Latest / "the good work talk show" with mallory contois / the good work talk show | ep. 04 - toni cowan-brown

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the good work talk show | ep. 04 - toni cowan-brown · "the good work talk show" with mallory contois

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: There I am on the grid in Monaco in Miami, hundreds of celebrities, messy behind me.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm down at the floor, like zooming in.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is happening to you?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I monetize my brain, not my lifestyle.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Full stop.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I will always ask questions.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember someone in my internship taking this out and go, if you keep asking that many questions, we're gonna think we hired the wrong person.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, but no one can answer my questions.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: My speciality in circa school was typerope walking and trapeze.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa, can you still do those things?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is Tony Cowan Brown.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: She built an incredible corporate career in both politics and tech, left that career in 2021, took a bet on herself, and started creating content about Formula One.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Since then, she's built an incredible platform with over 100,000 followers.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's also the founder of Sunday Fangirls, which is focused on both the economic and cultural impact of female fandom.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: She's also been featured in Vogue, CNBC, and the Financial Times.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Really incredible, and I'm so excited to talk to her today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I planted ask her a lot about that career arc of hers and how she made those choices to leave corporate and start her own thing.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Very curious how she decides what to say yes and what to say no to as she builds out this portfolio of projects and how she's thinking about the future of work for herself as well as the rest of us.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Mallory Contois, and this is Good Work.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I do think we're mic'd now, so we can actually talk.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now I shouldn't say things like I did right before we started.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Tony Cowan Brown.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Good Work.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited you're here.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm delighted.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, we're just gonna get right into it.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all right.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Your job is to be an F1 and tech commentator for platforms like ESPN, and you found it an incredible business.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Would younger you be surprised?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, what a good question.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes and no.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think younger me wouldn't be surprised that I've gone and built something for myself that I didn't want to report to anyone else, that I wanted to do things my own way, that I didn't like the way things were done.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I think younger me would be surprised that it ended up in the sports space.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I did no sports.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's a lie.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: I did that's a lie.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: No lying on the good.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: No lying on the good.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did very unique, weird sports.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did okay, I went to circus school for 12 years.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Soccer school?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Circus school.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Circus school.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even more weird than soccer.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, there's no way you call it soccer.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's football.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a conversation for another day.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, circus school.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: For 12 years, you said.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: For 12 years.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So my speciality in circus school was typerope walking and trapeze.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, can you still do those things?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would probably hit every bone in my body by the time.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the amount of upper body strength that it requires is insane.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: However, I've had it in the back of my head that I want to go back and do more trapeze because it's a great workout.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: But as my husband would remind me, you have to ease into that, honey, because you're gonna get up there with all the confidence of 16-year-old you.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Did I did a lot of scuba diving.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got all the paddy and seamass, um, I became a rescue diver, all things that no one needs when that's not the path that they're going down.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had all of these types of unique sports that were all and rock climbing, they're all very individual sports in a very weird way.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: So which is why I go back to it wouldn't surprise me that I went off and my my idea right now is yeah, I want to build a multi-million dollar company that has just one employee and that is me.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um playing an individual sport now.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So exactly that.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that bit doesn't surprise me.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: The bit that does surprise me is I've never been a fanatic of anything.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I've and I think this is the curiosity that's come out of all of this is fan bases and why we become fans of things, and that that is a multi-billion dollar industry.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the difference between how we treat male fans and female fans, um, watching that culture because we never had a football team at home.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: We've never rooted for anything except for Formula One that my dad did follow, and I sort of tangentially followed and got in and out of that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: I have so many questions about fandom, but I'm gonna try to stick to the stick to the plan here.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so you mentioned your dad.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about how you were raised.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like what were you like as a kid besides these uh you know, individual sports and any early signs?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: I hear, I hear a little bit of like I was probably you were probably a little entrepreneurial as a kid.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're not surprised that you ended up that way, but tell me a little bit about a little Tony.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting on the entrepreneurial one, definitely entrepreneurial, but never entrepreneurial.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like you hear Gary Vaynerchuk who talks about being an entrepreneur for making money, and it's so weird because I didn't live a frugal life, but I also we weren't like swimming in money.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But that money was never a topic of conversation, other than it's good to have it and it's important to be safe with it, and you know, but I never was entrepreneurial when I hear kids of just like I had a lemonade stand and it was to make money and to do all of this.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Entrepreneur was more for me of just like, I want to build really cool shit.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I want to like dig in and learn and do something new and different.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: But to go back to your question of young me, so I have such a weird let me start by saying I love my life, I loved my childhood, even though it was a very, very, very strange childhood.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't change it for anything in the world.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: So my parents divorced when I was very young, four around four-ish.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my mum then got diagnosed with cancer when I was I think seven or eight, um, maybe even a little later.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad, who is my adoptive father, is the man that has always been a strong component in my life.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have pictures of him in France teaching me how to ride a bike when I was three or four, and he was my one of my mum's best friends.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as she was diagnosed with cancer, and we kind of knew that she probably had maybe a year or two left, um, they made a pact that A, she would be, and I only discovered this like a couple of years later when I think my dad had to stare me truly in my soul and was like, You're an idiot.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think I said something along the lines of, I'm still to this day so grateful that I get to have you as a parent because my mum and I were so similar, and we like were at each other's necks all the time.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, do you think maybe she did that?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So she was the bad parent.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when she left, you would be stuck with the parent you loved.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, Oh, women are phenomenal and amazing, and I am so much foresight.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am such an asshole for thinking.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can swear.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was such an asshole for thinking even that thought when he was like, No, no, all of like your mother was phenomenal, and so when you were at that age, she was being the really hard parent, so that when she left, you would be left with me and you would be thrilled by that idea.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was part of my upbringing, was truly him stepping in and going, okay, so your mum and I are gonna become really close, so that when it comes time, I want to ask to be able to adopt you.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they got married.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the adoption process took a solid 10 years.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, quite the journey.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I got I ended up being adopted at the age of 21, which is so wackadoo, which is also why I kept my name and take my dad's name.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I've lived 21 years with this name, this is who I am now.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think all of these things, without truly knowing, truly shaped who I was.