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What Youth Sports Can Learn from Rugby · UNCOACHED

• Brad: Welcome to Uncoached, a podcast for volunteer coaches and parents figuring out youth sports as we go. Each episode, we keep things simple, five questions that talk about practical insights you can actually use with your youth athletes. Today's guest is Nate Delana, executive director of Rugby North Cal, an organization helping thousands of young athletes experience and compete in the sport of rugby across Northern California. Nate has a unique perspective on how rugby develops young athletes from learning contact and making decisions on the field, to the culture that makes the sport so unique. Today, we're diving into the world of youth rugby, how kids are introduced to the game, and what parents and coaches from other sports might be able to learn from it. So Nate, thanks so much for being here. Do me a favor and give yourself, uh, an introduction Nate Dalena: Yeah, man. I, I'm just super juiced to be on this podcast. Uh, you know, I've been following you for quite some time. Uh, really appreciate everything you're doing to, uh, you know, really feature the volunteer coach. It's really the lifeblood of youth sports, right? And, and someone who's running a youth sports organization like we, you know, we wouldn't be able to do what we do without, you know, our youth coaches. And so for me, I've been in the game for a long time. Played in college, um, then playing, coaching, and ministering ever since. Took over as a, in this role with Rugby NorCal, uh, going on in 2022, so this will be going on my fifth progr- programming calendar as of, uh, September 1st. So yeah, exciting times. And then I've also, uh, I have my own club in my own area as well that I've been coaching for well over a decade. And, um, to be honest, my dad was a coach. My mother owns a dance studio. And so my life has been youth sports, youth activities. Uh, I, I've been around it. I was raised in it. And, um, it's something that I'm doing for my career now too, Brad: No, that's, that's fantastic. So you've got a, a little bit of history there with some, some coaching activities with your parents. Nate Dalena: Yes, yes Brad: I'll tell you what, I'm excited to talk about this. I'm excited about rugby. I, I'll be perfectly straightforward with you. I don't know a lot about the rules, um, which we could probably have a whole other episode on the rules of rugby. Um, but, but man, I've been adjacent to rugby athletes, uh, in my life, and I've always had an admiration for the sport itself. Um, where I went to college, we had a, a good influx of, uh, Samoan culture, and so those are some big people, and they loved rugby. And man, watching those guys play was so much fun, and just the energy and the, you know, the unity that those guys brought. It was something different that I don't know that I've seen too much in my life. I grew up playing hockey. It's the closest thing I can, I can, uh, uh, address to that kind of team environment and that, you know, I got your back type of, uh, stuff that you've got on a team. But I'm, I'm super excited to talk about this, so maybe I'll just, I'll, I'll jump in here and toss a first question to you. Uh, Nate Dalena: before you do that though, I gotta tell you, I've been in this for a long time, and the closest thing I can get to in, in regards to rugby culture is, is hockey culture, right? It's the, it's the closest thing that I could say is, is similar. I think there's obviously some very unique differences there, but, um, you know, what the, what, what you guys do and what hockey players do on the ice is, uh, is incredible. And so yeah, I think, uh, we're like, uh, maybe stepbrothers, stuff like that. Yeah. Brad: I, I Nate Dalena: Close Brad: w- well, we could talk about a lot more, but I think the word that comes to mind is maybe selflessness. Like, I see a lot of, um, not searching for the limelight in both hockey and, and rugby from what I can tell. You don't have the guys that are trying to just outshine the rest of their team. It is very much a team sport. Um, and I, I think that's what makes it so cool. So for parents might ... like me, who didn't really grow up around rugby, what makes rugby different from some of the other major sports, and what do you think kids get from playing it that they might not get that experience, uh, with some of the other sports? Nate Dalena: This is like one of the best questions of all time, and I could talk about this for hours on end, 'cause there's so many things and there's so many different things about rugby that make it, like phenomenal for kids, uh, in and of itself. Uh, I'll try and focus it down on a couple things just from the individual player standpoint, uh, before we get into like kind of like the culture part and all that, which I'm sure we'll get to, which is what really makes the game special. Um, but when it comes to the, when it comes to the game, and, and one message I certainly wanna get out there is like this game is new to everybody, right? And so, and I think a lot of parents and a lot of kids are probably afraid of, of new things, of different things, of things they don't know, right? Uh, but when you come down to it, when you show up and when you start playing, like everyone's new when it comes down to it, right? And, and we want those players to come, and we want those players to be a part of our game and, and to learn it, right? And so we really are, it's, it is an inviting culture, right? And so they're going to be able to learn, and they're going to be able to come in and feel like they are appreciated because we want, you know, players to come and learn. Um, I think really though what they get from playing, and I think, you know, as a parent myself, you know, rugby, it holds everyone to the same standard, right? And I think it's one of the only sports where everyone is held to the same standard, where everyone gets to run with the ball, everyone gets to score, everyone has to play defense, everyone has to tackle, everyone has to be able to do everything, right? And when you get into an environment like that, you really get to learn about yourself. You really get to learn about what you can do, what you struggle with, and then the sport and the coaching gives you the opportunity to achieve and to get better and to try new things. And when-- what's important for me is when kids start to learn that through effort and listening of coaches, like they can start to achieve and they can do new things, that creates a different level of confidence, and it creates a different level of kid outside of the sport. And so I think for me, the biggest thing that you're gonna get from rugby as a player and as a parent of a player, is that you're gonna be putting your kid into a situation where they're going to have to learn and get better, 