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What if? · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:02
  On in the grip of oppression.
• 0:06
  I fought for my liberty.
• 0:10
  I paid with the blood of my people.
• 0:14
  Freedom has never been free.
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  Now my doors always open.
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  To dreamers and prisoners.
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  When I'm attacked, I protect and deep prison.
• 0:35
  Because my name is America.
• 0:38
  Hello everyone and welcome.
• 0:40
  Happy Spring.
• 0:41
  This is Karen Schoen, and you are listening to the Prism of America's Education brought to you on the America Outloud dot News Network with our wonderful sponsor, the wellness company.
• 0:54
  Please check them out and make sure that you are well because nobody else is going to do it for you.
• 1:00
  Only you can make sure you are well.
• 1:04
  Folks, I said happy spring because we have just changed, and we are now in the spring equinox, um, which will help the weather change and probably people's attitudes.
• 1:16
  People usually wake up and get excited in spring.
• 1:20
  We're getting rid of the gray dingy winter.
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  And it is uh always wonderful to watch the weather change.
• 1:29
  Oh my goodness, it changes.
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  How about that?
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  Um, and change it has, especially with President Trump, who actually went to school when science was taught and learned that carbon dioxide is necessary for life.
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  It's not a poisonous gas.
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  Uh, there are many gases that we need for our life, but carbon dioxide is probably the most important, as it is in everything we do.
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  Um, President Trump has made some wonderful changes, and I say that he has gotten us out of the what if era.
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  What does that mean?
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  Well, if we go back and we look at some of Obama's policies, they were not real policies.
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  What he did was have NOAA or the other agencies plug things into the computer in a what if scenario, and then come back and say, Oh, you gotta live by that because this is what's gonna happen, making it gospel instead of what if.
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  And an experfect example of that is the fishing industry, as I live in Florida, and many, many little fishing village towns were closed because recreational fishing was almost out of existence, especially the red snappers.
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  Um, and I remember working with several captains, and they said, Karen, the way it works is they go to the computer and they say, what if we lost uh a hundred thousand pounds of red snapper?
• 3:13
  What would happen?
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  Oh my goodness, we would have no red snapper, they would be an endangered species.
• 3:20
  Well, Obama came back and said, guess what, folks?
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  Red Snapper is an endangered species, and therefore you can't fish for it anymore.
• 3:29
  And we're going to close the fishing industry for Red Snapper, and you can only go for two weekends uh a year for red snapper fishing.
• 3:39
  Well, we were living by what if policies, and that never works.
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  So I have asked a good friend of the show, Sterling Burnett from the Heartland Institute, who is also the director of the Arthur V.
• 3:55
  Robinson Center on Climate and Environmental Policies.
• 4:00
  He has studied that.
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  To join me today, and let us go through some of the new things that President Trump has done that will help us in the future.
• 4:11
  Sterling, thank you so much for joining me.
• 4:13
  It's always wonderful to have you on the show.
• 4:16
  I always enjoy it.
• 4:17
  Thanks for having me back.
• 4:18
  Uh, yeah, we live in exciting times.
• 4:20
  Yes, we certainly do.
• 4:22
  One of the things that I think people are very confused about was what started the ball rolling, and that was called the Chevron Deference uh Act or um, but it was the Chevron Deference.
• 4:38
  What is that?
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  What are all these words?
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  What do they mean?
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  And how did that affect us and change things and change the way we think?
• 4:46
  Well, Chevron Deference, it actually wasn't an act, it wasn't an act of Congress, it was uh it was a court ruling.
• 4:52
  Um, in the case in a case called uh I think it was Chevron, might have been Chevron v EPA, but I'm not sure.
• 5:00
  Um, and in that case, uh, it was a matter of science that was at question, and uh Chevron was suing to overturn a decision.
• 5:12
  And um the courts had to decide how they had to decide how to decide.
• 5:17
  You know, the science was being tested, and so the courts made a ruling and they they deferred to the EPA's uh authority, and uh at the time the Supreme Court upheld that, saying, yeah, look, uh courts are not scientific bodies, and so we defer to the ruling agencies unless they have science that is uh demonstrably way out of the mainstream.
• 5:43
  Um you should assume that that they're doing what is right.
• 5:48
  Now that that ruling lasted for for what was basically the the powerful ruling for two decades, uh controlling ruling over numerous cases.
• 6:00
  Cases would come up, didn't have to be oil and gas, it could be any kind of case, but if an agency made a ruling, uh often the court would say, well, uh they they'd reference Chevron, the Chevron case and say, we're deferring to the agency because the Supreme Court has said this is what you're supposed to do if the science is contested.
• 6:20
  Umless something really unusual, you know, unless they're using really, really bad science.
• 6:26
  Well, uh that Chevron deference is no more.
• 6:31
  The courts, uh, the Supreme Court uh a few years back.
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  Uh actually, I think during early Biden, but maybe let late Trump.
• 6:41
  They a case came before them and they said we've gone too far with the Chevron deference.
• 6:46
  You really do need to make some kind of determinations as to whether uh the science that they are uh referencing is justified.
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  Uh you you you can't just defer just because the the uh agency says it doesn't mean they're using the best science.
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  You should have them do you should have some uh demonstrations, some evidence.
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  They should have to present some evidence rather than saying we well, we say it's good science, and so Chevron deference is no more.
