Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / From Hustle to Healing: Rewriting the Plan You Outgrew With Cameron Rogers

Transcript

From Hustle to Healing: Rewriting the Plan You Outgrew With Cameron Rogers · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And who says?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: So? Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: time to question everything.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, my friends.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I hope you're having a beautiful day and a beautiful week.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I looked at the calendar today and I realized we
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: artificially two weeks away from twenty twenty six. I don't
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: know how that happened, because I remember it being January
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. But here we are, and you know
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: what that means. My annual New Year's episode is going
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to air next week. It is the only solo episode
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that I do throughout the year usually, and I talk
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: about kind of a recap.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Of my year, what goals, I hit, what I didn't
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: personally professionally, it's probably you know.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I deep dive, I cry, I laugh, and I talk
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: you through the New year transformation worksheet that I debuted
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: last year. You guys loved it. I got, you know,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: thousands of downloads. This was one of the most popular
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: episodes last year, so I'm updating it. I updated the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: worksheet with some new questions that I thought about and
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: some new tools that I learned. This year, I started
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: working with a life coach, like a year and a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: half ago, or a career coach really, and some of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the tools I've learned that worked for me. Some I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: didn't love and I threw out, but some that worked
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: for me. I added to this worksheet, so it's all updated.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: You're going to be able to download it in like
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I'll put the link in the show notes, but just
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: a heads up that that is coming your way. I'm
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: really really excited. I'm going to record the episode this
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: weekend when I'm alone and have time to just like
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: sit in all my feelings and really do a deep dive,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and then it'll air next week, so you'll have time
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to download the worksheet and fill it all all out
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: before the new year. Okay, let's get into today's episode.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: So we spend so much time building versions of ourselves
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: that work. The version that gets taken seriously the version
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: that doesn't ask for too much, the version that just
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: keeps everything moving. And then one day sometimes that version
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: stops working. It did for me in about twenty eighteen.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And this episode is about what happens when that person
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: or that persona that you created to help you succeed
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: starts to cost you your peace, when that ambition turns
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: into anxiety, and when control turns into exhaustion. Maybe your
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: life got bigger, marriage, motherhood, responsibility, and you realize you
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: can't white knuckle your way through it anymore.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Mine was different.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: It actually had to get smaller before it could get bigger.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: But our guest today, Cameron Rodgers, knows about that shift.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So intimately, she left a high powered career in finance
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: to launch The Freckled Foodie back in the day. Her
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: platform has evolved since then, and she really blew up
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: during COVID because she was talking about postpartum in a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: real way.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: One of the many, many things that I love about
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Cam is she doesn't do polished or like a polished
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: version of honesty. She does the real version, the kind
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that admits I'm anxious, I'm trying, I'm evolving, I don't
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: have the answer I'm scared.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: I thought I was going to love being pregnant, and
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: it rocked me, and postpartum rocked me. I struggled with
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: post pardon anxiety and depression, and that was when I
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: gained I think another download of my community because I
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: was so brutally honest about my experience.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: We're going to get into all of that today. We
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: talk about anxiety. We talk about some of her feelings
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: with postpartum and why she was so honest. We talk
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: about motherhood and how it cracked her open in ways
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: she didn't really consent to, talk about her therapy and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: EMDR and the pressure women carry to be everything and
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: then somehow also be chill. And we get into partnership
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and what it really means to have someone who shows up,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and why so many women are doing.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: The work of two adults.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I really really like hearing Cam talk about partnership. So
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the big question that we're circling today is how do
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: you become more yourself as.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You grow and your life gets bigger.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Not letting fear, anxiety and other people's expectations run the show.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: It's time to question everything with Cameron Rogers. Cam Hi,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be with you.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: This is the best day.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: It's been a really long time coming. Your aunt has
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: been a career changing person in my life. And years
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: ago when you were starting your Instagram social media journey,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: she said, you have to check out my niece. And
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: at the time, you were doing something called Freckled Foodie. Yes, yep,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: that was my handle. Why did you name your business
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: off of that feature?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: And what's your relationship with freckles?
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Like, okay, well, you know, I actually feel I should
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: change my LLC name because it is Freckled Foodie.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: You can never change it. I don't think I can either.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: But the other day I was doing something with my
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: insurance and I had to get a COI for something
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: because I got an office space, and I said Freckled
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Foodie and the woman goes, oh, that's so cute. Do
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: you have a restaurant?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And I was like, how do I explain this?
