Latest / Your Estate Matters / Episode 60 - How to Safeguard Your Disabled Loved Ones in Your Estate Plan with Hugh McLellan
Transcript
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</script><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">var DOCS_timing={}; DOCS_timing['pls']=new Date().getTime();</script><meta property="og:title" content="YEM ep60 Hugh McLellan Transcript"><meta property="og:type" content="article"><meta property="og:site_name" content="Google Docs"><meta property="og:url" content="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZWl9UJDYtWV0vNBtHhgrT7X2taSbX0tnpI_qThLRh58/edit?usp=sharing&usp=embed_facebook"><meta property="og:image" content="https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docs/AHkbwyIxzdy_uJ_dhFGdCHFETln3JdvCrgvep5ekebosmMERaZcNfhd1S4_TUWSLeIIFxPzGxYTIpPDXeS1EBj6EvJkkOzksCfKx_5xT60HOibHIIW7P3-Cd=w1200-h630-p"><meta property="og:image:width" content="1200"><meta property="og:image:height" content="630"><meta property="og:description" content="Nicole Garton 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to your Estate Matters presented by Heritage Trust. Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy. If it's estate related, we'll be talking about it. We're having the conversations today ..."><meta name="google" content="notranslate"><meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, user-scalable=no, initial-scale=1.0, minimum-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0"><meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge;"><meta name="fragment" content="!"><meta name="referrer" content="origin"><title>YEM ep60 Hugh McLellan Transcript - Google Docs</title><link rel="shortcut icon" href="https://ssl.gstatic.com/docs/documents/images/docs-favicon-2026-v2.ico"><link rel="chrome-webstore-item" href="https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/apdfllckaahabafndbhieahigkjlhalf"><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">_docs_webfonts_fontFaces = null; _docs_webfonts_iframe_fontFaces = null;DOCS_timing['wpid']=new Date().getTime();</script><style 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nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":1,"s":" \nNicole Garton 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to your Estate Matters presented by Heritage Trust. Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy. If it\u0027s estate related, we\u0027ll be talking about it. We\u0027re having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets and their legacies tomorrow. Hello and welcome to your Estate Matters. I\u0027m Nicole Garton. Today, we\u0027re talking about estate planning for disabled beneficiaries in British Columbia. Over 6 million Canadians aged 15 and older identifies having one or more disabilities. That is roughly 22% of the population, and as their population ages, that number is only going to grow. For parents and grandparents, there is nothing more important than knowing that a child or grandchild with a disability would be looked after when there are no longer here. But the planning is much more complex than most people expect, and the consequences of getting it wrong can be significant. I\u0027m delighted to be joined today by someone who spent his entire career working at the intersection of estate planning, estate litigation and elder law.\n \nNicole Garton 00:01:15 Hugh McLellan is a partner at McLellan Herbert Locke in Vancouver. He is the founding vice chair and past chair of the Canadian Bar Association\u0027s National Elder Law Section, and the founding chair of the CBA\u0027s B.C. Elder Law subsection. He\u0027s a former chairman of the CBA Wills and Trusts subsection in Vancouver. He has served on multiple law reform committees dealing with adult guardianship and wills and estates. He\u0027s the co-editor of the Financial and Estate Planning for the Mature Client in British Columbia, published by LexisNexis and a contributor to the B.C. Representation Act, Adult Guardianship Act and related Statutes, published by Carswell and a member of the editorial board of the Estate Disputes in British Columbia. A Litigators guide established by Kelly. He\u0027s been recognized as best lawyer in Canada in wills and Estates, and in 2004, he received the CBA BC Community Service Award for his involvement with mental health and elder law issues. He continues to serve as a director of charitable organizations supporting challenge members in the community. So Hugh, thank you so much for being here. It\u0027s amazing to have you and to have a leader in this area, and we\u0027re really grateful for you spending the time with us.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:02:30 Oh you\u0027re welcome, Nicole, thank you for inviting me.\n \nNicole Garton 00:02:32 So you founded the elder law section at the Canadian Bar Association, both nationally and in BC. And you\u0027ve been involved in elder law and reforming adult guardianship for decades. So tell me, what drew you to this work? What was your interest in it?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:02:50 Well, going way back when I was a child, we had a family friend who had a child that had a developmental disability. So I was exposed to that very early on. And then when I made my way through school and law school, I articled to a fellow by the name of Bruce McCall, who was the chair of the Community Living Society, and he invited me to be the parliamentarian at their annual general meeting. So that really gave me exposure to that whole community living movement, and that I eventually became a director. And in my practice, we started doing work for the public trustee at the time, now the public Guardian and trustee. And so that gave me further exposure to this whole area.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:03:39 And it was just an area of interest.\n \nNicole Garton 00:03:42 So you\u0027ve been involved in community organizations supporting people with disabilities. Tell us about that and how that shaped your approach to helping clients and families?