• 7:16
  That's important because now courts uh you're able to go into court and say, not just say, well, yeah, the agency said this, but it's like, no, look, here's the science.
• 7:29
  Uh the agency is saying this, and it's wrong because the science says it's wrong.
• 7:35
  You can't just defer to what the agency says the science says.
• 7:40
  Well, that's quite interesting, especially when we know how corrupt the agencies are, and they're being paid off by the people who want that particular policy in place, like no carbon dioxide.
• 7:54
  How wrong was that one?
• 7:56
  Well, yeah, that's it.
• 7:57
  You know, it's like the agencies.
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  People talk about corruption.
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  Oh, they're being paid.
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  I don't think it's payment.
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  I mean, because the agency gets paid by the federal government.
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  What it is is power, it's mission creep by the agencies.
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  The EPA.
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  Pick your alphabet agency.
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  I don't want to pick just on the EPA.
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  The Forest Service, the Department of Education, Health and Human Services, they were all created to solve a problem.
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  Whether you think the federal government should have been in the business of solving those particular problems, you know, whether you think the constitution allows it, we can debate that.
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  But they were created to solve a problem, and not a single one of them, not one has ever solved the problem that they were uh created to solve.
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  Instead, rather than solving that problem, they have had mission creep.
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  Instead of focusing all the researchers on solving the problem they were meant to solve, they have found other problems that they say need solving.
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  And so they asked for bigger budgets and more power.
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  And that's what that's what happened.
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  You know, you mentioned CO2.
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  The endangerment finding that that's one of the big things, the biggest thing.
• 9:11
  Well, maybe not the biggest thing.
• 9:13
  Um, I think the biggest thing Trump has done, uh to briefly uh uh diverge, is he got us out of 60 different treaties and agreements, international agreements, all in one fell swoop.
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  More than 60, I think it was 66 on a single day back in mid-February.
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  The greatest single seizure of U.S.
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  sovereignty back from the UN and other international agencies in my lifetime.
• 9:44
  He said, no longer will these international agencies be able to tell us or dictate to us what standards we should have for all sorts of things.
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  And one of the things he got us out of was the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, which all these climate treaties and all the funding that we've given to the UN uh
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  For that for climate change.
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  That's gone now.
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  That's over.
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  Trump did that in one day.
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  Since then, the biggest thing he's done, and this is the biggest domestic policy issue is he's rescinded the what's called the endangerment finding.
• 10:15
  And um I don't want to stall you off if you have further questions, but I'll go, I'll go into that if you look at it.
• 10:24
  No, please do, because this is very important that we understand what his policy changes mean and how they will affect us.
• 10:33
  Okay, I just want to give you a chance to get a question because it's a little a little complicated.
• 10:38
  So uh back in 2007, uh Massachusetts sued the federal government, wanting them wanting to force them to uh update automobile standards for greenhouse gas emissions because greenhouse gas emissions were not regulated uh under the various statutes from automobile.
• 11:02
  Well, greenhouse gases at all weren't regulated under the Clean Air Act or any statute.
• 11:09
  This was tailpipe emissions from automobiles, and Massachusetts says you're not imposing restrictions on automobiles tailpop emissions for CO2 and other greenhouse gases, and we think you should under the Clean Air Act.
• 11:21
  And uh the Bush administration, that's who was in power at the time.
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  Um they said uh no, no, uh, we don't think we have the authority under the Clean Air Act to regulate tailpop emissions um uh for CO2.
• 11:37
  We've got other gases and we regulate those, but not CO2.
• 11:42
  And the Supreme Court in a ruling uh said, wait a minute, it was a contested ruling, it's five to four ruling.
• 11:50
  Uh and the majority's found that anything that is emitted into the air by humans is a pollutant.
• 11:59
  So when you exhale the CO2, you exhale as a pollutant.
• 12:03
  Uh the water vapor you put into the air is a pollutant.
• 12:08
  Uh get that water vapor, clouds.
• 12:11
  I'm just thinking clouds.
• 12:13
  How is that a pollutant?
• 12:15
  Clouds, any anybody, but it's anything humans emit.
• 12:19
  And they said, We have an expansive reading of the Clean Air Act.
• 12:24
  You're supposed to regulate and make air clean, not just regulate those those um chemicals that the Clean Air Act specifies you get to regulate.
• 12:35
  And so we say you have the power to regulate CO2 if you find it endangers human healthy environment.
• 12:42
  Uh the Bush administration basically ponded.
• 12:46
  They said, uh, no, we're not gonna do that.
• 12:50
  Uh we don't we'll we'll study it.
• 12:54
  We'll see, we'll see if it's in there.
• 12:56
  But then Obama comes in, and Obama comes in, and the first year in his EPA says, Oh, we find it it endangers CO2 endangers human healthy environment.
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  Now we have all this new power.
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  Um, and they didn't do an independent review of the science.
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  What they did is say, oh, well, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says it's endangered, it's a danger to us.
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  Not that it is a pollutant in the traditional sense.
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  You breathe it if you breathe it in, you're not dying.
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  Uh, it has to be much, much higher levels in the environment before it's toxic to human beings or or animals for that matter.
• 13:37
  Um, but because of climate change, it's causing dangerous climate change long term.
• 13:43
  Now, the Clean Air Act wasn't meant to look at broad issues, it was meant to look at emissions from power plants that or other factories that affect people's health today, not 200 years from now, not it indirectly 200 years from now because it might cause the seas to rise or something like that.