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the hardest battles I've had in life were trying to get adopted and everything that comes with that, choosing your family, saying no to your biological father, because I was just like, just we aren't meant to be to like I know this.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And being an eight-year-old, nine-year-old kid standing in front of a judge and making those cases is kind of wild.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it that that also shapes who I am today.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm just like, I'm living, I think, my childhood life.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I loved my childhood.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I cannot for the life of me complain about it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, God, I had a man who chose to be my dad, like how how lucky I am to have that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think all of these things of just like I will be ruthless with whom I hang out with, with whom, who is my entourage.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first sign, and I'm like, I have no patience for this.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not that I don't want to be a good friend and hard times are hard, but truly I will do that with the right people.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think surrounding yourself with that, but also just like nothing in life feels hard, I think, to me, because some of the hardest times of my life were going through the ages of eight to about 20.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just feel like I was set up in a very weird way of just like everything else is kind of easy and fun.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like all of those experiences gave you early kind of comfort with this idea of the unknown or challenges or um ambiguity?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, it's an interesting, it's really interesting that you asked that because yes, I I've never thought about it in that way.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I thought about it in the way that I have no issues with putting in the hard work.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it took me 10 years to get adopted.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You want do you want to talk about hard work and sticking to a project and and going all in?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I never fought it through that lens, and I would say, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's why I did really well when I worked on presidential campaigns.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, it's chaos, it's normal, this is drama.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Great, let's go.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very like in crazy situations, I am very calm.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am incredibly patient, except with technology, not patient with tech.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I think those all of those moments in life just I have, I think it took my husband a while to realize we're going, are you okay?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because my default is life is incredibly hard, life is incredibly painful, and you are would be so lucky if you have a good, calm, easy day.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why I'm trying to actually enjoy life now because I don't think I ever really got to enjoy it in the way of just like have fun.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: For me, fun was always because again, the adoption 10 years, you have to prove that he was a great father.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So everything is true.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is serious, every doctor's note has to be calculated and put in a file and stored.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do my grades.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just grades are important for you and you want to be proud.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I have to show that I'm a good parent and that I'm putting you for the right education system, and out of that comes good.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was calculated, which is why I know I have a hard time when people are just like, Well, you said this thing as like, oh, oh, it's like, oh, you're mapping what I'm saying, and I know I have just like a knee-jerk reaction to that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because all of that was calculated as a child.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I think we have a lot of similarities having gone through cancer, it's a similar thing where you go through a challenge and all of this stuff and everything is hard and serious that my default is similar to yours, and I'm just now learning, I think, how to have fun.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Have fun and like relax.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay, yeah, actually.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not fun.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's fun, it's and it's and having fun is actually fun, but it's also good for your health and it's good for your mental state, and it's good for the people around you.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it is crazy that even I think going all the way back to your first question, how I landed here, was truly, I don't do hobbies.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot, for the life of me, do hobbies.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hobbies turn in, like I'm surprised I didn't end up in a circus.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's just because I was thinking.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I still could.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's still time, but I truly think it's just I wasn't that good.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but even ballet, I like went to the Royal Academy in London and I took part in those concours, and they were like, absolutely no, you're nowhere near good enough compared to these.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I couldn't just have a I cannot still to this day just have a hobby, and that's something that I've done.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a competitive streak?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not compet it's not competition because I'm actually not that competitive.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm competitive with myself, but I'm someone, yeah, but I Yeah, I don't know.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: You want to be excellent.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I think that's a level of competition.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think one can ever be excellent if unless I I think it's easier for athletes to be excellent because this the scoring.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's very black and white.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're the first, you were the fastest, you were the highest, you were the longest jump.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think in business I've given up of trying to be excellent, but it's am I better today than I was the day before?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if that is the case, then I'm like, great.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um all right, let's talk about your career journey a little bit.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: You went from the European Commission to a VP role in tech, to making, not to reduce it to this, but F1 explainers on TikTok.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's quite an arc.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm curious if there was a moment where you decided that corporate, you know, you decided to go out on your own or corporate wasn't for you, or whatever it was.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, take me through that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a single moment?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Was it kind of an overtime realization?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Was it just a set of circumstances?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting because you you mentioned the word arc, and for a lot of people in my corporate, they're just like wiggle.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it was more like you were here, like you were one of the few people in the company that got a double promotion in the same stint because you were so good.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, we can't reduce you to one promotion, we're upping you twice.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, and that was a problem because they're like, now we've set the standard of we can promote people two jobs up in like on the corporate ladder.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people in that world will look at me and going, and so you're doing what now on TikTok?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, see it as you giving up.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or just a world they don't understand.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: I don't know if there's a single moment, but I do remember so incredibly clearly during the pandemic.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was a tech exec, I was a tech exec who'd done the European expansion for an American tech company and everything that came with it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the sales, the growth, the marketing, um the Fort Leadership piece, the hiring, all of that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely loved it, enjoyed it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband was working for a UK company and was asked to do the same thing in America.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so we moved to San Francisco.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you have to do it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had as much fun in the past five years.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was the hard one of the hardest things I think I've done in terms of managing all of that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he took that job and I stayed with the company.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: But when you've done once you've done that in the company, doing anything else in the company where you're just like, what do you mean I'm not my own boss anymore and I have to report to someone?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'm doing this in America and I don't understand American culture.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a tech company in politics, and I was like, and I care less about American politics than I do about European politics.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a moment of I love that they kept me on, I love that they figured it out.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm incredibly grateful for that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, I think I need to I need a break instead.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who's ever worked in politics, I'd just come out of doing six years of seven French presidential candidates races, both sides of the Brexit campaign, elections in Belgium, UK, France.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, now's a good time to actually take a break.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I really remember taking a break and going, wow, okay, who the hell am I?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: How long was this break?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: This was well, the break never ends because we're still on it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're still on it in the sense that I never went back to corporate.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I I truly was just like, I need a few months, and then the pandemic hit, and I was like, this is the perfect time to and I and I'll come back to the content creation bit in a second.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: But the question that I had that I think is probably the most decisive moment was why would anyone be excited and lucky to be stuck at a dinner next to me?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you take away my job title and you take away the company I work for, and you take away take away all the bell whistles of being a VP and leader, all of that, and it's sure it just says Tony Cambrown.