Latest / MyMaine Birth / 108. MyMaine Birth: When Midwifery Regulations Clash With Birth Autonomy, Devanne's Story

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108. MyMaine Birth: When Midwifery Regulations Clash With Birth Autonomy, Devanne's Story · MyMaine Birth

• 0:00
  Devanne: Yeah.
• 0:00
  Devanne: So I got to like I got to 42 weeks and that those two weeks right there were really hard mentally for the most part, like I was okay physically, but just like all my friends and family were texting me just about every single day asking like you, you know, you, you must've had that baby by now.
• 0:22
  Devanne: And like saying crazy things.
• 0:24
  Devanne: And then like other people like would say, oh, I'm surprised they're letting you go this long and and things like that.
• 0:32
  Devanne: And you know, I had other friends that were like two days late and they went and got induced and like I I'm like I'm just trying to like honor my pregnancy and like allow him to come when he's ready.
• 0:43
  Devanne: But you know there's.
• 0:47
  Devanne: I've never actually looked into this, but what I heard from my midwife is that there's a law that like she would only be in the state of Maine, that she would only be able to stay, or I can only stay under her care until 43 weeks.
• 0:59
  Devanne: And I remember, jokingly at like when I was like 20 weeks pregnant, asking her like, well, what if I refuse and I go over 43, what are you going to do?
• 1:07
  Devanne: And she's like, well, I would never leave you.
• 1:08
  Devanne: So like that that helped.
• 1:10
  Devanne: That made me feel better.
• 1:12
  Devanne: But then you know we got to 42 weeks and it was like, okay, we need to start discussing like what will happen.
• 1:23
  Angela: I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer, experienced doula, childbirth educator and your host here on the my Maine Birth podcast.
• 1:31
  Angela: This is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine, from our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births.
• 1:44
  Angela: Every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated.
• 1:48
  Angela: Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
• 1:56
  Angela: Welcome back.
• 1:59
  Angela: You're listening to episode 108.
• 2:01
  Angela: You're listening to episode 108, and today's birth story sheds some light on the complexities of midwifery in Maine, particularly in the wake of the 2019 licensure laws.
• 2:12
  Angela: Today's guest is Devon, who had envisioned a serene home birth but ultimately found herself facing unexpected hurdles that altered her journey.
• 2:21
  Angela: As she navigated her pregnancy, devin occasionally found herself caught in the web of regulations and pressures that prioritized compliance over her own needs.
• 2:31
  Angela: Although she had hoped for a peaceful and self-empowering birth experience when she began approaching 42 weeks of pregnancy, her path quickly spiraled into a series of interventions, including pressure to undergo tests that she felt were unnecessary, and even the coercion to use castor oil to start her labor, despite her body showing signs of labor coming on naturally.
• 2:54
  Angela: Devin's experience culminated in a tumultuous hospital transfer where she faced further violations of her consent, including a forceps delivery and an episiotomy performed completely against her wishes.
• 3:06
  Angela: Her story is a powerful reminder of the importance of autonomy, informed consent and the need for a supportive birth environment.
• 3:16
  Angela: Join me in this episode as we hear Devin share her story, which brings to light the impact of legislation on women's experiences.
• 3:24
  Angela: Which brings to light the impact of legislation on women's experiences.
• 3:26
  Angela: Now I want to be fully open and transparent here.
• 3:28
  Angela: These stories are not shared to persuade anyone to birth in any type of way, nor do they imply that one way of birthing is better than another, and nothing in any of these podcast episodes should ever be considered or taken as medical advice.
• 3:44
  Angela: These stories are simply shared for women who are receiving care to better understand the different models of care that are available.
• 3:52
  Angela: I often hear stories very similar to this in my private birth debrief and integration sessions that I do over Zoom, and if you're having trouble integrating a challenging birth story, or if you're preparing for an upcoming birth and you want to more deeply process a previous experience, you can schedule a private birth debrief and integration session with me.
• 4:15
  Angela: You can find all of the information over on my website, mymainbirthcom, or you can always send me a message over on Instagram mymainbirthcom.
• 4:27
  Angela: Or you can always send me a message over on Instagram.
• 4:28
  Angela: And lastly, I want to talk about the due date.
• 4:30
  Angela: I am not downplaying risk.
• 4:31
  Angela: Yes, there is risk to going past 42 weeks of pregnancy, but I would also like to highlight the nuance in all of this.
• 4:40
  Angela: Devin says in the beginning of this episode, when she became pregnant, she was tracking her cycle and she had a 35 day cycle, and I would argue that 42 weeks pregnancy for a woman with a 35 day cycle might be a little different than 42 weeks for a woman with a 28 day cycle.
• 5:01
  Angela: So I really just want to highlight the nuance in all of this and the importance of checking in with yourself and your own intuition, and please always do your own research into what's best for you and that's going to look different for everybody.
• 5:19
  Angela: All right, let's hear from Devin.
• 5:22
  Angela: Hey, devin, welcome to my Maine Birth, good morning.
• 5:27
  Angela: So, to get started, will you share a little bit about?
• 5:31
  Devanne: you and your family.
• 5:31
  Devanne: Yeah, so my husband and I we live in Brewer.
• 5:36
  Devanne: We were both born and raised Native Mainers.
• 5:38
  Devanne: I'm from Southern Maine and he's from up north.
• 5:42
  Devanne: So I'm a nurse, he's a certified welding inspector.
• 5:46
  Devanne: We've always, like, traveled for work.
• 5:48
  Devanne: So at the time, like when I found out I was pregnant and everything, we were well.
• 5:54
  Devanne: First we were looking to get married and we knew, like weddings are really expensive.
• 6:00
  Devanne: So I was like, well, I'll just be a travel nurse and we'll save up and that's what we'll do.
• 6:05
  Devanne: So we were like, okay, like where are we going to stay?
• 6:08
  Devanne: So we went out and we bought this giant camper and we were going to just live out of the camper.
• 6:14
  Devanne: So for two years we did that and we saved up for our wedding.
• 6:18
  Devanne: We got married July 2022 and then found out we were pregnant like three months later.
• 6:27
  Angela: That's such a amazing way to start a relationship.
• 6:31
  Devanne: Yeah, it was fun and, you know, for like the first couple of years of our relationship, I was back here and he was traveling.
• 6:39
  Devanne: So I was like this I want to travel with you, yeah.
• 6:43
  Angela: How fun.
• 6:43
  Angela: So tell me about when you found out you were pregnant, how did you find out and what were your thoughts in choosing your care.
• 6:51
  Devanne: So we found out.
• 6:54
  Devanne: Well, first I had been taking a couple.
• 6:56
  Devanne: I've been taking a pregnancy test like every day for a couple of days Because I have my form of birth control is.
• 7:04
  Devanne: I always tracked my cycle and I like normally, am kind of irregular.
• 7:09
  Devanne: I have longer cycles, like 35 days, so I knew that there was a possibility I could be pregnant based on the timing.
• 7:18
  Devanne: So I took a couple tests.
• 7:21
  Devanne: They were all negative.
• 7:22
  Devanne: I kind of just forgot about it and went on with my life.
• 7:25
  Devanne: And then one day I was leaving a patient's home and I kind of ran down the staircase out of the house and I noticed my breasts were so tender and I was like, okay, that's they get tender before my period, but not like that, it was much different.
• 7:44
  Devanne: So I was like okay, so I went straight to Walgreens and got a pregnancy test and then I went back to like the work office.
• 7:53
  Devanne: I'm I'm a home health nurse, so I went just have like a home office.
• 7:56
  Devanne: So I went there and tested there, which I kind of like wish I would have waited, but tested there and it was positive and I was freaking out like really excited, but I couldn't tell anyone.
• 8:08
  Devanne: So I just had to like walk out of the bathroom with a straight face and like go about my day and finish seeing patients and I like went to the store and got like a cute little book about being a father and like tape the pregnancy test in there and I brought it home or back to the camper and waited for my husband to get out of work.
• 8:32
  Devanne: And that day we were, there was like a big storm coming through and it was supposed to be really windy and uh, we were pulling the camper out that day and it was kind of like we had to get everything tied up and go before the wind and everything.
• 8:45
  Devanne: So it was hectic.
• 8:47
  Devanne: And my husband came through the door and I had everything on the counter and he didn't even notice.
• 8:51
  Devanne: He just was like, alright, well, I'm gonna go get everything wrapped up, and I'm like Wait.
• 8:56
  Devanne: So he came back in and he saw and he still wasn't processing.
• 9:00
  Devanne: And then he opened it and saw the pregnancy test and it clicked.
• 9:04
  Devanne: But it was kind of weird Cause like we were obviously both excited, but then we had to like we couldn't, you know, talk about it.
• 9:12
  Devanne: Really we had to, we had to leave and we took separate, we had to take separate cars, so it was like we didn't even get to discuss it for like five hours after the fact.
• 9:21
  Angela: That's like so hard?
• 9:22
  Devanne: Yeah, it was, was interesting, um, but then, yeah, we like couldn't stop talking about it.
• 9:28
  Devanne: He actually he was like are you sure you're pregnant?
• 9:31
  Devanne: And so I wouldn't got another test, like one of the ones that actually say you're pregnant.
• 9:35
  Angela: It's like, here you go oh, now what were your thoughts in choosing your care?
• 9:43
  Angela: Had you given it a lot of consideration, like what kind of birth you wanted before you got pregnant?
• 9:50
  Devanne: yeah, I definitely knew before.
• 9:52
  Devanne: I definitely knew before that I was not gonna have a hospital birth.
