Latest / All The Right Movies / The Fugitive (1993) | Ep. 60 - Part 1

Transcript

The Fugitive (1993) | Ep. 60 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

• 0:04
  All the right movies. Listen up ladies and gentlemen,
• 0:07
  our fugitive has been on the run for 90 minutes.
• 0:10
  Average foot speed over uneven ground.
• 0:12
  Barring injuries, 4 miles an hour.
• 0:14
  That gives us a radius of 6 miles.
• 0:20
  What I want out of each and everyone of you is a hard
• 0:22
  target. Search of every gas station,
• 0:26
  residents, warehouse, farmhouse, hen house outhouse dog house in
• 0:30
  that area. Checkpoints for 15 miles.
• 0:35
  Your fugitive's name is Doctor Richard Kimball.
• 0:42
  Go get it. Respected vascular surgeon
• 0:46
  Richard Campbell is wrongfully convicted of the Bruton murder
• 0:49
  of his wife. On the Lam.
• 0:51
  Richard tries to put the pieces of his wife's death together
• 0:54
  while playing a tense cat and mouse game with relentless US
• 0:57
  Marshall Samuel Gerard. Based on the 60s TV show of the
• 1:01
  same name, Andrew Davis is the fugitive left behind.
• 1:04
  A very troublesome shoot to rock up the box office charts,
• 1:07
  picking up a surprise Oscar win along the way.
• 1:10
  My name is Luke and the two big dogs with me are Matt.
• 1:14
  Your fugitive's name is Doctor Richard Kimball and Westie.
• 1:19
  Well, think me up a cup of coffee and a chocolate donut
• 1:21
  with some of those little sprinkles on top, will you?
• 1:22
  As long as you're thinking. All right, movies are on the
• 1:25
  trail of the one armed man. You find that, man, Find that.
• 1:28
  Man. Find that man.
• 1:49
  Hi everyone, welcome to All the Right Movies, a podcast on
• 1:52
  classic and hit films sponsored by Devlin McGregor
• 1:54
  Pharmaceuticals. Absolutely.
• 1:57
  Not really, but we are telling the story of Hollywood 1 movie
• 2:00
  at a time and this one is a big piece.
• 2:03
  Huge piece, yeah. It is.
• 2:05
  We've carried out a hard target search to bring you the
• 2:07
  incredible behind the scenes story of Andy Davis as the
• 2:10
  fugitive Andy. You know nicknames by net.
• 2:13
  Familiar close with him. Before we go on the run, here's
• 2:15
  some information about becoming a patron of all the right
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• 2:45
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• 3:29
  Yes, massively appreciated. Just having a look means a lot.
• 3:31
  So thank you guys. Very nice that OK, so we're
• 3:34
  diving straight into the fugitive, like Kimball jumping
• 3:36
  off that dam, and this was my pick.
• 3:40
  I think people might be able to guess that I.
• 3:43
  Think so, yeah. And the reason that I want to
• 3:45
  talk about it is because this it was a big one for me growing up
• 3:48
  as an early teen, and it occupied the space between the
• 3:52
  films that I watched when I was a kid and the more adult cinema
• 3:56
  of the mid to late 90s. Yeah, yes.
• 3:58
  I think it's still got a lot of charm and personality.
• 4:01
  And I think it's a great example of outstanding, intelligent
• 4:03
  blockbuster entertainment with a few flaws.
• 4:07
  Right. OK.
• 4:07
  Glad you put that cafe. In I'll just flag that right up
• 4:10
  now. Yeah, just straight up amazing
• 4:12
  you've. Got one of the big loving.
• 4:14
  Yeah, I think it's one of Ford's most memorable roles, probably
• 4:17
  the most outside of the three that we've already talked about
• 4:20
  on the show, Solo Indie Decade. Yeah, probably.
• 4:22
  Yeah, yeah. TLJ miraculously won an Oscar
• 4:25
  for his performance. You know, a stand alone that
• 4:28
  doesn't sound that remarkable, but considering who's up against
• 4:30
  pretty incredible, yeah. We'll get into that, yeah.
• 4:33
  Like I said, I've got a few issues with the film for
• 4:36
  certain, but I think it's one of the best of the 90s and it's got
• 4:39
  an amazing behind the scenes story as well.
• 4:41
  Can't wait to dive into that. Definitely.
• 4:43
  And Matt, I do not know what your thoughts are on the future
• 4:47
  at all, so I'm excited to hear it.
• 4:49
  Yeah. But you're.
• 4:53
  There you are. No, this one, I think it's
• 4:55
  possibly the most 90s action film I can think of.
• 4:58
  And it was something that the time was sold on the very simple
• 5:01
  premise, A guy falsely accused of killing his wife goes in the
• 5:04
  run and that guy's house and Ford, and that's what he needed
• 5:07
  back then. I don't know if that would be
• 5:08
  enough thesis with anyone, not even Tom Cruise.
• 5:11
  You know what I wish it was though?
• 5:12
  I wish it was. There's something kind of really
• 5:14
  nostalgic and simple about this, really like, but I went and see
• 5:17
  the cinema, everyone I knew went to see it and it was also a real
• 5:20
  word of mouth film. You told people about it, you
• 5:22
  recommended it, and I think it's still a real crowd pleaser.
• 5:25
  Haven't said that. I think it's a bit of a puzzle
• 5:28
  as to why it was so popular, particularly when we get into
• 5:30
  all the behind the scenes stuff, which could have really sunk
• 5:33
  this film or we'll get into all that.
• 5:34
  But yeah, so it's one that's really popular, but honestly, I
• 5:37
  don't think anyone's ever been able to quite understand why and
• 5:41
  how it was the. Same as you guys.
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  It did bridge that gap for me between like Indiana Jones and
• 5:46
  then what my dad was watching at the time.
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  I don't remember going to the cinema to see this, but I do
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  remember it being one of them rentals that was part of like
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  the Saturday night for me. It's it was that moment where it
• 5:56
  was like I thought he was Indiana Jones.
• 5:59
  What's happened? He's just at last in 89 and now
• 6:03
  we've got this guy but haven't looked back on this.
• 6:06
  And I'll get into this as we go. I feel like this is what Ford
• 6:09
  has done most of his career. Now that we'll look back on it.
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  He's got this big status as being Han Solo and Indiana Jones
• 6:16
  and and Rick that, but like, if you look back at the majority of
• 6:19
  his work, it is this fragile guy.
• 6:21
  It is this confused guy, it is this guy trying to make all of
• 6:24
  the rights in a world of wrongs and stumbling his way through
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  it. Really to me, I mean, I really
• 6:29
  love it. I really loved it when I was a
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  kid because it was just easy to follow, but you felt like it was
• 6:33
  really complicated, but you kind of got it.
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  And I love Tommy Lee Jones and I love the humour in it.
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  Just enough action to keep us excited and it was Harrison
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  Ford, so he just kind of carried us through the whole thing.
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  So I enjoyed watching it then, I enjoy watching it now.
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  Brilliant. But I'm two different people
• 6:47
  watching it completely. So I see it from 2 totally
• 6:50
  different sides of the spectrum now.
• 6:51
  So this will be interesting because we did a take 30 on it
• 6:55
  back, way back when, right? About four year ago.
• 6:57
  About four years ago and I'd listen back to that and it's,
• 6:59
  it's amazing how my view has changed, not necessarily for the
• 7:04
  better or for the worse, but just how I've noticed different
• 7:06
  things when I've been watching it from four years ago.
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  I mean, I sat and said it's, it's a wonderful, brilliant film
• 7:11
  and it is a wonderful, brilliant film.
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  But there's a lot wrong with it that more than I would care to
• 7:16
  admit back then. But I'm fine to do that now.
• 7:18
  So let's dive into it. Let's find the plot holes, and
• 7:20
  let's try and fill them up. OK, let's do it.
• 7:22
  I don't think that's possible. The Fugitive was written by
• 7:29
  David Tui and Jeb Stewart, based on the 60s TV show of the same
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  name. Directed by Andrew Davis.
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  It was produced by Arnold Copelson for Copeland
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  Entertainment, Shot on location in North Carolina in Chicago, it
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  was distributed by Warners in the theaters on the 29th of July
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  1993. Yep, Harrison Ford stars as
• 7:47
  Doctor Richard Kimball, Tommy Lee Jones as US Marshall Sam
• 7:50
  Gerard, and they're supported by Cela Ward, Julianne Moore, Joe
• 7:54
  Pantliano, Yaron Kabir and Andreas Katsulas.
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  Indeed. OK, our fugitive name is Doctor
• 8:02
  Richard Kimball. Go get him.
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  The beginning. We're in the thick of the action
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  right from the start as details of the night of the murder cross
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  cut with the party that even at Richard's interrogation, his
• 8:19
  trial and his sentencing, and I think this is all done very
• 8:23
  well. The attack on Richard's wife
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  Helen in the credits, it's brutal.
• 8:28
  Yeah. The cross cut in between the
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  night over the interrogation is a real smart way to whiz through
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  the narrative beats get you right up to speed immediately.
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  The editing is really tight. I love those cutbacks to the
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  house, the guy looking at the alarm system, the gun on the
• 8:43
  ground, those zoom cuts. Yeah, with the with the sound
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  design as well, making mundane shots really exciting.
• 8:49
  Yeah, and that negative view as well.
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  It's like you're looking at the negative of photograph when it
• 8:53
  switches. Reminds me of the Leeds house in
• 8:55
  Manhunter. A little bit, yeah.
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  I've qualified immediately. I love this film, as mentioned
• 9:01
  at the top. Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:03
  But but but. And here it comes.
• 9:07
  Here we go. Big plot holes.
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  The film is bookended with a lot of questions.
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  For me, I think the investigation in Helen's death
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  leaves a bit to be desired. Kimball is the cops as guy.
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  They don't seem to have much on him at all, but they still bring
• 9:22
  him to trial. Now I don't understand because
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  we've seen Richard called away to work on the we're back from
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  the party. Yes, we see the scene where he's
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  in the operating theatre surrounded by a lot of people.
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  Yes. That is surely alibi enough
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  clean. Clean.
• 9:38
  That is a clean alibi. But Nope, straight to trial.
• 9:43
  I think the writing could do with a lot of work.
• 9:46
  Yeah, yeah. We'll, we'll get on that.
• 9:48
  Really, really needs tightening of that.
• 9:50
  Making a big thing about his fingerprints to his house.
• 9:53
  Of course it is. All over the place, it's his
• 9:55
  wife. Yeah, so in the interrogation
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  scene, Ford didn't know the questions the police were going
• 10:00
  to ask, his character Andrew Davis said.
• 10:02
  This added realism to Kimball's defence and flustered answers.
• 10:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think which works.
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  Really. Well, actually, but as we'll
• 10:08
  explain later, nobody knew any of the lines really.
• 10:11
  No. But the point of that, yeah,
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  Yeah. This is the only bit of Andrew
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  Davis considered direction. Well, that's harsh.
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  Well, I mean, it's true, this was written on an Etch Sketch.
• 10:22
  Let's be honest, it. Was and about that trial, the
• 10:26
  prosecution says you'll hear ironclad proof of Kimball's
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  guilt, indisputable scientific evidence.
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  We'll hear the voice of Helen Kimball from beyond the grave
• 10:36
  identifying her killer, her husband.
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  Now, this is a home run by the sounds of things, but the voice
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  from the grave says please help me.
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  He's in the house. He's trying to kill me, Richard.
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  He's trying to kill me now. That is neither indisputable nor
• 10:49
  scientific evidence either. It's not.
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  And what is the one armed man doing just hanging around
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  upstairs, just chilling out while Helen conveniently
• 10:57
  mentions Richard's name on the phone?
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  I. Don't know what?
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  If she didn't mention his name. And why the hell didn't he flee
• 11:03
  when he hears Richard calling from downstairs?
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  Honey, I'm home. Who won the game?
• 11:08
  Smash. Yeah, good point.
• 11:10
  Answer me that. I can't.
• 11:12
  All really good points. All really, really good points.
• 11:15
  Yeah, he's just. Got a terrible lawyer.
• 11:17
  Really shit lawyer? Yeah.
• 11:19
  Lionel huts over there. Lionel huts.
• 11:24
  Are you meant to think that that's Kimball hanging up the
• 11:26
  phone? Are you?
• 11:27
  Was this meant to be a lot more mysterious?
• 11:28
  Was it meant to be like the start of Shawshank where you
• 11:30
  didn't know if you did it or not?
• 11:31
  Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't executed
• 11:33
  perfectly for me, no. Well, of course not.
• 11:35
  But Helen's death, I think, is vividly explained with sickening
• 11:38
  detail, particularly with those flashbacks and Sealer Ward
• 11:41
  performance as Helen. She's only got a few scenes to
• 11:44
  make them count and I think she's great.
• 11:46
  Just. Fantastic.
• 11:47
  And that shallow, restricted breathing that she has on the
• 11:50
  phone to 911, that's horrendous stuff.
• 11:53
  Brilliant. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:54
  Really good. And probably the longest credits
• 11:56
  we've ever seen in any film. Too long.
• 11:59
  The end on the 14 minutes, 52nd mark.
• 12:03
  That long? Wow. 15 minutes.
• 12:05
  Yeah, like late Scorsese departed.
• 12:08
  Crazy so. Yeah, I mean, he's convicted.
• 12:11
  Hook, line and Singer. That's it.
• 12:13
  Death sentence, I believe, isn't it?
• 12:14
  Yeah. Today sentence today.
• 12:17
  Compelling evidence? Obviously so.
• 12:18
  I would imagine the people on that bus are pretty bad
• 12:21
  bastards, let's be honest. So he's he's long number the bad
• 12:24
  guys. This is an incredible set piece.
• 12:27
  I'll say that from the start. This escape from the bus is
• 12:29
  absolute trail of fodder. It's perfect.
• 12:33
  You are like watching that. Just watch that scene of him
• 12:35
  jumping off and you know, I'm going to say that it's
• 12:37
  incredible. It's well done.
• 12:38
  Don't understand why he tries to get out the window that way
• 12:41
  because that's really hard. Happy.
• 12:42
  Impossible, of course, on. Because.
• 12:46
  So just get out normally. But that's fine.
• 12:49
  Again, I think what it does really well is it shows the
• 12:51
  morality of the character. It shows the care and nature of
• 12:54
  the cattle. He's not letting that guy stay
• 12:55
  behind, even the guards out of there.
• 12:57
  And then, you know, go up and say kiss my ass and he's
• 13:00
  straight out of there. But the problem with this for me
• 13:03
  is that this guy obviously puts like a tablet in his mouth,
• 13:05
  pretends that he's choked, and then he started to form with the
• 13:07
  mouth. But they're almost at the
• 13:09
  prison, these guys expendable. Like isn't he probably going to
• 13:13
  be sentenced to death anyway? Well, I would imagine they're
• 13:16
  all on death row. I would imagine so.
• 13:18
  If not, then they're not very nice people and it's not exactly
• 13:21
  Kimball who's doing it. So we've got no real sense of
• 13:24
  duty to any of these people. Just like, just leave them, it's
• 13:27
  fine. Yeah, whatever.
• 13:28
  But no, no, to get the shotgun and then get that and then
• 13:30
  trying to help, it's from the start flawed.
• 13:33
  Really. But it does set up the heart.
• 13:35
  It does set up the morality of the character.
• 13:37
  I think it's really, really good.
• 13:38
  And the action sequence itself, like I've said, is really
• 13:42
  powerful. The sound design is incredible.
• 13:43
  I think I'm running away in the shackles.
• 13:45
  It just really kind of wraps up that tension and say, is he
• 13:48
  going to make it? Is he not jumps in the ditch
• 13:49
  just in time and the train comes over the top.
• 13:52
  So yeah, I mean, as an action sequence itself, it's probably
• 13:56
  one of the best of the 90s, I would have said.
• 13:58
  Oh, huge. I remember when the film came
• 14:00
  out and there was a Lord made of this scene and this stunt.
• 14:03
  Yeah, there was, there was pieces on the news in the UK
• 14:06
  about it. I remember.
• 14:06
  Which is crazy, say. Harrison Ford does his own
• 14:09
  stunts kind of thing, wasn't it? Yeah, not this one.
• 14:15
  And the train crash were shot for real the moment when Kimball
• 14:18
  jumps from the train. That was achieved using a form
• 14:20
  of reprojection called introvision.
• 14:23
  But that is an actual train hitting a bus, just minus the
• 14:26
  engine. And the wreckage is still in the
• 14:28
  North Carolina mountains. And it has since become a
• 14:30
  ticketed to subtraction ticketed trying.
• 14:34
  To get some money back. If the same goes for the laundry
• 14:39
  room in the Chicago Hilton, they were ticketed tours for that.
• 14:43
  Yeah, wow. I wouldn't.
• 14:44
  I wouldn't be bothered about that if I'm honestly.
• 14:46
  Definitely not speaking. Of getting some money back like
• 14:48
  the sequence cost 1,000,000 in total.
• 14:51
  We only had one take, like I said, but it was planned out
• 14:54
  meticulously weeks in advance, with test runs being carried out
• 14:57
  with a boxcar and a log car. It was achieved by special
• 15:00
  effects guru William Mesa and the process called in revision
• 15:04
  that you mentioned. Matt Mesa explained it as a live
• 15:07
  action compositing system. So it was an adapted version of
• 15:10
  from Protection, which used a background plate as one layer,
• 15:13
  foreground imagery using projection as another.
• 15:16
  This was all composed in camera, meaning that the actor could be
• 15:19
  shot in the middle of these two already composited layers into
• 15:22
  the frame. A similar process was used in
• 15:25
  the train track sequence on Stand By Me.
• 15:27
  Right, OK, so here comes the big dog.
• 15:30
  Matt, over to you. You taking it away?
• 15:32
  Because after this, Gerard turns up and you just think this is
• 15:36
  the guy. Yes.
• 15:37
  And you know he's the man because he doesn't just jump in
• 15:39
  and turn it into a big ego contest because he knows his
• 15:42
  jurisdiction, even if no one else does yet.
• 15:44
  And he just has hard confidence. He can see something's not right
• 15:47
  here and he will be proved right.
• 15:49
  He's just got to take his time. So when, like, the sheriff tells
• 15:52
  him, really patronize me, he'll be with him in just a minute.
• 15:55
  He doesn't kick off. It's just that, OK.
• 15:58
  That's amazing. That's fine, he could tell
• 16:01
  something doesn't add up with the guard story, but it's about
• 16:04
  being patient. It's about letting everyone else
• 16:06
  trip themselves up. He lets the shower from his
• 16:08
  mouth off and ask on who's authority to which Jared has the
• 16:12
  answer straight away. Doesn't talk one word to the
• 16:15
  guard until they find the leg irons, which shows he's been
• 16:18
  full of shit and it's like oh wow, Gee where's OK.
• 16:21
  And then it's where the keys. This guy did get away didn't he?
• 16:24
  So within two minutes he's got through everyone's bullshit.
• 16:27
  He's completely, completely in command, but again, no ego about
• 16:29
  it. He doesn't rub it in the face of
• 16:31
  the shower for the guard. They're just completely
• 16:33
  irrelevant to him now because his focus is rich.
• 16:36
  It's on just two minutes. You know this guy is super
• 16:38
  smart, super focused, and just the last person you want chasing
• 16:41
  you down. Brilliant.
• 16:43
  Great when he does find those leg irons and he gets all up in
• 16:46
  that guard's face, right? Next to me.
• 16:50
  And that speech, I mean, that is iconic.
• 16:52
  Again, Wesley, like you said, that's trailer for that.
• 16:55
  Oh, it is. I think that was the trailer,
• 16:57
  wasn't it? Yeah.
• 16:57
  Well, I think it was. Yeah, the cross cutting of it,
• 16:59
  isn't it? The cross cutting is great,
• 17:01
  yeah. Really builds attention, yeah.
• 17:03
  And speaking about that famous sign, David too, he said.
• 17:06
  I've seen Tommy Lee Jones talking about how he came up
• 17:09
  with every doghouse, hen house, penthouse, cathouse in the area.
• 17:12
  Hot dog, Good search. And I thought to myself, no,
• 17:15
  that's wrong, that's in my script.
• 17:16
  And by the way, I've just made-up our target search.
• 17:19
  I have no idea what that means. Sounds great, though.
• 17:22
  Sounds great, yeah. However, Andrew Davis said one
• 17:24
  of the most famous lines in the movie was written by the copy
• 17:27
  people who were right in the trailer.
• 17:29
  Every doghouse outhouse, etcetera.
• 17:30
  That was written by marketing people.
• 17:32
  Wow, wow. Does anyone know what the fuck's
• 17:35
  going on here? Ultimately, though, it appears
• 17:38
  that too is the one to believe. An excerpt from a draft of his
• 17:41
  from February 92 confirms that. Hard target search, gas station,
• 17:45
  farmhouse, etcetera, etcetera. We're all present early on in
• 17:48
  his draft, right? OK.
• 17:50
  Yeah, change your bullshit story, guys.
• 17:54
  So the big dog is on the case and the game of cat and mouse is
• 17:57
  underway. Or dog and mouse, Yeah.
• 17:59
  OK. Haven't made his getaway and
• 18:03
  Richard steals some overalls and there's a live 1 pulled out of
• 18:06
  the wreckage and we're picking up with Richard as he cleans
• 18:09
  himself up before his iconic death.
• 18:11
  Defy and jump over the USD. Indeed.
• 18:14
  Gets himself to the hospital, some familiar ground.
• 18:17
  Knows what he's doing, knows exactly where to hide.
• 18:19
  Obviously not a problem. It's terrible just from her
• 18:23
  part. Just, you know, is he drinking
• 18:25
  that much? The guy hasn't woke up.
• 18:27
  He's clearly incapacitated. How can he feed himself?
• 18:32
  How can he just? I'll have a drink of that,
• 18:33
  that's fine. It sure is dry today, isn't it?
• 18:36
  What are you talking about? Just lost her mind.
• 18:38
  It's Kathy Bates from Misery just looking after oh Gee golly
• 18:42
  God just absolutely crazy doesn't she?
• 18:46
  Probably sees Kimball just doesn't even care.
• 18:48
  Figment of our imagination to just sees bearded people all
• 18:51
  over the place. Does Harrison Ford look great
• 18:53
  with the beard or is he the only actor in the world who looks
• 18:55
  much better without it? Because I think that that face
• 18:58
  is just iconic, isn't it? When you start covering it up,
• 19:01
  it feels like it's false. It doesn't really work.
• 19:03
  I don't like the moment where there's the dream sequence where
• 19:07
  he dreams of his wife on the bed and then he comes into the frame
• 19:11
  from the top where he's disgusting beard rubbing up
• 19:14
  it's. Horrible.
• 19:14
  You see the beard like 20 minutes before you see his nose.
• 19:20
  Loads of like a Brillo pad. Horrible.
• 19:23
  But it's when the bit that reminds me of this, like
• 19:25
  everything fits lovely. Just whatever he finds fits
• 19:27
  throughout the whole film, which is great because you're not
• 19:30
  really that bothered because the only thing is he doesn't pull
• 19:32
  the fly up, so that's fine. But that egg sandwich, that's
• 19:35
  all I think about with this sequence and just getting it, it
• 19:38
  looks great. It's the perfect scrambled egg.
• 19:40
  You know, if it's too runny, get that out of your face.
• 19:42
  It's. Not happening it.
• 19:43
  Needs to have that firmness to it.
• 19:45
  It's good lumps that in there, right?
• 19:46
  He's having a great time and when he walked around that
• 19:48
  corner, I totally buy it like I would.
• 19:50
  Be his doctor, Richard. Is the doctor, Yeah.
• 19:53
  He's like, you totally get that cup of coffee, like sandwich.
• 19:55
  He's just, you know, he's being easy and.
• 19:57
  On the goal, because he's busy, he's.
• 19:58
  Busy. Yeah, you totally buy that.
• 19:59
  And you don't think well this cops fucking missing a trick.
• 20:01
  What an idiot you can't think about.
