to be really good at it.
• 3:48
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was just like, get a 50, and try and just move past, like you don't have to think too much about it, just bare minimum with it.
• 3:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: And was it always like that?
• 3:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: From as long as you can remember, really?
• 4:02
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: There was never a teacher that was like, no, like you actually, you can do it.
• 4:05
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Was always just like, no.
• 4:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: it was just like, no.
• 4:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: And so what, how did that make you feel?
• 4:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, was there ever ever a time where you were like, okay, I guess, like, fuck it then, or like, what happened for you?
• 4:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Up until like grade 11, so all the way until grade 10, it was just like, I was just like, yeah, like it's fine.
• 4:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm just never going to be good at math.
• 4:22
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like that's just, I was like, yeah, I'm just not good at math.
• 4:25
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, uh, whatever.
• 4:26
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I'm good at other things, but I guess math was just like, not my thing.
• 4:29
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I don't need to do that good in it.
• 4:30
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I never wanted to do anything with it, but I had to take it.
• 4:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But then up until grade 11, it's almost like I matured and I kind of just like, I moved schools.
• 4:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was caring less about what my teachers had to say and it was more like, I don't know, like I don't really just wanna pass it, may as well see, if like everyone else can, other people can do it.
• 4:49
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Why can't I like it was that, it was like, if they can do it, why can't I do it?
• 4:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my.
• 4:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 4:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I feel like you've hit on something like so deep.
• 4:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Cause I remember, I distinctly remember it was the first time I met you and it was for your exam.
• 5:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you came in and you had like all your notes, all your things.
• 5:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: You weren't a student who like didn't try.
• 5:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: It wasn't giving like, oh, I'm just trying to pass.
• 5:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, you were not giving that energy to me.
• 5:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: You, you were like, or, or were you, was I, were you like, yeah, I'm trying this hard'cause I need to pass.
• 5:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think it was like right before exams or like right before tests.
• 5:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like day before I was like, I'm gonna do it, like now.
• 5:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's gonna be my time.
• 5:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do it now.
• 5:26
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, uh, and my mom's like, well, you're not like studying like you, you're not, you're not like trying hard enough.
• 5:31
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was like in my head I thought I was trying, but I wasn't actually putting anything down.
• 5:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: it was like a battle in my head.
• 5:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, you can't do it.
• 5:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: You can't do it.
• 5:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Try the day before, and then I would get the result and it wouldn't be good, and I'd be like, well, I tried.
• 5:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Totally.
• 5:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know what, and I think this happens to so many people because like even into way into adulthood, like leave math class out.
• 5:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like what does it mean to actually try?
• 5:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 5:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like what does that even mean?
• 5:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I actually think we do students a disservice'cause we don't actually show them what trying means.
• 6:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're just kind of like, try harder and then like it's kind of up to you to interpret what that means.
• 6:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Then all of a sudden you try, so you start, you know, you try before the exam and you're studying hard and you don't get the result you want.
• 6:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And then you're like, well, I tried and it still isn't working, therefore I can't do it.
• 6:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is that what was happening?
• 6:16
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 6:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: So when we met, we, and I just like loved you right away because again, I, you really didn't have the vibe of like, ugh.
• 6:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: You were like, yep, I'm determined.
• 6:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm here, like I wanna do it.
• 6:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: From that moment, you know, we only had one session together, but I just feel like we shared a really magical moment.
• 6:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Me too.
• 6:36
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Me too.
• 6:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna know what happened moving on.
• 6:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because then in for everyone to know who's listening in Ontario, you have to take grade 10 math, so fine.
• 6:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: But then grade 11, you're allowed to pick from a range of maths, right?
• 6:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you actually chose to pick the middle level of math.
• 6:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna know about that moment?
• 7:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, what shifted for you when you, like, what made you go, well, if everyone else can do it, why can't I, like, did something happen?
• 7:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: What was it?
• 7:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I remember when we got our math exam mark's back from like the previous year.
• 7:12
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I saw that like everyone was like complaining about their eighties and I like had just gotten to 55 and I was like, I'm so annoyed with this.
• 7:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think it was like just like, I'm so mad.
• 7:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And it just like turned into like anger and I was like, no, like I wanna just like.
• 7:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Tell my teachers and all like these people that are saying like, no, like, oh, well you passed, like that was what it is.
• 7:30
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was always like, well, you passed, you passed, you don't have to retake it, you didn't fail.
• 7:33
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, that's really like the level that we're on.
• 7:36
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I wish you would expect more from me.
• 7:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, I want you to expect more from me.