• 14:01
  It was this is making people sick now, and it was making people sick in identify people in identifiable areas we actually have control over.
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  So it wasn't meant to regulate um it wasn't problems in Africa, it was meant to prevent health problems in Pittsburgh, for instance.
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  So, but the EPA saw this as a great way to expand its power.
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  They issued the endangerment finding, and that's how we got to regulate automobile emissions.
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  Now we've been fighting over that ever since.
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  It's been tied up in court back and forth.
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  We gave California the right to set stricter standards.
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  We were putting the auto industry out of out of business.
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  But once it was on the books, as people like myself predicted, if it applies to automobile standards, it would also apply to factories and power plants.
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  And of course, that's precisely where Obama went with his clean power plant, shutting down coal.
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  And he told you when he ran for office, to be fair, Obama did not lie.
• 15:02
  Obama ran and he said, We're gonna put a coal plant out of business.
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  You invest in coal, you're gonna go out of business.
• 15:07
  Prices are gonna have to go higher because we're fighting climate change.
• 15:11
  He said that, and when he got into power, that's precisely what he did.
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  And he used the endangerment finding to justify it.
• 15:17
  Um the thing that always got me was that they never said, as you just said, this is gonna help you today.
• 15:26
  This is gonna be for 30 years from now or 40 years from now, knowing full well that the people in charge will never be around.
• 15:35
  And if it doesn't work like the majority, like all of the things that they told us never work, um, who remembers 30 years ago that our air was supposed to be clean 30 years from now.
• 15:49
  So they do things that are on purpose that make no sense.
• 15:54
  Yeah, well, but no, it makes perfect sense if it's what you're really trying to do is expand the power of government.
• 16:00
  If you if you want, if you're a bureaucrat and you want more levels of bureaucracy, you want higher funding, you want promotions, and you want more power over people over industries.
• 16:11
  You really don't understand.
• 16:13
  These guys at the EPA, they've never run a successful company, but they think they can tell you how to run yours.
• 16:18
  Um for them, it makes perfect sense.
• 16:24
  For for us, it's destroying the economy.
• 16:27
  It's it's limiting economic growth, it's making things every bit more expensive.
• 16:32
  The one of the reasons we have what we call the affordability crisis today is all these regulations, which are just hidden taxes imposed upon the economy.
• 16:41
  Yeah, I don't think people realize what that actually did to the automobile.
• 16:46
  They had to make them lighter, which of course made them less safe.
• 16:51
  Right.
• 16:51
  So you're doing one thing, but then it affects something else and makes the situation worse instead of better.
• 17:01
  Lighter, smaller, except what happened was you know, this is the funny thing.
• 17:08
  Um people figure out workarounds, right?
• 17:12
  So at one time in this country, back in the 70s, there was a vehicle that was fairly common.
• 17:18
  It's called the station wagon, a long car with multiple rows of seats and and and room in the back for storage.
• 17:28
  Um it disappeared, largely disappeared for about 20 years.
• 17:33
  Some of it's back now, but you don't see them like you used to.
• 17:37
  But at the same time, you didn't have something back in the 70s called a minivan, or you just had you had a couple of SUVs, but they weren't called that.
• 17:46
  They were called work utility vehicles.
• 17:49
  You had a couple of them that had already come out.
• 17:50
  The International Harvester Scout was the first.
• 17:53
  I think Ford Bronco was the second, maybe the Chevy Blazer and the Jeep um uh wagoneer.
• 18:00
  Uh, but they were just coming online.
• 18:04
  Mini vans hadn't even been discovered yet.
• 18:06
  Chrysler produced the first minivan.
• 18:08
  Why?
• 18:09
  Well, because they were large, and they were categorized not as cars, but light trucks, so they had a different fuel economy standard, so they could get fewer miles per gallon without having to pay a tax.
• 18:23
  And so many vans took off in popularity, and so did SUV.
• 18:26
  So, in one sense, the clean air laws for automobiles created a whole new class of vehicles that replace the sedan.
• 18:33
  There's a reason why so many auto companies don't even make large sedans anymore.
• 18:37
  People started buying SUVs.
• 18:39
  Why?
• 18:39
  They wanted the comfort of a sedan, but they couldn't get it at an affordable price because the taxes on it under the cafe standards.
• 18:46
  Well, EPA tried to foreclose that loophole with the CO2 standards that they applied across the boards.
• 18:53
  They treated light trucks and cars the same vis-a-vis CO2.
• 18:58
  Right.
• 18:58
  And what I what I remember, what I remember is when they started taking away those really comfortable sedans and replace them with little uh Volkswagen beat beetles, and we were supposed to, instead of being on a trip and enjoying the comfort of your car, you were crammed and forced to sit in a particular way that was all uncomfortable that you didn't want to drive.
• 19:30
  Maybe that was the whole thing.
• 19:31
  Well, that of course probably was they they they wanted to end uh automobile automobility, the freedom uh that Americans have almost uniquely to travel where they want when they want with an automobile because it's affordable in the gas.
• 19:45
  Relatively one second, I gotta let my dog out.
• 19:49
  Okay.
• 19:54
  Yes, and I remember as a child when we uh used to drive up to our summer.
• 20:00
  Cabin.
