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This Is Bisexual Culture · Like a Virgin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Might what about it? That's what that. So it's been
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: such a fun month of doing these super special, super
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: spooky Halloween Spectacular episodes. And I'm not even spooky like that,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: but like I got spooky this month. I watched a
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: lot of scary movies. Yeah, and I've really enjoyed the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: chance to really focus in on one piece of media
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: and each of these bonus episodes, and this week we're
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: doing one that even before, like a virgin, you know,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: took another look back at this piece of media. This
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: is something that has already been given this you know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: broader cultural reassessment, um. And that is Jennifer's Body, you know,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the Diabolo Cody film starring Nick and Fox and Amanda Seyfrid.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And we're going to talk a lot about it's played
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: some pop culture when it came out, why it was
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: so you know, maligned and misunderstood, and I guess off
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: screen controversy that like maybe made the film less successful
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: than it could have been. And we also talked about
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: that lesbian kiss and of course, yeah, and how it's
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: been you know, reclaimed and reassessed through a contemporary lens,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: because this is like a Virgin, the show where we
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm most am you
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto Virgins. If you follow us on
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Instagram at like a Virgin, you will know that we
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: did ask your opinion on what films and spooky themes
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: we should talk about this month. You also should know
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that we just fully disregarded all of your suggestions. Yeah, sorry,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: but you're not going to be disappointed with what we
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: chose instead. No, we were trying to account for one
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: past episode and the episode we decided to do. Well.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: This is the last episode of series, but the last
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: episode we are recording, um and the one that we're
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: filling is for Jennifer's Body, which deserves to be discussed.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: You know, it is a cult classic. It really has
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: been you know, reclaimed in recent years as you know,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: part of Queer Girl canon. I think it also reverses
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: something in a quintessential like a version analysis, which is
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that the you know a lot of times we watch
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: our read or look at things and it's like this
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: thing was very relevant then and it's like a little
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: less relevant now, and now we're consuming something that was
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: like at the time critically panned or had a lot
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of controversy or like negative criticism around it, and now
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: um people are thinking that it was maybe more ahead
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of its time, very ahead of its time for the Virgins.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's Body is a two nine film written by Diablo
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Cody about need Liz Nikki and her best friend Jennifer
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: check Um. They are besties living in you know, like
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: this ass backwards town and a emo band fronted by
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Adam Brody of the O C Fame visits their town
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and he and his bandmates, because they want to become famous,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: sacrifice Jennifer as part of a satanic ritual because they
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: think she's a virgin. But she's not a virgin. So
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the ritual goes wrong and she becomes a demon. She
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: becomes a succubus, and she starts feeding off of not people.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: She specifies she's not killing people, she's killing boys, so
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: she starts seducing and then eating these boys who make
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: her powerful. Needy knows what's going on, UM, and you know,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: UH is not going to let Jennifer you know, kill
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: these boys, even though we'll get to this later. I
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: think she should have Um and the the movie ends
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: spoiler alert with Needy killing Jennifer and winding up in prison,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: but then she escapes at the end of the film
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: and goes to exact revenge on the band. Um. The
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: movie stars Amanda Cyfred is Needy, Megan Fox as Jennifer.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: It is iconic in many ways. Um, something that should
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: be said is like that that Needy is kind of
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: like this nerd, which like lalad Amanda Cyford like playing
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a nerd, like she's she's so beautiful, She's so beautiful,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: like there's no world she would ever fall into that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: like category. But I don't know that she's a nerd
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: as much as she's a horse girl. She's a horse girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: she's there is always that really beautiful but just weird
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: girl in school who has hair as long as Amanda
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Cyford's hair is. It's it's just silly, but it but
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: it um the movie in general is actually playing into
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: tropes that we might find in like an after school special.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Like it has that kind kind of pulpy like after
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: school special quality to it that is very aware of itself.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And so Jennifer is like this liberated hot like slut
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: who Needy almost um well actually no, definitely looks up
