Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Paul Marsh on Preparing the Vehicle and Yourself for Overland Travel

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Paul Marsh on Preparing the Vehicle and Yourself for Overland Travel · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
0:06
Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and for this week's conversation we have
0:10
Speaker 1: Paul Marsh. Now, Paul is a legend in the overland
0:14
Speaker 1: industry for his exceptional vehicle builds for crossing continents. He
0:18
Speaker 1: started off building vehicles in the UK and then has
0:23
Speaker 1: since moved down to Cape Town where he prepares overland
0:26
Speaker 1: vehicles for crossing the continent of Africa. Now, Paul is
0:31
Speaker 1: not only a vehicle preparer, but he's also extremely accomplished
0:34
Speaker 1: as a traveler himself. So we go into his early
0:37
Speaker 1: life in South Africa, his early travels throughout the continent,
0:41
Speaker 1: his crossing of the continent of Africa, but then also
0:44
Speaker 1: his multiple trips around the world supporting vintage vehicle rallies.
0:51
Speaker 1: Paul has some really insightful thoughts around preparing a vehicle
0:55
Speaker 1: for overland travel, but also for preparing yourself and your
0:58
Speaker 1: partner for the same trip. He's forgotten more than I've
1:01
Speaker 1: ever learned. So please enjoy my wide ranging conversation with
1:05
Speaker 1: Paul Marsh and a special thanks to Rocky Talkies for
1:10
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1:59
Speaker 1: Talking Paul, it is so great to be with you
2:03
Speaker 1: in South Africa. Thank you for being on the podcast.
2:06
Speaker 2: Hell Scott, last time we met it was a long
2:08
Speaker 2: time ago, nine years I think your accounted it.
2:10
Speaker 3: Was, and it was here in name town.
2:14
Speaker 1: He wow, And that was that was such an amazing
2:17
Speaker 1: moment because and I won't mention the name of the
2:21
Speaker 1: full Drive shop in Johannesburg that was going to help
2:24
Speaker 1: us build the seventy eight for Antarctica, but they just
2:27
Speaker 1: were not able to pull it together. And so Jess
2:32
Speaker 1: from easy On I was talking to him and he says,
2:34
Speaker 1: you got to talk to Paul Marsh And I knew
2:38
Speaker 1: who you were already, but we hadn't had the chance
2:41
Speaker 1: really to work together. And I reached out to you
2:44
Speaker 1: and we made a plan in very short order to
2:47
Speaker 1: somehow shoehorn thirty eight inch tires on a seventy eight
2:51
Speaker 1: series Languager.
2:52
Speaker 2: And build it for Antarctica. And it was actually Antarctica.
2:55
Speaker 2: It was quite interesting because I've just come back to
2:57
Speaker 2: South Africa and I've lived in England for eighty years. Yeah,
3:00
Speaker 2: set up my company there, then moved to Australia and
3:04
Speaker 2: a couple of years and I figured, actually I wanted
3:06
Speaker 2: to be back in South Africa. Actually came back for
3:09
Speaker 2: school union and you know, my heart rested so easy
3:13
Speaker 2: coming back into South Africa. I felt I need to
3:16
Speaker 2: be back here. Yeah, you know when you come back
3:18
Speaker 2: and you just feel whatever it is. I never thought
3:21
Speaker 2: i'd ever be back in South Africa, but I'm really
3:23
Speaker 2: glad that I'm back in South Africa. And I never
3:26
Speaker 2: lived in Cape Town but.
3:27
Speaker 1: And if I remember we drove it down to Cape
3:31
Speaker 1: Town and that we had somehow gotten the tires to
3:34
Speaker 1: be delivered. That true, Yeah, because so we didn't have
3:36
Speaker 1: to drive that.
3:37
Speaker 2: Can you imagine driving on those yeah.
3:39
Speaker 1: A thousand kilometers or so twelve hundred kilometers maybe, Yeah,
3:43
Speaker 1: from joe Burg to here on those tires. So yeah,
3:46
Speaker 1: we look like we skip leg day with that language.
3:50
Speaker 1: It was so lifted in the air.
3:53
Speaker 2: I don't think people really understand, you know, quite honestly,
3:56
Speaker 2: to prepare a vehicle and take it into Antarctica. I
3:58
Speaker 2: mean our specialist companies who an amazing job with this,
4:02
Speaker 2: and obviously to make this vehicle work it needed certain modifications.
4:05
Speaker 2: But what a beautiful challenge and what an incredible opportunity
4:10
Speaker 2: just to be a small part of what that represented
4:12
Speaker 2: in the biggest scheme. Your achievement as expedition leader taking
4:17
Speaker 2: that whole expedition right round the globe. It was impressive.
4:22
Speaker 2: It was really good.
4:23
Speaker 3: It was a joy, and I was so grateful to
4:25
Speaker 3: have you involved.
4:25
Speaker 1: And I remember you were here in Cape Town, and
4:30
Speaker 1: a mutual friend of ours, Mac McKenny, happened to be.
4:33
Speaker 3: Here as well, right, so we.
4:36
Speaker 1: Were all working strapping, you know, bags and luggage to
4:40
Speaker 1: the top of the High Lux before it went into
4:44
Speaker 1: the into the IL seventy six. But we've bumped into
4:49
Speaker 1: each other many times throughout my career, and you've been
4:53
Speaker 1: at this much longer than I have a much greater
4:57
Speaker 1: detail and accomplishment than I've seen. But it's just been
5:00
Speaker 1: and it's been so neat to watch what you've done.
5:02
Speaker 1: And if I remember correctly in the UK, was the
5:05
Speaker 1: name of your company their footloose that's correct.
5:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, footlosts and fancy Free. Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
5:12
Speaker 2: People said why footloots And I said, you know, for me,
5:15
Speaker 2: I was probably footlosts. As a kid, I was always
5:17
Speaker 2: wondering off and getting lost and my mother would have
5:21
Speaker 2: people would find me down by the river and bring
5:23
Speaker 2: us bring me back, and this your son. But it
5:25
Speaker 2: was exactly that, and it was it was a great experience.
5:28
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed my time in the UK. It gave
5:30
Speaker 2: me good opportunities. I met great people. I connected with
5:33
Speaker 2: some great people. I did some great expeditions with Mac
5:36
Speaker 2: and yeah, it was a pivotal point. You know, you
5:39
Speaker 2: grow through your life and then you look at the
5:41
Speaker 2: lessons and the experiences, and you know, it was a passion.
5:45
Speaker 2: It was my passion, and I was very privileged in
5:48
Speaker 2: a way that I could follow my passion and turn
5:51
Speaker 2: it into a business that ultimately gave me something to enjoy,
5:56
Speaker 2: something to learn by probably opportunities to really meet fascinating people,
6:01
Speaker 2: because I always enjoyed the people side as much as
6:04
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the vehicle side. Sure, the vehicle side is
6:06
Speaker 2: challenging and it's interesting and it's you know, you find
6:10
Speaker 2: out what can go wrong, what does go wrong, and
6:12
Speaker 2: if you want to trip, you make a plan to
6:14
Speaker 2: fix it. But people sides equally is fascinating.
6:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, if not more so.
6:19
Speaker 1: I mean we it's hard to get ourselves wrapped around
6:23
Speaker 1: the vehicle as a tool and not as a character.
6:27
Speaker 1: In it's very easy to make the vehicle the main
6:32
Speaker 1: character of the story, to have them as simple as possible,
6:36
Speaker 1: but also help help others recognize that the main character
6:39
Speaker 1: of the adventure is you and your travel companions.
6:43
Speaker 2: And I think asking yourself exactly, asking yourself the question
6:47
Speaker 2: why am I doing this? Why am I actually taking
6:49
Speaker 2: my time and my energy? And what am I going
6:51
Speaker 2: to invest this in? You know, and if you look
6:53
Speaker 2: at probably the time of your life. How do you
6:57
Speaker 2: build up your life and where do you put your
6:59
Speaker 2: time in energy? And nowadays I think we're looking back
7:03
Speaker 2: to reconnect back with who we are. I certainly find
7:06
Speaker 2: that when I go out on trips and it gives
7:09
Speaker 2: me a really amazing opportunity to look back at my
7:11
Speaker 2: life and see where I am. Probably give me a
7:15
Speaker 2: chance to evaluate things that I need to improve on,
7:19
Speaker 2: things I need to make right, things that I don't need.
7:23
Speaker 2: And you know, really, more and more I feel that
7:26
Speaker 2: we need less. The simpler my life is, the better,
7:30
Speaker 2: and the more I enjoy it. Yeah, And I guess
7:33
Speaker 2: is that age or is that just I think a
7:35
Speaker 2: realization a bit of both.
7:36
Speaker 3: I think it's both.
7:38
Speaker 1: And I think that we society has pushed us so
7:43
Speaker 1: hard towards things that a couple of us are finally
7:48
Speaker 1: realizing like and maybe it comes later in life that
7:51
Speaker 1: that stuff doesn't bring us happiness. It's our experiences, it's
7:54
Speaker 1: the people that we love. Those are the things that
7:56
Speaker 1: bring us joy, or probably our dogs to you know,
7:59
Speaker 1: those are the things that bring us and those are
8:00
Speaker 1: the things that bring us bring us joy. Absolutely. So
8:04
Speaker 1: where did you grow up in the UK.
8:06
Speaker 2: So no, I spent my life, my childhood in South Africa.
8:10
Speaker 2: Oh you did, yeah, yeah, So I grew up from
8:12
Speaker 2: South African or the last time I looked about Plassport,
8:15
Speaker 2: I was. I grew up in South Africa. I spent
8:20
Speaker 2: a childhood exploring. My challenge was always together. I was
8:25
Speaker 2: a wonderer kid. I think we have our birthdays are
8:27
Speaker 2: two days apart, and we sagittarians, so we explore by nature.
8:33
Speaker 2: And Max is similar, he's a few days after us.
8:35
Speaker 2: But the reality is that I think my nature it
8:38
Speaker 2: was always I loved just exploring. And the real crux
8:43
Speaker 2: from my overlanding came when a guy called U Barnard
8:46
Speaker 2: from Pinduca Safaris through a contact connected with me and
8:51
Speaker 2: he needed someone to help him on a trip going
8:53
Speaker 2: into Africa taking some tourists on a trip, and he
8:58
Speaker 2: needed someone to driver forty five series land cruise and
9:01
Speaker 2: my name was put forward and I went and met him,
9:04
Speaker 2: and I spent a couple of years working with him,
9:06
Speaker 2: and I learned so much from a man who had
9:09
Speaker 2: a connection with nature, the bush, the bushmen, the animals.
9:14
Speaker 2: He could you could walk and he could tell you
9:16
Speaker 2: anything and everything about the bush. It was probably something
9:20
Speaker 2: that sunk deep into my being at this is what
9:24
Speaker 2: life could really be, really to connect with nature in
9:27
Speaker 2: this way. I mean, we would camp, we'd have elephants
9:30
Speaker 2: walking through the camp. We'd had a line sitting around
9:33
Speaker 2: the fire. The one day a group of us and
9:36
Speaker 2: this lioness walked literally a meter from behind us, and
9:40
Speaker 2: he just calmly said to everyone, don't move, just stay still.
