Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Racing Without Limits: How Just Hands Is Redefining Motorsports for Drivers with Disabilities

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Racing Without Limits: How Just Hands Is Redefining Motorsports for Drivers with Disabilities · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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  BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from
• 0:04
  all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors,
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  designers, and everything in between.
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  Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they
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  get that job or become that person?
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  The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
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  Few, if any sports give people with disabilities, the opportunity to
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  compete with the rest of the world.
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  Yes, we've seen skiers, marathoners, basketball
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  players, and a myriad of others.
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  But unfortunately for these athletes, they are held to a small group
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  that they can compete against.
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  And in our world of arrive and drive track days and racing schools, the overwhelming
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  majority is just standard pedal cars.
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  That being said, the Just Hands Racing Foundation was developed to give anyone
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  who uses hand controls to drive, usually people in wheelchairs, the opportunity
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  to get on track with an instructor.
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  And joining us tonight is Torsten Gross, one of the founders of the Just
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  Hands Racing Foundation, who is a C6 quadriplegic, along with GTM er Mateo
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  Fontana, a C6 C7 quadriplegic, whom many of you have seen at the track
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  racing his hand controlled Audi TT 3.
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  2 Quattro, as well as special guest Tim Horrell, GT4 BMW driver from Fast Track
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  Racing, part of the SRO GT America series.
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  to discuss the world of racing from their unique seating positions.
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  So welcome to break fix gentlemen.
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  So let's go around the horn and talk about how you all got
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  into the situation you're in.
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  Let's talk about your accidents and how it changed your lives.
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  Go ahead Tim.
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  I was hurt in a car accident when I was 21.
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  Happened in my home like up near Pennsylvania where I'm originally from.
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  Single car accident happened on the street.
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  Long story short I guess where they were doing construction on the road.
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  Weeks before they were paving and all that and that night when I was coming home
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  from I wanted to go out and visit my dad.
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  And then when I was coming back to go live with my mom, because I live,
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  I was living with her at the time.
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  So I was going back to my mom's house.
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  There were no more construction trucks or anything.
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  And I had like this car that I love.
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  It was my first car that I bought with my own money.
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  It was like a 2010, um, Hyundai Genesis Coupe.
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  The track model was like for 30, 000.
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  It was like 300 horsepower.
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  It was like perfect.
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  I had that car and I loved that car.
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  And I was coming home from the store that night with it.
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  Just wanted to be out and drive the car.
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  It was a nice night.
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  I saw no more construction workers or any things.
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  I just wanted to have a little bit of fun with it.
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  And little did I know they weren't completely finished there and there
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  were no signs in a certain area.
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  I ran over a spot in the road where they were still doing construction
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  and they lost control of the car.
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  Long story short, like this is where they put me in a wheelchair.
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  What's your injury level?
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  My injury level is like an L1, like a lot lower than yours for sure.
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  I was, I guess, blessed in that sense, like, that it wasn't a complete injury.
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  It was incomplete, and it took me, like, a long while, like, I think it
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  was six months before, like, I could really start to regain, like, movement
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  back, any kind of movement back.
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  To get me to where I am today, primarily use a wheelchair, and then
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  I also can use, like, a walker to walk, just for shorter distances.
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  Well, I'm beyond blessed that I was able to get back what I did get back.
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  So if we walk back in time, Torsten is the next one.
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  And then Matteo, we'll go after July 11th, 1994.
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  I went to the Bahamas Dover in the ocean where it was only three feet deep, but
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  because the water was so crystal clear, the sun beat down on the ocean and
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  magnified it looked about seven feet deep.
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  So I did a deep water dive instead of shallow water dive, broke my neck,
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  36 pieces drowned and was dead for clinically for two and a half minutes.
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  Resuscitated under a semi circle of onlookers.
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  And.
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  I was brought back to life and I could see them pinching going up to
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  my shoulders saying, do you feel this?
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  Do you feel this?
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  And I smile and I go, I'm not getting up from this one.
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  Am I?
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  That was the minute I think everyone knew I would have a sense of humor about it.
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  You asked Eric, you know, how does it change my life?
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  I'll say that, uh, it's going to sound weird, but it's the best thing
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  that could have ever happened to me.
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  I personally don't feel the need to have to walk.
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  I have a great wife, great life.
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  I get to race cars.
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  I get to do a lot of other sports.
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  The only things I can't do is walk up a curb.
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  I get a lot of kind of the same faces when I talk about my accident.
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  I'm like, well, it's actually not that bad.
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  Yeah.
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  We all go through some struggles, but for me, it was, I know
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  it's a hurdle in the road.
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  Now I can't do hurdles anymore, but yeah, it is what it is.
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  And that, that was my accident.
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  Mine happened in.
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  1981, right after high school graduation, I went to the beach, Ocean City, Maryland.
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  It was early in the morning.
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  Big wave was coming and I said, I'm going to dive through it.
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  I dove through it.
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  When I got under it was going to come out the other end.
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  Like you see a bunch of people do that at the beach.
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  The timing was a little off and the wave hit me in the back of
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  the head, snapped my neck, changed the angle of where I was diving.
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  Then I hit the bottom and it snapped again.
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  From then on, it was a C6, C7 injury and I was paralyzed from
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  the neck down, almost drowned.
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  A friend of mine pulled me out, but it was after a while I was getting kicked around
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  by the waves and I couldn't do anything.
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  I mean, I was trying to tread water and the more I moved my
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  arms, the less movement I got.
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  I was losing all my arm movement.
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  When I got on the beach, similar to you, Torsten.
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  I couldn't feel anything.
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  I could move my shoulders, but I felt like I had been run over by a Mack truck.
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  I couldn't breathe, I was spitting out water, all that.
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  Fast forward, I got a experimental surgery done.
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  Once they stabilized me for about three weeks, they moved me to Washington, D.
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  C., to Georgetown, and I had a experimental surgery.
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  That actually kind of work didn't work right away, but I
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  started to get some feeling back.
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  That was the first thing that was coming back gradually.
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  And then after that, the first thing I moved six months later was my big toes.
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  Everybody was jumping up and down for that because they were saying that there
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  was a connection from here all the way down to your feet, which is important.
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  I think it took me about two years before I came home and I
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  did a lot of physical therapy.
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  I was able to walk.
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  a little bit by the time I got home, but I did the rest of it by myself.
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  I was determined.
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  I said, you know, I got this far.
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  I think I can get more out of it.
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  I gave up school for another two years, did eight hours of therapy a day, and
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  then I ended up walking with one cane.
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  And that's when the doors started opening up and ideas kept coming
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  back into my head about things I used to do before, like racing and
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  autocrossing and all those things.
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  But then later in life, I guess age takes its toll on a spinal
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  cord injury and it kind of comes back a little bit to haunt you.
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  I used to use the wheelchair for long distance.
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  Now I use it More.
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  I walk with crutches now, short distances, similar to Tim, and I use the wheelchair a
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  lot more than I wanted to, but it's okay.
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  It is what it is.
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  I can still do a lot of things that I want to do.
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  So life goes on.
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  I think that's what we're here to talk about, that life goes on and
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  you still get to do the things that we love to do if you really put
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  your mind to it and make it happen.
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  And that's.
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  A perfect segue, Mateo.
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  While these accidents did in fact change your lives, it didn't stop any of you from
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  pursuing speed or physical activities.
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  So let's talk about some of the other hobbies that you've been
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  able to maintain over the years and things you've been able to do.
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  So we'll start with Torsten.
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  I think there's some things that would shock people.
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  I'd always said I'm going to keep living life the way I would have
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  if I didn't have my accident.
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  Being an athlete.
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  So I've done things like 12 marathons in 12 months.
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  I skydive, I ski, and I'm also the world's only quadriplegic
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  that is a rescue scuba diver.
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  Now I started tracking cars.
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  To me, anything that tests my life insurance policy is
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  something that I want to do.
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  To my wife, Chagrin, I definitely like adrenaline sports.
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  No question about it.
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  I've learned from my accident that life is so fragile and life can
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  change in a matter of a second.
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  If you have anything that you want to do or pursue in life, then you really should
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  take advantage of that and go for it.
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  Full steam ahead.
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  I tried to go to the gym as much as I always could, like just before
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  the accident because I live in the gym and that's where I'm happy at.
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  Also spending time with my dog, Mac, just living an active lifestyle as possible.
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  I'm skydiving as well.
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  I don't feel like because you got hurt and because you got kind of humbled
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  in a way and showing that you weren't invincible because I guess that's how I
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  felt when I was younger when I got hurt.
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  I got hurt when I was 21.
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  I kind of felt like I was invincible at the time, like nothing could
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  hurt me, nothing, anything.
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  And then I got like a really humbling experience that happened to me that
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  taught me that life is fragile, but also at the same time, if you have
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  something, a passion that you really love or something that you really
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  want to do, you should definitely push to the limits to pursue it.
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  Mateo, if you say you did skydiving as well, I'm at a loss.
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  I'm not brave enough to do that, to have somebody kick
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  me out of the side of a plane.
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  So if we fall down and we break our legs, it doesn't really matter to us.
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  Well, actually, you know, after these two guys talked about
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  their stuff, I don't know.
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  I didn't skydive.
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  But it's not too late, right?
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  Maybe I'll have you, Torsten, take me out.
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  You don't have to do much.
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  You just have to scream on the way down.
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  I may have to put on my plastic underwear too, but anyway.
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  But you did go autocrossing though.
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  You did go into motorsport and you drove a manual transmission vehicle.
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  I mean, that's pretty surprising as well.
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  I was told I would never drive again.
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  You know, I remember getting in my car and it was a stick.
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  I told my dad, don't get rid of it, but in the garage, you
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  know, I just kept getting in it.
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  And trying and trying and trying.
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  One day, my dad said, you know, we should take it out in a parking lot.
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  You should just try and drive it.
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  I really thought I could.
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  And I did.
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  And then I went and took some tests also because I didn't want to be a
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  danger out on the road, but I was able to drive again, stick and autocross.
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  stick.
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  Later in life, I moved to hand controls as well.
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  Cause like I was saying, the aging process takes over.
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  I always enjoyed swimming.
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  I didn't get into any marathons.
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  I always would swim laps.
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  That was really good for my back, my upper body, as well as my lower body.
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  I would be able to kick with my legs some, but they would get tired, but
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  then my upper body would take over.
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  I did scuba dive and I did learn how to do that in Hawaii.
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  With my wife, I did a lot of traveling before having my daughter.
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  We just went everywhere and did a lot of stuff that I thought I'd never do,
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  like climbing into a gondola, the seas moving and trying to get on this thing.
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  And, and I did that.
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  We went from a big boat onto a small boat in the middle of the ocean in the
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  Island of Capri to go see the Blue Grotto.
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  And I had a bunch of Italians look at me like, you're crazy.
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  You're barely walking and you're going to go from one boat to the
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  other in the middle of the ocean.
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  All they did was put them up side by side, but there was like a 12 inch
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  to maybe two foot gap between the two boats with my two canes, trying to get
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  across it and my wife was picturing me with one leg on one boat and one leg
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  on the other, but it didn't happen.
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  It, it all worked out.
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  I just try to always enjoy life to its fullest.
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  Not let this accident stop me.
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  That's for sure.
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  So now we're going to talk a little bit more about everybody's
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  motorsports background.
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  Mattel was heavily influenced by my father, who is a nationally
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  recognized first solo, autocrosser, et cetera, and influenced by the
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  family to get into motorsports.
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  I've spent countless hours talking to Mattel and he's being modest tonight.
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  He is a petrol head through and through.
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  I mean, he has loved cars from an early age, so I'm just going to kind of leave
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  it there, but I want to talk to Torsen and Tim about what got you guys into
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  motorsports and what drove you pun intended into motorsports definitely was
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  like a couple of years after my accident, having to like learn life all over again.
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  At the time I was a electrician.
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  Working for my family business, I had hopes maybe of going to the
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  Marines or something like that.
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  Obviously when the accident happened, everything I knew about
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  life had changed and I had to go about it and do things differently.
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  My love for cars, like I said, was always there before that.
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  The Genesis Coupe that I got and it just was something that I didn't know that
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  I could incorporate more into my life.
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  After accident, but I learned that I could get more out of it than just
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  owning a car or something per se.
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  And because I love the speed, obviously, and it got me in trouble
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  some ways and a part of it may have got me, you know, it did.
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  I can be honest.
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  It got me to where I am now today.
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  A lot of like what got me into racing is.
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  Cause it helped me find my competitive edge again,
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  something I lost when I got hurt.