• 20:01
  Um, one of the things I enjoyed the most was being able to stretch out on the back seat.
• 20:07
  And my sister wasn't sitting on top of me, so I didn't have a reason to yell at her.
• 20:12
  But it happened on long trips.
• 20:16
  We used to have a car, uh, it's called a Chrysler Newport.
• 20:19
  They haven't made it in a long time.
• 20:21
  Um, but I don't know if you remember sedans back then.
• 20:25
  So you had the back seat, but then you had sort of a shelf behind the back seat, a little area uh behind the back seat that you could set things on or you could even lay on.
• 20:36
  And we used to go to drive-ins and what my brother would lay up there because a little bit more smaller, and I'd lay in the seat, and we fall asleep while my mom and dad were watching the movie.
• 20:45
  Um but you could do that in a sedan.
• 20:48
  The thing, the thing that people wanted, the government decided that you should care that the main thing you should care about is how many miles per gallon your car gets.
• 20:58
  And if you care about that, that's fine.
• 21:01
  But the government shouldn't be dictating that that's your sole concern.
• 21:04
  Most people cared about whether your car had power to merge onto the freeway in a reasonable uh amount of space.
• 21:12
  Uh, how comfortable it was, uh, how safe it was.
• 21:17
  There were a lot of things people cared about that had nothing whatsoever to do and overrode their concern for fuel economy.
• 21:23
  And that was and the proof of that, the proof of that was that as they ratcheted up fuel economy standards, more and more people left automobiles and went to SUVs or pickup trucks.
• 21:34
  You know, when we were young, Karen, pickup trucks had uh a single bench seat and a bed.
• 21:43
  You didn't have double wide cabs with bucket seats, uh seating for five or six.
• 21:49
  Before you had the uh double wide, you then had the little bench seat in the back seat that were on the sides.
• 21:55
  You would sit, you had a little, you chose me space with two little fold-down seats in the back behind the front seat.
• 22:02
  They put they folded down from the side, so your legs were inward as opposed to forward.
• 22:07
  Right.
• 22:08
  And then they and then they went to big king cabs, where you basically had the room of the sedan and the comforts of a sedan.
• 22:19
  Why?
• 22:20
  People still wanted the utility and the comfort of a big car, and trucks uh gave them that, whereas modern cars, people had to get squeezed into smaller and smaller, less safe, less powerful cars that you couldn't put the soccer team in or the baseball team in when I was a kid.
• 22:38
  It was baseball team.
• 22:40
  That you couldn't take everyone to a birthday party.
• 22:42
  You know, you couldn't do that in a small car.
• 22:44
  But you could pile them all into the minivan.
• 22:47
  Um exactly.
• 22:49
  So that's why that's how it came about.
• 22:51
  And the CO2 emission rule was just a step farther down that road.
• 22:56
  It didn't put you in ever larger vehicles because they started to be regulated like cars.
• 23:01
  It put you in electric cars or hybrids.
• 23:04
  Right.
• 23:04
  And then when you're driving along the highway, and I think of I-10, that's the one that I use the most.
• 23:12
  And you see these little tiny putt putts uh that remind me of golf carts next to these huge, humongous 18-wheelers.
• 23:22
  Uh, God forbid there's an accident.
• 23:24
  That car is a goner, no matter what.
• 23:27
  So, what safety did they help us?
• 23:30
  They didn't again, and that's why I say they don't want us to have cars.
• 23:35
  They didn't want us to have a.
• 23:37
  Well, like I said, it was it was never about safety.
• 23:39
  It was always about power for the regulator.
• 23:41
  And the the endangerment finding was the ultimate expansion of power for regulators because if they can regulate CO2, the very air you exhale, they can regulate the entire economy because everything, everything we do involves emitting CO2 from farming to plastics manufacturing for the hospital gear you got to your computer laptop to your cell phone to um what you drive to transportation.
• 24:15
  It it gives them it puts them in everything.
• 24:18
  It puts them in the driver's seat.
• 24:21
  Literally, yeah, in the driver's seat.
• 24:23
  And so let's hold that thought because we have to come up on a break and we're we have a lot more to discuss.
• 24:31
  So, Sterling, you're gonna come back and we'll continue this conversation.
• 24:36
  Don't go away, folks.
• 24:37
  This is Karen Schoen.
• 24:38
  You're listening to the Prism of America's Education brought to you on the America Outloud dot News Network, and we will be back to continue this incredible conversation.
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• 31:08
  Hello everyone, welcome back.
• 31:10
  This is Karen Shon.
• 31:12
  You're listening to the Prism of America's Education brought to you on the America Outloud.
• 31:17
  News.
• 31:18
  Folks, if you're not familiar with the Heartland Institute and with the writings of uh Sterling Burnett, uh, you should because they have some of the most incredible pieces and wonderful authors.
• 31:33
  So please check them out.
• 31:35
  Sterling, I understand that you're having an event coming up shortly.
• 31:39
  Yep, on April 8th and 9th in Washington, DC at the Hotel Washington.
• 31:44
  We're hosting our 16th international conference on climate change.
• 31:49
  We've got some partners, CO2 coalition, CFAC, what's up with that?
• 31:53
  They're uh they're co-hosting the event.
• 31:56
  Uh, but we've been doing this for I was gonna say 16 years.
• 31:59
  It's more than 16 years, but it's 16 events, and we gather the uh top scientific, economic, and policy authorities who uh take a realist point of view on the science.
