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Building Writing Communities · Saved as Draft

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Good evening, everyone.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: So I'm here with my dogs.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: They have attachment issues, apparently.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm Michelle Ray, and my subset is called States of Matter,
0:17
SPEAKER_00: and I focus on nonfiction mostly,
0:20
SPEAKER_00: like memoir and travel, and really like my theme,
0:24
SPEAKER_00: my jam, what I really love to write about is like transitions, big transitions,
0:28
SPEAKER_00: and Kind of what happens when we combine our past selves with our future selves
0:33
SPEAKER_00: and that kind of dynamic.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: So one thing I'm always really interested in is the idea of community
0:42
SPEAKER_00: and the way community and creativity kind of work together,
0:45
SPEAKER_00: kind of feed off one another.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: So I really wanted to talk to my friend, Bradley,
0:51
SPEAKER_00: because he has one of the most vibrant communities here at Substack.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: He really works hard to offer all kinds of like prompts and different things
1:02
SPEAKER_00: to his listeners and his community.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: So he's going to tell us all about like his thoughts on community and how he thinks,
1:10
SPEAKER_00: you know, community and creativity work together.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: And so we'll have that conversation.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to give Bradley a chance to introduce himself and then we'll go from there.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Sure. Sounds good. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody. Yeah.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: As Michelle said, I run a community on Substack here.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: My publication is called The Writer's Journey.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: As of January of 2027, I'll have been here two years.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: And it's crazy to think that it's only been two years because so much has happened.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: The community, obviously, that surrounds me has grown exponentially in the time
1:40
SPEAKER_01: since I've joined.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: And since then, I've launched a few podcasts and as Michelle said,
1:45
SPEAKER_01: I also do a lot of writing prompts and writing challenges.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: There's always something going on nearly every day of the week.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: So It's really fun, really exciting to be here.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, shout out to my community.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: I saw JM Gooding joined.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: He actually helps with all the challenges that I do,
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SPEAKER_01: including this last one that we did in October, a whole horror writing challenge.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: I would not be able to handle an event like that without help from him
2:08
SPEAKER_01: and Leron Haywood is the other person that helps with that.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: So shout out to them as well.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's an incredible community.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: It really, really is.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: It's by far the biggest, most vibrant, as you said,
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SPEAKER_01: most engaged community that I've ever been a part of as a writer,
2:23
SPEAKER_01: which is why I'm so passionate about it,
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SPEAKER_01: why I'm so focused on maintaining it and growing it,
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SPEAKER_01: because it really feels like I've found my purpose in a big way.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited to see where that goes.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Well, that's great.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And congratulations, because it really does take a lot of effort, a lot of consistency.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of motivation and really care for what you're doing.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And I definitely see that in you, you know,
2:49
SPEAKER_00: because I feel like I've known you since the beginning.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Like I've been on for about a year and a half and you're definitely one
2:54
SPEAKER_00: of the first substacks that I found and like kind of jumped into your community
2:59
SPEAKER_00: a little bit. And I remember jumping into the shout outs. Right.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And so you were like one of the first people to like read my post online and Um,
3:12
SPEAKER_00: so it was just really, um, validating in a way to, you know,
3:17
SPEAKER_00: have somebody that had like, you know,
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I probably at that point had like a hundred subscribers or something and people
3:23
SPEAKER_00: that were like had their in the thousands of subscribers just felt like, wow,
3:28
SPEAKER_00: like so untouchable.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, but, but, um, anyway, so let's just get into this whole, um, community thing.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: So we came on the Substack and I do remember you saying like, um,
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Substack was different almost from the beginning.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: You felt like you were communicating and getting traction right away.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: What do you think makes Substack different than other platforms
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SPEAKER_00: or things you've tried?
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
3:54
SPEAKER_01: so something that I can't remember exactly how I discovered Substack specifically,
3:59
SPEAKER_01: but I remember when I first joined,
4:01
SPEAKER_01: I had been on a platform prior to this one called Vocal, which is a great platform,
4:06
SPEAKER_01: by the way, shout out to Vocal.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And that platform is very much like medium in the sense that it was kind of article
4:13
SPEAKER_01: and fiction focused.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: And it had like seeds of a community,
4:16
SPEAKER_01: like you would see people in the comments and stuff like that.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: But when I came here to Substack,
4:20
SPEAKER_01: I really admired the combination
4:22
SPEAKER_01: of a social media platform
4:24
SPEAKER_01: Substack has its fair share
4:29
SPEAKER_01: of problems and glitches
4:30
SPEAKER_01: and issues, but conceptually,
4:32
SPEAKER_01: it's very interesting to think that you can be in the same place experiencing a feed
4:37
SPEAKER_01: of posts, which are the notes, but then also anybody you come across,
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SPEAKER_01: you can dive into their work as a writer, as a poet, whatever they do on here.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: So that sort of combination of features was really interesting to me,
4:51
SPEAKER_01: and I think what drew me to Substack from the get-go was But also, you know,
4:55
SPEAKER_01: just kind of making my account, working on my first post,
4:58
SPEAKER_01: scrolling through the feed.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I just saw a lot of positivity, a lot of discussion about the craft of writing.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Just it was it was a completely different first impression
5:08
SPEAKER_01: to any other social platform that I've been on.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, like I wasn't someone who up
5:15
SPEAKER_01: until that point was very like forward, like with like engaging on the Internet.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was always a little kind of, you know, cautioned with it.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, but, but here I felt safe to kind of, you know, talk to people and respond to things.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when I first started posting,
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I immediately got a couple of comments and they were really nice.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: And it was just all of that kind of happened within the first week that I was here.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is, there's something here.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I, I saw the seeds of something, right?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Like I, I didn't see a community quite like the one that I'm trying to build
5:45
SPEAKER_01: that I have been building here, but I saw pieces of it.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: And I saw people that I feel like would be great in a community like that.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: With the work that they were doing.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to try.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to kind of take a stab at it.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: And I can go into more detail, of course.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: But one of the first things I did was post like a little mini challenge to kind
6:05
SPEAKER_01: of bring people in.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'll just kind of start from there.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of what you've been like.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: That's your MO from the start, at least as long as I've known you.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think...