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why would anyone be excited and lucky to be stuck next to me for two hours?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it really got me thinking about my strengths, my weaknesses, what I can add to this place.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's things I never thought about because I was always on the career path and the career wheel and that treadmill and that ladder, which I was adamant that I would be the CEO of one of these big corporate companies.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, like that was the competitive side with myself of if I'm here, I want to be at the top.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the content creation bit started, and I realized wait, hold on a minute.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing content, and this was at the time, by the way, of pandemic, rise of TikTok, and rise of the creative economy, where people were actually talking about the creative economy and there's it and actually a space that's financially valuable and it's an economic boost, and we need to look into this.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we had the wave of journalists leaving and coming in to their home and leaving institutions to start up their own companies.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you had some examples.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had examples to look at.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was seeing journalists do that, and then I had a moment of I've always created content since I was in college.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Every presentation was always a content proposal.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I the things I preferred the most at uni at school was putting together a white paper, writing my thesis, and all of that is creating content.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Your viewpoint on anything and your opinion and your POV.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was the tech exec doing that European expansion, I remember a conversation with our then global head of sales who's like, I need you to do the blueprint and teach my people how you're closing multi-million dollar deals when you've never been a sales lead before.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are you closing these contracts?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized it was all content.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the BBC talking about elections, I was writing things that I was thought was interesting on LinkedIn or newsletters or for people.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was in politico podcasts talking about learning from American elections and political systems, applying that to Europe, the rise of tech, lowering the barrier to entry, democratizing.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is I don't care about selling software.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I care about for leadership and getting people to do really cool stuff.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: All of that was content.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I actually can't teach that because all the deals I've closed is me standing up at a conference, me going to an A16Z conference, and I still remember doing my first A16Z conference in London, just after, I think just before after Benedict Evans, who is a phenomenal tech analyst.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I gave my presentation, and my presentation had nothing to do with tech, had nothing to do with software.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was how the world, how we are gonna change, and this was 2016, how we are gonna change the way we elect our future presidential candidates and prime ministers.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember leaving the stage and I had a massive round of applause.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um my husband, I think, was in the stage.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, wow, the women at the table were just like in like they were just like excited by what you had just given.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember calling the CEO who was supposed to give the presentation but was very sick and couldn't.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I think I nailed that, I think it's really good.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um Ben Horitz hated it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, uh-huh.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, like, hated it, like no, he like he didn't like anything about it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, that's exciting.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm just gonna take a seat.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you can give me two minutes of like joy and fun.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You had to just but it was puffy, he was used to like, and so that was the realization of I do phenomenal storytelling, it's the one thing I'm very, very good at.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and truly tripped and fell into the world of Formula One, long-winded answer to your question.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the time we had, again, pandemic, second season of Drive to Survive, people were bored, we just wanted entertainment, we just wanted sports.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a lot of friends who had started Drive to Survive, and they knew that I this was a sport that I knew pretty well because my dad had taken to me to many, many Formula One races, and we lived an hour away from Spa Francorchamp, which is one of the most iconic racetracks.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was getting lots of questions, and I was just writing people back on text message or voice notes, and one person who is actually instrumental to where I am today said, Hey, I'm gonna take as soon as the pandemic's over, I'm taking my kids to a race, I'm really excited.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Give me bullet point, like 10 things we need to know about Formula One.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I sat down and I wrote 74 pages, and he was like, Yeah, yeah, you're cute.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I do not have time for what it what is this?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've given me homework.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I turned that into four different parts of a newsletter that got picked up by Formula One itself.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you started with a newsletter.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I started with a newsletter.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a lie or is that true?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I started with a newsletter, and simultaneously at the same time, I was playing around with TikTok because I was fascinated by the amount of time.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: This was gonna be my question of like, I think a lot of people that are watching are scared to start posting around TikTok.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or like that that feels like a big jump, even though it's not in practice it isn't, but mentally it can be.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're saying you were just kind of playing.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting that you do that differentiation.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think mentally it was a huge jump for me.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never been in front, I have never picked up my phone, even done videos of myself or self-pieces.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was just not a good one.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: You've done podcasts, you've done stages.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: But there's something about looking at the phone.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's something about being alone with your own thoughts and feeling really stupid that you're talking to a camera lens or by yourself.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it like mentally that was a shift, but also physically, like, I didn't know what I was doing.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what good looked like, I didn't know what good sounded like.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a time at TikTok just after Vine.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was still 10 seconds, TikTok trends, TikTok dances, and here I was sitting down in my garden, putting my phone on a tripod or holding it and giving a two-minute spiel about something that I thought was interesting in the world of Formula One.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, that those TikTok videos came after because I had the 74 pages, and I was like, how do I turn it?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the most succinct person.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and again, this wasn't a hobby.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm gonna teach myself how to be succinct.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I'm gonna do this is I'm gonna break up.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had a plan.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had a plan.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna turn this 74-page guide into as many short form videos as I can, and I just play.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: My first videos were p videos of my dogs, which generally do really well.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: They did absolutely pouring.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's where I should start.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, honestly, it's you're just like, do this.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dogs are always a plus, they're always a win.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did maybe four videos, five videos, and not on purpose, but I think I rage baited the internet, not on purpose, with two videos that I'd posted the same day or back to back, and then went to bed and woke up, and I was like, oh my god, what has just happened?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this wasn't at a scale that I think people would say viral, but I had gone from truly 12 followers on TikTok to maybe about five, six thousand, and I was like, what has just happened?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's a significant increase.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is at the time.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's a dinner table to a very large room.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: To a very large room, with I think both videos doing over six figures to 100,000.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I've literally gone from videos being 10 likes, you know.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the two non-purposeful rage baiting videos, one was me talking about all the different teams, one of the teams at the time being Honour.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Honou is a very French name.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: My first language, mother tongue, is French.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can only say French words in with the French way, and the internet just went wild.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like, this is a pompous.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Woman condescending, why don't you say Mercedes with a German accent?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, because I'm not German and Scuderia Ferrari with an Italian.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, again, because I'm not Italian.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so funny.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, it was my first foray into oh wow, the internet is actually a wild place.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So many expectations.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Expectations and assumptions that people make because I look and sound.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I look and sound like.