Latest / UK Column Radio / Right Said Fred— Said Right Things

Transcript

Right Said Fred— Said Right Things · UK Column Radio

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: My name is Jerm.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: This is Jerm Warfare. The Battle of Ideas. Wow, it's
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: been a long time. I don't know, three years maybe?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Right said, Fred. Thank you for joining me in the trenches.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, last time we spoke, I think we were still
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: in the middle of the agreed madness, and.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: That's depleted somewhat. Things are getting back to normal now. Yeah,
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: things are feeling a little bit more sane now.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Are you certain about that?
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: Well, yes. Yes. I said normal. I shouldn't have said normal. Okay.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: One of it was there's been an awakening to a
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: degree from certain areas. And the knock-on effect that a
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: lot of us talked about after the lockdown, which would
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: be things like digital ID and more authoritarian approach, stuff
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: like that, that has come to fruition. uh, we're not
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: for someone that tried to push that agenda. And so
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: from that point of view, I think there is, there is,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: there is an awakening. Um, it's still, it's still sporadic
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: and there's still a lot of people out there. We've got,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: we've got a neighbor who's in the entertainment industry and
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: he's religiously reads the garden. And this is the sky
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: news because he thinks, yes, he thinks they are the
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: arbiters of truth. And, um, And we talked to him
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: and we mentioned, you know, the World Economic Forum or
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: George Soros.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: Or people like that. And he hasn't got a clue
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: who we're talking about.
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: Not a clue.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: It's so funny, though.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: You would think people by now would know who they are.
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: No, a lot of people don't know. People who only
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: look at the mainstream news would never know.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: No.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: If you want to find out about, you know, Ukraine
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: and Russia or the Middle East or Gaza or... digital ID,
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: facial recognition, anything basically, do not go to the mainstream media.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: It's just not reliable. So you're much better off searching
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: these places.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Out for yourself.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's good just to cherry pick and, you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: just to get, not cherry pick, but just get your
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: information from different places and do your own, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: listening to mainstream media, then listen to something else and
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: then say, well, why do I think this? And I just,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: just different sources, really, you know.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It's very important, isn't it? Yeah, it's very important to triangulate.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: It is very important to triangulate, yes.
• 2:55
  Speaker 5: We've often said if people had cameras in their phones
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: in 1914, the call-up rate would have been appalling because
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: people would have been taking pictures of the trenches and
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: people would have thought, well, I'm not going there.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, selfie with trench foot.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Selfie with trench foot, yes.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, not good.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: No, so I think for years now, the press and
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: the mainstream media in the West has had a pretty
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: free run And they don't like what's happening. They don't
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: like the fact that their numbers are decreasing daily.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, a lot of online creators, content creators are
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: outperforming mainstream. You know, a lot of them. It's not
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: just one or two now. People just use the site,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: maybe Joe Rogan or whoever. But now it's a lot
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: of people. The numbers are there for people to see.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Just quickly, before we continue, for those listening who don't,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: are wondering why we keep hearing so many aeroplanes. Is
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: it just because you guys are close to the airport?
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: It's fine.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: It's weird, you know. It changes from day to day.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: And it changes on the cloud cover.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, so today's particularly noisy, actually. I don't normally
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: do that. I tell you what, I could close the door.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: We're actually quite close to the castle. We're actually quite
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: close to Windsor Castle. And one of the stories... Does
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: anybody know a carpenter? Watch out. Yeah, one of the
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: stories about the castle is if the monarch is in
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: the castle, they're not allowed to fly over. That's what
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: we've been told. I did not know that. Yes, I
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: think it's in case they empty the latrine as they
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: fly over.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Which would be my choice, obviously. Yeah, obviously, you're living
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: so close to the castle. We know lots of people
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: who work and will live within the castle grounds. There
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: are lots of stories bouncing around. How true they are,
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You hear all sorts of stories.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: In Windsor, you hear all sorts of stories about secret
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: tunnels that go between the village of Windsor and the
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: castle itself. so that back in the day they could
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: get out of the castle without being seen if they
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: had some kind of illicit.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's fairly well documented, aren't they?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I did an interview with an amazing researcher, historian by
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: the name of Frances Lieder. Frances Lieder, sorry. And she's
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: written extensively on a group called the Black Nobility, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: she argues that the royal family, the British royal family,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: are part of the Black Nobility.
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: They.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: A group of bloodlines that have existed since the Roman Empire.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: And they have immense amounts of power, even though the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: power might be indirect.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Okay. So what does that mean, black nobility? We're talking
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: about skin color?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: Black as in... Black as in.
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: Hidden.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Hidden, yes, correct.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: Oh, I see.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Sorry, my mistake.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I thought.
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: We were talking about something out of Africa.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Black nobility in Africa. Yeah, so black nobility in Africa
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: might be different.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: I think so too. Exactly.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: I was just saying, so yeah, the hidden hand is
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: what we're talking about.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Very, very interesting. I mean, I find it remarkably persuasive.
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's more awareness now over here of what's loosely
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: termed the blob. when people use the term the blob
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: they mean the establishment of the deep state whatever also.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Isn't it part of like human nature imagine the three
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: of us are.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: All having dinner and yeah and we're all multi multi
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: multi billionaires and i control let's say gas and oil coming.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Out of eastern europe don't control gas.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: And yeah yeah yeah richard is uh you know Richard is.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Mainstream media and you're some.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Sort of political kind of analyst or fundraiser or something.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: And we're all sitting in a room. We would, if
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: we all got on, which presumably we do, we would
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: all conspire, wouldn't we? I'll say to you, look, this
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: is really difficult and I need a hand with this.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Or you'd say, Richard, I need much better press coming
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: out of this project I'm doing. It's what humans do.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: They conspire with each other. They always have done.
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: They always will.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: The trouble is when you get big business and politicians
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: doing it together.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Well, the nonsense always was, it seemed to me, that
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: only one side conspired. That's what is so ridiculous. I mean,
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of talk now going on about the
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: Fabians over here. They've been conspiring since the 1800s. So
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: this idea that it's only people on the.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: On that side, if you like, who are being, you
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: know what I mean? Politicians and governments and influencers and
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: lecturers and bankers, they've all been conspiring for years and
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: years and years.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: But this is the point. Yeah, this is the point.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: People conspire on a daily basis. You even conspire when
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: it comes to shopping. It's just that the term conspiracy
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: has been weaponized so much so that people are even
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: scared to say it. I don't think it's anything to
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: be scared of. But I think the problem is that
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: it's been caricatured. So when people say conspiracy or conspiracy theory,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the image that gets drawn in your mind is six
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: guys around a table in a smoky room plotting something evil.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: It isn't like that necessarily.
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: Not at all.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: And also you have stupid images like the tinfoil hat
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: and it's all a bit painful. But I personally see
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: very little of that now. The evidence, like the recent
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Fauci thing.