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And you can answer this question,
6:18
SPEAKER_00: like what made you kind of go for that community right away instead
6:22
SPEAKER_00: of just like thinking, oh, I have to have subscribers first?
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Because I think people on Substack initially, they're like, oh,
6:28
SPEAKER_00: I have to get people, you know, I have to have members, I have to optimize.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how many people you like what your rise to fame was like in Substack.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: But like, why did you decide to just go straight in for the community?
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I think it's because at that point in my life, it was a couple of things,
6:49
SPEAKER_01: but number one, I was very starved for community.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: I had tried, like I said, I was on vocal for about four years before coming to Substack.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Prior to joining vocal, I was a freelance writer and I did a lot of ghostwriting.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: I was a professional ghostwriter for five years back in the day.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Back then, I obviously wasn't having anything published under my name.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know any other writers.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really have any writer friends.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: I tried to go out of my comfort zone and attend some in-person events and stuff,
7:22
SPEAKER_01: but it just never clicked.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Again, I would have some positive experiences interacting with writers
7:27
SPEAKER_01: on other social platforms, but it was always very surface level,
7:32
SPEAKER_01: and we never really talked again.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: You saw them once, exchanged a few comments, and then never again.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: And so when I got here, I really kind of had community on the mind from day one
7:43
SPEAKER_01: where I was like, again, I saw some interactions and some people
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SPEAKER_01: and some things happening here that told me that people here want
7:50
SPEAKER_01: to have genuine conversations.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, this is special.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: I want to be a part of this.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And again, this was coming out of having been off the ghostwriting gig
8:02
SPEAKER_01: for several years, trying to build a name for myself,
8:04
SPEAKER_01: trying to build my name as an author outside of all the ghostwriting that I did.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, obviously that's,
8:12
SPEAKER_01: I've always had the dream to be a successful author and I still do, right?
8:15
SPEAKER_01: But I kind of learned as time went on and as I grew as a person and as a writer
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SPEAKER_01: that it's just as important to me to be part of and to nurture the writing community
8:27
SPEAKER_01: as well as being successful.
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SPEAKER_01: Like those are neck and neck in terms of goals for me now.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just, you know, it's a culmination of what I've been through,
8:36
SPEAKER_01: my journey that I've been on.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and, and, and like I said,
8:38
SPEAKER_01: just always wishing that I had friends that were writers who were creative.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Like I just wanted to be part of that, you know?
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and, and, uh, yeah, the second I saw that it was even remotely
8:49
SPEAKER_01: a possibility here on Substack, I was like, I need to seize this any way that I can.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And you really just kind of jumped in and I think, um,
8:58
SPEAKER_00: starting off with your prompts and your, what is it?
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Like challenges, not conflict.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Writing challenges, essentially, like when you post different types of prompts.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's a brilliant idea, right?
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SPEAKER_00: Because it's not just like a one and done type of situation.
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SPEAKER_00: Like people have to get the prompt from you, then write it and come back.
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SPEAKER_00: And then you're engaging with their material.
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SPEAKER_00: So did you feel like once you started that, that it was sustainable?
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SPEAKER_00: Because I would fear like, oh, if I do this, then I'm going to have to read all the work.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Have you found that it's been sustainable?
9:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know you mentioned that you have Ryan, is it, that helps you?
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Leron and JM Gooding are the others that are on.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my challenge team, if you will.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's an interesting question because the challenges, when I first joined,
9:53
SPEAKER_01: it was January, of course, and many years prior to joining Substack,
9:59
SPEAKER_01: I always tried to do Flash Fiction February,
10:01
SPEAKER_01: which is like a very widely known thing that writers do, right? Right.
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SPEAKER_01: And I never finished it.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: I would always like, I would start February 1st and every day I'd write like
10:09
SPEAKER_01: a flash fiction piece and I'd, you know,
10:11
SPEAKER_01: not put too much pressure on making it polished or anything,
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SPEAKER_01: but just write every day, you know,
10:15
SPEAKER_01: and I would get the prompts from like a website or something.
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SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't actually writing the prompts or anything for myself.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I joined Substack in January.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: Things picked up pretty quickly.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: I met some people, you know, created some connections.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: And so February came around and I thought to myself, you know what?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it'd be super fun to just do a flash fiction February of my own.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: And use that as a way to hold myself accountable and actually finish it for once.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I never planned on it really.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, it was just kind of an experiment, like with a lot of things that I do.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: It was like, I'm just going to try this and see how it goes.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, that first challenge, I couldn't tell you how many entries there were.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I was able to read almost all of them in that first challenge.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, people just had so much fun.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: There was so much like engagement and excitement and energy around it.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: And selfishly, it made me want to write more
11:03
SPEAKER_01: because I felt like I was writing alongside other creatives
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SPEAKER_01: and that energy is infectious for me.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Not to mention, it felt good to hold myself accountable to real people.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it was great. It was awesome.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And that first month, yeah, I did the Flash Fiction February and it was
11:22
SPEAKER_01: so successful that everybody, of course, started asking right at the end,
11:24
SPEAKER_01: when is the next one? And I didn't plan for a next one.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: So it was one of those things where, you know,
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I think May of that first year is when I did the next one.
