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Carnegie Deli Murders · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, so get this picture of the Carnegie Deli
• 0:02
  right May two thousand and one. Okay, tourists everywhere crammed in,
• 0:08
  chowing down on those massive pastrami sandwiches.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can practically smell it, right, totally oblivious that
• 0:15
  a few floors up there's a murder mystery unfolding. It's
• 0:18
  that clash, you know, the city's energy life going on,
• 0:22
  and then bam, this dark event. Five people shot in
• 0:25
  an apartment right above the world famous Carnegie Deli. It's crazy.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Five victims is a lot. Not your average crime scene.
• 0:32
  This was targeted and it all goes back to the
• 0:34
  woman renting the apartment, Jennifer.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Stall, aspiring actress right had a bit part in Dirty Dancing.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, you might even remember her.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: So Stall, she's chasing her Hollywood dream, but to pay
• 0:44
  the bills, she's selling weed, and not just any weed,
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  high end stuff. Her clients were actors, musicians, the serious players,
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  big time producers, the works, the kind you see at
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  the Oscars.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: That's a whole other scene. So she's running with a
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  fast crowd, which makes you one, could this have been
• 1:01
  a drug deal gone bad? Were any of those big
• 1:04
  shot clients.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Involved, definitely questions the investigators had to consider. But we
• 1:08
  can't forget there were four other people caught up in
• 1:11
  this whole thing, each with their own story.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Right. There's Anthony Veeter, he was a headdresser, friends with Stall,
• 1:17
  and then Rosemond Dane, she was dating one of the
• 1:20
  other victims. And then there was Stephen King, an expectant father.
• 1:23
  Stall hired him to like watch the door as her
• 1:26
  business crew.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: And sadly Stephen and Rosemand's boyfriend, Charles stra helliwell, they didn't.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Survive such a tragedy.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: It really gets to you, you know. These weren't just
• 1:36
  names on a police report, real people, families, dreams cut short.
• 1:41
  Anthony and Rosemond, they were injured, but they lived here.
• 1:44
  Imagine going through that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I can't even fathom it. But they were able to
• 1:47
  tell their side of the story, which became crucial for investigators.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, but their memories they were all over the place,
• 1:54
  you know, witness testimony. It's tricky, especially after something that traumatic.
• 1:59
  Adrenaline in fear, right, like.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Your brain just short circuits.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: It's chaos. Details get mixed up. How much could anyone
• 2:06
  even remember after something like that?
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Good point, but they did give the investigator something a name.
• 2:12
  Someone named Sean had buzzed the apartment right before it
• 2:15
  all went down.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And that that's where things get interesting.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Sean huh not exactly an uncommon name, especially in New
• 2:23
  York City? Did that lead actually going here?
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  Speaker 2: It did, but it took some real detective work. Think
• 2:28
  back to Jennifer Stall, the aspiring actress. One of her
• 2:32
  friends remembered this guy, Sean Sally, who'd give install his resume.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, talk about long shot. So did they find him?
• 2:39
  This Sally guy?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: They did? And get this aspiring rapper. He even worked
• 2:44
  as a roadie for Parliament Funkadelic No less.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Whoa Really, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. Okay,
• 2:49
  so aspiring rapper connected to our victim. What are the odds?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Right? But here's the kicker, Sally. While he had a
• 2:57
  past run ins with the law robbery, weapon charges, not
• 3:01
  exactly a choir boy.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that definitely throws up some red flags. This Sean
• 3:04
  leed is looking less like coincidence now exactly?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And hold on, it gets better. They found Sally's mug
• 3:10
  shot and guess what matched One of the guys caught
• 3:13
  on security footage at Stall's apartment building.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, now they're cooking. They've got a suspect, a possible motive.
• 3:20
  Security footage feels like this is it right? Open and shut?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Hold your horses. Remember that parking ticket, the one issued
• 3:27
  in your Stall's place on the night of the murders
• 3:29
  seemed like a dead end.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally forgot about that. What's the connection?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: That ticket led the police straight to a guy named
• 3:35
  Andre Smith. Turns out Smith and Sally they knew each other.
• 3:40
  Both lived in Newark, New Jersey.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Wait, so now we've got a second possible suspect who's
• 3:44
  connected to the first one. This is getting messy.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Messy is an understatement, and here's the real mind blower.
