Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SHOCK VIDEO: HEALTH BOSS GUNNED DOWN IN TARGETED ATTACK, SHOOTER’S FACE CAPTURED

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SHOCK VIDEO: HEALTH BOSS GUNNED DOWN IN TARGETED ATTACK, SHOOTER’S FACE CAPTURED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shocking video emerging of a
0:09
Speaker 1: health boss gunned down in a targeted attack at this hour,
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Speaker 1: our marriage secrets revealed. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
0:20
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.
0:22
Speaker 2: Masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in Midtown
0:27
Speaker 2: Manhattan and urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last scene
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Speaker 2: entering Central.
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Speaker 1: Park, marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth
0:40
Speaker 1: millions of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.
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Speaker 1: What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and
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Speaker 1: odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually have been inscribed
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Speaker 1: with letters on them. A cell phone had been left behind.
1:01
Speaker 1: Is there DNA on a water bottle? Was this a pro?
1:06
Speaker 1: A silencer was used? And in the middle of the
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Speaker 1: assassination the gun jams and seemingly the pro shooter simply
1:17
Speaker 1: adjusted and continued firing. Everyone. Thank you for being with us.
1:24
Speaker 1: If this can happen in public, what are we to
1:27
Speaker 1: think of it? Well, take a listen to it, the
1:30
Speaker 1: chief of detectives has to say.
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Speaker 3: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from
1:34
Speaker 3: Midtown North Preestint responded to a nine to one one
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Speaker 3: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton
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Speaker 3: Hotel located at thirteen thirty five Avenue of the Americas.
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Speaker 3: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty
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Speaker 3: fourth Street. At six forty eight am. Officers arrive and
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Speaker 3: find the victim, Brian R. Thompson, a fifty year old male,
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Speaker 3: on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton, with gunshot
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Speaker 3: wounds to his back and leg.
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Speaker 1: You know, the way the sheoter handled the weapon, the
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Speaker 1: use of a silence, the mask, the lying in wait
2:02
Speaker 1: all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want
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Speaker 1: to be caught. A pro would do everything not to
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Speaker 1: get caught. So then why we're there, especially engraved bullets
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Speaker 1: with cryptic messages on them. Mm mmm, it sounds like
2:22
Speaker 1: a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller. Something's way
2:27
Speaker 1: off with this. Joining me and all star panel to
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Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now, but for
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Speaker 1: as straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Colin joining us
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Speaker 1: co host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can find
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Speaker 1: her at Popcrime dot tv, who has gone to the
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Speaker 1: scene and investigated. Lauren, what can you tell us?
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Speaker 4: Yes, Nancy on the street the entire street of West
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Speaker 4: fifty third Street was blocked off.
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Speaker 5: There was a plane, clothes.
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Speaker 4: Detectives as well as uniformed officers basically not saying anything.
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Speaker 4: I asked questions, asked witnesses if they heard anything, and
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Speaker 4: the parking lot attendants were actually there earlier that morning,
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Speaker 4: but they said, you know, due to the silencer, they
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Speaker 4: didn't hear anything.
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Speaker 1: Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,
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Speaker 1: Starting at the beginning.
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Speaker 4: Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived
3:18
Speaker 4: in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at
3:22
Speaker 4: the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.
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Speaker 4: He was set to speak at eight am at their
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Speaker 4: annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six
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Speaker 4: forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of
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Speaker 4: the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman
3:44
Speaker 4: was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kenny.
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Speaker 3: Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where
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Speaker 3: he was pronounced dead at seven twelve am. Mister Thompson
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Speaker 3: is the CEO of United Healthcare and in Minnesota. Detectives
4:02
Speaker 3: from night Watch, Midtown North Detective Squad, and Manhattan South
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Speaker 3: Homicard responded to the scene and began their investigation.
4:07
Speaker 1: We're learning a lot. I want to go straight out
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Speaker 1: to Bill Daily joining us from New York, former FBI
4:13
Speaker 1: investigator forensic photography international security expert. Bill, thank you for
4:19
Speaker 1: being with us. You see the video steals we're showing.
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Speaker 1: I don't know that a pro would have done this
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Speaker 1: right in front of a surveillance video.
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Speaker 6: Well, exactly right, Nancy.
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Speaker 7: Is that you know people throw on this thing about
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Speaker 7: you know, professional hitman. I mean those are those are
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Speaker 7: out of the movies. I mean this could be somebody
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Speaker 7: who trained who thought it out. Well, obviously he's done
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Speaker 7: a lot of reconnaissance and research, but we're talking about
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Speaker 7: professional hit people. That's something made in the movies. I
4:45
Speaker 7: would say, Nancy, a couple of things. I'm quite familiar
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Speaker 7: with this area of being a New Yorker and having
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Speaker 7: worked on the streets of New York for quite a
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Speaker 7: number of years. Is that this is actually the side entrance.
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Speaker 7: Missus Thompson was apparently staying around the corner. We believe
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Speaker 7: that the Marriott Hotel, which actually gave him a couple
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Speaker 7: of avenues of approach to the hotel. This is the
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Speaker 7: side interest the Maniager's on sixth Avenue. So for this
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Speaker 7: gunman to know that he was going to be coming
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Speaker 7: down the side street at this time suggested to me
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Speaker 7: there was some other reconnaissance inside information that he knew
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Speaker 7: that he was at another hotel. He wasn't saying at
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Speaker 7: the Hilton that he could be coming down this street.
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Speaker 7: Tompson could have easy walked around seventh Avenue, come down
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Speaker 7: fifty fifth Street or another street to wear have a
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Speaker 7: couple of coffee.
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Speaker 6: But he didn't. And so there are a couple of.