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: to like at the beginning, at least at the beginning
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: of the movie, like she sees her as this pinnacle
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of like sexual liberation that she doesn't quite have access
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to yet. And I do think that the way Diablo
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Cody wrote this movie, it like champions the like kind
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: of high school drama component of it as much as
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it champions the horror um so it blends those together.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, the opening line of the film is Hell
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: is a teenage girl, which you know, I think it's
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: interesting for me to look back on this is you know,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I was never a teenage girl. So I don't know
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: how true that statement is. I can imagine it is
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: very true, and I think I've consumed enough media to
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: know that that it is. And you know, that statement
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: is proven by the way that this film was received.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So I do want to talk a little bit about
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the context of when this movie is released, because I
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: think it says a lot about the way it was received.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So this movie came out in two thousand nine. It's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: written by Diablo Cody, who was fresh off of the
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: incredible surprising success of Juno Um, winning the Oscar for
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the screenplay and nominated for Best Picture. Probably probably were
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: you a Juno head? I loved the movie, Yeah, I
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: you know kim Yall Dawson and soundtrack. I definitely. Um.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I was like a Juno stand
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: but I did watch the movie over and over again
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and love the soundtrack. And I wanted to be Diablo
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Coody like I wanted to write something quirky and indie
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: like her. Yeah. The movie was directed by Karen kusama
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Um who directed Girl Fight a on Flux a couple
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of years ago. She directed that movie Destroyer with Nicole
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Kidman with the wig um oh my gosh, and yeah,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and Megan Fox was fresh off of the Transformer sequel.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Amanda Seyfrid was fresh off of Mamma Mia. So you
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: look at this film and it's all of these women
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: who are really at that peak in many ways of
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: their fame, and so it had all of the ingredients
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: to be this really successful film, and it was a
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: huge flop um both commercially and critically. It only made
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: it made like barely twice it's budget. It currently has
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a fort on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think that's crazy
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that it hasn't gotten bumped up by you know, the
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: all of the people who still love it and the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: way it's been you know, sort of reassessed today. But
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's very telling of where we were in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: pop culture in two thousand nine. So you have to
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: think about and we we've talked a little bit about
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: this before in our Twilight episode. Two thousand nine was
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: like peak Twilight Mania. So we're at this time and yeah,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: we're at this time in culture where no one in
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: pop culture is more hated than the teenage girl. You know, um,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: so hell is a teenage girl. It was a time
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: when there was all of this real anger and uh, misogyny,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: misogyny at work because teenage girls had proven their capitalistic
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: power to control media, um and to prop up the
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: things that they were interested in, and so because of that,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: they became the butt of every joke. You know. It
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: was just a time when if a teenage girl liked something,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: then that was just all the more reason for people
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: to hate it and to hate teenage girls themselves. So
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: it's no surprise that this film, which is about teenage girls,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: was I'm sure marketed to them, uh, was you know,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: critically panned and was a huge flop. Well what's actually, um,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I was reading a little bit and prep for this episode.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I was reading about like the runway to the movie
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and and how that kind of teenage girl thing came
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: into fold and I you know, they greenlit this movie
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and you know paid for it, um right after Juno,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: just as you said, and um, and when it was announced,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: like nothing's even in production. When it was announced, people
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: were protesting it because by then people already had a
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: problem with I guess like Diablo Cody, you know, succeeding
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: as a woman. But also just like the conceit of
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: it was like for some reason offensive to like certain
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: classes of people, which is insane. Um. But that is
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: just your as you're saying, the kind of white hot
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: heat that was on Diablo Cody at the time. But
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I think that in you know, recent interviews and when
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: this movie is being looked at retrospectively, which it is,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you know a lot, especially last I want to say,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: last year, like Megan Fox had a little bit of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: a comeback. Megan Fox had her you know resurgence into
