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T.K. Johnson: Slay the Dragon That Scares You · The Daily Writer

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome to the Saturday edition of the Daily Writer.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Here on the Saturday edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a question for you to kick off this episode.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever avoided doing something that scares you?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as writers, we face this pretty much every single day.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: After all, writing is scary.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Our most important task is to slay the dragons that keep us from achieving our writing dreams.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my guest today is T.K.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Johnson, and she's a fiction author who's here to help us do just that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's the author of Riveting Plot Twists, Fantastical Worlds, and Spellbinding Relationships.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: TK is the young adult fantasy author of the Laurel Vaughn series.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: With four books published and another set for release this year, her stories help readers face the dragons of our world through fiction before they confront them in reality.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's from Fort Wayne, Indiana, where she creates from her hundred-year-old tiny house.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: In this conversation, TK shares how she has conquered fear and developed habits that have allowed her to write several novels.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: She also shares her story development process, some thoughts on self-publishing, and so much more.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: We also get to geek out over Star Wars, and anytime that I get to talk about Star Wars, I consider that a pretty awesome podcast conversation.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've got to tell you, I loved the theme of this episode, Slaying Dragons.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you have resisted doing the very thing that you need to do as a writer, TK, I promise, is going to inspire you with her wisdom and her passion for storytelling.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get right to the conversation with the amazing author, TK Johnson.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: TK, it is a pleasure to welcome you to the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me, Kent.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited to be here.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I got to give my good buddy Jim Woods a shout-out because he made the connection between us.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jim, if you're listening to this, um, I'm gonna buy you a coffee sometime.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Next time I try to go.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Jim.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: I owe you coffee as well.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know Jim has been helpful to you as well.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and you guys keep in touch.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Jim is just kind of that he's that sort of guy who just connects people and sort of sprinkles goodness wherever he goes in life, which is awesome.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: He has a very big heart for helping writers, and he really does that.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's been a huge help to me over the years.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've known each other probably seven or eight years, and I probably wouldn't be doing the stuff that I'm doing now if it wasn't for him, uh at least partly, just being such an encouragement and also giving you kind of a kick in the pants whenever it's needed, you know.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's called for in the life of a writer.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about your your books and your writing because you've done some really, really exciting stuff for our authors or for our authors, for our listeners who are not familiar with your book series, give us an overview of the Laurel Vaughn series and what it's about and and really anything that you want to share about it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the series is really still growing and morphing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to have this great summary for it, and then I wrote a fourth book, and I'm like, oh, but now it's it goes in this direction too.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: But overall, uh the Laurel Vaughn series is about uh heroes that make mistakes, love that's unrequited, and the way that reality can, you know, the dragons that we face in a book, we can learn from in order to face them in reality.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I love writing that into each book that I have.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: My very first book in the series is a little bit more of a coming of age story.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: But as you go through the other books in the series, as you grow with these characters, it's really stories that anyone can face in real life, but you're seeing it in a fantasy book.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that emphasis on dragons.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because dragons have been some so much of a part of human imagination since, I mean, I don't know, many thousands of years, I'm sure.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Probably in every culture in the world, there's some kind of mythology about dragons.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think it is about dragons that we find so fascinating and like we're drawn to them, but we're also terrified of them at the same time?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, because I think they're so much like people.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're so drawn to other people, and yet they are terrifying.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: The true monsters in the world are really just other humans.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think dragons are very much like that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, our fairy tales of dragons going back centuries, you know, it's let's slay the dragon, but it's also dragons fighting with kings and with knights and becoming friends and helpers.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's, I think we love dragons because they're a little bit bigger and more fantastical version of humans in a way.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like that line at the end of the original King Kong movie.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember the exact line, but the guy standing there that killed King Kong, he falls from the Empire State Building, and he says something like, We killed the monster, but the real monster was us.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, at least I'm thinking that's what he says.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I could be totally off base, but no, in my mind, I'm imagining it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember the Peter Jackson version, it's something like that too.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was good.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that is interesting.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've never thought of dragons as a metaphor for the dragon that is within all of us.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, it wasn't how I started either when I wrote the story.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was working uh my first book in the series, I was working with uh in the mental health field with teenagers, young adults who are struggling with abusive families, a lot of neglect, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really hearing those stories.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wow, like they face things far greater and scarier than we ever see in a fairy tale.