• 9:55
  Devanne: You know, I know a lot of people's changed through COVID.
• 9:59
  Devanne: I have a really good friend and nursing mentor of mine and she had a home birth during COVID and it just we're very like-minded and so she had shared a lot with me and I just I thought that sounded really nice and I was going back and forth with like should I do?
• 10:22
  Devanne: It was between a birth center and a home birth and I was like well, it's my first one, so maybe I shouldn't just go for the home birth.
• 10:30
  Devanne: But the more I thought about it, I was like why am I in that mindset?
• 10:33
  Devanne: Like why, why do I need to go somewhere?
• 10:35
  Devanne: First to what, make sure that my body works and then, and then I'll have a home birth after.
• 10:41
  Devanne: And I started, you know, the more I became aware and learned about how things you know, a normal birth I just I it took a lot, but I like started trusting my body more and I just I became like very set that I was absolutely having a home birth.
• 10:58
  Devanne: I wanted like as little hands-on as possible.
• 11:02
  Devanne: Yeah, so that's that's, that's how I came to that and I there's only I believe like so it'd be in the Bangor area there's only there's not a lot of options up here.
• 11:14
  Devanne: So I did find a midwife and she was great.
• 11:18
  Angela: So how was it when you first established care and how was your pregnancy looking?
• 11:24
  Devanne: Yeah, it was really good.
• 11:26
  Devanne: I talked to her on the phone when we first established and she was already out the gate.
• 11:33
  Devanne: She was super supportive and I remember I didn't want to go get an ultrasound right away.
• 11:41
  Devanne: I was like I'm obviously pregnant.
• 11:42
  Devanne: I was super sick within like the fifth week of being pregnant, like, obviously, the hormones are there, I'm good.
• 11:49
  Devanne: So she had told me about concurrent care where you could like some people will see the OB and the home midwife at the same time, and a lot of it's like insurance related, because insurance doesn't cover the home midwife but they do cover, like, the medical aspect.
• 12:07
  Devanne: So I was like, okay, yeah, maybe if I do that he they'll prescribe, like the you know, other things, like if I need an ultrasound and it will be free through my insurance, whatever.
• 12:17
  Devanne: But so I had called the OB office and they were like, well, we need to get you in to confirm you're even pregnant first, and like they just really rubbed me the wrong way and they were making me sound like because I was like, well, I don't really want an ultrasound at nine weeks and they were like making me sound irresponsible for not, and I called my midwife up right away.
• 12:40
  Devanne: I actually hadn't even like.
• 12:42
  Devanne: I didn't pay her yet, we weren't like we hadn't figured that all out yet, but she still gave me advice and was like you're not irresponsible for not getting an ultrasound.
• 12:52
  Devanne: You don't have to get an ultrasound to prove to anyone that you're pregnant, like.
• 12:56
  Devanne: So that was really nice.
• 12:58
  Devanne: And then I went to her house every periodically that's where her office is and that was really like just nice.
• 13:06
  Devanne: It was cozy and I liked that.
• 13:08
  Devanne: And I did have one visit with the OB.
• 13:10
  Devanne: It was with the nurse over the phone and they were like oh yeah, they're going to be calling you.
• 13:15
  Devanne: It'll be about an hour visit.
• 13:17
  Devanne: Blah, blah, blah.
• 13:17
  Devanne: She called me and I looked on my phone.
• 13:20
  Devanne: We were on the phone for 10 minutes for the whole visit and like the questions were just like irrelevant is how I felt.
• 13:29
  Devanne: So, yeah, I just I was like okay, we're not doing that at all.
• 13:31
  Devanne: I remember telling like some people like were supportive and other people weren't, like I remember telling someone that the insurance wouldn't cover it and she was like well, yeah, it's so risky, why would they cover a home birth?
• 13:45
  Devanne: Okay?
• 13:48
  Angela: So how was the rest of your pregnancy looking?
• 13:52
  Angela: Was your family?
• 13:52
  Devanne: supportive.
• 13:53
  Devanne: Yeah, my family was was pretty supportive.
• 13:57
  Devanne: I think like a lot like here and there there would be like weird comments kind of, but it was like just the not be like weird comments kind of, but it was like just the not not understanding and kind of like a generation thing.
• 14:09
  Devanne: My mom was really supportive.
• 14:10
  Devanne: She was like I just just whatever you want to do, so I actually I had her at my birth how are you feeling throughout your pregnancy, as things I I felt?
• 14:20
  Devanne: good, but the first trimester was horrible, like I.
• 14:23
  Devanne: I look back on it and I'm like I don't even remember how I got through that.
• 14:27
  Devanne: I would.
• 14:28
  Devanne: I was actually like having nursing students from UNH were shadowing me.
• 14:34
  Devanne: They were all in like their.
• 14:35
  Devanne: It was funny because they were all in their OB unit to like going through that.
• 14:40
  Devanne: And then they'd come ride with me for the day and see patients and I would always I was so early like you couldn't tell I was pregnant, but I would always have to start the day like with a disclaimer, like listen, I am so sick, I'm pregnant.
• 14:54
  Devanne: And, um, here's a good lesson for you guys.
• 14:58
  Devanne: Um, this is what happens.
• 15:01
  Devanne: And so I remember one time I was like I had to pull over all the time and like run into a gas station and like go use the bathroom because it was I was so sick.
• 15:12
  Devanne: And like I remember one time like I had gone in use the bathroom and come out and I like sat in the car and I had to go back in again.
• 15:19
  Devanne: It happened like three times.
• 15:20
  Devanne: I'm like these students must be like what is going on?
• 15:24
  Angela: Oh, no, so did that start to ease up towards the second trimester?
• 15:31
  Devanne: Yes, I felt so good as soon as like that, as soon as that was done, like I started feeling really good.
• 15:38
  Devanne: I was like very I read Lily Nichols book Real food for pregnancy and I I read it in my first trimester and I was so bummed out because I just like couldn't eat anything and like I wanted to make the beef gelatin gummies and I remember like I made them and then I threw up because it's it just didn't seem appetizing, I don't know.
• 16:01
  Devanne: But then in my second and third trimester I was really able to like nourish myself and eat really good and I didn't have any testing done because I felt so good I was going to get my thyroid checked.
• 16:14
  Devanne: But you know, I've done research and it's like it's very normal for you to have like your thyroid to be very low during the first trimester because you're building the placenta.
• 16:27
  Devanne: So I'm like if we check it now, it's obviously not going to be good.
• 16:31
  Devanne: So yeah, I had no testing done.
• 16:35
  Devanne: I definitely did not have any glucose testing done, especially after I read that book and she kind of outlines like why don't you just eat as if you had gestational diabetes, and then like because what am I?
• 16:46
  Devanne: It's not like I would take insulin anyways.
• 16:50
  Devanne: So, did you do the 20 week anatomy scan?
• 16:51
  Devanne: Did you do the 20 week anatomy scan?
• 16:54
  Devanne: And I remember like hating it.
• 16:56
  Devanne: And I also had my midwife.
• 16:59
  Devanne: She was really good about this.
• 17:01
  Devanne: Like I told her I really don't like Bangor Hospital.
• 17:04
  Devanne: She was really good about this, like I, I told her I really don't like Bangor hospital.
• 17:07
  Devanne: Just, I just had bad experience with that OB office specifically at the time.
• 17:11
  Devanne: I had bad experience and she was like well, there's kind of like a crunchier hospital, like on the coast, whatever, and like.
• 17:18
  Devanne: So we ended up going to this like really small hospital where I did really like the ultrasound technician.
• 17:25
  Devanne: She was very nice, but it took so long and like he kept not cooperating is what she would say, and I was like it was like making.
• 17:36
  Devanne: I started feeling really angry and like just, you know, I just wanted her to stop because I also knew that you know that can be really hot for the baby, it can be really loud.
• 17:44
  Devanne: And I just wanted her to stop because I also knew that you know that can be really hot for the baby, it can be really loud, and I just like this is why I didn't want ultrasounds, but I also just wanted to make everyone comfortable, I guess and also probably why he was not cooperating right and they always say that it's kind of a weird saying they're not cooperating.
• 18:05
  Devanne: Well, I wonder why?
• 18:06
  Devanne: Yeah, let's just blame the baby.
• 18:07
  Devanne: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Angela: Oh wow, did they get the information they needed, at least at the end of the, or was it like inconclusive?
• 18:17
  Devanne: Yeah, no, they got the information, I guess, and everything was normal.
• 18:21
  Devanne: And yeah, everything was normal and I didn't get another ultrasound.
• 18:26
  Devanne: I did when I would see my midwife.
• 18:34
  Devanne: We would do the Doppler sometimes.
• 18:35
  Devanne: Other times we just use the fetus scope.
• 18:36
  Devanne: But yeah, I didn't really like doing the Doppler either and I knew he was okay in there.
• 18:39
  Angela: Your intuition should be the most important diagnostic tool.
• 18:46
  Devanne: Yes, exactly, and I was like really like I've never leaned into that so much as when I was pregnant and giving in, laboring and giving birth, that like I just trust.
• 18:58
  Devanne: I've never trusted my intuition so much.
• 18:59
  Devanne: It was really interesting, so important really.
• 19:02
  Devanne: Mm, hmm, yeah, important really.
• 19:05
  Angela: Yeah, it is.
• 19:06
  Angela: So how are you feeling towards the end of your pregnancy now?
• 19:11
  Angela: How is everything going?
• 19:13
  Devanne: Well I, so I stopped working at 38 weeks just because I like I said I was working in New Hampshire and we still owned our home in Brewer.