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  Cause I played baseball, I used to run a lot.
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  When I got hurt, like a lot of those things, I was like gone.
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  I couldn't do any of them anyway.
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  So I was just talking with people that would just help kind of
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  put me in the right direction.
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  And it was actually the therapist that was at McGee.
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  It was, I went down to the center of city, Philadelphia.
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  That's where I was for my rehab.
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  She had said like, well, what, what drives you in life?
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  What makes you happy?
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  And I love cars.
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  Like, I love that.
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  And she's like, well, what can you do with cars?
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  And I didn't really know at the time but I looked more into it and joined like
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  the Porsche Club and first just doing DE events, meeting different people within
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  there and like the red or black students who I thought were like the best in
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  the world when I was a green student.
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  Just to see like that I could still do this and enjoy it like just
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  to see where I could go with it.
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  And then from there, I went into the chin motorsports, like just track days.
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  And I met the late Jim pace, who's the real one who really, I can credit
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  a lot of really got me into racing.
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  I had a GT three at the time was driving that car on track days.
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  And he's like the speed, this thing's going, it's just, it's not safe.
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  And the way you're doing is that you need a proper race car.
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  You should getting into racing and learning more about that.
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  And that's really what got me into racing that I could be as
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  competitive as I wanted to be.
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  Cause I was like, I said a very competitive person.
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  So it kind of helped me find that again, the competitive edge when
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  I'm out there and I'm racing other people, no one really knows I'm hurt
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  or no one really knows anything like until they see me in victory lane.
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  I'm going to be the outlier of this group and say, I'm not a gearhead.
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  I personally still think that there are a lot of mice and gerbils that run really
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  fast in order to make my car go quickly.
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  Because if you were to ask me if there's an engine in my car, I would shrug my
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  shoulders and say, maybe, because I really don't know what's inside of a car.
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  I just know that I know how to drive one.
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  And I say that because having been pulled over 36 times before I was 30
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  years old, three of them going over 125 miles an hour and only getting
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  two speeding tickets in my life.
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  One of them being 65 and one of them being like around 75.
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  And that is you pour water on your lap and say you're handicapped and
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  couldn't find a handicapped bathroom.
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  That gets you out of a lot of tickets really quickly.
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  I'd always loved driving fast and I was never really one though, to think
• 14:56
  that I could get into motor sports.
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  You know, having had an accident of 15, it was just not something that
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  was in my sphere of understanding when we moved up here, right outside of
• 15:05
  Lime Rock, my wife had given me for our anniversary, a track day gift.
• 15:11
  The funny opposite side to that is she handed me a track day gift.
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  I handed her in return.
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  motorcycle lessons.
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  So we're kind of perfect match for each other that we didn't know we
• 15:21
  were giving that to each other.
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  And that's what we got each other for our anniversaries.
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  That's how I got into motor sports.
• 15:27
  Tim, just like you for me, all these sports that I've done in my life and
• 15:31
  I get it that I can say I'm the first and only in the world of doing this
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  or did 12 marathons in 12 months.
• 15:37
  All these accolades are great, right?
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  You know, that's sure.
• 15:40
  I get the inspiration comment all the time, which I think is BS,
• 15:43
  but whatever it is, what it is.
• 15:45
  The thing that bothered me always is that I could never
• 15:47
  compete equally with anybody.
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  And so if we were to go skiing together, we'd never be in the same division.
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  Not even everyone on the phone here, right.
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  Or on this call would be in the same division.
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  Cause we're all different from an injury level, from a function level and all that.
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  We wouldn't be marathoning in the same division.
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  We wouldn't, nothing would be the same.
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  And most of my friends can walk.
• 16:07
  So I'd never be in the same division as them, except for exactly what Tim said.
• 16:12
  No one knows that I'm in chair when I'm on the track and I
• 16:14
  leave my chair in the paddock.
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  It stays there until I come back.
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  And then it's always that moment of, wait, that was you, you
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  know, and it's that smile of yes.
• 16:23
  And by the way, you paid way too much for your Ferrari.
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  You might want to get some racing tires on there because I'm beating
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  you, which is always very annoying, but luckily I'm in a chair.
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  So they will not punch me in the nose.
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  When I make a comment like that, I'm still on my journey of
• 16:36
  understanding motor sports and understanding what's in the car.
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  But I'm doing everything, not just for myself now, but you know, we'll talk
• 16:45
  about in a minute, just hands to me.
• 16:46
  A passion isn't something that you find and then you have to do yourself, but you
• 16:50
  have an obligation to share with others.
• 16:52
  And so I knew that this was a passion when I realized I don't just
• 16:56
  want to buy a race car for myself.
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  I need to buy another one to have other people do it too.
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  And that was the moment I realized I might not be a gear head, but
• 17:04
  I'm definitely into motor sports.
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  And I think it's okay to not be both.
• 17:07
  I think it's very intimidating in the sport.
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  To have to know everything about everything inside of the car.
• 17:15
  And I don't think that that's necessary.
• 17:16
  I think you need to know a lot about the car, building the sport and
• 17:19
  growing the sport also has to be with people like me that are not just a
• 17:23
  gearhead and just want to tinker, but.
• 17:25
  Want to understand what great driving's like.
• 17:27
  That's what Just Dance also teaches, but we'll get into that in a minute.
• 17:30
  Now, I know I put a pin in Mateo and I did that on purpose because there was a
• 17:35
  hiatus between when he was autocrossing and then now that he's doing track events.
• 17:39
  And I think I'm partially to blame for bringing him to the track.
• 17:42
  And I will say this, I took him for a ride in, I don't remember
• 17:45
  which car it was, one of them.
• 17:47
  And I said to you, you're either going to love this or you're going to hate it.
• 17:51
  That was, I think that was all I said.
• 17:53
  And then we went out on track.
• 17:54
  You love it.
• 17:55
  Why?
• 17:56
  And what really brought you to the track?
• 17:58
  Let me drop back.
• 18:00
  I think what drove me to it is I left something out of
• 18:04
  my story at the beginning.
• 18:06
  Before the accident happened, I was always a car guy, a petrol head.
• 18:12
  On the weekend, I used to pull the engine from my car, rebuild
• 18:15
  it, put it back together.
• 18:16
  And have it back in their race and do all that fun stuff.
• 18:20
  What I remember is that yes, I was going to go to college, but my overall goal
• 18:26
  was always to have my own, an auto shop that would build race cars for people.
• 18:32
  So the love of race cars was always in me from a young age.
• 18:37
  I used to live in Italy in a city called Modena.
• 18:41
  We lived very close to the Ferrari factory, so I used to hear it.
• 18:45
  While I was playing with my little Matchbox cars on the
• 18:48
  balcony, I could hear them testing the Ferraris on the racetrack.
• 18:52
  And then, later on, I would watch rally racing.
• 18:55
  And go to the rally races.
• 18:57
  Got the juices flowing in me from a young age.
• 19:00
  So then after my accident, once I got better, I was never completely better.
• 19:06
  I started working on my cars again, modifying them.
• 19:09
  A car was never mine until I put my own signature on it.
• 19:13
  And then together with Eric's dad, we used to do that on the weekends all the time
• 19:19
  because we had to work on during the week.
• 19:21
  But on the weekends, we'd get together and say, Oh, I Got a new set of shocks.
• 19:25
  Let's put them in.
• 19:26
  I'll come over, you know, whatever.
• 19:28
  He got me into autocrossing and then I don't know.
• 19:31
  I think I let the work take over and life took over and I shouldn't have been
• 19:37
  too busy, but I was too busy and just stopped racing and I never should have.
• 19:43
  But Eric's the one who got me into it.
• 19:45
  I sat in his car and he took me around the track.
• 19:48
  He kept bugging me.
• 19:49
  You need to come out to the track.
• 19:51
  You need to come back out to the track.
• 19:53
  I finally went one day and he was out there, went for a ride in his car.
• 19:58
  Of course, when I got back, you know, my wife was waiting for me.
• 20:01
  My smile was probably all the way up to my ears because, you know,
• 20:05
  the adrenaline Eric got me going.
• 20:07
  And and then I was like, I got to do this.
• 20:09
  I got to do this.
• 20:10
  After that, it was history.
• 20:12
  I got back into it and Eric got me going and then he kept saying, Are
• 20:16
  you going to come to this event?
• 20:17
  Are you going to come to this event?
• 20:18
  I better see you out there.
• 20:20
  It's only an hour from your house.
• 20:22
  You don't have any excuses.
• 20:23
  Now I'm here.
• 20:24
  Now I'm in.
• 20:25
  I'll probably stop when I'm 80.
• 20:27
  Maybe I think the best part of that was he shows up at his
• 20:30
  first DE at a station wagon.
• 20:32
  And then the next one, the conversations between that event and the next one
• 20:35
  where I'm buying another car, we're buying another car for the track.
• 20:38
  I got to find a track car.
• 20:40
  And then he settles on the Audi TT, which is a great choice for you.
• 20:44
  It's a great car altogether, but to make both of those cars viable for
• 20:48
  the track, they had to be modified.
• 20:50
  People may not know listening to this, that there are different kinds
• 20:53
  of hand controls and vehicle setups.
• 20:55
  Each one of you probably have different variations on a theme.
• 20:59
  There's a lack of standardizations.
• 21:01
  There's tons of other mods to consider.
• 21:03
  I want to kind of dive into that.
• 21:04
  I want people to understand how it works.
• 21:06
  They're probably scratching their heads going, how are you guys driving
• 21:10
  on track with just your hands?
• 21:12
  How does this work exactly?
• 21:13
  Cause as we were putting together the foundation car, this was
• 21:16
  one of the biggest issues that there is no standardization.
• 21:19
  There are three main ways of driving.
• 21:23
  One is you steer with your left and you give throttle and break with your right.
• 21:28
  Another is you steer with your right, give throttle and brake with your left.
• 21:33
  And then there is a version of what's called the Guido Simplex, where it
• 21:37
  is all integrated onto the steering wheel itself, where you push a ring.
• 21:43
  You can pull a ring, but it's all integrated into the steering wheel itself.
• 21:47
  Those are the three main versions.
• 21:49
  Now there are always offshoots onto all of those that are versions of each.
• 21:54
  Those are kind of the three main ways of thinking about hand controls.
• 21:57
  So I've seen Tim's car and there'll be pictures in the follow on article of that.
• 22:01
  I've seen my tail's car, which is a drive by left hand.
• 22:03
  And the Guido Simplex is what Alex Zanardi uses in the Le Mans car.
• 22:08
  Tim, you drive with steering on the hand, on the wheel itself, right?
• 22:11
  Yeah.
• 22:12
  Yeah.
• 22:12
  I was going to say like, so the, my throttle ring, it's kind of like a
• 22:14
  Guido Simplex on the front of the wheel, but it's like Kempf, it's K E M P F.
• 22:19
  I control the car with my thumbs, kind of just pushing the thumbs
• 22:22
  where I can grab behind the wheel and shift with the paddles, which allows
• 22:25
  me like, I'd never done autocross.
• 22:26
  I've seen, I've seen, it looks very fun, but the kind of racing I do, like the road
• 22:30
  racing, like you could be going around a corner at a hundred plus miles an hour and
• 22:34
  have the car like want to step out on you.
• 22:36
  So I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it with not both hands on the wheel.
• 22:40
  Whereas, like, for autocrossing, I don't, I've never done it, so I
• 22:42
  can't say, but I would maybe feel comfortable driving, like I drive my
• 22:46
  truck, it's like a push pull system.
• 22:48
  So it's like the ring around the inside of the wheel, I push towards the wheel, like,
• 22:52
  with my thumbs for gas, and then there's a brake on the right hand side, that's
• 22:56
  mechanical, that I push away from me.
• 22:58
  For the break.
• 22:59
  So the only time I have my hands off the wheel in theory is only when
• 23:02
  I'm coming into a breaking zone.
• 23:04
  I'll say mine's called a rock throttle.
• 23:08
  It's similar to a push pull.
• 23:10
  You push the brake and I have the hand controls on the left, hold
• 23:13
  the steering wheel with the right.
• 23:15
  It's mounted so close because the throttle comes upward.
• 23:20
  And so I have my hand on the throttle that I pulled back to
• 23:24
  throttle and push in for the break.
• 23:27
  The way it's.
• 23:28
  Positioned I keep a thumb on the wheel.
• 23:30
  I can help myself hold the wheel.
• 23:32
  I make it work I didn't realize there were versions like you all
• 23:37
  lyrics which are obviously nicer.