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: So the origin of the name was because I was
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: at JP Morgan. I was doing sales and trading, so
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: I was living a completely different life. And it was
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: around the birth era of the wellness influencer and food
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: porn accounts.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: They were both kind of coming up at the same time.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And I was going through a bunch of digestive health issues,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: and I was cooking all this food for myself, and
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: I was meal prepping like a maniac because I was
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: working these crazy hours. So I would bring breakfast and
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: lunch to the office and then I would get home
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: and I would eat the dinner I prepped, and I
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: would text my friends photos.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I don't think they cared. You're
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a sharer though, yeah, like you do not want to
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: be in a group chat with me.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I guess they did care because they were asking for
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: the recipe and I said, oh, I just kind of
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: made it up. And I actually remember the night because
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: it was my little sister's birthday and I came home.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: I think she had a party, and I was drunk
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and I.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Was laying in bed. I was like, I'm going to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: start a food Instagram. Why not. I have all these pictures,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I'm prepping all these foods. Let's try.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: And I started thinking what would it be? And I'm
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: covered in freckles. I have been my entire life. I
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: mean I wasn't born with them. People get very confused,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: but like, since I was a very young child, I've
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: been covered in them, like face cover, everywhere covered, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: it was my identifier and then the food. And my
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: biggest thing was I didn't want my face or my
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: name on it. I didn't want anyone to.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Know it was me. But why what was the feeling underneath.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: That embarrassment, judgment and the fact that I had a
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: really big girl job and I.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Didn't want anyone in that career.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I was very young, I was youngest on my desk,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: and I had this great career path ahead of me,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: and at that time had just gotten some really big
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: clients that were like a pretty big deal, and I
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: think people were very questioning of me having them, and
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: I didn't want them to be.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Like this girl's on Instagram posting, what is she taking
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: me seriously? Because I don't take her seriously. I felt
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I had to prove myself.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: So I think maybe I put one photo of myself,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: but you didn't know that it was me, And I
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: think it was three months went by were the only
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: people I told were my little sister and my husband,
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: then boyfriend, and then I remember we were sitting at
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: the beach and I had all these people over and
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: my friend turns to me and goes are you this
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: freckled foody girl on Instagram, and I.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Was like, Dianna, how did you find that she's like?
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: It came up as a suggestion because I think maybe
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: it was when Instagram added the whole like phone number
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: contact thing and she's like. Then I started to realize
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I recognized the background of the pictures and whatever. So
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: then I started telling people, and then it kind of
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: flipped where I told everyone I made these stickers. I
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: was posting them all over like mirrors and bars at
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: the shore or around New York City or in bathroom stalls,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: like vandalizing, and I loved it. Again, though it wasn't
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: my face. It was all food focused because I was
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: still at JP. Everything has very much shifted now eight
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: years later, but that was the origin of freckled fooding,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: and I do love that identity as a version of me.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like this alter ego, not that she's
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: a different person, but I did and I still do love.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: When I meet my community members, many people will reference
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: me as freckled foody, and I enjoy that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you feel this way.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: It's very hard for me to comprehend that people would
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: want to approach me, or tell me that people exist
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: in consuming my content or listen to my show, because
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: my mind, we're all just friends. And having that kind
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: of alter ego was a nice barrier. Especially in the beginning.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: They would say, oh my god, like freckled foodie and
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, cool, isn't she awesome?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Not thinking it was me. Does that make sense? Yeah,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense because I think at
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: the time it sounds like it really was an alter ego.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: It was, and I was living the same life, but
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: it wasn't my face, and it wasn't talking about anything
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: specifically personal.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: It was food.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: And at the time, when you started gaining some traction,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: did you have a vision or a dream for what
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you wanted it to be.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: In the beginning, the dream was to get free meals
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: at restaurants. I was like, do you think I can
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: go to Lartoozy and they'll like give me a free
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: meal if I post that was the dream.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Then when I actually started to really think about certain
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: things and lean in and try different things, I felt
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: like every time I opened a door, there were ten
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: doors behind it, and I did not have the time
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: to open them, and I desperately wanted to, but I
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: was being pulled so insanely thin, and I felt when
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I eventually went to leave my job, I did sit
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: down and have this whole quote unquote business plan.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Was it at all what I'm doing today? None of it?