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Speaker 7: Things out here that kind of jump out to me
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Speaker 7: that are really concerning with your guard to how much
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Speaker 7: information was known about the specific movements of mister Thompson
5:35
Speaker 7: that morning.
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Speaker 1: Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location.
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Speaker 1: But wouldn't it have been easy for the perp, the
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Speaker 1: killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,
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Speaker 1: Brian Thompson to walk out. He didn't have to be
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Speaker 1: lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have
5:54
Speaker 1: simply followed him. He did come up behind him.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, there are a couple of things here
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Speaker 7: in Nancy that is true. And in fact, if he
6:00
Speaker 7: knew if he was going to be speaking of the conference,
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Speaker 7: he didn't have to be waiting outside. He could have
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Speaker 7: done it just in the lobby upstairs, in an elevator,
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Speaker 7: or some other other place where he knew there was
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Speaker 7: kind of a kind of cool chow point where he
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Speaker 7: would have had to travel through in order to get
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Speaker 7: to the conference. The other thing is that which kind
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Speaker 7: of points to perhaps something more someone from the area
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Speaker 7: or from the region, is the fact that mister Simpson
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Speaker 7: lives out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes
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Speaker 7: to and from work, he comes to and from his home,
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Speaker 7: he goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting.
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Speaker 6: Events, who knows what.
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Speaker 7: But those are kind of open areas other areas where
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Speaker 7: he could have been a target. But yet this was
6:33
Speaker 7: done in New York City, where he doesn't live, where
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Speaker 7: he was visiting, where this person would have only had
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Speaker 7: a couple of days opportunity for any kind of reconnaissance
6:40
Speaker 7: and kind of staging this event. And so it kind
6:43
Speaker 7: of leads me to suggest that this person chose New
6:45
Speaker 7: York either because it's more difficult. You can get lost
6:48
Speaker 7: in the city. You can do things like this. It
6:49
Speaker 7: could disappear into Central Park and perhaps try to hide
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Speaker 7: your trails, you know. Or it was a matter of
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Speaker 7: convenience that the person was in and around the area
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Speaker 7: and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.
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Speaker 1: You're right. The victim in town to speak at an
7:02
Speaker 1: investor conference.
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Speaker 8: Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak
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Speaker 8: at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying
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Speaker 8: in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was
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Speaker 8: walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind
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Speaker 8: and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once
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Speaker 8: in the back and at least once in the right calf.
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Speaker 8: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait
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Speaker 8: for his intended target.
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Speaker 1: Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daily. There is no robbery,
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Speaker 1: there is no carjacking, there is no sex attack, So
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Speaker 1: it's targeted. Can we look at the photo of the
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Speaker 1: suspect's face. Now we keep hearing we don't know much
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Speaker 1: about him, but I can tell you right now he's white.
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Speaker 1: Number one. He knows enough to cover his face but
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Speaker 1: I say that he is not wearing gloves. To Lauren Conlin,
8:01
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about a discarded water bottle?
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Speaker 4: The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the Alleyway,
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Speaker 4: which is between fifty third and fifty fourth Street.
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Speaker 5: It's the big Field Ballroom Alleyway.
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Speaker 1: A pro would not leave behind a water bottle. A
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Speaker 1: pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you've murdered somebody.
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Speaker 6: Exactly.
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Speaker 7: You're right, Nancy, And go to my suggestion, this person
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Speaker 7: orchestrated this, pre planned it.
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Speaker 6: I thought it out. You speak about perhaps the weapon
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Speaker 6: a little bit later on, all.
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Speaker 7: These things tying to somebody who is knowledgeable about only
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Speaker 7: what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.
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Speaker 6: That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed in the movies.
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Speaker 7: These people would be much more sub roser about their efforts,
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Speaker 7: would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going
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Speaker 7: to suggest to you is that besides this video and
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Speaker 7: these images we have now, as that police are looking
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Speaker 7: to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail,
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Speaker 7: there'll be some more coming out and we'll have we'll
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Speaker 7: have some more facial images.
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Speaker 6: Perhaps the DNA may help.
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Speaker 7: As we all know working these cases is you need
9:02
Speaker 7: to have something to compare it to. You need to
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Speaker 7: have some databasing compared to or using ancestral DNA, perhaps
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Speaker 7: tie this person back to someone.
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Speaker 6: Else and work through that angle.
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Speaker 7: So even though we have all these things, and it
9:15
Speaker 7: could be who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on the bullet
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Speaker 7: casings or other evidence left behind, but again you need
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Speaker 7: something to compare it to.
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Speaker 3: What we know is that the shooter arrived at the
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Speaker 3: location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.
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Speaker 3: He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people
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Speaker 3: and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see at
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Speaker 3: six forty four am, the victim is walking alone towards
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Speaker 3: the Hilton after exiting his hotel across the street. We
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Speaker 3: believe the victim was headed to the Hilton hotel to
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Speaker 3: attend the United Health Group investors conference that was scheduled
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Speaker 3: to start at eight am.
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Speaker 1: Let me look at that stance one more time where
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Speaker 1: the shooter is pointing, pointing the gun at the victim.
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Speaker 1: You know, everybody on the path, I don't jump in,
10:01
Speaker 1: but Bill Danley, look at that. It looks like someone
10:04
Speaker 1: has been watching too many movies and they think that's
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Speaker 1: a professional killer stance. You see that right there. I'm
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Speaker 1: just telling you. Look, he doesn't have on gloves. He's
10:16
Speaker 1: been hanging out, drinking from a water bottle that he
10:19
Speaker 1: leaves behind. I also understand a cell phone has been
10:24
Speaker 1: left behind. And then he gets on a city bike.
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Speaker 1: It reminds me of a bank robbery I prosecuted where
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Speaker 1: the purp had a bike waiting around the corner. He
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Speaker 1: was anything but a pro and he pedaled off just
10:40
Speaker 1: like this guy is doing. What do you make of that?
