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Aging as an Endurance Athlete: Mindset, Potential and Staying Competitive · The Endurance Athlete Journey

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome everyone to the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Coach Justin.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Coach Katie.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: And today's episode is 129, and we're going to be extending one of our previous series that we did.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: We had a three-part series where it was talking about aging as an endurance athlete, some of the different training methods, and some of the things to consider as you age.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that we never got to cover was the mental side of aging as an endurance athlete.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to circle back and append this to that series and talk about what are some of the different things that have to change as we get older.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, how do we mentally account for these changes?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does our training methods need to change?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I believe so.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you mentally handle those changes?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to racing, how do you change your point of reference?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, whether you're now judging your performance differently as we get older, you know, are you now still chasing PRs or personal bests, or are you maybe making your performance a little bit more relative?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: So some of the things that we wanted to circle back on and talk about, you know, as coaches and and aging athletes ourselves, how do we approach the mental side of training now as we come into the more wisdom-based time period uh of our training?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we thank you guys for joining us today.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Katie, let's actually talk a little bit about you know how your training is going and and uh provide some a little bit of insight there.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh just to do an update.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's going well, I I think.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did my like high rocks, uh latest high rocks or highway to high rocks this week.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: There I think it went out on Thursdays.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you really want to know, you can dive into that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so I've been struggling as as people know who were listening to that, struggling a bit with just how to place everything into the training plan.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did a 5K, what was it last week?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess it's like it seems like it was longer than a week ago, but uh I just had to kind of pivot at some point and realize that it was really hard to train for a 5K and do that sort of zone five kind of um almost BO2 max type of specific 5K training and train for HIROX because HIROX is so specific to like sort of being in this threshold and it's like an hour to an hour and a half of total time, and it's just a very different than a 5k in terms of the demands.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to kind of make a a decision to like pick one or the other and sort of decided since I'd signed up for this HIROX and and was putting so much effort into it, I was gonna sort of really focus on that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the 5K went okay.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard not to be disappointed when this goes into this whole discussion we're gonna have about masters, athletes, and kind of this thought in my head is like, is am I now slowing down because my time was slower than last year?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it is this starting?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Am I starting to experience this natural slowdown, or do I still I still feel good?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I still feel like I can run fast, but is this finally starting to get me, or is it just the fact that I wasn't able to do this very specific, specific 5K training?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: When you when you're getting older, those thoughts start to come into your head a little bit.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I um, you know, I I I have to kind of tell myself, like, no, I've been really focused on doing a lot of like threshold stuff, doing a lot of like high rocks workouts, which make you fit, but they're not very specific to a 5K.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to keep reminding myself of what I'm doing and the work I'm putting in.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully it'll mean I do fairly well in that high rocks.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the other thing is I don't really have anything to compare that to, so it'll be what it is.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm trying to prepare myself the best.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yesterday I did a threshold run.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I've been and I did a like a it was high rocks, but it was a weird workout today.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was mostly arm strength, which is probably good for me because I don't do a lot of upper body.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I usually focus mostly on my lower body strength, but um, it's been good.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've also been implementing some of these like squattober workouts.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do them like they're prescribed like every single day, Monday through Friday.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of do them throughout the month of October and then it kind of extends into November because I can only do like three or four of them a week and not be totally blasted and unable to to to do other things because they are strength-based workouts.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But and you have to remember, I'm not like a so my one re one rep max isn't very heavy, so it's not as though they're extremely heavy or anything.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just doing them sort of not maybe full, full on.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I am doing I'm kind of keeping keeping them a little bit lighter if I need to, but I just like I just like it's fun, so I've been doing those.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been I don't know, I think I've been doing okay.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've been trying to do two hard workout, two harder days, and then like a day or two easy, and then two that seems to be working for me pretty well.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just I don't know, it's been really hard to spread things out and figure out the recovery side, and so sometimes doing like uh a run specific workout and then a high rock specific workout the next day, and then having a day or two off seems to be working better than trying to spread it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the way it's been working out with my schedules.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, how have you been?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: How have you how was your training?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Things are going well, so um I'm in the off-season block of of training, so I'm back in the weight room.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this week has actually been I it started off actually better than I expected.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I did purposely roll back kind of like my weight targets in the weight room, but you know, I seem to handle them actually pretty well and really excited.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm testing out a new uh a new strength training method on how I actually execute these workouts and see if it works.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so maybe I'll once I kind of figure out you know how well it's working, maybe I'll bring that on to the podcast and talk about that approach that I'm using.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I also you know spent the weekend at Lake Anna uh at the Pleasant's Landing trathlon by Kinetic Multisports.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had an athlete that was racing there, and it was the last race of their season, and it was the last race on the race day coaching tour uh that I was doing this summer.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was a fantastic day.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: My my athlete grabbed a podium, she was first in her age group, so she took an age group win.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So shout out to Chris and Payton for a fantastic performance that you had.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just an overall great event.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't say enough positive things about kinetic multi-sports.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're I'm I know I am so blessed to have them in my backyard.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Greg, the race director, who uh who owns the company, he's been so gracious to allow me to come out to his races and do transition clinics for athletes during packet pickup and just to be be there on site and you know help athletes as much as I as I can answering questions and providing strategy to them and you know just trying to at least ease some of the anxiousness of new people that are coming into the sport, and this is their first race, and they don't know kind of like really what to do.