• 19:25
  Devanne: So I was like I need to go home and nest I was.
• 19:28
  Devanne: We were coming home every weekend and like so three hour drive back here on a Friday after work and then three hour drive back to New Hampshire on a Sunday.
• 19:39
  Devanne: Um, so yeah, we would come back every weekend.
• 19:43
  Devanne: I'm like I just it was so stressful because I would see how much needed to be done and I just like wasn't getting it done.
• 19:49
  Devanne: Um, so that two weeks was interesting.
• 19:52
  Devanne: I like I'd gone back and forth with if I was going to cloth diaper or not and like during that two weeks home I or after the 38 weeks, um, I like got a whole trash bag full from some lady on Facebook marketplace.
• 20:08
  Devanne: I bought a whole bag of cloth diapers and so I had that going on up in my bathtub.
• 20:15
  Devanne: I had them all soaking and I was every so often going in and swishing them around and I remember that actually seeming like such a chore Just getting down and doing that.
• 20:27
  Devanne: I gardened a little bit and I remember that being kind of difficult.
• 20:33
  Devanne: Just I was like randomly finding all these things to do on my hands and knees and it was kind of funny.
• 20:38
  Devanne: I also had listened to a Dr Stu podcast and he had said, like gardening and like scrubbing the floors were like really good things to do.
• 20:47
  Devanne: Towards the end so I was like, okay, I'll scrub the floors.
• 20:50
  Devanne: So I just I was keeping so busy and my husband was still working away.
• 20:55
  Devanne: So I think I hit like 39 and a half weeks and I woke up one night alone and I just my, my belly felt really weird, like I felt like he had shifted in a weird position and like I could have just been going crazy, honestly, like there was just like your emotions are running high towards the end.
• 21:19
  Devanne: But and I like got up and I looked in the mirror and I felt like my belly was like shifted, weird and and whatnot.
• 21:23
  Devanne: And I like got up and I looked in the mirror and I felt like my belly was like shifted, weird and and whatnot.
• 21:26
  Devanne: And I called my husband at like two o'clock in the morning and I was like you need to start your leave and come home.
• 21:33
  Devanne: I can't.
• 21:34
  Devanne: Like I I can't be here alone anymore.
• 21:37
  Devanne: And he said okay.
• 21:38
  Devanne: So he went to work that day and finished and came home.
• 21:42
  Devanne: It was also planned that my mom would be here during the birth and she lives in Rhode Island.
• 21:47
  Devanne: So the plan was okay, like she's gonna come stay with us and work.
• 21:50
  Devanne: She can work from home with her job.
• 21:52
  Devanne: So she'll just work from home until I have the baby.
• 21:55
  Devanne: So she came, I think like right around my actual due date.
• 22:00
  Devanne: My due date was June 20.
• 22:02
  Devanne: Due date my due date was June 20th.
• 22:09
  Devanne: Which due dates are not good.
• 22:10
  Devanne: I will never tell anyone my due date again.
• 22:11
  Devanne: I don't even want to know, but so we were and I had that mindset then.
• 22:14
  Devanne: But still, like being a planner, we needed to like use that.
• 22:18
  Devanne: So my mom came and stayed, my husband was home, we were nesting like crazy and, um, I got to like my due date and we're like okay, any day now, and it was the heat of the summer, we were going on walks every day.
• 22:36
  Devanne: There's like a Hill down the road that we he would walk me up.
• 22:41
  Devanne: He was like my my coach, I would march up the Hill, um, and it was actually so funny Cause he was like my my coach, I would march up the hill, um, and it was actually so funny because there was like a couple days towards the very end that like we were walking up the hill and people were like honking at me, like yeah, I'm just trying to get this baby out.
• 22:56
  Devanne: I it makes me wonder if they did it because they like knew what was going on.
• 23:00
  Devanne: But yeah, so I got to, like I got to 42 weeks and that those two weeks right there were really hard mentally.
• 23:11
  Devanne: For the most part, like I was okay physically, but just like all my friends and family were texting me just about every single day asking like you, you know, you, you must've had that baby by now, and like saying crazy things.
• 23:26
  Devanne: And then like other people like would say, oh, I'm surprised they're letting you go this long and and things like that.
• 23:34
  Devanne: And you know, I had other friends that were like two days late and they went and got induced and like I I'm like I'm just trying to like honor my pregnancy and like allow him to come when he's ready.
• 23:48
  Devanne: But you know there's I've never actually looked into this, but what I heard from my midwife is that there's a law that like she would only be in the state of Maine, that she would only be able to stay or I can only stay under her care until 43 weeks.
• 24:01
  Devanne: And I remember, jokingly at like, when I was like 20 weeks pregnant, asking her like, well, what if I refuse and I go over 43, what are you going to do?
• 24:09
  Devanne: And she's like, well, I would never leave you.
• 24:10
  Devanne: So, like that, that helped.
• 24:13
  Devanne: That made me feel better.
• 24:14
  Devanne: But then, you know, we got to 42 weeks and it was like, okay, we need to start discussing, like what will happen.
• 24:26
  Devanne: And I started really panicking and part of it too, like I was.
• 24:28
  Devanne: I almost started like slipping into a depression, like I didn't want to go anywhere, I didn't want to be around like certain people, because I was like I don't want that to be the last person I see before I go into labor and like it was so my mindset was so interesting and I didn't want to be somewhere and go into labor Like I just so, I just like was home the whole time and like, looking back, I kind of wish I would have just like gone about life and just let it happen.
• 24:55
  Devanne: But, um, there was a lot of pressure, yeah, so much pressure.
• 25:00
  Devanne: And then also like my mom being here and I'm like, oh, my gosh like she's been here two weeks now and I still, like you know, and her husband's calling her, he misses her Like oh, that was hard.
• 25:13
  Devanne: But yeah, I felt like a lot of it was like riding on me going into labor.
• 25:19
  Devanne: So, yeah, I, I remember it was July 5th and I had actually my mom and I went out and we got like a little July 4th newborn outfit Cause we're like there's no way he's not going to be here by July 4th.
• 25:32
  Devanne: My due date's June 20th, like, and he and he wasn't he.
• 25:36
  Devanne: July 5th rolled around and that's when, um a couple of days, I can't remember, when I think it was like, oh, I was almost 42 weeks and my midwife had suggested maybe we do an ultrasound just to make sure all as well.
• 25:50
  Devanne: And I was agreeable to that because I, you know, I'm like it might make her feel more comfortable and not like drop me as a patient.
• 25:57
  Devanne: And so I decided like, okay, let's do that.
• 26:02
  Devanne: And he was, he was perfect.
• 26:06
  Angela: Yeah, so there's a clause in the scope of practice for the licensed, certified professional midwives where they have to refer women to the OB at 41.6 weeks of pregnancy 41.6 weeks of pregnancy if there's a non-reassuring fetal assessment.
• 26:27
  Angela: So you're going in at about 41 and a half weeks to get that biophysical profile so you can maintain care with them for one more week and if that's something you want, of course do that.
• 26:34
  Angela: But I think it's really important to be transparently told and have these open conversations about why these tests are being requested, instead of just kind of manipulated into thinking that it's, you know, in your best interest, when, if talked about more openly, you would have declined it.
• 26:54
  Devanne: So that's, yeah, that's, that must be exactly what it was.
• 26:57
  Devanne: And, yeah, everything was perfect, except she had the ultrasound.
• 27:01
  Devanne: Tech was like he's measuring eight pounds, 12 ounces plus or minus 13 ounces.
• 27:07
  Devanne: I'm like that's so he's either gonna be like 10 pounds or eight pounds, okay.
• 27:12
  Devanne: And so I was like I kind of was of the mindset to like I don't care, I'll get as many ultrasounds as you want at this point, like I just like we have to stay home.
• 27:20
  Devanne: So, yeah, that went well.
• 27:22
  Devanne: I think we were planning for maybe another ultrasound.
• 27:26
  Devanne: And then she had brought up like okay, we need to start discussing.
• 27:29
  Devanne: And she had brought up castor oil.
• 27:32
  Devanne: I had listened to like a thousand birth stories and heard about women using castor oil.
• 27:37
  Devanne: I did not want to do castor oil, just didn't want things to start off that way.
• 27:42
  Devanne: But it was.
• 27:44
  Devanne: It started feeling like I needed to start making moves in order to like I didn't want interventions because I thought it would increase the likelihood of me going into the hospital.
• 27:56
  Devanne: But then my mind shifted and I was like, maybe, if I do these things, it'll increase my likelihood to not go to the hospital.
• 28:02
  Devanne: So I'm like, okay, let's do it.
• 28:05
  Devanne: Like I went, we did our morning walk.
• 28:07
  Devanne: We got back I didn't even go inside.
• 28:09
  Devanne: I was like, get in the car, like let's go get the castor oil.
• 28:12
  Devanne: So we went and got it.
• 28:14
  Devanne: My husband went in and got it.
• 28:21
  Devanne: And right on the bottle it says says do not consume internally, right, like yeah, yeah.
• 28:26
  Devanne: And it says, um, so the normal dose is like two ounces.
• 28:29
  Devanne: And like I had talked it over with one of my nurse friends and we were like, okay, like maybe if I just take, like I'll dose it myself, I'll just take like a tiny little bit whatever.
• 28:38
  Devanne: And I like texted my midwife about it and she was like no, if you do that, like you're going to end up just giving yourself like weird irregular contractions that don't do anything, it's just going to make you uncomfortable.