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: But what I saw, what brought these people together, was always the fantastical worlds.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was books, it was movies, it was fandoms.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you start talking about something nerdy, and it's like a switch flipped, and they got so excited.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you can tell that was their escape and that was their safe place.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's really what got me excited to write my first story and to write my first book was just okay, how do I how do I make a character that can relate to that, who's also in a difficult family life, who also doesn't feel safe at home?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens when she enters that, you know, fantastical world that connects people?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the story just kind of wrote itself from there a little bit.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find that your background in the mental health field did that have any bearing on your storytelling in terms of the things that you were thinking about, things you were learning in your interactions with people and probably some self-analysis too?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of us, I think it's impossible not to drop at least some crumbs of ourselves in our writing somehow.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, my background is actually in theater.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I loved the management side of it and managing people.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I learned script writing, script analysis through the through the required classes I had, and it all led me to a job in a mental health field.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, just I was really producing a TV show, an online show for teenagers, but it got me so intrigued in mental health.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And now I find that it's hard to write a book without those aspects in there.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's I think it's things that we always think about and know about ourselves and others, but we're now putting more labels on it and in a good way, labels.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're calling it mental health.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're saying, okay, you know, if if our body has an issue, if we have a cut, we're gonna take care of it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: So if our brain has a cut, why aren't we taking care of that too?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're just putting names to things I think we already knew.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: At least society is a lot more.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, it definitely plays into my writing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's helped me self-reflect a lot into things that I've struggled with and how I've overcome them, or if I'm still overcoming them and how writing a book can help.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you probably know this, but sometimes writing, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, I know a lot of people tell their own story.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's very therapeutic to sit down and write out your feelings and your thoughts, and you learn a lot about yourself that way too.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even even if you never publish anything, doing something just like journaling in the morning when you get up and and doing a brain dump and just expressing your feelings and keeping that locked away so nobody publishes it and making sure they don't.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you probably this is probably how some of that you don't want in the world.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're like, my gosh, if anybody, if this ever gets out, they're gonna realize how I'm really and that's probably the true true of anybody is that we we've got to have a place to sort of dump dump our stuff, and a journal is a great place to do it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, yes, yep.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like this pandemic has because I I think a lot of people look at the the past couple of years uh in our world as something that has been a bad thing that has sort of created all this anxiety and depression and everything.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I wonder if it's not always been there, and this has just sort of revealed us for who we actually are in terms of we all feel stressed and anxious, and maybe in in in simpler times, we sort of have a thinly veiled layer of niceties and of social conventions.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when the world gets a little crazy and those get stripped away, it sort of like reveals us for the dragons that that all of us are inside at times.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, very much.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was so easy to ignore how scaly we were, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was easy to focus on the job, focus on you know your social life and the way that you felt like you're supposed to act.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: That when all that's stripped away from us, who are we who are we really?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: What are we really dealing with?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've sometimes told told people that you know, all of us are one or two bad decisions away from a complete train wreck in life.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we all sort of go through life kind of assuming that we're these really good people.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but the truth is that any of us, given the right set of circumstances, can do awful and horrible things, you know, whatever that that may be.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It almost sounds like I need a therapist, doesn't it?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't intend for that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, no, you're all right.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, or a priest or a therapist, one of the two.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably need to go to confession or something, but but this is the kind of stuff that stories bring out of us, isn't it?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's fiction gets to the heart of us in a way that other things doesn't.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know my most recent book, These Favored Shadows, I looked at that a lot more.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was the hero makes one emotional decision and it changes everything, it causes so much suffering and downfall.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I and everyone, it's hard to not give spoilers sometimes.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: But that I mean, and that's where I think as much as I loved fairy tales growing up, I love the happily ever afters, you know, the the truth is we are, like you said, one or two decisions away from just chaos sometimes.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So when you make that bad decision, when you hurt people, even if it maybe wasn't on purpose, you know, if you have an emotional reaction to something, what happens after?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what happens when you have to go seek forgiveness?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna hide from what you did?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna confront it?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna lie your way around it?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's it's so easy to just make that one bad decision and what happens then.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to dive into your your writing process for constructing a story, how you actually get it done.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I'm fascinated by with with fiction writers is you have a uh you have a story idea, you have the seed of something that you think you could build into a full world or or a full novel.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Then what is your process from there?