Latest / APD Pod Squad / Season 2, Episode 6; The Roast of Chief Lamb, with Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp, Deputy Chief Sean Aardema, Captain Jonathan Brown, Captain Joe Silberman, and Lt Geoffrey Rollins

Transcript

Season 2, Episode 6; The Roast of Chief Lamb, with Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp, Deputy Chief Sean Aardema, Captain Jonathan Brown, Captain Joe Silberman, and Lt Geoffrey Rollins · APD Pod Squad

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_06: This is the APD Pod Squad.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome to a very special episode, The Roast of Chief Lamb.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_06: Stories and a salute to 28 years of service.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_06: Chief Mike Lamb will be in the hot seat and will be joined by some of his longtime co-workers: Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp, Deputy Chief Sean Artima, Captain Jonathan Brown, Captain Joe Silberman, and Lieutenant Jeffrey Rollins.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_06: Chief Lamb is retiring after almost three decades with the Asheville Police Department.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_06: That's a long time, and there's a lot of stories.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_06: In the next hour, we'll hear some of the most memorable.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, full disclosure, he seriously didn't know I was planning this.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_06: I hope you enjoy The Roast of Chief Lamb.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_06: I'm joined now for the final time on the APD Pod Squad, or at least the final time in his current position as the Chief of Police, Mike Lamb.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_06: So, Chief, 26 years.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_06: Well, 26, not as chief.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yes.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_06: See where I'm going with this?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_06: I see where you're going with it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_06: So 26, not as chief.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_06: Two as chief.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_06: How fast did these two years go or how slow?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um dependent on the day, because in the moment, like you know, the day Helene hit, it was slow because there were so many things that were impactful.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: But looking back on it, it was just one thing back to back to back to back between the rescues that were taking place, the storm and its impact on the city.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: But then once we got in the EOC, it was it went so fast.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: But in the moment, it felt so long because we're getting news like, you know, the North Fork Dam's getting ready to fail, and like that would have killed thousands of people.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: B Tree Dam was getting ready to fail.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: They said they were going to have to evacuate Mission Hospital.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: All these just hugely catastrophic things coming in.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: And in the moment, it felt like it just wouldn't stop.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: It felt like it was just it would last forever.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_04: But just looking back, the last two years have really been a whirlwind.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's gone by fast.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_06: You know, specifically with Helene, as bad as it was, there was a whole lot of what-ifs that could have made it a whole lot worse.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_06: You just mentioned a couple of them.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_06: You think about some of the other things that could have happened on top of what already did.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_06: And it and I can imagine those days were just, you know, incredibly stressful.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_06: You still got your hair, so I'm kind of Oh, yeah.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I thought that might have fallen out during that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: I've I've got a few more grays.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_06: I looked in the mirror this morning, I'm like, the grays are starting to come in now.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_06: You see those uh like the presidential photos, like Abraham Lincoln before he was president, and then like right after before he died, obviously, you know, after the Civil War, it looked like he aged twenty years in three years.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_06: Have you felt like that a little bit?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_06: I know you're still in great shape, you're working out.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, physically and all that, are you still feeling good?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, still feeling good.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: Hitting the gym every day.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: I uh uh thanks to Matthew Eichmann, our wellness coordinator, he's just just a wealth of information and so supportive.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um I started working out with him, gosh, over six months ago, and have seen a lot of good, good gains from it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's funny because I've had bad knees since I played high school football, I've had surgeries, dislocated my knee in high school, uh playing football for Reynolds, and right like right now my joints feel better than ever.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like for some reason, heavy lifting makes the joints feel better.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's odd.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: I never would have thought it would have done that.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Powell Now, if someone does want to uh kind of look at your career and what you look like when you were young until now, we do have those photos on the wall, all of our different composite photo boards.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_06: I saw the early years of Chief Lamb was the uh the mustache.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_06: So when did the stash go?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_06: What when did you lose the stash?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_04: So it was funny.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was uh gosh, I think it was 2013 or 2014.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: I shaved the stash.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: Before I became a police officer, I had a goatee.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: I had long hair, had actually had hair down to my shoulders and a goatee.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: And the compromise with my wife was like I would cut the hair, but I would shave like the goatee, but keep the mustache.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: So the mustache stayed because of my Mexican heritage, like it didn't grow together.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like I had mu I had I had hair on my upper lip, like on the corners of my mouth.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Almost looked like Snoopy's cousin from uh from the peanuts uh comedy.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_06: Wasn't it Olaf?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_06: It was, yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_06: I thought it was Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_06: You know, now if you ever needed to do a sting operation where a like a porn star, for example, was needed in that particular, I'm not saying that's what I'm just saying.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you that.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's funny because when I shaved the stash in 2013 or 14, I can't remember exactly when.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: When my daughter saw me, she started crying because she just didn't recognize me.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and the family was like, Oh wow, you look so different.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: But now if I talk about growing the mustache back, they're all like, no, no, mustache is not coming back.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_06: I I accidentally shaved my goatee.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_06: I've never not had facial hair around my wife.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: And as of this year, we'll be married 25 years, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_06: So you include the times we were dating or whatever, it goes up to 27, 28 years.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_06: She'd never known without facial hair.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_06: There we are on our honeymoon, and I accidentally clipped off my goatee.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_06: I I just I had didn't have the guard on.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_06: You know, when you do the trim, and it so I just the guard was off for whatever reason.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_06: And so I'm like, oh well, okay, it'll grow back, right?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_06: So I come down from upstairs and she's just looking at me like I'm somebody else.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_06: And she's like, I'm not touching you until your beard grows back.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_06: I'm like, it's our honeymoon.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_06: Can you make an exception?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_06: So as you look back at your career, though, almost three decades, and you've already mentioned Helene, which was the big thing the last two years.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_06: Do you almost market kind of in eras or uh the big events?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_06: Is it the big things that you remember, like, you know, this happened and this such year, the larger things?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_06: Obviously, 2020 was a big year.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_06: What were the other ones over the course of your career that really stand out?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_06: The big things that just changed everything.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell 28 years is a long time.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I I remember reading a New York Times article recently that said if you're going to break up your your years in in chunks, you know, looking at your your past, they recommended seven-year chunks.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so for me, that's uh when I was attacked by a guy with a box cutter in May of 2018 and and had to shoot him and was on admin leave, you know, for for that summer, spent time in recruitment during that time, the recovery process from there because I had to have surgery for injuries I sustained during the during the incident.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, going forward from there um to being the Charlie District Commander to 2020 when uh I was still the Charlie District Commander and we had we were at a 10% overhire on June 1st of 2020.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: So we we had a fully staffed, overstaffed police department.