Latest / Mother Makes Music / Episode 6: The Legacy We Leave with ANNIKA

Transcript

Episode 6: The Legacy We Leave with ANNIKA · Mother Makes Music

0:14
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Mother Makes Music Podcast.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: My name is Megan McKay.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, and I'm so glad you're here.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Before I tell you about my guest today, I have to start with a little bit of a disclaimer that this episode was recorded basically a full year ago.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: My conversation today is with Annika.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Annika is an incredible vocalist.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: You'll hear me do a full intro in the episode, and Annika is also my friend.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: She's my first ever interview, and it made sense to me to interview a friend for my first interview ever because I really never interviewed somebody like this.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: So I thought it would be less scary.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: And I also thought that if I sucked at it, she would tell me and just be like, girl, this is not for you.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple things that have changed since we recorded this episode.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: A year is a long time.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Annika is now pregnant again.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: She's actually due very, very soon, which is exciting.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: You'll also hear me talk about a show that she just did, but again, that was a year ago.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: But it's important to talk about and it gets into a specific topic that we wanted to cover.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: So it didn't make sense to cut it out.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I like doing these recap intros after I record an episode because it gives me a chance to sort of process what I listen to and what I'm taking away.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Because I kind of feel like that's the whole idea of this podcast.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: Just listening and learning and growing and building a community.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because I can remember listening to this episode with Annika a year ago and being sort of conflicted about how it went and how I felt about it.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And it made me a little uncomfortable, which I think is always a good thing.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: I think being uncomfortable is good.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: We should all seek out things that make us feel uncomfortable, because I think that is where you grow.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: But listening to Annika made me realize that I maybe wasn't living my life as intentionally as I could have been.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Because if you listen to Annika, you can tell that she really thinks about her life and what's going on in it.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And she's really high standards for herself, her family, her husband.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: And you know, if something isn't going the way she wants it to be, she thinks about why and how she can fix it.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And it just sort of made me think about the fact that I have maybe been a little bit passive in my life.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: And I totally get it.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I think we need young kids.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: There is a season of life where it is really easy to just sort of head down, barrel through it because it is so hard.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: But now, a year later, I can listen to this.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've got two slightly older children, and I feel like I'm not in that really young child blur anymore.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And it was really just a well-timed reminder to pull this episode back up and think about how my life can be whatever I want it to be.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: I have that power and I should harness that power more.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: This episode is really special to me.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: If you are lucky enough to know Annika, you know that she is a very hard-on-her-sleeve open book kind of person.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: And I could not be more grateful for her energy in this episode, her vulnerability, her honesty.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: It truly is so beautiful.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Annika.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Annika.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Annika is my guest today.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: You might have known her when she was one half of Canadian Country Music Award-nominated Country Pop Duo Leaving Thomas, but she now has a solo project inspired by artists such as Elton John, Carol King, and Alicia Keys, which combines her love of country songwriting with heartfelt piano playing and melodic vocals.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: Annika is an accomplished musician, vocalist, and songwriter.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: She's also hilarious.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: She's a daughter, sister, friend, wife, and of course a mother.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you for being here.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put you on the spot.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: Can you do a little introduction to yourself?
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
3:40
SPEAKER_00: How long have you been married?
3:41
SPEAKER_00: How many children do you have?
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: So it's funny because you kind of mentioned a lot of the different roles I am currently filling.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like a woman that wears a lot of hats, as I think all women do.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: So I am a wife to Spencer, who's my husband, my producer, my musical director.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: He wears a lot of hats.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And then I've got three kids, and they are ages three, two, and three months.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I'm also, like you said, a sister to four siblings that live in Calgary and have I have an auntie to nine nieces and nephews.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: And so my life is busy and chaotic, but very full.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Because in addition to all that, I'm also trying to do music when I can.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's busy, but fun.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Even hearing you say those ages, I'm like, you are so in the weeds.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
4:32
SPEAKER_01: Someone just my dad describes it as the heavy lifting years.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's such a great way to remind myself that it's not like this for 18 years when you're like having to do everything from putting your jacket on, tying your shoes, you know, because you're doing everything for three small children right now.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Like they're different things, but you're still having to do a lot of the things.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: So I do like to remind myself that they do get older.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think having nieces and nephews or friends with older kids is so nice because you see, oh, they're like independent people.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
5:05
SPEAKER_01: They become independent sooner than I think you realize.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's brought me comfort sometimes.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Like when I feel like I'm behind on something like potty training's taking forever.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Some would be like, Well, they're not gonna go to college in diapers.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I did that when Levi wasn't rolling over very quickly.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And then I had a friend say to me, Have you ever met an adult that can't roll over?
