Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 01/30/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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01/30/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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Speaker 4: four two eight one three one three zero four three
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Speaker 4: four two eight one three one. You could put the
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Speaker 4: power of Tom Peyton on your side this morning. Tom
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Speaker 4: Peyton from the Paithon Law Firm is in studio with
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Speaker 4: us this morning. Peyton Lawfirm dot com. That's p E
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Speaker 4: get ahold of us this morning at three four two eight,
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Speaker 4: one three one. You can text over any questions that
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Speaker 4: you have about the law or topics that we'll talk
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Speaker 4: about this morning. The three zero four nine three five
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Speaker 4: five zeros. Youre eight, Tom, Good morning. How you doing
1:21
Speaker 4: this morning?
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Speaker 1: I'm doing great.
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Speaker 5: How are you doing?
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Speaker 4: Not too bad and not too bad? A little uh
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Speaker 4: breaking the freezing weather, so it's yeah, have normal, normal days.
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Speaker 5: It's starting to better. Weather was peaking its head out
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Speaker 5: last thurs Deal when I was here, and now it
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Speaker 5: looks like we're gonna have some real good weather the
1:33
Speaker 5: next few days. It's amazing how warm forty five degrees
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Speaker 5: can feel.
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Speaker 4: It can feel. It feels awful nice. I tell you what.
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Speaker 4: I don't mind cold weather, but the the elongated, the
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Speaker 4: long snaps of cold weather I could do without for
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Speaker 4: the most part. But I'm glad we're moving past.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been hot on the legal front this week.
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Speaker 5: We talked with the verdicts that are reaching the media
1:51
Speaker 5: have fallen I think three different ones this week.
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Speaker 6: Uh.
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Speaker 5: The one we probably followed the most, it's gotten the
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Speaker 5: most attention is the what they're like the Lance white
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Speaker 5: Feather trial, and that's the that was the trial that
2:05
Speaker 5: was pending in Knall County Circuit Court I think Judge Acres,
2:10
Speaker 5: and it was a jury trial, of course, and they
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Speaker 5: had This is the one where maybe it's fairly rapid
2:18
Speaker 5: pace for that serious of a case. Maybe a year
2:20
Speaker 5: a little more than a year ago. They the police
2:24
Speaker 5: were called to a rural homestead I think in the
2:29
Speaker 5: Systemville area, and there lived two adults, uh who were white,
2:38
Speaker 5: and then there were five adopted children who are African
2:41
Speaker 5: American and found them in oh I would probably describe,
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Speaker 5: at least what I've read in the media is deplorable
2:49
Speaker 5: type conditions. Two of the eldest children were in a
2:54
Speaker 5: what they've described as a shed that where they made
2:57
Speaker 5: on U had the ability to exit the sheep at will,
3:00
Speaker 5: meaning kind of locked in with a key hidden. And
3:06
Speaker 5: this is These folks lived in Minnesota the state of Washington,
3:11
Speaker 5: where there's some issues. I think they adopted the children
3:14
Speaker 5: either in I think in Minnesota, and then moved to
3:17
Speaker 5: Washington and then moved to West Virginia. And it's been
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Speaker 5: a fairly long trial. It started and went over a
3:25
Speaker 5: couple of weeks of calendar days. It wasn't trial every day.
3:27
Speaker 5: There were some holidays, and then oftentimes the judges have
3:30
Speaker 5: to take the judge has to take a little break
3:31
Speaker 5: to handle other matters. But still a lengthy trial. And
3:35
Speaker 5: in the defense, I kind of thought it would wrap
3:37
Speaker 5: up last week, but the defense put on more witnesses
3:41
Speaker 5: than I than I thought. And they, you know, in
3:47
Speaker 5: this day and age, they had security cameras that the
3:50
Speaker 5: parents had put up and and those are either sound
3:56
Speaker 5: or motion activated, and so they only record snippets of activity.
4:01
Speaker 5: But apparently the jury was able to see a good
4:03
Speaker 5: bit of those and what the parents described as a
4:07
Speaker 5: fort in the backyard or a classroom, you can see
4:10
Speaker 5: inside of the what's also been described as a shed
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Speaker 5: is you know, plastic on the ground, nothing in there,
4:17
Speaker 5: I mean shelves with no books, no supplies, some sort
4:21
Speaker 5: of camping porta potty that they were using. And then
4:26
Speaker 5: with technology, I think they had some texts back and forth,
4:29
Speaker 5: they're able to do a you know, these days, if
4:33
Speaker 5: law enforcement has probable cause, they can use a search
4:36
Speaker 5: warrant to see a cellular phone and then state police
4:40
Speaker 5: lab as a I think various professionals there that can
4:43
Speaker 5: download pretty much. I've had a couple of cases where
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Speaker 5: my client's phones were downloaded, and they can get when
4:48
Speaker 5: you delete something, it's usually still on your phone somewhere,
4:51
Speaker 5: and so they were able to get old texts and
4:53
Speaker 5: things like that. But a defense called CPS worker, and
4:59
Speaker 5: you know, I kind of noticed this. I don't know
5:01
Speaker 5: if I saw it in the gazette or on Metro news,
5:03
Speaker 5: but I think, you know, the CPS worker went out
5:05
Speaker 5: to investigate based on some complaints a good while before
5:09
Speaker 5: the arrest happened, and didn't substantiate abuse or neglect, but
5:15
Speaker 5: there was supposed to be some follow up, which that
5:17
Speaker 5: CPS person just testified that nobody followed up even though
5:22
Speaker 5: they were supposed to. Not really surprising based on our
5:25
Speaker 5: childware welfare system here in West Virginia, which has been
5:29
Speaker 5: woefully underfunded despite the political rhetoric over the last decade.