'cause it's a new thing for everybody on the field. And when they get through that, and they do learn and they do achieve, they will become more confident both on the field and off the field. Brad: Yeah, it's such a-- That's a good answer. Uh, I love that. And I-- You know me, I'm always talking about multi-sport athletes, and Nate Dalena: Ja Brad: if I think about that, that I'm coaching in sports, if they had an opportunity to play rugby, I can tell you, man, what a difference that would make in just the parallel physical opportunities that they might have for any sport. And, and some of the reasons you just laid out there, right? Confidence building and, um, just strength and that team, teamwork that you put in on the rugby i-is just something that would translate over to other sports. So man, I, I wish-- it's a plug, right? Like if you got an opportunity to get your kid in some rugby right now, maybe give it a, give it a shot, right? Don't be so afraid of the physical nature of it, because we'll, we'll talk about that, but it's not Nate Dalena: Ja Brad: bad as it probably looks on the outside. Nate Dalena: Yeah, you know, it really, from our standpoint, right, y- you, you look at it from a lot of different ways. And, and again, it goes back to not a lot of parents knowing about what we do and how we do it, and that's a, that's not a parent problem. Parents are supposed to be, are supposed to, like, ask questions and find the right situations for their kids, and find the right sports for them to play, and find the right, you know, people for them to be around. That's the part of being a parent, right? And that's in, in my opinion, for youth sports, that's the part of the parent's job, right, is to find positive coaching environments in different sports for kids to be a part of. It's very important, right? Now, I couldn't agree more about the multi-sport athlete. I preach that from the mountaintops always. I want, I want multi-sport athletes for as long as humanly possible, and then when the kids get into high school, I hope you can pick a couple sports to play. Brad: Ja Nate Dalena: know if that's really necessary. I don't really know if it's possible in the landscape, but I do think players should be playing sports in the winter and the spring, or the, or the, you know, the fall and the winter and the spring. I think that would be ideal. Um, but at least two, two seasons. You gotta be doing actual competitive games when you get to the high school level. Uh, but yeah, for us, you know, when you're young, being able to get on a rugby field, move your body in different ways a- a- and have the opportunity to do some things that you might not have been able to do in a positive environment creates better athletes, creates better kids, creates better lives. Easy. Brad: sure. And while we're talking about, hey, I didn't grow up, grow up around rugby and trying to figure out if it, if it makes sense or not, I Before I got on with you, I was excited. I, I wanna throw you a little bit of a curve ball and ask you a- about this. But in 2024 in the, in the Olympics, rugby had a moment here in the US, and it was awesome. Nate Dalena: Yeah Brad: you know, you've got A- Alana Maher, who became a huge social, uh, person, uh, out there doing great work to try and talk about the sport itself. But I think people started paying attention a little bit more, and I, I just wonder on your side of things, did you see an influx of interest, um, there in NorCal? Um, you know, what was your response to some of that fun that we had in 2024? Nate Dalena: Alona, man, isn't she great? Isn't she just great what she posts? My gosh, unbelievable. Yeah, really a steward of our game, a steward of, uh, of a lot of positivity. Uh, super, super excited and, you know, that she got what she, um, she is where she is now. Because, you know, what a lot of rugby people know and a lot of people don't know is that, like, she started posting the s- the Olympics before, Brad: Sure. Nate Dalena: making traction. And so she goes to the next one, continues to post, right? And then, boom, huge moment happens, right? We call it the Spiff Arm, Spiff Cedric, right? She, she spiff arms that girl into the ground and then runs it, and then she has to kick the ball. She actually has to make the conversion after with no kickers on the field. She's not the kicker of the team, and she drills it, and then we win bronze. Yeah, the Spiff Arm. You guys, anyone listening, you should look that up. It was an amazing run and, like, just a huge moment for rugby in general. I'm super juiced for 2028 Olympics in LA. It's gonna be awesome. Um, but yeah, so we, in NorCal, we have the most girls playing in the country in regards to our state youth rugby organization, right? Um, and since then we've seen a huge increase, especially at the youth level, and then even at the high school level too, of, of women playing. And one of the things that I love about the sport is that there are no rule changes between the women's game and the men's game. It's the same exact rules. Everyone's held to the same account. We don't make the rules any different or change stuff. Like, we're going out there, we're playing rugby the way that it should be played. We're not making-- we're not changing any rules. We're-- and it's gonna be a blast. And I love when women play. I, I've co- I coach women as well, um, and you know, there's no contact sports for women, right? That are like, that again, that are like rugby, know? So, uh, you know, when you don't get the opportunity to learn how to be physical, learn how to take contact, learn how to hit the ground the pr- uh, the proper way. When a girl learns those things, man, is it a huge paradigm shift in their personality. Uh, g- there's so much more confidence and belief in themselves, which I think is super important nowadays, especially with kinda how social media drives different types of feelings, you know, throughout the years and throughout, you know, throughout youth. And so I'm, I'm a huge proponent, proponent of women's rugby, and I'm really proud of what Rugby NorCal has done. But man, do we have a lot more work to do in getting more women to play as well in our- Brad: I, I love it. I think there's, I think women's sports is having a moment in general, and it's been too long, you know, waiting for that to happen. You've got Caitlin Clark, Clark in basketball, right? Women's basketball is having a movement. S- Nate Dalena: Угу Brad: um, women's rugby. I've got an eight-year-old daughter, so I'm thinking, sitting here thinking, man, I would love actually to have her do this, right? I've been looking for like, to, to have her join, uh, some karate lessons, or I wrestled, I'd love her to come up and wrestle or something like that, you Nate Dalena: Yes Brad: different like that. And, um, I, I think you're, you're hitting the nail on the