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you are you a I feel like it's it's it's simplistic to say, are you a plotter or a pantser?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of in between there as well.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but by and large, how do you approach your story?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like to construct it ahead of time and then write it, or do you kind of do it as you go, or some blend of the two, or how does that happen for you?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in my life, in every aspect of my life, I am a plotter.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like ever, I'm so type A.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: My father-in-law used to call me type double A.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to writing, I am the opposite.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I am a pantser.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I usually look for the inspiration as my motivation.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm not inspired, then I'm like, maybe I can't make a whole story out of this.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, shout out to Jim Woods again because he taught me the phrase writing in the dark.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I had never heard of that before.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: But apparently that's what I do.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I am someone, I have an idea, I have a couple of scenes in my head, and I write those scenes and I see where they take me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the first book I wrote, it was only going to be that first book.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: I had a cliffhanger ending that I loved.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that I wanted to talk to young adults and teens about the struggles of life in a fantastical setting.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that was kind of it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so once I just started writing, ideas came to me.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of bubbled up more and more.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: But then the sequels I never planned and I never plotted through a three-book series, a four-book series.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's now going to be a five-book series.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, and I never planned that all out, but I realized that if I go back through my work, if I read back through it, and I've, you know, you write a book, you read through it numerous more times to edit and clean up and make make nice.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I just realized there's so many little lines here and there, so many little tidbits that you don't think about sometimes the first time you write it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: But when you go back, you're like, oh, that could have a different meaning, or hmm, that's a whole story within itself.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could write a whole book about that alone.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I've learned that while plotting is probably better and could lead to some better plot development and storytelling overall, I find more inspiration in just kind of going and seeing what happens.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then cleaning it up later.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, I can find that spark for new ideas and for sequels after.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is your general process for actually getting your book done?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess what I'm asking is how long does it take you to do your first draft?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have particular habits that are allowing you to get that done?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: What does it actually look like?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you what does it look like in practice for you getting that first draft done?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: My first three books I wrote while I worked full time.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say I actually was much more disciplined when I wasn't a full-time author.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm a full-time stay-at-wife and writer, and I have found I've lost a lot of discipline.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it would be that I'd come home for work, we'd eat dinner, I'd do an hour worth of stuff around the house, and then it was sit down and write.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, at least four nights a week, I would try to sit down and write.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't a chapter count or word count for me.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was just spend this time writing.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: You have to get some words out.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't necessarily write in a linear order.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I write, you know, I can get bored that way.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes I write what excites me most about the story in these different parts and pieces, and then I connect the dots later.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as a stay-at-home wife now and full-time author, you know, I just write and do stuff full-time.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I have found that it's harder to stay more disciplined, but I find my triggers and I find the better times now.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that evenings are better for me just because that that hits my writing mode.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm used to, is the writing mood, you know, when it's dark out, when the things are done for the day, my mind is kind of more relaxed.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not worried about what else has to be done.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when I can sit down and not feel guilty for writing.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Also, early mornings.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: When I get done with my workout and shower and eating breakfast, I can sit down and write for an hour or two and feel content with that before starting on the rest of the work for the day.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting that you mentioned you felt like you were more disciplined when you're doing it part-time than you're doing it full-time.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's really fascinating.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's uh, it goes back to that, you know, the idea of when we're constrained or when we have our options taken away from us, you find unique ways to make it work.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you have to find more imaginative ways to make things happen.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have only so many hours in a day, you're gonna write more.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be more steadfast in quality work versus just, well, I have to write some words, so let's get out a chunk of chapter that maybe you don't want to use later.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, let me get a little nerdy for a second.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: What tools do you use for writing?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use Word, Google Docs, Scrivener?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you use to actually get the words down and keep that stuff organized?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I am a uh Mac user.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love me, my Apple products.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so pages.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I grab a novel novel template and I just write on pages.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't worry about chapter length usually or page numbers or anything like that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just kind of start writing and when it feels like it's a good chapter break, I put in a chapter break and move on from there.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've tried Scrivener.