• 7:41
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was like there was like babying me.
• 7:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: You've just hit on such, like Taylor, my God, I know you wanna go into psychology, but imagine you end up becoming a teacher.
• 7:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because I have to say, you just hit on one of the biggest things we're all talking about in math education.
• 7:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 7:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: So research has shown that when you expect more from students, they actually, often reach that level.
• 8:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like we think we're doing students a favor by being like, don't worry, like just pass, like make it.
• 8:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: But it actually does, you're kind of like personifying this by being like, that actually wasn't helpful.
• 8:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: No, it was not at
• 8:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: It wasn't at all.
• 8:16
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: No.
• 8:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: I want everyone to hear this.
• 8:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: It was not helpful for
• 8:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Not helpful.
• 8:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was, it was, it was like nice, they didn't yell at me or anything, but I was like, you're telling these people, like I'm watching you at the desk with them, telling them that like they could have done better.
• 8:31
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like with me, you're just saying like, Taylor, that's really like, no, it's not actually that great.
• 8:36
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like if I know I could have done better, like I know and you didn't push me, like I want you to push me and say like, no, like sit here until you like, we'll sit together and we'll do it.
• 8:46
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And not just like, yeah.
• 8:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: actually,
• 8:50
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Aw.
• 8:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am, because it's so important for us to all hear this.
• 8:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: And again, teachers are well-meaning like we're trying to be helpful, but to actually hear from a student like that isn't helpful.
• 8:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that for a long time made me feel like I wasn't capable and there was nothing I could do.
• 9:04
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Mm-hmm.
• 9:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Once you made that decision, what changed?
• 9:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like is that when you changed schools?
• 9:10
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I changed schools when I realized, I was like, this isn't really.
• 9:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I feel like I was just the same.
• 9:16
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: nothing was changing.
• 9:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like my study habits, the way I would walk into class, just get it done, just get it done, not interested, just get it over with, just figure it out like baseline.
• 9:28
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then when I changed schools, I guess it was like that period of time, I also just like matured.
• 9:33
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then when I went to a school where it was more independent, like I didn't have eight kids in my class, I was like, the teacher doesn't really.
• 9:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Care if you pass or you fail.
• 9:42
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But they'll focus on the kids who really care.
• 9:45
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And so I wanted to be one that like they really cared about, so I would like go in and ask questions and stuff.
• 9:51
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And that really made me realize like, okay, like they'll help me if I like help myself.
• 9:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Huh.
• 9:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: want everyone to know, by the way, Taylor went to the same school.
• 10:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: That I failed grade 11 at.
• 10:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: Which is
• 10:07
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yes.
• 10:07
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: That one.
• 10:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: is so funny because this is, you just finished grade 11 and this is the year that was like so great for you.
• 10:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: But she's right.
• 10:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: By
• 10:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: We're
• 10:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're all different.
• 10:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: In that school, that is the vibe at that school.
• 10:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like they, if you like, they're not, it's a, you know, class sizes are big.
• 10:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: I consider them, they think of themselves as like a very academic school, and they're like, if you're not serious about academics, like we don't have time for you.
• 10:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: So interesting that as a student you were like savvy to that and you were like, okay, so I need to play the game a bit and ask
• 10:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: this how it is.
• 10:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: This is how it let's, yeah.
• 10:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: what happened?
• 10:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: So you're asking questions, did you, like, did all you start understanding stuff more like what occurred?
• 10:47
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I just like tried to like flip my narrative is like, just get it done.
• 10:50
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I tried to be like actually interested in what they were saying and I almost convinced myself, like, one of my teachers is a mom, and I was like, she's just a mom.
• 10:57
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, she's like normal.
• 10:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like she's just talking to me like I, or like she's just gonna go home and make dinner.
• 11:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, you.
• 11:04
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I just have to like realize like you're, you're not just doing this like to hate us.
• 11:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like you really want us to understand and like, I wanna be interested in what you have to say.
• 11:12
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And she, when she saw I was interested, she would come up to me and she'd be like, checking in on me and stuff.
• 11:19
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, that feels good.
• 11:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Knowing I was like engaged with her.
• 11:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She would come and help me, but not the kids in the back who were on their phones.
• 11:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 11:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 11:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: this is wild.
• 11:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is actually like, so fascinating.
• 11:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're kind of like teachers, they're just like us, like celebs, you know, they're,
• 11:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: They're, yeah, they're like
• 11:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: but what you're kind of actually talking about is like humanizing education, right?
• 11:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like being, this is a human being.