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it it's been a fantastic experiment this year, and so I'm really looking forward to stepping up next year and and continuing the race day coaching tour and maybe stepping in and actually becoming a sponsor for a couple of the races uh for kinetic multi-sports.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it was this was a really good experiment and really, really happy with the results.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: It had it didn't really turn into a case where I I picked up new athletes, but I think I created new connections.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, it it really did help me as a person, you know, kind of break out of of my shell in terms of you know how to start conversations because I'm truly like an introvert, so that's really like outside of my comfort zone.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I think it was it was really helpful from from a personal standpoint as a and as a professional standpoint.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So Tabula Rasa racing has been you know put out there so there's a little bit more exposure, so people kind of know to look for us.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And there were conversations that I had earlier in the season at early races, and they were circling back at next races and you know later into the season, and you know, they were coming back and you know they recognized who we were.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really good feedback for that kind of thing.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So super thrilled.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still I'm still trying to plan out you know 2027 for you know what we're going to be able to do, because I have some ambitious race goals as well.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to juggle, you know, being a business owner and an athlete as well.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, it's been busy.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So busy.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, busy, busy.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but yeah, let's let's step into this episode a little bit and let's what how do you want to start the conversation?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll over to you on uh getting the ball rolling.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I think like from my perspective, it's I mean maybe we could share a little bit of our own um journeys and uh uh uh because we're both in that master's category, and I think maybe for me it's just sort of starting out into this journey a little bit.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I maybe maybe it would be helpful if we kind of share ways that we're dealing or struggling or thinking about it, and then we can kind of dive into some maybe just some suggestions or some ideas around it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Either of us are psychologists or um mental health professionals.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think people I don't think or I don't want people to think like, hey, this is how we're saying you need to deal with this, or this is how how we would say like you you need to um that you know that we're we're prescribing anything in terms of how to cope with the mental side.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's more just coming from our perspective and some things that we're thinking about or that we would suggest people think about when it comes to this, because um, for me it's just uh, you know, I want to be able to continue to enjoy the these sports or continue to be active as I age.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I'm thinking a lot about it for myself.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I also want other people to, you know, I want the same thing for other people.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I want my friends and and the people that are around me that are also engaging in these sports.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to hear that somebody stopped because they were older and they couldn't find, you know, they couldn't be competitive any in it anymore.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just kind of having these thoughts around how do you deal with that?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe how do you come up with new goals or how do you experience these sports a little differently, or what do you focus on?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, none of us are, you know, most of us listening probably aren't professionals, so it's not as though this is our um prof, you know, we're not making money doing this, and we're all doing it because we like it.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just trying to figure out how to get that enjoyment out of it even as we age and maybe those numbers, the the PRs are no longer something we're chasing, but what else can we focus on or chase?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's okay to still be competitive.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I think the biggest thing is you don't have to stop being competitive just because you're getting older.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just how does that change?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do those goals change as we get older and how do we deal with some of the disappointment or the frustrations that happen, you know, when we can know when we're no when we're realizing we're no longer chasing, you know, so personal tests.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: What does competition look like to you now?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, for me, I think it's still I still feel like I'm able to be f somewhat competitive.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So for me now it's it's like this.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I'm never like I already have kind of come to the realization that I may I'm not going to be as fast as I was in my 20s.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get some frustration or some sadness knowing that that that like in my twenties, I think I would have been capable of running, I don't think I would have been maybe capable of doing a marathon at like 230 or something incredible like that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I could have ran like a 250 marathon or something close to that or maybe faster.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I just don't think I quite had the nutrition right.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I had the training perfect.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of realizing that like I'll never be able to do that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever I was maybe fully capable of, like whatever my full potential would have been in that particular race is never going to be realized.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I still could potentially, if I really wanted to go for it again, I could potentially get a PR and that would be great.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I could potentially even do that in my 40s, but I'll never be able to be as good as I have the best I could have ever been.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I I think I'm grappling with that and realizing that.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Same with like the 5K and some of those faster races.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, to be honest with you, like this is crazy to some people, but I know, like in college, I ran a pretty fast 5K, but I don't know the exact time because nowadays, like back then, it was it wasn't like recorded on Strava or you would have had to physically write it down.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you can find times online from back then, you know, in the early 2000s, but not everything is was online as much as it is now in terms of race results.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So like I know I ran, but I don't know the exact time.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it I guess that's good for me in some ways because now that I'm now and I'm running like these faster 5Ks, I'm like, I don't even know if I was running this fast in my 30s, but I know I probably ran faster than this in my 20s, um, and maybe even in college, but I don't remember my time.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: My I don't actually know what my very personal best is.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I do for the marathon, but not the 5K, and not really for anything faster than that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe a 10K, I kind of have an idea, but it was so you know, that's kind of a nice thing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I know, so right now it's like I still feel like I can get a little bit faster, even than I am now in the 5K.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's really liberating, where maybe that's one of the good things about um a not tracking every single thing because you're just in the moment and you're not writing everything down, and I never track times, which I know some people are so religious about tracking workouts and writing everything down.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the benefits of not doing that, because I have no idea.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um so I'm like, oh, well, you know, I know eight 18 something was probably faster than or as fast as I was ever ever able to run in my 30s.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I if I'm really focused and really focused in my training and all of this, I think I can still maintain that sort of pace.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's still, I'm still there where I'm like, I can still run pretty fast.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm never what I I'm never gonna reach the potential I could have reached had I been a bit smarter about training and nutrition in my 20s.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel I still have some speed and some ability.