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SPEAKER_01: And this was still just me running the whole thing behind the scenes.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: And then come October, you know, things got, you know,
11:44
SPEAKER_01: bigger or were a lot bigger at that point.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And that was when I did what was known as the first indulgence horror writing challenge.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: And that kind of was the template for what I'm doing now was that first challenge
11:57
SPEAKER_01: in October of 2025.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that was the point where things were so big.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: And I had introduced like a scoring system and brackets and all these fun metrics.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: It was just a lot for one person, like a lot.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And that was when Leron Haywood reached out to me and was like, hey,
12:17
SPEAKER_01: this looks like a lot of work. Like, how are you doing this behind the scenes?
12:19
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, it's just me.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just me up all night with my dogs wishing they could run a spreadsheet.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly. And so Leron was like, all right, well, let me jump in and help you.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: And they absolutely did.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And they donated their time and they helped me get a more automated system in place.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward past that,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: by the time we came around to our second Flash Fiction February,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: JM Gooding had created an entire website platform called Scriptorum that he made
12:49
SPEAKER_01: as a response to seeing everybody doing these challenges.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And he wanted a way for people to have like a platform where they could host
12:54
SPEAKER_01: the challenge, where they could collect entries,
12:56
SPEAKER_01: basically like a turnkey solution for any and all kind of writing events.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: And that was amazing as well.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: And again, he just donated his time and just created that from scratch.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, obviously, you know, I was like, yeah, I want to use that.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like the next evolution of what we're doing here.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the rest is history.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: We've done, I think, at least three,
13:19
SPEAKER_01: maybe four challenges since then using Scriptorum, you know,
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Leron and JM Gooding helping out us three on the team.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it was one of those things where, like I said,
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I never planned on it being more than just a one-off thing.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: It was just a fun little thing that I wanted to do in February.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: But it ended up being so successful that it's like, okay, now how do we scale this?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: How do we make it bigger?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: How do we make it more interesting?
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And then obviously, I'm notoriously bad at asking for help.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: So it was really fortunate that JM Gooding and Leron kind of stepped in.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: We're like, hey, we're here to help.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And obviously at that point, I welcomed the help entirely.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's incredible.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's awesome, Jam.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's just so Substack, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: I feel like people just,
14:07
SPEAKER_00: they really are like willing to help out and connect,
14:13
SPEAKER_00: you know, it's about connecting and connecting.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think sometimes you feel like you connect with someone, then you go,
14:19
SPEAKER_00: do they want something in return?
14:20
SPEAKER_00: But there's a sort of like a natural ecosystem where you do for them,
14:24
SPEAKER_00: they do for you, and it all kind of like comes out in the wash, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's not, it's sort of not like a quid pro quo situation, you know?
14:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's good and amazing.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to recognize everyone that's here.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: All of you, thank you so much for joining us.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And feel free to drop questions or comments in the chats, and I'll try to get to them.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: JM Gooding says, third event, fourth, if you add up power prompts.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's right. Yeah, three major events.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And then Scriptorm also has been hosting my weekly power-up prompts is what they're called.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Those are like every weekend I post one of those when I'm not doing a big horror
15:02
SPEAKER_01: or other genre challenge. It's like a weekly thing. Yeah.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: That's all scriptorum though. Yeah.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: It's impressive stuff.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, people on Substack, you know, they're just so hungry.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Like they're hungry for an audience.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're hungry for readers.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: They're hungry for validation.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And that can come in the form of just comments, likes.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: But also like, you know, winning something is really, it's like really exciting.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: Like I entered a contest on Substack, and I won.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: And there probably weren't that many people that entered, but who cares?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: It's still exciting.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's just a real honor.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: And I love that people want to engage with the community that way.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: So do you think
15:51
SPEAKER_00: that the way you put the prompts out there and all of the things
15:55
SPEAKER_00: that you offer people, is that sort of meant to help people's creativity or Like,
16:02
SPEAKER_00: is it about engagement?
16:03
SPEAKER_00: What's your sort of take on that?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you hoping people really get out of the, you know, what you have to learn?
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so for me, it's one of those things where I feel very strongly
16:15
SPEAKER_01: that there needs to be more creativity, more stories in the world, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And I also recognize that writers,
16:22
SPEAKER_01: regardless of your age or whenever you started writing,
16:27
SPEAKER_01: when you're first starting out, it can be a very fragile kind of setup.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: It's crucial that in those early stages of someone on their creative journey,
16:37
SPEAKER_01: that they are given encouragement and that they are recognized, you know,
16:41
SPEAKER_01: and that they kind of get that confidence that they need to keep going, right?
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Because I think the worst thing in the world is when I hear stories about people
16:49
SPEAKER_01: who are like, oh, well, you know, so-and-so said this, that,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: the other thing about one of these stories that I put out,
16:54
SPEAKER_01: and I was just so devastated that I never wrote again, you know?