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, we had COVID that hit, which changed like the way we were doing everything.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like we didn't go out, we responded to most calls unless it was an emergency, just over the phone.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_04: Then of course we had the the riots that started in June, four days of of straight riots.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: By the grace of God, none none of the APD were uh were injured.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there were chunks of concrete, yeah, uh bottles, bricks flying by officers' heads, and and again, just the you know, thank God nobody nobody was seriously injured.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um although we did have one officer that got caught on fire, but thankfully his he was wearing his protective equipment and that you know the fire didn't spread and he he was not injured.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um but then so we had the COVID, the riots, and then I think that fall of 2020 I was promoted to captain over community engagement.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh community engagement was uh was an amazing uh assignment also.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_04: Someone's knocking on the door, Chief.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_06: Hold on one second.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_06: Come on in.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, hey, look, it's Captain Jonathan Brown, and Chief, this is the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_06: Oh no.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I didn't know.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_06: So did we did we keep the secret up long enough?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I had no idea.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's obviously out now, it's gone.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_06: But this is the part that I was hoping to get was the surprise factor.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, man.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bunch of lightweights.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have anything to worry about.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_06: So as Charles Dickens referred to the best of times and the worst of times, Chief Lamb was just mentioning some of the worst of times within 2020 and all of that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_06: So now, for the next five or six people, however long this takes, I think we're gonna go back with some of the best of times.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, good.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_06: So this is the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_06: We do want to warn some listeners, you may hear some bleeps occasionally.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_06: We we want our guests to be as candid as possible and be as open as possible about the stories that occur.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_06: So rest assured, anything that you say, it won't be willed and used against you, it'll be bleeped.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_06: So just go ahead and and and let a rip.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_06: JB, as we call you around here, Captain Jonathan Brown, thank you for joining us.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_06: How long have you known this guy?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me, Rick, and it's a pleasure to be here to roast Chief Lamb.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this, and one of the unique things about our career and having a police chief that I actually work the road with, and it's such a cool aspect of my career.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You do acquire some stories, uh you do acquire some experiences, so but it has been a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to share experiences with the chief at different levels through the organization.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the stories, or I guess one of the things that I remember most is when we were working the road together, there was a point in time where Chief Lamb became this superhero amongst those in the community.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how it happened exactly, but he acquired this superhero just aura about him, and you would hear it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you would hear it in the community.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: You would go into the community and and people would talk about Lamb and him running people down and just this idea that he was hiding out in the trees and he may jump out of a tree and you know, just appear out of nowhere, and they they ascribed this superhero sense to him.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was fascinating to watch it because it wasn't just street talk.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: People believed this.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_06: There was graffiti, wasn't there, like that objected to his kind of presence, shall we say?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_06: In certain walls, I understand.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: There was a certain level of um I I'll say respect because I think there was respect out in the street with with this.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: But there was also a level of you better be careful, you don't want Lamb to chase you down because he's gonna catch you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the interesting part about it, too.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: With that side of this superhero side of it, there was also this sense of, yeah, he's gonna run and chase you down, but at the end of the day, it's like this superhero idea of who he is, but there's also this Andy Griffith aspect of who he is where you you get arrested, you get taken to jail, but you also almost feel like you've been taken to church in a sense.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you get the full full spectrum.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_06: Chief, you remember it exactly the same way, I'm sure.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_06: It's all lies.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_06: It's all it's all.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_06: I've heard some of these stories too.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_06: So it that's one of the things I've enjoyed actually sitting up on the third floor sometimes is with when we have the slow moments, which uh you know how this job is.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's it's fast, it's slow, it's it's it's all over the place, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_06: And so in some of the slow moments, some of you guys will just kind of you'll be sitting there and the stories start.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_06: I love hearing these things because they're hysterical.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_06: Some of the b is this what you're gonna remember, like the stories, the people, the characters?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and there's you know, there's so many stories and so many people that we we interacted with, and somebody will tell one story, and then that leads you to remember, oh yeah, I remember that time, and then you've got a different twist to it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh maybe between foot chases, car chases.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you jump out of a tree on one person and then it kind of grows.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_06: Did you really jump out of a tree?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um maybe.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know how the urban legend kind of grows over time.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And by the end of, you know, a period of time, it's Lamb was climbing uphill both ways in full gear and doing all of the things and you know.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: But the funnest one I remember was we were doing a jump out in Hillcrest departments.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: There was a complaint of drug dealing, we had undercovers watching, and there was these, there were these guys that were selling cocaine in front of one of the one of the buildings that was close to the entrance.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: And uh we were like, How are we going to get in there without being seen?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: So we commandeered a city bus.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_04: We actually had a bus driver that volunteered, and the city bus drove us into Hillcrest, stopped at the stop where the drug dealers were, opened the door, and I don't think my feet hit the ground.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: I I leapt straight from the top step and tackled the first guy.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: And the other guy was like, What's going on?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then the other guys jumped out of the bus and grabbed a hold of him and we took him in custody.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: And the bus drove off.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember people standing outside like, man, they just appeared out of thin air.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, where did they come from?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_04: And nobody nobody knew that we came in on the city bus.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_06: Was it planned at all with the city bus, or did you just jump on?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, no, no.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_06: Like that scene from Seinfeld, where remember he jumps and he starts driving, or you just gotta keep ringing the bell and he keeps driving the bus?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_06: That's kind of what I imagined.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_06: Except you arrested somebody.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 12:53