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm at this point now where I'm just trying to hang on to it as long as possible, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like how long?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's this fear, like I mentioned in the intro when we're talking about like this recent 5K I did.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is are some of like is it starting to slow down?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: When is gonna be that moment where I'm like, yeah, I'm really working hard, I'm training really hard, or training just as hard as I did the last time I ran this, and it's this time is now slowing.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like I know that's coming.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when, because it happens a little differently for everyone.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sure, I can maybe make it into my mid-40s or late 40s and still run some fast marathons, but when is that going to happen where my body's just like, yep, nope, this is it, you know?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it happens to us all.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: We can't just continuously run fast, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it and sometimes some people have a quicker decline than others.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just that that's where I'm at now is this sort of like, I want to hang on and I want to keep training and I want to keep doing.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm grappling with that knowing that's coming and trying to figure out what I'm going to do at that point.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how am I gonna how is my relationship with the sport going to change and how am I going to adapt at that point?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know it's coming, it hasn't come yet.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still trying to hang on, I'm still trying to be like in the moment and and take what I can get, but I I don't know, you know, so it's kind of like I know it's around the corner.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there there's this a weird place to be, I think.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of athletes can relate to that who are kind of in the same age bracket as I am in their early to mid forties.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think um that's where I am, is just trying to grapple with what's gonna happen when I do realize I'm slowing down and how am I gonna how how am I going to cope with that?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like where are you at with it or what do you know?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, my relationship with with endurance sports is effectively the same as it's always been.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think I might be a little bit on the luckier side in that I didn't start my my journey until I was 35.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't have any of that that early potential performance stuff that I could that I can draw on.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: My my potential is, you know, what did I do at 35 in my in my ramp up to Iron Man.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, what I'm seeing now actually, and I've I've been going through my data and you know, doing some analysis on my performance, doing some longitudinal studies of the data that I've been collecting over the years, and I'm actually seeing really significant improvement in some pieces of of my intern in my training.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for instance, the bike stuff, I'm I'm performing better than I ever have have been before.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the performance that I'm seeing today is significantly better than it's ever been.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the swimming, on the other hand, is is not.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm writing that off to you know the the structural issues that I've that I've dealt with in my in my shoulders in the surgeries, but I'm actually starting to see progress now.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So some of the old swim progress and and performance that I used to have, uh I'm starting to see glimpses of it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's been reassuring that uh that the potential for performance is still there.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, whether that potential will ever be observed or not, I I don't really know.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I still find hope in that, well, if if I continue to to to go along this trajectory, I may see it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also okay with not seeing it because I know that okay, well, you know, yeah, I'm I'm going to be 50 next year, you know, so that's fine.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to compete against other 50-year-olds.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think my idea and how I choose to look at this performance is that I'm kind of moving away from a performance perspective, and now I'm I'm using more of a competitive perspective.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I don't know if we see the word competitive the same way.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the way that I view yeah, the way that I view competitive is that I can choose to compete against the clock, or I can choose to compete against others that are in my age group.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I'm looking for performance, then you know, I'm looking to see, you know, how well did I execute this race, how well did I execute the effort and the performance, you know, how strategic was I, you know, in my execution?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, were there things outside of my control that affected my performance?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that, you know, I'm not just saying, oh, I didn't execute this well.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: There were there were things that that prohibited me from executing it well that were outside of my control.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now the way that I view this is that I've I think I've gotten enough experience and wisdom now towards it's like, you know what, I'm I'm gonna stop chasing performance and I'm gonna start chasing competitiveness.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to be careful on how I define competitiveness.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: My best 70.3 time is a 609 that I got at in Charleston, South Carolina one time.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it was by far, you know, one of my best performing races.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was it my best execution?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I honestly don't know if it if it was if I would characterize it as like that's the race that I executed the best.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So now as I'm doing my ramp up, you know, eventually to get back to full Iron Man, I've got a couple 70.3s that are on my radar, and I'm starting to look, okay, how can I train in such a way that allows me the potential for a PR?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can get down to six hours flat or maybe just go sub-six, just to take off nine minutes, I think that I can find performance in there that will give me the nine minutes that I need.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the question becomes is like, okay, well, if I don't get the nine minutes, how do I judge success?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I say, Well, I can judge success based on how well I executed.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a lot better at my nutrition side.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a lot better at my strategic thinking in terms of you know, when to hold back, when to go for it, how do I think of training?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now that I've gotten older.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Older, there's a new method that I'm starting to flush out.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I keep mentioning this new method in some of these episodes, but I don't want to like get too deep into it because I know that we have plans to really dedicate an entire episode to this method that I'm testing out.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm willing to try new things and different approaches because a way that used to work for me when I was, you know, 35, and you know, really what I would think maybe I can characterize as like the peak of my potential at that point in time.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: They may not work today.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't mean that I can't still possibly generate the same results.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the method that I have to go through to get me there may look different.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I like you said the word potential, and you know, you're comparing your potential, you know.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have the ability to perform to your potential as if there was an ultimate peak to that potential?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there is.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's this concept in in mathematics where you look at the a surface and there are peaks, multiple peaks on this surface.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, do you find an instance where you're trying to find the ultimate peak, which is along this surface, there's one point that is higher than all the rest of them.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: But think of this surface then as the span of time.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the peak potential is time dependent.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that was my potential between this start period and this ending period.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was my potential.