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How Innovative Partnerships & New Pharmacy Models Can Help Health Systems Address Rising Drug Costs While Improving Patient Access and Affordability · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  - Hello, everyone. This is Erica Spicer Mason with
• 0:02
  - Becker's Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning
• 0:05
  - in to the Becker's Healthcare podcast series.
• 0:08
  - Today, we're going to talk about how innovative
• 0:10
  - partnerships and new pharmacy models can help health
• 0:13
  - systems address rising drug costs while improving patient
• 0:17
  - access and affordability.
• 0:19
  - And joining me for this important conversation, we
• 0:21
  - have three leaders with us. The first is
• 0:23
  - Eric Hockins, chief growth officer at Lumicera Health
• 0:27
  - Services.
• 0:28
  - We also have Michael DePaz, vice president of
• 0:31
  - supply chain specialty pharmacy at Clarventa,
• 0:34
  - and we also have Jeanne Palskill, director of
• 0:36
  - manufacturer relations and contracting at Clarventa.
• 0:40
  - Eric, Michael, Jamie, welcome to the podcast. It's
• 0:42
  - so great to have the three of you
• 0:43
  - with us today.
• 0:44
  - Yeah. Thanks, Erica, and thanks, Beckers, for for
• 0:47
  - having us.
• 0:48
  - Thrilled to have all three of you, and
• 0:50
  - I wanted to just learn a little bit
• 0:53
  - more about each of you, maybe a little
• 0:55
  - bit about your role, your your background, or
• 0:57
  - how your work connects to health care just
• 0:58
  - to give our listeners some context.
• 1:01
  - Eric, do you wanna get us started with
• 1:02
  - some intros? Yeah. Absolutely. So, as chief growth
• 1:06
  - officer,
• 1:07
  - I I support all of our our health
• 1:09
  - system partners,
• 1:11
  - their growth, their objectives, and and how, they
• 1:15
  - expand their programs and capabilities and and how
• 1:18
  - we kinda bring in more health systems.
• 1:20
  - Our organization has been one that likes to
• 1:23
  - help health systems build the programs themselves, give
• 1:26
  - them the tools to to grow, and so
• 1:28
  - the that's what,
• 1:29
  - myself and and my team's support.
• 1:32
  - I've been with the organization
• 1:34
  - six years, and and prior to that, did
• 1:36
  - almost a decade,
• 1:38
  - of pharmacy,
• 1:40
  - leadership in health system running specialty pharmacy programs,
• 1:44
  - supporting outpatient and ambulatory programs. So that's kinda
• 1:47
  - my my background,
• 1:49
  - prior to coming over to Lumicera.
• 1:52
  - Fantastic.
• 1:53
  - Eric, thank you. And, Michael, how about you?
• 1:56
  - Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Erica, for having us. So
• 1:58
  - I am our, VP of supply chain here
• 2:00
  - for Clarventa. So I have oversight really over
• 2:03
  - our Clarventa
• 2:04
  - organization,
• 2:05
  - and strategy. So,
• 2:07
  - my previous background, a little bit different than
• 2:09
  - Eric, a pharmacist. I am a pharmacist by
• 2:11
  - training like him, but came up in the
• 2:14
  - independent specialty pharmacy space and,
• 2:17
  - joined Lumicera
• 2:18
  - back in 2023
• 2:19
  - where I served as, our manager of of
• 2:21
  - industry relations and director of strategic partnerships,
• 2:24
  - manu doing all manufacture relationships and partnerships for
• 2:28
  - kind of Lumicera as an organization.
• 2:30
  - Had a short, I'd say, summer internship as
• 2:33
  - Jamie likes to call it, where I jumped
• 2:36
  - over to pharma for for a short bit
• 2:38
  - and have just recently rejoined kinda the, Lumicera
• 2:41
  - and Clarventa kinda enterprise and team,
• 2:44
  - over the last four weeks. So my my
• 2:46
  - role is ultimately
• 2:48
  - focused around the the growth of Claraventa and
• 2:50
  - supporting health system,
• 2:52
  - and other pharmacy partners, you know, from the
• 2:55
  - Claraventa standpoint. So happy to be here.
• 2:58
  - Awesome. Thank you, Michael. I'm excited to learn
• 3:00
  - more about Claraventa today.
• 3:02
  - Jamie, last but not least, tell us a
• 3:04
  - little bit about you.
