Latest / Left of the Projector / Halloween III: Season of the Witch (1982) with Podcasty For Me

Transcript

Halloween III: Season of the Witch (1982) with Podcasty For Me · Left of the Projector

• 0:19
  Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. Today is Halloween,
• 0:22
  Evan: so I am your host, Scary Evan, back again with another film discussion from the left.
• 0:27
  Evan: You can support the show and listen on all platforms at leftoftheprojector.com.
• 0:33
  Evan: And it being Halloween, it only seemed fitting to discuss a movie from the franchise
• 0:37
  Evan: Halloween, the only one without the title character, Michael Myers.
• 0:42
  Evan: And I'm referring to the third installment of the franchise,
• 0:45
  Evan: Halloween 3, Season of the Witch, released in 1982, directed by Tommy Lee Wallace,
• 0:51
  Evan: produced by Debra Hill and John Carpenter.
• 0:54
  Evan: It stars Tom Madkins, Stacey Nelkin, Don O'Hellery. I said his name wrong. Don O'Hurley.
• 1:00
  Evan: The film did not include Michael Myers.
• 1:04
  Evan: It was a commercial flop, according to the studios, getting just $14 million
• 1:08
  Evan: on a $4.6 million budget.
• 1:11
  Evan: But don't let those numbers fool you. This is a great movie.
• 1:13
  Evan: and back on the show i have hosts of podcasty for me i have jake and ian thank
• 1:19
  Evan: you both for joining me this all hallows day eve no day well.
• 1:23
  jake: Thank you so much for having us and by the way today it's podcast.
• 1:27
  ian: Oh that's exactly right and i unfortunately do have to be every year halloween
• 1:33
  ian: or in this case maybe i'll be sawian for this but i like that thank you.
• 1:38
  Evan: Wait did i say did i say your podcast no.
• 1:40
  ian: No no we're just making it spooky.
• 1:42
  Evan: Oh podcast oh got it okay yeah.
• 1:45
  jake: I mean there were a lot of different variations there was like odd ghastly gore shriek that's too much.
• 1:51
  Evan: Though i just.
• 1:52
  jake: I scaled it back so honestly you got aphysium.
• 1:56
  Evan: Not too bad but yeah so uh yeah before we get into uh this uh you know i think
• 2:03
  Evan: people may remember you from our episode on x-men the original X-Men.
• 2:07
  Evan: But did you want to tell everyone about your podcast before we talk about Halloween and Halloween movies?
• 2:15
  jake: Oh, I'd love to. Yeah, we do a show called Podcasty for Me.
• 2:20
  jake: I feel a sort of kinship with you, Evan, and with this show.
• 2:25
  jake: We talk about films from a left perspective, although we drill down into the
• 2:31
  jake: individual filmography of a particular actor, director, or writer.
• 2:36
  jake: We started with Clint Eastwood, hence the name of the show, and currently we
• 2:40
  jake: talk about the films of writer-director Paul Schrader, explore kind of their
• 2:46
  jake: context politically and historically, and also,
• 2:50
  jake: you know, goof around and make fun of each other and stuff.
• 2:54
  jake: So that's our show. We're over there at podcasty4me.com.
• 2:59
  jake: Got all your links, everything you could ever need or want. And we have a Patreon
• 3:02
  jake: where I'm about to upload a bunch of photos of Ian smiling in the beautiful
• 3:07
  jake: city of Shanghai, China.
• 3:09
  jake: So lots to enjoy.
• 3:12
  Evan: Did you just come back?
• 3:14
  ian: I did. I came back last Monday.
• 3:17
  jake: Ian is working as what's known as a wet boy. for the intelligence services.
• 3:23
  ian: What it was.
• 3:25
  jake: Yeah.
• 3:27
  Evan: The wettest boy. Got it. Well, that's great to, to have you back both on the show.
• 3:33
  Evan: And I guess before we talk about the movie at hand, I'm curious if there's,
• 3:38
  Evan: you know, it is horror season.
• 3:39
  Evan: I'm wondering if there is a film that's on your list.
• 3:43
  Evan: I mean, I guess you could have already seen it too. That was something that
• 3:46
  Evan: you hadn't seen before this year that you might, you know, would tell someone
• 3:50
  Evan: that they should also watch and enjoy or maybe not enjoy if you didn't enjoy
• 3:55
  Evan: it i don't know if you had any recommendations for the for the listeners.
• 3:58
  ian: Yeah i want to give two although i would imagine your listeners
• 4:01
  ian: intelligent people obviously they're fans of the podcast so
• 4:04
  ian: i'm not going to surprise them but i am going to
• 4:07
  ian: recommend the film for
• 4:10
  ian: children based on a ray bradbury story the halloween
• 4:13
  ian: tree this is a television oh yeah yeah i loved this growing up still love it
• 4:19
  ian: comes in at a cool hour I think you know as these TV Halloween specials do and
• 4:25
  ian: then I will also recommend the real actual cinematic movie of Brain Dead which
• 4:30
  ian: is the Peter Jackson film and it's.
• 4:33
  jake: Sometimes known as Dead.
• 4:34
  ian: Alive I think that's the US exactly and,
• 4:38
  ian: there's a screening this week I live in Oaxaca Mexico but there's a screening
• 4:42
  ian: this week and this is probably going to be my third watch the film I love it
• 4:45
  ian: it's a if you ever wanted to get somebody onto gore
• 4:48
  ian: without it being too scary or upsetting, I feel like it's the perfect movie
• 4:53
  ian: to see the sort of the pleasures of just like a nasty glorpy.
• 4:57
  Evan: Yeah. You might not want to eat soup anymore though.
• 4:59
  ian: It's true.
• 5:00
  jake: Let me turn your soup for a while. I think it set some kind of a record for
• 5:04
  jake: the most fake blood used in a film production, at least for a while. It held that.
• 5:09
  Evan: Yeah. I think that's right.
• 5:11
  jake: Yeah. That's a great one. I currently, so I'm, I haven't gotten to it yet.
• 5:15
  jake: But I have seen this year. I'm feeling like I've seen all of the good horror movies already.
• 5:21
  ian: Wow. That's great.
• 5:23
  jake: I'm really like at, I'm, I'm running out of like, at least, um,
• 5:27
  jake: canonical classics to to check out for the
• 5:30
  jake: first time although there's one that i it's managed to
• 5:33
  jake: escape uh my voracious eyeballs and
• 5:37
  jake: that is killer clowns from outer space i've never seen
• 5:40
  jake: me either it's it's on the list this year uh i
• 5:43
  jake: have it ready to go i have it queued up i haven't pulled the trigger yet uh
• 5:47
  jake: but i'm excited to check that out no idea if it's good or bad no idea if i'll
• 5:51
  jake: even like it so i won't make a recommendation however uh it's a good title and
• 5:57
  jake: it seems like it's written and directed by like three or four brothers or something so i.
• 6:03
  Evan: Didn't know that i.
• 6:05
  jake: Don't even know i.
• 6:06
  Evan: Know that it exists i've never seen it and i just people who like it i think
• 6:10
  Evan: love it but then i don't know.
• 6:11
  jake: Yeah i mean it's got a it's got a cult uh i think it's like a riff tracks classic
• 6:16
  jake: or uh well i think they did a killer clowns maze at one of the haunted,
• 6:23
  jake: the big theme park horror night things within the last couple of years.
• 6:28
  jake: So clearly it's still working for people.
• 6:30
  jake: It's still doing something for the people who like it.
• 6:33
  Evan: Yeah, I'll throw a couple recommendations. These are movies that I just saw
• 6:38
  Evan: for the first time, and I can't believe that it took me this long to see it.
• 6:42
  Evan: The first one is the Italian film Torso, directed by Sergio Martino.
• 6:47
  Evan: It came out in the early 70s, And it's kind of like the precursor to the monkeys film head.
• 6:53
  jake: So I understand it. Oh, come on. We're having fun.
• 6:58
  Evan: Well, it's like a, it's very much like a flat proto. Like, uh,
• 7:02
  Evan: I feel like the movie, one of my favorite movies, black Christmas is kind of
• 7:05
  Evan: loosely kind of, I don't want to say it's based on this, but without this one,
• 7:10
  Evan: I don't think that movie exists the year later.
• 7:12
  Evan: Maybe not. Maybe they already had written it and I'm just making things up,
• 7:15
  Evan: but I feel like they're very perfect for each other.
• 7:17
  Evan: And then also the other one that I saw, just the other day that i'm still kind
• 7:21
  Evan: of uh feeling creepy from is the movie raw ah.
• 7:25
  jake: Oh yeah yeah.
• 7:26
  Evan: It was yeah i've been getting into these a lot of these uh french um you know
• 7:31
  Evan: um extremity films yeah yeah raw ladies movie about about.
• 7:36
  ian: Uh flesh that's always a good start.
• 7:39
  Evan: Yeah it's really me out just uh yeah it's uh it's uh just it left me very much
• 7:45
  Evan: moments of just i was yeah it was uh
• 7:49
  Evan: Not as the same way that I felt after seeing the substance where I just was
• 7:52
  Evan: kind of like laughing with like a giddy person at all the gore.
• 7:56
  Evan: But yeah, it was a different, different one.
• 7:59
  Evan: But yeah, those are the two that I've watched most recently,
• 8:01
  Evan: both were on my lists and yeah, I guess I have a, the other question I sometimes
• 8:07
  Evan: ask being that it's not when it's not horror season is if you could choose an actor,
• 8:13
  Evan: I guess it could be a director living or dead to, you know, have a,
• 8:17
  Evan: a beer a smoke a drink a dinner with who might you uh who might you choose.
• 8:22
  jake: Uh i mean obviously there's a lot of
• 8:25
  jake: a lot come to mind dw griffith polanski
• 8:29
  jake: woody allen i could ask woody allen about how he dated stacy nelkin when that's
• 8:35
  jake: true uh he claims she was of age no um i mean i would love to i would love to
• 8:41
  jake: talk to charles lawton i think it would be uh a lot of fun and honestly if he could bring his wife,
• 8:48
  jake: Elsa Lanchester, with him, the Bride of Frankenstein herself.
• 8:51
  jake: But first of all, I think I could talk to, you know, just listen to him talk about anything.
• 8:57
  jake: Obviously, I have questions about Night of the Hunter. I want to hear about
• 9:00
  jake: hijinks on the set of Witness for the Prosecution.
• 9:04
  jake: Was Dietrich doing pranks? Was she like the Clooney of her time?
• 9:08
  jake: And also, I feel like saying Orson Welles would be kind of hacky,
• 9:12
  jake: so I feel like he's I'm going to go with Charles Lawton.
• 9:15
  jake: I would love to have a i assume a large beer with charles lap.
• 9:20
  Evan: Sounds about right.
• 9:21
  ian: I'm gonna i'll say a charles as well just to stick with my buddy here charles
• 9:26
  ian: burnett i think uh still alive but probably would have no interest having a
• 9:30
  ian: beer with me which is one of the things i respect so much about him i think
• 9:33
  ian: he seems like a guy who's got his own stuff going on uh verner kind of a boring pick but,
• 9:40
  ian: jake and i saw him speak live once and i mean the man can just talk about anything
• 9:45
  ian: and make it interesting and he's from.
• 9:46
  jake: Bavaria so he probably knows his way around beer I would love to know what he
• 9:50
  jake: thinks about beer like what are his opinions.
• 9:52
  ian: I mean he's got an opinion about everything and he's one of these guys who's
• 9:55
  ian: lived a life so I'm definitely gonna pick a director I'm not gonna go with a
• 9:59
  ian: film brat guy that type of person sorry to these guys but I want to hear about
• 10:03
  ian: somebody who also ran guns in Mexico or something you know that lived something
• 10:08
  ian: apart and then decided to go make films.
• 10:11
  jake: Guy who walked across Germany.
• 10:12
  Evan: He's not just going to like just drop references for 30 minutes.
• 10:16
  ian: Yeah. Yeah. No.
• 10:18
  jake: No. What about you, Evan?
• 10:21
  Evan: I'm going to go with, I say, I answer this question a lot. I feel like I've
• 10:25
  Evan: gotten over my good. I'm going to go with Joel Schumacher.
• 10:28
  ian: Okay.
• 10:28
  jake: Yeah.
• 10:29
  Evan: And totally because I watched a few of his movies recently, I just did an episode on the lost boys.
• 10:34
  Evan: I just think he would have some interesting, I don't, he has interesting politics
• 10:39
  Evan: perhaps. I mean, he's also currently slept with like 10,000.
• 10:44
  jake: Men or something in his life. Yeah.
• 10:46
  Evan: Yeah. Like Will Chamberlain level type. So I don't want to talk to him about
• 10:49
  Evan: that necessarily, although I would be curious how he had time.
• 10:53
  jake: I mean, Schumacher is one of those guys with, you know, with Guillermo del Toro,
• 10:58
  jake: with I think Scorsese has one.
• 11:00
  jake: There's there are certain directors who have an entire separate Wikipedia page
• 11:03
  jake: for their unrealized projects.
• 11:05
  ian: Yeah.
• 11:06
  jake: And that's just that's a whole conversation right there.
• 11:09
  jake: what happened with this one how did you you know how far along did you get with
• 11:12
  jake: back batman dar night do you guys know about this no it was going to make a batman movie,
• 11:19
  jake: called uh dark night but the k the shared together and the k was capitalized in the in what year,
• 11:28
  jake: uh well 2002 i mean i think i think it was after it was going to be after uh batman and robin so,
• 11:39
  jake: I don't know. I'll look this up. Well,
• 11:43
  jake: you guys talk yeah.
• 11:44
  Evan: Keep talking uh yeah i think he would be interesting guy to talk to i think
• 11:48
  Evan: he'd have uh you know there are lots of films that he's in that i would like
• 11:51
  Evan: to just ask him about you know i mean he's he is such a like a the most i don't
• 11:56
  Evan: know he has very wide ranging,
• 11:58
  Evan: films like he has things like falling down and flat miners he did the client
• 12:02
  Evan: i mean they're just such such a eight millimeter i mean that movie absolutely fucked me up when i saw it.
• 12:08
  jake: Yeah yeah Yeah, I mean, yeah, he saw Paul Schrader's Hardcore and decided it
• 12:13
  jake: wasn't upsetting enough.
