Latest / Sasquatch & Sourdough / Ep. 32 | Stay Puft and Spirit-Led: Faith in a Haunted World w/ The Dancing Toaster Podcast

Transcript

Ep. 32 | Stay Puft and Spirit-Led: Faith in a Haunted World w/ The Dancing Toaster Podcast · Sasquatch & Sourdough

0:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome back to Sasquatch and Sourdough.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Christina, and guys, tonight I am really excited because I have a very special guest in the kitchen tonight.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: He is a pastor, a podcaster, and psychic.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: No, just kidding.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not a psychic.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: I had to.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: I had to, yeah, right.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: So uh tonight I have uh Nelly from the Dancing Toaster podcast.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I am such a huge fan.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Guys, if you haven't listened to the Dancing Toaster, I don't know what you're doing.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: I think the first time that I've ever like I ever heard of you, like was on the Bump podcast with Bo Kennedy.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like you kind of have the same sort of I don't know, it's interesting because like I could tell he kind of like didn't get it.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't understand the reference of the Dancing Toaster, yeah, yeah, you're just not gonna get it.
1:20
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, and well, and I did that on purpose.
1:23
SPEAKER_05: I I the the name I had I actually had several names before launching the show last October.
1:29
SPEAKER_05: And um I I I ran them by my wife, and when she was soon as soon as she heard, and I had logos for each, and so as soon as she heard that and saw the logo, she's like, that's the one.
1:39
SPEAKER_05: And she didn't she didn't even know where it came from.
1:42
SPEAKER_05: She was just like, that's too fun not to use.
1:44
SPEAKER_05: And I like that it's kind of ambiguous.
1:47
SPEAKER_05: I like that it invites questions because if you get the reference, you're already excited.
1:52
SPEAKER_05: And if you don't get the reference, it sucks you in.
1:54
SPEAKER_05: Like, well, now I have to ask him why did he pick such a weird name?
1:58
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I'm glad you asked.
1:59
SPEAKER_05: And I'm sincerely glad that they asked.
2:02
SPEAKER_05: So, yeah, of course, it's it's from the sequel uh of the Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters 2, and they're playing with the slime, and you know, they pour some into it and play some Jackie Wilson.
2:12
SPEAKER_05: YOLO! So it starts literally popping around on the pool table.
2:16
SPEAKER_05: And um, the the the second show that I that I started doing is called The Man Eating Toaster, and that's literally from the latter part of the scene where Banquin's like, oh, you know, so anyways, love I and I always I have to I have to wear my Ghostbusters shirt because of it.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yeah.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: I just it's just so funny because like with Sasquatch and sourdough, people are like, Do you like Sasquatch and sourdough?
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, actually, it's um it was an evolution of things, and it's really it's literally just like two keywords.
2:48
SPEAKER_04: It's such a fun name though.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, like it's grown, it's stuck, like you know, but so it was just funny.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: When I first heard that, I was like, Oh my gosh, this guy, how are you doing this?
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you doing?
2:58
SPEAKER_01: And then it took me forever to listen.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why, because I just was like probably stuck in a rut of listening to the same stuff, and everyone's talking about like you know, Lilith and Nephilim and Deliverance and the End of the World.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, Well, wait a second, that's right.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: I should listen to this guy.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: And I put it on and I was like, What?
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Why have I not because your sound design is fantastic?
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely fantastic.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Like it's so it's immersive.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you do it.
3:26
SPEAKER_05: Uh it music background uh is is where where it began.
3:31
SPEAKER_05: And um I I didn't know how much I was gonna enjoy it until I started doing it, and uh I I took a leap.
3:39
SPEAKER_05: There's a sound library that I I bought access to, and literally have tens of thousands of songs and sound effects, and whatever I can think of, it's like type it in, does it have that?
3:49
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, oh cool, it has that, you know.
3:51
SPEAKER_05: So some some stories are easier than others to kind of draw people in, and sometimes it's just it's just the music that I I can use to set a scene.
4:00
SPEAKER_05: But I've had a ton of fun doing it.
4:02
SPEAKER_05: Like I love I love doing it, but it is a lot of work that goes into it.
4:06
SPEAKER_05: More than so, trying to do it weekly has has been very challenging.
4:11
SPEAKER_05: And then I was stupid enough to try and do a second one.
4:15
SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's that's that was hard, especially last month.
4:18
SPEAKER_05: That was it was nigh impossible because I didn't get out any of the second uh second show.
4:23
SPEAKER_05: So I'm trying trying to remedy that.
4:25
SPEAKER_05: And but oh man, I I'm having a ton of fun and I get to meet all kinds of awesome people.
4:29
SPEAKER_05: And I I never thought that um it would it would take take off like it has.
4:35
SPEAKER_05: I need it to take off a little bit more, you know, because obviously what we do, we we want people to enjoy it.
4:40
SPEAKER_05: That's part of why we do it.
4:42
SPEAKER_05: It you know, we we have like this false humility.
4:44
SPEAKER_05: Well, if only 10 people listen, I don't want to work, you know, 15 hours on an episode for 10 people to listen.
4:50
SPEAKER_05: Like I would much rather, you know, more people get to enjoy it.
4:53
SPEAKER_05: So which was the first episode that you saw, or did you just start from the beginning?
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I didn't start from the beginning.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I started with the I started with the Warrens because good we so I think so.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because Crystal and I were talking about the Warrens not too long ago.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: We always end up bringing them up because I I used to really, really love the Conjuring franchise.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Um for me, like that kind of horror, that storytelling, um more like spiritual horror always got me more than like jump scares.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: So I loved the conjuring.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And I really just be I think it was obviously because the characterization in the movie was so um convincing that I just assumed that that was the story.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So we knew we found out like later that um, you know, it was not at all.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: No, and I liked the idea that she was like, you know, had this like psychic mediumship kind of going and she was trying to help because that's always what happens, right?
6:02
SPEAKER_01: We have this heart where we want to help the people and help the family and whoever's like experiencing the spiritual trauma.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: But your research was amazing, like yeah.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: That one that was like the first one where I was like, oh my gosh, this is and I love that so you have a really interesting format because you definitely pull people in, like, there's definitely a hook of the storytelling, but then you really get into a switch where you're just like straight, like, okay, let me tie it into the Bible and how you know we can kind of get lost in the weeds of this story and the supernatural and and kind of whatever.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So can you like I I would really love to know just how you came up with with this idea?
6:52
SPEAKER_05: Um, I love true crime and I love ghost stories.
6:56
SPEAKER_05: So I would, you know, I go on YouTube a lot and I'll listen to I go back and forth between between true crime and then you know, just ghost stories and things like that.
7:05
SPEAKER_05: And it would make me sad the number of people that would be going through a haunting or or being tormented in some way, and then seeking help and finding none, and going to certain pastors in local churches and then being shrugged off.
7:25
SPEAKER_05: It just broke my heart.
7:26
SPEAKER_05: And so I'm I'm listening, and a lot of a lot of the these types of channels, or or yeah, YouTube channels and whatnot, they're they're not faith-based, they're not Christian.
7:36
SPEAKER_05: And so they're they're kind of like, oh, these stupid Christians, you know, it's like, oh man, but we shouldn't be, and and we should we should have more compassion and we should have more knowledge on these things.
7:46
SPEAKER_05: And uh Dr.
7:47
SPEAKER_05: Michael Heiser was huge in my walk with the Lord and just uh kind of giving a scholarly legitimization to like, hey, as Christians, we need to own the supernatural worldview.
7:59
SPEAKER_05: Like, our God is supernatural, the Bible is a supernatural book.
8:02
SPEAKER_05: And I know some don't like that word, I love it, and I think it does have explanatory power.
8:06
SPEAKER_05: And um, so I I I wanted to uh provide answers for those that were looking for them in some of the weirdest corners of the world and in the unexplained.
8:18
SPEAKER_05: So that was the hardest, you know, to try to provide uh both Christians and non-Christians with answers.
8:24
SPEAKER_05: But for the Christian end, it's like I really want to open their eyes back to hey, we need to we need to know about these things.
8:32
SPEAKER_05: We keep we people are coming to us for answers, and um, if we don't have them, we're we're we're failing them.
8:38
SPEAKER_05: We're not doing all that we can to be all things to all people that by all means some might be saved, as Paul said.
8:44
SPEAKER_05: So, and and also honestly, I I've been called by the Lord to plant a church in a really strange place.
8:49
SPEAKER_05: Uh I'm I'm from Texas, but I live in Washington State, and it is one of the most unchurched states in the country.
8:56
SPEAKER_05: So Bigfoot stuff is huge up here, new age stuff is huge, uh you know, witchcraft and sorcery and the occult is all those things are massive here.
9:07
SPEAKER_05: So it's so it's it's been so cool the opportunities that I get because my side of my truck it has the dancing toaster on the side of it now.
9:15
SPEAKER_05: So when I'm going through, you know, all these coffee spots, because there there are hundreds of coffee spots, and they're like, oh my gosh, what's the dancing toaster?
9:22
SPEAKER_05: You know, and I'm like, well, it's actually a paranormal podcast.
9:25
SPEAKER_05: And they're like, oh my gosh, that's so cool.
9:27
SPEAKER_05: And uh so I'll hand them a business card when they hand me the receipt.
9:31
SPEAKER_05: And so it's been a really cool opportunity to uh, again, I want to re-enchant my Christian listeners to embrace the supernatural, but do so biblically.
9:40
SPEAKER_05: But then I also want to provide answers for those that, hey, say, I believe in all those things too.
9:46
SPEAKER_05: I just think they're not exactly what you've been told that they are, or you know, some of these things that seem innocent.
9:52
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, it's not as innocent as you've been told either.
9:56
SPEAKER_05: Um, because at the end of the day, I always try and tie it back to the Bible as the foundation for everything that that I believe and that we believe as Christians, but also admitting at times when that's not as easy as we've been told either, and say, look, you know, there are some that like to pretend to be sure on certain things, but when you look at the text, it leaves a lot of room for discussion and debate.
10:22
SPEAKER_05: So by by trying to bring in some of that humility uh back to Bible study and and to some of these topics, it's really created a lot of opportunities for me to talk with believers and non-believers and and in really cool moments like this too, where where you know, maybe back in the day I I may have been a little more rigid in my approach to certain things, where it's like, nah, the the more I learn, the more I realize we don't know, and I don't know.
10:50
SPEAKER_05: So uh the the humility has been just such a bridge builder, and um, yeah, so that's a little bit I can be a little long-winded, so I apologize.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: No, that's perfect.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, actually, so it's it's really funny because what I as I kept listening to your show, like what I figured out was so for me, when so I came to know like I got saved in 2019, and after that I got super religious and super just like, oh well, this is bad.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: I can't watch this anymore, I can't do that anymore.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: And there was nothing that like anybody itched, it was really weird.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like anybody at church, like my pastors, nobody said that.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: It was just something that kind of was there.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I think the root of it was probably that I had run from God so long that I just didn't want to get out of his favor, but that's completely not how that works.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: But in my mind, that was just like I was just so afraid to like lose him again, if that makes sense.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to, so I got like super religious and I wanted to do everything right.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And that's totally not, it's all works, right?
11:57
SPEAKER_01: Like that's not how that works.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: That's not how we do it.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I got really rigid myself, and it was like, okay, no Harry Potter, no this, no that.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, can't do any of this, you know.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, well, wait a second, what about the supernatural experiences that I had when I was younger?
12:13
SPEAKER_01: What about ghosts?
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, what about this?
12:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a ghost in the Bible.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
12:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, so I had all of these questions.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: And so the cool thing was, I didn't find your podcast in at that time.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: But when I started listening to your podcast, your podcast was answering all of those questions that a baby Christian, so to speak, would have about those experiences.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: So if you're if your your approach is working in that, like if I'm someone that's coming out of this sort of space, like say I'm a paranormal investigator or you know, whatever, and I'm trying to like really figure that out, like your what you're creating is really important because it tells those stories and then it just kind of like breaks it down like, well, this is kind of the biblical structure, this is what they got right, this is what they got wrong, and this is why.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's really good teaching, you know, thanks sprinkled in the amazing storytelling.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: So, but it would that occurred to me when I was, I just kind of like started binge listening to all the ghost stuff.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, man, I wish I would have had this even before I listened to blurry creatures, because they do a good job kind of helping people reconcile, but it's still kind of like, well, I really kind of want the meat, you know.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes you just really want to hear what the word says because the word is what changes our heart, and I mean the experience too, but then getting that into our heart is so important as well.
13:37
SPEAKER_05: So right, no, and and you know, with with Blurry, they're wonderful about asking all these wonderful questions um and going on these wonderful journeys with guests.
13:48
SPEAKER_05: And I I think for me, I I wanted to lean more into the answer department, like, yeah, but what am I to make of this in light of what we know to be true from scripture?
13:59
SPEAKER_05: Let's tie it to something immovable because these things are shifting.
14:04
SPEAKER_05: Like, because I've heard stories from people that just they're all over the place, and it's like, okay, I don't have all the answers.
14:12
SPEAKER_05: That's not what I'm saying I'm trying to do with the show either.
14:15
SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, it's like, I may not know X, Y, and Z, but man, look at A, B, C, these look at these things, and now let's use these to try and filter through what we're seeing and hearing from the world and from those around us.
14:29
SPEAKER_05: So, yeah, no, they're great about asking the questions, and a lot of their guests are experts in various fields.
14:36
SPEAKER_05: I I I'm no expert in anything, but but I I do try I do try to work really hard to find something to ground it all back down.
14:46
SPEAKER_05: And some episodes are easier than others in doing that.
