Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 73: Cecil Jee Thomas - From Football Pro to Content Creator

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73: Cecil Jee Thomas - From Football Pro to Content Creator · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I was never really gonna win this battle.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's father's photos are in the training grounds, they're on the wall, so but I didn't know this at the time.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was Tyler and I'm a player.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Mixed race looked like me a striker playing for the same position and, if my opinion, I thought I showed a bit more, but I'm gonna be a little bit biased.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they went with him and after that I just said you know what the politics of this sport is too much for me.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: It's time for me to hang up my boots.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: But I say hang up my boots.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I went in on League for a bit but I made a decision at 19 years old to retire from the game and say I'm not doing this, I'm not chasing the dream, I'm not gonna continue fighting to be a footballer because I was gonna end up being 27, the age I am right now still trying to make a career out of football.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: There's more to life than that and it was a very mature decision.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: If my personally, I'm not gonna blow and blow my trumpet again, but at 19 years old to then say I'm not doing this, instead of all the rest of my players that were at Crawley were still trying to be footballers.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I said now let's do something different.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: And that's where things kind of this is where they pick up, the second wind comes in.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: This is where the talent transfer happens.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: This is where everything the story changes completely.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ryan God-Salvez, and welcome to a second wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Each week, I invite guests to the show.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Cecil, thanks for joining me today, man.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: No problem.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: No problem, it's a pleasure.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Second wind it's an honor to be here for many times now and it says a lot about my life just in the title, so it's gonna be interesting getting into this and having a good little catch up in a chat.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Well, as I said, I'm really happy that you joined me today.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I think your story's one that can resonate with many people, and what I've really looked for in this show is just to get that story, just to have a conversation about how some of these moments came about.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, nice.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to start?
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: It's a long story.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I know that I'm still young, you know there's not many wrinkles here, but it is a long story so I don't know.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to kick it off at?
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Let's start with football.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Let's start back with you, probably school, 10 years old, sport wise.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: What was going on for you at that time?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Amazing.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So this is really the beginning of the story Was young boy obviously every young boy's dream, or most young boys dream, is to be a professional footballer.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: It was definitely mine and I set my mind to that.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: But I think I suppose when I was really young around 10, 11, I was kind of just a very active kid, just playing all sports, loved everything, if I'm honest, just wanting to be outside.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Just today's generation, you know it's all iPads and games and Fortnite and all that but me.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I was one of those outside kids that like to run around, climb trees, play games, play a lot of football, and which is actually a good thing, because nowadays in academies they're taking kids at very young ages, in primary school, and I think they're kind of killing a lot of kids' ambitions to do other sports.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: But for me I was very active.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I wanted to be a professional footballer but I didn't really see a way in at all because I was a boy from Surrey.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I moved out of South London quite young and then moved into the Red Hill area in Surrey and I didn't really see an in.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It's a professional football from there because not many people make it from Surrey.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's more inner-city London boys or South London boys.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So it was difficult for me but luckily I had a brother that was involved in professional football, played for Charlton, a step-brother called Kevin George.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: He played, never made it to the Premier League, but he played in the Under-21s and whatnot, signed professionally and floated around Charlton and West Ham.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So I kind of looked up to that and wanted to be that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It kind of all started getting serious around the age of 15.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Now this is kind of a message to young, inspiring footballers or parents that have kids that want to be footballers as well, because the fact that for me I got told it was quite late to get into professional football.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I started at 15 years old For me I actually think it's kind of the right time.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I think you let kids have their childhood and start looking at the professional game in their late teens or like 14, 15, because that's when it starts to get serious.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: You start going for your scholarships and back in the day obviously YTSs, but you start going for an actual contract instead of being in the academy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: So at 15 years old I got an opportunity to trial up Crystal Palace, which was a club it was close to me.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I've always been an Arsenal fan my whole life.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I modeled my game around Tia and Rhee and he's one that maybe want to be a professional footballer and emulate his career and he actually think he'd done that for many kids and many young boys or girls and I think he was a role model for a lot of players, but definitely me.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't have this mess of a head of hair on top of my head.