head when you're talking about the confidence-building aspect o- of doing this, and letting the kids, whether they're boys or girls, realize, "I can do this. I can go out here and, and do a sport like rugby and succeed," and just build that confidence and continue to, to im- im- improve the human being that they're going to be, you know? Nate Dalena: Yeah, and it all comes down to cont- just learning, learning new tech- learning new techniques, executing th- those techniques over a long period of time, which then creates the confidence, right? You know, I think, you know, a lot of, a lot of parents look at the game, they don't know it, they never played it, and so it's like, "What is going on?" You know? Refs are doing different things, you know? Brad: Ja. Nate Dalena: Coaches are saying things. They have no idea what the, what the terminology is, right? And so you look at it, and you look at the sport, and it's like, man, they're... It's just chaos. But in actuality, when you break it down, and this is just in any sport, right? There's, you have to break everything down into pieces, and then once you put all those pieces together and that turns into a technique, and those techniques turn into gameplay, and the gameplay turns into competition, right? Like, all that stuff is just part of learning the sport, learning the game, and, and learning how we do things. And so, yeah, it's, um, it's not as a, it's not a barbaric game. It's actually, there's a lot that's, there's a lot that's going on, uh, in regards to the teaching and the culture and, and how we go about coaching the sport, Brad: Yeah. Uh, I totally, I totally believe it. I, I can, I can see it. Um, I know there's a strategy there. I'm, I'm, I'm one of those people though that's like, man, I could do a lot better at learning the actual, uh, rules and understanding what's going on when. So we can Maybe we'll jump into that later. But let's, l- let's jump back. Like, if I did bring my ... So I've got a 10-year-old son. Let's say I bring him to the first rugby practice, uh, of his life. What's that experience look like, um, at least with, with you guys, and, and how do you introduce kids to things like the contact, the tackling, and all the physical aspect, uh, things of the, of the game, but y- but still keep it kind of age appropriate? Nate Dalena: Yeah, totally. And that's a great question. So we start tackle at the under 10 level right now. Um, if you're, you know, looking at like UH, stuff like that, we do flag rugby, right? And then there's also some, there's also flag rugby, uh Opportunities across the country for 10-year-olds, 12-year-olds, and there's actually a new initiative coming along called T1 Rugby that, um, is coming down from World Rugby, which is the governing body of rugby in the world, right? Obviously. Um, and so that's a great way to get introduced to the game. Ton of fun, no contact, um, a lot of scoring, some defense, and again, like, everyone gets to score, right? So, you know, I was, like, a center when I was a, when I was a play- a football player, so, like, I never touched the ball. And so, um, you know, everyone gets to touch the ball. Easy way to get involved, right? So if you're going to a flag program, you can ex- you're gonna get, you know, s- some quick lessons about rugby, how to pass, how to catch, how to run with the ball, how to score, and then you're gonna get into gameplay, right? And you're gonna be playing, you know, a majority of the time just playing the game and having a bunch of fun. For the tackle ones, for if once you start there, what that's gonna look like is y- you know, usually those cl- those teams and those clubs are also really focused on fun at the beginning, right? Kind of teaching about gameplay, teaching about how things happen. We do a lot of games. Game drill game is a, is, is a word and a vernacular that we always use and, and when it comes to our coaches. Um, because kids learn in games, kids have more fun in games, right? So we, we start game, drill game, right? So we'll, we'll take a game that's easy to, you know, we'll make some rules. We'll go down, we'll get into some drills that help with the game, and then we'll go back to the game, and hopefully they'll get better, right? Um, but introducing contact, and a lot of people, you know, it's like, "Hey, how do you introduce a kid to tackle?" You actually don't get them tackling first, right? The first thing you do is you get them to learn how to hit the ground first, right? And there's a specific way that you need to hit the ground, right? You're not, y- you know, there's a, you know, being able to, you know, hold your head up off the ground, having the strength to do that, right? These are all things we evaluate. Um, you know, I always say butt, back, ball, right? So your butt hits, then your back, and then you place the ball, right? Which is a, a part of the jackknife, um, or, or taco, Brad: Yeah Nate Dalena: technique that we teach. 'Cause, you know, it's just a different type of way. You have to learn how to hit the ground before you learn how to tackle, right? And I think that's super important because I, I don't think any other sport teaches that. And so when your kid plays rugby, learns how to hit the ground, they take that into all their other sports, right? In a safe way. 'Cause you're gonna hit the ground in every sport that you play, so that's a good thing. That's one really good takeaway. But after that, the way that we teach tackling is very, very specific, and as a wrestler, you're gonna know this, okay? We teach it as, like, you would learn a blast double, okay? And so it's not a, it's not a football tackle, right? And it is certainly not what football tackling was 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago where you're putting your head right in the middle of people's chests, right? We don't do that. You can't do that, right? The, the safety in our game is not in the padding that we wear. The safety in our game is the, is the techniques that we teach. Yep. And so, you know, the, what a majority of people teach, uh, you know, the vernacular's gonna change kinda everywhere where you go, right? But it's foot in the hoop, cheek to cheek, wrap and drive, right? So y- you know, your first step is getting your foot in between the hoop, basically in between the player's feet, right? That you're tackling, the ball carrier's feet. Second is cheek to cheek, face cheek to butt cheek, right? So that gets your head on the outside of the tackle instead of your head being on the inside or head across, right? So you're taking your head out of the tackle, good shoulder contact, and being cheek to butt cheek makes you low as well, right? Because we want low tackles, right? Which, pad level stuff, right? And then wrap and drive. Wrap your arms, drive your feet, squeeze, take them to the ground. Right? Ball carrier