• 3:06
  - Yeah. Thanks for, for having us.
• 3:09
  - So I've been with the the family of
• 3:11
  - of companies here for a little over ten
• 3:13
  - years.
• 3:15
  - Spent the first couple of years within
• 3:17
  - within the prior auth space at Navitus and
• 3:20
  - then about eight or so in the industry
• 3:22
  - relations and contracting
• 3:24
  - space,
• 3:25
  - working closely with manufacturers
• 3:27
  - on pricing, contracting,
• 3:29
  - you know, putting forth formulary strategy and recommendations
• 3:32
  - internally here at Navitus or at Navitus and
• 3:36
  - engaging with a lot of downstream clients and
• 3:38
  - and some sales focus as well.
• 3:41
  - Kind of at the start of this year,
• 3:43
  - really,
• 3:44
  - started to dive more into the Claraventa,
• 3:47
  - landscape,
• 3:48
  - which has quickly heated
• 3:51
  - up over the last couple of months,
• 3:53
  - and
• 3:54
  - excited to
• 3:55
  - kinda to work with Michael and others on
• 3:58
  - on bringing this new
• 4:00
  - this new company to market, honestly, to help,
• 4:03
  - disrupt the industry from a a pricing strategy
• 4:05
  - perspective.
• 4:06
  - So, again, thanks for thanks for having us,
• 4:08
  - and look forward to the discussion here.
• 4:10
  - Yeah. Jamie, thank you so much. And, likewise,
• 4:13
  - looking forward to learning some more from the
• 4:16
  - three of you. And before we get into
• 4:18
  - Claraventa, I wanted to just kind of first
• 4:20
  - set the scene for our audience and the
• 4:22
  - landscape that that you and your partners are
• 4:25
  - working within today.
• 4:27
  - Eric, I know that rising prescription drug costs
• 4:29
  - are top of mind for pharmacy leaders and
• 4:31
  - their c suite counterparts. It's certainly not just
• 4:33
  - limited to pharmacy leaders anymore.
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  - How are you seeing this trend shape health
• 4:38
  - systems priorities
• 4:39
  - at this moment, especially around access and affordability?
• 4:43
  - Yeah. I mean, drug costs continue to rise
• 4:46
  - at a at a rate higher than than
• 4:49
  - most,
• 4:50
  - of the consumer,
• 4:52
  - index as well as just rising cost of
• 4:54
  - expenses, and that's that's been a major major
• 4:57
  - pain point for our our health system
• 4:59
  - partners.
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  - What we're really,
• 5:02
  - grappling with and and helping health systems understand
• 5:05
  - is is more so that that gross to
• 5:08
  - net looking at
• 5:10
  - the the list price that continues to go
• 5:12
  - up and what actually happens between
• 5:15
  - that that list price and what health systems,
• 5:18
  - can procure it at and then what payers
• 5:21
  - and or patients ultimately pay for it.
• 5:24
  - And so that's been something because
• 5:26
  - we have,
• 5:28
  - tremendous
• 5:29
  - expertise on the payer side, on the pharmacy
• 5:32
  - side, and the manufacturer side. I mean, you
• 5:34
  - look at the the panel right here, you
• 5:36
  - got someone health system background,
• 5:38
  - pharma background, and and payer background, and and
• 5:41
  - somehow we all get along when we, when
• 5:43
  - we join each other for a cup of
• 5:45
  - coffee. But, it it's something that we've brought
• 5:48
  - in all of the the different stakeholders to
• 5:51
  - really help health system partners understand
• 5:54
  - those dynamics and then actually create some solutions,
• 5:57
  - when it comes to Clervanta, which we're excited
• 6:00
  - to talk to you about today, as to
• 6:02
  - how we can solve some of those those
• 6:04
  - those rising costs and and understand all the
• 6:07
  - different levers and all the different, you know,
• 6:09
  - middlemen and organizations
• 6:11
  - that that, touch touch that prescription, touch that
• 6:15
  - patient, touch the pharmacoeconomics
• 6:18
  - between that list price and the,
• 6:21
  - actual procurement price and what the reimbursement,
• 6:25
  - payment is.
• 6:27
  - Mhmm.
• 6:28
  - Eric, thank you so much. I appreciate you
• 6:29
  - setting that scene for us and sharing a
• 6:31
  - bit about what you're seeing on the ground
• 6:34
  - amongst your partners.