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: The unravelling of what was the truth.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: 111 times.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Is it true that even though he's been pardoned, he
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: can be imprisoned every year? For one year, every time
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: he pleads the fifth. Yeah, I read that on some
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: sort of fairly reliable source on, what was it, some
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: senator was talking. And he said that you can get
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: a year of incarceration for every time you incite the fifth.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: on the subject that is pertinent to the inquiry. I
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: don't know how true that is. I don't know.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: If you question Fauci, you question the science.
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: Yes, you do.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: I am the sole source. He is the sole source.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: He will get clean away with it. Yeah, but his
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: mate has this. He's number two. He's already been done,
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: isn't he? I think he's already been charged. Some guy
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: who was his advisor has been charged with or has
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: admitted to hiding evidence.
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Yes, seriously.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Well, if you can't get number one, then you go
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: for number two.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you do.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: You get low-hanging fruit. Yeah, I mean, it's all a bit.
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: That's right. What I thought was interesting during that whole
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: period was that gradually, what was interesting about the whole
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: COVID thing is that gradually, and particularly now, people are
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: beginning to wake up to the fact that the people
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: in power do not always have your best interests at heart.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: I think many people generally believe that they did. I
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: think our father was cynical, but I think at the
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: bottom end, the basic belief system was that we were
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: all on the same side. We might disagree about defence
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: on spending or welfare or whatever it is, or taxation,
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: but fundamentally we were all on the same side. I
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: don't think people believed that anymore.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: I think we've we have had a pretty fast descent
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: into a low-trust society. I always felt it was quite
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: a high-trust society. You know, probably, when did it start?
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: I would say maybe Trump's first term or Brexit or
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: it all seemed to start unraveling around then. Maybe it
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: happened before. Maybe it was 9-11. People may disagree about that.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: I was watching a thing today very quickly about a
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: kidnapping in 1968 in a tiny village in Surrey. And
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: this The boy used to travel 16 miles from school
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: to home every day. And to save money on the fare,
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: the bus fare, he would take the first half of
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: the journey by bus.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: And the second half of the journey, he would hitchhike.
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: Oh, Lord. And back in those days, of course, nobody
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: thought anything of hitchhiking.
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I've hitchhiked. I mean, loads of people have.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: But this kid on this particular day in Surrey in
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: 1968 was hitchhiking. A car stopped, picked him up, and
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: he was never seen again. So this trust issue... has
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: actually been going on for those people in that little village.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: That was an extremely unusual event because they all trusted
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: each other. They all felt they knew each other. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: suddenly the big bad world breaks into their home, if
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: you like. So I think it's always been there, but
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: I think it's now magnified beyond belief.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: When we were on holiday, when we were kids, I
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: was probably about.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: 12 and Fred was 9, something like that. Mum and
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: Dad wanted to go away to a nightclub because they
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: were much younger at the time. So that we were
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: on holiday. So they put us in the charge of
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: our waiter at the hotel. Now, we'd only known the
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: waiter for about three nights. You would never do that now.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: Put your two children in the charge of a Spanish
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: waiter that you'd only known for two nights. But Mum
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: and Dad didn't think twice. Raimondo was lovely. We had
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: a lovely time down by the beach. But now you
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: wouldn't even consider that. You wouldn't do it. you would
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: believe that given the fact that we live, as Fred said,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: in a low-trust society, that this would not be a
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: safe way of leaving your children.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: What do you think is better, a high-trust society or
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a low-trust society? And let me preface that. So you
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: guys live in the UK, which is effectively a first-world country,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: although I guess many would argue that, but let's just
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: use that as the base. And, you know, most things work.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: I live in Africa, so there's a very severe contrast
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: between our countries. So I would argue that I live
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: in a very low trust society. If you look at
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the COVID jab, I think less than 2% of the
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: South African population actually took it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: It depends who we're trusting. It's difficult, isn't it?
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: I think if we have a firm belief in the
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: well-meaning nature of the people in power, and the people
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: we are trusting, like the police or the courts or whatever,
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: the politicians, whatever, then I think it's good to be
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: in a fairly high-trust society. But I understand what you're saying.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: When you no longer believe that the people in the
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: upper levels are on your side or trustworthy or honest,
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: being a low-trust society is absolutely essential. Yeah.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: This is what you're saying. Yeah.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, it comes with pros and cons.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: It does. It does.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, what was interesting, I don't want to talk
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: about COVID, I'm sick of the COVID conversation. But what
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: was interesting with just before COVID and the lockdown, I
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: think there had been a poll based on the trust
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and faith people had in politicians. I think it was 2019,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I think. And it was the lowest.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: We trusted our politicians lower than we ever had done
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: in previous polls.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: But then immediately the lockdown kicked in and then vaccines.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: People took health advice from known liars, from people who
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: clearly shouldn't be trusted, and from doctors that were handpicked
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: by those very same politicians.
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: It was odd.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: I found the whole thing that there was a big shift.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: And the other thing that surprised me in the music industry, the.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Music industry predominantly tends to be politically left of centre overall.
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: It leans left. And so you had.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: The take-up from musicians taking the jab was very high.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know what percent she is, but I think
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: I'm well... Entertainment generally.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I would think it's up in the 80s.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: It's very high. We meet very few musicians who haven't
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: had the jab. And what was weird is they were
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: these left-leaning musicians people, this left-leaning industry, taking health advice
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: from someone who's clearly right of centre like Boris Johnson.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: You'd think there would have been.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Some low trust, some sort of cynicism, some sort of like, well,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: we know this guy, we don't like this guy, we
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: don't trust this guy, maybe we.
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: Should just do a bit of homework and a bit
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: of research.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: But they didn't.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: They didn't.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: They just did what they were told.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Also, you had this whole thing where you, you know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: a lot of bands, their image was sticking it to
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: the man. It was all about rage against the machine.
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: It was all that, you know. But when push came
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: to shove, they didn't stick it to the man in
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: the way they originally intended. They stuck it to the
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: man in a completely different way.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: They stuck it in the man.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: They stuck it in.
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: The man, exactly. And also the other thing about pop,
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: which is really weird, I think, is if you go
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: back into the 60s, you had people like Joan Baez
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: and Bob Dylan and Country on the Fish, all those
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: people talking about politics, talking about not trusting... not trusting
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: the man, actually, not trusting the narrative, the story. And
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: pop was actually at the centre then, I think, of
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: the cultural issues that were going on at the time.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: And now pop music is, there's a movie some years
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: ago where pop music was just like adverts. It was
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: just like adverts between whatever the music was. Total Recall? No,
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: it wasn't Total Recall. It was something else with that
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: black guy that was in prison for tax. Wesley Snipes?
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Wesley Snipes, yeah. It was that movie, yeah. Anyway, but
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: that was the idea.