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: But I was online in school for health coaching. I
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: was meal prepping for people all weekend long. I was
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: doing these like grocery store run throughs with them or
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: kitchen audits. It was way more health focused and my
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: business plan at the time.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I would actually love to find it.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: I think it was, or I know it was way
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: more coaching and cooking and maybe one sponsored post a month.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But I had maybe three thousand.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Followers, and we didn't know the creator industry in twenty
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: eighteen like we do now. We didn't know the alex
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Earls of the world and how they made money or
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: that they could make money, So that just wasn't It.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Was more gate kept.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it also didn't really exist in twenty eighteen.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: There were like five wellness influencers that I can think of,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: and that was kind of it, and there weren't even
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: many podcasts. I don't think in twenty eighteen there wasn't
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: like it is today, so I didn't know that was
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: even an option.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you as freckled foodie. And I want
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: to ask sort of like a tough question, which is
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: it sounds like you were not speaking of wellness in
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: terms of consumerism the way that a lot of wellness
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: influencers were. You weren't saying, like, buy this three hundred
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: dollars serum of unicorn tears and it'll make things better.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I don't think wellness was as insane as it is
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: now in twenty eighteen, but I was struggling with my
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: own orthorexic thoughts around food and exercise, and if I
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: were to look back at some of the content, I'm
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: sure I would be like, you need to get your
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: butt in therapy because you do not have a healthy
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: relationship with quote unquote wellness.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: It did begin to consume.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Me, and I think I had spent so much of
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: my life focused on me. One of the greatest gifts
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: becoming a mom has given me is focusing on someone
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: other than myself.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: It's actually why we got a dog.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: I remember being so anxious and depressed and obsessed with
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: my own thoughts and feelings and life and every morsel
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: of food that went in my body, and how long
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: I worked out, and I knew I always wanted a dog,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: as did my husband. And I remember being like, I
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: need someone else to focus on. I am so consumed
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: with myself. I need someone else to focus on. Did
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: it help, Yes, not at all in the way that
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: children do, but it did help. I had someone else
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: to think of. And so I say all that because
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I think the wellness world can become so obsessive. And
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: it did an aversion for me, but not to the
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: extreme that we sometimes see on the internet.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Now, your content now is largely about motherhood and mental health.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: What was the transition? Were you craving deeper conversation or
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: what was it?
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: I was sharing a lot about my mental health once
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I quit my job because I was very anxious. I've
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: always been an anxious person. I didn't necessarily have the
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: language or the wherewithal to understand that it was anxiety.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: And then at my job, it was kind of as
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: if they turned the dial up on all of my
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: not so great tendencies fast paced, competitive, move it or
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: lose at my way the highway. Everything has to get
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: done this second. If you're slow, what the hell are
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: you doing? And it allowed me to thrive on a
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: trading floor, because that's the person that does thrive, and
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: it really hurt me in my personal life, and I
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: was really anxious and lonely, even though I had this
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: life that I had always thought I wanted, and on
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: paper it looked amazing and I had incredible people, but
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I felt so isolated. And so when I quit my job,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: I kind of thought it was going to be this
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: magic wand of my anxiety is going to be gone
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: because now I'm not on a trading floor anymore.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: And that was not the case.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: And I vividly remember I had gotten in a car
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: accident and had a back concussion that led to disability
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: while I was at GP that eventually led to me
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: leaving and making this leap of faith. And I remember
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: meeting with my neurologist about my postconcussion symptoms and my
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: mom wanting to come with me because she was very
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: concerned about my health at the time and she just
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: wanted to be an advocate in extra years. And I
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: remember sitting there and my neurologists asking me.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Are you anxious? And I said, well, I'm no more anxious.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Than I ever was.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I left my job, so no, I'm not anxious now.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: And my mom when we left was like, girl, you
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: are a lot more anxious now. You might have thought
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: that leaving that job was going to ridge you of
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: all of your anxiety, but now you're riddled with ten
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: thousand other things. And especially at this time, I was
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: trying to build this business and having no idea what
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I was doing. And that was then when I started medication,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: which kind of really sparked a lot of my discussion
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: around my anxiety on my platform. So once I left
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: my corporate job, I felt more comfortable sharing myself and
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: my experience. And when I did that, I noticed how
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: many people in my community were going through something similar.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Was it healing to hear them or was it difficult
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and triggering.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Part of it was self serving in the sense that
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: I realized I wasn't alone, and then it was this
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: realization of oh, we all feel long And I've always
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: been a sharer. I've always felt very comfortable laying my
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: cards out and if you like it, great, if you don't,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: that's also fine. And so when I was noticing how
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: isolated other people felt, I realized, oh, if I share,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: maybe they'll feel less alone. And then I started to
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: build this incredible community. And then the largest turning point
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: was pregnancy for me. I had a surprise pregnancy. I
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: thought I was going to love being pregnant, and it
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: rocked me, and postpartum rocked me. I struggled with the
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: postpartum anxiety and depression and that was when I gained
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I think another like download of my community because I
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: was so brutally honest about my experience.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: You really say the thing like I know people online.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: There is a theme that people feel connected to you
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: if you are sharing your truth or sharing vulnerably. But
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I sometimes have to be honest. I'm shocked at how
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: much you share and now knowing that's who you are.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: There has never been a moment in my life where
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: I felt forced to share something. There are things I
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: don't share, of course. There are many things that I
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: don't share. There are many aspects of my life that
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: I keep very close to my chest because it's a
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: no one's business.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Do you think there's such thing as TMI. No, not
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Like if you know me in my life, you will
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: know every detail of everything I do. You will see
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: me naked within ten seconds. Like that's just how who
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I've always been. But I mean in the sense of
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I keep my family very close to my chest, my
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: personal family, my extended family, my in laws, Like there
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: are so much that happens.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: In my life that I don't need to share because
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: it's not my story, right, So you share what's yours.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: I share what's mine, but I never feel forced to share.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I think there's a huge difference of force vulnerability and
