Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / Trump’s Impact on The Supply Chain with Jim Tompkins - Vol. 1

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Trump’s Impact on The Supply Chain with Jim Tompkins - Vol. 1 · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Dave Goolis here with Beyond Fulfillment podcast.
• 0:09
  This is a special edition, Trump's impact on the Supply Chain with a very special guest.
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  The the founder of TopPkins Ventures and 50 Year Veteran Supply chain expert extraordinaire, Jim Tompkins.
• 0:23
  Welcome, Jim.
• 0:24
  Well, thank you, Dave.
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  But everyone looks at me and say 50 year veteran, that can't be true.
• 0:28
  The guy looks like he's 23 years old.
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  But anyway, yeah, good to be here.
• 0:33
  Yes, yes.
• 0:35
  So you were a guest on the show very recently while President Trump was President Elect Trump and we talked a lot in that episode about what was coming and you made the, made the emphasis on re globalization that
• 0:50
  was coming and encouraging people to have optionality within their supply chains.
• 0:55
  So as we record this, we're about three, just over three weeks, weeks in to the Trump presidency.
• 1:02
  And I don't know that anyone could have predicted this.
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  The way he's moving at warp speed, basically the amount of things that are happening, the changes that are happening, the, the radical impact it's having on all sorts of players with not only the supply chain, but many other
• 1:20
  industries.
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  I mean, what, what's your take on what we've seen so far?
• 1:24
  Well, it's absolutely mind blowing.
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  The president obviously spent the last four years preparing for these first three weeks because there's nobody that could generate this level of breadth and depth of materials with such a strategic approach to what he's doing.
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  So I'm not politically endorsing Trump or not endorsing Trump.
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  I'm just saying, wow.
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  It has been a absolute fabulous illustration of leadership and of preparation and jumping on board and maintaining his campaign promises.
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  He is doing what he said he was going to do and so it's just amazing.
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  You mentioned the breadth of the impact.
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  I can't get on a call with anybody in the world.
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  And the topic of Trump tariffs, Trump impact, what's this gonna mean?
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  Where's it gonna take us?
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  What are the impacts on the economy?
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  What are the impacts on this, this, this.
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  Everyone is talking about this and it's just absolutely amazing his attending the super bowl so smart yesterday.
• 2:53
  I've had my, I don't watch much news, but I'm now watching the 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00 news shows.
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  So my wife tapes those for me and so I can watch them.
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  When it's a subject that I don't care about, I could fast forward and get through it and I can watch those four hours of news in about hour and 45 minutes at my pace.
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  But when I turned it on last night, it was about quarter to 10.
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  And somehow I hit the live show or the show that was supposed to be showing last or something, and I got a picture of Trump and then I got a picture of Elon with Elon's sons on his shoulder
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  and Elon in the Oval Office of the White House with a hat and a T shirt underneath a sport coat.
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  And I thought that's not how you're supposed to look in the white, how you're supposed to be dignified and so forth.
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  And so then I had a negative thought on that.
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  And then I turned back to the show and the show was running.
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  And about five minutes into Musk giving the explanation of what Dove is doing, I thought, oh, my goodness, this is pure genius of Trump to have Elon make this presentation.
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  Because there's the next next news item is some people that don't like Musk and what he's doing, and they're talking all sorts of bad things about him.
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  But he spent 2 million for this and 4 million for this and 6 million for this and 59 million for this and 120 million for this.
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  And I'm going, oh, my goodness, this is, this is three weeks in.
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  This is absolutely amazing.
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  So it has been a lot of fun, it has been a lot of learning, and I think it's been probably the first three weeks have been the greatest 100 days of any president in the history of the United
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  States.
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  Yeah, yeah, you can't.
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  And again, you've much more life experience than I, that I have.
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  But yeah, I can't ever remember this much getting done this quickly.
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  It's, it's incredible.
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  Incredible.
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  So let's go through some of these, these key issues here for supply chain.
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  So let's start with the tariffs.
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  So we saw the whole thing play out over the course of last week where he announced the tariffs were coming.
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  I think it was February 2nd, Mexico and Canada 25%, then China 10%.
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  And then he paused.
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  You know, there was a lot of build up to it.
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  And then Mexico and Canada each cut a deal and brought a lot more border security to their borders.
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  And then he paused the tariffs for 30 days.
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  So clearly.
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  Right.