knows how to hit the ground. They hit the ground properly. Tackler rolls away, gets back up, and we're ready to go again. Rugby's a non-stop sport, so we're, we're constantly going all the time. So when it comes down to it, though, the wrestlers, it's a blast double. That's how we teach our, that's how we teach our, uh, our tackle technique. Yeah Brad: you know, you're probably-- you've probably had this conversation, I, I have no doubt, but you've got a parent that says, "Man, I'm scared. That contact seems it seems scary," right, as, as a parent. Nate Dalena: Yeah Brad: Um, what's your, what's your rebuttal against folks like that that come out and say, "Man, I, I'm interested in rugby, but I'm really kind of scared about the contact"? What, what do you tell those people? Nate Dalena: I mean, I think, you know, there's gonna be a lot of things that you're afraid of in any sport, right? Or any martial art, right? Or any- or anything, you know? Um, and I think, you know, obviously, like, each kid is gonna be different at the same time, too. I think one thing that allows rugby to be different than everybody is, like, it doesn't really matter your size or your shape, if you're fast or you're big, or you're, you know, what your, what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. There's spots on the field for everybody, right? the All Blacks are gonna be playing New Ze- uh, they're gonna be playing South Africa, and we've got guys on the field that are 5'4", and we've got guys on the field that are 6'7", right? And they all have different roles and responsibilities, and they're all able to play. Brad: Right Nate Dalena: so the, the inclusion part and being able to play, right, no matter your size, is a big thing. In regards to the fear of tackling, yeah, you're afraid of anything that you don't know how to do, right? And so, like, again, it goes back to, you know, there is a system and a strategy in the way that we teach rugby, the way that we teach the contact, the way that we teach protection, right? And again, it's all in our te- our technique and not in the, you know, the padding that we're wearing. And so, you know, it's up to, you know, the player to listen to the coaches, learn the proper techniques, and then execute those techniques. And, you know, you're really... We- we're putting kids in situations that make sense. We have to put kids in situations that make sense when it comes down to it. And so, you know, safety is really our number one priority. And when you're getting in that first day, and when we start getting into contact, like, one of the things, like, we start on our knees when we're tackling, right? We start, you know, we start in static positions with, with walking, right? And so we're teaching a lot of different types of techniques in a, in a very predetermined way, and in a very slow and established way that allows kids to understand it before we get into, you know, the full speed stuff. But I'll be honest, man, when you get to the 10s and 12s, at those levels, you know, you, you watch rugby on YouTube, right? And everyone always goes to, like, biggest rugby hits. You know what I mean? And it's like, like, these are adults. These are highly, highly trained adults that can move very quickly, that are executing techniques at a very high rate of speed, right? That's why those, those hits and those tackles look like that. And to be honest with you, not all the tackles really even look like that. Those are just really the featured ones, right? A lot of them is, like, your blast level, your blast double, take down, get back up, go again, um, type of technique. At the 10s and the 12s, man, they're not running fast enough, right? They're, they're, they don't have testosterone or whatever, you know, or, you know, running through their bodies, right? And so, like, while obviously there is contact in our sport, certainly, at the 10s and the 12s levels, man, we're, you know, the, the, the velocity usually isn't there Brad: Right. Nate Dalena: at the time. You know what I mean? Brad: and, and, Nate Dalena: yeah. Go ahead. Brad: you're, you're teaching the, the right technique, so it's almost like that happens in slow motion, right? You don't... It, it's kind of rare, I think, that you get that, like, two rams running into each other and, and knocking heads type of thing. Nate Dalena: Yeah, and, and even if they were, if, you know, the thing is, is like, uh, like high tackles are penalties in our game, right? And so like any tackle above the sternum, it's, it's actually the, the, the wording now in the rule is below the sternum. Those are penalties. And so like we, we- you can't, you can't tackle high in our game. Brad: controlled Nate Dalena: you, you learn you, you lose the ball. You know what I mean? Brad: course. A- Nate Dalena: yeah Brad: and then besides the physical nature, um, think in other sports there's a tendency for coaches to over-coach a bit. They play a little bit, uh, you know, I call it joystick coaching, where they're just kind of trying to move the pieces around and think for the athlete, which I always talk against, 'cause I want players to play. I want them to make mistakes. But rugby's different, um, because i- it's, it seems like a larger field of play, and it's a lot more fast-paced. There's not enough time for a coach to be, you know, yelling out plays or telling players where they can go, at least from, from what I've seen. And so what's always interested me about rugby is, is how much that decision-making seems to happen on the field without that coach directing everything. So how do you think-- how does that change the way you train the players and kind of force them to have that independence in their, in their decision-making? Nate Dalena: Yeah, and like the most frustrating part from going to being a player to a coach in, especially in rugby, is that once the game starts, you got like nothing that you can do. You know what I mean? So like, and as a, as an athlete, like you look at it and it's like you wanna be able to do something, but really you can't because like, it, when it comes to the sport, it's a constant sport, right, where the decisions need to be made by the players. And so going back to what we were talking about practicing, right? W- in our practices and in the games that we have at our practices, we're always trying to create scenarios where the decisions need to be made, right? You know, uh, two-on-ones, when the pass needs to be made, why it needs to be made that way. And then obviously the, the players with some experience are gonna be the ones that are out there, you know, kind of directing where the player, where the other players need to go, Brad: Ja Nate Dalena: what, you know, plays. We call them patterns in rugby, and what pattern we're running, right? Uh, but really all that comes in practice and, you know, hey, these are