  unknown: Exactly.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Rick, I'll end with this.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: All of the stories and all of that being said, here's uh something that that will always stick with me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: When I started as a brand new police officer, Chief Lamb and there was a there was a small collection of other officers that were in his hiring group were always an example to me as a new officer coming into the building.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: They were an example of how to carry yourself professionally, an example of how to maintain your fitness level, which he's done his whole career, and an example of how to approach and stay engaged with the job and stay safe and stay mentally sharp and do all of the things to protect yourself, but also serve your community at the highest level.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that I'll always remember remember about Chief Lamb.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome, yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_06: Fantastic.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_06: Well, the roast of Chief Lamb continues.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_06: Do we know who's next?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: All right, let's see.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_06: Let's open the door.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_06: So, Chief, this is the big surprise that I had for you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, nice.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_06: The roast of Chief Lamb continues.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_06: Next on the dockets is Deputy Chief Sean Artemis to contribute to the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_06: We started off with Captain Jonathan Brown.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome, Deputy Chief.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_06: Thanks for having us.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_06: Happy to be here.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_06: All right.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_06: I promise I won't embarrass you too much.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_06: As I as I warned the listeners prior, if you feel like you gotta just let it rip and anything with objectionable language, I do have a bleep button.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and I will use it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_06: It won't be that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_05: So your memories, what are they?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: Uh a lot.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_05: So Mike started, what, about a year-ish?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_05: 98 before me.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_05: So I was at A B Tech in the criminal justice program, and and back then the B L E T room was directly across the hall from where all the criminal justice classes were.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_05: The APD officers were the only ones that wore uniforms.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_05: So back then in B L E T, you actually wore a Class A A P D uniform, basically what he's wearing now in the long sleeves with a tie.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: Just with no vest, no belt.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember him and you know, some of his classmates being over there and thinking, like, yeah, that's gonna be that's gonna be me one of these days.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: And it came pretty quickly.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_05: Go way back.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: That was shoot.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because it was Yeah, the spring of ninety eight.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: We got promoted to sergeant on the same day.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: Is that right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_06: So we're going back to the previous century.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: So how old are all of us right now, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_06: Because that's I arrived in town in 99 too.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_06: So back in the 20th century is when all of our stories kind of here began.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_06: And so you know you're aging when you're doing it that way.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_06: See, I sit outside with you once in a while on a lovely sunny day, yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_06: In the side of as they call the building 81, and most of the stories you tell me we can't share.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_06: But of the ones you can.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_05: Let's hear some of those.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, there's there's many of them.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, like like I said, I'm not going to embarrass them too much.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: It's a roast, after all.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_05: I said too much.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I gotcha.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_05: Let's roll the clock back to the time that Mike and I went to police bike school together.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um what year would this have been?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even remember.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh two?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, probably O2.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: Twenty years ago.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_05: So it's a week-long class, and you know, it has its parts that are a little bit difficult, but you know, we all managed to power through it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: Some of us, and I'm gesturing at him right here, more than others, it was easier for us.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_05: But in any event, uh after we graduated from bike school, I got to experience a sight of Mike Lamb that few people have ever seen.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: Because most people know him as an extraordinarily empathetic and caring individual.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: And he is, except for this day.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: We're both working downtown Ogmont.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: We're both on bikes.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm following him around because you know he's the senior guy and he's frankly more fit than me.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_05: And so he he's leading the way.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: We go up Battery Park Avenue, and he decides that we're gonna ride down the stairwell that runs from Battery Park Avenue to Wall Street.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I know it's right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_05: It's kind of steep.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: It's not just kind of steep, it's also long.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: It is long.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: You learn new stuff and you want to see if you can do these skills that you just learned and cause you might need to use it at some point.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_05: Right, I get you.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_05: So here he goes, takes off.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: Like textbook, man.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I wish that Will was there with a camera and could have filmed it and you could have showed it in like these classes moving forward.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like, this is the textbook way to do this.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: So here comes Sean.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I gotta keep up with Mike.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't know if you're aware, Rick, because I wasn't aware until I became intimately familiar with it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_05: And that is on the right side of that stairway going down is a very roughly textured stucco wall.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_05: I guess now that I think about it, I recall.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_05: So I get to the I think last set of stairs, and I was going a little bit too slow, and the handlebars turned 90 degrees and launched me into that stucco wall.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_08: Ooh.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_05: And it basically looked like somebody took a cheese grater from my shoulder all the way down past the elbow and my arm, dripping blood and all of that.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you might be asking, where was Mike?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_05: So where was Mike?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_05: He was gone.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_05: He laughed and said that sucks.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_05: And Mike rubbed off.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: It did look like a cheese grater went to his own.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: Did you eventually come back?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_05: He eventually came back and made sure I was okay.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, his his initial reaction was like, ooh, bet that hurts.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: And off he goes.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_05: So much for never leave a man behind.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: Did you require medical attention that day?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh you know.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_05: Some hydrogen peroxide.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you'll be fine.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_05: It was a little too much for band-aids, but you know.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: Rub a little dirt on it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: I was the back of the rubber dirt on it days.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_05: We're roughly the same age, so he's a couple years older than me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_05: But yeah, we we both were raised in that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_05: It's definitely not my first bike crash in my life.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: I think it hurt my pride more than anything.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: Because, you know, again, Mr.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_05: Textbook here, and here I am, you know, leaving literally my mark in blood on a wall in downtown Ashville.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_06: Be grateful it happened when it happened and the year it happened, because you know if it happened now, there'd be a whole bunch of people around with their cell phones.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_06: I'd be on TikTok.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_06: You'd be all over.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_06: You'd be famous.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_06: And he'd be on there too, laughing at me.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_06: That's true.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_06: So that might have been a good one.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: I got my payback about a year or two later, though, because I was in front of the Vance Monument when it was still there, and I was pedaling through the intersection and my chain broke.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: So next thing I knew, I was laying on my side in the intersection.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: And as the light turns green, traffic has to slam on his brakes to keep from hitting me.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: So you spend any amount of time on a bicycle, you're gonna crash.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: Can you tell me that one later?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_05: No, I can't.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_05: I'll tell you later.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: I may have crashed into a vehicle once or twice.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe or may not.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_06: You weren't on a busy else was on a big thing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_06: That's how many stories there are.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_06: That's the thing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, when you gently remove a protester from a bicycle, it tends to leave a mark.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: Things happen.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_05: But you know, all kidding aside, is known Mike a long time.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: And when I I wasn't exaggerating earlier when I said probably one of the most empathetic and compassionate people that I know.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure we will definitely have more time to talk later on.