• 12:15
  Evan: I think I've told this story on this podcast before, but when 8mm came out,
• 12:19
  Evan: it was in 99. I was just under the age where you could see an R-rated movie, and we tried to sneak in.
• 12:25
  Evan: But because it was so upsetting, they had a person checking tickets outside of the thing.
• 12:30
  Evan: Because they're like, no, you guys can't see this. So we had to see whatever
• 12:32
  Evan: PG movie we had bought tickets for.
• 12:34
  Evan: And then I think we tried again like a month later and saw it.
• 12:37
  Evan: And I kind of wish that I hadn't seen it.
• 12:39
  ian: I was going to say, I hate to be on the side of the movie cops,
• 12:42
  ian: but in this case, he might have been on the side.
• 12:44
  Evan: He might have been on the side.
• 12:46
  jake: I mean, this is a film about no one looking after the children.
• 12:51
  ian: That's true.
• 12:51
  jake: Yeah. So it's nice to know that there was someone, yeah, trying to protect your
• 12:57
  jake: impressionable young mind from a sad movie.
• 13:01
  Evan: Yeah, it had some crazy performance. I mean, yeah. Wasn't James Gandolfini was
• 13:06
  Evan: in it, I think, if I remember?
• 13:07
  jake: That sounds right. he pops up in a lot of stuff like that where.
• 13:09
  Evan: He's creepy like.
• 13:10
  jake: You know joel schumacher started his career as a uh the guy who painted windows
• 13:15
  jake: like display windows for uh furniture stores and stuff.
• 13:20
  ian: The one like wow.
• 13:21
  jake: Saying like christmas sale yeah exactly christmas sale that's pretty cool um
• 13:26
  jake: yeah new year's sale epiphany sale stuff like that.
• 13:30
  Evan: Oh so the two so i guess you're looked up When did those Batmans come out? Like 95, 96?
• 13:35
  jake: Yeah. It says Batman Dark Knight was, the script was written in mid-1998,
• 13:43
  jake: so it probably would have come out around 2000 if you'd been able to stay on.
• 13:47
  jake: But yeah, then there were a couple different ideas before they ended up with
• 13:52
  jake: old Chris with Batman Begin.
• 13:55
  Evan: But instead he made 8mm that year.
• 13:56
  ian: Yeah.
• 13:57
  jake: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Evan: Like, well, I'm going to go the opposite way, guys. I'm going to make a movie
• 14:01
  Evan: that just scares the shit out of children who decided to see this movie stupidly.
• 14:06
  Evan: I don't think I've seen it since. I'm like, I'm not going to ever watch this movie ever.
• 14:09
  jake: Yeah, it's not their revisit.
• 14:10
  ian: I agree.
• 14:11
  jake: No, not on the Patreon patron.com slash podcasting for me. Come on,
• 14:15
  jake: just kidding. But do go there.
• 14:17
  Evan: Yeah, that would be an interesting one. But yeah, so to talk about Halloween
• 14:21
  Evan: three, we're you and I were just kind of briefly chatting while we were getting started.
• 14:25
  Evan: I'm wondering just in general, you know, if you had seen this movie recently,
• 14:30
  Evan: you know, this is one of those films, again, that bombed in the box office,
• 14:34
  Evan: it was kind of meant to be this anthology series, because John Carpenter was
• 14:38
  Evan: really he hated Halloween, too.
• 14:41
  Evan: He like wished that they hadn't made it and, you know, in retrospect,
• 14:44
  Evan: and he was very angry about it.
• 14:46
  Evan: And he's like, okay, well, if you're going to do Halloween 3,
• 14:48
  Evan: but there's no Michael Myers, I'm in to, you know, produce it.
• 14:51
  Evan: So, what are your, you know, kind of history of the film and,
• 14:54
  Evan: you know, your thoughts on it, overall impressions?
• 14:56
  ian: Well, Jake, tell me if I'm getting this wrong. I saw this for the first time
• 15:00
  ian: with you. Was that your first time also? Or you had already seen it?
• 15:04
  jake: That is something I cannot say confidently.
• 15:08
  ian: Evasive.
• 15:08
  jake: It would have been like the second time.
• 15:10
  ian: All right.
• 15:10
  jake: Well, this is, yeah, I mean, I, I had like, uh,
• 15:14
  jake: an, a really ideal video store experience in, in coming to this film,
• 15:19
  jake: uh, at a video store that I later, uh, where I later worked,
• 15:23
  jake: um, I was, you know, returning something or browsing the aisles or, or whatever.
• 15:28
  jake: And, uh, there was a movie on the TV, um, you know, up above the shelves and
• 15:34
  jake: it, there was something weird going on.
• 15:36
  jake: A lady was like picking at a little, uh, something or other with a Bobby and
• 15:41
  jake: all of a sudden a laser came out of it.
• 15:43
  jake: Like her face turned into the most upsetting, like, uh, ripped open,
• 15:49
  jake: cooked face prosthetic and a bug came out.
• 15:52
  jake: And I said, what is this? And I believe I watched this movie before,
• 15:57
  jake: I think I watched it before I ever saw Halloween all the way through.
• 16:01
  ian: Whoa.
• 16:01
  Evan: Oh, wow.
• 16:02
  jake: Because I knew it was, you know, unrelated. So, yeah, I was...
• 16:08
  jake: i i've i've loved it ever since it's also you know it's fun to root for an underdog
• 16:12
  jake: it's fun to kind of champion a movie that people think is bad and you get to
• 16:15
  jake: say no it's good actually give it a shot.
• 16:17
  ian: Yeah i don't even feel like i'm being brave on
• 16:20
  ian: this movie i did just check the archives jake we did
• 16:22
  ian: watch it together for the first time and you hadn't seen halloween the
• 16:25
  ian: first one yet that's beautiful so we watched it
• 16:28
  ian: on jake's couch and what's my social security
• 16:31
  ian: number i can't remember i'll bleep it out great uh
• 16:35
  ian: i was stunned by it at the time i i
• 16:38
  ian: think if you're not bought in by like minute 10 of this movie
• 16:41
  ian: then it's not for you but if it's for you you're gonna
• 16:44
  ian: be i mean you're just in for a treat it's so
• 16:47
  ian: it's so good it takes elements
• 16:50
  ian: of halloween this is the thing people complained about its lack of michael myers
• 16:54
  ian: but i don't think that it's like totally unrelated to the original film it has
• 16:59
  ian: spiritual connections i think it's just not the characters i mean it's not the
• 17:04
  ian: the sort of like boring comic book sequel that maybe people wanted from a halloween
• 17:09
  ian: three but i would say well.
• 17:10
  jake: The thing is also like if you've seen any of the halloween this is the second
• 17:14
  jake: or maybe best maybe first best.
• 17:17
  ian: Halloween there's.
• 17:18
  jake: There's they're they're junk like there's some positive aspects to some of the
• 17:23
  jake: sequels but overwhelmingly like i don't think people are really riding for Halloween
• 17:28
  jake: five, you know, the way that they are for like the nightmare sequels, or I think people.
• 17:33
  Evan: You know, people stand up for the later sequels even.
• 17:35
  jake: Yeah. The later Jason ones.
• 17:36
  Evan: Yeah. I agree with that. I think, I mean, I have a spot for the first one in
• 17:41
  Evan: the series, but I used to like go hard and be like, Halloween is better than
• 17:44
  Evan: any other horror franchise.
• 17:45
  Evan: And then I've since come around to thinking like, no, that's just not the case,
• 17:49
  Evan: especially after the last two from the most recent trilogy or whatever you want
• 17:54
  Evan: to call it. And yeah, but I, um,
• 17:57
  Evan: I did not see this until about, I think, three or four years ago,
• 18:01
  Evan: I did a watch of all the Halloween movies, one Halloween, and just went through
• 18:05
  Evan: all of them until the ones that had come out.
• 18:07
  Evan: I think it was before the most recent two had come out. And I thought,
• 18:13
  Evan: man, I can't believe I hadn't seen this before.
• 18:15
  Evan: And then I think I watched it a couple of years later. I have it on Blu-ray.
• 18:23
  Evan: And just like the director, Tommy Wallace, said, he said, if this movie had
• 18:28
  Evan: been named just Season of the Witch, they thought they would have had a banger.
• 18:32
  Evan: It would have made a bunch of money. But instead, everyone wanted it to be Michael Myers.
• 18:36
  Evan: Everyone went thinking, oh, it's going to have Michael Myers in it.
• 18:39
  Evan: And then it's in it, not in it.
• 18:40
  Evan: And then they probably told their friend, Michael Myers is in it.
• 18:42
  Evan: Don't even go see that shit. And then no one did.
• 18:44
  jake: I think it also, if it had been Halloween 2, I think that might have worked better.
• 18:52
  ian: But there's already a precedent set for sequels, you're saying.
• 18:55
  jake: Right, right, right, right. But it's, you know, I think Halloween 2 was something
• 18:59
  jake: of a, was it a disappointment box office wise?
• 19:02
  Evan: It didn't do great. Let's see. I had it open before. I think it made like 20 million.
• 19:08
  ian: Mm-hmm.
• 19:08
  Evan: 25 million okay.
• 19:10
  jake: So you know not setting the world on fire.
• 19:13
  Evan: Setting him.
• 19:13
  jake: Setting michael on fire spoilers but uh yeah i mean i i they they got the guy
• 19:19
  jake: who made who painted the michael myers mask to direct a movie about evil halloween
• 19:25
  jake: masks what you know what's your problem.
• 19:27
  Evan: It sounds great and seriously and yeah i was gonna say you.
• 19:32
  ian: Brought up lost boys earlier this is this is a great of northern california
• 19:36
  ian: cinema this is true northern california which i appreciate is the way i grew
• 19:40
  ian: up so i love to see this representation it is a spooky place it's a it's a yeah
• 19:45
  ian: exactly exactly inherently.
• 19:48
  Evan: Cinematic it's foggy it's green.
• 19:51
  ian: It's sort of weirdly between suburban and rural but it's california so it's
• 19:56
  ian: developed i don't know it's prime it's prime for this stuff.
• 19:59
  jake: And and my folks live very close to where this was filmed in petaluma california
• 20:06
  jake: and there are some real connell cochran types up there we'll get to it when we get to it.
• 20:12
  Evan: But like there's.
• 20:14
  jake: Some there's some freaky rich guys up there doing weird stuff in old dairy factories for.
• 20:19
  Evan: Real and the and the thing um so
• 20:23
  Evan: i mean there are a bunch of like little funny little notes and if you watch some
• 20:26
  Evan: of the like the special features some of i mean i'll just i'll mention
• 20:29
  Evan: them maybe as they come in there but one that i saw was
• 20:32
  Evan: that tommy lee wallace said he wasn't asked to be involved in halloween too
• 20:36
  Evan: but then when he saw or like heard the script or whatever he said no i this
• 20:40
  Evan: is terrible i'm not going to be involved and then when they contacted him for
• 20:44
  Evan: the third one being no michael myers he's like yeah i'm totally in for this
• 20:47
  Evan: and you know it's uh it seemed like the script was rewritten a bunch of times and,
• 20:52
  Evan: you know, the only real original piece of it was the, you know,
• 20:55
  Evan: the weird little chip on all the masks and, you know, the,
• 20:59
  Evan: things like that and the kind of the controlling of people's minds a little
• 21:02
  Evan: bit but it seemed like they uh they're going hard for invasion of the body snatchers
• 21:07
  Evan: and uh they named it the town the same thing santa mirror is the same town.
• 21:10
  jake: Right that's another great exactly yeah so i mean it's kind.
• 21:15
  Evan: Of like that movie reimagined with kind of like the halloween california vibe
• 21:19
  Evan: i guess it's still california in both movies so.
• 21:21
  jake: Yeah i mean it it's uh the the
• 21:24
  jake: idea came from nigel neal right the court of mass guy and
• 21:29
  jake: he also uh he wrote a a tv movie
• 21:33
  jake: this like i think bbc does something called the christmas ghost
• 21:36
  jake: story or they used to it was like a christmas tradition
• 21:39
  jake: to have a ghost movie um england is
• 21:42
  jake: so weird and interesting and looks
• 21:44
  jake: a lot like this part of california honestly it's like foggy and
• 21:48
  jake: and windswept up there um but he
• 21:51
  jake: his his idea it's similar to he He did this Christmas ghost story called The
• 21:56
  jake: Stone Tape or The Stone Tapes that's about some paranormal investigators going
• 22:03
  jake: to a supposedly haunted old house.
• 22:08
  jake: And it's a big influence on things like Poltergeist, obviously.
• 22:11
  jake: And Prince of Darkness, the John Carpenter film, to the point that he is credited
• 22:20
  jake: as a screenwriter on that film.
• 22:21
  jake: carpenter credited him credited himself as martin quatermass
• 22:24
  jake: and nigel neal said i haven't seen this
• 22:27
  jake: but it sounds horrible so he really appreciated the the
• 22:30
  jake: shout out but that guy i think combines the
• 22:35
  jake: uh the the kind of
• 22:37
  jake: old and gothic spooky with
• 22:41
  jake: uh sci-fi horror in a
• 22:44
  jake: in a compelling way and um my yeah i think that's that's one of my favorite
• 22:49
  jake: parts of this film it's like the the sort of the twin horrors the joining of
• 22:53
  jake: the old uh witchy stuff with the new kind of body horror um evil computer of.
• 23:01
  ian: The advanced and ancient technology as he says yeah i i totally.
• 23:05
  jake: Agree to see.
• 23:06
  ian: The through lines of horror in the history of humanity but also to see the uniquely
• 23:11
  ian: new aspects of horror from a political perspective from a political perspective
• 23:16
  ian: I think, you know, it's exactly right.
• 23:18
  jake: Yeah.
• 23:18
  ian: The right approach.
• 23:19
  jake: Oh, he's a, he would be a Greek statue in, in Twitter avatar.
• 23:24
  ian: Easy guy. Yep.
• 23:26
  jake: To, that, to give away my, my big brain read on Conal Cochran.
• 23:30
  jake: Like he's this, he's one of these return tech freaks, but just for like the
• 23:39
  jake: Druids instead of the Greeks. Yeah.