the decisions that we're trying to influence, right? And when these situations come, you have to recognize it, and that's what you do, right? Um, now when, like at the younger age groups, obviously there's, you know, you, you try and give everyone more defined roles, right? So that they can, you know, have a little bit of a grasp of something. But as they grow older, and as they increase, you know, and, and get more experience in the game, you know, you really are giving really the kids and, and the players the power to, to run the sport and run the games like they need to run. And if, if you haven't done that, then you're really not being a, you know, you're really not doing what you need to do to put the players in the proper position to, to be suc- to, to succeed. Again, if you watch the game, uh, the South Africa versus New Zealand game this weekend, both of the coaches are in the press box with headsets on. They're not on the field, right? And so, uh, you know, you look at rugby in that way, like there's not much you can do once the game starts. So you gotta prepare before, Brad: Yeah. And so. two things that stand out in my mind just because of, of that opportunity is, is you're creating that independent thought and that opportunity for those youth athletes. But man, Nate Dalena: Ja Brad: a great leadership opportunity for those kids that are on the field. And I'm sure at any point in the, in the game, there's somebody else that's trying to help, uh, the team, right? You're, you're creating a, a team of leaders is what you've done, and I think that's just, uh, you know, one of the fan- most fantastic secondary things that you're probably doing in the game of rugby with the youth athletes. Nate Dalena: Totally. And, and one of my favorite things, and a little anecdote from our sport. So one of our main rules is that coaches can't talk to the referee, parents can't talk to the referee. The only person that, yeah, the only person that can talk to the referee is the captain. And so, like, when you tell a 10-year-old, like, "Hey, I need you to go say this to the ref," like, and the 10 goes and talks to the ref, then, like, it's like, or the 10-year-old goes and talks to... It's like there's a whole different level of respect and leadership and really, like, ownership of who you are and what you're doing when, um, when you play the sport. It's pretty cool, I think. That's for sure Brad: I wish, I mean, we should just adopt that for every sport. I think that, that's fantastic. How many, how many issues would that save with, with umpiring or refereeing, um, parents being out of control, all kinds of stuff. So that's Nate Dalena: Yeah. Brad: I love it Nate Dalena: Imagine a, uh, imagine a baseball umpire getting yelled at for balls and strikes, and he calls over, he calls over the team captain of the other team and goes, "Hey, I need you to go tell the parents that, uh, they need to calm down Brad: Yeah Nate Dalena: a little bit." Brad: I Nate Dalena: Yeah. Brad: that would get their Nate Dalena: then a, 10-year-old kid, and then a 10-year-old kid would go to the fans and say, "Hey, we need to, we need to relax." Like that, that level of leadership, that level of, of responsibility to the sport, um, that integrity to the sport is, is stuff that we're promoting constantly, and it's what the game has done for eternity, to be honest with you, Brad: Yeah. Nate Dalena: so Brad: it's so cool. And I think it, it's unfortunate that rugby isn't, um, one of the larger sports here in the US, but you guys have done such a good job in Northern California. You've got a Nate Dalena: Mhm. Brad: geography, um, Nate Dalena: Mhm. Brad: out a great number of, of members of, of the clubs that are in your area there. But I think you're probably still trying to c- carve out some, some competition, and make sure that that competition is, is probably fair for, for the different divisions and age groups that you got. Um, how do you find the right competition for kids without falling into that trap of making it, like, the best team or the highest division level, things like that? Nate Dalena: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, when it comes down to it, and I'll just be really transparent on this one, like for U10s and U12s, like we've never held a, like a championship, right? And we like, we rarely, we don't, we don't track season, like season scores and totals and everything. We'll, we compete on game day. We'll compete on Saturdays for sure, right? And you keep score on Saturdays, that's great, right? But after that Saturday it's, that's it, right? Um, our, our end of season event for the U10s and the U12 level is considered a jam, a jamboree, right? So you play three, four games, right? You have a really quality rugby day, um, and that's it, you know? Um, and so like when you say competition, right, like I, I mean, we're really more concerned about the 10s and the 12s and those kids and the younger guys learning proper technique, having a positive rugby day, everyone playing safely and having fun, and then, you know, going home and the parents are saying what a great time they had, the kids are saying what a great time they had, no matter what the scores may be, right? Brad: Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome Nate Dalena: now that doesn't mean we don't have like, like we definitely have light divisions and open divisions, and we're very c- you know, we're very, you know, calculated on where, you know, where kids are playing, what they're doing and, and we're certainly involved in that, I would say, um, to make sure that, you know, everything is fair, right, on the, on those game days. But yeah, when it comes down to like just in general, 30,000 foot view, Rugby NorCal at the U10s and U12 level, like we're really more focused on development and making sure that the kids have a positive experience, everybody, right? Parents, coaches, refs, players, rather than figuring out who the best U10 or U12 team is, right? Really where we wanna compete and where Rugby NorCal really wants to compete is at, you know, the high school level, and certainly the varsity high school level. We have, in my opinion, and of course I am, uh, the most biased person in the room on this one, we've got the best athletes and the best kids, uh, in the country that play, right? And we want our competitions and our leagues at the, at the high school varsity level to be very, um, to be very robust and, uh, and very competitive. So, um, that's really our main goal. Um, in regards to like your 12s and your Uf- or your U14s, your middle school divisions, right? We've got a couple different types of divisions. We've got light divisions. We've got open divisions. We've got competitive divisions. We offer a wide variety of competition structures for clubs to decide what they wanna do and fit in where they wanna fit in, and