14:49
SPEAKER_05: A lot of the cryptid stuff left a lot of stuff up in the air, you know.
14:53
SPEAKER_05: But it's like, you know, let's ask some questions and let's try and make some sense of it and be okay if the answer is still, I don't know.
15:02
SPEAKER_05: And then, you know, that goes a long way, I think, with non-believers as well.
15:05
SPEAKER_05: When you're willing to say, I don't know, they're not used to that because they've met a lot of fun uh fundies, right?
15:11
SPEAKER_05: Religious fundamentalists that are that are like, no, this is what it is, and you're wrong if you don't agree with me, and you know, you're a heretic.
15:18
SPEAKER_05: And we throw that word around so much it's lost its meaning.
15:21
SPEAKER_05: So um, yeah, so yeah, it's it's it's been an it's been a fun ride, but a humbling one.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so true.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, we definitely it is hard to say, I don't know.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm getting better at that myself.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I feel like sometimes we want it to be.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean I'm just like, I don't know.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even know if that's in the Bible.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have no idea.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not a pastor.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: I say that like all the time.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a pastor.
15:48
SPEAKER_05: Well, it's a Bible that changed my mind on these things.
15:51
SPEAKER_05: Like in the in the episodes where I started talking about ghosts and spirits and things, um, it was the Bible itself that changed my view, but then I needed to find out, well, then then how did how did they reconcile these these things?
16:04
SPEAKER_05: Um, because clearly all these authors in the Bible knew these terms and knew of these ideas, and it didn't rob them of their faith, it didn't shipwreck their faith.
16:14
SPEAKER_05: So, well, how was that possible for them to reconcile these things?
16:17
SPEAKER_05: And it was, it was, you know, the the the more I dig or dug into these things, the more it was like, oh, okay, cool, you know.
16:24
SPEAKER_05: And I tell people, especially in my current episodes, it's like, look, you don't have to agree with me on everything.
16:29
SPEAKER_05: By the by the end of the episode, you're you're free to disagree.
16:32
SPEAKER_05: But if but if somebody does disagree with me, I hope they have a good reason to do so.
16:36
SPEAKER_05: I hope they have a good biblical reason to do so, and not just, well, that's stupid, and then it's just it's nonsense.
16:41
SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, well, I I'm not for you then anyway, you know.
16:45
SPEAKER_05: So right.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: And you just kind of like weed out those listeners that are just gonna argue or you know, Christians love to argue with each other, it's amazing.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Girl, yes.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: It's oh my gosh, what's happening right now?
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, just today.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: This is gonna get this is super like Christian-y.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but like I'm gonna lose like 50% of my audience.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: But like you know, Brandon Lake, right?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: You like the Christian worship singer, whatever.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: People people have opinions on like elevation and all that stuff and whatever.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: But like he there's a clip that's going around where he was talking about worship, and I'm gonna totally just like botch it and take it out of context.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: But it was just like something about how you kind of like not watering down, but how we have to make the experience for everybody, like especially the non-believer.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: So people just like took that clip, it's from a podcast.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even, I'm never even gonna listen to it.
17:38
SPEAKER_04: It's like exactly what you're talking about.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm talking about?
17:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like a 15-second clip, and you know, he's talking about it.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know what?
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Here's the deal.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Over a hundred thousand people last year at his concerts raised their hand and got and got saved and took like said yes to Jesus.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: So are you doing that while you're just tearing apart whatever, not even his theology?
18:03
SPEAKER_01: He's talking about like, I mean, come on.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: I know people get like all crazy about modern worship and stuff like that.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't have skin in the game because I don't remember what it was back then because I wasn't listening.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: I was making fun of Christians when, you know, he was probably coming up.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I was a total non-believer and thought that if you were at a Christian concert, you were a sheep anyway.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where God took me.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: And I actually fell in love with God at worship, like at church.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm like in worship and production ministry.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: And it is kind of to make people more open and you're creating an atmosphere and all that stuff.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: But I'm just like, okay, whatever you think as a Christian, the people that are not Christians that are getting a hold of this content, it's just another reason that Christians are stupid and they're making fun of each other.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Like we look bad.
18:53
SPEAKER_05: Yes, no, I agree from the outside looking in, it does it it misrepresents the Lord and we argue over some of the silliest things.
19:01
SPEAKER_05: Uh I mean, uh I did an episode of the Man Eating Toaster on Marie Solo Kiotis.
19:06
SPEAKER_05: She was a Greek Orthodox nun who was acting who was also a serial killer.
19:10
SPEAKER_05: She killed like over 100 women, and so uh her whole little um convent that she was a part of was they split over a calendar over the accounting of days.
19:24
SPEAKER_05: Like there was this massive schism in the Eastern Orthodox Church over the calendar that was going to be used.
19:30
SPEAKER_05: And it's like in that episode, I'm like, Christians, we'll fight over anything.
19:33
SPEAKER_05: We really will.
19:34
SPEAKER_05: And you know, and Brandon Lake uh he he uh made made that comment that he's being raped over the coals for, and and I agree with you that his his music has impacted hundreds of thousands of people.
19:47
SPEAKER_05: Um God uses broken people.
19:50
SPEAKER_05: Why?
19:51
SPEAKER_05: Because that's all he has available to him.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:54
SPEAKER_05: At the end of the day, that's it.
19:56
SPEAKER_05: That's all he has available to him is a bunch of broken people.
19:59
SPEAKER_05: And I just I can't wait, and this is gonna sound awful, but I can't wait for some of those, you know, people that rush to the comment sections of everything to rake him over the coals.
20:09
SPEAKER_05: I can't wait for the moment where they misspeak or they say something that uh a bunch of people disagree with, and now now they're being scrutinized in the same way.
20:20
SPEAKER_05: It's uh it's not a good time.
20:22
SPEAKER_05: It's not a good time, and people have never experienced it, so they can so easily rip someone apart that they don't know.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: It's not a it you're absolutely right.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I that's kind of my whole thing, and I think kind of where I am with like this podcast, like where I'm trying to like build community with like more podcasters and stuff like that, um, and just have these conversations because I don't know, and this kind of this is kind of gonna get where the whole Ghostbusters thing is for me, because like when I started, you know, looking at different content and stuff like that, and I after I kind of found the Lord and everything and got rid of all of that religiosity, when I I looked at Ghostbusters in a really different light because I was like, well, wait a second, they actually have a really good point because yeah, it's it's really weird right now.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know what it is, and I have this conversation all the time.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say, because I have no idea of that it's that time.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: We're definitely in a really interesting season, I think, for sure.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: You've got like all of this disclosure, you've got all of these people seeing these things.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: So in my mind, I always would keep quoting um remember the Barton Ghostbusters too when they come up from the the river of slime and they find Vanckman in the like fancy hotel restaurant, and they're just like covered in crap, and they're just like, We found it, we found it.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Guys, guys, you're scaring the straits.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's me.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: That's me.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: That's how I feel right now because I'm I'm scaring the straits at church.
21:59
unknown: Right.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm freaking out my paranormal friends because I'm like, guys, I don't know, but I think Jesus might be coming up soon.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: It's getting weird.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: But it's like, it's a really, really interesting time.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I just kind of I looked at I started looking at Ghostbusters really differently.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: Cause I'm just like, God, they are really what they're talking about is spiritual warfare.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And people are talking about that term that are not even in, that aren't even Christians.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: They're they're understanding like spiritual warfare has gotten out of like our context and it's like all over because now it's like the the language, we can understand that language, you know.
22:41
SPEAKER_05: And we should be able to speak to those things, but those that stay closer to the Bible have kind of shunned the supernatural stuff, whereas some of the false teachers that are heavy into deliverance type ministries, um, they they will then claim the flag, you know, put their flag and it's oh, we're the experts on this.
23:00
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, yeah, oh man, okay, you know, and you got new agers especially that love to kind of borrow from the Christian language and repurpose it and and oh, we believe in Jesus too, and we pray that he would cover us in light, you know, and it's like, um, no, he's not a resource for you to use, he's Lord.
23:19
SPEAKER_05: And with you flirting with those things, you know, he's he's not bathing you in light, he's calling you to repentance, but you know, with the oh no, those that's like the really funny thing, because like I I mean, my I don't know, my journey isn't just wild.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: It went, it was like, you know, no belief, atheism, uh occult, witchcraft, new age, all that stuff.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: So the Christ consciousness for me at that time, like God used all talking about broken things and things that probab that are false too.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Like He'll use that because He used that for me because I came from a place where if you talk to me, if you even said Jesus, I wanted my heart wanted to punch you in the face.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Like I was so my heart was so filled with hatred for him.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And it was just really, I was really angry at God.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: So for me, just to even hear people talk about it, it was an instant turn, like my ears were deaf.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Forget it.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But so as it kind of my heart got softened by, and now someone's gonna be, you know, crying in the comments, but I don't care.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, some my heart was softened by Christ consciousness because I could hear the word Christ, I could hear the name of Christ.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't correct, it's not biblical, it's not the actual true Jesus, but it softened my heart enough to be able to kind of go all the way around and be able to experience him in a true way.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: Because for me, it had to be experiential.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: That was just kind of how.
24:53
SPEAKER_05: No, I understand.
24:54
SPEAKER_05: For me, I uh I had a near-death experience, not like an NDE where my spirit came out of my body kind of thing, but I was run over by a truck.
25:04
SPEAKER_05: I was 17 and a truck ran over me, destroyed my bike, I had tire tracks on my shirt, but I didn't have a bump, bruise, or scratch.
25:11
SPEAKER_05: So I had this encounter where, you know, I uh I had I wouldn't have believed it, but I had people who were pulling over to the side of the road and running over, calling 911 saying, you know, you need to lie down.
25:22
SPEAKER_05: And I said, Lie down, how am I gonna get home?
25:24
SPEAKER_05: My bike's a wreck.
25:25
SPEAKER_05: And they said, Young man, uh, people who get ran over need to lie down.
25:29
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, excuse me, what?
25:31
SPEAKER_05: You know, they're like, Yeah, we're calling the the paramedics, and you know, I I get taken to the hospital, the emergency room, doctors and nurses are all checking me out, you know, and they're jokingly saying, Oh, you must be Superman.
25:42
SPEAKER_05: And I'm thinking, uh, this big back don't even work out.
25:45
SPEAKER_05: So I don't know, I don't know what what they're talking about because I knew it wasn't me.
25:49
SPEAKER_05: Um, and my grandmother was the only sincere believer in my life at the time.
25:53
SPEAKER_05: And I remember when she came in crying, you know, saw that I was okay, I was like, I need to go to church with you on Sunday.
25:59
SPEAKER_05: And she was like, Done.
26:01
SPEAKER_05: And and I started going to church with her, and they had just started a series in the book of Romans, you know, which is the most systematic explanation of the gospel in all the Bible.
26:08
SPEAKER_05: So I'm I'm hearing now I had side note, sidebar, I lived in Saudi Arabia for a while, and while I was over there, I was exposed to Islam, especially.
26:18
SPEAKER_05: But the school that I was going to, I had Hindus around me, I had Buddhists around me, I had Muslims around me, uh, no Christians.
26:25
SPEAKER_05: But when I got back to the States and I have this, you know, I'm run over and I'm in the hospital room staring up at this white light.
26:31
SPEAKER_05: It wasn't heaven, it was the obnoxious ER light, but I'm staring at the and I just knew it was Ruth, my grandmother, her name is Ruth, that it was Ruth's Jesus that spared me.
26:40
SPEAKER_05: I didn't know much, but I knew that it was him, and I needed to know why, because my life up to that point, I thought he didn't care.
26:46
SPEAKER_05: I I was more agnostic.
26:47
SPEAKER_05: I wasn't an atheist, but I was super agnostic.
26:50
SPEAKER_05: I thought, like, well, I don't even think agnostic is the right, I was more deist.
26:54
SPEAKER_05: Like I knew God was there, but I saw him uh like Thomas Jefferson did.
26:58
SPEAKER_05: I saw him like, okay, he's the divine clockmaker.
27:00
SPEAKER_05: He made everything, he put the clock up, and now he just watches it tick.
27:04
SPEAKER_05: And every once in a while, maybe he'll wind it up a little bit.
27:06
SPEAKER_05: But I thought he was very indifferent to my life, my situation, and to the world.
27:10
SPEAKER_05: And when he spared me that day, he challenged my notion of him.
27:14
SPEAKER_05: And then when I started going to church, and we're going through the book of Romans, and I'm like, oh, you know, like all these other religions, they say do, do, do, do, and then you come to Christianity and it says, it is done.
27:26
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, I need to hear that.
27:27
SPEAKER_05: Because when it was like Islam said, you know, be a good Muslim, you know, and it's like, well, but I can't even be a good person because I'm a mess and and I loved my sin.
27:36
SPEAKER_05: Um, so yeah, it it was it, I eventually, you know, I I was so unchurched.
27:41
SPEAKER_05: Um I'm hanging out with my grandmother one night on a Saturday.
27:44
SPEAKER_05: Um, and I said, Grandma, how do you know when it's your turn?
27:47
SPEAKER_05: And she goes, Honey, your turn for what?
27:49
SPEAKER_05: What do you mean?
27:49
SPEAKER_05: I said, Your turn to go down, you know, because at the end of every Bible study, Pastor invites people up, and I don't know what, you know, who why is he inviting them?
27:56
SPEAKER_05: And she's honey, that's an altar call.
27:58
SPEAKER_05: He's you know, he's asking people if they want to give their life to the Lord.
28:01
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Oh, well, that's how it works, okay.
28:04
SPEAKER_05: And I remember I don't remember what the sermon was about because I'm thinking in the back of my head, my knees bouncing the whole time.