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: So pop had lost its teeth completely and was just
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: become this vanilla sort of background lift noise that didn't
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: really mean anything anymore. And it's, do you know what
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: I mean? So I think that in a way, when
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: we had the Bob Villan at Glastonbury, And that was
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: a very depressing attempt to make pop music or contemporary
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: music relevant, if you like. But actually what it was,
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: it was just dividing people. It was just an angry
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: outburst of somebody who didn't really know what he was
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: talking about. So it is a bit strange the way
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: that's gone. And going back to the trust thing, my
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: partner who died some years ago from HIV, he was
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: In the early days, he was taking a lot of
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: drugs that were developed by Fauci, AZT, stuff like that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: And it never crossed our minds or my mind that
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: these doctors at that time weren't doing their absolute level
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: best to find a treatment. It never crossed my mind.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: I trusted them completely. And now, of course, with hindsight,
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: you realize actually these people were not worthy of that
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: trust that I was placing in them. No, AZT had very,
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: very mixed results with different people. What saved my partner
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: was what they call triple therapy, which was when they
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: started combination therapy between lots of different drugs. And that
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: made a huge difference at the time to him. But
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: what was interesting about that for me was when I
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: look back, it never crossed my mind. I was looking
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: at all these tablets and all the options open to
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: people who were HIV positive. And it never crossed my
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: mind for a second that these people developing these drugs
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: didn't have our best interests at heart.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm asking because, yeah, I'm asking because
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: South Africa kind of was the epicenter of, of AZT
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: mass testing. And I saw pretty much no net benefits
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: at all. In actual fact, I saw a lot of
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: people getting very, very sick and dying. Cause I mean,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: it's a chemotherapy ultimately. I mean, I mean, in my belief,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it's what killed Freddie Mercury.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: Right. Yes.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: Well, I think, Back in the day, the ignorance around
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: AIDS and HIV was profound and people didn't really, people
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: that pretended they knew what it was didn't really know
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: what it was. People were unsure as to how it
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: was contracted. The medication, I mean, I remember with my partner,
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: the triple therapy only really came in towards the, not
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: towards the end, but when we were two thirds into it.
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: And that made a huge difference. But I think in
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: the very early days when AZT was the drug to
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: go to. And again, as Fred was saying, people just
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: trusted these doctors. They trusted. You put on a white
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: coat and suddenly you trust them, you know.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: But trust the science. Trust the experts.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Trust the science.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: People forget now, but there was a time when in
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: the very early 80s, they thought HIV was airborne.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: That was floated for a while.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Fauci himself said that, yeah, Fauci said that you can
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: pick it up from a table countertop.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, and then the role the mainstream media played
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: and the role the government played at the time, certainly
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: in the UK, was just disgraceful. We had this big tombstone.
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: On TV. Don't die of ignorance.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: Don't kill granny, don't die of ignorance.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: The whole thing with HIV was once you are HIV positive,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: that's a death sentence. That's how it was sold. That
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: was the idea. And it was the gay plague. That
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: was a pretty common expression in.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: The early 80s. And then obviously it started to affect
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: the straight community and the game changed considerably. But initially
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: the same scare tactics used in the early 80s were
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: repeated during the last few years.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, we remember driving into London and there were
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: huge posters during the COVID thing. Don't kill granny and...
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: Look into my eyes. I mean, it really was. The
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: state was absolutely disgraceful. And so too was the media, actually.
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: The media was appalling. Didn't make any attempt to really
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: do any forensic reporting at all.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I've got an amazing book here called Inventing the AIDS
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Virus by Peter Duesberg. I don't know if you've seen
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: that book. Oh, I know Peter Duesberg. Yeah, and he
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: was on Rogan back in the day before Rogan was
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: on Spotify. I don't think you would have a guest
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: like that now.
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I remember walking into a pub during the
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: period and this ridiculous girl behind the counter pointed, put
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: this PCR thing on my forehead to test my temperature.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: And I said, you know, this is just nonsense. You
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: know that it's all nonsense. And she said, no, it's not.
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: It says it works on the packet. That was her position.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: It says on the packet it works, so it must
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: be right. And so people just weren't thinking. They weren't
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: thinking for themselves. That was the most depressing thing. We
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: grew up in a culture where we think we're all
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: independent-minded and we analyze things and we're rational and logical. Actually,
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: that's what that showed. was that there was people incredibly
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: susceptible to fear, panic, and ignorance, and gullibility, actually. And
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: when you have people like Paul McCartney and Elton John
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: rattling on about take the jab, be cool, and all
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: that stuff, that's when I started to realize these people
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: are not what you think they are.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I had Pete Parada on my show. Pete was the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: drummer of Offspring.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: Oh, right.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: And Offspring fired him because he refused the jab.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And I thought, how un-punk rock is that? And here,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: you two guys are sort of pop icons, and you're
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: more punk rock than the punk rock guys.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: Well, it was.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: They set the bar very low, didn't they?
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Punk rock thing, a bit like Britpop in a way,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: a lot of movements. It's a lot of PR over...
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: It's also... A lot of style over content. I'm not
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: saying the punk thing didn't exist.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying that. But... It was used.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: For the purposes of propaganda and hype and there was
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of sort of chest beating and not a
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: great deal of substance.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: Do you know a guy called Winston Marshall? know that name?
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: Winston Marshall? Yeah. We were talking to him the other day,
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: and what was interesting about that, this was nothing to
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: do with COVID, nothing to do with anything else, but
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: he was basically removed from Munford and Sons. Or he left.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: That's right. I actually spoke to him. I spoke to him.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: You did, yes. Really nice guy. By virtue of him
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: reading a book. So this was nothing to do. It's
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: a mindset about anybody that disagrees with the narrative. That's
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: what it is. Whether it's whether it's COVID, whether it's HIV,
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: whether it's, you know, digital ID, free speech, whatever it is,
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: people on the left, it seems to me, generally speaking,
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: tend to be much more inclined to de-platform and to
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: silence people. When I was a kid, it was all BNP.
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: Those were the people to fear. It was the people
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: on the far right that were the problem. Now it
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: seems you've got people on the left who are the problem.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is the head-scratcher. This is really
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: the head-scratcher because what is wrong... Sorry, go on.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: It's weird how conversations now are just being de-platformed.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: They're just being stopped mid-sentence. I mean, you can't have...
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: What's weird, we seem to have developed this sort of
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: the we, but there seems to be this new movement
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: on the far left that is anti-everything that the left
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: used to be. The far left, like the far right,
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: are obsessed with skin colour. I think the far left
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: and the far right have far too much in common,
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: which is why they hate each other. But they are authoritarian.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: They want to silence you. They're intolerant.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: It's more of a cult, really, than seemingly more of
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: a cult, than just the ability to speak your mind.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: Well, we got into trouble. Well, I wouldn't say trouble.
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: We got into a fracas with some of the people
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: in the press when we went to a demonstration right
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: at the very beginning.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I remember that.
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and what was weird about that was we went
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: to the demonstration, not because we were motivated by the demonstration,
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: the cause of the demo, if you like. We just
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: wanted to go and see exactly what a demonstration was like,
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: because I'd never been on one. But just the very
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: fact that we were there turned into a bit of
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: a thing. And it was a bit like the Southport thing,
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: when those girls were murdered in Southport, and that idiot
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: Starmer referred to everybody that had a problem with that
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: as far-right thugs.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: You know, this is what we were dealing with. And
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: that part of the left, maybe they're all Fabians, I
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: don't know what they are, but they are incredibly dismissive
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: of ordinary people's fears and worries.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: And I don't understand that.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: If you're representing the people, even if you think their
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: fears are unfounded, you need to address them. You need
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: to give them the....