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I was quite low, shaven, 0.5, no facial hair, so I thought I was a young Tia and Rhee, so that's what kind of got me to support an Arsenal.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: But I went to Crystal Palace and, like I said, that was kind of local to where I was at in Sarasas, south London side.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So I went there and I didn't really actually realize I was at Crystal Palace at the time.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Ryan, if I'm completely honest, I thought it was just I don't know, I thought it was, you know, like the camps, like a summer camp, that's what I kind of thought it was.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: But it turned out to be very professional.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I was training at the Crystal Palace National Sports Center and then we had to go to training ground for games.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I remember going up to Leeds actually funny enough that we mentioned these off camera.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I had to play against them and I was on the club coach and I was like, oh my God, this is serious.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And then I was involved in it and then a few weeks later I got released and that was my first like serious heartbreak.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: That was for me.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know where I broke down.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I cried a lot, my mom tried to consult me a lot, but I realized it was something that was a big opportunity and I realized it a bit late and then I got released and it really hurt me but that spurred me on to then go for glory and actually want to be a professional footballer.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: And the story continues from there and this is where it kind of gets into when I sign and all of that.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I can carry on, go through that or we can.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, I'm interested in that little drop getting released, realizing that the dream isn't quite that easy.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: So what did you then do?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: What changed?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Because you're 15, you still have.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: It was tough because obviously your school that you go to.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: They know you're at Crystal Palace your mindset changes.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And obviously I'm 15.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So I want everyone to keep that in mind.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So when you're in school and you're at Crystal Palace, your mind's thinking I'm going to be a footballer.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: So don't get me wrong, I have a Jamaican mom, so I had to focus on school.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: However, there was that thing in the forefront of my mind like it'll be all right, I'm going to be a footballer, so let me just take it easy.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe in a science class, and do you know what I mean?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So I had that.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I felt like I had a bit of security.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: But of course you don't have security.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: This is the.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Being a footballer is the most difficult industry to make it and succeed and have a career in.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: So but at that age you don't realize that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You think you're going training regularly after school and then you're traveling with the team and all that.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So you kind of think this is going to be forever.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: When I got released, like I said it was, it was heartbreaking and it hurt me a lot, but, like I said, if we go on to the next stage, it spurred me on to really become a professional footballer.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So I went back to school, obviously, and I was in my studies and an opportunity came about where Crawley Town were looking for players.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I was in year 11 at this point, so I was 16 years old, and this stage and it's crucial to my story was a key moment in my life because it was during GCC's.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Crawley Town wanted me on day release and if you aren't aware what day release is, it means when the football club contacted the school and asked for said player to come and train with the youth team or the other team during school hours.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So luckily, because of my hard work and I'm going to pat myself on back here I did very well in school.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I got moved up into set one for a lot of subjects in year nine.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So there was a lot of trust there in me to work hard and get good grades and because of that the school allowed me to do day release.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: So I went to Crawley Town during school hours and instead of training with the under 16s, which was my year group, I was a little bit more advanced.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I'm quite a tall, athletic, strong player.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: They realized that I was past my under 16 stage.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Even I was at 16 years old so they put me into the youth team.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So I was training with the youth team for a lot of my year 11 time and then there was one day, which is in a documentary on YouTube about my time I played against the first team at 16 years old with the youth team.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: So I was already playing up and we had the opportunity where it's a big day for the youth team, they get to play against the first team, played against the first team.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I shined a little bit.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was up against Claude Davis, who was a Jamaican international big, solid defender.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I just spun him a treat in front of the first team manager.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And that day, I believe, is when I sealed my scholarship, my contract for Crawley Town.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: But it was actually further on from that.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I played many matches for the youth team.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: First team manager come and watch me and he really liked me.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I got offered a contract off the back of really that trainer session.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: But it was a long period.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: It was during my GCSEs.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I got really good grades.