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, it'll happen.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: It'll be fine.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about it.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think, especially with the first, you're so focused on milestones because you have nothing to kind of lean back on knowing it will get there.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: Like Levi was a lot slower to develop than Eden.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Eden has been, which makes sense as the second, she's seeing Levi do all these things and she just things have happened quicker for her.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Even if my youngest is slower, I know in the back of my mind, it does happen.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: They just are all at different paces.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's something to keep in mind for me for sure.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's start from the beginning of your motherhood journey.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Did you and Spencer make a conscious decision to start trying to have a family?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: We we definitely did.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: We had been married for about, I want to say a year and a bit.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And we said, okay, let's pull the trigger.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: And we kind of expected for it to happen quite quickly.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: My only experience was I had a sister-in-law and a brother who got pregnant like on the first try.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: They were already pregnant with their third.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, this'll be easy.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: And um, it took 18 months for it to happen.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: And I honestly had kind of given up.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: We went and did all the testing, and I actually got a call from the doctor.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget, I was at my brother's house, and he had said, you know, it's gonna be very difficult for you to conceive naturally.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: I was just crying at my brother's house, who like didn't even know any of this was happening.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: I went to my dad and was telling him, like, I don't even want to tell kids.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Like it was a whole, it was a whole thing.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: And uh I started looking at fertility options.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: And then literally a week later, uh, I tested and I was pregnant.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: So actually, at the time that I got the call from the doctor, I was already pregnant.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of funny looking back on it.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: But because of that, it took me so long to believe it.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Spencer makes fun of me because it took like a week, two weeks, three weeks.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I get I tested probably 50 times.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: We did make the decision to say we are ready for this part of our life.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And at the time it was COVID.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, what else was there to do?
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and it ended up being like working out perfectly with timing-wise.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: But I kind of laugh when women in music or any career talk about timing their pregnancies.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's just it's impossible to time it.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: You think that you can time it, and for me, you can't.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna happen when it happens.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So we had our first baby in 2021, and now here we are with three.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: So when you guys started, like at the beginning of the 18 months, were you still, you were still in Leaving Thomas?
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So were you guys still with your former label management?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: So what had happened was we got married in 2018 and we got dropped by our label for that, I think, because we were doing Project Wild.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: So we were technically independent artists, we were doing our own thing, and we won this$50,000.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, we were spending the money that we had gotten, doing our own thing, and um we, I believe, released that album.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And then we were like, okay, it's time to start trying.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Right when uh Leaving Thomas ended.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Leaving Thomas had our farewell concert in January of 2020.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: So it ended up being perfect timing from a musician's perspective because then COVID hit and nothing happened for musicians for however many years.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, COVID hit.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Leaving Thomas ended in 2020, January, and I got pregnant in April of 2020.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And so it was actually kind of a beautiful lull in my artistic journey because I had no idea what I was gonna do.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: So it kind of did have this natural, well, maybe this is the time to start having a family, and then it finally happened in that April.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, I never remember having a conversation with a label head about, okay, I'm trying to get pregnant, which I'm glad I never had to do that.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: When you found out you were pregnant, what did you anticipate your career looking like?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Did you think you were gonna continue music?
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Did you think maybe that was it for you?
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think basically I was very, I had surrendered essentially to kind of whatever happens, happens.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: At this point, I had no duo partner anymore.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any solo projects out or really any idea what I wanted to do.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And I had no team at this point, because I had no label and I had no manager.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I had not, I had nothing except I am married to a producer.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: So I did have the ability to record, which was amazing.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: But I remember saying to Spencer, well, this is perfect timing.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of think music is not necessarily done for me, but it seems like a natural pause has happened.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's when he said, Well, I have all this time on my hands now because no one's, you know, he wasn't out on the road, he wasn't doing much.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Like he said, why don't we just write?
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Why don't we write a bunch of songs and do whatever, whatever happens with it will be.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: We kind of surrendered to it not doing much.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And um in a way that was sad for me.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: However, because leaving Thomas had ended, because Brighton was ready for another chapter, I kind it kind of took the pressure off.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like things were stopping because I was having kids.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: It was like, that's ended.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm having kids.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's see what's on the other side of it.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: It did, it felt very open.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: So we wrote a bunch of songs, and I knew the hard part would not be the recording.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: It would be the releasing.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, this is I I don't want, I don't like that part of it, and I had no team.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: And out of the sky, my mad, my now manager Mel wrote to me because she was looking to do, I no, I wrote to her to ask her to just register things on SoCan and for licensing purposes.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: I said, nothing's probably gonna help him happen with this album, but I have all these songs.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm pregnant, I don't have time to register them all.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: And she, I knew her kind of in a min roll.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And so she did that for me.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: But then she said, Well, what do you want to do with this project?
11:07
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I don't know.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm I remember getting nervous telling her I'm, you know, seven months pregnant or something.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: And she said, That's amazing.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's roll with that.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And so I think because of her, she made everything happen.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And she didn't even there was no hesitation when she found out I was pregnant.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: She was like, Who cares?
11:26
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: So, because of her and Spencer, I think that's why I even have a music career today, is because they're like, Yeah, we can do all this.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Because that was gonna be my next question.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Because I know you have your manager, and I think you have a booking agent now.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Is that something that you've kind of looked for, like partners that are encouraging of your being a mother?