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing that breaks my brain. What is
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: wrong with having different opinions? well it's nothing everything now
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: apparently yeah.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Everything when we were growing up we served with bands
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: and um we all sorts i mean we had we
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: if i think of the people we played with their their.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Politics in a way it was almost it was it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Didn't matter because they could be far left not really
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: far right back in the 70s we never talked about
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: it no it wasn't if someone if someone was had
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: a particular view go that's your view and That was it.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: You know, it just, it wasn't ever an issue.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Certainly, you certainly wouldn't sack someone from a band back
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: then for their views.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: Or reading a book.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Or for reading a book.
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: It was, you know. It's mad. I mean, I think
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: if you're of a generation like us, where differences of
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: opinion were common, then I think, and it wasn't an issue,
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: it has been, come a complete surprise, I think, to
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: realise that disagreeing with somebody actually carries an enormous amount.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Of, an enormous problem for some people.
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: We've had gigs cancelled, we've had a film cancelled, we've
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: had adverts cancelled, you know. It's a lot easier now,
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: I think, and people, and we've done quite a few
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: festivals recently, and the public, the punters, have been fantastic.
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: They've been really, really cool. And what I think is interesting,
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: for me, is that if you leave people be, Ordinary people,
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: they will just get on. They will just get on.
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: Politicians have investment in division. That's what they do. All
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: their power comes from division and black hat, white hat.
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: That's what they are. If you take politicians out of
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: the equation, ordinary people will get on.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: What's quite funny is how this could be on both
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: sides of the argument because we were sitting having a
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: coffee about two years ago And this couple sat down
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: next to us, and then they recognized us, and, oh,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: you talked about the marches and all this sort of thing.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: And then this lady leaned across, and she said, obviously,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: you're flat earthers, right? So I said, I get that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I get that too.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: So I said, actually not. Actually not.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: And she looked at us like, you're too stupid to
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: talk to.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: You don't think the earth is flat. Maybe it is.
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: I don't know. And I don't really care either way.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: How does it affect us? It's an argument I couldn't
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: care less about. Exactly.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: But anyway, so this lady said, you're not flat earthers.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: So we said, no. So she literally rolled her eyes.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: She looked at her husband and.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: You know, these two lunatics. And they got up, they
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: walked off. So that intolerance is everywhere. We suddenly didn't
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: step up to what they thought we should think. And
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: they just walked off, yeah.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: One of the great things about doing the demos was
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: some of the people you meet. I mean, some of
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: the people we met are absolutely so out there. They
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: are so bonkers. There was one woman who had a
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: big placard which said, the queen eats babies. That was
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: one player. We asked for photographic evidence, but she didn't have.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Any.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: Another woman said she had a placard with a phone
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: number on it. She said, if you phone this number,
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: you'll get free electricity for the rest of your life.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: I like it. I like that. I like people who
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: are just standing outside the ring.
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's good for people just to say what they think.
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: As long as it's not inciting violence, you know, being
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: rude to people. People will be offended by everything now,
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: so that's not being offended. And I defend their right
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: to be offended.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: That's my position. But I just enjoy some of the protests,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: and I don't go so much now.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: My knees are great. But... I don't go as much
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: as I used to because sometimes you just go through phases,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: don't you? But we met a lot of lovely, lovely
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: people on those marches. And we still do in the streets.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: People still come up to us almost on a daily
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: basis and we chit-chat about something. And you meet some very,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: very interesting people. I really like that.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: There was a good thing by Ricky Gervais the other
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: day talking about a fence, giving a fence. And he
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: was right. He said a fence is only taken.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: You can't give it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: You can't give it.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: No.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: You either take a fence or you don't. That's all
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: it is. And the people who are offended are people
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: who just like taking offence. And that's a major difference.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: People don't necessarily go out to intending to give offence,
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: but if they decide to do that, it's down to
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: the people listening as to whether they take it or
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: they don't. And if they take it and they don't
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: like it, they walk out, as opposed to trying to
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: close down the theatre.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Australian comedian Steve Hughes adds to that
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: by saying.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: I like Steve Hughes. Yeah, yeah, he used to be
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: on my show. He should never have cut his hair,
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: can you tell him?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks less metal now.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because for me, when I first saw him, and
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: he looked really, because he was a drummer, wasn't he,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: in a metal band, I think. Yeah, he was a musician.
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: He was a musician. And when I first saw him,
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: what was great about his image, and if I'd been
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: a manager, I would have said, keep the long hair,
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: because you don't look anything like any other comedian. Do
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean? As an image, it was
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: a very fresh image for a comedian. So when he
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: cut his hair, I remember thinking, oh, no, don't do that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: And you had lovely hair.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: I used to tell that really good joke about being offended.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Didn't I?
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: That's what I was referencing, yeah.
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: On the TV and you find the police. I find
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: that offensive. There's five of them. I'm offended. I really
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: like Steve Hughes. He was very, very funny.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he says, so you're offended, so what? Nothing happens.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: You're not going to get empathy.
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Don't be offended.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: Exactly.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: I'm offended all the time, but I hear all the radio.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: Well, not the radio. This is the radio, but.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: You know, boy bands have offended me for the last
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: 35 years.
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, some music is very, very offensive, but you just
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: have to not listen to it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Flat Earthers earlier. I absolutely love flat earthers.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I love chatting to... I don't think earth is flat. Look,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I don't buy into the official NASA story, right? I
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: don't know what I buy into, but I don't think
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: earth is necessarily flat, right? But I will say that
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I've had the best conversations with flat earthers because they're
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: on the periphery. And I like people who are on
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: the periphery because they get my creative juices flowing.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: And why can't they.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: If they want to think it's flat.
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: Let them. Also, the only question I've got, I don't
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: know whether they've met, but to anybody who thinks the
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: Earth is round, what holds the water there? Well, I
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: don't know. Don't you ask him. I mean, all the
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: whales and all the fish, you know, and I don't
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: understand that. I can understand the water at the top,
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: but how does it, I don't know. I would need
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: Richard Feynman to explain.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: It to me. And let's be honest. When you fly
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: in an airplane and you look out the window, that
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: horizon does look pretty flat, right?
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: It does look pretty flat. But although I have to say,
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: if you go high enough, you see the curve.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Have you been higher than that?
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, you have.
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: We've been very high.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Hold on, is that a metaphor? It's a metaphor.
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: I think Concorde used to fly at 60,000 feet, about
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: twice as high as a normal airline. Yeah, we did
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: Concorde once.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: And you do see a curve. Now, The thing is,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: the one that we live in now, I don't know
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: what I'm looking at half the time.