10:43
Speaker 6: Bill?
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Speaker 7: You know, all these things going to add up to
10:45
Speaker 7: the fact that this person again gave some thought.
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Speaker 6: But yet it's about quote professional.
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Speaker 7: I mean, we really don't have these kind of quote
10:52
Speaker 7: professional hitment throughout the country.
10:53
Speaker 6: Maybe the mafia does.
10:54
Speaker 7: But we're not talking about people knocking off executive So
10:58
Speaker 7: this doesn't happen in the United States. Perhaps over and
11:00
Speaker 7: have a concern when people travel the high risk locations,
11:02
Speaker 7: but certainly not in New York City. But I'll probably
11:05
Speaker 7: tell you is that both that stance is kind of
11:08
Speaker 7: a suggestion that the person thoth they knew what they
11:11
Speaker 7: were doing, but also the fact that this gun jam.
11:13
Speaker 7: The jam several times apparently rights at each shot. According
11:17
Speaker 7: to police, they believe that it jammed maybe because there
11:20
Speaker 7: was a silencer on the front, a silence or that
11:22
Speaker 7: perhaps caused the jam to occur. But he did clear
11:25
Speaker 7: it very quickly and efficiently. So he's somebody who did
11:28
Speaker 7: do some practice training with that weapon beforehand.
11:30
Speaker 1: Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.
11:35
Speaker 4: Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't
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Speaker 4: stop him, so he kept shooting after he saw.
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Speaker 1: The answer is yes, Okay, that's telling me a lot
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Speaker 1: right there, Daily Daily, Daily, A pro is going to
11:48
Speaker 1: take a gun that jams between every shot? Really?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, I'm going.
11:53
Speaker 7: To some of the forensic guess versus that by using
11:56
Speaker 7: that silence, and again, silencers are nothings that you are
11:58
Speaker 7: supposed to legally have.
12:00
Speaker 6: If it was homemade, it could have caused more of
12:02
Speaker 6: this kind of.
12:02
Speaker 7: Malfunction of the weapon. But again it did seem as
12:06
Speaker 7: though calmly he cleared that weapon.
12:08
Speaker 6: He was able to pull a slide on the top.
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Speaker 1: Daily did you say homemade? Look, this is whoo, this
12:17
Speaker 1: is melan, This is not pro. I don't even know
12:20
Speaker 1: where that came from? A homemade silence, homemade slen but
12:30
Speaker 1: come on, man, a homemade silencer that doesn't work, A
12:34
Speaker 1: pretend professional killer stance, drinking a water bottle and leaving
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Speaker 1: it behind and hopping on a bike without gloves and
12:41
Speaker 1: taking off no, no, uh uh, I gotta figure this
12:47
Speaker 1: thing out, guys. Why was a health ceo worth millions
12:53
Speaker 1: of dollars gunned down in public? Early early morning? Many
13:00
Speaker 1: people saying it's a pro chiller.
13:03
Speaker 3: The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway
13:06
Speaker 3: between fifty fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once at
13:09
Speaker 3: West fifty fifth Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound
13:11
Speaker 3: on the Avenue in Americas, where he gets onto an
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Speaker 3: electric e city bike and rides northbound on the Avenue
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Speaker 3: Americas towards Central Park. At six forty eight am, we
13:21
Speaker 3: have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at
13:24
Speaker 3: Center Drive. We're still tracking video. The last we see
13:27
Speaker 3: with him on that bike is in Central Park. At
13:29
Speaker 3: the scene, we recover three live nine millimeters rounds and
13:33
Speaker 3: three discharged nine millimeters shell casings. The motor for this
13:37
Speaker 3: murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we
13:40
Speaker 3: have so far, it does appear that the victim was
13:42
Speaker 3: specifically targeted, but at this point we do not know
13:45
Speaker 3: why this does not appear to be a random act
13:48
Speaker 3: of violence.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I know that, I know it's not random. Joining me,
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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona, New York criminal defense attorney,
13:55
Speaker 1: this is her bait. She is also a former prosecutor.
14:00
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What do you make
14:02
Speaker 1: of it so far? Because not only did the pro
14:05
Speaker 1: assassin lead behind three discharged nine millimere shellcasings, they were
14:12
Speaker 1: engraved with three cryptic words. I mean, it's straight out
14:18
Speaker 1: of a crime novel. And another thing, BERNARDA. Anybody that
14:23
Speaker 1: knows how to type goog l E could find out
14:27
Speaker 1: this guy was speaking where and at what time? Yeah,
14:30
Speaker 1: but I.
14:31
Speaker 9: Still think there's an inside job because in a sense
14:33
Speaker 9: of they could have known where he was speaking, but
14:35
Speaker 9: they wouldn't have known exactly what time he would have
14:37
Speaker 9: been leaving out of his hotel. Because remember this shooter
14:40
Speaker 9: had only been waiting about five minutes, so he had
14:43
Speaker 9: to have had some kind of inside information to know
14:46
Speaker 9: the exact time that Brian Thompson would have been leaving
14:49
Speaker 9: his hotel. Look all of this looks very shady. I
14:52
Speaker 9: don't think it's a professional kill at all, because number one,
14:55
Speaker 9: believing of the showcases and the bullets there, and then
14:59
Speaker 9: jumping on a bike. I think there's a lot more
15:01
Speaker 9: to this. I don't see that there's going to be
15:03
Speaker 9: an arrest anytime soon.
15:05
Speaker 1: Though, hold on just the moment on that Daily Bill
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Speaker 1: Daily with me former FBI investigator and joining us from
15:14
Speaker 1: New York, intimately familiar with the ins and outs the
15:17
Speaker 1: alleyways where this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park.