then they, that's what they do. They go execute on what they do. We have some of, if not the best clubs in the country all in a geograph- in a geographically like narrow area. And so like our clubs and the relationships they have with each other, uh, is something that really helps drive what our Saturdays look like, and it's really one of the reasons why Rugby NorCal is one of the leaders of youth rugby in the country, is just we have a very, uh, dense population of rugby enthusiasts that all want to give to the game and that all also have good relationships with, with each other. Brad: Yeah. Man, that's, it's cool, and I'm sitting here thinking, I'm still trying to figure out the landscape of what you got there, 'cause it does sound... And I'm glad you went into that, 'cause you, it does sound like there's different clubs that you could belong to. Nate Dalena: Yes Brad: a schedule, you do play, but I hear you saying, like, you're not necessarily keeping track of best s- um, best records, and you're not playing for some type of end of season trophy and things like that. It's more, like, very much focused on development and fun and, uh, do I have that right? Like, the, the, Nate Dalena: Yeah, correct. Brad: Well, Nate Dalena: and I don't... Brad: you can tell. It's hard for me to even comprehend that, Nate Dalena: Yeah Brad: man, I'm, I'm in this environment where we've got high competitive stuff for baseball, soccer, you know, basketball, and I wish they were set up like that. I think you guys have the right way of doing things, right? So please don't ever change. C- don't, don't Nate Dalena: Yeah Brad: let the big business come in and, and try to change things, 'cause you guys are doing great. Nate Dalena: I think we, you know, we're, you know, we're blessed in a w- we certainly have a long way to go, and we w- we wanna grow. We've got some amazing opportunities coming up. The Rugby World Cup is, is coming to the United States in 2031 for the men's, in 2033 for the women's. Um, and then obviously 2028 Olympics with 7s going to be there again. Like, these are all, like, once in a lifetime opportunities. I couldn't be more happy with where I am now and where we're going, right? Um, so we've got a lot of growth to go, but you know, currently with where we're at and the size that we are, it kind of allows us to be really agile in, in what we wanna do and how we wanna structure our programming, right? And so, uh, really with us, like we're, we're firm believers that we do... I don't wanna say we're not competing, right? We're definitely competing on Saturday. Brad: sure. Nate Dalena: definitely playing, like, and it's important, right? But the, you know, when it comes down to it, like the, the season-long stuff and the year-round stuff, that's just stuff we don't do, right? You know, our season in Northern California, everyone usually starts practicing in December, and then we play January, February, March, right? We'll end the first or second weekend of March usually every year, um, because everyone goes and plays baseball, which is great. We want everyone to go play baseball. We want everyone to play football. We want everyone to play multiple sports, right? Like that's, that's a huge thing. Um, and then we do a little bit of summer 7s as well, which is like a four to six week program. Um, but then, you know, after that, we're just, you know, doing what we can to, you know, spread the word and get going on it. So yeah, I'm pretty, I'm, I'm juiced with it. I like the way that we're structured. But then when we get into high school, like those boys get after it, But by that time they should love it. By that time, if, if we do the right things at eights, tens, twelves in middle school, by the time they get to high school, the boys and the girls wanna go, and we wanna provide that, you know? Brad: Yeah, you, you are, you're preaching to the choir. Like, I, I love the, the long-term development focus that you guys have because I, you know, I'm a strong believer in that same thing that, hey, let's develop these kids when they're in grade school so that by the time they have an opportunity to really, really compete when it's a little bit more competitive and, and let's say higher stakes, high school, college, you know, they're, they're built for that and they're ready to go. And like you said, they've got a love for the game and they haven't burnt out because you're introducing seasons. Like, let's make seasons great again, you know? Like, we, we need this to happen, right? We need seasons, Nate Dalena: make seasons great again. I love that. And hey, how about like some family time? Brad: Yeah, Nate Dalena: How about like ... You know what I mean? Brad: Yeah Nate Dalena: about like, you know, how about family time? How about ... And then, you know, do some things here, do some things there. Yeah, I, I, I can go on about that for a while too. But, um, yeah man, like we ... I, as a coach, I'd much rather have a kid who like by the time they're 15, 16, 17 are like living and dying with the sport and love the sport and willing to do everything that it takes to be good at the sport, rather than someone who's had, you know, who's playing year round, who has a ton of success when they're young and then maybe doesn't really care as much, right? I want those, I want dudes and I want, and I want, you know, women that wanna get after it and really wanna get, you know, going when, when it matters, right? Which is when they get older, right? So they start to develop more. And so yeah, we're really trying to drive that I think Brad: That's great. Um, and I know we talked a little bit about the physicality, um, and I- I'm not gonna go completely back there, but because of the reputation of it being physical in the field, uh, I think it's driven this really strong culture of respect and sportsmanship between the athletes. Um, and, and again, I, I'll liken it, just my experience to hockey, because man, you can battle on the ice against guys, hit them, maybe even, you know, getting, getting in a little scrum, get in a fight. Afterwards you could be shaking hands and, you understand the work that it's taken to get there, I guess, is what I'm saying, and it Nate Dalena: Да Brad: respect that you have between the athletes. So maybe you touch on that from a rugby perspective. Like, where does that culture come from, and how do you intentionally teach it to young players? Maybe it's not intentional. Maybe they just learn it from playing the game itself. But, but maybe talk to that from rugby side. Nate Dalena: Yeah, and a couple, couple things to note on this, you know, and, and certainly there's a, you know, there's gonna be contact, there's gonna be physicality when you get to tackle rugby. Like, it is what it is, right? It is a contact sport. It's not a collision sport, which would I would consider football. It's not a