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:03:52 It\u0027s a factor in that. It gives you further exposure to see how families actually deal with the real world in if they have a child with a developmental disability, or perhaps a parent that\u0027s going through early stages of Alzheimer\u0027s, that sort of thing. 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":8498,"s":" \nNicole Garton 00:09:01 Let\u0027s talk about the people that we support. You know, often there\u0027s families and they count to us because they have a disabled child or grandchild or other beneficiary. You know, when they come to you to the meeting, tell me what they talk about and what their biggest concerns are.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:09:18 I would say the biggest concern is what is going to happen to my child when I pass away or I\u0027m no longer able to do it. And that, frankly, motivates most people to start the planning process when they get to that stage.\n \nNicole Garton 00:09:35 And let\u0027s talk about that, because as lawyers, we often help them with documents and respective financial planning or documents that the disabled individual can do. But what about community supports like? Could you tell our listeners about things like plan and other resources that are available to families?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:09:59 Yes, there definitely are other resources. The Disability Alliance that plan, which is a plan, lifetime advocacy network. They are an excellent organization that helps people think about what happens when you\u0027re gone and you have left a child with a disability, an adult child.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:10:21 Now, what sort of network can be put in place to help carry on? What you as a parent have been trying to do? So those are very important.\n \nNicole Garton 00:10:32 And they\u0027re a made in BC organization. And they were the leaders in the DSP movement. Do you want to tell the listeners about that.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:10:41 The plan is a BC based organization, but the really national in scope. They\u0027ve done so much for people that fit within this community. And the establishment of the registered disability savings program probably is the greatest thing that they\u0027ve been able to do to help all Canadians that have disabilities.\n \nNicole Garton 00:11:04 Do you want to tell people what the DSP is and what it offers? Sure.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:11:08 So if someone qualifies to set up an DSP, then they can place funds into this. It\u0027s kind of like a registered retirement savings plan. But what it means is you can add money to it, and the government will provide a grant or a bond for a certain amount of money over time. So you can really build up the investment.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:11:35 There\u0027s a maximum of $200,000 that can be placed into an DSP and there are restrictions on taking money out. The whole idea is that you build up this pot and then at age 65, when you\u0027re going to lose your British Columbia disability benefits, then you\u0027ve got this other registered disability benefit to help you with the money accrues without a tax on it. But the main thing is really to think of it as a retirement plan, rather than something that you\u0027re going to use during your lifetime. You can withdraw the money. You will probably have to pay back some of the bonds and grants if you if you do that within a certain number of years. But generally it\u0027s a really good thing. And unfortunately, it\u0027s not extremely well known. But it\u0027s getting there. There\u0027s a lot more education that\u0027s been coming out on DSPs and more and more people are learning about them. And definitely if you have if you qualify for it, it\u0027s really a no brainer to set one up.\n \nNicole Garton 00:12:44 And so to qualify for it, generally the individual has to have the disability tax credit.\n \nNicole Garton 00:12:51 Do you want to talk about that?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:12:52 Yeah. So in order to get the disability tax credit, which is a federal program, I guess you could call it under our income tax regime, a person has to have a long-standing disability of some sort, some impairment, and it has to be certified by a medical practitioner. 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":12741,"s":" \nNicole Garton 00:13:44 Filing the tax return is important. And I noticed sometimes families that I talked to will say, you know, we\u0027re the cost of living is so high, we\u0027re really struggling to support our disabled person.\n \nNicole Garton 00:13:57 You know, money\u0027s so tight, but even small, even just opening the door up and even relatively small amounts entitles the individual to those government grants that they can be actually quite beneficial. So. And you can walk into bank branches and have one of the planners there help you to open it up. But even relatively modest deposits still can result in quite valuable benefits. Do you notice that people aren\u0027t necessarily aware of that?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:14:28 Or as I say, I think over time we\u0027ve seen more education on it. And so more and more people are becoming aware of these benefits. Certainly, if I have clients that come to me. Years ago, when it first came out, hardly anybody knew anything about it. People that did know about it would go to their bank, and the banks didn\u0027t know anything about it. But over time, it\u0027s definitely improved a lot. And I would say more often than not, clients are now coming to me when I mention our DSPs. They say, oh yes, we\u0027ve got one set up for our child.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:15:03 One of the biggest concerns about our DSPs is planning for who\u0027s going to take over after the person that set up the plan passes away. And so that\u0027s planning that ought to happen as well as part of this whole process.