• 23:42
  Evan: Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I, as you mentioned, kind of the beginning of the,
• 23:45
  Evan: the, the movie, you really have, it's almost like they took,
• 23:49
  Evan: I think you both said the fog, like, I mean, it's almost like they took the,
• 23:53
  Evan: you know, the elements of sort of the environment and the vibe.
• 23:58
  Evan: And then they added sort of a very similar song, like kind of the title track
• 24:02
  Evan: from Halloween and kind of Carpenter Road. And apparently, he's like, it can't be the same.
• 24:08
  Evan: So, we're just going to take out half the parts and make it,
• 24:10
  Evan: you know, kind of like the lower version.
• 24:12
  Evan: I don't – I'm not musically inclined. So, you can tell my – not understanding exactly what he did.
• 24:18
  Evan: But they explained it more succinctly in the – on the DVD.
• 24:23
  Evan: But the music is perfect. I feel like it's – Right. Yeah. I don't know.
• 24:26
  jake: There's a track called Road to Santa Mira that I put on in the car while driving
• 24:33
  jake: near my folks' house up there, and it was really foggy.
• 24:37
  jake: And I got freaked out and changed the music to, like, you know,
• 24:42
  jake: the Spice Girls or something less frightening.
• 24:46
  jake: It's really effective.
• 24:48
  ian: Yeah, I mean, it's got that beautiful synth, and the opening credits have this
• 24:52
  ian: kind of, like, digital readout type of a thing going on. And then they lead
• 24:57
  ian: directly into a chase, which I appreciate.
• 25:00
  jake: The opening shot of this movie is so good. This movie is, it's shot by Dean
• 25:05
  jake: Cundey, who worked a lot with Carpenter, but also worked a lot with,
• 25:09
  jake: he was like the guy for combining,
• 25:12
  jake: for compositing CG effects into,
• 25:14
  jake: and really adding kind of special effects into live action for a while.
• 25:19
  jake: So he shot Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Jurassic Park and all your favorite John
• 25:24
  jake: Carpenter movies. And I think this is one of his, his best films as a cinematographer because the, the,
• 25:30
  jake: dark is so dark. It's like opaque black, but then he, he has this way of making
• 25:36
  jake: like, uh, computer readouts look so bright and so like neon threatening.
• 25:44
  jake: Um, uh, yeah, it looks terrific. The, the, like spooky, uh, overpass and then
• 25:50
  jake: a guy just comes sprinting out of it.
• 25:52
  Evan: Yeah. Like the, like the cold, I know it's not really a cold open in a movie,
• 25:55
  Evan: But it sort of almost just goes straight to action and you're not treated with any background.
• 26:02
  Evan: You just see this guy running into the car yard and then you have these bizarre
• 26:07
  Evan: looking sort of fed type men. I guess you could kind of call them that.
• 26:12
  Evan: They're dressed in their nice suits.
• 26:14
  Evan: Is that playing into this town? Is that how?
• 26:18
  jake: I mean, I think so. Yeah, there's a Reagan, an early Reagan critique going on.
• 26:24
  ian: Well, I think there's an interesting sort of two handedness to it because there's
• 26:27
  ian: also the immigrant laborers coming in and replacing local people and like a foreign culture.
• 26:34
  ian: And, you know, obviously, this is not exactly the type of politics we love.
• 26:38
  ian: But I think it's first of all, it's funny that they go back to old school U.S.
• 26:41
  ian: nativism, racism of being anti Irish and dogs are Irish.
• 26:45
  ian: But also, I think, yeah, to have this gorgeous underpass opening,
• 26:50
  ian: the underpass being maybe the dark heart of the suburbs or of modern America,
• 26:55
  ian: you know, more so than the – we don't have the, like, great British manor to be scared of.
• 27:00
  ian: We have maybe the urban blight environment or we have the underpass.
• 27:04
  jake: Right. Well, yeah, because he runs into this car yard, which is sort of both
• 27:10
  jake: – it's like a graveyard of useless manufactured junk.
• 27:16
  jake: But it also is – this is a blue-collar workplace, and these suits come in,
• 27:22
  jake: and they're just like completely unfeeling.
• 27:26
  jake: We don't know yet why, but they're like – they seem to have no reaction to anything. They're just –,
• 27:31
  jake: michael myers style like uh uh unfeeling killing machines.
• 27:35
  Evan: It would have been cool if in that little court like the the
• 27:38
  Evan: the car yard they had like christine kind of
• 27:41
  Evan: like parked in the corner or something like he had he had a chance at
• 27:44
  Evan: that but i don't know because there's little nods to
• 27:48
  Evan: some of his other things i mean they show later on
• 27:51
  Evan: one of the television like the hearth on is like they're showing the
• 27:54
  Evan: original halloween i think on the tv right and this which i
• 27:57
  Evan: think is just too funny i also found out just before this that apparently jamie
• 28:01
  Evan: lee curtis his voice is the one on the operator when he's calling that's her
• 28:07
  Evan: only role in this is that she's yeah they call because then she doesn't come
• 28:11
  Evan: back i think till age 20 whatever the oh.
• 28:14
  jake: Yeah helene h2o is.
• 28:16
  Evan: That the one.
• 28:17
  jake: Though she's in she's come back several times and i think.
• 28:19
  Evan: Well she's in everyone since then it's just like yeah.
• 28:22
  jake: They're non those are non-canon return josh hartnett is her son at some point.
• 28:28
  Evan: Yeah rhymes.
• 28:29
  jake: Is in one of these.
• 28:30
  Evan: Some of those later halloweens get a little they get a little get wacky there's the cult.
• 28:35
  jake: Of thorn i believe there's some kind of like they
• 28:38
  jake: i feel like they borrow from some
• 28:42
  jake: of the celtic druidic uh spooky british origins of of british irish origins
• 28:51
  jake: of halloween in the later sequels that feels almost like an admission that this
• 28:57
  jake: film had some cool stuff going on you know.
• 29:00
  Evan: Well one of the notes i wrote when i saw the
• 29:03
  Evan: you know these men dressed in their kind of suits and
• 29:06
  Evan: you don't really get this feeling until later
• 29:09
  Evan: when you see the uh like the compound where they're making
• 29:12
  Evan: the like the mask factory but it feels very like um
• 29:15
  Evan: i had a hard time describing it or thinking of
• 29:18
  Evan: how to describe it but it was almost like surveillance statey you know
• 29:20
  Evan: very um everything is very being
• 29:24
  Evan: watched over i mean you know i guess you don't get that sense in like the hospital but
• 29:27
  Evan: throughout the rest of the movie it's very much like uh
• 29:30
  Evan: you know people are being watched you have tv is the obviously the main kind
• 29:36
  Evan: of side note in this is that that's what's going to cause all the problems later
• 29:40
  Evan: on and i guess the tv also is what causes you know what people are afraid of
• 29:45
  Evan: at this time you know parents like all you kids do is watch tv and it's um,
• 29:49
  Evan: at least four different scenes where like kids are like told not to sit as close,
• 29:53
  Evan: turn this volume down. It's all very much.
• 29:56
  jake: Yeah. The TV seems to have like a real tractor beam effect on every child in this movie.
• 30:02
  jake: They are almost immediately drawn to it, stupefied by the televisions.
• 30:06
  ian: Yeah. And I think, I mean, it unites for me. I think you're right.
• 30:09
  ian: I mean, the surveillance States, but not in a red scare, paranoia about communism,
• 30:14
  ian: but rather like native, you know, the, the capitalists are looking over us.
• 30:19
  ian: the capitalists are the ones who are monitoring our behavior and trying to
• 30:22
  ian: figure out how to engage with that or take advantage of
• 30:25
  ian: it and of course the fact that they show the first
• 30:28
  ian: halloween and if you know anything about john carpenter you
• 30:31
  ian: know he's one of these guys who talks very openly about
• 30:34
  ian: how much he hates the studios how much he hates
• 30:37
  ian: the way his his uh like intellectual property
• 30:40
  ian: is treated or how how hollywood operates so you know maybe it's a little obvious
• 30:45
  ian: but to have him say like this my own film is now part of a machine that basically
• 30:51
  ian: sells masks and turns kids into to bugs i guess turns kids into uh stupid little
• 30:57
  ian: fools or something i don't.
• 30:58
  jake: Know and it belts melts.
• 30:59
  ian: Your brain yeah.
• 31:01
  jake: The the film i wonder it's hard to get a read on how much it is taking a kind
• 31:08
  jake: of perverse prankish pleasure in the fact that the kids are going to get their
• 31:15
  jake: brains melted and how much it is trying to warn us about.
• 31:19
  ian: Like.
• 31:20
  jake: Unregulated corporate greed um and and cheap manufactured goods and uh you know
• 31:28
  jake: stupefying children's televisions and commercials and all these things and it's
• 31:33
  jake: honestly it's like it's crazy that this is it this is 82 82 i.
• 31:37
  ian: Think yeah yeah.
• 31:38
  jake: 82 yeah this is like you know they had barely started doing a lot of this stuff
• 31:42
  jake: and they're already freaked out i mean this is this movie also functions as
• 31:45
  jake: a as a satanic panic movie almost at the beginning of that i think because That
• 31:50
  jake: starts in earnest in 1980,
• 31:52
  jake: so they barely had any time to get into gear talking about the Satanic Panic,
• 31:57
  jake: but shifting it from goth kids in the woods listening to heavy metal,
• 32:03
  jake: being afraid of them, to being afraid of who I think are the actual summoners of ancient evil.
• 32:10
  ian: Henry Kissinger.
• 32:13
  jake: Yes and the the uh the capitalists who are yeah they're they're awakening these
• 32:19
  jake: these ancient forces in order to further extract bugs from our heads.
• 32:23
  Evan: Well it's it's interesting in all of like the like the
• 32:26
  Evan: material the commentary tracks and everything like they don't they they mention
• 32:31
  Evan: very gently like how they're kind of looking at you know companies and corporations
• 32:37
  Evan: and all that but i don't know if it's one of those things where they weren't
• 32:39
  Evan: thinking about those things but i I find that hard to believe that that wasn't
• 32:43
  Evan: like top of mind when they're writing the script and filming it at all.
• 32:46
  Evan: I mean, it's just like, they're just kind of not saying it or they're like,
• 32:48
  Evan: this is like, it's kind of like a wink, wink, nod, nod. Like,
• 32:51
  Evan: of course it's about all these things.
• 32:53
  jake: I mean, they talk about the mall coming in and we don't see them all,
• 32:57
  jake: but they talk about a mall coming in and, and threatening the,
• 33:00
  jake: the local, uh, toy and gag shop,
• 33:04
  jake: the Grimbridges, uh, just a wonderful Halloween movie name, Grimbridge, Ellie Grimbridge.
• 33:10
  jake: And, uh, We also see the Kupfer character, the buddy Kupfer character,
• 33:16
  jake: is such a disgusting, wannabe capitalist,
• 33:20
  jake: so slick, so obviously ambitious. Yeah, their outfits.
• 33:27
  jake: I do like that the kid flips his mom off. That's pretty cool.
• 33:30
  jake: But yeah, I think it's in there.
• 33:34
  jake: And I think especially with Carpenter involved, his generalized anger at everyone
• 33:42
  jake: and especially people in power, I think it comes through.
• 33:46
  ian: Right. I mean, this is the guy who's going to make – he didn't direct the film
• 33:48
  ian: but produced this film and then makes They Live in, what, five or six years or something.
• 33:53
  Evan: I was literally – that's exactly what I was thinking.
• 33:54
  jake: Yes, exactly. And he's the guy who also makes Escape from L.A.,
• 33:59
  jake: which is worth a revisit.
• 34:02
  jake: It's not quite as worth reappraising as this film, but the ending of that movie,
• 34:08
  jake: I don't want to give away, although the movie is like 30 years old, but that is a...
• 34:15
  jake: deeply angry movie in a way that is, is pretty refreshing.
• 34:20
  Evan: Yeah. You can, uh, you can go listen to episode 62. If you want to listen to
• 34:24
  Evan: us talk about escape from LA, but we don't have an escape from New York.
• 34:27
  Evan: So we just kind of went right to the new stuff.
• 34:30
  ian: Yeah. I like it.
• 34:31
  Evan: Well, interesting.
• 34:31
  jake: Yeah. Well, yeah. The better one.
• 34:32
  Evan: I did. Well, I did actually record the first one, but the audio, you know.
• 34:38
  jake: Who's in that sucks. Uh, that, um, that's a, that's perhaps evil spirits got
• 34:44
  jake: into, the recording uh you know who's in escape from new york and also in this
• 34:50
  jake: movie the beautiful tom atkins oh.
• 34:52
  ian: That's right yeah and the fog.
• 34:54
  jake: He's and the fog and the fog he this
• 34:57
  jake: is a guy who i i misremembered him
• 35:00
  jake: at being like i thought maybe he was a cop or
• 35:03
  jake: something he plays a doctor in this but the man is
• 35:06
  jake: just so visually like working
• 35:10
  jake: he's like a working man looks like a beer the man
• 35:12
  jake: looks like a human beer uh and
• 35:16
  jake: so even though he's a doctor you can't help but think like
• 35:19
  jake: this guy is not this is not like the a
• 35:22
  jake: bourgeois he's a drunk yeah yeah he's a drunk philandering doctor he's also
• 35:28
  jake: one of these guys i don't think they make guys like this anymore where like
• 35:31
  jake: you look at him and you think he's gonna have a gut and somehow he doesn't he's
• 35:35
  jake: like pretty snatched in this film but he's got the head of like assault like a linebacker yeah.
• 35:41
  ian: I also remembered him being.
• 35:42
  jake: A cop.
• 35:43
  ian: Because of the power of his copyness and it feels like i mean he's like a martin
• 35:47
  ian: brody you know he's like a failing dad.
• 35:49
  jake: He's got the big mustache he's pockmarked well he was in uh.
• 35:53
  ian: Maniac he was and it's true that's maybe part of it part of the problem.
• 35:57
  jake: But.
• 35:58
  Evan: Yeah also also a movie worth anyone revisiting for uh.
• 36:02
  jake: Yeah that movie for.