15:22
Speaker 1: That was a pretty good move, and it's not that
15:25
Speaker 1: far from where the shooting was by bike. But he
15:29
Speaker 1: goes into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos.
15:35
Speaker 1: I mean, and we can follow his drill. He had
15:38
Speaker 1: to ditch the bike somewhere. I think that we're going
15:41
Speaker 1: to find out where he leaves the bike. And again
15:43
Speaker 1: no gloves. As you said earlier, of course you got
15:46
Speaker 1: to have something to compare it to. If he's not
15:48
Speaker 1: in the DNA or the APHIST database, we don't have
15:52
Speaker 1: anything to match it too. But that said, can we
15:58
Speaker 1: just agree this is not a pro?
16:00
Speaker 6: I usually agree it's not a pro.
16:01
Speaker 7: I also think that there's other probably kind of breadcrumbs
16:04
Speaker 7: left behind, is that you know if this was connected
16:08
Speaker 7: with either the business because of see that either of
16:11
Speaker 7: the had been a customer who was surely totally upset
16:15
Speaker 7: and obsessed with this individual, or perhaps a former employee.
16:19
Speaker 7: That could have been a number of things. But I
16:21
Speaker 7: think there you have to go back and start looking
16:23
Speaker 7: at where they're threats against the company.
16:24
Speaker 6: Apparently, according to the victim's.
16:26
Speaker 7: Wife there were, and if there were, who was making
16:29
Speaker 7: those and what was the steps that let you start up.
16:32
Speaker 1: With what you're just saying, Bill Daily Lauren Conlin. Now,
16:37
Speaker 1: according to one person there have been threats on the
16:41
Speaker 1: victim's line, and that is his wife. Were those threats
16:46
Speaker 1: ever reported to l A law enforcement?
16:49
Speaker 5: Nancy? Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?
16:52
Speaker 1: With me? Also is Scott Iiker founding member. I can't
16:56
Speaker 1: say this enough of the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey team.
17:01
Speaker 1: Can I just say? He didn't just fall off the
17:04
Speaker 1: turnip truck? People, I ker if I was going to
17:08
Speaker 1: pick him off, I would go somewhere with a silencer
17:12
Speaker 1: and wait out in the middle of nowhere right let
17:15
Speaker 1: his body lay there for three or four hours. Before
17:17
Speaker 1: anybody figures anything out. So why intentionally find him in
17:23
Speaker 1: New York City.
17:24
Speaker 10: I agree, there's a lot of other places that you
17:26
Speaker 10: could have done this murder, but there's a lot of
17:29
Speaker 10: benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,
17:32
Speaker 10: if you think about it, you might be able to
17:33
Speaker 10: mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,
17:37
Speaker 10: cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all
17:40
Speaker 10: the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all
17:42
Speaker 10: the people that might see at different things. And obviously
17:46
Speaker 10: I agree with the other gentleman that says I don't
17:49
Speaker 10: think this guy is a professional. I do think he
17:51
Speaker 10: has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI
17:53
Speaker 10: swap team. I shot twice a week, and I can
17:58
Speaker 10: see that type of stance that he had some training
18:01
Speaker 10: for him to do that malfunction, the clear the gun,
18:05
Speaker 10: shoot again, clear it clear it. That takes training in time.
18:09
Speaker 10: So I think, at least in my mind, he's made
18:12
Speaker 10: a lot of mistakes. But I don't think he's a professional.
18:15
Speaker 10: I totally agree with that, but he has had some
18:17
Speaker 10: train and.
18:18
Speaker 1: We are learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe.
18:21
Speaker 3: Kenney, from speaking to other employees that traveled with him
18:24
Speaker 3: to New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security detail.
18:27
Speaker 3: He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem
18:30
Speaker 3: like he had any issues at all. So I don't
18:33
Speaker 3: think he did not have a security detail.
18:35
Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't there
18:38
Speaker 1: just a firefighter's pension fund that sued the victim because
18:45
Speaker 1: he dumped about thirty one percent of his stock made
18:49
Speaker 1: fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right, and
18:54
Speaker 1: there's a complaint about that. Yeah, that's happening. The wife says,
18:59
Speaker 1: there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars and he
19:04
Speaker 1: doesn't have security detail.
19:06
Speaker 4: Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars.
19:08
Speaker 5: Nancy.
19:09
Speaker 4: And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits.
19:13
Speaker 4: He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patients' coverage.
19:18
Speaker 4: So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then
19:21
Speaker 4: additionally there was a data breach a few I believe
19:25
Speaker 4: it was February of twenty twenty four, where many many
19:29
Speaker 4: people were at risk and not happy.
19:39
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace in addition to a water
19:44
Speaker 1: bottle and a candy wrapper, really he's got to have
19:49
Speaker 1: a starburst just before a murder. In addition to those
19:54
Speaker 1: clues and possibly a cell phone linked to the suspect.
20:00
Speaker 1: To this, it's just like a fifth grade girl writes
20:04
Speaker 1: an action thriller or tries to listen.
20:06
Speaker 11: Please have released a new chilling detail in the assassination
20:09
Speaker 11: style shooting. Three live rounds and three shellcasings recovered from
20:13
Speaker 11: the crime scene, and cops are now saying there are
20:15
Speaker 11: inscriptions on the shellcasings. The words deny, defend, and depose
20:21
Speaker 11: were engraved on the bullets.
20:22
Speaker 1: So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on
20:28
Speaker 1: the bullets. By who? The local jeweler joining me right
20:32
Speaker 1: now is a ballistics expert. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
20:37
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
20:42
Speaker 1: and star of hit series Body Bags. That Joe Scott
20:44
Speaker 1: Morgan Joe Scott really, okay, I can't hammer this enough
20:50
Speaker 1: a pro What did they write it in? Fancy cursive deny, defend, depose? Seriously,
20:57
Speaker 1: that sounds like the ransom note left behind in John Benay.