• 20:03
  Yeah, perfectly the same. And actually plays on that,
• 20:05
  riffs on it, says everything except the beard, which is great
• 20:08
  because you kind of riffs on you like, yeah, get it.
• 20:10
  They say Doc. And you go, oh, what's what is
• 20:11
  it? Yeah, yeah.
• 20:12
  One more thing. Pulls the fly up.
• 20:14
  Thank you. That with the egg sandwich in
• 20:16
  his mouth. Walks off cool as ice pops.
• 20:17
  He could just disappear at that point.
• 20:19
  You'd be like, I've won the film.
• 20:20
  It's fine. And also when he's patching
• 20:23
  himself up, fearless. European.
• 20:26
  Killers, whatever. Fantastic.
• 20:28
  Nick looked absolutely great. Something to aspire to.
• 20:36
  So thinking to inspire to a 51 year old man a. 51 year old man
• 20:40
  and an egg sandwich. Well, after Richard leaves the
• 20:43
  hospital, he commandeers an ambulance, but not before
• 20:47
  providing some life saving advice to the prison officer
• 20:49
  from the bus. What a guy.
• 20:51
  Another way of showing his character.
• 20:53
  Yeah, Gerard gets the word that he stole in the ambulance.
• 20:55
  Where the hell is he going in an ambulance?
• 20:57
  And now the chase is on. Brilliant.
• 20:59
  Yeah. I love that cut.
• 20:59
  That's great. And who doesn't want this US
• 21:02
  Marshals job? He's setting up base at the
• 21:04
  scene with a helicopter on hand as soon as they get word about
• 21:07
  their boy. Amazing.
• 21:09
  Yeah. And I love the shots of TLG and
• 21:11
  the chopper with the ambulance in the background, both in
• 21:13
  camera. Yeah.
• 21:14
  Great touch. Yeah, nice.
• 21:16
  Completely immerses you into the scene, into the film, into the
• 21:19
  surroundings. Love it.
• 21:21
  And I think this just goes to show how up against it Richard
• 21:24
  is. He can't move without being
• 21:26
  spotted somewhere. And it's the first of many cat
• 21:29
  and mouse chases between Gerard and Kimball.
• 21:31
  Gerard is so close to Kimball most of the time, but it's
• 21:34
  believable that he's able to give him the slip because Davis
• 21:37
  packs the scenes with so much detail.
• 21:40
  And with Richard now down in the sewer, we got to go from that.
• 21:44
  Certainly do. I mean, you mentioned the train
• 21:46
  crash. This was the bit to me, but I
• 21:48
  feel like sold the film because I you've got to see it for the
• 21:50
  damn jump and like fundamentally it's a pursuit sequence.
• 21:54
  We've seen quite a few times before someone threw the sewers,
• 21:56
  etcetera. But what makes it stand out in
• 21:58
  the film style is the character beats and the character work
• 22:01
  going on here. You know, Cosmo, who was
• 22:03
  Pantiano's character complaining about getting the shoes getting
• 22:05
  wet, Gerald Standard, shut up and get on the road.
• 22:08
  That's really funny. But the best character beat is
• 22:10
  obviously Kimball and Gerard coming face to face for the
• 22:12
  first time. And for such a simple exchange,
• 22:15
  simple dialogue, I think there's a lot to pick out because
• 22:17
  Kimball's first reaction is, I didn't kill my wife.
• 22:20
  It's not get back. I'll shoot because he's got the
• 22:22
  gun. He doesn't threaten.
• 22:24
  He protests the innocence of himself as forefront of his mind
• 22:27
  throughout. And Tommy Lee Jones delivery of
• 22:31
  I Don't Care has to be one of the best line deliveries in
• 22:34
  cinema because that's such like a simple, almost like
• 22:37
  nondescript phrase on the page. And he just makes it come alive.
• 22:41
  He's not saying it dismissively. He says with this intonation
• 22:43
  that I don't care because I hear this all the time from people I
• 22:46
  deal with. I.
• 22:47
  Don't care because it's not my job to care.
• 22:50
  It's remarkable how much he invests in that small phrase.
• 22:53
  And this simple back and forth between those come really iconic
• 22:56
  and for good reason. And that's what makes the
• 22:58
  sequence stand out for me. Not actually the jump off the
• 23:00
  dam. Because if I'm being like,
• 23:01
  critical, I think Davis slightly whiffs the execution of that.
• 23:04
  The best part is the shot, Crane and all, for Kimball's head, you
• 23:07
  see. Half Amazing that's.
• 23:09
  How far down it is. But the rest of it, it's just so
• 23:11
  quickly edited to get around. Has that just a dummy either
• 23:14
  threw in there, or is it a stuntman but he jumped in at a
• 23:17
  much lower level? It's just bumping.
• 23:19
  It's over and done with. And like the first, I thought I
• 23:23
  was being unfair because you can't really compare it to like
• 23:25
  what to do Mission Impossible these days, decades later, but
• 23:28
  actually Goldeneyes only two years after this.
• 23:32
  I was going to say, it's not exactly Goldeneye, is it?
• 23:33
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 23:34
  That's it. If you compared the jump off the
• 23:36
  Diamond Goldeneye to this, this is no comparison, but it's the
• 23:39
  concept. The concept is brilliant.
• 23:41
  The concept works because the stakes are so high and it's just
• 23:44
  how good the character building has been up to this point.
• 23:46
  Yeah, he kind of says he doesn't care because he's not allowed to
• 23:49
  care. Yeah.
• 23:50
  Exactly. It's not his job particularly.
• 23:52
  Yeah, he's there to take. That gets in there, yeah.
• 23:55
  The I Don't Care line was in the original script but he didn't
• 23:59
  like it at all and kept on trying some other lines and
• 24:02
  after they didn't work it was persuaded to try the I Don't
• 24:05
  Care line. Fits like a charm.
• 24:07
  Absolute iconic. Yeah, plays out through the
• 24:10
  whole film as well. Every exchange after that really
• 24:13
  works. All on the back of that line and
• 24:15
  that delivery. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:17
  The dam jump was shot in two different locations, believe it
• 24:20
  or not. One was a real dam in North
• 24:21
  Carolina. Ford stood in the tunnel above
• 24:23
  the water attached to wire to get the external shots.
• 24:26
  You can feel that pit of your stomach sickness.
• 24:29
  Awful. Yes.
• 24:30
  Horrible. That all the headshots.
• 24:31
  Amazing, yeah. Amazing.
• 24:32
  Very expensive throwing them dolls and they're all the models
• 24:36
  however they were. Yes, they were.
• 24:37
  Yeah, very expensive. Yeah, because there were six
• 24:39
  House and Ford dummies made for this jump and the cost around
• 24:42
  $10,000 each and none of them made it out of there alive.
• 24:45
  Yeah, just like Harrison Ford wouldn't have or Rich, but it
• 24:49
  makes it. Somehow, Yeah, you.
• 24:51
  Mentioned that there were two sets on here W the tunnels of
• 24:55
  the dam were a set built in an old steel factory.
• 24:58
  I think the footage of the actual dam itself and the set in
• 25:02
  the steel factory, I think that matches really well.
• 25:04
  Yeah, continuity is great there. So set pieces of plenty in the
• 25:07
  open and act of The Fugitive, with the dam jump possibly being
• 25:10
  the most memorable in the film of any film at the time.
• 25:14
  Yeah, yeah, it took the time. Definitely the director.
• 25:23
  A man who we haven't talked about on the podcast.
• 25:25
  A man we're unlikely to talk about again.
• 25:28
  Very, very possible. Yeah.
• 25:30
  Unless we do collateral damage anytime soon, yeah.
• 25:33
  Yeah, we do. Above the law.
• 25:36
  Get in there. That's a double feature.
• 25:39
  Watch this space. Get on paper on for that.
• 25:41
  Yeah, but I do think that is a shame because I think his work
• 25:46
  here is impressive. Wesley, what about you?
• 25:48
  Yeah, I think his work here is it is impressive when you can
• 25:51
  feel like he's in charge of it. But a lot of this I feel is down
• 25:54
  to pure look in in some respects.
• 25:57
  In some scenes it just gels and I think Lee Jones really steals
• 26:02
  the film. Irregardless of who the director
• 26:04
  is going to be, I think that performance is always going to
• 26:06
  exist. Normally you'd have a director
• 26:08
  in there who's kind of in control of all the character
• 26:10
  development. He's in control of the whole
• 26:12
  stories, in control of the whole tone of the film.
• 26:15
  But I think this film does totally shift and I think it
• 26:18
  does have a lot more of an espionage kind of feel, a cat
• 26:21
  and mouse kind of feel, a chase feel than it does an all out
• 26:24
  action film. Oh.
• 26:26
  Without that. I've never thought of the
• 26:27
  future. It was like an action film, like
• 26:29
  Die Hard, you know? It just doesn't have the same
• 26:32
  feel. There's a lot more emotion to
• 26:34
  this, which I think is what Andrew Davis was trying to bring
• 26:36
  to it. I mean, I think he was, it's
• 26:37
  quite muddled between. Is this a big action sequence?
• 26:40
  Is this a big action film, or is it about a guy trying to figure
• 26:43
  out what's going on? Is it like these Hitchcock
• 26:45
  tropes to it? Can I do, can I be a bit more
• 26:47
  clever with that? And I think what he tries to do
• 26:50
  is put in both, and I don't think he respects one over the
• 26:54
  other. So to me, it feels like a bit of
• 26:57
  a mishmash. It feels like white chocolate
• 26:59
  and dark chocolate at the same time.
• 27:00
  It's like, you know, just pick one.
• 27:02
  But now I'll just put them together and just see kind of
• 27:04
  see what happens. They do work together, but they
• 27:06
  do kind of bash into each other now and again as I'm watching it
• 27:09
  from a directing point of view, in that I feel like a lot of the
• 27:12
  characters, especially the US Marshals, all them guys, I feel
• 27:16
  like they all just sat in a room and came up with their own
• 27:18
  character traits. I don't really think, yeah, I
• 27:20
  don't think Davis was like, you're like this and you're
• 27:23
  going to react like this, you know, like Fincher would be very
• 27:25
  much. If you watch Social Network, you
• 27:27
  notice how everyone's going to be in that group and he thought
• 27:30
  you follow that exact blueprint. Whereas this feels very, very
• 27:34
  loose. Not in a bad way, because I do
• 27:36
  think films need to have that looseness to them, especially to
• 27:38
  the direction, to give them a little bit of a flaw and to give
• 27:40
  them a little bit of a direction in which to go.
• 27:43
  But to me, it feels like that damn jump.
• 27:45
  You know, when Gerard says why don't they shut the water off?
• 27:49
  It feels like Davis just needs one of them tunnels to flood
• 27:52
  out, but he's got all three of them at the same time and he
• 27:55
  kind of quite control where the water is going.
• 27:57
  Yes, it's all going to go the same direction.
• 27:59
  It goes fast, it goes slow. It feels like you're in the
• 28:01
  Rapids at times. And I don't feel like I'm guided
• 28:04
  through this film by the director.
• 28:06
  I feel I'm guided through this film by the performances.
• 28:09
  It's not a drug, we think, towards Davis.
• 28:10
  It's just you've got these two massive personalities and Lee
• 28:13
  Jones and Ford anyway, why wouldn't you carry it through
• 28:16
  with the personalities? But I cannot see much of Davis
• 28:18
  personality in this film is what I'm saying.
• 28:20
  Yeah, I think he was on a high and nothing just from the start,
• 28:22
  just with the issues in production.
• 28:24
  Which we'll get into, yeah. And, you know, he's he's not
• 28:27
  perfect as a director, but there are a couple of things that
• 28:29
  stand out to me when I think about Andrew Davis's work on
• 28:31
  this film. And firstly, I think of Chicago
• 28:34
  as a location which like Philly and Rocky or New York and Taxi
• 28:38
  Driver. It becomes large in the life and
• 28:41
  a cliche to say, but a character in its own right.
• 28:43
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:44
  I think this is one of the go to Chicago films.
• 28:48
  Yeah. So.
• 28:49
  Like was saying there was issues so during pre production the
• 28:51
  decision was made to shoot in Chicago despite the freezing
• 28:54
  conditions. During the Saint Patrick's Day
• 28:56
  scene it was -6° or -21 with the wind chill.
• 29:00
  Imagine now. This was largely motivated by
• 29:03
  Ford, who was born and raised in Chicago and knew the locations
• 29:05
  like the back of his hands. So he kind of just led that on.
• 29:08
  And Davis was less enthused about filming freezing
• 29:11
  conditions but went with Chicago because he also knew the city
• 29:14
  well, having grown up by himself and their familiarity with the
• 29:16
  location was was beneficial. Because of the tight schedule,
• 29:19
  filming started in February with an August release date planned.
• 29:22
  That's on six months. 6-7 months.
• 29:27
  Really quick. It's yeah, you can tell, yeah.
• 29:31
  VP Michael Chapman didn't have the best of relationships with
• 29:34
  Andy Davis, but he did give him a credit where credit was due
• 29:37
  and capturing the city of Chicago on screen.
• 29:39
  He said a lot of it feels really like Chicago because it just has
• 29:43
  a natives eye. That's Andy.
• 29:45
  He's not mine. He knew where to look.
• 29:47
  Yeah, yeah, it feels. Very homely, it feels like we're
• 29:49
  seeing in parts of Chicago that we wouldn't normally see I.
• 29:52
  Think the City aids the narrative so effectively and
• 29:54
  provides such a great contrast to the chase between Kimball and
• 29:57
  Gerard. The shots of the city are so
• 29:58
  vast and sprawling, showing how easy it is for Richard to blend
• 30:02
  into the city's various dark corners.
• 30:05
  We can see the circles that he's moving in when he comes out of
• 30:07
  that hotel later in the film. The sign above the door says men
• 30:11
  only. Who knows what's happened to be
• 30:14
  on those doors? Sweet home, Chicago.
• 30:21
  But it just shows you how under the radar Richard is operating.
• 30:24
  I can't imagine he needs ID to stay at that hotel for example.
• 30:27
  Definitely not. You got my cheese whiz boy.
• 30:32
  So it's similarly we know that Gerard and his team are all over
• 30:36
  the city like a rash. And on the other side of the
• 30:38
  coin, it's easy to see how they could corner Kimball when he
• 30:40
  makes a mistake. And I think that's all about
• 30:43
  capturing the city really well. You know, we've mentioned it.
• 30:46
  We'll continue to mention that the film's got quite a few
• 30:48
  problems. But the reason that the obvious
• 30:50
  deficiencies in the right and don't put me off the film is
• 30:52
  down to all the elements, paper and over the cracks.
• 30:55
  You know, we've talked about the cast, but I think props need to
• 30:59
  go to Andy Davis. We're making something that's
• 31:01
  not just semi coherent, but one of the great films to come out
• 31:04
  of the decade from like, kind of like an intelligent thriller
• 31:06
  point of view. And I think that's because there
• 31:09
  are some iconic moments. The train smash, the dam jump,
• 31:12
  the Saint Patrick's Day parade. These are really larger than
• 31:15
  life moments. And they have paper over the
• 31:17
  cracks. And they have to to keep the
• 31:19
  film afloat. Yeah.
• 31:20
  Definitely, yeah. And I think.
• 31:21
  He does that really well. It really.
• 31:23
  Does it's like the three big presents you get for Christmas
• 31:25
  and you forget all the little ones.
• 31:29
  I've had a really good Christmas for you, having these three
• 31:31
  great things. What else do you get?
• 31:32
  I can't remember. Yeah, yeah, I got an Atari.
• 31:35
  Yeah. Exactly, Yeah.
• 31:37
  Don't worry about the chamois leather that somebody bought me.
• 31:39
  All the socks or whatever, yeah, pushed and chocolate and
• 31:42
  deodorant. Now I'm not bothered about that.
• 31:44
  Got a Super Nintendo. Cheers mate.
• 31:46
  Yeah. Brilliant.
• 31:48
  What do you think about Andy Davis's direction here, Matt?
• 31:50
  Yeah, I mean. It's an interesting 1, isn't it?
• 31:52
  Because it's such an outlier in his career.
• 31:54
  Like the man's making Chuck Norris and Stephen Skow films
• 31:57
  and then he makes this like it doesn't make sense.
• 32:00
  What really struck me the watching this, coming back to
• 32:02
  watching the credits, 6 editors involved.
• 32:05
  Yes. Now we'll get into the reasons
• 32:07
  why it's not necessarily Davis's fault, but just think like we
• 32:11
  covered JFK a few episodes ago that are two editors for JFK.
• 32:15
  Yeah, and a similar time frame as well.
• 32:20
  Nowhere. Near as straightforward as this
• 32:22
  one is, and that's what I think makes the film.
• 32:24
  It's so sharply done. It's got a real kinetic pace to
• 32:27
  it, and every scene has something that either adds
• 32:29
  something to the narrative, tells you something about a
• 32:31
  character, or puts a further obstacle in Kimball's path.
• 32:34
  There's no messing around. There's no scene.
• 32:36
  I think I would want to lose from this because it's not
• 32:39
  indulgent ever. It's always obstacle solution
• 32:42
  clue, obstacle solution clue. Another thing that combined with
• 32:45
  that create location shooting is what gives this film that
• 32:48
  personality and reputation. It's so well edited in pace.
• 32:52
  You don't get a chance to get bored with it and that's why you
• 32:55
  don't question it. The plot loopholes until much
• 32:58
  they like I come back this. How long is the East Kimball
• 33:01
  supposed to be on the run for? Because it's a year.
• 33:04
  Because that's it seems like really quickly, like maybe a
• 33:06
  week, but then the line of dialogue like the guy died last
• 33:09
  summer in Richard's, like what? What does he's bothering?
• 33:12
  Us for a year about this when they go to sites it's like, what
• 33:15
  do you mean a year a year ago like yeah and.
• 33:17
  It doesn't feel like that, does it?
• 33:18
  No, no, because it isn't. No, no, because it isn't.
• 33:21
  Because it isn't. It isn't.
• 33:23
  The whole films, just like the Rapids, it's just really hard to
• 33:25
  control. And Davis just survived and he's
• 33:27
  just sitting there just, yeah, in the boat.
• 33:30
  Like Temple of Doom just being my fucking hell.
• 33:36
  Yeah, I mean, that's just one example where you think hang on
• 33:38
  a minute, but the editing gets you past that and the thing.
• 33:41
  You. Know there are aspects that are
• 33:43
  updated a bit. I think you know, the flashbacks
• 33:45
  in slow more the echoing dialogue and those scenes,
• 33:48
  they're more so I think yeah, this is someone who's just done
• 33:50
  a lot of like B movie junk to be honest.
• 33:53
  But to be honest, if if that's the kind of create you've had,
• 33:55
  you don't get to be self indulgent, you know, because
• 33:57
  you're making films that people just want to be entertained by
• 33:59
  sort of thing. That's the skill set that Andrew
• 34:01
  Davis had. And yes, he's maybe looked into
• 34:04
  this story. He's maybe looked into that cast
• 34:06
  and fair played room. But all the same, the fact that
• 34:08
  the six editors putting this together, that's where I think
• 34:11
  the film came together rather than any big vision Davis
• 34:14
  brought to it. Yeah, very, very possibly.
• 34:17
  Do you think he's made like a Steven Seagal film here, with a
• 34:19
  really good cast and really good crew?
• 34:21
  Quite possibly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:23
  He's throwing shade on Under Siege.
• 34:25
  I don't. I don't like that too much.
• 34:27
  Well, no, not really. I mean, that was the next step
• 34:29
  up, wasn't it? But I mean, well, let's just
• 34:31
  see. He's made in that ilk.
• 34:33
  And then he said, oh, hold on a second.
• 34:34
  Yeah, I. Know what you mean and tell you
• 34:36
  what? That court of silence, that
• 34:38
  Chuck Norris film, Best Chuck Norris film that he's ever made?
• 34:41
  Well. Of course it is, but I mean,
• 34:42
  that's not a big push, is it? Yeah, I can see where my
• 34:47
  defensive Andy Davis is just going to fall like Devi, is he?
• 34:52
  So as Matt mentioned there, there was 6 editors on the whole
• 34:54
  production, but because of the August deadline, there were six
• 34:57
  editors, 10 assistants, and six production assistants were
• 35:00
  around the clock to cut the film in record time.
• 35:02
  Wow. Wow.
• 35:03
  Yeah, the original cut came in at over 3 hours, 3 hours, with
• 35:08
  the opening scene before Richard's wife is killed being
• 35:11
  over 30 minutes. Thirty minutes.
• 35:13
  Wow, really? I was going to say that might
• 35:16
  have explained the year, but not that the death sequence being
• 35:19
  half an hour. Yeah.
• 35:21
  All right. But obviously that was chopped
• 35:23
  down and those moments of that scene was interspersed as a
• 35:27
  flashback narrative, and I think that really works.
• 35:29
  It works miles better, yeah. The editors were recognised for
• 35:32
  their efforts, with the nomination at the Oscars for all
• 35:34
  six of them, which set a new record of the number of editors
• 35:37
  per film. Which, I mean, it's unheard of.
• 35:40
  Yeah, 2 for JFK man, come on. No 3.
• 35:43
  For the thin red line 6 for this thin red line at about 24 miles
• 35:51
  of 35 mil firm to go through this.
• 35:54
  Just just make sure it works. This dropped plate spaghetti
• 35:57
  just make it straighter. Well, Davis was drafted into
• 36:02
  direct after his work on Under Siege, which was mentioned and
• 36:05
  that was also warned as production.
• 36:07
  And without knowing anything about the production of The
• 36:08
  Fugitive, Davis got a call from head of Warner Brothers
• 36:11
  production Bruce Berman, who said congratulations, Harrison
• 36:14
  Ford saw Under Siege over the weekend and he wants to make The
• 36:17
  Fugitive. But how can you say no?
• 36:19
  Exactly, Gordon, would you? You know, we'll talk about the
• 36:21
  screenplay later, of course, but it's so dominant in the telling
• 36:24
  of this story that will come up everywhere in this episode.
• 36:27
  When Davis first read the script, he said it didn't make
• 36:30
  any sense to me. So I went into this meeting and
• 36:33
  Harrison said we'll figure out how to fix it together.
• 36:35
  Just me and you, I. Mean.
• 36:39
  OK, Harrison, I believe you. It doesn't.
• 36:40
  Matter if it's shit, I'm still doing that.
• 36:45
  And as Luke mentioned there about the script, the script was
• 36:47
  being written on set every day. There were rewrites being done.
• 36:50
  It was David's sister who came up with the idea of pinning the
• 36:53
  murder on the pharmaceutical executives.
• 36:55
  She was a nurse in LA, and Davis asked her what could get a
• 36:59
  doctor into trouble with the higher boobs.
• 37:01
  And she suggested that he disapproves a new miracle drug.
• 37:06
  You don't have to be a nurse to come up with that.
• 37:12
  I could suggest that, I think. Yeah.
• 37:15
  And that's that's a broad stroke.
• 37:17
  There's a miracle drug and he fucks it up.
• 37:20
  Oh, yes. Cheers.
• 37:21
  OK. And I'll get that in the fucking
• 37:23
  script. Are you in the medical?
• 37:24
  Profession and Davis said that became the basis of the plot.
• 37:33
  It was a question as to whether I could get these great actors
• 37:35
  to help me make it come alive. Tommy, Lee, Joey and especially
• 37:38
  Harrison, everybody contributed. I mean, that's not the work of
• 37:42
  an actor, is it? You wouldn't like the whole
• 37:44
  cast, right? We've got a script, we need to
• 37:46
  change it all and you're going to help me, otherwise it's going
• 37:49
  to fall on its arse. Yeah.
• 37:51
  I mean, that's not the job of the director.
• 37:55
  No, that's fair enough. I mean, bless him, he was.
• 37:58
  He's on the back foot. He did really well.
• 38:00
  I. Think he did?
• 38:01
  Yeah. Despite this, and because of the
• 38:05
  problems with the script, nobody had any confidence in the film.
• 38:08
  Joe Pantoliano said that everybody thought it was going
• 38:10
  to be a dirt apart from Andrew Davis.