• 23:39
  I feel like I'm pretty safe I wouldn't do it if I wasn't safe the way I do
• 23:43
  it works fine for me the bad part I mean with hand controls, you can
• 23:48
  never flag somebody by by putting your hand through That doesn't work.
• 23:52
  You got to use your turn signal.
• 23:53
  That's the only way.
• 23:54
  No, true.
• 23:55
  Don't say that.
• 23:56
  These are myths that bother me because these are the reasons why people
• 24:01
  start saying that people in chairs can't do HPDE, that it's not safe.
• 24:06
  And we don't want to do the blinker version.
• 24:08
  And Audi, by the way, love them because I do love the blinker version.
• 24:12
  So I did Audi NEQ.
• 24:14
  I'm here in the Northeast, they're absolutely fantastic.
• 24:17
  And every other sanctioning body that I've been with does point buys.
• 24:20
  Fine, I'll do a point buy and we can talk about how I do that in a minute.
• 24:23
  But when I went to Audi and EQ, I was really happy to see that they did blinker
• 24:27
  version like everybody in Europe does.
• 24:29
  It's the right thing to do, but there's so many myths to people driving in
• 24:33
  chairs that we can't do certain things that I have had enough arguments
• 24:38
  to say that I can get on the track.
• 24:41
  Because I can be equal and I can do what you do and I can do it just as safely,
• 24:45
  so let me on by all means, Torson.
• 24:48
  I wasn't saying that I couldn't do it.
• 24:50
  I am doing it with the turn signal, but they didn't want the
• 24:53
  point by I have done as well.
• 24:56
  The problem is with the way my hand control works.
• 25:00
  When I do a point by my hand controls on the left, and I do a point by
• 25:04
  I stick my hand out the window.
• 25:06
  That means I let go of the throttle.
• 25:08
  So I'm slowing down and the people behind me don't like it because
• 25:12
  they don't see me slowing down.
• 25:14
  That's the only thing.
• 25:15
  If I use the turn signal, it's business as usual, and nobody
• 25:18
  knows anything different.
• 25:20
  But the point buys, right?
• 25:21
  Are a little bit harder with the way my hand control works before we talk about
• 25:25
  point by though eric I think you're well, you're bringing up those a valid question
• 25:29
  about hand controls And I think europe does it way better than we do where?
• 25:33
  They have the majority of their hand controls are right throttle
• 25:37
  and brake and left brake Drive.
• 25:39
  And here it's 70 percent left throttle and brake and right steering.
• 25:45
  However, within the last three years to five years, I think it is, the majority
• 25:50
  of people are being taught, are taught now to drive with their right hand.
• 25:54
  And steer with their left, which is a fundamentally better way of driving
• 25:57
  anyway, because of lack of fatigue and how you're positioned in the car
• 26:01
  and where your face is pointing when you're looking in the car, driving
• 26:05
  with your left hand way more efficient and you can rest your hand more.
• 26:10
  Both of your arms more and the way it positions your body, it
• 26:13
  positions it into the car versus out of the car in this country.
• 26:17
  Unfortunately, we don't have the standardization.
• 26:19
  Now I'm wanting to say, if you find what you're good at, stick with it.
• 26:24
  I never want to change anybody's drive pattern before they get onto the track.
• 26:28
  Well, for our foundation, we actually have left and right hand controls because
• 26:32
  I didn't want anybody showing up to the track and going, Oh, you're left throttle.
• 26:36
  Well, you know, you're about to go 110 miles an hour, but can you
• 26:40
  do it with your right hand first?
• 26:42
  There's no version of that story that turns out well for anybody.
• 26:44
  We worked with the manufacturer to actually put in both, so that somebody
• 26:48
  could be comfortable on the track.
• 26:49
  It was a very hard thing to do.
• 26:51
  Now that's not normal.
• 26:52
  You only usually have one or the other, whichever one you
• 26:55
  are most comfortable with.
• 26:57
  We thought to have kind of an arrive and drive system, that
• 27:00
  would be the right thing to do.
• 27:01
  It's funny you mentioned steer with the left and do the functions with
• 27:04
  the right, because that's the same dynamic as if you were driving a
• 27:08
  manual transmission car, right?
• 27:10
  It's the grip of death with the left arm as you're changing gears and taking
• 27:13
  one arm off of the steering wheel.
• 27:15
  So to me, I think if I was in your guy's position, that would seem more natural.
• 27:20
  You're now in an automatic and my right arm needs to do something.
• 27:23
  Let me control the throttle and the brake that way.
• 27:25
  And you know, it makes passing easier, all this stuff that we're going to talk
• 27:28
  about, but I think we need to take this a step further and I'm going to look
• 27:31
  to Tim to the way his BMW is built.
• 27:33
  It's not just hand controls, it's the rest of the modifications.
• 27:36
  So in SRO, There's some races that are longer, maybe you're doing driver
• 27:41
  changes, you know, depending on the stint and depending on the series that
• 27:44
  you're in and things like that, well, let's talk about locking down your
• 27:48
  legs, about spire suppression, getting in and out of the car, especially if
• 27:51
  you have, you move up to something with a roll bar or a roll cage, how
• 27:55
  does all that work for you in the BMW?
• 27:57
  Something that the serious definitely wants to see before they let you out
• 28:00
  there and race their number one concern with anything is safety for any driver.
• 28:05
  They make sure you get out of the car.
• 28:06
  Like I said, I can walk with a walker.
• 28:08
  So I do have like limited use of my lower legs, my knee down.
• 28:12
  I really can't feel or move anything, but I still have the ability to move my
• 28:15
  legs enough to, and then use my upper body, like to lift myself out of the car.
• 28:19
  When you get out of the car, if it's an emergency, like I could just get
• 28:21
  out of the car and throw myself on the ground and push away if I had to.
• 28:24
  I don't know for HPDE, they never asked me to get out of the car like that.
• 28:28
  I did it because I want to go racing and I'm doing skip bar racing school
• 28:31
  next week and all that kind of stuff and I got my SCCA license and I wanted
• 28:35
  to make sure because I'm chest down.
• 28:37
  I wanted to make sure I could get out and so we put a mattress on the ground.
• 28:41
  And I've got a roll cage, I've got fire suppression, I've got a removable
• 28:44
  steering wheel, all that kind of fun stuff, six point harness, and I strap
• 28:47
  my legs down because, you know, when you're hitting G forces going around
• 28:51
  turns one, you don't want it to hit the steering wheel or break, but to
• 28:55
  like anybody, even able body, you want to be one with the car, right?
• 28:59
  You want no movement whatsoever.
• 29:00
  So I locked down my legs, but then the question becomes,
• 29:04
  well, if I want to egress.
• 29:05
  That just adds another layer.
• 29:07
  I'm actually able to get out in six seconds.
• 29:09
  So I've now practiced it.
• 29:11
  Tear my legs, like tear the Velcro off, snap the six point harness,
• 29:15
  pop open the door, and I'm literally throwing myself out of the car.
• 29:19
  I mean, I'm on the ground outside of the car.
• 29:22
  But I'm out of the car that I can do in six seconds.
• 29:25
  If I were to have to push fire suppression, maybe
• 29:28
  add another second or two.
• 29:29
  But we also put in heat sensitive fire suppression versus having to pull the
• 29:33
  trigger because my thought was if I'm ever going to get to an accident, that is.
• 29:37
  Bad enough that needs fire suppression.
• 29:39
  There's a good chance I'm not going to be conscious for that.
• 29:41
  So we did it with heat sensitive fire suppression that just goes on it.
• 29:45
  I forgot what the temperature is, but it'll just start itself.
• 29:48
  So we actually figured out the whole system because I thought if I can't
• 29:52
  get out, why even try and go racing?
• 29:54
  I'm going to get stopped at some point.
• 29:56
  So let me curb my own enthusiasm as to what heights I can get.
• 30:00
  But once I got out in six seconds.
• 30:02
  I was like, I can do this, right?
• 30:04
  And I'm a quad.
• 30:04
  So if I can do it a lot better, anyone else can do it too.
• 30:07
  For sure.
• 30:08
  I mean, like you said, being one with the car officer, like they, my
• 30:10
  team made me like a seat that's like really like custom since I, we don't
• 30:14
  have a lot of atrophy in my legs.
• 30:16
  So I can't really sit in a normal seat and be comfortable.
• 30:19
  So my team made me a seat.
• 30:20
  Where it kind of like goes in between my legs as well and
• 30:23
  kind of keeps my legs apart.
• 30:24
  And we still haven't mastered keeping the feet still.
• 30:26
  It was like you said, the G forces, like the feet move around.
• 30:29
  I don't want it to be dragging on the brakes or something, or I would
• 30:32
  never be able to tell a difference.
• 30:33
  I wouldn't be able to feel.
• 30:34
  And obviously with the way my hand controls work, it disables the gas pedal.
• 30:38
  My one foot kind of goes off to the right on the dead pedal.
• 30:40
  My other foot goes in the gas pedal.
• 30:42
  It works that way and we use like tape at the moment.
• 30:45
  If I need to get out of the car, I showed the marshals
• 30:47
  and like the safety officials.
• 30:48
  I can just rip my legs out or grab my legs and rip the tape and I can get out safely.
• 30:52
  Yeah.
• 30:53
  I'm happy to show you, Tim.
• 30:54
  If you want some help, I'll show you what I do.
• 30:57
  It's funny you say that.
• 30:58
  When I got my first car, when I got my race car, it's an E92 M3.
• 31:03
  It's actually a Lime Rock edition.
• 31:04
  And I raced at Lime Rock, so go figure.
• 31:06
  But I get the car.
• 31:07
  The first thing I do is autocross.
• 31:08
  And they said, Just so you know, race breaks are really hard.
• 31:13
  Like you just got to jam on those things.
• 31:14
  They're going to jam really hard.
• 31:16
  They're going to stop the car really fast, but kind of hit them hard.
• 31:19
  And I'm going, okay, I can do this.
• 31:21
  I can do this.
• 31:22
  So I get in the car, I'm all strapped up.
• 31:23
  I'm I'm doing autocross.
• 31:25
  My legs are just flying around everywhere, but I'm jamming on the
• 31:28
  brakes and I get home and my wife says.
• 31:31
  Why is your right foot so swollen?
• 31:33
  And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 31:35
  And I looked down and we looked back at the video.
• 31:38
  My right foot slid under the brake and the whole autocross, I am jamming down
• 31:43
  on the brake and the brake pedal is going directly into the arch of my foot.
• 31:47
  And I broke it in two places.
• 31:49
  And that is the only exciting story I get to tell about me and like
• 31:52
  autocross or anything track going wrong.
• 31:54
  And that's a lesson you only learn once.
• 31:56
  I have to learn once, but that was the moment where I realized, look, I was
• 32:00
  still able to stop and that's fine, but I don't want to test that theory again.
• 32:04
  But here we're going to now start locking down my feet.
• 32:07
  In some pictures you'll see on my website, I have one black
• 32:10
  shoe on and one white shoe.
• 32:11
  And that's because the black shoe was the, after you go to the hospital here.
• 32:15
  Do this to immobilize your leg.
• 32:16
  And my only response was I did that 27 years ago.
• 32:19
  I don't need to immobilize it anymore, but I decided to wear the boot anyway.
• 32:24
  That's why we strapped down our legs.
• 32:26
  I'm more than happy to show you what I'm doing and what we're
• 32:29
  doing for different people.
• 32:30
  And if you can take some tips from a great, if not, you know, no worries.
• 32:34
  Totally wanted to ask you for that.
• 32:37
  You know, as I am getting worse, my legs move around quite a bit.
• 32:41
  I don't have the strength anymore to like hold them in
• 32:44
  place, even on the dead pedal.
• 32:46
  Sometimes my foot will pop off of there when you're going around a turn.
• 32:50
  The last thing I want to do is reach down there to try to move it.
• 32:54
  You know, you need your hands to do the stuff that you do.
• 32:57
  So yeah, I would love to know how and where you get the
• 33:00
  stuff to kind of set that up.
• 33:02
  Cause that'll make me feel better and race better.
• 33:05
  You know, knowing that my leg is secure.
• 33:07
  Yeah.
• 33:07
  No problem, Tim, I'll tell you, you've got a little easier.
• 33:10
  So, and this is for people listening to that might be in chairs, two things.
• 33:14
  One's kind of a mid level and then one's a more expensive, harder level.
• 33:18
  Easy level is I bought racing shoes and I bought OMP.
• 33:21
  I think they're called first and they've got a Velcro strap.
• 33:24
  That goes around the ankle.