• 28:49
  Devanne: Like you need to take a therapeutic dose which is four ounces.
• 28:53
  Devanne: So like, literally, it was the whole bottle.
• 28:55
  Devanne: So I'm like okay, um, so I like put it in a smoothie and I just I chugged it and within that was probably at 12 30 and within like so this was I think this was on a Tuesday, it's on the 5th, um, but that was at like 12 30 and then, within like an hour or two, I started having like horrible diarrhea Like I've never, and it was so painful.
• 29:25
  Devanne: I wanted to like like my in my head, like what I'd wanted to do is like in an early labor.
• 29:30
  Devanne: I wanted to like I wanted to make sourdough bread and like just kind of hang out and be outside and like I tried going outside and like I live on like a quarter of an acre, I went like a hundred feet to like the river bank and I suddenly had to go to the bathroom.
• 29:50
  Devanne: I had to like waddle back inside and it was like, okay, I can't get too far from this bathroom.
• 29:55
  Devanne: So that's kind of how like things started for me.
• 29:58
  Devanne: And then I think it started.
• 30:01
  Devanne: I actually like had looked back at our text messages, my text messages with the midwife, to get like a timeline, and I remember I saw I texted her when should the diarrhea stop?
• 30:11
  Devanne: And it was just it's just funny looking back because like it doesn't stop.
• 30:15
  Devanne: It's just like it doesn't stop.
• 30:18
  Angela: Yeah, and that's how it starts the contractions it dehydrates you.
• 30:21
  Devanne: Yeah, and I'll never forget.
• 30:23
  Devanne: I told a coworker, after all of this was said and done, I had my baby.
• 30:27
  Devanne: I said, yeah, I had to take castor oil, and she was like, oh, old wives tale.
• 30:32
  Devanne: I'm like, oh no, no, it's not an old wives tale.
• 30:35
  Devanne: It is effective but it's not fun.
• 30:39
  Angela: So it's just so sad because you had, you know, your support system, who you paid money to to support you in a home birth, making you feel like your body wasn't just going to give birth when your body and your baby were ready.
• 30:55
  Angela: You're like feeling like you needed to do something, when you needed to do something because for her to remain within her licensure to support you.
• 31:04
  Devanne: Absolutely.
• 31:05
  Devanne: And you know, three days before this I didn't mention I had not even three days probably, but I had lost my mucus plug and I was like, oh good, like things are going the right direction.
• 31:15
  Devanne: I immediately texted her and she was like you know, although that's exciting, it doesn't, unfortunately it doesn't.
• 31:21
  Devanne: It could.
• 31:22
  Devanne: It was like you know, although that's exciting, it doesn't, unfortunately it doesn't.
• 31:24
  Devanne: It could it could mean that you still, you know, there's still a long time before you actually go into labor.
• 31:27
  Devanne: And I was like, oh, okay, well, and we weren't doing checks, so I don't know how to, and I it wouldn't matter anyways.
• 31:33
  Devanne: I mean, you can be dilated for a really long time too without going into labor.
• 31:37
  Devanne: So, which is I was also GBS positive, so I like especially wasn't doing checks, but yeah, so I, I took it.
• 31:52
  Devanne: I had diarrhea forever.
• 31:52
  Devanne: Around five o'clock, I'd say, my husband started like grilling for us.
• 31:54
  Devanne: It kind of did slow down.
• 31:55
  Devanne: I was able to be a little more comfortable and like go outside and sit on the patio and I knew I could go into labor.
• 32:02
  Devanne: So I was like, let's have like a good hearty meal.
• 32:05
  Devanne: We had steak tips on the grill and I started contracting.
• 32:11
  Devanne: It's like it wasn't painful, I just could feel the tightening, like, okay, I think something's starting to happen.
• 32:17
  Devanne: So you know, I had some wisdom from listening to all the birth stories and I was like, okay, I need to go sleep, because everyone that starts labor at night the instructions are go back to bed and then we'll do it in the morning.
• 32:32
  Devanne: So I'm like, okay, I'm going to get sleep.
• 32:34
  Devanne: So I think I went and laid down around like eight or nine and as soon as, like, my contractions were, like they were regular it was like every 10 minutes, but they were really far apart I laid down and, like, as soon as I laid down, I started they started picking up and I was not comfortable.
• 32:52
  Devanne: I didn't really want to be in my bedroom for some reason.
• 32:56
  Devanne: Like I was like I don't want to be in here.
• 32:58
  Devanne: I went downstairs and I like got on my couch and I like knew that I knew the positions I should be in to help open up my cervix.
• 33:09
  Devanne: So I like was getting in those positions.
• 33:11
  Devanne: I was like backwards on my couch, a lot like leaning over the headrest, which was like a good position.
• 33:17
  Devanne: But my mom came down in the middle of the night and saw me like that, and she was like, oh goodness, and we're like it's fine, Just go back to bed.
• 33:24
  Devanne: Like she's like I'm not going back to bed.
• 33:27
  Devanne: And so we had the birth room all set up already.
• 33:30
  Devanne: My brother had just moved out, so we had like this room that was completely empty that we got to use as like make a little sanctuary, and so completely empty that we got to use as like like make a little sanctuary.
• 33:43
  Devanne: And um, so I had my husband start filling that cause they, the contractions, really started picking up.
• 33:45
  Devanne: It was like I was timing them on my phone and I think they were like two minutes apart at that point and I was getting really like anxious about timing them.
• 33:57
  Devanne: And finally my husband's like why it doesn't even make sense, like stop timing them, we know it's happening, just stop.
• 34:03
  Devanne: So we had like a little floor bed set up.
• 34:06
  Devanne: He laid on the floor bed in the room and I I tried to lay down, but I just my body didn't want to.
• 34:12
  Devanne: So I got in the pool and I just kind of hung out there for the entire night.
• 34:21
  Devanne: I labored and I remember at one point so there's like this cover that goes on the pool and it floats to keep like debris out and I had folded up the cover and I like put it under my head and shoulders and I was kind of trying to like float on my back and I had a contraction, even floating.
• 34:34
  Devanne: But I was floating on my back and I had a contraction that way and I was like I like after and I was like I like after it, like I was like I can never do a contraction again on my back like that.
• 34:43
  Devanne: It was so painful.
• 34:46
  Devanne: Otherwise, like it was fine.
• 34:49
  Devanne: I mean I was pretty like vocal, but it was, I was fine.
• 34:52
  Devanne: I had this meditation video that like we joked about it after, like everyone has the whole thing memorized because it was like a five minute video, but I listened to it on repeat.
• 35:04
  Devanne: The entire laboring experience and I was able to like really like.
• 35:08
  Devanne: Like I felt like the late, the whole laboring was a good experience.
• 35:13
  Devanne: Like I was really able to like relax through the contractions.
• 35:17
  Devanne: I was like good about like keeping my face and my mouth relaxed and I was good about like I kept telling myself to surrender.
• 35:25
  Devanne: That was kind of like my, my affirmation, and I wasn't scared.
• 35:31
  Devanne: My husband called the midwife around like midnight, I think just to like let her know.
• 35:35
  Devanne: I knew she wasn't going to come out yet, but I was within the window of time, whatever.
• 35:39
  Devanne: It was like I was having contractions every minute and a half.
• 35:43
  Devanne: So he called her and she said, okay, like go try to get some rest, I'll come in the morning.
• 35:49
  Devanne: Well, obviously I didn't get any rest.
• 35:51
  Devanne: It was.
• 35:52
  Devanne: You know, it was pretty.
• 35:54
  Devanne: It was like moderate intensity, I'd say so um, she came out probably like eight or nine in the morning and she like checked me over.
• 36:07
  Devanne: We didn't do like a cervical check or anything like that, but we did like blood pressure.
• 36:13
  Devanne: She did the Doppler, everything was fine, and she kind of just like hung out in the kitchen and like caught up on her charting and my husband and I were in the birth room.
• 36:24
  Devanne: Yeah, I remember I think it was around the contractions still kept going really good.
• 36:30
  Devanne: It seemed like I felt I was like this is happening really fast.
• 36:33
  Devanne: I'm probably going to have a really quick labor is how it felt.
• 36:38
  Devanne: And then and was like comfortable getting out of the pool.
• 36:42
  Devanne: Like I shouldn't say I was comfortable, like it was.
• 36:45
  Devanne: I'd have the mindset to get out and it would take like quite a few contractions to like muster up the courage, like to get finally get out of the pool.
• 36:53
  Devanne: And then, you know, I was walking a lot.
• 36:56
  Devanne: I um, we had I'd been seeing a chiropractor and she had showed my husband came into a couple appointments with us and she had showed him a couple of like the spinning babies maneuvers, um, and like one of them to kind of lift my belly from behind during while I'm standing to have a contraction, to kind of help get the pressure off, and that.
• 37:19
  Devanne: So every time I had a contraction standing up, my husband was doing that.
• 37:22
  Devanne: If he needed to break, my mom would do it for him, and it was really nice.
• 37:29
  Devanne: And then I, at one point I think they did start.
• 37:33
  Devanne: They either started fizzling out, like getting further apart, or, you know, we just kind of were like, okay, this has been going on for a really long time and I was like throwing up like crazy, like I'd have an intense contraction and right at the height of the contraction I would just like projectile.
• 37:50
  Devanne: It was crazy.
• 37:51
  Devanne: And so I was like, should I?
• 37:55
  Devanne: My midwife was like you should try going up the stairs.
• 37:57
  Devanne: So I'm like you know, I've heard that that's really helpful, so I am going to try it.