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: just oh, and.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: This is what happened.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: And so I felt like I was connecting with more
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: and more women, And honestly, food became less and less
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: interesting to me the more I let go of those
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: orthorexic thoughts, and motherhood became the most interesting thing to me,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: and the way that we navigate motherhood and the way
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: that we speak about motherhood and the way that we're
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: impacted by motherhood alongside mental health. And so that's when
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: my content really shifted. And then I changed my name
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to my actual name, Cameron Ooks Rogers, and then I
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: changed my podcast name. So it's been this kind of
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: like evolution of me as a being alongside my business.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I've heard you say that your relationship with therapy ebbs
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and flows.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Where are you with it now? We just moved to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: every other week.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: I had been consistently in therapy every single week for
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: seven years and I love that I've been with the
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: same therapist because she knows all the players in my life.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I don't have to be like and this person, let
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: me explain who they are. She's like, yeah, I got you,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: which is so amazing. But I also felt like, because
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I do a lot of self work, and kind of
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: part of our job, I will say is a little
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: insular self work.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, if you're not excavating, you have nothing to share.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: I felt this kind of plateau, and I said to her,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I'm almost dreating therapy because I'm having to really.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Think about what i want to talk about.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: There's nothing that feels needs fixing necessarily, there are certain
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: things that I wanted to figure out, and I felt
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: talk therapy necessarily wasn't getting to the root of it.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: So we are in once a week and we'll go
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: I think to more maintenance. But I am doing AMDR therapy,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: which has been extremely fascinating. But talking about boundaries, that's
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: something that I've said I'm doing and I'm not getting
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: into the details of it. Well, I'm happy to talk
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: with you about like the process and stuff, but I'm
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: not sharing like this is what the trauma is that
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: I'm working through because I just don't feel that's necessary
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: to share.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Right, And I like that it seems like you have
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: this like very strict constitution with yourself, like you don't
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: have to navigate the sharing. It sounds like it's a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: quick yes or no for you.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: I'm very gut forward, Like even with parenting, I don't
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: read parenting really no, I'm what is my gut telling me?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Have you always been that way? I have?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I've always really trusted my gut. I've had to do
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: so much work to trust mine. That's amazing.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I always hear it.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Whether I trust it is actually another conversation because there's
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: something I did with my career a few years ago,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: and I remember my gut being like, this isn't right.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: But I wanted the shiny object. And you think about
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: it to this day.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it wasn't right, but I really thought that
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: it was the thing I wanted.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I think everyone does that. That's part of no.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I think that we're all going to have those Yeah,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: But I do think with parenting especially, that's where I
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: feel the most connected to my gut, and I just
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: lead with that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I hear people talking about
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: most often now is that the world feels hard and heavy,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and I do not want to ignore the real stuff
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that is hard and heavy. I've always just kind of
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: been an eternal optimist, and when I talk to older women,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: they feel like this is just the ebbs and flows
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of culture and life, although they do say that it
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: feels worse than usual.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: You're such a sensitive person.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering how you're navigating being optimistic and also like
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: facing the realities of what's hard.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I'm having a very hard time, like very hard, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I talk about that a lot in therapy because I
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: can get really wrapped up in it, and I think
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: it's twofold one. I've chosen with my content to share
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: my stances and my beliefs in politics and be outspoken
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: on them and not shy away from it. So then
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: I think the more I talk about it, the more
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I'm in conversation about it, the more I'm consuming it,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the more it feels all consuming. So I'm trying to
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: figure out what is this fine line between consuming the
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: news and not letting the news consume me. And I
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: serve on an impact board of an organization that's working
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: to end mass shootings, and so we do a lot
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: of work, whether it be the days that we're actually
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: lobbying in Congress. I never heard a million years said
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I would say these words, But I'm on zooms with
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: like legislative teams of senators and meeting with families who
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: have lost children in school shootings, and like, it is
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: heavy work. And I love it because I think it's
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: wildly important.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I don't love it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I think it's important and I feel very called to
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: do it, but it has a very last impact on
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: me that I don't think I fully acknowledge. But having
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: children and doing that work feels very intense, and so
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to navigate. Like, for instance, i can't go
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: on threads. I don't have Twitter, but I go on Threads,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: and like I can't do it at night because I'll
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: be like walking into the bedroom. We don't do phones
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: in our bed, but when I walk from downstairs upstairs,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I'm on my phone and I'll just be enraged, yelling
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: about things that a certain someone is doing that day, and.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: My husband's like, why are you doing this right now?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: It's ten o'clock. We're about to get in bed, Like
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: why are you screaming at me about him? So he
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: doesn't share your sort of outrage.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: He shares the outrage, but not at ten o'clock at night.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: You just feel things really deep I feel things really deeply.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And he's not on social media, so he doesn't get
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: sucked into the same holes that I do, where like
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I consume, consume, consume, and then I spiral and then
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I'm outraged since ten o'clock and like he's trying to
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: wind down, and I'm supposed to be winding down, and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: now I'm just angry and so trying to I have
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a question about your relationship because I was actually just
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: talking with a friend who fell in love with her
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: husband at a point in time where she was super
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: career focused and she was doing one thing at a
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: very high level, and then a few years after they
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: got married, she was like, I'm burnt out. I'm kind
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: of done with this, and took a full step back
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: a pause, and she says, I think that I'm not
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the girl that my husband fell in love with anymore.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And I'm still me but I think he fell in
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: love with some of that fire that I don't have anymore,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and you are plenty fiery.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: But the girl that your husband fell in love with
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: was in finance. No, the girl that he fell in
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: love with was sixteen. We've been together since we were sixteen,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: so he's seen all the iterations.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: We have seen so many iterations of each other. That's cool.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: So many iterations of each other, which has been the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: greatest gift in the world, truly, the greatest.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Gift in the world. Has there always been space for
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: all the iterations?