• 38:12
  Tommy Lee Jones thought it was going to end his career, and
• 38:16
  Harrison Ford said in front of Daniel Roebuck, who plays Biggs,
• 38:19
  one of Gerard's team. I said this is going to be my
• 38:23
  Hudson Hawk. Everybody thought it was going
• 38:26
  to be shit. Yeah, Hudson Hawk, if you've not
• 38:29
  seen that, the infamous Bruce Willis farm.
• 38:32
  Yeah, yeah. Dreadful.
• 38:33
  Film terrible. Yeah.
• 38:35
  So as we've been talking about, Davis attributed the success of
• 38:37
  the film down to the characters and ultimately the actors play
• 38:40
  in them, he said. You have a great empathy for
• 38:42
  Harrison Ford, and then there's this bulldog force of nature,
• 38:45
  Tommy Lee Jones, who doesn't care whether he's innocent or
• 38:48
  not. Just like we've been seeing,
• 38:49
  Davis said. It's Les Miserables.
• 38:51
  That's the heart of it, and there's a reality to it, which I
• 38:54
  tried to have in all of my Movies Now.
• 38:56
  This is coming from a man who led him a chain reaction and
• 38:59
  collateral damage. Did he compare the fugitive to
• 39:02
  Les Miserables? Oh yeah, yeah, he loves it.
• 39:05
  Very lofty. Very lofty, not it's like Lemis
• 39:11
  Rob or very similar. It has similar things.
• 39:14
  It's just, it is Lemis, Rob. Nice one, Andrew.
• 39:19
  Yeah, both Oscar winners, Yeah. So Andrew Davis making one of
• 39:28
  the action thrillers of the decade.
• 39:30
  Despite the issues in production, The Fugitive still
• 39:33
  stands as the highest watermark in his career.
• 39:36
  And still the best live action version of Les Miserables.
• 39:39
  Yes, All right, movies, We'll be
• 39:51
  right back. Thank you for supporting us by
• 39:54
  listening to the sponsors for this episode.
• 39:56
  So, Luke, we've got a podcast recommendation for our listeners
• 39:59
  today that I think they're really going to like.
• 40:01
  Oh yeah, sounds good. What have you found?
• 40:03
  It's called Pretty much Pop, a culture podcast.
• 40:06
  Do you know it I. Do actually, yeah.
• 40:08
  They talk about movies, don't they?
• 40:10
  Just like us, Yeah, But they dive into the whole cultural
• 40:13
  landscape as well. So they've got like TV, music,
• 40:16
  games, novels, comedy, theatre, kind of like everything we
• 40:19
  consume as entertainment. That's it.
• 40:21
  Yeah. And what's ever about pretty
• 40:22
  much pop is they do ask the big questions.
• 40:25
  Like how does pop culture even work when we're all watching and
• 40:28
  listening to totally different things?
• 40:29
  Where's the line between trash and treasure?
• 40:32
  You know, the kind of stuff that keeps us awake at night?
• 40:34
  Or me anyway. Of course, yeah.
• 40:36
  They bring together philosophers, artists,
• 40:38
  comedians, smart people who can actually articulate why we like
• 40:41
  the weird stuff that we like. Because when you think about it,
• 40:45
  most of what we love, it's pretty weird.
• 40:47
  And coming from a guy that's watched Friday the 13th part 440
• 40:50
  times, yeah, that's pretty weird.
• 40:53
  You wouldn't say that if you'd seen Kristen Glover's dance
• 40:55
  moves, but that's exactly why I think our listeners would enjoy
• 40:59
  it. They're thinking deeply about
• 41:01
  pop culture without being pretentious about it.
• 41:03
  So where did you find it? I got it on Spotify but pretty
• 41:06
  much pop a culture podcast. You can find it wherever you get
• 41:09
  your podcasts or head to prettymuchpop.com.
• 41:12
  Cool, so worth checking out if you want to expand beyond just
• 41:16
  movies. Yeah, although obviously movies
• 41:18
  are still the best bit of pop culture, obviously.
• 41:21
  Thank you for listening to our sponsors.
• 41:23
  And now it's back to the show the.
• 41:28
  Cast. Two huge performances in The
• 41:33
  Fugitive, which doesn't leave too much room for the actual bad
• 41:36
  guy. We'll be talking about him too.
• 41:39
  But firstly, it's over to Westie to talk about movie star
• 41:41
  extraordinaire Harrison Ford. Indeed, Mike at the fishes, yes.
• 41:47
  You don't see it. Obviously a huge fan of Ford,
• 41:50
  always have been, but watching this back and like I said, we
• 41:53
  did this four years ago and I was just just shoot guns in the
• 41:56
  air. You somebody salmon it.
• 41:57
  Harrison Ford, just incredible. Boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 41:59
  No problem. But, you know, there's a real
• 42:02
  fragility of this character and it was the first time I'd seen
• 42:05
  it. And then going back and doing
• 42:06
  some proper research on it, looking at it like this is the
• 42:08
  role that I think he's played more than anything else.
• 42:11
  They think of what predated this witness.
• 42:13
  There's a lot of that in there. Yes.
• 42:15
  There's a lot of frantic in there.
• 42:17
  Yeah. A lot of regarding Henry, a lot
• 42:19
  of presumed innocent various games was before this, which
• 42:23
  went on to clear and Present Danger and that kind of watch
• 42:25
  Air Force One. It's got that kind of vibe to
• 42:27
  it. So he's always played this kind
• 42:29
  of really fragile character and a lot of these films that I
• 42:32
  think people forget about. And I think this was kind of the
• 42:34
  gateway drug to that. It was that moment where he
• 42:37
  plays somebody who doesn't have to really live in the world of
• 42:40
  action. But I think this film is where
• 42:42
  he kind of nails it and he hits that middle ground.
• 42:44
  It's not too far down and it's not too far up.
• 42:47
  I think the action sequences, you really believe that he
• 42:49
  hasn't hit anybody before. But this guy's Indiana Jones,
• 42:52
  you know, you've that fight at the end, which I get into, it's
• 42:55
  just he has this real belief and morality and grounded and you do
• 42:58
  want to kind of like be friends with him.
• 43:00
  You're on his side immediately and he's got that real presence
• 43:04
  and that real electricity on the screen where when he's there,
• 43:08
  you just want to help him. You want to figure out what's
• 43:10
  going on. But he has this real fragile
• 43:12
  nature. Like, is he actually going to
• 43:13
  get out with this? Is this going to work?
• 43:16
  Like that damn jump should just have no attention whatsoever.
• 43:20
  You should be thinking about, of course it's Harrison Ford, but
• 43:23
  when he turns around, you just think, is something going to
• 43:25
  happen? Like, is he going to be
• 43:26
  paralyzed from this? Is something like it's something
• 43:29
  really detrimental going to happen to the character because
• 43:31
  he looks so fragile? And I think his performance in
• 43:33
  this really does highlight that. There was a few other people in
• 43:36
  the running. I like Bolden, which I think
• 43:38
  there was something about Patriot Games and that whole
• 43:41
  thing. Bolden was well in the running
• 43:43
  for all that stuff. I think it was October time,
• 43:45
  wasn't it? So.
• 43:46
  Yeah, it was. Yeah, he lost out to Ford again
• 43:49
  because Ford came on for Petrie Games.
• 43:51
  Yeah, he. Did know that was meant to kind
• 43:53
  of carry on and it's just the same with this.
• 43:55
  I think there was that real battle between them.
• 43:57
  Michael Douglas obviously at the time was massive.
• 43:59
  Kevin Costner was considered. Nick Nolte was considered, but
• 44:02
  Nick Nolte thought he was too old, even though he's like only
• 44:05
  a year older than Ford. But nobody said I'm not taking.
• 44:08
  I think nobody would have been good in the Gerard role or as.
• 44:10
  Yeah, it's Cosmo. Like, just like the older one
• 44:13
  where Gerard's slightly younger. Definitely the Gerard role,
• 44:16
  yeah. But Ford's performance, it's
• 44:19
  just so genuine, like he means every line.
• 44:21
  He really wants it to work. Really great performance from
• 44:24
  Ford I think. Yeah, What really gets me is
• 44:26
  that moment that he cows away when the photograph flash goes
• 44:28
  off in his face in the opening scenes.
• 44:31
  You can really feel and see his vulnerability and pain and all
• 44:35
  the way through. I think the only time he smiles
• 44:37
  is when he's getting that ID photo taken and he struggles
• 44:39
  because he's balled it up. Yeah.
• 44:41
  Yeah, but there's this real worry with the character all the
• 44:44
  way through. He's dragging this weight.
• 44:45
  It's it's really dragging. This weight, yeah, you can feel
• 44:48
  it. You can feel it, Yeah.
• 44:49
  And. He came on board because he
• 44:50
  liked the idea of playing an ordinary character thrust into
• 44:53
  extraordinary circumstances. He liked the grounded nature of
• 44:56
  Kimball, which was a contrast to his usual indie Han Solo action
• 45:00
  persona. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:01
  Well, that and he also wanted to grow a beard and so this film is
• 45:05
  the perfect opportunity and. Then go on straight.
• 45:07
  Off. Yeah.
• 45:07
  And then straight off, because Warners were furious.
• 45:11
  In their words. They said they'd paid to see
• 45:13
  Ford's face. Right.
• 45:15
  Which is fair enough, like you were saying, West, yeah.
• 45:17
  Well, absolutely. I mean, that's the face, isn't
• 45:19
  it? That's.
• 45:21
  Yeah, that's your movie star that's going to.
• 45:22
  Sell pictures but. Compromise was reached the other
• 45:25
  way, where Richard starts off with AB and then whips it off.
• 45:28
  Producer Keith Barrish said that an action star like Tom Cruise
• 45:31
  or Mel Gibson would be wrong for the tone of the film.
• 45:34
  He said that he wanted to make it a serious action movie with a
• 45:37
  serious foundation. Ford just always felt right for
• 45:40
  the film. Yeah.
• 45:41
  Well, when does forward never feel right?
• 45:43
  Well, regarding Henry, probably Anchorman 2.
• 45:47
  Yeah, really. Yeah.
• 45:51
  And in keeping with the script issues we've talked about, Jane
• 45:54
  Lynch said that Ford was unhappy with the dialogue in their
• 45:56
  scenes and they ended up rewriting their lines.
• 45:58
  Lynch said that Ford gave us some key advice, though.
• 46:01
  It doesn't matter how smart you are, you look stupid if your
• 46:03
  mouth is a gap. When shooting the moments of
• 46:08
  Kimball running through the woods, Ford tore ligaments in
• 46:10
  his leg. The limp that Kimball has in the
• 46:12
  film was real. Ford held off getting surgery
• 46:15
  until film and rap because he felt that it added to the
• 46:17
  character. It certainly does that.
• 46:19
  Shuri did a similar thing on Raiders when they shot in
• 46:21
  Tunisia as well. Yeah.
• 46:23
  He did, yeah. So a real movie star performance
• 46:25
  from Harrison Ford, carrying the weight of the film on his
• 46:27
  shoulders. Indeed.
• 46:31
  Next up, if Ford is carrying all the weight, TLG is certainly his
• 46:34
  spotter. Over to you, Matt.
• 46:36
  Yeah, I mean, if you're going to call yourself a big dog in the
• 46:39
  film, you need to put in a performance.
• 46:41
  That just absolutely. 100% a hundred.
• 46:44
  Percent this is a big dog performance.
• 46:46
  I mean, you're sharing a film, a house and Ford in this absolute
• 46:50
  A list of pomp here and you've just got to bring your A game
• 46:52
  and Tommy Lee Jones does that and then some.
• 46:55
  Every scene he's in, he steals, he's in complete control and you
• 46:59
  can see why he's got such a dedicated team following this,
• 47:03
  every command of that question because this guy, you just know
• 47:05
  he gets the job done. That's really interesting and
• 47:08
  pivotal because in so many of these types of films of the law
• 47:10
  enforcement, the guy in charge, he's inept, always nowhere near
• 47:14
  as clever as the guy they're trying to get like in Die Hard.
• 47:17
  Imagine if this was Dwayne T Robinson in charge that get
• 47:20
  nowhere near Kimball. Kimball would be aware and never
• 47:24
  found. But you don't get that whichever
• 47:25
  art, because he's so smart. His team is so capable, that
• 47:29
  doggedness and hunting down Kimball and working out where he
• 47:32
  is, what he's doing. Or he's making IDs, whereas he
• 47:35
  make an ID for vice mayor, for the hospital.
• 47:36
  That's our next clue. There's a genuine intention in
• 47:39
  that. Gerard, you really feel he's
• 47:41
  capable of getting them, which is such a tricky thing to do
• 47:43
  because that should be the most predictable part of the film.
• 47:46
  Oh, of course he's going to get away.
• 47:47
  Tommy Lee Jones makes you doubt it.
• 47:49
  He makes him not this kind of easy.
• 47:50
  Get him. The other interesting thing is
• 47:52
  Gerard, technically, for large part of this film, he's the
• 47:55
  antagonist, but you also don't want him to fail.
• 47:58
  And again, it's like Diet. When I watch Die Hard, there's a
• 48:00
  little bit of me would always like to see Hands get away with
• 48:03
  it because he's so charming and he's funny and he's smart and
• 48:06
  he's clever and it's a tricky balance act.
• 48:08
  But as much as you want Kimball to get away, you don't want him
• 48:12
  to do that at the expense of Gerard looking foolish or
• 48:15
  looking like. They both have to win, don't
• 48:17
  they? They both have.
• 48:18
  To win, both have to win. Such a difficult thing to pull
• 48:21
  off, and I think a large part of that is down to how good Tommy
• 48:23
  Lee Jones is in this, because obviously he's got the dramatic
• 48:26
  chops, but it's a little bit yummy.
• 48:28
  He brings as well the line in Yemen about when he's sitting
• 48:31
  behind him thinking of a cup of coffee and a chocolate doughnut.
• 48:34
  Really funny, really dramatic, just a wonderful performance.
• 48:38
  Yeah, tough as all boots, but he's got loads of, I think he's
• 48:41
  pretty much Comic Relief in the film.
• 48:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never far away from a witty quip
• 48:46
  or wither and put down. I love it when he says don't let
• 48:49
  them give the any shit about the ponytail.
• 48:51
  That's just brilliant. Really good.
• 48:52
  That's brilliant. Happy and handsome, yeah.
• 48:55
  Happy and handsome. Brilliant.
• 48:59
  On the back of what you were saying, man, I think it's all
• 49:01
  the more remarkable that we are rooting for Gerard and Tommy Lee
• 49:04
  Jones because this is Harrison Ford, who's been completely done
• 49:08
  wrong by. Yeah, so we're absolutely on his
• 49:11
  side. But then we still have feelings
• 49:13
  for Gerard as well. Yeah, that's all down to TLG.
• 49:16
  Yeah, Yeah. I think because Gerard, as a man
• 49:18
  of the fact, and once he realizes what the facts are, you
• 49:21
  just turn them towards it. Just point the light and just
• 49:23
  mind. He will, he'll go.
• 49:25
  That's fact. That's fine then, because he's
• 49:27
  got zero emotion whatsoever. So all Gimble's got to do is
• 49:30
  find enough fact to change his mind, which is exactly what
• 49:32
  happens. I do like the right in there,
• 49:35
  yeah, yeah. It's true, Yeah.
• 49:36
  So it's not all terrible. No, definitely no.
• 49:38
  They didn't use tip X on everything.
• 49:40
  Yeah. But this is Tommy Lee Jones,
• 49:42
  right? And his character that way.
• 49:44
  Yeah, Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we don't.
• 49:45
  I mean, it's so convoluted and confused.
• 49:48
  Who knows It's. All over the place, but I mean
• 49:50
  ultimately it works. Yeah.
• 49:51
  Oh, it does. That's a good thing.
• 49:52
  Yeah. Gene Hackman and Jon Voight were
• 49:54
  considered for the role of Gerard, but Davis had just
• 49:57
  worked with TLG on Under Siege, and he thought he was perfect
• 49:59
  for the part. He said Tommy Lee Jones was in
• 50:01
  Under Siege more than Steven Seagal, which can only be a good
• 50:04
  thing. That's my quote.
• 50:05
  That's not Davis's quote. Thanks for clarifying that.
• 50:10
  Yeah, And Lee Jones was drawn to the moral complexities of the
• 50:13
  character, saying it was about a decent, innocent man ostracized
• 50:16
  by society being chased by someone that was right but also
• 50:19
  wrong. Which is perfect really.
• 50:21
  Yeah, it is. Yeah.
• 50:22
  Perfect. And he plays it perfectly.
• 50:24
  Yeah. And as we're talking about the
• 50:25
  big dog, it's time that we take a little detour and bring in ATR
• 50:29
  and Patron into the fold. As mentioned at the top, if you
• 50:32
  sign up on Patreon, you can ask us a question for the film that
• 50:35
  we're talking about. Our first of the show comes from
• 50:37
  a long time patron of all the right movies.
• 50:39
  Matt Long. How you doing, Matt?
• 50:41
  Matt. Matt says hi, guys.
• 50:43
  Long time. No question.
• 50:44
  That's true, he says. The Fugitive is one of the most
• 50:47
  rewatchable films in the 90s in my opinion, and I can't wait to
• 50:49
  hear you break it down. Well, I hope we're doing a bang
• 50:51
  up job so far. Yeah, definitely.
• 50:53
  He says 1993 alone was a stellar year for movies.
• 50:56
  My question is, can you name a better example of a supporting
• 50:59
  actor completely stealing the show from the lead actor?
• 51:02
  Especially given how ear list Ford was at the time.
• 51:05
  Yeah, that's a big one. That's a good question.
• 51:08
  A tough one, Matt. Why didn't you go first?
• 51:10
  I'm just. Going to go one because this was
• 51:11
  the first one keeping to mind. I thought, I want to stick this
• 51:13
  one because if you think back to when this film came out, Marlon
• 51:17
  Brando was such a star. But I think you come away from
• 51:19
  The Godfather, yeah, just with Pacino and Jimmy Khan in mind.
• 51:24
  And I think that to me is to consider there were pretty much
• 51:27
  nobodies at the time. And the stealer film from Marlon
• 51:31
  Brando of all people. Yes.
• 51:32
  So that want to be that's. Just such a good example because
• 51:35
  everyone steals it from each other.
• 51:37
  Because Bobby Duval shines in that as well.
• 51:39
  He does and. Then you get a.
• 51:40
  Part 2 and it's on. Gazzoli steals it from Pacino.
• 51:44
  Yeah. It depends who you're watching,
• 51:45
  yeah. But I'll go Pacino and Khan and
• 51:47
  the Godfather. Fantastic.
• 51:48
  Yeah, I think you can't look too far from Rickman and Die Hard.
• 51:53
  We've mentioned him. Yeah.
• 51:54
  I mean, you talked about one of the greatest baddies ever, but
• 51:56
  Willis was nowhere near the star that Ford was at the time.
• 52:00
  I'd say that it was a role reversal for TLG in no country
• 52:04
  where Javier Bardem put in an all timer is And on Sugar.
• 52:07
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, brilliant stream.
• 52:09
  The one that I kept on coming back to was Kilmer as Doc
• 52:11
  Holiday. Yeah, I've got that.
• 52:13
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, not saying that Kurt
• 52:16
  Russell's bad or any of the other cast.
• 52:18
  Kurt Russell's amazing, yeah, but Kilmer puts in the best
• 52:21
  performance of his career. Yes, he does.
• 52:23
  Undoubtedly he isn't. And Westie, what about you?
• 52:25
  I've. Got Alan Rickman as well, but
• 52:27
  Prince of Thieves. Brilliant because.
• 52:30
  He just absolutely wipes the floor with Costner, and Costner
• 52:32
  was probably one of the biggest stars on the planet at that
• 52:34
  point. Ridiculous.
• 52:36
  But I cannot look much further than Heath Ledger in The Dark
• 52:38
  Knight. Yeah, because like every scene
• 52:40
  he's in, he steals the film. Not just, you know, the
• 52:43
  performance. John Goodman in The Big
• 52:46
  Lebowski. Yeah.
• 52:49
  Because every time he's on absolutely nails it.
• 52:51
  It's more of a marriage between the two of them.
• 52:53
  But he does slightly pivot for me in some season.
• 52:57
  The. Last one, the most important one
• 53:00
  for you Luke. Not one for you, Matt, but
• 53:02
  Clancy Brown in Highlander absolutely nails it.
• 53:06
  And the story that's that. Don't put the bed.
• 53:10
  But it's Christophe Lambert, so he's not really got much
• 53:13
  competition. That was literally what I was
• 53:15
  about to say. It's.
• 53:17
  Not a high. Bar.
• 53:18
  I got there first, yeah, but he's still fantastic in that
• 53:20
  film. Nails.
• 53:22
  Fancy Brown's Upstate. She's Christophe Lambert.
• 53:24
  I'm sorry, who? Who said what?
• 53:26
  And as soon as Clancy Brown you both went, what's he going to
• 53:29
  talk about? Shawshank Redemption?
• 53:30
  Flubber. No Highlander.
• 53:36
  And thank you for your question, Matt.
• 53:37
  Yeah, great. Question.
• 53:38
  Thanks mate. A fit and way to wrap up on TLG,
• 53:41
  who put in one of the most memorable supporting
• 53:43
  performances of the decade. Yep, finally, we're talking
• 53:49
  about a man who was probably best known at this point as
• 53:51
  General Koskov in The Living Daylights, but he had started a
• 53:55
  number of productions by Paul Verhoeven as well.
• 53:58
  It is a your own Crabbe, no other playing Charles Nichols.
• 54:02
  Absolutely. Chuck.
• 54:05
  Now it's said that he is quite forgettable in the role to be.
• 54:08
  Absolutely, 100% well nailed. I was going to say that, but
• 54:11
  thanks man. Done right, that's lunch.
• 54:15
  Yeah. Every time he rings him I'm
• 54:17
  like, oh, this guy. I don't really think it's
• 54:22
  Crabe's fault, though. He has to contend with Tommy Lee
• 54:25
  Jones and Harrison Ford, the cast, and he'll always come up
• 54:27
  short. Yeah, exactly.
• 54:29
  But I think the character is poorly written.
• 54:31
  There's no flesh on the bones, no real motivation other than
• 54:34
  generic corporate greed, and it's all an exposition dump
• 54:38
  right at the end. Yeah.
• 54:40
  There's too much, too much at once, He.
• 54:42
  Gets a few fleeting scenes, but not enough to show what he can
• 54:44
  do as an actor. The screenplay just doesn't
• 54:46
  allow it. There's no room for him, even
• 54:49
  though he is the main antagonist, but I'll repeat
• 54:54
  viewings knowing what you know by the end.
• 54:56
  He does bring a nice bit of European sleaze to the role, and
• 55:00
  I mean that with all due respect.
• 55:02
  Yeah, he's cocky and dismissive with Gerald and his team, and it
• 55:05
  does feel like he's holding something from them.
• 55:07
  But as we find out, he's not protecting his friend, he's
• 55:10
  protecting himself. I think there's a nice bit of
• 55:13
  nuance there that can be easily overlooked.
• 55:15
  Yes. Yeah.
• 55:16
  Again, not his fault. But the scene where Richard
• 55:18
  catches up with Charlie, or Chuck, as he calls them in the
• 55:21
  car, How much money is he holding that Richard can now
• 55:24
  afford to rent that room at the Polish lady's house?
• 55:26
  Just a. Couple of books what he had on
• 55:28
  them by the sounds of it. Yeah, there's a down payment.
• 55:32
  Do you need to go through a credit search to get this place?
• 55:37
  Because that's what you usually have to do.
• 55:39
  No, no cold hard cash. Yeah.
• 55:43
  Richard Jordan was cast as bad guy Doctor Charles Nichols and
• 55:46
  shot the majority of his scenes. Really only the final fight
• 55:49
  scenes were left, but he was sadly diagnosed with a brain
• 55:52
  tumor and had to be replaced. Unfortunately, he died three
• 55:56
  weeks after the movie was released.
• 55:57
  That's a heartbreaker. That is a heartbreaker.