• 38:01
  Devanne: So I walked up the stairs with my husband close behind me and when I got to the top of the stairs I immediately like had a contraction and I just like fell onto all fours and started throwing up everywhere.
• 38:14
  Devanne: So then I came back downstairs and I was like I'm not doing that again, but I definitely like, like I said.
• 38:19
  Devanne: Then I came back downstairs and was like I'm not doing that again, but I definitely like.
• 38:25
  Devanne: Like I said, I was always like on all fours or like I labored a little bit on the toilet, I really liked the birth pool, but I was still like forward and upright for for those contractions At one point I actually like found a comfortable position, which was interesting, but I was like on my knees in the birth pool and like kind of leaned over the edge and either my mom or my husband would like be on the other side and I just would hug them through each contraction and something about that Like I was like if I can just keep doing this, like I, this is going to be fine.
• 38:54
  Devanne: Like this is, this is fine, I can do this all night, and I actually said that to my mom.
• 38:59
  Devanne: But between a contraction I was like I can do this, like I can, I'll do this all night.
• 39:03
  Devanne: And then, around like three o'clock, my midwife came in and she was like all right, like you know, it is like maybe we should think about, like, breaking your water, cause that that would help speed things up.
• 39:17
  Devanne: And I was like, uh, I don't know, like and we'd already had this conversation previously Like I was like absolutely not, we're not doing anything.
• 39:26
  Devanne: And I was like, well, what about, like the risk for cord prolapse?
• 39:29
  Devanne: And, like you know, I like I'm GBS positive, like those things.
• 39:31
  Devanne: And she was like well, he's already, I think I was eight centimeters, like I did let her check at this point.
• 39:37
  Devanne: Cause I was like, okay, it's kind of like again going to probably make her more within her limits, um, so I'm like, okay, yeah, go ahead and check.
• 39:46
  Devanne: And I think I was eight centimeters.
• 39:49
  Devanne: And she's like, if I, so I said, what about the risk for cord prolapse?
• 39:52
  Devanne: And she's like, well, that risk is really minimal because he's already so far down.
• 39:57
  Devanne: So I'm like, okay, like she, you know, she kind of reasoned with me and I'm like, okay, like that sounds.
• 40:03
  Devanne: And she's like, and it could really pick things up.
• 40:05
  Devanne: And so I'm thinking like, okay, yeah, if we pick things up it'll make the baby come out faster, I won't be needing to go to the hospital.
• 40:12
  Devanne: Like let's do it.
• 40:13
  Devanne: So she breaks my water and there's meconium.
• 40:16
  Devanne: And she actually didn't freak out about it, which I was really happy because I was not going to freak out about meconium.
• 40:22
  Devanne: I know there's things that have happened to babies, but I had done my research and it didn't freak me out.
• 40:29
  Devanne: So I was like whatever.
• 40:32
  Devanne: But now my water's broken.
• 40:36
  Devanne: I'm GBS positive.
• 40:37
  Devanne: There's meconium Also.
• 40:39
  Devanne: I forgot to mention my water's broken.
• 40:41
  Devanne: I'm GBS positive.
• 40:41
  Devanne: There's meconium Also.
• 40:42
  Devanne: I forgot to mention at one point we had checked his heart rate with the Doppler and like he had been decelerating at that point, which that that was the one time I got really scared.
• 40:51
  Devanne: She had put the Doppler on and, like all of us, like everyone, just it got silent because you could hear how slow the heart rate was.
• 40:59
  Devanne: It got silent because you could hear how slow the heart rate was and I was just like staring at her, waiting for her reaction.
• 41:02
  Devanne: And she was calm, but she was like after the water broke or before.
• 41:07
  Devanne: No, that was before.
• 41:08
  Devanne: So like there's like all these things are adding up that are like, oh, so like the now in a bottle of castor oil the day before.
• 41:19
  Angela: I wonder what your baby thought about that, Right?
• 41:22
  Devanne: Exactly and yeah so I'm like.
• 41:27
  Devanne: So now I feel like after the water's broken, now the time clock's really ticking, like I either need to get the baby out or I'm going to get sent to the hospital.
• 41:35
  Devanne: Like I was very aware of that, that possibility at that point.
• 41:38
  Devanne: So, yeah, so she broke my water and I'm pretty sure, like right after that, like I, my contractions just like went away, like they didn't go away, but they like I think they still like were there, but they were like suddenly they were like every seven minutes apart and I was able to like have full conversations with people and I'm just like hanging out at eight centimeters and my water's broken and there's meconium, and yeah so, and then they you know they were still having to check the heart rate through contractions, which that I didn't like that at all, I didn't want to be touched, but just I was in the zone and that was taking me out of the zone.
• 42:23
  Devanne: So I think around, so now I've been laboring for like 24 hours and I think around like seven o'clock at night she was my husband came into the room and he was like listen, she's talking about, like maybe you considering going to the hospital, and I was like absolutely not's talking about, like maybe you considering going to the hospital?
• 42:40
  Devanne: And I was like absolutely not, I'm not going to the hospital, like I'm right away.
• 42:46
  Devanne: I knew like I was like no, and he left the room and let me be with my mom.
• 42:50
  Devanne: And my mom was like you know, I know, and my mom means very well, obviously she doesn't know, but she's like you know, we trust her, so we really should listen to her.
• 43:00
  Devanne: If she, if she thinks that this isn't, you know, going well, then we really should.
• 43:06
  Devanne: And I'm like what do you mean?
• 43:07
  Devanne: It's not going well.
• 43:08
  Devanne: Like I've been handling this so well, like why, why can't we just stay home?
• 43:14
  Angela: And then like why couldn't you just stay home?
• 43:17
  Angela: Didn't she say, or have a conversation with you directly, Like, instead of going around like this she?
• 43:23
  Devanne: did eventually come in and I was like what the frig?
• 43:25
  Devanne: And she's like, well, I think it was like a combination with the heart rate.
• 43:29
  Devanne: And then, yeah, where there was like meconium and my water was broken, so there was some concern there.
• 43:38
  Devanne: And then, like I wasn't getting fluid or food in.
• 43:41
  Devanne: But, like I said, like I felt like I could go, and she actually I had a lot of questions after everything and I like had a session with her and I was like why did I like really have to go?
• 43:52
  Devanne: And she was like I just felt like you weren't going to make it through another night and like that will always.
• 44:01
  Devanne: I was like, okay, you felt like I wasn't gonna make it through another night, like that's really interesting, um, but yeah, so I she also said I was eight centimeters.
• 44:08
  Devanne: She's like, but there's nothing there like holding, like blocking his head.
• 44:13
  Devanne: So if you want to just go, try pushing for a little bit.
• 44:16
  Devanne: And I was like okay, like so I like went in the room.
• 44:20
  Devanne: I was like just there alone and I like remember, like pushing, I'm like what like this is weird, like it just felt, it felt wrong, it felt weird.
• 44:27
  Devanne: I was like this isn't doing anything, like just sitting here pushing and my body is not even ready.
• 44:34
  Devanne: So I finally was like, all right, I'll go to the hospital.
• 44:39
  Devanne: But the only way I just knew I'm like I cause I couldn't even fathom getting dressed.
• 44:45
  Devanne: Like I was completely naked the whole time.
• 44:47
  Devanne: I was walking around my house laboring, like I just couldn't imagine Cause, and that wasn't my plan, that's just like what my body wanted to do.
• 44:54
  Devanne: And like just putting clothes on, it was so weird.
• 44:58
  Devanne: And also to think about like sitting down, like I was like I can't sit down.
• 45:02
  Devanne: It was just so.
• 45:03
  Devanne: Everything was just like opposite of what my body wanted to do.
• 45:09
  Devanne: So the hospital was only like seven minutes away.
• 45:13
  Devanne: I did have a bag like semi-packed, um, so we like got our stuff together, we went to the hospital, um, signed in and we got upstairs.
• 45:26
  Devanne: Did your midwife go with you?
• 45:29
  Devanne: Yes, she did.
• 45:30
  Devanne: And I was like, if I'm gonna be like they wanted to do all these things, I'm like no one's touching me and and that's when I was like I want an epidural because I I knew they were going to probably cause me pain.
• 45:43
  Devanne: They were going to want to check me.
• 45:45
  Devanne: They were going to I was such an unknown to them because I didn't have my glucose testing, I didn't have any labs to look at, I had only like a 20-week ultrasound.
• 45:54
  Devanne: They were like and yeah, and my, my midwife had warned me that like if I ever had a hospital transfer, like that's how they would look at me.
• 46:03
  Devanne: And I was like I don't care.
• 46:05
  Devanne: But yeah, so they, I got there and yeah, I said you guys aren't doing anything because they wanted to run Pitocin too.
• 46:16
  Devanne: And I was like I'm not doing Pitocin without an epidural, like it's not even your natural body's like contractions at that point, like I'm, I'm, yeah, you're gonna have to drug me if you want to do anything.
• 46:28
  Devanne: So they got me.
• 46:30
  Devanne: So first the, the charge nurse, came in and she was like she just like put a Johnny on the bed and a cup and was like we're going to need some urine and like walked out of the room and I was like what the fuck?
• 46:43
  Devanne: Like need urine for what?
• 46:46
  Devanne: No, so then another nurse walked in and thank God it was um, she had gone to school and grew up uh, grew up with my husband.
• 46:56
  Devanne: So I was.
• 46:57
  Devanne: And she was like is that okay if I'm your nurse?
• 46:59
  Devanne: And I was like absolutely Like, thank God it's, it's like a someone that we know.