28:09
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I'm already sold on it.
28:10
SPEAKER_05: Just I'm waiting for him to shut up so I can run down there and say, I want to give my life to the Lord.
28:15
SPEAKER_05: You know, so that's I I had uh I had to experience something as well, I think, and it it challenged my idea of who God was.
28:24
SPEAKER_05: And um, yeah, it it changed everything.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
28:31
SPEAKER_05: It is I agree, I agree.
28:33
SPEAKER_05: And and what's so funny is you had shared, uh, you know, when you got saved, going through this uh strange season of just extremism and and your approach to things, like, okay, well, if I'm a Christian now, you kind of had like a caricature of what a Christian was in your mind that was like, well, I have to stop all of this.
28:55
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, okay, hold on.
28:57
SPEAKER_05: As the Holy Spirit works, is like, you know, some of that's not some of that's not inherently evil, right?
29:03
SPEAKER_05: So, so tone it down a little bit, you know, and and I I went through the exact same thing.
29:07
SPEAKER_05: I remember I had uh over 400 CDs.
29:11
SPEAKER_05: I was big into music, I always been big into music, and I had gone to some Christian conference and came home and I was just feeling super sinful.
29:18
SPEAKER_05: And well, like I just was like, I'm horrible.
29:21
SPEAKER_05: And I remember I had these 400 CDs, and I had a guy who was there with me, and and we literally took hammers and started smashing all of them.
29:30
SPEAKER_05: And we were like, Well, yeah, we definitely don't can't have any of this paganism up in here, so we're smashing these pieces.
29:36
SPEAKER_05: And you know, now granted, some of that stuff was trash.
29:39
SPEAKER_05: I mean, a lot of them big into hip-hop, and it it was glorifying a lot of the stuff that uh put my savior on the cross.
29:45
SPEAKER_05: So some of that should have should have been smashed, right?
29:48
SPEAKER_05: But some of it was just like, you know, if somebody wants to sing John Denver, you know, hey me hold country, you know, like I I don't I don't think they're going to hell for listening to John Denver.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: John Denver is of the Lord.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't care what you say.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Is my is my mic sounding really weird to you?
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Not on my end, no.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, it must be something on mine.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: No, John Denver, are you kidding me?
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Country row, take me home, right?
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Exalting God's creation.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: How dare you dare you, sir.
30:16
SPEAKER_05: You go through this thing of thinking like you're you're told anything secular, and even if nobody told you it, I eventually did wind up in a church where it's like anything that was secular was demonic, and you know, it just made me hyper religious.
30:31
SPEAKER_05: And um, you know, now I've the pendulum swung in the other direction for a while, and then you know, now it hopefully is somewhere in the middle.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Um that's exactly how I describe it as well.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really is.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: It almost and it it was I was so off balance for a while.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: And even I think it was just like the Holy Spirit having to really work that out of me because I I did I had this, I always like to say I just I got sold a really bad image of the character of God.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Like it was just really, really because that's what you're sold, right?
31:04
SPEAKER_01: That's why people that's what kept me away.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's what makes me, you know, made me think like, oh, I could never be good enough for this God.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: I have to be cleaned up before I can go to church, or I have to do, you know, the church is gonna burn down.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like it's it's it doesn't, it doesn't at all.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't, it it's it is not gonna burn down, and you're not the worst person to walk in there, like but we get sold that all the time.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I don't know why, but we just I mean, well, I know it's just a total it's a total plan of the enemy because that's obviously like just and it doesn't take much because then humans will just do it because we'd like to do that in the comments and make and yell at brain and leg.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: So exactly great job.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: We do it ourselves, he doesn't need to really work, he's not sitting there working a lot, like yeah.
31:51
SPEAKER_05: Some of it's Satan, and some of it we didn't need any help.
31:54
SPEAKER_05: We we were doing a fine job messing things up all on our own.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're so good at that.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
31:59
SPEAKER_05: Uh for sure.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny because like I did the same thing with my CDs.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, I didn't I had to because I listened to like legit satanic black metal, and it was like, yeah, okay.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: You were just uh just singing all this stuff in Norwegian, and it's just like Satan worship.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: So you should probably get rid of those items for your right and discernment has to be developed, I think.
32:26
SPEAKER_05: So there are there are certain things that it's like, oh, this is this is permissible.
32:32
SPEAKER_05: And Paul even said all things are permissible, not all things are beneficial.
32:35
SPEAKER_05: You know, so so that there they're that's such a huge passage on Christian liberty that that we we make people not want to get saved because they think the answer to everything is no, and my life is gonna be I'm gonna have to be a hermit and celibate and hide in a corner in a you know in my room because all fun will end when I meet Jesus.
32:56
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, no, Jesus is fun.
32:59
SPEAKER_05: And he made all these things to be enjoyed.
33:03
SPEAKER_05: It's like, go read the Psalms, go, go even read, you know, Ecclesiastes, as depressing as it can be.
33:08
SPEAKER_05: You know, Solomon towards the end still was like, no, there these are great things that God has made, and and we we can enjoy them to his honor and glory.
33:17
SPEAKER_05: Um, but we have to have discernment that that all not not all things are gonna be beneficial, and some can be detrimental.
33:26
SPEAKER_05: So I recognize that.
33:28
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna push that away.
33:29
SPEAKER_05: You know, even my views on uh and I don't know where where you stand on this, but even my views on some horror uh media has changed over time because I I remember, you know, no, it's all evil, all demonic, but then it's like when you go through the Bible, there is some scary stuff in there.
33:48
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm teaching revelation of my church on on Wednesdays and it's like yeah, there's some dark imagery found on the prophets, found in revelation and uh in eschatological literature.
33:57
SPEAKER_05: So it's like, no, uh, I mean, sometimes God has to grab a hold of you in a in a in a different way.
34:04
SPEAKER_05: And I I use the exorcist as an example.
34:06
SPEAKER_05: I've only seen that movie one time.
34:08
SPEAKER_05: I was not a believer, it scared the mess out of me.
34:12
SPEAKER_05: I was terrified.
34:13
SPEAKER_05: I had some uh I was not a believer, and I had some buddies come over that said, You gotta watch this movie, and I'm like, oh, I heard about that movie.
34:19
SPEAKER_05: I don't think they're like, come on, don't be a wuss.
34:22
SPEAKER_05: And I sit down and I I watch this movie with the I'm I'm probably you know 15, 16 at the time, and I watched this movie with them, and it freaked me out.
34:31
SPEAKER_05: And that night I fell asleep in my bed, and my buddies fell asleep on the floor around the bed.
34:38
SPEAKER_05: Well, I'm like dozing in and out of sleep, and these jokers go up underneath the bed.
34:42
SPEAKER_05: Oh, geez, and they started jumping it up and down, and I'm screaming, I'm screaming, and then I it goes quiet, and I hear I hear laughing under the bed.
34:54
SPEAKER_05: So I go in my closet and I get an airsoft gun and I went Tony Montana on on the and I started shooting them under the bed, and now they're the so it was this this oh my god, a stupid teenager moment.
35:05
SPEAKER_05: Um, but that movie like scared the mess out of me.
35:09
SPEAKER_05: And I did an episode on that movie, and when that movie came out, after people saw it, churches were full, just like after 9-11, if not more so.
35:22
SPEAKER_05: People, you know, and I'm not this is not me condoning it.
35:24
SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying go watch the exorcism, it'll reignite your faith, you know.
35:27
SPEAKER_05: That's not what I'm saying.
35:29
SPEAKER_05: But I'm saying for these, for non-believers, they have it is based on a true story.
35:34
SPEAKER_05: It was a boy, not a girl, but it was it was based on a true story.
35:38
SPEAKER_05: And when people saw that in that raw way, they're like, just like in Ephesus in the book of Acts, when they saw, you know, the sons of Skeva get rocked by that one demon-possessed man, he beat up seven dudes all by himself, and they left it says bloody and naked.
35:54
SPEAKER_05: The whole city of Ephesus was shook by that imagery.
35:57
SPEAKER_05: And they went in their house and they're getting all their occultic items and statues to Diana, and they're burning them in the streets.
36:03
SPEAKER_05: Like, so so sometimes that that fearful imagery can very much be used to remind you that the world is uh is it's not all material, and uh not all the spiritual stuff out there is your friend.
36:17
SPEAKER_05: Some of it's malevolent, that it's very malevolent.
36:20
SPEAKER_05: And um, when you're brought to terms with that, with that real evil, you're reminded that there is also real good, and you want to run to the good when you're when you're shown that real evil.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: So oh, for sure.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: We I I just had this conversation a couple weeks ago, and I brought it up on somewhere.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: I was talking to my husband at first.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about Hellraiser.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: So I grew up on horror.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, I loved horror.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Um just anything dark.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: I was definitely like a big goth kid.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I loved all of that stuff, and there's still time, I mean, I still do.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I was listening to the cure the other day, and I was like, man, this just makes me feel and it's nice to feel sadness sometimes.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, just like in Psalms.
37:05
SPEAKER_04: Read Ecclesiastes, read the Psalms.
37:07
SPEAKER_04: It's there, yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Just David was such a whiny goth kid.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anybody says.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, some people like to say he's emo.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, emo.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: But no, uh-no, I'm claiming him as goth, and you can you can fight me on that now.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: He's a ginger goth, all right.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: He's just a ginger goth.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: It makes different sense.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: Hashtag David is ginger goth.
37:25
SPEAKER_04: There we go.
37:26
SPEAKER_04: That'll be in the comments, I'm sure, too.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Somewhere out there, somebody is developing a Nephilim uh bloodline attraction to that.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: So we're not even gonna, I'm not doing that.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, yes.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: But um, but anyway, we were having this conversation about Hellraiser, and I was like, you know what?
37:42
SPEAKER_01: I I've heard some accounts where people are talking, I can't remember exactly where it was, but I heard this story of somebody describing, oh, I know what it was.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: We were talking about going.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a there's a book, it's all about these um near-death experiences.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you're familiar with the um the Christian Theological Dark Web podcast.
38:07
SPEAKER_04: I've I've heard the name.
38:08
SPEAKER_04: I haven't heard the podcast, but I've heard the name.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: They're fantastic.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: So Ricky and Shelly, um, we're I do like some collabs with them uh on fellow with Fellowship of the Fringe, the like kind of second podcast that I'm sort of doing.
38:19
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, so they're fantastic.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: We they had on a guy who wrote a book about near-death experiences.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Years and years and years of just collecting data and all of these experiences.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, the ones that were why just as wild as the good ones were the ones like where they went to the good place, they went to heaven, were the ones where people went to hell and got, you know, they did.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they just they saw that's what they experienced.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: This one guy, he was telling something, like when I was listening to it, I was like, oh my gosh, this makes me feel so sick.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of Hellraiser.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, if I don't know if you're familiar with that movie, but it is just gut-wrenching horror because of the evil and just the lack of God's presence.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's kind of how I can look at it now.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: So I was talking to my husband about it, and I was like, it's so crazy because when Clive Barker wrote that book, I read the book, like I and I loved horror literature too, like, and I still still do, like, I have to be careful.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: But when he wrote that book, I mean, he had to have known something.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not writing about the truth and you're writing about the counterfeit, then you must have had some experience with that counterfeit.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's no way that you could have possibly either he did research on these like near-death experiences, because the more that I kind of read, I was like, this is it's it's crazy what they're explaining.
39:51
SPEAKER_05: Like, so yeah, well, even wild.
39:54
SPEAKER_05: And even tying it back to to the Ghostbusters stuff, Dan Aykroyd, you know, Ray stance in the movie.
40:00
SPEAKER_05: Well, his father, grandfather, and and really the great grandfather was was the major influence on the family, but they were all into this stuff, they were all into the occult and into uh I didn't know that.
40:14
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, yeah.
40:15
SPEAKER_05: I have a book, it's it's somewhere.
40:16
SPEAKER_05: I just I just recently got it.
40:18
SPEAKER_05: I don't know where it is, but um I'll I'll I'll send it to you later.
40:22
SPEAKER_05: But it it was written by him, and it he's so passionate about these things because uh of his grandfather, and they were, you know, kind of real life paranormal investigators.
40:32
SPEAKER_05: And and I I'm currently trying to look for opportunities because that's big up here, um but it's but it's godless.
40:38
SPEAKER_05: There's no Christ involved in it.
40:40
SPEAKER_05: So I want to, I'm prayerfully looking into ways of connecting with some of these people for the purpose of bridge building and ultimately evangelism, to say, like, hey, I agree with you that a lot of these things that you're encountering are very real, but but they're just maybe not what you think that they are, and and that there is objective truth, that Christ is the truth, the way, the life, and will shed a ton of light on this stuff.
41:08
SPEAKER_05: So, you know, that they're so turned off by Christians who for so long in the West especially have just written it all off as, oh, it's all nonsense, or or uh on uh Brandon on the Unrefined Podcast, he likes to say, you know, the Oh, he's great.
41:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he's wonderful.
41:22
SPEAKER_05: The the the the devil in the gaps.
41:24
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, blame anything you don't understand on the devil and just move on.
41:27
SPEAKER_05: Don't question any further.
41:29
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think uh Chief Wigham from The Simpsons, move along, nothing to see, you know.
41:33
SPEAKER_05: It's like just move along.
41:34
SPEAKER_05: It must be a demon.
41:35
SPEAKER_05: Don't don't think too hard about it.
41:36
SPEAKER_05: It's like, no, Dr.
41:37
SPEAKER_05: Heiser used to say, if it's weird, it's important.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:41
SPEAKER_05: Then why did he include it, right?