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: So what's really interesting is I mean, other than Spencer, I ended up with an all-female team, basically, but that wasn't even purposeful.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm very much like, whoever, like you said, aligned with my values.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: And a perfect example is I remember telling Brett Kissle that I was pregnant uh, because we needed to shoot a music video or something.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And I made some comment, like, we're gonna have to shoot it from the top up or whatever, because I will be nine months pregnant at that point.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, that's amazing.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: However, I can support you on that journey is awesome.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, okay, so this is a male in the industry that thinks that's cool.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it doesn't have to only be females that can recognize that, you know, having a family is this beautiful thing.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: I do think it's very different to be a male in the industry who has a family, but still it is nice to find someone with family values that gets it.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And so Mel is so supportive.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: She's my manager, and she knows everything revolves around not only pregnancy and birth, but also preschool schedules.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I don't like to work on Sundays because I like to have to be a family day and she's so respectful of that part of my life, which is really great.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Spencer obviously understands it as my producer, and that we are doing things like it's nap time, let's go record this vocal session while the baby is sleeping.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we live or let's go write the song after bedtime so that we can make it work.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And then Carla Hackman is now my agent.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: Many of the people on her roster and who works with her are women who have kids.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I think what it is is just an understanding that my life, I have a lot of buckets that need to be filled, and music is not always gonna come first.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: It's just the reality of it.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think in my 20s, you know, you're always around artists and it's like, this is everything to me.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: 100% of my time, I'm so committed, and I'm just really upfront and honest with everyone I work with, which is my life as a mom definitely comes before music.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: However, weirdly, since becoming a mom, more stuff has happened for me music-wise, because I kind of have taken a more passive approach to music.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's funny how when you stop trying so hard at certain things, people, opportunities happen.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: So I think that aligning with people that understand me, they know my kids, they love my kids, and they know that I will make every effort to make music a priority when it needs to be, but that it's not everything to me.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of artists aren't open about that, or they truly do have music as everything in their life, but that's just not my situation.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want it to be my situation.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: So I've kind of leaned into that instead of trying to make it seem like my whole life is music.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: And so that's been really good to find people that get that and respect that.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for being honest about that, because I feel like not everybody is, and there's this how do you juggle all the balls?
14:42
SPEAKER_00: And I remember seeing a thing that was like, it's not about juggling, it's knowing that some balls are glass and some balls are plastic.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And I I thought about it too, where I'm like, music, I truly believe since I was 21, I was like, I want to write songs that I can sing when I'm 50, and it's not weird.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: So, like, I want to be like a Carol King or like Adele.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Adele is gonna be able to sing her songs when she's 60, and it'll be great.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: And so, because I said there might be a lull where I can't be outperforming or I can't be recording new projects.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, music, I believe, will always be there.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: My kids are not gonna be this age forever.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna need me like this forever.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna want to hang out with me all the time like this forever.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And so I do have Spencer and I, we just went out for dinner for anniversary and we were talking about all these things we want to do, like places we want to travel and records we want to make.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And uh it very much feels like a future thing, or even when our kids are in school.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Like right now, they're literally.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have one child, I'm still breastfeeding, you know, she's attached to me all the time.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's okay to still dream and not be like everything's over.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: But also, you know, even 10 years from now, if I'm making a new album, I'm still gonna be hopefully on like parent, parent counsel and teaching Sunday school.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: And like, there's still things that I want to do while my kids are living in my house and when they're adults.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I want to set myself up for that.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So, kind of on that train of thought, have you found that motherhood has affected your creativity at all?
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Either positive or negative, the way you write songs, the way you perform?
16:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that it has impacted my energy.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: My energy to write a song after the kids go to bed is not there.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have the desire to like book a trip to Nashville and write 30 songs in a week.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: I think that my creative juices are still there.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think it's affected the actual skill, but the desire to and the energy required to be like, I'm gonna get on Zoom at 9 p.m., spend two hours writing a song that may never get recorded, just doesn't feel like worth it to me.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, I have friends that are songwriters, full-time songwriters.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: And that was even hard for me before I had kids to be like, you're gonna put all this energy and time into writing these things that nothing might ever happen.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I feel like music as a career is exhausting enough when it comes to putting time into things that you might not see any reward on.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: And I just feel as a mom, when that eight o'clock bedtime hits, it's like, I don't want to use my brain at all.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: I want to have a bath, I don't want to write, I don't like, because to me, writing is not relaxing.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: It's still work, it's still recording is still taking energy.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: So I would say creatively, it's still there, but I don't have the same desire because I have other things that are taking up time or other things that are more fun to me.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: I distinctly remember a moment when Spencer thought we should record something or write something one night.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, I want to make these tiny little signs for Levi's birthday party.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Like that's literally what I want to spend my time doing.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I want to get really into the weeds on these other things that I didn't used to have.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: So creatively, the answer's kind of like, yes, I guess it has impacted my creativity, but I do think it'll there'll be there'll be seasons of life again where I can put more time into it again.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: And do you feel like that has amplified as you've added children?