• 55:59
  So that mean that won't have been more than six months after
• 56:03
  he shot his scenes because of the the quick production, Yeah.
• 56:06
  Exactly, Yeah. Horrible.
• 56:08
  So Drone Crabby literally came in at the 11th hour.
• 56:11
  He lived in the Netherlands at the time and got a call at night
• 56:13
  from his agent telling him about the film the next day.
• 56:16
  Lately, next day he was on the plane to Chicago just knowing
• 56:19
  very little about the film. He said that he didn't even go
• 56:21
  through customs when he landed, he was just whisked off in a
• 56:23
  limo to the set. Didn't know a lot about the
• 56:25
  film. Just like everyone else, he.
• 56:29
  Didn't go through customs. Julie's contravene in various
• 56:33
  laws here straight. What happened these years?
• 56:36
  No, you know who I would have loved is that character every
• 56:39
  time I watch it though? Charles Gordon.
• 56:42
  I would have loved Gordon in there.
• 56:44
  Why are you bubbly with the Chicago Police Department?
• 56:49
  You know, it's really weird in those scenes where the
• 56:51
  helicopters chasing the ambulance, my mind always goes
• 56:55
  to Midnight Run. Yeah.
• 56:56
  That's probably why I want him in there.
• 56:58
  I just. I didn't feel that sequence.
• 57:00
  Yeah, well, when? He got on set.
• 57:02
  He met Andrew Davis, who thanked him for saving the film.
• 57:05
  Hold your judgment until the scenes are shot, Andrew.
• 57:07
  Yeah. Then he met Harrison Ford, and
• 57:09
  he was a little starstruck. He said to Ford, I was called by
• 57:12
  my agent last night and now I'm here, so I don't know what to
• 57:14
  do. And he put his arms around him
• 57:17
  and he said, I'm going to help you, buddy.
• 57:18
  Don't worry. Can you imagine that arm around
• 57:20
  the shoulder from forward? Yeah.
• 57:23
  He'll do anything you want, Harrison.
• 57:25
  So when he was there, all of the character scenes had to be shot
• 57:27
  again. Ford even wore a fake beard,
• 57:29
  taking hours of makeup to get it right.
• 57:31
  Unbelievable continuity again. It doesn't stand out at all.
• 57:34
  I. Can't tell that no.
• 57:35
  And considering the change up in the cast here, we're changing
• 57:38
  everything else in the script. They probably should have
• 57:40
  changed the character name because this Dutch man does not
• 57:42
  sound like a Chuck Nichols. All right, Chuck.
• 57:47
  So 2 powerhouse performances in the main cast with your own
• 57:50
  Crabby adding credibility to a very strong support cast as
• 57:53
  well. Yes.
• 57:58
  The middle. With only Gerard believing that
• 58:03
  Kimball could have made it out of that time alive, Richard
• 58:05
  stays off the grid, sleeps rough and dyes his hair.
• 58:08
  He. Does.
• 58:09
  Meanwhile, Gerard and his team have some Intel regarding
• 58:12
  another passenger from that fateful bus journey.
• 58:15
  And I'm starting to see you by talking about the sting
• 58:17
  operation that takes Copeland down.
• 58:20
  I got your man. I got your man.
• 58:22
  Shut up. Brilliant.
• 58:25
  Firstly, I think it's weird when Gerard asks Renfro if his cousin
• 58:29
  still has the truck. Call him up, tell him we need
• 58:31
  it. Yeah.
• 58:32
  In what world are the US Marshals calling in favours from
• 58:34
  somebody's cousin who's got a van?
• 58:36
  What the fuck? They don't have their own
• 58:40
  resources. No, we didn't.
• 58:42
  Get a helicopter as quickly as you want on.
• 58:44
  Yeah, helicopter on site to the water.
• 58:47
  Dirty old van that. Need a van, right?
• 58:50
  This is a great scene and it's great at showing how much of A
• 58:52
  badass Gerard is. If we didn't know already, the
• 58:55
  all conversion this location with absolute confidence.
• 58:58
  You think there's going to be a little bit of subtlety maybe in
• 59:00
  their approach, but Sam just smashes the door in his foot.
• 59:05
  Brilliant. Hands.
• 59:07
  I love it. The direct approach.
• 59:09
  Newman gets taken hostage by Copeland straight away, but Sam,
• 59:12
  shown the same coolness throughout the house, makes one
• 59:15
  move through the doorway. 2 shots.
• 59:16
  Bang, Bang. Copeland's down.
• 59:19
  Love it when he tells Copeland's girl to shut up when she's
• 59:22
  weird. Yeah.
• 59:22
  And she shuts up into the shop. Love that.
• 59:25
  Yeah. And he goes out to see Newman.
• 59:26
  Who's complaining? A permanent hearing loss.
• 59:29
  You didn't even bargain with the guy.
• 59:31
  I don't bug. Yeah.
• 59:35
  I mean, yeah. But whispers if say, how's that?
• 59:37
  Yeah, I know you're full of shit.
• 59:38
  Yeah. Yeah, he's like, did you hear
• 59:39
  that? Can you hear me now?
• 59:41
  Yeah, that's great. Really good I.
• 59:43
  Think it's a pretty needless scene for the plot really.
• 59:48
  Yeah. We don't really know how he gets
• 59:50
  the information, don't suppose that's really important, but
• 59:53
  neither is the scene. Nothing changes without it, but
• 59:56
  it's packed with character moments for Gerard and it shows
• 1:00:00
  that if he gets close enough to Richard.
• 1:00:02
  Richard's in big trouble because Copeland went down without a
• 1:00:04
  second thought. Yeah.
• 1:00:05
  Exactly, Yeah. Great character moment
• 1:00:07
  nonetheless. Yeah, and I'm going to talk
• 1:00:09
  about a similar scene because all these scenes of Gerard on
• 1:00:12
  his team, it's so good and so enjoyable because you see how
• 1:00:14
  well horned they are and how much Gerard values them, which
• 1:00:17
  is why the love worker for the main.
• 1:00:19
  We've just talked about what he said to Newman, but I love when
• 1:00:21
  it cuts to him on the phone to obviously some superior trying
• 1:00:25
  to get an explanation of what's gone on.
• 1:00:27
  Brilliant. And Gerard has to defend this
• 1:00:29
  shooting and even first, Newman is one of his kids, which I
• 1:00:33
  think that's a lot about how Gerard views the same.
• 1:00:35
  That's really interesting is he doesn't form under the bus.
• 1:00:37
  There's no, well, he was new in the field.
• 1:00:40
  He's a bit naive. You're caught out.
• 1:00:41
  He's just, well, I guess you can blame me.
• 1:00:43
  I shot the guy and then that's it hangs up.
• 1:00:45
  I really love that about Gerard. And then you get into the scene
• 1:00:48
  where they're listening to the tape that Kimball's made to his
• 1:00:50
  lawyer. And what I really like about
• 1:00:52
  this is that everyone's smart and good at the job.
• 1:00:54
  No one is in this team who was dumb or lazy or just there for a
• 1:00:58
  bit of Comic Relief. And that all comes into play
• 1:01:00
  when they're listening to that tape.
• 1:01:02
  One of those instantly that's nail train.
• 1:01:04
  Then the sort narrowing down well, which cities have else
• 1:01:06
  this one does that one does that one does one of them can isolate
• 1:01:09
  the audio, which I don't know if you can do that one.
• 1:01:12
  It's just on like magnetic tape. Just on a mono record.
• 1:01:16
  Just. On a mono record, it's certainly
• 1:01:17
  not that easily, no. Not that quickly either.
• 1:01:20
  Not that quickly, no. So there's a pothole, but we
• 1:01:22
  skip over that because I'd say it's really good and exciting,
• 1:01:25
  the scene, just working this stuff out and then another one
• 1:01:28
  works out. Oh, that's what's been said in
• 1:01:29
  the background. So that's where he is.
• 1:01:30
  He's right here. So for all like the big dog
• 1:01:34
  stuff that Gerard trots out, these guys are a property, and
• 1:01:37
  this scene demonstrates that. And that wonderful bounce that
• 1:01:39
  the film has in Gerard's investigation is just as
• 1:01:43
  fascinating as Richard attempts to evade capture and work out
• 1:01:47
  what's happened to his wife. It's like what I said about
• 1:01:49
  Tommy Lee Jones has performed. You shouldn't want them to be
• 1:01:51
  able to put these clues together, but you actually
• 1:01:54
  really want them to do it. Yeah, it's like the whole
• 1:01:56
  group's been handpicked by Gerard and nobody's inept.
• 1:01:59
  Oh, definitely not. Definitely.
• 1:02:00
  Yeah. They all add a little bit of
• 1:02:02
  Comic Relief. Yeah, to the scenes as well.
• 1:02:05
  It's not just Gerard. Sammy, when I say I want to come
• 1:02:07
  back just like you. What?
• 1:02:08
  Happy and handsome. Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  Brilliant. Yeah, I'll notify the press.
• 1:02:12
  No press, right. No press.
• 1:02:13
  Brilliant. Great delivery.
• 1:02:15
  Yeah, you can tell. They've worked that out between
• 1:02:17
  themselves. That's not like that's Tommy Lee
• 1:02:20
  Jones. God.
• 1:02:21
  Oh, guys, what can we do? Let let's all make this I'll.
• 1:02:23
  Say this, you say that, you come back with this.
• 1:02:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So straight after that we'll
• 1:02:28
  have Kimball and the dream sequence.
• 1:02:30
  Now there's some bits in this dream sequence that work and the
• 1:02:33
  some bits that really don't, and he's kind of playing on the
• 1:02:35
  horror tropes a little bit too much for me.
• 1:02:37
  And some of their silence when she's kind of straight the
• 1:02:39
  camera like Richard, and it closes really fast and it's just
• 1:02:43
  enough for me. Please wake up there.
• 1:02:44
  That's fine. There's anything more of that
• 1:02:46
  would have been really kind of cringe, but it just pulls it out
• 1:02:49
  at the right moment. But this is really silence.
• 1:02:52
  This is the Silence of the Lambs moment.
• 1:02:53
  Isn't it totally like 2 years ago?
• 1:02:55
  What can we do? All right, Does this build
• 1:02:57
  attention? We think it's actually going to
• 1:02:59
  happen. It's really well placed in the
• 1:03:01
  film. I know that we've talked about
• 1:03:02
  that Copeland bit that could have been anywhere, but this is
• 1:03:04
  really necessary because you think, right, he's done for,
• 1:03:07
  he's got nowhere to go. He's absolutely lost how we're
• 1:03:09
  going to get out with this. Yes.
• 1:03:11
  And it really adds to the tension, like I've said, without
• 1:03:14
  being a massive action sequence because it could have been a big
• 1:03:17
  shootout here that could have been a lot played on this on top
• 1:03:20
  of it. But it's a psychological
• 1:03:21
  sequence where you are on board with Kimball.
• 1:03:23
  And I think it really spurs the character on to know that he's
• 1:03:26
  got away with this. So now he really needs to find
• 1:03:29
  out because I think in his head he thinks I'm done for, I'm
• 1:03:31
  captured, I haven't done everything I wanted to do.
• 1:03:34
  And you get that from Ford's performance where he's just
• 1:03:36
  looking out thinking, I've got a second chance at this now
• 1:03:39
  because this kids now been taken down and it turns out later that
• 1:03:43
  the kid can recognize him. And then it's that's where it
• 1:03:45
  spurns on from there, which is really good.
• 1:03:47
  Plot wise, it really works. But at this moment, I think it
• 1:03:50
  just really gives the audience a bit more fire and wakes you up a
• 1:03:53
  little bit to be like, look, you could get caught at any minute
• 1:03:56
  you thought he was going to. Now he's really got to step up
• 1:03:58
  and find out what's going on. It's brilliant placement.
• 1:04:01
  Really, really good narrative choice in The Fugitive.
• 1:04:03
  It'd probably be the only one. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:04:07
  Yeah. Because Richard knows that the
• 1:04:09
  likelihood is that he's going to get fingered by the guy, the
• 1:04:12
  son. Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  So he has to make his move now. And he knows that Gerard's going
• 1:04:15
  to be on his case. He's.
• 1:04:16
  Been scared and they're doing it.
• 1:04:18
  Brilliant. So with this scene, Richard's
• 1:04:20
  cover is blown and Gerard is once again on his tail.
• 1:04:26
  In the next sequence, Gerard finds out why Richard is
• 1:04:29
  spending so much time at the hospital before cornering him at
• 1:04:32
  City Hall on Saint Patrick's Day.
• 1:04:33
  But first we see his compassion when he saves a young kid at the
• 1:04:36
  hospital. Beautiful scene.
• 1:04:38
  Yeah, over. To you, Matt.
• 1:04:39
  Yeah, I mean, I'll pick the same because this is the one I just
• 1:04:42
  remembered first of all from this film because it's such a
• 1:04:45
  cool move from Kimball, but it's so unnecessary at the same time
• 1:04:50
  because it's so dangerous from this point of almost blown as
• 1:04:53
  cover. He's completely risk of doing
• 1:04:55
  that if he gets found out. You don't go, oh God, this bit
• 1:04:58
  so stupid. You go.
• 1:05:00
  This is so necessary because it does say everything about the
• 1:05:03
  character is as unnecessary as the action is.
• 1:05:06
  It's necessary to tell you about him because it's filled with
• 1:05:09
  tension. It's filled with the sense that
• 1:05:11
  he can't help himself. He's he's such a good guy, He
• 1:05:14
  can't help himself. Yeah, you know, but will this
• 1:05:16
  wreck ever than he's done so far?
• 1:05:18
  But it's a different kind of tension to everything else.
• 1:05:20
  It's not a chase. It's not a fight.
• 1:05:22
  It's not a house being raided. It's a completely different
• 1:05:25
  scenario. And I think that's so much more
• 1:05:27
  effective than if he had just had another near miss with
• 1:05:30
  Gerard. At this point, you need
• 1:05:32
  something different. And it's so well played by Ford
• 1:05:34
  because for the first time in ages, Kimball actually forgets
• 1:05:37
  the trouble he's in because just for just a few brief minutes,
• 1:05:40
  he's a doctor again. And he's just back in his whole
• 1:05:43
  life saving someone. The way he comforts the kid,
• 1:05:45
  working out immediately what's going on with the X-ray and then
• 1:05:48
  getting them into surgery. You can see just that mixture of
• 1:05:51
  pride and relief on his face. And that expression on his face
• 1:05:54
  contrasts so well to Gerald's expression the next day when he
• 1:05:58
  turns up to question the doctor about it.
• 1:05:59
  How's the boy doing? He saved his life like a lover.
• 1:06:03
  When you get this from an actor when they just tell you
• 1:06:04
  everything with no dialogue. The wordless acting from Jones
• 1:06:07
  here because that expression tells you everything he's
• 1:06:10
  thinking. Who is this guy I'm chasing
• 1:06:12
  actually? Like he's gone out of his way to
• 1:06:14
  draw attention himself by saving the kids life.
• 1:06:17
  This isn't adding up that this guy's a killer.
• 1:06:20
  Who killed his wife? Turns the tables on Jared's
• 1:06:22
  mind, doesn't it? It's kind of like.
• 1:06:23
  All right, Am I chasing the bad guy here?
• 1:06:25
  Yeah. Yeah, it's the.
• 1:06:26
  First bit and the last thing about this, and I'm sure you
• 1:06:29
  guys are the same, but this was the first film I'd ever seen
• 1:06:32
  Julianne Moore in as the Doctor Who nearly naps Kimball like
• 1:06:36
  before we knew it was like one of the greatest of her
• 1:06:38
  generation. You come back to this and you
• 1:06:40
  go, you know what, limited screen time.
• 1:06:41
  You can tell she's going to like have such an amazing career.
• 1:06:45
  Real presence, isn't it? Real present and as always, just
• 1:06:48
  absolutely hottest horse as well.
• 1:06:50
  Who? Beautiful.
• 1:06:52
  But that old scene when he saves that, I mean, who doesn't want
• 1:06:54
  to be that guy at that moment? Yeah.
• 1:06:56
  You want to have that authority. You want to have that knowledge.
• 1:06:58
  You want to have that intellect, You want to have that foresight
• 1:07:01
  to say there's something wrong here and I need to fix it.
• 1:07:03
  It's. A beautiful moment just when the
• 1:07:05
  kid goes into the operating theatre or where.
• 1:07:07
  It says by zoom and just. Kind of taps them on the cheek.
• 1:07:11
  Bye bye Joe. What a beautiful moment.
• 1:07:12
  Fantastic, yeah. And I don't know why I like it.
• 1:07:15
  TLG is pronunciation when he leaves Julian Moore behind and
• 1:07:20
  he's messing about with the ID, rips the the cellophane off and
• 1:07:23
  he sees whose ID it actually is. Desmando Jose Ruiz, where you at
• 1:07:29
  Desmando? Love it.
• 1:07:34
  Wonderful. Like Matt said, Julian Moore has
• 1:07:37
  a very small part here and originally a role was much
• 1:07:40
  larger. Warner's put pressure on the
• 1:07:42
  film makers to add a love interest.
• 1:07:44
  So this was written, cast and shot, but it was decided that
• 1:07:47
  the audience would struggle to sympathize with a grieving widow
• 1:07:50
  having a love affair while trying to clear his name.
• 1:07:52
  And I completely agree with that.
• 1:07:54
  There's no room for this. No, that's the three hour
• 1:07:56
  culture. It makes no sense.
• 1:07:59
  That'd be awful. But understandably, Julianne
• 1:08:02
  Moore was pretty upset about this.
• 1:08:03
  Yeah. I mean, she's being cast as the
• 1:08:05
  love interest in the film, essentially.
• 1:08:07
  And her name is fourth in the crash.
• 1:08:09
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  But I think that's there is maybe a bit of an apology.
• 1:08:13
  I'm really sorry. We'll put you forth.
• 1:08:14
  Yeah, yeah, it does see in that way, but.
• 1:08:16
  Despite all that, her performance did catch Steven
• 1:08:18
  Spielberg's eyes so lucky in that respect, and she was cast
• 1:08:21
  in The Lost World as a result of her performance here.
• 1:08:24
  Wow. Not your cuts, no.
• 1:08:26
  This one. Unbelievable.
• 1:08:28
  So following this scene, Richard goes to City Hall to smoke out
• 1:08:31
  one of his possibilities, but obviously he's barking up the
• 1:08:34
  wrong tree. And because Gerard is now on the
• 1:08:36
  same center, Kimball, he's going to pay a visit.
• 1:08:39
  The same person as well. Love the writing here.
• 1:08:42
  Everything's coming together. And this goes back to a few
• 1:08:44
  things that I was saying before. Gerard is so close to Richard,
• 1:08:47
  but he manages to give him the slip believably from an audience
• 1:08:50
  point of view. Really good visuals here with
• 1:08:53
  Gerard seeing Richard through the stairwell.
• 1:08:55
  That's how close he is and he still slips through the net.
• 1:08:58
  I love Richard Decoy. He feeds the police some lying
• 1:09:01
  about a man behind a waving a gun and screaming at a woman.
• 1:09:04
  Great stuff. But also like I said, with
• 1:09:07
  Gerard's ruthless takedown of Copeland, he squeezes off a few
• 1:09:11
  shots. Richard as well.
• 1:09:12
  He was only saved by the bulletproof glass.
• 1:09:14
  Another great visual with his foot caught in the door, he
• 1:09:17
  would have been dead meat. This despite the fact that for
• 1:09:20
  me, I doubt he's beginning to creep in Gerard's thinking
• 1:09:24
  because when he's doing his search, he narrows the field to
• 1:09:26
  only include those with criminal records.
• 1:09:29
  So he's beginning to think in a different direction.
• 1:09:31
  So that kind of goes unsaid, but it adds to the complexities of
• 1:09:34
  this character. What if he did shoot and kill
• 1:09:36
  Richard? I mean, I really don't think
• 1:09:38
  he's got just cause to gun him down in cold blood.
• 1:09:41
  And so I like the complexity of the character.
• 1:09:47
  I like the right in there. Yeah, and Richard makes it out
• 1:09:50
  on the street alive. He does just a great Indiana
• 1:09:53
  Jones moment just getting that door, you see shoe to fall off
• 1:09:57
  and then get his shoe back. But it doesn't really happen.
• 1:10:00
  And yeah, he's he's out in the street and we've got some great
• 1:10:02
  shots of Chicago here, really using the whole city as a real
• 1:10:07
  visual and a real character in it from that rooftop shop where
• 1:10:10
  he's going through the Plaza. Some great aerial shots here and
• 1:10:13
  then goes into this some Patrick's Day parade, which
• 1:10:17
  nobody knew it was going to Paris was going to be there.
• 1:10:18
  You can see the reactions from people and it's wonderful but
• 1:10:21
  the thing that I get from this whole sequence, how beautifully
• 1:10:23
  this is shot by Michael Chapman. The lens choice is perfect
• 1:10:27
  because you see everything without it being distorted and
• 1:10:30
  looking like they just put a camera in there.
• 1:10:32
  It looks like it's necessary. It's.
• 1:10:34
  Sharp it's. Really sharp and it's really
• 1:10:36
  slow. They're not there's.
• 1:10:37
  There's nothing erratic about the camera movements.
• 1:10:39
  They're all very considered and Gerard turns around at one point
• 1:10:43
  and just kind of looks behind him, doesn't know where
• 1:10:45
  everything is, and the camera is just very considered and it's
• 1:10:48
  just very patient and very slow, as if they've got permission to
• 1:10:50
  shoot there. So it feels to me like there's a
• 1:10:52
  big truck or a big crane or a big Steadicam that's actually
• 1:10:56
  moving around and everyone's just ignoring it.
• 1:10:58
  And I think that's credit the Chapman as well to make this
• 1:11:00
  look so good. Without that, that chase.
• 1:11:02
  Seems as well internally in the hospital that's just so well
• 1:11:06
  pierced, so well done, and it kind of gives you a sense of
• 1:11:09
  scale and a sense of that. He's actually got the other hand
• 1:11:12
  here. It's really, really fantastic.
• 1:11:14
  So if just from that last shot of Gerard, last shot of Tommy
• 1:11:16
  Lee Jones just jumping up in desperation to try and have a
• 1:11:19
  look further forward, just this whole sequence is just so
• 1:11:22
  beautifully shot in that it feels cinematic when it should
• 1:11:26
  feel like a documentary. That's what I really love about
• 1:11:28
  this whole sequence. Yeah, yeah, it's brilliant.
• 1:11:31
  So, so good. And.
• 1:11:32
  That's we've been alluding to this parade, who was shot during
• 1:11:34
  the actual parade. Ford and Jones went into the
• 1:11:37
  crowd without any rehearsals, just followed by small camera
• 1:11:39
  crew and the hat that fought picked up wasn't a property.
• 1:11:42
  Just improvise that for the scene.
• 1:11:44
  Amazing, yeah. Works a charm straight.
• 1:11:46
  Out the bin like. Nothing planned.
• 1:11:49
  We've only got one shot at this because this is an actual
• 1:11:51
  location with real people who don't know they're being filmed.
• 1:11:54
  The mayor of Chicago has given his blessing to film during one
• 1:11:57
  of the biggest days in the city's calendar.
• 1:11:59
  Should we do any planning? Do it on the night you.
• 1:12:03
  Can't tell. It looks like it's been
• 1:12:05
  meticulously planned out. Yeah, but maybe I think Chapman
• 1:12:08
  had thought out the movements and the lens choice and knew
• 1:12:11
  what he was going to frame and it was the content that was that
• 1:12:14
  wasn't necessarily planned. But it feels to me like the
• 1:12:16
  whole crew knew where they were going and what they were going
• 1:12:18
  to do with it. Content was definitely not
• 1:12:20
  planned. Definitely.
• 1:12:20
  Not no. Unbelievable.
• 1:12:22
  The moves I think were. Ford kept low profile before he
• 1:12:25
  was recognized, so they had to get it all done quickly.
• 1:12:27
  I think you can tell because there isn't a shot that goes
• 1:12:30
  beyond maybe 10 seconds, no? Yeah, because people are kind of
• 1:12:33
  starting to realize that it cuts.