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I also was at a stage where I was auditioning for some performing arts schools, like the British School in South London and some other performing arts schools, but that wasn't really my passion.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: My dream was to be a footballer and I achieved that when I was 16, got my first contract and yeah and the story does very much you know crescendo when I signed that contract, because I became a professional footballer and I hated every day of it.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So which we'll get into in a second, I'm sure that's right.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, before we jump into that, I'm curious about the performing arts piece.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: So, whilst going through football and doing sport, were you thinking beyond?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Well, if I'm not a footballer, this is where I'm going to head.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Listen, a lot of people that know me or have heard my story know that the dance thing was very last minute, a big change, a big transition, a risk, shall we say.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: But no one really knows yet the backstory, which was kind of this little section here where I took dance, you just see, I took drama, you just see and I got four marks, got ace, I think, a or ace I'm a star in drama and I got a in dance.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: So there was a little bit of, yes, I enjoyed dance, but again, I was in an era where it wasn't cool to dance.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It wasn't my dream at all, it was just I was very athletic and I like to do a lot of flips and stuff.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: But the school recognized that I was good at it and they kind of said, look, they advised me to go audition for some schools.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: And Brit school was something that made sense because it was government funded.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: My family unfortunately just me and my mom we couldn't afford the big performing arts schools where you pay.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: You pay fees every term.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So I had the opportunity to go to the Brit school and audition.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I got in, which was a massive achievement, and my mom said this is the place for you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: So everyone, listen and listen to your parents, because my mom was right.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I just went against her wishes because I want to be a footballer and I want to earn money.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: But she was right.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: The thing I had when I was walking around Brit school the love I got from the students and the teachers it felt like the right place to be.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: But I'm a young boy wanting to be a footballer and at the time it wasn't cool to dance and it wasn't at the forefront of my mind, it was just something I thought I excelled at, but I wasn't really bothered about it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And I auditioned for another school which I ended up going to was Italian Conti, but I only received, I think, a 25 or 50% scholarship.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't good at it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I wasn't good at that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So I know I got good grades, but it wasn't really my thing.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I got good grades in maths and English as well.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I just believed that football was my passion.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So, to give you an understanding, Ryan, it was something that I enjoyed as a pastime, but it wasn't something I took seriously because I was so focused on football at the time.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: It's interesting I know through the story we will come back to it the dance and the sort of the role that played in your life today.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So let's go into this football thing.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: You've achieved the dream.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: You've worked hard, you got knocked back, you got back on, you pushed Awesome trial in, talked to me about being a pro man, working out, going out every day.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: The thing is yeah because the story goes left and, like I said, it's a second ago, like I didn't enjoy being a footballer.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: But at the first, the first stages of it, when I first signed that contract and I was promised a lot, my manager promised me.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I was a young boy that was deemed to be the next big Crawley Town star and, to give you context, it's not me just blowing my own trumpet I was playing for the first like three months.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I was with the first team training, even though I was 16, I was playing a lot of the reserve games and it's just all on record as well, scoring goals for the reserve team.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: It was me and a boy called Alex Lang who was actually watched by man United at the time.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: So we were deemed the next big thing to come out of Crawley Town.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And this was the dream.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: The Twitter's going off, people are speaking about me in my area.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: You're playing football for a living, you're getting paid weekly for training, you're getting boots and stuff like this was the dream.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: This is what I thought the dream.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I thought this was going to be the dream forever.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: But what many people don't know is the kind of the dark and the inside to what it actually really is to be a footballer and the things that you know.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: It does get speaking about, spoken about, but not enough, which I'll go into.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, at first, when you're seeing all your friends going to college and stuff and you're just going to training, honestly it's what dreams are made of, that's what you want, that's what you want you want to be, you want to be doing that, but yeah, but there was more to it which I'll get into now.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So my first year, crawley Town really good, like I said at the beginning, was very good, deemed to be the next big Crawley Town star and played and was a striker, was doing really well.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: But a lot of things I didn't take in consideration Ryan, which many young players shouldn't have to, in my opinion, but is a business.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Football is a business and people tend to forget that because the love of the game and whatnot, but it is a business.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And what I didn't take into consideration, excuse me, was the fact that you know people weren't getting paid on time.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: We had a first team manager change.