• 33:26
  I don't actually close that onto my ankle because I don't really need it,
• 33:29
  but I have a piece of Velcro that is kind of screwed down on the diamond plate.
• 33:34
  That's on the bottom of the car.
• 33:36
  And that just touches my shoe.
• 33:38
  When I get in the car, the corner worker needs to yank me out.
• 33:41
  It's only about two inches worth of Velcro, but it's very
• 33:44
  strong, strong enough that the G forces won't rip that off.
• 33:46
  But.
• 33:47
  Not strong enough so that when a corner worker tries to yank me out that
• 33:51
  it'll stop anything So that's kind of the mid level very easy way of doing
• 33:55
  it The next level up though tim for you is you're wearing a fire suit.
• 33:59
  I'm six foot five So i'm either gonna have to find a freakishly tall fire
• 34:03
  suit or i'm gonna have to have one custom made I haven't gone down that
• 34:06
  road yet, but i'm terrified of the cost of what it's gonna cost to I want
• 34:11
  to put Velcro on the outside of my legs so that I can then Velcro them to
• 34:18
  different parts of the car where I know my legs are going to be, because if
• 34:22
  you wrap your legs, meaning wrap them and strap them down, then it's harder
• 34:27
  for a corner worker to pull you out.
• 34:29
  But if you have one side of fire suit and then the other side on the
• 34:33
  car, that's easy enough to tear off.
• 34:35
  But it's, it's strong enough to keep you in while you're doing the G forces.
• 34:39
  So you might want to consider that Tim as well.
• 34:41
  Yeah.
• 34:43
  Yeah, for sure.
• 34:43
  Yeah.
• 34:44
  Anything like for both of you, I guess, just the comfort's the main thing and
• 34:47
  becoming one with the car for sure.
• 34:49
  So it's definitely something that's worth looking into.
• 34:52
  Thank you.
• 34:53
  Yeah.
• 34:53
  So being the lay person here, I had some thoughts listening to you guys.
• 34:56
  Cause my MacGyver brain is always working to your point about the
• 35:00
  Velcro Velcro seems to be the solution in a lot of cases here.
• 35:03
  Yeah.
• 35:04
  But maybe modifying a pair of shoes to have the soles have
• 35:08
  the hook part of the Velcro.
• 35:10
  And think about this in a passenger vehicle, right?
• 35:12
  HPD, you're required to take out your floor mats and all that kind
• 35:14
  of stuff so they don't slide around.
• 35:16
  So let's say the bottom of your shoes had the hook part.
• 35:19
  You could basically stand your foot, let's say your, your right leg up.
• 35:23
  That would be square on the ground and maybe have some fuzzy side of the Velcro
• 35:27
  fix the dead pedal, and then you're hooked to the car, basically putting yourself
• 35:31
  in there with these special shoes that you've modified, like something like
• 35:34
  that, to your point, maybe more of a lower budget idea, not strong enough
• 35:38
  that if somebody needs to rip you out a car, you need to rip yourself out.
• 35:41
  That you could make those mods.
• 35:43
  So something to think about there, get creative.
• 35:44
  But I think Velcro is the answer at the end of the day.
• 35:47
  It's shoes and it's knees as well.
• 35:49
  So your knees not moving that actually, because your knees are heavier than
• 35:53
  your feet, your knees will tend to, at least for a lot of the people
• 35:56
  I've seen drive will tend to move first, which then move your feet.
• 35:59
  If you can actually mobilize your knees first.
• 36:02
  It's different for everybody.
• 36:02
  That's the problem.
• 36:03
  So when we have people hop in the car, it's a 20 minute to 30 minute
• 36:07
  conversation, kind of like when you go skiing or when you go biking, or when
• 36:11
  you quite frankly, even if you're able bodied, when you get into a race car, you
• 36:15
  don't just say, Hey, hop in this race car.
• 36:17
  Good luck.
• 36:18
  You adjust all the straps.
• 36:19
  You make sure that the car is ready for you.
• 36:22
  You don't just kind of say good luck with that.
• 36:24
  And that's the same thing for us too, right?
• 36:26
  Tim's going to be different than Matteo than me, but we're
• 36:29
  all different inside of a car.
• 36:31
  Two questions to add to this that people might be thinking as an
• 36:34
  example, when you're in racing, especially, let's say you're a
• 36:37
  rookie, they put an X on your car.
• 36:39
  So it denotes that you're a rookie.
• 36:41
  Do they put anything special on your guys cars to denote that you do have
• 36:44
  a disability and to not mess and not to say not to mess with you, but it
• 36:48
  would be the worst thing in the world to door somebody or cause a shunt.
• 36:52
  And you're like, Oh crap, I put them in a situation that was terrible.
• 36:55
  They could have been easily avoided.
• 36:56
  Getting rid of the red Miss, do they make you guys mark
• 36:59
  your cars appropriately or No?
• 37:00
  I tell everybody that we are no different than anybody else on the track because if
• 37:05
  you think about, we've been driving on the street and we have the exact same license
• 37:09
  that anybody else does, so we get to drive just as well as anybody else does,
• 37:13
  or just as badly as anybody else does.
• 37:16
  The fact that we use hand controls doesn't make us any better or worse of a driver.
• 37:20
  It makes us a different driver, but I think why it scares people so
• 37:24
  much is because it is so foreign to them, to people that don't do it.
• 37:28
  So because it's different, it scares them.
• 37:30
  When in reality, I look at foot pedal driving and I go, that scares
• 37:34
  the living beep out of me because I wouldn't know how to do that.
• 37:37
  But hand control driving, it's come so naturally to me because I've
• 37:40
  been doing it for so long that I'm a great driver just with my hands.
• 37:44
  I would feel weird if somebody were to say, well, use a disabled driver.
• 37:48
  To me, it's um, we're trying to normalize it.
• 37:51
  I 100 percent understand why you would ask that question.
• 37:54
  And it makes sense.
• 37:56
  To me, what it is, is it's not the disability.
• 37:58
  There needs to be a cutoff of who can or cannot drive.
• 38:01
  Once you get to the point that you're talking about where it's, Oh, it's a
• 38:05
  disabled driver, we should be a little more careful around that person.
• 38:09
  They shouldn't be on the track because that means that they're a quadriplegic
• 38:12
  that can't use their triceps or they just don't have certain function or
• 38:16
  their spasms are too bad and you know, it would be dangerous on the track.
• 38:20
  They shouldn't be on the track.
• 38:22
  So no matter what, it needs to be a safety conversation.
• 38:25
  First.
• 38:26
  Before anything, and I would say the same thing for somebody able body, if they
• 38:30
  have seizures or if they have any type of other issues that they can't control,
• 38:35
  they shouldn't be on the track either.
• 38:37
  No, they just put a big X behind me.
• 38:40
  I mean, I don't know, Tim or Matteo, they did differently for you, but
• 38:43
  I wouldn't think they would have.
• 38:45
  That's when I started out in the amateur level racing, it's just like HSR, SVRA,
• 38:48
  like pushup racing, things like that.
• 38:50
  I don't remember anything on my car then, to be honest.
• 38:53
  Well, I think they put.
• 38:54
  Something on my car now at the professional level, it's like a
• 38:56
  wheelchair picture and I didn't really want it on the car.
• 38:59
  They told me it really wasn't for the other drivers or anything like they
• 39:02
  say you're safe enough, you're good enough to race this level, but it's
• 39:04
  more so so the corner workers know or something that this car has somebody.
• 39:08
  I wasn't going to argue it is what it is at this point and or it's
• 39:11
  just like when I pass people then at least they know they got passed
• 39:13
  by somebody that's in a wheelchair.
• 39:16
  It's a point of pride.
• 39:17
  It's a point of pride.
• 39:18
  That is perfect.
• 39:18
  That is perfect.
• 39:19
  I don't really want it on the car.
• 39:20
  I don't want people to know I'm in a wheelchair.
• 39:22
  But then if I'm going to be passing on the track anyway, then like, at
• 39:24
  least you're going to know you got passed by someone in a wheelchair.
• 39:26
  So my second question is for all of you guys and for all of you.
• 39:32
  That I've also had experience driving a pedal car before your accidents.
• 39:37
  One of the questions that comes up a lot and came up even recently
• 39:40
  before we recorded this was what's it like to break with your hands?
• 39:44
  Because your feet have a certain level of feeling and finesse, right?
• 39:47
  Especially if you're running a clutch and, you know, heel, toe, downshifting,
• 39:50
  all this kind of stuff that you feel the pedals and you're doing certain
• 39:53
  things and the pressure applied and how you trail break and threshold
• 39:56
  breaking and all that, what's it like?
• 39:57
  What's it like braking with your hands?
• 39:59
  Do you have the same sort of response or do you get the same sort of
• 40:03
  feedback from the brakes through your hands and went through your feet?
• 40:06
  I guess I should mention too, like I also for training for racing,
• 40:09
  I'd also drive like carts, my coach William Pete's his name.
• 40:13
  He was hurt in a, um, carting accident in Brazil when he was like 18.
• 40:17
  Now he's in his 50s, but he developed a whole hand control
• 40:20
  system on the wheel of a cart.
• 40:21
  So it's kind of like a jet ski throttle on your left thumb and then like a crotch
• 40:25
  rocket or like a street bike master cylinder brake like on your right hand.
• 40:29
  Keeping your legs in place for that compared to a car a lot easier.
• 40:32
  The sheer fact the more g forces, no seatbelts, nothing in a cart and
• 40:37
  just how more physically abusive it is to your body, it definitely is.
• 40:40
  It's much harder than in the car, but it allows me to feel everything.
• 40:45
  So when, when I go to get in the car, everything's slowed way down.
• 40:48
  All my reaction times are quickened much, much quicker.
• 40:51
  The brakes are different and the car is the perfect part, but it's
• 40:53
  still like the feeling aspects of it.
• 40:55
  Like I never really drove a car like at that limit, like with my feet.
• 40:59
  So it's hard to, I guess, answer that question fully, but in
• 41:01
  the car, like I have a lot of travel, I guess, with my brakes.
• 41:04
  So I can get a lot of leverage on it as opposed to having just
• 41:07
  a little bit in a race car.
• 41:08
  As Torsten mentioned, it's like a heavy break and I need
• 41:11
  to match my teammate's break.
• 41:12
  He's doing it with his feet.
• 41:13
  I'm having to put like 1200 PSI, 1100 PSI into all the heavy breaking zones
• 41:18
  on the track around the lap, but like the heavy breaking zones, I really
• 41:21
  have to like lay in a break and push hard, like 1100, 1200, 1300 PSI.
• 41:25
  Like the biggest thing where.
• 41:27
  I struggle to, like, my teammate, Rafa Matos is my teammate, is just being
• 41:30
  able to not initially hit the brake, the initial threshold brake, but it's just
• 41:34
  coming off the brake and carrying as much maximum speed to the apex as possible.
• 41:38
  That's where I lose time to him still.
• 41:40
  Like, I mean, within like a second of him, but still to carry, like, hit the
• 41:44
  brake, slow the car down immediately, like, enough just at first, but then trail
• 41:47
  off the brake while holding the hand with one wheel to carry the speed to get to
• 41:50
  the apex quicker, if that makes sense.
• 41:52
  Whereas like our apex speeds are the same.
• 41:54
  We go back on power roughly at the same time.
• 41:56
  It's just like, that's the best part of me where I struggle.
• 41:59
  It's just like getting the car slowed down, I guess, efficiently enough.
• 42:02
  We're still carrying enough speed to the apex.
• 42:04
  It's something that I guess I've only learned with my hands.
• 42:07
  So I guess it's hard to say what it would be like with my feet, but.
• 42:10
  I mean, I drive also in sim racers.
• 42:11
  I, I don't have any feeling in that break.
• 42:14
  I kind of raked it to where it's kind of very similar to my car.
• 42:16
  That's okay.
• 42:17
  Nobody does it.
• 42:17
  You're, you're a good company.
• 42:19
  I learned car like this way at the race BD, amateur racing, not professional,
• 42:25
  like to feel with my hand and to feel like when I get into the ABS.
• 42:28
  I've made it work and still constantly trying to better myself.
• 42:32
  For me, I play with where the hand controls attached to the brake stem.
• 42:36
  So depending on the track that I'm at and how hard I need to brake, I'll either
• 42:40
  raise it and the higher up it goes, the faster it's going to break in, right?
• 42:44
  Because then you only have to push down a little bit.
• 42:47
  The further down it goes, the more travel I have in the break.
• 42:50
  There's a guy that helps us out.
• 42:52
  He's worked on a lot of cars.
