Latest / The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+ / Change Your Space, Change Your Life: A Fresh Start After 50

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Change Your Space, Change Your Life: A Fresh Start After 50 · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Lauren Crawford.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are not conversations about decline, they're conversations about becoming.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Wisdom Trust podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here today with Michael Villaroll, and I will introduce him very shortly, but what I want to remind us all as we're watching these interviews, these discussions, is we're not here as experts, we're not here as celebrities, we're here as guys having conversations, sharing our journeys, talking about some of the issues, some of the fun, some of the challenges in our lives.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal ultimately is to inspire, uplift, motivate, and share and build a community, build a movement.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So let me tell you a little bit about Michael.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Michael is a person who truly cares about his clients, and we're going to hear about that in a moment.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: His goal is always to simplify their lives, to give every item in their home a place.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just about perfection, it's about flow and function.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought it was really interesting when I met Michael to have him on this season where we're talking about our pivot into wellness and our homes are very much part of how we feel and be well in our lives.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Michael's going to tell us more about that.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll hand it over to you, my friend, and tell us a little bit more about who you are.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I started my business about 10 years ago.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And with the goal of, like you said, simplifying people's lives and giving a place to everything in your home.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was pretty obvious in my previous job that people needed help simplifying and keeping things in order.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times what I was seeing with other organizers, other people that do what I do is perfection.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: They wanted the perfect look.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality is that everybody wants that, but maintaining that sometimes can be difficult and added stress.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really about the person, how they function, the flow of their home, and making it work for them.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got a little bit.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you use this language of feng shui, like you, you go in there and you work your magic by positioning and placing things.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you call yourself?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: What is the name that you describe, this expertise that you have?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really just consider myself a professional organizer, but I kind of am a jack of all trades because of my past work environments and my experiences, kind of coinciding with just my normal ability to look at things spatially.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of look at your home spatially, but I also observe how things are in the home.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the biggest things I get from clients is I'm so embarrassed for you to see this because it's messy, right?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm so embarrassed.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And my response is always, there's nothing to be embarrassed about, right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is not something that everybody has the skill, and it's not something that everybody knows how to do.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I try to put all my clients at ease.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, again, it doesn't have to be perfect.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just has to be functional for you.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want it to be perfect because that's my nature, but I also know that sometimes maintaining that can be a stress for that client as well.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to keep things simple.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I try to simplify, simplify it for them so that they they can function.
• 4:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: How does one get here?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about your past.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: What got you to this place of being a professional organizer?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say I've been an organizer since I was a child.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was super organized, but and I tend to get that gene, so to speak, from her.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have I'm the youngest of five siblings, and my siblings don't, all my siblings don't have that skill, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not something that they had, but I I inherited that from my mom.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And as a child, I would organize my toys, label them, and no one prompted me to do it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just liked it that way.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a skill that I started with at as a young child and it developed from there.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I went into corporate America at a young age, and essentially all my roles were customer service-based and sales-based.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I built on from my career was really helping others, educating others on whatever it was that I was selling or service, whatever service I was providing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then coupled with that, I was remodeling homes on my own and learning how to do remodeling.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, I never really hired an architect.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I would look at the home and say, this needs to go over there.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I would move walls in my head and rearrange furniture in my head.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it just kind of, again, when I was doing this stuff, I was like, Well, what, you can't do that?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not everybody does this.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I never really thought of it as a skill until I really started my business.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I started to see that people, I'm like, it kind of dawned on me that people did not have that ability.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that that was kind of my gift.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it took me a while to get there.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like all the things that I've done in my past have led me to this point.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm able to use all the skills that I've learned in different businesses and different jobs that I've had to get to this, to get to this place in my life.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so from high school doing retail, folding shirts and sweaters and making everything look perfect to being in sales and presentations and doing those sorts of things and making people feel comfortable when you're speaking about a topic or a subject.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I went into a moving company and was selling moves.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And really, people, that's when I it kind of hit me that this is one of the most stressful things that you can do is move, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't know that there's a system or a process.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at a space, that there's a flow to each space in each room.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it just kind of brought me to that point 10 years ago.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I started small, was working another job, and then it just started taking off.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I decided to quit and do it full-time.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and then the way that you you indicated that you're in this place where it just kind of you you grew into it, it became part of you.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that alignment is so powerful.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so many of us don't find that as a purpose coach.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's just gold for me because you happened upon it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was growing all along, and and here you are manifesting this beautiful life.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, were you a child?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe your family didn't permit this, but I was the one in our family that was always moving the furniture around.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's put the couch over there and the stereo over there, and that chair over there, and the lamp over there.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Always rearranging my furniture.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And even when I was younger or and moved out, my mom would call and say, You need to tell your father that we need to put this here, because she would say it and he would be like, No, I'm not doing that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would say it, and he'd be like, That's a good idea.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So she would get so mad, but it worked, right?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So she learned how to how to how to work that that that benefit from me and just say, Tell your father this and then he'll do it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's of course he would.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I I wonder how much like with with other gay men, you know, there's all these cliches about, you know, fashion and all that stuff.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder too, if we tend to have more of that gene about spatial awareness and design, then maybe perhaps your average dude.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think so.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've met gay people that don't have this skill either.