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I sound incredibly British.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so hard for people to wrap their head around that.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was born in France and my whole education was French.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second video was me saying that Red Bull as an organization was the only team on the grid that had two teams.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: At the time it was Alpha Towery and Red Bull, and people like that's absolutely not true.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I had that realization of, oh, I actually know a lot about this sport, way more than most people, but I don't think I'd actually realize this.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I am actually in a very good position to be able to educate people on this sport because half the comments were like, that's absolutely not true.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, it really is true.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and so from that moment, was there any part of you that was like, oh, I could have a career doing this?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, we were still playing.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: We were still playing, I was still, I had my tech money on the side, which is also why I never tell content creators, here's the blueprint, because this I think only worked for me because I had done two or three careers before this.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had money on the side, this was my playtime.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was thoroughly enjoying this.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't even remotely looking, which is why I think I'm a terrible entrepreneur.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't even remotely looking at how I could monetize this.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: None of that was top of mind.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's how a lot of the best entrepreneurs start.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I like hearing that.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll have one with that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna remember this when people are just like, you should monetize more.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um it'll come when it comes.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And with the right things, which actually has helped me because I was always, now I look back at it in a very privileged position to know what deals I take and what deals I am happy to say no to.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually did one the other day where I was like, no, I'm good.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they came back and we were like, we're just kidding, we have 10x the money that we said you had.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Ah, that's interesting.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh okay, look at that.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes it and they were like, I it's good to play hard to get.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, I wasn't playing hard to get.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was truly, I cannot do this for this price tag.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that was funny.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, so to answer your question, no, I would this was still play.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, still play, but I had a very clear understanding of there is a massive gap here to be filled.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it seems like you had a goal, even though it was play.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Your goal was to learn, your goal was to improve, your goal was to sort of expand this skill set.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: My goal was to teach myself this new skill set, be comfortable in front of the camera, and absolutely I was seeing this with drive to survive, people flocking to the sport but not understanding how to actually understand the sport.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this I love.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want this sport, because I fell in and out of love with this sport, and I was like, this sport will be a much better place if we have more representation, more diversity, more women, younger people, people of colour.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want this to be part of the cultural zeitgeist.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had all of these things.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, God, this sport would be so cool if we had all of this in the mix.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I can play around.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: My role is I can lower the barrier to energy because it is not as hard as the journalists make it out to be.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is a technical sport, this is a complex sport, it has layers, but it's actually not that fundamentally difficult to understand.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually a really cool sport once you start peeling back the layers.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of the fact that there is kind of this old guard, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: That you walked into in Formula One.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: As you were kind of in those rooms with those folks, how much did you find yourself, and I imagine this has changed over time, how much did you find yourself trying to fit in in those rooms versus maybe seeing your differentiator as being different or standing out?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I so going, which is why I love the question about your childhood.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have never wanted to stand out, but I do stand out.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have never wanted to be main character energy.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've never, there are no videos of me singing Gemini.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I there's no videos of me as a young kid wanting to perform.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: My dad would always take me to Club Meds because Club Med is very well for kids, it's like really well organized and programming.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would always want to skip the last day where it's like recital and you get on stage.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, absolutely not this way, buy out.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want like again.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I weirdly that performer, which is strange because I like getting on stage and you talking about the things that I'm passionate about, but it's about the topic, it's not about me.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've never wanted to stand out in any room that I go in.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: I used to be someone who worked in politics and international relations, and I love fashion.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I would always rock in looking the way I looked with outfits and hair done and makeup, and in a room of like blue and black suits or grey and black suits.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, oh well, here I also have bright orange hair, so that that kind of helps you stand out.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always been the odd one out because I fundamentally I've always known this to be true.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It has always confused me that people work in silos, and I've always seen the world of I don't think you can understand the fashion world if you don't understand the economy and you don't understand politics.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe you can actually understand your country and the politics and international relations if you don't understand the tech landscape of where we're going today and culture to be real.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the same in sports, where I always laugh when people are like, Can we keep politics out of sports?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we created sports for political avenue centuries ago.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was why the Olympics were created to appease the population.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is inherently linked.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think those are all the things that I've always looked at, everything as this like giant um big ecosystem.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: What was the actual question?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: The question.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: All of that was very interesting.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was curious how much you were spending time trying to fit in versus standing out.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, fit in versus standing out.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And but very quickly I realized: look, I cannot compete with a motorsport journalist who has spent three decades track side understanding the difference between a V10, a V8, a V6.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am not gonna compete with someone who has gone from being a marshal to working for Formula One, to working with the FIA to now working on a team.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: However, what I do bring to the table is I have an understanding of the political landscape, I have an understanding of the business landscape, and I'm passionate about tech, and this sport is more technological than it ever has been.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I bring to the table.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I do not comment on the on-track battle, which I love because it it stays the thing that I enjoy watching and I don't make it my job.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love to understand how we got here as a sport, why it's the first time in seven decades that all um all teams on the grid are actually making a profit and lucrative and it's a good business for them to be in.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love the genesis of why we even got Formula One in 1950 for the first place, and it's tied to post-World War II and all of these.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love that, and that's what I bring to the table.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And just through that lens, I stand out like a sort of fan because people are like, why are you covering this?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: This makes no sense.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will be, I was just in Miami and came back from Miami, and I was on, and I did the same in Monaco last year.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the grid and I was looking for something tech related.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I knew exactly what I was looking for, and I was looking for um the responders on the side of the track, and I was also looking at the light system and the countdown.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so there I am on the grid in Monaco and Miami, probably two of the craziest grids where we have hundreds of celebrities.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: There was Messi behind me, there was um Alex Earl in front of me, and I'm at down at the floor, like zooming in, and I have friends who've taken pictures of me going, Are you insane?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are you blind?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is happening to you?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Look around.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, but that's not what I'm actually interested in.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have a very clear story.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so people are like, Oh, do you have a good picture of you on the grid?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, No, A, I look like hell.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm wearing a hoodie in I don't know, 35 degrees Celsius.