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: We had about six first team managers in two years.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: We had five chief execs in two years as well.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: So at my time at Crawley Town there was that many changes changed over, so there was no stability, there was no constant at Crawley Town.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: We didn't have a training ground at the time.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: We was training in public facilities where people were walking their dogs and there was kids on there and we had to lie and kick them off.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And even then this is my first and second year, by the way and also the pressure from the youth team manager because we weren't, our performances weren't great.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of good players in our team but there wasn't a full team.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: So there was a lot of standouts like me, alex Lang, a guy called E-man as well.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: They were good players but we weren't a team was losing a lot of games and a lot of pressure was coming from the first team to say what's going on with the youth team.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: We saw Cecil say we saw Cecil and Alex and reserve and the reserve team doing really well.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: They come back to the youth team and things are going wrong.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: And then the manager was taken out on us and that's where it became toxic.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: The manager started to fill the pressure of the youth team manager and put it on us and being, if I'm honest, really evil.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So I bullied a nasty side to throw stuff us in the changing rooms he was.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: He was victimizing a lot of players and Crawley town became very toxic.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: It was a place I started to hate and resent.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I got taken away from my mom and that sounds very dramatic, but in a sense that I got told I had to leave where I live and move into digs, which is basically a accommodation for players to be close to the club.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: But there was no reason for that because I lived close to the ground.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I was never late for training, I was never late for matches, but there was a thing where was claiming housing benefit for the property was living in me and another player and they had a spare room that I had to fill to pay the whole rent for the host family.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: That spare room was actually a cupboard that they made into a bedroom which I had to live in in a very bad area, which obviously would affect me personally when I'm trying to be a footballer Mentally.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I know people will say stop all the excuses, like you're living the dream, you're a footballer.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: But honestly, these little things really, really affect people, especially at a young age.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Like you know in the team 16, 17, on top of all the pressure we're getting from the manager so I am rambling on, but I want to give everyone the full picture of why I didn't enjoy being a footballer and this is part of it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I ended up going on loan to an admission first team a team where Miko Antonio came from to an admission.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It was a non-league club, but a very well known non-league club good facilities, good setup.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And I went there when I was 17, 18,.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: It was in my second year at Crawley Town and I was flying Ryan, absolutely flying because the club showed me love.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Unlike my manager at Crawley Town, he appreciated me.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I played every minute of every game I was available for.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So I played every 90 minutes.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I scored the most goals I've ever scored at a professional club a non-league club, sorry and I had the most professional teams watch me.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: At two admissions I had teams from Premier League Championship come down and watch me because I was 18, 17 years old, making a lot of noise in Ishmael Prem.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So that was like my good times.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I loved it, absolutely loved it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And when I went back to training, so I'd play for them on the weekends and sometimes in the week, but I'd go back to train full-time in Crawley Town and I was getting blasted by my manager.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So he was like why are you scoring for them?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Why are you doing so well for them?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: But when you come here, and all of that was just due to man management and how he was handling and dealing with us.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: And these are things I don't get brought up when it comes to young players and how delicate they are in that key stage of development, 16 to 18, that contract year where you make or break, in my opinion, professional footballers.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I wasn't treated right and had a terrible time there but had a great time on loan and towards the end of that time I got released from Crawley Town by any.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: We all got invited.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: All the players got invited to a meeting, got given an envelope.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Don't open it here, go back to your home or in your car and open it Awful way, by the way to say thank you for the two years you've been here and find out if you've been given another contract or you've been released.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: And I got released from Crawley Town at the age of 18, but I went back.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But that's the next stage.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: But I hold that.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: The two-year period of Crawley Town.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: The next stage is where things again, it's a long story, but it builds.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm curious at that point.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Right, Culture, it's something I talk a lot about with athletes, especially when we move from one environment to another.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: There you discuss three different environments, the sense you had as you walked around the dance schools, the performing arts and then the two clubs.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: What would you say is the difference, or how would you describe the difference across the love you felt at dance, the love on loan and, I guess, Crawley Town?