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: I looked into that just because I love that you can plot and plan a little bit more.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then I felt I was so caught up in filling it all out about my characters and my plot and you know, all those scenes that I couldn't panzer very well.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was too busy plotting, but I wasn't getting any writing done.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: So a good blank page on a program that doesn't distract me tends to work best.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you asked about drafts earlier too.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if I ever work, I guess I don't work in a draft version.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that's really bad, but I typically just write my whole story.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And once it's all finished and complete, I do a full read through myself of edits, fixes here and there, making sure it's just how I like it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then I send it off.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I have one beta reader who always gets to read it first.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: She is great with plot holes, character development, all that.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Send it off to her, get feedback, make my changes, and then I distribute it to two more beta readers, get their feedback, make changes.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then I go to the next two beta readers.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of my process overall.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess you can call it draft one, and then draft two is after my first beta reader, but I actually work just off the same document the whole time because for me it's always getting better.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So why save an old for old bad version?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: There are some writers who have this super complicated system of you know, here's the draft, I got to put the date in.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, uh, you know, you by the time you get your book done, you have like a hundred documents or whatever it is.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I say just do whatever works for you.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: If pages works for you, Scrivener, Google Docs, you know, crayon and and constructed paper, whatever the heck it takes to get it done.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much anxiety among writers about should I use this or should I use this or am I doing it right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And man, if we could all just kind of calm down a little bit and just use whatever you want to use, just as long as you get the writing done.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's all that really matters.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's it's definitely a way that we procrastinate sometimes.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, oh my gosh, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's focus more on our tools and actually writing the words.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why, again, a blank page is easiest for me, because then I'll have to sit and just write it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to explore for a minute your decision to self-publish instead of going the traditional publishing route.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I talk to a lot about writers, and I'm always fascinated with uh with their choices with that, because you know, there's different opportunities and different, you know, pluses and minuses for each route.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm always interested in digging into this because people ask me about this kind of stuff a lot.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So why self-publishing instead of traditional?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: When I first finished the book, uh my husband connected me with a woman here in Fort Wayne who he knew and had worked with a little bit.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: She was a traditionally published uh ghostwriter.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you also do some ghost writing, but uh I can't talk about it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she she read my first chapter or two, gave me feedback, and then she asked, you know, which route do you want to go?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Oh, traditionally publish, of course.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like self-published, what is that?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's for no, that's for people who don't know what they're doing, that self-published thing.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so I was like, Oh, I'm definitely gonna traditionally publish.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get started?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: And her advice was, well, you have to start querying agents.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: You need to start entering your work into, you know, maybe some competitions for rewards so you can show agents how far you've come or that you do have good writing, and other people have certified that you need to go to these conferences and start meeting people, making connections and networking.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, all of that sounded so overwhelming.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the more I looked into it online, I was like, traditional publishing sounds impossible.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it very much sounds like who you know, or you catch a lucky break.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of sat on that for about a year or two.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't know what to do, how to even get started.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to like I didn't have the money to pay to go to conferences and pursue that route.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then I met someone, it was a coworker actually.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: She writes romance novellas, who uh who said, Oh no, self-publishing's great.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: She she sells books like once a week.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that just, I was like, what?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kind of talked to her about what it really looked like.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: My husband did the research.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And overall, I guess I just realized I don't have an in.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if my writing is that good yet.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually didn't mind the whole idea of giving up creative control.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm all right with that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: To me, my books aren't my babies.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I loved working on them, but it's time for something new as soon as I'm done with a book.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to write the next one.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm okay if someone takes creative, you know, license with some of the stuff.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wasn't necessarily married to that idea, but I thought, you know, I'm a new author.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's the first book, you know, full-length book I've written as an adult.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Let's try self-publishing just to see what I can do on my own.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where it started.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a friend read it and said, Oh my gosh, I have to read the sequel.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: How far along are you?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Can I read it before you publish it?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I realized, okay, I need to keep this going because the people who did read the first book, it ends on a cliffhanger.