• 6:35
  - And, Mike, I wanted to turn it to
• 6:37
  - you next and and learn a little bit
• 6:39
  - more about where and how Clarventa comes in
• 6:41
  - here, you know, against this backdrop that that
• 6:44
  - Eric outlined.
• 6:45
  - And for listeners who are hearing about Clarventa
• 6:47
  - for the first time, can you share a
• 6:49
  - little bit about what it is and the
• 6:50
  - problem that you're setting out to solve?
• 6:53
  - Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So Clorventa is ultimately
• 6:56
  - created as a procurement GPO.
• 6:59
  - And as Eric likes to describe it, we
• 7:00
  - are kind of the GPO to end all
• 7:02
  - GPOs.
• 7:03
  - So as Eric talks about kind of that
• 7:05
  - gross to net shift and and what we
• 7:08
  - see kind of occurring
• 7:10
  - as you get down to the net price
• 7:12
  - and the value that is eaten up in
• 7:14
  - the middle,
• 7:15
  - that's where we ultimately
• 7:17
  - wanted to
• 7:18
  - create some additional transparency,
• 7:20
  - efficiency, and ultimately sustainability
• 7:23
  - through kind of Clarventa. So taking a look
• 7:26
  - at all of that value that's eaten up
• 7:27
  - in the middle and finding ways to be
• 7:30
  - able to actually pass it through
• 7:32
  - to those health system partners, pass it through
• 7:35
  - to other plan sponsors,
• 7:37
  - as well as even patients through kind of
• 7:39
  - net pricing opportunities
• 7:41
  - that will decrease the overall health care kind
• 7:44
  - of expenses that we see and ultimately
• 7:47
  - drive those prices,
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  - down as well. Because we do see,
• 7:52
  - when we we add all of that middle
• 7:54
  - value from the the middlemen that are currently
• 7:57
  - working,
• 7:58
  - within the supply chain, that's where we see
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  - kind of those price increases
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  - actually driving that's those middlemen are driving kind
• 8:05
  - of those additional price increases,
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  - throughout the supply chain. So that's where Clarventa
• 8:10
  - is ultimately stepping into,
• 8:12
  - kind of revolutionize, I'd say, the supply chain
• 8:15
  - and find those opportunities where we can continue
• 8:17
  - to pass value through to those partners who
• 8:20
  - are actually doing the work and supporting our
• 8:22
  - patients.
• 8:23
  - It's a great overview, Mike. Thank you so
• 8:25
  - much.
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  - And, you know, as you were speaking through
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  - your answer, I I was thinking about how
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  - each of you represents different areas of this
• 8:33
  - space, you know, whether that's growth, the supply
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  - chain as you were just speaking to, Mike,
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  - manufacturer relations. I know that's more in Jamie's
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  - wheelhouse here.
• 8:43
  - What will partnership from all of those points
• 8:45
  - of view, what will that look like, when
• 8:48
  - a health system is partnering with Claraventa?
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  - You know, in practice, I'd I'd love to
• 8:52
  - get a bit of a on the ground
• 8:54
  - sense of of what this will look like.
• 8:57
  - Yeah. I can start high level from the
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  - growth aspect.
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  - You know, GPOs aren't aren't new. They've been
• 9:02
  - in our industry for for a while. So,
• 9:05
  - the the
• 9:07
  - luxury or or perk with that is that
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  - a lot of those
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  - capabilities to load contract pricing through a GPO,
• 9:15
  - are pretty well established. And so we are
• 9:17
  - really looking to
• 9:19
  - help health systems load those Claraventa
• 9:22
  - contracts into,
• 9:24
  - their existing,
• 9:25
  - you know, supply chain relationships.
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  - But it's looking at it in a, a
• 9:30
  - more innovative way, taking their relationships with,
• 9:34
  - other employer groups, with health plans, with their
• 9:36
  - own benefits
• 9:37
  - team, and finding ways to,
• 9:40
  - partner a little bit closer based on our
• 9:42
  - relationships with with manufacturers
• 9:45
  - and and and payers in the ecosystem.