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm at a different time period.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So now what's my potential?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it may be different, it may be lower, it may be higher, it may look different, it may be measured differently, it may be characterized in a different way.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And as you move along this surface of time, this potential can change and morph into different different levels.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, are we able to execute our ultimate potential?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really know because I don't think we know what our ultimate potential is until we're done.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I can say I'm no longer interested in chasing a recreation of what I think is my ultimate potential, I want to perform at what I'm able to do today.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is my potential today?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I can execute and perform according to that potential, then I consider it a success.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the things that I've been kind of grappling with as I've you know gotten older and I'm trying to get back to to long course racing.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've just come to the realization it's like, well, maybe those were fine then.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I still don't think I executed very good races then.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I still see the potential to execute a really good race that could actually see better performance than I did then.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it depends on how you measure it, I think.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it I I think I'm happy with just meeting my potential today and say, this is these are the cards that I've been dealt, this is what I have to work with.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna maximize those things today.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Does it get me back to to where I was before?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: It may or it may not.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I get I guess the question becomes is uh how do you handle the realization that you know it won't?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: That that you have indeed surpassed your ultimate peak of potential are is that is that is that sad?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't I don't really know if it's sad.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you said about like in the span of time, maybe your ultimate potential, like in my like I realized that whatever ultimate potential I had in my twenties is maybe not going to be realized now.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and I'm I think sometimes, yeah, everyone has those moments where they're like, I wish I could kind of go back and and redo it in the way that with what I know now in terms of nutrition and training.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think but there's no way to do that.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So but I've learned, I think those experiences have helped me learn.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then also like now thinking of it as like from a coaching perspective, I'm like, and a nutrition perspective, it's like, well, now I have an opportunity to take some of those things that I didn't do well or those mistakes I made and help turn that around for other people.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually kind of going back and helping people maybe help realize their potential if they're in as I work with a lot of like high school athlete, like cross-country runners and high school athletes, as well as some some individuals in their 20s who kind of now I'm like, oh, this is a let's make sure we maximize this and I'm going to take my own experience.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then maybe you don't have to learn the hard way, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and that's probably why it would have been maybe a good idea if I'd had somebody like myself to work with in my 20s, I probably would have benefited.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it's okay, you know.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I think perhaps then I wouldn't have be where I'm at now with the perspectives I have and the knowledge I have to maybe help others.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to say.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that, but now looking kind of where I'm at, um, kind of maybe in my 30s and into my 40s, I'm like, well, now I'm kind of I think I still have the potential to maybe reach some sort of max potential in this age frame.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is that question of like what happens when I, you know, slow down or, you know, or or like I've reached that potential and now maybe there's some sort of new potential that I have to start over, or I have to reset, you know, my expectations or what it means to be competitive.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where I am starting to think about focusing on um, maybe it is a focus on how am I doing in my I mean, this is dependent totally on who shows up, but how am I doing in my age category?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can I get top three in my age category or in master's category, which arguably because masters also encompasses people in their early 40s at some point, that might be hard to accomplish also to be top three in a master's category.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing too, sometimes you know, I've realized is it is interesting because now there's these age-graded performances.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: They have some calculations for that.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is it is possible, I think, to be able to run and train and then maybe using something like that to kind of see if you're if you're really focused on it being like, oh, was how would this have compared to when I was younger?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: To use some of those calculations, which I think have been thought out.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're not perfect, but to be like, oh, this is this is how fast I would have been age graded compared to, I don't know, somebody in their 20s maybe or their top-level athletes.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a way maybe to do it if you're still wanting to kind of see where you would have stacked up at any certain time, because there is this recognition that we slow down.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, that could be, you know, a strategy to be able to sort of be like, well, age graded, I want to do this.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of ways to do it if you still want to focus on time.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing, too, that I've given a lot of thought to is um changing, maybe focusing on something a little bit different, like the high rocks, where it's like, I have no, I have no idea.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I just there's no time I've ever had before.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm doing this, it's all gonna be something totally new to me.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned execution.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many aspects to it, just like triathlon.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the things that triathlon does have to it, an element of the race is how you execute and how you go through transition and how you fuel.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you could potentially, unless you've been doing it for years and years and years, and you think you've maximized that potential of execution.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but so many people maybe are in triathlon and they still have so so much they can work on, either they can improve their swim or their bike, or they can be better at running.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the nice thing about a sport like that is that you have there's a lot of elements to it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot you can work on and still improve.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is nice.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think also about high rocks is yeah, there's the running part that there's all these other little stations that and there's different ways to to strength train or to to train your running or to um even get better at like wall balls, which is like something I'm not very good at.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I have a lot of potential there to improve.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: So even if I did this one and was like, hey, I really want to keep doing this, I think because there's all these different elements in it, you can improve and you can focus and it gives you something to kind of focus on getting better at, and then you execute the race better.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's just slightly faster, or you just feel like instead of starting out too fast and blowing up, you were able to maintain a good pace throughout and didn't like totally you were able to um feel good throughout.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like there's other ways you can look at it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing I've been thinking about is just going back to trail running where it doesn't where time is kind of irrelevant.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's like can I find something a little bit different to focus on that isn't, you know, time as time-based and still find the joy in it and being able to compete?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is it look like is that it because uh again, trail running is a lot about fueling and nutrition and how can you kind of if you're doing a hundred mile, how do you stay um, how do you not totally, I don't know, like burn out or DNF or something?