combat sport, which is what I'd consider your MMA stuff. It is a, but it is a contact sport, right? Um, and so, uh, but if you look at what rugby was like in the '70s and '80s and '90s and you look like it, like at what it is today, they're completely different sports. Like, it's just like if you look at football back in the '60s, '70s and '80s and you look at it now, like, they're completely different now, right? And there's a lot more things that we're doing that are, that have been implemented over the years to, to help with the safety aspect. Uh, but when it comes down to it, you're right in that everyone's trying to play a game that's all really centered around respect, like, like referees, right, coaches, opponents, right? The game itself, right? We, you know, we hold integrity and respect at, at like, you know, our highest honor, I would say. And so, you know, the kids are learning that at practice. The kids are learning, you know, they learn that during the game, and then one of the things, just to go back to, you know, leadership roles and being able to do things, after every game we do, uh, player of the match, right? And so, um, we all get together at the center of the field. The parents come onto the field as well. Um, both teams will mix together and, like, take a knee. Um, each coach will then say, "Hey, you know, I'm Nate Delana, you know, coach of blah, blah, blah. Um, really appreciate the opponents that we played today. You know, I'd like to invite my captains up to nominate the player of the match." And so the captain of the forward, captain of the backs will stand up. They'll talk a little bit about the game. They'll introduce themselves, tell what position they are, and then they will select a player of the match from the opposing team, right? And we do that 10s, 12s, 14s, 16s, 19s, right? JV, varsity. Everyone does that, right? And that creates a, an example and different level of respect than what you get from other sports in just a handshake line, Brad: Ja Nate Dalena: Um, and then after that, and I'm sure people who saw rugby in college are, are aware of the socials. I gotta say that that's, that's college life, not youth life. Right. Brad: sure Nate Dalena: so, um, we have a social after every event, right, where, uh, the host team will feed the opposing team, maybe, you know, the opposing team's parents sometimes too if they have a little bit of extra. Um, but so then all the kids are eating together, and all the players are eating together, you know, building friendships, building relationships because, you know, our game is so... You know, our game is still small, right? And so a lot of these kids, they end up being teammates later on on your, you know, on whatever team you're playing for, right? On your high performance teams, on your, your area teams, you know, or, you know, maybe even, you know, playing against your own team. You know, we share players a lot. You know, we, we make sure that we get out there, and we make sure the games are even, and the games are fun. And so, you know, you're playing against your team, you're playing with your team. It's, it's one big community here, uh, that we're, that we drive. It's not necessarily us versus them. It's us together having a positive day. Brad: Yeah. Man, what a culture. I, I Nate Dalena: Ja Brad: love it, man. It, it, it's gotta be one of the best models for what we should strive for in youth sports. Um, very cool, man. Um, Nate Dalena: I think so Brad: I'm gonna steal your ... I'm gonna steal the ... I love the, um, uh, the captain, uh, stuff that you do with your f- you know, your forwards and your backs. I'm gonna take that to my soccer team and have an offensive and defensive captain and make them do the same thing, right? I, I absolutely love that. I'm gonna ... I'm totally gonna steal that from you guys. So thanks Nate Dalena: Yeah. No, please. It's a whole different... I mean, it's a whole different level when a kid, you know, when, you know, when your captains stand up there or when a coach talks to the opponents and your, you know, and your kids all together, right? The parents are all around there, you know, together as well, right? And then the kids have to get up and, you know, we give them the process, right? Introduce yourselves. How long have you been playing? You know, what position do you play? Talk about the game. Nominate your player of the match. Shake their hand. You know, if you got a challenge coin, you can give them the, the player of the match challenge coin. Some clubs do that, right? Um, you can also just give them a handshake too, right? And then, you know, everyone claps, right? And so it's good. It's just different. Man, it's different, and it's really what makes it special, so. Brad: such a, such a great, great thing that you guys are doing in youth sports. Nate Dalena: Thanks, man Brad: So if you had a, if you had a parent who has a kid who loves a different sport, no matter what it is, and they never considered rugby, Nate Dalena: Mm-hmm. Brad: what's your pitch? I'm putting you on the spot here. Pitch, pitch me. Tell me, give me, give me your pitch on how to get somebody back into rugby here. Nate Dalena: Yeah, you know, I go back to my sales days, man. I'll start asking you questions when it comes down to it, you know? What other sports do you play? Why do you only play one sport? Why, what draws there, right? You know, but when it comes down to it, e- everything that I would say centers around you need to have multisport athlete, right, when they're young. You have to. Like I, I... You have to be a multisport athlete. It, it helps with injury rates, it helps with, uh, confidence, it helps with athletic ability later on. You're moving your body in different ways, right? Um, and then really, but what, what I would say in regards to rugby is the, the level of person that you're going to get after the kid plays. My favorite thing about coaching, to be honest with you, is, you know, when I get a kid that comes in, right, um, has never played the game before, starts to get into it, starts to play games, starts to build relationships, starts to understand really what we're doing. They go off, they do a whole nother thing for a year. They come back the next season, and they're walking around different, man. They walk around with their chest. They're out there. They're saying what's up. They're shaking someone's hand the right way. They're looking at the, you know, they're looking at the coaches in their eyes, right? They get on the rugby field, and they're ready to go, and they're excited, right? And that's because it's creating confidence in kids and doing new and different things, right? And so for me, you know, if you're interested in, you know, a contact sport, if you wanna learn proper and safe tackle technique, if you want your kid to be a respectful, confident and, you know, kid