• 32:12
  And at this coming conference, you know, things have changed with the Trump administration.
• 32:17
  And so uh this conference has a little bit more of a positive outlook than some of the past conferences has.
• 32:23
  We we're gonna have one panel that's all about bringing youth into uh the climate realist movement with some young people who started out on one side of uh the climate debate and wound up uh on our side.
• 32:37
  Basically, they looked at the data and they said the world isn't doomed, and they're we shouldn't be telling generations of kids that they're dying and it's their parents' fault.
• 32:47
  Uh, we've got a panel uh on people from industry who actually have been affected by the regulations going to describe that, and then we've got a number of scientific panels that are talking about uh bad predictions that have been made in the past uh based on climate models, uh, problems with accounting for clouds, uh, problems with the temperature station data from the surface, all sorts of uh discussions.
• 33:11
  We have a Nobel Prize winner that will be speaking, and we have Lee Zeldon, uh administrator of Trump's environmental protection agency who will uh lead off the conference with a plenary presentation.
• 33:23
  We're also going to have the governor of West Virginia, Patrick Morrissey.
• 33:26
  So we've got some pretty prominent people coming to talk to 200 or so people about the world is not coming to an end.
• 33:36
  Uh, drive what you want.
• 33:38
  Hopefully, you'll be paying less for goods and services going forward because we're going to get the affordability crisis under control.
• 33:44
  Once we get uh government out of the business of dictating what kind of energy you use.
• 33:50
  Yeah, that is that is a biggie because that's the one to me that affects everything.
• 33:56
  And when Obama said, if you uh are interested in investing in coal, we're gonna put you out of business.
• 34:04
  I said prices are gonna go up because coal and amazingly enough, the coal-fired plants are so much cleaner that they're hardly putting any pollutants, if at all, into the atmosphere.
• 34:19
  So rather than looking at the industry and saying clean yourself up, they said, Oh, what if?
• 34:27
  So we're gonna get rid of you.
• 34:29
  And that's that to me was the ultimate of control because I believe that whoever controls the power controls the country.
• 34:38
  Whoever controls the food controls the people, and they were looking at country first.
• 34:44
  Uh you said something that I thought was incredibly important, and that is the effect of these policies on our economy.
• 34:54
  What did that do to us?
• 34:56
  Well, it slowed economic growth and and it it for some periods of time it actually decimated economic growth.
• 35:02
  It made housing prices a lot higher.
• 35:06
  You've got to have noticed that your housing prices are going up.
• 35:09
  Well, that's because all the goods that go into housing, your your metals for your fittings, your wood for your framing, your concrete, it's all more expensive now.
• 35:17
  Why?
• 35:18
  Because the fuel used to uh log to cut to uh to form concrete, all of that fuel has gone up.
• 35:29
  All the transportation costs have gone up.
• 35:31
  Uh your energy costs have gone up because they have mandated wind and solar, which A is more expensive, and B doesn't work on the time.
• 35:40
  So you've got power plants sitting around part of the day doing nothing and then being asked to ramp up at a very, very short period of time to um uh supply power when the wind's not blowing or the sun's not shining.
• 35:53
  Absolutely.
• 35:54
  Um, I want to this is a very interesting thing that happened to me.
• 35:59
  I applied for uh in Florida, there were grants that were issued as a result of all of the hurricanes that we had.
• 36:07
  The area that I live in is not what is considered a high impact area, meaning that we can have regular windows.
• 36:16
  Uh, we don't have to have the way overly expensive impact windows.
• 36:23
  Well, in order to get this grant, I was told that I have to put in those expensive impact windows because that's what the grant focused on.
• 36:34
  Now that added another five thousand dollars to the cost of my windows that make absolutely no sense because I am not in an area where I would get 200 mile an hour winds, and if I did, the whole area would be devastated, and there wouldn't be anything anybody could do about it.
• 36:57
  So what they have done with these regulations is they have they're making no sense at all.
• 37:04
  And instead of improving on the goods, goods that we have and making them satisfactory and functional, they say no, you have to change it and have uh high impact windows, for example, when regular windows would have sufficed.
• 37:20
  So adding on to the price of housing, you're absolutely right, makes the house cost so much more that it becomes cost prohibitive in order to be able to even build a house.
• 37:34
  Sure.
• 37:35
  Well, here in Texas, so we've got coal here in Texas.
• 37:38
  We we had power plants where you'd mine the coal and you ship it up a chute and go straight to the power plant on-site power plants.
• 37:45
  Uh we have a lot of natural gas and oil.
• 37:48
  You may have heard it that Texas has some oil.
• 37:50
  Um we have plenty of energy here in Texas, but the powers that be said, oh, you gotta have wind.
• 37:59
  Oh, you gotta have solar.
• 38:01
  Well, you build wind out in West Texas where no one needs the power.
• 38:05
  So then you have to build thousands and thousands of miles of transmission lines, new transmission lines to bring the power from where the wind turbines are built uh to the cities where they say they need the power.
• 38:19
  The problem is they built the turbines before they built the line.
• 38:22
  So you had these turbines spinning and providing no power to anyone.
• 38:25
  So they they ladled all the transmission costs for the wind on the ratepayers as opposed to making the power company that built their wind out there pay for the wires.
• 38:36
  Then uh they say, oh, you know, you need solar.