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted the next book.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so at this point, I've self-published just because my readers want the next book and they don't want to wait.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they don't want to wait for me to get an agent or for wait years for a publishing company to pick it up and work with it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: So far, that is the reason.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it sounds like that was the right decision in your case because you could do it a lot faster.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's tons of advantages to self publishing.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it just depends on what you want from the process.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I know a lot of authors who are traditionally published and a lot of authors who are self published.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the cool thing is that you can choose to do whatever is best for the project you're working on.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes your goals for one thing might be different than.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your goals for something else.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we have so many cool options today, which I love.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that a lot of the mentality is still that if you're traditionally published, you'll make a lot more money as an author.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's true.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know self-published authors who have made a ton of money, like they make a living off of their writing, and that's great.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I think traditionally published, you definitely have some more tools that you wouldn't otherwise.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's perks both ways, certainly.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got to ask about uh your biggest inspirations from stories, from movies, novels, whatever it is that you like to uh consume for entertainment.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that really inspire you from other stories?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: I always think back to when I was a kid, those big movie moments that just had you like big eyes in awe, staring and glued to your TV screen, uh, movies, TV shows, uh music.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Music's a big one for me.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love listening to movie scores.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know, I don't watch scary movies, but uh I was once told by a professor that if you take out the score to a movie and you watch it, and then you just put on the score to the movie, but don't watch the movie, just listen to it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: By the time you put them both together, it won't be scary at all.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that was unique because it shows you the power of music and the effect that it can have.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I listen to songs and when it hits that big crescendo or you get to that key change, you know, there's just such powerful moments where as a writer, my imagination just soars.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And not even, or even if there was a movie that maybe I can picture with that score, you know, my mind can just wander off and create a story based on a song.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, music is a huge inspiration.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I always still go back to those wonderful kids movies from the 90s that had these just powerful moments in them, you know, when Mufasa dies, whoo, that yeah, it blows you away.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or when Pocahontas jumps off the cliff, you know, down the waterfall, it was an awesome moment.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, okay, so how can I recreate that in my own story that makes someone feel that way as well?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's powerful.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So is there any anything uh like in in story culture, movies, etc., that you just really geek out about?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: You just love so much that you will go to the mat for this franchise or for this character or for the story.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for some people it's Star Trek, some people it's Star Wars, some people it's uh Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, whatever their thing is.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything like that for you that you just absolutely are into 100%?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Lord of the Rings.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up watching Lord of the Rings.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It came out when I was at a young and impressionable age.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was I was that kid whose mom covered her eyes because the orcs being made or the Uruk Kai being made.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was yucky, and so I wasn't allowed to see that part.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But oh man, I love those movies.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my siblings like memorized the behind the scenes parts because it was so cool to hear how excited the actors were and the crew and how they created it all.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: So Lord of the Rings definitely.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: When I heard that they were doing that Amazon series, you know, no one really knew much about it in the beginning, and we all just thought it was gonna be ruined.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, this is something I will jump on the internet to defend, you know, depending on what they do with this series.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so definitely Lord of the Rings.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been a fan of Star Wars.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've been made fun of all my life because I liked the prequels.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: I loved Haiti Christensen as an actor who played Anakin Skywalker.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was just young and impressionable, and I thought it was amazing, but uh grew up watching, yeah, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Rocky.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of the Rocky movies.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Rocky Balboa.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Don't mess with Sylvester Stallone.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: But on the flip side, I guess I'm gonna go the opposite way with that question.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: These days I feel very disappointed by a lot of movies and TV shows, and I think this is affecting affects my writing too.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I never feel very surprised anymore.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's very hard for a movie or show to surprise me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if it's because I studied scripts for four years and learned how they were written.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, we were taught to look for those little teasers and the foreshadowing and everything else.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like it's hard to be surprised these days.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when a movie or show can surprise me and I can't guess what's coming or the ending, then I typically end up loving loving that work a little bit more.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you think about the the current Marvel universe that it's expanded so much with Disney Plus shows and tons of movies coming out?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you enjoy the what am I trying to say?