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: It could be AI.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: Seriously, good.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: A simulation.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, people get really upset with me sometimes because I
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: make a mistake. I'll post something and it turns out
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: to be AI, but it's just social media. It's not
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: real life.
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: Nobody's died.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Nobody's... you know, being hurt.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: So I just delete it and I move on.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: But they get, they really feel the need to have
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: a go.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: You moron.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: You, you know, you're so stupid.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: Why did you make a mistake, man? I mean, I've
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: had to come off X and Facebook because I just
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: got so tired of all the negative hatred. It's so boring,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: you know. I can't tell you how many times I
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: was called a cockwomble. Yeah. I can't get it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Is that a bad thing?
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: I don't even know. Yeah, I was a cock bumble, apparently.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: I don't know what it is. But, and I just, actually,
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: it's bad for my vibe. It's just bad for, you know...
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: The minute you wake up, you look at the screen
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: and it's just people beating each other up in Belfast
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: or some Islamic nutter cutting somebody's head off or whatever.
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: I don't need it in my life. I really don't
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: need it.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: And also the amount of clickbait stuff out there, the
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: amount of stuff that's set up.
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: And also it depends on your algorithms. There was this
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: guy squeezing a spot. And I watched it for about
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: 10 seconds. Suddenly, my whole timeline.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: Spot-squeezing. Pimple poppers and blackhead removal.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: And the other time we were talking, just literally two
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: days ago, we were talking about luggage because we may
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: change some luggage when we're touring.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: A really boring conversation. And I went on Facebook.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: I've just got backpacks.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: All I've got is one backpack after the next, isn't it?
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: I was like, shut up. I'm a bit like, I'm
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: a Poirot fan. I really like Hercule Poirot and that
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: whole Agatha Christie thing. And so I clicked on a
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: couple of documentaries about the making of the series. And
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: now all I get, all I get is Poirot. As
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: you say, over and over and over and over. I mean,
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: David Suchet is brilliant, but there is a limit to
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: how many I need to watch.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Have you heard about that seven-degree theory when it comes
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: to algorithms? I might have it a bit wrong now.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Six degrees of separation?
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: Do you mean that?
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: No, no.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Well, it's similar. So it's something along the lines of,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: and I must look it up, but it's something along
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: the lines of no matter what discussion you have online,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: you are only seven talking points away from discussing Hitler.
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: That is no doubt I think it's less let's say
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: I'm going to go and look up right said Fred's
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: greatest hits on YouTube and just a few videos later
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: I'm watching a speech by Hitler because of the algorithms
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: who knows how that happened.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: It's extraordinary we did a when we were doing this
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: movie we were looking at titles for a sub plot
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: within the movie And what three words do you need
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: in the title of a movie to get people to
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: watch it? And you need the word sexy. You need
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: the word sexy, shark, and Hitler. So we thought of
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: a sexy Hitler shark, a shark with a little moustache,
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: you know, who's very sexy. But, yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've got to say, if I was Adolf.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Hitler, Greatest marketing campaign in history.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you what's really good fun.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: If you've got a socialist mate, you tell him that
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: fascism always comes from the left.
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: There you go. You tell them that Hitler was a socialist.
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: They don't want to know.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: It's really good fun. And then you say, well, it
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: was the National Association of Social Workers.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: What do you mean?
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: In fact, we were in Germany. I actually said that.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: You know, he was part of a socialist movement.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: And they didn't. They didn't actually know what his party
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: was called. And it's always really good fun with anyone
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: who's on the left or sees themselves as an academic left.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: And you mentioned that fascism starts on the left invariably.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: They get very upset.
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: Have you ever seen the house in Wales that looks
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: like Hitler?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: There's a house?
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: There's a house in Wales that looks like Hitler. Really?
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: Because it's got a sloping roof like the hair.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: A black door.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: And a little black door and one window above it.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to look it up.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: Look it up. And there's a cat. And there's a
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: cat that looks like Hitler. Yeah. And funnily enough, we've just... Oh,
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: I've seen that cat. Yes. We both... The cat lives
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: in that house. Yes, exactly.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Wait, and is that cat's name... Wait for it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 7: Hitler.
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: Oh, I see what you did there. You should be
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: on the radio and stuff like that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Or be a dad and make dad jokes.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: What was the song that Kanye West did last year?
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, Hitler was a.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I think it was actually called Heil Hitler. I think
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: it was called that. I remember that. Yes, it was super. Yeah,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, he went straight for the gullet.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: He certainly did. When I was working in a gym,
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: I was listening to the radio and there was a
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: phone-in quiz show. And somebody phoned in to answer the question.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: And the question was, what was Hitler's first name? That
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: was the question. What was Hitler's first name? Lots of
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: silence on the line. Suddenly you heard, was it Heil? Brilliant.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: You can't make it up. But anyway, let's stop talking
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: about that nutter. Oh, yeah.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I want to go back to the
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: music stuff because, I mean, this is part of who
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: you guys are. I mean, are you still censored or cancelled?
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: Well, we had one agency.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: It's rare. It's patchy.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: We did have an agency in the UK, and they
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: won't work with us. They were recommended to us by
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: another band who they work with, and they won't work
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: with us because of our politics, whatever. friggin hell there
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and and the trouble is with going back to we
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: did a couple of chat shows with nigel farage and
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: it was when he wasn't in politics he was after
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: uh he was an mep before he joined reform or
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: started reform and um and he was running he was
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: he was literally the host of um uh points.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: Talking points. Talking points.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: And then he had another TV show. And we went on,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: as many people did, we went on as guests of
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: this show. And then, of course, you know, the idiot
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: left within the music industry thinks that some sort of
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: us being some sort of far-right lunatics. And that's the
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: stupidity you're dealing with. So to answer your question, we
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: come across it very rarely now. There was one agency
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: who said something. They didn't say it to us. They
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: said it to some of us.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: But we've literally now got more offers on the table
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: for for next year than we've had in the last
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: sort of eight years we've put together. So we clearly, yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: and we've actually been, we've been approached by a couple
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: of record labels recently, which is quite interesting as well.
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: Which is a miracle. Which is a miracle. So I
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: think that side of things has very much gone. You'll
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: get it now and again.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: We get it from musicians occasionally still, but they're normally
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: the flag shaggers. who would wave flags on the stages
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: at festivals and those morons, you know. So to answer
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: your question, no, it's mostly gone.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: Also, I think it was a very bad idea when
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: musicians got visibly associated with the COVID jab because that
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: eventually became political. It did, yes. COVID eventually became political
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: because everybody could see the deceit that was going on
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: between some medics and the government and... The fact that
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: it had no long-term data attached to it, it wasn't proven, blah, blah, blah.
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: So when certain celebrities and musicians and entertainers hitched their
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: flag to the COVID jab, it was a dangerous move
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: because not only was it against free speech and freedom
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: to make your own decisions, it was also a political move.