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Where is there ever? Friction?
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: He allows me a lot more space. It's something I'm
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: working on with him, well with myself, actually, And I
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: find that has been such a gift in the sense
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: that we knew from a very early age and even
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: in college when we were together and we spent some
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: time apart, but it was this concept of we want
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to grow individually, but on parallel tracks. So we always
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: had the freedom to have our own experiences and we
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: live individual, correlated lives. I have so many nights where
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I'm at with my girlfriends. He has so many nights
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: where he's with his guy friends or weekend trips or whatever,
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: and then so many times there we're all together, and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: then so many times we're individually together. I never wanted
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: a relationship where I felt someone had to be with
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: me twenty four to seven. We're both very independent people,
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: but we are each other's person like he is my
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: absolute fucking rock, and I.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Would not be able to do anything. I posted it
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: today this morning.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I was like, if you are single or dating and
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: you want to have kids in the future, the number
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: one thing you should be thinking about is how they
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: are going to show up as a parent and a
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: partner in the household. Because I watch so many women
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: in my dms, especially parent they're partners, and it blows
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: my mind, absolutely blows my mind. They are married, single parents,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and I don't think we talk about that enough, because
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: that is the greatest onlock, in my opinion, to enjoying
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: your experience and fulfilling yourself as an individual, as a
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: mother and in your career after having children, is how
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: your partner shows up.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I had a girlfriend of mine say that she feels
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: like most of her friend's husbands are great dads and
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: bad husbands, and I see what she's talking about. But
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it's hard for me to be willing to accept one
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: of those things.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: No, you shouldn't. Yeah, I'll be single.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: So it's better to be single and have children on
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: your own than to be a single married parent.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: It seems like such a lonely experience.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: I can't even like the messages I'll get if I'm away.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: It's like, who's with your kids? I'm like my husband
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: their father, and they're like, oh my gosh, do you
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: leave him? Like all this su I'm like what, No,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: I walk out the door. They are his children, he
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: lives in this house. Like, I refuse to agree with
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: this narrative that we need to be babying our partners
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and take care of them.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: They are grown ass adults. Start treating them like them.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Eve Rodsky wrote an entired book about it, with fair Play.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: She changed my life because I actually had a limiting
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: belief around that as well, which was like I saw
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: my mom do so much and my dad is a
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: fully functioning partner, but she really did more, and I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: still think he doesn't give her enough credit.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Nope, but that's that generation. I asked my mom all
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: the time, how in God's name did you raise three
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: of us while dad was never home. What does she say?