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can you be strong the entire time and make sure and keep a pretty even pace?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many pieces to it that you can kind of master.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of focus focusing on the time, you're focusing on the like you're saying, that execution of the race itself.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's cool about some of these types of races is that you can focus on something and getting better at something.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that may make you faster, but it also just may make you be able to complete that race better and feel better, or whatever it is about that race.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe that's the goal you focus on.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um because, you know, even try, I mean, even different triathlons and different, like even I'm thinking different marathons, like there's different elements in the race, hills or you know, heat, or I don't, it's you know, even time-based goals themselves are kind of just a little bit challenging because of all the different pieces and elements to it.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I would argue most of the time people should be focusing on execution anyways, right?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And rather than specifically a time goal.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I like what you said.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I just wanted to emphasize that because that's sort of where I'm leaning in towards is like how do I like maybe the 5K specifically is a hard one because I'm sure as I go older, I'll jump into 5Ks and I'm gonna have to find a way to be okay with that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I use the age-graded thing.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I know at some point I'll be like, okay, I'm just gonna be happy if I run a 20-minute fight.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you know, whatever it is, and I'm gonna have to be at to come to terms with that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm gonna be okay.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm also thinking, like, what else can I do?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: What other types of races can I do?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: How can I challenge myself a little bit differently moving forward and even have a different kind of challenge or a different kind of thing I'm focusing on so that I can still enjoy it and and find that um that competitive piece without being so tied in on, you know, so focused on what time I'm achieving.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Those are coming from that.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I had two if I had two athletes that I was working with and one and they both do the same race, and one is exceptionally faster than the other, but the execution of the race was poor.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: They just made really bad decisions, and a lot of times they just got really just dumb luck that you know that they got the performance that they wanted, versus another the other athlete who was slower but perfectly executed it.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: They paced it well, they executed their nutrition side, they were efficient in their transitions, they got in and out.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, which which athlete performed better?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it's the second athlete who had the better execution, but a relatively slower time than the one that just really got the better time, but was not strategic at all.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they just showed a tendency to make bad decisions and they just got lucky.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I'd I'd take that second athlete any day of the week.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I I I think I I don't know if it's just because you know I'm getting older and how I choose to to judge performance, but I know as a coach, when I sit down and I I go through an athlete's, you know, after race report, and you know, I'm I'm analyzing the data and you know trying to find pieces of of improvement.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to find pieces of, you know, hey, this is something that we need to work on, or this was done really, really well, even though the time that you got doesn't accurately measure your fitness or your the potential for your fitness.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: It does show that you were strategic in your thinking and and you executed it well.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: You may just have had conditions that didn't allow you to directly observe your your fitness potential in that moment, what whatever the reason may be.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So n that's the way that I'm thinking now as I'm going through, you know, my athlete's performance and I'm you know I'm coming up with their reports, you know, I th uh it's different than how I've thought about things in the past.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that the way that I've thought about things in the past is like, okay, how does how does this did was this race faster than another race?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And were you absolutely faster uh in this discipline and this piece?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm kind of taking a step back from from the speed thing.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that it's irrelevant, because by all means it's it's not.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think when when you've made the statement a couple times so far is that you know trail runs where where pace is irrelevant, I'm not quite sure that I that I agree with the statement that pace is irrelevant.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's not compare it's not comparable to road running.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean though those are two completely different executions.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So well pace is is not irrelevant, but it's the time, it's the pace, I mean the terrain is gonna kind of dictate a a little bit too.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're like if you're going straight up a mountain, your pace it may be like 14 minutes mile, you know what I mean?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a road race where you're kind of like, okay, my goal is uh six or whatever, seven minute mile, seven thirty pace for like this marathon in order to um get it, you know, at this certain time or something, because it's pretty flat.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit changing.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Your pace is changing with the terrain and the um elements a little bit.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: But so that's so that's just kind of what I meant there, I think.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean still like if it's the same I mean, but this a hundred mile on flat terrain is going to be different than a hundred mile or in the desert versus like uh here in Colorado where you're running at, you know, maybe 10,000 feet up in Leadville, like your time, you know, is gonna change your your outcome, your time that it takes is gonna change a little bit too.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um this the same thing for like any other kind of race.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's an element there of like the the the terrain, but um that's kind of what I meant there isn't so much it's like yeah, you you still need to execute it, you can't start at a seven-minute piece.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I I like I like the word that you just that you just brought up, and I I I don't know if you if you realized it, but you said the word outcome.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really like it because it that is a bit of a trigger for me in terms of what I wanted to talk about next, is that as we get older, should we start to shift away from being outcome focused versus and and become more process focused, you know, process oriented versus outcome-oriented?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: We still have to perform as athletes or we want to perform as athletes, but does there come a time where you think that not not that the outcome isn't important, but it's not like the primary driver of you know how we evaluate our performance?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Could it be that now let's see if I can use an example?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say that we have that we have an athlete who uh has a particular goal of of doing a marathon, let's say in you know, the three hours.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's their goal.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you how would you judge an athlete, or not necessarily judge, but evaluate an athlete who meets that goal but is super inconsistent in training, versus an athlete who may miss that goal by just a small margin, but was really good at the consistency of training.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Which athlete do you feel uh is the quote unquote better athlete?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously I think consistency matters and it's hard to say um you know, the potential of each athlete is a little bit different.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: So like perhaps the person that was really consistent meant like even though they missed that three hour, like they they were like pretty spot on with what their potential was based off of their abilities or something, but then the other person who was unconsistent was actually cap would have been actually capable of like a 250 or something.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: But they you know, you know what I mean?