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there is that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, yeah, it just came naturally to me.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking at kind of the theme for this season is this idea about a pivot into like oh how you moved into this sort of sphere of wellness or well-being.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm looking at this, as I said at the outset, that our home is kind of like, well, we can describe it metaphorically in many ways, like a nest.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: It can be like the womb of the mother where we're comfortable, we're held, we feel nurtured.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if we don't have that, then our lives can be a little bit scattered, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I imagine you would see a lot where people's lives are in a little bit of disarray and their home reflects that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and I will say that out of all the things and forms that I've taken professionally, that this is the most gratifying because people are so grateful and thankful for making it warm, inviting, organized, functional.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's been very rewarding for me because I mean, I've never gotten more praise than any other job.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes me feel good.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell people all the time, you know, they look at a space and they're overwhelmed.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and, you know, sometimes I personally can get overwhelmed with the amount of stuff that we have to go through.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that if you put your head down and start in one corner and work your way around, whether it's one box a time or one corner or one wall or a whole room, you'll get there, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just takes time.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when they're paying me to do it, they it makes that it makes it more important, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're paying somebody to help them do this.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: They want it to work.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So they get more involved and then it becomes what you do, which is kind of a coaching session and and asking lots of questions and and explaining the flow of stuff.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's a lot of it is basic, but when I talk through it with them, it's like it opens the, you know, the clouds disappear and and it and they're like, oh, okay.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I've even had customers come back to me and say, Oh, I'm thinking about this, and Michael would do this, this, and this.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what they do, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they they're starting to learn how to do things on their own.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a great thing to see.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: What strikes me with this is that you're in this environmental external environment, helping them to figure out what order looks like.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: We live in a society with so much dysregulation, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And our our nervous systems for many of us are just fried.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you can provide them the outlet to feel, again, that that sense of just a groundedness in their physical space, like that order, oh my God, that's invaluable.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and the thing that you just said too, that I find fascinating is you know, there's a lot of common sense to this, or whatever the word was that you said, like it, it, you know, it's kind of obvious or whatever, but it's not for everyone.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and just because something is common sense, it doesn't mean it's common practice that people know how to take what they might have some idea in their head, but how do you operationalize that?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you get to step in there and and show them the way.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and a lot of times what they do is they look at a space and they look at the mess and they know it needs to be fixed, but they just get overwhelmed and then they just close the door or close the cabinet or close the closet and they put it aside.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's wow.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's one of those things that I come in again and just say, okay, yeah, this is what we're gonna do.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is how we're gonna start.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just like, you know, thank you so much.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the things that my clients have told me is that, you know, you bring such a calming presence into my home.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I really value your opinion.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, sometimes I'll get pushback and then they'll say, Why am I pushing back on this?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: He he's the expert, he knows what he's doing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I, and then they do what I asked them to do, and they're like, You were right, it works.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You like you do have a calming energy just here in this space?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's really beautiful.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us what what is the most common thing that you see in in terms of coming into someone's life?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because you are, you're, you're, you're entering their life, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're creating their space and a lot of disorder, you said, overwhelm.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any you know, particular telltale signs that when you come into a space, you can kind of go like, oh, you know, I can see where where things are happening and and where there might be some denial.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You had made you have you had made the comment around people just close the door.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I metaphorically, that when you said that, it made me think like, oh my God, that's what so many of us do with our lives.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Issues we don't want to deal with, close the door.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: A relationship that's gone bad, close the door.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: A job that I don't like anymore, it's toxic, close the door.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: A financial situation I don't like, close the door.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm wanking off too much to porn, close the door.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's so many door closings, and you are literally going in there and helping them to open the door.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it feels good.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and people I talk to, they're like, oh my gosh, you know, they'll see some before pictures, and and they just again, even if it's not their space, they get overwhelmed.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell them, I'm like, well, I kind of get excited about it because I can see the potential.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can see what it's supposed to be and what in my head.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I look at that stuff and I'm like, I know this isn't my space and it's not my home, but I can make this so much better for you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it excites me.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a lot of work and a lot of counseling and talking through stuff and purging, but I get so much fulfillment out of it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember these the first, the first property I bought.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I walked in and it was so hideous.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like what how like this weird pinky, like white person, fleshy colored walls, and just like ick, ick, ick, you know, like naughty pine cabinetry in the kitchens.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my god, that's gonna be a beautiful French vanilla white.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna, you know, like I could just see.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that house sat on the market a long time before I saw it.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I saw it, I'm like, oh my gosh, I can make this look like so literally within weeks, and a bunch of ferro and ball paint and wallpaper, and and it it looked incredible.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I even did the outside and built new steps and things.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Me, who knew I could do that?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the thing is is you can do all those things even if you don't know how, because you can learn how to, or in my case, I in one house I hired somebody basically to tell me what to do.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I hired somebody to boss me around that knew how to do handyman work and projects.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I left the big stuff to the contractor, but the smaller skills stuff was a learning experience for me.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was flipping houses way before all the TV shows and all that stuff.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would look at houses and people would go, Oh my gosh, I would never buy this house.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: The carpet, it's ugly.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the paint, so uh the bathroom and the paint.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's the easiest thing to fix, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was looking at houses like, okay, this mall needs to come down, and that needs to be moved over there.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's nothing in the way, we could move the plumbing over here.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I would just imagine it in my house.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it was a lot of work, but I really got enjoyment out of it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And same thing, people, I would always buy the ugliest house in the neighborhood, and people would stop and say, Thank you so much for buying this house.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've made it beautiful, and you know, it would make me feel good.