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  We all know Trump's history of using tariffs as a negotiation tactic and how successful that has been and the way he likes to leave all options on the table and have that keep the other side guessing, I guess
• 5:56
  you could say, in terms of what he may do.
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  But now we're in this pause period.
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  Right.
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  And as it states right now the tariffs are going to kick in, but they are negotiating.
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  So no telling what's going to happen.
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  But we, we've seen and even people I know, and I'm sure you know, suppliers that have, that are from those countries sitting on the sidelines and holding up before they make any further moves because they've, they've said, I
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  don't want to do anything until I know exactly what's going to happen.
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  Right.
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  So, I mean, what's, what's your take on how that's going to play out with the Canada, Mexico thing and what's that going to meet for those supply chains that are integrated across North America?
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  Well, a great question, Dave, or I think there's six questions there.
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  But I love it because that's, that's not you doing it.
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  That's what Trump is doing.
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  He's, he's creating one question that turns into sex on us.
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  So great, great intro.
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  Different circumstances.
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  Mexico and Canada are not necessarily supply chain topics.
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  They're more immigration and fentanyl related.
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  That's what he is targeting with these tools.
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  And we all know that closing the border and safety for Americans are very, very high priority.
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  And he ran on that premise.
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  And so he is showing real strength.
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  I thought what we were going to see is 5 to 10% on Canada and on Mexico.
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  I thought we would see it about when we did because he told us it was going to be then.
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  And so that didn't surprise me, but I thought it was going to be a lower number.
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  What we're seeing is that Trump was very confident in what he was doing with tariffs and therefore he wanted to show his strength and his aggressiveness as a opening round.
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  And so he went to the 25.
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  And that just kind of blew everyone off the map.
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  And immediately Canada and Mexico said, we can't have this.
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  This would kill our economy.
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  So let's get this thing kind of closed out.
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  And they responded with troops and helicopters and so forth.
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  And so the tariffs went away for 30 days.
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  I think they basically have agreed that the tariffs, those tariffs are going to go away.
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  But Trump said let's make sure we dot the I and cross the T here.
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  So let's put in a 30 day review period.
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  So that's what I think happened there.
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  China was the exact opposite.
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  I was expecting China at one point he said 25 to 60% comma or maybe higher.
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  That's what President Trump said.
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  And so I was thinking he's not going to go higher than 60%.
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  But he very well could come in with some really aggressive number, like 40%.
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  But he knows that China is in a much more powerful position today than they were when it was the 45th president of the United States.
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  And they've done a lot of work with building relationships.
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  And so what's important is for him to show strength, but also to show constraint.
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  And so he then comes out with the 10%, which was relatively easy to swallow.
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  It's a very fair number.
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  And what happened then is the Chinese have now responded with the retaliatory tariffs, and the retaliatory tariffs are also quite muted.
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  And so what we're seeing is, contrary to showing strength with Mexico and Canada, where he knew he was going to win with China, what he did is he really, really thinking through this.
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  Well, and mine is easy to do because I'm looking at it after the fact.
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  He had to think about before the fact.
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  But what he has done is de.
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  Escalated the, quote, trade war.
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  We're not going to have a trade war.
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  We're going to have a negotiated peace.
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  And so there's going to be some tit for tat, there's going to be some negotiating, but the outcome is going to be they are going to sit down, they are going to negotiate, and they're going to find a
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  win, win.
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  And so Trump has put his issues on the table, The Chinese have put their issues on the table.
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  They've got these kind of opening positions for the negotiation.
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  And so they've kind of set the stage for what's next without creating a big hubbub and everyone start jumping out of buildings.
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  So that's an important question you asked.
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  The third important question you asked was the one that has to do is, what about the people sitting on the sideline?
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  What do they do now?
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  Do you take action or do you sit idle?
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  Well, the ultimate answer to that is the only thing that's going to be certain for the next four years is uncertainty.
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  We are going to have more uncertainty, lack of clarity than we've ever had in the history of the country, the history of the world.
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  And so what's going to happen is we're not going to know, because these issues are very, very complex, very interrelated.
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  Some of them are trade policies, some of our economic policies, some of them are immigration, some of them are intellectual property, some of them are technology.
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  I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on at once.
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  And so you got to be very careful, you know, when you push the wrong button, erased the article you just spent two hours writing and so we need to really help people understand two things.
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  Number one, uncertainty is certain and number two, no one is going to know what to do.
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  But doing nothing is not an option.
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  You cannot do nothing.
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  Now, you don't want to make a bad move, but what you need to do is you need to prepare.