• 38:40
  And so they're building these solar farms here.
• 38:42
  We're putting on your rooftops.
• 38:44
  And they and and so on a hot summit sunny day in Texas.
• 38:50
  Uh, first off, the solar panels lose power uh because it's too hot.
• 38:54
  Uh the electrons don't work very well if it goes above 78 degrees in Texas.
• 38:59
  We routinely sit above 95 to 97 degrees during the summer.
• 39:03
  Uh hundreds, hundreds not unnormal, but even it now, it only gets down to 80.
• 39:08
  Um, but you got these solar panels, right?
• 39:11
  And so you got solar panels here.
• 39:12
  Well, we also have something else common in Texas besides heat and sun, hailstorms and tornadoes.
• 39:19
  And do you know what doesn't do good hail storms and tornadoes?
• 39:23
  Solar farm, solar facilities.
• 39:25
  And so they build these facilities for parts of the day, they're providing almost all the power for Texas.
• 39:32
  They say, Oh, it's cheaper than you know, it's it's it's almost free.
• 39:36
  And then night comes, but the coal plant that existed, well, it can't work just part of the day.
• 39:44
  It's it's like a hotel, and they say, well, part of the week you can have uh 80% occupancy, but the other part of the week it's gonna be like 20%.
• 39:54
  You go out of business as a hotel if you've got 20% occupancy regularly in a restaurant.
• 39:59
  If you
• 40:00
  You don't have patrons.
• 40:01
  If you don't have 80% of your tables filled most of the time, you'll go out of business pretty quick.
• 40:06
  Well, that's what they were doing to coal plants.
• 40:08
  They were shutting down coal plants because they couldn't compete with solar on the sunny days.
• 40:13
  But then when the solar went away or a hailstorm came through, there was no power.
• 40:17
  So all of a sudden we had to pay huge amounts of power for peaker plants, which are natural gas plants to come online at short notice with high gas prices.
• 40:26
  And it wasn't the gas plants prop fault.
• 40:30
  They have to buy, they had to sit around with the gas and uh, you know, in the pipelines ready to ramp up.
• 40:36
  They're sitting around just like the coal plants were, but they can go up and down.
• 40:40
  So uh our prices 10 years ago, Texas had the lower lowest power prices in our region, and they had been going down under competition.
• 40:51
  With the addition of wind and solar, we now have the fastest rising prices in our region and the highest prices in our region.
• 40:58
  And they say, Oh, wind and solar are cheap.
• 41:01
  Well, not in evidence on my power bill any month.
• 41:06
  No, and then they put instead of saying this is really the cost of electricity, they'll say, Well, we have this fee, and we have this charge, and we have this uh extra, and we had this universal whatever, and all of a sudden you're paying 30, 40 extra in fees and charges, and it has nothing to do with the power when really that's what it is.
• 41:31
  Well, yeah, the you know, an honest labeling fee in Texas would require uh uh a line item that says this is how much we're taking from you to build uh power lines for wind turbines in power you're actually not using because you're not in Austin, but you're paying for this.
• 41:53
  That that's that's it's a long it's a long thing.
• 41:55
  But if they were honestly labeling the power, that's what they'd be doing.
• 41:59
  They're talking about building a power line now that's going to add another uh 20 to 40 dollars to our bill to run power lines to West Texas oil fields, not my gosh, not because there's a huge population boom in the West Texas oil fields, but because they want to build wind turbines out there.
• 42:22
  That's insane.
• 42:23
  Yeah, well, I'm sorry.
• 42:25
  That's almost as insane as that's almost as insane of driving over the highways and seeing where there used to be gorgeous uh orchards and um uh citrus fields and tomato plants and fabulous produce, and instead we're seeing solar farm after solar farm after solar farm.
• 42:50
  And I don't know about you, but I don't like the taste of solar panels.
• 42:55
  I don't think they replace my friends I don't I've I've I've stopped calling them farms.
• 43:00
  I call them industrial facilities because when you label them farms, it sounds like something good.
• 43:05
  Uh instead, what they are is a they should be treated like any other industrial factory or power plant.
• 43:09
  Most people don't think power, most people think industrial facilities are pretty unsightly, they really don't want one in their neighborhood.
• 43:18
  Uh but farms, oh, we like farms.
• 43:21
  So uh I'm trying to be more careful with my language.
• 43:24
  I think that's a good thing.
• 43:26
  I I think uh industrial waste facilities, because that's what they are, they're wasting the facilities, and then they say, Oh, well, we'll get our food from Mexico, we'll get our food from Guatemala or Honduras without taking into consideration.
• 43:42
  How does it get here?
• 43:44
  You know, what and what pesticides do they use down there that we don't use here?
• 43:49
  And what kind of what are the labor standards down there as opposed to here?
• 43:53
  You know, and and whether the most the most important thing they're not taking to account is is it really a good thing to be offshoring our food supply?
• 44:01
  You know, ask how that worked out during COVID when we we'd offshore all our um manufacturing for um for drugs.
• 44:10
  Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea.
• 44:12
  Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea.
• 44:13
  So, yeah, if we want to buy fruit from Guatemala, I'm I've got nothing against that, but if we can grow it here, why not grow it here?
• 44:23
  And instead of subsidizing solar, we should be subsidizing farmers.
• 44:29
  Well, I'm not I'm not sure that.