• 36:02
  Evan: That but yeah they.
• 36:03
  jake: Was you're.
• 36:04
  Evan: Gonna you're mentioning the um but yeah tom adkins in this is is great i mean
• 36:09
  Evan: he uh his performance he like when they interviewed him about it he couldn't
• 36:13
  Evan: have loved being in this movie more he thought it was kind of like like a little
• 36:17
  Evan: bit stupid but he's like you know what i love this movie and it makes him so
• 36:20
  Evan: happy that it's popular now again.
• 36:22
  jake: He's you know.
• 36:23
  Evan: It gives him uh you know makes him feel like it was worth worth it but he also
• 36:29
  Evan: is like the shittiest dad maybe in any of these.
• 36:31
  jake: Carpenters dude.
• 36:33
  Evan: Just dude shows up with those like shitty plastic masks for his kids and they're like.
• 36:37
  jake: No dad he's late he's been drinking and.
• 36:42
  ian: They already have masks oh man.
• 36:45
  jake: There's a,
• 36:46
  jake: There's a brand of old Halloween costumes. I forget what the name of the brand
• 36:50
  jake: is. Do you guys know about these?
• 36:52
  jake: They were very popular and successful. And basically any type of costume or
• 36:58
  jake: property from the 70s, you could get a costume from these things.
• 37:02
  jake: But the costume, in scare quotes, is a plastic mask and then a printed square
• 37:10
  jake: trash bag that you put on your body that says the thing.
• 37:13
  jake: so it's not even like so if you were like the wolfman or whatever it would have
• 37:18
  jake: a wolfman mask but then the plastic trash bag wouldn't look like a ripped shirt
• 37:22
  jake: with like wolfman fur coming out of it it would like say wolfman wow.
• 37:27
  Evan: No i don't know isn't that like there's a joke about that on like one of the simpsons halloween.
• 37:31
  jake: It sounds like a very simpsons thing to make fun of like millhouse.
• 37:35
  Evan: Is wearing some mask for someone they're like i don't think he would wear a
• 37:38
  Evan: mask that looks like that if he was the.
• 37:40
  jake: Exactly yeah this is like a the kind
• 37:43
  jake: of thing dana gould would write like 10 perfect jokes
• 37:46
  jake: about uh but yeah there's like a there's a i'm excited to talk about the halloween
• 37:53
  jake: industrial complex as well because i think it's only gotten it's only gotten
• 37:57
  jake: crazy did you guys see the that spirit halloween got into like a little tiff with uh snl recently No.
• 38:05
  jake: So SNL in the opening of its... I'll look this up. It was on Twitter.
• 38:09
  jake: SNL in the opening of the 50th season, the thing we all care about.
• 38:15
  jake: They did one of those fake commercials, and it was...
• 38:22
  jake: parody of spirit halloween who's doing you know dig digging at spirit halloween um this is not,
• 38:27
  jake: a nick let's go uh no and
• 38:31
  jake: then uh spirit halloween clapped back with
• 38:35
  jake: a meme it says we are great at raising things
• 38:38
  jake: back from the dead at nbc snl and then
• 38:41
  jake: it's uh this is a meme format it's been going around it's a spirit halloween
• 38:44
  jake: costume uh container with like
• 38:47
  jake: the it says on the front what the what the costume
• 38:50
  jake: is and so it says it's got a picture of snl 50
• 38:53
  jake: the anniversary season and the name of the costume is irrelevant 50 year old
• 38:58
  jake: tv show includes dated references unknown cast members shrinking ratings wow
• 39:05
  jake: i mean this is from the official spirit halloween account so they're like yeah i mean you.
• 39:11
  Evan: Know think of how much public publicity the fake commercial not that everyone
• 39:16
  Evan: doesn't know what Spirit.
• 39:16
  jake: Halloween is.
• 39:17
  Evan: But that's and this is actually a fun fact, did you know that they made a Spirit
• 39:21
  Evan: Halloween movie that has Christopher Lloyd I did not know that.
• 39:25
  jake: Like direct to Chicken.
• 39:27
  Evan: Soup with the Soul Plus or something I don't remember who else is in it I'm
• 39:32
  Evan: sure that Christopher Lloyd wasn't in it much but the fact that that exists
• 39:36
  Evan: in the world is kind of sad and.
• 39:38
  jake: He probably says Great Scott at some point.
• 39:41
  Evan: Oh god It made $81,000 in the two theaters.
• 39:47
  ian: Wow.
• 39:48
  jake: That's actually a lot of money for two theaters.
• 39:50
  Evan: It's all two cities. It was in Georgia. Wait, no, I don't know. It doesn't say, look.
• 39:57
  jake: If I, if I had $81,000 to my name, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be shaking a stick.
• 40:02
  Evan: Well, the question doesn't say how much they know.
• 40:05
  ian: No, I'm sure.
• 40:06
  jake: Yeah. I read that it was free. The movie was free. So they have, they got all 81,000.
• 40:11
  Evan: Well, they, they just shot it in the old, uh, spirit Halloween.
• 40:14
  jake: Exactly.
• 40:15
  Evan: Right.
• 40:15
  jake: The former circuit city or whatever.
• 40:17
  Evan: Toys R Us, something like that.
• 40:19
  jake: But, uh, Spirit Halloween, like Silver Shamrock, has sort of taken over the
• 40:26
  jake: guts of a de-industrialized husk, you know? The guts of a husk.
• 40:32
  Evan: Oh, no way. The film was actually shot at a Spirit Halloween.
• 40:35
  ian: Wow.
• 40:37
  Evan: In Rome, Georgia.
• 40:39
  jake: Okay.
• 40:40
  Evan: Wow.
• 40:40
  jake: Rome, Georgia.
• 40:40
  Evan: That was a joke that I made that turned out to be like too on the list.
• 40:43
  ian: Yeah, you're too tapped in.
• 40:45
  Evan: Yeah. I mean, we can certainly talk about that. I mean, it's sort of,
• 40:48
  Evan: uh, there are other parts to the movie, but I think it's worth talking about.
• 40:51
  Evan: So part of, I didn't even really describe the plot, but you can,
• 40:55
  Evan: you can go on to the internet and watch it or go on Wikipedia.
• 40:59
  Evan: But essentially we have this doctor who's played by Tom Atkins,
• 41:02
  Evan: who, you know, kind of uncover someone at his hospital who is kind of just destroyed,
• 41:08
  Evan: uh, murdered by just like their, what are they, does it, does this where he
• 41:11
  Evan: crushes his face or is that his eyes pushed in?
• 41:14
  ian: Yeah.
• 41:14
  Evan: Yeah.
• 41:15
  jake: It feels like he pulls on the bridge of his.
• 41:17
  ian: Note he's like pulls it straight up and out somehow.
• 41:20
  jake: It's really nasty one of the first bits of uh.
• 41:24
  ian: Gore it's the second because we get a great kill again at like minute three when or.
• 41:30
  jake: When they pull the guy's head.
• 41:31
  ian: No no no when he uh pulls the car like the chain that's holding the car and
• 41:34
  ian: then the car rolls in and squishes the fed guy oh yeah Yeah.
• 41:39
  jake: Yeah, yeah, yes.
• 41:40
  ian: But, yeah.
• 41:41
  Evan: Yeah, I mean, all the, all the, like, gory effects and all in this are all,
• 41:45
  Evan: you know, all practical effects, which is a, you know, mostly Carpenter specialty.
• 41:50
  Evan: But, yeah, so you have the, so you basically have that. And then you're introduced
• 41:52
  Evan: to sort of the second, the female lead in this, Stacey Nelkin,
• 41:57
  Evan: or Stacey Nelkin, character Ellie Grimbridge.
• 42:00
  Evan: And she's, you know, her father was the one who had been running around at the
• 42:03
  Evan: beginning of the film, we find out. And he's been murdered.
• 42:05
  Evan: And they team up to essentially get to the bottom of this. And Tom Adkins,
• 42:09
  Evan: of course, comes on to Ellie and, you know, she's what, 24 and he's got to be what?
• 42:15
  jake: She's older than she looks. That's all that she says. Stacey Nelkin...
• 42:19
  jake: claims that uh manhattan the woody allen film was based on her relationship
• 42:24
  jake: with woody allen when she was seven or sorry when she was 16 i'm.
• 42:28
  ian: Not inclined to doubt it you say claimed i'm gonna say yeah i guess this is alleged but.
• 42:32
  jake: Right extremely likely.
• 42:34
  ian: Is that it legally i.
• 42:35
  jake: Don't think what he has much uh.
• 42:37
  Evan: Much uh much you can't buy much stock in the right he says.
• 42:40
  jake: Yeah he says he agrees that they dated but that she was not underage when they
• 42:44
  jake: did so by his estimate that's.
• 42:47
  Evan: Not how time works.
• 42:48
  jake: He was merely a 42 year old dating an 18 year
• 42:50
  jake: old so that's fine that's perfectly fine um and then she's she's one of those
• 42:55
  jake: people who uh kind of stopped acting and became a like a substance abuse therapist
• 43:00
  jake: like a licensed substance abuse therapist but also she goes on fox and friends
• 43:05
  jake: and talks about like relationship advice so i don't know what's going on with stacy nildred.
• 43:09
  Evan: Yeah she did have i learned in the uh in the behind the scenes or the little
• 43:13
  Evan: documentary was that in the movie because she had her she had one uh love scene
• 43:18
  Evan: with tom atkins apparently.
• 43:20
  jake: She had a.
• 43:20
  Evan: No nipple clause in her contract so.
• 43:23
  jake: That it was.
• 43:23
  Evan: They apparently had to practice like the positioning so that it would all match
• 43:27
  Evan: up and she also was like tom atkins was really sweet about the whole thing and
• 43:30
  Evan: you know it was a little bit.
• 43:31
  jake: Weird to.
• 43:32
  Evan: Hear her talk about it but you know.
• 43:33
  jake: Santa's cousin nipple clause hey it's the wrong holiday you.
• 43:40
  Evan: Gotta save that joke for uh.
• 43:42
  jake: I will yeah i will save.
• 43:43
  ian: That but yes.
• 43:45
  jake: Hey no i mean she does something in this film that it absolutely disgusted me
• 43:50
  jake: which is getting out of the shower and drying herself off with a blanket,
• 43:55
  jake: she pulls the blanket from the the motel bed this was this is what you do.
• 44:00
  ian: In like an.
• 44:01
  jake: Emergency like.
• 44:02
  ian: If the building is on fire.
• 44:04
  jake: You could do that she like puts down the towel to wrap herself in the blanket
• 44:08
  jake: i assume to kind of titillate the audience because you're like oh she's going
• 44:12
  jake: to change out of the towel or something but you know whatever uh the rose of
• 44:16
  jake: shannon motel of course yes well.
• 44:19
  Evan: Yeah and so they they kind of follow the uh the trail and as we learned throughout
• 44:23
  Evan: the heavily used commercial for silver shamrock is this you know mask company
• 44:29
  Evan: they made three different masks they're kind of advertising constantly on tv
• 44:33
  Evan: and if you're listening later you might hear that jingle right now, perhaps.
• 45:16
  Evan: Yeah, and it's based on the London Bridge is Falling Down.
• 45:19
  Evan: It really gets in your head. Apparently, the cast was saying,
• 45:23
  Evan: to this day, they can't shake it out of their heads.
• 45:27
  Evan: And apparently, Tommy Lee Wallace, the director, was the voice on the commercial.
• 45:32
  jake: Oh, that's fun.
• 45:33
  Evan: He also is the voice of the radio announcer in The Fog.
• 45:38
  jake: Oh, great.
• 45:38
  Evan: They got a lot of voiceovers. But yeah, so that's kind of how we kind of get
• 45:43
  Evan: to learning about this company.
• 45:46
  Evan: so a shamrock which is owned by this you know very irish name it's uh conal cochran connell,
• 45:54
  Evan: yeah connell not connell connell cochran uh and you know that's where we kind
• 45:59
  Evan: of are introduced to this police very heavily police statey kind of company
• 46:05
  Evan: town with just surveillance cameras everywhere like super high tech but we also
• 46:09
  Evan: learned that they don't hire anyone from the town, which is also very weird.
• 46:14
  Evan: And I mean, this is a good point where we could talk about some of that Halloween,
• 46:16
  Evan: you know, where I think one of the main themes of, you know,
• 46:19
  Evan: you could probably say like, oh, this movie is about capitalism.
• 46:22
  Evan: But like, literally, I think this whole, you know, piece of the movie of this
• 46:26
  Evan: company that is essentially seemingly taking over the industry of masks,
• 46:31
  Evan: like their other crappier masks, but no one wants to buy them.
• 46:34
  Evan: They've kind of cornered the market.
• 46:36
  Evan: And they've taken over this town. They, I don't even know how this town survives.
• 46:41
  Evan: like where are the people working.
• 46:42
  ian: Yeah i mean they take over like they take over
• 46:45
  ian: an old factory it used to be a dairy town and then
• 46:48
  ian: they turned it into this this mask factory town and look
• 46:51
  ian: i think it's perfect in some ways because as somebody
• 46:54
  ian: who now lives abroad and sort of
• 46:56
  ian: has a i have a different sense now of how the story of
• 47:00
  ian: the american dream registers to people outside the u.s which
• 47:03
  ian: is not to say that it's totally distinct unfortunately you know part of
• 47:06
  ian: the reason that people leave their countries which
• 47:09
  ian: the u.s has extracted resources and labor from and
• 47:11
  ian: want to go to the u.s is because you are told that there you could
• 47:15
  ian: become the factory owner and you could be running your
• 47:17
  ian: own town so i think the fact that we have connell what a
• 47:20
  ian: pleasure i mean that's exactly the film is sort of saying like the
• 47:23
  ian: culmination of this dream is a an awful nightmare to be the owner of what is
• 47:29
  ian: the equivalent of like a mining town company where everybody in the town is
• 47:33
  ian: an automaton that works for you and has lost their humanity and probably are
• 47:38
  ian: paid in script or not paid at all or whatever the equivalent is for Halloween.
• 47:43
  jake: The masks are edible. They watch your masks.
• 47:47
  ian: Mostly cellulose.