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  If this happens, I'm going to do this.
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  If this happens, I'm going to do this.
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  If this happens, I'm going to do this.
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  And if this happens, I'm going to do that.
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  And so what that is, is as you mentioned, that's optionality.
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  And so I need to define what am I going to do next.
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  If this happens, this happens, this happens.
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  And that's a lot of work.
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  In fact, that's more work than if we had certainty and we just needed to design one solution, but we need to design multiple solutions.
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  And so that means we absolutely got to get busy.
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  Sitting on your hands is not acceptable because then you're absolutely certain not to be ready for anything.
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  And to the contrary, we have to be certain that, that we're ready for everything.
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  And so it's a very interesting time because companies should be working very hard at how are we going to handle the different options that are going to be placed in front of us.
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  And it's critical that companies do that.
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  If you do nothing, you will lose.
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  Yeah, 100%.
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  Right.
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  Because like you said, like when you're waiting on the sidelines and then you don't know how this stuff, what if there's another 30 day pause and there's more negotiations and then there's more back and forth and.
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  Right.
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  So no telling what's around the corner.
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  But so for, for those companies out there, right, like let's say they have a supply chain and they're, they're accustomed to doing things a certain way for many number of years and now everything gets flipped upside down these
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  last few weeks and they understand, right.
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  Certainty or uncertainty is certain and they need to be prepared.
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  But again, right.
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  They were caught off guard.
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  They don't know what to do.
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  What, what are, what are some things that a company could do if they have a vested interest?
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  May maybe they're heavily dedicated to one country that's in one of these crosshairs.
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  What is your suggestion on some steps that a company could take?
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  Well, the very first thing we need to do, and hopefully we started this before now, but a lot of companies haven't is we really need to diversify our sourcing.
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  If someone said, oh yeah, we used to make 100% of our products, of our products for this category came from China, from this one company.
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  And what we have done is we have diversified our sourcing.
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  Now we have two companies in China that do that product.
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  You diversified from one company to having two.
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  That's a good move.
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  However, they're both in China and they're both going to fall in the good news or the bad news, depending on what happened.
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  So what you need to do is really diversify.
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  So I think one option I would consider if I bought all my particular product of this category from China, I would look at buying it from two different companies in China.
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  I also would look at buying half from China and half from India.
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  I might even look at buying a half from India, a fourth from Vietnam and a fourth from China.
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  I'm going to look at some real options to figure out how am I going to allow myself to have the flow of parts coming in and diversifying.
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  Sourcing is not only who you source with.
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  It's also going to be which shipping line, it's also going to be which ports.
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  It's also going to be which distribution centers are they going to.
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  Which ports are they going to.
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  I need to diversify my supply chain and so that I have options in front of me to use different countries for the sourcing with different transportation providers, going to different ports overseas and then using different distribution centers.
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  And I need to really look at how to diversify that.
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  Then the next thing I need to do is I need to have the technology in place that allows me to rapidly throw this switch and throw this switch and throw this switch.
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  Okay, so there's going to be a rule out there.
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  If the tariffs hit more than 12%, I'm going to do this.
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  If they hit more than 22%, I'm going to do this.
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  And I need to have that math in place.
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  I need to understand what's going on.
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  I need to have contacted that transportation company.
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  I need to talk to them about availability.
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  Because when this stuff happens, I mean, my goodness sakes, your introduction said it.
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  They.
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  This is.
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  The pace is unbelievable.
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  I mean, this all has happened now in what, 24 days?
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  And so, oh, my goodness, what's going to happen next?
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  We can't sit back and say, well, I think I'm going to look at diversifying my sources.
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  No, no, no, we got to be way ahead of that.
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  And we got, we got to make that happen.
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  So that's a topic.
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  I need to have the technology to be able to do that.
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  I need to have the contracts in place.
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  I need to have those alternative sources to have the drawings, to have the specification.
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  I need to have them run some test parts.
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  I need to do quality control on those parts.
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  I got to make sure that those parts pass my.
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  My inspection.
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  And so we really need to get this on, and we need to actually begin to play with it.
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  Maybe from a starting point, we leave, you know, 40% of the production here and 30% here.
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  But then I got another two 15s here and 15 here just to get them ready.
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  And say, people say, boy, that's going to cost you money.
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  Yes, it is, but so are the tariffs if we don't respond in the right way.
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  And so we need to understand what are the alternatives that we have and how quickly can we execute those and have the technology in place so that we can push the button and make it happen.