5:34
Speaker 5: But I didn't. I think the CPS worker was in
5:37
Speaker 5: jail because the picture I saw of her on the
5:39
Speaker 5: witness stand had her wearing an orange jumpsuit like you
5:42
Speaker 5: wear in the regional jail system, so you know, it
5:45
Speaker 5: reflects poorly on the I don't think that really helped
5:48
Speaker 5: the defense if they were trying to use CPS to
5:52
Speaker 5: vouch for the fact that their clients had not committed
5:55
Speaker 5: wrongdoing because look, abuse and neglect by the professionals that
5:58
Speaker 5: are supposed to investigate it was not substantiated. But then
6:02
Speaker 5: they had some psychologists testify, a couple of local well
6:06
Speaker 5: known psychologists, psychiatrists both for the defense and for the prosecution,
6:10
Speaker 5: and and the and the the male child who they
6:14
Speaker 5: had some video think of being subjected to some physical
6:17
Speaker 5: abuse maybe hitting with a PVC pipe by the father,
6:22
Speaker 5: had some you know, agreed he had some significant mental
6:25
Speaker 5: health issues. And the defense kind of played, well, we
6:27
Speaker 5: we came to West India to try and get mental
6:29
Speaker 5: health help and that's why we moved here. And and
6:32
Speaker 5: you know, like they were struggling to deal with the children,
6:35
Speaker 5: but there wasn't a whole lot of events that I
6:37
Speaker 5: heard where they made great effort to do that. And uh,
6:42
Speaker 5: they were charged with thirty five counts trafficking civil rights
6:48
Speaker 5: violations based upon I think race discrimination, and then some
6:55
Speaker 5: abuse charges and then some neglect charges. Abuse generally is
6:59
Speaker 5: more like a firm of conduct like hitting somebody or
7:01
Speaker 5: doing neglect is maybe not providing food, water, sustenance, that
7:06
Speaker 5: kind of thing. And I listened to it all in
7:09
Speaker 5: the media. I kind of I figured they wouldn't get
7:10
Speaker 5: convictions on all of those charges. That's an awful lot
7:12
Speaker 5: of charges, and it sounded like the defense was one
7:17
Speaker 5: Both uh Mark Plants represented one of the parents, I
7:21
Speaker 5: think the mom, and then John Belinovitch represented the father,
7:25
Speaker 5: and both experienced good attorneys defense attorneys, and I thought
7:29
Speaker 5: they did it from what I read, did a really
7:30
Speaker 5: good job. And I figured, uh, you know, maybe half
7:34
Speaker 5: the charges would stick. Neglect, abuse, the civil rights and trafficking.
7:39
Speaker 5: I thought, when you listened to the facts as I
7:41
Speaker 5: understood them, it was a little and read the elements
7:43
Speaker 5: of a trafficking criminal charge, it's I thought, that's a
7:46
Speaker 5: little bit difficult to fit in this.
7:50
Speaker 4: What were these I think that there's this I wonder
7:53
Speaker 4: if you can maybe explain this, because I think there
7:55
Speaker 4: might be There's been so much talk over the last
7:58
Speaker 4: few years, people nationally have talked about quote unquote trafficking
8:02
Speaker 4: children or trafficking people and stuff like that. And I
8:05
Speaker 4: get this impression from talking to people when they start
8:07
Speaker 4: talking about it, that they exclusively are thinking about like
8:10
Speaker 4: girls that are kidnapped for sex trafficking.
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Speaker 5: Sure, that's the most common example. I mean, you I
8:15
Speaker 5: haven't had a trafficking case to defend from a criminal standpoint,
8:19
Speaker 5: but as I read the charge, it's almost like a kidnapping,
8:26
Speaker 5: holding somebody against their will, but it has to do
8:28
Speaker 5: with forced labor and get something out of it. And
8:31
Speaker 5: that's where I thought. Was there any monetary I guess
8:36
Speaker 5: they were getting. They get a stipend or something because
8:40
Speaker 5: they're foster parents. They'd actually adopted them. Actually they weren't
8:43
Speaker 5: really foster parents anymore, but they had adopted them, so
8:46
Speaker 5: they get government subsidies and payments probably every month, and
8:50
Speaker 5: so maybe that was the angle that they were Then
8:54
Speaker 5: I think some neighbors testified about seeing the kids working
8:57
Speaker 5: and that kind of thing, and so I thought, it
8:59
Speaker 5: doesn't it in the like you said, the paradigm will
9:02
Speaker 5: usually think of for human trafficking. So that, well, the
9:04
Speaker 5: jury might look at those elements and say they didn't
9:07
Speaker 5: prove their case. But they so they did closing arguments
9:10
Speaker 5: I think Tuesday, and then the jury deliberated for eight hours,
9:13
Speaker 5: so they you know, I've had juries deliberate longer than that.