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: And you sided almost by definition with the government and
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: the official narrative.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: We get approached, I won't mention, we get approached by,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: we'd be approached by the three major parties to have
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: conversations about standing in elections.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: And we never would. And I would never align myself
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: with a political party either because they will let you
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: down as sure as eggs are eggs.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: And I don't have that, I'm not affiliated either way.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: I feel pretty politically homeless really.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: But so we've never done that.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Richard was a, Richard was a, What's that noise?
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: Okay, sorry.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: We are, sorry, that threw me. What's that say? Oh,
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: it's gone. Yes, that's right, yeah.
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: So we have been approached, but we never would.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: And I just, I think voicing an opinion and saying
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: what you think is okay sometimes, but I think it's
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: good to try and get a balance because also these
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: artists now who insist on talking about their politics on stage,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: I completely agree with Mick Jagger and what Ricky Gervais
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: said at the awards, which is come on stage, take
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: your little award, say your little speech.
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: And fuck off. I feel that about bands.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: You've been hired to play your songs. Get on, play
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: your silly little songs, wave to the crowd, do your
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: best and then go home.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And also you're... Yeah, I wonder why it's become like that.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it's because... I think some artists genuinely.
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: didn't really think very clearly about what they were doing.
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: What they're actually doing is they're trading their spot on stage,
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: which they've earned through music, for a 10-minute diatribe on politics.
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: And it's a betrayal. In the same way that when
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: Corbyn stood up with Glastonbury, it was a disgraceful thing
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: to do. Not because I disagree, Because bands, he took
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: 20 minutes or whatever it was of stage time away
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: from a band.
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: It's a music festival. It's a music festival.
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: That's what it is.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: And they have tents, don't they? They have discussion tents.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: They have other things. So why wasn't he one of those?
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: He doesn't need the main stage. It should just be
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: back-to-back music.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Let me put a spanner in the works here. Has
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: music ever been neutral? Let's go back to Woodstock. That
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: was the 1960s. And the entire festival was actually a
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: political statement.
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: Yes, it was. That's true. But the bands got on
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: and played, didn't they? I mean, they did.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Ritchie Haven said what he had to say. The bands who...
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Country Journal of Fish sung a song.
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: But they weren't really.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: It wasn't used as a political platform in that sense.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, there was politics in music then, absolutely. And
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: it tended to be along the lines of sort of
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: more anti-establishment. And there was obviously concerns at that time
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: about Vietnam. About Vietnam. and also the race riots, justifiably.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: But maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly, but they seem to
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: reach a much better balance than we have at the moment.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's me getting it wrong.
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: I think there's a difference between, given the fact that
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: the government narrative will, in all likelihood, have all the
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: support of the media and all its various agencies, it
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: will have a voice, a very loud voice, So for instance,
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: during the Vietnam War, the government was in control of
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: that narrative as best it could. So I don't think
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: it's a bad thing to be politically involved in music,
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: as long as you're, like with Bob Dylan, as long
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: as your music, your politics is wrapped up in music
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: and not in a speech, and as long as you're
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: tilting at the right target, as long as you're forcing
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: people to listen to the possibility that there's another story,
• 45:42
  Speaker 5: that there's another narrative. pay attention to um if an
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: artist got up and just went on and on about
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: how great boris johnson was i mean what's the point
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: there's no point in that the point is is to
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: go up get up on stage and write a song
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: about what his problems might be.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Well what kind of kaiser chiefs did a promo for
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: big pharma they didn't say we believe in free choice
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: we didn't we didn't say we've had the vaccine we
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: think you should you know we think you should make
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: your own decision what they called is anyone who wasn't vaccinated,
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: they called them losers.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: They did it at the Isle of Wight festival.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: It was pretty horrible. They were known as the, they did.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Let's hear it for, um, uh, Madonna. Let's hear it
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: for Salsa. All these big cheers going up. And then
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: they did big loser signs for the unvaccinated. It was
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: a really, it was a monumental low point for music festivals.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: What did they come? What did they get named as?
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: The Pfizer chiefs. The Pfizer chiefs. Wow.
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: It was truly disgusting that they, that it was used
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: to promote basically a poorly researched vaccine. And basically, putting
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: any of that other stuff aside, it should, you know,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: you go back to choice, they should just say, in fact,
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: they shouldn't say anything, they should just get on and
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: play their frigging music. And that should be that. But
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: I thought it was just pretty disgraceful behaviour. And I
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: think an apology should have been It should have been made,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: but anyway.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: It's depressing when people try and other, what they call
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: othering people. You make them other. You turn them into
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: something other than you. And rather than trying to see
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: the things that unify people, you look for the things
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: that separate them. And I don't have any patience with that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: I think that's why I don't like many politicians, because
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: they look for the divisions rather than the things that
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: join people together. Yeah, that's a good point. You know
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: what I mean? was saying earlier about you know most
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: people would get on when we do a festival and
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: there's you've got thousands of people out front well actually
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: as you know it's actually 20 million uh quite a
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: big festival when you've got people out front they just
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: want to have a good time yeah they just want
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: to get you know that you know i mean it's
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: it's uh we have had festivals over here where it
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: ends in in riots and bloodshed and Like that Fire
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: Island thing or whatever it was.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also referred to as the Notting Hill Carnival.
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: And the Notting Hill Carnival.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: It's a real shame. It is. It's horrible.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I think that point that you're making is probably the
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: best comment of this entire conversation. It's something that I
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: have spent a lot of my personal energy focusing on
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: over the years in this particular podcast. If you had
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: asked me, say, 10 years ago about any of this stuff,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I would have othered. I was very sort of ideological,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: you know, and I would never mix with a commie,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: for example, whatever. And yet I found myself having the
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: greatest conversations with communists, self-proclaimed communists on this very podcast.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Because once you realize that you have in common more
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: than you don't have in common with so many people,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: it's an amazing experience. It's like a form of enlightenment.
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: It is, yeah. And also, I don't think it was
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: a saying original to Margaret Thatcher, but I think she
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: must have stolen it from somewhere, but she said you
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: can't kill an idea. Which is true. Which is absolutely true.
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: She's absolutely right. People can have an idea. There's nothing
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: you can do about it. If they've got that idea,
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: that's what it is. All you can do is hope
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: to learn from it. And if you can't learn from it,
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: then just ignore it. Move on. But don't hate them.
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: Because you don't agree. You don't hate them because you.
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: The only problem I have with people are people who
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: would be totalitarian towards me. people who will not leave
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: me alone should I want to be left alone. And
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: that's where my line is drawn, where I become quite
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: intolerant of people who won't tolerate me.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: But that generally comes from the state and from sort
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: of oligarchical infrastructures.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: What was the cause of people?
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: We had all the problems we had in the early
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: 90s and then it manifested itself in Moscow in 2007,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: which came from the anti-gay community.
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: And most of the hate mail we had through the
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: 90s was all sort of anti-gay related. And then when
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: we got beaten up in Moscow, that was to do
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: with the whole gay thing.
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: And what was interesting about that, just going back, there
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: were three people who thought us getting beaten up was hilarious.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: The far left, the far right, and James Whale. Those
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: three people all thought it was hilarious. And that showed
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: you a lot. We had a lot of people coming
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: up saying, you know, you're okay and sorry to see that.