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually talking about this to some uh with some people this morning about how my understanding is that the Eternals movie did not do that well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen it, but that's what I've heard and reviews and stuff like that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because the director kind of went a different direction with with things as opposed to sticking more with like the Marvel template.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do you, as a storyteller and as a as a fiction writer, how do you think about all that?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the same time, Marvel stuff tries to be really creative, and I think a lot of the stuff has been really, really fun.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, it's also very corporate where you know you have all these characters that have to be integrated into franchises and that kind of thing.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, how what do you think about that as a storyteller?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, it's hard because in today's world, like you said, it's very corporate.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a great story that people love, it's gonna get sold to someone who wants to make more money off of it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how it works.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's how the publishing industry is.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: They want to be able to sell your book to make it to a movie because it leads to more profits.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is how anything works, I guess.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some level.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Overall, I think the Marvel universe was just revolutionary because they started combining all these stories together.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one movie hinted at the next movie, which then included characters from the previous movie who would be in the third movie, and you know, it all started intermingling.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that was very such a new idea during the time when it started, you know, when the first Iron Man came out, you know, it was and carried on.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was, and I think it was brilliant, very, very smart.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's hard as a fan of the Marvel universe to judge you have to judge things separately.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: You have to judge film as films, and then the series as the whole series.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's hard to look at one movie and say, oh, cinematography cinematography was different, or it was done so different in this movie.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: It should have been done more like this one from 10 years ago.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: If they want to be Marvel, they have to be Marvel.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, time's gonna change, you know, they're gonna find new ways to do it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone wants their own artistic spin.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: I say as long as the storyline stays consistent, as long as they stay true to the actual characters and they're not taking too many liberties there from the you know the original stories, then they'll keep fans and they'll keep they'll keep people's attention.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that that Star Wars, of course, there's been uh two seasons of The Mandalorian, and I'm hoping that Star Wars gets up to the level on Disney Plus that uh that the Marvel stuff is getting because man, they've got some cool stuff coming down down the line, and Star Wars has kind of taken a beating the last few years.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of people hated the less Jedi.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of liked it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um number nine, we probably shouldn't even talk about the last joke or Rise of Skywalker.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but man, I I also think at the same time, as a creative person, how hard would that be to be tasked with creating something in the Star Wars universe?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: How much pressure is that?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not I'm not sure anything that you create could really be something good enough to meet everybody's expectations.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds impossible.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I think that Jean Favreau and uh oh my gosh, it just blinked on his name.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh Dave Dave Falone, yes.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how do you say his last name?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think that uh, and this is so important, and this goes right back to writing and being an author as well.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: They are such fans that they still geek out over those things.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you watch the behind the scenes of The Mandalorian, they're talking about how they took these abstract characters because they used to love it, you know, they love Star Wars and they love, you know, they were into all that nerdy stuff about all the background and these side characters, and that's what made the Mandalorian such a big deal, you know, because they took these other characters and they made a great story out of it because they're fans and geeks of the original Star Wars.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I guess I relate that to books because if you're not geeking out over your own books sometimes, then how are you gonna stay true to your own writing, your own characters and story?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know sometimes I read my book and I'm like, why isn't there a fandom I can talk to?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because I just freaked out about this part.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Caitlin, you wrote it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, TK, you wrote this.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, yeah, but I'm freaking out about what's gonna happen next and there's no one to talk to.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, staying, staying, or I guess working on a project where you're such a big fan of it and you remember what that feeling is, and you remember what, or you can, you know, analyze what made it so wonderful.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That is what helps you do it better and just as good when you go to make the next thing.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a little worried about all these spin-off series with Star Wars, you know.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, uh, let's see, they have got the Boba Fett story coming out, a trailer's just released for that one.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: They've got um, I want to say, oh my gosh, I'm blanking in Ahsoka.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Ahsoka series.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're doing these other spin-offs, and I just I hope they're as true as what The Mandalorian was.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why people love the Mandalorian, was because it was that nostalgic that was that you know, back to the original roots of Star Wars.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I know these are spin-offs from other, you know, animated series, and they're now putting it into real life con context, but I think as long as they stay true to that feeling and you know the the essence of what Star Wars is, then it'll be just as good.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny to hear you say that you're off on Star Wars.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can it's kind of sad, really, because I'm I'm like a middle-aged guy who still really, really loves Star Wars.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not sad.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's this guy on on YouTube whose name is Mike Zero, you've probably heard of him, who does all these Star Wars analysis videos.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like whenever they were doing the new uh sequel trilogy, I would watch this guy every time he put out a video, you know.