9:16
Speaker 5: But that's a pretty that's a pretty decent let you
9:20
Speaker 5: know that the jury thought about it. You know, the
9:23
Speaker 5: judge read I think, what was sixty pages of jury
9:25
Speaker 5: instructions before the jury deliberated. That's it's a lot. But
9:30
Speaker 5: then the judge it's it's common practice, and I'm sure
9:34
Speaker 5: she probably did it in this case. You know, they
9:36
Speaker 5: usually give the written jury instructions to the jury. And
9:39
Speaker 5: you know, I've had, oh gosh, probably half my criminal
9:42
Speaker 5: cases that are hotly contested the jurial right back questions
9:45
Speaker 5: about the jury instructions after they read them, because it's
9:49
Speaker 5: you know, really, even for me as a lawyer, it's
9:51
Speaker 5: hard to sit there and listen to somebody read sixty
9:53
Speaker 5: pages of technical legal standards, especially when you're charged with
9:58
Speaker 5: going back and s looking at almost word by word
10:02
Speaker 5: of the criminal charge and seeing, well, did they prove
10:04
Speaker 5: this beyond a reasonable doubt? Because if there's one element
10:07
Speaker 5: of an offense, there's five elements of an offense, and
10:09
Speaker 5: the state doesn't prove one of them beyond a reasonable doubt,
10:12
Speaker 5: then jury has a duty to come back and find
10:15
Speaker 5: the defendant not guilty. It doesn't mean they didn't do
10:17
Speaker 5: anything wrong. And you know, an acquittal doesn't mean you
10:20
Speaker 5: weren't guilty of something. But the state couldn't prove every
10:23
Speaker 5: element of the crime, but they deliberated for eight hours
10:26
Speaker 5: and then ultimately came back. And the evidence must have
10:31
Speaker 5: been more favorable to the prosecutor than I had gleaned
10:36
Speaker 5: from the media reports, because they convicted the mother of
10:39
Speaker 5: all counts that she was charged with, and then the
10:43
Speaker 5: father I think was found not guilty of the four
10:47
Speaker 5: civil rights violations, and that I think it came out
10:50
Speaker 5: in trial that yea, the mother was more of the
10:54
Speaker 5: primary bad actor in multiple facets, which is probably why
10:59
Speaker 5: the jury went that way. So so anyway, I've heard
11:03
Speaker 5: the prosecutor is it Resnik. I think, yeah, so she
11:06
Speaker 5: you know it's And Chris Kravangnac was one of the
11:09
Speaker 5: prosecuting attorneys. Chris is I've known him for a long time. Uh,
11:14
Speaker 5: good guy and good good prosecutor. And so they must
11:17
Speaker 5: have done a really good job as well. And so
11:19
Speaker 5: now they're I think they're still in bond.
11:22
Speaker 2: I'm not.
11:23
Speaker 5: Once you're concing, you're entitled to bond in West Virginia
11:26
Speaker 5: unless it's a lifetime capital offense, and then the circuit
11:30
Speaker 5: court can set bond. However, the moment you get convicted
11:35
Speaker 5: by a jury, you're convicted, at least provisionally, I mean,
11:38
Speaker 5: they'll be post trial motions. They'll be probably an appeal
11:42
Speaker 5: to the Western New Supreme Court of Appeals. But once
11:45
Speaker 5: the jury finds the guilty verdict, you're not entitled to
11:47
Speaker 5: bond anymore pending your sentencing. So I've had well, I
11:50
Speaker 5: had one hotly contested when where some deputies were hurt
11:53
Speaker 5: in an altercation and and they were My client was
11:57
Speaker 5: charged with multiple felonies and a misdemean and ultimately the
12:00
Speaker 5: jury only convicted him of a misdemeanor. But the judge
12:03
Speaker 5: you know, revoked his bond as soon as I wouldn't
12:06
Speaker 5: grant bond as soon as that verdict came in, even
12:08
Speaker 5: though my client had been free for a couple of
12:10
Speaker 5: years we were preparing for trial. Send him straight to
12:13
Speaker 5: jail pending sentencing. I think these folks are still in
12:15
Speaker 5: bond ale. They have a really high bond amount that
12:18
Speaker 5: they were able to post, and that's supposed to be
12:21
Speaker 5: high enough that it will keep them from running off.
12:24
Speaker 5: And obviously after a conviction, now that you know me,
12:30
Speaker 5: I think if you add up all the all the
12:32
Speaker 5: charges and potential penalties, and if they were run consecutive.
12:35
Speaker 5: I mean it, it could amount to a de facto
12:38
Speaker 5: life sentence for both of them because they're I don't
12:40
Speaker 5: know how they are. They appear to be probably fifty
12:42
Speaker 5: sixty something like that, so you know, once you're convicted,
12:46
Speaker 5: only subject to appeal, you know, kind of the inevitables coming.
12:50
Speaker 5: And so their sentencing is set in March, so the
12:54
Speaker 5: rebber will hit the road then and we'll see what
12:57
Speaker 5: that'll be up to Judge Acres. So that was an
13:01
Speaker 5: interesting conclusion to a long trial that we've been kind
13:03
Speaker 5: of following. And we had a couple others fall in
13:06
Speaker 5: this come up this week. One of them was the
13:08
Speaker 5: I can't remember her first name, last names Cochrane down
13:10
Speaker 5: in dun in Beckley, and that's the one where apparently
13:13
Speaker 5: Court TV was there live which I didn't know Court
13:15
Speaker 5: TV still existed, but live streaming or maybe putting it
13:20
Speaker 5: on TV. The trial. This is one where a woman
13:26
Speaker 5: I apparently had got some kind of Ponzi scheme going.