• 47:48
  Evan: When I was watching it, I couldn't help but think, I guess I kind of forgot
• 47:51
  Evan: to mention that, that all the people who work there are these,
• 47:53
  Evan: they're not really, would you call them robots?
• 47:56
  jake: They're like drones. I think it feels like a kind of Reagan-era,
• 48:02
  jake: critique of of the the corporate
• 48:06
  jake: self you know the uh the suit who
• 48:09
  jake: goes to get the office job there's one really uh
• 48:12
  jake: wonderful shot where this is
• 48:15
  jake: when when um dr chalice is
• 48:18
  jake: first kind of catching on that these guys are not human and
• 48:22
  jake: he sees a bunch of them sort of stationed all over the place staring
• 48:25
  jake: at him but there's one guy who's standing in a doorway and the
• 48:29
  jake: the light the sunlight is hitting the doorway
• 48:32
  jake: such that like his head and shoulders are in
• 48:35
  jake: shadow and the bottom of him is is in the sun and he's just standing there looking
• 48:39
  jake: and it's like the kind of illumination that would that would land on a inanimate
• 48:44
  jake: object and it's just like a really smart bit of filmmaking uh you know these
• 48:50
  jake: these guys are really freaky they're like little american psychos cochran.
• 48:53
  Evan: Says uh at some point uh you know they're easy to control unlike like, you know, real people.
• 48:59
  Evan: And I mean, it's kind of not lost that, you know, that's what they want,
• 49:04
  Evan: right? That's what these corporations want. They want people who will just do as they're told.
• 49:08
  Evan: They'll be fine when you destroy their union and they'll take their shitty pay
• 49:13
  Evan: and they'll live in their company town and they'll just follow whatever shit you want.
• 49:16
  jake: Or even better robots who don't need pay or food or house.
• 49:20
  ian: Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say, except to bring it back to your earlier point, Jake,
• 49:24
  ian: I think the film is doing the much better historical, we could sort of say like
• 49:28
  ian: Marxist reading of this labor exploitation process because they're not just like modern robots.
• 49:36
  ian: There's this connection to sort of like clockwork.
• 49:39
  jake: Automata sort of this like humans.
• 49:41
  ian: Have long been interested in automating and making
• 49:44
  ian: their their work easier which is understandable but also
• 49:47
  ian: and then we go even farther back to the irish sowan
• 49:50
  ian: like sacrificing children to make society work
• 49:54
  ian: to to keep things going to to do what we have to to i think he says like have
• 49:58
  ian: control over our environment or something so you know this is this is a new
• 50:02
  ian: version this is a new iteration so when we critique modernity we can look out
• 50:07
  ian: for new stuff but we should also be paying attention to how it fits into this rich and awful.
• 50:11
  jake: Past but what i really like about the way this movie does it
• 50:14
  jake: that i feel like it it would be easy for a
• 50:17
  jake: movie like this to reveal also that conal cochran is like 2 000 years old and
• 50:22
  jake: has been doing this the whole time but i think crucially he's not he is like
• 50:26
  jake: a a contemporary vc guy who gets really into some esoteric uh philosophy and
• 50:35
  jake: decides that he is like the contemporary,
• 50:38
  jake: uh uh what's the guy of samoth
• 50:41
  jake: race he decides he's a contemporary guy of samoth race or whatever and and i
• 50:47
  jake: think it's it's crucial that he's not a magic being he is a dude who is taking
• 50:52
  jake: the parts of like a historical cosmology that fit his own ends or that seem right to him.
• 51:01
  jake: Although to his credit, to Cochran's credit,
• 51:05
  jake: it doesn't seem like he's doing this to get rich. He wants power,
• 51:08
  jake: but it's like beyond monetary power.
• 51:10
  jake: There is a, you got to respect the man with genuine blood lust sometimes.
• 51:16
  jake: Um, and, uh, of course that wonderful brogue.
• 51:21
  jake: Oh, he's got such a, he's got such a, a Walt Disney, like Orville Redenbacher
• 51:26
  jake: kind of kindly old industrialist.
• 51:28
  ian: Yeah. Dan O'Hurley, he, for those who, uh, watch twin peaks is Andrew Packard
• 51:33
  ian: in that show. and then also is in Imitation of Life and RoboCop.
• 51:38
  ian: I mean, he's got a real career, this guy.
• 51:40
  jake: But I think he often is playing the big boss of this guy.
• 51:44
  jake: His introduction, we don't see him, but we see his limo or town car go by,
• 51:50
  jake: and there's no noise coming from it at all.
• 51:53
  jake: So it's just sort of gliding through like a ghost car.
• 51:57
  Evan: Did he invent electric cars too? Is he like Elon Musk?
• 52:01
  ian: Oh, yeah.
• 52:02
  Evan: Level genius?
• 52:03
  jake: The driving dutchman oh yeah we we should shout
• 52:06
  jake: out uh i don't know if it's nancy kaiser kiez uh
• 52:10
  jake: or credited as nancy loomis professionally um from she's annie in halloween
• 52:15
  jake: and halloween 2 and she plays chalice's uh ex-wife in in this film and was also
• 52:22
  jake: the she's the real life ex-wife of tommy lee wallace they were married oh they are no longer know.
• 52:28
  ian: This okay well it doesn't paint her in the best lights.
• 52:33
  Evan: No, like every time she's on the phone too, she's really just nag.
• 52:37
  jake: Nag, nag. Yeah. Not, not a great, uh, not the most feminist portrayal.
• 52:42
  Evan: No. Yeah. And was there something else about the, like, I actually,
• 52:45
  Evan: the, this, the other thing about it, I mean, you said he's not really interested
• 52:49
  Evan: in like really becoming wealthy.
• 52:50
  Evan: It seems like all the money he's using is to develop, you know,
• 52:54
  Evan: these robot, you know, creature, uh, you know, automaton people.
• 53:00
  Evan: And then also the rest of the resources to bring in part of Stonehenge,
• 53:04
  Evan: which is kind of like the thing, the plot this all hinges on.
• 53:06
  Evan: You see it like a little TV report early in the movie where a part of Stonehenge
• 53:10
  Evan: is missing. And then like, he just somehow got it.
• 53:12
  jake: Yeah. I really love that where he's like, you know, I could tell you how we got it here.
• 53:17
  jake: You won't believe me. And that's, that's all we get, which like, you know what?
• 53:20
  ian: Fair play.
• 53:21
  jake: That's who cares? Yeah. He's he's, they're like chipping pieces of Stonehenge
• 53:28
  jake: off to turn them into, to put them into little logos.
• 53:32
  jake: I do like also that the, the evil, the, the violence comes from the logo itself.
• 53:38
  ian: Uh huh. Well, the logo with the microchip embedded in there.
• 53:41
  jake: Right. So it's like an evil microchip and a piece of ancient, uh,
• 53:47
  jake: what does he call it a like a not a stone.
• 53:49
  ian: Circle ancient sacrificial circle sacrificial circle yes.
• 53:53
  Evan: Well he also it's like the particles he's describing it is like on it yeah rubs
• 53:57
  Evan: one on there and he's like up see it's ready to go.
• 53:59
  ian: This is the this is the perfect amount of explanation for
• 54:02
  ian: me of like bring me all the way and we also get a nice
• 54:05
  ian: scene just the film is so good at so many things there's a
• 54:08
  ian: mask production scene where you know i just
• 54:11
  ian: love to see yeah see this kind of kind of stuff and evan
• 54:14
  ian: you mentioned the fact that the film does not hold your hand
• 54:17
  ian: with the opening and i think similarly it's sort of like it
• 54:21
  ian: just orients you further because we see this chase we don't
• 54:24
  ian: really know what happens and then we cut to this
• 54:26
  ian: guy sitting in like a gas station watching the commercial and the power goes
• 54:31
  ian: out so it's sort of like confusing it further but it's so it's such an appealing
• 54:35
  ian: bit of filmmaking i don't know the film is sort of like more interesting at
• 54:39
  ian: every turn that it has any right to be even if it has some you know slightly like low budget uh,
• 54:47
  ian: unconcerned moments but but there's other moments where you just think like
• 54:50
  ian: wow this is i just would not have bet that this was in here yeah.
• 54:53
  Evan: And they have they have the like there's a scene where one of the guys you know lights himself.
• 54:56
  ian: On fire.
• 54:57
  Evan: In a car like there's just things that you're just very confused about what's
• 55:00
  Evan: going on at that point you probably realize there's something also the music
• 55:04
  Evan: that comes on anytime you see those workers is i don't know how to describe it but it's like a,
• 55:10
  Evan: i don't know uh i maybe i'll be able to find it.
• 55:14
  ian: But i.
• 55:15
  jake: Mean it fits with it fits with with carpenters.
• 55:18
  ian: Yeah synth.
• 55:20
  Evan: Yeah it's like a little synth vibe it kind of gives you that body snatchers again.
• 55:24
  ian: Element too.
• 55:24
  Evan: We're like oh these guys are.
• 55:26
  jake: Absolutely doing.
• 55:27
  Evan: Something suspicious and yeah i also love the one note that i saw too was that
• 55:32
  Evan: apparently only one of the masks was actually made for the movie so these were
• 55:37
  Evan: already existing masks so i.
• 55:39
  jake: Don't i.
• 55:39
  Evan: Wonder then if the production thing was the actual production for.
• 55:43
  jake: Possible i mean it's like the you know the the
• 55:46
  jake: michael myers mask was famously a william shatner mask painted
• 55:49
  jake: white so yeah you know there
• 55:52
  jake: there's something inherently upsetting about the halloween mask in real life
• 55:57
  jake: and people love to talk about like the uh to joke about the legally dissimilar
• 56:02
  jake: uh names for costumes like you know you'll get like a it's obviously an austin
• 56:09
  jake: powers costume but it's unlicensed so it's like.
• 56:11
  ian: Groovy agent or.
• 56:14
  jake: Whatever or like mystery dog and it's scooby-doo but it can't it can't say exactly
• 56:19
  jake: what it is um and i think yeah there's some some of that,
• 56:23
  jake: There's like an inherent shadiness and kind of grifter vibe to Halloween because
• 56:32
  jake: it's the Halloween industry because it sort of comes and strikes quickly in
• 56:36
  jake: like a month and a half and then disappears for the rest of the year.
• 56:40
  jake: And, you know, I think this film gets at that in an effective way,
• 56:44
  jake: especially because Cochran is revealed to be like a former gag man.
• 56:49
  jake: Like he used to make pranks.
• 56:50
  ian: He invented the sticky toilet paper or something. I forget what they said.
• 56:54
  jake: Yes, he invented the sticky toilet paper. And buzzer. Yeah. There's another.
• 57:02
  Evan: Does he say another one?
• 57:03
  jake: Yeah, he says another one. I have it here somewhere. The dead dwarf gag.
• 57:09
  jake: What could the dead dwarf gag be? That's a big step up from fake dog.
• 57:15
  ian: What's funny is that they are saying these things, but they are showing not
• 57:19
  ian: like spencer's gift stuff they're showing if anybody has been to san francisco
• 57:22
  ian: there's a museum near fisherman's wharf called the musee mechanique it's like
• 57:28
  ian: a weird museum of yes any arcade and and sort of like uh it's.
• 57:32
  jake: Not in that's in uh don siegel.
• 57:34
  ian: Oh is it is it in uh i think that's in
• 57:37
  ian: you know what i'll look it up one with eli wallach is that the one you're talking
• 57:41
  ian: about it is the one with eli wallach i'll figure out what it is all right uh
• 57:44
  ian: but i think it's a funny contrast because they're making him sound like i don't
• 57:49
  ian: know like mr goofball but they're showing these sort of elaborate clockwork
• 57:53
  ian: creations i don't know i enjoyed it.
• 57:55
  Evan: Well they actually forgot one other he also has the soft.
• 57:58
  ian: Oh yeah the soft i looked.
• 58:01
  Evan: It up and apparently i was trying to figure out like what the dead dwarf is
• 58:04
  Evan: and it's like this is the only.
• 58:05
  ian: Reference like in the history of yeah of cinema the.
• 58:09
  jake: Film is uh is the.
• 58:10
  ian: Lineup by the way Don Siegel's The Lineup.
• 58:13
  jake: Written by Sterling Siliphant, who's, in addition to being a funny name to say,
• 58:17
  jake: is also a renowned screenwriter.
• 58:22
  jake: And wrote something, I believe he wrote something that we talked about on podcasting
• 58:27
  jake: for him. Oh, yeah, he wrote, he's credited on The Enforcer, the third Dirty
• 58:30
  jake: Harry movie. There you go.
• 58:32
  jake: And Village of the Damned, which is a big John Carpenter film.
• 58:37
  jake: So, you know, big influence on him, and he remade it.
• 58:40
  jake: And that's another, he puts that up in the same part of Northern California.
• 58:44
  jake: There's something spooky about this place to him. It is a big dairy production place, too.
• 58:50
  jake: In Petaluma, where my folks live, every year there's like, it's like the egg and dairy festival.
• 58:57
  jake: And some 17-year-old girl is crowned egg and dairy queen.
• 59:02
  ian: Queen.
• 59:04
  jake: Well, she's queen of both. I don't think there's an individual.
• 59:07
  Evan: Well, the...
• 59:09
  Evan: This is unrelated to that, but going back to the mask thing and also the little
• 59:14
  Evan: token, what would you call the thing that's on there?
• 59:19
  jake: It's like a badge or a tag. It is like a pog.
• 59:23
  Evan: A pog with computer magic, something inside, microchip that's tracking people,
• 59:31
  Evan: which is also another thing too, the idea that they can track the people who own their masks.
• 59:36
  Evan: This is at the beginning of, I don't know,
• 59:38
  Evan: we guess we don't really know as much about what the cia was doing at this point
• 59:42
  Evan: but like the whole uh mask production and then the company there and then the
• 59:46
  Evan: fact that they then did sell masks after also like just adds to the you know
• 59:51
  Evan: maybe john carpenter dig at the idea that his stuff is being i think you mentioned earlier.
• 59:57
  jake: The fact that the fact.
• 59:58
  Evan: That yeah that halloween is in the
• 1:00:00
  Evan: movie also shows that you know this he doesn't own any of this stuff and.