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Truly heartbreaking when I hear that.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And again, it also comes from my experience and my journey as well.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: There's been times in my life where I felt like my writing was,
17:10
SPEAKER_01: I've always been a writer at heart,
17:12
SPEAKER_01: but there have been stretches in my life
17:13
SPEAKER_01: where I stopped writing I just don't want anybody else
17:20
SPEAKER_01: to go through that, honestly.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, there needs to be more stories in the world, more writers.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: I think everyone has some sort of creativity inside of them,
17:29
SPEAKER_01: and I just want to help them find it.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: And something else, too, that's just been really cool to see as well
17:35
SPEAKER_01: with these challenges is that a lot of writers will Say to themselves
17:40
SPEAKER_01: and tell others, you know, well, I just write fantasy. I don't write horror.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't do other stuff. And that's totally fine.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: You can have your genre, like absolutely.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: But I have seen, and I can think of a few people off the top of my head who,
17:50
SPEAKER_01: you know, kind of saw the prompts for like October, these horror prompts,
17:55
SPEAKER_01: and they have never done horror before, but they saw those and they were like,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: you know what? I'm just going to try it.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: And then next thing I know, this person is writing just incredible horror stories.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: They're having a great time.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: People are loving reading them.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: And again, they wouldn't have discovered that if they didn't have that opportunity
18:10
SPEAKER_01: to step outside of their comfort zone.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: And so I like being able to provide that for writers as well.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Because again, it's something where I myself have expanded into multiple genres
18:19
SPEAKER_01: because I just took the leap.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, let me just try it.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: And when I was a ghostwriter, obviously, I would take on any paid work that I could get.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: So I was writing all kinds of different things in all kinds of genres.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think, I think there's something special about, you know, again,
18:34
SPEAKER_01: like having that opportunity to sort of try out different things as a writer
18:38
SPEAKER_01: and grow as a creative.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's so cool to see.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it's very inspiring for me as well.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Like I love to see it.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think that comes across, like if it seems like there's a lot of joy, you know,
18:49
SPEAKER_00: in your community and a lot of fun, like it doesn't ever come across as like some,
18:54
SPEAKER_00: like people are taking themselves too seriously, you know, like, I mean, to me,
18:59
SPEAKER_00: creativity is about, like,
19:01
SPEAKER_00: expression and just trying new things and experimenting
19:06
SPEAKER_00: because you really don't know what you're going to be good at. Right.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: So you actually buy it.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Because, I mean, when I started writing, I was just strictly a poet.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I wrote poetry from the time I was really young.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: And then in college, I read poetry.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: It was, like, very serious, you know,
19:23
SPEAKER_00: going to these coffee shops and reading my really embarrassing poems.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, later, like when I started traveling,
19:33
SPEAKER_00: I started writing these really long letters home, like emails.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: But they were almost like essays because like I was trying to explain the culture in Ecuador.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of realized like, oh, these are like, these are essays.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: This is travel writing.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: So I really started to get into that, you know, so...
19:49
SPEAKER_00: I think people have to just kind of pay attention to what's around them
19:53
SPEAKER_00: and reaching out with your writing is kind of what I think of it as.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: It's like reaching out and trying something.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: It can be so rewarding.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: It's awesome that you have this venue for your people.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And like, I cannot imagine a world, you know, obviously,
20:16
SPEAKER_01: when I first met you on Substack,
20:17
SPEAKER_01: and I was reading some of the posts that you were doing of like your memoirs
20:21
SPEAKER_01: and stuff like that, the essays, like you said.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine a world where those don't exist.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: So it feels like they've always been there and that's always been a part of you
20:30
SPEAKER_01: as a creative.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: And so it's just another example of why it's so important to take that leap
20:34
SPEAKER_01: into trying new things as a creative because, like I said,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: the world would be worse off without your work in that regard.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that you gave that a shot.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's time for a quick commercial break now that you brought it up
20:47
SPEAKER_00: because those are the days that I was writing did turn into a book.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: I published it in September.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So anybody that's interested,
20:56
SPEAKER_00: it's sort of like travel writing slash spiritual memoir slash book.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: It's recovery memoir.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot going on in here and it's, it's really good.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: It's gotten a lot of good reviews.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: So you can check out States of Matter and like read some of the chapters on my, um,
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Substack and get more information there if you're interested.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: But, um, I have many times felt like, oh, I should, should do Bradley's prompts.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Like just try horror because, um, it's not really something like that I read,
21:26
SPEAKER_00: but to me, horror is really like, It's just so much about suspense, right?
21:32
SPEAKER_00: It's so much about like building and that is like,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: that's such a skill for a writer to have.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Like grabbing the reader's attention and keeping them, you know,
21:44
SPEAKER_00: keeping the suspense and the tension building is like,
21:47
SPEAKER_00: you need that for no matter what you write.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: So horror feels like such
21:53
SPEAKER_00: a great genre to just help you in any type of writing you want to do.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Plus it's fun.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: But I, do you, well, I kind of wanted to pivot to another,
22:05
SPEAKER_00: something else you're doing on Substack that I am very interested
22:09
SPEAKER_00: in because I've done a lot of meditation and I've done a lot of yoga and things like
22:15
SPEAKER_00: that and also related to creativity.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: So I saw that you've been, you know, you have your second podcast with the Dream,
22:26
SPEAKER_00: what's it called again, Dream?
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Dream Drafts.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Dream Drafts, yes, perfect.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: So what's what motivated you to want to start this and, you know,
22:35
SPEAKER_00: kind of what's the response been like?
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Have you had people really benefiting from it?
22:41
SPEAKER_00: How's that going?
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate you asking.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: So Dream Drafts has been around for about 18 episodes now,
22:47
SPEAKER_01: but the idea actually goes back all the way to the relative beginning of my time
22:51
SPEAKER_01: on Substack.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I have been someone who over the course of my life,
22:56
SPEAKER_01: I've become very passionate about like mental health awareness.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And of course, that led me to discover mindfulness and kind of handling some
23:04
SPEAKER_01: of my own struggles with mental health.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: And obviously meditation is a part of that.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: So something that I did shortly after starting
23:12
SPEAKER_01: on Substack was I started this article series
23:15
SPEAKER_01: that I called Mindful Monday Checkpoints.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And the idea was that each week I would do,
23:21
SPEAKER_01: I would pick sort of a theme and I would pick a quote, you know,
23:24
SPEAKER_01: just from the vast internet, pick a quote that was relevant to that theme.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And just, it was an article that was meant to just encourage like a pause,
23:33
SPEAKER_01: a second to like catch your breath, like as you get into the week,
23:35
SPEAKER_01: because I always joke that Mondays are never the start of a week.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: It's just picking up where you left off.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just a race that never ends.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: So the articles were meant to be a way to sort of like hit the pause button
23:46
SPEAKER_01: and just think about something besides what you're stressed out about. Right.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And it was a way to practice mindfulness.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And so those articles went on for nearly 30 weeks or so, I want to say,
23:55
SPEAKER_01: before I ended up kind of playing with the idea because I myself listened to a lot
24:00
SPEAKER_01: of like meditation podcasts and stuff like that.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: And obviously at this point, I'd already been doing my main podcast for a while.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: So I got the idea.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what if I turn those articles into an audio experience?