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, was it easier with just Levi?
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: And I hate being that mom that's like, oh, with one, one's like not having any kids.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: Because that's not true.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: When you have one, it feels like your whole world has changed, which it has.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: But for me, toddlers compared to, I don't know if you found this too, but like having toddl compared to having babies is harder for me.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: The energy, the, the battles kind of just like it's all everything's a negotiation.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: I find that with the baby, you have like either they're hungry, they're sleepy, or they need their diaper changed.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, for the first year.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: You're like, we can pretty much manage that.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't take so much mental energy.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I just feel like you have so much time in a day, and the more kids you have, the time you just don't have the time in the day.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: And I try to be super involved with every kid, and I have a fear of like my middle child feeling like a middle child.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: So I'm very determined to make sure she doesn't feel that.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's just you're balancing a lot of stuff.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: So I do think it has been impacted with each child for sure.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: So you've kind of alluded to it a couple of times.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Your husband Spencer also works in music, he's a producer, an engineer, a drummer.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: He currently drums for Brett Kissle.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: How do you and Spencer balance opportunities?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's been a conversation in our marriage for a long time, actually, even before we had kids, because it was it not necessarily a scheduling thing, but for me, sometimes struggling with the fact that he gets to just go off and be a rock star for a weekend and then come back.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's like life continues.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: That's not how it is for me.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Not not just because I'm a mom.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I've kind of come to this conclusion.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: It's less about being a mom versus being a dad.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: It's that he's a side musician.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: So he doesn't have to do any of the work about like building a brand, booking the show, organizing the show.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: He literally just gets to show up and play for a a packed theater or whatever and come back.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: And for a while, sometimes that was hard for me because I would think, well, why can't I do that?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is, as the artist, that's never gonna be what it is.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: And I can say to myself, oh, I would have so many more opportunities to perform if I didn't have kids.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: But in reality, I just think my career is not where his is in terms of the opportunities.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: If I'm being completely honest, it's not like I have the same hundred opportunities coming in that he has.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: So mine are much smaller, which is fine.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: It's more me coming to terms with the fact that if I I think if I was a side musician who was playing for someone else, yeah, you get you balance your schedules, you have your village come and take care of kids.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm someone that's been very comfortable with my in-laws watching the kids or my dad or my sisters.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: But it has been hard for me at times to see him kind of getting the best of all the worlds.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: He gets to be the fun dad, he gets to be a rock star, he gets to be the producer.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of had, instead of resenting him for that, I just said, okay, well, is there a way that we can make those opportunities happen for me?
21:30
SPEAKER_01: And so, like this year, I'm doing more performing than I was last year.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, if an opportunity came up from a scheduling point of view where we both have something on the same weekend, it's like, yeah, we have to then spend the time or the money getting childcare and making it happen.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: So he's super supportive of that, but he just doesn't have the mental energy that's required because he just gets a schedule.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: Here you are, this is what's happening.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Whereas for me, it's a lot about what opportunities.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I want to put myself forward for?
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Does this involve travel?
22:03
SPEAKER_01: If I am going away, I'm responsible for setting up the kids with whoever's watching them and providing me.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Like there's just so much more that goes into it.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: So I have to be more selective about my opportunities, which is honestly okay.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I feel like even before I had kids, I was getting to that point.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: But he has shown me that he's not a full-time musician, right?
22:23
SPEAKER_01: He, like you said, he's a producer, he's a mixer, he does all these different things.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how I view the performing aspect of my career, is that it's just one part of it.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm not doing it as much as he is, you know, I've kind of just accepted that.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, take so much more energy to like do a show in Vancouver or something.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm just in a different phase of life.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, I think it's really good that Spencer's a musician because he completely understands it.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: So I think in that way we found a good balance.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: He does have pretty long stretches where he's on tour, festival season's coming up.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: So you do a fair bit of solo parenting.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: How do you make that work?
23:00
SPEAKER_00: How do you manage that?
23:02
SPEAKER_01: So I feel kind of bad saying this, and I'm curious if you found it too.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes it's easier when he's not home.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Honestly.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And this is, I don't know how to describe it to someone, but it's like, it's not because he's not great.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Like he is.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And he's very helpful.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: My husband is like the main cook.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: He does so, he drives him, he's very involved.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: But it's like when he's gone, it's like I know my mission.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to think about someone else, some other adult and what they need or what their plans are, or oh, I had assumed you were gonna be here, but it's like, no, I am on mom duty.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm very much when he's away, even if it's for like a four-day weekend, I purposely schedule my life as in I am basically being a stay-at-home mom.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's fun for me because it's like, I just know what I need to do.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to describe it.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: But he was away for the first time when my youngest was like five weeks old, six weeks old.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, two toddlers, a baby, how are we gonna do this?
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Like it was fine.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, maybe also with your third, you kind of know what you're doing, you're like comfortable with it.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: But I think maybe it feels easier because I plan ahead.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I'll be like, okay, we're gonna go to my sister's for dinner, and then we're gonna go to the zoo, and we just we make it work.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: And I find it actually is more work if I go away and have to like write a bunch of things down or pump bottle feet, like all that stuff is actually more work than me just staying home.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: So that's been okay.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's actually a great lead in to my next question.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: How would you describe your mental load?