41:43
SPEAKER_05: If 2 Timothy 3.16 is true that all scripture is God breathed and profitable, then so is that weird stuff.
41:50
SPEAKER_05: And it's our job to find out why it's in there if we're gonna be good students of the word.
41:55
SPEAKER_05: So, you know, that weird stuff is important, and it's the weird stuff that's helping me to build bridges, and I want to build more tangible ones locally.
42:03
SPEAKER_05: Um, with I there there's a paranormal investigation group that that I just found recently that's that's kind of in my general part of Washington.
42:12
SPEAKER_05: So I'm I'm gonna see about building uh a relationship with with them.
42:17
SPEAKER_05: Um they might be as you once were at the thought of Jesus like, oh you must be one of them.
42:22
SPEAKER_05: No, and it's like so, so you know, I I don't I don't know if it'll go anywhere at all, but but I I I know that with the things that I deal with on the podcast and with the open-mindedness that I try to approach some of these things, it's like, look, I'm not just saying all these people are lying.
42:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm just saying that it might be something different than what you think, you know.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's such a really good point.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of where I I found myself, you know, with like, you know, not just Ghostbusters, but like ghost, you know, encounters.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of where the heart of this podcast, like my podcast started, where I was like, well, well, wait a second, people are still encountering these things, so they have to be encountering something.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: And you have people that are going out and looking for things and getting readings, they're getting like the Ghostbusters did, you know, they're getting this physical data, this evidence.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: And then you can go back and look at you know, other hot spots or other supernatural things that are happening in the area.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: People are seeing dogman, people are seeing aliens, like all of this stuff is happening.
43:23
SPEAKER_05: So my connected for me.
43:26
SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry, it's all connected.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: You're absolutely right.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: That's why I started the website because I was like, well, I want to get this encounter map up, which I never I say this every web like episode, and I never do anything with it because my life is just filled with a 10-year-old.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, the idea of having a database, which I have the framework for of people just sending in their encounters, I don't care what kind of encounter it is.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you went down to like the haunted house.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: I want to map that because then other people can map it and we can kind of see well, wait a second, this is a really big hotspot.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: What's going on in this?
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Area.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Do I have intercessors that might be able to discern a principality?
44:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Like things like that.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Like you can kind of go into that direction of things.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: So, but it's just um it's crazy because I get like wanting the jump scares.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I get wanting to like be like, you know, it's spooky season and you want to feel scared and stuff, but then I kind of take it to the next level of like, well, what do I do with that?
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, the house is haunted.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, that sucks.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we're just gonna we're just gonna leave it haunted forever.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do we, you know, what does that mean?
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we how do we help that?
44:33
SPEAKER_05: Well, it's so cool that you brought that up, right?
44:35
SPEAKER_05: Because here here's here's to throw a monkey wrench in it, because I've thought these same things, and I love that your mind works like that, because my that's where mine is going as I talk about these things on the show.
44:44
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, what is the what is the application part?
44:47
SPEAKER_05: Because when we study the Bible, kind of that final step and Bible study is application.
44:51
SPEAKER_05: Well, as I bring the Bible to these topics, what's that last step?
44:55
SPEAKER_05: Now, now, in the example of like a haunted house, if it's not a famous one, if it is a family having an encounter, maybe like the the the conjuring family, right?
45:05
SPEAKER_05: And and and truly wanting to be delivered.
45:08
SPEAKER_05: Um, and I and I use that term very loosely because, again, I'm not a fan of traditional deliverance ministry, but I do believe in demonic possession, but I do believe that that these entities can just as much inhabit a location as they can a person.
45:23
SPEAKER_05: And that's something I theologically develop on my show.
45:26
SPEAKER_05: So um I believe they can be drawn to a place for various reasons.
45:30
SPEAKER_05: Now what one thing that, again, I'm prayerfully considering like what does that look like for me, is like, okay, well, do we go to these places and we and we pray over them and and we we we attempt to cast out these things.
45:44
SPEAKER_05: Now, here here's the kicker though, in the monkey wrench that I was talking about.
45:47
SPEAKER_05: Let's say that you are like the Warrens, or you are somebody who is benefiting from if everybody knows my house as the haunted house, that's tourism, right?
45:59
SPEAKER_05: It's like the it's like Pleasant Point uh or Point Pleasant, Maryland, has the Mothman, and they're never gonna want to explain him away.
46:08
SPEAKER_05: Oh, Virginia, thank you, thank you.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
46:10
SPEAKER_05: Um no, I no, I appreciate that.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: So we have zero Mothman in Maryland, I guess.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: That's where I live.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: So we get we get nothing.
46:18
SPEAKER_05: So with Mothman, he is so profitable for Virginia that they're never gonna want a fully concrete answer, right?
46:27
SPEAKER_05: Because, well, they benefit.
46:29
SPEAKER_05: It's directing tourism, it's getting all these things.
46:32
SPEAKER_05: So there are some of the really big, well-known places that I don't think they want anyone to come out and deliver anything, if anything is even there, right?
46:41
SPEAKER_05: And and like the conjuring house, for example, I don't think anything is in that house anymore.
46:46
SPEAKER_05: Uh I I think it was attached, my my personal opinion in studying the case and what the warrant said, what the parents said, even Andre uh Andrea Perrin herself and kind of going through the stuff that she wrote on it.
46:57
SPEAKER_05: Um, I think it was more attached to the family than the house, because when they left, the house, like everyone that lived in the house after, has reported no problems, but the parents still reported having encounters after they left the house.
47:13
SPEAKER_05: So my answer is, well, it ain't the house.
47:15
SPEAKER_05: It was things that you guys invited with the help of the Warrens having seances and stuff.
47:20
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
47:20
SPEAKER_05: But but it's like I I I I I think in their case, for example, it wasn't the house, it was the people they inviting those things in.
47:28
SPEAKER_05: But but if it does bring in any kind of profit, then they're not gonna want it to be cleansed, if you will, or or cleared out of anything.
47:37
SPEAKER_05: But for those that are normal, everyday men and women that um are having these strange encounters, and they are, because you they're all over the internet.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:51
SPEAKER_05: What do we do?
47:51
SPEAKER_05: How can we help those people?
47:53
SPEAKER_05: Now, what one final thought on that is um my my opinion as it pertains to casting anything out of anywhere, whether it be a person or a place, is Jesus said that if if something were to leave, if if if you're somebody's possessed and something gets cast out, if something or someone does not take its place, it says that they will go over waterless places and bring seven more life stronger than themselves, and they'll find it swept clean, and the state of that person, Jesus said, will be worse than the first, worse than it began.
48:27
SPEAKER_05: So when I talk to people and I've had conversations with people, it's like, look, I want to help you, but if you have no intention of surrendering your life to the Lordship of Christ, then what I what this will be of very little benefit to you, and actually it could be detrimental to you, because if if unless he comes in and occupies that space once occupied by this, you know, demon principality, whatever the case may be, it's it's it's like, well, I'm not doing you any favors.
48:58
SPEAKER_05: So I personally won't be involved in any kind of of exorcism or deliverance of any kind if that person says, Look, I don't want anything to do with Jesus, just get rid of this.
49:09
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, Yeah, well, it doesn't work like that though.
49:13
SPEAKER_05: He has to come in, um, just like Joshua coming into the Holy Land and and clearing it out of the evil influences, it's like, well, Yeshua, Jesus, has to come in and cleanse it of the unholy influences.
49:26
SPEAKER_05: And if you don't want him to come in there and clean house, then you're you're gonna be even worse than you started.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: So I find this really encouraging because what I'm seeing, and like I love like I love those guys on Unrefined.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Actually, so we were supposed to have a live show tonight with um Brandon Spain from Unrefined, and then um my friend, so my friends at the theological Christian Theological Dark Web.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: Like we were gonna have just a lot.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to do this, like it's called Fellowship of the Fringe, like where we just kind of sit and talk about this kind of stuff.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: My hope in prayer is that eventually it gets to a point where people are kind of like not calling in, but like in the chat, like with their experiences, so we can kind of like minister.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Because my whole point is the same thing.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: How do I minister to these people?
50:14
SPEAKER_01: People are having all of these experiences.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: It's one thing to just like shed a light on it and be like, oh, okay, well, that sounds like the hat man.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: Great.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: What do we do?
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Now what?
50:23
SPEAKER_01: What do we do?
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Because if we get back to that whole point of like Ghostbusters, you know, like why is it so why do you think we're so busy right now?
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, because we're in a really weird time.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: So how do we help those people that are eventually gonna be coming to Christ?
50:37
SPEAKER_01: Because there's nothing else that's gonna help.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, yeah, there's nothing else that's gonna help them.
50:42
SPEAKER_05: So it's it's it's awesome you say that because in there is a church uh in Roswell of all places, right?
50:48
SPEAKER_05: Uh that's a that's a hub for uh of course extraterrestrial stuff, right?
50:54
SPEAKER_05: And and I I'm of the opinion that you know the extraterrestrial phenomenon, they're not from other planets, they're they're extra-dimensional, not extraterrestrial.
51:02
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm convinced that they they are uh fallen heavenly creatures of some kind.
51:08
SPEAKER_05: And um in any case, the the pastors of this church in Roswell, there's a lot of uh, they get a lot of people coming saying, hey, what do I do?
51:20
SPEAKER_05: I've been I've been getting abducted by by these by these, they think they call the grays.
51:26
SPEAKER_05: I'm getting abducted by these things.
51:28
SPEAKER_05: It's you know, these people are coming bawling their eyes out.
51:31
SPEAKER_05: My life has been awful since I began having these encounters.
51:34
SPEAKER_05: What do I do?
51:35
SPEAKER_05: And what's so crazy is, you know, they would go to all these other places for answers, and and kind of the last ditch was, you know, they reach out to this pastor of this church, and they're like, Hey, what should I do?
51:48
SPEAKER_05: And they say, Well, the next time it happens, rebuke them in the name of Jesus.
51:53
SPEAKER_05: Say the name of Jesus and see what and they were like, Oh, that yeah, I'm I'm not a religious person, you know, I just need you to tell me, like, what do you think this is?
52:00
SPEAKER_05: He's like, I'm telling you what I think.
52:02
SPEAKER_05: I'm telling you what I think you should do.
52:03
SPEAKER_05: So it's like, if if you truly have tried it all and nothing else has worked, then what is it gonna kill you to try this the next time they show up to abduct you?
52:13
SPEAKER_05: And whether or not the abduction phenomenon is them actually leaving their physical, you know, and going somewhere else physically, I I don't know about that.
52:19
SPEAKER_05: I think it might be more mental, but I I'm I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
52:23
SPEAKER_05: But a lot of the abduction phenomenon, when you kind of read the descriptions and then you look at medieval uh uh demonic possession accounts, it's like, man, it's it there's a there's a lot of parallels between the two, the phenomenon.
52:36
SPEAKER_05: But they'll say, look, you tried everything else, rebuke it in the name of Jesus if you've really tried it all and you're that desperate.
52:42
SPEAKER_05: What is it gonna hurt?
52:43
SPEAKER_05: Well, this this poor this poor woman, she is having this encounter again again with this gray, and she's she's terrified, and she cries out in the name of Jesus, just like this pastor told her to say, and the thing fled in fear, and she is bawling again, but now tears of joy.
53:03
SPEAKER_05: And she goes back to that pastor and she says, I can't believe it worked.
53:07
SPEAKER_05: And it it challenged her whole paradigm, her whole worldview as far as what it was that was coming to her.
53:13
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, why did it flee in the name of Jesus?
53:15
SPEAKER_05: And that pastor is like, Oh, let me tell you why.
53:18
SPEAKER_05: And let me tell you how it can never happen again if you belong to Jesus, if you surrender to this Jesus who makes them flee, then they'll never be able to harm you in the same way again.
53:30
SPEAKER_05: And uh it changed her life.
53:32
SPEAKER_05: She's a believer now.
53:33
SPEAKER_05: So um there's uh it's a it's a Christian documentary that I'll I'll also I'll send you and I'll put it up on my socials as well, because uh it it was the first time I started to try and reconcile these things, because I was into all of these things before I got saved, and then I got saved and I wanted answers, and there was no blurry creatures, there was no, you know, uh, you know, there was nobody talking about these things, and I kind of was like, uh just just go read your Bible and and go pray, and that's just silliness.
53:59
SPEAKER_05: Don't worry about that.
54:00
SPEAKER_05: And it wasn't silly to me.
54:01
SPEAKER_05: It wasn't silly, and even like I grew up uh talking about these things with my dad and watching these things on TV with my dad.
54:08
SPEAKER_05: Like we we were a family that believed in uh these phenomena, um, but he wasn't walking with the Lord at the time.
54:14
SPEAKER_05: So, you know, to him we were we were mutually fascinated by these things, and it wasn't until I started encountering some of these podcasts that were connecting these dots and having these discussions.
54:25
SPEAKER_05: And it was it was Michael Heiser coming into my life, and then at the same time coming across Haunted Cosmos was the first uh uh paranormal related, you know, kind of fringe-related podcast that I heard Christians talking about, and I was like, oh wow, oh wow, is there more of this?
54:41
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was like being in a desert finding water, you know, and and I I found that there was all kinds of stuff, and then was just inspired to say, well, but maybe there's this little niche here that I can squeeze myself.
54:53
SPEAKER_05: Um I don't have guests, and I don't have a co-host, even though I I I have other characters that are making appearances now on the show.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you have co-hosts for sure.
55:03
SPEAKER_05: Yes, I do.
55:04
SPEAKER_05: I love doing that so much, like, oh my gosh, it's so stupid.