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: It's a nice question.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I like that one.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: The difference in environments.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: My flip through in Brit school was just it felt like they wanted me and they just took me in and that was only one day of an audition and I can touch back into that memory because I remember it was something that my mum was right about.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: She said this is the place for you.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: As soon as we left the building but I obviously went against her wishes.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Then go into Crystal Palace.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: There's also I should really say this on camera because I do work with them but there is still not issues.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: But it's football, it's a business.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I think at the Academy at Crystal Palace they have a hub of South London footballers where there's a lot of talent there, but again, there's a lot of problems there.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: There should be a lot more coming out of Crystal Palace but there's even today, even last week player that I was at Crystal Palace with a guy called Jovan Palmer.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: He was there and he's talking about the issues at Crystal Palace when he was there.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: There is issues within the academy, but it was very professional there.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It's a very professional setup, but it's difficult to make it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Then, going to Cooley Town.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: The environment there was different.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: It was very I don't know.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: It was eye-opening, right.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It was just like your dream is what you believe it to be Like.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Every day is amazing and you're playing football for a living.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: How is it getting better?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: But then you go beyond the curtain and you think you should look beyond the curtain and say, oh my God, this is the what it really is.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: This is the reality of it.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Like there's pressures from above and you're chasing payments and there's things chopping and changing and you've got to play the game.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: You've got to be nice to certain people, you've got to be professional.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: You've got to be.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You get dropped for no reason.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: The manager's not giving you any reason to drop you, but you have to work out yourself and not sulk and, you know, not be emotional.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: It was difficult, it was very difficult.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I believe the game is changing now.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of welfare managers and all of that, and I work in helping young players as well.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: So there is it is improving, but there's still problems there and it's professional football.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most difficult careers to you know sustain.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: So I understand in a sense why it's like that, but at that time it was very difficult and it was.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It was unnecessary that the manager was taken out on young players, young boys who have a dream and you're killing it for a lot of them.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: And then going to Turnt and Mitcham, the environment there was, it was the culture, it was the mandem, it was like it was South London.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: It was everyone just coming together.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of players I was playing with were a lot older than me, but they were ex-players, ex-pros somewhat had a guy from Fulham who's also talking about issues in the game, as our guy called Max Noble.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of players that were of top quality in that team and we've done very well and I was the standout striker in that team and I don't know you just you felt wanted and I know it is.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: You could say you know the good times are really.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: This is what football is.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: The good times are really good.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: The hard times are really really difficult and I don't know.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I'm a confidence player as well.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So you know, if you're feeling loved and you're feeling wanted and appreciated, you know I, like many players, that that's when you succeed and you fly.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: And I do a lot of work with Marcus Rashford, which we'll get to later.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of these adverts, my body double for him.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: He's the same and we haven't gone through the same things, but we relate on such a level when it comes to that and confidence and being believed in and how that can affect your game so much.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I do shoots with him and we speak about it all the time.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: So it's funny he's at the top level and I was nowhere near that level, but it's similar throughout the stages.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, man, the dynamics in different environments, but that is kind of an idea of what it's like across those environments.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for that.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: It is interesting when we look at that underlying culture and, like you said, well, she might be living the dream, he might be doing something that you should be loving, if the culture, that environment around it is dysfunctional 100% and I'm gonna quickly talking to just briefly as well.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Like and everyone listening, my culture was as well, as my dad wasn't really around.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: My mom was there but she didn't ever watch me play football.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously she she wanted me to go to dance.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: He doesn't enjoy mud.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: She's very she's approved.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: She's like should never come and watch me.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm giving you this context because I didn't have the pressures from my family.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: At the end of day, it was all down to me and, yes, at times I lied to my mom and said everything was fine when it really wasn't.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: But there was no like which I get because I speak to Young players now they have pressures from their families to say this is my ticket, this is my ticket out, my child is my ticket out.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: So imagine having that pressure as well.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: On top of you know, you've got pressures of social friends saying that you're a professional club and you expect to make it and change their lives.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: There's, there's so many other things parents may be passing away that you have to deal with whilst being a footballer Not being able to, which I do have a little bit not been able to be with your close friends Because they are taking a different path.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Like they go into college they're doing my friends are going out to raves and doing Subsidies that I could not get involved in because I'm living a professional life.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I can't be with them, so you lose friendships, you.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: There's so many underlying issues and and, of course, the narrative from people that that hear this From footballers is like just get on with it, like you're living the dream.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: But this it's not.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: That.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: It's really isn't.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And the reason why I say that is because I wouldn't change what I get to do now for a living to be a professional footballer, and that is the clearest picture I can give you, because that is most people's dream to be a professional footballer.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I would not go back or trade the life that I live now to do that.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, those are other things that can affect players.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I had my things that affected me, but there's other things that also affect players performances.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So, given the negative experience you had at Crawley, scholarship was done.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: You got the envelope.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Terrible way, by the way, but you got the envelope.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It was saying you're done.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: What were your options?