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm probably sat on the ground somewhere zooming into something that makes absolutely no sense.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And even the guys on the team are like, what are you looking at?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had security guards in Miami who are just like, she's looks really suspicious.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do we take her up?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I promise you, I'm just zooming on the camera.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that's my niche.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um And have you always been comfortable leaning into that?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think so many people, when they come into a room that feels unfamiliar, the instinct is to fit in.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: The instinct is to dress the part or speak like everyone else.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you feel like that came naturally to you to not do that?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or or was that your instinct that you had to fight?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's harder to fit in than it is to just be yourself.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think the amount of work, and I'm not lazy by any means, but I'm smart with how I spend my time, and I've always have been as a ROI on trying to fit in.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it that is the perfect sentence.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: There is the ROI on trying to fit in is terrible, abysmal, waste of money, waste of time, you're buying clothes.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember getting into a fight with one of my first bosses when I worked at an agency in London, who his whole thing was everyone needs to wear a suit.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: No jeans, I you have to wear it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, do you understand that the cost of a good, well-fitted suit, especially for women, especially for women, is exponentially higher than a good pair of well-fitted jeans.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I also understand his position.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where do I stop?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you start, I was like, just be clear on what kind of jeans you accept, no holes, no baggy jeans.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, I don't get it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: If I rocked up on a Friday, which I did multiple times, wearing a good pair of jeans and a nice clear shirt, I look exponentially.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you forcing people to do a thing that only you can afford and I'm on a salary that's 23,000 a year?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna spend 500 bucks on a well-fitted suit that probably still isn't that well-fitted.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Times have changed and fashion is more accessible now than it was, I think, 20 years ago.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think, yeah, you're right, better or I'm trying to fit in.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've fundamentally ever sat down with myself and had that conversation, but I've always had that balance of I don't want to stand out, I just want to focus on me, I don't like eyeballs on me, I just want to have a good time, and also I know what I look like, I know what I sound like, and I know I always end up in rooms that I shouldn't be in by sheer curiosity.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in retrospect, do you think that was your unfair advantage in some ways in this case?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe here's the thing: my absolute unfair advantage, which is also why I just like I have this weird thing of life is really hard, you're gonna be miserable most of your life, that's okay, but the the moments that are brilliant are worth just like holding on to.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Which is I was brought up by a middle-aged, he weren't like that, he wasn't middle-aged at the time, but let's say by a single white man who gave me the privilege of being a white man in this day and age.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he gave me the confidence of a white man as already as an 11-year-old child.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I will never forget going into my first internship with all the confidence that he had given me and was just me, and I sat at the table and I was told, no, um, you can take the notepad and sit against the wall.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, why?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I'm sorry, are you questioning?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't understand.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a C, is this am I in someone's C?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, and I they just gave up.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like, fine, we're gonna start the meeting, but really angry that I was sat there and I was so confused.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why it hadn't even occurred to you.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: It hadn't occurred to me that I'm you asked me to be in the meeting, you asked me to take notes.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Surely the best notes you're gonna get from me is if I'm sat at the table and I can read people's emotions and expressions.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I was confused by that.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there was so many in my internship, there's so many things that confuse me.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going back to my dad and going, I think I'm raffling feathers.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Oh my god, what are you doing?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, not on purpose.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I generally think I my sheer presence and audacity to speak up and ask questions.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what, and I think this is tied to who I am and why I do the things that I do and the content that I do, is I love asking questions and I am really, really, it's the one thing in life that irks me and pisses me off that we associate questions with stupidity.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: That we think, God, she's asking.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember someone in my internship taking me aside and go, if you keep asking that many questions, we're gonna think we hired the wrong person.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yeah, but no one can answer my questions.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think I'm in the wrong.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think the fact that you're doing something and you don't have answers to questions I have that are pretty basic.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're doing something wrong here.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even at uni, I remember asking questions and the professor being like, now's not the time.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, if now's not the time, then when like and so there is this thing in life where you're told when you leave uni you should have this package and know all of these things, and you're being hired because of this knowledge.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: No one's getting hired for a job for the knowledge that they kept from university.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're being hired because of who you are as a human being and what you bring to the table.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I think that has always stuck with me, and I will always ask questions.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always curious, and I think that's the only reason I'm good at the job that I do is that I'm an observer of life and I ask questions not because I'm trying to catch someone in a lie, I'm just genuinely curious.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's happened to me in the garage while I've asked something, and they're like, I really wish you hadn't asked that.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh no, what have I done?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, because it's something A we were trying to ignore.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's something we hadn't thought about, and now we know, and now we know it's something we need to look into.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's such a gift.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's hard on live television when you know you put somebody on the spot.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: But generally, I think asking those questions, it's one of the reasons that I love working with especially newer employees or new people to a company or something.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I tell them ask as many questions as come to your because like half of them I probably haven't thought about, and what a gift that I'm now going to have answers to those questions because you're giving me the opportunity to and we get to learn from people who ask questions, and and I'm seeing this already now, six years in.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably not asking as good as questions that I asked of myself when I asked of the sport four years ago, three years ago.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're less of a beginner.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm looking at the sport more, I'm I'm getting closer and closer to the sport.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas before, I mean, one of my favorite questions from someone who was following me on TikTok was just like, okay, so I understand that everything, you know, is about weight, um, and you know, everything, the suits are really well fitted.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where do they put the car keys when they get in the car?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What a question.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: What a question, because the the the the mean answer would be, are you an idiot?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Of course there's no car key, but actually, why is there no car key in a Formula One car?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's no car key because it takes 20 people to kickstart a car.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about the complexities of starting a Formula One car, and that's why we have 20 people in the garage.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that is such a cool, but not a single, I think.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a question that definitely more than that person had.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that, and you can see it by the that by the by the the comment section is just like, and my favorite, when I know I've done a really good piece of content or video is when simultaneously someone will say, I've been watching this sport for 50 years, and I'd ne I A never thought about this or never got any answer to this, or someone who's just started the sport and goes, Oh my god, this sport is so cool and there's so many layers, and I'm hooked.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's when I know I've got a winning combo, and not every piece of content will be that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point, ask the questions.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that has the one thing that I will always stay true to is ask the questions and I'll do my absolute best to bring you along on the journey.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if a video, and I have videos that take a couple of hours to make together, but I have videos that I'm still working on that I started two years ago.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't got all the right pieces to the puddle.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't got the b-roll that I need.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, I'm very patient.