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  And that's an excellent point.
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  Another challenge with that is if a company is not accustomed to pivoting in such a manner.
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  Right.
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  And like you mentioned, diversifying your sourcing, finding procurement within new.
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  New markets, new countries, new shipping lines, new.
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  Right.
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  There's a vetting process, particularly with the larger.
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  The company is typically, it's often.
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  It's more complex.
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  Right.
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  Takes time.
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  And you're talking many months to get this done traditionally.
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  And you know, there's not that kind of time to spend.
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  So for someone that's in a precarious situation and needs to move quickly and knows, you know, that they want to do what you're speaking to, but they're thinking, like, where do I even start?
• 19:31
  I mean, what would you recommend as far as finding expertise or finding some help to help or to start that process and yesterday, which basically is what needs to happen for many companies.
• 19:44
  Well, you need people who have thought through this in real depth and who have put in place a process that has been tried and proven and it does not become an additional uncertainty.
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  So don't, you know, type online, you know, companies that help sourcing and yes, find someone out of the blue, you need to find someone that's really experienced at that.
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  Now, I began working on this problem four years ago.
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  Four years ago, I was looking for east coast distribution centers.
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  Okay.
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  And you say, how does that relate?
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  Hang on, it'll be.
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  So I'm looking for east coast distribution centers, and I'm looking for real estate that's available, where they have labor that's available.
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  I don't want to build a building and not be able to get the labor.
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  I don't want to find a great labor market and not be able to afford the building, because guess what?
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  Every place there's a port, there's water.
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  And what happens when water meets land?
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  Land prices are high because everyone wants to live at the water.
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  And so the land prices are high.
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  And so you got to pay a fortune.
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  And what the conclusion I reached was there was no really good east coast land available where I could afford the land and hire the labor.
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  It didn't exist.
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  And so we said, well, what do we do?
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  Well, logical choice.
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  Let's think about Puerto Rico.
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  Well, Puerto Rico has a lot of interesting characteristics.
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  It's part of the U.S.
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  it's close to the U.S.
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  all that's really.
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  However, the land is tough, it's expensive, and the labor is low.
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  So we said, well, okay, that doesn't work.
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  How about the Dominican Republic?
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  And we looked at the Dominican Republic and they said, oh, land is extremely reasonably priced.
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  Oh, labor is very well educated, fluent in English, and has a really good work ethic.
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  The leadership.
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  I actually met with the president of the Dominican Republic yesterday, by the way.
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  Rubio was with the president and was with one of my friends that I'm working on this project on.
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  And they were in the palace in the.
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  In Dominican Republic.
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  And so we had the land, we had the labor, we had the leadership.
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  And I'm thinking, oh, this is, this is really looking good.
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  How's the logistics?
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  They've got great logistics companies.
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  They've got DP World, which is a very strong shipping company.
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  They've got Alex Shod, a logistics firm that does air, ocean, land, the whole thing.
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  Really great company, really does a great job.
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  And I said, boy, oh, boy, they have everything.
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  Except what they don't have is they don't have a digital supply visibility tool for the country.
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  And so what we're doing is we're working on what we're now calling the Western Hemisphere center of Supply Chain Excellence.
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  And that'll give them the five Ls, the land, the labor, the leadership, the location, and the logistics, and the lighthouse.
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  And so those five Ls make it a perfect location.
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  So we're looking at Dominican Republic.
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  We're looking at Panama.
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  Panama is to the west coast, what Dominican Republic is to the east coast.
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  We started looking at how would we make the decision which ports to use, in which timing.
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  We weren't looking at tariffs, but what we were looking is at the overall cost.
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  And we developed an AI modeling tool that allowed us to understand when we should throw the switches.
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  And then starting two years ago, I called this process reglobalization.
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  And Re globalization is a combination of near shoring, friend shoring and reshoring that allows us to deal with uncertainties of the future and still get the product delivered when it's needed at a cost that's very reasonable, that will
• 24:29
  not result in inflation.
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  And in fact, maybe a big tariff on China results in the product not being made from China.
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  It gets produced someplace, maybe in South America, gets shipped up to Panama and gets shipped up to the doctor.
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  And what we're going to find out is our overall costs are going to go down.
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  So when the economists go on TV over and over and over and say tariffs are inflationary, well, if you're looking at them in a closed environment, sure, tariffs are inflationary, you're adding money to the cost.