• 11:42
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: yeah,
• 11:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Really teaching, if what we're hoping for the most is that it would be a connection between two You're connecting, you're communicating.
• 11:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: And this kind of leads me to, because during this time you were doing tutoring with one of our tutors, right.
• 11:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you found someone, who was it?
• 11:57
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Alex,
• 11:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 11:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's what I thought.
• 11:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: she's great.
• 11:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Did that help shift what was going on for you mathematically?
• 12:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yes.
• 12:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was like I'd leave the class and I had like my, it was not a great setting, like the, the class like got to a point where like, she wouldn't even say hi to us in the room.
• 12:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was like she give us a paper and she's like, try it, and then we take it up.
• 12:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was no relationship at all.
• 12:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was just like two people.
• 12:19
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And when I would go to my tutor, she'd just make it seem like she was just like a normal girl.
• 12:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She'd make it seem like it was just like.
• 12:26
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So much more simple than it had to be.
• 12:29
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She explained it in like normal words and I like was like, oh, like I stopped staring at math, like it was so hard.
• 12:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, I have someone here that's just like really good at math, but she's explaining it to me in a way that's interesting and it started to make me not as scared of math anymore.
• 12:45
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, I just have to like approach it differently.
• 12:48
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And it took time.
• 12:49
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But like she might, having someone.
• 12:53
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I said to her at the beginning, my first thing I said was like, I'm just trying to like, um, really just like get interested in this because I was so into like English and all that stuff and I was like, there has to be a way to be interested in this.
• 13:04
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And she like gave me that reason.
• 13:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: You know what's so funny is like we're, I don't think I've ever realized.
• 13:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is really making me reflect on my own journey and what the way you're talking, I'm like, it's like we shared a brain many, many decades apart because I remember when I, the same thing happened to me when I went to my new school, so I actually left the school you're at now and I went to my new school.
• 13:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: We had like opposite, like switcheroo.
• 13:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: I remember too being like, you know what Vanessa, like what if you just sat and like, listened to what the teacher was saying like make it a whole thing?
• 13:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I remember giving myself that talk and being like, okay, so like she's just gonna say some words and like, just like everyone else, I can sit and listen and like, you know, and that mindset piece really shifted things.
• 13:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I do think it's really rare not to be like, oh my God, we're both so special.
• 13:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: But i, I do think it's kind of like a really hard thing to come to as like, how old are you?
• 13:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: 17.
• 13:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: 16.
• 13:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: 16.
• 13:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 13:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like to be like, I'm gonna like take this on this thing.
• 14:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I've been told my whole life, I'm gonna try and break that.
• 14:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like that's like a huge deal.
• 14:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Mm-hmm.
• 14:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like congratulate, like that's just, I just, yeah.
• 14:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't even know, like I really think that's a big deal.
• 14:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm also like, you know, as teachers we're always like, how do you know?
• 14:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: We know that students think math is fucking boring because a lot of it is, and a lot of it is like, why am I even learning this?
• 14:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: When you said to Alex, I'm really trying to get interested in this, and she was like, okay, and you're saying she made math interesting.
• 14:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: What did she do to make math interesting?
• 14:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like is there anything you can think of?
• 14:33
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She, it was like little things that you wouldn't even think, but like, they were consistent.
• 14:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, um, if I came with seven pages of notes, she would be like, okay, just like, take one.
• 14:43
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then we'd just like highlight it and she'd like, read, I'd like watch her read it.
• 14:46
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And she's like not being like, she's like, oh no, yeah, yeah,
• 14:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: By the way, Taylor just paused and scratched her head as that's what, apparently she's not being like head scratch.
• 14:56
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: to not being like this.
• 14:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 14:59
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Really descriptive.
• 15:00
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: just like looked at it and I just like watched her because I'm used to looking at teachers just like when they look at it and they're like.
• 15:06
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But she just like looked at it.
• 15:07
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She was like, oh.
• 15:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She's like, no, like it's, it's all good.
• 15:10
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, no worries.
• 15:11
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's very easy.
• 15:12
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then she'd like pull it up on the board with like colored markers and she'd be like, just like, watch me do it.
• 15:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Don't take notes.
• 15:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And we'll just like talk about it.
• 15:19
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like she'd be like, imagine you just went here and you just like, we're this far away from this.
• 15:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like that's the distance that we're talking about.
• 15:26
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then I'd have like a picture in my head and I was like, oh, I can imagine what that Ferris wheel looks like.
• 15:31
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Oh, I'm standing here.