13:28
Speaker 5: I never read the details of the ponzee scheme, some
13:32
Speaker 5: kind of fraudulent scheme that I think she had hid
13:35
Speaker 5: from her husband and concealed. She eventually got caught because
13:40
Speaker 5: the federal government charged her, and so she ended up
13:43
Speaker 5: either entering a plea or being found guilty of federal
13:46
Speaker 5: charges relating to the Ponzi scheme. And right now she's
13:49
Speaker 5: already incarcerated. She's got eleven year sentence on the federal level. Now,
13:53
Speaker 5: this case in Beckley was a state charge, so the
13:55
Speaker 5: county prosecutor in Raley County was prosecuting it. But it
13:58
Speaker 5: was murder of her husband. And so the fact as
14:02
Speaker 5: I understand him, as her husband had gone ill and
14:06
Speaker 5: maybe some friends had come over and neighbors and seen
14:09
Speaker 5: him on the couch and said, well, he's he's the hospital,
14:14
Speaker 5: I assumeing lethargic or should obvious signs of illness, and
14:18
Speaker 5: she kind of blew him off and said, well, he'll
14:21
Speaker 5: just sleep it off. And then unfortunately, like within days
14:25
Speaker 5: of that, he passed away. And he was fairly young person,
14:30
Speaker 5: I mean, I think from the pictures I saw maybe
14:32
Speaker 5: forty something like that, maybe even younger than that. And
14:36
Speaker 5: so they had it. They charged her with murder, and
14:39
Speaker 5: there wasn't really direct evidence. I mean, there's nobody that
14:44
Speaker 5: you saw or actually heard her doing anything affirmatively to him.
14:49
Speaker 5: But when they did the autopsy report in the toxicology,
14:54
Speaker 5: he in essence died from hypeoglycemia low extremely low gluclose
14:59
Speaker 5: or blood sugar and went in to shock and passed away.
15:03
Speaker 5: And so the you know, I guess the motive alleged
15:08
Speaker 5: was that he was learning or maybe found out something
15:11
Speaker 5: about this Ponzi scheme, and I guess back then she
15:13
Speaker 5: hadn't been caught yet, and in response the she committed
15:21
Speaker 5: murder by administering insulin to him, which, of course if
15:25
Speaker 5: you insulin lowers your glueclose level, your blood sugar level.
15:29
Speaker 5: And if we had one up in the all it
15:32
Speaker 5: was a VA hospital facility I think where there was
15:35
Speaker 5: a nurse that just went rogue and was injecting killed
15:38
Speaker 5: multiple patients injecting him with insulin, lowering their blood sugar
15:41
Speaker 5: to lethal levels. And so here they had an expert
15:47
Speaker 5: witness for the prosecutions team. Essentially, you know, you can't
15:53
Speaker 5: set I don't think there were injection sites physically on
15:56
Speaker 5: anywhere on his body. I didn't hear evidence of that,
15:58
Speaker 5: but you know, trying to determine a cause of death
16:01
Speaker 5: essentially ruled out any accidental means the way, Okay, thirty
16:06
Speaker 5: eight yes, and so ruled out any accidental means of
16:09
Speaker 5: death and essentially concluded, you know that someone had it
16:16
Speaker 5: was homicide. Someone had injected him or administered to him
16:20
Speaker 5: in essence an overdose of insulin which resulted in his death.
16:23
Speaker 5: And so that one went on for probably a week
16:26
Speaker 5: or more that trial than the jury convicted her of
16:31
Speaker 5: first degree murder after only two hours of deliberation, which
16:35
Speaker 5: is relatively short time for a case as serious as
16:40
Speaker 5: a murder murder charge. So that was yesterday that that
16:42
Speaker 5: verdict came out. And then what happens in West Virginia
16:45
Speaker 5: and state charge is when it's first degree murder, you
16:48
Speaker 5: can get mercy or no mercy, and they bifurcate the trial,
16:54
Speaker 5: meaning he first you have the trial on whether the
16:57
Speaker 5: person's guilty or not. If they're found guilty, then normally
17:01
Speaker 5: stay with the same jury and sometimes we'll go right
17:04
Speaker 5: into the next phase about whether the person gets mercy
17:06
Speaker 5: or not. Yesterday they probably would have gone right into it,
17:10
Speaker 5: but the defense asked for a little time to call
17:14
Speaker 5: some witnesses because now the witnesses are not whether she
17:17
Speaker 5: was guilty or innocent. It's kind of mitigation of you know,
17:22
Speaker 5: does she have the character or I was a crown
17:26
Speaker 5: that bad that she should be in prison for the
17:28
Speaker 5: rest of her life, which is what it is in
17:30
Speaker 5: West Virginia. If there's no mercy. If there's mercy, then
17:33
Speaker 5: after fifteen years she'll be eligible for parole. Doesn't mean
17:36
Speaker 5: she'll be paroled, and I think normally they do pro
17:38
Speaker 5: hearings once a year, but after fifteen years she would
17:41
Speaker 5: have no opportunity to be released from prison. She's in
17:43
Speaker 5: for eleven years anyway. I don't know when that sentence
17:45
Speaker 5: started under the federal charge, so those will probably overlap.
17:52
Speaker 5: But anyway, the judge is doing the mercy portion of
17:56
Speaker 5: the trial today, so same jury who already heard all
17:59
Speaker 5: the other acts will then determine whether she to grant
18:02
Speaker 5: her mercy or not. So probably I'd say it the
18:04
Speaker 5: oprah is in evidence all day today and then liberate
18:07
Speaker 5: this evening or tomorrow.