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_05: But since this is a recording, I just want to to make sure that you understand that I I appreciate you and I'm gonna miss you.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: You too, Sean.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_06: I'll miss you terribly.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_06: Fantastic.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_06: Any other parting words, Deputy Chief?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_05: No, I mean congratulations.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, thank you.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_06: You've only got a couple more years yourself.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh not even that long.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: About a year and a half.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_06: You got the countdown clock on your phone like some people do.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: I got one more full year I have to survive.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't have it, and I've got two weeks.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_06: You never put that on there?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_06: You know the people I know that have that countdown clock on their phone?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: It's like Well, Captain Silverman used to have we said it looked like the space shuttle or like you know mission control, because he had like five computer monitors at one time.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: He had one single monitor, and all it was was a countdown clock to the second.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: Of when he retires.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, that's um that's almost a moving target, though, isn't it?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's never exact because of your hours that you work and the comp thing and whatever.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_05: Knowing him, he probably plugged in some kind of out of the way.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: Some kind of the formula.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_06: Is he next on the docket?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_06: Who's next?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_06: Let's let somebody else back up.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_06: Chief, let's find out who is next as the uh as the string continues.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_06: Speaking of perfect.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_06: Speak of the devil, and he appears.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's funny because all three of us were detective sergeants at the same time.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what Sean was talking about with Joe's like five monitors.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: It was like a almost like a like a movie complex because you had you couldn't see Joe because it was just a wall of computer monitors that were there.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_04: Say, Joe.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: And he'd kind of peek up over the monitor and Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_06: Captain Silberman joins us now and the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_06: We were speaking about countdown clocks to retirement.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_06: And the first name they brought up was you.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_06: And they said you definitely have it on your phone, on your computer, your the countdown to retirement down to the second.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Down to the second.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was uh just to see if it could be done, and it it can be.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And some of it too is it's appropriate to talk about it here as we're telling stories, and it's not a countdown to when I get out of here.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost grim.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, how much time do I have left?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because you talk to people uh who do other things and they don't have stories like that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I've noticed that across my career, like the best stories come from the hardest times.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I try and think about that when you're going through hard times, that this is gonna make for a great story later on.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And most of the time it's right, it does.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_06: It can help you get you through it maybe at the time.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is hard not to, as I approach retirement, I see that clock ticking down to know like, and I got like holidays figured in, weekends, to know that that's that's the amount of time I have left.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And seeing Mike go, and even though he's gonna be doing other things and he'll get stories from that too, it's it's different.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it is just the anxiety is building.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, because I I don't I don't see you ever retiring.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, this it's you love the job so much, and that's the whole reason I don't have a countdown clock, is just because I am retiring and I'll be doing something else, but it's like this job is so fun and so unique and so stressful, and it's hard and it's good, and you end up loving it because it's I mean, you're really making a difference in people's lives when somebody comes up to you and says, like, you saved my life, and you're like, all I did was make an arrest that day.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's surreal.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_06: It's people use the roller coaster reference for a lot of things.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_06: But I I think with this job, it's probably about the most appropriate because the highs are really high, and the lows can be low.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, and there's and there's a lot of in-between.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yes.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: The the core of that clock, though, is to remind me if the sea is too smooth or it's too easy, I'm wasting those seconds.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_06: I have a mental image of uh us needing like officer assistance to drag you out of here on like your last day, because you're like, I'm not going.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_06: I'm I'm jumping.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna need a mental health provider.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_06: So how long does uh your history with Chief Lamb go back to?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty far back.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: We spent the most time together together in the same room as detective sergeants.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's sort of part of the story I'm gonna tell, or at least the reason it gets started.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: The story is years and years later, is we had promoted up and out of it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Mike was a lieutenant, I think, over the downtown unit, uh, which right up his alley, riding bikes around and a lot of public interface.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I had become a detective lieutenant for a brief time, and then I had promoted out of that, and I was a newly minted captain, and they put me in an admin role, and I missed operations terribly.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like it's you don't get stupid stories.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And one day after work, I had picked up a foot patrol shift just to get out of the office and get moving.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And a call came in that there was a large protest group had gotten into City Hall and was occupying it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know where this is going?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, I love it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is a great story.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they were occupying City Hall.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_06: So what year would this have been?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_06: Uh do you know offhand?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: 2019.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_06: It was a climate change group.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, of course.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And very sweet kids, Warren Wilson students, my album matter.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they'd come with their attorney.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody was super nice.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh or I went up and joined, Mike was already up there with uh sergeant and the downtown unit, just sort of watching everybody mill about.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: They had brought like drinks and food in and they were all just hanging out.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I asked Mike, like, you know, what's going on?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he had a bit of a conundrum.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: They were doing a civil disobedience thing.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Their attorney sort of briefed him in.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: They intended to come here and get arrested as uh to basically get attention to their cause.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_08: Gotcha.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they uh had a certain designated people, and it wasn't one or two.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think there were like 25 people that planned to go to jail that day.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily you would think, okay, easy thing for the police.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all want to go to jail, let's go to jail.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: One, it's an undertaking and it takes staff, and two, is it really right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't hurt anybody.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Mike was working with the city manager's office, and the opinion from the city manager's office was we don't want to go to them to go to jail, we just want them to go.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they could come back during like city council meeting and do their, you know, get their time.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, we prefer you not take them to jail.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: But they didn't want to go.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So Mike and I put our heads together, and he was like, Well, we we'd kicked around, and there's unarresting is a bad policy as a police officer to intentionally arrest when you know you're gonna quote unquote unarrest.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: But along that vein, we started thinking, like, what if we made them think they were under arrest and we could just be really careful with language and how things were presented.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: And Mike and I then went out and started like planning those seeds.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, are you sure you want to go to jail today?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like feel for your cause.