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'll I'll show on here.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when we're doing when I edit it, I'll I'll I'll show an image of the property I bought in Ottawa and turned it into a yoga studio.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be impressed.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, that's so great.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you encounter many hoarders?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have come across some hoarders, and it's kind of a hoarder really takes a therapist.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm working with a hoarder, even with my level of patience and calmness, it's it's an issue, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're not going to look at something, and and if I say, well, you know, usually I ask them questions.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, okay, you have three toasters.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you have three toasters?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if they can explain to me that they use the three toasters for three different things, then I'll be like, okay, or I'll try to find one thing that does all three, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And say, okay, if we get rid of these three and buy this one toaster that does everything, then that's gonna cut down.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: But typically it's just three toasters that all do the same thing, and the answers you get are not basically reasonable.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like, well, if this one breaks, I want another one.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but you don't need to hold on to this, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can buy a toaster pretty much anywhere.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it it becomes a more of a mental thing than a like, okay, there's no reasoning behind it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no reason why you should hold on to three toasters.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I am the first one to tell people, I'm like, I don't want to throw this away.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: We can donate it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I'll tell them, I'm like, Do you have a child or a family member that could use a toaster, somebody graduating from college?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to walk them through it because sometimes giving things away, if they're giving it to somebody that they know and love, it makes it that much easier.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's brilliant.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But hoarders are, they typically hold on to like, oh, well, we have all these jello containers that are perfectly good and I can reuse them, and then they're stacked to the ceiling.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like most people wouldn't need to hold on to that many, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: What I see a lot of most people do is those nice black bottom, clear top containers that you get from like Chinese takeout.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Well, I like to save these for when somebody comes over and I want to give them something and they don't need to return the container.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll say, Well, do you need 20 of them?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, could you hold on to four or five?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're going to get more.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh, yeah, I could do that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But Hoarder will say, No, I need to keep them all.
• 20:46
  unknown: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely need to keep them all.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if anyone is is is listening or watching and may have a few 20 of those things stacked up, it might just be an opportunity to do a little reflection and see, oh, maybe I can heed some of Michael's advice there and and and get rid of a few.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of switch gears a little bit.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: This section is where what I call the freedom from.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm going to ask you personally and then reflect on, you know, the service that you you provide.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when you started to shift in a more focused way into this work 10 years ago, you said, what did that shift give you freedom from?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like what were you able to sort of like leave in the in the reary mirror?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, all of my jobs in in in the past were very, you know, sitting in sitting at a desk, answering phone calls, doing presentations, some travel.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I loved all of that, but this pivot has given me the ability to use the creative side of myself.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I was getting that while I was working by redoing houses.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: But once I stopped doing that, once I became a dad and was like, okay, there's no time for this, that kind Got stifled a little bit.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it really allowed me to use the creative side of my brain.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I really enjoyed that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it gave me the freedom to set my own schedule.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was a single dad, it gave me some more flexibility to do, you know, to be like, oh, there's a play at noon at school.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can schedule myself around that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I could be present for my daughter and for the things that she needed from me.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And also, like, I wanted to be there.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to create an environment where I could be there for her.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Where dad was present.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what you said there is interesting because as men, you know, it's the left brain, right brain thing, you know, even though we might, and I even alluded to it earlier, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's that cliche about gay men being super creative and all that stuff.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that left brain sort of rational, logical approach to everything, you know, the language side of the brain, where, you know, everything's kind of orderly and linear.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we can do things to access the right side of the brain, the spatial visual aspect of ourselves, those creative juices, I think, are so important at this stage in life that we're tapping into creativity and getting out of maybe a little bit all that structured linear strategy kind of stuff that, you know, has worked for us in the in the in the last few decades, ideally.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: But now we can maybe explore and be more expansive on that creative side.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I look at things very, like I said before, very spatially.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of course, I work with all budget clients, but you know, I tell people as a joke, I'm like, oh yeah, I can spend your money.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can be like, oh, wouldn't it be great if you had a skylight here and and that there and the you know, bump out this wall.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And some husbands sometimes are like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because the wife's like, yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no doubt.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, sometimes I'm like, okay, I gotta pull back the reins a little bit.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but they always the the wives always have to ask the husbands.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I find that in coaching too.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I just have to check with yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And not to say that gay partners don't have to check into, but it's kind of cool.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess in terms of your, you know, what your client's experience, you you already alluded to this, but maybe just kind of putting a bow on it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: What did they get freedom from when they work with you?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's freedom from stress.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, their lives, I mean people's lives are so busy, and kids are overscheduled, and work is 24-7.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I first started in the industry, I tell people, you know, working in a professional environment, there was no cell phones, there was no laptops, it was all compute desk computers.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would leave work at five o'clock.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell people, I'm like, when I was in my late 20s, I was going to school at night, working full-time, and remodeling a house and training for a marathon, all at the same time.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how I did that, but part of that was I left work at five o'clock.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would paint or change out plugs or do something on the house until midnight, right?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'd be studying for an exam or something like that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: But now you can work at seven o'clock, eight o'clock, seven in the morning, you know, conference calls at 11 o'clock.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have conference calls with international clients.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be in the middle of the night.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, you have your kids.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so what falls to the wayside is the home, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Your house.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't have wives that stay at home or husbands that stay at home.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So then it adds on top of everything else they have to do.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: One of the reasons why I called my company Simply by Michael was because I wanted to simplify, help them simplify and make a process and a schedule.