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if I don't need the clickbait, I don't need a sensationalist contact, I don't need it to come out before anyone else, it will take the time it takes for it to be absolutely right.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: A huge thank you to my friends at Granola for sponsoring the Good Work Talk Show.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: I started using granola as just a note taker, but now I use it for every type of meeting and conversation, from quick check-ins to creative collaborations and everything in between.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Granola is an AI notepad that transcribes meetings, whether online or in person, and it creates amazing summaries that you can chat with and you can ask follow-up questions to well after the meeting is over.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: As a busy person with a full-time job and a couple of side projects, I truly couldn't keep track of all of it without Granola.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: It helps me stay focused and stay present while still capturing all the details and the important to-dos in the background.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I even used it on all of these episodes, so you'll be able to check the notes for each show and chat with them just like you were sitting here with us.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Granola also has features for following up and for drafting to-do lists.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: It definitely saves me from dropping balls and it helps me do what I say I'll do.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: The best way to check it out is to try it in your next meeting.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: To read the summary of today's show and chat with that summary, you can visit granola.ai slash goodwork.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a new granola user, you'll get three months free.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Again, that's granola.ai slash goodwork.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: So granola, I've been transcribing our conversation so far.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so this is an app, right?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: So what does it do?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's an app for your phone or on your desktop, I can show you.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been transcribing our conversation this whole time.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just been running.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, live live transcript.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, live transcript.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm gonna ask it to review my conversation so far with Tony.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: With Tony and recommend the next question I should ask her.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, how cool.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the real use case for this is a very um niche use case for it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the transcripts uh are like all saved and you can sort them and you can file them and all of those things.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: But then you can chat with them later to be like, what were the five takeaways from this conversation?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Or like I use it a lot to be like um.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So go for newsletters.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: What did I promise everyone this week that I wouldn't done?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: So then I can run through it because inevitably I have five.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the really annoying assistant or person on your team that's very good at their job that just like, Mallory, just heads up.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: You told us you were gonna do X, Y, and Z and it hasn't been done.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Granola has thought has come up with the next question.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't this exciting?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually nervous.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned that all your best deals came from content and thought leadership, not traditional sales.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now that you're building a media business around that, what does monetization actually look like?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: And where do you draw the line between staying authentic and treating your audience as a commercial asset?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually a brilliant question.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's one that I get asked.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, I can't take any credit.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't take any credit on this.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: All your questions were very good, Matherie.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: But this one particularly was very good for someone eavesdropping into the conversation.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a question I got asked all the time, and I am actually, it's one of the things maybe I am uber clear on.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I monetize my brain, not my lifestyle.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Full stop.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have endless opinions and thoughts and thought leadership, and I will happily wake up any day, turn on the camera or start a Substack newsletter post and just talk, right about the things that I care about.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the part of my life I want to monetize.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that is down the line a book deal, whether that is a course, which I don't think I would actually go into, whether that is a show, whether these are my videos, um campaigns I do with brands.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think during race weekend specifically, my time is every 15 minutes.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like every 15 minutes I'm doing something, I have something to do.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: That the last thing I want to do after a 12-hour day at the track is talk about an incredible hotel that has gifted me a say.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, sometimes when I'm paying for hotels and I'm like, this is an exorbitant amount when you go to the Monaco GP, you go, I'm sorry, the price tag is what for this?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you kind of go, Oh, you know what feels really good right now is a hotel partnership.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe, maybe one day that will come.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I am incapable of monetizing my lifestyle.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my life is incredibly private.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, two of fun fact, two of the most Google things about me is Tony Cameron Brown husband and Tony Cameron Brown age.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my husband feels delighted that he has a big part in my life to be able to do it.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're a popular guy.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's like, no one knows it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: And no, truly, no, like there are no pictures.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do not share that part of my life.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I also just think I'm not very good at it.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm not very good at pushing a product to anyone.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just not a thing I'm passionate about.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's weird because there are tools in my life that I will absolutely talk about again and again.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if those natural pieces come.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that is how I've approached selling and making money.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually the exact same.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: People, whether it's an IBM, whether it's an AWS, whether it's uh Google, whether it's a team, whether it's the FIA, which is the regulatory body, they come to me for the opinions and the thoughts that I have.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the best deals I've done is when that has been super clear.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm working with Apple right now, and I love working with them.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're some of the easiest to work with for me, because clearly the due diligence has been done, and they're not asking me to push any of their products.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're quite literally asking me to talk about things that I've talked about.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been so excited about the fact, for those who don't know, that Apple is now the broadcaster and the home of Formula One in America.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I've loved talking about the broadcaster wars.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: My tech brain has been excited about when Apple comes into this, the full tech stack, and how are they gonna bring in all of their tools?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: How are they gonna bring in music, maps, and they've done some so I will talk endlessly about that?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for Apple, they're like, this is great, here's some money, keep talking about what you're talking.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: The script approval is barely a script approval.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, this is the key messaging that we're thinking about.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, great, that's the stuff I actually want to talk about.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only been a couple of deals where I've been like, this is a match made in hell.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is just never meant to be.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking me, and these are things where I'll happily tell the brand, look, use someone internal.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: You clearly want me to say the words in your own language, and it's just not how I talk.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the one time that I think someone has called me out and said, What are you doing?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yep, I know.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole thing about being your own boss is there's no one who's gonna call me out on my BS, but there's also the entire internet who will call me out on my BS and be like, What are you doing?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Without context.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Without context, you're just like, I need to get paid at some point.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Please.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then figuring out how I get paid and what makes me happy and what works for me has been a really interesting job.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's I'm sure an ongoing process for you as well.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've got it down to a T now, more or less, she says.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it get all take a-no we're gonna do it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: So how's that going?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I figured out this four bucket, this three buckets for me, and it's either of why I would take a deal, and I need two of those to be filled.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the first one is the pay is good.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be real, we all have bills to pay, so the pay is good.