• 9:48
  - Margin compression is is not going away. That
• 9:51
  - is a major major pain point, and this
• 9:54
  - is really kinda helping
• 9:55
  - solve that by loading some of these Plurventa
• 9:58
  - contracts
• 9:59
  - in for our our health system partners. We
• 10:02
  - are we are an organization that likes to
• 10:04
  - help other organizations
• 10:05
  - grow their own programs, and we feel like
• 10:07
  - that's kind of a big key to to
• 10:10
  - what Clervent is all about. Mhmm.
• 10:13
  - And, Mike, Jamie, what would you have?
• 10:15
  - Yeah. Absolutely. Eric Eric really knocked it out
• 10:17
  - of the park there, as it relates to
• 10:19
  - how how we're gonna continue to work with
• 10:21
  - health systems from a Clarventa standpoint.
• 10:24
  - And I think that that margin compression that
• 10:27
  - he he had talked about is is very
• 10:29
  - important.
• 10:30
  - I think part of our goal at Clarventa
• 10:32
  - is ultimately
• 10:33
  - creating pharmacy networks where we can offer that
• 10:36
  - net price at a cost plus type of
• 10:39
  - manner as well, which is kind of the
• 10:40
  - tried and true model of Lumicera
• 10:43
  - and where we've been living in in kind
• 10:44
  - of the specialty pharmacy space as well. So
• 10:47
  - I think, you know, being able to provide
• 10:49
  - our health system partners
• 10:51
  - and act as a referral source for them
• 10:53
  - to help them,
• 10:54
  - within their kind of continued growth,
• 10:57
  - as an organization as well. And then in
• 10:59
  - addition, creating that
• 11:01
  - transparent and clear kind of pricing,
• 11:04
  - and ensuring that value is getting passed through
• 11:06
  - to them versus eaten up in the middle,
• 11:09
  - I think are gonna be the the important
• 11:10
  - components from a supply chain standpoint.
• 11:13
  - Yeah. Mike, great great perspective. And, Jamie, what
• 11:16
  - would you add from manufacturing?
• 11:18
  - Yeah. I agree with everything both Eric and
• 11:21
  - Michael have said there. You know, I think
• 11:23
  - in a lot of ways,
• 11:25
  - the the ongoing
• 11:27
  - rise of of drug costs,
• 11:30
  - really are created for
• 11:32
  - a number of various reasons.
• 11:34
  - Obviously, there's some of the ongoing trials and,
• 11:37
  - you know, expenses from the pharma side to
• 11:40
  - continue research on on products. But others are
• 11:43
  - really due to the extraction of dollars from
• 11:46
  - various players within within the system and other
• 11:50
  - programs that create,
• 11:51
  - you know, risk for lost dollars,
• 11:54
  - to manufacturers
• 11:55
  - via other double dipping or
• 11:58
  - discounting scenarios
• 12:00
  - kind of in, like, the three forty b
• 12:02
  - space of sorts. Right? So,
• 12:04
  - really partnering with manufacturers
• 12:06
  - here
• 12:07
  - helps provide this transparent pricing mechanism,
• 12:11
  - mitigates those risks of dollars being extracted for
• 12:15
  - various reasons
• 12:17
  - from the supply chain here. It does also
• 12:20
  - create other avenues for
• 12:23
  - the the growth or expansion of value based
• 12:26
  - contracting or discounting,
• 12:29
  - providing other enhanced services to patients,
• 12:32
  - providing additional
• 12:34
  - usable
• 12:35
  - data back to manufacturers.
• 12:38
  - And really, when you think across the enterprise
• 12:41
  - of of companies here,
• 12:43
  - really helping drive to
• 12:44
  - overall lowest net cost, meaning those that, you
• 12:48
  - know, partner and engage here will be the
• 12:50
  - benefactors of
• 12:52
  - access
• 12:53
  - from formulary coverage from downstream entities, so
• 12:57
  - which can drive more utilization and volume
• 13:00
  - to their products,
• 13:02
  - increasing their access to patients.
• 13:05
  - In in a lot of ways,
• 13:07
  - manufacturers have have started to sides sidestep some
• 13:11
  - of the current,
• 13:12
  - you know, larger PBM GPO landscapes
• 13:16
  - with some of the direct to consumer, direct
• 13:17
  - to employer,
• 13:19
  - programs that have come about in the last,
• 13:21
  - you know, twelve to twenty four months or
• 13:23
  - so. This is really another function of that
• 13:26
  - of sorts, but within a funded benefit. So
• 13:28
  - providing that same value back to manufacturers,
• 13:31
  - avoiding those
• 13:32
  - dollars being extracted, those those risk
• 13:35
  - mitigation strategies of various programs,
• 13:38
  - But delivering this the low net cost,
• 13:41
  - on the front end basis at the point
• 13:43
  - of sale through
• 13:45
  - a patient's, you know, sponsored benefit
• 13:49
  - from a pharmacy benefit coverage standpoint.