9:44
Speaker 2: And the more you understand nature, the more you realize
9:46
Speaker 2: that actually there's a balance in nature, there's a harmony.
9:50
Speaker 2: We probably out of sync with that, you know. So
9:54
Speaker 2: that that spurred a lot. But when I was ten,
9:59
Speaker 2: I sat and a mountain hut and an old man
10:02
Speaker 2: looked at me across an old bench and he said
10:06
Speaker 2: to me, what's your dream? That was kind of quite daunting,
10:10
Speaker 2: and with clarity, absolute clarity, I told them I'm going
10:13
Speaker 2: to drive through Africa now, you know? At ten, Yeah,
10:17
Speaker 2: he said really, I said, yeah, you know, South Africa
10:20
Speaker 2: sanctions against it. There was very little possibility of driving
10:24
Speaker 2: through Africa. And he said to me, said, I'm going
10:26
Speaker 2: to give you some advice. If you focus on your
10:29
Speaker 2: dream every day for ten minutes, you'll realize your dream.
10:33
Speaker 2: And I took that too hot, to the point that
10:36
Speaker 2: every time I saw an overland truck, mostly the Germans
10:39
Speaker 2: or the Dutch who came through Africa, I would stop
10:41
Speaker 2: and talk to them and clean as much as I could.
10:43
Speaker 2: And then I worked with Penduca Safaris, which gave me
10:46
Speaker 2: an in depth, deeper yearning for the bush. This was
10:49
Speaker 2: going to happen, and the dream was there. It was
10:52
Speaker 2: going to be on a motorbike first, and I'd met
10:55
Speaker 2: my girlfriend and it was a very nice tenaire Yamar
10:58
Speaker 2: Tinery promptly went and offered to buy it from the guy,
11:02
Speaker 2: and eventually came to a point that if I was
11:05
Speaker 2: going to go through Africa, would I do it with
11:07
Speaker 2: my girlfriend? And why not? And I would actually say
11:10
Speaker 2: that was probably the best decision I made, was to
11:12
Speaker 2: do it with her, because it's lonely at times to
11:16
Speaker 2: share something like that by yourself. You know, you meet
11:20
Speaker 2: you when you travel alone, and I think that's really good.
11:22
Speaker 2: I did numerous motorbike trips and I really enjoyed that
11:26
Speaker 2: solitude where you get to ride out on that road
11:30
Speaker 2: and you meet you. You know, there's you're talking to you,
11:34
Speaker 2: that loneliness at nights, you you break down somewhere. But
11:38
Speaker 2: that's growing those growing pains. It's scary, it's challenging at times.
11:44
Speaker 2: But taking that trip and going on this trip through Africa,
11:50
Speaker 2: which I told there was three months to start, but
11:52
Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be a year, and
11:53
Speaker 2: it ended up it ended up being one and a
11:55
Speaker 2: half years. Wow, it is amazing. No, we actually we
11:59
Speaker 2: took a full will drive. I had a friend who
12:02
Speaker 2: owned a Highlux and I said to him, I said,
12:04
Speaker 2: I'm going to drive your high Lucks through Africa. And
12:08
Speaker 2: I had a workshop in Johannesburg and I built up
12:10
Speaker 2: a golf GTI and I basically said to him his wife,
12:14
Speaker 2: when the truck broke down, brought it to my workshop
12:17
Speaker 2: and I gave her the keys of the golf, and
12:18
Speaker 2: I said, thank you for the Highlux. And then I
12:21
Speaker 2: phoned him and told him that I've now acquired his Highlights.
12:25
Speaker 3: And she was going.
12:26
Speaker 2: She loved the golf, she hated the Highlux. So he
12:30
Speaker 2: just the profanity that came down the pis. But I
12:34
Speaker 2: promised you to, so I stripped that vehicle out.
12:37
Speaker 3: Was the Highlights.
12:37
Speaker 2: It was a nineteen eighty one or eighty two, as.
12:41
Speaker 3: An old jo slightly rounded from asset.
12:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I took that highlux. Was it diesel or
12:48
Speaker 2: it was a petrol, but the motor was no good,
12:50
Speaker 2: and so I took the I put a twenty two
12:52
Speaker 2: our Cressida engine in which I got the twenty two
12:56
Speaker 2: RIL left the four speed gearbox, made all the mistakes
12:59
Speaker 2: you could leave. I had a garage packed with stuff.
13:02
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I had two hundred and twenty
13:04
Speaker 2: eight drum for water, because that's all I could get.
13:08
Speaker 2: You know, I had no money. Yeah, that was kind
13:11
Speaker 2: of there was like water. I just plumped it in
13:13
Speaker 2: the back and I thought, that'll work for water. I'm
13:15
Speaker 2: not going to run out of water. I had. It
13:18
Speaker 2: was nicely laid out, but you know, and I was meticulous.
13:22
Speaker 2: I stripped it right down to the last nutting bolt.
13:25
Speaker 2: I would never do that again. It wasn't worth it.
13:28
Speaker 2: But I had a lot of fun. I learned so
13:30
Speaker 2: much about what it would take to put a truck together.
13:34
Speaker 2: Not at that time, I mean we're talking almost thirty
13:36
Speaker 2: years ago. Yeah, you know, when you went through Africa,
13:40
Speaker 2: you didn't have GPS. There were no sad phones that
13:42
Speaker 2: we could certainly afford or look at. So it was
13:45
Speaker 2: the Michelin map, compass and whatever map you could buy
13:49
Speaker 2: in the country. And when you drove travel yeah, yeah, exactly,
13:53
Speaker 2: and you'd pass someone on the road and you'd flash
13:55
Speaker 2: your head lights and you'd stop and you'd take the
13:57
Speaker 2: map out, and you'd make some tea and you'd swap
14:00
Speaker 2: information and write it on the map. Sure, and then
14:04
Speaker 2: you'd have your friends would write to the general post
14:07
Speaker 2: office and send mail. So if you're lucky enough, you
14:10
Speaker 2: pitch up at a post office, let's say like a Nairobi,
14:14
Speaker 2: and you go and stand in the queue that said
14:15
Speaker 2: post restunt. Most people don't know what post a stunt is,
14:19
Speaker 2: but postal stunt was where you could mail a letter
14:21
Speaker 2: to the post office, put the person's name on and
14:24
Speaker 2: just write their post restant, which basically meant it would
14:27
Speaker 2: be held by the post office for a period of
14:29
Speaker 2: time until you came and collected it. There might be
14:32
Speaker 2: months before you pitch up, but generally you go and
14:35
Speaker 2: if you're lucky to get some mail. That was really
14:38
Speaker 2: exciting to get a mail from someone. So we did that,
14:41
Speaker 2: and then we took a little bit postcards and did
14:44
Speaker 2: you go up west or east aff We went up East.
14:47
Speaker 2: We basically decided to go and explore the East, and
14:50
Speaker 2: so each country we had a postcard and we used
14:53
Speaker 2: to write little things on the postcard then fill them
14:55
Speaker 2: out and mail them back. So you know, at that time,
14:59
Speaker 2: the way you made contacts was to talk to people.
15:03
Speaker 2: And Nicki, Mike's wife was a GP and she worked
15:06
Speaker 2: in Botswana, so we had kind of a delic in
15:09
Speaker 2: one way, we make medical mechanical team between us, and
15:13
Speaker 2: every contact she made we wrote down, you know, the contact,
15:17
Speaker 2: and we'd you're go and stay with people. You wouldn't
15:20
Speaker 2: you just pitch up really for tea. You go and
15:22
Speaker 2: have some tea.
15:23
Speaker 3: And next thing you know.
15:24
Speaker 2: You're staying. And if it got more than a day
15:27
Speaker 2: or two, I'd feel bad and I wanted to go
15:29
Speaker 2: and get a list from them, start fixing stuff around
15:31
Speaker 2: the house. So it was very special and I think
15:36
Speaker 2: that trip at that time, I got support from an
15:40
Speaker 2: amazing guy who owned a motorbike company in South Africa
15:42
Speaker 2: and is sadly passed on side ticker Ray and Ray
15:48
Speaker 2: owned this motorbike company and then I remember going to
15:51
Speaker 2: poured out the knowledge and what he had, so going
15:56
Speaker 2: and getting information like we do today you didn't get it.
16:00
Speaker 2: You actually you found what you could along the way,
16:05
Speaker 2: so you know, you things would happen in the country
16:07
Speaker 2: and you wouldn't be aware of it until someone maybe
16:09
Speaker 2: you phoned home, and they go, do you know what's
16:11
Speaker 2: happening in the country, Well, not really, not affecting me.
16:15
Speaker 2: And isn't that a lessons such a way? How many
16:18
Speaker 2: times have you been through a country where something's happening
16:20
Speaker 2: and actually it's not really affecting the whole country, but
16:23
Speaker 2: it's been blown out of proportion by the press.
16:25
Speaker 1: Usually mostly it's usually highly regionalized.
16:29
Speaker 2: So sad. So yeah, that was one and a half years,
16:34
Speaker 2: seventy thousand kilometers.
16:35
Speaker 3: And then did you end up back in South Africa
16:37
Speaker 3: or we did?
16:38
Speaker 2: Actually we went we were intending to drive through all
16:41
Speaker 2: the way through. We could have gone through Sudan and Egypt,
16:44
Speaker 2: although it was really risky at the time. Then and
16:46
Speaker 2: we got into Eritrea, which is phenomenal. I love er Tria,
16:51
Speaker 2: and Ethiopia was totally different. You know, you go from
16:54
Speaker 2: Kenya and northern Kenya and to Ethiopia and it was
16:56
Speaker 2: so different, so I really thoroughly enjoy So we spent
17:00
Speaker 2: months in countries, you know, just really exploring and staying
17:04
Speaker 2: with people and staying with local folk, and yeah, you
17:07
Speaker 2: know it was it was an incredible experience. We drove
17:10
Speaker 2: all the way back down, got married, and went to
17:13
Speaker 2: the UK, and that's when Blast was born in the UK.
17:17
Speaker 1: And that was did you go to the UK with
17:20
Speaker 1: the intention of creating foots?
17:24
Speaker 2: You know? Initially? Not initially? When I went to the UK,
17:27
Speaker 2: I really wasn't sure what I was going to do.
17:28
Speaker 2: I'd sold up my business that I had here, which
17:30
Speaker 2: was the workshop repairing and building vehicles, and we did
17:34
Speaker 2: a lot of jeeps and full drives and old cars
17:37
Speaker 2: nowadays lestic cars. So and I loved that I had
17:40
Speaker 2: a great business and it was good finances and good
17:42
Speaker 2: partners and one not so good partner. But the point
17:46
Speaker 2: was when I got there, I really wasn't sure coming
17:50
Speaker 2: to the UK. It's first world and what would it
17:54
Speaker 2: be like? And I think, you know what you do
17:56
Speaker 2: is you embrace the situation and you figure out. And
17:59
Speaker 2: the first thing which was so fascinating is Jack from
18:03
Speaker 2: easy On Jess his father came over and he was
18:06
Speaker 2: going to sell his land Cruiser Troopy. He driven through Africa.