• 47:04
  Devanne: Like that was like a big deal for us just because I was like so against the medical and all of that which I know is kind of weird because I'm a nurse but I just like I didn't want any of that, I didn't want to have any medical people near me, I just didn't.
• 47:21
  Devanne: So it was just nice, like I felt comfortable with her.
• 47:25
  Devanne: And then our like the midwife that was on call there.
• 47:29
  Devanne: She actually like she doesn't even work there anymore.
• 47:32
  Devanne: She went and did her own thing and she's very like I was um, scared for having a C-section and she was like you're not going to have a C-section.
• 47:42
  Devanne: She's like we can do this as natural as you want or as like assisted as you want.
• 47:49
  Devanne: And I was like okay, well, and like I said I wanted Depedural, they were going to run Pitocin, all that.
• 47:55
  Devanne: So I'm like, well, that's not really natural anymore, but let's do we'll do all that.
• 48:02
  Devanne: And I was just like kind of being dramatic.
• 48:03
  Devanne: But let's do, we'll do all that.
• 48:04
  Devanne: And I was just like kind of being dramatic, but it's cause that's just how I am, like I talk like that, but I was like you know.
• 48:06
  Devanne: So the nurse had a hard time getting my IV in and me, being a nurse, like I know how that is.
• 48:12
  Devanne: So I'm like, oh yeah, I mean, I'm like severely dehydrated.
• 48:14
  Devanne: I've been throwing up, I haven't got any fluids in.
• 48:17
  Devanne: I just like said it and my midwife, like instantly, was like you're not severely dehydrated.
• 48:22
  Angela: If you were, I would have started a line on you at home and I was like whoa, she was so worried about you were severely dehydrated because she told you to drink a bottle of castor oil, which dehydrated you?
• 48:35
  Devanne: yeah, that's what I told her.
• 48:36
  Devanne: I'm like I've been pooping since 12 o'clock, like two days ago, and it was like enough that, like when I labored, like I didn't poop at all because there was like nothing like it.
• 48:47
  Devanne: It was horrible, horrible.
• 48:49
  Devanne: I would never recommend that to anyone.
• 48:52
  Devanne: So we got, I got the epidural and it did like I knew I needed to sleep.
• 48:59
  Devanne: I also knew I needed to eat, which, yeah, they're not gonna let you eat in there.
• 49:04
  Devanne: But as soon as the nurse left the room, I was like someone, give me some food, I'm, I'm eating.
• 49:09
  Devanne: And so I started eating because I was like how am I gonna like push a baby out with like no, nothing in my body?
• 49:16
  Devanne: So I I was able to sleep for like little bit, I ate a little bit.
• 49:21
  Devanne: And then they came in and they were prepping me.
• 49:25
  Devanne: Listen, we don't think you'll need a C-section, but it is possible.
• 49:31
  Devanne: You, if there is a shoulder dystocia, what we're going to have to do is, you know, we'll suddenly a bunch of people are going to come running in here.
• 49:47
  Devanne: We'll have to flip you onto all fours and roll you into the OR.
• 49:52
  Devanne: But don't worry, we have the OR ready for you if that happens and they're like and we, you know, if the baby was partially out we would have to push him back up inside of you and then do this C-section.
• 50:02
  Devanne: I'm like, holy shit, okay.
• 50:05
  Devanne: So I'm just like praying that doesn't happen.
• 50:07
  Devanne: So they did like the epidural and everything and I and ran the Pitocin and I they use the peanut ball or I use the peanut ball and there was like a, there was a position again like for some reason he kept decelerating, like into like.
• 50:23
  Devanne: At one point, like I saw it go into the 60s and I was like, oh god.
• 50:27
  Devanne: So then they were kind of getting more like okay, we need him out.
• 50:31
  Devanne: Um, I did like that.
• 50:32
  Devanne: They like were encouraging me being on all fours.
• 50:35
  Devanne: I I liked, you know, obviously they had to help me, um, get onto all fours, but they were still like making that part of it.
• 50:45
  Devanne: Um, at one point the midwife with my permission, not my midwife, the one that was on call she like what she did the cervical check and she said, can you just do like a practice push?
• 50:56
  Devanne: And I'm like, okay, cause I had the epidural at that time and I know for some people it makes it harder to push.
• 51:01
  Devanne: And I tried and she was like you are such a good pusher and all of this.
• 51:05
  Devanne: And so I was like, okay, like it was giving me more like courage.
• 51:08
  Devanne: Okay, I'm not going to have a C-section, thank God, um, but I I do feel like if it would have been any other provider on call that night, like they probably just would have done a C-section.
• 51:19
  Devanne: Like she was very pro not doing that and I am just so glad because I definitely think it could have gone another way.
• 51:27
  Devanne: She just was really comfortable, like she trusted my body is how I feel.
• 51:34
  Devanne: And then I like it was late and I like looked at my midwife and she had been like with us all day and I'm like you should just go home.
• 51:41
  Devanne: And she's like I, she's like, are you sure?
• 51:45
  Devanne: I'm like, yeah, cause, like what?
• 51:46
  Devanne: What's the point at that?
• 51:47
  Devanne: You know, I was telling like yeah, just go.
• 51:49
  Devanne: And like I was still able, like there was.
• 51:53
  Devanne: They did a lot.
• 51:54
  Devanne: Like they I can't remember what it was that they had to put something up inside and into, like it would have to go past his head to check for, um, the, the contract, the pressure of the contractions, and like they were like relaying the risk to me and I was like no, like I don't want that and like I was still like making decisions and able to, like you know, reason with them and um, but then I did eventually, I'm like, okay, go ahead.
• 52:22
  Devanne: And I thought it was to measure the pressure of the contractions, cause that was like they said that's how they're going to be able to titrate the correct amount of Pitocin.
• 52:32
  Devanne: But I remember so then they were like, okay, it's time to push.
• 52:36
  Devanne: I'm like really Okay, and that felt weird to me, pushing at first.
• 52:41
  Devanne: And then they were like I could still feel the contractions and I felt every bit of pushing, which I'm happy about.
• 52:49
  Devanne: But I remember pushing at one point and they're like, okay, you can stop pushing.
• 52:53
  Devanne: And then my body actually did take over and just started pushing and I was like I remember feeling so proud at that point, like, cause, I was really afraid that the epidural was going to take that away from me but, um, fortunately I did have, like the PCA pump so I was able to control it myself too.
• 53:12
  Devanne: Um, so, yeah, I pushed for, like my husband will say three hours, my mom will say one and a half.
• 53:24
  Devanne: I think I read the um, the paperwork, and it was like one and a half hours.
• 53:29
  Devanne: I pushed for um, but, yeah, he like was taking a.
• 53:34
  Devanne: It was taking a really long time to push him out and he started decelerating and so they like freaked out and they were like we need to use the vacuum.
• 53:43
  Devanne: So they did like the vacuum extraction.
• 53:47
  Devanne: And I remember like looking down and like the way she was like heaving on him I'm like holy cow.
• 53:51
  Devanne: And then she's like, uh, like he, and then all of a sudden his heart rate dropped and she's like okay, devin, we're going to need to do an episiotomy.
• 54:01
  Devanne: And I remember screaming.
• 54:02
  Devanne: I was like no, no, no, no.
• 54:04
  Devanne: And all of a sudden they're snipping me and my husband's face was like I will never forget his face.
• 54:13
  Devanne: He was shocked.
• 54:15
  Devanne: And then my baby was out and I had told them, like through contractions and stuff, like okay, they wanted to know if I want to delay cord clamping.
• 54:22
  Devanne: And I had told them, like through contractions and stuff, like okay, they wanted to know if I wanted delayed cord clamping.
• 54:24
  Devanne: And I said yes, and like I think the delayed cord clamping was like 30 seconds and it was really kind of sad to like my husband had planned to like be the one to catch the baby at home.
• 54:38
  Devanne: And I knew obviously that plan was way gone when we got to the hospital and but he didn't realize.
• 54:44
  Devanne: And like he asked, he was like so can I still?
• 54:47
  Devanne: And they were like no, and it was, it was just.
• 54:50
  Devanne: It was that really like I was really sad hearing that but cause I knew that probably broke his heart, but yeah.
• 54:57
  Devanne: And then I mean after that, like you know, we we still had to argue with them too, like do you want the vitamin K shot?
• 55:05
  Devanne: And I'm like no, I don't.
• 55:06
  Devanne: And they're like my husband was so funny, he like pulled up the pamphlet and was like reading it off to them and I was like good job.
• 55:14
  Devanne: But he, um, you know where he was vacuum extracted and he had this huge welt on his head Like it was horrible.
• 55:17
  Devanne: I was like you know where he was vacuum extracted and he had this huge welt on his head Like it was horrible.
• 55:23
  Devanne: I was like you know, I will do vitamin K if you guys have like the preservative free.
• 55:28
  Devanne: And they had to like search high and low, like call the pharmacy, and the pharmacy was like I'm not sure.
• 55:34
  Devanne: And then they got back to us and they were like, yes, there's one bottle left in the entire hospital of preservative free vitamin k and we're like, okay, great, um.
• 55:47
  Devanne: But yeah, it was all really interesting.
• 55:50
  Devanne: Um, yeah, he did like it was weird too, because like everything was supposed to go like how I felt at home and like my plan.
• 56:02
  Devanne: Obviously I wanted to like breastfeed right away and whatnot.
• 56:05
  Devanne: And then in the hospital I remember like I had him and stuff and then I was like can I breastfeed him now?
• 56:12
  Devanne: Like I asked the nurse and I like think about that too.