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Because then I could bring in like an actual guided meditation and make it
24:13
SPEAKER_01: a little bit more of like a mindful experience with like multi-sensory sort
24:18
SPEAKER_01: of input.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: And so that's where the idea for Dream Drafts came from.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: And the title is, of course, a reference to my other podcast, Saved as Draft.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, just kind of keeping with the writing theme.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Keeping your branding going.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Exactly. Yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And...
24:33
SPEAKER_01: But that one's been really successful.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: It's just 10 to 15 minutes each week on Mondays that I post them.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: So it really is kind of a converted version of those Mindful Monday articles.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: But the setup is very similar.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: There's kind of a theme or a topic and it's always connected in some way,
24:49
SPEAKER_01: shape or form to writing your creativity.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Like that's the audience that I'm trying to reach.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: And again, I feel like there's a lot of struggle, at least for myself,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: with how chaotic life can be and how chaotic the real world is.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of distractions.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: And so in my mind as a creative,
25:07
SPEAKER_01: mindfulness has huge benefits for allowing you to kind of silence the noise
25:11
SPEAKER_01: and focus on being creative, right?
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And so the idea with the podcast is to give you that opportunity
25:17
SPEAKER_01: to just literally shut out the noise, put on a pair of headphones,
25:21
SPEAKER_01: you get some guided meditation,
25:22
SPEAKER_01: and then you get that classic kind of handpicked quote and some discussion around
25:27
SPEAKER_01: the topic.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: It's only 10 to 15 minutes each week, so it's not too long.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: But I feel really strongly about the formula and I've gotten a lot of really good feedback too.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: There's definitely been comments.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: People saying, you know, that like it was super relaxing for them,
25:42
SPEAKER_01: that it was a great thing that they look forward to, you know,
25:44
SPEAKER_01: to kind of like unwind after the work day.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to on Substack here, Johanna C. Eshwald.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: She did a virtual writer's retreat a few weeks back and she recommended dream drafts
25:58
SPEAKER_01: to everybody at the retreat as a way to, again,
26:01
SPEAKER_01: sort of get into the mindset to be creative.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And that was really cool to see.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciated that.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it feels like, you know,
26:08
SPEAKER_01: I think at this point the podcast in total has just crossed 2,000 downloads.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: So nothing to really sneeze at.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's not bad.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean, it's been steadily growing.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: And like I said, the feedback has been really nice.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: It seems like it's doing exactly what it's meant to do.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And that makes me happy to see.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, like everything I do, you know, I...
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I want to entertain, I want to tell great stories and stuff,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: but I also genuinely want to show up for other creatives and help them
26:39
SPEAKER_01: in meaningful ways.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: And so that's really what it comes down to.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because your publication is called The Writer's Journey,
26:45
SPEAKER_00: and The Writer's Journey encompasses more than just writing, right?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: You have to be in the right headspace to actually receive and to be able to produce.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And I thinkSubstack itself can be very distracting and very overwhelming.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: So to be able to have like to, you know, go to your Substack and say, oh,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: let me just like tune out for a little bit and have a silent moment.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: That's really helpful because I think silence is hard
27:23
SPEAKER_00: for people, you know,
27:24
SPEAKER_00: because when things get silent,
27:27
SPEAKER_00: oftentimes like Voices that they might not want to hear start popping up.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: So I think anyone who wants to start, like try meditation,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: like mindfulness and like a guided meditation,
27:40
SPEAKER_00: like the kind of thing you're doing is like a really good place to start
27:42
SPEAKER_00: because it's, it's not totally silent,
27:45
SPEAKER_00: but it's definitely like leading you to this like relaxing place that will help you.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: And because I remember I've done a few, few 10 days silent meditations with Pasana.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's like 10 full days.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Like you're, you're there.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: No, you don't ever talk to anyone.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: You do, you, you meditate for like 10 hours a day.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. It's, it's really intense.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. It sounds like it. Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Your brain, like it's really interesting to see what happens with your brain
28:16
SPEAKER_00: because essentially your mind is just like recycling, like it's thoughts, thoughts,
28:21
SPEAKER_00: thoughts, thoughts. But when, once you have no input, like
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Then you can really see like how much your mind is just like recycling old thoughts
28:31
SPEAKER_00: because nothing new is coming in.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: So eventually like things just like slow down to the point where you like,
28:37
SPEAKER_00: you have nothing, like there's nothing to think about, you know?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like this, this, um, opening up and like you have this, this incredible space.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And like, I wouldn't say like I had like these big creative, um,
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Moments or anything, but it definitely like it made me understand my mind in a way
28:56
SPEAKER_00: that I never would have if I hadn't gone through that.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: We certainly don't have to do 10 days of silent meditation to get to get that.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: But it is it's definitely helpful.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: It does help you know your mind, helps you relax.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: And because I interviewed Sherry Tavares like last week.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And she, I don't know if you know her, she's here on Substack.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And she talked about, you know, having, she did this writer's retreat.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And it was like the first time that she's been able to like have that quiet
29:33
SPEAKER_00: and that silence to actually hear the voice that, you know,
29:37
SPEAKER_00: is her muse and what to write next.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like, it's just so important and essential.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad that you're doing it.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to pivot a little bit more. Let me see how much time we have. Okay.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: I have a meeting at my son's school tonight.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: So I have 15 more minutes, but I did want to get to something.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: I didn't check with you about this first and I couldn't really tell
30:03
SPEAKER_00: from your Substack, but I remember a while ago, like I checked to see like,
30:08
SPEAKER_00: what is this paid subscription look like and all this.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: And basically you were just like, you can pay me, but everything's free.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Paying was just people would pay you essentially like a donation.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: So how is that going now?