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  But if you look at the total ecosystem, we might be able to switch our supply chain.
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  The economist that says tariffs are resulting in inflation, what they're assuming is you don't do anything with the supply chain.
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  Well, you only don't do something with the supply chain.
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  If you're stupid, if you have a brain on your head, you're going to say, hey, they have put these additional costs in.
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  I need to respond to this.
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  And I'm going to look at my options.
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  And some of those options I might go, the cost might go up here, but this might go down.
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  This is going to go up.
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  This is going to go down.
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  The country is going to get that tariff money.
• 25:47
  Maybe my taxes are going to be reduced, maybe the regulations are going to be reduced.
• 25:51
  Maybe Dove is going to take money out of the budget and the taxes are going to further go down.
• 25:55
  And so yes, maybe this one piece gets inflated, but the total could very definitely be deflation, could, could result in costing less.
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  And the now the people can go to the grocery store and pay less for the groceries, not more.
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  And so it's, it's really a, a big, big, big game.
• 26:15
  And it's, it's the most important game we're playing because global trade depends upon how we handle this.
• 26:23
  Yeah.
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  And like you said, it's a dynamic environment.
• 26:26
  It's not just static where if there's a tariff that, oh, everyone's price just goes up and people accept it, that it's a dynamic game.
• 26:34
  Everyone's trying to, to make the moves where they're in an advantage and they can mitigate any potential risks or additional costs that come up.
• 26:43
  And like you said, people are making moves.
• 26:46
  And the scenario you just described too is if the pair, if the tariffs did stay, that would be an excellent alternative.
• 26:53
  Where people can adjust and then reroute goods or have goods made elsewhere.
• 26:57
  And again, like you said, things may go up, could go down over here.
• 27:02
  And it's a dynamic environment.
• 27:04
  And ultimately they want to make the moves that give them the best chance to win.
• 27:08
  You know, Dave, that's so, that's so cool that you should use the word dynamic before I did because I came up with an acronym called D SCO and DSCO is the, the real everything I've said today could kind
• 27:28
  of be the definition of D SEO.
• 27:31
  What DSEO is, is it's Dynamic Supply Chain Optionality.
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  Now let me explain how I got there.
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  As I got thinking about this re globalization thing, this is going to happen.
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  And so I'm going to re globalize.
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  And now I'm going to be good and then this is going to happen.
• 27:52
  And so then I going to re globalize again.
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  And so that would be called re reglobalization.
• 27:58
  But then this happens.
• 27:59
  And then I got re, re re globalization.
• 28:01
  And then this happens.
• 28:02
  I got re, re, re re globalization.
• 28:04
  And I got tired of saying re, re, re, re, re, re, re, re re globalization.
• 28:09
  And so I said I got to think of a different term.
• 28:12
  And so what is an easier way to say re, re, re re re re re globalization.
• 28:19
  Easier way to do it is call it dsco.
• 28:22
  It's Dynamic Supply Chain Optionality that says you're going to dynamically re, re, re re re re.
• 28:32
  Look at the optionality and come up with the supply chain that's going to allow us to maximize customer service at a minimal cost.
• 28:41
  Okay.
• 28:42
  And clearly you have a lot of expertise on this.
• 28:44
  If people don't know who Tompkins Ventures is, you're a expert consultant and you have a huge team of some of the biggest companies in the world, some of the biggest logistics providers in the world, all sorts of solutions
• 29:00
  globally.
• 29:00
  So you have the, the pieces in place to execute these projects for people that need to adjust a major supply chain in a hurry.
• 29:09
  So if people want to get in touch with you, learn more about this and how they can potentially make the moves that are going to help them win.
• 29:15
  Regardless of what happens and have that dynamic optionality within their supply chain, what's the best way people can get in touch with you?
• 29:23
  Well, thank you for asking that.
• 29:26
  I appreciate it.
• 29:29
  A way a lot of people try to get a hold of me is from the company I started in 1975 and I worked in that company from 1975 to 2020.
• 29:40
  Watch that company grow and prosperity in 2020 when Covid hit, it became clear to me that my options were limited.
• 29:50
  No matter how good Tompkins International was, I don't care if it's McKinsey, it's KPMG, if it's Accenture, no matter how good one firm is, it's still going to be a limiting factor because no one can cover everything.
• 30:08
  No company.
• 30:10
  And so what we did is we created at Tompkins Ventures an ecosystem.
• 30:16
  And that ecosystem has a large number of large companies, as you mentioned, as consortium members.