21:01
Speaker 1: A small foreign faction once one hundred and eighteen thousand
21:04
Speaker 1: dollars would stop.
21:05
Speaker 12: What's really fascinating about this, Nancy, is the fact that
21:09
Speaker 12: they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,
21:11
Speaker 12: and then they have the three live rounds and he's
21:15
Speaker 12: having to try to clear this weapon because he's had
21:17
Speaker 12: a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when
21:22
Speaker 12: you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he
21:28
Speaker 12: had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving
21:32
Speaker 12: that was on these casing the fact that he had
21:38
Speaker 12: a jam in the weapon, I would think that it
21:42
Speaker 12: would be engraved on all of the rounds. So how
21:45
Speaker 12: can you plan for that, for instance, that these rounds
21:48
Speaker 12: are stacked, which they would be in a magazine, and
21:52
Speaker 12: every time he clears it, he's going to eject a
21:56
Speaker 12: live round as opposed to those that were spent when
21:59
Speaker 12: he was If you watch the sequence on a video,
22:02
Speaker 12: he fires once and then it looks like he clears,
22:06
Speaker 12: but he may have actually cleared two rounds at that
22:09
Speaker 12: point in time that we're still live because the weapon
22:12
Speaker 12: is jamming on him and he has to cycle through it,
22:15
Speaker 12: so he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is
22:18
Speaker 12: it might be there might be engraving on all of
22:21
Speaker 12: the rounds, and that he has taken a lot of
22:24
Speaker 12: time somewhere, probably you know, at home or wherever it is.
22:27
Speaker 12: He shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he
22:30
Speaker 12: didn't wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face.
22:35
Speaker 12: There's a lot still to kind of untangle here, but
22:38
Speaker 12: that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before
22:43
Speaker 12: in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, you know,
22:47
Speaker 12: Hollywood makes a big deal out of this kind of thing,
22:49
Speaker 12: but it's just not something you commonly run into. My
22:53
Speaker 12: question is what's the skill level of the engraving in
22:56
Speaker 12: addition to attempting to define how this was engraved, what
23:03
Speaker 12: instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be
23:06
Speaker 12: able to pick up on some form in his writing
23:09
Speaker 12: if he's doing his free hand.
23:11
Speaker 11: Brian Thompson's wife Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has
23:14
Speaker 11: been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying
23:17
Speaker 11: it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She
23:20
Speaker 11: doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people
23:23
Speaker 11: that had been threatening him.
23:24
Speaker 1: Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us jo Scott.
23:28
Speaker 1: If I said earlier, if there was a death out
23:31
Speaker 1: on my husband A, I wouldn't let him travel alone
23:34
Speaker 1: to New York. I would at least go with him
23:36
Speaker 1: at the very least. But that said, they have children
23:39
Speaker 1: to take care of back at home. But no security detail,
23:43
Speaker 1: no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one
23:48
Speaker 1: coming forward with the alleged threats if they weren't reported
23:51
Speaker 1: to police. Can anyone within the company verify this ever happened?
23:56
Speaker 12: Well, he hasn't spoken of this to anybody that's around him,
24:00
Speaker 12: But why would he not, you know, say something about this?
24:03
Speaker 12: And let me tell you one more thing. A guy
24:06
Speaker 12: that is in his atmosphere. You know, we see all
24:08
Speaker 12: these celebrities, so called celebrities that are out there that
24:11
Speaker 12: have these you know, security details with it. This is
24:14
Speaker 12: a guy, Nancy, that actually has a level of value
24:19
Speaker 12: and would heighten anybody's since it's relative to the danger
24:25
Speaker 12: he could potentially be in. Why wouldn't you put a
24:28
Speaker 12: couple of people on him to check the rout at
24:30
Speaker 12: least to be body people that are going to score
24:33
Speaker 12: him around. Maybe he didn't want that. I have no idea,
24:37
Speaker 12: but I do know that he's a prime target. It's
24:39
Speaker 12: just fascinating to me that they chose this particular location,
24:42
Speaker 12: this individual went about it in this manner because I
24:46
Speaker 12: agree with all of the other panelists. I think this
24:48
Speaker 12: guy has some weapons familiarity, but he is in no
24:51
Speaker 12: way a pro. If he had been a pro, we
24:54
Speaker 12: would not have seen the video last that long. This
24:57
Speaker 12: guy would drop down.
25:00
Speaker 1: You may need to lay down for what you're about
25:03
Speaker 1: to hear. Take a listen.
25:04
Speaker 11: The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project
25:07
Speaker 11: roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,
25:09
Speaker 11: carrying what looked like an e bike battery. He's then
25:12
Speaker 11: seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the
25:14
Speaker 11: Hilton in just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what
25:17
Speaker 11: exactly the suspect purchased, but police believe a water bottle
25:21
Speaker 11: and candy wrapper left at the crime scene may belong
25:23
Speaker 11: to the shooter and are testing the items for latent
25:25
Speaker 11: fingerprints and DNA.
25:27
Speaker 1: The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is
25:29
Speaker 1: that the shooter used a credit card. I mean, he
25:32
Speaker 1: hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and
25:36
Speaker 1: of course places himself at a public housing project. Yeah,
25:40
Speaker 1: that's right. Blame the people of the housing project somehow
25:44
Speaker 1: drag that into it. I guarantee you that was orchestrated
25:47
Speaker 1: three miles from the scene with what looked to be
25:50
Speaker 1: carrying an e bike battery in cases e bike crapped
25:54
Speaker 1: out on him. Now, at first, this is reported to
25:56
Speaker 1: be a city bike, the kind that are easily accessed
25:59
Speaker 1: around New York City. Now we're hearing it may not
26:02
Speaker 1: be a city bike. That said, then he's at Starbucks
26:06
Speaker 1: just beside the Hilton minutes before the attack, staring straight
26:10
Speaker 1: into the surveillance cameras. So there's not just a water
26:13
Speaker 1: bottle he leaves behind a candy wrapper. Somebody needs a
26:17
Speaker 1: bit of honey, somebody wants the starbus before a murder.