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, do you feel like, you know, it's been two years?
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any different structure now?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you feel about, you know, the paid subscriptions and structure and?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good question because if I'm being completely honest,
30:39
SPEAKER_01: what my dream is is that one day I want to find a way
30:43
SPEAKER_01: to monetize this creative thing that I'm doing, this community.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: Right now, as I mentioned to you before we went live,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: I have my full-time day job and then I basically have a second full-time job
30:54
SPEAKER_01: on Substack.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: I would love to one day just have the one job where I'm working with the community
30:58
SPEAKER_01: and being creative.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's interesting trying to figure out how to get there.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: As of right now, paid subscriptions are open and it really is just like a, you know,
31:08
SPEAKER_01: you love what I'm doing and you want to support it, you know, like this,
31:11
SPEAKER_01: just as simple as that, right?
31:14
SPEAKER_01: But I've experimented with some things in the past and I have a few ideas
31:18
SPEAKER_01: on things I could try in the future.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: My mindset is that, Because I'm here to genuinely help other creatives,
31:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like at this point, I've established a strong baseline
31:29
SPEAKER_01: of what people can expect from me.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: And so my personal rule is that I will never paywall what has always been free.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm going to paywall anything, it's going to have to be new.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, it's also going to obviously have to be valuable.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: And so a few things have come to mind, you know,
31:46
SPEAKER_01: just like kind of discussions I've had with other writers, ideas of my own.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: For example, one thing that I would love to do at some point is have some sort
31:55
SPEAKER_01: of app or something that contains all the prompts that I've ever done
31:58
SPEAKER_01: where you can like kind of search and find things or create your own prompts
32:02
SPEAKER_01: by piecing things together.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: That's an idea that I've played around with.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Again, just haven't really executed on it yet.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: But That's something that's brand new and it leverages what I've already done
32:11
SPEAKER_01: and it makes it available in a new way that I think is valuable.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: And then obviously, being that I've been a professional and creative writer now
32:19
SPEAKER_01: for over a decade, when I first started on Substack,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: I did a lot of in-depth articles around different creative topics like setting
32:27
SPEAKER_01: the scope for your story or how to promote your work, stuff like that.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: So I've also dabbled with the idea of trying to set up some sort
32:36
SPEAKER_01: of like Formal paid sort of writing course around like different topics,
32:40
SPEAKER_01: maybe bring in guest speakers and stuff like that.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Like have like an event of it sort of thing.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: And then again, it's adding to what I'm already doing.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: It's never like just gating things for the sake of gating them.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not interested
32:53
SPEAKER_00: in that. Yeah.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it works that well.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And you're not really getting that much out of a paid subscription.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I think the model of like what you're talking about, like you build a,
33:05
SPEAKER_00: A course and you sell the course, you know,
33:08
SPEAKER_00: you're going to make more money and you probably from doing that.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: And it seems more, it seems more, not more honest, but it's like, I built this course.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: This is really valuable information.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: If you guys want it, this is how much it is.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's just a natural thing.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: And you have such a big community of people that know you, that trust you,
33:28
SPEAKER_00: that know like what they're going to get is good.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: If you're giving away everything that you give away, And, you know,
33:36
SPEAKER_00: what you put together as a course is probably most likely going to be worth it
33:39
SPEAKER_00: to them.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Another great example, too, that I wanted to bring up is...
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Another writer on here by the name of Tamsyn G,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: she hosted a writing challenge where there was an entry fee,
33:53
SPEAKER_01: but all of that money went into like a prize pool.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: So it had like a panel of judges and it was very professionally done.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: It was really, really cool.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: I actually participated in it.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: I think I placed somewhere in the top 10 or 20 or something like that, but it was really fun.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that was a way to generate sort of revenue and While also having
34:10
SPEAKER_01: the excitement of the event.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Part of it, too, is that as part of your entry fee,
34:15
SPEAKER_01: you were sent detailed feedback on your entry from the judges on the panel.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: So you get something out of it. Right.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: In addition to potentially winning the grand prize, an actual cash prize.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's like that.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's like how do you how do you offer something
34:30
SPEAKER_01: where it's like it's very open and honest about what you're getting
34:33
SPEAKER_01: and there's value to it.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I don't want to take the trust that I've built for granted, right?
34:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, if I'm going to offer something where you have to give me money,
34:43
SPEAKER_01: I want it to be very clear what you're getting and why it's worth paying for, right?
34:49
SPEAKER_01: That's super important to me as well.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, another thing I think that would be natural is just access to you, you know?
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Because...
34:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, having writing sessions or writing workshops type of thing, you know,
35:04
SPEAKER_00: which doesn't necessarily take a lot of planning.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Just, you know, coming along with, like, here are the prompts.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want to go into the paid community, go deeper.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll write with you.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll go through this with you and, you know, you'll get a little whatever.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think there's a lot of ways you can do it.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: But, I mean, it seems like you've gotten pretty far into, like,
35:26
SPEAKER_00: giving – Giving away what most people on Substack wouldn't even dream of.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: But you are, you're getting something out of it.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: You're getting the joy of it.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: You're getting a lot of readers and listeners.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: I've been working on one single major novel project for 10 years now, actually.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: So the entire time that I stopped being a ghostwriter,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: I've been working on this one project off and on.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: And so something that, like you said,
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm getting out of this entire kind of situation here is that now I have a platform
36:06
SPEAKER_01: that I can point to when this book is ready and I try to shop it around.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: I can say, hey, I've got all these people who are already fans of my work and fans
36:15
SPEAKER_01: of the universe. Where this book is set, you know?