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  Smith walks into a police station out of the blue
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  and confesses to being involved.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: He just confessed like that. That's insane. People usually do,
• 4:00
  do they?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: You're right, Voluntary confessions they're rare, but often there's more
• 4:04
  to it than meets the eye. See in Smith's confession,
• 4:08
  he claims he was just there to help Sally rob Stall.
• 4:11
  Things got out of hand, Sally started shooting the whole
• 4:13
  nine yards.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: The blame game. So what'd Sally have to say about all.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: This, well, you guessed it completely different story. Sally admitted
• 4:22
  he was at Stall's place, but claimed he only shot
• 4:24
  her by accident. Then, surprise, surprise, he points the finger
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  right back at Smith, saying Smith's the one who shot
• 4:30
  everyone else. Classic, he said, she.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Said, leaving the prosecution with a real headache. So we're
• 4:35
  stuck with these two guys each blaming the other. How
• 4:38
  do you even begin to build a case with stories
• 4:42
  that don't line up.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It was a tough one, no doubt. They couldn't say
• 4:45
  for sure who pulled the trigger each time, but both
• 4:48
  guys admitted they were there part of the robbery. And
• 4:50
  that's where this whole felony murder thing comes in.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Felony murder Okay, so in Claan English, what's that mean here?
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  Speaker 2: It means if someone's killed during another crime, like say
• 5:01
  a robbery, anyone involved in that first crime, they're on
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  the hook for the murder too, even though they didn't
• 5:07
  fire the shot.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: WHOA, that's intense. So even if Sally didn't kill everyone,
• 5:11
  just being in on the robbery that made him equally guilty.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. It's a tough rule, but it's there to scare
• 5:17
  people off from these dangerous crimes where things can go
• 5:20
  south fast. Prosecutors said, look, it doesn't matter who shot
• 5:23
  who in the end, Sally and Smith they were both
• 5:26
  in on the robbery, so they're both responsible for what happened.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks, you think twice with your friends, right? So did
• 5:32
  this actually go to trial with both of them sticking
• 5:35
  to their stories?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? It went to trial, all right, And it all
• 5:38
  came down to the evidence they did have and those
• 5:40
  totally different stories. The jury they had to decide who.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: To believe and what they say.
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  Speaker 2: Guilty on all counts both Sally and Smith, three counts
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  of murder, two counts of attempted murder, plus the robbery,
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  the weapons charges, the whole shebang.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a lot what they get?
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  Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty years to life each.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: One hundred and twenty basically a life sentence, isn't it
• 6:01
  pretty much?
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: It shows how serious this was the impact on those families.
• 6:05
  It's impossible to measure for the families of Stephen and Trey,
• 6:08
  I guess it was something, you know, justice, but at
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  such a high price.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine what they went through, what they're still
• 6:15
  going through. What about Anthony and Rosemond did they ever
• 6:17
  really recover.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: They survived physically, but something like that, the emotional trauma
• 6:23
  that never really goes away, does it. It's incredible they
• 6:25
  were able to face those guys in court, help put
• 6:28
  them away real strength there.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: This whole thing is just often, even with the convictions,
• 6:33
  it feels like we're missing pieces. What was Sally really
• 6:35
  doing there that night? Was it just drugs, money or
• 6:39
  was there something more? I guess we'll never know.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: That's the thing about these cases. Sometimes the puzzles never complete.
• 6:44
  You're left with bits and pieces, conflicting stories, and that
• 6:47
  feeling that there's more to it than we'll ever get.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: It's a reminder that even in a city that never sleeps,
• 6:53
  even somewhere as normal as the above a deli, bad
• 6:56
  things happen. Lives change in a flash with you.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Most about all this, For me, it's how fragile life
• 7:03
  is and how our choices they ripple out. Jennifer Stall,
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  she wanted to be an actress, and that led her
• 7:09
  to cross pads with people who ended up playing a
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  part in her death. It makes you think, you know,
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  every choice we make, who we meet, it shapes things
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  in ways we can't predict.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: It really does this deep dive into the Carnegie Deli murders.
• 7:22
  It's been fascinating and incredibly sad. If you're as hooked
• 7:25
  on this case as we are, go do some digging yourself.
• 7:27
  The news stories, the court records, they're all out there.
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  You can even try to picture the Carnegie Deli, though
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  it's gone now close back in twenty sixteen, but the
• 7:36
  echoes of this story they're still there if you listen closely.