• 15:32
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And she's like, yeah, now you just have to like measure and like, it's fine.
• 15:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: We'll just like use these colors to do that.
• 15:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then I'd copy it down after.
• 15:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: it was like she was like a magician.
• 15:41
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like that's how I felt at the beginning.
• 15:42
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, I don't know how you, it's crazy.
• 15:44
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I've had so many tutors and I've only had a few that like, are really stand out to me.
• 15:49
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So it really matters.
• 15:50
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think having someone that you can like be on the same wavelength as, as well.
• 15:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: so often when we think of like, we need to make math interesting, we're thinking we've gotta do like something crazy, like take them to a carnival and put them on a Ferris wheel, and you're like, you're like, no, what I'm hearing and tell me if I'm You're kind of like, she just spoke to me like a normal person.
• 16:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: yeah.
• 16:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: It the same question, but she was just like talking, and I've always found that actually that makes one of the biggest differences is like, it almost feels like when you go to math class, you're suddenly expected to like act a different way and speak in ways you wouldn't normally speak.
• 16:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like all like disconnected from what's going on and can't like.
• 16:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like you're an intel.
• 16:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are all intelligent people who like think and reason all the time, right?
• 16:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like we do that.
• 16:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: But when you're expected to like speak in words you wouldn't normally speak in, in a certain cadence and don't talk to anyone and like you know, it's like you can't use your thinking center
• 16:47
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah.
• 16:47
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, this is not working for
• 16:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 16:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: So, so one of the things she did was that is just like speak to you in normal language, kind of translate the stuff.
• 16:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: Was there anything else you can think of she did that really like made that difference?
• 16:59
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It also we, it wasn't just like she was like a tutor.
• 17:02
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's also like, I don't know if I came five minutes early or if I stayed five minutes late.
• 17:06
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like we'd also just like talk about life.
• 17:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it wasn't just like walking into the, walking into the studio, getting the work done.
• 17:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Thank you.
• 17:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Goodbye.
• 17:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It was like I had a relationship with her as well.
• 17:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So it was like enough that I knew she wasn't like my friend or anything, but it wasn't the same as like my math teacher, where it was just like handing me the work, gave me the mark, and that was it.
• 17:27
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, it was like, I wanna be able to talk to you and tell me, tell you exactly what I don't understand.
• 17:32
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I don't feel embarrassed to say to her like, I really actually don't understand anything you just said, but with my teacher, it's like you have to pretend.
• 17:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, oh, I don't want her to like judge me or be like, uh, I explained it four times already.
• 17:43
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, no, I just need you to like say it like normal, like sometimes I talk to ChatGPT and I'm like, just talk to me like it's a 16-year-old girl who has no idea what this is.
• 17:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yes.
• 17:53
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And it's like immediately I get it.
• 17:55
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then that reiterates during my test.
• 17:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm like, it's like when Alex said this, and then it like triggers something in my head and I'm like, oh, all I have to do is measure that to that.
• 18:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you know, like everything you're saying is corroborated by research.
• 18:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: I don't know if you know like, it's really interesting, all these things you're saying.
• 18:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like that emotional piece.
• 18:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Often our memory is more associated with emotions, right?
• 18:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like our, so the emotions can trigger memories and negative emotions like trigger negative memories or they prevent us from remembering things.
• 18:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like there's a lot of cool stuff that you're saying that I'm like, oh my God, this is such a practical application of what we like kind of know to be true.
• 18:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: But you're saying it in a way that's like so useful for teachers to hear so thank you, and I'm, I think one thing that keeps coming up is you're like, there needs to be this connection.
• 18:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: I need to feel like you're exactly what you said.
• 18:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're like, I don't need to feel like we're best friends, but I need to feel like safe enough to tell you that I don't understand something.
• 18:52
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: What do you think in a classroom, in your experience, like thinking about your previous teachers or classroom experiences has not made you feel that way?
• 19:02
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Um, I think like this year for example, when I had like questions where I didn't understand, it was like my teacher, and I bet this is very rare with teachers because I've never had experience before.
• 19:11
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She just like got to a point where she was just like, I could tell she was annoyed and she was just like.
• 19:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And she'd get like, she'd stand at my desk though, and like hover over like that.
• 19:22
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, it really helped if you like, pull up a chair and we sit next to each
• 19:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 19:26
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And you reach over with your pencil and you just do that.
• 19:31
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But like with different color, it's like little I'm like, if you just sit there, and you look at me and you're like, don't worry.
• 19:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it's, it's fine.
• 19:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, we're just gonna, we're gonna figure it out.