• 56:15
  Devanne: I'm like why did I ask, like it's my baby?
• 56:18
  Devanne: But yeah, that's how all that went.
• 56:24
  Angela: Did they have you on antibiotics because of?
• 56:25
  Devanne: the gbs.
• 56:25
  Devanne: They did so and that was another thing.
• 56:28
  Devanne: Like I only agreed when I got in there because and my midwife had briefed me on this too if you don't run them I think it's 12 hours they want to run them at least.
• 56:39
  Devanne: If you don't, they're gonna like try to hold your baby, like discharge you but keep your baby.
• 56:44
  Devanne: So I was like there's no way in hell I'm going to give them any reason to try to do that.
• 56:50
  Devanne: And they still did try to to hold him and I said no, you're not holding him, like we'll both be discharged.
• 56:56
  Devanne: And I was like we have.
• 56:58
  Devanne: You know, if it makes you guys feel better, like I have a discharge plan, my midwife is going to come see us at home right after.
• 57:06
  Devanne: So if you guys need to like chart that and make it look better, go ahead and put that in your notes.
• 57:14
  Angela: Oh wow.
• 57:14
  Angela: So do you remember how your placenta was born, or was it just?
• 57:19
  Devanne: Oh they, oh, so that was interesting.
• 57:22
  Devanne: So they did like tug it out, which I was like what?
• 57:25
  Devanne: Okay, what the hell?
• 57:26
  Devanne: Um, they tugged it out and they were like this placenta is beautiful, like there's no calcifications on it.
• 57:35
  Devanne: That's so interesting because usually, like an old placenta at 42 weeks is calcified.
• 57:41
  Devanne: I'm like, oh, so interesting, like maybe I could have just let my baby come out when he was ready, and yeah, so that that was interesting and so I ended up I.
• 57:53
  Devanne: So I started on like a Tuesday or Wednesday laboring and then I had him on Friday Wednesday laboring and then I had him on Friday, a Friday morning, um at 4 52 AM and he ended up being nine pounds, one ounce, like the.
• 58:09
  Devanne: They had the whole NICU team in there and I'll never forget like they went to check him and like they were like kind of like snickering Cause.
• 58:16
  Devanne: They're like he was just like he checked out, perfect.
• 58:19
  Devanne: He's like one of the biggest newborn babies I've ever seen.
• 58:24
  Devanne: Like he didn't even really look like this tiny, shrively newborn.
• 58:27
  Devanne: He looked like robust and I was just I was really proud of having a big baby.
• 58:34
  Devanne: Honestly.
• 58:37
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, that's amazing, but that's that's crazy about the episiotomy.
• 58:43
  Angela: Um, so were you on your hands and knees and that happened, or they, or had you went they had switched me on my back for most of the pushing.
• 58:53
  Devanne: Uh, most of it was on all fours, but I don't remember why I got.
• 58:56
  Devanne: Oh, I think so every time he would like decelerate.
• 59:01
  Devanne: I think that they they would like switch me into a different position and I think they had known like we were going to do the vacuum extraction.
• 59:10
  Angela: They probably knew they were going to like go in and do stuff and got me on my back for that well, yeah, they had fear-mongered you from the minute you walked in about shoulder distortion having, yeah, kneel to the er with the baby half in you and like what like are you?
• 59:27
  Angela: That was they pathologized your birth like yes, and there was nothing to pathologize.
• 59:33
  Angela: You never, no one gave any consent for the episiotomy.
• 59:37
  Devanne: And you're said no, screaming no and I said no, yeah, it's crazy that is such a violation yeah, and I saw the look on the midwife's face, the the on-call one, and she looked like like there was, I think, in her mind she was doing it out of like I'm gonna save your baby's life or something like it's, you know, life or death and it's I don't think it was like.
• 1:00:04
  Devanne: And she told me she was like you know, you would have had probably like a grade four tear if you tore naturally.
• 1:00:09
  Devanne: So it's probably a good thing we did the episiotomy and he's going to say something to justify it, right, yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:18
  Devanne: Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:20
  Devanne: So how was your time in the hospital after that near immediate postpartum?
• 1:00:31
  Devanne: It was okay.
• 1:00:36
  Devanne: I did like appreciate the nurses, they were just nice.
• 1:00:37
  Devanne: But like I really wanted to like talk to people about what I had just gone through and, like you know, they hear it all day Like no one cared that I had a really long.
• 1:00:41
  Devanne: And, like you know, they hear it all day like no one cared that I had a really long labor.
• 1:00:44
  Devanne: No one cared that I was like trying for a home birth and I know how, like some nurses feel they're like people in the medical field feel about home births and I just kind of felt like are they judging me?
• 1:00:56
  Angela: like yeah, this is what happens when you try a home birth and like I just I felt uncomfortable in that sense, just frustrating because, even though this is what happens when you try a home birth, quote-unquote it wasn't natural, it was managed and it was pressured and you were, like, felt forced to do things that were completely unnatural and and like, if you, what would have happened if you did nothing?
• 1:01:23
  Devanne: right.
• 1:01:26
  Devanne: Yeah, that was like one of the hardest things in still cause I've never done like therapy or anything, since I'm still kind of deciding if I need to or not.
• 1:01:36
  Devanne: But I always think about like well, what if I just wouldn't have taken the castor oil?
• 1:01:42
  Devanne: Like I did lose my mucus plug.
• 1:01:44
  Devanne: Things were going in the right direction.
• 1:01:47
  Devanne: He's not going to stay in there forever.
• 1:01:49
  Devanne: Like, and like my, even my husband, like you know, he's like well, you know, I I think everything happened the way it was supposed to.
• 1:01:56
  Devanne: Like we have our beautiful boy and like you know what if something did happen?
• 1:02:00
  Devanne: And I'm like I don't feel that way, like I am really grateful, like we, you know, I still, you know, was able to have a vaginal birth.
• 1:02:08
  Devanne: I didn't have a C-section, but like that's not at all.
• 1:02:12
  Devanne: Like I worked so hard in preparation and like getting my mind into a certain place for this home birth and like it's all I thought about for months.
• 1:02:22
  Devanne: And then, like that's not what happened and like I feel sad that I had a plan and then, yeah, like I went against it and I also I didn't realize how hard it is waiting for your baby to come when you have that due date and yeah, it was crazy.
• 1:02:49
  Angela: Yeah, it can be really hard getting hung up on the due date and planning everything around that, and then, like you said, people do go in and get induced on their due date or the day after their due date and when you have a different plan, it's.
• 1:03:01
  Devanne: Yeah, and then, like some of the comments from my friends, I remember like telling some people and they were like like no one wanted to take the time to like chat about it, like they didn't seem to really like.
• 1:03:15
  Devanne: It just didn't seem like they cared, I guess, like they probably did, but it just didn't seem like it, and like they probably did, but it just didn't seem like it, and like they were just like, oh, like you have your son or you know, um, like what's there to be upset about?
• 1:03:29
  Devanne: And yeah, I didn't see it like that.
• 1:03:33
  Devanne: Or I think some people really thought that I just went to like the hospital just for, like, pain management or something like I just gave up and went, and that was another thing I was.
• 1:03:42
  Devanne: I was like like, like I know that that's not what happened, but I hope like like I got out of the hospital and I read my paperwork and it literally said reason for appointment or whatever reason for hospital stay and it said pain management.
• 1:03:56
  Devanne: And I was like, are you freaking, kidding me?
• 1:03:59
  Devanne: Like no, I would never have came here, because I actually think that like, like coming here was the most uncomfortable, scary thing.
• 1:04:05
  Devanne: Like staying home is where I was safe and like able to manage my pain actually, but I so that was like annoying.
• 1:04:17
  Angela: How was your postpartum once you got back home?
• 1:04:19
  Angela: So this was July of 23.
• 1:04:23
  Devanne: My son is 19 months old now.
• 1:04:25
  Devanne: It was interesting because we had like not slept that was another thing in the hospital Like we kept falling asleep with our son on our chest and they'd come in and be like, has anyone talked to you about safe sleep?
• 1:04:40
  Devanne: And we're like, okay, leave us alone.
• 1:04:42
  Devanne: And then I remember my plan had been I'm going to nurse him on demand.
• 1:04:48
  Devanne: He's going to let me know when he's hungry.
• 1:04:50
  Devanne: He's a nine-pound baby.
• 1:04:52
  Devanne: He's not needing extra nutrition, he's good.
• 1:04:58
  Devanne: And the nurse would come in every every two hours and like wake, like we'd all be sleeping really good, including my son, and she'd like come in overnight.
• 1:05:07
  Devanne: You're like, have you fed him yet?
• 1:05:09
  Devanne: And I'd say no, and she's like, well, it's been two hours, you need to feed him again, like.
• 1:05:13
  Devanne: And so like I'd have to like wake him up and feed him.
• 1:05:16
  Devanne: And it was just like crazy.
• 1:05:17
  Devanne: But yeah, we got home and it was good.
• 1:05:18
  Devanne: It was nice to just like crazy.
• 1:05:19
  Devanne: But yeah, we got home and it was good.
• 1:05:22
  Devanne: It was nice to just like be home with him and not have other people and like he did so well breastfeeding and I just I'll always be like so grateful for that because, like, if I didn't have at least that with him, like I don't, I don't know that.
• 1:05:39
  Devanne: I think that like as hard as you as, and as much as I went through I know breastfeeding is not easy, obviously because I'm still breastfeeding him now.