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's hard to judge athlete to athlete on that.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I would definitely say like I would say consistency over time, obviously.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's you know, definitely I mean, obviously, I think because I think I would be I would be questioning that person who wasn't very consistent in their training and they did reach that goal, but I'd be like, oh man, you could have potentially been s had been so maybe better, you know, because you we could have had a faster performance or a better performance had you actually been consistent in your training, right?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's always going to be that consistency that I would prioritize.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one thing.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's hard because I think there's a tendency sometimes for us, even as we're aging, to compare ourselves to to others.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe in that scenario that one athlete we you're saying like maybe didn't meet their goal, but they were very consistent, and maybe they're comparing themselves to this athlete.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's like I would be, I would almost be like, okay, well, yes, you didn't meet the mark now, but if you continue to be consistent and putting in the consistent work, perhaps the next time if you were to let like run against this other person who maybe still isn't consistent and still isn't training, you know, um, you'll you'll be able to, even though maybe their potential is greater, like you because you're putting in the work, you're probably gonna be, maybe, you know, can never have any guarantees, but you maybe actually be better at that.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was, I mean, I have to be honest, like I feel as though I ran in college, and I think a lot of people are like, oh, you must be a really good runner.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually what I have is that, you know, probably it's more the fact that I'm a hard worker and have always been able to be consistent at running.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably made me be the where I'm at in terms of some of my times and am I elite?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: But like I was running in college against women who did make it to the Olympics and had that sort of talent.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have the talent, but I have the I have the work ethic and the consistency, and that still carries over into my age, like where I'm at now.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's why I think a lot of people are like, oh, well, you're still like competitive.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes um people, you know, maybe have a tendency to want to compare themselves maybe to even what I'm doing.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to remember, like, I've pretty much, especially more recently, been pretty d consistent putting the work in days over days over, you know, months over years of this consistent training.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's probably more so what ha why I'm able to do the things I'm doing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't really think I have any sort of extreme innate talent exactly, but I think it's just that I'm have good work ethic and um not injured as often.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's something to that too.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think as an aging athlete, like we've said before, sometimes it is a little bit about, you know, I think a big part of it is consistency.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever training that you need to do to be able to put in the work and be consistent is gonna get you ahead or you're going to continue to be fairly successful, even if your time's slow a little bit, versus, you know, you kind of mentioning this, so versus an athlete who, especially a master's athlete or aging athlete who has injury over injury and they can never because once you're injured, as you get older, your setbacks, you get set back even more in your fitness.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the more you can be able to put in the work consistently.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means you have to do a different kind of training plan and uh allows a little more recovery, or you have to set things up a little bit differently so that you can maintain that consistency, that's probably what's going to be the most important thing, uh, especially for us aging athletes, if that makes sense.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like you're mentioning that, and I think that's an important thing to consider is the is that consistency over time.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's two there's two things that I want that I want to bring up uh based on what how what you said here.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: The first one is I think competitive the idea of competitiveness is based on relativity.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So how we choose to uh judge our competitiveness or define our competitiveness matters.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you're saying, oh, my idea of competitiveness is where I am in my standings, where I rank up against other people, versus somebody else who says, well, you know, I I determine my competitiveness based on how I perform against the clock and how I've performed based on past experts past performances.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Both are are perfectly reasonable ways to define competitiveness, but maybe as we get older we just have to change and evaluate how we define that word, being competitive.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing that I want to bring up is you you talked about where I came up with the example of these two athletes.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: One that was super competitive that missed the goal by a small margin versus another one, the other one who met their goal but the the execution of the training was poor, right?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: So two very different athletes were using their outcomes to determine their success.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it brings up an interesting thing is that we've been throwing this word potential around a lot during this episode.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the question becomes well how do we define potential?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not just the definition of potential but how do we measure potential?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly I don't know if it's even something that we can truly measure because to me potential is relative to your expectations so if I say you know I have a goal to do this race in X time and I'm make I could you say you know how did you come up with that time?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the questions that I always ask as a coach.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like okay well how did you come up with that?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well I I took a look at all my past performances or I looked at the the previous races and if I want to grab a podium, you know this is the time that I'm going to have to come in in order to be within the top three of of my age group well does that define your potential it could be that you know who's to say that you couldn't perform better if you trained a different way or if you trained this particular way and the the the environment in which you were training was was adverse does that mean that you race to your potential that's like that's your fitness potential or is it the potential that you had that day under those conditions.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is becoming an interesting idea on how we measure this perceived potential and whether it's absolute or it's relative what do you what do you think about what do you think about that?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I don't think you can it's hard because I don't know if there's a way to measure like your absolute potential like you know putting all these variables in and like okay like if you had your very very best day and everything went right like you're capable of a two something marathon or something.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know what I mean?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know if there's a way to measure that and I think there's a point there too of so this is an interesting concept and it could apply maybe to a master's athlete's too is like where the mental side of what we're telling ourselves is our potential or what we think it we're capable of and then are are we limiting ourselves.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a common phenomenon in like elite and I know again like elite sports are different but like let's just say this like let's just give this example.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: So right now, you know I was watching the Chicago marathon this morning and the woman the top American woman was like 220 I don't think an American I don't know the best American time I cannot remember but um the top Kenyan runner was like a 213.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I guarantee you I I think there's like a mental thing.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I guarantee you when an American American woman runs 215 or something like faster than that and we have somebody just break through and they run that time like all of these other women who are in the 220s I guarantee you there's going to be a whole bunch of women who are now like wait if she's capable of that like my potential is faster, right?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of times we are measuring ourselves based off of other of what's the limit of what other people are doing.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah that that is an interesting thought in that do you define your potential relative to how others are performing and are others setting or setting a benchmark that you feel like that you could live up to yeah or even on yourself.