• 1:12:34
  Yeah, and there's a really, it's really small detail, but there's
• 1:12:38
  a really weird line from the announcer at the parade, which
• 1:12:41
  is obviously a real announcer because there's a real parade.
• 1:12:44
  I imagine he's talking about the baton twirl as he says there's
• 1:12:48
  definitely no arthritis in this group.
• 1:12:53
  You can overdo anything. Leave it in.
• 1:12:55
  Leave that in. But also very interestingly,
• 1:13:01
  there was another film being shot on the day of the parade in
• 1:13:04
  Chicago. Michael Apted was filming Blink
• 1:13:06
  starring Madeleine Store, and the two crews bumped into each
• 1:13:10
  other a couple of times during filming.
• 1:13:12
  Like what are the odds of two films shooting guerrilla style
• 1:13:16
  during since Patrick's Day parade, Chicago.
• 1:13:18
  Into each other. All right.
• 1:13:19
  All right. Yeah.
• 1:13:19
  Anything good? Yeah.
• 1:13:20
  What lens you want? Like a bit from Shaun of the
• 1:13:23
  Dead, whether just crossed paths.
• 1:13:25
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly the same.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah. Hello.
• 1:13:28
  Hello. Hello So, another cat and mouse
• 1:13:31
  chase with Richard giving Sam the slip yet again in a
• 1:13:35
  brilliantly chaotic sequence. Fantastic stuff, the crew.
• 1:13:44
  A lot of strong elements working well in The Crew, but that's
• 1:13:46
  probably not reflected in the screenplay for The Fugitive
• 1:13:49
  written by David Tui and Jeb Stewart.
• 1:13:52
  We'll get to the incredible behind the scenes story of the
• 1:13:55
  script in a moment, but first, our thoughts on the right and of
• 1:13:57
  The Fugitive. Matt, it's over to you.
• 1:13:59
  The way I'm going to look at this is that in the 90s there
• 1:14:02
  seemed to be this glut of films that were adaptations of TV
• 1:14:07
  shows. You had The Saints, The
• 1:14:09
  Avengers, not that one, the other one, Lost in Space, Wild,
• 1:14:11
  Wild West. This is the only one that
• 1:14:14
  worked. This is the only one that's
• 1:14:15
  memorable. I think that's because the
• 1:14:17
  episode nature of that show works as a feature film because
• 1:14:20
  the others have a story that needed to be played out over
• 1:14:23
  several seasons or there was series that suited the 45 or 50
• 1:14:27
  minute format, whatever it was with self-contained stories.
• 1:14:31
  And I think The Fugitive has both.
• 1:14:32
  Like each episode was self-contained, but there was an
• 1:14:35
  ultimate end goal. And I think being able to
• 1:14:37
  combine those elements in the writing is what made it work on
• 1:14:40
  screen. And it still has that episodic
• 1:14:42
  nature to it. It feels like this is a film
• 1:14:45
  where there's a cliffhanger every 20 minutes.
• 1:14:47
  The train crash, the drum from the dam, the raid on the House,
• 1:14:50
  Kimball putting this piece of the puzzle together.
• 1:14:52
  How's he going to get out this time?
• 1:14:53
  You know, TuneIn next week to find out.
• 1:14:56
  That's the kind of flaw that I think the right and hassle.
• 1:14:59
  It shows its TV routes, but in a good way.
• 1:15:01
  Now, how much of that was planned?
• 1:15:03
  How much of that was just done on the day by a variety of
• 1:15:06
  people? How much that was just down to
• 1:15:08
  shear? Look, that's another question
• 1:15:09
  entirely. Yeah.
• 1:15:11
  Exactly. You know, we've talked about the
• 1:15:13
  issues with the writing. We've got more to see you later.
• 1:15:16
  But what I really like here is the detective story.
• 1:15:18
  Not one, but two of them. Yes, yeah, definitely.
• 1:15:21
  First off, you've got Richard's investigation into who this one
• 1:15:23
  our man is, the reasons for one, and Richard and or his wife
• 1:15:27
  dead, the test results of the probasic whose lengths, all of
• 1:15:31
  that stuff which he hopes will clear his name.
• 1:15:33
  It has to be complex enough for it to be overlooked by the
• 1:15:36
  police, and I think the right has managed that very well.
• 1:15:39
  And it's not just Richard keeping a low profile until
• 1:15:41
  Gerard works out that he's innocent, because as he said
• 1:15:44
  before, I don't care. Gerard isn't there to prove
• 1:15:47
  innocent or guilt, he's there to take Richard in.
• 1:15:51
  And Richard knows the way that injustice prevails, so he has to
• 1:15:53
  conduct his own research if he wants to be proven innocence.
• 1:15:57
  And then you've got Gerard and his crew.
• 1:15:59
  Hot on the heels of Richard, They carry out their own
• 1:16:01
  investigation into the circumstances surrounding
• 1:16:03
  Helen's death, so they can question people close to Richard
• 1:16:05
  in the hope that they can narrow down his whereabouts.
• 1:16:08
  Maybe. They're always tantalizing me
• 1:16:11
  just one step behind Richard at every turn.
• 1:16:13
  And for the most part, they are solely focused on Richard as a
• 1:16:16
  suspect because, you know, that's their job.
• 1:16:18
  That is, until the two detective stories converge, Richard leaves
• 1:16:22
  the trail of bread comes from Gerard to arrive at the
• 1:16:24
  conclusion that Kimball is innocent because the evidence is
• 1:16:27
  too compelling to ignore. Brilliant.
• 1:16:29
  Really like that. Now, whether that was Jeb
• 1:16:33
  Stewart, whether that was David Tui, whether that was Andy
• 1:16:38
  Davis, whether that was any member of the cast or crew, who
• 1:16:42
  knows, But I think that's really good writing.
• 1:16:47
  Yeah. The narrative beats that come
• 1:16:49
  with that as well to get to that conclusion at the end. the IT
• 1:16:52
  may be bottom loaded but really like the writing from that
• 1:16:55
  perspective. Yeah, I think what I really like
• 1:16:58
  about the writing is that this, it kind of subverts the
• 1:17:02
  characters and there's a real lack of cliche here.
• 1:17:04
  The escaped criminals, the hero, and then you've got the
• 1:17:07
  detective who's the bad guy. You've got the whole group that
• 1:17:10
  is around the detective who, like Matt said, there's nobody
• 1:17:13
  who's just fumbling around who's going to mess anything like
• 1:17:16
  that. There's no character in here
• 1:17:17
  that you would expect to act the way that they act.
• 1:17:20
  You know, he's best mates, the bad guy.
• 1:17:22
  Everything kind of subverts the expectation and I think that's
• 1:17:25
  what's really important in the writing.
• 1:17:27
  And I think what else works in the writing, Like Matt said, it
• 1:17:30
  is episodic. You know, all of these bits that
• 1:17:32
  we've talked about, like he saves the kids life.
• 1:17:34
  You can see the elevator doors shutting and it's like this is
• 1:17:37
  what's going to happen next week whether you like it or not.
• 1:17:39
  It is consistent about what this journey is, and it never loses
• 1:17:43
  track of who Kimball is and what he's trying to achieve.
• 1:17:47
  It doesn't sidetrack. Yes, there's plot holes in it,
• 1:17:49
  but that's always going to happen when it's just been put
• 1:17:51
  together as it's been put together.
• 1:17:54
  And I think the issue with the rightness that they had too much
• 1:17:56
  to play with. They had too much to try and fit
• 1:17:59
  in. They were.
• 1:17:59
  Trying to contents a whole TV show into two hour film.
• 1:18:02
  Exactly. There's just so there's so many
• 1:18:04
  things you can get excited about.
• 1:18:05
  Where's this guy going to go next?
• 1:18:07
  Who's he going to go? What about this?
• 1:18:08
  What about this back story? What about this character?
• 1:18:10
  And I think a lot of it is that loads to play without a play
• 1:18:13
  with the tapestry and the need to make it into a comic book.
• 1:18:16
  Do you know what I mean? So when he condense all of this
• 1:18:18
  massive renaissance down into something that actually makes
• 1:18:22
  sense and it does make sense and it is enjoyable and it does flow
• 1:18:25
  and it does work. The problem with the writing is
• 1:18:28
  I think that both Jeb Stuart and David Toohey just got too
• 1:18:31
  excited. So.
• 1:18:32
  As we've mentioned, The Fugitive was based on the 60s TV show of
• 1:18:35
  the same name that ran from 1963 and 1967.
• 1:18:39
  It was a massive show, with the finale being watched by more
• 1:18:41
  than 78 million people. Despite the claim being refuted
• 1:18:45
  by the makers of the original show, it's been noted that it
• 1:18:47
  was partly inspired by the true story of Sam Shepard.
• 1:18:50
  Not that one. A doctor from Cleveland who was
• 1:18:53
  found guilty of murdering his wife at their home.
• 1:18:55
  He went to jail, but he was later released after a retrial.
• 1:18:58
  Producer Arnold Corbinson loved the show and have been trying to
• 1:19:01
  get an adaptation off the ground since the 80s.
• 1:19:04
  Co producer of the film Stephen Joel Brown said the courtesan
• 1:19:07
  was on a quest to get the rights for that show.
• 1:19:09
  Wow, loved it. Yeah.
• 1:19:11
  Absolutely loved it. And a number of screenwriters
• 1:19:13
  wrote unsuccessful drafts, including Walter Hill.
• 1:19:16
  And Hill's version of the film had Sam Gerard Hyman A1 on Man
• 1:19:19
  to Kill Kimball's Wife because of Kimball's botched surgery on
• 1:19:22
  his own wife. Really.
• 1:19:24
  Walter Hill? That lovely in a swamp?
• 1:19:26
  Yeah. Right to David to his first
• 1:19:31
  script was horror film Warlock from 1989, produced by
• 1:19:35
  Corbelson. They didn't really get on with
• 1:19:37
  each other to he said that they were like oil and water.
• 1:19:39
  Corbelson even fired him from the set of Warlock before he
• 1:19:42
  reluctantly hired him back on. Said Corbelson told him that he
• 1:19:45
  was adapting The Fugitive to He said Arnold, you've got Les
• 1:19:48
  Miserables on your hands. Culverson was impressed with his
• 1:19:54
  comments and struck a deal right there and then, despite their
• 1:19:58
  differences, for TUI to write a screenplay.
• 1:20:00
  Wow. Two, he's original script was a
• 1:20:03
  huge adventure spanning the length and breadth of the US.
• 1:20:07
  The final act would have been stretched across 3 NE states.
• 1:20:10
  Kimballs deceased wife. This is amazing.
• 1:20:12
  Kimball's deceased wife was a cool Baron's daughter.
• 1:20:15
  Turns out that the one armed man worked at the coal mine, lost
• 1:20:18
  his arm in a horrific accident and killed Richard's wife as
• 1:20:21
  revenge on the coal Baron. Brilliant.
• 1:20:27
  Les Miserables right there. Steals a loaf of bread on the
• 1:20:32
  way. This is insane.
• 1:20:34
  Kimball wound up having an affair with his dead wife's
• 1:20:37
  sister while on the run and found out that their dad was a
• 1:20:40
  horrendous person who had molested his two daughters.
• 1:20:43
  Corbelson didn't like this idea. I mean, of course he didn't, but
• 1:20:47
  maybe not for the reasons that you would think.
• 1:20:49
  Because. He said to To me, that's nothing
• 1:20:51
  anymore. It's almost fashionable to abuse
• 1:20:53
  your daughters in the Movies Now.
• 1:20:54
  Everybody does that. What?
• 1:20:56
  Wow, dear me Arnold, the 90s I know.
• 1:21:00
  Yeah, well, the 90s. What the 9th century?
• 1:21:06
  Wow, the end scene was a showdown between Kimball and his
• 1:21:09
  former father-in-law at the coal mine.
• 1:21:11
  I mean, what's going on here? Mental.
• 1:21:14
  Ultimately 2. He was taken off the project and
• 1:21:16
  replaced by Jeb Stewart. Ironic considering Stewart was
• 1:21:19
  the original writer on Die Hard and a lot of his ideas were
• 1:21:22
  trashed when Stephen, Ed, Susan. Oh, that's right.
• 1:21:24
  Yeah, that's right. Forgot about that.
• 1:21:25
  Yeah. And Stewart thought the script I
• 1:21:27
  had was too expansive. It would work on episodic TV,
• 1:21:30
  but not in the two hour movie. So he scaled it right back.
• 1:21:32
  And he said to me that problem is really simple.
• 1:21:36
  I didn't kill my wife and nobody believes me.
• 1:21:38
  And the only way you can figure out what actually happened is to
• 1:21:40
  go back into the belly of the beast, which was going to be
• 1:21:42
  Chicago. Brilliant.
• 1:21:44
  A lot of what made it to the screen were part of Tui's
• 1:21:46
  original idea. The prison Bush out, the train
• 1:21:49
  collision with the bus and Kimball visit, and the one on
• 1:21:51
  man in prison were all present early on.
• 1:21:53
  Originally the damn jump scene was much larger in school and
• 1:21:56
  set at Niagara Falls. Of course it was 2 week.
• 1:21:59
  God bless you. Stuart kept the premise but
• 1:22:02
  trimmed down the scale. Yeah, I mean, just the logistics
• 1:22:05
  of filming at Niagara Falls. Yeah, Come on, David I.
• 1:22:08
  Mean that's that's a huge script.
• 1:22:10
  Yeah, so as we've discussed already, a lot of changes were
• 1:22:13
  made at the script, Andrew Davis said.
• 1:22:15
  The screenplay was more of a loose guideline than a
• 1:22:17
  screenplay. He actually never met David
• 1:22:19
  Dewey, but Jeb Stewart was on set doing rewrites every day,
• 1:22:23
  right? And Davis also claimed that 70%
• 1:22:25
  of the dialogue in the film is improvised, he said.
• 1:22:28
  Every morning I'll talk through the scenes with the actors,
• 1:22:31
  would improvise, rehearse, then shoot.
• 1:22:33
  I'm sure the studio were just thinking what's going on.
• 1:22:35
  Yeah, and some of the funniest lines in the film were
• 1:22:37
  improvised, such as Gerard saying, think we have a cup of
• 1:22:40
  coffee and a chocolate doughnut with some of those little
• 1:22:42
  sprinkles on top. I mean, that's a great line.
• 1:22:43
  Brilliant. Yeah, apparently I know.
• 1:22:45
  And Lee John shadowed a real US Marshall in prep for the film,
• 1:22:48
  and he talked about a guy that jumped off a roofs and he did a
• 1:22:51
  Peter Pan. Both Pantoliano and Lee Jones
• 1:22:53
  loved it, and both wanted the line for their character.
• 1:22:56
  Obviously, Tommy won. Of course he did.
• 1:22:59
  Yeah. So we've got our second question
• 1:23:02
  from an ATRM patron. This one is Michael Smith.
• 1:23:05
  Hi, Michael. Hello, Michael.
• 1:23:07
  Michael says hi, guys. Just wanted to say thanks for
• 1:23:10
  the amazing podcasts. You're too kind.
• 1:23:12
  Oh, bless you. Thanks mate.
• 1:23:13
  Michael strangely also says my mates and I have run and choke
• 1:23:17
  about kidnapping Westy for a night so he can settle some of
• 1:23:20
  our more heated movie debates at our local pub in classic Westy
• 1:23:24
  style. Classic Westy.
• 1:23:27
  That's what he wants. Classic Westy.
• 1:23:29
  You don't have to kidnap. It's just let us know where it
• 1:23:31
  is and if you're buying the pints, I'll be more than happy
• 1:23:33
  to turn up you're. Weirded out by this at always.
• 1:23:35
  Happens all the time. Kidnapping's a bit weird, but
• 1:23:40
  just, you know, if you kidnapping.
• 1:23:40
  Strong. It is very strong, yeah.
• 1:23:43
  Well, here's his question, Westy.
• 1:23:45
  Michael says the fugitive throws a straight into the action with
• 1:23:48
  barely any setup. Yeah, yeah, we're all in on
• 1:23:51
  Kimball from the start. Yes.
• 1:23:52
  What is it that may work so well?
• 1:23:54
  And can you think of any of the films that managed to hook you
• 1:23:56
  emotionally without giving much back story as it's almost an
• 1:24:01
  homage to you? This question, Wesley, why don't
• 1:24:03
  you go first? I.
• 1:24:04
  Mean that's very kind. I think it works so well because
• 1:24:07
  it's Harrison Ford, let's be honest.
• 1:24:09
  And we do get a really good really well at it is opening
• 1:24:13
  sequence that is terrifying. They really set a tone where you
• 1:24:16
  think I feel really uncomfortable and it's an
• 1:24:18
  uncomfortable opening for me. Films that absolutely slam you
• 1:24:21
  straight in without any back story to the character
• 1:24:23
  whatsoever. And I'm hooked from the opening
• 1:24:25
  sequence. First one always is going to be
• 1:24:27
  Pulp Fiction. I'm I'm sold 100 once that
• 1:24:31
  didn't Linda then I mean, I don't give a shit what happens
• 1:24:33
  after that Mad Max Fury Rd. I felt exactly the same with
• 1:24:37
  that. It's a slight voice over of who
• 1:24:40
  he was. You know who Mad Max is, but
• 1:24:42
  it's a completely different take and you are in heat.
• 1:24:45
  I'm always in because that is going to explain as it goes.
• 1:24:49
  But the one that really first got me when I when I saw it and
• 1:24:52
  was spoke about it before, is probably going to be with first
• 1:24:54
  foreign language film is a samurai.
• 1:24:56
  Wow, with Adelyn like that. I mean just the opening shots of
• 1:25:00
  that, the opening credits and then you realise is on the bed.
• 1:25:03
  Smorgan I'm Who is this guy? Perfect.
• 1:25:06
  Incredible visuals, Unbelievable.
• 1:25:08
  Very similar to USD. Ends are got a lot to do.
• 1:25:11
  Pretty much everything to do with the casting of Richard
• 1:25:13
  Kimble. Because it's Harrison Ford.
• 1:25:15
  Yeah, one of the most beloved actors on the planet put him in
• 1:25:19
  a position where we know he didn't do it.
• 1:25:21
  He immediately puts us on his side with a huge sense of
• 1:25:23
  injustice. Yeah.
• 1:25:24
  And we're bringing all of our emotional baggage to this
• 1:25:27
  particular party with Harrison Ford as Indie and Han Solo.
• 1:25:30
  So if his beloved is brutally murdered and he's sentenced to
• 1:25:33
  death in the 1st 10 minutes, you're going to be furious.
• 1:25:36
  About it, yeah, it was tried and tested with frantic as well,
• 1:25:38
  wasn't it? Let's be honest.
• 1:25:39
  Yeah, absolutely. Know where we are.
• 1:25:41
  Really smart cast and allowing us to take quite a few emotional
• 1:25:44
  shortcuts. I think it's the emotional
• 1:25:47
  element that allows us to be bought in immediately and with
• 1:25:49
  that in mind of the films that bring you in with an immediate
• 1:25:52
  circumstance from an emotional point of view.
• 1:25:55
  A Quiet Place. Oh, nice.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah, I know. Nothing of this family but that
• 1:25:59
  silent, devastating scene has got you invested strong.
• 1:26:02
  Anything of the monsters, really.
• 1:26:04
  Yeah. Yeah, we know nothing about it.
• 1:26:06
  Sound still the greatest joke that has ever been cracked in
• 1:26:11
  ADRM history. West, yeah.
• 1:26:13
  It's sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:26:15
  Great. That's my absolute favorite.
• 1:26:16
  Yeah, that's if you. Don't know what that is.
• 1:26:18
  We talked about that on a double feature show, so you'll need to
• 1:26:22
  sign up to become a Patreon support to do that, please,
• 1:26:25
  because it was hilarious. Yeah, it's.
• 1:26:27
  Worth signing up just for that one joke, to be honest.
• 1:26:29
  Just for that. Nothing else beautiful.
• 1:26:31
  The only flash of inspiration I've ever had in life.
• 1:26:33
  So it's worth, it's worth signing up for that.
• 1:26:35
  You're too modest, and I thought of two other films with similar
• 1:26:39
  concepts. A little bit left field for the
• 1:26:41
  first one Buried starring Ryan Reynolds.
• 1:26:44
  OK, Yeah. And the other 127 hours with
• 1:26:48
  James Strangle. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 1:26:50
  Think because those two scenarios being buried alive,
• 1:26:53
  being trapped, similar themes and ones which I just think are
• 1:26:57
  relatable because it taps into emotional primal fears.
• 1:27:00
  So I think you just invested in those characters and you just
• 1:27:03
  want a happy ending for them. Yeah, not necessarily.
• 1:27:06
  Not necessarily. No.
• 1:27:08
  What about you, Matt? Very.
• 1:27:09
  Much the same. It was literally the first thing
• 1:27:11
  I wrote down, the casting of Harrison Ford at that point.
• 1:27:16
  The fact that the situation he's in is obviously just so like,
• 1:27:19
  instantly understandable. That's the last position you
• 1:27:22
  ever want to be in. And the fact that this goes by
• 1:27:25
  so fast, I mean, probably too fast, as we've been saying,
• 1:27:28
  there's a lot of plot holes, but then bam bam, bam, he's on death
• 1:27:31
  row straight away. So that really helps.
• 1:27:32
  And then in terms of other films that work emotionally without
• 1:27:35
  too much back story, one we talked about fairly recently on
• 1:27:39
  a double feature, but the opening of Carrie, by the end of
• 1:27:42
  that shower saying you are 100% on Carrie's side.
• 1:27:46
  You just want her to be OK for the rest of the film.
• 1:27:50
  I think similarly, Gravity, you don't get too much back.
• 1:27:52
  Sorry with good Rebelox character before you know the
• 1:27:55
  whole host dish it up there and you just want her to make it
• 1:27:58
  back OK because yeah, I mean just by yourself in like
• 1:28:02
  seemingly insurmountable odds. Yeah.
• 1:28:04
  And the other one as well. I think up the pixel film once
• 1:28:07
  you get through that first 10 minutes, that married life
• 1:28:10
  sequence, just. I think an.
• 1:28:12
  Incredible storytelling without a word of dialogue, and you're
• 1:28:15
  just so invested in that story from that moment on.
• 1:28:18
  Yeah, yeah, I'll put Apocalypse Now in there as well.
• 1:28:21
  That performance machine. Oh, I'll shoehorn that in
• 1:28:25
  anything. It was the segue from after
• 1:28:28
  Apocalypse Now that I'm laughing at.
• 1:28:30
  Well, why do you? Mention up that you know what's
• 1:28:32
  things to mine. There's classic Westy in classic
• 1:28:39
  math, side by side. Colliding like a train and a bus
• 1:28:43
  Amazing. Well, I've actually pulled a
• 1:28:46
  muscle in the side. I love Monsters Inc.
• 1:28:53
  What do you think of the thing? Let's go, man.
• 1:29:00
  Wall E's great. Well, last house on the left.
• 1:29:07
  Wonderful. All right.
• 1:29:09
  OK, great. Sorry.
• 1:29:10
  Thank you very much for your question, Michael.
• 1:29:12
  That's Michael. I'll see you in the pub bro.
• 1:29:16
  His round. Absolutely.
• 1:29:17
  I'm a pain. It is a wonder that we are
• 1:29:19
  bought in emotionally considering the haphazard nature
• 1:29:22
  of the writing, but there are some real strong elements that
• 1:29:24
  shine through in the screen. Yes.
• 1:29:26
  Definitely. Now over to the score by a man
• 1:29:30
  that we've talked about a few times on the show, It is James
• 1:29:34
  Newton Howard. Now, I think Newton Howard's
• 1:29:36
  score works effectively because I think it mirrors the film
• 1:29:39
  central cat and mouse dynamic across Chicago and you know, the
• 1:29:43
  outer areas. The music's got this kind of
• 1:29:45
  relentless pulse. It's always there.