• 42:53
  His name is Eric Harkrader.
• 42:54
  He's been helping us transform the Just Hands car.
• 42:58
  As he should, he starts using the hand controls just for fun.
• 43:02
  He comes back after about a week and he's like, You have more control over the brake
• 43:07
  with your hands than I do with my feet.
• 43:10
  And I was like, well, that's interesting that you're saying that somebody that
• 43:13
  knows a lot about cars because it is such a subtle move with your hand.
• 43:17
  It is easier than with your foot.
• 43:18
  And the third thing I'll say is your hand eye coordination is faster
• 43:22
  than your hand foot coordination.
• 43:24
  So you have more sensitivity in your hands.
• 43:27
  That you can use to kind of be delicate with your hand controls
• 43:30
  than you would with your feet.
• 43:32
  They're very negligible changes or very minute changes between foot and hands.
• 43:37
  It took me a while to figure out trailbraking and how I can really
• 43:41
  trail break now I can do it.
• 43:43
  So my data is the same as anybody else's data is like, you
• 43:46
  wouldn't be able to see mine.
• 43:48
  But I used to come off the brake way too fast, really fast.
• 43:51
  And then we lowered it down on the brake stem where it attaches.
• 43:54
  And now you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between me and somebody else.
• 43:57
  But it's a very valid question.
• 43:59
  I mean, very valid.
• 44:00
  I have like a pedal box.
• 44:02
  That's also mount on the floor.
• 44:03
  So it's not as opposed to like, I guess the hanging pedals like
• 44:05
  you might have Torsen, right?
• 44:06
  Yes.
• 44:07
  So I really can't move where it's mounted on the back of the brake pedal.
• 44:10
  I can't move it at all.
• 44:11
  So it's just that one.
• 44:13
  Since it's a floor mounted pedal box.
• 44:15
  Okay.
• 44:15
  You just gave me another problem to solve.
• 44:17
  So sweet.
• 44:18
  Another weekend, not talking to my wife.
• 44:19
  That's great.
• 44:21
  Well, to your point, Torsten, if there was some sort of thing that you could
• 44:25
  add, that would work on either hanging pedals or floor pedals, where you
• 44:30
  could add it to the back of the pedal and say, bolt it on, and it would give
• 44:32
  you almost like an adjustable sway bar, you know, three or four points.
• 44:36
  To mount your hand control, to change the leverage point, right?
• 44:40
  'cause that's what you're doing is you're changing that the angle to
• 44:43
  decrease or increase the leverage on the pedal, then that would work for
• 44:46
  either of these types of pedal boxes.
• 44:47
  Just that piece needs to be created.
• 44:49
  It would have to be like strong enough to also withstand like 1300 PSI and and 1200
• 44:53
  PSI press like lap after lap after that.
• 44:55
  Absolutely.
• 44:56
  Absolutely.
• 44:57
  Yeah.
• 44:57
  Like a different story.
• 44:58
  But where actually hand control brake on me down in like,
• 45:01
  um, Miami Homestead Speedway.
• 45:03
  Which was scary enough that break just like I guess there's an aluminum part
• 45:06
  that's to the pedal and that was like from four hanging pedals, but just wanted to go
• 45:10
  to the break and it felt like essentially like break was just hanging and dangling.
• 45:13
  I feel like I lost my brakes and the pedal went to the floor.
• 45:15
  It doesn't make sense.
• 45:16
  So it's just something that even though my engineer, like I told him I wanted to
• 45:20
  race with this team and then basically they developed as quick as they could.
• 45:23
  And they made it as best as they could.
• 45:25
  It's not the best for me, but I'm learning and still adapting to it.
• 45:27
  For them, with the amount of time that they had to do it, it's very good.
• 45:31
  Maybe my arm could be a little longer, I wish.
• 45:33
  Make it a little easier to push the brake pedal as hard as I push
• 45:35
  it, to maybe not fatigue as quick.
• 45:37
  We'll talk, because I'm actually chatting with BMW and with Weigel and like
• 45:41
  the people that do my hand controls.
• 45:43
  And we have a conversation going where we can open that up for more.
• 45:48
  I'm not going to say R and D that gets a little too official to have some
• 45:51
  conversations where, what can we do?
• 45:54
  You and I have different functions.
• 45:55
  So I don't have much finger function.
• 45:56
  You have full finger function.
• 45:57
  So you're going to have a different control than me.
• 46:00
  Let me see how I can help.
• 46:01
  I would love to help you.
• 46:02
  Maybe it'll help other people too.
• 46:03
  And that's all I want to do.
• 46:05
  See, it's your guy's version of pedal extenders.
• 46:07
  You know, we get the bigger ones to do heel toe.
• 46:09
  It's, it's the equivalent, right?
• 46:11
  But Matteo, do you want to chime in on what it's like to break with your hands?
• 46:14
  Actually, I used hand controls later in life.
• 46:18
  I feel like for me, it's a lot easier.
• 46:20
  It feels easier to break with my hands.
• 46:23
  I feel like I'm more accurate.
• 46:25
  Even my response time is faster than when I used to drive with my legs.
• 46:30
  I feel really comfortable with the hand controls.
• 46:32
  And now I'm inspired to go explore the system that Thorsten and Tim use,
• 46:38
  because I think it will definitely be a step up in what I'm doing.
• 46:41
  And I think I could be even better.
• 46:43
  Well, you should come up to the foundation.
• 46:45
  We'll give you what you can, you can use our E92 and track our
• 46:48
  car and you can test them out.
• 46:50
  That would be great.
• 46:51
  So Tim brought up something really important, 1300 pounds
• 46:54
  of pressure that he's putting on that brake pedal to stop the car.
• 46:58
  When you're pushing with your legs, is it the same amount of pressure?
• 47:01
  Is that the equivalent amount that you're able to produce by stepping on the pedal?
• 47:05
  Or do you actually generate more force because more muscles are involved coming
• 47:10
  out of your shoulder, your lats, your tris, et cetera, by ramming down on
• 47:14
  that arm and pushing the brake pedal?
• 47:16
  Is there really an equivalent same brake pedal pushing?
• 47:19
  Like when my teammate pushes the brake pedal, the hand control moves, you can
• 47:23
  see it in our onboard video, just really only like how they mount on the pedal.
• 47:26
  And I guess it's, it's harder from my standpoint with
• 47:29
  the floor amount of pedals.
• 47:30
  It all depends on how long they make the bar coming towards me, how long
• 47:32
  I guess they make the horizontal bar and get me leverage, but I still have
• 47:37
  to push the pedal down as hard as him.
• 47:39
  I guess you might say like, I have more.
• 47:41
  Feeling I may have quicker reaction time with my hand, because like Torsten was
• 47:44
  saying, your hand to eye coordination is quicker than your hand to feet.
• 47:47
  I'm doing it with less muscles than him.
• 47:49
  He has his whole glute muscle, his whole hamstring, his whole leg, which is one
• 47:53
  of the biggest muscles in your body.
• 47:54
  I'm just doing with my shoulder and my tricep.
• 47:56
  That's why I go to the gym a lot, like maybe five days a week, and it's
• 47:59
  something that To do at this level professional level where I'm trying to
• 48:02
  be as close as I can to an IndyCar driver is something that I have to like work
• 48:07
  on like day in and day in and day out like just not something I do for just a
• 48:11
  track weekend thing it's something that like become my passion and I'm trying
• 48:15
  to push as far as I can and move as far as I can so if something requires me to
• 48:19
  get a little better on the brake it's something that I still maybe have to
• 48:22
  learn or further myself into more time.
• 48:25
  And I think to expand my question to clarify what I'm thinking is.
• 48:29
  Hopefully on the behalf of my listeners is, is it actually harder?
• 48:32
  Are you working more to break with your hands and your arms
• 48:36
  than you would be with your leg?
• 48:38
  Because when you drive a car to stop a car with your legs, it seems so
• 48:41
  simple, push the pedal car slows down, but I don't know how much force
• 48:46
  I'm actually exerting on the pedal.
• 48:48
  You guys are actually further back, right?
• 48:49
  There's all the physics involved in this forces and distance and whatnot.
• 48:53
  So I'm wondering, are you actually working harder to produce the same amount of.
• 48:56
  Physical work is on the hand control and how they're mounted.
• 49:00
  That's a hundred percent.
• 49:01
  Tim nailed it on the head.
• 49:02
  Cause for me, the way my Vigil's work, it's kind of on a hinge.
• 49:06
  I'm breaking on a dime without really trying.
• 49:09
  I'm actually not even using my full arm.
• 49:11
  All I do is I lift my wrist.
• 49:14
  And that fully breaks it versus pushing full forward with my shoulder, my tricep.
• 49:20
  And so I readjusted my drive style from road driving to track driving
• 49:25
  in order to finesse it more, which I have a video on YouTube for
• 49:28
  those people who want to see that.
• 49:29
  But I've changed my drive style because I wanted to get more detailed
• 49:34
  with my input and not have to exert energy because the biggest thing I
• 49:38
  was worried about was energy exertion.
• 49:41
  And Tim, I hear you loud and clear.
• 49:42
  When you go to the gym on the other side of this wall, you guys know what
• 49:46
  a tonal is, you know, that the workout machine that you put on the wall.
• 49:50
  We got a tonal and I'm in there every single day.
• 49:52
  And I'm, I'm, you know, hand cycling all the time because from a fatigue
• 49:56
  perspective, walking or not driving is you exert a lot of energy, you know,
• 50:00
  regardless of what appendages you use.
• 50:03
  I work out a ton as well, because Tim, to your point, weekend warriors is
• 50:07
  one thing I want to be more than that.
• 50:08
  So I'm going to work out to the level that I want to be.
• 50:12
  Exactly.
• 50:13
  Torsten, for the gas, do you have a vacuum assist?
• 50:15
  Nope.
• 50:16
  Have you ever heard of that?
• 50:17
  Yes, I have.
• 50:18
  No, mine, mine actually and Tim, we, we don't bypass the gas.
• 50:21
  So there are two rods that attach to the brake and to the gas pedal.
• 50:25
  And when I turn gas, And push forward for brake.
• 50:29
  And the reason for that was why I really like having it not bypass the pedal
• 50:35
  is one, I have a little more feedback.
• 50:38
  So the car is giving feedback into the gas pedal as well.
• 50:41
  So I'm feeling that in the gas when I'm turning.
• 50:44
  You don't get that when you do drive by wire, when it just goes wired in.
• 50:48
  So that's why I wanted that.
• 50:50
  And number two, if something goes belly up on the track, I actually want a track
• 50:54
  worker to be able to drive my car and not have to think about flipping a switch.
• 50:58
  So if they pull me out, what do they now do with the car?
• 51:01
  That is such an infinitesimal little example, right?
• 51:05
  Like, will that ever happen?
• 51:06
  Most likely never, ever, but it's the one time where I'm not
• 51:09
  thinking about it or it happens.
• 51:11
  That it will happen.
• 51:12
  We never plan for things we don't plan for.
• 51:14
  So that's why we left it there.
• 51:16
  Now, everybody can still drive my car.
• 51:18
  The foot pedals are active.
• 51:19
  Anyone can jump in and drive it and it wouldn't be an issue for them.
• 51:23
  They actually wouldn't know that it's attached.
• 51:25
  But again, this is what fascinates me about this conversation.
• 51:28
  In general about hand controls is that there are so many different types because
• 51:32
  of so many different disabilities, so many different people that have made it
• 51:36
  for different reasons for different cars, it makes it very difficult for a group
• 51:40
  like ours to get into this sport because we could have this conversation for the
• 51:45
  next eight hours, just the three of us talking about our hand controls going.
• 51:49
  What do you do?
• 51:50
  Well, let me tell you what I do.
• 51:51
  Well, how can I help you?
• 51:52
  Well, you should help me doing this.
• 51:54
  That becomes very difficult.
• 51:55
  It's fascinating to me.
• 51:56
  I kind of love it.
• 51:57
  I mean, my cars, both of my cars, they have two different types of hand controls.
• 52:01
  And both of my cars can be driven normally with the feet because
• 52:05
  my wife drives my cars too.
• 52:07
  Yep.
• 52:07
  You know, I wanted my hand controls to feel as natural as you would, if
• 52:14
  you were driving it with your feet.
• 52:15
  You know, I don't want any delay or anything like that.
• 52:18
  That's why I hesitated.
• 52:20
  I stuck it out as long as I could to drive with my legs.
• 52:24
  I wasn't sure, but then, you know, I ran into this great hand control
• 52:28
  developer and he said, look, I'll put you in a couple of my cars.