• 44:32
  I'm not in favor of subsidies, but I do know what the weather does do to the farming.
• 44:38
  But I also know that if we produce the people will buy it, and now people are asking more where is this coming from?
• 44:47
  And of course, uh, you have to be careful, folks, because one of the things that they stopped doing, and I noticed that with beef, is they stopped saying country of origin on the beef.
• 45:00
  So it's coming from Mexico or Canada or the US, and we have no idea where it's really coming from.
• 45:07
  So if you're in an area where you can buy anything local, go visit the farmer that you're gonna buy from and make a deal with the farmer because you'll find that the food is a lot better quality.
• 45:19
  Let's talk, let's talk for just a second, if we could, about the perversity of the energy policy that uh puts Russian gas over U.S.
• 45:28
  gas.
• 45:28
  So under Obama, uh, the states in the Northeast, uh particularly Massachusetts, they said they've got natural gas up there in northwestern Pennsylvania, uh in in upper in upstate New York.
• 45:43
  In Pennsylvania, they're drilling for gas and oil, and they wanted to build pipelines to Massachusetts, to Boston, to New York, to other places to Maryland, and those states said, no, no, no, we won't we don't want any pipelines.
• 45:55
  We natural gas is bad.
• 45:57
  Yeah, it's produced domestically, but it's bad.
• 45:59
  It's bad for climate change.
• 46:01
  We want wind and solar and hydro from Canada, which is where they're getting a lot of their power now, uh, because it's better to pay Canadians than it is to pay Americans.
• 46:10
  So anyway, they stopped these pipelines from being built.
• 46:14
  And then the winter came in Massachusetts, and uh they needed energy, and they couldn't get energy from their hydro, their wind, and their solar.
• 46:24
  And so what did they do?
• 46:25
  They didn't get gas from Pennsylvania because it had no way of getting to Massachusetts.
• 46:30
  They'd shut down the pipelines.
• 46:31
  What they did is they imported gas from Russia.
• 46:35
  Oh yeah, we we we we powered uh Putin's war machine.
• 46:42
  The the governor of Massachusetts, uh the mayor of Boston powered Putin's war machine as they complain uh about Putin's war machine, but they powered it, they they they fed it, they funded it by importing Russian gas rather than getting gas from Pennsylvania.
• 46:59
  Well, that makes a lot of sense, and those are the people that the DEI hired that those are our DEI hires.
• 47:08
  At one time, the power system was designed by engineers, and it was built for two things because every state controlled its own power system.
• 47:14
  The federal government hadn't gotten involved to make things cheaper.
• 47:18
  Um and uh the the power uh the um utility commissions had two charges make power reliable and make power affordable, and those were their two charges.
• 47:32
  Now it was designed by engineers to do just that, and it worked.
• 47:39
  Now power systems are increasingly designed by politicians who aren't engineers for goals other than affordability and reliability, and you get what we have now unaffordable power, unreliable power, more breakdowns than ever before in history, and politicians running on affordability, not climate change anymore.
• 47:57
  But when they get in power, like the governor of the new governors of Virginia and New Jersey who ran on affordability, they're the Democrats made their power unaffordable, they made their power unreliable, and then the Democrats came in and said, Oh, we're gonna solve the crisis, not mentioning they were the ones that called the crisis, and what are their solutions?
• 48:18
  The same policies that made power unaffordable in the first place, so they're doubling down on bad policies.
• 48:25
  Well, that sounds very familiar.
• 48:26
  Aren't they doing the same thing in California?
• 48:29
  They shut down all of the power and the gas stations are now closing.
• 48:35
  Uh, truckers can't get uh fuel.
• 48:39
  The uh from what I read, the ports are filling up with containers that can't be removed because they have no fuel to get the container ships uh to get them uh offloaded, and then they can't have truckers because they have these standards that you'll go out of business in your trucking company if you try to implement them.
• 49:01
  So California is now bringing in fuel from the Caribbean, yeah.
• 49:07
  It has to be shipped, and it has to be shipped to California, and then they sit back and say, I wonder why our gas is ten dollars a gallon.
• 49:15
  Yeah, we wonder why we can't afford houses, couldn't have anything to do with the mandate that all new houses have to be built with solar panels, adding 30,000 to the cost of an already too expensive.
• 49:26
  That the solar panels that by the way, when the next wildfire mudslider earthquake comes, uh will be non-functional.
• 49:34
  So, but you won't have a power supply to back them up because you'll shut down all the power plants.
• 49:39
  They're shutting down their last refinery.
• 49:40
  The the Air Commission in California basically passed rules that made refineries in California shut down.
• 49:48
  Once the last refinery was starting to shut down, Gavin Newsom said, Oh, whoa, please stay open, but stay open under those rules.
• 49:56
  They said we can't stay open under those rules, and so they shut down.
• 49:59
  So now they're
• 50:00
  Importing all this this uh refined uh fuel.
• 50:02
  It's not just oil they're pumping in from overseas uh because they don't want any drilling uh any offshore there, they could be getting it.
• 50:11
  Uh California has huge reserves, but you can't get to it under their rules, so they're importing energy ever in every mouse.
• 50:19
  If you if you like what's happening in California with loss of population with loss of businesses, just elect Gavin Newsom as president because this guy, every summer they have power outages, not occasionally, every summer they have power outages because of their energy mandates.
• 50:37
  Um what's his solution?