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you are that busy and you're doing things on your own, like, okay, Friday nights we're doing sheets, Saturday, we're doing clothes, and involve your kids in chores.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, they're a part of this family too.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So creating that environment because that's what I grew up with.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: My mother was amazing.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she worked full-time, cleaned her own house, every meal was cooked by her, everything was planned.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Birthday cakes were made.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: She never ordered that stuff, and she always made it look so easy.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: She had five kids.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had one kid.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember calling her, going, I don't know how you did this.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I had one kid.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, I mean, like, I'm driving myself crazy because I'm trying to keep up with the standards of what I grew up with and what I learned from her.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point in my career, I was managing people, I was working all the time.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you got home from work, I got my I got my daughter down for it, you know, for bed.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would go back to work, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or I would have to do laundry.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was sleeping like four hours a night trying to maintain this, and it just wasn't realistic.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like I said, all the things that I did helped me create this business.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I really genuinely want to help people simplify their life.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when you walk into a closet and everything's color-coded and organized and folded, it is a calming presence to know, like, oh, totally.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Everything I need here.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And just even like long socks are here, short socks are there, ankle socks are there.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell people, I'm like, I want it all folded and lined up and nice and neat.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if nothing else, we just need separation and bin, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's just thrown in there, that's okay.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I prefer.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you know all your long socks are in this bin and all your short socks are in the bin next to it, that helps you simplify that process.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't have the time or the ability to fold everything and make it look neat, at least it's separate.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: You have it in a separate category, a separate bin.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to help you in the morning get ready faster.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and have that sense of order and sense of calm.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us then, now that you're in this thing, this beautiful new professional organizer role.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like you're you're a pretty powerful guy.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Find the wisdom trust on school school.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.com.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Find us on Substack, the WisdomTrust.substack.com.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the Wisdom Trust 50.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: See you on those platforms.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just like moving and shifting, you know, there's some structural stuff going on.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just like moving furniture and such.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: What does that capacity in this new role?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not new because you've been doing it for 10 years, where you're at in this stage in your life, what does this give you freedom to move into?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like how are you evolving as a as a human, as a professional organizer?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I do organize, I design closets as well, because again, I look at things spatially.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So closets, garages, pantries, all that kind of stuff.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I can design it, install it, and then organize it, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of organizers, they come in, they can organize, but I can do the whole thing.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then also what how I'm evolving is we started doing house management work.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So on top of what we do, what I realized is that there are people that want to keep their house organized and neat all at all times, but they don't have the time to do that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we do house management.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we help with like scheduling trades and making sure air filters are switched out and your closet, your pantry, your kitchen stay organized.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we help them stay on top of those things.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one way that we've implemented kind of an adjustment or a tweak.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when I talk about my business, I tell people I'm like, there's kind of channels.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's the organizing, there's the closet design, we do holiday decorating because that helps us keep your holiday stuff organized because we want to organize those things as well.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then now we're doing house management.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we do kind of those channels.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, we do whole health, whole house organizing, where if you're moving, we will come in and organize the entire home at one time.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that usually is for a certain level of affluent client.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So on a smaller scale for the clients that don't have that high level income, we will do it room by room.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we have clients that we work with for years.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, now we're gonna work on here.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're gonna work in your closet, and then we're gonna go to your garage, and then we're gonna look at your attic, and then we're gonna go.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't want to do it all at once or don't have the budget for all at once, we can bite off small chunks.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm working with a client for the first time, usually I only schedule a two hour to four hour increments because after about two, three hours, people's eyes start to glaze over.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like they start to learn and they're learning new things and their brains trying to process it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And after a while, they're like, okay, I can't do this anymore.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: We need to stop.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll do a couple hours here and then we'll come back next week, and then we'll come back the week after that, or once a month, however, they want to do that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I've kind of evolved into this entity of like, we're trying to really simplify their entire life and their and run, help them run their household.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And tell tell us about you, your personal story of evolution.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, what what is this giving you freedom to as Michael?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is it advancing you as a person, a father, a partner, all that stuff?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that for me, it's definitely giving me gratification.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love what I do and I love helping other people.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I genuinely care about how other people receive what I do for them.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm trying to make it efficient as far as time.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they're on a budget, I try to think about those things as well.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: As a person, I just feel very fulfilled to do this.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like this is my gift, and I'm happy to share it with other people.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people all the time if I could do this for free, I would.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just really, really enjoy it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think as my business has grown, it's giving me some financial stability.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love to work and I love to do what I do.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I hope to continue to do it as long as I can.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So when people say, Oh, are you gonna retire?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 55 now.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna retire?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't really, I want to slow down.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to retire.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm all about let's retire the word retire.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's it's like I enjoy like what I do.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just want the ability to be like, oh, hey, we're gonna go to Europe for two weeks and take time away and know that the business is still running.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm hiring people, I mean, trusting them, giving them accounts for clients and keeping them on the maintenance program or the management program so that they have that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we have organizing jobs, we pull, we pull everybody in to do those bigger jobs.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what they like about it is that it gives them variety and every day is different.