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely nothing.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: What were your options, boy?
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing, nothing at all.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Now this is where the issue Lies.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Within football, however, it is changing.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I have to really double down on it, because one I'm part of it as well.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I'm part of a life skills specialist team where I help mental young players which will get to towards the end, but at that time there was nothing, and even today there is small things.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: So I'll give you the small thing, so you get.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: You get exit trial, and exit trial is basically it's like a, it's like a meat, a meat market.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: You go to a one-day game with a load of players You've never met who have all been released.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: You have yeah, you're lucky to get 90 minutes.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: You don't really get 90 minutes.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: You get half a game max to play in front of scouts, which I don't actually believe.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: There's that many top-level scouts that I believe it's mainly the, the US scouts.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So the US scouts are People from the USA that want you to come over and do education and play football.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: You get a scholarship, which is actually another route.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I have many friends that have done it and they've had an amazing time, got a good qualification from it and also played football in Front of big crowds.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: So by any means, poo poo in that that option is fine, but for me it's not what I wanted.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I was a big mommy's boy.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave my mom.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I actually offered a contract my scholarship story to go to SFU, which is in Canada, vancouver, but I turned it down.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: So I was too scared to leave my mom and that's to be on end of my mommy's brother.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I've got no shame in saying that, but it was a massive opportunity and I turned it down.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't get any interest from any clubs professionally and many people don't, so that was the one option and I believe that is really it.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: You do a BTech in coaching on your sign scholarship boys, so you have a coaching badge.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: But at that stage I was sick of the game.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I hated football for the way I was treated, and finding out the real truth, the truth behind football, made me not like the game.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I just want to be a player, and if I couldn't do that, then what else would I want to do?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And that's the same for most boys.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: So there wasn't anything really.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I went on trial and continues trying to chase the dream at many clubs.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: One of the ones that stood out was not in the forest.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I went there for a long period of time and this is my last professional club and this is a decision for me to stop playing was after that club, because I was there for a while I lived with the players, got told they were gonna sign me.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: They really liked me.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: They prolonged my trial period, like they kept saying we're gonna keep you for an extra week, we're gonna keep you for an extra week, we're gonna keep.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So I kept seeing boys come go, come go.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: But I was kind of the consistent for a few months.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I was also getting paid expenses, so envelope with extra bit of money to live up there with the players in digs and I thought this was gonna be it, I'm gonna sign, and I was with the first team as well.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a similar to crudely town.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But that didn't happen.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: They stringed me along and what I didn't know was I was up against a kid called Tyler Walker.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Now, I knew Tyler was with this in the club, but I didn't realize who he was.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: So we was on trial.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: He was there, we was there, was there, was there.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I got released after a few months after being told I was gonna sign for not in the forest.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: They really liked me.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: They're just trying to sweat out the funds and all this and was malarkey turns out they went with Tyler Walker and then later on, so after a few months later, after I left not in the forest, I went to a few non knee clubs.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: During this time I researched who he was.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So Tyler Walker is Des Walker's son.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Des Walker, if you don't know, was a phenomenal player, for not in the forest.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: His son was the guy I was going up against.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: So realistically, I was never really gonna win this battle.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: His father's photos are in the training grounds.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: They're on the wall.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So but I didn't know this at the time.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was Tyler, another player, mixed raised look like me, a striker playing for the same position, and if my opinion, I thought I showed a bit more, but that's just, I'm gonna be a little bit biased.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they went with him and after that I just said you know what the politics of this sport is too much for me, it's time for me to hang on my boots.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: But I say hang on my boots.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I went on League for a bit, but I made a decision at 19 years old to retire from the game and say I'm not doing this, I'm not chasing the dream, I'm not gonna continue fighting to be a footballer because I'm gonna end up being 27 the age I am right now still trying to make a career out of football.