• 1:00:05
  jake: Right they're they're using his film to like lure children to their deaths right the ultimate prank.
• 1:00:12
  ian: The ultimate prank.
• 1:00:15
  jake: Yeah you're right killing children the ultimate prank that film is also like
• 1:00:20
  jake: involves both a murderous child and children who are threatened right right
• 1:00:25
  jake: carpenter in in assault on precinct 13 an early instance of on-screen violence
• 1:00:31
  jake: toward a child something that.
• 1:00:33
  ian: Upset me to see in cinema yeah seeing a child shot.
• 1:00:36
  jake: Yeah like.
• 1:00:37
  ian: Sort of an unadulterative i.
• 1:00:40
  jake: Mean i think this this movie really threads
• 1:00:43
  jake: the needle because basically the kid puts
• 1:00:47
  jake: the mask on by the way at just a
• 1:00:49
  jake: lifelong anxiety of mine it's like
• 1:00:52
  jake: putting stuff on my head and not being able to get it off so this is a yeah
• 1:00:58
  jake: this film is really speaking to me on so many levels uh but you know he sort
• 1:01:03
  jake: of tips forward And then we see an obviously fake like dead boy with with bugs
• 1:01:10
  jake: and snakes coming out of holes in the mask.
• 1:01:12
  jake: So they really, I think they make it as on upsetting as possible.
• 1:01:17
  jake: And there's a I've seen a few films recently that have like pretty,
• 1:01:24
  jake: pretty grotesque violence towards children in the context of a horror movie.
• 1:01:28
  jake: and in a way that i just think is like not
• 1:01:31
  jake: it's unearned it's not fun it's not
• 1:01:35
  jake: spooky there's a there's a line you have to you have
• 1:01:37
  jake: to ride this line with a horror movie where i mean this is why slasher movie
• 1:01:41
  jake: victims are often underwritten right because like you don't feel bad when they
• 1:01:46
  jake: die um and i think having you know they're very fairly recent films so i won't
• 1:01:53
  jake: name them in case people care about spoilers,
• 1:01:55
  jake: but like just having a kid get brutally murdered for the sake of shock is especially
• 1:02:02
  jake: right now seeing genuine images of horrific violence against Palestinian children. Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  jake: and lebanese children uh i i'm not interested in that for my horror movie um
• 1:02:14
  jake: just go ahead and have bugs crawl out of a mask like that i can handle you know.
• 1:02:18
  Evan: Yeah i don't know apparently that
• 1:02:21
  Evan: scene like from a like the production of it they only had one
• 1:02:25
  Evan: like the mask that he starts so he's wearing the regular mask and then you can
• 1:02:28
  Evan: clearly see it's like a different mask they only had one so you only had one
• 1:02:32
  Evan: take to take it oh they were afraid he was gonna like rip it apart too soon
• 1:02:36
  Evan: before he like falls and they switch body or whatever and I don't know like
• 1:02:40
  Evan: it doesn't look great but it's you know it's enough the snakes there's.
• 1:02:44
  ian: Enough snakes and bugs that it sort of makes up for any of the silliness of
• 1:02:48
  ian: the mask and you can sort of see his hair coming out the back I found that that
• 1:02:51
  ian: was the right level of creepy for me.
• 1:02:53
  jake: Yeah I just imagine the poor PA who has to like try to get.
• 1:02:57
  ian: All the crickets out of that.
• 1:02:58
  Evan: So there's a funny note about that is apparently for like three or four days
• 1:03:01
  Evan: after all they could hear was crickets around wow of.
• 1:03:04
  jake: Course yeah that'll happen to you.
• 1:03:05
  Evan: Yeah Yeah.
• 1:03:07
  jake: There's a famous family story. Like my aunt or something had a pet,
• 1:03:11
  jake: I don't know, iguana, something that ate crickets.
• 1:03:14
  jake: And they ordered crickets through the mail to feed to the pet because this was the 70s.
• 1:03:21
  jake: And they thought it was like a dime, a cricket, and it was a dime for 20 crickets.
• 1:03:27
  jake: So they ended up getting like 800 crickets to work at their house.
• 1:03:31
  jake: And of course, they realized there were too many crickets. It's once they had
• 1:03:35
  jake: opened the cricket housing.
• 1:03:38
  jake: So, you know, think twice before you.
• 1:03:41
  jake: Go getting a bunch of crickets for fun. It'll really bite you in the ass.
• 1:03:44
  jake: And my aunt actually was killed by this commercial in real life.
• 1:03:49
  Evan: Well, that's the whole – So I guess we kind of already talked about it a little bit.
• 1:03:54
  Evan: But the fact that his – I mean, I was joking that it's like the ultimate prank.
• 1:03:58
  Evan: But I mean, really, it's not really a prank to him. It's like this 3,000-year-old
• 1:04:03
  Evan: thing that they have to accomplish.
• 1:04:05
  Evan: And it also gave me vibes where he's saying it's like a – What did he say?
• 1:04:09
  Evan: It's like the earth needs it.
• 1:04:11
  ian: Hmm. Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  jake: Yeah. Like it appeals to some kind of balance.
• 1:04:16
  Evan: Yeah. It's almost like over, he didn't say this line, but I was almost expecting
• 1:04:19
  Evan: him to be like, Oh, it's like over the world.
• 1:04:21
  Evan: The earth is overpopulated. We have to, you know, get rid of people,
• 1:04:24
  Evan: but they're only getting rid of children.
• 1:04:27
  Evan: So presumably they're getting rid of a lot more because.
• 1:04:29
  jake: So you think he should have gone further. Is that what you're saying?
• 1:04:33
  Evan: Well, I'm saying he should have made like, if he was going to do an ultimate
• 1:04:35
  Evan: prank, it would be almost be like that. It turns the kids against their parents.
• 1:04:39
  Evan: And then they really murder them.
• 1:04:40
  ian: Which I think I maybe thought was going to happen the first time I saw the movie.
• 1:04:43
  Evan: I thought so too when I first saw it.
• 1:04:45
  jake: That's basically Village of the Dam.
• 1:04:46
  ian: Yeah, it's true. It's true. But I think the line that you guys are talking about
• 1:04:48
  ian: is, we don't decide these things, you know, the planets do.
• 1:04:52
  Evan: That's it. Yes, right. So, I mean, it felt very like a weird cult kind of vibe
• 1:04:57
  Evan: and also, you know, bringing back the Irish, you know, like, oh, this is us Irish.
• 1:05:02
  Evan: Also, this is not a very kind movie to Irish people as well.
• 1:05:06
  Evan: Kind of paints them in a bed.
• 1:05:07
  jake: Well, Ian and I both have some Irish heritage.
• 1:05:11
  ian: Yeah, I'm a Hurley, not a Hurley he, but I believe we're from the same lineage.
• 1:05:16
  jake: Okay.
• 1:05:17
  Evan: Does this offend you?
• 1:05:17
  ian: No. I love it.
• 1:05:19
  Evan: Okay.
• 1:05:19
  jake: My people are the Dooners, and they're from Killarney or something.
• 1:05:27
  jake: I don't know. But, you know, the guy came over here, he made little extremely
• 1:05:35
  jake: racist, coin-operated little tin toys, and...
• 1:05:43
  jake: managed to build an empire with
• 1:05:45
  jake: which to essentially perform like feats of planetary engineering so i yeah.
• 1:05:51
  ian: I don't feel like they're they're totally talking down to us you know he's achieving things.
• 1:05:56
  jake: Yeah yeah they are at least saying that the
• 1:05:58
  jake: irish are capable of great power whether whether
• 1:06:02
  jake: they're using that power for good or evil different question uh i
• 1:06:05
  jake: was i was reading this uh this book called masks in
• 1:06:09
  jake: horror cinema eyes without faces by alexandra
• 1:06:12
  jake: heller nicholas and to to back
• 1:06:15
  jake: you up and she talks a lot about conal cochran as
• 1:06:19
  jake: like a trickster figure a you know he's in line with loki um loki's or various
• 1:06:27
  jake: coyote various uh tricksters throughout mythology and one of the things that
• 1:06:31
  jake: uh uh one of the the commonalities among these trickster figures is that they pretend to be gods.
• 1:06:38
  jake: I think that's perhaps the ultimate prank.
• 1:06:41
  ian: Sure.
• 1:06:42
  jake: That you're God.
• 1:06:43
  Evan: I mean, that's kind of the vibe you are getting from him, like really is playing
• 1:06:47
  Evan: God that he can decide who lives and dies, right?
• 1:06:50
  Evan: I mean, I guess also a lot of the adults will die, right? Because if they're
• 1:06:53
  Evan: in their house with their kids and the snakes come out and they bite them.
• 1:06:56
  jake: That's a good point.
• 1:06:57
  Evan: So they are going to kill a bunch of people, yeah.
• 1:06:59
  jake: It doesn't necessarily, like it's not like adults couldn't put the mask on.
• 1:07:04
  Evan: That's true.
• 1:07:05
  jake: Do you guys dress up for Halloween? Evan, you have kids, right?
• 1:07:08
  Evan: I would say probably half the time now.
• 1:07:13
  Evan: okay 50 50 and.
• 1:07:14
  jake: Are you doing a what's a go-to for you are you are you doing like a pop culture
• 1:07:21
  jake: character are you doing a classic halloween.
• 1:07:23
  Evan: I think like two years ago and maybe even like four years ago i was just cameron
• 1:07:28
  Evan: from ferris bueller's day off because i have a red wings jersey yeah require
• 1:07:33
  Evan: i mean probably anyone like of like our anyone under 30 probably has no idea
• 1:07:38
  Evan: what you know what it is but like people who are like who get it like oh nice you know and that's.
• 1:07:42
  jake: Tell them that's the succession guy.
• 1:07:44
  Evan: Oh, yeah, right. Exactly.
• 1:07:46
  jake: Kids love succession.
• 1:07:47
  Evan: They do. There's another one that I was recently. I can't remember what it was now.
• 1:07:53
  Evan: My kids want me to go as like, you know, something from Lord of the Rings.
• 1:07:57
  jake: Okay. I was Frodo once when I was like.
• 1:08:02
  ian: Yeah, I did a Legolas. Yeah, when that came out. That's fun.
• 1:08:05
  jake: That makes sense. Our relative heights as younger people. Did you have fake ears?
• 1:08:10
  ian: I did have fake ears. I had to go to a Halloween store to get them.
• 1:08:13
  ian: Not a spirit, though. I think it was some kind of a local house of parties, party house.
• 1:08:19
  jake: And then I got a cloak from the Renaissance Fair months prior in anticipation.
• 1:08:28
  jake: Because I was reading the books.
• 1:08:30
  ian: Although I love to dress up. I love to participate in Halloween.
• 1:08:34
  ian: I think it's, I don't know. There's still something there for me.
• 1:08:38
  ian: There's something pure that you can find.
• 1:08:39
  ian: Maybe I'm a fool. Maybe I'm naive to say that, but I think there is something real about it.
• 1:08:44
  jake: I believe this because one time Ian came over to watch movies like on the couch
• 1:08:49
  jake: and it was, I believe there were three of us. It was me, my girlfriend and Ian.
• 1:08:53
  jake: And he disappears for a moment and comes back out having...
• 1:08:58
  jake: put himself in basically dress himself up as a full scarecrow,
• 1:09:02
  jake: like mounted to a cross made of wood.
• 1:09:07
  jake: And then he had taped to his, his front like a piece of paper and he had a bunch
• 1:09:12
  jake: of straw coming out of his, his sleeves and he was a straw man argument.
• 1:09:17
  ian: No, that's not correct. I was a red scarecrow. So you're misremembering.
• 1:09:21
  jake: Oh, okay. I'm misremembering. Well,
• 1:09:24
  jake: regardless, he, he basically crucified himself for us to go ha ha ha.
• 1:09:29
  jake: And then he took most of it off to sit down on the couch, probably to watch Halloween actually.
• 1:09:35
  ian: Yeah.
• 1:09:35
  jake: Yeah.
• 1:09:36
  ian: Yeah.
• 1:09:36
  Evan: There was a period where I was more into the, maybe it was even before kids
• 1:09:39
  Evan: where I would just do always do kind of like those pop, you know,
• 1:09:42
  Evan: current pop culture references and things like that.
• 1:09:46
  Evan: And I think I was, I was Marty McFly one year.
• 1:09:49
  Evan: Yeah. I guess it's like always ends up being like my favorite movies,
• 1:09:52
  Evan: you know, from sure. 80s, 90s.
• 1:09:54
  jake: I had a weird stick up my ass about like
• 1:09:57
  jake: i said yeah yep yep uh
• 1:10:01
  jake: i had a weird a weird like uh rigidity about
• 1:10:05
  jake: not doing pop culture costumes and trying to stay true to the the spooky tradition
• 1:10:11
  jake: and dressing as as like public domain ghosts and ghoulies so i was like i was
• 1:10:18
  jake: a a vampire one year and making sure everyone knew I wasn't necessarily Dracula. I was just a vampire.
• 1:10:25
  jake: I was a skeleton with like a body suit.
• 1:10:29
  jake: I was a chicken.
• 1:10:32
  jake: Just like any no particular chicken. But I've softened.
• 1:10:38
  Evan: Those are good. You can recycle them. You can wear that five years from now
• 1:10:43
  Evan: and no one's going to be like oh that doesn't make anything anymore. yeah oh.
• 1:10:47
  jake: You're ken bone okay.
• 1:10:49
  Evan: Well that actually i mean
• 1:10:52
  Evan: that's a good thing so in my like the notes for this i was trying
• 1:10:55
  Evan: to see like what do you think that it's around this
• 1:10:58
  Evan: time that like halloween became more of
• 1:11:01
  Evan: a phenomenon for kids like i mean i couldn't
• 1:11:04
  Evan: find any data going earlier than about 2000 ish
• 1:11:07
  Evan: as far as like what was spent in the united states on halloween but from like
• 1:11:11
  Evan: 2005 to 2018 it went from 3 billion to 9 billion and then the spirit halloween
• 1:11:17
  Evan: um bookopedia that i was looking at before said that it's even higher now something
• 1:11:22
  Evan: like they make up 10 billion which i don't i don't maybe that's true i don't know but i.