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the mental load.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is it's kind of cool that that that has got been given a name, right?
24:39
SPEAKER_01: In the last, I feel like five years.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I feel like people didn't know how to talk about it before.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: My mental load, I think is not overwhelming for me.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: I have found that in the last three years, Spencer and I have figured out who kind of takes what in terms of we have a good separation of duties.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: And I, again, I'm very lucky that one of the main things I've heard people talk about, especially women, is the grocery shopping and the making of the meals and like the mental load of thinking, what am I gonna make for these kids for dinner?
25:15
SPEAKER_01: So I have said to Spencer, I think I realized that's a massive part of a lot of women's mental load that I don't have because he takes it on.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: But it was only hearing other women talk about it that I stopped to think, I've never even thought about groceries.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: I literally never thought about meal planning.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: And I've never thanked him for taking on that mental load until I heard someone else describe it.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking there's all these things that we're both doing that we don't know each other are doing.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: So one night we literally sat down saying, What are the things that you're thinking about?
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Because he was talking about like what I can't even tell you what day trash day is.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: I've never taken the trash out.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: I never know when we have to have that out.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: For example, just like he doesn't, one of the things that my mental load that I hate, that I always want to be like, is the clothes, the clothes and changing the sizing out, especially for infants when you're like stereo to three, three to six.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, these are the wrong seasons.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: So I've got to put like that is something that he has no idea about.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I say to him, not in a mean way, but I'll just say, like, so one thing I have to do today is I have to go through the clothes and I will literally lay out the tasks that I have to do just so he realizes that that doesn't just happen.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And we've we've tried to get better at thanking each other for things that you assume they're going to do because it does take up mental energy.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm always trying to be in this balance of being grateful that I have these responsibilities because I wanted children.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: These are blessings in my life, but with all these blessings come these responsibilities.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to get caught in kind of like a you can get, I've been able to get into the negative cycle sometimes, like I'm doing this, this, this, and that.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And I try to stay very positive about things.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: But one of the ways I've I said to Spencer one time, he came home from work or whatever, and he said to me, thanks for watching the kids all day.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: And I said to him, like three days later, said, I just want you to know that you saying that, like, I you have no idea how much that means to be just acknowledged.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: I think so much of the mental load, what's difficult is, especially as women, you're doing all these things and you feel like no one is seeing that all this stuff is happening.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: And to be fair, it's not like every time he comes home from work, I'm like, thank you so much for working and making money to provide for us.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do not say that.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: But me telling him, gosh, that made such a difference to be acknowledged.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: It's not just assume that I'll watch the kids because I'm home or like, I mean, or because I'm the woman and you're at work, it feels good to be acknowledged.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I just think my secret with the mental load is when I think, oh, I'm doing this, this, this, and that, I try to think, what is on his mental load?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And how can we just preemptively acknowledge the different things we're doing?
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And in different seasons, sometimes I'm giving 70, he's giving 30 when it comes to childcare, or it's never, I think it's Brene Brown that says it's never 50-50.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Everyone talks about that, but it's always, oh, I see they're only at 30 today.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: I have to bring the rest, or vice versa.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting because you guys are kind of similar to us in that everybody is contributing financially.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: You are self-employed, like you do your own thing, but you are still contributing financially.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: You're not a stay-at-home mom.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: But you are home.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think it can make things a little bit gray as to who's doing what.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, I uh I'm in April, I was very busy in April with music stuff, but also like I've had another job my entire music career, and I still have this other job.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: And one thing, one thing that's hard is when you don't work out at the home, getting that division of like, I am at work now.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: I I am because I try to do that with Spencer, right?
29:00
SPEAKER_01: When he's in the studio, it's like we do not go in daddy's studio, we don't interrupt.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: He's working.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, we've had to have conversations.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: He's had to say to me, like, you can't just come down when I'm in the middle of something.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: And I've been like, You're right, I know that you're at home, but you're you're not at home.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: And my work is much more fluid.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not as like, oh, I have a six-hour session, don't bother me.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: So I would say, since we've had our first child, that is the biggest point of not contention, but just negotiation.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, I need time to work.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Now you need time to work, while also being like, I don't want our kids to feel like a distraction from work.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: The kids are the work.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: I want them to be our main priority.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: But it's hard because similar to you guys, it's not this very defined.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes I think it's easier for people that have, you know, okay, guy goes off to work nine to five, the weekends are family time, evenings are date night or whatever, you have this schedule.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I think it's harder with the flexibility.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: You also have this blurring of lines of, and you're right, when you're it comes to the end of the month, you're like, well, we both contributed financially.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: That means we also need to both contribute to the child's care.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Without also, like, one of my problems is I sometimes try to micromanage, like, that's not the way you do that.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Or like, no, they don't like it when you, you know, because you, but then it's like, well, if you want me to contribute, I have to also have my own ownership over this.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: So that was something that I I remember with our first baby that it had to be like, I need to also, if I want to step back and let you do stuff, because I want you to contribute to this, I need to also let you do that instead of treating you as another child and telling you how to do all these different things.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Growing pains.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's why people say that the third baby feels easier to me, partly because the both of you just know what you're doing now in a way that you don't have to have all these conversations about, well, how do we do this?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: How does this work?