• 34:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: What it sounds like is you've allowed for the growth of this to be pretty organic, right?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and as it's taken shape, you just, I would imagine you trust it in the next step and the next step.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times, and the reason I think this is so important hearing this story is because so many of us get to our 50s and we're like, I'm kind of done with that job, like like you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, but what do I do now?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there are so many interesting ways to tap into purpose.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily the Myers Brig stuff that we did in corporate, like let all that shit go.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's other ways that we can tap in and find out what's the soul, the deep driving soul desire that I have, you know.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're wondering, well, what does that look like, Lauren?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out and I can give you some some input.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you love getting out of bed to do what you do, and you're thinking, I would do this for free if I, you know, if I didn't have bills and things to pay and and and employees and stuff to to pay as well.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's when that's when life feels much more fulfilling, right?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and I just love the fact that that you're you're there.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's so rich and beautiful.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, I very much enjoy this.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there were there were definite things that set me on this path that were very difficult.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was a difficult time transitioning because I had a lot of turmoil in my life, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was with somebody for a long time, became a stay-at-home dad, that ended, I had to reinvent myself, and I was doing some jobs that were I enjoyed, but they weren't, I wasn't A, making as much money as I was before, and B, they were demanding more of me for less pay.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I was like, man, if I'm gonna have to work this hard for this little pay, then I might as well go out on my own and start this business.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, I kind of started it while I was working kind of weekends and evenings and doing stuff.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Such a great model.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Such a great model.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it just started to take off.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I even signed up to be an Uber driver in case I needed to make extra money, but I never, I never did, never had to.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, money was tight.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: I muscled through it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had a great partner supporting me.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just been that's so very fortunate.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And for those that might be out there pondering, like, yeah, I've got the itch.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to change.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, initially, when you make the change, it's gonna be, it's gonna be work, you know, like there is no magic wand.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, but but when you have that, like you're the resilience that you're talking about is just amazing.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and really, with a lot of the entrepreneurial stuff, is you know, the only failure is quitting.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes this is seen, I you know, I see this in the coaching world a lot, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: When people are at that point of of getting to that place where their business is going to take off, they're they're just like, oh, I'm done.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they pull the plug and they self-sabotage, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So good for you for sticking through it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's interesting because when when Paloma, when my daughter went off to college, my partner, he worked from home.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was debating whether or not I should try to find a job that I work from home because then we could travel and go to other cities together because he can work from anywhere.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, that would be kind of nice for us to do that.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the more I thought about it, the more I thought, man, I don't know if I could sit in front of a desk all day.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't do that anymore.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I am always on my feet, I'm always go, go, go.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have always been that way.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: But now that I'm not chained to a desk, going back to that, I was like, I don't, I don't think I could do that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm in my office one day a week at most, and I have to force myself to sit down and do stuff.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that that's so great too, because it's like the things that maybe you did or thought you had to do, you know, as a young man, and I'm speaking not to you, I'm speaking generally, you know, growing our careers and maybe going to these jobs that we weren't enamored of, but they were paying us well, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then all that stuff.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: All that stuff, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then at some point, like it's okay to change, you know, when we get too stuck in that comfort zone, we might end up 70, 80 years old, looking back, going, well, what if I when I had that thought at 53 and then turned away from it?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: What if?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to end up living with what ifs?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no guarantee.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, fulfillment and and feeling, you know, that sense of that purposefulness, that that sense of alignment with something in your soul that's so deep that it brings you joy.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be work, even.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: It could just be doing other things in the community, being of service, whatever it is, like find it.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of things that I do, and I don't, I don't know if I've coined this phrase or not, but like when people are having trouble getting rid of things that are sentimental, right?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that becomes a big counseling.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot of times when you're getting rid of stuff, it's like, yeah, I don't need that, I can get rid of that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then you get to the sentimental stuff.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's a lot of stuff, right?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of it is being held on to it because it was grandma's or mom's or dad's.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: But they don't have a connection to it, but they're keeping it because it was theirs.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I talk through it with them.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, well, what are the things that bring you joy in that this reminds you of your dad?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: It warms your heart.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: It, you know, when you look at it, it puts a smile on your face, right?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: We help narrow those things down, right?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of the examples I give people all the time is like, well, I inherited grandma's china, and we always had Thanksgiving at grandma's house, and she would always whip out the china.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I hate this pattern.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's ugly.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it was grandma's, so I need to keep it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I tell them, like, well, what if you kept one place setting or one teacup and let the rest go?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you take the teacup and you display it, or you put a succulent in it and put it on your window ledge.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see it, it puts a smile on your face.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the rest of it, let's say you offer a set, a place setting to each of your siblings or to all your cousins, or somebody that's gonna love it, a friend that just adores it, whatever.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's what I call like conscious donation, where you're not just dropping it off at a donation site.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to find someplace that can actually use it, like dropping off arts and crafts stuff that your kids did to a nursing home, or taking your record albums to an archival record place where they archive records for, you know, just for history's sake.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or dropping things off at a school.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people all the time.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sheets and towels, dog shelters, rescues, they need those kind of things because they put them in the kennel so the dogs can lay on, you know, something soft.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I didn't even think of that.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Comfort, old comforters, old, you know, like those kind of things, you know, dog shelters can use because they go through that stuff a lot because they're bathing dogs, they're, you know, they get injured, they need to wrap them, whatever.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when I talk about those things with clients, I say, you know, this takes a little bit more effort, but it will make you feel so good.