• 1:29:48
  It mirrors Gerard's pursuit. You can feel Kimball's
• 1:29:51
  desperation in those drive in string sections, always one step
• 1:29:55
  away from being caught, and Gerard always one step behind,
• 1:29:58
  and I feel as though that's mirrored in the music.
• 1:30:01
  Yeah, he amplifies the score with those expansive shots of
• 1:30:04
  the city. But then in the quieter moments,
• 1:30:06
  the more claustrophobic moments, the muse becomes sparse, almost
• 1:30:09
  tingling with anticipation. But it's not just about the
• 1:30:13
  action scenes. There's a wonderful comfort and
• 1:30:14
  piece of music when the scene that we talked about when
• 1:30:17
  Richard helps Joel out in the hospital, when he gets wheeled
• 1:30:20
  away, the surgery, there's something really nourishing
• 1:30:23
  about Newton Howard's music there, emphasizing Kimball's
• 1:30:27
  character. As we talked about, he knows
• 1:30:29
  when to pull back as well during quieter moments, placing the
• 1:30:31
  emphasis on the character. But his work elevates the scenes
• 1:30:34
  that aren't the most well written.
• 1:30:37
  I think maintaining a sense of urgency and stick.
• 1:30:39
  It's not going to set the world on fire.
• 1:30:41
  This score by Newton Howard. There are no real themes you can
• 1:30:44
  grab onto, but overall I think the music sticks to the film
• 1:30:48
  like glue. Yeah, I think it's really solid
• 1:30:50
  work. Yeah.
• 1:30:51
  What about you? There's a lot of music in this
• 1:30:54
  film, isn't it A. Lot of music.
• 1:30:55
  Nearly every scene there's something to back it apart from
• 1:31:00
  when I watched it again. A lot of Jared scenes when it's
• 1:31:02
  in the police station especially and he's talking to his crew,
• 1:31:05
  there's no music about that whatsoever because there's no
• 1:31:07
  emotion attached to it. Once Jared starts getting more
• 1:31:10
  emotional this the discord starts to creep in.
• 1:31:13
  Everything with Kimball, there is an emotion and it absolutely
• 1:31:17
  works. I mean, the chase before the
• 1:31:19
  Saint Patrick's Day, it's just pulse underneath it and it just
• 1:31:23
  builds and it really works. What James Newton Howard was
• 1:31:26
  doing at this point, I can see a lot of it in his work now, but
• 1:31:29
  it's a lot more confident now. I can see a lot of this in The
• 1:31:31
  Sixth Sense. I can see a lot of it.
• 1:31:33
  Unbreakable, everything did with them.
• 1:31:34
  My time might be fair a lot in Unbreakable.
• 1:31:37
  He can really do pound and kind of action and really push things
• 1:31:42
  along. And I don't know whether that's
• 1:31:44
  Andrew Davis putting a lot on James Newton Howard here.
• 1:31:48
  Put this music here to explain what's going on here.
• 1:31:51
  And I think with less music, this might be a better film.
• 1:31:54
  Wow. Not taking that away from from
• 1:31:56
  Newton Howard at all, but less is more for me, always is.
• 1:31:59
  And I think if you take some of the bits out, especially from
• 1:32:02
  the action sequences, it doesn't need a lot of this music.
• 1:32:05
  But it's, I think he's just overused.
• 1:32:07
  I don't know, he kind of maybe felt the pressure from that.
• 1:32:09
  Davis as well used six editors. I'm surprised he hasn't used 3
• 1:32:12
  composers. But to be perfectly honest,
• 1:32:15
  James Newton Howard has done the job of three composers job.
• 1:32:18
  On this definitely. It's a very, very nightly
• 1:32:20
  soundtrack in the sense that this was in 80s film.
• 1:32:24
  It could be an absolute cheese fest, inappropriate theme song
• 1:32:27
  at the start, but I think absolutely.
• 1:32:29
  Yeah. By the time you get into the
• 1:32:30
  90s, this kind of from the movement away, if not, obviously
• 1:32:33
  it has a much more serious tone and I think the music fits that.
• 1:32:36
  And I say this very 90s. I mean, there's still a lot of
• 1:32:39
  synths in there, but it's not the kind of warm burgly synths
• 1:32:42
  from like Beverly Hills Cop, is it?
• 1:32:44
  This is kind. Of like, yeah, it's not to live
• 1:32:46
  and die in LA, it's. More traditional, isn't it?
• 1:32:48
  It's more strings. It's more strings.
• 1:32:50
  Based. Kestrel.
• 1:32:52
  More Kestrel. Stuff like Love reminds me, like
• 1:32:54
  Bjork would use in her music that those kind of strings.
• 1:32:58
  So I think for the most part, it just kind of bubbles underneath
• 1:33:00
  the visuals. But then you get that montage
• 1:33:02
  sequence where there's no dialogue.
• 1:33:04
  Kimball's putting his plan in an operation, Gerald's putting his
• 1:33:07
  leads together, and you get that big swell of orchestral music,
• 1:33:10
  those big strings off the top of it.
• 1:33:12
  So, you know, you never see The Fugitive mentioned in terms of
• 1:33:15
  great soundtracks and I think that's fair.
• 1:33:17
  I'd agree really, there's no massively memorable themes here
• 1:33:20
  and it is off its time, but it does do the job it needs to.
• 1:33:23
  And maybe like taking Wesley's point about is there too much,
• 1:33:26
  maybe the job it needed to do was act as a big stick and
• 1:33:29
  plaster over everything. When they've got, as we've been
• 1:33:31
  saying, they've got six different editors working on
• 1:33:33
  different bits and they've got just have lots of music as I
• 1:33:36
  will knit it all together somehow, hopefully.
• 1:33:39
  And Newton Howard had worked with Andrew Davis before on The
• 1:33:41
  Package, which is a Hackman and Tommy Lee Jones film from 1989.
• 1:33:45
  And it does actually share similar plot points to The
• 1:33:48
  Fugitive. And Davis said he really was a
• 1:33:50
  great classical player. He could play anything, but he
• 1:33:52
  also had a great sense of rhythm.
• 1:33:54
  He could work in the classical world and he could be very funky
• 1:33:56
  and hip at the same time. I.
• 1:33:58
  Think he's just described you there, wasn't he?
• 1:33:59
  Well, absolutely. Apart from funky.
• 1:34:03
  I don't think I'm funky. I'd like to be, well, definitely
• 1:34:06
  hip though. Hip replacement.
• 1:34:12
  That's just classic Yeah, builders open then knock us down
• 1:34:15
  immediately. It sounds like USD you fucking
• 1:34:19
  old bastard. And I know what he means,
• 1:34:23
  though. It's got kind of like a solemn
• 1:34:25
  orchestral feel, but then there's some drum and jazz piano
• 1:34:28
  thrown in there. Yeah.
• 1:34:30
  He'd been working since the early 80s in movie music.
• 1:34:33
  And he just received an Oscar nomination for his work on
• 1:34:35
  Prince of Times as well. So he was making a name for
• 1:34:38
  himself. And despite his pedigree, he
• 1:34:40
  said that The Fugitive was the biggest film he'd worked on up
• 1:34:43
  to that point. And then he was terrified when
• 1:34:45
  he was first hired. One particular moment when he
• 1:34:47
  was scoring the scene when Richard steals the ambulance and
• 1:34:50
  he's being chased by the helicopter.
• 1:34:52
  He initially you use temp music right by who you're going to go
• 1:34:55
  for Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams, of course, fantastic
• 1:34:58
  set the bar. I said I was ready to commit
• 1:35:01
  suicide because they were just so great.
• 1:35:03
  It scared me to death. Like he's really going to match
• 1:35:05
  that. Don't.
• 1:35:06
  Go for Williams and go. Exactly.
• 1:35:09
  Yeah, but he need not a fear either.
• 1:35:11
  He was Oscar nominated again for his efforts here, and the score
• 1:35:15
  for The Fugitive has been used as temp music in the industry
• 1:35:18
  for years as a blueprint for directors in the genre.
• 1:35:21
  A wonderful full circle moment for him.
• 1:35:24
  Very nice. So solid work from James Newton
• 1:35:26
  Howard complimenting and sometimes elevating the
• 1:35:28
  material. Yeah.
• 1:35:32
  Finally, we're talking about a cinematographer who'd seen it
• 1:35:34
  all and worked with some of the very best on some of the very
• 1:35:37
  best. It is Michael Chapman.
• 1:35:40
  Away you go, Westie. I mean, Michael Chapman for me,
• 1:35:43
  one of my very favorite DOP's from the early work that he did.
• 1:35:46
  And I think he did a lot of work where he kind of disappeared
• 1:35:49
  into it and became just part of what we now know as kind of late
• 1:35:54
  80s nineties films. I mean, he did The Lost Boys and
• 1:35:58
  nobody talks about it. You know, he did Ghostbusters 2
• 1:36:01
  and that has a very similar look to this.
• 1:36:03
  It's far removed from his work he did on Rage and Bull and Taxi
• 1:36:07
  Driver, but I feel like Michael Chapman on this film was like, I
• 1:36:12
  don't know what I'm supposed to be inspired by.
• 1:36:14
  I don't quite know how to make this look any different than it
• 1:36:18
  just absolutely needs to. The bits that stand out to me,
• 1:36:21
  like I've already said, is this some Patrick's Day parade where
• 1:36:23
  it's all beautifully considered? And I think that was the point
• 1:36:26
  where nobody else knew what was going to happen.
• 1:36:29
  So Chapman took that on and said, I can do this bit because
• 1:36:32
  that to me is a cinematographer shooting that.
• 1:36:34
  That's not a director, that's a cinematographer frame.
• 1:36:36
  And that because the driver has got no see on what's happening,
• 1:36:39
  he has no idea what the contents going to be.
• 1:36:41
  And that's where Chapman shines in this film.
• 1:36:43
  All the other scenes, for me, he kind of just sits into the
• 1:36:46
  background. He was ticking the boxes and he
• 1:36:48
  does take the boxes because he knows what he's doing and it
• 1:36:50
  still looks great. Oh, looks amazing.
• 1:36:52
  But you don't go, wow, he really stands out.
• 1:36:55
  I think it's just quite generic in what Michael Chapman can do.
• 1:36:59
  And I don't think there's about that amount of time to consider
• 1:37:01
  that. So it needs to just be on the
• 1:37:03
  screen. Yeah, I mean, it's just such a
• 1:37:05
  weird career. I can't quite make sense for
• 1:37:08
  this. What he says, starting off like
• 1:37:10
  first film is the last detail. Working with Hal Ashby.
• 1:37:13
  I mean, that's pretty impressive for your first film.
• 1:37:15
  And then, as we've been saying, Scorsese is, he envisioned the
• 1:37:17
  body snatches, but then ends up doing the like of the Lost Boys,
• 1:37:21
  Kindergarten Cop. It's like inexplicable.
• 1:37:23
  And my feeling with this, it's like, he's been given this job
• 1:37:26
  and he's like, Oh yeah, I used to work on really great films
• 1:37:29
  because I'm actually really, really good at my job.
• 1:37:32
  And this does remind you there's reason he was so highly valued
• 1:37:35
  by the likes of Ashby and Scorsese, because I've talked
• 1:37:38
  about the editing given this film Pierce, But I think it's
• 1:37:41
  hand in hand with what Chapman does, which elevates his film so
• 1:37:44
  much location shooting to do, relying on that, but like to
• 1:37:47
  work in what looks like quite crappy weather conditions as
• 1:37:50
  well. Like not as this strikes me as
• 1:37:53
  being easy, but it gives so much attention to the same,
• 1:37:55
  particularly in the parade scene.
• 1:37:57
  So if this is Chapman's last gasp of greatness in terms of
• 1:38:01
  not necessarily his greatness, but the last great film he
• 1:38:04
  worked on, apologies to Space Jam fans if you're big fan of
• 1:38:08
  that. But what I think he's done, he's
• 1:38:11
  done a hell of a lot to really help out a very troubled
• 1:38:14
  production. And whether as Wes, he's being
• 1:38:17
  seen, whether that was 100% of what he could do or whether it's
• 1:38:20
  what he personally wanted to do, I don't know.
• 1:38:22
  But he's done a lot for this film.
• 1:38:25
  I do love his work here. I'd really think it elevates
• 1:38:28
  this genre. There's a nobody's shooting like
• 1:38:32
  an action thriller like this, No, This constant barrage of
• 1:38:35
  imagery, the track and shots of the city, the God shots looking
• 1:38:39
  down from above in Chicago. Then you've got those shots of
• 1:38:42
  Richard running through the woods.
• 1:38:44
  Incredible stuff. And I think what he does is draw
• 1:38:47
  you into the location, using the camera to put you inside Richard
• 1:38:51
  Kimball's experience. Those handheld sequences make
• 1:38:54
  you feel like you've gone through the darkness alongside
• 1:38:57
  them, and it gives you a sense of place, what would be like
• 1:39:00
  sleeping with leaves as a blanket.
• 1:39:02
  There's a remoteness to the first half of the film that
• 1:39:04
  mirrors Richard's situation, and there's an amazing shot where
• 1:39:08
  Richard walks into a tunnel and he gets completely enveloped by
• 1:39:11
  blackness. A beautiful frame and a really
• 1:39:15
  good visual metaphor for his circumstances.
• 1:39:17
  Yeah. Then the way that he contrasts
• 1:39:19
  those expensive wilderness shots with the claustrophobia of
• 1:39:22
  Chicago's urban sprawl creates this rhythm, this visual rhythm.
• 1:39:27
  It's metaphorical of Richard's journey from haunted animal to a
• 1:39:30
  determined man fighting for his life in the city.
• 1:39:32
  Yeah. If you get somebody like Chapman
• 1:39:34
  on board, you're relevating the film straight away from me.
• 1:39:37
  But it was not all plain sailing, as we would come to
• 1:39:41
  expect from of this film and this production.
• 1:39:44
  Yeah. Chapman was hired one week after
• 1:39:47
  filming had started. The original DP, who remains
• 1:39:50
  leameless, we will never know, was fired.
• 1:39:53
  Chapman wasn't blown away by the project and quoted 1 as a hugely
• 1:39:57
  inflated fee, not expecting them to pay up.
• 1:39:59
  But to his surprise, they did, and he was in there.
• 1:40:02
  Yeah, I mean, I guess they kind of had their backs to the wall,
• 1:40:04
  considering production had already started and the time
• 1:40:06
  scales and they needed an experience hand with the proven
• 1:40:09
  track record as well. Yeah.
• 1:40:11
  And he also didn't have the best of times on the shoot.
• 1:40:14
  He hated the cold conditions and really didn't get along with
• 1:40:17
  Andrew Davis. He's never gone into details,
• 1:40:19
  but just said it was a very bad mix.
• 1:40:21
  It just didn't work. And I used to say to them, look,
• 1:40:24
  I haven't cashed the checks. I'll give you the money back.
• 1:40:27
  Just let me out of here, please. I'm begging you.
• 1:40:29
  Wow. Yeah, that's how it feels to be
• 1:40:31
  watching some of it. Completely honest.
• 1:40:36
  So a talented crew on The Fugitive, the experience and
• 1:40:38
  professionalism of Newton Howard and Michael Chapman help elevate
• 1:40:41
  the material despite a few issues here and there,
• 1:40:45
  particularly in the screenplay. Yes.
• 1:40:54
  All right, movies, We'll be right back.
• 1:40:56
  Thank you for supporting us by listening to the sponsors for
• 1:40:58
  this episode, John. I've been listening to something
• 1:41:01
  I think you and our audience would really appreciate.
• 1:41:04
  Oh yeah, Film podcast is it. Not quite music, our second
• 1:41:08
  love. Next best thing?
• 1:41:10
  It's called Nakedly Examined Music.
• 1:41:12
  Mark Linson, Mere Horses. He sits down with songwriters
• 1:41:15
  and they completely breakdown three of their songs and you
• 1:41:18
  hear the full tracks on there as well.
• 1:41:20
  Well I mean that does sound pretty awesome.
• 1:41:21
  So a bit like a directors commentary but for music.
• 1:41:24
  Yeah, that's it. They go through every creative
• 1:41:27
  decision, why they chose that chord progression, how they
• 1:41:30
  built the arrangement, what inspired the lyrics.
• 1:41:32
  It's the kind of thing we do for films.
• 1:41:34
  For songwriting, well, we do love music as well, so I'm sure
• 1:41:37
  our listeners do. I mean, we're always talking
• 1:41:39
  about how important music is in films, aren't we?
• 1:41:42
  Yeah, always. And what I love is you see how
• 1:41:45
  these artists develop over time. It's like tracking a film makers
• 1:41:48
  career. You can actually hear their
• 1:41:50
  craft evolving from their early work to their latest stuff.
• 1:41:53
  Great, so have you discovered any new bands through it?
• 1:41:56
  Lords. But it's not just about new
• 1:41:57
  music either. They cover legendary artists as
• 1:42:00
  well. Few lots of relief because I'd
• 1:42:02
  try not to listen to anything past 1973 if I can help it of.
• 1:42:05
  Course you don't, but this does fill in those gaps.
• 1:42:08
  Honestly it's made me pick up on things I'm not sure I would have
• 1:42:10
  before. Yeah, I mean, that sounds really
• 1:42:12
  useful for what we do as well, by sounds of it.
• 1:42:14
  Yeah, then my thoughts exactly. And if you want to understand
• 1:42:17
  the craft of music the way we do with films, I think this is
• 1:42:21
  essential. All right, you saw me.
• 1:42:23
  It's on the list. I might even be prepared to go
• 1:42:26
  past 1973 if it's as good as you say.
• 1:42:29
  Well, it definitely is. So it's nakedly examined music
• 1:42:32
  available wherever you listen to podcasts or at their website,
• 1:42:35
  nakedlyexaminedmusic.com. Great.
• 1:42:38
  I'm going in. Thank you for listening to our
• 1:42:40
  sponsors. And now it's back to the show.
• 1:42:46
  The end. After Richard is evaded Gerard's
• 1:42:51
  grasp, he makes a beeline for the only man left on his list.
• 1:42:54
  He's got his sights on Frederick Sykes and breaks into his
• 1:42:58
  apartment where he finds a big piece to his puzzle.
• 1:43:00
  There's more flashback to the night of, confirming to the
• 1:43:03
  audience that obviously this is our guy and if we needed any
• 1:43:06
  more convincing, there's a prosthetic arm in the drawer.
• 1:43:09
  Very convenient, that. Just stick in the drawer.
• 1:43:15
  Yeah, just throw it in there, yeah.
• 1:43:16
  That'll do. And as I'm going to take a
• 1:43:18
  slight aside here, I just want to say that when I was in
• 1:43:22
  Chicago, my first journey was on the L train.
• 1:43:25
  I boarded the train, sat down and I kid you not, sat opposite
• 1:43:30
  me was A1 armed man. With a no.
• 1:43:32
  Static. Arm just like this with a hook,
• 1:43:35
  I thought. You were going to mention
• 1:43:36
  something about the sound being different?
• 1:43:37
  Yeah, but like there was like, that's even worse.
• 1:43:41
  Did you just get off immediately?
• 1:43:43
  It was terrifying. It's like this guy was an actor
• 1:43:46
  that was set up just for me. That is 100% true.
• 1:43:48
  I sat down in there. It was, Oh my God.
• 1:43:50
  And if you're a fan of Adventures in Babysitting, which
• 1:43:52
  is also set in Chicago, it is with a character who has a hook
• 1:43:56
  for an arm. Only in Chicago, I'm guessing.
• 1:44:00
  Wow, I know you did last summer. Did he?
• 1:44:03
  Did he not lunge straight at your wife?
• 1:44:08
  Yes, but back to this scene. Things are beginning to become a
• 1:44:11
  bit clearer to Richard, and I'm not going to pretend I know
• 1:44:14
  exactly what's happening here with Lance and Probasic and all
• 1:44:18
  of these guys. It's.
• 1:44:19
  Impossible. Nobody goes.
• 1:44:20
  Yeah. But what I do know is that phone
• 1:44:22
  call between Richard and Gerard is great.
• 1:44:24
  It's all the laughs at the office until Sam finds out this
• 1:44:27
  is really Kimball. He's trying to draw out the
• 1:44:29
  conversation to get a make on the location.
• 1:44:31
  But that's exactly what Richard wants.
• 1:44:33
  But he doesn't know. Yeah, I'm not trying to solve a
• 1:44:35
  puzzle here. I am trying to solve a puzzle.
• 1:44:37
  And I just found a big piece. Great dialogue, yeah.
• 1:44:40
  That's great. And you think he's going to slam
• 1:44:41
  the phone down and he puts on the desk?
• 1:44:43
  Yeah, I love that. Going back to what you were
• 1:44:45
  saying about the episodic nature of the film, yeah, that's where
• 1:44:48
  the end credit rules. That's great particular episode.
• 1:44:50
  Episode. 6. Yeah.
• 1:44:53
  Brilliant. Yeah, and Richard slams that
• 1:44:55
  phone down, leaving the trail of bread crumbs enough to clear his
• 1:44:58
  name by leading them directly to Frederick Sykes.
• 1:45:01
  Brilliant. Great narrative beat.
• 1:45:02
  Yeah. It's good.
• 1:45:03
  So straight from there we'll find out where he is.
• 1:45:06
  He's in sex apartment. Is it the one above or is it
• 1:45:08
  mine? It's yours, everyone knows my
• 1:45:10
  name. Real family group.
• 1:45:11
  Love that. Absolutely brilliant.
• 1:45:13
  But when Gerard's there and we're going through with the
• 1:45:16
  Steadicam, really reminds me of that scene in JFK Ferries death.
• 1:45:20
  Oh yes. Brilliant.
• 1:45:21
  It's just that kind of the same kind of look, and it's a really,
• 1:45:25
  really great frame. And when Sykes comes in,
• 1:45:28
  obviously he's got the prosthetic arm.
• 1:45:30
  I think it might be one that looks a bit too much like a
• 1:45:33
  prosthetic arm because he's got the other one in the drawer.
• 1:45:35
  She's like, this is obviously this.
• 1:45:36
  So I'm obviously being targeted by someone.
• 1:45:39
  So it's a bit of an alibi, I guess, what he's got and explain
• 1:45:43
  what it is. But that framing of Gerard and
• 1:45:45
  the team, when he sits down, he's just Gerard's in the
• 1:45:47
  middle. You got the guys all just kind
• 1:45:49
  of peppered around him. He just got, they actually got
• 1:45:51
  his back 100%. Who you're talking about just
• 1:45:54
  walks in with Kimball's picture. Doesn't say anything.
• 1:45:56
  All right. Yeah.
• 1:45:57
  He just knows he's got everybody under control.
• 1:45:59
  Brilliant. And it is really great reading
• 1:46:01
  from Gerard. He's like just wears them down
• 1:46:03
  just enough. And you wanted to see it just
• 1:46:05
  wearing them down just enough. And you know what it's
• 1:46:08
  reminiscent of me is no. It's when he kind of breaks.
• 1:46:10
  Currently goes. Well, that's a big fish.
• 1:46:12
  It's. Brilliant The.
• 1:46:12
  Scene in Cuckoo's Nest. Yeah, that's a big fish dog.
• 1:46:16
  Did you didn't wear the chain, did you dark?
• 1:46:19
  And he's kind of like just breaking character and trying to
• 1:46:21
  be something else. And it really reminds us of that
• 1:46:23
  because he just goes into a little bit more of a playful
• 1:46:25
  mood, and then you think he's not going to say anything that's
• 1:46:28
  going to piss him off even more, right?
• 1:46:30
  He's just left the room and says, how did you lose that?
• 1:46:36
  And this sums up the current. He's got a calm determination.
• 1:46:41
  He's determined, but he's so calm with it.
• 1:46:44
  And it's such a beautiful thing to watch somebody who's so
• 1:46:47
  determined to get around. But there's a real calm, cool
• 1:46:50
  demeanor at the same time. And then as The Walking out,
• 1:46:53
  he's just lets out that right, this guy's dirty, these guys.
• 1:46:59
  And he knows exactly the next move to make.
• 1:47:01
  You see that guy in exercise. I want everything about him.
• 1:47:04
  I want his parents on, his siblings on his pets.