18:10
Speaker 2: They wanted to sell it, and I ended up selling
18:14
Speaker 2: his trooper for him, which is another story he might share.
18:17
Speaker 2: But I saw the fact that roof tents needed to
18:21
Speaker 2: come into England, so he agreed that you'd fly four
18:25
Speaker 2: in and I would fit them and we'd see how
18:28
Speaker 2: it went. So the first tent, it was the middle
18:31
Speaker 2: of winter. I ended up fitting on a land drover
18:33
Speaker 2: and a big top haull in that I draped over everything.
18:36
Speaker 2: And I was busy fitting this tent onto this land
18:38
Speaker 2: drove and some guy came and pepped me on the shoulder.
18:41
Speaker 2: And he was a farm manager and we were living
18:42
Speaker 2: on a farm, and he said, listen, you can't be
18:45
Speaker 2: doing this. I've got a barn. Don't you want to
18:47
Speaker 2: come and look at it? So he opened this barn
18:51
Speaker 2: and it was top to tail full of stuff. I mean,
18:53
Speaker 2: you could have gone back fifty years or eighty years
18:56
Speaker 2: with farming implements, full mess. It took me three weeks
19:00
Speaker 2: to clear it and to pack it and to sort
19:03
Speaker 2: it and to make some space. And that's where I
19:05
Speaker 2: started footloot, literally working out of a bar on a
19:09
Speaker 2: farm that we lived on called Sacroel Farm, just outside Peterborough,
19:14
Speaker 2: and It was tough. It was really hard, you know,
19:16
Speaker 2: by yourself. I'd worked for a local company and kind
19:20
Speaker 2: of figured it wasn't going to work. Sure, and the
19:22
Speaker 2: whole four bar four industry was the UK's predominant land rovers,
19:27
Speaker 2: so you know, and then there's the off roading and
19:30
Speaker 2: there's no other landing really in a big way at
19:32
Speaker 2: that time. But the rooftop tent. The first show, I
19:35
Speaker 2: went to a friend and I put this rooftop tent,
19:38
Speaker 2: a one point two meter on the roof of his
19:40
Speaker 2: ninety parked it at Billing land Rovers show. Sure, the
19:44
Speaker 2: two of us. Now, he's a big guy and he's
19:46
Speaker 2: dog fast asleep, and we wake up the next morning
19:48
Speaker 2: and there's twenty people around this lender. What the hell
19:51
Speaker 2: is this contraption on top of the roof?
19:53
Speaker 4: Yeah?
19:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that, actually, I guess was one of the
19:57
Speaker 2: key things that gave me hope that that there was
20:00
Speaker 2: going to be possibility to do something in the UK. Yeah,
20:03
Speaker 2: you know, products from South Africa that you bring into
20:07
Speaker 2: the UK and launch and then probably educate in the way.
20:11
Speaker 2: I had experience in Africa and I saw, well, you know,
20:14
Speaker 2: the overlanding is something that people need to know about Yeah,
20:17
Speaker 2: this is not just off roading where you're playing in
20:19
Speaker 2: the mud and dirt and the trucks are built in
20:21
Speaker 2: a very different way. So you know, the business developed
20:25
Speaker 2: to build up where we bought in, brought in container
20:27
Speaker 2: loads of stock from South Africa of roof tense, ground
20:30
Speaker 2: tense fridges, battery management systems and you know, the business
20:34
Speaker 2: grew up slowly.
20:34
Speaker 1: And I heard Ess the other day told me that
20:37
Speaker 1: I've known you for over thirty years.
20:39
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, they they're just a great family.
20:44
Speaker 1: Wonderful family that yeah we're talking about easy on but yeah,
20:48
Speaker 1: what an incredible family business, family legacy for sure.
20:51
Speaker 2: And you know what it is, it's the relationships you build.
20:54
Speaker 2: And I've realized that, you know, in the UK, for me,
20:57
Speaker 2: it was about building relationships between companies. You know, if
21:00
Speaker 2: you're my competitor, we can work together in a way
21:03
Speaker 2: and why not. You know, it's such a naive thing
21:07
Speaker 2: to think that there's not enough business or there isn't it.
21:09
Speaker 2: I have to keep my bit and do that. And
21:11
Speaker 2: it's sad because I think the world we live in,
21:16
Speaker 2: it's fast the opportunity. There are more people who don't
21:19
Speaker 2: know they want to go on and overland trip than
21:21
Speaker 2: those who do.
21:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a zero sum game and that's unfortunate.
21:25
Speaker 1: Most people feel that if a competitor succeeds, then that's
21:30
Speaker 1: taken away from them, and it's not true. Yeah, it's
21:33
Speaker 1: not a zero sum game. There's unlimited possibilities and unlimited
21:38
Speaker 1: options in being successful. The best thing that you can
21:41
Speaker 1: do is stay true to your own vision. Yeah, and
21:45
Speaker 1: not be jealous when someone else has a moment of success,
21:48
Speaker 1: because you will come to if you keep the right attitude.
21:51
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, and that's probably the hardest thing, you know.
21:54
Speaker 2: In the UK, footlist was born, and the footlist was
21:57
Speaker 2: about preparing the vehicle and the people. And quite quickly
22:02
Speaker 2: I realized that actually people came to me with dreams.
22:05
Speaker 2: Probably most of them had never driven a full ward drive.
22:08
Speaker 2: That was interesting for me to see. They had a
22:10
Speaker 2: dream to drive through Africa. That was a big thing.
22:13
Speaker 2: When I drive from London to Cape Town, some on
22:15
Speaker 2: the West coast, some on the East coast. At that time,
22:18
Speaker 2: both were doable, very easy, and you could get through
22:22
Speaker 2: West Coast is challenging with a different type of trip,
22:25
Speaker 2: the roads and all that. So it was a fascinating
22:29
Speaker 2: opportunity to take and a privilege actually to take someone's
22:32
Speaker 2: dream in your hands and then help them make it
22:35
Speaker 2: come true. As I'd had help in my time, I
22:38
Speaker 2: wanted to pay it forward, and I think that's been
22:41
Speaker 2: the basis of how I've lived my working career, is
22:46
Speaker 2: to pay it forward in a way that I believe
22:48
Speaker 2: is true to who I am. Every time I travel,
22:52
Speaker 2: when I go, I'm humbled, and I'm humbled by people
22:56
Speaker 2: who have less than me, who give me more than
22:58
Speaker 2: I could even begin to appreciate. I'm humbled by the
23:02
Speaker 2: roads that you go on, which take you to places
23:04
Speaker 2: that are just surreal. Someone dug that road, someone made
23:08
Speaker 2: that road, you know, seeing people build roads by hand
23:11
Speaker 2: with rock and stone in northern Vietnam, is it brings
23:15
Speaker 2: tears to your eyes, you know. So it's it's it's
23:19
Speaker 2: it's it's such the opportunity of what do you want
23:22
Speaker 2: and how do you want to achieve it? And if
23:24
Speaker 2: you can help and I can play a small part
23:26
Speaker 2: in someone's someone's opportunity to focus and have their dream.
23:32
Speaker 2: And so that was that was a very good time
23:35
Speaker 2: in my life where not only was I able to
23:37
Speaker 2: do that for other people, but I certainly had time
23:39
Speaker 2: for my own trips. And then that's that was something
23:43
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed. You know, u K was a great
23:45
Speaker 2: base to travel from up It's very central.
23:48
Speaker 1: And it is you, and there's a there's a desire
23:53
Speaker 1: for that kind of travel, get to get out of
23:56
Speaker 1: sometimes the weather, sometimes the crowds.
23:59
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I think that that was part of it.
24:02
Speaker 2: I mean it was for us, it was well, I
24:04
Speaker 2: guess the reason I stayed so long was I could travel,
24:08
Speaker 2: you know, and to go and explore amazing parts of
24:10
Speaker 2: the world and you know, across every continent on different
24:13
Speaker 2: trips and expeditions. And I got involved in classic car
24:16
Speaker 2: rallying and that came back to the story when Jack's
24:18
Speaker 2: lang Cruiser came to England and I had a guy
24:23
Speaker 2: who phoned me up. His name was Terrence, and he
24:25
Speaker 2: said to me, Paul, I'm doing this classic car rally
24:28
Speaker 2: to drive from London to Cape Town with eighty old cars,
24:31
Speaker 2: forty classic cars and forty four war drives. I'm thinking
24:34
Speaker 2: of taking my Bentley, but your Cruiser looks like it
24:38
Speaker 2: might be an option. So anyway, I said he needed
24:41
Speaker 2: to come and look at the car, and he came
24:44
Speaker 2: to the farm the next day and I'd read up
24:46
Speaker 2: about this rally, this classic car rally and four drives,
24:49
Speaker 2: and then I'd read up about this guy, Terrence. It
24:53
Speaker 2: was a gentleman called Sir Terence English. Now so Terrence
24:57
Speaker 2: English is math for those who don't know him. The
25:00
Speaker 2: first heart transplant, successful heart transplant in England. And you know,
25:05
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what a SVE was. He sat
25:08
Speaker 2: down and said, Terrence, well, what is the serb business about?
25:11
Speaker 2: And he is such a humble man and he, you know,
25:13
Speaker 2: he explained and he said, well, you know, I did
25:14
Speaker 2: a bit of heart surgery and we'll talk about that sometime.
25:17
Speaker 2: But the long and the short was I got involved
25:20
Speaker 2: in classic car ralling because this rally needed someone we
25:23
Speaker 2: had a bit of experience in Africa, and he vouched
25:26
Speaker 2: for me and put my name up and I had
25:28
Speaker 2: a lunch with the guys and was invited to be
25:30
Speaker 2: on the rally to go add the Africa experience.
25:34
Speaker 1: So they so they had many classic cars and then
25:38
Speaker 1: a group before.
25:40
Speaker 2: So it was a combination of both and it's it's
25:43
Speaker 2: a big event. I mean I wonn't do many, I
25:45
Speaker 2: won't do any more big big events like that. Again,
25:47
Speaker 2: it's very risky and dangerous.
25:50
Speaker 3: You know, it's not feelm makes it risky.
25:52
Speaker 2: People take unnecessary chances, and I think you know that
25:55
Speaker 2: happens in in people going on overland travel by themselves
26:00
Speaker 2: that can necessary risks, partly because they maybe are not
26:05
Speaker 2: prepared properly. They don't take on the responsibility. But when
26:08
Speaker 2: you get an environment with a group of people together
26:11
Speaker 2: and you're chasing a competitive age, and now it's a race,
26:15
Speaker 2: although it shouldn't be a race, it's it's the time trial.