18:09
Speaker 4: So she was a pharmacist with access to insulin with
18:11
Speaker 4: the IVB and that that that that's the way that
18:14
Speaker 4: she was able to get a hold of it. It's
18:16
Speaker 4: a crazy, it's it's wild. I spoke to you before
18:20
Speaker 4: we went on the air that all the stories are
18:21
Speaker 4: reminding me of like narrative fiction, you know, like things
18:24
Speaker 4: from movies or books or something like this. This was
18:26
Speaker 4: not exactly the same, but the old Christopher Nolan movie Memento.
18:31
Speaker 4: The the device of the plot of that movie was
18:34
Speaker 4: that the main character could couldn't remember anything. This was
18:36
Speaker 4: before cell phones and stuff, so he tat tattooed things
18:38
Speaker 4: all over his skin. Okay, But one of the backstories
18:40
Speaker 4: they told was his wife not believing that he couldn't
18:43
Speaker 4: remember things from one day to an or from one
18:45
Speaker 4: hour to another a lot of times, and so she
18:48
Speaker 4: needed insulin shots and she tricked him into because she
18:51
Speaker 4: thought that, well, he'll never you know, kill me. He's
18:53
Speaker 4: just pretending. And so she pretended, like hour after hour
18:56
Speaker 4: after hour, that he had never given her her shots before,
18:59
Speaker 4: and he's just kept on giving him because she would
19:01
Speaker 4: be like, hey, you need to give a like okay,
19:02
Speaker 4: I'll do it. And then eventually it killed her, right,
19:04
Speaker 4: And that was sort of the device of the movie
19:06
Speaker 4: or whatever. But it's just odd, I mean, if true,
19:09
Speaker 4: and obviously she was convicted, so I mean, uh, what
19:12
Speaker 4: a wild story. I mean, you know, she's so you
19:15
Speaker 4: got the Ponzi scheme side of things, and then you
19:17
Speaker 4: have the husband maybe potentially discovering it side of things.
19:20
Speaker 4: Then you have her deciding to.
19:21
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they had two children together, and the adults
19:24
Speaker 5: believe at this point, and so they the like the
19:28
Speaker 5: defense I think is going to call both of the
19:31
Speaker 5: kids to the stand today. I assume, I mean obviously
19:34
Speaker 5: that indicates they want mercy for their mother.
19:37
Speaker 4: I think the sun was on before, like during the trial,
19:41
Speaker 4: and he was talking about how Dad was mad a
19:43
Speaker 4: lot of the times or something like that, or is
19:44
Speaker 4: in a bad mood a lot or something. So I
19:46
Speaker 4: guess that's part of the I mean, I don't even
19:49
Speaker 4: know what you play into there. I mean, I mean,
19:50
Speaker 4: a bad moods not reason to kill something.
19:52
Speaker 5: And I don't think they had evident you know, even
19:53
Speaker 5: though she's a pharmacist that would have access, I don't
19:55
Speaker 5: think they had direct evidence of her, uh, you know,
19:58
Speaker 5: stealing or you embezzling, I guess, using your position of
20:03
Speaker 5: trust as a pharmacist to get the get the insulin.
20:05
Speaker 5: So that was it was really circumstantial evidence. And then
20:08
Speaker 5: the conclusion of an expert pathologist I believe, or talk
20:12
Speaker 5: to toicologists to testify about the acute cause of death.
20:17
Speaker 4: All kinds of interesting things going along the state from
20:19
Speaker 4: a broad perspective when it comes to the legal the
20:22
Speaker 4: legal news, but you know the state wide cases like this,
20:25
Speaker 4: they're interesting, but that's not putting the law on your side.
20:27
Speaker 4: If you have any questions about how the paytent offering
20:30
Speaker 4: might be able to answer questions for you or help
20:31
Speaker 4: you out, or if you have any questions for you
20:33
Speaker 4: or maybe allowed one. People are sometimes shad to make
20:35
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20:36
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20:39
Speaker 4: give us a call this morning. Our number is three
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20:45
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20:47
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20:49
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20:50
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Speaker 4: out more information online. Peyton Lawfirm dot com, Peyton lawfrom
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21:13
Speaker 4: You're listening to Ask the Lawyer with Tom Payton from
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23:00
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23:01
Speaker 4: you want to talk on the abstract about some of
23:03
Speaker 4: the big legal things going on here in the state
23:05
Speaker 4: of West Virginia, work even nationally to some degree, you're
23:08
Speaker 4: welcome to call in. But of course, as always, the
23:09
Speaker 4: Payton Law Firm is here to put the power of
23:12
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23:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, talking about criminal cases. And you know, really because
23:20
Speaker 5: they have interesting sets of facts, sad sometimes.
23:23
Speaker 2: And we do.
23:26
Speaker 5: I don't get bogged down with a lot of criminal
23:28
Speaker 5: defensive cases now only do retain cases for the most part,
23:32
Speaker 5: don't get appointed to do them as as a public
23:34
Speaker 5: defender anything. But they're and I'm pretty selective on the
23:37
Speaker 5: ones that I take. But what we really do a
23:41
Speaker 5: lot of is injury of work. Folks that have been
23:43
Speaker 5: hurt in some way and are fighting against auto the
23:45
Speaker 5: insurance company or a trucking insurance company, or folks that
23:48
Speaker 5: are fighting with their own insurance company. I've had a
23:51
Speaker 5: flood lately of cases and this is probably an interesting
23:55
Speaker 5: uh PSA these life insurance so in West Virginia you
24:01
Speaker 5: got to watch so you'll get these little especially I
24:04
Speaker 5: find most of my cases are older folks, not all
24:07
Speaker 5: of them, but you'll get these little cards in the mail.