55:08
SPEAKER_05: But I always wanted to be a voice actor when I was a little boy.
55:11
SPEAKER_05: I love cartoons.
55:12
SPEAKER_05: I still love cartoons, and now I love anime too.
55:14
SPEAKER_05: But uh I always wanted to do voice acting, and and the fact that it's like, well, it it's my show.
55:21
SPEAKER_05: Like, I can't, why not try?
55:23
SPEAKER_05: And it was the um, it was the Annabelle.
55:25
SPEAKER_05: Have you watched the Annabelle or listened to the Annabelle episode?
55:28
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
55:29
SPEAKER_05: That was the I was like, I'm just gonna try a skit.
55:32
SPEAKER_05: And I had so much fun doing it, and everybody loved the every time I would chime in with that antagonistic voice, that ain't in the babble, you know, like that voice, everybody loved that voice.
55:43
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, well, what if I leaned into that a little bit?
55:47
SPEAKER_05: And and the inspiration for that was the the Y-Files.
55:50
SPEAKER_05: AJ over on the Y-Files has Heckelfish.
55:53
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Well, he has such an amazing production, he's not a believer, uh, but but he has this amazing production.
55:59
SPEAKER_05: And if he can get away with having a talking goldfish, I can have a fundamentalist, you know, oh my gosh, professor.
56:05
SPEAKER_05: And and he's actually based on a real person whom I will not say on here because I don't want to direct any online hate towards this individual, but it was somebody who was attacking Dr.
56:14
SPEAKER_05: Michael Heiser after his death.
56:16
SPEAKER_05: And and I was just so annoyed by this guy that you know that was kind of the antagonistic voice.
56:23
SPEAKER_01: That's the voice that you heard.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny.
56:25
SPEAKER_05: I grew up in the Bible belt too, so I'm a Texan, so it you know, it wasn't totally this guy, but it was this guy.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: The professor is the reason that people look at Jesus in a weird way.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Like that's the professor, exactly.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: So no, I I like I it's so funny because I I love your content because I can listen to it with my son.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: And I also love the fact that like now my son, I think I told you like on when I before I was in Instagram jail, I told you on a DM that like my my son now calls you the guy.
56:57
SPEAKER_01: The man who's who's yell uh yelling at the what did I say?
57:02
SPEAKER_01: He's like the man that's gonna hit the guy with the Bible.
57:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: Why is he gonna hit him with the Bible?
57:07
SPEAKER_01: Because I guess it is sound effect.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's a smack sound effect, and it's like that ain't in anime ain't in the babble, melee.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
57:15
SPEAKER_01: And then we like script that and we're both, and so then like wherever we're going, we're like, that ain't in the babble.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's hilarious.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: Poor Southerners' friends.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, guys.
57:24
SPEAKER_05: No, and I I tell people, I joke with them, I say, look, I'm a Texan, I'm allowed to do it, right?
57:28
SPEAKER_05: I can I and sometimes my southern accent will creep out.
57:32
SPEAKER_05: I don't, I don't have it all the time, but because I was so saturated in it for so long, every once in a while it it comes out in vol or involuntarily.
57:40
SPEAKER_05: But um, you know, I tell people it's like, look, I got nothing but love for the South.
57:44
SPEAKER_05: I love Texas.
57:45
SPEAKER_05: I was born in Texas.
57:46
SPEAKER_05: Uh most of my life was was was in San Antonio, Texas.
57:50
SPEAKER_05: So, you know, my uh in my heart, I'll always be a Texan, but uh yeah, I I there's nothing but love for for my Bible belt believers with a little bit of a southern draw.
57:59
SPEAKER_05: And even I I I have friends uh that listen to the show, uh, well, obviously Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters are from New York.
58:06
SPEAKER_05: So when I was trying to come up with another character, Janine Melnitz was actually the inspiration.
58:12
SPEAKER_05: I love Janine.
58:14
SPEAKER_05: And you know, that from the moment she answers her first phone, Ghostbusters, what do you want?
58:18
SPEAKER_05: You know, like that, I love that.
58:20
SPEAKER_05: And whenever I'm trying to get into the Vinny character, I I actually like I just think of Janine and then I take it up an octave.
58:28
SPEAKER_05: So it's like so funny.
58:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's so good, it's just such a good idea.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: Like it really, really is.
58:35
SPEAKER_05: It's been fun, it's been so much fun, and I and I so much fun.
58:38
SPEAKER_05: I I'm almost tempted, like, and I'm not gonna do it, but I'm tempted at times to go back and remove the first like two episodes, especially, because I was still finding myself.
58:49
SPEAKER_01: And if you Oh no, don't do that.
58:50
SPEAKER_05: And I'm not, I I'm not, but uh it it it is so different from the content that I have now.
58:56
SPEAKER_05: Whereas whereas those episodes early on were so heavy theologically that I know that they're they're not as they're not as open and inviting to the non-believers.
59:08
SPEAKER_05: So if I tell somebody about the show and they s they go in and they, you know, they're like, well, let's start at episode one.
59:15
SPEAKER_05: It's I I I kind of like, mm, I was, you know, but I just trust the Lord with it, you know, God, it's in your hands.
59:22
SPEAKER_05: So I I still had I still had fun.
59:25
SPEAKER_01: People are people will listen to that and then they'll just he'll he'll use it for sure.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I just love, I really love the space.
59:33
SPEAKER_01: Like this fringe space is so fascinating because we're getting a lot.
59:39
SPEAKER_01: So I just kind of I I want to get back to this whole like that church that's outside of Roswell, right?
59:44
SPEAKER_01: Because in my mind, that's how I see in my crazy mind.
59:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, I when you were telling that story, I just see this like this is terrible, but like a dystopian landscape of all this insanity that's happening.
59:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is it gonna look like?
59:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, if it looks like the way that Revelation unfolds everything, it's gonna look like Ghostbusters.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's gonna look like that.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's pretty accurate.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, really weird stuff coming down.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, what if it happens and it's wild and it just gets wilder and wilder and wilder, right?
1:00:16
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have these like dystopian camps of like, oh, here's a little tent of hope, you know?
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: And and that's just kind of how I see it.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_05: Well, and depending on one's eschatological views, that that's that's eschatology has always been a dividing factor in Christian circles, and I think it will continue to be until the Lord comes for his people, right?
1:00:35
SPEAKER_01: So uh, but but like Define the term, because I don't know exactly who my audience is.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm assuming they're still they're still listening because I keep talking about Jesus.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_01: So I'm assuming that some of them are Christians, but just go ahead.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_05: Sure.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_05: So eschatology is the study of end things.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_05: Uh and so within eschatology, Christian eschatology, there are a variety of views of the end, of how it's all going to play out.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_05: Some some see the end as doing like this, and the church growing and growing in influence and then taking over the world for Christ, and then he comes to this perfect thing, and and I don't hold to those views, and I think every time I watch the news, uh everything speaks to the contrary, in my opinion.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_05: But but I have some Christian brothers whom I love who think, you know, it's like, yeah, but but this is how how we view the end coming.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_05: And then there are those that see it as, yeah, I'm a Calvary Chapel pastor and we're big into eschatology, and we see it as like, no, 2 Timothy chapter 3 is things are going to get gradually worse and worse and worse and worse, and then God, I believe, is going to remove his people before carrying out divine judgment on the world, right?
1:01:46
SPEAKER_05: Divine wrath on the world via the tribulation and the last seven years of human history.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_05: And so during that seven years, you're right, Ghostbusters has, you know, is is instead of this big old portal opening up in the sky and things pouring in, it's actually gonna open up in the ground.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_05: And we're told that there is gonna be these beings that are flooding out and that they're gonna torment people, you know, they they're described as like crickets with scorpion tails.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_05: It's really a crazy description, but that as they inflict pain upon people, it's gonna be so bad that people are gonna want to die but aren't gonna be able to.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_05: And and another, you know, Bill Murray movie, uh Groundhog Day.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_05: It's going to be like a Groundhog Day where people are, you know, it's it's not gonna be a pretty thing.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_05: And so I also see the podcast uh in these episodes that are going out into the ether.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_05: I I see them as, you know, whoever is, in my opinion, that I left behind during that, it's like, man, I'm gonna have all these filed away, all these, you know, it's like, here's some answers to some of the crazy things that you're seeing unfolding right now, you know.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_05: And and those are, you know, those are my eschatological views.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_05: I don't uh I know that there is a variety of views on the end times and how it's all gonna come to an end, but I I I definitely think like like you, as far as like the Ghostbusters is concerned, there's some things that I think they got real close to.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_05: And even like in the sequel that every everyone kind of poops on, I like the sequel.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_05: I like I like the only Ghostbusters movie I'm not crazy about was the reboot.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't like that.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_01: I didn't like that one at all.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_05: But but even the idea that all of this negative energy was you know creating this the slime under the city, you know, am I saying that it's gonna create this this this slime?
1:03:31
SPEAKER_05: No, but I do think that whenever there is, and I talk about my the episode that I that I have coming out next week is actually gonna be talking about uh Vietnam.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_05: And I don't know if you're familiar with the uh alleged red night vision goggles that some say uh were experimental that allowed people to see into the spirit world.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_05: Right?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: And I heard about that, but I've never done any digging.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I did a lot of digging.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_05: I did a lot of digging.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_05: So so uh it's it's it's gonna it's it's an I'm excited about the episode.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_05: Um uh I'm sure some people are gonna are gonna be real excited.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_05: Some might be disappointed with some of the research, some of the conclusions that I that I came to in doing this deep dive on this topic.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_05: But uh I talk about Vietnam.
1:04:17
SPEAKER_05: There was so many awful things done there before, during, and after that, you know, even if you don't buy into the whole red night vision goggles, allowing them to see into the spirit world, I definitely think that when you have that much malice and bloodshed and awfulness, that it draws the powers of darkness like flies to a corpse.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_05: And that's another thing that I talk about in those ghosts and the spirit realm episodes early on, like you know, four, five, and six.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_05: And I go to passages from Isaiah and Jeremiah where where it talks about Babylon after God judges Babylon and how it will be uh a haunt of jackals, and I go through all those terms in Hebrew that it's like those are not benign animals, these are supernatural beings that flood this era, this area.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_05: And so uh I think there is a biblical precedent to display, like, no, when you have this much nastiness in a place, I do think it can draw.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_05: Uh now, did these soldiers and Nam, did they see those things?
1:05:20
SPEAKER_05: Um, perhaps they did.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_05: Perhaps they did.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_05: I think it's totally within the realm of possibility and kind of spoiling the episode a little bit.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_05: I I like to go to 2 Kings a lot because in 2 Kings you have Elisha, and you have the the Syrian army is around him.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_05: He and his servant are in his little house in Dothan, and the Syrian king says, Go get him, bring him to me, because I'm sick of him, you know, uh uh telling, getting intel from his God and spoiling my war plans, right?
1:05:47
SPEAKER_05: So he sends the army, they encamp around his house, and the servant wakes up early and he peeks out and he freaks out because he he says, Look, the art these armies have surrounded us, and he says, Don't worry, the ones that are with us are greater than the ones that are with them.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_05: And he prays, he says, God, open his eyes.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_05: And the servant, he opens, God opens his eyes and he sees chariots of fire in the mountains surrounding this army.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_05: And then God, or then he prays to God and says, Can you blind these this army?
1:06:13
SPEAKER_05: And he blinds all of them.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_05: But but in that moment, the servant is allowed to see past the veil and see this this supernatural reality unfold.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, I think our worlds overlap in a way that we don't fully understand or comprehend.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_05: Um and I think there are certain people that God may enable, such as an Elisha, that maybe see those things.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_05: And um I I don't have a full-blown theology on it yet.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_05: I tell people I'm learning with my audience, and but but it's those passages, those beautifully weird passages that I point to to say, look, he could see something the servant couldn't.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_05: And he prayed, and God allowed the servant to see that too.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_05: Uh, does that mean we should pray and ask God?
1:07:00
SPEAKER_05: Oh, God, let me see those things?
1:07:01
SPEAKER_05: I know a bunch of charismatics that try, and I know a bunch of charismatics that lie also.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_05: And I'm a charismatic, so I'm not trying to bash anybody up, you know.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_05: So it's like, I know a bunch that lie about these experiences.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_05: Heck, even I at one time I was in a hyper Pentecostal church, and um I I I believed in the gift of tongues, but I I didn't have the gift.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_05: And in this church, you had to have it, or or you were a second-class citizen kind of thing.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_05: And so I remember one day everybody surrounding me and screaming and hooting and hollering, I got a Suzuki Shotabada Honda, you know, and they're just yelling and yelling and yelling.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_05: And I remember faking the gift of tongues so they get off my back.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_05: And I went home feeling like such a fraud and just crying out to the Lord.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_05: Like I said, before we started the show, I almost walked away from the Lord being in this this hyper Pentecostal environment.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_05: Um and the Lord just spoke to my heart so clearly in a way that only he can do that was like, I need you to study my word.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, but but isn't that what they're teaching every week?
1:08:00
SPEAKER_05: And he's like, No, I need you to do it.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_05: And I felt like, am I allowed to do that?
1:08:04
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm such a baby Christian.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, how how but but but what if I get it wrong?