26:19
Speaker 2: Things go wrong and when they go wrong, they go
26:21
Speaker 2: wrong big time. And when you start unraveling what rent
26:24
Speaker 2: wrong and why, which I do for all the sort
26:26
Speaker 2: of situations that have happened, you start seeing that people
26:30
Speaker 2: broke basic rules, you know, rules that you need to
26:33
Speaker 2: commit to yourself if you're going to travel. You know,
26:36
Speaker 2: traveling is not like a holiday. People get that really
26:39
Speaker 2: mixed up. You're going to when you go on vacation,
26:42
Speaker 2: you are going to a place you familiar with, the responsibility.
26:46
Speaker 2: The stress is taken away from you to give you
26:48
Speaker 2: that time out. When you're going on an expedition, you
26:51
Speaker 2: embrace all that. You embrace the responsibility. You embrace the change.
26:55
Speaker 2: The stress is the changing environment. So it's a lot
26:58
Speaker 2: to take on. But if you don't manage your your
27:03
Speaker 2: own well being, your hydration, your concentration, your sleep, all light,
27:10
Speaker 2: it's all plays a part and things start undermining and
27:12
Speaker 2: going wrong. Quickly, something goes wrong, and you know, when
27:15
Speaker 2: something starts to go wrong, it spirals and the end
27:19
Speaker 2: results exactly. The end result is the catastrophic accident that
27:23
Speaker 2: happened was really a small thing in the beginning which
27:27
Speaker 2: started going wrong. So it's important and I try and
27:30
Speaker 2: impart that to people that when you travel, you absolutely
27:34
Speaker 2: put boundaries in place with how you're going to travel,
27:38
Speaker 2: not driving at night. I mean, it seems so obvious,
27:40
Speaker 2: but people do things go wrong, Accidents happen, you know,
27:44
Speaker 2: not driving when you tie it, hydrating yourself, you know,
27:47
Speaker 2: understanding the risks you're going to take on being responsible
27:52
Speaker 2: in what you do know. And I advocate that in
27:55
Speaker 2: a big way because I think as overlanding is becoming
27:59
Speaker 2: more popular and more accessible to people, it's people are
28:05
Speaker 2: taking less responsibility.
28:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, because a lot of a lot of the difficulties
28:10
Speaker 1: been removed. Now you have GPS, reliable communication, you have
28:17
Speaker 1: much better roads in a lot of countries.
28:19
Speaker 3: Like you should drive up East Africa. It's paved the whole.
28:21
Speaker 2: Way now exactly you don't have to drive the page,
28:25
Speaker 2: but it's but it's there.
28:26
Speaker 3: But you you feel like you can come back to
28:28
Speaker 3: that lifeline.
28:29
Speaker 2: Yes, And but do you think that's wrong?
28:32
Speaker 1: I do not think it's wrong. But I think it
28:35
Speaker 1: results in some of that complacency.
28:38
Speaker 3: I think it. I think it can result in some
28:40
Speaker 3: of that lack of a hiredness.
28:43
Speaker 1: But we're in we're in unique places that that are
28:46
Speaker 1: dynamic and things can change very quickly. You know, there
28:50
Speaker 1: were several Overlanders that were in Sudan when the fighting
28:54
Speaker 1: kicked off. You know, it's it's about being having a plan.
28:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's about being prepared. You know,
29:02
Speaker 2: the scenarios that I often talk about the clients I go,
29:05
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about scenarios, the what ifs. You know,
29:08
Speaker 2: what if you knock an animal over? How would you
29:12
Speaker 2: deal with it? What if you knock a child over?
29:14
Speaker 2: How a you're going to deal with it? Okay, Now,
29:17
Speaker 2: you never want to put the fear of garden to people,
29:20
Speaker 2: but at least if you've thought about the scenario. You've
29:22
Speaker 2: already got a plan of action, you've already got numbers
29:26
Speaker 2: to hand, you've already got you know, a medical incident.
29:30
Speaker 2: You know, accident management is quite often overlooked when people
29:34
Speaker 2: go traveling. Yeah, and it happens and then suddenly, you know,
29:37
Speaker 2: it's the biggest risk you take and ask people, what
29:39
Speaker 2: do you think the biggest risk is on your expedition?
29:42
Speaker 2: You know, so it's accident, your biggest risk. Massive. It's
29:47
Speaker 2: like the thing that can go wrong, and when it
29:48
Speaker 2: goes wrong, it can go so horribly wrong and you
29:50
Speaker 2: can be in the wrong place with no communication. So
29:52
Speaker 2: how do we mitigate that and how do we prepare
29:54
Speaker 2: for that.
29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely not the bandidos that people will it's
29:58
Speaker 1: really hot. I mean people really do the boogeyman that
30:02
Speaker 1: they envision in travel. That is a very rare thing. Yeah,
30:08
Speaker 1: I mean in all of my travels it's been one time.
30:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, it's just very very rare.
30:13
Speaker 1: But the amount of close calls that I've had driving, Yes,
30:17
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I was not tired. I'm glad that
30:19
Speaker 1: I was not driving at night. I'm glad that I
30:21
Speaker 1: was in a properly heard vehicle. If any one of
30:24
Speaker 1: those things had been different, it could have resulted in
30:26
Speaker 1: a very different outcome.
30:29
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I did have that. You know, I
30:31
Speaker 2: was inn a rally around South America with one hundred vehicles.
30:35
Speaker 2: That sounds insane, and it was. We had fifty classic cars,
30:38
Speaker 2: we had fifty four wheel drives. We're driving a right
30:41
Speaker 2: pretty much Rio, Lima, Lima, Tota fuego and back up.
30:44
Speaker 2: So it was a three month rally and the friend
30:48
Speaker 2: next to me was an orthopedic surgeon. We were the
30:50
Speaker 2: last truck. We were the last truck, the sweep truck
30:53
Speaker 2: for the entire rally. So over the course of the rally,
30:56
Speaker 2: we'd been getting more tired. There were more accidents to
30:59
Speaker 2: deal with, more people getting lost, and were more breakdowns
31:02
Speaker 2: as you'd expect, more roads, not you destroying cars and
31:06
Speaker 2: people struggling. Three months is a long time to the
31:09
Speaker 2: point that in you know, in the Uruguay, I lost
31:13
Speaker 2: control of my vehicle and I flipped it and rolled
31:16
Speaker 2: it six times and broke my neck, you know, And
31:18
Speaker 2: I think we've shared the story, but for those who
31:20
Speaker 2: are listening, it was something that I could have avoided.
31:25
Speaker 2: Broke all the rules that I should have. We had
31:27
Speaker 2: little no sleep for three days. We were racing to
31:29
Speaker 2: catch the rally. We're in a remote part of Uruguay.
31:33
Speaker 2: Thank God and thank the Angels that the set phone
31:37
Speaker 2: we hung up in the car normally that we could
31:39
Speaker 2: answer it quickly we'd put in the glove box. That
31:41
Speaker 2: morning it did and it didn't get crushed. And also
31:45
Speaker 2: Mark sitting next to me, is an air bag went
31:47
Speaker 2: off and he was able to climb up the vehicle
31:50
Speaker 2: and pull me out. The truck dripped me call for help,
31:55
Speaker 2: where a military helicopter came in to pick us up.
31:58
Speaker 2: You know. And I had very good medical in a
32:00
Speaker 2: third world country, well third wall, I can call Uruguay
32:03
Speaker 2: third one. I'd say the medical care I had was
32:06
Speaker 2: some one of the best in the world because the
32:08
Speaker 2: neck surgeon was one of the best in the world.
32:12
Speaker 2: I was blessed. So I'm sitting here today with a
32:14
Speaker 2: series of circumstances where I had no control of the outcome.
32:20
Speaker 2: I was very fortunate to have goods surround medical all that,
32:25
Speaker 2: but I had control of the situation before the before
32:28
Speaker 2: the accident, and that's that's the crux. So where do
32:33
Speaker 2: we draw that line. You know, you get in the car,
32:35
Speaker 2: people arrive ready to go on their trip. The first
32:38
Speaker 2: night is five six hundred kilometers. They've flown in their
32:41
Speaker 2: jet lag, they're really tired, they've been stressed out to
32:44
Speaker 2: try and finish up work and wrap up stuff. What
32:47
Speaker 2: are the risks they high in the first few days
32:51
Speaker 2: until you settle into your trip. Sure, so yeah, it's
32:56
Speaker 2: it's it's a learning and I only all I can
32:58
Speaker 2: say is that to pass up those learnings I think
33:02
Speaker 2: of usually valuable.
33:04
Speaker 1: And I also think that's where it comes back to responsibility.
33:08
Speaker 1: Like you talked about earlier, I think that that is
33:11
Speaker 1: something that needs to be covered more often because as
33:18
Speaker 1: a traveler, we're recreating. We're literally even though it's some
33:23
Speaker 1: people may call things an expedition or whatever, but we're
33:27
Speaker 1: doing it usually for fun.
33:30
Speaker 3: So we have a responsibility to not.
33:33
Speaker 1: Put kids and villages at risk because we're driving tired,
33:37
Speaker 1: or we're driving late at night. We have responsibility for
33:40
Speaker 1: all the other people in the car with us. We
33:43
Speaker 1: have a responsibility for ourselves and the impact that that
33:47
Speaker 1: would have on our families if we were be injured
33:50
Speaker 1: or killed. So you're right, it's really important to get
33:53
Speaker 1: back to the fact that there are many simple things
33:57
Speaker 1: that you can do, boundaries that you can put the
34:00
Speaker 1: place with yourself. And I think about the times, well,
34:03
Speaker 1: the time I had an attempt at carjacking driving at night,
34:07
Speaker 1: lading two in the morning, there we go, and there
34:11
Speaker 1: was a bunch of other things that I did after that,
34:14
Speaker 1: but that was the one that actually got me into
34:15
Speaker 1: the spot. I just pulled off the road and camp
34:18
Speaker 1: instead of trying to rush to keep up. It would
34:21
Speaker 1: have been a different outcome. Ye, Any of the close
34:25
Speaker 1: calls that I've had is usually because it's I'm tired.
34:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, tired, And you know, you don't realize how tired
34:32
Speaker 2: you get just the speed. You know, we talk about
34:35
Speaker 2: speed and people driving at different speeds, and if you're
34:38
Speaker 2: driving it eighty kilometers now ninety, even one hundred compared
34:43
Speaker 2: to one to twenty, you relax so much more. And
34:45
Speaker 2: if you get your seat posture right, you can relax
34:48
Speaker 2: even better and you don't have a salt back. So
34:50
Speaker 2: you know that it's not just the preparation isn't about
34:54
Speaker 2: always building the truck. The preparation comes in your well being.