• 19:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: almost like she acts a little bit like, she's not like so much smarter than me.
• 19:44
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like even at like, you know what I mean?
• 19:46
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, like act like we're both confused and we'll get through it together.
• 19:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm literally freaky, I'm losing my mind.
• 19:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is you, you just don't even understand how, like, I wanna be like Building Thinking Classrooms, you're gonna be like, what are you talking about?
• 19:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: But there is so much out there now where we're like, again, like my whole thing is maththerapy.com/merch and my whole book is about these little things you can do.
• 20:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: 'Cause, we're human beings.
• 20:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: We can tell, someone's standing up and hovering above us, it sends a very specific message.
• 20:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, yeah, it might be a little thing, but that little thing is a huge thing.
• 20:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: And guess what?
• 20:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because it's such a little thing, it's pretty simple to fix.
• 20:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're not asking for like 10 hours of afterschool time.
• 20:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're like, could you just like get down to my level?
• 20:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: Could you just like tell me it's gonna be okay?
• 20:29
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like when like there's a little kid and you're like talking to'em, but you're so much taller than them.
• 20:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like everyone gets down on their level.
• 20:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, why did that have to change?
• 20:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like when you're hovering over me, it's like, I don't want you to leave.
• 20:41
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Just stay.
• 20:42
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Because like it's like I feel like you're in a rush to leave.
• 20:44
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like just sit down, even if it's for one minute, it just makes me like not think, oh my God, she's annoyed.
• 20:48
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She wants to leave.
• 20:49
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like, I can actually focus on what you're saying for that one
• 20:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God, this is so good.
• 20:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why do you think, like, you know, you kind of started at the beginning of this and you were like, you know, math class is this thing we all hate, like we all are confused.
• 21:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why do you think that is?
• 21:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, why is it, like math above all other classes?
• 21:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why does it just suck for so many students?
• 21:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think it's like something that we all kind of have in our head.
• 21:11
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like math is hard, like it's kind of like, and then we almost sort of like believe that
• 21:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is it hard,
• 21:19
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: not when you get it.
• 21:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like that's the biggest thing.
• 21:22
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's like it's not hard.
• 21:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It wasn't hard this
• 21:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 21:25
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think I only got like really stressed out about it a few times.
• 21:28
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I really, it was like I, if I did feel stressed out, I went and I talked about it with my tutor for an hour and then I left and I was like, it's fine.
• 21:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it was never that big of an issue until I figured out how I could fix
• 21:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: So why does everyone think it's hard, do you think?
• 21:45
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I don't think it's being like taught the right
• 21:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: you put like these random numbers and all these things on the board and there's no context.
• 21:52
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's just like a problem and you have to just like fix it, but there's no context.
• 21:56
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Everyone's just trying to solve something that's just like not being given the right way.
• 22:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: What was it like growing up with a mom who dislikes math so much?
• 22:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Did that affect you at all?
• 22:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm curious.
• 22:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think she was also just like at the beginning, like if all my teachers are like, you know, like it's not her like strong suit.
• 22:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think she also was like, just pass.
• 22:16
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like just pass.
• 22:16
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: That also got into her, so then it was like not only at home, but at school, like it was both.
• 22:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But then the second I started to do well, she really, she did what my teachers did and she gave me like a higher expectation.
• 22:29
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: You just got a 90 on this one quiz, even though you got 50 on the others, that one 90, like you can do it.
• 22:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, it's not impossible.
• 22:37
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And so then ever since, like those little things of like doing well, um, the standards were higher and she, she changed as I did, like when she saw
• 22:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, but what, like, Taylor, this is such a crazy story because most people in your situation where your parents kind of, well, meaningly are like, yeah, don't worry about it.
• 23:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Um, and your teachers are like, yeah, don't worry about it.
• 23:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Would have given up, did.
• 23:05
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: know.
• 23:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's so wild.
• 23:09
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think it's also just going to a new school and being surrounded by people like who actually cared.
• 23:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like seeing people in my class that were like, getting it.
• 23:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, oh, like I want, it was like almost like a little bit of jealousy.
• 23:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I was like, I want that.
• 23:22
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, I want that.
• 23:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I felt jealous.
• 23:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it was just like a normal teenage feeling of jealousy.
• 23:27
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But I was like, jealous that they were doing so well in math.
• 23:30
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So, and then they'd be like, oh, what'd you get on your quiz?
• 23:33
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, 50.
• 23:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And they were like, oh, I got a 90.
• 23:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I was like, they never asked me for help.