1:08:08
SPEAKER_05: He's like, well, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be with you, I'm gonna meet you there.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_05: And so I began to study and I began to ask questions about the Bible, and well, they didn't like that very much.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_05: And eventually uh I I I didn't get kicked out but got kicked out.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_05: It was kind of like if you're not gonna straighten up and fly right, mister, then you're not welcome here.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, if if you're gonna shun me for my questions, then I guess I'm not welcome here.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, but but uh anyways, with with with um with the supernatural, the Bible is what changed my mind on these things.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_05: That there are some things that I think we need to approach with a little more of an open mind, um, and ask God for discernment along the way.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, I I what will will we start to see, like, and again, trying to tie it back to our Ghostbusters theme, will will we start to see uh more and more strange phenomenon as we grow closer to that to that day, whatever that day means for for those listening.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_05: Um maybe.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_05: Maybe do I do I think that what they will be seeing are the spirits of the deceased?
1:09:14
SPEAKER_05: Um no, actually, not that I think it's out of the realm of possibility as I as I go into great detail, like I think it is within the realm of possibility, and I even give some some reasons as to why that is, but the vast majority of encounters, and I love that in Ghostbusters when you're watching all of these spirits kind of fly around and stuff, which of them look like actual people?
1:09:34
SPEAKER_05: Very few of them actually look like people.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: That's really funny that you say that.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_05: And I I I think it's brilliant.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_05: I don't think it was their intention, but I think it's brilliant because the vast majority uh of the spirits, the the the and I go into some of the Hebrew terminology, I think in it it's episode five or six, some of the Hebrew terminology that talks about these spirits, these knowing ones, and and um yeah, that they uh what it do they look like, you know, four arms and big teeth?
1:10:03
SPEAKER_05: No, probably not, but but I I just I just think it's it's interesting that I think the spiritual world is is way more populated than we than we realize, that it's a lot more malevolent than than uh than those outside of the faith would like to to recognize because one of their chief uh their mo, one of their chief tools is deception.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_05: It's deception.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_05: And we have to remember that as we as we engage with these fringe topics, we gotta remember that one of the chief modus operandi of the enemy in the powers of darkness is gonna be deception.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_05: And it's so much easier to deceive when you've already bought into certain things.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_05: And um that's that's another kind of theme that I carry into some of my more recent episodes.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_05: The Bunny Man of of West Virginia is a funny one because he's not actually a cryptid at all.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_05: When you go into the urban legend, it was just a creepy guy in a suit, probably trying to scare people away.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_05: You know, it kind of property, the ultimate HOA, you know.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_05: He's trying to scare people away so they don't ruin his property value.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_05: Um, so there was nothing supernatural or paranormal in that.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_05: So we just have to be open-minded, but not so open-minded, our brains fall out, you know.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_01: That's just, oh my gosh, I know.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: It's such a it's a challenge though, because I mean, you want like for me, I really just want to give people space to to really because in my journey, being able to like go on Bo Kennedy's show and tell my story and and really having to think about it, like start to finish, like, you know, getting all the weird stuff that happened to me out of the way, it was really part of a healing experience for me.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_01: Because then I was able to kind of be like, okay, well, that was obviously some spiritual warfare that was happening, and this is probably why, because I believe kind of what you're saying with deception.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, I really believe um personally that we all have gifts.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_01: I believe in I believe in gifts.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think I I really think that that is what is the root of whatever the devil or the enemy wants to deceive and to pull out of you.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_01: He wants to get you out of the way so that you don't have the ability to use your gifts for the kingdom here while we're here.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_01: Like I re that I really the more that I and again people can disagree with that, like that's fine.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't really mind that.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not a theologian and I'm I'm pretty new here, but you know, that's kind of what I feel because for me that's what it was very clear after a while, like going back and looking at my past and stuff like that.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, I always had this, I really wanted to um really you know, always an empath, you know, could always feel people's experiences, wanted to help heal people, you know, all that stuff, like got into the new age for that.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_01: I really thought I was gonna be some sort of like Rike healer, you know.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's really just like, okay, well, how can I how can I let you just tell your story and just get that out of the way and maybe provide a little bit of clarity or something, you know, or you know, even just pray with you or or whatever, because I think that that's just it.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: Like the the enemy wants to disable your gift, like whatever your gift is.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_01: And not and they're not and not every gift, like the the tongues thing.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: It's funny, like I had people trying to, you know, when I started talking about starting this podcast and the idea of starting this, it's at some point, like I would like to consider it a ministry, but I'm sure it's uh it's doing everything you do in life is a ministry.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't you don't have to like pinpoint it to Yeah, you don't need to label it.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_01: No, like if I'm if I've given it to God and He's gonna do what He's gonna do, then it's I'm in ministry, like that's what we're here for, you know.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_01: But it's funny because somebody asked me, like, oh my god, like you know, you're gonna be praying for people, like, you know, do you have the gifts of tongues?
1:14:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, um, no, I don't, I don't, I don't have that.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_01: And they were they started to like pray for me to pull it out of me, and I was like, I don't know how I feel about this.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I I've experienced people pray tongues over me, and I have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I it's a beautiful encounter, but I don't think that you can just pull it out of somebody, like well, and Paul said not everyone would have it.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_05: Not everybody is gonna have it, like you know, I I really just don't think that that's something that we need to be trying to, you know, and and I don't I think for me as with that gift specifically, uh I I I think I've only I know I faked it that one time.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_05: I I know I did.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_05: I and I I was so ashamed and embarrassed and and and just feeling defeated.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_05: But then there was one other time where I I felt like I actually exercised the gift.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_05: I remember I was working for uh a BMW dealership, and uh I I did not how to I did not know how to drive a stick.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_05: I had two lessons in in an M3, and it was a customer's M3, which they shouldn't have been doing, but you know, one of my supervisors is trying to teach me how to drive a stick.
1:15:13
SPEAKER_05: And I mean it was it was like this.
1:15:15
SPEAKER_05: It was awful, awful, awful.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_05: Two lessons, two failed lessons to drive stick.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_05: Well, I was very vocal about my faith, and I had a my boss at the time, he didn't uh he didn't like that.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_05: He didn't like that I was a Christian and and an outspoken one at that.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_05: So he sends me one day on a pickup.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_05: I was going to downtown Austin and I was gonna pick up an M5, and I didn't know a lot about BMWs at the time.
1:15:37
SPEAKER_05: I was just working for them because I needed to pay my rent.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_05: So I I I'm told to go pick up this car in downtown Austin.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_05: It's in a parking garage in downtown Austin.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_05: Very it's like an$80,000 car.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_05: It belongs to this judge, and he gives me his keys.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_05: I give him the keys to the loaner, and I wait for him to walk away because I got in his car and it was a stick shift.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_05: And I was so utterly terrified that uh God knew I needed that job.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_05: If I lost that job, I was gonna lose my apartment.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_05: I was live literally less than paycheck to paycheck at this point in time.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_05: So I I I start praying, and then at some point, stuff is coming out of my mouth that I didn't understand.
1:16:20
SPEAKER_05: But while that's happening, I start driving this stick shift all the way back to it was a 30-minute drive from downtown Austin back to the dealership.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_05: And mind you, downtown Austin is like this.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_05: And I remember the one point where I'm stopping at a stoplight, and I'm so terrified, and I'm just praying louder, and I don't know what I'm what I'm praying at that time, but I I believe at that point God was supernaturally enabling me to drive this this M5 because I can't drive this thing.
1:16:52
SPEAKER_05: And and I drive because uh he's just so kind.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_05: And and now it's not like you know, even with the gift of tongues, like I don't think I have the gift.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_05: Do I think I exercised the gift in that moment?
1:17:04
SPEAKER_05: I think it was a genuine operation of the gift, but I don't think I have it.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_05: It's not something I know I do normally in my prayer closet or anything like that.
1:17:12
SPEAKER_05: Or um, but but I I agree with you that uh, because you had you had said something really uh powerful, and that was that Satan wants to derail you before you can operate in your purpose, before you can find out who God is and do what God called you to do.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_05: And that's a biblical idea because Satan throughout the Bible wants to destroy things in their infancy.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_05: From the very moment God gives the first messianic prophecy, uh, Genesis 3.15, you know, that the seed of the woman will rise up and crush the head of the serpent.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_05: Immediately, what does what does Satan follow up and do?
1:17:48
SPEAKER_05: He he tempts the heart of Cain to kill his brother, because for all he knew, his brother Abel could have been that promised seed.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_05: So he's he he he took him out.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_05: And how many times has Satan tried to wipe out the Jewish people historically, trying to cancel out Messiah before he ever could come into the world?
1:18:09
SPEAKER_05: And then even afterward, we see that people have tried certain awful people from WW2 tried to take them out even in recent history.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_05: Um I just think anti-Semitism is satanic, it's demonic to its core.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_05: And and um in any case, he he he wants to crush the promises of God from the Bible, he wants to crush the promises and purposes of God to the individual and in the life of the individual before they can ever start, because that's when they're the easiest to take out.
1:18:40
SPEAKER_05: Hey, you know, that's that's easy, that's the abortion epidemic in our in the West.
1:18:45
SPEAKER_05: It's easier to take them out in their infancy before they can ever realize the true power that they have in the Lord Jesus.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_05: And so, yeah, anyways, uh that when you had said that, I was like, oh man, that's so true that he wants to stop these things before they ever get the chance to take off.
1:19:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that was my story too.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my my faith was really um diminished when I was seven.
1:19:09
SPEAKER_01: That was when it was really just kind of one of those things where I just started questioning the question, you know, just like because I for me it was prayer, and that's the twisting, right?
1:19:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I prayed for whatever, and you know, we had a lot of turmoil in my family, so I was praying for that, and I didn't see God show up in that at all.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_01: Now I didn't have people around me to tell me he's not gonna show up the way that you think he's gonna show up, like, but it's the faith that you you know it's gonna be something very different, but he's still gonna work and you'll see it.
1:19:43
SPEAKER_01: But I didn't have that, so it was that that seed of doubt was planted very, very young in my life, and I actually got a chance to see God restore that in my family.
1:19:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my son just had an incredible encounter with the Holy Spirit at church the other week um where he was just sobbing.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_01: He was it was one of those situations where I was I had so I'm the production assistant, I'm I'm running this mobile camera because we do live streams and stuff, and so I'm running this mobile camera and I'm running around the sanctuary, and he was doing something in kids' church, and I he didn't want to stay to for the second service.
1:20:21
SPEAKER_01: So I said, just come down, you can stand at the production booth.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_01: When I'm done the camera, you know, I'll come, you can stand with me while I run the other camera.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_01: And so he was fine with that.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm why I he just he got put in a place that he would never usually be in.
1:20:37
SPEAKER_01: Like he would never be in big church worship, you know, because we kind of have it different for the, you know, they do worship upstairs, but it's different.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_01: And so he was just standing there, and I I I walk around the sanctuary and I got this camera and I'm looking at him and he's sobbing.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_01: He's absolutely sobbing.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm like, what is happening here?
1:20:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, are you sick?
1:20:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, let me just I'm like one more song.
1:21:01
SPEAKER_01: I've got to finish this, and then I gotta put it back.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_01: Cause I'm like pretty much the director at that point, and I have to like talk to my people backstage.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_01: Like it's a whole I can't just like up and leave.
1:21:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:21:10
SPEAKER_01: So I go, I go to him, I put the camera down, I go to him, and I'm like, buddy, what's going on?
1:21:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you doing?
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: What's are you sick?
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I'm so happy.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what do you mean?
1:21:24
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
1:21:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, and he's like, I he's like, I think I've I felt the Holy Spirit like touch me.
1:21:29
SPEAKER_01: I felt the Holy Spirit.
1:21:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I was just like, oh my gosh, like he's sobbing.
1:21:34
SPEAKER_01: And so then of course I think because it's I mean, we're not we're not really a Pentecostal, we're non-denominational, but there's pen there, we get a whole we get a whole bunch.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_01: It's it gets wild sometimes, which I love.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_01: I hoot and holler, whatever, fall on the fall out.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_01: So for for me, I'm kind of like, oh my god, is he gonna fall out?
1:21:51
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm thinking, like, oh, is he gonna be getting slain here?
1:21:54
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
1:21:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've never, I mean, I've never experienced that level, you know.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've definitely had encounters with the Holy Spirit before, but like I'm thinking, oh man, this kid's gonna fall about to fall out in church.
1:22:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, so it was really cool because then I'm, you know, I take him home and he didn't want to talk about it.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he was kind of he was just so overcome.
1:22:13
SPEAKER_01: But as I was processing that, I just got this, you know, revelation and I just said, Thank you.
1:22:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, what a blessing that I get to see that restored because he is a god of restoration.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I mean, that's just what he does.
1:22:27
SPEAKER_01: He restores all of our brokenness and all of our pain and our hurt and all this stuff.
1:22:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think he's really doing that with his church in a way with this fringe community.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I really, I really think that he's kind of creating this space where we get to be those people that are gonna minister to the all the weirdos that are, you know.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like we should just camp out in front of ghost hunting things, you know, or just be, or maybe even feeling like open, you know, to just say, hey, you know what?
1:22:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is a really weird haunted place.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, or you're really kind of a haunted person.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_01: Do you want to talk about this?
1:23:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, because whatever it is, it's there's probably some inward trauma that there's a brokenness in you that needs to be healed, and you're only gonna get it with Jesus.
1:23:12
SPEAKER_01: But also, like, we can probably stop like the hat man and all the like stuff that's happening that's haunting you too, if we could just you know talk about it.
1:23:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think that this space is creating that.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think he's or I think God is creating that with the space where you're having these people kind of coming in to this, like, okay, well, Christians aren't really that weird.
1:23:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're now they're really weird, you know.
1:23:35
SPEAKER_01: Again, we are scaring the straights because now the ones that we just are well.
1:23:41
SPEAKER_05: Now the ones that I'm scaring now are are are those that are in my camp, right?