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: She like, doesn't remember anything. She's like, it just was.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: I don't no, But I also think they just didn't
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: expect differently. My mom and I talk about this a lot,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: where we spend a ton of time with my parents,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and so they are observing myself and my husband as
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: parents all the time. And my mom is always commenting
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: Joe is my mom's favorite child's because she's also known
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: him for eighteen years now, like that's an ongoing joke.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: He is her favorite child, and she's always saying, like,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: how incredible. Oh, it's so amazing too, and I'm like, yeah,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: it is, and he is an amazing parent, and also
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: he's a parent. You guys just saw and expected such
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: different things back in the day.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: But how did you expect something different if that wasn't modeled.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: I feel like it wasn't modeled in my household, but
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it's been modeled in some media.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So Eve is the perfect example. I love Eve. I
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: was just with her yesterday. She is the absolute best
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: and she's truly one of the best human beings I've
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: ever met. Love her.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: We bought her card deck before we had children because
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: I noticed in our apartment the toothpaste was running low,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I wonder if Joe would buy
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: a new toothpaste. So I hit a toothpaste tube and
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I used a fold toothpaste tube to see how long
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: it would take for him to buy a new toothpaste.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Because we had just fallen into this rhythm, because I
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: was technically in the apartment that he moved into, we'd
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: fallen into this rhythm of like I was ordering the
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: toilet paper, I was getting the tooth you know, all.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Shampoo, the little things you don't think about that are
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of times.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And I remember when we got our dog.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: That was the first time we really sat down and
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: we were like, Okay, who's going to walk him?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Like, let's structure this out. All do mornings, you do nights.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: You can feed him, then I'll feed him then and
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: we got fair play, and I remember having a conversation
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: around it. Then we had a kid, and he had
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: two weeks in paternity leave, so a lot fell on
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: me when he went back to work, and then we
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: sat down and did fair play again. And one of
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: the greatest things about Joe is that if I give
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: him feedback, he changes, and I wish I said the
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: same thing about myself.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And he took the feedback and changed. And I don't know.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: I think it was I had dreams and desires of
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: things I wanted to do, and I couldn't make it
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: possible if I was carrying everything, and I didn't want
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: to be as mom like I just I don't know.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know because I didn't see it modeled necessarily
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: my households, So I'm not sure where it came from.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Eve. I guess literally.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: When I had her on the podcast, she called herself
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the ghost of Christmas Past because she was like, I
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: want to come back and help everybody, so you don't
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: get into this situation. People play fair play or read
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the book like once they're in the situation. But reading
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the book before marriage was life changing. Yes, do it before. Yeah,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: there's so few people who shift culture like I'm just
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: she shifted culture.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Has literally begun a movement, Yes, and I love it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. You said that motherhood gave you an identity crisis.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: What would you do differently to prepare for the shift?
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, I have a hot take on this. I don't
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: think you can prepare Okay, I think you can. No,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I mean I think you can have the conversations with people.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: If you have people in your life who had children,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: what do you wish you knew beforehand? Or what's some advice?
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I will say. The only preparation I think you can
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: tangibly do is have a therapist, a prescriber, and a
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: lactation consultant that you have a relationship with and are
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: a client of before you give birth, because you may
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: need those. You may not amazing, but you may need them.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: To find a new doctor, to get off their wait lists,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: to find one that's in network, to find one.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: That you like. You're in crisis.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: It's not good in crisis ten times harder, and all
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: of those things you could potentially need and feel in crisis,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: lactation consultant especially, So that is my one tip. Otherwise,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I don't think you can ever comprehend, and I don't
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: mean this in a dismissive way. You will never understand
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: what that postpartum experience is like until you're in it.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: You can read every book until you're blue in the face,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: and you can think you are so prepared and you
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: can never prepare for it.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that you wish you would have done
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: before having kids.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I think about this kind of often, where I will
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: watch people who are really far in their careers, who
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I really deeply admire, who don't have children yet, and
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I have a pang of jealousy. And maybe that's because
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with my career, but like, I wonder what
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I could have done more of before I had kids
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: if I had waited. I've never actually admitted that, but
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: then I also remember my children wouldn't be the exact
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: child they are because it's that exact egg, so that
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: kind of cuts.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: It right off. But I do feel not that I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: had kids young.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I was thirty, so it's odd, but in today's world
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: it kind of feels young in New York, like I
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: feel like a teen mom. Sometimes I'm trying to think
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: there's anything I would have tangibly done. I mean everyone
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: will say like travel more. I think I would have
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: just fucking laid down more. Honestly, I would have wrought it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I would have rotted on a couch. I never roted.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I acted like I was the most important person in
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: the world and that I always had to be doing something,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: and I would have rotted what do you mean like
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: you would do hobbies like.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Lay on a couch and do nothing read or what
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: did you do? What did I do with? Were you
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: busy doing? I mean you worked a lot.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the hell I was thinking. But
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: when I was working at chip Morgan, I would wake
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: up at four thirty in the morning to work on
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Freckle Foody, to get to the gym at five thirty,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: to get to my desk at six forty five, to
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: work until five thirty, to come home and then work
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: on Freckle Foody until nine o'clock at night. And then
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: on the weekends I would have a full menu and
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: grocery list, and I would spend all Saturday grocery shopping
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: at different stores, lugging it back to my apartment, cooking
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: all Saturday and all Sunday, and then delivering it to
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: people's homes on Sunday.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: How long did you do this for a year? That
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: is completely unsustainable?