\n \nNicole Garton 00:15:18 So the individual that sets it up is the subscriber. And it\u0027s often the parent. And I see this a lot where trusts fall into our trust company for example for disabled individuals. There\u0027s an DSP out there. Mum or dad was a subscriber, but there\u0027s no backup subscriber. So that\u0027s something that I noticed as well. And then people often say, oh, can we put the DSP funds into the trust? Well you can\u0027t. You got to find a backup subscriber. If the disabled individual has enough capacity, they could potentially be the backup subscriber.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:15:56 That\u0027s and the other way that we sometimes can help in that area is if the disabled person does a section seven representation agreement because they don\u0027t need to have full legal capacity to make a section seven representation agreement, they then can appoint a representative who can then select the replacement person for the DSP.\n \nNicole Garton 00:16:19 So that\u0027s a great segue. So let\u0027s talk about planning for the disabled individual. So you know there\u0027s a huge continuum of disability. So, you know, some people are born with a disability. Other people acquire it through illness or injury. Some people have functional limitations about aging. So how does the nature of the disability affect the planning conversation, and how does that lead into that tool? You. You talked about the section seven representation agreement.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:16:50 The nature of the disability is important for the professionals to know while they\u0027re trying to craft a plan, because a young person that might have a developmental disability is not going to have the same plan as an elderly person that\u0027s suffering from Alzheimer\u0027s. You need to know that you need to know a lot about their family, what supports they have, what the financial circumstances are. Quite a bit of information that you\u0027ll need to craft an appropriate plan.\n \nNicole Garton 00:17:17 So let\u0027s talk about planning for those disabled individuals and talk about what the options are.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:17:24 Sure. Well one of the first questions is capacity.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:17:27 Does the person have capacity to do this sort of planning? 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":16895,"s":" \nNicole Garton 00:18:07 So but let\u0027s talk about the disabled person themselves and that idea of the section seven representation agreement. Maybe you can tell people what that is and what the other options are if they don\u0027t have enough capacity for that.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:18:22 Sure. Well, let me explain about representation agreements. First of all, I was quite involved in the law reform that resulted in representation agreements starting way back in the 1980s. Eventually, it came into law in the year 2000, but the original plan was to replace a power of attorney, which most people know is a document where you appoint someone to handle financial affairs and legal affairs with a representation agreement, so the representative would not only be able to handle financial and legal affairs, but also make health and personal care decisions if the donor of the instrument was later incapable.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:19:04 Now, eventually the government changed that. And you can have two types of representation agreements. Section seven is a basic one or a limited one, and the section nine is the more comprehensive one that would deal with all types of health care and personal care decision making. So you can\u0027t use a section nine representation agreement these days to handle finances. You need your enduring power of attorney for that, and you have to have full mental capacity in order to make a section nine representation agreement. But the community recognized and the government accepted that there are a lot of people that are not able to make a section nine agreement, but it\u0027s not appropriate that you go get a court order to have someone handle their affairs. So the Representation Agreement Act allows for the creation of a section seven representation agreement, which can be made by a person that does not have full legal capacity. Basically, they have to understand that they need help with decision making and that they trust the person who they\u0027re picking as a representative. There are some built in safeguards for monitors.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:20:22 and that sort of thing. But the section seven representation agreement not only would cover basic health and personal care decision making, but also routine financial affairs and legal affairs, with some exceptions. Basically, the act and the regulations set out what can and cannot be done by a section seven representation agreement. But it\u0027s a great tool for people to say that have some level of developmental disability, but understand that they still need help with making decisions or people that are in an early stages of Alzheimer\u0027s who unfortunately didn\u0027t do the planning that they ought to have done, created the enduring power of attorney, created the section nine representation agreement. They still could perhaps do a section seven representation agreement.\n \nNicole Garton 00:21:11 So that\u0027s helpful. Let\u0027s talk about what happens if the person doesn\u0027t meet the threshold of a section seven. What can a family do?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:21:20 Okay. There are people that just cannot meet that level. And it\u0027s not just a question of communication, because there\u0027s all sorts of ways a person can communicate that aren\u0027t the standard ways, but it\u0027s still acceptable.