24:10
Speaker 5: Act me insurance company whatever. It is, a lot of
24:12
Speaker 5: them I think are they're subsidiaries and connected by one
24:17
Speaker 5: big corporate actor. But oh, you can get life insurance
24:20
Speaker 5: for this or that cheap and and and that kind
24:22
Speaker 5: of thing. And so what they do ordinarily they'll come
24:25
Speaker 5: and have you, uh they're supposed to go over the
24:29
Speaker 5: agent and they'll they'll come to your home. Most of
24:31
Speaker 5: these they come to folks homes. They'll visit them because
24:33
Speaker 5: the you know, the agent's pretty aggressive on selling life
24:36
Speaker 5: insurance to the cases I've handled, obviously, they make the
24:39
Speaker 5: get a commission off every sale, and so it's building
24:43
Speaker 5: up as many sales as they can and you to
24:48
Speaker 5: qualify you don't like if you have a legitimate full
24:52
Speaker 5: insurance policy maybe high dollars, a million dollars or something.
24:56
Speaker 5: A lot of times the insurance companies will make you
24:58
Speaker 5: undergo what it's called a paramedic exam, so they actually
25:01
Speaker 5: take blood and you know, then they rate you and
25:03
Speaker 5: so you're either be uninsurable, they won't offer the policy
25:07
Speaker 5: to you at all, or maybe you'll be rated where
25:09
Speaker 5: your preams little higher if you're not quite as healthy
25:11
Speaker 5: as as another person. But these kind of quickies where
25:15
Speaker 5: they send little postcards out and then it's all about
25:18
Speaker 5: getting leads for the insurance salesmen. Then they go to
25:21
Speaker 5: your home and sometimes in the cases i've handled, either
25:26
Speaker 5: pressure tactics or sales tactics where they've been taught to
25:33
Speaker 5: if this person says this, and remind them that you
25:36
Speaker 5: know this will help their children get through college, or
25:39
Speaker 5: you have various responses they get which is it's sales,
25:42
Speaker 5: which is nothing illegal about that as long as they
25:45
Speaker 5: don't make misrepresentations. But what you have to watch if
25:48
Speaker 5: anybody out there is is thinking about purchasing that type
25:51
Speaker 5: of insurance, which isn't necessarily a bad investment, depending on
25:54
Speaker 5: the price. But they come to your home and then
25:57
Speaker 5: there's there's generally a very very very basic, one page
26:01
Speaker 5: health questionnaire that comes out. And so what I found lately,
26:06
Speaker 5: especially with the advent of computers and e signature, is
26:10
Speaker 5: that oftentimes the client isn't or they insured, isn't necessarily
26:14
Speaker 5: signing an application and reviewing it in paper. It's these
26:16
Speaker 5: electronic signatures. And you can do electronic signatures, which I'm
26:21
Speaker 5: sure you're aware where you you email me something and
26:24
Speaker 5: I signed electronically with a password, it's verifiable that I'm
26:27
Speaker 5: the only one. I gave my password to somebody that
26:30
Speaker 5: actually signed that. I've had some cases recently where it's
26:33
Speaker 5: as simple as maybe an agent can get one signature
26:38
Speaker 5: on something and then they just superimpose the electronics signature.
26:44
Speaker 5: And electronic signatures are valid in West Virginia, but it
26:46
Speaker 5: has to be they got to show it wasn't a
26:49
Speaker 5: true endorsement by the person whose signature they claim it is.
26:53
Speaker 5: But for example, Thomas H. Peyton would sign a medical
26:56
Speaker 5: authorization and then they take that and signed the application
27:01
Speaker 5: with it, and then so it creates issues later. Now
27:04
Speaker 5: the law on that in West Virginia is kind of interesting.
27:07
Speaker 5: So as long as you're not and cohootes with the
27:11
Speaker 5: agent and trying to defraud the insurance company. Let's say
27:13
Speaker 5: you they ask very generic broad questions, have you ever
27:18
Speaker 5: I had heart disease? Have you ever been told to
27:22
Speaker 5: stop drinking by medical professional? And sometimes they limit those
27:26
Speaker 5: questions at times sometimes are so broad. I mean it
27:29
Speaker 5: could be like to literally answer it, you'd have to
27:31
Speaker 5: go back to your childhood and know whether you had X,
27:33
Speaker 5: Y or Z. And they're set up that way in
27:36
Speaker 5: my opinion, because if you then pass away within two
27:40
Speaker 5: years of the time the policy is issued, then they
27:43
Speaker 5: can go back and do what I reference as retroactive underwriting.
27:47
Speaker 5: So the paramedical exam I was talking about earlier, they underwrite,
27:50
Speaker 5: meaning underwrite just means the company analyzes the risk and
27:55
Speaker 5: determines at that point whether it's worth it to ensure
27:58
Speaker 5: you or not. Retroactive underwriting, to me is inherently unfair.