• 1:47:06
  I want everything go. You won't do that.
• 1:47:08
  But at this point, he's thinking he's the bastard, not Kimball.
• 1:47:12
  I want everything on him now. And it's very, very subtle, but
• 1:47:16
  it's really well played by Lee Jones and everybody around him
• 1:47:18
  because I think everyone supports this.
• 1:47:20
  It's fantastic. Oh.
• 1:47:21
  It's amazing. I love the costume on Sam and
• 1:47:23
  his crew when they all walk out to Sykes as players.
• 1:47:25
  They all look stepped out of the 40s but.
• 1:47:27
  He's got like the dark Navy and they're all like, if they're
• 1:47:30
  like foot soldiers needs the Sergeant.
• 1:47:32
  Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, really, really brilliant.
• 1:47:34
  And Sykes here. Andreas Katsulas.
• 1:47:37
  Yeah. Now we're of a certain age.
• 1:47:39
  Yes, fellas, we're not I. Mean, yeah, I know what you're
• 1:47:41
  going to say, 45. 45. That's us.
• 1:47:47
  It is, for goodness sake. Yeah.
• 1:47:49
  I mean, that's, wow. I'll be quite frank.
• 1:47:51
  That's offensive. I would guess 6565.
• 1:47:56
  Actually, that's really unfair. And after this scene, I just
• 1:48:00
  want to flag up a moment where Richard goes to visit Bourne's,
• 1:48:03
  the records guy who gives him the liver samples.
• 1:48:05
  Yeah. Yeah, who never watches the
• 1:48:07
  news? Never watches the news says.
• 1:48:10
  Whatever happened to that thing with your wife?
• 1:48:12
  I mean, has he been living under a?
• 1:48:14
  Rocker, yeah. This is insane.
• 1:48:17
  Richard Kimble, the convicted death row murderer, has been
• 1:48:20
  splashed all over the news for months and months.
• 1:48:22
  And why would Chuck Nichols call ahead and tell him to give
• 1:48:25
  Richard whatever he needs as well?
• 1:48:27
  Because that happens in that scene.
• 1:48:28
  Yeah. He goes to see Chuck.
• 1:48:30
  He says I'm going to see Bones. Make sure he gives us what I
• 1:48:33
  need. Yeah.
• 1:48:33
  Crazy writing. Yeah.
• 1:48:35
  And then the Marshalls turn up and goes, I haven't seen Richard
• 1:48:37
  Kimble as if he's defending him for something.
• 1:48:39
  He could have just been like, yeah, the guy.
• 1:48:40
  What happened with his wife, by the way?
• 1:48:42
  He should be. Exactly why is he defended him?
• 1:48:45
  No idea that's such a confusion. Doesn't know what happened
• 1:48:48
  that's. Such a distorted character is
• 1:48:50
  he? And again, how much time has
• 1:48:52
  passed? Who knows?
• 1:48:54
  Whatever happened with that thing?
• 1:48:55
  Oh, that thing with your wife when she got bludgeoned today?
• 1:48:57
  Yeah. Yeah, that thing, you're over
• 1:48:59
  that now, bro. It's been a year, yeah.
• 1:49:01
  Yeah, yeah. Hitting up that doctor, the
• 1:49:03
  hospital, Yeah, yeah. Because that's that's in my
• 1:49:05
  version of the script. No duty unless I think.
• 1:49:15
  So then you get this scene on the train and I do really love
• 1:49:19
  that trope where someones in trouble with the law, the face
• 1:49:22
  is plastered all over the paper and then some innocent bystander
• 1:49:26
  is reading it and slowly clocks them.
• 1:49:29
  I mean seen it so many times but it always adds an extra level of
• 1:49:32
  jeopardy which I enjoy. And just having to fight on a
• 1:49:34
  train is classic Action Cinema. You know from wish with love,
• 1:49:38
  Spider man 2, Mission Impossible, dead reckoning.
• 1:49:40
  It's also a great location to have one on.
• 1:49:43
  Look in Chicago. Look in Chicago scrapping.
• 1:49:46
  This We're trying to protect his wife, obviously.
• 1:49:48
  Same. Same scenario.
• 1:49:49
  Exactly the same. Exactly.
• 1:49:50
  The same. But where is Sykes hiding on
• 1:49:53
  this train, though? He just looms up out of nowhere
• 1:49:56
  and he's a big guy. I don't think he could hide on
• 1:49:58
  there that well. And again, I think this scene,
• 1:50:01
  it shows up Davis's limitations a bit because yes, it's a
• 1:50:05
  confined space. You can't do that much in it.
• 1:50:07
  But it's not the most convention punch up I've ever seen in a
• 1:50:11
  film. A lot of them don't look like
• 1:50:13
  they connect properly. You know, the kind of editors
• 1:50:15
  all over the place. But what sells today is the
• 1:50:17
  performance from Ford. As always.
• 1:50:19
  You know that's null into his face.
• 1:50:21
  This is your stop. Like for just a minute.
• 1:50:23
  For just half a minute. You think I might kill him now
• 1:50:26
  for pure revenge? That's how far thought pushes
• 1:50:28
  above. He doesn't because Kimballs
• 1:50:30
  desperation to prove his innocence is obviously going to
• 1:50:33
  trump revenge at this point and he's off and running again.
• 1:50:36
  So not the most convincing set up and pay off I've seen in an
• 1:50:39
  action film, but it's not enough and it just keeps the film
• 1:50:41
  moving again. Yeah, I.
• 1:50:43
  Like that, it doesn't go on and on.
• 1:50:45
  Yeah, Sykes gets smashed in the face by the butt of a gun, and
• 1:50:48
  he's down. And that's realistic.
• 1:50:50
  I like that. Yeah.
• 1:50:51
  So Richard has snuffed out the immediate threat of Frederick
• 1:50:53
  Sykes, but there's a more treacherous matter he has to
• 1:50:56
  deal with. So Richard makes his way to the
• 1:51:00
  Hilton and tracks down his old buddy.
• 1:51:02
  He's finally unpicked the mystery and I'm going to start
• 1:51:06
  off when Richard crashes the convention to confront his old
• 1:51:09
  pal Chuck. Brilliant.
• 1:51:11
  Richard. I'm American.
• 1:51:14
  Honestly, I'm not. In the middle of this speech,
• 1:51:17
  I'm. Charlie.
• 1:51:21
  Now, there's a nice bit of dialogue and delivery by Crabbe
• 1:51:24
  here during this speech. He sees Richard, which throws
• 1:51:27
  them right off, which is great. And he's in the middle of seeing
• 1:51:31
  that Probasic has been created in conjunction with Chicago
• 1:51:33
  Memorial Hospital, which will continue the model of dishonest,
• 1:51:37
  excuse me, honest, open joint ventures, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:51:41
  A great bit of dialogue and circumstance there.
• 1:51:43
  I really, really like that. Yeah.
• 1:51:45
  You can see he's kind of recoiling as he sees Richard
• 1:51:47
  going to. I was going to explain this, but
• 1:51:50
  I can't really see it now with such passion.
• 1:51:51
  Yeah, it's great. And I like it when Nichols is
• 1:51:54
  laughing off Kimball's claims of him switching the samples as he
• 1:51:57
  ushers him out of the ballroom. He's kind of laughing his way
• 1:51:59
  back at the crowd. Listen, this is going to be
• 1:52:01
  fine. I'm just going to take care of
• 1:52:02
  this. Could be fine.
• 1:52:03
  But as I said at the top, the film is book ended by some not
• 1:52:07
  great writing, and it comes a little undone.
• 1:52:10
  And that's certainly the case here for me.
• 1:52:12
  I'm getting lost off. Yeah.
• 1:52:15
  Lance was bumped off. Charlie borrowed Richard's car.
• 1:52:19
  Richard opposed RDU 90. What the fuck is RDU 90?
• 1:52:22
  No clue because it was causing liver damage.
• 1:52:25
  You switched the you switched the samples when Lance died.
• 1:52:29
  What does all of this mean? I have.
• 1:52:31
  No idea. It's too complex, it's too
• 1:52:34
  confused right at the end. If it was drip fed to us
• 1:52:36
  throughout, I think maybe it would be easier to follow.
• 1:52:40
  And how does Gerard find all this information out in a very
• 1:52:42
  short space of time, largely off screen?
• 1:52:45
  Yeah. There's too much information
• 1:52:47
  being given right at the end. The wheels have come off, Yes,
• 1:52:50
  for me. Correct.
• 1:52:51
  But it's nothing that a good old dust up won't solve, Right
• 1:52:53
  Westie? Absolutely correct.
• 1:52:55
  I love that the fact the wheels are off because we've got
• 1:52:57
  nothing to steer here that can go anywhere.
• 1:53:00
  And it does. It kind of goes everywhere.
• 1:53:02
  The first thing I wrote down to me notes because I knew this was
• 1:53:05
  the scene that I was going to cover.
• 1:53:06
  I am pretty sure this is what 2 doctors fighting would look
• 1:53:09
  like. And it is.
• 1:53:14
  It's the chair over the back. It's bumbling around.
• 1:53:17
  Classic. It's the fury.
• 1:53:19
  Yeah, a big chair over the back. Love it.
• 1:53:20
  I love. That move.
• 1:53:21
  Yeah, this is what we're missing is what we've talked about
• 1:53:24
  recently is just the shoulders like they caught over the.
• 1:53:27
  Shoulders of the shoulders the. Big punch of the face.
• 1:53:30
  Everything else just seems like it is just right.
• 1:53:33
  Let's play this out. We've got one more action
• 1:53:35
  sequence and everything is now kind of making sense.
• 1:53:38
  Yes, It's your best friend, right?
• 1:53:39
  Let's see how long we can play this out.
• 1:53:41
  I've seen Die Hard. Yep.
• 1:53:42
  Get them on the roof. I've got a helicopter.
• 1:53:45
  Yep. That's got a light in there.
• 1:53:47
  Chapman's like, yes, just make sure you spotlight them and fuck
• 1:53:50
  sake, just put them on the roof. All right, whatever.
• 1:53:52
  Yeah. So we're going to go through a
• 1:53:53
  skylight. Yes, Of course.
• 1:53:54
  The. Is he going to land on the lift
• 1:53:56
  and the other one lands on the bottom?
• 1:53:57
  Yes. OK, let's just.
• 1:53:58
  And everything feels like a cliche upon a cliche here for an
• 1:54:01
  action sequence at the end of the film.
• 1:54:04
  But it's it's fun to watch. It's really great to watch them
• 1:54:07
  go back and forth at each other and you just think they're both
• 1:54:10
  kind of crap. But.
• 1:54:12
  Kimball's got more to prove here.
• 1:54:13
  You want to see him kind of go for it.
• 1:54:15
  And it's not until they get to the laundry where things start
• 1:54:19
  to get really tense. But for me, this whole fight
• 1:54:21
  sequence and the whole end sequence, even to that point
• 1:54:24
  where he just knocks the gun out, it just feels that, you
• 1:54:26
  know, when you're trying to tie a balloon and get that knot in
• 1:54:29
  just before the air comes out. If that's how I feel the end of
• 1:54:33
  the Fugitive is, this fight is like just trying to tie the.
• 1:54:35
  Balloon, keep it together. Air in it, please.
• 1:54:38
  Just. Back right, We've got the knot.
• 1:54:39
  OK, that's fine. It's great, really enjoyable.
• 1:54:42
  Lovely way to wrap things up, but very predictable.
• 1:54:44
  Yeah, I like that shot. When they fall through the
• 1:54:46
  skylight under the elevator, Richard lands on the top and
• 1:54:49
  Nichols lands inside. I.
• 1:54:51
  Love it when Nichols gets kicked down the stairs.
• 1:54:53
  There's no way you're coming back from that.
• 1:54:54
  No, you're not. You're going to have a
• 1:54:56
  concussion or something, at least take advantage.
• 1:55:00
  Chase him down and stand on his head or something.
• 1:55:01
  Just take advantage. But no, everything needs to be
• 1:55:04
  done morally and it's fine. And there were only a few weeks
• 1:55:07
  left to film, and they still didn't have an ending, if you
• 1:55:09
  couldn't tell by now. So Davis ensued with The Four
• 1:55:13
  Seasons in Chicago looking out into the city.
• 1:55:15
  And Stewart came up with the idea of a fist fight between
• 1:55:18
  Kimball and Nichols, which ended with Nichols falling through
• 1:55:20
  skylight. And this was then beat in the
• 1:55:22
  shape to get the end. And that we have.
• 1:55:24
  Yeah, I mean, that is not surprising at all.
• 1:55:27
  I agree with you, Wesley. I'm kind of not that bothered
• 1:55:30
  about this fight, no. It's from the point where Gerard
• 1:55:34
  makes his presence known. It's.
• 1:55:37
  The laundry where it where it starts.
• 1:55:39
  To work, yeah. Yeah, because that bit when
• 1:55:41
  Gerard shouts out that he knows Richard's innocent, it's so well
• 1:55:44
  played by Jones because he's kept his claws so close to his
• 1:55:48
  chest that I don't even know up until this scene that he does
• 1:55:51
  think that because he's been so dogged and the pursuit has been
• 1:55:54
  so relentless. We think that's his entire focus
• 1:55:58
  because, as he said earlier, he doesn't care.
• 1:56:00
  Do you think he's not going to care if Richard innocent or not?
• 1:56:03
  But This is why it's good to rewatch because you do sort of
• 1:56:05
  see earlier in the film, like that team with Julianne Mott,
• 1:56:08
  the little flickers of doubt on his face.
• 1:56:11
  Yeah, if this guy's a killer wise.
• 1:56:12
  He saved the lives for two of the people, went on the run when
• 1:56:15
  he didn't need to. Yeah, because.
• 1:56:17
  You can see Gerard has been juggling these two separate,
• 1:56:20
  like, trains of thought at the same time of this job of finding
• 1:56:23
  Richard, but also putting it together on his own.
• 1:56:25
  And it's more effective because you don't get that cliched scene
• 1:56:28
  where he would spill all his doubts to cost more or to the
• 1:56:31
  rest of the team. You know, like, oh, you know
• 1:56:33
  what? Maybe maybe we've got the wrong
• 1:56:35
  guy. You don't get that.
• 1:56:36
  Nah. Never happened.
• 1:56:37
  No. So like, what you get, though,
• 1:56:39
  is that great reaction shot from Richard when Gerard shouts out,
• 1:56:43
  I know you're innocent. His reaction is magnificent
• 1:56:46
  because it's awful. Oh, you do know?
• 1:56:48
  And it's such a sense of relief. Yeah.
• 1:56:50
  He is. I'd go back to what you said,
• 1:56:52
  Luke. It's it's very convenient that
• 1:56:54
  all of a sudden he's spouting all this evidence so we've not
• 1:56:56
  been Privy to. And when did you find all this
• 1:56:58
  out? That would be massively like
• 1:57:00
  convenient if we could have been on that.
• 1:57:02
  Thanks. Yeah.
• 1:57:03
  Thanks very much, Andrew. Yeah, but I don't know would
• 1:57:05
  have killed the momentum would have killed the surprise of this
• 1:57:07
  scene. Maybe, but it is perfect how it
• 1:57:09
  goes from I didn't kill my wife, I don't care to they killed my
• 1:57:14
  wife and what Richard I know it it book ends that beautifully
• 1:57:18
  and what it looks like is it doesn't overstay it's welcome
• 1:57:21
  either. Once it wraps up like a much
• 1:57:23
  more cliched version of this, you fade to black and then you
• 1:57:26
  get a title card fade in six months later and Richard and
• 1:57:30
  Gerard are at a bar in the watching the news coverage of
• 1:57:33
  Nichols being sent to the chair. Whatever.
• 1:57:35
  Brilliant. They're just getting in the car.
• 1:57:37
  I thought you didn't care. I taunt, but don't tell anybody
• 1:57:40
  you're OK. And then off you go.
• 1:57:42
  That's all you need. Lovely.
• 1:57:43
  It's a nice ended, yeah. And during this ending, Cosmo
• 1:57:46
  takes a one in the face. A brutal blow.
• 1:57:49
  Oh, just. A big one, yeah.
• 1:57:50
  Joe Pantliano went to great lengths to make his presence
• 1:57:52
  known on screen throughout the shoot.
• 1:57:55
  Gerard's team didn't originally have a large part, but Pantliano
• 1:57:59
  stuck to Lee Jones like glue, improvising lines to go into the
• 1:58:02
  scenes. So he was then stunned when a
• 1:58:05
  late revision if the script killed his character.
• 1:58:07
  Off he went flying into David's office and in his own words he
• 1:58:10
  said, Andy, what the fuck? You can't kill me.
• 1:58:13
  And Davis replied, well, why? I said, well, what if there's a
• 1:58:16
  sequel? And he says, all right, we won't
• 1:58:18
  kill you. We won't kill you.
• 1:58:21
  That's all you need. OK, fine.
• 1:58:23
  Not necessarily taking them at his word.
• 1:58:25
  Apparently Arnold did a little bit of improv himself.
• 1:58:28
  After he was hit by the beam he started to make these groans and
• 1:58:31
  noises on the ground forward up, shaking his head saying you
• 1:58:35
  should be dead. So finally I said, well, what if
• 1:58:39
  there's a sequel? Harrison and Ford said there
• 1:58:42
  won't be a sequel because I won't be in it.
• 1:58:47
  Finally I replied, well fuck you, who needs you?
• 1:58:49
  We'll just chase another $20 million asshole through the
• 1:58:52
  woods. Amazing and he said.
• 1:58:55
  That what was on the floor laughing.
• 1:58:56
  Brilliant. Amazing.
• 1:58:57
  Love that. So a very fitting and emotional
• 1:59:00
  end of the film. Gerard finally has his man, but
• 1:59:03
  he's not in cuffs. No, no reception and awards.
• 1:59:11
  Not much was expected from The Fugitive, especially considering
• 1:59:14
  the chaotic nature of the shoot in the very small window for the
• 1:59:17
  production. When Andrew Davis showed
• 1:59:18
  Harrison Ford the film for the first time, Ford was full of
• 1:59:21
  nerves. But when it got to the
• 1:59:22
  interrogation scene, he saw that the audience would be invested
• 1:59:25
  in his character, and he reached over and gave Davis a kiss.
• 1:59:29
  Very nice. Nice guy how?
• 1:59:30
  Long is that from watching it and being nervous to the
• 1:59:33
  interrogation scene. 7 minutes, yeah.
• 1:59:40
  Very confident man, obviously he.
• 1:59:42
  Didn't like the opening credits, is that what we're saying?
• 1:59:45
  And Davis said that Warner saw the same cut that House and Four
• 1:59:48
  did and said don't touch a thing.
• 1:59:50
  We love it. But Davis said that he would
• 1:59:51
  then make 1800 changes after that.
• 1:59:54
  But Ford was so happy and relieved that he called Jeb,
• 1:59:56
  Student said. I think we're going to work
• 1:59:58
  again. It's unbelievable, the fear that
• 2:00:00
  everybody had about this film. Understandable to a certain
• 2:00:04
  degree, yeah. So the three hour cut was
• 2:00:06
  trimmed down to 130 minutes by 6 editors and the film was
• 2:00:10
  released on the 29th of July 1993, six months after filming
• 2:00:14
  started. I mean, that's.
• 2:00:16
  Insane madness. Madness.
• 2:00:19
  Word of mouth began to build after a very strong response
• 2:00:22
  from critics. Yeah, Empire gave her four to
• 2:00:24
  five and said finally is the Earth slip slowly away?
• 2:00:27
  A Hollywood thriller worth queuing to see.
• 2:00:29
  Crammed with high speed action, lip chewing set pieces and crisp
• 2:00:32
  dialogue and character. Driven by two big time
• 2:00:34
  performances from House and Ford and Tommy Lee Jones, The
• 2:00:37
  Fugitive is far and away the most exciting adventure thriller
• 2:00:40
  of the. Very nice, big props.
• 2:00:43
  The Washington Post said that the Fugitive was a juggernaut of
• 2:00:46
  exaggeration, momentum and thrills.
• 2:00:48
  It is pure energy, a perfect orchestration of heroism,
• 2:00:52
  villainy, suspense and Comic Relief.
• 2:00:54
  Wow, Rodgery. But then the man on the scene,
• 2:00:57
  the main man, what did he give it out of four?
• 2:00:59
  Big Rog 3. Three.
• 2:01:01
  Yeah, three. Well, he gave it a glowing 4 out
• 2:01:05
  of four. Really.
• 2:01:07
  Out of. 4 OK. He said The Fugitive has the
• 2:01:10
  standards of an earlier, more classic time when acting,
• 2:01:13
  character and dialogue were meant to stand on their own and
• 2:01:16
  where characters continue to change and develop right up to
• 2:01:18
  the Last Rim. Here is one of the year's best
• 2:01:21
  films. Probably it is one of the year's
• 2:01:23
  best films. But all of that before, Yeah,
• 2:01:26
  come on. Roger Fair.
• 2:01:27
  Enough, Yeah. Nothing about the plot holes.
• 2:01:31
  Nothing. Nothing.
• 2:01:32
  Straight in there, loved it. So positive response, something
• 2:01:35
  that is mirrored today with 96% on Rotten Tomatoes 96. 96.
• 2:01:40
  And 7.8 out of 10 on IMDb big scores.
• 2:01:44
  Big, big yeah. And.
• 2:01:45
  Despite all the odds, The Fugitive became a massive box
• 2:01:48
  office hit. It held the record at the time
• 2:01:50
  for an August opening weekend and on a budget of $44 million,
• 2:01:54
  it returned 368,000,000 worldwide become the third
• 2:01:58
  highest grossing film of the year behind Jurassic Park and
• 2:02:00
  Mrs. Doubtfire. Wow yeah, would not have guessed
• 2:02:04
  that was #2. No, I wouldn't have either.
• 2:02:07
  Maybe even more surprisingly, the Fugitive was successful on
• 2:02:10
  the award circuit, despite the general consensus of the cast.
• 2:02:13
  Yeah. Yeah, and John Pant Leonor
• 2:02:15
  recalled a time when production moved to Chicago.
• 2:02:18
  Tommy Lee Jones said. We're going to eat a lot of
• 2:02:21
  Chinese food, a lot of Italian food.
• 2:02:24
  We're going to have some fun, he told And Liano.
• 2:02:26
  We don't have to worry about this script because let's face
• 2:02:28
  it, no one's going to win an Academy Award in this one.
• 2:02:31
  Wow. Wonderful.
• 2:02:33
  That is a great story. That is wonderful stuff.
• 2:02:36
  Ironically, naturally, the film went on to get 7 Academy Award
• 2:02:40
  nominations. Best Pitcher, Best Supporting
• 2:02:43
  Actor. Tommy Lee Jones.
• 2:02:44
  Yeah. He did it.
• 2:02:48
  He did everyone. You know what I mean?
• 2:02:51
  You know what I mean? He did it.
• 2:02:54
  Best cinematography, best editing, best score, best sound
• 2:02:57
  and best sound effects editing, with Tommy Lee Jones picking up
• 2:03:00
  the award for best supporting actor.
• 2:03:01
  Now there, the irony is so thick.
• 2:03:04
  It's beautiful. It's.
• 2:03:05
  Insane. As we mentioned at the top, he
• 2:03:08
  beat a particularly strong feel. Remarkable considering he was up
• 2:03:11
  against riff finds in Schindler's List.
• 2:03:14
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:03:15
  Which is an incredible performance.
• 2:03:17
  It really is, yeah. And he is an outrageous quote
• 2:03:20
  from Andrew Davis. He said we got killed by
• 2:03:23
  Schindler's List, You can't fight the Jews, and I'm one of
• 2:03:25
  them. But I didn't get nominated for
• 2:03:27
  best director, which was very hurtful.
• 2:03:29
  And Harrison didn't get nominated for best actor, which
• 2:03:32
  was unfair. But the sweetest thing happened.
• 2:03:34
  Robert Altman was nominated for Shortcuts, which wasn't very
• 2:03:37
  good, he wrote in the trades. The only reason they've given me
• 2:03:40
  this nomination is because I'm an old man.