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna be able to help you do something.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And Mike spoke to uh the their attorney, who I won't mention by name the most, as again an incredibly sweet person.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And just if you know Mike Lamb, you know the like level of charisma he has selling anything, or you would buy anything from that man.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we go through and everybody at this point is now much calmer because we've essentially agreed to everything they want.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: Without saying you're they're gonna be under arrest.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Without saying that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: Language, it's all about language.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually we go up to the attorney and we say, okay, we're about ready to I think everybody's ready to leave.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Whoever doesn't want to be arrested should go now.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: He briefs the group, he tells them what to do, then he comes back to us, he's like, How are you gonna get them to jail?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, jail's just behind this building.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So whoever w I mean, like, we don't need to put them in any kind of prisoner transport vehicle, we don't need to put them in the back of police cars.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think we need to put them in handcuffs.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: If they're wanting to go to jail, we could just walk out of the building, they could walk over to jail.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Foreshadowing.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of caught it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's like, okay, that's that's probably the right thing to do.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that is probably the right thing to do.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he makes announcements for them, he briefs them in on like how to behave and what to do.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then he and a large group of them leave.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I ask everybody, this is like an orderly group of students.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: I ask everybody to stand up, and they stand up.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, hey, if you have any trash, would you please throw it away now?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And they throw away some drink bottles and stuff.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, just fact about the jail.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you go to jail, no matter what, they have to book in.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you have any piercings, you have to take them out.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I take out all their piercings.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And there were some other things we we were really trying to like sell it without saying it.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we we told them like going down the steps would be dangerous, handcuffed.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we're not, you know, you have to go down the steps and make it out.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: You don't want anyone to trip.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: We don't want any to fall.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: But we were so convincing to them that there was one officer there who was getting flex cuffs ready because he thought we were really going to arrest him.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it was hard for us to keep straight faces.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_06: He was not privy to the plan.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: So oh, I should mention this.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: The only people who knew about the plan were Mike and I.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_06: Aha.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_06: I could see where that would be confusing to even the officers.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: That one officer, and he was the less his heart, he was the last person to get it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um we make this announcement like, hey, we we don't want to put you in the elevator, like, we'll just walk down the stairs.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: You all good with walking down the stairs?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then we go up and down the line asking, like, we just want to be sure it's not too late.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sure you want to go to jail today?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And each one of them said, like, yes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we go down the stairs, and then they're all like sort of implying, like, okay, we'll be handcuffed now, and we're like, we don't really need to do that.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna walk outside, and the jail's behind this building, so if we want to go to jail, we could just all walk over as a group.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we go outside, and Mike's in front with me, and the officers are flanking them in one line as they go out, and they all are like singing, like they're all like singing the song together.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: They like to sing, they're protests.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and Mike and I are out front, and as soon as the back of the line clears the door, Mike and I both button hook and we start fast walking and snatching officers as we go and shoving them inside.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we all bring them inside, and I immediately am like, click, door's locked.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna do it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we're all watching from the glass door, and they're all like still standing there, not really sure where to be led or what's going on.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that officer with the flex cuffs, I remember he's still like standing like a little event, ready to go.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's alert, he's ready.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody else got it at that point.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then they turned to him like it was funny.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_06: Did he require a specific explanation at that point?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I think his teammates filled him in.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: How about the students?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_06: What happened?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it was just it was so funny watching them because they all get out and they look at each other dumbfounded.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: Because I remember before we shut the door, I said, have a nice evening, and then pulled the door shut, and they were just they look at their attorney, their attorney looks at them, and they just don't know what to do.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: There was I heard her voice.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: One of the girls in the group shouted as soon as she realized it, and it was the the reckoning, she was like, Oh man, you guys, they got us.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there's more than a little duping delight in that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_06: Did they like tap on the window at all?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, no.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: They know they were fools.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they just kind of slowly slumped shoulders and you know, the officers sort of turned to us and like, what do we do now?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's easy.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: We find the back way out of this place.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_06: That's a great story.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_06: I I wonder if those kids tell that story.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know we tell it, we're proud of it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the end, like, you know, I've dealt with people who really need to go to jail.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I've dealt with people that didn't really need to go, but I had to take them.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And those kids were neither of those things.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, at the end of the day, they still kind of accomplished what they wanted to.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_06: They didn't get the arrest thing where they got to plaster that everywhere, but they did get the attention.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_06: They they kind of made their point for lack of a better term.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: So it was it seems like the ultimate win-win.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_06: And we end up with a great story.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So it is the ultimate win-win.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: And back to how we started about like really reflecting on Memento Mori and that clock ticking down is you only get so many of those good stories.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I could have looked at we both could have looked at that as like, this isn't really a police matter.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: A bunch of like kids just don't want to leave, and like City Hall doesn't want to let us arrest them.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are we supposed to do?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Neither of us had that attitude.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think going into it without that bad attitude is what made it successful.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and and probably the more paperwork, but the easy way out would have just been to arrest them all and take them and book them and for whatever it would be, a citation of some sort.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_06: But not taking the easy way out ended up being a great outcome for everybody, you know?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I felt I felt bad for the kids too, because like I remember talking to this one girl.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Listen, this is gonna affect your record if you have uh you know an arrest there for any future jobs that you may want in five years.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, We're not gonna be here in five years.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: The planet's gonna end.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_04: That's right, the climate.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I was like, she was literally like really convinced that we would be wiped off the earth in five years.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean that was 2019.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: We're no we're good.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: We're good.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_06: No, it's uh six years.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_06: So we're still we're still here.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_06: We're still drinking.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_06: We almost didn't make it.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_06: Any other parting words, Captain?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Mike, we love you.