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: The second one is you're giving me access to something that no one has access to, which allows me to make phenomenal content, which I know is gonna do really well, which I know is gonna make views, which will get me my next job opportunity.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third one is I just get to learn something really, really cool.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if all three get ticked, I'm as happy as it can be, but for me, you just need both of those.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just juggling between that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I've actually done that, in the way I've approached my work and why I think I'm in a weird spot when it comes to just content creation of itself, is I have the journalistic lens where I get proper media accreditation, I'm treated as part of the press core, and that is you go on press trips and you interview and all of that.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: The difference is I don't have an editor that would be paying.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: For the bills that has shifted now as I've started my role as editor at large with S's, and that's been really fun to do that shift and see that in a different way.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's all the content creation that I do that are sort of paid campaigns and paid ads.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there's all the content that I will do regardless, that I pay for, that I go out of my way, but those videos generally do really well.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the third bucket, which is I'm a pretty good moderator and a very good speaker, and so I get paid to do those things.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, all of that is actually monetizing my brain.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know there's another pocket of money that is money that I'm currently leaving on the table, which is about monetizing my lifestyle.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And right now I just don't think I have time for it.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: My next question was going to be how do you decide what to say yes or no to as you build a portfolio of goals and projects.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: But um, we just talked on the monetization piece.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that like weighs in there, or is that really I mean, you also talked about learning.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like you gave a pretty complete answer there, but I'm curious if there was anything else.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you learn.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: You there's partners that you think would make for great partners, and you realize they're not right for you, and you go, that's totally fine.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think for me in Formula One, I have a lens that I look at it, and I kind of called it a shit test, which is a bit of a not a nice way of putting it, but it truly is that where I will because there's a lot of agencies and there's a lot of people now in Formula One, and there's a lot of people who want to be in Formula One, and there's a lot of people who actually don't know what they can and can't do, and there's an incredible amount of red tape.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have a couple of questions that I ask people that make me understand if you understand this space or if you're just bullshitting.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I generally won't work with them only because two things will happen.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: One, I'm gonna have to teach them how to navigate Formula One, and I don't have the time for it, and I'm certainly not being paid for it, and it's really valuable information.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also, agencies have a tendency to say yes to everything, they can do everything and realize they can't.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: B, I know that my life will be really complicated as we they are navigating their first time attending a race, and so am I, and we're realizing we don't actually have access to the track, we actually can't film this.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: They thought they could do this, but they couldn't.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of stakeholders in Formula One, so there's a lot of agencies, um, there's a lot of brands, there's a lot of brand partnerships, and those I have that sort of those few questions that I ask people, and I just know oh, it's just not worth the money.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or I will say, hey, we're navigating this together.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of insights that you don't, so the price tag is actually going to be exponentially high because you're not paying for a content creator or an influencer.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're actually there's a consultancy fee here that I can help you and the four or five other content creators you're working with navigate.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to be paid, of course.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be paid and you have to be okay with that.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is that is mostly the lens that I look at it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the look, Hallerie, you know this more than anyone.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: The most incredible thing is there are so many other avenues that we haven't even scratched the surface on that could be ways of making money that I just haven't thought about yet.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: I make very little money from the platforms themselves, and I'm kind of okay with that because the reality is all the content that I put on platforms, I don't actually own the relationship with my user base.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't have their direct email addresses.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: If TikTok leaves, you know, disappears tomorrow, if Instagram disappears tomorrow, which I really hope they don't, but you just never know.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have those hundred and twenty thousand people in my backpack.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know who you are, um, which is was the impetus of actually really focusing on the newsletter as well.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because we're on rented land as a weird way of saying that.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: I went through the same thing coming from LinkedIn to starting good work and the Substack and this talk show and all of these things, developing your own kind of direct relationship with that.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still, I'm curious actually, do you still use LinkedIn as a funnel to bring people together?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: I also think it's just uh it's a space I enjoy showing up in.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what's nice is now that I have another owned space, I don't feel required to show up in it as often, which has made it more fun.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because now it's not my only space.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's your house that you're building.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a fun way to bring people in and introduce myself to new people, but uh the stakes aren't quite as high anymore.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's cool.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I love about your content is that it's fucking gorgeous.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like everything you make is beautiful.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much craft in it, and I think that's so much of what stands out, especially in like a male-dominated space.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's such interesting, visually interesting content.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to hear how you think about craft as part of work.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you how important do you think it is?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I from the outside, it seems like you put a very heavy weight on it, but there's obviously a spectrum of sort of craft and in how people work and how people create content.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just curious what comes to mind for you on that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: No one's ever said that to me, and it slaps a massive smile on my face.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I also can take zero credit.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like that I don't believe that at all.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because here's the thing: I have good taste.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I think I do.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Your home is from what I can see, is beautiful.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Sweet.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: You have great taste back at you.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: You definitely can't.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: People can't see the home, but it's stunning.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your home.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have good taste, I don't know how to get there.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I mean by that is I the best thing I ever did was, and it's weird, it's a it's a friend of mine, Alex, who said this to me because I was trying to build Sunday Fangirls, which is this platform and this idea that I have, which was really to sort of shake the business and highlight female fandom and everything they bring to the sport.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: And my two talking points on that, but I won't dwell on it, is very much female fans in sports bring incredible relevancy.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's the relevancy that everyone is chasing, whether you're a brand, whether you're a series, and economic power, women like 10x the value of anything.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: They don't just come with their partner, they come with their five girlfriends or their entire family.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like they add monetary value everywhere.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I had this idea with Sunday fangirls, and I really wanted to create incredible merch that women would want to wear and men would want to wear away from the track as well, that was also just like this beacon and this messaging.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I knew what I wanted it to look like, but I do not have the skill set to design that.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember saying this to Alex, to my friend, and she was like, You have an incredible community.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just put out the ask of any creative designers or designers out there who would be willing to help.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No one's gonna want to help.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, as a community leader, I know what comes next.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Two or three people just like put their with incredible portfolios.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Funnily enough, people love to help and be part of something, and be part of something meaningful and the joy and what something they enjoy and something they love.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's weird because I would do that, yeah.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so and but again, I know that that comes from my childhood of not wanting to ask for help from anyone and just getting it done myself.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: And out came Cody Chan, who is an absolute godsend and a phenomenal designer and creative thinker, and she has become the the creative brains behind Sunday Fangirl, and I will never forget her designing up a few things and me being like yes, yes, to everyone.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, but do what do I change?