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:21:34 But there are people that will be so disabled that they\u0027re not able to even do a section seven representation agreement in order for someone to assist a person that is in that category, then we have a default system in our Patients Property Act. And so you would apply to court to get what\u0027s called a committee of a state to handle financial affairs, legal affairs, or comment and or committee, a person to handle personal and medical decision making. Now that process takes a number of months. It requires doctors to provide affidavits of incapacity. 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So doing this planning in advance will save a lot of money.\n \nNicole Garton 00:22:54 So let\u0027s pivot and talk about. Often, it\u0027s mom and dad. It might be grandparents or other family members. So they\u0027ve got a beneficiary who has a disability. What is sort of best practice in terms of planning?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:23:12 Well, every person should have a will because everybody is going to die. It\u0027s amazing how many people don\u0027t do wills. How you craft the will when you have a person that\u0027s a beneficiary; that\u0027s under a disability will be slightly different. But the person doing the estate plan should also be doing an enduring power of attorney and a section nine representation agreement. So those would be the basics. Then you want to look at whether a trust is appropriate for the situation. That is a trust that\u0027s outside of the will. For example, there might be an insurance policy. You might want to set up a trust to cover the insurance proceeds, life insurance proceeds. Or perhaps you want to set up a trust for the disabled person with your disabled child, say, while you\u0027re still alive.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:24:06 Maybe some benefit in doing that.\n \nNicole Garton 00:24:08 Let\u0027s talk about the will. What\u0027s common in a will when one of the beneficiaries is disabled?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:24:13 In most cases, you\u0027re looking at setting up a trust for the disabled person and that trust. There\u0027s some technical requirements in order for this to work properly, in order to maintain the disabled persons other benefits that they\u0027re receiving outside of the deceased persons estate. So most people in British Columbia that have a disability that qualify for our British Columbia disability benefits program will lose those benefits if they receive an amount of money that puts them over the limit. So in British Columbia, to qualify for the disability benefits, you have to meet both an asset and an income test. And the asset test for an individual is $100,000. There are other exceptions to that. But if you are a parent and you left your child a quarter of your estate, and that is that quarter is worth $300,000. Well, that child is going to receive $300,000. They\u0027re going to be cut off their disability benefits. And so to avoid that, you want to make sure that child share is going to be held in a, in a trust that works.\n \nNicole Garton 00:25:30 And so it preserves their benefits. But it also allows a hopefully competent person to manage the funds for their benefit.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:25:41 Absolutely. Now some people have disabilities that aren\u0027t too severe such that they can manage their own trust. That may work depending on the amount involved, because British Columbia does have a limit of $200,000 for what they call a non-discretionary trust, where the person could be their own trustee, for example. Or there\u0027s certain specified payouts under that trust as it\u0027s set up. But if you\u0027re going to have a fully discretionary trust, if the amounts over $200,000, it has to be an independent trustee that\u0027s managing that. And that leads to a question of who\u0027s going to do that once the person has passed away. That\u0027s something that typically the parent would have been doing. But then that leads to the consideration of who the trustee ought to be.\n \nNicole Garton 00:26:33 So let\u0027s talk about that. How do families choose who should be the trustee of these funds? 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DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart = new Date().getTime(); DOCS_initialLoadTiming.incrementTime('mp', DOCS_modelChunkLoadStart - DOCS_modelChunkParseStart); DOCS_warmStartDocumentLoader.loadModelChunk(DOCS_modelChunk); DOCS_modelChunk = undefined;</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunkParseStart = new Date().getTime();</script><script nonce="700xP7wbbZ4vtm-KpAN3cA">DOCS_modelChunk = {"chunk":[{"ty":"is","ibi":25638,"s":" \nNicole Garton 00:27:39 So we talked about the different options for parents and also the individual. And given that you\u0027ve been such a leader in this area, you know, in 2014, we really cleaned up and modernized a state law in British Columbia. We came up with the Wills, Estates and Succession Act that sort of consolidated eight different pieces of legislation.\n \nNicole Garton 00:28:04 But the adult guardianship legislation is still what some people might say is archaic. It\u0027s the Patients Property Act. What are your thoughts about that? Is it due for modernization? What do you think the future is and how we can better serve families?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:28:20 The law reform that started in the 1980s worked well through the 1990s and eventually resulted in the passing of the Adult Guardianship Act and proclamation in 2000, contained a section that replaced the Patient\u0027s Property Act. The old Archaic Patients Property Act that dealt with the court appointed committees. The government didn\u0027t proclaim that section into force. So we\u0027re still left with this very old legislation. I mean, this this legislation basically goes back to the Lunacy Act and 1920s, roughly. It\u0027s a very paternalistic approach to assisting people with disabilities. Other provinces have moved towards reforming the law in that area and improving it. British Columbia still has a way to go now. They have definitely improved some areas. One of the areas they have improved on is the statutory committee, Schip, where the public guardian and trustee would automatically come into play.