1:23:46
SPEAKER_05: Those that are that are other Christians that are like, I don't know about that, but it's like, well, then I'm not for you.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_05: And that's okay because I don't I don't need to preach to the choir.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_05: I I came out of the Bible belt because I didn't I got tired of preaching to the choir where everyone is super religious and already thinks they're saved anyway.
1:24:03
SPEAKER_05: I I want to come uh to the to the book.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I love my pastor cannot stand that.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I think he I have a lot of um Gen X pastors that grew up in church and kind of went through like I don't even like to say like deconstruction, but you know, it was just that whole like, all right, come on, you know, but he'll even say, you know, then it's not for you, you know, like this the church is not for you.
1:24:27
SPEAKER_01: You've been saved for 40 years.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: Congratulations.
1:24:29
SPEAKER_01: Do you serve?
1:24:30
SPEAKER_01: What do you do?
1:24:31
SPEAKER_01: What do you do here?
1:24:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
1:24:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you even doing?
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: What how's your witness?
1:24:36
SPEAKER_01: How is that person covered in piercings and tattoos and probably drunk?
1:24:40
SPEAKER_01: Are you what are you gonna do when they come in and sit down?
1:24:42
SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna complain that they're sitting in your seat?
1:24:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I mean, his I'm just like, oh yeah, come yeah, get him.
1:24:49
SPEAKER_05: So so I as a Calvary Chapel pastor, Chuck Smith was the founder of Calvary Chapel, he's with the Lord now, but one of my favorite Pastor Chuck stories, and I'm not I didn't grow up in Calvary Chapel, like I I didn't get saved till I was 17, got saved in a Baptist church, didn't find Calvary till I'm in my 20s, right?
1:25:04
SPEAKER_05: Right around the time I got married, is when I found a Calvary Chapel.
1:25:07
SPEAKER_05: But um, Pastor Chuck, he he was in a denomination at the time, and they had uh just got new carpets, and it's in the 70s.
1:25:17
SPEAKER_05: A bunch of hippies start you know coming to church and they're coming in with their dirty feet.
1:25:22
SPEAKER_05: And they they were, you know, so there was a bunch of of people complaining to Chuck about the the hippies dirtying the carpet.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_05: And so I know where this is gonna go.
1:25:32
SPEAKER_05: What he did before that next Sunday, he gutted the church, he ripped up all the carpets, and you know, but when they came out, they said, Well, what what'd you do?
1:25:43
SPEAKER_05: What happened to the carpet?
1:25:44
SPEAKER_05: He says, Well, now you don't have to worry about them getting dirty anymore.
1:25:46
SPEAKER_05: And so it's like, I love that story so much.
1:25:50
SPEAKER_05: And I think unfortunately, there are many even within Calvary Chapel that have forgotten that Chuck story.
1:25:55
SPEAKER_05: It's my favorite one.
1:25:56
SPEAKER_05: Um, because I I get I get the stiff arm even from folks within my own camp.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_05: I I'm not afraid to to to say it.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_05: That um uh so I I I have realized up here in the P and dub that the body of Christ is bigger than the dove.
1:26:11
SPEAKER_05: Uh and I when I say the dove, I mean the Calvary Chapel logo.
1:26:14
SPEAKER_05: So I have some of my closest friends and and relationships that I'm forming are not within my so-called denomination, even though Calvary Chapel doesn't like to use that word.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_05: We're a denomination, whether they want to call it that or not.
1:26:25
SPEAKER_05: But you know, I I I have formed wonderful, enriching fellowship with those outside of my camp.
1:26:34
SPEAKER_05: And um, if you surround yourself with people that look like you, talk like you, uh uh uh believe everything identical to you, you're never gonna be challenged.
1:26:44
SPEAKER_05: You're you're you're never gonna grow.
1:26:45
SPEAKER_05: And and a lot of the times I've been challenged and have maybe changed my mind.
1:26:49
SPEAKER_05: And other times I'm challenged, but what it does is has well, why do I believe that?
1:26:54
SPEAKER_05: I don't think we ask that question enough.
1:26:56
SPEAKER_05: Like, well, why do I believe what I believe?
1:26:59
SPEAKER_05: That's not a that's not a bad question, but it is a scary one for those that don't want to be challenged, that are just like la la la la la, I can't hear you, just let me be blissfully ignorant.
1:27:09
SPEAKER_05: It's like, well, but that's not what we've been called to either.
1:27:12
SPEAKER_05: And it's not helpful to to the lost, nor is it helpful to the found either, because we get very tribal and gross.
1:27:19
SPEAKER_01: So we do, and that and that's like I mean, that just is is such a good point because it's true.
1:27:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what you know, how are you helping?
1:27:27
SPEAKER_01: How are you helping those people like discover who Jesus is?
1:27:31
SPEAKER_01: And what would Jesus do in that situation?
1:27:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know what he would do.
1:27:36
SPEAKER_01: He's he would do what he did.
1:27:37
SPEAKER_01: He would wash their feet.
1:27:39
SPEAKER_01: He would wash their feet.
1:27:41
SPEAKER_01: So that they and and fellowship with them and wash their feet.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_01: That's what he did.
1:27:45
SPEAKER_01: That was like one of his last right?
1:27:46
SPEAKER_01: That was like the last thing he did before.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, before going out into the Garden of Gethsemane to pray.
1:27:52
SPEAKER_05: Uh it was and and so even when they got to the upper room to to have that that first communion, it was a Passover, but it kind of was.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_05: Was gonna be the proto-communion.
1:28:02
SPEAKER_05: Um in that moment when you when you look at it in the gospels, the lowest servant in the house, it was their responsibility to wash the feet of the guests.
1:28:18
SPEAKER_05: And they get there, and the the 12 are looking at each other.
1:28:23
SPEAKER_05: Well, it ain't gonna be me.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_05: Because remember, on the way there, remember as they're walking some of the arguments that they would have, who would be the greatest in the kingdom?
1:28:32
SPEAKER_05: Those were the kind of conversations they were having.
1:28:34
SPEAKER_05: So they get into this upper room, and remember, it was the lowest servant in the house that was supposed to wash the feet.
1:28:39
SPEAKER_05: Well, they're like, Well, I ain't gonna do it.
1:28:41
SPEAKER_05: Well, it ain't gonna be me.
1:28:42
SPEAKER_05: And and so they all sit with dirty feet around this this table.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_05: And the way that they would have sat in in in the east at the time is they would have actually been on the ground with their feet out to the back, you know.
1:28:53
SPEAKER_05: So it's like you got somebody's nasty feet.
1:28:55
SPEAKER_05: There was no cute table with chairs, you know, so you got somebody's nasty feet out out next to your stuff.
1:29:00
SPEAKER_05: And when Jesus kind of disrobed, not all of all of his gear, but you know, he he there's they're like, what is he doing?
1:29:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and he gets his towel and he gets a little basin and he goes, and that's why Peter is just so appalled.
1:29:12
SPEAKER_05: He's like, No, no, no, no, no, no, you you won't you can't wash my feet, you won't wash my feet.
1:29:16
SPEAKER_05: Like, if I don't wash your feet, you have no part of me.
1:29:18
SPEAKER_05: Oh, in that case, wash all of me, you know.
1:29:21
SPEAKER_05: And he's like, chill out, Peter, you know.
1:29:23
SPEAKER_05: Uh, but but it's such a powerful moment because he he all these men, nobody wanted to be the lowest one.
1:29:30
SPEAKER_05: Nobody wanted to be the weird one.
1:29:32
SPEAKER_05: And um, I I'm okay with being low and being seen as low, and I'm okay with being seen as weird.
1:29:39
SPEAKER_05: And that has created so many ministry opportunities for me.
1:29:43
SPEAKER_05: And and you know what?
1:29:44
SPEAKER_05: For those that want to think highly of themselves and surround themselves in an echo chamber, it's like that you have that.
1:29:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm so glad.
1:29:51
SPEAKER_05: Like, as much as there are certain things about being in a conservative state that I miss, or certain things about being in Texas, the Mexican food that I miss, right?
1:29:59
SPEAKER_05: But but I'm so I'm so glad that uh up here um it feels truly like the harvest is is plentiful, but the workers are few.
1:30:08
SPEAKER_05: That that they're that there's just not enough people up here doing the work.
1:30:12
SPEAKER_05: Um so so I got my work cut out for me, but it's it's I I see I see the challenge, and and the podcast has been a wonderful way to connect with those who may not come to my church because they hear Jesus and they're like, you know, they don't, but but I'd be like, hey, I got a Bigfoot podcast, or hey, I got an alien podcast, and I talk about hauntings and ghosts and stuff, and they're like, oh man, that's effing awesome, you know.
1:30:37
SPEAKER_05: And and and and so they listen, and sometimes I hear from them, sometimes I don't.
1:30:43
SPEAKER_05: I remember there was one guy in Starbucks, uh, he was the barista every time I would go through this one particular Starbucks, and you know, they asked about the show, and when I had come back a week later to get some coffee, he was like, Man, everybody in the in the store listened to your show.
1:30:57
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, that's so cool.
1:30:58
SPEAKER_05: You know, that that's that's wonderful because where it's situated, I know that uh they're they're probably not believers.
1:31:06
SPEAKER_05: And and so that that was awesome that they they were willing to to check it out.
1:31:11
SPEAKER_05: And you know, I I I hope to get the opportunity to connect with them later down the line.
1:31:17
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
1:31:17
SPEAKER_05: I i it's been wild, like you think you're never gonna see somebody again, and then the Lord brings them back into your path.
1:31:24
SPEAKER_05: That's happened a few times up here in Washington, so I I never know who he's gonna bring back into my life or into my path, um, or who I'm gonna meet one time and never see again.
1:31:35
SPEAKER_05: But who knows that one seed, I think it's gonna be so cool when we do get there and we're in the presence of Jesus, and there's somebody that walks up to us and says, I'm here because you loved me.
1:31:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm here because I wasn't too weird for you to talk to, to say hi to.
1:31:57
SPEAKER_05: My ideas and my experiences weren't too bizarre for you didn't shun me, you listened to me.
1:32:04
SPEAKER_05: And that opened a door, that planted a seed for me, and I may have never seen them again.
1:32:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:32:11
SPEAKER_05: But they remembered that because even I I I used to be involved in youth ministry for a really long time, and there I still, every once in a while, I'll get a message from one of the kids that was in my youth group a lifetime ago, and they're an adult now with a wife and with a kid, and and they're like, Thank you.
1:32:28
SPEAKER_05: That's so because for 10 years I ran, but I saw you were always right where I expected you to be.
1:32:35
SPEAKER_05: I you were always at your post.
1:32:37
SPEAKER_05: This this young man was in the military he went into the military.
1:32:40
SPEAKER_05: He's like, you know, no matter what I was doing in my life, whenever I I was in school, and then when I would come back to visit, you were always at your post.
1:32:47
SPEAKER_05: And even with youth ministry, uh, you know, I I I was ostracized then too, because there are those that kind of look at you, oh, it's a nerdy youth pastor, ha ha ha.
1:32:58
SPEAKER_05: I was like, you know what, that's that's fine.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_05: That's fine.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_05: Um, and it I I I I just embrace the weird and and now it's it's wonderful.
1:33:08
SPEAKER_05: And and I I I love that you want to connect so many within the body of Christ that are in that same vein.
1:33:15
SPEAKER_05: And I think that the Lord's gonna use that in a really cool way.
1:33:18
SPEAKER_05: What what it looks like practically, I don't know.
1:33:21
SPEAKER_05: But um I I definitely think it's a question all of us should be asking what within this space.
1:33:27
SPEAKER_05: Um, what ways can we connect to affect the larger body of Christ, if that's what it looks like, or or if it's coming together in moments like this where we strategize and collaborate, and then the Lord sends us back into our our respected mission fields and and we apply it, whether whether it's you know, you're on the East Coast, I'm on the West Coast, and uh Christ is needing.
1:33:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but very godless.
1:33:53
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's godless.
1:33:54
SPEAKER_05: It's god, it's wild on the coast because everybody is wild here.
1:33:58
SPEAKER_05: Everyone is flocking to the to the middle of the country, to the conservative spaces.
1:34:02
SPEAKER_05: And and I think, and this is gonna upset some folks, and I apologize if if if if you lose some folks for this, but uh it's so it's so cowardly.
1:34:10
SPEAKER_05: It's so cowardly.
1:34:11
SPEAKER_05: Now, if you're making those decisions because you're like, hey, I got kids, and I'm worried that, you know, because like if you're in Colorado or if you're in Oregon and the state is starting to do stuff like we're gonna take your kids if you don't encourage the alphabet mafia tendencies, it's like, well, um, I got a family, I got kids, I might need to relocate to somewhere where I can raise my kids and not be fearful the state will take them from me.
1:34:35
SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, if you prayerfully took that before the Lord and you felt like, okay, this is what I need to do to protect my family, I respect that.
1:34:41
SPEAKER_05: So I'm not throwing any shade at those folks.
1:34:43
SPEAKER_05: But for those that are like, oh man, these taxes are getting high, and life is just getting too uncomfortable for me.
1:34:50
SPEAKER_05: I need to go somewhere where everyone looks like me, sounds like me, thinks like me.
1:34:54
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, well, but when you do that, um you're you're abandoning very fruitful mission fields.
1:35:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're hard.
1:35:02
SPEAKER_05: They're gonna be hard.
1:35:03
SPEAKER_05: But can you imagine if Paul was like, Man, Corinth is so liberal, I gotta get out of here as soon as I can.
1:35:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:35:09
SPEAKER_05: I mean he saw it as an opportunity.
1:35:12
SPEAKER_05: It was one of the most, it was, it was so bad, even secular people, if they uh there was a term, uh Corinthatsomai in Greek.