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was a photo captured on set, and we're gonna do a breakdown of it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so yes, my son would walk, he's 17 now, but he would walk in and be like, Dad, seriously, like really well.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're gonna geek out about something.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: My justification was hey, I could be out playing golf or buying sports cars.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Star Wars is relatively harmless.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and again, it's that fandom, it brings people together, and you know, people I think love that some people loved these three Star Wars movies whilst other people hated it, because it gives you a chance to come together and talk about why you hate it or love it and get into those debates.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it's almost a community.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: People long for community, they long for interaction.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it provides that these fandoms allow us to come together about something that inspired us and motivated us or hurt us deeply.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's an open space to talk about it and make us feel like we're together with others.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: No matter how old you are.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would love it if you could share any words of wisdom for people who would like to write a novel or write their first book of any kind, but they just haven't pulled the trigger to do that.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things that you've learned along the way as a writer that might help somebody who hasn't yet started that journey?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: No pressure.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like I really shouldn't phrase that quite.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, TK, what are your words of wisdom?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's conjure up your inner Obi-Wan Kenobi.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I am a master Jedi.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was always told that writing the book was the hardest part.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I didn't find that to be true because I was just so excited to write the story.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I have definitely learned that that's not the case for everybody.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, whatever stage you're at, keep going.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you have an idea, but you're scared about even trying it, keep going.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing that I hear people say all the time that is so true is your story needs to be heard.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it sounds just like this other person's story, that's okay.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Cause you're gonna tell it from such a different perspective and in such a different way that it's still worth telling.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Someone is gonna read that or hear about it and absolutely eat it up.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna want it.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's the biggest, really, it's the uh imposter syndrome that stops people the most from starting the book or from finishing it.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: But do it.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it's a bad book, that's okay because you just learned how to make a better book.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I will say that I am a little embarrassed by my first book still.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I I look at it and I'm like, ooh, like I've become such a better writer since then, but I never would have if I didn't write that first book.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: If I hadn't written it, I never would have learned from the bad things that I did or the things I didn't like to write a better book in book two and then book three.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: My fourth book that I just released, it's my favorite because I think it's my best writing.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I never would have gotten there if I didn't write the other three.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: So do it, write it.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if if you're telling your own story, don't put the pressure on yourself to publish it or share it with others.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Just start by writing it and see it as a time of self-reflection and to learn from, and then decide later what you want to do.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was once told that if you're writing an emotional email or mostly an email, if you have an emotional conversation to have with someone, a tough conversation, write the email and then sit on it for 24 hours before deciding if you want to send it or not.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Good advice.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because it gives you time to process.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think books are the same way.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Write it, especially with the imposter syndrome and the, you know, the self-critiquing, write it and then just wait.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Think about it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like you want to put it out into the world?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like you want to share it with others?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: You'll know once it's written.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're just struggling with writing in general and finishing the book, you know, find those things that inspire you.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Find your good triggers.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like for me, I know when it's dark out, I write better because I feel like, okay, it's the end of the day or beginning of the day, and this is my time to focus.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I write better when it's dark, which is funny because I do what they call writing in the dark.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of ironic.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I write better in cold seasons because I like being cozied up in the fire.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like I have to be outside doing things.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: I edit better in the summer because I want to be out in the sunshine reading a book.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: So find those little things that work better for you, that work best, and then latch onto them in order to help yourself keep going.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is great advice.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really good advice.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I love helping people write.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's that?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love helping people write.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, which I yeah, I that is it's so cool.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that you can do to help people write, I think is a good thing.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, my final question here.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So at this stage of your writing journey, actually, my second to final question.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I lied.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's all right.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: At this stage of your journey, you've got several books out there.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: What scares you as an author?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think what scares me most is becoming stagnant.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I want my stories to be read.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they can help people.