• 13:53
  - Yeah. Jamie, thank you. And I I know
• 13:55
  - what we've touched on a lot here is
• 13:57
  - this bigger idea of cost savings.
• 14:00
  - But I I wanna go a little bit
• 14:02
  - deeper as well. You know, beyond cost savings,
• 14:05
  - Jamie, what impact do you think Claraventa will
• 14:08
  - have on patient
• 14:09
  - care as well as the industry more broadly?
• 14:11
  - You know, whether that's
• 14:12
  - access, affordability,
• 14:15
  - other outcomes that you're seeing. And as you
• 14:17
  - look ahead in those next few years, what
• 14:19
  - excites you most about where the work is
• 14:20
  - headed?
• 14:22
  - Yeah. I think the the next five years
• 14:23
  - have a the potential for a lot
• 14:26
  - of a lot of change within this space
• 14:28
  - for a number of reasons,
• 14:30
  - legislative
• 14:31
  - efforts,
• 14:32
  - other, you know, government program efforts like IRA,
• 14:36
  - MFP components.
• 14:38
  - But I think
• 14:39
  - all of those things considered,
• 14:42
  - this sort of strategy
• 14:44
  - sets the stage for a lot of those
• 14:46
  - those,
• 14:48
  - events to take place.
• 14:49
  - And, really,
• 14:51
  - when we're really concerned,
• 14:53
  - you know, wholeheartedly about taking care of patients,
• 14:56
  - taking care of those members that are,
• 14:58
  - accessing
• 14:59
  - products through pharmacy partners like Lumicera,
• 15:03
  - this really provides the opportunity for them to
• 15:06
  - be the benefactor and the plan sponsor as
• 15:09
  - well of the net cost of the product
• 15:11
  - at the point of sale. So this this
• 15:14
  - could lead to the, you know, the stage
• 15:16
  - for members being more adherent and staying on
• 15:18
  - therapy because they're impacted less from an out
• 15:21
  - of pocket cost expense when they're when they're
• 15:24
  - refilling and picking up those,
• 15:25
  - prescriptions.
• 15:27
  - And from the plan plan sponsor perspective, they're
• 15:30
  - paying less upfront. They're being able to offer
• 15:33
  - greater, you know, more robust benefits to their,
• 15:37
  - members or to their employees, you know, depending
• 15:39
  - on the plan type.
• 15:41
  - Because they're seeing that value on the front
• 15:43
  - end, there this really mitigates the risk of
• 15:46
  - the back end rebate scrubbing that can occur
• 15:49
  - because all of those pieces are being done
• 15:51
  - before the claim
• 15:52
  - is dispensed, before the patient picks up that
• 15:54
  - prescription. So you have more,
• 15:57
  - you have less volatility
• 15:58
  - in the ebbs and flows of the current
• 16:00
  - rebate
• 16:01
  - you know, submission game and scrubbing game and
• 16:04
  - really can have more price predictability
• 16:07
  - because you're seeing that low net cost
• 16:10
  - when the patient is being dispensed that medication.
• 16:13
  - Yeah. Jamie, appreciate you touching on some of
• 16:15
  - those other effects that are possible such as
• 16:18
  - medication adherence as you were speaking to.
• 16:20
  - It's an exciting
• 16:22
  - future ahead. And and, again, I just wanna
• 16:24
  - thank the three of you for sharing a
• 16:26
  - bit more about what you're seeing amongst your
• 16:28
  - partners, what's going on at Claraventa.
• 16:30
  - As we close here, is there anything that
• 16:32
  - we haven't touched on or maybe any final
• 16:34
  - thoughts that you'd like to share with listeners?
• 16:37
  - Yeah. Thank thanks for for having us today.