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: pop culture. Um. There were a lot of the younger
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: generation of celebrities we have now, um directly referencing Jennifer's body,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: like Olivia Rodrigo and her Good for You music video
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: like is very obviously referencing Jennifer's body. So last year
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: was was a big moment for you know, reclaiming this film,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: especially among queer women. Um and I think both young
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: queer women and also the queer women who probably loved
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: this film when it first came out, you know the
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: way that I did, exactly, But um, what what's interesting
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: about your Like the way you were thinking about, like
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: how this movie is for teenage girls is exactly correct,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: but that's not how the movie was marketed. So Diablo
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Cody and Karen Kusama went up against like the kind
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: of powers that be about how the film were to
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: be marketed, and they just like would not hear them.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: They were like, no, this movie is for teen boys
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: because their horny period, Like we're not doing anything outside
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: of that, and the movie I feel maybe didn't find
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: it's real audience, um, because there was this kind of
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: patent refusal to like see teenage girls as a viable
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: audience for horror. Um. And so there was actually this
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: really funny moment in one of the interviews with Diablo
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Cody I was reading wherein they were being presented a
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: very like misogynist ad um fixating on Jennifer's hotness, which
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was kind of like the definitely the trailer, which she
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: also hated, like definitely the marketing plan like Megan Fox
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: being hot is like obviously was a part of the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: pr plan um. And Cody like you know, replied to
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the email and was like, hey, can you like clarify
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: like why you think this is like good for the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: movie or like what you think this this will do
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: for the movie? And the email they got in response,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Cody said, was Jennifer sexy. She steal your boyfriend, like fully,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: not a full sentence, like not even grammatically correct, like
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: she said, it was as if a caveman had written it,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and that was like what she was up against, trying
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to help the film find its audience, which it maybe
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: didn't until later years. Yeah, and you know, watching it
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: again because I watched it last night preparing for this,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: it's directly at odds with the actual product because I
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: every time I revisit this movie, I'm like, am I
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: am I like misremembering it? Am I remembering it as
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: being more for women than it actually was? And I'm
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: not because it really is. This movie is one of
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the best examples of the female gays in film I've
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: ever seen, like down to the literal gaze of the camera.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the most iconic image of this
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: movie is Megan Fox swimming in the lake after she's
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: eating her first victim. You know, that's like the reference
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: that Olivia Rodrigo pulled. And in a movie that was
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: directed by a man, when Jennifer gets out of the water,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: you know, the camera would have lingered on like her
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: back and her as the parts that they think men
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: want to see. But then the way that it's shot
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: in this movie is she gets out of the water
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and it's her wringing her hair out and very simple.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: It's it's just like it's so obviously the gaze of
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: a woman. And even in the scene where Needy and
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Jennifer kiss later in the film, it's not exploitative in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: a way that I think a movie made by a
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: male director would be. The shot is so close on
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: their lips. It's such a hot but it's for like
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: all genders, like it's everybody, but it also is very
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: fem It's the gaze is on their lips, it's on
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the tenderness and the intimacy and it's sticky and sweet
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and intense, but not like pornographic at any point. Like
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I was kind of I want to get your take
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on that scene in general, like how you felt about it.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I when I was reading about this, people took huge
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: issue with the fact that there was a makeout scene,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Like queer people were like, this is exploitative and like
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: or like this is like so gratuitous or whatever, or
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: maybe like it was more like feminist critiques. We're like,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: this is so for the male gaze. Like I didn't
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: feel that was true at all. No, I think that's misogyny.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's misogyny to think that a movie written by,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: directed by, and starring women could not include a very
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: like honest depiction of teen queer sexuality. Like I think
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: it's so believable that these girls are obsessed with each
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: other in a way that includes being sexually interested in