• 23:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, I was like, no, I want you to ask.
• 23:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I, I wanna be that.
• 23:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Huh.
• 23:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 23:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is actually leads to a question I wasn't gonna ask, but I'm so curious.
• 23:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: What's the vibe when it comes to, like, girls being good at math at your school?
• 23:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is it like, cool.
• 23:53
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah, there's a lot of girls that are actually really good at math, but I don't think that people would expect it like I see in the classroom.
• 24:00
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like if someone has a question, they automatically go to like the boy who's smarter at math, even though the girl has better marks.
• 24:07
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She's more like humble.
• 24:08
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I always noticed, I was like girls, like all my friends are very smart, but they aren't in your face about it.
• 24:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But I feel like when a guy has good marks, he's like, yep, I just got a 90.
• 24:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Everyone look at it, everyone look.
• 24:19
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But it's like the girl who has a hundred is just like sitting there.
• 24:22
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She's just like, subtle.
• 24:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why do you think that is?
• 24:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Why are the, are the girls chilling humble or they are, or do they not want people to know they have a good mark or something else entirely?
• 24:35
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think they just don't need like the reassurance that like, I think they have it in themself.
• 24:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: They're just like, I don't need to like go and tell everybody, so that I've got these good marks and stuff.
• 24:44
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like they just do it and then they just like, ha, they just like get the highest mark at graduation.
• 24:49
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it's, it was, it was girls.
• 24:50
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I went to the graduation this year.
• 24:51
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: The highest marks that the school were all girls.
• 24:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: I cannot believe your mama's cutting me off in five minutes.
• 24:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's so much to discuss here.
• 24:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, that, I am really glad you just told me that because.
• 25:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think we all need, we all need to hear this.
• 25:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is interesting.
• 25:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm just gonna leave it there.
• 25:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm not even gonna say anything about it.
• 25:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just think this is a very interesting point.
• 25:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: I, I have to move on now because I'm getting cut off soon.
• 25:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna know if growing up believing that you could only just pass math and your teachers sort of not believing in you, did it affect you in other areas of your life or your sense of self-confidence or anything, or not really?
• 25:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yes.
• 25:25
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I can like remember like being in school and just like, it kind of affected how I thought people would look at me and it affected my confidence with school, like in all subjects.
• 25:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Even though I was good at like other things, I was just like, maybe I just don't wanna just be bad at math.
• 25:39
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I thought it was just like.
• 25:41
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Every time I looked at my homework, I was like, I don't get it.
• 25:43
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But I looked at it for like 10 seconds with no help and I was like, I don't get it.
• 25:46
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like, I just can't do it.
• 25:47
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: even sometimes I catch myself, like, I can't, I can't, I can't.
• 25:50
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I can't, I can't.
• 25:52
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: When that happens, it's just like, shut off.
• 25:54
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So it's just like when you are, when I don't get it, I'm just like, I can't do it.
• 25:57
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I can't do it.
• 25:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I can't do it.
• 25:58
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I can't do it.
• 25:59
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And then I just like wouldn't do it.
• 26:01
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's just like a mind thing.
• 26:02
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I, I honestly believe it's all in my, it's all like everyone can do it.
• 26:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: You heard it here.
• 26:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Taylor says, oh my god, Taylor, you're gonna become a math teacher.
• 26:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I hope.
• 26:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: And pray.
• 26:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly, I just think that'd be the best fucking plot twist because really it, you know, there are, you're saying it's all in your head and I wanna like validate you, but also like, counterpoint.
• 26:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: First of all, you've had so many negative math experiences that is not in your head.
• 26:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's not in your head that, uh, teachers literally said to you, don't even worry about it.
• 26:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like they basically said to you, we don't believe you can do it, so don't bother trying.
• 26:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's what it says when you tell a student, don't worry about it.
• 26:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: You have other things you're good at.
• 26:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are being well meaning, but the message is clear and you've said it.
• 26:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: The message you got was, you don't even think I can do it.
• 26:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: So that is not.
• 26:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's true and that happened.
• 26:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: The interesting, the stuff that is in our head is negative self-talk, right?
• 26:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like that idea of I can't, I can't, I can't.
• 26:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: But again, you got that message from somewhere, you know, you got that message and now those voices have turned into your own voice.
• 26:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: But what's cool is once it's in our head and it's not external, we can change it.
• 27:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 27:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like things like you noticing being like, okay, I am saying I can't to myself.
• 27:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I can change that framework or like.
• 27:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thoughts are not things like they're literally thoughts, so maybe they're not true.