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like donating, we donated my mom's clothes when she passed to a women's shelter.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they were focused on helping women get out of the fast food market and into like a corporate job.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we donated all my mom's work clothes and things like that to that organization so that it was helping somebody help themselves.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a firm believer in I want to help as many people as I can, but they also need to help themselves, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: You want to give them a hand up, not a hand out.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing that I I love about how you're sharing all of this is there's such a vibe of caring.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm very much like that too.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm all in this caring and sharing vibe.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think because of the state of the world right now, we need more of this kind of energy, right?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we care for each other?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do we show up for each other in in ways that are like the things you just said?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who I never thought of those things, right?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's amazing.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So let's um let's look a little bit about this idea of leveling up.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you're the guy who's doing this work that lights you up, that makes you feel so you know purposeful.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you maintain that?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any special practices that you have that maintain your energy, your vibrancy?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any suggestions that you have for people who might be transitioning?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be many things.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: It could be like considering downsizing and what do I do with all my stuff?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or it could be like transitioning work into a new thing because you've gone through that journey.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you maintain Michael at this stage in in this beautiful work that you're doing?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think so.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: For me, reading stuff, organizers, looking at things.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That other people are doing and really looking at product.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I spend a lot of time at the container store looking at product.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are, you know, looking at a product, you can that says it's for a bathroom, you can use it for your kitchen for to solve whatever problem it is.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of thinking outside of the box and looking at those types of problems and solving them.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: I do think of myself as a problem solver as well.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I'm looking at a client that, you know, we always have our shoes at the front door and we're redoing our closet.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And my question to them is okay, so we're making a space in your closet for all your shoes, but are they gonna actually end up there?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: If they're by the front door and that's where everybody puts it, maybe there's a coat closet where we can put shelves to put shoes in there, right?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're taking your shoes off at the front door and that's kind of a practice for your family, then let's try to solve that problem where it is because that's a little tweak, but moving it up to your closet is a big tweak, right?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big change in habit.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And habits do not change quickly or easily.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: They won't.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: It really takes an effort.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So so I try to look at those things and solve that problem.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: I try to do that with my own and do, you know, reading about organizing and listening to my customers and what they need.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I'm always learning.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the organizing community in general, I've always found to be very pleasant.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of organizers work together, a lot of them help each other out.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good community.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: For people that are changing or wanting to change a role or change what they're doing and pivot, I think that the thing that I looked at the most was, and I think it was an aha moment, is that all the things that I've done in my past have led me to this point.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I can look at all the jobs I did in the past and say, well, I I got this tidbit from this job.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned how to speak eloquently by doing presentations.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was petrified to do presentations when I was younger.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now I have no problem doing it.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I worked in retail and folding shirts and I worked in a home store, so it's folding towels and sheets and things like that.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: So learning those things.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: So on top of the things that I learned from from my mom, I honed those skills on and on.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that believing in yourself and going for, you know, going for it is, you know, is a great thing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's your passion and you want to do it, forge forward.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is reminding me again of the the right brain kind of expansive thing, right?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we're looking, we may not be able to put those dots together, like all those different sort of careers we had before we hit the main job for those whatever 10, 20 years or whatever, or maybe not.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've been, you know, sort of all over the place with your career.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter because there are commonalities, there are threads that that when you when you look at it, those threads are leading you somewhere, right?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't look at it, you're never gonna know.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: So so I think it's a matter of, yeah, trusting your gut, doing that deep sort of exploration.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it that really lights me up?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Be a little curious, like you've got that curious gene, you've got that explore say we call it in positive intelligence, the sage kind of explore thing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's explore things differently.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just because that thing is in the kitchen aisle doesn't mean it can't be in the bathroom or vice versa.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: So well, and it's in the matter of like uh when I was in, I was in mutual funds for many years.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I talk about like being in sales, I don't like that word because if you put something in front of me and you're like, sell this, I would not be very good.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have to believe in the product that I'm selling and believe it's gonna be helping that person and helping their life, whether it's at home or financially, or you know, so I kind of coin the phrase there of like, I'm a relationship person, I'm not a salesperson.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can't just sell you something and walk away from it and and then it falls apart.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would go back and fix it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right, even if it costs me money, I would feel responsible to make sure that what I'm selling you or what I'm doing is working for you.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm hearing there, and I think again, this applies really beautifully to this stage in life when people are considering shifting and changing, alignment is crucial.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not sure what that means, it's like, well, if you're doing a job where it feels like drudgery and you're kind of sick of it, you don't want to go every day, it's like, oh my God, another Monday, there's probably not alignment, right?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but once you start to move into something, and even you know, in those earlier days where it's fearful because it's new, there's you know, there's that trepidation.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: But once you start to grow into this new iteration and version of yourself and you feel soul aligned, that's when life starts to feel a lot different.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: The delayed gratification that we have in our system.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the retirement thing again that so frustrates me, right?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm doing this job, we're gonna save X amount of money.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time we're this year's old, we can go travel a lot.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, that's deferred gratification.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: What if you die next year?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there something you could be doing or tomorrow?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you could be doing now that's bringing you closer to all of the feelings you're gonna get from all that traveling?