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: each other, and of course that would come out as
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: a kiss, like it's hammered in so often in this
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: movie that Needy is the one exception to Jennifer's you
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: know evil. When she first becomes a demon, she goes
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: immediately to Needy. She doesn't hurt her because she loves her,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and so of course there is an undercurrent of that
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: being sexual attraction. And yeah, I absolutely believe that they
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: would make out. I actually would believe that they've made
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: out before. Yeah. I actually would be mad if they
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: hadn't made out. I know, That's all she said. Well,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: she even says, like, um, let's play we can play
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a boyfriend girlfriend like we used to. Yes, exactly, Like
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the infatuation is there, and also like there through the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: whole movie, it's not unearned at all. And also it
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: makes sense plot wise because you know, Jennifer seduces her victims,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like and so this is when they were kissing, you
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: have these little alarm bells going off. You're like, oh no, no,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: this means that she's gonna die. Like it also has
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: a kind of functioning foreshadow. Um as much as it,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: you know, was just earned in the emotional intimacy of
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the characters. And it's so good and it's it's this
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: is bisexual culture, you know, and she's by like the
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: character I think that Jennifer is by she kind of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: she literally says when when they're in the pool, the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: pool scene, she says, I thought you only killed boys
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I swing both ways. It's supposed to be explicitly bisexual,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and I think at the time in two thousand nine,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: people were like, well, that's just a joke. It wasn't
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: a joke. Oh, it's like why would you write it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: At the time of like Juno, like they were making
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: jokes about Diablo Cody on like Family Guy, you know
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like she became Diablo Cody's whole sensibility.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I think with Juno became this easy joke, you know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And that very much was grafted onto this film and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the way it was received, which is crazy because actually,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: like um, even though like critically the noise around it
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: was loudly negative, like Roger Ebert loved like that, they
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: loved this film like that. It got positive reviews in
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the time. I think the Times like got a ton
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: of really positive criticism, but because the conversation around Diablo
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Cody was so loud um that it just like consumed
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the kind of lens through which the movie was being
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: looked at. And that was then um compounded with the
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Michael Bay drama, which is during the press junket of
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: this movie, like around the movie was being around the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: time the movie is being marketed. Megan Fox said really
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: negative things about Michael Bay, the director of trans Farmers,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the movie she had just come off of, and she
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: also called him like Hitler, which is like, you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: not very like um intentional words, but like she had
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a horrible experience working with him, and for anybody like
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: for her to do this in like a pre two
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: era like is crazy, you know what I mean, Like
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: that is unheard of. It. It gives me just so
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: much more love and respect um for Megan Fox just
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: as an actor in general, Like she was blacklisted by
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Michael Bay and like was like essentially like talk made
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: toxic in film and TV after this, And I think
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: their favorability of both Megan and Diablo went significantly down
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: because of Jennifer's body totally. And I think with the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Diablo cody of it all, I'm sure there was also
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this expectation because you look at these two films, right,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you look at Juno, which almost has this like righteousness
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to it of this character who like does this you know,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: good thing, and like you know, she gets pregnant, she
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: gives her baby up for adoption. Like there's this I'm
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: not I'm not gonna say like st Lena's to Juno.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: But it's a very twee film. It's very sweet, it's
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it's very much a feel good movie. You immediately fall
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: in love with everyone involved and become protective Juno. And
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: so then for the follow up to that to be this,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So you have all these people who are already poised
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: to not like Diablo Cody, and then she writes this
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: movie about a bloodsucking female demon, you know, it's giving unfortunately,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: gave people weapons to use against her. I wonder, like,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: not that I want this to happen, but I wonder,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: like what would have happened to either Megan or Diablo
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: if this if Jennifer's body was instead her like fifth
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: or sixth film, you know what I mean, Like if
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: it had come later in her career, when there was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: there was like more breathing room around, you know, her