• 52:32
  You can test them.
• 52:32
  I have different hand controls in each one and you see which one you like,
• 52:36
  but you'll see the response time is no different than driving with your feet.
• 52:40
  He convinced me.
• 52:41
  So I think we need to go back for a moment before we transition into our
• 52:44
  last segment and talk about maybe some of your guys pet peeves about being on
• 52:49
  track, especially with hand controls.
• 52:50
  Like we briefly touched upon passing and how complicated that can be and
• 52:54
  turn signals and things like that.
• 52:56
  And, you know, there's a few of us in GTM that have had the privilege
• 52:59
  of coaching Matteo, myself included.
• 53:01
  To be honest, he's so smooth that you can't tell the difference.
• 53:05
  He's a hundred percent, right.
• 53:05
  He's been doing it forever.
• 53:07
  And if you didn't tell me and I just.
• 53:09
  You know, hopped in the right seat and be like, okay, let's go.
• 53:11
  Let's go.
• 53:11
  Obviously the challenge always occurs when you're coming up on another car,
• 53:15
  offline passing, or giving somebody else a pass, I found it to be a
• 53:19
  similar and rewarding experience.
• 53:21
  Like I had teaching a right hand drive car for the first time
• 53:25
  where I'm in the driver's position and going, what do I do now?
• 53:28
  Which was awkwardly confusing.
• 53:30
  It's like wearing your shoes on the wrong feet.
• 53:32
  You know, that kind of thing.
• 53:33
  I don't want it to come across that way when you're teaching, you
• 53:36
  know, somebody with hand controls.
• 53:38
  It is exactly the same.
• 53:39
  The car feels the same.
• 53:40
  It reacts the same.
• 53:41
  It's the drivers using different tools to get the car around the track.
• 53:44
  So that's just a little bit of advice I'm passing on to any
• 53:47
  coaches that are listening to this.
• 53:49
  But I do want to go back and talk about some of your guys pet peeves, some
• 53:52
  of the challenges you've had coming up through the different programs
• 53:56
  and some advice for folks that want to get into this for the first time.
• 54:00
  Eric, can I just thank you first for putting it the way you just did?
• 54:03
  And I say that sincerely, because treating us as normal is kind of the MO here.
• 54:09
  I've seen way too many novices out there that what will they do
• 54:13
  right before they do a point by?
• 54:14
  They'll jam on the brakes.
• 54:16
  Like, they'll actually jam on the brakes hard, then do a point by
• 54:19
  because they're like, well, I had to slow down in order to point them by
• 54:23
  because they needed to go around me.
• 54:25
  Well, they're not in a wheelchair yet.
• 54:27
  One of the worst things you can do, you're on the line and there are people behind
• 54:31
  you and let's just jam on the brakes.
• 54:33
  Well, I thought that's what I was supposed to do.
• 54:34
  And you just put it right.
• 54:36
  That it might just be different, but only thing I can add to that, what
• 54:39
  you said, which I think was spot on is never, ever be scared to ask.
• 54:45
  I think there's such a stigma.
• 54:48
  about asking questions.
• 54:50
  Without asking creates assumption.
• 54:52
  I think the three of us now have all talked about how easy it is to break.
• 54:56
  I'm pretty sure that's going to come to a surprise to most people that
• 54:59
  are listening to this, that we have such finesse when we're breaking how
• 55:03
  easy it is to use your hand controls.
• 55:06
  If you're in a wheelchair, that might come to a surprise to people
• 55:09
  because they're not used to it.
• 55:10
  It's because we're making assumptions about other people.
• 55:14
  When we don't actually know, I think it's okay to say, I
• 55:18
  have no idea how you do this.
• 55:21
  Can you tell me, and guess what?
• 55:22
  I love to talk about it and I think it's great.
• 55:24
  And I want to show other people, and I want to hear about their experiences too,
• 55:29
  because just cause they use their feet doesn't mean I can't learn from them.
• 55:32
  Right.
• 55:32
  So I'm asking them about heel toe, because it means that I can learn how to hit the
• 55:37
  throttle while I'm braking at the same time, which is also why I chose my hand
• 55:41
  controls so I can rev it differently and hop into a different gear with a DCT.
• 55:46
  So one of the biggest pet peeve is not asking questions,
• 55:49
  being too nervous to offend us.
• 55:52
  You're not going to offend me.
• 55:53
  We're not dainty little flowers.
• 55:55
  We're not snowflakes that are going to melt, you know, when
• 55:57
  we get a drop of water on us.
• 55:59
  We're there that are going to race our cars and we're going to try and beat you
• 56:02
  just like you're going to try and beat us.
• 56:04
  We're going to gloat when we get off the track and we're going to
• 56:06
  tell you how much better we are.
• 56:08
  It is the exact same.
• 56:09
  And so we're not there to be treated any different.
• 56:11
  And I think that's the biggest thing for me.
• 56:13
  When somebody wants to knock us down a peg and put a wheelchair symbol on the back
• 56:19
  of your car, I guarantee you that no track worker that is running toward a flaming
• 56:23
  car is going to look at the back of Tim's car and go, well, guys, hold on a sec.
• 56:28
  Because there's a wheelchair symbol on the back there.
• 56:31
  So let's open the door differently and let's ask him how he's
• 56:34
  feeling before we take them out.
• 56:36
  That's not, you just pull somebody out.
• 56:38
  There is a woman named Kathy at SCCA who, she's just really blunt with me.
• 56:42
  It's great.
• 56:43
  And she's like, no, here's what we're going to do.
• 56:45
  And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 56:47
  There's no difference.
• 56:48
  So I'd say my biggest pet peeve is not asking and making assumptions.
• 56:52
  And then the second thing is there's a statement that works
• 56:55
  for a lot of minorities and that's never for us without us.
• 56:59
  So there are a lot of people that are creating things or trying to
• 57:03
  make rules for people in chairs.
• 57:05
  Without people in chairs representing the conversation.
• 57:09
  And again, that is making assumptions for a group of people
• 57:12
  that they know nothing about.
• 57:14
  I haven't been in a chair my whole life.
• 57:15
  I don't expect anybody to know what it's like to be in a chair.
• 57:19
  I can't because I didn't know what it was like to be in a chair.
• 57:22
  As long as you have somebody sitting there and say, Tim, what do you think?
• 57:26
  And if Tim go, yeah, I agree.
• 57:28
  Or Mateo saying, no, I think that's a little wrong.
• 57:30
  That, to me, is kind of where it should go.
• 57:33
  I guess I understand what you're saying with the stick in the back of the car.
• 57:35
  Like, it wasn't something I asked for, and I just, like, kind of walked up to
• 57:38
  the car when they were putting them on, like, what are they going on there for?
• 57:41
  And they're like, oh, like, well, the Sirius wants it, and yadda yadda yadda,
• 57:44
  and I just, I was too busy, I guess, with other things and focusing on my
• 57:48
  driving in order to worry about it.
• 57:50
  It gives you five extra horsepower with the sticker of the slalom.
• 57:52
  A lot of competitors come up to me and like, they come up and they say, Oh wow,
• 57:56
  we, we think it's great what you're doing.
• 57:58
  You're still out there.
• 57:58
  You're still loving, still enjoying this passion.
• 58:00
  Like we're enjoying it.
• 58:01
  You're just doing it a different way.
• 58:02
  I don't think anybody looks at it negatively or they definitely don't like
• 58:05
  take it easy on me because it's on there.
• 58:07
  They still bump into you or push you off the track because it's
• 58:09
  professional racing, but it's.
• 58:11
  anything.
• 58:12
  I don't really know if I have any per se, maybe because all the people I've been
• 58:15
  in the racing world and going up in the D world that just have just been so like
• 58:20
  equal minded on what we're trying to do.
• 58:21
  This is the same thing we're going to go fast on the track.
• 58:24
  So it's, and everybody's kind of embraced me with open arms.
• 58:26
  So it's, it hasn't been really any negative towards me.
• 58:30
  It's always been my happy, positive place.
• 58:32
  You know, Eric, I feel like I've been, I've been a negative Nelly here.
• 58:35
  I do actually want to agree with Tim on this one.
• 58:38
  I would say if I'm looking at percentages, I'm talking right now
• 58:41
  about a small group of people that tend to be loud, you know, and HPD ease
• 58:46
  because they want to puff their chest.
• 58:49
  Thinking that they are the best drivers in the world and that they know better.
• 58:53
  When Tim, to your point, especially in the pro ranks and, and all the way
• 58:57
  up there in those ranks, there has been nothing but respect from people
• 59:00
  that are really good drivers that I know that have looked at me and been
• 59:04
  like, let's just figure this stuff out.
• 59:06
  And let's make it work.
• 59:07
  If you're gonna lose, you're gonna lose.
• 59:09
  If you're gonna win, you're gonna win.
• 59:10
  I'd say more people that I respect are like that.
• 59:14
  It's the people that I don't respect that are weakened warriors that
• 59:16
  think they're better than they are.
• 59:18
  They're the ones who are trying to put the stiff arm up in the weirdest ways.
• 59:21
  I guess that's just normally that kind of mentality though.
• 59:24
  It's just It's very fair.
• 59:27
  And I mean, I thought they were the best out there too.
• 59:28
  And so I met some of the pro drivers that came in, like
• 59:31
  maybe to coach for the weekend.
• 59:32
  And they were like six seconds, five seconds quicker than them.
• 59:34
  When I saw that, I was like, well, that that's what I want to do.
• 59:36
  That's what I want to be.
• 59:38
  I love that.
• 59:38
  I gotta say that, you know, and I think the way I've been treated in
• 59:42
  life, I don't feel like I've ever been treated any different than, than
• 59:45
  I was when I didn't break my neck.
• 59:48
  But I also think a lot of times it's on you.
• 59:50
  You got to make the people feel comfortable around you.
• 59:53
  It's also the way you act.
• 59:55
  makes people feel comfortable or uncomfortable around you, or maybe
• 1:00:00
  I've just been fortunate as far as the car clubs with Eric and all
• 1:00:04
  the guys that are around him have always treated me equally and they've
• 1:00:09
  never made me feel uncomfortable.
• 1:00:10
  I probably would have nailed somebody with my wheelchair if they put a wheelchair
• 1:00:14
  sign on my car, you know, with the foot pegs or something, you know, I don't even
• 1:00:21
  think they ever thought of doing that.
• 1:00:23
  Eric would probably say that would mess up the look of the car, you know,
• 1:00:26
  putting it just wouldn't look right.
• 1:00:29
  But that's actually a great point.
• 1:00:31
  I bring that up because one of the things I want coaches to be mindful of,
• 1:00:35
  regardless of if you're working with disabled people or other minorities
• 1:00:39
  or whatever, is never be patronizing.
• 1:00:41
  That's probably the bigger mistake you can make.
• 1:00:44
  Our jobs are to keep every driver safe.
• 1:00:47
  Hopefully they have fun.
• 1:00:48
  And at the end of the day, learn something.
• 1:00:50
  My guarantee has always been, I will make you faster and no ways
• 1:00:53
  ever asked for a refund before.
• 1:00:55
  And that's the truth.
• 1:00:56
  I get in the right seat with you.
• 1:00:57
  I'm working with you.
• 1:00:58
  It's my goal to adapt and overcome to whatever situation is presented with me.
• 1:01:03
  And as a coach, especially doing this for 10 years now as a DE coach and so on.
• 1:01:08
  You'll learn a lot and you'll learn it at a hundred miles an hour.
• 1:01:10
  Right?
• 1:01:11
  So for me, blue, purple Klingon in a wheelchair or not, it's all the same.
• 1:01:15
  We're in a car, we're learning something.
• 1:01:16
  We're having fun.
• 1:01:17
  But I think that also segues us into how the Just Hands Racing
• 1:01:21
  Foundation is changing the way we look at folks in your situation.
• 1:01:26
  So I want to turn it over to Torsten to talk about the program, what you
• 1:01:29
  guys are doing, how you're bringing out new drivers and things like that.
• 1:01:33
  Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 1:01:34
  So our mission.
• 1:01:35
  started and still is by the way, it's taken a little bit of a turn
• 1:01:39
  is giving anybody who uses hand controls as their daily driver the
• 1:01:44
  opportunity for performance driving.
• 1:01:46
  It's that simple.
• 1:01:47
  People can say to me, yes, but you can bring your daily driver onto an HPD track.
• 1:01:51
  Why can't somebody in a wheelchair do the same thing?