34:58
Speaker 2: It comes in your mental preparation for the trip with
35:02
Speaker 2: yourself and your partner. And that's what Joe and I
35:05
Speaker 2: are doing. You know, we're working hard on our YouTube
35:08
Speaker 2: channel with the Essence of Overlanding, and that is really
35:11
Speaker 2: about enabling people to share their wisdom and their stories
35:15
Speaker 2: and their knowledge. But where did it come first? Where
35:17
Speaker 2: did the preparation start? People talk always about the truck,
35:22
Speaker 2: and I think that's actually the personal preparation Sometimes. Are
35:27
Speaker 2: you on the same page, is your dream? Are you
35:30
Speaker 2: both together? Are you walking? Is that river flowing? Is
35:33
Speaker 2: it two separate rivers flowing or is it one flowing together?
35:37
Speaker 2: And it can become one flowing together.
35:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it requires good communication.
35:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's such an important point that you made
35:45
Speaker 1: about just speed over ground. You know, I used to
35:49
Speaker 1: drive much faster than I do now, and at the
35:53
Speaker 1: time I probably felt a little more confident for that
35:55
Speaker 1: because I was actively racing too.
35:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my skill.
36:00
Speaker 1: Were at the best that I could have given those circumstances.
36:06
Speaker 1: But I have steadily slowed down with time because I
36:10
Speaker 1: feel like I'm more relaxed, I have more options. Going
36:15
Speaker 1: one forty as opposed to one hundred. Your difference, that's
36:19
Speaker 1: a big difference. Now A lot of these vehicles today
36:21
Speaker 1: will do one hundred and forty k and now we're
36:23
Speaker 1: down the road, but you're forty percent deeper.
36:26
Speaker 3: Into the problem.
36:29
Speaker 2: That's true.
36:30
Speaker 1: So you've given yourself just a chance to slow down
36:34
Speaker 1: in time. If you slow it down a little bit,
36:37
Speaker 1: the vehicle gets better fuel economy, the car is less stressed.
36:40
Speaker 1: You know, you're less likely to get policed by the police.
36:43
Speaker 1: All those things start to improve. So it is really important.
36:47
Speaker 1: Just because you can drive fast, or just because you
36:51
Speaker 1: spent twenty thousand dollars on the suspension to be able
36:53
Speaker 1: to drive fast, doesn't mean you should.
36:55
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because you know, maybe as a
36:58
Speaker 2: beautiful country, you know, it's stunning. It has some of
37:01
Speaker 2: the best dirt roads in the world.
37:04
Speaker 3: Okay, everybody's ray.
37:06
Speaker 2: They're on the road. They can do one twenty because
37:09
Speaker 2: the locals can. The locals are on an empty car
37:11
Speaker 2: and they've got a fully prep car. What they don't
37:14
Speaker 2: realize is that the highest incidents of rollovers in the
37:17
Speaker 2: world happen on roads like that where you're driving way
37:21
Speaker 2: too fast. You need to compensate, you haven't adjusted tire pressures,
37:25
Speaker 2: or you don't quite understand tip pressures, you have suspensions
37:28
Speaker 2: maybe not set up, although you've got the fancy shocks
37:30
Speaker 2: you can adjust. So that's where you've got to come
37:34
Speaker 2: back and slow down. You know, before you head off,
37:37
Speaker 2: did you really take that test trip and take time
37:39
Speaker 2: to learn those skills about tire pressures, about controlling your
37:45
Speaker 2: vehicle on a dirt road, what to do. So that's
37:48
Speaker 2: that's the responsibility if we come back to that, you know,
37:51
Speaker 2: and I think it's probably something I spend more time
37:54
Speaker 2: on when I'm discussing and training people that that's critical.
37:59
Speaker 1: That's a gift for that that you do that, that
38:01
Speaker 1: you take the time to do that. Well, let's move
38:05
Speaker 1: on to I think some of the questions that I
38:08
Speaker 1: have for you, which is when you sit someone because
38:13
Speaker 1: the main service that you provide, as I understand it,
38:16
Speaker 1: is you sit down with travelers that are planning to
38:19
Speaker 1: do cross continent around the world trips and you help
38:23
Speaker 1: them prepare vehicles and themselves to do that. So you're,
38:29
Speaker 1: in every way that I'm aware of, you're the pre
38:32
Speaker 1: eminent overland consultant that can execute on all of the
38:36
Speaker 1: solution sets that someone needs.
38:38
Speaker 3: To go around the world.
38:40
Speaker 1: So I suspect that when you sit down with a
38:44
Speaker 1: traveler that you ask them a series of questions. What
38:47
Speaker 1: are the questions that you ask or the core questions
38:51
Speaker 1: that you ask that you think are important for the
38:53
Speaker 1: listener to consider that you think that they would gain
38:57
Speaker 1: some insights from from your decade of experience.
39:01
Speaker 2: It's a good question, think because I think a lot
39:03
Speaker 2: of the time when people sit down in front of me,
39:07
Speaker 2: I'll ask them how well prepared are they on their journey?
39:11
Speaker 2: And many people have done a lot of research. The
39:14
Speaker 2: Internet's there, you interested, you keen your research. Okay. The
39:18
Speaker 2: problem with research comes a lot of information, and a
39:21
Speaker 2: lot of information leads to a lot of different opinions,
39:25
Speaker 2: and opinions are subjective to circumstance or to application. So
39:30
Speaker 2: now you get someone trying to manage all these different
39:33
Speaker 2: opinions depend who's the better person on the YouTube or
39:37
Speaker 2: the salesperson they've walked into. So that's the biggest challenge
39:41
Speaker 2: I think people have is when you've got all this information,
39:44
Speaker 2: and quite often I find people going down the wrong road.
39:48
Speaker 2: They're driving down that terrible road where that get's going
39:52
Speaker 2: to cost them money pay in aggravation and actually what
39:54
Speaker 2: they didn't want they wanted the much easier road to
39:57
Speaker 2: go and enjoy the journey in a different way. First
40:00
Speaker 2: thing is about understanding who am I with. Who are
40:04
Speaker 2: the couple that are sitting in front of me, who
40:06
Speaker 2: have their dream have come to me for some advice.
40:08
Speaker 2: And if I don't know the answer, I can find
40:10
Speaker 2: the answer out or I can check out something. But
40:13
Speaker 2: my service to them is to give them an opinion
40:17
Speaker 2: that based on years of experience and mistakes and lessons learned,
40:21
Speaker 2: that's going to hopefully avoid them making those same mistakes.
40:24
Speaker 2: Because too often when you go to a business and
40:27
Speaker 2: business is there to generate profit and money. Nothing wrong
40:30
Speaker 2: with that. Sure, businesses buy certain products that they're going
40:34
Speaker 2: to make good margins on and they want to sell them.
40:36
Speaker 2: That's business. I get that, but that doesn't mean to
40:39
Speaker 2: say that's going to serve you and what you want.
40:41
Speaker 2: And all too often I see people going down the
40:44
Speaker 2: road and a business is there someone who's selling the
40:47
Speaker 2: product hasn't got an experience, first of all, of traveling
40:51
Speaker 2: in the way that they should have to give that
40:54
Speaker 2: sort of advice. And if they do have some travel,
40:56
Speaker 2: have they sat down and understood what their clients are need?
40:59
Speaker 2: But they want to tell them everything they think they
41:01
Speaker 2: need before they understand what they need. Sure, that's the
41:04
Speaker 2: key thing is too, you need to understand how do
41:07
Speaker 2: you want to travel? Where do you want to travel?
41:10
Speaker 1: Yes, somebody who's going to yeah, exactly, roof tent might
41:14
Speaker 1: not be the right joy true, ye'd find accommodation every night.
41:18
Speaker 3: That's okay, it's okay, of course.
41:20
Speaker 1: And really understanding instead of selling out something that they
41:23
Speaker 1: don't need.
41:23
Speaker 2: So to understand, you know, what is the experience, what
41:28
Speaker 2: skill sets they have? And sometimes you know yes the
41:30
Speaker 2: key skill sets. If you mechanical is great. Do you
41:34
Speaker 2: need to be a mechanic, No, you don't. I'll teach
41:37
Speaker 2: you to be a good checker though. You learn to
41:39
Speaker 2: check your truck when there's a problem. You'll have a
41:41
Speaker 2: list of spares in your car which we've gone through.
41:44
Speaker 2: We've worked out what you need to carry, spares or pairs,
41:47
Speaker 2: recovery kit, toolkit, first aid kit. So that's in your
41:52
Speaker 2: car with a list. So if you have a problem,
41:54
Speaker 2: be it medical or mechanical, find someone who can help you.
41:57
Speaker 2: You'll find people who are good mechanics, but they won't
42:00
Speaker 2: tools maybe or they won't have the spares with them,
42:02
Speaker 2: but you've checked your car through and not just once
42:05
Speaker 2: a week, once a month, every day you said.
42:08
Speaker 3: It built buy off roaders for off roaders.
42:12
Speaker 4: On X off roads route Builder provides a new solution
42:16
Speaker 4: to your adventure planning with a snap to functionality. Just
42:20
Speaker 4: draw a line with their cursor and the route will
42:22
Speaker 4: automatically snap to the road or trail. Hit save and
42:26
Speaker 4: the route will sync to your mobile device. Now you're
42:31
Speaker 4: ready to hit the trails, go farther with on X
42:34
Speaker 4: off roads route Builders.
42:38
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's got the challenge obviously when you speak
42:41
Speaker 2: into clients to try and understand what they want. Now
42:44
Speaker 2: you can go into a business where it's their business,
42:48
Speaker 2: they buying products to make a margin on it, and
42:52
Speaker 2: people go in there and then they get a whole
42:54
Speaker 2: lot of advice, So they get a whole lot of
42:55
Speaker 2: kit that's maybe fitted to their vehicle, and I think
42:58
Speaker 2: the understanding of where people are going to go with
43:01
Speaker 2: their vehicle and how they might want to travel. Some
43:04
Speaker 2: people don't know what they don't know sure, and that's
43:06
Speaker 2: that's the term I use often because you know, if
43:09
Speaker 2: you haven't gone down that road and you haven't got
43:11
Speaker 2: that experience, and you haven't driven or camped. You need
43:15
Speaker 2: to sort of find out a bit, so how do
43:18
Speaker 2: you you know? And then part of that expiration with
43:21
Speaker 2: with that initial consult or the initial chat that we
43:23
Speaker 2: do is to work through that what is your experience
43:27
Speaker 2: you know, as I said, medical experience and mechanical experience,
43:31
Speaker 2: and then those two key things are sometimes the biggest
43:35
Speaker 2: fear people have. What if I break down, what if
43:37
Speaker 2: I have an accident? Okay, I fear other things that
43:41
Speaker 2: can go wrong. You know, what if you fall out
43:43
Speaker 2: that you haven't actually you're not communicating, and that that
43:47
Speaker 2: becomes the biggest problem you've got. We can mitigate a
43:51
Speaker 2: lot of stuff with a lot of yeah, well, you know,
43:54
Speaker 2: I think it's important that I think on all the trips,
43:58
Speaker 2: of all the vehicles and people have prepared. I think
44:01
Speaker 2: one couple came back and got divorced. Yeah and okay,
44:04
Speaker 2: so if that's what it took and it didn't work out, well,
44:07
Speaker 2: that's that's all right. At the end of the world,
44:09
Speaker 2: you did a trip, Maybe you didn't spend ten years
44:12
Speaker 2: together and realize that after ten years. So trying to
44:16
Speaker 2: understand and get the basics of what people's strengths are
44:20
Speaker 2: now Sometimes someone's strength doesn't mean to say you're not
44:24
Speaker 2: a mechanic, you're not a doctor, you can't do it.