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: success or something, or it just felt like consequently and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time, Because
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, if this movie came out today,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: this was a first time filmmaker and it was an movie,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it would like it would be an Oscar nomination, you
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: know it actually like there should know I was gonna
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: say there should be a reboot, but like, there should
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: just be more movies like it. There should be so
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: many more movies. I mean, I mean there are and
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: there there's movies and TV shows like it. And I
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: think so much of the media that we enjoy and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: consume probably does owe a debt to Jennifer's body in
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a way. And I think it's really ahead of its time.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's it's not perfect. There's some no, there's
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: some very racist jokes in it. Um and you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: there's a Chris Pratt jump scare and oh my god,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and then Chris Pratt says the word fags or whatever
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: he says like saga like oh my god, it's two
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: on the nose right now. Um It. It's just a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: good movie. It's a good scary movie. Megan Fox is
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: genuinely terrifying, and she's also acting like she plays it
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: completely serious. Like a lot of the rest of the movie,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I would say, it's like pretty camp, and she decided
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: to play it straight. And I have so much respect
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: for her because of that, you know, And it also
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: just made me appreciative of what is demanded of an
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: actor in an action movie. I know, that Jennifer's body
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: is less of an action movie than Transformers. But I
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: was like, that really is like a whole different breadth
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of skill sets that you have to take on and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and habit in your body in order to do this acting. Yeah,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: and she and a man to deliver Diablo Cody's lines
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: so well that scene in the Poolhouse where Amanda Cyford
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: says something like when she's floating, she's like, oh, you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: show off, And she's like, do you have to like,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you know, like have an opinion on everything I do?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: It's it's just so funny. She's literally floating through the air, demonic,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: he possessed, and she's like, why do you why do
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: you always have to like, you know, denigrate what I
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: It's just like it's like a caddy girl fight, but
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: she's floating in the air. It's genius. It's like really smart.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: It's cinematic invention, like we've never seen that before. But yeah,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the movie, the ending, I didn't love the ending ending. Yeah,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So this is my problem is that I do think
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: if the movie were made today, it would end with
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Needy also becoming a demon and her and Jennifer being
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: together being a couple and just like going off and
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: killing people, and that's how it should have ended. There
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: could have been like a love story in there somewhere.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I think it could have been, Like I mean, especially
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: now that like culture is like not completely primed, but
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: more prime than in two thousand nine, for like a
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: kind of lesbian revenge fantasy like that would absolutely eat
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: because Needy is a little sanctimonious. She's like, you're doing
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: bad things and you kill my boyfriend, so I'm gonna
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: kill you, and I mean fair, but also like this
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: is your best friend. Shouldn't you kind of be on
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: her side a little bit? Yeah, figure out how you
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: can exercise the semen or you know, all these different things. Um.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Can we also talk about the soundtrack of this movie.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is I think this is the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: first time I heard Florence the Machine was kiss with
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: a Fist because the trailer, it's in the it's in
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the movie. I know it's in the movie, but I
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: was wondering if it was also I don't know it
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: might have been in the trailer because two nine is
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the year that Lungs came out. It was with the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Fist was the first single, So I do believe that
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: this was how I discovered Florence the Machine. And also,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: let's say it the song that Low Shoulder that becomes
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: famous in the movie because of their satanic ritual and
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: becomes like the soundtrack of of Devil's Kettle the town
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and like everything bad that happens there, it does up
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: its laps. And also there's a there's a song by
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the Black Kids that drops. It's called I'm Not going
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to Teach your Boyfriend how to Dance with You, and
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: it sent me down such a huge spiral. I like
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: had no choice but to make like an indies Lee's playlist.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Um I I I had not heard that song in
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: ages UM. And I also think kiss with a Fist
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: is also in that like kind of era of music.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I was reading later that UM the soundtrack was produced