• 1:11:27
  jake: Think i think the combination of this
• 1:11:30
  jake: incredible ramp up of commercial toy
• 1:11:34
  jake: and like general kids junk manufacturing that you get in the 80s combined with
• 1:11:40
  jake: the slasher boom and the kind of slasher boom and also the video horror boom
• 1:11:48
  jake: that you get in the 1980s suggests that there's like a perfect storm of,
• 1:11:54
  jake: uh money to be spent on halloween starting
• 1:11:57
  jake: around this time you know how the halloween the movie is is 78 right and then
• 1:12:02
  jake: um the big slasher sequel craze is all throughout that decade so it would make
• 1:12:08
  jake: sense to me i don't i'm not i'm no halloween economist but it would make sense
• 1:12:12
  jake: to me that it it's really pops off around.
• 1:12:15
  ian: That i mean i think don posts the guy who created the
• 1:12:18
  ian: mask for this he also just popularized masks to
• 1:12:21
  ian: sell in general for halloween right so this is this
• 1:12:24
  ian: is also i mean we can link this to the rise of like single use materials i mean
• 1:12:30
  ian: i will say that i think probably a hundred years ago the idea that you would
• 1:12:33
  ian: buy a costume to wear one day and give that to a child who basically weren't
• 1:12:37
  ian: even considered people a hundred years ago i think it's like yeah not really
• 1:12:41
  ian: something that people were probably interested in they can barely haul,
• 1:12:44
  ian: at all so i.
• 1:12:46
  Evan: Mean they can put their hands into the machinery at the uh.
• 1:12:49
  ian: Right yeah that's that's one of the only things they have going for them but.
• 1:12:53
  Evan: You're right they could you could buy a 20 costume now to be you know snow white
• 1:12:57
  Evan: in the seven one of those seven dwarves and then you just toss that in the trash
• 1:13:01
  Evan: i mean you don't have to throw it away it like falls.
• 1:13:02
  ian: Apart by.
• 1:13:03
  jake: The end of yeah like it's they're so nasty i i saw something at the target recently
• 1:13:09
  jake: uh sorry i Maybe we shouldn't plug that.
• 1:13:13
  jake: I saw something at a concentric circle-themed big box store. They were...
• 1:13:21
  jake: I don't know if this is deliberate or if this is just the reality of long-lead manufacturing.
• 1:13:28
  jake: They have costumes for the as-yet-unreleased Sonic the Hedgehog 3 movie.
• 1:13:35
  jake: They're basically selling advertisements. They do this with the Marvel movies, too.
• 1:13:40
  jake: They're just expecting that everyone is going to enjoy Keanu Reeves' performance
• 1:13:46
  jake: as Shadow the Hedgehog enough that they won't regret dressing in Shadow of the
• 1:13:50
  jake: Hedgehog months before the film comes out.
• 1:13:53
  Evan: They're also doing this for the Wicked movie.
• 1:13:54
  ian: Wow.
• 1:13:55
  Evan: They're selling Wicked costumes. I think my daughter said that someone at school
• 1:13:59
  Evan: wants to be the character from Wicked, and you can buy that costume.
• 1:14:04
  Evan: It says NBC Universal's Wicked as the costume title.
• 1:14:09
  jake: It's right on the box.
• 1:14:11
  Evan: It just destroys the Halloween spirit. It does.
• 1:14:14
  jake: I mean, cosplay is like extreme dork shit to me, but I do respect the enormous
• 1:14:22
  jake: amount of work and craftspersonship and ingenuity that goes into people.
• 1:14:28
  jake: People like have incredible skill when they create these costumes,
• 1:14:34
  jake: even if the end result is it's confusing to me that you would want to do to do that.
• 1:14:39
  jake: I respect a hell of a lot of people who do it as opposed to just buying like
• 1:14:45
  jake: a really thin piece of like some polyester derivative that like explodes as
• 1:14:52
  jake: soon as you put it on yourself.
• 1:14:54
  ian: Plus, I have a friend. She's a seamstress. I think cosplay represents like a
• 1:14:58
  ian: significant portion of her income is like custom things that she is commissioned
• 1:15:03
  ian: to do, which I think is cool. I don't know.
• 1:15:05
  ian: I mean, in some ways it makes me feel like maybe the people who are this into
• 1:15:09
  ian: cosplay, their energy, their excitement is, is maybe being wasted somehow,
• 1:15:13
  ian: but I'm happy that they have something at least to.
• 1:15:16
  jake: Right, I feel that same way when I see an extremely impressive fan art.
• 1:15:21
  ian: Right, right, yeah.
• 1:15:22
  jake: Like, what if you weren't drawing pregnant Shrek?
• 1:15:27
  jake: You know, what if you were, but I guess, you know, you think about the great
• 1:15:31
  jake: masters, maybe they didn't want to be drawing Jesus and other biblical scenes.
• 1:15:36
  ian: That's just what the Pope paid them to draw, yeah.
• 1:15:39
  jake: And now, nowadays, the Pope is paying them to draw Anna and Elsa kissing, yeah.
• 1:15:44
  jake: so uh you know who knows
• 1:15:48
  jake: but yeah you go you go into like a joanne fabric uh
• 1:15:51
  jake: around this time of year or honestly probably like the
• 1:15:54
  jake: whole year around they have a whole section of cosplay fabrics where like they
• 1:15:59
  jake: are materials that exist exclusively like there's no reason you would buy this
• 1:16:03
  jake: unless you were making like some kind of anime cat boy superhero costume uh
• 1:16:10
  jake: so a lot of there's comic cons.
• 1:16:12
  Evan: Like every city you know they have cosplay conventions and.
• 1:16:15
  jake: I was gonna make a joke about how somebody should maybe devise a silver shamrock
• 1:16:20
  jake: style scheme for the furries but you know what i'm not now i'm.
• 1:16:25
  ian: Diverging from you i think these are good people these are again maybe.
• 1:16:28
  jake: I think that.
• 1:16:29
  ian: Well just people into.
• 1:16:30
  jake: Cosplay some of them are cops that's that's true yeah sure i.
• 1:16:35
  ian: Think they're i mean by and large
• 1:16:36
  ian: they're 16 i think and then there's something who are older but i think.
• 1:16:40
  jake: Oh the thing i would i would hope they were all 16 i think troublingly many
• 1:16:45
  jake: of them are like 30 some evan you're conspicuously silent on the furry question i stepped into i know.
• 1:16:52
  Evan: Very little other than just i i actually have heard there are a lot of cops
• 1:16:56
  Evan: that go to these things for whatever.
• 1:16:58
  jake: Reason that as well i mean it's masking it's in it's in the the ancient tradition
• 1:17:03
  jake: of of uh hiding your face so that you can you know stray from societal norms
• 1:17:09
  jake: which on the one hand that's why it's so popular with like the trans community.
• 1:17:12
  ian: And stuff right this is a connection.
• 1:17:14
  jake: To feel.
• 1:17:15
  ian: Like they're played there are spaces where people are already comfortable with
• 1:17:18
  ian: the non-normative behavior.
• 1:17:20
  jake: I saw a picture of a guy who made a fursuit of a plane like he wanted he sexually
• 1:17:25
  jake: he wanted to embody an airplane but i think that the the space for that only
• 1:17:32
  jake: exists within the furry community so for some reason it was a plane that has fur this.
• 1:17:36
  Evan: Could be like the anti 9-11 you know ah.
• 1:17:39
  jake: Yeah yeah exactly they might hate him well but.
• 1:17:45
  Evan: Speaking of like the costume this is like this is a very not a very good segue
• 1:17:49
  Evan: but one thing I am curious about is so you at some point when they're at the
• 1:17:54
  Evan: factory Ellie is sort of kidnapped or captured or.
• 1:17:58
  jake: Whatever and then.
• 1:17:59
  Evan: We later see that she becomes a.
• 1:18:01
  jake: Fembot type thing like.
• 1:18:04
  Evan: Was she killed and they just used her mold to create a new one?
• 1:18:09
  Evan: Is that what you're supposed to think? And why send?
• 1:18:13
  Evan: What's the point of sending? Is it just cool because at the end they can cut off her arm and head?
• 1:18:18
  jake: Well, some of that. And then I think also some of the – it's a good way for them to stop Dr.
• 1:18:26
  jake: Chalice before he can interrupt the plan. I always love when there's a person
• 1:18:31
  jake: clearly made up to be their own severed head.
• 1:18:35
  jake: There's a great effect shot of just some other woman's body laying face down
• 1:18:40
  jake: with like a trick severed neck.
• 1:18:44
  jake: And then Stacey Nelkin's head, clearly she's like buried under the set with
• 1:18:48
  jake: her head sticking out and blinking.
• 1:18:50
  jake: And that's always fun. Who doesn't like that?
• 1:18:53
  Evan: It's like the alien with, was it an alien?
• 1:18:56
  jake: Yeah, yeah, with Ian Holm.
• 1:18:57
  Evan: Yeah, I think a few times. And then again, with Prometheus, I think they do it too.
• 1:19:02
  jake: Oh, yeah, they do that as well. Yeah, it's fun. It's a great time.
• 1:19:06
  jake: And I think the practical effects in this are they're literally doing a lot
• 1:19:11
  jake: of the same kind of prankish physical tricks that like Connell Cochran is doing.
• 1:19:16
  jake: So I would suspect that, you know, the former art director,
• 1:19:20
  jake: Tommy Lee Wallace, does feel a certain affinity with the people making these
• 1:19:24
  jake: masks while also maybe repulsed by his own complicitness and complicity in making the Michael Myers mask.
• 1:19:34
  ian: Yeah, I mean, it is ultimately something that requires ingenuity,
• 1:19:37
  ian: but then is frequently used to dark commercial ends.
• 1:19:42
  ian: So it makes sense to feel both ways about it. And this is also just a classic
• 1:19:46
  ian: body snatchers surprise.
• 1:19:48
  ian: Somebody you feel is close to you may have also been taken in,
• 1:19:52
  ian: may have also been lost to the world of this stuff.
• 1:19:56
  Evan: That's a good point. Like it's very much of the, and I think that's what the
• 1:19:59
  Evan: end to apparently the studio did not like the ending. The ending is so good to get Carpenter.
• 1:20:04
  jake: I think it's the best part.
• 1:20:05
  Evan: Carpenter wanted them to like, they told Carpenter to convince him to change
• 1:20:08
  Evan: it. And he's like, no, fuck you. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that.
• 1:20:11
  Evan: I don't think that would have changed whether audiences liked it,
• 1:20:14
  Evan: but it's very perfect in the line of, you know, the end of both invasion of
• 1:20:19
  Evan: the body snatchers where you just kind of are left hanging, especially I think the first one.
• 1:20:24
  jake: One also i recently watched the the abel ferrara body snatchers that one's creepy,
• 1:20:29
  jake: yeah and that that has a real uh
• 1:20:32
  jake: that one is also especially like anxious about
• 1:20:36
  jake: yuppies and sort of post yuppies
• 1:20:38
  jake: but a suspicious of like suburbanism and like
• 1:20:42
  jake: the the robbing of character from
• 1:20:45
  jake: american life obviously at abel ferrara like
• 1:20:48
  jake: the the man who was like born in a downtown new york
• 1:20:50
  jake: government uh is gonna find cookie
• 1:20:54
  jake: cutter neighborhoods in the midwest upsetting but uh
• 1:20:57
  jake: i think that film is is in line with it's shares some of the same ideas and
• 1:21:04
  jake: frustrations as as this movie um and i from what i recall has a similar kind
• 1:21:10
  jake: of downer ending uh to the the first two adaptations i haven't seen the invasion
• 1:21:15
  jake: is that the one with nicole kidman yeah,
• 1:21:18
  jake: 2000s version.
• 1:21:19
  Evan: Something like that I have not seen that I feel like it's been about 20 years
• 1:21:22
  Evan: it's time for someone to do a remake I guess.
• 1:21:25
  jake: Yeah, unfortunately, I feel like it would be like an irritating,
• 1:21:28
  jake: like, Lib Trump thing, right?
• 1:21:32
  jake: Don't you think it would be like, or like a Q thing, but it wouldn't actually
• 1:21:36
  jake: be touching on, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't go far enough. I would just say
• 1:21:41
  jake: like, these people are crazy without examining why.
• 1:21:43
  ian: Without the type of historical analysis we get from this film, the continuity.
• 1:21:47
  jake: Yeah did you guys notice that the technician who is starting up the commercial
• 1:21:51
  jake: in the warehouse in the the cochran in the silver shamrock factory he punches in 666 on the panel oh.
• 1:22:00
  Evan: I didn't notice.
• 1:22:01
  jake: That's fun yeah just having a good time but.
• 1:22:04
  Evan: Clearly uh tom atkins saw him push the code in right because he knew what to press later on.
• 1:22:08
  jake: Right oh and that i mean this has become something of a even among people who
• 1:22:13
  jake: like this movie the mask toss onto the onto the security camera just like the tiger would yeah it.
• 1:22:22
  Evan: Would have been cooler if he you know if he had missed the first time and then
• 1:22:26
  Evan: had to like reach his leg out to pull the.
• 1:22:27
  jake: Mask exactly second shot yeah exactly but you know that's the kind of high school
• 1:22:33
  jake: football star athleticism you can expect from a man who looks like tom well i.
• 1:22:38
  Evan: Think he did it on the first try because he was like still a little drunk have he been oh yeah.
• 1:22:42
  jake: Right yeah like like when ian's driving yeah actually he's.
• 1:22:48
  Evan: Calling his wife lying and he or his ex-wife lying he's like grabs a six-pack
• 1:22:51
  Evan: off the top of the phone booth and he's like.
• 1:22:53
  jake: Copping in the car yeah oh we didn't even talk about the oh sorry that's.
• 1:22:57
  Evan: It i was just that's it yeah.
• 1:22:58
  jake: I was gonna say we didn't even talk about the the woman
• 1:23:02
  jake: in the like morgue or whatever who he's he's
• 1:23:05
  jake: sweet on oh yeah uh we just get
• 1:23:08
  jake: this this kind of running investigation that he checks into every once in a
• 1:23:12
  jake: while she's like you must have switched the samples there's nothing in this
• 1:23:15
  jake: this but car parts this isn't this isn't a man yeah it's really it's just a
• 1:23:22
  jake: fun kind of there's an archness to this that is not winking like it doesn't feel like
• 1:23:28
  jake: Like it thinks it's smarter than horror movies. It's just sort of,
• 1:23:32
  jake: we're all caught up in the, the kind of classic spooky tale tropes that we all enjoy.