44:26
Speaker 2: As I said, you can check, you can learn to
44:29
Speaker 2: check a vehicle, you can learn to recognize symptoms. These days,
44:33
Speaker 2: if you're sick, what stops you taking a photograph of
44:36
Speaker 2: a rash, sending it to a doctor that you've got
44:38
Speaker 2: back home, or getting some advice. You know, you're carrying
44:42
Speaker 2: enough in your first aid kit that with a bit
44:44
Speaker 2: of guidance, you could probably take the right medication.
44:47
Speaker 1: So there's so many good devices now. I mean, even
44:50
Speaker 1: the ring that I wear will tell me that I'm
44:53
Speaker 1: getting sick before I'm sick.
44:55
Speaker 2: Wow.
44:56
Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning and it tells me, my,
44:58
Speaker 1: you know, my body temperature is up one point two
45:00
Speaker 1: degrees and yeah, and I'm like, you know, actually I'm
45:03
Speaker 1: not feeling great, and you know, it's amazing these.
45:07
Speaker 2: So sometimes that awareness, those tools are there. But I think,
45:10
Speaker 2: do we always listen to ourselves? So do we check in? Okay?
45:13
Speaker 2: So check in is interesting? A check in takes on
45:16
Speaker 2: two realms. Okay. Most people live in their head. Don't
45:20
Speaker 2: mean to be you know, but we live in our heads.
45:22
Speaker 2: I have too. I've spent so much of my life
45:25
Speaker 2: living in my head. Now when I'm going to go
45:27
Speaker 2: and do something, I'll check in. I'll check in with
45:29
Speaker 2: my gut. We talk about a gut brain and a
45:31
Speaker 2: head brain. And you know, I always say to people,
45:35
Speaker 2: you'll know when it's right when it feels right. If
45:38
Speaker 2: you're stile thinking about something that it's not right, you
45:40
Speaker 2: haven't actually finished processing the situation or the thought. But
45:43
Speaker 2: when you get that feeling, you go, oh, it's just
45:45
Speaker 2: that truck is just right. I know, I can feel it.
45:49
Speaker 2: It's right. Yeah, Okay, So the more you check in,
45:52
Speaker 2: don't overthink it out, don't over think it exactly. So
45:55
Speaker 2: going back to what you asked about, you know what,
45:57
Speaker 2: what's important, It's important to get a very good history
46:01
Speaker 2: with someone. You know what, What do they do? Gives
46:04
Speaker 2: me an indication of not not what not their money
46:07
Speaker 2: bank value. It gives me indication of where their interests
46:09
Speaker 2: and strengths lie. How, how would they approach a situation,
46:14
Speaker 2: you know, in regards to if you had to deal
46:17
Speaker 2: with something, who would take the lead. And that's important
46:20
Speaker 2: because you know and are they both on the same page?
46:23
Speaker 2: Sometimes one is driving the dream in the other person
46:26
Speaker 2: is actually following and then or be dragged dragged along. Yeah,
46:30
Speaker 2: so you know, sometimes you need to address that before
46:33
Speaker 2: you go any further. And that's important. So that's where
46:36
Speaker 2: the people's side comes in.
46:38
Speaker 1: And you know, making sure that both people can operate
46:41
Speaker 1: all of the systems on the vehicle, both people.
46:43
Speaker 2: Get drive, so that that's exactly what you're saying, is
46:48
Speaker 2: so true, you know, so they're taking on that that
46:51
Speaker 2: acknowledgment and listen, you're going to need to learn some skills, okay,
46:55
Speaker 2: to be responsible and take on the journey you want
46:57
Speaker 2: to go on with your kids. So don't put your
46:59
Speaker 2: family in the car if you don't know how to
47:00
Speaker 2: change the wheel, use the jack, dip, the oil check,
47:04
Speaker 2: the daily checks, just tire precious because you're being irresponsible. So,
47:08
Speaker 2: you know, just putting that awareness out I think gives
47:12
Speaker 2: people an opportunity to go, well, let's just slow down
47:16
Speaker 2: and let's take that on. So for me, it's about
47:19
Speaker 2: that's the initial understanding. Okay, then you can look at
47:22
Speaker 2: moving on to how is how are you looking to travel?
47:26
Speaker 2: You know, and I know you like remote really remote places.
47:30
Speaker 2: You love the challenge of going there, taking yourself to
47:33
Speaker 2: explore these places, but taking you with you to go
47:35
Speaker 2: and see it. It's fantastic, But is your experience up
47:39
Speaker 2: to that or do you need to build that experience
47:41
Speaker 2: Because it doesn't help to go and jump in a
47:43
Speaker 2: vehicle you've never driven and hit a road that you're
47:45
Speaker 2: not capable of driving on, lose confidence, have an incident,
47:50
Speaker 2: and then give it all up after you've invested all
47:52
Speaker 2: the money. So if you can go in and slowly
47:56
Speaker 2: build your experience, so maybe it's a test trip for
47:59
Speaker 2: a week, and then it's a week, then it's a
48:02
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. Now that's important for two things. When
48:04
Speaker 2: you build a big truck and you engage a whole
48:06
Speaker 2: lot of people, and it takes a team to build
48:09
Speaker 2: a truck. No, if one company does builds the entire truck,
48:13
Speaker 2: then he's pretty significant because there's mechanical there's body work,
48:17
Speaker 2: there's suspension, the electrical, the whole ergonomics, the whole system
48:22
Speaker 2: that you're going to put in. So putting that together
48:25
Speaker 2: is a complex scenario and actually takes if you think
48:29
Speaker 2: of all the different components, to consider all the different manufacturers,
48:34
Speaker 2: what's available. It's like a minefield. It is, you know,
48:37
Speaker 2: you know yourself every time there's a new product popping up,
48:40
Speaker 2: and so again I put parameters in place. How do
48:43
Speaker 2: I make decisions about certain products and why doesn't mean
48:47
Speaker 2: that it's a bad product, but if I'm supplying your
48:50
Speaker 2: product and me building your truck in South Africa, it
48:52
Speaker 2: needs to be a product that we can get good
48:54
Speaker 2: service and we get spared. Okay, is it available on
48:58
Speaker 2: your trip where you're going that you can get that support?
49:01
Speaker 3: That's right.
49:02
Speaker 2: So that's really key to making a decision on a product.
49:05
Speaker 2: It may be not the best product in the world,
49:08
Speaker 2: but it's going to be the best one for your expedition.
49:10
Speaker 1: And we oftentimes see that's where people really do get
49:14
Speaker 1: in trouble is they'll they'll make such a significant change
49:17
Speaker 1: to the vehicle that it cannot be serviced in other countries.
49:21
Speaker 1: And that's we most often see that around suspension systems
49:25
Speaker 1: where they'll they'll go with long travel or wide track axles.
49:30
Speaker 1: Who's going to make that, Oh, you're going to post
49:32
Speaker 1: CV axle somewhere in Venezuela or where they're not Like
49:36
Speaker 1: whereas if you have a tacoma and you break a
49:40
Speaker 1: CV axle, a high lux CV axle oftentimes will swap
49:44
Speaker 1: over or a Proto or whatever else.
49:47
Speaker 2: Well, you speak about a product. I drove a product
49:49
Speaker 2: across America on one rally, and which was amazing. Right
49:52
Speaker 2: across American when we broke a low bull joint and
49:57
Speaker 2: that country, remember we were but anyway, this town, it
49:59
Speaker 2: was a agency. You caught it a five in the afternoon.
50:02
Speaker 2: I went in the truck was the Prada was on
50:05
Speaker 2: the back of a truck, dumped at a hotel. My
50:08
Speaker 2: co pilot went on with the trip with someone else,
50:11
Speaker 2: and I was left to fix the car. You don't
50:13
Speaker 2: get that Prota ninety in America. They were never imported.
50:17
Speaker 2: So I sat with the parts guy and we went
50:19
Speaker 2: through v because I said, I know that this is
50:20
Speaker 2: a chassis. He's going to have a similar part to
50:22
Speaker 2: one of the other ones. And we identified the part
50:24
Speaker 2: and what it looked like from this the thing on
50:27
Speaker 2: the computer it was the four runner was it was
50:32
Speaker 2: in one of those anyway, we looked at that. Eight
50:35
Speaker 2: o'clock the next morning he phoned me up. He had
50:37
Speaker 2: my part in his hand. I could have kissed him.
50:39
Speaker 2: I was so impressed the fact that he'd ordered that
50:41
Speaker 2: it was the right part. I changed the low ball
50:44
Speaker 2: joint in the hotel car park, put it all back
50:46
Speaker 2: together and all far went. You know, that was actually
50:50
Speaker 2: what it was. And the alternator also packed up, and
50:53
Speaker 2: Greg was kind enough to help me out. We got
50:56
Speaker 2: an alternator sent over and I stripped the one and
50:58
Speaker 2: took the bits from the one and put it in
50:59
Speaker 2: the other and we made one work. Yeah. So that's
51:02
Speaker 2: where you look back at. When you make significant changes
51:06
Speaker 2: to a vehicle that you can't get parts squeasily, you're
51:08
Speaker 2: adding actual complexity to.
51:10
Speaker 3: Traveling and you're really adding unnecessary stress. Yeah, it's the
51:14
Speaker 3: truth of it.
51:15
Speaker 1: I mean, the closer that you keep these things the stock,
51:19
Speaker 1: the happier, just the happier you're going to be. I
51:23
Speaker 1: thought about this the other day. I actually wrote it
51:25
Speaker 1: on Twitter, little post and I said, I said, overbuilt truck,
51:31
Speaker 1: happy ego, simple truck, happy travels.
51:36
Speaker 2: And it's I like that, that's good.
51:38
Speaker 1: And I think it's like, are you building the truck
51:41
Speaker 1: for your ego or you're building the truck to go
51:44
Speaker 1: see the world or to go see the things that
51:46
Speaker 1: you really want to go see. And I think if
51:48
Speaker 1: you really consider that you might end up with a
51:51
Speaker 1: different outcome than what you're starting with.
51:53
Speaker 2: So I have three core values that I look at Simplicity, safety,
51:57
Speaker 2: and reliability. Okay. So when people I'm back and we're
52:00
Speaker 2: looking at stuff and they're saying, I really want this,
52:03
Speaker 2: but I want this, I want induction cooking, I'm going
52:06
Speaker 2: I'm not building in your truck. Okay, So you really
52:09
Speaker 2: want it, I don't think you need it. Why would
52:13
Speaker 2: you not just cook on a fire, a simple gas
52:16
Speaker 2: burner or a mixed pair of mixed feel stove or something.