26:20
Speaker 4: Yes, and there also have been reports that NYPD believes
26:25
Speaker 4: that he may have actually taken this subway from the
26:28
Speaker 4: Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.
26:32
Speaker 1: Wait, then, if he was on the Upper west Side,
26:36
Speaker 1: then he spotted at a housing project. There's not a
26:41
Speaker 1: housing project on the Upper west Side. Okay, that's where
26:44
Speaker 1: all the rich people live. They look down on Central Park.
26:47
Speaker 1: There's not a housing project there. So does he leave
26:49
Speaker 1: the Upper West to go to a housing project to
26:51
Speaker 1: be spotted and then go to the Starbucks.
26:54
Speaker 4: Well, that's what police are trying to figure out, and
26:56
Speaker 4: I didn't. Well, I'm hoping that he did take the
26:59
Speaker 4: subway because Mayor Eric Adams.
27:01
Speaker 5: Did implement more cameras earlier this year.
27:04
Speaker 1: Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,
27:07
Speaker 1: but you're right, subway would help me figure out where
27:10
Speaker 1: he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows
27:14
Speaker 1: those paths. I'm still flummoxed by the fact that he
27:19
Speaker 1: would lead a water bottle with his DNA on it,
27:23
Speaker 1: a candy wrapper, take a bike, no gloves, has a
27:28
Speaker 1: pretend pro shooter stance, and has engraved bullets. For Pete's sake,
27:34
Speaker 1: why not just throw down your driver's license before you leave. Okay,
27:38
Speaker 1: Now we hear about a potential eyewitness that goes on
27:44
Speaker 1: the run.
27:44
Speaker 11: Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from
27:47
Speaker 11: the scene as Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed
27:49
Speaker 11: in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup was standing
27:51
Speaker 11: in a doorway just feet away from Thompson when the
27:54
Speaker 11: shooter opened fire. She runs along the building toward the
27:57
Speaker 11: shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities
28:00
Speaker 11: are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be
28:03
Speaker 11: able to provide new details on the shooter.
28:05
Speaker 3: There's a cul phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working
28:07
Speaker 3: through that cell phone. Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically
28:10
Speaker 3: and as far as words being exchanged, we do not
28:12
Speaker 3: have audio of the incident. We only have the regular
28:15
Speaker 3: video nothing. Nothing for well, there's one witness standing right
28:18
Speaker 3: next to the victim when he was shot. We're still
28:20
Speaker 3: trying to identify that victim.
28:22
Speaker 1: Excuse me, excuse me.
28:23
Speaker 12: That witness.
28:23
Speaker 1: And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their
28:26
Speaker 1: attention back home to Minnesota once again.
28:30
Speaker 3: We're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media.
28:34
Speaker 3: We are interviewing employees, we are interviewing family members. We
28:37
Speaker 3: will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota.
28:39
Speaker 1: To bernardavi Alona joining us, high profile criminal defense attorney,
28:43
Speaker 1: former prosecutor in this jurisdiction. What do you make of it?
28:47
Speaker 6: There's still so much unknown.
28:49
Speaker 9: There's still so much unknown, Nancy, I mean, I'm nervous.
28:52
Speaker 9: I just don't see that there's going to be a
28:55
Speaker 9: somewhat arrested or apprehended at least for another few months,
28:58
Speaker 9: if ever.
29:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Bernarda with the DNA, we
29:23
Speaker 1: believe on the water bottle, the candy wrapper, likely on
29:28
Speaker 1: the bike when it's recovered, and it will be He's
29:32
Speaker 1: like a deer in the headlights at Starbucks. He's catching
29:35
Speaker 1: every surveillance video around, and he's traveling on public transportation.
29:40
Speaker 1: You still think we're not going to catch him. I
29:42
Speaker 1: think it's going to take a lot of time, and
29:43
Speaker 1: also we have to.
29:44
Speaker 9: Hope that his DNA is in the system, in the
29:46
Speaker 9: CODA system to be able to identify him, or unless
29:49
Speaker 9: they go into one of his genealogy sites where they
29:52
Speaker 9: try to try to identify him by someone in his
29:55
Speaker 9: family that may have submitted for DNA.
29:57
Speaker 6: I don't think it's impossible.
29:58
Speaker 9: Because also we have remember because of the timing of
30:02
Speaker 9: this that we're talking about six in the morning, it
30:04
Speaker 9: is very early. The streets are not packed, so it
30:07
Speaker 9: makes it much easier to follow him via the cameras.
30:11
Speaker 9: So I think that's why the cops and law enforcement
30:13
Speaker 9: has been able to recover so much camera.
30:15
Speaker 6: Footage of him.
30:17
Speaker 1: So the timing.
30:18
Speaker 9: Helps the helps law enforcement to try to get so
30:22
Speaker 9: much lead. So I think it's a matter of time.
30:24
Speaker 9: I just don't think it's going to be any time.
30:26
Speaker 9: So I agree again, this is not a professional Scott Iiker.
30:30
Speaker 1: What do you make of the fact that New York
30:34
Speaker 1: detectives are now turning to the Minnesota law enforcement.
30:40
Speaker 10: You've got to cover all the bases, not only but
30:44
Speaker 10: you know his work is, you know, is in New York.