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna miss you terribly.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm gonna miss you all too very much.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_06: All right.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_06: Great hug.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_06: Let's open the door and find out who's next.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_06: Is the roast of Chief Lamb continues?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_06: Oh no.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_06: Lieutenant Rollins joins us right now, and uh, he's the one with the spicy language.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_06: He had to warn me about this.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I also I told him, I go, just tell the story, man.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_06: If the story is the story, you gotta tell the story.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: I'll take care of the stuff on the back end and make sure we're all legal.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the roast of Chief Lamb continues.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_06: We have Lieutenant Jeffrey Rollins joining us, and uh you guys go way back.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: We do.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that and that is uh part of the story.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: I got hired with APD in 2001.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: But Chief may not remember this, but he and I actually met before either one of us were cops.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was I was telling Will and some of the guys out outside, I've got a photographic memory for conversations that happened 30 years ago.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: But this was probably 9495.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: My brother and I were working up in New England, just finished contract job, and we're going back to Mississippi to visit my folks, and we stopped in Asheville and just hadn't been here and spent a couple of days here.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we roll into Black Dome uh Outfitters on Tunnel Road, just go check in and uh see if they had an idea for like a home base to do some day hikes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and ironically, uh Matt Gentling, who's the bass player for Archers of Loaf and bass player for uh Band of Horses, he's a rock climber and he was working and he sent us up to Shining Rock Wilderness.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Man, you're gonna love it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's really, you know, as close as you can get to an alpine environment here in North Carolina.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um there's a primitive campsite at the base to uh Sam's Nob, Black Balsam.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: So my my brother and I used that as our home base, went camping up there for a couple of days.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And one night we were camping, and some people came in that night, you know, not a noisy crowd or whatever, but some folks came in and we were talking to them the next morning.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: And there was this one charismatic fella in the group who said, Oh, yeah, we're college students.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: We just bounce up here every now and again, go camping for the night.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember this conversation you were having with my brother, because my brother was like, I think the orange juice is bad.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: And this guy's like, No, did you just brush your teeth before you drank the orange juice?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because that makes it um tastes a little funny.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, we we went our separate ways.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: My brother and I went off on our day hike and didn't see him again.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then I get hired with the Asheville Police Department in 2001, and I'm in some in-service training, and I meet this guy named Mike Lamb.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Mike is such a charismatic, you you met him once, you don't forget him.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, wait, did you go to college locally?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Yeah, I went to Western Carolina University.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I said, This may sound crazy, but did you guys ever go camping and shining rock wood?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, like, oh, all the time we'd bounce up there.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, dude, we met, you know, back in like '95, nine.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And of course he didn't remember the conversation, but when you've met Mike, you like you don't you don't forget him.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it was it was kind of funny that I was like, I s I swear that was you.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_06: Um Jake, do you do you remember that at all?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, you you at the time you said you didn't, but no, no.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_06: But you did used to go camping.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: We used to go to Graveyard Field, Shining Rock, uh, Devil's Courthouse.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was back in the gosh, I missed that day.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of rock climbing days, mountain biking days, uh, just any time we could get outdoors.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_06: And before the trails got so full.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now if you go and you go to the the trailhead of black balsam on a on a Saturday, oh good luck.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_06: No, you're you're you there's nowhere to park.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_06: Well l So I proposed to my wife on top of Max Patch.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_06: The year was 2000, and there wasn't hardly anybody there when I did it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_06: It was on a Saturday in the fall.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_06: Can you imagine that?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah right now.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_06: I mean there was like maybe two or three other small groups that were up there.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_06: And now it's like you're elbow to elbow up Max P.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's everyone I'm I'm glad people are enjoying the outdoors space.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_06: But there was a time when it was a little more private.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: So what I want to talk to you about is the mythical character of Mike Lamb.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_06: So this is the second time in the roast that the mythical has appeared.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I will tell you that it it is um no greater compliment uh as a cop for me to be mistaken for Mike Lamb.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it's happened several times in my career.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_06: So you look exactly alike.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, but but a lot of people haven't met Mike.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: So they've just heard about it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Jeff hasn't aged since when he got hired.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: So he says that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um my wife and kids will tell you differently.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um But so so one, and it actually goes back to Shining Rock.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: One time and I got to tell this story.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: One time we were uh Lamb and I we were on Drug Suppression Unit, we were on uh uh Asheville Command Community Enforcement Group.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: One time we were doing surveillance in uh Deaverview apartments.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was in a vacant apartment.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: I run out and get this chasing after this guy.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I never could close the distance on a foot chase.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was like the endurance guy, you know, like I after they've thrown their dope, thrown their gun, you know.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm you know pacing this guy around the corner, and he's coming back up, and here comes Mike around the corner, just pull sprint.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember Mike, he said, I'm not even winded yet.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: And this guy just prones out.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, nope, I'm done.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I but we went, so there were two there were two trials.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: There was the trial on that guy, and then there was a conspiracy trial out of it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: And anyway, the defense attorney, you know, nice guy.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: So some cops are like, I can't believe he was talking to me that way.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, my I was trained early on, like you just gotta have thick skin.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like if it was your dad or your brother on trial, you want him to have the best defense.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I fully believe that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't take it personally.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: So one day I'm up at Shining Rock at the trailhead to uh Sam's knob, and I run into this uh defense attorney.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm with my wife and kids.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, wait, hey, you were a defense attorney on this, whatever.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, My name's Jeffrey Rollins, Nashville Police Department.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Oh yeah, I remember you.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: And we're just kind of small talking there for a few minutes.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, ah, we're gonna get on our way.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: We get on down the trail and we walk, you know, we're about two minutes down, and some guy comes running, he's like, wait, wait.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, wait a second, are you Mike Lamb?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, no, I'm Jeffrey Rollins, but no, yeah, Mike was on the on the case, but no, I'm not Mike Lamb.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: So so all my career, you know, we're on we're on the housing unit together, or you know, when I was I was first promoted to sergeant, I was over the drug suppression unit.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're always out on foot patrol and you know, properties of Asheville Housing Authority.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm constantly getting confused with Mike Lamb.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like no, thank you.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for the compliment, but I'm not Mike.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: But the the funniest one of these is we were um we were on the drug suppression unit.