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Because you're you're in your rhythm.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: You know how it works.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: So they say that the third is the gateway to five because you just kind of feel like you're settled.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: You're like, oh, this is so easy.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Let's just keep adding to the mix.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't know about that, but yeah.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Cause to me, the thing about the third was I like that we can each take a kid.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what I would do if I didn't have that dynamic anymore.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: I will say what we found is that I think of them as the big kids.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, the bigs are together, and then like even in my house growing up, we had the big girls and the little girls, and then Luther, my brother, was in the middle.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: And so we were always divided into two.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: I felt like either girls are going with mom, Luther's with dad, or the big kids are with, I don't know.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: So even now I'll say you take the big kids because they're only 18 months apart.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: They feel like twins to me because they're into the same things.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: They can do the same things.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's part of why I wanted them close together, is because it really is easy.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: You don't have like a nine-year-old and a four-year-old who aren't interested in the same things.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: But it it very much what you do find with three is the same jump from one to two.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Nobody gets a break anymore.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Like there's none of this, like, oh, I'll have the baby, you take a break.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like we're we're always on.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like your house has a default parent?
32:05
SPEAKER_01: No, not in the same way that I've seen, like on a lot of the social media stuff.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, I saw something about someone going to a bowling alley and the dad didn't know the shoe sizes of any of his kids.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, no, that's not, or like what their kids like to eat, or what days they have school or what they have to wear to school.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm very fortunate that because he's kind of like a stay-at-home dad-esque, I don't feel like there's this default.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: I also, though, would say I have very high expectations.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I've always had high expectations of my husband as a father because my dad was practically a stay-at-home dad in the 90s, which was not normal.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: My dad was always around.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: My dad did bedtime with us.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: My mom did the mornings.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: We always had lunch together.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Even like when I would go to school, we'd all come home.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: My dad would have lunch with us.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: My mom would make dinner.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: And then after dinner, my mom was off the clock.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: My dad, I don't remember ever my mom giving me a bath or putting me to bed.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: That was always my dad's thing.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: And so when we were having children, I was like, okay, well, let me tell you what I grew up with, because this is what I'm expecting from my husband.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: He he was all about it, which is very easy to say hypothetically.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: But no, we he does really love it, which makes it good.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: And he does, he does the lunch packing or he he does what he needs to do.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, I don't think we have there's not this assumption that, like, oh, well, he'll be working and I will be at home with the kids.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's been good.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: But I don't, I know a couple that don't use a shared calendar.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: I was like, we wouldn't survive without a shared calendar.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you guys do it?
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Do you have like, okay, at the beginning of the like, we always talk on Sunday, like, what does this week look like?
33:45
SPEAKER_01: And I will say, I always fit my work into the nooks and crannies.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: He gets kind of the because he has to actually book with other people and stuff.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: So I do, I would say he gets kind of first dibs on work time because I can be more flexible.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: But we always talk at the beginning of the week.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: What does the week look like?
34:02
SPEAKER_01: When are you taking the kids?
34:03
SPEAKER_01: When am I, blah, blah, blah, blah?
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how he would do it if we didn't have that conversation every week.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you, your motherhood journey has had honestly more than your fair share of grief.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Starting with your wonderful mother Deborah passed away before the birth of your child.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: What has that been like for you parenting through grief?
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's it's it's um, no, it still is.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a day-to-day thing.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially as Mother's Day is coming up.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I was telling someone, you know, Mother's Day will always be a very bittersweet day for me because I'm so reminded that my mother's not here.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: And yet I'm, I see her in all my kids.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: I see her in my nieces and nephews.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think so, I always get, I've told Spencer this.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: I said, when I have my first baby, I think postpartum is gonna be hard because that is the time where people just so naturally need their moms.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Like it's crazy how you're like, I completely understand why a mom goes to her daughter's house for a week and lives there and takes care of the baby, because there are certain things where it just feels like only a mom can take care of you.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: But what that's done for me is it's made me realize with her being gone, how important my role is to my kids because I see the void in my life without her.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, there are so many questions I wish I could have asked her.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I wasn't even pregnant before she died.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to know, was my mom a sleep trainer?
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Was she that kind of person?
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Was she someone that co-slept with her kids?
35:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, did she have them on a schedule because she had five of them and had to keep them in line?
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have recollections of my mom being stressed.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm always like, how did she, how was she so chill?
35:48
SPEAKER_01: All these things I wish I could ask her, but I do one of the things I that helps me truly is I am when I'm getting stressed or I'm just like at my wit's end, I will honestly say to myself, would Deborah Odegaard care about this?