• 27:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: There is a lot we can do around it, but I think the thing you're really, really right about is like we call these things like limiting beliefs, right?
• 27:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like things that we're just like, Nope.
• 27:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like that's the thing I can't do.
• 27:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: The cool thing is just about our brains and the fact that we have neural pathways that grow and change is we can rewire them.
• 27:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: So just because you don't understand math today, or you didn't last year, it doesn't mean you never can.
• 27:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you're proving that, right?
• 27:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, but it's taken like such.
• 27:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think it's crazy and incredible how reflective you've been and how able you've been to be like, okay, like just the way we're talking about this and you're reflecting on like what motivated you and what inspired you to keep trying despite the fact that like you're getting the messages from basically every adult in your life that they don't believe in you.
• 27:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is wild.
• 27:59
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's really wild.
• 28:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: And now that you've kind of like discovered this superpower, let's say, that you've always had, but now it's like coming out, does this change the way you feel about what you can do like in the world?
• 28:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: I.
• 28:12
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yes.
• 28:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I feel more like capable of doing different things, or when someone says like, oh, you can't do that.
• 28:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm just like, watch me.
• 28:20
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I can do that.
• 28:21
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Don't like, I don't need you to tell me I can do it anymore.
• 28:24
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Even though it would've been helpful when I was growing up to have somebody be like, no, you can.
• 28:28
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: But it's like now, like I've kind of built it myself where I'm like, wanna do it just because you told me I can't do it.
• 28:34
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And I'm like, that reattaches to the fact that they always told me I couldn't.
• 28:38
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: So it's like I did it just because you told me not to.
• 28:40
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And like that's an actual thing too.
• 28:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 28:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's an actual thing too.
• 28:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think you know, the haters and the doubt like.
• 28:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's there to bring you down, but it actually fires you up to like prove someone wrong, you know?
• 28:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: But I'm also like, sorry that you've had to go through years of that because that doesn't really feel good.
• 28:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Not everyone would react that way.
• 28:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: A lot of people would just be like, oh, I guess I can't do it then.
• 29:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: And also that's a lot of work for you to do as a 16-year-old to have to like overcome all that.
• 29:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: But look at you now and that's amazing.
• 29:06
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Thank
• 29:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: So tell us, will you, you do not have to take math now, you are done, or will you be taking math in grade 12?
• 29:13
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I will be taking math next
• 29:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 29:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Tell us more why, why, which one?
• 29:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: How.
• 29:18
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm just like all this work this year, I feel like I don't want it to go into nothing.
• 29:23
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like I may as well just see if I can do even better next year.
• 29:27
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Right?
• 29:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: and now, so in Ontario, you pick your top six courses to submit the grades to, to get into like university.
• 29:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: does the fact that you need a high grade, like is the whole grading thing something that gets to you or you're not really worried about it?
• 29:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: I.
• 29:42
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I'm not really worried about it because I feel like I can, I feel like it won't be an issue, like I feel like I can do it.
• 29:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: if you were gonna speak directly to another student or someone listening to this podcast, there's a lot of adults who are listening to this podcast who are like, I'm just not a math person.
• 29:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: I couldn't do it.
• 29:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: What's one thing you would say to them?
• 29:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: One piece of advice.
• 30:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like anything.
• 30:02
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think just change your perspective on it.
• 30:04
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like you don't have to think about it as like math.
• 30:06
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like you can like change your idea about it and you're still doing math, but it doesn't have to be so challenging and so scary.
• 30:15
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Just yeah, like build a relationship with it almost.
• 30:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God, I love that.
• 30:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Build a relationship with it.
• 30:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: And there are things you can do.
• 30:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you're listening to this and you're so inspired by Taylor's story, which I am right now, I want you to go download Duolingo math.
• 30:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: They're not sponsoring us, but they should.
• 30:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: But that is one way, like Taylor's saying just like kind of low stakes, like just like start doing it and don't think of it as this big thing.
• 30:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Duolingo has this new thing where they've added math as a language you can learn.
• 30:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's three minutes a day.
• 30:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like start super basic and you can just start doing it in a low stake stakes way, build a relationship with it, a relationship where you're hanging out with it for three minutes a day and see what happens.
• 30:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: So Taylor and I are inviting you to go build a relationship with math on your own terms.
• 30:56
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: exactly.
• 30:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: what happens.
• 30:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: See it.
• 30:59
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: See what happens.
• 31:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Taylor, you're so cool.
• 31:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Honestly, this is the best I could talk to you forever.