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: And her and I just we have two completely different skill sets, completely different.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: I could not in a million years do what she does, and I think vice versa, although I won't speak for her.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and but we are on exactly the same page.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like and she's she I think she enjoys working with me because I'm like, I can't pretend.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna come back with notes about maybe change the few of you.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's perfect.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and if you have if you want to make it better and you think you can make it better, off you go.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think she enjoys that creative liberty, and I enjoy just having my ideas.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I will, I love brainstorming with her because I'll say, Here are my ideas, here's where I'm thinking, here's what I've loved and not loved, and she will sh really just produce something that I'm just like, I don't know how you've done this.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is incredible.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing skill set.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: An amazing skill set, absolutely phenomenal.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: So she is a big part of that.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: She helped me rebrand the newsletter, and I can't wait to do more.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just requires for me to get more funding, I think, to build up Sunday Fangirls.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what I've loved is to be able to take her on the journey and get her in front of other job opportunities.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just good people deserve just the bet, very best.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate you saying that because I don't think anyone has ever said that.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think that's how I found myself with S's as well, who are producing a phenomenal magazine and they have great taste and they know what beautiful looks like.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there is that realization that I don't think we really have had in mode sport we've lost in the last 10 years of we can have both.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: We can have something that's aesthetically pleasing, whether that's merchandise, magazines, and it'd be serious.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the one thing that women do incredibly well are now kind of unapologetic about, is like I can dress the part and be taken seriously.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, going back to the one question that you asked, which maybe I didn't say and that is important when you were asking, like, would you censor yourself or do you show up in a different way?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: The one way I did show up differently, and I think part of it was practicality, but I know there was something behind, was the way I showed up at track and track side was always baggy jeans and a baggy t-shirt, no heels, no skin tight clothing.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's weird because I don't like that, but I also knew that I know what I sounded like and looked like.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: No one knew who I was, and I was like, I need the mechanics and the engineers to take me very seriously that I am gonna respect this space.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell the stories to absolute perfection, I want every detail to be correct, and I don't want there to be any distractions.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you are kind of forgotten when you're in the garage, especially when you're a woman and you're just sat in the corner and you're just wearing baggy clothes, and you get, and again, I think that's part of me not wanting to stand out.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like dress when I would be in the corporate world and you pick out the right outfit.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: This was me picking out an outfit that would look like not an outfit that you would think about picking, but it was purposeful.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: I that's changed ever so slightly, but mostly because I've had to, because now I'm doing public speaking and then running to the track and then sitting in a garage, and then and that's the weird thing that I think men have a it's a weird logistical nightmare that I didn't think I would ever have to handle.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Which one part is okay, I'm on a panel with Claire Williams and David Coulter, and I have to look decent, and then I'm running to the track, but I'm gonna be sweating bullets in Miami Heat, and I need to not be in too big of a heel that I can actually sit down, but I also need to be able to crouch.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the weird thing in Formula One is all the sponsors, and I'm like, oh, I'm wearing Adidas, oh, I'm with Mercedes, oh, is Mercedes okay, great.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's Nike involved, now there's Puma.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I very much learned to dress completely unbranded.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a single brand on me, and I was never a brand person, but that is an additional layer of competition.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Which again is things that when I talk with potential partners and influencers, and I'm like, this has to be part of your brief.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Your influencer is going to show up with a sponsorship deal from another brand that has nothing to do with Formula One.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you won't be able to use any of their content because you were invited by Kuma and she is wearing on.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And or he is wearing on.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Last question.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: What does good work mean to you?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think good work is?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: Good work for me is anything that adds value, whether it's to yourself or to a broader community.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's anything that you can step back from look at and be proud of.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's that reflection of how lucky we are to do the thing that we've chosen to do.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um by choice.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we I truly decided that even though I tripped and fell into this space, um, I could do, I could stop tomorrow and do something else.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I can play around, and I just I don't know.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: I it's weirdly it's the thing that I think about a lot of I get to do what I want to do.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not working to be able solely to pay a job, uh, to pay a bill, sorry, and this is the only job I could find, and this is the work I have to do.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like what an incredible privileged position we are in to be able to do good work.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then there are people who are forced to do the jobs they have to do who are also doing incredible good work.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just think there's something exponentially that I don't take for granted, basically.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: When you get to do good work and you get to do good work that you choose to do, um you'd be an idiot um not to take full advantage of that.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I also think good work comes from great people and great collaborations and great partnerships and being open to it's a hard question, being open to anything that comes your way.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think about it a lot.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's it is a hard question.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I need a whole interview series to figure it out.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: But wait, what did did it the did that just come to you, the good work piece?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or was it a thoughtful, I need these words to be in?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was that.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, throughout my career, it's always been about like, wow, good work.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh it is it's a it's a phrase that's just thrown around.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it can mean I I became very aware of it meaning a lot of different things depending on the context, and then it became this kind of like obsessive philosophical question for me of like what what is good work?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what makes work good?
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because you say at the end of a meeting, good work, good work, good work team, right?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that means that someone did something that was really high impact, sometimes that means that they did something that they were like really passionate about, and it was cool to see them step into that.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've had that experience a ton with especially younger employees when I see them kind of take a risk.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell them good work, even if the work itself maybe wasn't excellent, like could work on being brave, good work on taking a risk, good work on like it can just mean so many different things.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think because work is one of these things that we all do, yeah.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of what makes what makes work good, what makes good work is is just really I don't think there's an answer.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just a really interesting question to and it's funny for me because it truly is when people are just like, just go and get a hobby.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I will turn that hobby into work.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh I'm the same.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: I stop it.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: All my hobbies.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think my my French bulldog is the and even then, I'm like, I will be the best.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: French bulldog mother of my I can be.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it crazy?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because I think this is to going back to question, like I had a blast running political campaigns, I had a blast running a tech, um, a tech business um with America.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I learned so much, but I have to pinch myself, especially my people in who live in a corporate world, say on it's a nine to five job, who are just like, you are track side in garages, talking with some of the greatest drivers, and you get to listen and learn from them, and then you're what invited by the royal family to get like they're just it's but you know why.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know why you get to do all those things because you do really good work.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be excited.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's close it on that.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all right, Tony, thank you so much for being here.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: This was great.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: This was a blast.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: This has been good work.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's a phenomenal question.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.