• 1:01:54
  Well, my response is if something Does happen on a track for the one time
• 1:01:58
  that it does, we can't go to a friend and say, Hey, can I borrow your car
• 1:02:02
  for a week while mine's being fixed?
• 1:02:04
  Right?
• 1:02:05
  No hand controls.
• 1:02:06
  It's harder to go to Hertz or Avis and get a rental car.
• 1:02:09
  So we tend to be a little bit more passive, I guess, or thoughtful about our
• 1:02:15
  everyday car in case something goes wrong.
• 1:02:17
  Cause again, we can't get a replacement that easily.
• 1:02:20
  So we decided to buy an E92.
• 1:02:23
  And we decked it out so it's fully stripped.
• 1:02:26
  It's got roll cage, diamond plated floors for the straps to be able to go in.
• 1:02:32
  Thanks to AMT, Mark over at AMT, we have fire suppression that
• 1:02:36
  he got us, which is amazing.
• 1:02:38
  HMS has given us almost all the safety stuff from seatbelts to helmet.
• 1:02:43
  And track comms, like they've been nothing but amazing to work with.
• 1:02:47
  I donated the seats to put in there.
• 1:02:48
  We have removable steering wheel.
• 1:02:50
  The removable steering wheel is one easier to get in and out for people who
• 1:02:54
  don't know how to get in and out of a race car, but also we have a deep dish
• 1:02:58
  and a spacer, it brings it closer to the driver, the steering wheel, because the
• 1:03:02
  closer you are to the steering wheel, the more you're using your shoulders.
• 1:03:06
  Versus using your arms if it's straight out a bent arm always
• 1:03:10
  better than a straight arm.
• 1:03:11
  So the closer that the wheel is with a dish, the better you are as a driver.
• 1:03:15
  And also, if you think about it, you guys as able bodied drivers, if you
• 1:03:18
  have two hands on the wheel, you're pulling into the turn, which means
• 1:03:22
  that you're going in your back.
• 1:03:24
  For us, we're pushing into the turn.
• 1:03:26
  We're pushing up into the wheel.
• 1:03:27
  So we're using more shoulders and tries for a lot of the turn by making a deep
• 1:03:31
  dish steering will bring it closer to you.
• 1:03:33
  It removes a lot of fatigue.
• 1:03:34
  For that.
• 1:03:35
  So I very, very little fatigue at the end of a very long session, like an hour
• 1:03:39
  long session, the last thing for the car, we have dual hand controls, so we
• 1:03:43
  have left and right side hand controls.
• 1:03:46
  So depending on what you are familiar with in your everyday driver,
• 1:03:49
  what you use, that is the hand controls that we will make active.
• 1:03:54
  Now, if you choose to use the other hand control, so if you're left throttle,
• 1:03:58
  but you want to try right first, we're going to start you on autocross.
• 1:04:01
  I'm not putting you on a main track to learn how to do
• 1:04:04
  something that's dangerous.
• 1:04:06
  That's like learning how to do stick shift for the first time ever, and then getting
• 1:04:10
  onto a track going 100 miles an hour.
• 1:04:11
  It's inappropriate.
• 1:04:12
  So we get anybody out onto a track, and there are three
• 1:04:16
  different offerings that we have.
• 1:04:17
  One is HPDE, what we've talked about.
• 1:04:20
  So we join sanctioning bodies like Audi, any Q as CCA BMW car club,
• 1:04:27
  whomever, usually here at Lime Rock.
• 1:04:28
  Cause this is where we started.
• 1:04:30
  Although we're going to do East coast stuff very soon.
• 1:04:33
  And we get a novice slot.
• 1:04:35
  They are treated just like anybody else.
• 1:04:37
  They just happen to be in a car with a really cool livery on it.
• 1:04:40
  They're treated just like anybody else would an instructor in novice group.
• 1:04:44
  That's number one.
• 1:04:45
  Number two is autocross.
• 1:04:46
  So those are people that might not be ready to go on to a track or somebody
• 1:04:50
  that wants to learn how to balance the car or somebody who just think autocross
• 1:04:54
  is more fun for them than HPDE is.
• 1:04:56
  Whatever their flavor, they then do autocross.
• 1:04:58
  And then the third one is ride alongs.
• 1:05:02
  As a quad, I can tell you that there have been some sports where
• 1:05:05
  I just can't participate in.
• 1:05:07
  I didn't want anyone ever to feel left out.
• 1:05:09
  So I thought, well, why don't we throw somebody in the right
• 1:05:12
  seat that get them to experience it, even if they can't do it.
• 1:05:15
  Because even sitting on the side seat gives you the thrill, not
• 1:05:18
  just if you're driving, but also if you're driving with somebody
• 1:05:21
  who will scare the crap out of you.
• 1:05:22
  And so those are the three offerings that we have, which is really cool.
• 1:05:27
  And that is just hands.
• 1:05:29
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:05:30
  I never really had that, or I never knew there was organizations like that,
• 1:05:33
  really, when I started to get into racing.
• 1:05:34
  They don't exist, which is the problem, Tim, and that's why we started this.
• 1:05:38
  Glad you said that, that you didn't know it's out there.
• 1:05:40
  It is for that reason that we started this, because it is so
• 1:05:43
  difficult to get in the sport.
• 1:05:45
  This is coming out of the mouth of somebody who, you know, races in SRO
• 1:05:49
  and has reached such high levels.
• 1:05:52
  You've had to go through more stuff to get into it, had more gumption to get into it.
• 1:05:56
  You have the resolve to do that.
• 1:05:58
  It's very difficult for, you know, just everybody to go do that.
• 1:06:02
  So I give you credit for getting to where you are.
• 1:06:04
  Oh, thank you.
• 1:06:05
  Thank you.
• 1:06:05
  But it's something that I don't want to take credit for because
• 1:06:08
  it's something that so many people have helped me out along the way.
• 1:06:10
  I've had great people, like, initially from my PCA, like, Reasons Outer
• 1:06:14
  Region, which is near Pennsylvania.
• 1:06:16
  I've had, like I said, the Leighton Pace help me get into racing, and
• 1:06:19
  then my karting coach, like, Willie Pete's, like, like, I, I wouldn't
• 1:06:23
  be where I am today without him.
• 1:06:25
  Because when I first got into a race car, it's not like a street car.
• 1:06:27
  It doesn't talk to you, the tires don't talk to you, the traction
• 1:06:30
  control, like, it says it's on, but it's not really on like a street car.
• 1:06:33
  The brakes are different.
• 1:06:34
  Everything feels different.
• 1:06:35
  And then like a card is the most close thing you can get like to getting all
• 1:06:38
  that feeling and really like improving your driving to the next level.
• 1:06:41
  If you really want to be serious with racing and go to professional levels
• 1:06:45
  and, and like carding is like a great place to start and there's options.
• 1:06:49
  Even for paraplegic people within carding as well.
• 1:06:52
  And just to get into the sport and if you just want a taste of it and just
• 1:06:56
  enjoy it, like a lot of people want to do, it's good with what you're
• 1:07:00
  doing, I think, to really show people that that option's out there for them.
• 1:07:05
  If I may just tell a quick story, something that now has happened twice.
• 1:07:09
  I think it was you Matteo said you had a grin from ear to ear when you came off the
• 1:07:14
  track and I think that's what everybody has and then I had a woman who came up
• 1:07:19
  to me and there's actually now happened a couple times one very explicitly and
• 1:07:24
  one implicitly and she's crying and she said you have to know two things.
• 1:07:29
  One, he has not been mobile for too long, and now he's on a racetrack.
• 1:07:34
  That means a lot to us, so thank you.
• 1:07:36
  But two, they had their 12 year old son there.
• 1:07:39
  And fathers to sons are heroes.
• 1:07:43
  They're unbreakable, they're unflappable, they're unmovable.
• 1:07:46
  When he landed in a wheelchair, this 12 year old lost the
• 1:07:49
  hero status for his father.
• 1:07:52
  They came to the track, it was the three of them.
• 1:07:54
  He gets off the track.
• 1:07:56
  The son kept saying, I want to be like daddy.
• 1:07:58
  I want to be a race car driver.
• 1:08:00
  The wife had said, you brought back hero to my husband,
• 1:08:04
  something that my son had lost.
• 1:08:06
  It was that moment.
• 1:08:07
  I, first off, I was like, you got to walk away.
• 1:08:08
  I'm going to start crying.
• 1:08:10
  But it was that moment that I realized seeing and experiencing
• 1:08:14
  this is just as impactful for the person that is in the wheelchair.
• 1:08:19
  As it is for those who are in the family and around the person in the wheelchair.
• 1:08:24
  And to have the son bring back a feeling that he hadn't had before, because he
• 1:08:30
  saw him on track, meant so much to me.
• 1:08:32
  We knew that after the second person who had told me that, two different
• 1:08:35
  experiences, we realized, We're doing something that's better than
• 1:08:39
  just getting somebody into a novice HPDE and experiencing a track.
• 1:08:43
  Although that is pretty awesome.
• 1:08:45
  I think we can all say that as well, but it's bigger than that.
• 1:08:48
  And it meant a lot to me.
• 1:08:49
  And so we realized we were on the right path.
• 1:08:51
  That's awesome.
• 1:08:52
  Great story.
• 1:08:53
  I just wanted to know, do you need to have like track
• 1:08:55
  insurance for doing what you do?
• 1:08:57
  So this is probably a bigger conversation than this podcast, right?
• 1:09:00
  It's a whole new podcast to talk about should you have it.
• 1:09:03
  So we as a foundation have it.
• 1:09:05
  We have it both from a liability.
• 1:09:07
  We, we use Hagerty insurance for our track.
• 1:09:10
  Then the track has insurance and the sanctioning body has insurance.
• 1:09:13
  Then sign a waiver.
• 1:09:14
  So there is just like any sanctioning body that Audi would have to go through,
• 1:09:19
  you know, for liability and protection.
• 1:09:21
  We do the exact same thing.
• 1:09:22
  Yeah.
• 1:09:23
  Not because people are in chairs, but because it's the right thing to do.
• 1:09:26
  It protects them too.
• 1:09:27
  If something goes wrong with them, we have the ability to help them as
• 1:09:30
  well, which also the right thing to do.
• 1:09:33
  While I can talk about loss of property and say, that's sad.
• 1:09:37
  I really don't care about the car.
• 1:09:39
  I care about the people inside the car, which is also why we went way
• 1:09:43
  overboard with safety equipment.
• 1:09:45
  We had said, let's build a safe car and then make it go fast.
• 1:09:48
  Let's not build a fast car and then add some safety to it, right?
• 1:09:51
  We started with the safety stuff.
• 1:09:53
  So the answer is yes, we, we definitely have insurance and I have it for my
• 1:09:56
  personal cars as well, track insurance.
• 1:09:58
  So if Matteo wanted to come up and drive the just hands
• 1:10:02
  BMW, how does he set that up?
• 1:10:04
  How does he make the arrangements?
• 1:10:05
  What does it cost?
• 1:10:06
  So I'm going to change that to if he wants to and it's going to be when he comes
• 1:10:10
  up and does the just hands experience.
• 1:10:13
  This podcast is going to remove any options.
• 1:10:15
  So anybody listening, if you ask Matteo, has he done just hands?
• 1:10:18
  And he said, no, let's give him some, uh, some flack for that.
• 1:10:21
  We work with the sanctioning bodies and we, I've looked at now the calendar,
• 1:10:25
  thanks to HPD junkie and, uh, looked at the calendar and said, what's near us.
• 1:10:31
  Thompson, Lime Rock, Palmer.
• 1:10:33
  At some point, we're going to be going a little more north, maybe down to Jersey 2.
• 1:10:37
  Where can I get a novice slot?
• 1:10:38
  And so the way it works is, anybody who uses hand controls and has full triceps
• 1:10:44
  can drive the car, meaning they have to be able to transfer into the car.
• 1:10:48
  by themselves without a sliding board.
• 1:10:50
  So no aid.
• 1:10:51
  And that is because when you're going through a turn, we all know you've
• 1:10:54
  got to be strong and you've got to be able to push through a turn.
• 1:10:57
  There are quadriplegics who don't have triceps.
• 1:10:59
  That to me is proof that they don't have enough triceps to go through a turn.
• 1:11:03
  And that stinks for me to say that they can't do it.
• 1:11:06
  But it's a safety conversation.
• 1:11:07
  It is not a pity conversation.
• 1:11:09
  The first thing we do is we have a conversation.
• 1:11:12
  I say, Mateo, tell me a little bit about your disability.
• 1:11:14
  You know, what can you use?