28:03
Speaker 5: What happens is if you pass away within that two years,
28:07
Speaker 5: then they go on a scorched earth search of your
28:10
Speaker 5: medical records to see if any of those answers you
28:15
Speaker 5: gave on that one page health questionnaire contradict what's in
28:20
Speaker 5: your medical records. And it doesn't matter whether it was
28:24
Speaker 5: in West Virginia, it doesn't matter whether it was an
28:25
Speaker 5: intention like if it's the way I've had can't answer,
28:29
Speaker 5: but I'm gonna put no one here. That's intentional misrepresentation.
28:33
Speaker 5: But even if you just didn't understand the question or
28:37
Speaker 5: you forgot about something and they found that the answer
28:42
Speaker 5: was ultimately incorrect, and you've passed away within the first
28:45
Speaker 5: two years of the policy, then doesn'ty those claims after
28:50
Speaker 5: the fact. And the problem is, you know maybe you
28:52
Speaker 5: and your family have a lot of times these aren't
28:55
Speaker 5: big policies fifty grand or less, but either there to
28:58
Speaker 5: cover folks funeral services, there to help maybe a widow
29:05
Speaker 5: or a widower or the rest of the family get
29:07
Speaker 5: get on their feet again after maybe a primary wage
29:10
Speaker 5: journer passes away, and so you've been relying on that,
29:13
Speaker 5: and then if something tragic happens within that two year mark,
29:17
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, they pull the rug out from
29:19
Speaker 5: you and deny coverage and they will reimburse your premiums
29:24
Speaker 5: because they, in essence, weren't earned now. At the same time,
29:28
Speaker 5: once you get past the two year mark in West Virginia,
29:31
Speaker 5: then they can't contest the policy based on incorrect answers
29:36
Speaker 5: in the healthy questionnaire. But I've had three or four
29:38
Speaker 5: of those cases over the last year, really year and
29:42
Speaker 5: a half, and we've done well on them. But just
29:46
Speaker 5: be wary out there if you're getting this type of solicitation,
29:48
Speaker 5: and always beware of pressure tactics.
29:52
Speaker 4: What I think, and you explaining this to me, and
29:55
Speaker 4: what I wonder is like I just went through a
29:57
Speaker 4: medical procedure and so I'm thinking back to all the
29:59
Speaker 4: questions that asked uff like that. And one of the
30:00
Speaker 4: questions that we came to was when my admission nurse
30:04
Speaker 4: was asking me about smoking and she had said, I
30:06
Speaker 4: have hearing your history that you that you used to
30:08
Speaker 4: be a smoker, and I'm like, man, I wonder how
30:09
Speaker 4: far back that goes, because I haven't smoked since I
30:11
Speaker 4: was like in my early twenties or I mean we're
30:13
Speaker 4: talking thirty years now. I haven't smoked in forever. And
30:17
Speaker 4: I would be inclined if somebody asked me a questions
30:19
Speaker 4: about smoking today be like, yeah, I don't smoke, you know.
30:21
Speaker 4: I mean, I would just leave it. I don't smoke,
30:22
Speaker 4: you know, I haven't smoked in thirty years. However, if
30:25
Speaker 4: I would, you know, leave that question out there and
30:27
Speaker 4: didn't fill in any back history or something like that,
30:29
Speaker 4: that could be something that if you go back and
30:31
Speaker 4: find a medical report from when I was twenty and
30:33
Speaker 4: it said that I came in for something and I
30:35
Speaker 4: was a smoker then and I smoked a half a
30:36
Speaker 4: pack of day or whatever, then suddenly that could be
30:38
Speaker 4: something that they would contest, right.
30:40
Speaker 5: I mean, I've had some really and you know, the
30:42
Speaker 5: agents are once the agent, so it's not like your
30:46
Speaker 5: local autobill home owners insurance agent. You can go down
30:49
Speaker 5: the street and talk to like I have run recently
30:52
Speaker 5: where two individuals drove in from a large municipality and
30:59
Speaker 5: the Wealth of Kentucky, probably a five hour drive to
31:03
Speaker 5: go out and door to door, not door to door
31:07
Speaker 5: and homes in very rural area of Putnam County until
31:10
Speaker 5: they find folks. My client was older and actually the
31:16
Speaker 5: person whose life they ended up insuring the insurance company
31:21
Speaker 5: passed away within a month of the time the application
31:23
Speaker 5: was taken and was obviously ill at the time the
31:25
Speaker 5: policy was issued. And because the agencies have they want
31:31
Speaker 5: to sell policies and not to you know, put a
31:35
Speaker 5: blanket overall agents. But just be wary if you have
31:38
Speaker 5: those door to door solicitations for easy insurance. And I
31:42
Speaker 5: guess the biggest thing is if you do want to
31:46
Speaker 5: buy insurance like that, read that questionnaire carefully.
31:50
Speaker 4: And I would guessed now that this is coming from
31:52
Speaker 4: experience on what I've heard on my own station. Unfortunately,
31:54
Speaker 4: but it's a national advertiser, so it's not anybody locally.
31:57
Speaker 4: I just put up the website. It's an insurance life
32:00
Speaker 4: insurance company that that brands himself is a big loop.
32:02
Speaker 4: I mean, you look at the website here, you can't
32:04
Speaker 4: really tell what the radio commercial might sound like, but
32:06
Speaker 4: it's a it's a guy with a very raspy voice
32:09
Speaker 4: that comes from like, hey, what wait for you?
32:11
Speaker 5: One?