• 50:40
  They forced the nuclear power plants to close.
• 50:42
  The last one is going to close.
• 50:43
  He allowed it to stay open on an emergency basis.
• 50:46
  It's not an emergency, it's routine.
• 50:49
  It's routine.
• 50:51
  Uh, but they allowed it to stay open on emergency basis, and then they begged it to stay open.
• 50:54
  They said, You told us we have to shut down.
• 50:56
  Well, we know we said that, but now we take it back.
• 50:59
  I think he also subsidized it as well.
• 51:01
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:02
  Because give you money so that you can meet the requirements.
• 51:06
  Yeah, that's it.
• 51:06
  They had already decommissioned it.
• 51:08
  They said it's going to cost us all this.
• 51:09
  He says, Oh, yeah, we'll pay for that.
• 51:11
  Whereas if they just stayed out of it in the first place, that power plant and another one would have stay open all the time all along.
• 51:19
  They would have been recommissioned by the federal government to go for another 50 years.
• 51:23
  Uh, they'd have power from coal, they'd have power from natural gas, but they just loaded these regulations, and it's killing the power supply there, it's making it unaffordable, it's killing housing, it's killing industry.
• 51:37
  Industries are moving out left and right.
• 51:41
  They are losing population, they will lose seats in Congress with the next uh uh with the next census.
• 51:50
  Well, I would say good to that because they deserve it, but it's sad for the people that recognize what's going on, but unfortunately, you get what you vote for, and the people are just uh well, go smoke some more because that's where they are.
• 52:07
  Well, that's the problem.
• 52:08
  You know, they Einstein said uh a good definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results in California.
• 52:16
  They keep electing liberal progressive democrats uh to solve problems created by liberal progressive democrats, and they expect different results.
• 52:26
  That's the definition of madness.
• 52:27
  It certainly is, and I feel I feel bad for the people.
• 52:31
  Well, you know what?
• 52:32
  There's another election coming up in November, and that will be very telling because they have two candidates that actually are sane, and if the people want sanity, they'll vote for the either well, they'll vote for one of those two, and then probably the incumbent will win because uh one of those two will knock out the others, which is usually what happens.
• 52:55
  The two should get together and be one and maybe one lieutenant governor, uh, rather than allowing the Democrats to just rule the state in a power play that makes absolutely no sense.
• 53:11
  So more people will leave.
• 53:13
  Uh in New York, they're doing the same thing.
• 53:16
  I heard Kathy Hulkel the other day just was gonna go down to Palm Beach and tell the the uh billionaires who still love New York to come back so she can tax them.
• 53:30
  Insanity.
• 53:31
  We run you out with our taxes and regulations with our calling the police off to when they stop riots.
• 53:37
  Uh lady, you know, in New York, their motto should be making crime great again.
• 53:42
  Yes, it should be.
• 53:43
  You're right.
• 53:44
  And and yet they want to try and toss these people to come back to suffer through all that.
• 53:48
  And I'm I'm I'm pretty sure she's gonna get a two-finger salute.
• 53:52
  I certainly hope so.
• 53:54
  Uh Sterling, tell everyone all about where they can find you because I know you've got to leave, and I want to get you out on time.
• 54:02
  Thanks.
• 54:03
  Uh Karen, they can find me at www.heartland.org.
• 54:09
  They can uh they can go and sign up for my weekly newsletter, Climate Change Weekly, or see daily climate uh at a glance, where we refute false news stories about climate change every day.
• 54:22
  Well, thanks for having me on again.
• 54:24
  Thank you.
• 54:24
  It's always wonderful, and we'll have you back again.
• 54:26
  And as these new regulations unfold and people do something that would be more sane than stupid.
• 54:35
  Um, folks, this is Karen Schoen, and you have been listening to the Prism of America's Education brought to you on the America Outloud dot news network.
• 54:46
  So I will okay, Sterling.
• 54:50
  I'm gonna shut this so you can folks.
• 54:56
  The most important thing that you can do is pay attention.
• 55:00
  And unfortunately, we have a bad habit of not paying attention.
• 55:06
  So oversight, and I will say it and scream it from the rooftops.
• 55:12
  Vote in the primaries, vet your candidates.
• 55:17
  If we want more insanity, as Sterling said, what Einstein said, then just keep on doing the same thing over and over again.
• 55:25
  And that makes absolutely no sense at all.
• 55:29
  We have to make the changes.
• 55:31
  America is a country where the people have the ability to make the changes.
• 55:38
  So what are the most important changes?
• 55:40
  Get on the phone and get a hold of your senator and tell them to pass the SAVE Act.
• 55:47
  What insanity of having people who are not citizens of America vote in American elections.
• 55:54
  That is a disgrace, and we will wind up with more mandamis who want to destroy.
• 56:01
  They do not want to build, they want to destroy.
• 56:05
  And we have it is up to us to make sure that that does not happen.
• 56:09
  So this is Karen Schoen.
• 56:12
  You have been listening to the Prism of America's Education brought to you on the America Out Loud.news network.
• 56:19
  Have a wonderful week and make sure that you know who your candidates are.
• 56:25
  Don't vote for a pretty face.
• 56:28
  Conduct oversight, especially in your state.
• 56:31
  See you again next week.
• 56:34
  I'm America Dom Trinity.
• 56:39
  I'm America.
• 56:41
  Yes, America is