52:20
Speaker 2: Now you're adding complexity, and when it goes wrong, if
52:22
Speaker 2: you can't fix it, you're relying on someone else. So
52:25
Speaker 2: you know, we go back to design phase. So the
52:29
Speaker 2: design phase is really important because you're looking at the truck.
52:33
Speaker 2: It's been the main focus for the people because it's
52:35
Speaker 2: everything in most people's minds is about the truck until
52:38
Speaker 2: you sit down and start breaking down the different how
52:41
Speaker 2: would I say things you need to learn to make
52:43
Speaker 2: a trip happen. So the truck is wanted, and I
52:46
Speaker 2: try and put that back into perspective. The truck will
52:50
Speaker 2: come back to the truck. You can see people get
52:53
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the truck, and I'll go no, no, no,
52:55
Speaker 2: We're going to come back to the truck. I need
52:56
Speaker 2: to understand more about you and why and how, And
53:00
Speaker 2: then you look at the truck. And when you're looking
53:01
Speaker 2: at the truck, if it's to identify the truck, that's
53:05
Speaker 2: a conversation on itself. You know, you're going to identify
53:08
Speaker 2: which truck is going to be right for you for
53:10
Speaker 2: a number of different reasons. How are you going to
53:12
Speaker 2: build the layout of the truck and why? How are
53:16
Speaker 2: you going to access everything? Most important? Most The biggest
53:20
Speaker 2: mistake people make in the experience I've had is that
53:24
Speaker 2: people put stuff in the places where they can't access it,
53:27
Speaker 2: they can't get to it in an emergency, or it
53:30
Speaker 2: makes them very vulnerable when they do. So you're going
53:33
Speaker 2: to change a wheel and you've got to unpack half
53:35
Speaker 2: the truck to get to it, or you need your
53:36
Speaker 2: jump leads and they bury it somewhere. Okay, so the
53:40
Speaker 2: things that you need or you never tested.
53:43
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, I remember. This is This is one that's
53:45
Speaker 1: always stuck with me. A solo female traveler building a
53:50
Speaker 1: beautiful eighty series land cruiser, and she asked me to
53:53
Speaker 1: do some for drive training with her. This was a
53:55
Speaker 1: long time ago when I used to do that. And
53:57
Speaker 1: I said, well, the first thing that we're going to
53:59
Speaker 1: do is change your time, and she she looked at
54:03
Speaker 1: me so confused, and I said, I said, I don't
54:06
Speaker 1: know how much your truck weighs, but I think it
54:08
Speaker 1: probably ways close to eat, is what.
54:11
Speaker 3: I told her.
54:12
Speaker 1: Well, and and I says, what do you have for jack?
54:15
Speaker 1: And she says, well, they sold me this high lift jack.
54:18
Speaker 1: And I said, do you still have your bottle jack?
54:20
Speaker 1: She said no, they told me to take it out.
54:21
Speaker 1: I don't need it. And I said, well, let's he's
54:25
Speaker 1: changed change the tire and of course an eighty series
54:28
Speaker 1: long travel suspension, so she she couldn't even get it
54:32
Speaker 1: too clicks up. Yeah, because and she was strong, she
54:36
Speaker 1: was fit and strong, but she wasn't. I mean, she
54:39
Speaker 1: didn't weigh enough to get enough leverage to lift the
54:43
Speaker 1: vehicle with the high lift. And I struggled to get
54:48
Speaker 1: the thing and by the time it finally got up
54:49
Speaker 1: off the ground to change the tire, because the suspension had.
54:52
Speaker 3: So lethal that's the thing easily fallen over. And so
54:58
Speaker 3: that was an eye opener.
54:59
Speaker 1: So we had to start back with like, what's the
55:01
Speaker 1: most likely thing that's going to go wrong on your vehicle?
55:03
Speaker 3: You're going to get a flat tire.
55:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the most common thing, absolutely, and do you
55:07
Speaker 2: know how to fix it? And have you got the
55:09
Speaker 2: right exactly? That's true. So again, you know, when you're
55:12
Speaker 2: looking at building the truck, you're also looking at what
55:15
Speaker 2: is the equipment that you need. So I've got you know,
55:18
Speaker 2: love lists, okay, and everyone likes their list, and over
55:21
Speaker 2: the years I've refined it. I try and take less
55:23
Speaker 2: and I'm going to give you options and we'll talk
55:25
Speaker 2: about why you take something. But some certain things are
55:28
Speaker 2: non negotiable, and people ask me what's non negotiable? So
55:32
Speaker 2: one of the things I do is I'll do my
55:34
Speaker 2: accident management sort of titiled discussion with the guys, and
55:40
Speaker 2: I'll often put a picture up of an accidency okay,
55:43
Speaker 2: and we'll talk about it and all that, and then
55:45
Speaker 2: I'll drop the penny that that's me lying on the
55:47
Speaker 2: floor and that's my accident. And if I didn't have
55:50
Speaker 2: my set phone, I wouldn't be sitting there talking to
55:52
Speaker 2: you today. So the reality, the sobering thought there is
55:56
Speaker 2: like where am I putting my priorities. Okay, am I
56:00
Speaker 2: am I spending it? Am I spending my money in
56:02
Speaker 2: the right place? And have I got my priorities right?
56:04
Speaker 2: Because that's important And by doing a lot of research,
56:06
Speaker 2: you can your priorities can be skewed from what actually
56:10
Speaker 2: is real important. Okay, go back simple, safe, reliable? Are
56:14
Speaker 2: we safe? Have we got communication equipment? What are we
56:16
Speaker 2: going to take and why? Okay, Yes, we're going to
56:19
Speaker 2: need to do the suspension if the vehicle weighs more,
56:21
Speaker 2: and we're going to do the breaks for sure to
56:23
Speaker 2: make it safer. And we're going to put redundancy built
56:27
Speaker 2: into certain components, and we're going to fit the spares
56:30
Speaker 2: to build back in reliability based on mileage and based
56:34
Speaker 2: on the wearability of the part or the problem the
56:37
Speaker 2: weak point, you know, so that every vehicle, yeah, every
56:41
Speaker 2: vehicle's good week points. So when you're looking at that,
56:44
Speaker 2: you know you want to carry less spares, but fit
56:46
Speaker 2: the spares the ones that need to be changed to
56:49
Speaker 2: take give you peace of mind. And then have you
56:52
Speaker 2: got the contacts that can help you. So that's the
56:55
Speaker 2: other thing. You know, you're looking at the vehicles now
56:58
Speaker 2: beautifully prepared, you need contacts, your doctor and people that
57:04
Speaker 2: can give you support and help when you're on the road.
57:07
Speaker 2: But you also have to test this vehicle, so you
57:10
Speaker 2: know it's great, it's ready built, and we were pushing,
57:13
Speaker 2: we want to go, and that's where it comes comes unhinged.
57:16
Speaker 2: And quite often, you know you've pushed so hard to
57:19
Speaker 2: get to the line where you want to start that
57:23
Speaker 2: you're so exhausted, you're so tired. You don't know how
57:25
Speaker 2: tired you are until you set off and that wave
57:28
Speaker 2: hits you and we've all done it, and we have
57:31
Speaker 2: said we've driven off and we feel the enormity of
57:35
Speaker 2: what we're about to undertake, and you're adrenaline and everything
57:38
Speaker 2: washes out from you and suddenly you feel like it's risky.
57:42
Speaker 2: So you know, my advice is just go a few
57:45
Speaker 2: hours out of where you started off, camp up for
57:48
Speaker 2: a couple of days, sort yourself out, figure it out.
57:52
Speaker 2: And if you've done a few trips so you know
57:54
Speaker 2: when people have tested out their vehicles, and obviously before testing,
57:58
Speaker 2: you know, I won't engage with someone if they're not
58:01
Speaker 2: going to do training because for me, it's part of
58:05
Speaker 2: you know, and once you've got a vehicle, and people
58:08
Speaker 2: want to own vehicles in Africa. It's it's interesting, it's
58:11
Speaker 2: and ninety percent of my clients are from around the world,
58:13
Speaker 2: so some of them are just a consultant. I never
58:16
Speaker 2: get to meet them or see their truck. I'm just
58:18
Speaker 2: advising on how to build a truck. Some of them
58:21
Speaker 2: we're doing training over zoom and some of them we're
58:24
Speaker 2: going to find a truck new or used, help them
58:26
Speaker 2: register it in South Africa, build the truck up, train
58:31
Speaker 2: them and then support them on their trip. So every
58:34
Speaker 2: one of the guys I use, so I use a
58:36
Speaker 2: team of people who I engage, which I don't know
58:39
Speaker 2: in the companies. So these are guys who have their
58:41
Speaker 2: own companies, but they trusted suppliers of mine. And each
58:46
Speaker 2: of these guys takes on the responsibility to look after
58:49
Speaker 2: the client. So if there's a problem, come back to us.
58:53
Speaker 2: If you've got a problem, phone me. Give me your
58:55
Speaker 2: sat phone number. I want to be sure that if
58:57
Speaker 2: you're on your trip, because I know and you know
58:59
Speaker 2: what it's like when you're in the middle of Noweh,
59:01
Speaker 2: who the hell to off phone? So yeah, it's it's
59:06
Speaker 2: it's I guess you want to build a confidence in
59:10
Speaker 2: someone so that they feel confident with enough preparation, and
59:15
Speaker 2: you know, less is more. We've spoken about it, you know, I.
59:18
Speaker 1: Think, well, I think you sum it up so beautifully simple,
59:22
Speaker 1: say reliable and does if you look at that as
59:26
Speaker 1: the litmus test, does the vehicle satisfy that? Does all
59:31
Speaker 1: of the pieces of equipment satisfy that?
59:35
Speaker 3: Maybe even does your travel companion, Yeah, satisfy that.
59:38
Speaker 1: Are they simple enough where they're not going to be
59:41
Speaker 1: over complicated or toxic? Are they reliable? Are they going
59:45
Speaker 1: to be there when you need them to be? Are
59:46
Speaker 1: they going to step up when you when things get hard?
59:49
Speaker 1: Are they safe? Are they say are they going to
59:52
Speaker 1: drive safe? Are they going to make good decisions? Are
59:54
Speaker 1: they going to be So that's.
59:56
Speaker 2: That's also understanding like that, And if it's a couple
59:58
Speaker 2: who drive, you know, and you spoke earlier, as you said,
1:00:02
Speaker 2: you both need to be able to overlap each other,
1:00:05
Speaker 2: so it's a team. The team efforts. So both need
1:00:07
Speaker 2: to drive a car, because if you're not feeling well
1:00:09
Speaker 2: doesn't help. If you do all the driving, you sprain
1:00:11
Speaker 2: your ankle, So little things can go south quickly. And
1:00:17
Speaker 2: I think if you've got the situation where you've got
1:00:19
Speaker 2: in hand, that you both support each other, you both
1:00:23
Speaker 2: know the roles, then it actually becomes really safe, fun
1:00:27
Speaker 2: and enjoyable.