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Danny Holden was uh he was a sergeant of one of the teams.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: And Danny and I were in foot patrol in Piscaview one afternoon, and this guy looks around the corner, he's like, hey, hey.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Oh, I thought you were Mike Lamb.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, Jeffrey Rollins, Sergeant Danny Holden.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, Mike was in here earlier today.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and let and let me let me preface this.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is the story with some colorful language, but but Rick said he would uh he would he would edit it out.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: But he he he thought I was Mike.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, no, he's like, oh, oh, I thought you were Mike Lamb.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Mike was in here earlier today, chased my down, took me to jail, came back out here, caught four more b after that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, thank you for the compliment.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: That was not me.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: And Chief, I just want to tell you, it's just been an honor and it's just a pleasure to work with you all these years.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And uh you got you got big shoes to fill and and you are gonna be missed.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you, Jeff.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for your service to our department.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, likewise, and I'm you know I'm gonna miss miss you and Don and the kids terribly.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: I remember we used to get together and have SWAT Christmas parties.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: To where the SWAT team would come together and we'd bring all of our family there, and the kids would just have a blast hanging out.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'll I'll never forget that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you, and I'll tell you, I remember one of those parties when you were first commander, and I I pulled your wife aside, and I got emotional sharing this with her, but I said, Sasha, Mike has done more for this team in an afternoon than other commanders have done.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd been on the team like eight or nine years at that time.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and I told her, I said, we feel safe knowing Mike is in charge.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like Mike came back from an NTOA conference and said, I love you.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: We're all wearing our heavy plates, every piece of equipment you've got, your side plates, because some people would not wear their ballistic plates on side, and Mike's like, you know, just I care about you that much.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I told your wife, same thing.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like Mike cares about you.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: We we felt completely safe under your leadership and your leadership of the department.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you, Jeff.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_06: All right, man.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_06: Good working with you.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_06: Likewise, thank you, lieutenants.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_06: I think we have one left, I believe.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_06: Send in the next as the roast of Chief Lamb continues.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_06: Are you enjoying yourself so far?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, this is great.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_06: Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp joins us.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_06: I believe Jackie, I believe you are the are are you're the final guest, I think.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm last, but not least.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, awesome.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_06: No, not at all.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_06: So we've been just kind of going down memory lane a little bit with uh Chief Lamb as his time winds down with the Asheville Police Department.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_06: And you don't go back quite as far, but you have some great stories because of your relationship with Mike and and how you guys met and worked together and as part of B L E T and all that, right?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, 20 years.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um That's crazy.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I first first started Chief, I know you remember, but you were one of my two PT instructors uh in our first in-house academy, and from that point on I've just you know looked up to him and he's always been a mentor to me.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_06: I appreciate that.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_06: Now I understand that as you mentioned PT, uh there is a story about the PT, I understand.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_06: Do you do you want to share that one with us today?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_06: About some monogrammed athletic shorts.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, Chief, I don't do you remember what year you were the sergeant over the downtown unit, roughly?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: What was that?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: 2010.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: 2010.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Rick, I don't know if you know this about Chief Lamb, but if most people here probably would not admit, but I would say that most have some level of a professional crush on Chief Lamb.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh a friend of mine Couple friends of mine uh at the time then who were no longer employed here, but they had their Christmas party and and the chief had a uh ERT call out, so he wasn't able to make it as her sergeant.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: But Charlene opened a pair of shorts from her teammate Lisa, and on the the uh rear end of the shorts it said lamb chops.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Charlene decided to try them on and pranced down to the uh room where I think ERT was conducting their briefing and uh show them off a little bit.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's hilarious.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_06: So you so you saw them?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't believe it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: I was speechless.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was amazing.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_06: Did you request for a pair of your own?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_06: You know, just as a you know?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_06: You you could have you could have rocked them.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't think I've ever worn any shorts that had wording on the butt, really.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_06: So I imagine lamb on one side and chops on the other on the other.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_06: And so those were were they ever worn again, or was it just for one night, or is this be who knows?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think Charlene took pride in working out in those.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_06: So Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp joins us as part of the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_06: And with Chief Lamb departing, what have you learned?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_06: You mentioned obviously you looked up to him, and is there anything in particular, things that you think of as listen, that that one thing, that one day that he said, or that one thing he that one he did, I'm gonna take that with me as I further with my career.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_06: Anything jump to mind?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just I mean, really just who he is, uh the person he is, not just in the uniform, but just the person he is, always taking the time to lend an ear and makes makes a commitment to do that, just to listen to what you have to say.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then just, you know, just always trying to find a way to bring light into the room.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometime I walk in the chief's pod and I have to step across him because he's laying in the floor with a baby.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or I walk in with a guest and he's standing on the chair swinging Cora around with a dog toy in her mouth.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just everything he brings, but most importantly for me, I mean he's a great leader, great police officer, but for me it's just the person that he is.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Even my children, you know, really aspire to be somewhat like Chief Lamb.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_06: You've seen different Chiefs, uh, you know, obviously, in your career, and and so have you.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_06: Chief Lamb.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_06: So what, if anything, did you learn from previous Chiefs?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_06: Anything you incorporated into your tenure here, or even for that matter, things you picked up from your officers or your deputy chiefs.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_06: You were kind of thrust into the position a little unexpectedly.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, yeah.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_04: There's we've had so many examples between Will Anorino, Bill Hogan, William Anderson, Tammy Hooper, Dave Zack.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then we've had interims and and short times.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: Even Chris Bailey, when Chris was here for the short amount of time he was here, he uh he left an impact on us, um, especially with uh allowing tattoos and then take home cars, and so the lot of the stuff that the officers have was because of him.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I think everybody has their different nuances.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um one thing I wish that I had was Jackie's work ethic.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, but she goes nonstop.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: I tend to try to be the fun chief a little too much.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_04: And and I'll I'll look into to Jackie's office and she's just like pounding away working on a plan or the pay plan or starting up the RTIC.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: So if I could have done something differently, especially over the last two years, it was to have a little bit of a stronger work ethic to match Jackie's.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I really don't think anybody can match Jackie's work volume and the dedication that she has to the agency.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well he says that, but it was just the other day that I said it was like 6 30 and I was leaving and he's still here, and I said, don't work too late.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I appreciate that, but don't sell yourself short there.