36:17
SPEAKER_01: And so on and so forth.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: And so again, it's – I'm super grateful for the community and I would never want
36:25
SPEAKER_01: to take advantage of anyone by trying to just make a quick buck, you know? Yeah.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: But it's like you said,
36:31
SPEAKER_01: there's value in just having that community in general
36:37
SPEAKER_01: and having that to point to.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: And again, I've gained so much inspiration, so much happiness,
36:46
SPEAKER_01: so much purpose and drive just from being here and interacting with other creatives.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: I know it sounds cheesy, but you can't put a price on that. You really can't.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there's something about the dynamic, right?
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a teacher, I'm a high school teacher,
37:01
SPEAKER_00: and I'm not working in the classroom right now.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm subbing, which is another thing. It's another story.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: One thing I always miss is the dynamic, right?
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Because you meet these kids and you have a whole year to get to know them
37:14
SPEAKER_00: and to teach them something, right?
37:17
SPEAKER_00: And you go through so much with them.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like a roller coaster.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's just the dynamic I get so addicted to.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Like when I'm not teaching, I'm like, damn, I need to get back in the classroom.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Right. Because it's so challenging, but it's so fun, you know?
37:32
SPEAKER_00: You have these days where you're like, oh, I hate teaching.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, get me out of here.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: And the other days where you're just like crying because the kid learned something
37:38
SPEAKER_00: and, you know, gave you this nice note.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: So I think that you, you know, it's a similar idea with your community.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Like what you're getting in return is this dynamic of like shared creativity,
37:51
SPEAKER_00: shared intention, you know, the shared space that you've created.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like people in your community really have like – They have ownership
38:01
SPEAKER_00: of it as well. Like it doesn't feel like it's just like, you know,
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Bradley show and everyone just kind of, you know, doing what you say.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely a bonus.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, for sure.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: And that balance is really important to me. Absolutely. Yeah.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, I love it when people check out my stuff and when I get awesome comments and feedback.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we all enjoy, you know, like,
38:26
SPEAKER_01: knowing that readers and other writers are enjoying what we've done.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: But it is super important to me that I kind of, you know,
38:33
SPEAKER_01: make that space to promote others, to promote other work,
38:36
SPEAKER_01: to highlight other writers.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, that's just as important to me as anything else.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's...
38:44
SPEAKER_00: That in and of itself is, you know, why people trust you, too.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: All right, what else? I have one, I think I have one last question.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Or did you have any questions?
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Or is there something you wanted to talk about?
38:58
SPEAKER_00: About five more minutes.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any questions prepared at all.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: I was looking at the message you sent me to see if we covered all the topics.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the resources. Yeah,
39:10
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about the resources.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but yeah, that was like, what did you decide to give away?
39:14
SPEAKER_00: We already went over and went through that.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right, right.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know what I wanted just to say.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: So I've, this is something like creativity,
39:26
SPEAKER_00: like finding a community and having that shared creative space,
39:30
SPEAKER_00: something that I've really wanted to try to do.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: And I have to an extent, but I have not been as successful as you have.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's because I'm, I do, I did try to like,
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Put the paid sort of tab on there,
39:44
SPEAKER_00: which is less meaningful or less desirable for people to want to come in.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: And I also haven't been like totally consistent.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's something I noticed about you.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Like you're consistent, like you show up every day, like it's your job.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: But what would you say to like a newer Substack, Substacker that wants to, you know,
40:06
SPEAKER_00: really build a community? What would you say?
40:09
SPEAKER_00: What's your advice?
40:11
SPEAKER_01: That person may or may not be me.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: I was going to say consistency is really important,
40:17
SPEAKER_01: but I think just as important as consistency is understanding your own situation,
40:23
SPEAKER_01: what you can handle, and what you can do long term.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people that I've seen come and go on Substack...
40:32
SPEAKER_01: I, I, they, they show up, they, they get super excited and I love that energy,
40:36
SPEAKER_01: but they burn out really fast because they take on too much
40:39
SPEAKER_01: and they can't sustain it. Right.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: And I was also guilty of that.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I had to scale back a little bit, you know, after my first kind of six months here,
40:46
SPEAKER_01: let's say is when I really kind of started to lock in the longterm schedule. Yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Understanding what schedule works for you,
40:53
SPEAKER_01: what you're going to be able to be consistent with is so, so important.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's finding that balance because that's different for everybody, right?
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, the other side of it that I'll recommend in terms of community and becoming
41:05
SPEAKER_01: a part of it and building community is one of the first posts that I did
41:09
SPEAKER_01: on Substack was a little mini challenge that I called the one a day challenge.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: And it was very simple.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: It was just I asked other writers every day when they get up on Substack,
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Find someone else's work, either someone you're a fan of or someone brand new to you
41:23
SPEAKER_01: or mix it up, right?
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Find one thing every day that you can sit down and read from top to bottom.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: Give it a like, give it a comment, restack it.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: One, two, three, right?
41:32
SPEAKER_01: And just do that once a day.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: And if you start doing that every day, you will meet people.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: You will have conversations.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: You will connect.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: And you'll start to build that community around you. It's as simple as that.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: You just have to do that and you have to be consistent on top of it.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: And in my mind, it's just a matter of when, not if at that point.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Right. Yeah.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And we we talked a little bit about, you know,
41:54
SPEAKER_00: how there's in some sometimes it feels like there's a revolving door of Substack,
41:58
SPEAKER_00: you know, like people kind of come into your orbit and then they go out
42:03
SPEAKER_00: and they come back.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And like, do you do you think like do you do you have issues with the algorithm?
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you deal with the algorithm or do you just not even think about it?