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me it's like I have this I mean this is just an interesting thought because I don't have anything to prove I could be faster but it's like I'm like I kind of have this like okay I need to get faster than my PR I think my potential is 258 or something like that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's just a touch faster than whatever.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe if I had the right training and everything came together, it's faster than that.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: But in my mind I'm like well I can't set out to say I could run a 250.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: That would be like unrealistic because I but you're we're setting like boundaries a little bit sometimes on our and that's okay because we don't want to be shooting it out of the you know I'm gonna go for this you know really ambitious time but maybe if I really believed I could do it maybe I wouldn't be able to get a 250 but maybe it would be a 255 and I shot you know so sometimes I think there is a it's like a mental piece a little bit too of like and I wonder too with aging like it's there's a physical piece, right?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of like we're physically just cannot train like we used to and that's going to slow us down.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I do wonder sometimes, you know, is there also like something mental happening with for people of like well I'm getting older like I'm just gonna slow down and is that like is that affecting the ment the mental side of of setting your own limits where you think oh I'm just I'm just telling myself now oh I'm getting older so I'm actually kind of giving up on ones could be the potential so yeah I'm gonna slow down so limiting myself you're kind of limiting yourself mentally I mean I don't you can't just mentally be like I'm gonna run like super fast forever like there is a slowdown but I also wonder because I don't know I'm thinking for myself is it is it because am I still running pretty fast and feeling like I am able to train even pretty um pretty aggressively in some aspects is it because I just am stubborn you know I'm like I'm not I'm I'm not yet ready like I'm hanging on and I'm and mentally I'm like I believe I can still do this and therefore I am or is it because I do have this this like I don't know genetic potential to rec still recover faster like the aging hasn't affected me as affected me as much like I don't know because how are we gonna figure that out but I do I like strongly believe still that I have the ability to run a pretty fast 5k that I have I still think I have it in me to run a PR in the marathon.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: I believe this strongly still I haven't quite yet given up and so maybe there is a a mental side and I think that's a tough one because I'm not telling people again that they should like just believe yourself like just put you know don't like put those restrictions on yourself.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time like why not just be like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna be smart about it.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give myself a little extra time to train and maybe do a you know an extra recovery but I'm gonna go for it and still see what I'm what is my potential or what is if I put a lot of effort in and I don't give up like what am I still capable of?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it it is you don't realize a PR but maybe you're surprised by what you can achieve.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really like personally I'm still thinking about the 5K like I mentioned and I'm like okay I'm gonna really give it a go in the spring and I'm gonna travel to sea level because I have more potential I'm gonna wear I'm gonna do all the things I'm supposed to do.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wear the super shoes.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna travel somewhere flat to sea level and I'm gonna try to do this like ambitious goal of under 18 minutes for the 5K that's an ambitious goal.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know I may not be able to achieve that like I have no idea but I'm gonna go for it right I really am thinking about it.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's spinning in my head and I'm not putting those res I'm not saying well I'm 40 something and I probably shit will never achieve that so I'm just gonna give up and be happy with an 1830 or whatever, you know?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's that's just me.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where I'm at and what I'm how I am approaching it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's something to be said for that, right?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think it's it's it's yeah it's absolutely reasonable to where I can see the correlation between mental strength and your observable potential on race day to where if if if I have an athlete who says you know I've just I've I've come to the re I've I've come to the conclusion not based on fact or anything observable but I just feel that you know I'm getting older so you know I need to I'm just gonna slow things down and I'm I'm I'm going to be I'm gonna accept slower times versus somebody else who is a little mentally stronger and says you know am I getting older?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Am I willing to accept that I'm slowing down I don't know because I need more observe I need more observations in order to come to that.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they train a different way versus somebody who has come to that real they've come to that conclusion on their own and they're just like I'm I'm going to slow down so I'm going to train in such a way that meets what I feel like my potential is so they structure their training that way versus somebody else who thinks differently they structure their training differently even though they have similar physiology maybe the results are different because of the way that they mentally approach their training and the execution of their training really had a significant impact on the outcome.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you also brought up the word genetics which I I think that we're on the same wavelength even though we haven't talked about this because this is the next piece that I wanted to bring in is that is there a genetic component to the rate in which we age and the performance the the the assumed degradation in performance that comes with the aging process?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a genetic component to where we have athletes that are of the same age, the same physiology but one has better genetics than the other so that person's performance may not degrade as quickly as the other person's so I I think that that's that's interesting because it comes to a point where competitiveness is still being judged against other other people's performance even though you're in the same age group there may be a genetic component that really kind of gives them an advantage over you.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: So judging your efficacy or your potential as as a result of that may not be uh apples to apples.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah I think I think that's hard also is like I mean there's no way that we could know that so but I I think it's I think it's a reasonable argument.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think so.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think yeah it's just hard because again you know with genetics it's like I don't know we don't even know like we're still trying to figure out the important genetics of like different diseases and things like that what causes diabetes and all the genes.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we're probably not going to know anytime real soon what makes somebody age faster or slow down faster, you know, in terms of their genetics but I think that is um probably a compo component but I do wonder how much is it genetics or versus like I do wonder like the mental side of it.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that I I personally I think I've just kind of I I'm stubborn so I think for me it's just I'm personally not ready to get I'm not ready to um but I know that I just I know that there's going to be a a point at which um I'm gonna fight, fight, fight I know that there's going to be a point where I'm like, okay yeah it does seem like I'm not um go, you know, maybe I'll be able to get achieved this goal of under 18 minute 5K but I know there's going to be a point I won't be able to do that anymore.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going for it now.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I won't be able to achieve it, but I'm going to go for it anyway.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's something to be said for that, you know, and and maybe at some point it it's not an 18 minute maybe it's a 19 minute you know and I'm like okay I'm gonna go for I'm gonna try to beat a 19 minute 5K and I think that that little marker is going to change a little bit but I'm still gonna go for it.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know maybe I won't be doing 5Ks as often anymore but um I think there's a m but I I I think that's okay.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the marker may change but I do want to I want I think the mental of like how we're thinking about it and our goals and not giving up or not like preemptively saying okay I'm older therefore I'm gonna be slower and just kind of like making that your limitation.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just letting the result like still putting in the work putting the consistency like we're talking about and then it's like okay yes I'm slowing so how am I going to um change my perspective a little bit my goals and not letting it and really I think trying not to be like okay this is the best I've ever I ever was was in my twenties I'm never going to be there so I give up.