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're here early and you leave late just like me.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_06: So I would think everyone kind of almost knows at least a little bit internally what their their strengths are.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_06: Uh not everyone knows what their weaknesses are, but I think people know what their strengths are.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_06: Is that one of your strengths, Deputy Chief Steph?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_06: You know, just your work ethic, just getting you know nose to the grindstone type thing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think so.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm fortunate that I think I have the ability to multitask.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a a a quality that I'm able to have because I have so many different projects going on.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think uh, you know, I do value my my work ethic and and just try to leave every position in a in a positive way.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well and I think she has the gift of vision also, because I remember when I I first moved into my office.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I d I want to preface it by saying Jackie has been nothing but extremely supportive of me in this position.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: And the only way that I've even been remotely successful is because of the hard work that she's put into to supporting me as chief.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember one but before we moved in the office, there was like this 1980s blinds everywhere, and the office just looked so antiquated.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, Okay, yeah, we're gonna take that down, that down, and that down, referring to the blinds and then taking this board off.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it looked I would have just left everything the same and it would have been just not a fun environment to be in.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it looks it looks great now.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: But everybody walks in, it's like, wow, look at the architecture on that window.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so Jackie really has a gift of yes, hard work, multitasking, but also looking at something or looking at a plan and being able to see down the road like the best that it can be.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if he would have maintained his 1980s mustache, I might have let him keep the the the window balances, I think they're called.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: But no, it's just been so much fun working with Chief Lamb.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember one time I was a a young rookie officer and they were doing some kind of operation, I don't remember what it was, but me and I don't even remember who I was with were supposed to go to the top of an old apartment complex mountainside, and they were doing some either ERT or maybe just some some DSU type work.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: I remembered that he got in a foot chase and he ran and he kind of tackled, if you will, this guy up against the wall.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: And when he turned around, uh we turned the offender around, I remember probably turning as white as a ghost because I thought, oh no, Chief Lamb just really messed this guy up.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh his face was split.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just looked really bad.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I tried to do kind of the Bart Simpson out and just kind of like, you know, 10-8 ocean, so to speak.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but ended up being they I think they all knew who he was.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know who he was at the time?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, not until we looked him up.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: It was like, oh, okay, yeah, his his face was already that way.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he actually had a medical condition.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I didn't know if the chief knew that at the time, but I know I did not know that at the time.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but that was that was funny.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's funny, she said she Bart Simpson out on that day.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I tell you, we were both together July 4th of 2021.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: Huge fight breaks out at the uh the old monument.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: I end up having to grab one guy, tase another guy, and I'm like, d I call out on the radio, next thing I know, here comes Jackie, like running full speed, and just grabs one of them and helps pull them away because there was a crowd coming in on us at that point.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: So Jackie's always been great, supportive within the office and then out in the field, not hesitating to come like in a time of help whenever I was making an arrest with multiple people trying to interfere with the arrest.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I just I really appreciate all the ways that you've always supported me.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, and thank you for not getting mad at me when I have had to, in his chief role, go to an active shooter and pull him back and say, Chief, remember you're the chief.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let the officers go in here, but you're the chief.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh but yeah, he's always he's never gotten mad.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: He always just said, Okay, okay, we got it.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_06: That was probably difficult for you, at least at first, when you were you're now the chief.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_06: You're used to being like in the thick of it, right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_06: All of a sudden to realize, oh, I can't do that.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because I had my rifle in my hand.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: We're getting ready to go into DSS, and she was like, Chief, just just hold on.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_04: Very, very tactfully.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you probably need to head over here to the command post.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then I was like, okay, yeah.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: We got guys for that.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Give me the rifle.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you did.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: You took my rifle, yeah.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_06: Well, Chief, this is uh as we wind down, now I know we're gonna have your party here just about the same time that this is released.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_06: And your final days, you've kind of leaked out on the radio what you're going to be doing.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_06: Would you like to share that with uh with our podcast listeners right now?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, definitely.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: Thankfully, like for December, I'll be able to take it easy, spend time just with family down in the Charleston area.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then in January, January 2nd, I'll start a job on Kiowa Island as the community association's director of security.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm looking forward to that next chapter.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_06: Will that be like uh they'll give you the gun with the one bullet like Barney Fife?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_06: It's like you get to use your bullet.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_06: Because I know that violence at Kiawa is not quite as intense.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_06: The level of security and not quite Asheville.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and it's funny because the uh when during my interviews, they s uh they asked me, they said, you know, this is really low-key down here.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's very safe.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we don't have any real crime.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna be okay with this job?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like, there's not a lot of adrenaline involved.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Yes, let me tell you about my last seven years.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, oh, okay, once I explain shooting, Helene, COVID riots, all that.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, Yeah, okay, you it's time for you to take a break.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_04: So golf carts and electric bikes will be your Yes.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, golf carts, electric bikes.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: Occasional alligator.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I may have to learn to wrestle an alligator.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: I can get my adrenaline from from getting them out of the roadway.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, they're there.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_06: And your golf game may improve.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_06: Several nice courses too.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_06: Deputy Chief Step, thank you for joining us for the roast of Chief Lamb.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_06: Chief Lamb, thank you for your twenty-eight years of service.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much, Rick.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a joy I would uh never ever do anything else.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: This is just such a wonderful job.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: With um, I think the hardest thing is going to be is leave it leaving the people because it's really important for the for our community to remember that these officers have been through COVID riots, Helene.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_04: And when a lot of other agencies lost people, we gained people post-Helene.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Between our academy class sizes to lateral transfers, so people really want to come here and work because we have such a talented and dedicated group of officers and employees.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_06: Thanks for listening to the APD Pod Squad Roast of Chief Lamb.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_06: And thank you to my roasters, Deputy Chief Jackie Stepp, Deputy Chief Sean Artima, Captain Jonathan Brown, Captain Joe Silberman, and Lieutenant Jeffrey Rollins.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_06: And thank you for listening.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_06: If there's a topic you'd like us to tackle or a guest suggestion, just call 828-250-8800 and leave a voicemail.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_06: Or you can email APD Podcastfeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_06: Listen and subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts and don't miss a single episode.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_06: Tell a friend or even just a Facebook friend.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_06: Share it on your socials and help spread the word about the APD Pod Squad.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_06: I'm Rick Royce.