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are those feelings you're thinking that that's gonna give you?
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: How could you have a little bit of those feelings now?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's a different way of thinking about it.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: The longer you wait, the harder it is, right?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: My goal is to keep moving because most people nowadays, it's like you don't just drop dead, right?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: That happens, but most people get sick and they have chronic illness and they and it just drags on and on and on.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you're healthy and move, you know, can move, and even if you can't, make it happen.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go to Paris and you're in a wheelchair, make it happen, right?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And be happy about it, right?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't complain.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just, yep, it's gonna be more difficult for me because I have a wheelchair and I'm gonna have to get somebody to help me or push me.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if it's if it's something you want to do, don't let something stand in your way.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that that uh I don't know if I told you when when we had our initial conversation, but one of the things that I'm passionate about and and what I'm envisioning for the next stage of my life, whatever that means, is creating co-living environments for aging gay men.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we can support each other in these things, like, hey, John, let's book a trip to Paris.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're getting a little bit frail, but I'm gonna help you and look after you, you know, like these kinds of things.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can have buddies, we can have that chosen family that we're supported by and nurtured by and growing, you know, beautifully into our age.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have friends, and I think I mentioned this to you as well.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have friends that we talked about buying a piece of land, putting little casitas on it, and doing like a main house with a pool and living there and supporting each other and have the ability to like, you know, close up your little house and and go away.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the main house, like if you have company or you have you want to do a pool party, like the big house takes care of it, right?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that creativity is where we need to go as a community.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to we can't rely on governments and municipalities and all that stuff to do this.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we've got to be start thinking more creatively because there aren't a lot of those things happening.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think they are slowly starting to happen.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: That thing about relying on on the public, system, it's not gonna happen.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even in my dad's situation, where after my mom passed, he was not doing well after she died, obviously.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: But even years later, he was living in the house alone.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: He was lonely.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: He decided he wanted to move to this 55 and older community.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, why do you want to sell the house?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sell the house.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: But he went ahead and did it, and it was the right choice for him, right?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so much activities, and he's doing stuff every day, and he has his own community, right?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have our own lives, we live in different states.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have siblings that live close to him, but they're not there every day.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so building that community for anybody of, you know, that's aging, I think is important.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: You want that community, you want that ability to feel like you can be independent.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as your company continues to expand and grow, you said it's it's morphing now.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that might be something that you, who knows, maybe you and I collaborate on something at some point.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is this is the whole thing about creating these conversations, right?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like many of my clients are older people that live on their own and are happy living on their own, but they can't change the light bulb.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: They can't coordinate this.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have a client that has a water service with the water bottles, and she doesn't want to switch to purified water.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we go over there once a month and change out her water thing, right?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: But while we're there, we're doing other things for her.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not just going over there to change her water.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we do many things.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at first her children were a little skeptical like, who's this person coming into your house and that you're raving about, right?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then they meet me and they're like, thank you so much.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because it gives them peace of mind.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's somebody's there to help them and do stuff.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and she'll call me, she's like, My printer won't work.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, I'll come over and we'll look at the printer.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, my cable went out.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Can you program my TV?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just basic stuff that a lot of times you're on the phone with your parents and you're like, oh my God, this is driving me crazy.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: You you're not understanding what I'm saying.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm there.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, let me just do it for you.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're appreciative of that.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into our little wrap-up bit here, which is the wisdom bit.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've got so much going on, and you've obviously learned a lot, grown a lot, and are now, you know, putting this out there in the world in such a beautiful way.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what wisdom advice sharing, you know, would you like to give to people who might be at a place where they're feeling maybe a little bit stuck, maybe a little bit like, not so sure?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first thing is take a deep breath, right?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's overwhelming.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're looking at a space, let's say a garage, for example, and you're looking at the space, it gets overwhelming, right?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than look at the entire space, look at part of the space or one box, and just take one box into the house, get a glass of wine, sit down, turn on a movie, and just go through the one box, right?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's all you get done that day, that's okay.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing a box a day or a box a week, give yourself an attainable goal and you'll get there.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: So simple.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like I'm all about elegance and simplicity, right?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we can see the forest and forget to see that there are individual trees there that, you know, yeah.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you look at a whole space, sometimes it's overwhelming, or even in anything that you're doing, if you're remodeling the house, if you're organizing it, if you're if you're getting ready to move, you know, it can be overwhelming.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like when people are moving, I tell them three boxes, do three boxes a night and start as early as you can because you don't need to use your china.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Pack your china up.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to use all of your clothes.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to use all of your picture frames, all the decor stuff, the mixing.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: All that can be packed up.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so you start with the with the things that you're like, okay, I don't really like I love this stuff, but I don't need to function with this stuff.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you do that round first, right?