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:29:30 Now they\u0027ve improved that a lot with various requirements of examinations and notifying people and that sort of thing. But the basic court process is still the same. You\u0027re either fully capable or fully incapable. Well, the reality is that it\u0027s a continuum of how capable you are. And somewhere along the line, you get over the point where you now need someone to make decisions for you. But in British Columbia, you’re going to if you if you hit that for one thing, you are going to lose all of your rights to make any decisions with respect to either financial or personal health care decision making. So at some point, I can see that there will be more crafted plans and orders that will result in a specific plan for a person dealing with a level of incapacity that that person has. But we\u0027re not there yet.\n \nNicole Garton 00:30:35 So let\u0027s go back to that updated statutory provision. Very few people in the public really are aware of it. Do you want to talk about what happens in that process exactly?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:30:47 Sure. So typically it arises where there\u0027s some problem and the person may be being taken advantage of.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:30:56 It may be that they\u0027re neglecting themselves. And that comes to light typically through one of the health care systems, but it might be a bank that that reports it. The individual will be examined by a doctor and determined to be incapable of managing their affairs. And so there is a process that a certificate of incapability is issued for that person. And the result of that automatically appoints the public guardian and trustee to manage that person\u0027s financial and legal affairs. And so the public guardian and trustee, once they\u0027re appointed, if it hasn\u0027t already been done, they\u0027ll be examining the situation to determine, hey, is there a family member out there that could take this on? And then they\u0027re happy to pass on that to the family member. That family member, of course, would have to apply to get the court order, but at least it\u0027s being done by a family member now. But sometimes it\u0027s the family member that\u0027s abusing this person. 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So the Mental Health Act would apply. If a person is either a danger to themselves or a danger to others, there will be apprehended. They\u0027ll be taken to a facility and can be given treatment. The result of that also is that the public guardian and trustee will manage that person\u0027s affairs. But typically the Mental Health Act is a relatively temporary apprehension, and there are ways to, have that reviewed and that sort of thing. But it can also lead to further involvement of the health and public guardian and trustee.\n \nNicole Garton 00:33:19 And you go in front of a panel on regular intervals to have it either renewed or not renewed.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:33:26 Isn\u0027t that right? Yeah. If you\u0027re into that system, then there are reviews that are required at certain periods of time, and it can be extended for certain periods of time as well.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:33:38 But a lot of times people will come out of it and then they\u0027re suddenly getting support now, or they might not have been getting it before. Or perhaps, family members will become involved and you get a committee ship or something like that.\n \nNicole Garton 00:33:55 So I think what we see as practitioners on the ground is often people haven\u0027t done the proactive planning that you talked about. You know, the families in crisis and this system is complicated and somewhat opaque. And then, you know, the Patients Property Act is older legislation. If you were appointed the attorney general one day and you were allowed to change this, what would you what would you do? 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Plan. there are people out there that don\u0027t know where to start.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:37:02 They have this issue. They know it\u0027s going to be an issue and they\u0027re worried about it. But start the planning. Talk to the professionals and involve trust companies. There\u0027s lots of assistance you can get from various institutions as well. of course, with the internet, everybody can Google and get information that way. So there\u0027s a lot of information out there to get your mind thinking about it. And then when it comes time to do the planning, make sure you, you pick somebody that knows what they\u0027re doing. If you\u0027ve got a person with a disability. There are certain technical requirements that have to be met. And not everybody, not every accountant or lawyer is necessarily familiar with those.\n \nNicole Garton 00:37:45 So speaking of that, how can people find you?\n \nHugh McLellan 00:37:48 We\u0027re on the internet. It\u0027s McLellan Herbert Locke LLP, and it\u0027s, www.McLellanHerbertLocke.com.\n \nNicole Garton 00:37:57 Thank you so much, Hugh.\n \nHugh McLellan 00:37:58 Thank you. Nicole.\n \nNicole Garton 00:37:59 This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered individual, legal, financial, or tax advice.\n \nNicole Garton 00:38:06 Make sure to consult the advisor of your choice to advise you on your own circumstances.\n \nNicole Garton 00:38:14 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Your Estate Matters. If you like this podcast, make sure to follow it on your podcast platform of choice. Whether you\u0027re planning your own estate or you\u0027re acting as executor for somebody else\u0027s heritage, trust can help partner with Heritage Trust to protect your family, your assets, and your legacy. If you\u0027d like more information about Heritage Trust, please visit our website at Heritage Trust. 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