30:49
Speaker 10: If you leave that untouched, you're missing potential evidence. You
30:53
Speaker 10: talked about the prior threats. According to the wife, Well
30:56
Speaker 10: let's get back there and talk to the employees there.
31:00
Speaker 10: Let's talk about you know, what his personal life is like.
31:04
Speaker 10: It could be, you know, a romance killing. You never
31:08
Speaker 10: know until you get further into this type situation.
31:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would go with a romance killing as you
31:13
Speaker 1: just put it, or something motivated in his personal life.
31:17
Speaker 1: Before I would come up with a far fetched international
31:22
Speaker 1: espionage poor guy didn't get coverage on his insurance hatches
31:27
Speaker 1: major assassination plot theory. When motives become more and more
31:33
Speaker 1: far fetched, they're more and more unlikely to be true.
31:37
Speaker 1: But I can't ignore this. Listen.
31:40
Speaker 11: In February twenty twenty four, The Wall Street Journal reports
31:43
Speaker 11: United Health CEO Brian Thompson is the subject of a
31:45
Speaker 11: Department of Justice antitrust probe. Prominent pension funds in California,
31:49
Speaker 11: including the Hollywood Firefighter's Pension Fund, file a federal lawsuit
31:53
Speaker 11: against Thompson and other United Healthcare executives, accusing them of
31:57
Speaker 11: offloading one hundred and seventeen million dollars in company stock
32:00
Speaker 11: before the Department of Justice probe becomes public. The lawsuit
32:03
Speaker 11: claims Thompson knew about the investigation as early as October
32:06
Speaker 11: twenty twenty three and sold thirty one percent of his
32:09
Speaker 11: company shares, making fifteen million in profit, eleven days before
32:13
Speaker 11: The Wall Street Journal reported their probe, sending United health
32:15
Speaker 11: stock sinking five percent.
32:17
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, money, money, money, the love of money the
32:23
Speaker 1: root of all evil. You know, when you're looking at motives,
32:27
Speaker 1: that helps you find the purp. We know that law
32:31
Speaker 1: enforcement in New York now turning toward Minnesota. Why but
32:35
Speaker 1: I can't ignore all that money that he pocketed. To
32:40
Speaker 1: Justice Scott Morgan, I don't know if you heard this earlier,
32:43
Speaker 1: but Lauren Colin, I believe it was you that stated
32:47
Speaker 1: he had developed some type of algorithm to deny claims.
32:50
Speaker 4: Yes, one of the subsidiaries developed an algorithm where they
32:55
Speaker 4: were accused of not even caring or knowing which claims
32:59
Speaker 4: were being denied. They were just doing this based on
33:01
Speaker 4: the algorithm.
33:01
Speaker 1: But that wasn't him they came up with the algorithm,
33:03
Speaker 1: or was it.
33:04
Speaker 4: It wasn't him in particular. I mean, it was somebody
33:07
Speaker 4: within the company, but I mean, of course he could
33:11
Speaker 4: be targeted. Additionally, going back to when you mentioned the
33:14
Speaker 4: Minnesota police, there was a protest at the company's Minnetonta
33:19
Speaker 4: headquarters this past July, which.
33:22
Speaker 5: Led to the arrest of eleven people.
33:24
Speaker 1: Protest about what.
33:25
Speaker 4: Demonstrators accused the company's insurance arm of a systemic practice
33:29
Speaker 4: of refusing to approve care through prior authorization denials or
33:34
Speaker 4: paper healthcare through claim denials.
33:36
Speaker 5: So again these.
33:37
Speaker 1: Okay, Joe Scott, what about it? Is the motive becoming
33:40
Speaker 1: any clearer or is it becoming more murky for you?
33:43
Speaker 1: For me, it's becoming more clear.
33:44
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, it is. It is becoming more clear. And
33:47
Speaker 12: it's a way that you know, investigatively, you know, you
33:49
Speaker 12: can kind of pair this thing down relative to motive.
33:52
Speaker 12: And as you always say, we don't have to prove
33:55
Speaker 12: motive but when you're still searching for somebody that could
33:58
Speaker 12: be an active shooter out there, it's investigative goal because
34:03
Speaker 12: that's one of the roads that you need to go
34:05
Speaker 12: down relative to this to try to suss this out. Hey,
34:08
Speaker 12: can I just say one more thing, Nancy, that it's
34:10
Speaker 12: a dead giveaway with this case, that is a specific identifier.
34:16
Speaker 12: You know. People can go and buy handguns, you know,
34:19
Speaker 12: and there's going to be a waiting period. But if
34:23
Speaker 12: this suppressor that he has on this weapon is not homemade,
34:29
Speaker 12: he will have to have a handgun platform that's going
34:33
Speaker 12: to have a threaded barrel on it so that the
34:36
Speaker 12: suppressor can be screwed onto it. Now, when you purchase
34:40
Speaker 12: a suppressor, it's actually a bit more rigorous than just
34:44
Speaker 12: buying a handgun. You have to pay a tax in
34:47
Speaker 12: advance of that purchase, and then you have to wait
34:50
Speaker 12: because the APF comes in and they have a profile
34:54
Speaker 12: on you at that point in time, and you have
34:56
Speaker 12: to create a huge amount of paperwork relative to so
35:00
Speaker 12: that one bit in there, provided of course, this is
35:04
Speaker 12: not some kind of homemade suppressor, that's going to be
35:07
Speaker 12: a big clue as well.
35:09
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that pro stance. The sheeter
35:12
Speaker 1: is trying to affect clearly right handed, a right handed
35:17
Speaker 1: mail white with a specialized camera backpack. That's a camera backpack.
35:27
Speaker 1: I guess he was using it, Joe Scott to store
35:31
Speaker 1: the gun and anymo. But that's a specialized and very expensive,
35:36
Speaker 1: nearly three hundred dollars backpack he's got on Joe Scott.