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: And then at the beach, I would wake up and
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: make breakfasts and like get these like plastic cups and
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: banners and whatever and hand them out to people just
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: so that they like knew about Freckle Foody.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you were really you were willing
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: to like do the hard thing. Yeah.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: And when I sat down with Joe, because we were
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: engaged at the time, so we were like merging our
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: finances and this became a joint decision, and I said,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: I think I want to quit my job and like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: see if I can do this. I remember him vividly saying,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: if you were someone who sat on the couch all
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: day and I had to force to do things, I don't.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Think being your own boss would be a good idea.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: But I've watched you for many years in life, and
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: especially the past year grind and grind, and I believe
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: you and.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: You'll figure it out. And so I just feel like
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I wish I would have relaxed more. Does it feel
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: gratifying knowing that you figured it out? Yeah.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I love my work ethics in a sick, twisted way.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I love it, and I think that stems from feeling
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: like I have to prove something.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: The more I talk to people, the more I feel
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: like highly driven people have this like mix of trauma
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and love in their childhood.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: You feel hundred percent, Yeah, it's there. They're behind every
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: successful woman. Yeah, is in needle well, you've got to
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: be running from something or running towards something. Yeah, but
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: that's what I mean.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Like the people who are running, you're running towards something,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: but you're also running from something.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I figured out what I'm running from?
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Do you know what you're running from? No.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: One of the reasons, I'm a it's hard to pinpoint. Yeah,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: or could we just be excited about?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Like? Can I just be excited? Yeah? I have a
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: hard time sitting sell. I think that's the reality.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I never saw my mom sit still or my dad
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: like I've never known or witness them to relax, ever,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: And so it's what I.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Grew up with.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: And I think I also have this like chip on
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: my shoulder to prove coming from privilege. It's like, I
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: don't want people to think I just got this because
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: I grew up rich. I want to work and work
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: and be like, no, I deserve this. And I think
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: two things can be true. Obviously, you can't deny there's privilege,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: and you can have a hard work ethic. But I
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: feel for so long I felt so driven to prove
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: by my work ethic, and I think I've unworked.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: A bit of that when I see millennial moms, I
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: think that they've shifted a lot in motherhood and then
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I see gen Z moms now and it's a whole
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: different brand, or at the gen zs are like moms.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I know any gen Z moms.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Have you seen online? Do you see a difference?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Like how do you think millennials in particular have shifted motherhood.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I think that there was a big movement of the
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: gentle parenting and the reparent ourselves and just be kind.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: And I think sometimes we let it get away from us,
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: where like my kids should be afraid of me, I
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: am in charge. I want them to always feel loved
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: and cared for. I know that I love them no
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: matter what, but I want to be able to give
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: my child a look and have them stop what they
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: are doing, Like there have to be repercussions, and I
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: think sometimes we've let go of the repercussions. I've witnessed
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: someone smack my child's in a playground and the dad
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: be like, we don't do that, like get him off
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: the playground, Like how do you feel. I'm all for
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: talking about our emotions, and I'm all for everyone inherently
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: is good and I want to so you're not enery
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: gentle to the children. I think gentle parenting has honestly
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: been misunderstood because if you go to the core of
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: gentle parenting, they will say that there are supposed to.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Be repercussions for your actions.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: It's just you're not yelling, and I don't yell at
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: my kids, but you better believe there are repercussions if
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: you do that again.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: This toy is getting taken away.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying this is right or wrong by
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: the way, I don't know, but that toy will get
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: taken away if you do it again, and it does
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: and you don't get it.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Have you ever come outside of yourself and found yourself
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: yelling or doing something that you feel ashamed about later?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, I grew up in a very lout household.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: We yelled, we screamed crazy things at each other, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I make a conscious effort.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: It's why I wake up early in the morning.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: It's why i'm out of tay, it's why I journal,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: It's why I do all myself work so that I
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: do not lose.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: My shit all my children.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Because my natural inclination is to just yell and be loud.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: And lose my shit, and I don't want to have
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I yes, but I believe that the repair is more important.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: So when I have lost my shit, it's in the
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: conversations with my kids, specifically my four year old, because
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: he's older and he can understand of like, I am
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: so sorry.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I should not have reacted that way. You did nothing wrong.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I was just very frustrated and that's not how I
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: should behave And this is how we can work through
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: our anger. And so like when I was a kid,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I feel like I was taught I'm not allowed to
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: be angry, almost like, oh, be happy, even though we're yelling,
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: everyone be happy. And I tell my son all the time,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: you can be angry, but you cannot yell at me.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Go put your head on that pillow and scream as
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: loud as you want. Go punch your pillow, go upstairs
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: to your room and be by yourself. That's so fine.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: You are allowed to be angry, because I still get angry.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: But how do we handle the anger and what.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Do we do with it?