1:00:28
Speaker 3: Totally, and you can both learn a lot. You learn
1:00:30
Speaker 3: about yourself and you learn a lot about each other.
1:00:33
Speaker 2: I think that's probably the biggest thing. If I have
1:00:35
Speaker 2: to look back on the time and trips that I've
1:00:39
Speaker 2: done and now Joe and I we love our travels.
1:00:42
Speaker 2: I'm very blessed to have Joe so involved in what
1:00:46
Speaker 2: I do. I mean, Joe's background as people and I
1:00:50
Speaker 2: think what we've really focused on is bringing the people
1:00:53
Speaker 2: side Joe. Joe actually coaches and coaches. Coaching is a
1:00:57
Speaker 2: terrible word, but she actually empowers people to really live
1:01:00
Speaker 2: their life fully. And so a lot of the clients
1:01:04
Speaker 2: that we have actually have taken support from her to
1:01:07
Speaker 2: prepare themselves on the people side. So how are we
1:01:10
Speaker 2: going to communicate? You know, be surprised when you when
1:01:12
Speaker 2: you get a couple and they've retired and now they're going,
1:01:15
Speaker 2: We're going to go and travel, because hey, what do
1:01:17
Speaker 2: you do. You know, you've made your money and you've
1:01:19
Speaker 2: bought this car. Now you want to travel. But perhaps
1:01:22
Speaker 2: in the life of your marriage you've never really spent
1:01:24
Speaker 2: twenty four hours together.
1:01:25
Speaker 3: Not likely.
1:01:26
Speaker 2: Hey, and now that's kind of scary. And the kids
1:01:28
Speaker 2: are gone, so that bridge's going to be crossed and
1:01:31
Speaker 2: often successfully. You know, time, especially if you like each
1:01:36
Speaker 2: other to begin with, you can.
1:01:37
Speaker 3: Find your way back.
1:01:38
Speaker 2: You find your way back.
1:01:39
Speaker 3: You find your way back.
1:01:40
Speaker 2: And isn't that probably very symbolic of you. You started
1:01:44
Speaker 2: off and these two tributaries I love using sorry analogy,
1:01:48
Speaker 2: so bear with me. These two tributaries come down and
1:01:51
Speaker 2: you met up. And along the way you've hit some
1:01:54
Speaker 2: whirlpools where you've been spinning around and you've possibly spun
1:01:57
Speaker 2: out on one side and possibly the other side. But
1:01:59
Speaker 2: you find your way back together and eventually reach a
1:02:02
Speaker 2: point in your life where you are together and you're
1:02:05
Speaker 2: just looking for the next way forward, you know. And
1:02:07
Speaker 2: I think when you look back to nature, which I
1:02:09
Speaker 2: often look at. Nature teaches so much, but if you
1:02:13
Speaker 2: can look back and go, where are we in our
1:02:15
Speaker 2: journey on the river? Okay? Are we in this whirlpool
1:02:18
Speaker 2: or we're in a different tributary because we need to
1:02:21
Speaker 2: navigate back to that same river? Travel together, peace, calm,
1:02:27
Speaker 2: in a piece. You know, if you ask if you'd
1:02:30
Speaker 2: ask me many years ago, what would freedom mean to me?
1:02:33
Speaker 2: And what would in the piece I chased expeditions, I
1:02:36
Speaker 2: chased trips, I chased all the adrenaline stuff. Okay, it
1:02:41
Speaker 2: was chasing. Yeah, well forgive us born in one way,
1:02:48
Speaker 2: but I now look for bas of being and I
1:02:53
Speaker 2: feel more free because I'm more with me and I'm
1:02:57
Speaker 2: much more centered around you know, what's in important that
1:03:01
Speaker 2: I want? I have If I have me time, Joe
1:03:04
Speaker 2: and I can have we time. And if we have
1:03:06
Speaker 2: we time, we've got time for friends. And if we
1:03:08
Speaker 2: look at our time and energy that we have available,
1:03:12
Speaker 2: how are we going to spend it traveling and exploring?
1:03:15
Speaker 3: And how little we have worked with that? Yeah, that's true.
1:03:20
Speaker 1: There's a couple of questions that I like to ask.
1:03:25
Speaker 1: One of them it's a little more selfish. But do
1:03:27
Speaker 1: you have any favorite books that you've read about travel
1:03:32
Speaker 1: or resources? Guides for overlanding? Is there is there are
1:03:36
Speaker 1: there books that you you have a love for.
1:03:39
Speaker 2: You know, Crying for Kalahari will always stay clear to
1:03:42
Speaker 2: my heart because I was reading that book at the
1:03:44
Speaker 2: time I was asked to go and work for Pendica,
1:03:47
Speaker 2: so far As and it's a story of Mark and
1:03:49
Speaker 2: Deilia Owens in their time in Botswana. So when people
1:03:53
Speaker 2: write stories about what they're doing and where they're living
1:03:56
Speaker 2: and how the challenges that overcome, and those are the
1:04:01
Speaker 2: sort of books that interest me. And when I look
1:04:04
Speaker 2: at resources at the moment, you know, I've always I've
1:04:08
Speaker 2: got probably a few editions of Tom Sheppard's Bible, and
1:04:12
Speaker 2: he's a man I always look back on and think
1:04:15
Speaker 2: every one of us who shares our knowledge and experience, well,
1:04:19
Speaker 2: not so much our experience, but our knowledge leaned it
1:04:22
Speaker 2: initially from someone, Yes, for sure, a group of people,
1:04:25
Speaker 2: someone in a book we read. So I owe a
1:04:27
Speaker 2: huge respect to the people who share their knowledge with me.
1:04:31
Speaker 2: And I want to share my knowledge with people that
1:04:33
Speaker 2: I can mentor to actually hopefully make the overlanding travel
1:04:39
Speaker 2: arena safer and more enjoyable so that we can all
1:04:42
Speaker 2: go and play and have fun and take what we
1:04:45
Speaker 2: need to out of it.
1:04:47
Speaker 1: If if someone was to sit down with you for
1:04:49
Speaker 1: coffee and they said, you know, I would I would love.
1:04:55
Speaker 3: All to go travel across Africa.
1:04:58
Speaker 1: What would be the couple keep pieces of advice that
1:05:01
Speaker 1: you would give them just to get them started thinking
1:05:04
Speaker 1: about travel.
1:05:06
Speaker 2: So you know Africa has the ability to take on
1:05:09
Speaker 2: all kinds of travel. Okay, so if you're going to
1:05:13
Speaker 2: travel in a vehicle, fine, but look at what you're
1:05:16
Speaker 2: going to spend on your budget. You know a budget
1:05:20
Speaker 2: shouldn't rule the entirety. But people tend to put their
1:05:23
Speaker 2: money in the wrong places. And if you can't afford
1:05:25
Speaker 2: to buy a brand new vehicle and don't buy, adjust
1:05:28
Speaker 2: your sites by something older, go with less. The guy
1:05:33
Speaker 2: who drove the same road as you, sitting in a
1:05:36
Speaker 2: fancy hit it out vehicle next to you at the
1:05:39
Speaker 2: campsite has no more than you. At the end of
1:05:41
Speaker 2: the day. He's seen the sunset, he's driven the same
1:05:45
Speaker 2: tough road, he's smelling the same air, and you're enjoying
1:05:48
Speaker 2: a fire and tend to one. You'll have a beautiful
1:05:50
Speaker 2: conversation together. It just so happened that you evaluated your
1:05:53
Speaker 2: needs in a way that serves you. And I think
1:05:56
Speaker 2: sometimes people don't adjust the needs and want. What do
1:06:00
Speaker 2: I need and what I want? And if you can
1:06:02
Speaker 2: identify that and put it in a balance, you can
1:06:05
Speaker 2: come away with a better perspective. Doesn't help to have
1:06:08
Speaker 2: everything that you don't need, but you need to be responsible.
1:06:11
Speaker 2: So I think if you embrace being responsible, responsible doesn't
1:06:16
Speaker 2: equal everything and the best of everything. Responsible means taking on,
1:06:20
Speaker 2: you know, travel with less and take more knowledge and
1:06:24
Speaker 2: less kit, how much more, how much training that you
1:06:28
Speaker 2: could look back on and go I got out of
1:06:30
Speaker 2: that with less kit, but I used my training. So
1:06:34
Speaker 2: I think that I'd say to people, invest more in
1:06:37
Speaker 2: your training and your skill set, and I think it
1:06:39
Speaker 2: would serve you better so that you actually feel confident
1:06:43
Speaker 2: in your skills and then confident in your partner you're
1:06:47
Speaker 2: traveling with. It's about That's what it's about.
1:06:50
Speaker 3: That's great advice.
1:06:51
Speaker 1: Paul, Well, thank you so much for sharing your story,
1:06:54
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for sharing some insights that
1:06:57
Speaker 1: you've learned in your three decades helping people explore the
1:07:01
Speaker 1: world and explore the world yourself. What was what was
1:07:06
Speaker 1: the favorite trip that you've ever done? What was the
1:07:08
Speaker 1: one trip that you love, one that brings the smile
1:07:11
Speaker 1: to your face.
1:07:12
Speaker 2: It's interesting I get asked that often, you know, what's
1:07:15
Speaker 2: the one trip? I think if you had to ask me,
1:07:17
Speaker 2: what was one of the biggest achievements, it was Driven
1:07:19
Speaker 2: to Extremes, which was a three part series with Shell
1:07:24
Speaker 2: driven to extremes on three different environments minus sixty plus
1:07:30
Speaker 2: sixty degrees in the desert and then the jungle. That
1:07:33
Speaker 2: was challenging because I enjoyed the challenge of doing that.
1:07:35
Speaker 2: But the most enjoyable trip was probably one of the
1:07:37
Speaker 2: ones that I drove from London to Sydney. It was
1:07:41
Speaker 2: an amazing adventure. I remember sitting under Marble Arch and
1:07:45
Speaker 2: thinking I'm going to drive to Sydney. It's a long
1:07:50
Speaker 2: way and it's a good three months driving. It was.
1:07:55
Speaker 2: It was a group of us and did that. But
1:07:58
Speaker 2: my favorite type of travel to travel by myself with
1:08:01
Speaker 2: Joe and just to go and explore when actually i've
1:08:04
Speaker 2: been remote. Yeah, there's never one perfect trip.
1:08:09
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Paul, and thank you all for listening.
1:08:12
Speaker 1: And remember it's really about is it reliable, is it safe?
1:08:19
Speaker 1: Simple and is it simple? So let's come back to
1:08:21
Speaker 1: that and we will talk to you all next time.
1:08:25
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you Scott, thank you. Theres are my friend.