• 30:24
  And what we have is we've developed the capability to assemble a solution from all these related technologies.
• 30:34
  BPLs, transportation companies, sourcing companies, leadership companies.
• 30:40
  We can put a team together that's going to allow us to solve that client's problem.
• 30:47
  And we can do six months works in six weeks.
• 30:51
  And so it's really, really, really cool.
• 30:53
  So don't contact me at Tompkins International.
• 30:56
  I haven't worked there since March of 2020.
• 30:59
  I now work at Tompkins Ventures.
• 31:02
  And so Tompkins Ventures.
• 31:05
  My email is the letter J like Jim Tompkins.
• 31:09
  And since I now live in the South, I have to say no H.
• 31:13
  Everyone wants in the south wants to put an H and it's J T O M P K I N S.
• 31:20
  At Tompkins Ventures.
• 31:23
  T O M P K dash I N S V E N T U R E S dot com.
• 31:29
  You also can find our website, which has the same handle.
• 31:33
  You also can get the 29 page paper called Re Globalization, no Charge.
• 31:42
  You can get that for free.
• 31:43
  You can get it from our website, you can get it from my LinkedIn profile.
• 31:48
  LinkedIn profile.
• 31:49
  Just plain Jim Tompkins and we would love to chat with people.
• 31:54
  We've got a group of advisors who become your leader.
• 31:59
  We have advisors from Europe, we have advisors from Asia, we have advisors from Africa, we have advisors from Latin America, we've got advisors from Mexico, United States and Canada.
• 32:09
  And so we have the ability to work with you literally around the world.
• 32:15
  There's some exceptions.
• 32:16
  We don't do Antarctica, we don't do Russia, we don't do Afghanistan, we don't do Iraq.
• 32:21
  Other than that, we can pretty well work with you.
• 32:24
  And it's really amazing to watch what's happening.
• 32:28
  Just I had a conversation just before this discussion with a gentleman from Turkey.
• 32:35
  And Turkey two years ago was to Europe what Mexico is to the United States.
• 32:44
  And so a lot of production left Europe and went to Turkey.
• 32:51
  And that worked great.
• 32:52
  That was called re globalization.
• 32:55
  But then what happened is Turkey got so much work and had such limited capacity.
• 33:00
  Some of that work slid south to Hungary.
• 33:04
  And so the higher value work stayed in Turkey.
• 33:07
  The lower value work went to Hungary.
• 33:10
  And then what started happening about six months ago, some of the work in Hungary slid south further and went to Egypt.
• 33:18
  And then it's now that's where it is, but it's going to go further and it's going to go to Africa.
• 33:24
  So that's re, re, re, re, re globalization or we now know dsco.
• 33:29
  So we really, really, really need to have this experience of how does it work in these different lands and what are the rules we need to follow.
• 33:39
  We have the expert.
• 33:40
  Tompkins ventures is in 59 countries, so we have the ability to make that happen.
• 33:47
  And so we would love to have an opportunity to talk to folks about what we do and how we do it.
• 33:53
  And there's absolutely no fee for you, you calling and talking and, and in fact, we have a document called the Pricing Guide for xshoring.
• 34:06
  Xshoring is the process that allows us to drive reglobalization.
• 34:11
  Be happy to send this to you as well.
• 34:13
  So thanks for asking, Dave.
• 34:15
  It's a great question and I just look forward to continuing to have these sessions with you.
• 34:21
  I know we haven't decided on a cadence, but the Trump impact on supply chain is kind of like, oh my goodness, President Trump is making a lot of really interesting things happening.
• 34:38
  The impact it has on supply chain is going to have a lot of impact on what happens in the world going forward.
• 34:46
  And so great time to be doing supply chain.
• 34:49
  Great time to have a dynamic leader in the White House that's leading us on a path that's going to renew our strength and it's going to be fun to see where it goes.
• 34:59
  No doubt about that.
• 35:00
  Okay.
• 35:01
  And we're going to link all those white papers in the show notes, so that way if people want to check them out, they can just click the link and they'll get it emailed right to them.
• 35:09
  So.
• 35:09
  All right, Jim, thank you so much for being here and sharing all this knowledge and what you're doing.
• 35:13
  And yeah, we'll certainly be back with more of these discussions as the situation evolves.
• 35:17
  So thank you.
• 35:18
  Thank you, Dave.
• 35:19
  Appreciate it.
• 35:19
  Thank you so much.