• 2:03:42
  Andy Davis should have gotten the nomination.
• 2:03:44
  Gave with one hand, take with the other.
• 2:03:46
  Andy Wow. Wow, I mean, some boys, isn't
• 2:03:49
  he? Yes, indeed, and the Fugitive
• 2:03:51
  was released in China a year after pretty much the rest of
• 2:03:54
  the world saw it in 94 It was the first American film released
• 2:03:57
  in China in almost a decade, after the Chinese government put
• 2:04:00
  restrictions on foreign films after the release of First Blood
• 2:04:02
  in 1985. Right.
• 2:04:04
  So, breaking down boundaries all over the place, the fugitive
• 2:04:07
  managed the triple threat of of critical, commercial and award
• 2:04:10
  success, something which would have been unthinkable in
• 2:04:14
  probably mid 1993. I would imagine, yeah, I would
• 2:04:18
  have thought so. Sequels and influence.
• 2:04:26
  The success of the fugitive could not be ignored for long at
• 2:04:28
  all. The IP was mined in a few
• 2:04:30
  different ways. Yeah, it was re adapted into
• 2:04:33
  another TV version in 2000 and that starred Michael T
• 2:04:36
  Williamson, Connie Britton and Stephen Lang.
• 2:04:39
  A law It only ran for one season.
• 2:04:40
  It was then put through the grinder again and came out in
• 2:04:43
  2020 in a version song Kiefer Sutherland and there were 14
• 2:04:46
  episodes. But in a break from tradition,
• 2:04:48
  they only averaged round 8 minutes per episode. 8 minutes.
• 2:04:52
  8 minutes per episode. Wow.
• 2:04:54
  OK, which? Amounted to probably a 90 minute
• 2:04:57
  film. Yeah.
• 2:04:58
  Disappeared without a trace, that one.
• 2:05:00
  Not surprised. It wasn't long ago then the
• 2:05:02
  Leslie Nielsen star, a Wrongfully Accused from 1988,
• 2:05:05
  was based on The Fugitive I. Remember that?
• 2:05:07
  Yeah, being. From the late 90s and starring
• 2:05:10
  Nielsen, I think you can guess what kind of film it was.
• 2:05:13
  Fantastic is what it was. His character name in that film
• 2:05:17
  is Ryan Harrison. Do you remain anything?
• 2:05:27
  For the money at that point for Leslie Nielsen, yeah.
• 2:05:30
  It has also been adapted overseas as well.
• 2:05:32
  There have been two remakes that came out of Bollywood and
• 2:05:37
  two-part miniseries from Japan in 2020.
• 2:05:40
  I mean. We can't overlook the original
• 2:05:41
  TV source material, of course, but surely the main source of
• 2:05:45
  inspiration for those remakes have got to go down to the
• 2:05:48
  success of this film, I think. So yeah, absolutely they're.
• 2:05:51
  Not remaking the 60s TV show. No.
• 2:05:54
  They're not, Not at all. And that isn't the only thing
• 2:05:56
  that came as a result of the fugitive success.
• 2:05:59
  Joe Pantoliano was bang on the money.
• 2:06:01
  Ford didn't come back for the sequel US Marshals, but they did
• 2:06:04
  bring in not one, but two $20 million assholes to cheers
• 2:06:07
  through the woods. Those guys were Wesley Snipes
• 2:06:10
  and Robert Downey Junior, huge names with big shoes to fill.
• 2:06:13
  Written by John Paul, directed by Stuart Baird.
• 2:06:16
  How did they do? Have you seen the sequel Westie
• 2:06:19
  A? Long time ago I remember being
• 2:06:21
  so disappointed by it and for being so detached from the tone
• 2:06:26
  that I didn't really understand what it was trying to say and I
• 2:06:29
  thought if I watched it again I would just be more frustrated.
• 2:06:32
  Then I remember not liking it at all and yes, thinking that it
• 2:06:36
  missed a lot that I wanted it to hit.
• 2:06:40
  Similar, I went to see it at the cinema when it was released and
• 2:06:42
  I remember being really disappointed by it, so much so
• 2:06:46
  that I hadn't seen it until last week.
• 2:06:48
  Right. I wasn't holding out too much
• 2:06:50
  hope, which was quickly confirmed with the dynamics of
• 2:06:53
  Gerard and his team. They've been clearly amped up in
• 2:06:56
  this bar scene near the start and had taken on more of a
• 2:06:59
  comedic edge, which I just wasn't wild about it, right.
• 2:07:02
  And considering the writing on The Fugitive, and, you know,
• 2:07:05
  we've spoken length about that, it's like Keats compared to US
• 2:07:09
  monitors. There are some shameless
• 2:07:16
  callbacks to the original the outhouse speech, the siege on
• 2:07:19
  Copeland's house, the bus train crash.
• 2:07:21
  They're all here in a slightly different form.
• 2:07:24
  Right, OK. But the plane crash is
• 2:07:28
  impressive. It's an impressive sustained set
• 2:07:30
  piece. I did like it.
• 2:07:32
  The film was nowhere near as bad as I remembered once I got over
• 2:07:35
  that bumpy ride of the 1st 10 minutes.
• 2:07:37
  Yeah, I think Snipes is always good value.
• 2:07:39
  Downey Junior isn't at his best, but TLG still gives a good
• 2:07:44
  account of himself. Not a bad film, not a great
• 2:07:47
  film. Okay, okay.
• 2:07:49
  I'm not convinced to go back to it from that to be honest.
• 2:07:52
  No, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't bother.
• 2:07:53
  Fair enough. Put it out on the poster, ATRM.
• 2:07:56
  I wouldn't bother. So that leads us to our final
• 2:08:00
  period question from Philip Beatty.
• 2:08:02
  Hello, Philip. Hello Philip, He said.
• 2:08:04
  I thought US Marshals was a decent spin off slash sequel to
• 2:08:07
  this. He said even though we're
• 2:08:08
  cheering for Kimball in The Fugitive and Gerard is seen as
• 2:08:11
  an antagonist at the start, the whole team had dropped into US
• 2:08:14
  Marshals as fully formed characters that we already know
• 2:08:16
  and like. Are there any of the side
• 2:08:18
  characters or groups that you'd like to see gain in another
• 2:08:21
  movie? Matt, over to you.
• 2:08:23
  It wouldn't be sequel because they all got killed, but a
• 2:08:26
  prequel C in the Siloco crew from Aliens would be a lot of
• 2:08:29
  fun I think. Brilliant saying that for your
• 2:08:32
  missions together. I think in a similar vein would
• 2:08:35
  have been good to see the squad from Dog Soldiers again if
• 2:08:37
  they're not being killed at the end.
• 2:08:39
  But great previous one somehow, but one where they pretty much
• 2:08:42
  do all survive at the end. So we could have had a sequel.
• 2:08:45
  And I would really like to see all these guys return.
• 2:08:47
  Kelly's Heroes. Eastwood.
• 2:08:49
  Nice. Yeah.
• 2:08:50
  Savalis Sutherland, Don Rickles. Amazing cast.
• 2:08:54
  Brickles brilliant. Yeah, I think great point.
• 2:08:57
  And quite a rare thing in cinema to get characters like this that
• 2:09:01
  dropped into another film and don't bring the lead actor along
• 2:09:05
  with them. I think the side characters that
• 2:09:07
  I'd like to see again, Rosewood and tag it from Beverly Hills
• 2:09:10
  Cop, right? Nice.
• 2:09:12
  Very good. We've talked about this a few
• 2:09:14
  times in the past. I'd love to see what happened at
• 2:09:16
  LV426 before Ripley and the Marines show their face.
• 2:09:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:09:20
  Love to see that carnage. I imagine.
• 2:09:22
  Yeah. And I would love to see a
• 2:09:24
  prequel to Die Hard chart and Mclean's rise in the NYPD.
• 2:09:27
  I hear you're asking. I wouldn't have thought so.
• 2:09:30
  I want to see Harry Ellis high as a kite making billion dollar
• 2:09:33
  deals from that guitar. Oh, that's.
• 2:09:35
  Better, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:09:37
  Buy the Rolex, Yeah. That's where it.
• 2:09:39
  Finishes it's buying the Rolex, it's a.
• 2:09:40
  Rolex. It's a Rolex.
• 2:09:42
  Well, hands and a screw actually pulling some heists off and
• 2:09:44
  getting away with it. Yeah, that would be great, yeah.
• 2:09:46
  That would be great. What about you, Westie?
• 2:09:48
  I would love to see the group from Predator Dutchess group.
• 2:09:51
  I'd love to see them meeting, where they met, how they all
• 2:09:54
  become. So they're all really tight.
• 2:09:57
  They all know each other inside out.
• 2:09:58
  So I'd like to see them all together.
• 2:10:00
  But I'd also like to see why he's pushing so many pencils.
• 2:10:04
  What happened there? Why is Dylan not involved?
• 2:10:08
  What happened? I want to say that Dylan.
• 2:10:10
  You son of a bitch. Why?
• 2:10:11
  By the distance? So yeah, go for Predator, drop
• 2:10:14
  them in anything. But yeah, an early version of
• 2:10:16
  that would be great. Brilliant.
• 2:10:18
  Yeah. Love it.
• 2:10:18
  Great. Well, thank you very much for
• 2:10:20
  the question, Philip. That's our last one of the day.
• 2:10:23
  Thank you, Phil. A great one.
• 2:10:24
  Thanks everybody for your questions.
• 2:10:26
  Keep them coming. Thank you.
• 2:10:27
  And finally, in the years since its release, where have you seen
• 2:10:30
  the fugitive influence? What do you think it's legacy
• 2:10:33
  is, Westie, you got to take on that I.
• 2:10:35
  Mean every other film of the 90s, really.
• 2:10:38
  I mean, especially Ford's career.
• 2:10:40
  I think clear and present danger, everything that come
• 2:10:42
  after that. Air Force One Air Force.
• 2:10:44
  One, yeah. A lot of that where the main
• 2:10:47
  hero. I think that that was the whole
• 2:10:49
  point of the 90s where you have this really masculine character
• 2:10:52
  in the middle in the 80s becomes a little bit more fragile,
• 2:10:57
  vulnerable and really vulnerable.
• 2:10:59
  Yeah. And I think Ford really plays
• 2:11:01
  that role and takes it on and runs with it throughout your
• 2:11:04
  whole career. And I think that happens to a
• 2:11:06
  lot of different people. Through that point.
• 2:11:07
  It set a precedent, I think, from the lead male actor in that
• 2:11:12
  you can step down and you can be vulnerable.
• 2:11:14
  And that's the main thing I get from this film.
• 2:11:16
  Yeah, it's a shift in cultures from the 80s to the 90s, I
• 2:11:19
  think. Oh.
• 2:11:20
  Absolutely. You go from Rambo to Air Force
• 2:11:22
  One now. It's huge.
• 2:11:23
  Matt, what about you? Fugitives, Influence and legacy,
• 2:11:27
  What do you got? Well, I think Tommy D Jones
• 2:11:29
  seemed to have this run of films where he was always tracking
• 2:11:32
  someone down. He had The Hunted with Del Toro
• 2:11:35
  The Missing. Jeopardy.
• 2:11:37
  Double Jeopardy, the missing Cate Blanchett, I mean even No
• 2:11:40
  Country for Men fits into that really.
• 2:11:43
  He's tracking someone down that as well, so the.
• 2:11:45
  Valley of Ella as well, yeah. Yeah, as well, Yeah.
• 2:11:47
  So that feels like what it influences to me.
• 2:11:50
  Obviously, this is a Harrison Ford film in that sense.
• 2:11:53
  It was a massive hit for him. But this is the one that
• 2:11:56
  established Jones as a star in his own right, I think.
• 2:11:58
  And then Legacy goes back to I said about, you know, there was
• 2:12:01
  so many TV shows being rebated, films, this one, somehow, I'm
• 2:12:05
  not sure how, but this is still the gold standard of how you do
• 2:12:08
  it. Yeah, yes.
• 2:12:10
  Somehow. That's quite remarkable.
• 2:12:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:12:13
  I mean, they don't think it broke new ground.
• 2:12:15
  It's a well worn genre, you know, innocent man on the run,
• 2:12:18
  goodies versus baddies. Different spin on that, I
• 2:12:21
  suppose. But I think films like Enemy of
• 2:12:23
  the States, Minority Report, Bourne Identity have their roots
• 2:12:26
  in The Fugitive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:12:28
  Good point. Taught intelligent conspiracy
• 2:12:30
  thrillers. The cat and mouse narrative of
• 2:12:32
  this film I think can be seen in Heat.
• 2:12:36
  Not saying that they're identical, but I think they've
• 2:12:38
  got elements of it. Even something that you
• 2:12:40
  mentioned, Matt, like no Country for all men and mirrors, The
• 2:12:44
  Fugitive in a certain way does. Yeah.
• 2:12:46
  And I think, yeah, absolutely. Tommy Lee Jones, this is where
• 2:12:50
  his career started. And he'd already been in films
• 2:12:53
  for, what, 20 years or something?
• 2:12:55
  He's in the coal miner's daughter for goodness.
• 2:12:58
  But this is where he became a bonafide star, quite rightly as
• 2:13:01
  well. Yeah.
• 2:13:02
  So a lot came after it in more ways than one.
• 2:13:05
  And A Lloyd wasn't a wholly original story, the future to
• 2:13:08
  breathe new life into a familiar genre and is still highly
• 2:13:11
  thought of to this day. All the right movies ranking.
• 2:13:19
  We found that man. Now it's time for us to
• 2:13:22
  summarize and give our score out of 10 on The Fugitive.
• 2:13:25
  And Westie, it is over to you. Like I said, my opinion of this
• 2:13:30
  has changed even over the last few years.
• 2:13:32
  It's a great film, it's very enjoyable, but I think it's one
• 2:13:36
  that my kids will suss out fairly quickly and one that we
• 2:13:40
  weren't ready for in 93 because I think there's so much now.
• 2:13:45
  There's so much on television where they need to figure it out
• 2:13:48
  in an hour and this will just be so slow paced and so old
• 2:13:52
  fashioned now. I think narratively and quite
• 2:13:55
  messy narratively in that it didn't quite know where it was
• 2:13:57
  going at the time. It really nailed it.
• 2:14:00
  It really was necessary and it was fantastic from an action
• 2:14:04
  point of view, from a narrative point of view.
• 2:14:06
  Especially Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford, I think put in
• 2:14:09
  two of the best performances of their careers, if I'm honest,
• 2:14:13
  and really turn people's heads and make them think that, oh,
• 2:14:16
  this is a completely different film and they really elevate it.
• 2:14:19
  If they weren't in this film, we wouldn't be talking about it.
• 2:14:21
  That was Shadow that would have been made.
• 2:14:24
  No, it really, really wouldn't have been.
• 2:14:26
  And there's a lot of factors that actually make this work.
• 2:14:28
  And it feels like watching this film, is that a game of Kaplunk?
• 2:14:32
  Like if one person happens to move out of it, the whole thing
• 2:14:35
  falls down. So it's a miracle that it works.
• 2:14:38
  It's a miracle that it exists. It's a lot of fun to watch.
• 2:14:41
  It's by no means perfect, It's by no means a film.
• 2:14:45
  After I've watched you 3 times this week, I'm not going to go
• 2:14:47
  back with any time soon. So it's not going anywhere near
• 2:14:51
  the top. So it's going to be an 8.5 for
• 2:14:52
  me. 8.5 That's still a damn good score.
• 2:14:56
  Yeah. And what about you, Matt?
• 2:14:58
  Yeah, I mean, I think in a lot of ways it's actually quite
• 2:15:00
  remarkable how well the film holds up, really.
• 2:15:02
  And I think it does because it's so simple and there's nothing in
• 2:15:06
  here that has really dated that much.
• 2:15:08
  I mean, maybe the back projection for the train crash
• 2:15:11
  and that's it. The rest of it, it whips along,
• 2:15:14
  great location shooting. It's constantly intriguing.
• 2:15:17
  And it is powered by those performances from Ford and
• 2:15:19
  drones. But I'm still just not sure how
• 2:15:22
  much credit can I give Davis for all this work.
• 2:15:24
  And because the big set piece isn't actually that impressively
• 2:15:27
  pulled off, I don't think the fights are convincing.
• 2:15:29
  And I do start to tear out a little bit once we get to the
• 2:15:33
  hotel. And it was his best friend all
• 2:15:35
  along. And this to do with the medical
• 2:15:37
  conspiracy about some drugs that I don't know I care about and
• 2:15:40
  they have to showdown in front of everyone, which we've seen
• 2:15:42
  100 times. It starts to get a bit cliched.
• 2:15:44
  And I think I would echo Wesley's point here that the
• 2:15:47
  performances from Ford and Jones, the fallen of that
• 2:15:49
  category of are they that good that they're covering up a lot
• 2:15:53
  of the film's flaws? And if you had not even both of
• 2:15:56
  them, even one of them cast as some if that was Alec Baldwin.
• 2:15:59
  I like Baldwin, but how much of this film would work if I was
• 2:16:03
  Baldwin in there instead of don't think any of it would
• 2:16:06
  really would it? So ultimately very enjoyable
• 2:16:08
  film. I would recommend it to people
• 2:16:10
  if the some I haven't seen it, but it's not a personal
• 2:16:12
  favorite. It's certainly not without
• 2:16:14
  flaws. So I'm also giving it an 8.5.
• 2:16:17
  OK, right. Again, a good school.
• 2:16:18
  Considering your comments. You know I've loved this film
• 2:16:21
  for 30 years. I've got a huge affection for
• 2:16:24
  it. It's got such rewatch ability
• 2:16:26
  because of the performances and the huge cinematic moments that
• 2:16:29
  we've talked about. Those performances, I echo
• 2:16:32
  everything that you said. They're not there.
• 2:16:34
  Neither is the film. I don't think these kind of
• 2:16:37
  films come around that often, even less so with the way cinema
• 2:16:40
  is at the moment. All right, granddad, of course,
• 2:16:45
  but this kind of mid budget film with a top movie star is a thing
• 2:16:48
  of the past. It's a relic and that is a
• 2:16:51
  shame, making The Fugitive all that more special.
• 2:16:53
  I've noted the issues I have with the film and there's some
• 2:16:56
  Biggins. Really, this is a film that
• 2:16:58
  should not exist in the way that it does, or at all, but the two
• 2:17:02
  lead performances are some of the best to come out of the
• 2:17:03
  decade. Michael Chapman, I really like
• 2:17:06
  his work here despite them not having a great time and not
• 2:17:09
  being at his rage and bull levels.
• 2:17:12
  Exactly. Yeah, and I'm going to see it.
• 2:17:14
  Andy Davis, unlike what you've said, Matt, I think he should
• 2:17:17
  have had a better career on this show and alone because I think,
• 2:17:20
  OK, when it comes to intelligent Action Cinema, I think he's done
• 2:17:23
  well, particularly considering the issues he faced.
• 2:17:26
  Yeah. Fair enough.
• 2:17:27
  So. Having said all that, and in
• 2:17:29
  spite of all the issues, I'm going to go a step for the new
• 2:17:32
  fellas and I'm going to go 9 out of 10 for the fugitive, OK?
• 2:17:35
  Fair enough. Our 4th and final score for The
• 2:17:37
  Fugitive comes from our trusted Confidants, our Patreon
• 2:17:40
  community. I'll give you the score in a
• 2:17:42
  moment, but first, some choice comments.
• 2:17:44
  Nice caper Off said. I've been wondering for quite a
• 2:17:47
  while whether it's worth seeing this again and I've always
• 2:17:49
  thought no, but I was wrong. The tension starts at the
• 2:17:53
  beginning and continues to the end.
• 2:17:55
  It brings up resentment. Allah Hitchcock for the innocent
• 2:17:58
  being judged as guilty. This may not mean much if you're
• 2:18:00
  not American, but the city of Chicago achieves character
• 2:18:03
  status in this film. The Polish and Irish
• 2:18:05
  communities, the L, the iconic area adjacent the river and the
• 2:18:09
  river in its Saint Patrick's Day green.
• 2:18:11
  It's just solid fun adventure and action from start to finish.
• 2:18:15
  I'm giving it a 10. Wow.
• 2:18:17
  I mean, that's, that's full marks, right?
• 2:18:19
  Yeah, she's giving it full coming in there real hot, Real
• 2:18:22
  hot. Well done, Kate.
• 2:18:23
  Yeah. Good for you, Kate.
• 2:18:24
  Derrick Horrigan said just a comfort blanket of a movie.
• 2:18:28
  Harrison Ford giving a shit for two hours is always a treat.
• 2:18:32
  TLJ on top form and the smarmy is bad guy of all time.
• 2:18:36
  Wish they'd made a movie about TLJ's team of marshals.
• 2:18:39
  Oh wait. Nice.
• 2:18:40
  Yes, very good. And finally from Andrew, he
• 2:18:44
  said. I'm worried and it will seem
• 2:18:46
  insult, but it's a really good film.
• 2:18:48
  I've always loved Tommy Lee Jones.
• 2:18:49
  Still, I enjoy the film after all these years, but it's never
• 2:18:52
  been a favorite and I can't think of anything really special
• 2:18:55
  to elevate it to a nine. Sorry if I pissed anyone off.
• 2:18:58
  I. Can't think Jeff, you wouldn't
• 2:19:00
  who you pissed off neither. Can I?
• 2:19:02
  I can't think of anything delegated when I've really try
• 2:19:05
  to get it. Really.
• 2:19:06
  Yeah. It's just not there for a lot of
• 2:19:08
  us. I think those are fair comments,
• 2:19:10
  Andrew, you're. Right.
• 2:19:11
  If anything, yeah. And he wasn't the only one who
• 2:19:13
  was kind of underwhelmed by the film, in retrospect.
• 2:19:17
  I can imagine so. Based on all of that
• 2:19:19
  information, fellas, what do you think the Fugitive averaged out
• 2:19:22
  of 10 with our patrons? I'm going to go a solid 9. 9.
• 2:19:27
  I'll back my own betting and go 8.5.
• 2:19:30
  It actually got a very respectable 9 out of 10.
• 2:19:34
  Very nice. Respectable.
• 2:19:36
  Surprising. Yeah, If anything.
• 2:19:38
  I don't know, depends. People do love it.
• 2:19:40
  People do love it. I think there's a lot of
• 2:19:42
  affection. Yeah.
• 2:19:43
  So overall, The Fugitive got a very good score of 35 out of 40.
• 2:19:49
  Join us again in all the right movies.
• 2:19:50
  In two weeks, John, Westie and Matt will be back with Harrison
• 2:19:53
  Ford in the long anticipated and highly regarded Denis Villeneuve
• 2:19:57
  sequel Blade Runner 2049. Yeah, that should be jam packed
• 2:20:01
  jam. Packed.
• 2:20:02
  It's a big one. Yeah.
• 2:20:03
  I'm intimidated. Yeah, revisiting Harrison Ford.
• 2:20:07
  Back. With Denis Villeneuve his third
• 2:20:09
  outing this year. It's a fantastic film.
• 2:20:11
  Is it one of the best sequels ever made?
• 2:20:13
  Let's find out. Well, let's tune in TuneIn in
• 2:20:16
  two weeks to find out. See, also coming this month are
• 2:20:19
  two brand new shows for our patrons double feature in the
• 2:20:21
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• 2:20:23
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• 2:20:31
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• 2:20:33
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• 2:20:39
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• 2:20:41
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• 2:21:01
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• 2:21:03
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• 2:21:22
  And that is a wrap everyone. It is over.
• 2:21:24
  You know, I'm glad I need the rest.
• 2:21:28
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• 2:21:32
  Tell anyone. Fantastic.
• 2:21:34
  Thank you very much for listening, everyone.
• 2:21:36
  We hope you had a great time. Come back in two weeks for Blade
• 2:21:38
  Runner 2049. Yes.
• 2:21:40
  Thank you so much guys. Really appreciate it.
• 2:21:42
  Thanks. Guys.
• 2:22:04
  Yeah, when I die, I want to come back just like you.
• 2:22:06
  Know you mean happy and handsome.