32:11
Speaker 4: Are you a number? One? Number two? If you're a
32:13
Speaker 4: little porky around the edge and you need to take
32:15
Speaker 4: care of your family and you need to get some
32:16
Speaker 4: life insurance, different a call because we can give you
32:18
Speaker 4: a million dollars no matter what your health is. And
32:20
Speaker 4: that's right, no cost, no obligations starting now. When you
32:22
Speaker 4: look at it, they I have a feeling these premiums
32:25
Speaker 4: must be incredible. And maybe what it is is you
32:28
Speaker 4: get signed up and then they find waste to not
32:30
Speaker 4: pay later on. I mean, I don't know, but I'm
32:31
Speaker 4: just saying that that when whenever I hear something like that,
32:34
Speaker 4: I get like it sounds sketchy real quick.
32:36
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, trying to call that company and just
32:40
Speaker 5: see if you can get a million dollars insurance. But
32:42
Speaker 5: tell them you have chronic health condition.
32:44
Speaker 4: Right and see what they say, right, because they're specifically
32:46
Speaker 4: like if you're a little porky, you might not that's
32:49
Speaker 4: not you're not quoting verbatim but right from the ad material.
32:53
Speaker 5: But that's uh, yeah, that's the kind of sales push
32:57
Speaker 5: you get. And just door to door type sluss takes
33:00
Speaker 5: are always suspect, they're not always bad necessarily. And if
33:04
Speaker 5: you get a door to door sale, there's a certain
33:07
Speaker 5: time when you can you know, you can quash it.
33:09
Speaker 5: And I bought that subscription, you have a three day right.
33:13
Speaker 4: Really, I didn't know that. Yeah, I had no idea
33:15
Speaker 4: you could do it. Yeah, so if somebody comes door
33:17
Speaker 4: to door and you buy a subscription or something like that,
33:19
Speaker 4: that not something you bought right away. So it's not
33:21
Speaker 4: like if you bought like an item, but like even
33:24
Speaker 4: an item.
33:24
Speaker 5: I think a service or good really I have I
33:27
Speaker 5: haven't had to deal with that in a while, But
33:28
Speaker 5: if you have a question on that, I mean, that's
33:31
Speaker 5: that's what the Attorney General's Office is really good at,
33:33
Speaker 5: is handling consumer because they just they know the law
33:38
Speaker 5: in that. But yeah, there's a three day right to rescind,
33:41
Speaker 5: meaning just you give the product back. You don't get
33:45
Speaker 5: to keep it, but you can.
33:46
Speaker 4: Get your vacuum sellers were nervous back in the day.
33:53
Speaker 5: Get past that then the law changes. It doesn't mean
33:56
Speaker 5: I mean if you have a defective product, or you uh,
33:59
Speaker 5: you were sold a bill of goods that when you
34:03
Speaker 5: got it wasn't what they were you thought you were
34:06
Speaker 5: purchasing because they made a misrepresentation. That's different. Not you
34:10
Speaker 5: still have alternatives there even if you get past the
34:13
Speaker 5: three day.
34:14
Speaker 4: But that's just why I didn't know you could just
34:15
Speaker 4: change your mind.
34:16
Speaker 5: Basically, I believe on those sales and this is not
34:18
Speaker 5: always complied with. And I also don't know how that
34:21
Speaker 5: applies to life insurance either. That's a different ballgame. But
34:25
Speaker 5: other goods and services to consumers, you know you're supposed
34:31
Speaker 5: to have a notice one there your right to rescent.
34:34
Speaker 4: Just like a mortgage or something where you're refinancing, you
34:36
Speaker 4: have a three day recision.
34:38
Speaker 5: Period or what right that's right?
34:39
Speaker 4: Able to do that. That's that's pretty crazy. Just a
34:41
Speaker 4: couple of minutes left in the program. If you want
34:42
Speaker 4: to try to sneak in here, you're more than welcome
34:44
Speaker 4: to on the text line. Threes are a four nine
34:46
Speaker 4: three five five zero zero eight or maybe a phone
34:48
Speaker 4: call at three zerre four three four two eight one
34:49
Speaker 4: three one. Payton Law Firm is a Nitro West Virginia.
34:52
Speaker 4: You can find out more information online. It's Payton Lawfirm
34:54
Speaker 4: dot com p E Y T O in. But you
34:55
Speaker 4: guys do all kinds of stuff. If folks need some
34:58
Speaker 4: help with the law.
34:58
Speaker 5: That's a example. The We also do a lot, you know,
35:01
Speaker 5: we do a lot of a whole lot because we
35:04
Speaker 5: don't we don't turn them out like some some firms do.
35:07
Speaker 5: We do a decent amount of so secure disability, which
35:09
Speaker 5: we don't talk about a whole lot on here. But
35:11
Speaker 5: we used to do a pretty good job because we
35:12
Speaker 5: get you know, we don't have hundreds of them, so
35:14
Speaker 5: we're able to pay particular attention and have some success.
35:17
Speaker 5: But it just had a favorable decision the other other day.
35:20
Speaker 5: You don't think about that, but when somebody can't work,
35:22
Speaker 5: this person have waited four years and it worked thirty years,
35:26
Speaker 5: not somebody that just hadn't really been employed. But then
35:31
Speaker 5: I had an eldest late in life that prevented this
35:34
Speaker 5: person from working any longer. And you think about, well,
35:36
Speaker 5: and yet one he