• 16:40
  - I think we're, you know, scratching the the
• 16:42
  - surface of of, you you know, what
• 16:45
  - Clarventa can do, and and we do feel
• 16:47
  - it is helping change the industry and and
• 16:50
  - change the drug channel and supply chain for
• 16:53
  - for the better to do it more transparently
• 16:55
  - just as many of our other organizations
• 16:58
  - in our family have have done the last
• 17:00
  - twenty years in helping health systems grow and
• 17:03
  - and helping them take care of their their
• 17:05
  - patient. That's ultimately
• 17:06
  - what what we feel is best is is
• 17:09
  - giving
• 17:10
  - the health systems the tools to to be
• 17:12
  - able to take care of that patient and
• 17:14
  - do it in a a sustainable manner. You
• 17:16
  - know, Clarventa is one major
• 17:18
  - major tool in our toolbox for for health
• 17:21
  - systems.
• 17:22
  - Lumicera has has kind of a whole host
• 17:24
  - of of other ways that we help health
• 17:27
  - systems, and and we're exciting for excited for
• 17:30
  - this to to be added on to that
• 17:32
  - breadth of
• 17:34
  - of services and solutions we can can do
• 17:36
  - to to help health system organizations grow.
• 17:40
  - Well said. Thanks, Eric. Mike, Jamie, any final
• 17:43
  - thoughts from you?
• 17:45
  - I think we're we're at this
• 17:47
  - very interesting time in a in a very
• 17:50
  - large market.
• 17:51
  - Legislative efforts have maybe forced the envelope to,
• 17:55
  - you know, make transparency
• 17:57
  - be more of a table stakes at this
• 18:00
  - point.
• 18:01
  - But really is the core
• 18:03
  - the foundational core of how our enterprise, like,
• 18:06
  - and the companies within have operated since since
• 18:09
  - the get go. So we're looking forward to
• 18:12
  - and excited to bring forth another strategy that
• 18:14
  - really builds on those beliefs,
• 18:17
  - isn't,
• 18:18
  - you know, is seeking to partner with with
• 18:21
  - everybody with every stakeholder within the space to
• 18:23
  - deliver,
• 18:25
  - value back and contain health care costs
• 18:28
  - to really benefit
• 18:30
  - everybody involved within the system here, notably, you
• 18:33
  - know, patients that are that are needing and
• 18:35
  - taking medications that are,
• 18:38
  - being dispensed.
• 18:40
  - Yeah. Absolutely. And it's, you know, I think,
• 18:42
  - Erica, from our perspective, it's a it's a
• 18:44
  - very exciting time for the health care industry.
• 18:47
  - As Jamie has mentioned and Eric has mentioned,
• 18:50
  - we continue to see
• 18:51
  - this shift. And I think at Clarventa and
• 18:54
  - Lumicera,
• 18:55
  - these are things that Lumicera and our sister
• 18:57
  - entities have been
• 18:58
  - advocating for and have been working towards,
• 19:02
  - for the last twenty plus years. So it's
• 19:05
  - very exciting to to see this time,
• 19:07
  - come in the health care industry, and I
• 19:09
  - think it's it's only going to,
• 19:12
  - further support kind of patients
• 19:14
  - and increase access and affordability,
• 19:16
  - for our patients as as we begin to
• 19:18
  - shift them over to,
• 19:20
  - the Claraventa kind of net price model
• 19:23
  - and and hopefully,
• 19:24
  - ultimately lead to additional changes within the health
• 19:27
  - care industry that are gonna benefit patients.
• 19:30
  - Yeah. Fantastic.
• 19:31
  - Mike, thanks for rounding us out with those
• 19:34
  - closing thoughts, and I just wanna thank the
• 19:35
  - three of you again for making time for
• 19:37
  - this conversation today.
• 19:39
  - I look forward to seeing
• 19:41
  - how everything evolves at Claraventa, and, hopefully, we'll
• 19:44
  - have the three of you back on for
• 19:45
  - another episode,
• 19:47
  - in the next few months or a year
• 19:48
  - out and see where things are. But,
• 19:50
  - again, thank you for for your time today.
• 19:53
  - Yeah. Thanks, Erica. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
• 19:57
  - And we'd also like to thank our podcast
• 19:59
  - sponsor for today, Lumicera Health Services and Claraventa.
• 20:03
  - Listeners, be sure to tune in to more
• 20:05
  - podcasts from Becker's by visiting our podcast page
• 20:08
  - at beckershospitalreview.com.