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: But it was always the far right, the far left,
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: and the presenter, James Whale, who thought it was hilarious.
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: It was partly my fault because I did make sexual
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: overtones to the mayor of Moscow. And that was a
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: bad move.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Just remind me again about what happened.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: So we, we were doing a private gig in Moscow
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: for an oligarch. He had a big private party. We
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: were the band and we had Russian crew and the
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: tour manager, the local tour manager. And it was through
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: a promoter we know, and it was all, we knew
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: the people involved. He said, so this was a Saturday
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: night and on Sunday morning, We had a late flight,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: I think about 7 or 8.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: O'clock at night. And he said, what are you guys
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: doing in the day?
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: And we said, we don't know.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: He said, come down to this sort of gathering. I
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: think he called it a fete, if I remember rightly.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: And he said, there's a bunch of people meeting up.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: What's that about? Tattoo?
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: Tattoo, yes. Tattoo, the two girls.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, but they were a force.
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: But they're doing a set, and it's just a bunch
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: of people getting together. So that's what we were told.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: High trust, you say? High trust. High trust.
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: So when we pull up, what happens is that the
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: door slides open and Richard and I kind of bundled out.
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: That van then shoots off. The van behind us who've
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: got security and our tour manager in are told to
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: drive on by the police. So Richard and I are
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: thrown out in the middle of Red Square where all
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: these people are protesting.
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: They've all got masks on. They've got these sort of
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: traditional headwear. Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: And they're doing lots of shouting and screaming. And they've
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: got these masks. So I was immediately thought, I said
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: to Richard, I think we're in trouble here. And he
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: didn't really get it because I could tell this was
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: an anti-gay. They, you know, HIV is airborne. So why
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: they're wearing masks. I thought it was air pollution.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: So what happened was, is that the press spotted us.
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: So the cameras are pointing.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: At these 40, 50 guys who are doing their bit.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: And the cameras swung away from them and swung around
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: to us. And they got very, very upset. And they
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: came over. They suckered punt Richard once or twice. I
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: got beaten and kicked from behind. I was held by
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: the police while I was getting hit. And we've been
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: in Russia and Eastern Europe a lot. And what you
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: never do if you're in a fracas with the police,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: you never retaliate. That's when it goes really, really wrong.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: So we just grabbed our stuff and we ran. And
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: we experienced this being in that part of the world,
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: spirit soldiers, that's what you have to do.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: So we legged it.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: And then what's weird is that all these different factions
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: started running after us. We had a film crew running
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: after us, a couple of the far right guys. Then
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: our tour manager spotted us and he was running after us. Eventually,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: he had phoned, the tour manager phoned ahead and we got,
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I can't remember exactly, but we got taken into an Italian.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: Restaurant that was closed. So they opened up, threw us
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: into an Italian restaurant and shut the door. And we
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: had to hide at the back. And there were police
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: around and these far-right guys running around.
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: And lots of noise.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: And we just hid at the back until it all
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: calmed down. Then we waited, I think, three or four
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: hours or something. We got a car cab to get
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: us around the back of the restaurant, jumped in, went
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: to the hotel.
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: No, they went to the hotel and grabbed all our stuff.
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: And then we had to write the hotel. Hotels in
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: Russia often keep your passports.
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: And they kept us.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: So the tour manager fortunately knew the reception, knew the hotel.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: They handed our passports over. He came back to the hotel.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: By this time, we had more security than any band
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: has ever had in its life. And we were then
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: taken to the airport. And we were, you know, taken
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: in the back and all this.
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: Sort of stuff.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: And it was only when we really took off... from Moscow.
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: When the wheels came up.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: When the wheels came up, that we felt safe. But
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: it was all over the news, all over CNN and Reuters.
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: In fact, we phoned mum, actually, from the airport. Because
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: the minute we saw it on the CNN, on the screen,
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: we knew it might be broadcast in the UK. And
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: if mum saw it before we told her, she would
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: have absolutely freaked. So we phoned mum, actually, from the
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: airport to tell her that we were okay. But it
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: was weird. Yeah, we've had.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Very weird.
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: We've had that before. We've had it in Poland.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: We had the far right coming after us, doing all
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: the cut your throat signs at the front of stage.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: And we've had similar things in Lithuania. So the gay
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: thing is a real problem. I think they think we're
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: both gay and they're not really interested.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: I don't get it.
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: No, I saw an interview with a.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: No, I was going to say, can I tell you
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: who I would beat up? Is there somebody broke into
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: my home and tried to attack my family?
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. No, I completely agree with you. The
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: kind of mentality that you're dealing with in some parts
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: of Russia, and I'm sure in the old Eastern Europe,
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: there's a young guy being interviewed about color and skin
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: color and everything else. And he said, well, let me
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: give you an example. When you wash your clothes, you
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: don't mix the colors and the whites, do you? Jesus Christ.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: That's how he thought. You know, because, you know, you'll
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: stain the whites if you put them in with the colors,
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Well, he is correct if you're talking about washing your clothing.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: If you're talking about.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: Washing, he was using it as an obvious reason, yeah.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: And also, I don't know if you were taught this,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: but my mother always said to me, you never wear
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: brown shoes with black pants.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: Ah.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: We don't wear brown pants, though, do we? Surely. Nobody
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: wears brown pants.
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: No, we don't.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: I don't wear brown shoes, though. I never wear brown shoes.
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: Actually, I do.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I'll add to that. I'll add, never wear one of
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: those white George Michael suits.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: No, I wouldn't do it. Yes, exactly. Or Don Johnson.
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: Wasn't he the other one, Don Johnson?
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Miami Vice.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: Miami Vice, yeah, exactly. No, no, no, no.
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: Ricky Gervais wore one, didn't he? After he was sacked
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: from his job as David Brent. in the office, he
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: made his own pop video, and he was dressed all
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: in white.
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: Or was he on a white stallion?
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: A white horse.
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: Very, very funny.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: Brilliant.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it was, that whole thing in Moscow was very,
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: very weird. And from that moment on, we took security
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: with us, just in case.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, so you did go back?
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: We went back to, was it Ukraine?
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we had shows in Ukraine and the Baltics afterwards.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: And we got regular threats online. We'd had threats in
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: the UK. We used to get sent, some crazy lady
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: used to send us food with smashed up glass in it.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: And so that's why you should never, ever accept food
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: from fans, ever. even if they hand it to you
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: in person, you should never eat it. And so we
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: had that a few times. And it was the usual
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: crazy stuff that some fans do. But then it went
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: on to another level.
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: It started getting, you know, they beat their attack with
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: just car.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: You know, a few things around the house. So the
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: anti-gay thing was a real problem on and off through the.
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: 90s and even 2000s.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: You forget, I mean, it's not an issue now. It
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: doesn't seem to me to be an issue in the
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: UK now at all. There might be pockets of intolerance like, say,
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: Tower Hamlets for various cultural reasons. But other than that,
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: I think people are pretty accepting now, fortunately. But it
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: wasn't so long ago when people were far less accepting.