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: I really like that philosophy.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: What's something you used to believe deeply about raising kids
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: that you don't don't believe anymore? I don't know if
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I believed it deeply, but I don't think I ever
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: thought about how you have to parent different kids differently.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I just never thought about that, do.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: You have a kid who's more anxious or less anxious,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: not anxious per se.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: I don't think we've gotten old enough to figure that
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: out yet. But I have two very different children.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Night and day. Everything about them is different.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: And I think my first kid, in the beginning especially,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: was this like unicorn baby who didn't cry and slept
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: well and never spit up. And I was like, I'm
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: the best. I am so good at this. And then
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: my second kid humbled me in the most needed way.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: I hear that so often, truly, he's the freakin' best,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: But he humbled me in the best way. Where I
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: also let go of so much control because I was
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: so anal with our first and I tried the same
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: with our second and realized it didn't work. So I
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: just kind of threw caution to the wind. I was like, Okay,
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: I guess we're on this ride. And I think that's
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: the biggest thing that's shifted in me. Many things have shifted.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: I used to be so type a controlling before I
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: was a mom, and I don't think I would say
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: I'm Type B. I'm Type A with my work, but
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: in other aspects of my life, I am so much
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: more comfortable giving up control over things I just don't
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: care about.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do some rapid fire with you. A conspiracy theory.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: You can get.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Behind what qualifies as a conspiracy theory. Like we were
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: talking about reincarnation on my show. Can we count that?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, like fully get behind that. Ghosts all of
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: those things.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I've never met a ghost, but I used to have
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: a good carnation in my house.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: You met them, I did not meet them hardly.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Could have told you about her multiple Carli's her cousin
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: by the way.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've since sold it.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: But the house I grew up in was over three
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: hundred years old, and it was an old farmhouse. And
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: multiple people have seen the same woman ghost, multiple.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: People who aren't connected. I want to meet her. Yeah,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: me too.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: I never met her, but I used to do like
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: seances and all that stuff.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I was kind of into it when I was younger.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I always tell the women in my life that I
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: love that if we lived back in the day, we
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: would have been in the same coven.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I was a witch. So it's like that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: A lesson you've learned in therapy that you use daily,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: The power of and two conflicting emotions can coexist at once.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I noticed you use that, you say it all the
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: time instead of but.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think it's the most powerful realization in
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: motherhood to give yourself the freedom to feel two things.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: There's a few definitions of wisdom. My favorite definition is
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to be able to hold two opposing truths at one time.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: So the and is literally wisdom. Yes, a belief you've
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: outgrown that I can white knuckle anything into happening. A
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: belief you refuse to let.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Go of that you need to look or act a
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: certain way to be taken seriously or to be successful.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: A book that changed your life, something you think everybody
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: should read.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: I do not read books that I will blank and
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: statement change my life.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: You're such a reader. I read so much. But do
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: you know what I read? Yeah? You like smart romance,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I talk, but that could be life changing. Accord. Okay,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: let me just tell you.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Actually, Yes, if you are mom listening to this, I
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: don't know what your demo listeners are, but if you
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: are anyone. Okay, I hate saying mom, but I think
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: moms struggle the most with their sexual well being after
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: having children.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Your partner becomes your roommate.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: You're freaking tired, your body doesn't feel like yours, your
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: sex drive just isn't the same.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: You feel like you don't have the time.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Reading romance novels will ignite your spark again. And I
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: think sexual well being is so important. I talk about
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: it a lot on my platform because I think sex
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: is a part of our mental health and wellness.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: So if we're gonna go fantasy a Court of Thorn
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: and Roses by Sarah Jay.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Mass, if we're gonna go non fantasy, I'm gonna recommend
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: the Windy City series.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you say it proudly. Something every
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: woman should try once. I'm thinking like there are a
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: few that are coming to me traveling alone. I used
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: to do a lot of that. I loved it. I
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: haven't done it recently.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Doing something naked, just like anything anything, my mom's gonna
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: kill me. But I would sometimes come downstairs and she
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: was doing the dishes naked.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Such a naked household. My husband has seen my mom
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: naked on multiple ocasions. Like, it is such a naked household.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: So your mom is me.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: It's either like you're naked or you're not.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: We have this conversation at dinner last night. My friend
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: was saying she grew up in one and I was like, no,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: you haven't. I've never seen your mom naked, and she
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: was like, what do you mean? I was like, how
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: many times have you seen my mom naked? My friends
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: have seen my mom.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: She's like, well, you're an abnormality, so just like doing
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: stuff naked. I'll leave it at those two. The last
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: question is the question everything card game question, which is
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: do plants thrive or die in your care?
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Neutral? No, plants, very few, and I would not say
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: they thrive, but you're not in the suburbs. Yeah, you know
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. Indoor plants, yeah, outdoor counts outdoor yeah,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: but we have like a sprinkler resoll. My outdoor plants
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: thrive with money.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: You're still taking care of Okay, then yes, sure they
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: don't die, but I really don't know if to thrive
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: it's the right word.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: They are alive. Cam, Thank you so much, thank you,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: You're amazing.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is? Today's a good
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: day to have a good day. I'll see you next week.