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: by Fueled by Ramen. Do you remember Fueled by Ramen? Girl?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, damn, Like I want
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: like movies to go back to this because that like
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: era of music, Like I mean, it was very like
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Sufjan Stevens kind of me. It's it's indie music that
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know. This is like um discovering the Kills through
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a Gossip Girl episode. Era Yeah, this is like the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: era of Paramore, Paramore of Feist being in an iPod commercial.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: You know, this this US you know they even Adam
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Adam Brody even says, do you know how hard it
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: is to make it as an indie band these days?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And like has the whole spiel and theble Cody's like
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: love for indie music, I think is something I appreciate.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Like Kimmy add Austin was like a nobody before that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: movie and she I think her love of indie music
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: is actually something is something that isn't always appreciated. You know.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I did realize in watching this film that possession movies
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: are not really my go to with horror and kind
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: of a bit of a blind spot for me. Like
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: obviously I've seen The Exorcist. Have you ever? I think
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I had to go home early because I was so scared.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It was really scary. It is, it is really scary.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Um It's but it's not like Super I don't. I don't,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not obsessed with it. Like I get,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I get that are very of their time. Yeah, I
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: get that it's a great movie, but it's not one
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that I've really wanted to revisit a lot. You know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: there's Hereditary, which I have truly only ever been able
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: to watch once. The first time I saw it in
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: theaters so so so scary. I still think about Tony
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Colette hovering over the bed. My old apartment in Brooklyn
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: had really tall ceilings, and any time the lights were off,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, Tony Colette is up there. She's gonna
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: get me. She's gonna like swim past my head. It's
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the scariest part of Um. Have you seen Ghostbusters? Uh? Yeah,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I have? Okay, So Sigourney Weaver in the movie where
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: she gets possessed by the demon, she's feeling a little
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's body. Yeah, she is. Sigourney honestly is something of
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: like a kind of action thrilled. She honestly, like Megan
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: fa could have been the next Sigourney kind of not
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: known like alien transformers like the Alien No I haven't,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: but like versatility, like in like a kind of Blockbuster action,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: but also able to do something like campy and stupid.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Where do we what do we think Megan Fox's career
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: would be today if she hadn't been blacklisted. Oh that's
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: a good question. I feel like she she would not
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: be dating Machine Gun Kelly. Let's say that. No, No,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I mean I hope, I hope not she would be
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: dating Megan Kelly, as we said during our Hogus book
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: is rewatch um. But no, I think if she, if she,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: she would probably be the muse of someone like maybe
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: even she would maybe be in an r astro movie,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: you know who. I think she would kind of be
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: giving a little bit. I think she'd be a sort
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of Juliette Lewis figure. Oh, I could see that. I
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: mean she's not like kind of cantankerous like Juliet Lewis.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: She'd be sexy Juliette Lewis, sexy comedic relief because let's
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Megan Fox has amazing comedic timing um and also like
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: incisive intense, a dead pan like unfazed by the world,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: by everything around her, um, and you know, it's really
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: fear like Juliet Lewis is definitely like one of those
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: fearless characters. Megan Fox is definitely one of those people too.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I hope that she does more things. It doesn't seem
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: despite her renaissance um last year, if it is a zance,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like she's signed up to do more movies.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: It has more been a it has more been about
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: her as a person than has been about her as
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: an actress. She did some like Netflix vampire show or
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: movie or something she did. Yeah, but I think she
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: should do something like a Yellow Jackets, like not not
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: necessarily literally yellow Jackets, but I think she should show
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: up in you know, a streaming show or something like
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a little Prestige, maybe a little spoon Key. And I
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: do think she's a good actress, Like I would like
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: to see her back in that space rather than just
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: like talking about how she like licks machine on Kelly's
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Blood or something, you know, the Machineern Kelly stuff is
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: like so disappointing and honestly, now that I'm thinking about it,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: when I'm thinking about what Megan Fox is susceptible to,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: maybe she would become one of Ryan Murphy's music Like
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: maybe she would have been like an Emma Roberts kind
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: of you know, well, she's not totally. I think she