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: And the government, through ignorance or malice, I don't know which,
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: at the time, fed into it. And headlines like the
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: gay plague and don't die of ignorance and the whole thing.
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: And also, of course, back in the day that people
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: believed that you had gay people on the left and
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: straight people on the right and never the twain shall meet.
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: And it was only when it was realised by ignorant
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: politicians that many people straddled both camps and straight people
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: started getting HIV that the money started coming in for research.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: It wasn't really. Truly, I do think if it had
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: shown itself to be purely gay and never crossed into
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: the straight community, I'm not sure there would have been
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: any attempt to deal with it. I mean, Lady Di
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: did a lot of good stuff. didn't she? Yes, she did.
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: She did a lot of good stuff, actually.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Well, just to make things worse, being gay now also
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: means that you're an oppressor. Did you know that?
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: If you're gay, you're an oppressor? Yes. How so?
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: Who are you oppressing? other gay people.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Well i don't know i'm not i'm not the one
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: making the claim.
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: This this is the whole oppression there are two is
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: it this is the woke thing which is basically there
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: are two classes of people in the world okay there's
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: the oppressed and the oppressor right and you can divide
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: the whole world into those two okay camps right um
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: and that's why that's where the white privilege nonsense comes
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: from because they are oppressors okay um It is a
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: lot of old ones, but you're right to say it is.
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: I think it's best to avoid all of that stuff,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: all the woke stuff.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I just think you should stop being an oppressor. How
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: about that?
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: I think stop being an oppressor, exactly. Apologists. Yes. People just,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know why they don't think for themselves. People just,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: I don't understand it. Kafka wants courage to think for themselves.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Did you know that the heart of, slavery and slave
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: trade is in africa uh.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: Yes yes i can believe.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: That too yeah the massive slave trade and i would
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: think you know imagine what's going on in shop places
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: where cameras don't go there's china north korea as well
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: lots of lots of slave labor i would think in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: the middle east well the reparate you know yeah the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: reparations i don't know whether you saw this but the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: church of england has pledged to send 100 million pounds
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: in reparations to some jamaica or barbados um.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: The reparations position is essentially a racist one, I think.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's paying much attention to the history
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: of slavery. And when people are told that the British
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: Empire back in the day spent a lot of money
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: and a lot of manpower actually ending slavery in terms
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: of what Britain was doing on the high seas, they
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: don't want to hear it. They just want to rattle
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: on about the British slavery, forgetting about.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: The Ottoman Empire or the Chinese or the Spanish or
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: anybody else.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: The biggest slave traders in the world right now are black.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: Yes, exactly.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: It is madness.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: So I think people, going back to what we were
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: saying right at the beginning, is think for yourself. There
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: are lots and lots of different outlets now. You don't
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: have to read The Guardian or listen to Sky or
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: the BBC to get your information. you can go onto
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: all manner of websites now.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: I think it's interesting. You've seen that journalist that got
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: into an immigrant camp in Calais, I believe. And then
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: he lived there. Then he got on a dinghy and
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: he's filmed the whole thing. I think his surname's Dragon.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: And he did, I think if you go on the,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: what's her name? What did I mention to you?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: Oh, so....
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Shopwith?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: No. No, no, no, no. Oakshot? Oakshot. Elizabeth, Isabel. Isabel Oakshot, yes.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: The timeline, she talks about it quite a lot. This
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: guy's done this sort of really investigative piece, which is interesting,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: It's often timeline. Yeah, it's a.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: Parallel. No, whatever.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: It's just a very... When you walk around and you're
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: just talking to ordinary people, and I say ordinary people,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: just regular people, Everybody senses something weird is happening. They
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: just do. It's a kind of, they sense it in
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: the air, in the miasma. They just, they don't know
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: what it is particularly. They can't put their finger on it.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: I've got the segue for you. As we come in
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: for the final lap yet, what they can't put their
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: finger on is what you guys have called a spiritual war.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: It is a spiritual war, I think.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: It is, yeah. And it's a war against... There's a
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: lot of talk right now about Christianity and Islam as
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: these two combating influences. My thing is, I'm with Christopher
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 5: Hitchens on this, I don't need God to be good.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: So I don't need, what I value is freedom of
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: speech over and above everything. The ability for every single
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: person to live their life as they choose and not
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: have some crazy priest, Catholic, imam, whatever, over their shoulder,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: barking orders in their ear about how they should behave,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: what they should eat, and how they should have sex,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: and who they should have sex with. It's none of
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: their business. So it's an old saying, I don't care
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: what you do as long as you don't frighten the horses.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: That's kind of what I think.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: I'm just looking at the time, gents. I thoroughly enjoyed
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: chatting to you. I hope we do it again soon,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: but let's just quickly.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Talk about some of your, your, your music. Now we
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: can follow it.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: Well, we're easy to find. We're on Facebook.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: These days, wrong said Fred, I think is probably more appropriate.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: We're not often now. Not often now.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're very easy to find. If you go to
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: our website, rightsaidfred.com, all the socials are on there. Regular
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: updates are on there and we can be found on
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: X and TikTok and Twitter. Sorry, not Twitter. Um, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Yeah,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: we're all over the shop. And we have a lovely
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: young man called Alexi who's helping us make our social
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: medias sort of make sense.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And we're out on the road next year.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, everything will be updated.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: And you've got a greatest hits album.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: Yes. Yeah, that was ages ago now. That was– when
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: was the singles out?
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: About three years ago. That did all right. It did
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: really well on physical. And so, as I said, we're
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: chatting to a couple of labels at the moment. So
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: we're visiting some new material out early next year, and
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: then we'll be on the road.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: That's the plan.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I hope that that road extends to my end of
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: the pond.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: Where exactly are you? Exactly.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Right at the bottom tip of the African continent.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: Cape Town?
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, cool.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: We played in Cape Town. Also, I knew somebody at
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 5: Michael Hall, one of the poshest schools in South Africa.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a very expensive school.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 5: I know it is, yeah. We did, we were in Durban,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: had a great curry in Durban. We played a few
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 5: places in there. Yeah, we have. Bloemfontein, the home of
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: the ANC. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: Victoria, Jettisburg, Soweto, we played a lot of places.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Bloemfontein is also the home, sorry, the birthplace, I beg
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: your pardon, of Gerald Tolkien.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: Really?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: Oh, is it?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Did you not know that?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: No, I didn't know that. Oh, wow. School day. Yeah,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: school day. Yeah, exactly. All right. No, we've been there many,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 5: many times, and we've really, really enjoyed it. And we
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 5: stayed in a hotel in Cape Town, right on the front,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 5: right on the coast. Lovely chatting. Thank you.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: All right, guys. Fred, Richard, thank you for joining me
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: in the trenches.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: Cheers, mate. Thank you very much.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 7: All the best, mate.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: Take it easy. See you soon, hopefully.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Bye-bye.