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have the time, then go room by room and say, okay, let's purge.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not gonna need this, not gonna need that.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna sell.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna have four bedrooms, we're gonna have two bedrooms.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get rid of two bedrooms worth of stuff.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the earlier you start, the better.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: But again, there's gonna be a round of purge at the other end, no matter what you do.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you get rid of everything.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a couple rounds of purging.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best things I tell people too, especially if you have trouble, is give yourself boundaries on things.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I love reading books, let's say, and I have 12 bookcases, and my new house only has three.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have to purge.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so by setting the boundary of three bookcases, that's your goal.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have to because you can't add more bookcases because there's no room, right?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you do, it's gonna look too cluttered or too much.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: Give yourself boundaries.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you love tablecloth and you have a whole closet full and you need 12, right?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Give yourself a boundary.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Buy a bin or a basket or a container and say, okay, whatever fits in this box is what I'm keeping.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: And at first it's easy, right?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: But as you're getting down further and further, you're like, well, I might want to, well, I might want to.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the type of person that you are, some people need an extra step.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I tell people, okay, if you got rid of these are the ones that you want to keep, but these are kind of like I want to hold on to these, I'm not ready to let them go.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: Then you put them in a bin and put them in the garage or the attic, write the date on it.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: And in two months or three months, if you don't need it, want it, miss it, then you know you can let it go.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: So those things are kind of baby steps for people that are struggling with getting rid of stuff.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: So any that's all wonderful and really practical, but like you said, the practical isn't always obvious to act upon.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: But any wisdom nuggets on the personal level, on the the you the individual person, not so much the the organizer level.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just believe in yourself and try to be positive, try to keep moving.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm a I'm definitely a positive-minded person.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's not easy for everybody, but I think that if you try to look at the positive, it really does make a difference.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a muscle, right?
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't go to the gym and lift dumbbell every every once in a while and expect to get a bulging bicep.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: But if you do a little bit every day and regularly, similarly, because I was the angry guy for most of my life, right?
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's like when I look back at that, I'm I'm horrified, you know, but meditating and using different tools and techniques where where that energy gets to be released and displaced and out of the way so that then you can see, you know, more positivity in this world, which is a really hard reality that's going on out there for a lot of us, right?
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we how do we tap into that which is essential and beautiful and joyful?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we can.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that so I tell this story all the time.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when my daughter was little, I'm always looking at things positively.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: She always looks at the negative, right?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: So she's the glass is uh is half empty, I am the glasses half full.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so one day she was going to school, she wasn't feeling well.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Sweetheart, why don't you try to go to school?
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because she was stressed about some test.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Go to school.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't feel good, go to the nurse and I'll come pick you up.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, okay.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so we get there, and I said, You have to think positive that you're gonna have a good day and that you're gonna feel good.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I'm positive I'm gonna have a bad day.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just, I mean, her in a nutshell, right?
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: She looks at things differently than I do, which is okay.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that was always a struggle for for me because I'm always like, everything's gonna be okay, things happen for a reason, and you know, not everybody's like that.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's helped me too, working with clients that don't look at things the same way.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think too, at this stage in our lives, it it it becomes a little easier to let go of the shit that we can't, yeah, that have control over, right?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like stuff's gonna happen.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we do have agency over who we are, how we're showing up for life and and how life is impacting us.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's a choice, right?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, for sure.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if folks wanted to connect with you, maybe get a little bit of in insight.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: You shared your emails.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put that up on the screen, simply by michael at outlook.com.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if they were to, if people were to reach out to you, you might be inundated with all of this wisdom you've been sharing.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of things can they can they expect?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or what would you like them to ask?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, sure.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I mean, initially I do consultation, you know, we talk, talk through what their needs are, what their struggles are.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's a no-judgment zone.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, whatever they're dealing with, I'm happy to try to help solve the problem, right?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: And work through it.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: And whether that's with me or with another organizer or, you know, family member, however, they want to do it.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: My goal is to just help them simplify their life.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're not in, so you're where?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Share with us.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in Austin, Texas.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're in Austin, Texas.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not in that proximity.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something you could help them with virtually, like if it was someone, you know, far away?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: We can do a virtual consultation.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do travel.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I've done projects for people in Connecticut, in Dallas, Houston, California.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I will travel to them if if they, you know, if they want me to come out there.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, it just depends on what their goal is, but I'm happy to help them get to that point.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: Get to that point.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's like I said, whether it's with me or with somebody else.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you were a sounding board for them to get some ideas generated, giving them a consultation of some sort, what have you.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really, really pleased that that we were able to have this conversation as part of the well-mith and well-being series because I think it's so important on so many levels.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: This community grows when we show up for each other.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: Watch for other content on our YouTube channel, and stay connected to us through our school platform.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we engage and are building our community.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: For many of us, it's the moment life finally begins to open up.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not alone in this, we're in it together.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time on the Wisdom Trust.