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I haven't had a whole lot of issues with the algorithm.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: I will say that there's definitely people who have come and gone,
42:23
SPEAKER_01: but it's usually like one of those things where they have reached out to me
42:26
SPEAKER_01: and been like, hey, I'm stepping back for X, Y, Z reasons or whatever.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: And it's totally obviously understandable, you know.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: And again, sometimes people just get burned out and they need to take a step back
42:34
SPEAKER_01: for that reason.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: So I've seen that come and go as far as the rhythm of Substack, if you will.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, I'm very intentional with how I engage with my feed.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: I obviously comment on a lot of things. I read a lot of things.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: I like a lot of things.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: But I usually try to be, again, intentional.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: I'll take a look at who I'm engaging with and what kind of stuff they do.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: And kind of keeping that in the back of my mind,
42:59
SPEAKER_01: because the algorithm obviously is going to respond to what I engage with. Right.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm intentional with that from the get go, then more than likely I will see,
43:08
SPEAKER_01: you know, things that I want to see right there within that sphere that I'm trying
43:12
SPEAKER_01: to be in. Um.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: And obviously, like anybody else on the internet, I've had to block people.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: I've had to mute different things or whatever.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: But overall, it's been a very positive experience.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: And I attribute that a lot to just, again, being kind of genuine with how I engage things.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'll be in a hurry, just scrolling and just checking in,
43:32
SPEAKER_01: see if anything's happening around Substack.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I'm just dropping likes on stuff that makes me laugh or things
43:37
SPEAKER_01: that I find interesting.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: But I do try to stop and leave comments.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: If I ever read anything from anyone,
43:44
SPEAKER_01: My personal policy is that I will at least restack it because that's, again,
43:48
SPEAKER_01: telling the algorithm, hey, I like this.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I want to see more of this. Right.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And that further contributes to a more curated feed.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Yeah. And I wish more people did that because I don't know
43:59
SPEAKER_00: if I think people sometimes engage with Substack the way they engage
44:03
SPEAKER_00: with other social media.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's not really the same.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: No.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, it really doesn't cost that much to like something and restack
44:12
SPEAKER_01: No, it really doesnít.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: I think people are like, oh, then it'll be on my feed or, oh, you know, like, who cares?
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Your feed is like, it's moving all the time and you might want it on your feed,
44:23
SPEAKER_00: like at some point.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's how I am.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, if I read something, like if something stops my scroll and I read,
44:30
SPEAKER_00: even if I skim it, I will definitely like it.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: Most likely comment at least something and restack it because I mean, That's the whole point.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Like we're out here, you know, it's a grind, it's a hustle.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: And why would you not be willing to show people that you're on the other end, like reading?
44:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we know that our work is going in people's inbox.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: And I know for sure that I have family members and friends that read my stuff
44:57
SPEAKER_00: that just never comment.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: One of them is my husband.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: I get so mad at him.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I take his phone and I'll just go through and start commenting.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of sad.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's very supportive, but he's just not a Substack person, right?
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people aren't.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't even know what Substack is, you know?
45:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's hard.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think, you know, I'm so glad that you have,
45:26
SPEAKER_00: that you've maintained it and you've grown, like you've grown it.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: And I hope that your future projects work out well.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: And are you in the middle of a...
45:36
SPEAKER_00: thing contest, not a contest.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: What do you, the prompt challenge right now we
45:40
SPEAKER_01: are in the final days
45:42
SPEAKER_01: of our October challenge.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: So we had prompts all through October and then, um, up until November 7th here,
45:48
SPEAKER_01: we're leaving everything open for people to catch up and do any final submissions.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I'll check them out. Yeah.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: So beginning of next week is when I'll actually tally the scores along with my, my,
45:58
SPEAKER_01: mine, my two team members.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we'll announce the winners.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we're on the tail end of this one Okay.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Awesome. Yep.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: All right. Well, what else do you have going on?
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any last words?
46:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to get off here.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: So obviously every week on Mondays, you've got Dream Drafts, my one podcast.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: Every Saturday, you've got Saved as Draft.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: If you're not already subscribed to me and you're in the chat here,
46:23
SPEAKER_01: I would love you to jump in and do a free subscription because my subscriber chat,
46:28
SPEAKER_01: we do all kinds of threads in there every week where you can contribute.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: You can share links.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: A lot of which gets featured on the podcast.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: So it's a great way to kind of just get your name out there.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: It's free promotion.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I got all that going on.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: And then trying to finish that novel that I mentioned.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling myself that I'm going to finish it by the end of the month here.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm already 50,000 words into it.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's not that crazy to think it could be done if I just put my mind to it.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: It can be done.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: And I would be happy to be an art creator if you want. I appreciate it.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Is it sci-fi? Is it pure sci-fi?
47:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like sci-fi slash cosmic horror.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: It's like kind of a blend of the two. I think you would like it. Yeah.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah. I'm finished.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: Right now, I'm super busy because I'm finishing my thesis.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm graduating in December.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: So once January hits, I'm gonna have a lot of time.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: So let's say you finish it by January.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: And then you'll be ready.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay. Got it.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Perfect. It's perfect. Okay, cool. All right.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, I, I do second that, um, you know,
47:27
SPEAKER_00: that your chat is really fun and there's a lot going on there and, um, yeah,
47:31
SPEAKER_00: people should definitely join.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to subscribe and it's free and, um, you have, you'll get a lot out of it.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for talking to me.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: And, um, again, I'm Michelle Ray and I have, uh, States of Matter.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: I would love it if you check out my sub stack, check out my book.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's self-published because I, I chose to self-publish it.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: And one of the, one of the, um, Issues, problems, drawbacks of self-publishing is distribution.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: It's just very hard to get people to see a book and to find readers.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: So I would love it if you guys would check it out.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, check us both out.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to see you.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for having me. This was wonderful.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a good time. Thank you.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Bye, everyone.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming.
48:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.