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I said at the beginning, like I my goal is to help people face life dragons, life's dragons on the page before they find them in reality.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to help learn how to face life's toughest moments through a book so that you're equipped and you know how to handle it when real life hits.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so my biggest fear is becoming stagnant where I'm writing books and it's just the same 10 people reading them all the time.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as much as, you know, it'd be great to make money off my books.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm mostly just scared that I'm gonna write these amazing stories that no one's gonna get a chance to read just because they don't know about them or I don't have the exposure.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really know that people are gonna read my books and think that they suck.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna give me a one-star review and say this is terrible, you know, what a what a horrible writer.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's bound to happen.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but my biggest fear really is just people not even knowing that these books are out there and not being able to experience this world because I geek out.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a fandom of my own books.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like I get so excited about these characters, what they're going through and what's gonna happen.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just I want to make sure that it's shared with people that they have the opportunity to join the adventure.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's a such a great wrap-up to this.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you being on the show.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: This has been really, really fun.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that Jim connected us and I appreciate your words of wisdom.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And man, there's there's just again a lot of a lot of really cool stuff that you shared.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, thank you, Ken.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being on the show helps me, you know, fight that big fear of mine and you know, hopefully reach some new people and help share my stories.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I appreciate it and what you're doing, helping encourage people to write daily.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to to get into those habits and to share their stories.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's important and it's hard.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to keep going.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you are, I'm sure, a big motivator to a lot of people.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I hope so.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and at the very least, it encourages me.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if that's all that ever comes of this, then it will have been worth it.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh last thing is where can readers find out more about you and your books and all the stuff that you're doing.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my main hub of information is all at tkjonsonbooks.com.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh at that website, you have links to read teaser chapters, sample chapters from each of my books.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can get a synopsis, you can go buy the books, you can see a little bit more about my writing and advice and just tons of stuff.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, social media.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I do just fun little posts about reading, about writing, about books, about the struggles of being an author.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: So hit me up on social media, TK Johnson author, and uh we can just have fun on there together too.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the main hub is at the website.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, TK, thanks again.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: It has been an absolute pleasure, and we've got to do this again sometime.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you so much, Kent.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had an absolute blast geeking out over Star Wars, talking about storytelling, and of course, talking about slaying the dragons that hold us back from achieving our writing dreams.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had to pick one takeaway from this episode, I would say it's this you have to conquer fear.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have to slay the dragon.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever's holding you back, whatever you feel like is keeping you from doing what you want as a writer, you just got to take it a day at a time and you got to go after it, and you you just have to do it.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such an important topic, and this is such an important conversation because a lot of writers out there, including you, you are so gifted, you're so talented, you have so much to offer.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: But so many times we just let that issue of self-confidence and of fear hold us back from what we really, really want to do.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was thinking, how is it that we actually slay a dragon?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it really happens in the same way that we see it in movies a lot of times.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, when we see, you know, uh like a fantasy type of movie and you have this hero who has to slay some dragon or a beast, they do it with with like this one heroic move of uh you know, jumping up and they they plunge their sword into the heart of the beast and they take it down.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in real life it doesn't really happen like that.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we slay dragons not by one huge heroic act.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we slay dragons by a thousand tiny cuts.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Every day we go out there and we we stab that dragon once more, and over a period of time, if we stab that dragon enough, then the dragon is slayed.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: The dragon is killed because we've we've stabbed it consistently.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea this episode was gonna go down this dark pathway, just FYI, in my my in my own mind.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but for some reason it it has gone there.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta go out there and you gotta you've gotta attack that dragon every single day.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you attack the dragon enough times, it's going to be killed, it's going to fall.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you may want to listen to this episode every once in a while just to just to again get reinspired by TK's wisdom and um and her passion for conquering those dragons that hold us back from achieving our dreams.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: This was so much fun again, and I want to thank TK for taking the time to be a guest on this episode.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I want to encourage you to check out her website, which is TK JohnsonBooks.com, as well as her social media links.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's all in the show notes.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And make sure and check out her books also.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're really going to enjoy those if you like young adult fantasy.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really good stuff.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasting success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: For years, I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I can never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.