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: still could like get her get her in the next
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: season of American Horror Story. No, no, no, she deserves
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: better than that. Like Ryan Murphy is not writing the
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: best of his life in the American horror story franchise,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Like no, but I think it's a good place for
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: her to start out because look at look at Sarah Paulson.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I think it would be I think it
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: would be a good chance for people to be like, oh, yeah,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: she actually is a good actress. It would be a
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: good starting vehicle for the next phase of her career. Yes,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and then she makes the next bird Box, like Megan
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Fox would make the next bird Box, you know what
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, like the next viral bad thriller. Yeah, totally,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Like she needs to be in the next thing that
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: is unavoidable, and so everyone in the world remembers who
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: she is. Yeah, eat ship, Michael Bay. This is actually
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: it should be said also that Amanda is another actress
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that was like prestige before it was realized, you know
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: what I mean, like her MOMMYA era, or her like
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's Body era, like very camp but like no one
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: knew she could do something like the dropout, like you
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: know what, well, I mean, if Megan Fox hadn't been
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: black lusted, she might have a very similar career to Amanda's.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe would have leaned a little sexier. I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, you know, not that Amanda hasn't
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: had her own trials and tribulations in Hollywood. You know, Uh,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: she had those photos of her having sex with her
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: uh future husband leaked. And also I think if Olivia
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Rodrigo is going to do this like send up of
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: of Jennifer's body and like reference her visually, like bring
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: her out at a concert, put her in video, she
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: should be in the music video. They kind of look alike,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: like Olivia Rodrigo propping up Megan Fox in a new
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: era and also propping up Paramore and not propping up
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: stealing from Paramore and then making Paramore kind of relevant
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: again to some extent. Um. God, is Olivia Rodrigo just
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: like a cultural suit sayer, like she really like show
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: us what we want and need out of culture? Like God?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's more that she has the
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: right people on her team who know where to pull
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: references from it. It's not like I think Olivia Rodrigo's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: like she's making the mood boards herself. Yeah no, no, no,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: have you listened to the new Paramore song. I'm obsessed
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: with it. It's very um. I mean, I was gonna
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: say different for Paramore, but it sounds a lot like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you know, the last few albums that they released that
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: no one listened to. It's kind of like groovy indie sleeves. Um.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Something I really like that they did is they just
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: revealed the track list to their new album by like
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: putting it in like secret writing on a T shirt
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that was sold, like for merch somewhere, and like it
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: was revealed what the the track list for the album is,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: which I thought was cool. I love Paramore. It does
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: feel like the stars have aligned in this way where
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: we truly are just back where we were twenty years ago.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like we're in the revival of India.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Slee's tumbler Hell is a teenage girl and j Lo
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and bed Affleck are back together again. Yeah, and you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm fresh off of my second puberty, Yeah, as
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: a woman this time, and I'm ready, more ready than
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: ever to embrace Jennifer's body. And Megan Fox. Yeah, Megan
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Fox please. And Amanda Seyford who now has an Emmy. Yes,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: she won the Emmy for for the Dropout. Oh thank god,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: she was so good. I didn't even know that because
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't watch the Emmys. Yeah it was great. Wow.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And you still need to watch Mamma Mia. I mean,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: do I need yes to watch fand Virgins Friends with
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Me frand you need to watch one movie. This Thursday,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: we will be back with a normal episode, our final
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Halloween episode on vampires. Oh my god. It honestly you
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: would think that we would be done with vampires. But no, girls,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: it's just getting started. Oh no, we are going to
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: This is a topic that will live forever. Yea truly,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: so sharpen your steaks. But yeah, Thursday, we will be
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: talking all about all things vampires, mostly about how gay
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: they are, very gay. Thank you so much to producer
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Phoebe for editing these bonus episodes. Thank you to our
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: team at my Heart, and thank you to all of
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: you virgins for listening. Make sure you connect with us,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: follow our fin stuff like a Virgin for twenties sixty
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: nine and uh and then that's it. That's all, Okay,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: that's all.