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, would she care that Levi is wearing pajamas to the grocery store?
36:07
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, sometimes I'm like, you know what, my mom wouldn't make you change.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: She would, or like for church, for example, my mom always made us dress up.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not gonna let Levi wear pajamas to church because I'll think to myself, my mom was such like to me, the perfect balance of keeping her kids in order, keeping them well behaved.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, we were polite kids, we were well behaved, but also so much fun in our life.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I, my mom was not a stressed-out mom.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't want to be a stressed out mom.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I'll I will think to myself, would my mom care about this or would she just let it go?
36:42
SPEAKER_01: And so even though she's not physically here, I do find myself being influenced by her and the impact she had on me.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I really missed her when I when I had my miscarriage in between my second and third babies.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: My mom had three miscarriages.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: And that's just something that I wish like I never talked to her about her miscarriages before she died.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: I had not like, you just don't know until you're going through it.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: But I know that she obviously her response to her miscarriage was to just try again right away.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, because she still had five kids in six years, but she was pregnant eight times.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: So again, even though she wasn't here, I was like, okay, what would Deborah Odegaard do in this situation?
37:22
SPEAKER_01: So it's that bittersweet.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I have like these moments with my kids where I'm like, this is just the best.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Like last night they were playing me in the backyard, giggling, laughing.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: I was looking at them through the kitchen window as I was like cleaning dishes.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: It's just like everything was perfect.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And yet there's always this like sting in my heart of like, my mom is not here to see this.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: However, I mean, I truly believe my mom is with us and she's around us and she lives among us spiritually.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I do think that I mean, she would be thrilled.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think all these grandchildren that my dad has, even though my mom is gone, that is where he's finding his joy, and that the void has been somewhat filled by these energetic, loving children.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but but it is when you parent through grief, I just feel like they give you so much joy, but you're also you just have to carry on because of them.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think I ever told you this.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: I went to your mom's funeral, and it was the first funeral I've ever gone to as an adult.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't a family member.
38:32
unknown: Okay.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even know.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: I had to call my dad, and I was like, I don't even know what the like, do you receive invites to a funeral?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: What is the etiquette?
38:39
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, no, no, you just go.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you want to support the people, you go.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: So we went.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: And I had met your mother casually at a couple of your wedding events, your shower, whatever, but I didn't really like know her.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: And just seeing the celebration and how many people had nothing but wonderful things to say about her.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I want to live my life like this.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so amazing.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Like a person could only hope that that would be their funeral.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Like a true celebration of her life.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: It was incredible.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: So wonderful to hear.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: And I say to people seven years later, like, I just love when people talk about her and remember her.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: And I even it's funny that we're talking about career and music and motherhood, and I'll say to Spencer, like, my mom was never famous.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: My mom wasn't on stages, she wasn't, and she had, I mean, you can see at her funeral and the impact she had on so many people beyond her kids.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's the legacy I want to leave behind.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't need, I don't need to be in the Canada Music Hall of Fame.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: I want my kids to think of me the way I think of my mother, or or people in the community thought of my mother.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: And so when people talk about their heroes, and I never think of other artists.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: I literally think of my mother.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: And if I can be half the mother she was, I feel I will fulfill my calling on earth.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: So that means so much to hear that that was felt in the room that day.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: You just did this big show in Calgary.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: And one of the components of your show in Calgary was that it was not a fundraiser, but you were for the Calgary Health Foundation's pregnancy and infant loss center, uh, we raised uh 10% of the proceeds went to that cause, which was so important to me.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if if you've experienced or have had friends that have experienced miscarriage, but I did not know that they have a whole program that does such a beautiful job of honoring babies that have died before full term.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And I remember when I miscarried and I went to the hospital.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was going to be quite clinical.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I was kind of preparing myself for them to talk about it very clinically and just very, you know, you know how sometimes hospitals can feel and doctors can be.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just very like, and it was the opposite.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: They were so caring and it was so clear how much they valued my son's whip, my son Will.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: We we got to name him, I got to hold him.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they had a service for all the babies of that quarter that didn't survive.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: And they have a tombstone and a garden for like I just couldn't believe the lengths that this organization goes to to honor those mothers and to honor those babies.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: So I was super passionate about wanting to do something for that organization because I find that miscarriage is obvious like something that people don't naturally talk about a lot because you don't quite know how to approach it.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I finally I felt like because I had been through it and experienced this, you know, one thing that I could do was try to support that initiative because it was just so uh helpful to me during that time.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: I've I have not ever had a miscarriage.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: And I know there's different, you know, type, but listening to you talk about your experience, it doesn't even seem like the right word.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever feel like that?
42:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I even think like when we announced our baby that we just had Eliza, I was like, well, it's not technically our third baby.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Like this is our fourth baby.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's this weird.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: I am thankful that I mean, it was horrible in the moment, but I I lost Will the same day as Spencer's birthday.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: And so the good thing about that is that every February 16th, when we're celebrating, we also light a candle for Will and just get to honor his life.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, especially when I was in the, I was holding a baby, you know, I got to, this is something that you don't see when they're inside of you.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: But for him to be there, it's like, this was a true loss.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: This was my child.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: I this baby grew inside of me.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I loved him.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: He was waiting to be joyfully welcomed by this entire community.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: And I believe I will see him again.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: So it is um, it's something that happened, it hadn't happened in my family before, and my whole family was devastated.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just it's something that I'm glad that there are programs out there that don't just gloss over.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, well, try again.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's like, no, no, no, this was a life that was that, and he is part of our family.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: But then you also want to like, I was distinctly remember because my sister was due, like, had the same due date as me.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how am I gonna deal with this when my sister has a baby and I like my baby's not here?
43:49
SPEAKER_01: And I remember talking with Spencer about how it's not that my baby didn't make it to their due date, and that, you know, when my nephew is graduating high school, I'm gonna say, Will should have been here.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Graduating high school and all these things that he didn't do.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Instead, I looked at it as nope, my baby lived his life.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: He just arrived on February 16th and he left on February 16th.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that that was his life and it was meaningful and valuable.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: It was just shorter than I wished it was.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: But um it's it's certainly a trip.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: And when and you have it was an interesting thing because I already had kids.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: So you're trying to be like grateful for the kids that you have.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: And then also I was scared to try again because I thought, I don't know if I can go through this emotionally.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: But of course, now I'm so glad I did.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: Even as we think about having other kids, I'm I have a, I definitely still have a fear of going through that again.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, because it is it is a a tough journey.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: And I it's interesting because I had announced that pregnancy four days before I lost the baby, because there was nothing wrong.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I had no reason to not announce at 15 weeks.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: And at first I was embarrassed, like, why did I announce this?
44:54
SPEAKER_01: And then I was actually so glad because I felt that his if I hadn't, who would I tell?
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Would anyone know?
45:01
SPEAKER_01: I was actually glad that I could grieve with my friends because they to it felt good to be acknowledged or him to be acknowledged.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that was a tough one though, for sure.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: I have just a couple like quick rapid fire questions for you.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: So if we're gonna have a little manifestation moment, where do you see yourself and your family in five years?
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Five years, I I do see more kids, which is kind of crazy when you think about it.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: But I I do see more kids.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: I see a very busy life, I see swimming lessons and PTA and Sunday school and vacations that are like crazy and not relaxing, but filled with memories and getting lost in train stations and trying to wrangle these like five children to like get their backpacks on and like I see a crazy beautiful life.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: In five years, I believe I will be done having kids, though.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: I think the pregnancy stage will be over for me.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: The baby stage will be over for me.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in five years, Levi will be like eight years old.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: And I see music being part of it.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: I do, but I think I don't even know what music looks like for me.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: I think there'll be more records that have been released.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Maybe a children's record, maybe um a blues record.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: Like I have all these ideas, and I think everything will be busy but beautiful.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Love that, busy but beautiful.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: What is one domestic task you would outsource indefinitely if you could?
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Laundry, but specifically the putting away.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't mind folding it.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't mind putting it in.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: It's the mental energy to put it away when I also don't have enough room for everything.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: Like for me, that's the hardest part.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: There's in my own closet, something's always got to be in the wash that I have enough hangers.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: So that, like, I mean, the the answer is I just need less clothes.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: But but I think putting putting away laundry would love someone to do that for me.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: What's one thing you wish you knew before you became a mother?
46:58
SPEAKER_01: I wish I knew that it's not my identity that's being lost.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: It's my autonomy that's being taken away temporarily.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm the I think the reason why the second and third babies are easier in a way is because you know that they will not be attached for you to you forever.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: You won't be, oh, I can only do this one activity because I've got to be back to feed in time.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like I wish I knew that that lack of autonomy is temporary and you will miss it sometimes, but not right now.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: In the distant future, you will miss it.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Who would be your dream collaborator?
47:37
SPEAKER_01: John Mayer or Patrick Droney or Gavin de Gras has been one of my favorites forever.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, basically just any like a songwriter that I just feel we would vocally be able to do some some cool stuff.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I used to say Stevie Wonder to that question, but I'd be too intimidated.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I would be like, I can't even be in your presence.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I feel like Patrick Drone's still not famous enough that he's like, who is this girl?
48:02
SPEAKER_01: So I would, if I was realistically allowed to collaborate with someone, it'd be Patrick Drone, because I think we could do something cool.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: Um last question.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: What's one piece of advice you would give to an artist who wants to become a mother?
48:15
SPEAKER_01: I would say put motherhood first.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: It's something that you have, you have no control, not no control, but you have little control over music.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: And motherhood is something where I truly believe everything you invest into it, you will reap the rewards.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: You I cannot say the same about music.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you are thinking about being a mother, I would follow that intuition and I truly believe it will bring you more fulfillment than music ever can, even as successful as you may be.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: That's my voice.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Also, what's hilarious is I'm at 1%, which is hilarious.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: This is perfect, meant to be.