with integrity, you should give rugby a try. Um, and if you don't wanna do the contact, then go find some flag or some T1 rugby, 'cause you're gonna get the same thing there too. It's a blast. Brad: Yep, and I'm, I'm gonna help your pitch and just echo what you said is if your kid's between eight and say 13, they don't have to decide what their one sport is, right? Leave the door open for other stuff, and I think you'll be amazed at the outcome that is possible by trying different things. It's fa- it's a fantastic opportunity Nate Dalena: Everyone says you gotta specialize early or you're gonna get left behind. I, this year had a kid who never played football, started playing his junior year, and now he's the starting D tackle for his varsity team. Like, dude, like if you are, if you're being active and you're playing and you're working hard, uh, you can catch up and you can figure it out, right? I'm, I'm telling you. It's just trusting the process and trusting the human body, Brad: Yeah. I Nate Dalena: So Brad: and not to knock, you know, sports in general, but these are games, right? Like, you're, you're, you're tossing a ball around, you're hitting a ball with a stick. This isn't brain surgery. So yeah, you can be a late bloomer and come in and have, have a lot of success, but don't be afraid to try, right? Like, get out there and don't be afraid to try things Nate Dalena: Yeah, totally. And, and you know, man, when you get into high school, like you're going to have to do a lot more work. You're going to have to like grind, you know? And so like, and if you, and if I've got a kid who loves what they're doing, who loves the sport or loves these multiple sports, and they're willing to do the grind, like what else do you want, man? That's the best, you know? They found a purpose. Like I'm in, you know, I'm ready to go. Brad: sure. Absolutely Nate Dalena: play as many sports as you can. Hopefully rugby's one of them. We actually get... I'll tell you this, um, we're getting a lot more parents now, uh, who want rugby, want the kids to play rugby first before they get into football, so they learn proper tackle technique. We're getting a ton of that at the UA, at, at the UA, U10 level now. Um, just because the word's kinda getting around about near, near foot, near shoulder, how to make proper tackles. Um, and then obviously, you know, all the culture part around it as well. And so I'm not saying that if you haven't played football already to, to, you know, that you're, that you're a lost cause. Definitely get back in there. You're gonna be much more physical after playing a year of rugby. You're gonna be much more comfortable in contact. But, um, yeah, a lot of kids starting to play rugby first before they get into football, and they get on the football field and they're like bosses already, you Brad: they're, Nate Dalena: they're, comf- they're comf- 'cause they're comfortable with the, with the hardest part, which is contact. Brad: Yeah。 Nate Dalena: know what I mean? So you just gotta learn, you just gotta learn how to, how to handle it, and once you learn how to handle it, you're gravy, man Brad: Yeah, you're gonna wind up getting some of those kids that are using that. They think they're using it as a stepping stone to get to football, but they're gonna wind up staying with rugby because of, of the culture and the other things that you guys are building. I have no doubt Nate Dalena: Yeah, for sure. We get a lot, I mean, we got a, we got a ton of football rugby kids. We got... You know, I'll tell you this, you know who really loves the sport are water polo kids. Oh, water polo guys love rugby. Different seasons, right? Winter or fall and spring, and those dudes just, and, well, and, and the women too, just love the contact. Oh my gosh, love the physicality. I, I, you know, I was never a water polo guy, but I guess under the water they're doing some crazy stuff. So yeah, water polo players love rugby. It's wild Brad: that's where the, uh, the Olympics come back, right? You don't, you don't really get to see water polo very much, but man, it is physical, and I c- Nate Dalena: Ja Brad: see that too from an endurance perspective, the, the amount of running that you're doing on a rugby field and the endurance necessary. I'm sure it translates. That's, that's really cool Nate Dalena: Totally. Big engines. They got a lot of big engines, a lot of VO2 max. So yeah Brad: Well, Nate, uh, you know, I, I like to keep it to our, our five questions, uh, and I slipped in a couple of extras. I, I thank you so much for sharing this information. I mean, I feel like I've learned a lot more about the rugby game itself, the rugby culture. Um, I'm pretty pumped up. Like, I gotta find out where I can watch this match, uh, coming up here. I gotta find out where I can get involved a little bit more in the sport of rugby. So thanks so much for taking time. I, I really appreciate it. Uh, I would encourage everybody to find out more about NorCal Rugby and, and your organization and learn some. Uh, do me a favor and just help me figure out where we can send people Nate Dalena: Yeah, man. So if, you know, depending on where you're at in the world, there's rugby in nearly every state, like, for sure, right? Um, you can look up usayouthandhighschoolrugby.com. Um, that's like our, our, our community organization that runs everything across the country, right? And then, um, for us it's rugbynorcal.org, and you can always reach out to, uh, any of the clubs in Northern California as well. There, we've got about 45, right? And we've got a lot of kids playing. Uh, practices usually start in December. Youth season's December, January, February, March. High school club season is, uh, March, April, May. Um, and anyone can play, right? Doesn't matter how big, how small, how short, how tall, right? Where you're, you're gonna be able to find a spot on the field. And if you wanna watch the game this weekend, there's an app called RugbyPass. Rugby's free for everybody in the United States. They're trying to build as much awareness around it before the 2031 and 2033 Rugby World Cups. And so, um, yeah, that's, uh... Download the RugbyPass app and you can watch any of the games that you want. And, uh, maybe some of the women or men that, uh, find this today, some of the high school seniors, maybe they're playing in the 2031 or 2033 World Cups. We'll see Brad: Heck yeah, I hope so. Um, that's awesome, Nate. Thanks so much Nate Dalena: No problem, man. You have a good one. Thanks again for all you do Brad: If this episode helped you, share it with another coach or parent who's figuring it out, too. You can find Uncoached and this episode wherever you listen to podcasts. You can watch the episode on YouTube, and make sure to follow The Coaching Dad on Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook. We'll see you next time on Uncoached