• 1:05:49
  Devanne: I don't know I don't see that ever coming to an end anytime soon, but I know how hard it is and I just I'm really grateful that that all worked out for me.
• 1:06:01
  Devanne: But, honestly, postpartum was good.
• 1:06:03
  Devanne: Surprisingly, like I cried a lot, like thinking about the experience, and my husband was really supportive with that and like would talk to me.
• 1:06:10
  Devanne: But I remember like some of our family coming over and like no one asked me, like okay, so like how'd the home birth go?
• 1:06:17
  Devanne: Or like how did you know?
• 1:06:18
  Devanne: People were just like, let me see the baby.
• 1:06:21
  Devanne: I'm like okay, like anyone want to check on me.
• 1:06:27
  Devanne: And I had planned to like after the home birth, like I wasn't going to let visitors come for a really long time.
• 1:06:33
  Devanne: But then we had people there like days after.
• 1:06:35
  Devanne: But I felt like my, like I was really, you know, I was really tired, like anyone would be.
• 1:06:43
  Devanne: Emotions were high, but I was just like.
• 1:06:45
  Devanne: I was definitely like living on like a high of just still, of just having my baby and I was just really really happy for the most part and I'm grateful for that too Like obviously I had some lows, like we would, like you know anyone would but for the most part like I didn't have like postpartum depression, which I'm so grateful for that too.
• 1:07:09
  Angela: It can be really hard when you have a birth story that doesn't go as you planned and then, yeah, kind of coming back from that, it is constantly processing it and healing from it.
• 1:07:19
  Devanne: Yeah, and at first I was like, okay, when can we get pregnant again?
• 1:07:24
  Devanne: Like cause, I wanted this like redemption birth for like a long time.
• 1:07:28
  Devanne: I've finally just started being like okay, like whenever it happens, it happens.
• 1:07:33
  Devanne: But yeah, that was surprising to me how badly I was.
• 1:07:36
  Devanne: Like I was like obsessed with wanting to get pregnant again like right away.
• 1:07:39
  Devanne: And now I realized I'm like I was like obsessed with wanting to get pregnant again like right away.
• 1:07:42
  Devanne: And now I realize I'm like holy cow.
• 1:07:43
  Devanne: I'm glad we haven't got pregnant yet, because I couldn't imagine having another baby with my 19 month old.
• 1:07:49
  Devanne: I know a lot of people do it, but like holy cow.
• 1:07:54
  Angela: So if you were to get pregnant again so I'm assuming you've given this quite a bit of thought what would you things do differently?
• 1:08:02
  Devanne: assuming you've given this quite a bit of thought, what would you things do differently if you don't?
• 1:08:06
  Devanne: Honestly, I am hoping to like just have a doula.
• 1:08:08
  Devanne: Like I don't want a midwife.
• 1:08:11
  Devanne: Um, I've told my husband before I'm like I'd like to just like free birth and he's like he's not against it because he thinks that like something would go wrong.
• 1:08:21
  Devanne: He's saying he's against it because he thinks that like something would go wrong.
• 1:08:22
  Devanne: He's saying he's against it because he felt like the midwife was really supportive of him, like she had made him food during it and like encouraged him to rest.
• 1:08:30
  Devanne: So he's like you know, it's more of like support for me.
• 1:08:33
  Devanne: Like okay, but we don't need a midwife for that.
• 1:08:35
  Devanne: Like we can just like have a person.
• 1:08:38
  Devanne: Also, like I realized that like I wanted people hands off but at the same time, like my midwife was like very much not a doula.
• 1:08:48
  Devanne: Like I realized like I would have loved someone there, like giving me encouragement.
• 1:08:53
  Devanne: Like okay, let's go up the stairs together.
• 1:08:55
  Devanne: Let's like do this.
• 1:08:56
  Devanne: Like maybe we can try this naturally, like helping to relax me or like noticing when we can try this naturally, like helping to relax me or like noticing when maybe there's something that could be different.
• 1:09:05
  Devanne: But like I but my midwife like, and I think it was like in a respectful way, but she very much like was very hands off.
• 1:09:12
  Devanne: Like you know, I didn't want her hands on medically but just maybe, maybe I was expecting more like emotional support but in her defense I guess that is more of like a doula's role than hers.
• 1:09:26
  Devanne: Maybe I don't know it's so hard and I had listened to like.
• 1:09:32
  Devanne: So I was like listening to happy home birth podcast and then I was also listening to free birth society and it's so I was like kind of in the middle, like I was like, oh, why are some people acting like their midwife would sabotage their birth?
• 1:09:46
  Devanne: Like are they crazy?
• 1:09:47
  Devanne: And then like listening to some of like the happy home births, I was like they're like pretty medical, like what, like what the heck?
• 1:09:54
  Devanne: And I was like so in the middle and now I'm like much more onto like the free birth aspect of things, like I can see and like why people could feel like their midwife would have sabotaged their birth.
• 1:10:07
  Devanne: I can see how that can happen.
• 1:10:09
  Devanne: In certain stories I've heard Like it does happen and and like a lot worse cases than you know what I went through.
• 1:10:16
  Devanne: I know it happens yeah.
• 1:10:19
  Angela: It's hard when you add in that aspect of the state and even just you really sense like it's been so many years coming, like since the seventies, like all of the like medicalization of midwifery and like co-opted almost by the government.
• 1:10:34
  Devanne: Yeah, no, it's sad.
• 1:10:36
  Devanne: And I also wanted to tell you I listened to, I think, melanie's story and I cried.
• 1:10:44
  Devanne: That was like the first time.
• 1:10:46
  Devanne: I was like holy cow, like someone has a similar experience to me, like that happens, and she went in with the same mindset she was well-researched, like she believes in women's bodies and all that, and like it still happened to her and it it just like gave me that like I don't know if I should call it solidarity, but it just gave me like that validation too of like I really do think that she, like it, was a bit sabotaged.
• 1:11:13
  Angela: Yeah, it sounds like it and yeah, melanie's story is very powerful.
• 1:11:18
  Angela: It's in episode 69 for anyone that wants to go listen.
• 1:11:22
  Angela: As a final question if you were to give advice to someone who's expecting, or even new parents, what would be the biggest thing you'd want to share?
• 1:11:32
  Devanne: I would say just like, trust the process, like and that can go across all aspects.
• 1:11:37
  Devanne: So the pregnancy, the birth, waiting for your baby to come, don't always like listen to whatever other people are saying.
• 1:11:46
  Devanne: Like trust your, your instincts.
• 1:11:48
  Devanne: They're there for a reason.
• 1:11:50
  Devanne: And then, yeah, just trust the process, like I even still use that now with my 19 month old, like certain things that I'm like I feel like maybe he should, or like I'll see other babies doing one thing and he's not, or he like you know they're all different.
• 1:12:03
  Devanne: And I'm like I feel like maybe he should, or like I'll see other babies doing one thing and he's not, or he, like you know they're all different.
• 1:12:05
  Devanne: And I'm like, okay, like let's just trust the process, like he is clearly fine and healthy.
• 1:12:10
  Devanne: So I that's that's my advice and just and as far as like, during the laboring process, just what helped me get through is that affirmation of surrendering, just kind of surrender to, to the contractions and all of that going on.
• 1:12:30
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, that's amazing and I especially love that as applied to like your kids growing up.
• 1:12:37
  Angela: I remember when my daughter was two, everybody was like she wasn't talking yet and everybody's like she's going to be nonverbal and I'm like I don't think so.
• 1:12:44
  Angela: But it was like really a thing, like why is she not talking yet?
• 1:12:49
  Angela: And it's just like she started talking.
• 1:12:51
  Angela: Yeah, right, like just everything comes, you know when it's supposed to.
• 1:12:58
  Devanne: Yeah, and that's like with with my son.
• 1:13:00
  Devanne: He's like he's not eating a lot of solids, like he will but he's not really into it.
• 1:13:05
  Devanne: Like he wants his milk and he's like in the 90th percentile for his weight, so obviously like he's gaining weight, like I'm, he's still.
• 1:13:13
  Devanne: You know it's the breast milk still sufficient.
• 1:13:16
  Devanne: But, like you know, I have other friends that their babies are like devouring.
• 1:13:20
  Devanne: Every time I see them they like devour their meal and my son's over there, like picking at, like playing with it, like not even, and then he's signaling for milk and I'm like, yeah, I don't know, but you know the difference is like it is different when your baby's breastfed and your breast milk is changing with their needs.
• 1:13:38
  Devanne: It's different than formula fed, like that's only formulas only made to sustain a baby up to 12 months, so like they do have to switch to food earlier.
• 1:13:51
  Angela: Yeah Well, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you, Devin.
• 1:13:55
  Angela: Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story.
• 1:13:58
  Devanne: Yeah, Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:14:00
  Devanne: This was.
• 1:14:01
  Devanne: I loved this.
• 1:14:02
  Devanne: It was nice.
• 1:14:05
  Angela: Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton of resources for pregnancy and birth.
• 1:14:11
  Angela: If you're pregnant, whether you're a first time mom or if this is your fifth baby, I want you to check out the show notes, because I have some free trainings and free downloads that you can sign up for, as well as the link to access my labor of love, a comprehensive, self-paced online childbirth education course.
• 1:14:28
  Angela: I created this course specifically for moms who don't want to be told what to do, regardless of where you're birthing or who you're birthing with, and I'd honestly love to teach you everything that I know so that you can prepare for an autonomous birth experience and prepare to step into your role as the leader of your birth journey.
• 1:14:48
  Angela: So click to the show notes, check out all of those links and, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at mymainbirth over on Instagram.