• 1:11:16
  What kind of hand controls do you drive?
• 1:11:18
  What's your experience?
• 1:11:19
  Once we get that down, what do you want to do?
• 1:11:21
  Do you want to do HPDE or do you want to do autocross or do
• 1:11:24
  you want to do a ride along?
• 1:11:25
  Once I figure that out, I then go and get a slot at what are the sanctioning bodies?
• 1:11:31
  And a lot of them we already have.
• 1:11:32
  I then say, alright, on September X, come on up.
• 1:11:36
  It is 100% free.
• 1:11:38
  So you show up and we give you your Hans.
• 1:11:41
  device after Hans.
• 1:11:43
  I don't care if it is mandated or not by the HPD.
• 1:11:45
  You have to wear a Hans.
• 1:11:47
  It's just the right thing to do.
• 1:11:48
  We have a couple of helmets that you try on.
• 1:11:50
  You then drive the car around the paddock for a little bit, just because
• 1:11:54
  every car is always a little different, kind of like you would do within
• 1:11:56
  the ride and drive car, see how the clutch works, you know, and all that
• 1:12:00
  kind of stuff just for a little bit.
• 1:12:01
  And then you join the group, meaning you're just like any other driver, you
• 1:12:07
  get your instructor, they come into the car with you and you are now ready to go.
• 1:12:12
  So that is how he's going to do it with just hands.
• 1:12:17
  I heard it's going to be at the October Emra event at Lime Rock there, Mateo.
• 1:12:21
  Oh, that's look, Corey, if you're listening, we won a slot
• 1:12:25
  and that's my birthday weekend.
• 1:12:26
  I think it's October 16th.
• 1:12:27
  That being said, what does the next one to five years look like
• 1:12:32
  for the just hands foundation?
• 1:12:33
  I hear from a little birdie, some rumors that you guys might be going to spa.
• 1:12:38
  So yeah, RSR, the big track to arrive and drive company that
• 1:12:42
  does Nuremberg ring and spa.
• 1:12:44
  And I contacted them and I showed them how easy it is to put hand controls in.
• 1:12:48
  And I connected them with the people that make my hand controls
• 1:12:51
  and how cheap it is to put that in.
• 1:12:53
  And, you know, mathematically it takes two and a half rentals.
• 1:12:57
  For them to make their money back and you can actually remove the hand control.
• 1:13:00
  So able bodied people would never actually know that they're in there.
• 1:13:03
  So two and a half.
• 1:13:03
  So financially speaking, it works out perfectly for them.
• 1:13:06
  As long as they have two and a half people, which they will.
• 1:13:08
  August 10th and 11th, I will be doing spa and Nuremberg ring.
• 1:13:13
  Which I am excited and terrified at the same time.
• 1:13:16
  I heard Tim wants to go with you.
• 1:13:18
  Yeah, that'd be pretty cool.
• 1:13:20
  They have a, a BMW M240 IR and they have a Golf R both, you know, massively
• 1:13:28
  track modified to be race cars to answer your second question, what's
• 1:13:32
  the next one to five years, we're most likely going to be working with a big
• 1:13:35
  racing school in this country to put in hand controls around the country.
• 1:13:40
  We then also want to act as, I'm going to use the word consultants,
• 1:13:44
  and that is like we did for RSR.
• 1:13:47
  Here's how easy it is to put them in.
• 1:13:49
  It takes five minutes to put them in or take them out.
• 1:13:52
  Here are the three things you need, and here's how easy it's going to be.
• 1:13:56
  And show different arrive and drive companies around this
• 1:14:00
  country and maybe around the world.
• 1:14:02
  I don't want to get too big for our britches, but if we can create a just
• 1:14:06
  hands brand, that means that as we've proven here, there's a lot of nerves
• 1:14:11
  about what type of hand controls are in a car and can I use them?
• 1:14:14
  And are they right?
• 1:14:16
  If you have a just hands kind of brand on it, you know what you're getting
• 1:14:20
  when you go to different track.
• 1:14:22
  When you have a just hands program, you're getting either a right
• 1:14:25
  or left hand control or both.
• 1:14:26
  It gives people in chairs ease of saying, Oh, I'm not going to show up and
• 1:14:31
  it's going to be something different.
• 1:14:32
  I've heard some war stories and I'm not going to say names or places where they've
• 1:14:35
  had really bad hand controls and people have left the school or the arrived drive
• 1:14:40
  because they didn't feel comfortable.
• 1:14:41
  And I think still having more cars that we can use in different places.
• 1:14:45
  So that's kind of one to five.
• 1:14:47
  So the big question for all of us able bodied folks is how can we help?
• 1:14:51
  Are there ways that we can contribute and share in the Just Hands experience?
• 1:14:56
  What is it you need from us?
• 1:14:58
  How can we be of service?
• 1:14:59
  Oh, I love that question because it's so broad and big and,
• 1:15:03
  and we definitely need it.
• 1:15:04
  The first one's money donations always help.
• 1:15:07
  And that's whether it's 20 or a thousand dollars or anything in between.
• 1:15:11
  It really doesn't matter.
• 1:15:12
  A hundred bucks gives us gas for the weekend and whatnot.
• 1:15:15
  And so it's a free, but that's always number one, but I don't count on that.
• 1:15:19
  The other things they're smaller, but they're just as important.
• 1:15:22
  Are people going from the Northeast somewhere?
• 1:15:25
  So do they have an extra spot on their trailer where they can help
• 1:15:28
  trailer our car if we went to Watkins or if we went to New Jersey or VIR?
• 1:15:34
  Let us know if you have a spot.
• 1:15:36
  The second thing is, if you are part of a sanctioning body like an Audi or
• 1:15:40
  a BMW club or a PCA, give us a call and say we'll give you a novice slot.
• 1:15:46
  Whether it's for autocross or for HPDE and come join in on the
• 1:15:49
  fun and just donate one of those.
• 1:15:52
  Those I think are the three biggest ones, money, trailing
• 1:15:54
  the car and giving us spots.
• 1:15:56
  We have so many reservations.
• 1:15:59
  We have not done any publicity.
• 1:16:01
  We already have 70 signups within a month and a half.
• 1:16:06
  I don't know how I'm going to fill those.
• 1:16:08
  So anybody who says that there's no demand, I'm more than happy to ask them
• 1:16:12
  to help and get me another car to do this.
• 1:16:14
  Okay.
• 1:16:14
  So that brings up a really good point.
• 1:16:16
  Maybe there's some folks out there that would be willing to, let's say, use
• 1:16:21
  their spec Miata or some other car and have hand controls adapted to it to
• 1:16:25
  make it part of the just hands fleet.
• 1:16:27
  Is that something you've considered?
• 1:16:28
  Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge for folks out there that
• 1:16:32
  are thinking this right now?
• 1:16:33
  I didn't even go that far because I think that's such a huge thing to
• 1:16:36
  ask, but you are 100 percent right because you can remove the hand
• 1:16:38
  controls and no one would know.
• 1:16:40
  That would be, wow, such a wonderful idea.
• 1:16:43
  So folks, if you're interested in doing that, maybe you got an older race car
• 1:16:46
  or one that you put not as many laps on these days, something to consider,
• 1:16:50
  you know, reach out to Torsten on how to do that, how easy it is to be
• 1:16:54
  able to make these cars available at different tracks around the country,
• 1:16:57
  you know, not just in the Northeast.
• 1:16:58
  I would also ask.
• 1:17:00
  Torsten, for us coaches, would it be useful for us to drive a hand
• 1:17:04
  control car with the hand controls to get a better understanding of
• 1:17:08
  what you guys are up against when you're out there doing your laps?
• 1:17:11
  Oh, yes.
• 1:17:12
  I love that question.
• 1:17:14
  I did that for a group of people and they were so thankful to do it.
• 1:17:18
  And actually, funny enough, they came back saying how easy it was.
• 1:17:22
  They were shocked at how simple it was.
• 1:17:23
  But yes, I would be more than happy to sit side seat and tell them, stop moving
• 1:17:29
  your legs and we'll tape down their legs so that they can't use pedals.
• 1:17:33
  But that would be great.
• 1:17:34
  Even if they didn't want to teach people in chairs, just to
• 1:17:37
  understand what it's like to be in somebody else's shoes, right?
• 1:17:40
  And that's not just disabled.
• 1:17:41
  That's anything understanding what somebody else goes through
• 1:17:45
  in life is so important.
• 1:17:46
  So I think that'd be great.
• 1:17:48
  So gentlemen, as we close out here, any shout outs, promotions, or any other
• 1:17:52
  items or things that you'd like to share that we didn't cover thus far?
• 1:17:56
  Well, I don't have any sponsors yet.
• 1:17:57
  So I need to ask for, give me a good car this year.
• 1:17:59
  We're still trying.
• 1:18:01
  We have a lot of work to do still to get a little more competitive.
• 1:18:04
  I guess it's just my carding coach.
• 1:18:05
  I can't thank him enough.
• 1:18:06
  Like William Pete's my teammate this year, like Rafa Matos.
• 1:18:09
  He's helped me a lot get quicker in the car.
• 1:18:12
  Well, I'd like to give a shout out first to Eric to get me back into
• 1:18:16
  it, but secondly, to drivingaids.
• 1:18:19
  com, which is the owner of that company, it's the hand control company that
• 1:18:24
  put the hand controls in both of my cars, but more importantly, put the
• 1:18:28
  one in the TT that I'm able to race in.
• 1:18:31
  Lee Perry's the owner and he did a great job and he he really customized
• 1:18:36
  it to the way I wanted it and position wise and everything so that
• 1:18:40
  I could do what I love doing for me.
• 1:18:42
  I'll rattle through the mobility innovations and Feigl
• 1:18:45
  for doing the hand controls.
• 1:18:46
  I think Lime Rock Park has been nothing but I mean, first off, Beautiful track.
• 1:18:50
  Amazing track, but they've been so supportive of us by helping
• 1:18:54
  us at every single turn FCP euro HMS, which I mentioned Sharon
• 1:18:58
  auto sport, Hancock tires.
• 1:19:00
  Audi any Q is the first one that allowed us on the track.
• 1:19:03
  We did our event with them and Eric and Alex and that group have been nothing but.
• 1:19:07
  stellar and amazing and I can't be more appreciative of them.
• 1:19:10
  We're just so grateful in general and so thank you if I missed anybody.
• 1:19:15
  Thank you guys for being part of this journey with us.
• 1:19:18
  It's humbling and exciting at the same time.
• 1:19:20
  It's very important for all of us to remember that motorsports is one of the
• 1:19:26
  only sports that makes everyone equal, no matter what appendages you use to drive.
• 1:19:31
  So if you or someone in your life is disabled driving with hand controls
• 1:19:35
  and would love nothing more than to get on track, please be sure to
• 1:19:39
  reach out to Torsten and the Just Hands Racing Foundation at www.
• 1:19:44
  justhandsfoundation.
• 1:19:45
  org or follow them on Instagram at justhandsracing.
• 1:19:49
  You can follow Tim's progress as part of Fast Track Racing
• 1:19:52
  via the SRO Motorsports website.
• 1:19:54
  site, www.
• 1:19:55
  gtamerica.
• 1:19:56
  us.
• 1:19:57
  And for those of you that are GTMers out there listening, you can always hang
• 1:20:01
  out with Mateo at any of the upcoming events that we're going to be at.
• 1:20:03
  And maybe we'll see him at a just hands racing event in the near future.
• 1:20:08
  We want to thank everybody, Mateo, Tim and Torsten for coming on the show and sharing
• 1:20:13
  their unique experiences behind the wheel.
• 1:20:15
  So I cannot thank you guys enough for coming on break fix.
• 1:20:18
  And thank you, Eric, for giving us the opportunity to talk about
• 1:20:21
  something that is pretty important and it's people like you that allow
• 1:20:24
  us to kind of change the ratio.
• 1:20:27
  And so we really appreciate that.
• 1:20:28
  Yeah, thanks for thinking of me and coming up to me at the track
• 1:20:31
  and making me a part of this.
• 1:20:32
  Thank you.
• 1:20:33
  Thank you, Eric.
• 1:20:34
  My pleasure, guys.
• 1:20:40
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 1:20:42
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 1:20:45
  gtmotorsports.
• 1:20:46
  org.
• 1:20:47
  You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.
• 1:20:50
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, You can call
• 1:20:55
  or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 1:21:02
  org.
• 1:21:03
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:21:05
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:21:07
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 1:21:10
  to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
• 1:21:15
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• 1:21:18
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• 1:21:21
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• 1:21:53
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