• 1:23:39
  Evan: They send someone to kill her.
• 1:23:41
  ian: Yeah, well, that's true. Exactly. We need someone to kill. And she's to me like
• 1:23:45
  ian: a classic quarter mass figure.
• 1:23:48
  ian: There's like a lot of the only film of those that I've seen.
• 1:23:50
  ian: There's a bunch of doctors discovering things all the time. Like you're not
• 1:23:54
  ian: going to believe what this means.
• 1:23:56
  ian: So I think it's fun that she's in there, but it's also kind of a red herring that is this you know.
• 1:24:01
  Evan: Well yeah and that doesn't doesn't he she's like oh you owe me a dinner and
• 1:24:04
  Evan: you're like i owe you a dinner and he's like ah she's like i don't think you're
• 1:24:07
  Evan: actually gonna do it or whatever right clearly he just gets favors yeah he doesn't
• 1:24:12
  Evan: put out and return i guess yeah she tries to kiss him.
• 1:24:15
  ian: At another point he's he's irresistible uh tom atkins and.
• 1:24:18
  jake: Yeah clearly he was he's one of those those men who hides his age professionally
• 1:24:24
  jake: Like if you go to his Wikipedia page, it's his age is not listed.
• 1:24:28
  jake: And I admire that he's still around. No idea.
• 1:24:33
  Evan: You got Jamie Lee Curtis in the fog. So he's got, he's, you know, he's getting.
• 1:24:36
  jake: Exactly.
• 1:24:37
  Evan: He's getting the star.
• 1:24:38
  jake: I mean, he's, there's, he's got his father worth in a steel mill.
• 1:24:41
  ian: You know, like he's.
• 1:24:43
  Evan: Didn't he find the military?
• 1:24:44
  jake: This is a solid man. Yeah. He, well, he enlisted in the Navy and then this is
• 1:24:48
  jake: from Wikipedia. It says he, quote, noticed that the officers lived great,
• 1:24:52
  jake: but that was only because they had gone to college.
• 1:24:55
  jake: So he he has some some good class analysis. But then he leaves the Navy and goes to college.
• 1:25:01
  jake: But, you know, then he met a girl who was in a theater troupe.
• 1:25:05
  jake: And that's how he got into acting. It's so funny. It's so funny.
• 1:25:09
  jake: for me to think about the guys who
• 1:25:12
  jake: play like tough guys in movies at some
• 1:25:15
  jake: point taking acting classes like no matter
• 1:25:18
  jake: how tough and like robert loja would only play characters who would call actors
• 1:25:25
  jake: probably like homophobic slurs and yet robert loja is an actor yeah he's like
• 1:25:30
  jake: preparing his lines you know it's always always fun same with same with uh tom atkins did he um was.
• 1:25:37
  Evan: He in any of the um a romero movie.
• 1:25:40
  jake: Yeah he's in creep show creep.
• 1:25:42
  Evan: Show okay i thought.
• 1:25:43
  jake: So because he's like a pittsburgh he's.
• 1:25:44
  Evan: From pittsburgh so it makes sense right.
• 1:25:46
  jake: Yes yeah yeah yeah he's a creep he's in creep show evil
• 1:25:49
  jake: eyes night of the also night of the creeps is
• 1:25:52
  jake: a fun one the fred decker film enjoy that apparently
• 1:25:55
  jake: he's in drive angry i don't remember him in drive angry with uh
• 1:25:59
  jake: i don't think i've seen nick cage kind of a crazy crazy movie
• 1:26:02
  jake: a little bit a little bit knowingly crazy this is before this
• 1:26:05
  jake: kind of movie was made knowingly uh tropey or knowingly or something yeah sharknado
• 1:26:14
  jake: i'd like to put the silver shamrock mask on like the movie i think it's fine
• 1:26:19
  jake: to say that yeah that you want a movie to die well.
• 1:26:22
  Evan: It's crazy that this is the lowest grossing halloween movie and there are people
• 1:26:28
  Evan: who still i'm like oh you should see halloween theater like ah i'm sure that's
• 1:26:31
  Evan: crap And it's like, no, you should really, really go see that.
• 1:26:34
  Evan: And I don't know. A lot of fun. The last thought I had, I mean,
• 1:26:37
  Evan: this is the last thing, is I put down that it's probably, it's kind of like
• 1:26:41
  Evan: the ending is very ambiguous, which is like in a good way, like a very good
• 1:26:45
  Evan: cliffhanger ending. Yeah.
• 1:26:48
  jake: Yeah.
• 1:26:48
  Evan: Assuming that what happens, what, like, you know, you expect to happen,
• 1:26:51
  Evan: it's a pretty brutally downer type of kind of horror ending.
• 1:26:55
  Evan: But I think it's leaving it unknown makes it so it's not as brutal in some way.
• 1:27:00
  jake: Yeah, it feels like the end question mark kind of it feels like a Treehouse
• 1:27:05
  jake: of Horror episode or something like we know this has been a spooky what if tale.
• 1:27:10
  ian: Yeah yeah something like that and i do think horror films
• 1:27:13
  ian: make that mistake sometimes maybe this is i guess this is kind
• 1:27:16
  ian: of a spoiler non-specific spoiler but like the mist if
• 1:27:19
  ian: you guys have seen that movie there are choices where you're sort of like oh
• 1:27:22
  ian: leaning i hate the ending leaning into like don't you see how grim and miserable
• 1:27:28
  ian: it is in a way that feels like i'm being punished as the viewer somehow instead
• 1:27:32
  ian: of this sort of tension this unresolved like the threat is still out there which
• 1:27:37
  ian: i think this this type of film does well.
• 1:27:38
  Evan: Yes yeah sometimes movies uh go like beyond i mean that movie was changed i
• 1:27:45
  Evan: actually just did an episode on that with uh the fog as like a double feature
• 1:27:48
  Evan: and i was saying i think the miss is probably up there as far as there's some
• 1:27:52
  Evan: movie you know maybe newer ones that are pretty brutal but maybe one of the most brutal.
• 1:27:56
  ian: Endings for.
• 1:27:57
  Evan: A film that like you can ever see truly but absolutely.
• 1:28:00
  jake: Same with uh alita.
• 1:28:02
  ian: Battle Angel.
• 1:28:03
  jake: Just seeing the end of that movie and knowing we're almost never getting a sequel.
• 1:28:07
  jake: One of the most painful experiences in my movie-building life.
• 1:28:11
  jake: I love Elite Battle Angel.
• 1:28:13
  Evan: Anyone who hasn't seen Halloween 3, you should. It's Halloween today.
• 1:28:18
  Evan: You could watch it right now.
• 1:28:19
  Evan: That's not too late for you to watch this on.
• 1:28:22
  ian: Exactly. To me, the perfect Halloween movie has spookiness, has fun, and it has...
• 1:28:31
  ian: Sort of strangely stuck in the middle sexuality. And I think this film achieves
• 1:28:36
  ian: all of those parts beautifully.
• 1:28:37
  ian: And I don't know what else you want from a Halloween movie. It's not this.
• 1:28:41
  Evan: I can't imagine having gone to see this when you were in 1982 and walking out
• 1:28:46
  Evan: being like, that sucked.
• 1:28:47
  ian: Yeah, I don't get it.
• 1:28:48
  Evan: Or even today and thinking that it sucked.
• 1:28:51
  jake: I mean, I think it's the persistent tyranny of the nerd. yeah.
• 1:28:55
  ian: I saw some complaints about like plot logic which really felt like wow you just
• 1:28:59
  ian: missed the whole boat on this thing if that's your concern.
• 1:29:02
  jake: Yeah the first halloween is about a a psychiatrist trying to kill his patient
• 1:29:08
  jake: with a handgun and then they like completely.
• 1:29:10
  Evan: Blew it up when they making laurie his like this the the sister it's like.
• 1:29:14
  jake: The sister he also like you know michael myers seems uh to be invincible something
• 1:29:22
  jake: of a plot logic hole that's not a type of thing that can happen what you mean.
• 1:29:26
  Evan: You can't burn someone and they could just like not die shoot.
• 1:29:29
  ian: Them out a window.
• 1:29:30
  jake: Yeah i did like the part in the the reboot uh the 2018 one where michael myers
• 1:29:37
  jake: uh brutally murders two podcasters two true crime podcasters that part that
• 1:29:42
  jake: i can get on board with There is a film,
• 1:29:45
  jake: there's a Dominic Senna film called Season of the Witch with Nicolas Cage and
• 1:29:51
  jake: Ron Perlman that was shot in like Croatia.
• 1:29:56
  jake: I don't really recommend it. I did watch it out of curiosity because,
• 1:30:01
  jake: and also because I, you know, I'd watched this film too many times.
• 1:30:04
  jake: So I threw that on. It's not great, but it is kind of fun to see Nick Cage and
• 1:30:09
  jake: Ron Perlman pretending to be Teutonic Knights. If that's of interest to you.
• 1:30:14
  jake: Also an early, an early career, Claire Foy.
• 1:30:18
  ian: Yes.
• 1:30:18
  jake: The queen herself, man.
• 1:30:20
  Evan: Looking at a bunch of like the one star reviews on letterbox.
• 1:30:23
  Evan: Like I don't, I don't, I don't, I just don't get it. I don't know.
• 1:30:27
  Evan: Are people just like writing edgelord reviews? Like they just have to hate it because people hate it.
• 1:30:31
  ian: I don't know.
• 1:30:33
  jake: I mean, yeah, probably. The piling on, especially of a famously,
• 1:30:40
  jake: quote-unquote, bad movie from a while ago, like Ishtar or Showgirls.
• 1:30:45
  jake: I mean, people are coming around with Showgirls, I think, much more readily.
• 1:30:49
  jake: But yeah, it's fun to you to be like this? I don't understand.
• 1:30:54
  Evan: Go watch Halloween 3, Season of the Witch.
• 1:30:57
  Evan: Just call it Season of the Witch. Tell people to go watch Season of the Witch,
• 1:31:02
  Evan: and they will enjoy the hell out of it. but uh thank you both uh for being here
• 1:31:06
  Evan: ian jake it's been a pleasure talking uh on this hallow halloween oh.
• 1:31:11
  ian: Thanks so much.
• 1:31:12
  jake: For having us it's a true honor yeah not.
• 1:31:14
  ian: To be on a podcast that's not a great honor to me although your podcast is a wonderful podcast.
• 1:31:18
  jake: But to be.
• 1:31:20
  ian: On somebody's halloween special that is like.
• 1:31:22
  jake: Oh my god real event of my life thank you so much movie i hope we did justice to the film yeah.
• 1:31:28
  Evan: There was i've done the original one by myself on an episode ones but i think
• 1:31:32
  Evan: this was like the perfect i think it's the perfect halloween film.
• 1:31:36
  ian: I think so too.
• 1:31:36
  jake: It's one of them it's it's the there's a
• 1:31:39
  jake: very strong argument to be made uh people
• 1:31:43
  jake: should also check out the film the sentinel from 1977 that's
• 1:31:46
  jake: not a great halloween film in my i have not seen that it's uh it's like a an
• 1:31:50
  jake: exorcist exploitation movie they some other studio scooped up another horror
• 1:31:57
  jake: bestseller and tried to make it into the exorcist but it's really spooking and
• 1:32:01
  jake: bridges Meredith throws a birthday party for his cat okay.
• 1:32:04
  Evan: Hmm it looks like it takes place in New York it looks like.
• 1:32:09
  jake: It almost gave me the vibe of like uh.
• 1:32:12
  Evan: Rosemary's baby a little.
• 1:32:14
  jake: Yeah yeah yeah Rosemary's baby and the exorcist there was like a big rush to adapt all the big uh,
• 1:32:20
  jake: best-selling horror novels mostly to middling results but the sentinel is something something.
• 1:32:26
  Evan: Especially made me watch both the exorcist and rosemary baby when i was like
• 1:32:31
  Evan: 11 years old i would say made me they're like oh you should watch these movies
• 1:32:34
  Evan: they're really good thanks,
• 1:32:38
  Evan: especially the exorcist when you're 11 was a little oh yeah yeah that's probably the way parents.
• 1:32:43
  jake: If you don't want your your child to turn out to be a podcaster don't show them
• 1:32:47
  jake: right exorcist and rosemary's baby when they're 11.
• 1:32:49
  Evan: Or eight millimeter when you're 17 yeah yeah exactly all those are all those
• 1:32:55
  Evan: are bad ideas but yeah you guys uh should all all listeners out there should
• 1:32:58
  Evan: check out podcasty for me or what was that pod you said podcastly podcastly
• 1:33:04
  Evan: for me shriek for shriek uh yeah.
• 1:33:08
  jake: Please check us out podcast for me.com and uh we we haven't announced where
• 1:33:12
  jake: we're going after schrader but i can tell you a certain left of the projector
• 1:33:18
  jake: host may be joining us for our well.
• 1:33:21
  Evan: How many uh do you have left of the straight to record we only have like.
• 1:33:25
  ian: Three left uh to come out four or five.
• 1:33:28
  jake: Yeah yeah but then you know we're also we covered clinty's with first so we'll
• 1:33:32
  jake: be coming back for a juror number two episode when that comes out and that Paul
• 1:33:36
  jake: Schrader's got a new film, O Canada, coming out in, I think, December.
• 1:33:41
  jake: So we've got plenty of work cut out for us before we cover our next subject,
• 1:33:47
  jake: Roman Plansky. Oh, sorry, I let it slip.
• 1:33:49
  ian: No, not even as a joke.
• 1:33:54
  jake: What's the Jeepers Creepers guy who was like a straight up actual child predator monster?
• 1:34:02
  jake: Anyway, we're not covering any of those guys. but uh happy halloween.
• 1:34:06
  Evan: Well uh you can also follow this podcast on left of the detector.com and uh
• 1:34:11
  Evan: we'll catch you all next time.