1:35:19
SPEAKER_05: It's like you're behaving like a Corinthian was one of the biggest insults.
1:35:23
SPEAKER_05: So it this was a place that even the non-believers were like, man, Corinth is ratchet.
1:35:28
SPEAKER_05: Um so there are plenty of places that have reputations of being super worldly, super secular and godless.
1:35:36
SPEAKER_05: But it's like where I tell people that look at me like I'm crazy, I look at them with love and I say, where is light needed, but where it is darkest?
1:35:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it and then I shut them up.
1:35:46
SPEAKER_05: I shut them up.
1:35:46
SPEAKER_05: They don't agree with me, but they have nothing to rebut me with because where is light needed most?
1:35:51
SPEAKER_05: Where it's darkest.
1:35:52
SPEAKER_05: On a summer day, well, and right now, summer in Washington, it can be uh seven o'clock, it can be nine o'clock and the sun is still out.
1:35:59
SPEAKER_05: But you don't need a flashlight where there's tons of light.
1:36:03
SPEAKER_05: You you don't.
1:36:03
SPEAKER_05: And so I I I came to somewhere super dark.
1:36:07
SPEAKER_05: I had a friend, he's a pastor now up in Alaska.
1:36:09
SPEAKER_05: He told me that uh even a candle looks like a lighthouse when it's dark enough.
1:36:15
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, wow, you know, because you can feel real insignificant and you can feel also like, oh, how can I make a difference?
1:36:21
SPEAKER_05: It's so bad.
1:36:22
SPEAKER_05: But he's like, no, if it's dark enough, even a candle can look like a lighthouse.
1:36:26
SPEAKER_05: And that's resonated with me and it stuck with me.
1:36:28
SPEAKER_05: And and so keep you you have a wonderful thing going and and continue to to connect, you know, the the the fringe Christian community uh as as the Lord leads.
1:36:39
SPEAKER_01: And I you know, for me, it's it's really just kind of like I said, that whole aspect of like the table.
1:36:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have all the answers, and I certainly it's not my job to judge people's, you know, lifestyles, positions, whatever, you know.
1:36:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm whatever I I have so many friends that are in so many different lifestyles, have gone through so many different traumas and you know just so many different things.
1:37:06
SPEAKER_01: And I have family members that are experiencing things, you know, same sort of thing.
1:37:10
SPEAKER_01: Lots of darkness.
1:37:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of darkness and there's a lot of confusion.
1:37:14
SPEAKER_01: But who am I to sit and say, oh, you know, what you're doing is wrong?
1:37:18
SPEAKER_01: That's what people see and it keeps them away from God and it keeps them away from his character because they just hear, you know, you're not enough.
1:37:27
SPEAKER_01: And they've probably been hearing that their whole lives.
1:37:29
SPEAKER_01: So I just try to, you know, kind of, yeah, like you say, just hold my ground, know what God is.
1:37:35
SPEAKER_01: It's he hasn't put me in a position to to say, oh, this is wrong, that's wrong.
1:37:40
SPEAKER_01: It's just, hey, everybody come and tell me your ghost encounter.
1:37:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:37:45
SPEAKER_05: And and and that's so cool.
1:37:46
SPEAKER_05: And so so you found your lane, now stay in it, and and and be faithful where the Lord has planted you.
1:37:52
SPEAKER_05: And and that's really what it takes.
1:37:54
SPEAKER_05: And I I find that so much we get into so much trouble worrying about what other people are doing.
1:38:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
1:38:02
SPEAKER_05: So and when people worry about what we're doing, it's like you know what, it's none of your business.
1:38:07
SPEAKER_05: It's I I love you, but it's really none of your business.
1:38:09
SPEAKER_05: I I feel led of the Lord in this area, and and and so, you know, it's it's trying to find common ground, which is something Jesus did all the time.
1:38:19
SPEAKER_05: And and I do find it interesting that as Jesus ministered, when he was dealing with religious hypocrisy, he was cutthroat.
1:38:28
SPEAKER_05: He was so direct and so hard on those religious folks that had lost the plot.
1:38:35
SPEAKER_05: But when he was dealing with, say, for example, the the woman at the well in Samaria, the Samaritan woman, here was a woman, he was still very direct.
1:38:43
SPEAKER_05: You know, he was, you know, uh, well, I'm not married.
1:38:45
SPEAKER_05: He's like, I know, and the you know, you've been married five times, and the dude you're living with now is not your husband, but you know, go get him.
1:38:51
SPEAKER_05: And and he he he was still very direct, he was so willing to call out sin, but he was so gentle with her versus how he interacted with the Pharisees.
1:39:01
SPEAKER_05: So, you know, it it's it's meeting people where they're at.
1:39:05
SPEAKER_05: She she was like, Well, you know, when Messiah comes, you know, we'll know all these things.
1:39:12
SPEAKER_05: And he's like, Oh man, let me tell you.
1:39:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he's he's right in front of you, you know.
1:39:16
SPEAKER_05: And and so we get the opportunity to meet people where they're at.
1:39:20
SPEAKER_05: Maybe they're talking about what mountain we should be worshiping it on, and and and our job is just point him to Jesus and let him sort out the rest.
1:39:27
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, don't don't clean the fish before you catch them.
1:39:29
SPEAKER_05: So when I'm dealing with non-believers, uh I'm gonna I'm gonna preach the gospel and the gospel convicts of of sin.
1:39:36
SPEAKER_05: Um, but I'm not I'm not trying to clean the fish before I catch them.
1:39:39
SPEAKER_05: And when it comes to meeting with fellow believers, I don't get together trying to change everybody's mind.
1:39:46
SPEAKER_05: We've been arguing about these things for 2,000 years.
1:39:48
SPEAKER_05: I think we're gonna argue, you know, for for another 2200 or another 2,000, depending on where when the Lord, you know, when his plans are ready.
1:39:57
SPEAKER_01: It will it will only stop in heaven.
1:39:59
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
1:40:01
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
1:40:01
SPEAKER_05: But until then, well, you know, uh it's wonderful to to to to meet others that uh have have the same heart for people.
1:40:09
SPEAKER_05: And and so yeah, you know, I I'm I'm I'm I'm grateful for for for this opportunity.
1:40:14
SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much.
1:40:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on.
1:40:16
SPEAKER_01: This was really great.
1:40:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, it was a great time and love to do it again sometime and and just please do.
1:40:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'd love that.
1:40:23
SPEAKER_05: And um episode 30, uh so not the this 29 coming out Tuesday is gonna be on the Vietnam stuff.
1:40:30
SPEAKER_05: Episode 30, uh, I'm going to do uh kind of in celebration of this.
1:40:35
SPEAKER_05: Uh I'm gonna do a Ghostbusters episode where I'm gonna kind of pick apart some of the things that happened in the movie and and say this is where they got it right and this is where I think they got it wrong, and talk a little bit about you know Dan Aykroyd and his background and stuff.
1:40:48
SPEAKER_05: And so um, yeah, uh I knew that you were gonna enjoy that.
1:40:53
SPEAKER_05: So that that's what's coming, not not this Tuesday, but the following episode 30 will be a special uh big three zero.
1:41:00
SPEAKER_01: When so not this Tuesday, so so this will probably come out the following.
1:41:05
SPEAKER_01: So like that Friday, hopefully, if I can get it all sound designed.
1:41:08
SPEAKER_01: But so I just had episode 32.
1:41:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, look at that.
1:41:11
SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's so cool.
1:41:12
SPEAKER_01: Episode 30.
1:41:13
SPEAKER_05: Woo! We made it big three zero.
1:41:15
SPEAKER_05: We made it, I know.
1:41:16
SPEAKER_01: It's been a year and it's taken me 30.
1:41:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, wait, oh I because I just I've told people, you're don't please, please expect the unexpected.
1:41:24
SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna get something weekly.
1:41:25
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
1:41:26
SPEAKER_01: I just it's hard.
1:41:27
SPEAKER_05: It's hard.
1:41:28
SPEAKER_05: I'm drowning in it now, so I get it.
1:41:30
SPEAKER_05: But um, hey, just keep keep going little by little.
1:41:33
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
1:41:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, Nelly, thank you so much.
1:41:36
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you tell everybody um where they can find your amazing dancing toaster?
1:41:41
SPEAKER_01: Dancing toaster.
1:41:42
SPEAKER_05: All right.
1:41:42
SPEAKER_05: So the dancing toaster is found on Apple, it's found on Spotify.
1:41:46
SPEAKER_05: You just look for the Dancing Toaster, it pops up now uh pretty easily.
1:41:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm on YouTube as well.
1:41:52
SPEAKER_05: Um, it's not as exciting on YouTube if you're looking for something visual, though I am working on that.
1:41:56
SPEAKER_05: Thanks, Christina.
1:41:57
SPEAKER_05: I'm working on getting some visuals using some uh using CapCut to bring some of the stuff, the stories to life.
1:42:04
SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm having fun using it, though my computer is kind of trash.
1:42:07
SPEAKER_05: So I'm probably gonna have to invest in something that can handle the video processing a little bit better.
1:42:12
SPEAKER_05: But uh where wherever podcasts are found, whenever my host adds another podcast uh app, I I immediately submit and say, hey, I want to uh submit to be on that app too.
1:42:23
SPEAKER_05: So and if if if anybody out there you're like, hey, I can't find you on my app, let me know and I'll see what I can do working with my host to get it there.
1:42:30
SPEAKER_05: I've actually been able to do that as well.
1:42:32
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, uh wherever podcasts are found, uh, social media simply at the Dancing Toaster, the Patreon.
1:42:39
SPEAKER_05: Uh I have a Patreon as well.
1:42:40
SPEAKER_05: Five bucks a month.
1:42:41
SPEAKER_05: I give early access to all my episodes.
1:42:44
SPEAKER_05: I give um early access to merch.
1:42:47
SPEAKER_05: I I have a merch store that launched last month, which I'm excited about.
1:42:50
SPEAKER_05: And then um special show, The Man Eating Toaster, where I cover cults and bizarre true crime.
1:42:56
SPEAKER_05: Uh so that's that's been a lot of fun as well.
1:42:59
SPEAKER_05: Though last month I'm I was I'm slacking because I had a wedding to go to.
1:43:02
SPEAKER_05: I had to travel out of state um behind on that, but I'm gonna fix it this summer.
1:43:06
SPEAKER_05: Uh and then the merch stuff is the dancing toaster store.printful.me.
1:43:12
SPEAKER_05: I got some uh some fun stuff on there and adding more throughout the summer um as I as I work with some some designs and or designers to get that ironed out even more.
1:43:22
SPEAKER_05: So that that's where I can be found in all those places.
1:43:25
SPEAKER_05: Please don't be uh don't be shy, Christina.
1:43:27
SPEAKER_05: Don't be shy.
1:43:28
SPEAKER_05: Uh uh Sasquatch and sourdough listeners, come come check out the Dancing Toaster, come hit me up on social media.
1:43:33
SPEAKER_05: I'd love to hear from you.
1:43:34
SPEAKER_05: And um thank you again, Christina, for this opportunity.
1:43:37
SPEAKER_05: I really appreciate it.
1:43:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're welcome.
1:43:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes, go follow him now.
1:43:40
SPEAKER_01: You must, because it's so much fun.
1:43:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I can't even it's just it's like literally binge worthy.
1:43:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like I can binge it, but then it's I don't get like bored and tired of it.
1:43:49
SPEAKER_01: Like it's light enough that I'm like, okay, this is good and it's not too dense, you know.
1:43:55
SPEAKER_05: Well, I I I love that.
1:43:57
SPEAKER_05: The the positive feedback really helps me to know kind of what I need to lean into, but um, this was a lot of fun.
1:44:02
SPEAKER_05: I I I hope we can do it again someday.
1:44:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
1:44:05
SPEAKER_01: You have to come back.
1:44:06
SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk about like, I don't know, something crazy, like the Annabelle doll that apparently escaped.
1:44:11
SPEAKER_01: We didn't even get into that.
1:44:12
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
1:44:12
SPEAKER_05: We can talk about talk about Annabelle, talk about the Warrens and all that stuff.
1:44:16
SPEAKER_05: When I went on the Unrefined Podcast, that's what we talked about was the Warrens.
1:44:19
SPEAKER_05: So that was really cool.
1:44:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a good episode.
1:44:22
SPEAKER_01: So, all right, yeah, go guys.
1:44:23
SPEAKER_01: Follow follow Nelly, uh Dancing Toaster, and thank you so much for listening.
1:44:27
SPEAKER_01: And remember, the truth is out there.
1:44:30
SPEAKER_01: God is with you, and everyone always ends up in the kitchen.
1:44:38
SPEAKER_01: You have been listening to Sasquatch and Sourdough.
1:44:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm Christina, and thank you so much for tuning in.
1:44:44
SPEAKER_01: Sasquatch and Sourdough is so much more than just a podcast.
1:44:48
SPEAKER_01: We are a community of kindred spirits, united by our curiosity and fascination with the extraordinary.
1:44:54
SPEAKER_01: And we want to bring you into the conversation.
1:44:57
SPEAKER_01: So whether you've had a brush with the unexplainable, seen something that you can't quite wrap your head around, this is your space.
1:45:06
SPEAKER_01: We invite you to join us as we break bread and break down the barriers between the known and the unknown.
1:45:12
SPEAKER_01: If you want to share your story, you can email us at saswatch and sourdough at gmail.com or send us a DM on Instagram.
1:45:20
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember, the truth is out there.
1:45:24
SPEAKER_01: God is with you, and everyone always ends up in the kitchen.