35:39
Speaker 12: Yeah, And what would be the purpose of that? You
35:42
Speaker 12: know that you would need that level. You know, you
35:44
Speaker 12: want to make yourself small. I would think you would
35:46
Speaker 12: want to make yourself unnoticeable. One other thing that I've
35:50
Speaker 12: thought about as well, looking at some of this footage,
35:52
Speaker 12: fancy is I was really interested if he had layered
35:57
Speaker 12: up on clothing. And I know you few cases this
36:00
Speaker 12: way before that involved this where an individual will, do
36:05
Speaker 12: you know, conduct a shooting and they're prepared going in,
36:09
Speaker 12: they begin to strip their clothes off. Remember you've got
36:11
Speaker 12: CCTV footage of this guy, you know, out in about town.
36:16
Speaker 12: Did he rip his clothes off, that top layer of
36:18
Speaker 12: clothing dumped them? Did he have something else in the
36:21
Speaker 12: back that he could have changed into change his appearance
36:24
Speaker 12: as well?
36:25
Speaker 3: Uh?
36:25
Speaker 12: And it's still called mask that he had is not
36:28
Speaker 12: actually a mask. You can still see his nose in
36:31
Speaker 12: his eyes, and of course he's bare handed, so I
36:35
Speaker 12: don't It's just it's weird to me that this guy
36:38
Speaker 12: is not fully prepared, but yet it seems as though
36:42
Speaker 12: he wants to be prepared again. These are these are
36:45
Speaker 12: little elements of little breadcrumbs along the path that they're
36:48
Speaker 12: going to follow in this case. I'm I'm actually thinking
36:51
Speaker 12: they're going to catch this guy in pretty short order.
36:54
Speaker 11: An internet super claims he may have tracked the location
36:57
Speaker 11: of the assassin using city bikes tracking. A data scientist
37:01
Speaker 11: named Riley, who goes by at rtwlz on X, claims
37:05
Speaker 11: he's been scraping city bike data every minute and believes
37:08
Speaker 11: he tracks the location of the bike from near the
37:11
Speaker 11: shooting at six forty four am and straight to a
37:13
Speaker 11: location at Madison Avenue at eighty second Street at six
37:16
Speaker 11: fifty two am. Riley turns the info over to the
37:18
Speaker 11: MIPD waiting on the results.
37:20
Speaker 1: It cannot underestimate the power of citizens saluths. I can
37:23
Speaker 1: tell you that much, especially after Gabby Patito's case. There
37:26
Speaker 1: are nearly twenty six thousand, twenty six thousand public and
37:30
Speaker 1: private cameras throughout Manhattan to you Bill Daily. If you
37:36
Speaker 1: had to wager on what his path was, knowing he
37:43
Speaker 1: went into Central Park on the bike, what would it be.
37:46
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, knowing the way people operate, having
37:49
Speaker 7: observed them over the many years, both in the public
37:52
Speaker 7: and private sector, and behaviors of criminals who would be criminals,
37:55
Speaker 7: is that people are very comfortable in areas that the
37:58
Speaker 7: use of being being in. So I would probably think
38:01
Speaker 7: that this person traveled in a place where he felt comfortable,
38:04
Speaker 7: where he was kind of able to kind of blend
38:05
Speaker 7: into his home environment, not something that's out of sorts.
38:10
Speaker 7: If we're kind of working on this theory. They're a
38:12
Speaker 7: couple of reports by local media here in New York
38:15
Speaker 7: that perhaps people saw a bicycle and somebody resembling his
38:18
Speaker 7: subscription exiting the park up in the upper eighties or
38:22
Speaker 7: just maybe forty five minutes later. Perhaps that's that's the
38:25
Speaker 7: direction that he went in. You know, I think, and
38:28
Speaker 7: as you're going back to kind of motive, but just
38:29
Speaker 7: want to touch on that for a second, because as
38:31
Speaker 7: much as we talk about perhaps as somebody was a
38:34
Speaker 7: former customer or former employee, but also in my career
38:37
Speaker 7: I've also seen where we've had these advocates, people who
38:40
Speaker 7: are out there. We mentioned about protests outside, about the
38:44
Speaker 7: outside of the company, but there are people who become
38:46
Speaker 7: invigorated by the fact that they have a cause. And
38:48
Speaker 7: it could be somebody who's following in those footsteps where
38:51
Speaker 7: they're invigorated because they hear all these things about big
38:53
Speaker 7: insurance and want it takes take steps.
38:55
Speaker 6: On their own.
38:56
Speaker 1: Right now, we are looking for answers, but I know this.
39:00
Speaker 1: I believe he went straight to a subway en route.
39:03
Speaker 1: He shed some of his clothes as Scott and I
39:06
Speaker 1: were discussing, but he kept the backpack and the shoes
39:11
Speaker 1: had to because the gun will be in the backpack.
39:15
Speaker 1: I'd be scouring every one of those twenty six thousand
39:18
Speaker 1: cameras till I see a white guy walking along same
39:22
Speaker 1: shoes with the backpack. If you know or think you
39:26
Speaker 1: have any information on this case, If you think you
39:30
Speaker 1: saw something you're not sure, doesn't matter, dial one eight
39:34
Speaker 1: hundred five seven seven Tips one eight hundred five seven
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Speaker 1: seven eight four seven seven. And now we remember an
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Speaker 1: American hero. Police officer, Sergeant Herschel Turner, mouleen Akers, PD, Missouri,
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Speaker 1: Herschel struck and killed in the line of duty over
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Speaker 1: twenty two years serving and protecting. Survived by wife Donna
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Speaker 1: and seven children. American heroes serg A. Herschel, Turner, Nancy
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Speaker 1: Grace signing off goodbye friend,