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how do you still find um that fire to to kind of keep keep going and what is that look I mean I think it's okay to be disappointed and to be I'm not I don't know if sad.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean maybe somebody might be sad about that, but I think it's okay to sort of have a little bit of um that sort of like I was saying like thinking back like, oh what if I could go back and do the things differently and I I have had those thoughts and it's I think it's okay to have those those feelings but I think it's important to kind of try to move on and figure out how are you gonna adapt and how are you how are those goals going to change over time too and do you try something new?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you focus more on execution?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you um like how how yeah that's kind of what I'm trying to to kind of encourage people to do.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And is it and and how do you kind of stay the mental side of it of like um the limitations you put on yourself too like how can you sort of shoot for I think it's a little better to shoot for something a little faster and then be and put all your work into it and see if you could get there than to be like well now I'm gonna limit myself to only this time because I think I'm slower or something.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a balance I think for sure.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I'm at with it.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you have any other thoughts but go ahead.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah there was a I was sitting down with with Chet GPT and I was I was I was just I like to play on it so every once in a while.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I pinged it and said you know hey this is you know about this race that that I've already signed up for and you know what kind of performance would I need in this race in order to get a qualifying slot for uh Iron Man's 70.3 world championships which is going to be in Chattanooga Tennessee in 2027.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it ran through like all of my data and everything else and it it went through the calculations and it said okay you know your your swim is almost there.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: So right now you've almost have a a 70 point three championship quality swim.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: It said I already have a 70 point three quality bike and it's like this is the run is where you you lack.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was giving me it was giving me all of the splits that I would need like my time that I would need in order to qualify.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something like I was going to have to run like an eight minute mile.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was something totally absurd.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know and I was I was like and so it wanted to like plot out like a training plan to to get me there.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said and I I just responded to it and I was like I have never in my entire life ran that fast for that long and I'm going to be 50 years old.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think the chances of me running the fastest I've ever ran at that age and it said you know what you're right you probably don't have a shot I was like I was like huh okay that's what that's kind of what I thought but but it what it did and I thought this was really cool is that it returned other scenarios.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just like well you know if we don't see that a qualifying slot is is possible here's other approaches that we can use to the training to still make you competitive but you may not have an outright shot at at the at a championship slot.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what it really drove home to me is that as we get older there may be opportunities we no longer have access to unless there's like a a serious like intervention from God that that's the only way that you're going to get there.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: But there are other things that we can do to still improve but you this goal might be out of reach.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought that that was really illustrative of of this topic that we were talking about today in terms of the aging athlete and how to how to mentally accept the aging process and what that means about reevaluating performance and you know does it mean now that I'm now a less fit athlete or that I I'm not competitive in the field because I I I can't perform at a level that gives me a qualifying slot?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, because I think that there's other ways to define it in terms of okay well then how can I execute you know is there is there room for improvement in my run?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: Will I ever get to an eight minute mile?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I I highly doubt it, but could I go from what's now like you know my you know a 13 minute mile which is what I would probably have ran in like my previous, you know, my most recent 70.3s can I get to a point where I could run a 12 minute or an 11 minute like sustainable half marathon after a 56 mile bike and you know a one and a quarter mile swim.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's a possibility.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's not out of the realm realm of of impossibilities.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that that was really illustrative and and helped me kind of see yeah I'm getting older but it doesn't necessarily mean that I have to stop competing.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just maybe have to change the way my perception of what competition is.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely yeah I love that I went I like the way you kind of stated that and I think yeah I like how we sort of brought in our own perspectives instead of sort of seeing like or or what we're going through and what we're thinking about this instead of being like this is how you this is how we the strategies you go through to like cope with this because like I said neither of us are like psychological psychologists but we are living it a little bit in our own ways and we are we work with others who are kind of other athletes who are maybe going through some of this and so we have I think our perspective and this discussion has been interesting.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just it went a little bit differently than I thought which is fine.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean not like in a bad way um but I think yeah I think that's a good way I I like that how you kind of ended it there.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right solid let's wrap this thing up.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: So uh thank you guys for joining this has been episode uh what 129 of of the endurance athlete journey podcast where we've talked about the mental side of the aging process and aging as an endurance athlete how to maybe change your perspective on evaluating performance and what it means to be competitive as we get older.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank you guys for the support that you continue to show the podcast.
• 1:04:20
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• 1:04:40
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• 1:04:55
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• 1:05:02
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• 1:05:05
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• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're both we're both in uh coaches and we're taking on uh athletes onto our rosters we're coming down to the the nitty gritty of of the 2026 and we're closing out a year so if you have plans for 2027 and you need help uh establishing those plans or the process to get where it is that you want to go uh I hope that you will consider us as as your coaches.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you want to uh reach out to Katie you can go to fuel the number two run dot com and reach out to her there.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to reach out to me you can go to tabularassa racing.com.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Both of us have plenty of content on our respective websites and coaching philosophies.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we hope that you will reach out if if you're looking for help.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for that.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: As always we thank you love you guys for for the support that you continue to show.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time I've been your host coach Justin along with Coach Katie.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you all again next time.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye everyone bye that wraps up today's episode of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Endurance sports have a way of teaching us patience humility and resilience lessons that carry far beyond the workout progress in endurance sports doesn't come from shortcuts.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from consistency, discipline and doing the work when it's not glamorous.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever you are on your endurance journey keep trusting the process and honoring the work you put in each day.
• 1:06:44
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• 1:06:52
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• 1:07:00
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• 1:07:04
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• 1:07:15
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• 1:07:24
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• 1:07:34
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