• 31:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: so often we are like, math feels pointless.
• 31:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: A lot of the stuff, your learning feels pointless.
• 31:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: But one thing that I think is so important is I think that math is a gateway where you learn things like perseverance and resilience and like, problem solving.
• 31:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like how to solve a problem that really feels like you can't solve it, and you're kind of demonstrating that, like those skills are what you have learned.
• 31:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Those skills are way more important than like the fucking quadratic equation.
• 31:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're gonna, you're already showing, you're taking those skills into the rest of your life.
• 31:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're now like, yeah, what, what can't I do?
• 31:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I'll prove you wrong.
• 31:36
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I think that's just amazing and so inspiring.
• 31:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm so glad we met and I have to ask you two questions I always ask everyone on the podcast.
• 31:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Question number one.
• 31:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: If there's one thing you could change about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?
• 31:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Pick one thing.
• 31:52
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: the teacher's way of approaching it better and not coming off as so scary about it and just making it seem like it's we're gonna do it together.
• 32:00
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: I think we're gonna get through this course
• 32:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love it.
• 32:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: And number two, what if someone's listening to this podcast and they're like, oh, that story was so inspiring, but I'm different because I'm just not a math person.
• 32:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: What would you say?
• 32:11
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: like I think that anybody can be a math person if they really try.
• 32:14
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Like it's you have to find the way that you can do it.
• 32:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love it.
• 32:17
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: And that's different for everyone.
• 32:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: You rock.
• 32:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you so much.
• 32:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: I cannot wait to watch you grow mathematically next year.
• 32:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Maybe you can pop in and like tutor some kids.
• 32:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's see what happens.
• 32:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just a little mindset coach,
• 32:28
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Let's see.
• 32:29
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Exactly.
• 32:30
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Maybe.
• 32:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thanks Taylor.
• 32:33
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: Thank you so
• 32:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Bye.
• 32:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: I still can't get over how much wisdom Taylor just like casually dropped.
• 32:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like maybe the kids are all right and we really do have some hope for the future.
• 32:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Seriously, the fact that Taylor didn't give up on math.
• 32:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or herself, even though she was basically set up to fail, is something I'm still processing.
• 32:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like the system literally told her that math just wasn't her thing.
• 32:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: She shouldn't bother trying too hard.
• 32:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Her friends just were naturally better than her.
• 32:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like she should just basically give up any hope of getting anything above the bare minimum of passing.
• 33:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like what kind of messaging is that for a kid?
• 33:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: I have two major takeaways from this conversation.
• 33:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: First, Taylor could have listened to all that messaging and she could have quite understandably, just given up.
• 33:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: She didn't, she decided that if her friends could do it, so could she, and she was determined not to give up on math or herself.
• 33:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: But the second takeaway is that she wouldn't have been able to turn things around without the right support.
• 33:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: She needed the trust and safety to tell her teachers she didn't understand something without feeling she was like a burden or a nuisance.
• 33:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: She needed her tutor to treat her like a real complex human, not just a cardboard box being rushed down an educational assembly line.
• 33:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: And she needed her parents to be supportive and encouraging while celebrating the little wins and not putting unreasonable pressure on her.
• 33:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: I could go on and on about what I loved about this episode, but you just listened to it and you don't need to hear from me anymore.
• 33:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna hear from you.
• 33:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Text the podcast, by hitting the link in your show notes.
• 34:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Send me an email at vanessa@themathgu.ca or dm me on Instagram at themathguru.
• 34:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Links all of those are in the episode description.
• 34:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Finally, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast feed because next week we are celebrating a truly shocking milestone, the hundredth episode of Math Therapy.
• 34:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're going to be reflecting on the wild ride we've been on since starting the show back in 2019 and talking about what lies ahead for Math Therapy, now that we've moved to a weekly format.
• 34:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: And of course, a reminder that Math Therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vakharia, produced and edited by David Kochberg, and the music you hear is by me and David's band Goodnight Sunrise.
• 34:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: ​So we're gonna wrap up with the final two questions.
• 34:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 34:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is your mom sitting right next to you, like waiting for me to be finished?
• 34:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God, just glaring at me.
• 34:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 34:53
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: love her.
• 34:53
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: It's due at three.
• 34:54
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: She says it's due at
• 34:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 34:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 34:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Question number one.
• 34:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: If there was one thing you could change about the way math, oh my God.
• 35:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Who's walking in the room now?
• 35:03
  Taylor Telfer-Thompson: A dog.
• 35:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: If there's, if there's one thing you could change about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?