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: There's more to life than that and it was a very mature decision.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I'm in my personally.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not blowing blow my own trumpet, trumpet again.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: But at 19 years old to then say I'm not doing this, instead of all the rest of my players that were at Crawley, we're still trying to be footballers I said now let's do something different.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: And that's where things kind of this is where they pick up.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: The second wind comes in this, where the talent transfer happens.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: It's where everything, the story changes completely.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's quite a load that you must have been on at that point.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: You know the dream having to accept, Admit that it was over.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: It was a tough time.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I missed us another big detail.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: So whilst I was at not in the forest, but just before then, obviously I've been released from Crawley Town.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I had a really good relationship with the Chief Exec at the time, one of six, and at Crawley Town His name is Richard Dunford.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I Text him because I had his number.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Only one had did his number.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: A good relationship of him.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I said look, can I come back and train with the first team just to stay fit whilst I go on trial at other clubs?
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Obviously, in the back of my mind I'm thinking if I can train with them, I might get a move here to Crawley Town.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: They might actually want to sign me because the first manager fell out, the youth team manager.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I had no chance of becoming pro at Crawley because there was no hope there.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: But if I'm with the first team you might see me and give me a contract.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: He actually granted me permission to do that and to give everyone else clarity that listening, crawley Town shut down everything.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: No reserve team, no youth team.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: They shy all down.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: The year I got released.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: All they had was the first team and to this day they still don't have a An Academy setup, it's just the first team, which is really sad actually, considering that that's you a professional football club.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: But I went back there, trained every day out of my own pocket, no money.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I was using my mom's money and eventually I ended up having no money because I was also using some of the funds I had from when I was a player, training with the first team every day.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: And then I had that period at Nottingham Forest, got released, played one match, cup, get match for Crawley Town and they offered me a non-contract.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: A non-contract Ryan's for you to be just and everyone listening to be Clear is a contract, but you don't get paid.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: They offer me a one year with a one year option.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: So that was a big decision for me.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I turned it down and I know I sound like that was very a confident answer.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I just turned it down.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: It took me about two weeks to turn it down.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I sat with mum and she said do you really want to do this?
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Do you really think?
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: There are too many stories of bankruptcy, is mental health issues and, unfortunately, suicide, and so I think it's time to act.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: After a week sport, this might be a retirement injury, or they need to juggle dual careers, between sport and a job.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: As a former English professional Footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking, strategy, innovation and now life coach, career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy, so I want to help those around me find their career.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Second with Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: What were you contemplating?
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: What were the options you had in your mind?
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: As they're giving you the non-contract, as you say, it's like a zero, a zero hour contract in some respect.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what it is.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: That's literally what it is Going from my mind at the time was when I first offered.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: It was after the literally after the game.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: The cup match is against Espawn Town or Espawn there's two of them.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It was against Espawn and what, no one knows.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: No one knows this.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Actually it was gonna be a first.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I was playing out of position.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: They put me in center back so they'll for me a non-contract, with no idea of what position I played, because I played against Redding under 21s in-house game For them and I played up front.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Then I played center back for that cup game, so I didn't know what position I'll be playing for them.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, at the time I was like they've offered me a contract, let me take it.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I'll be a professional footballer, I won't be getting paid, but I have that title.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to do take it.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And I actually remember into being in a change rooms after speaking with the assistant manager Been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let me go back and speak my mom and yeah, I'd love that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: But I then took a week sat with mom and she said do you really want?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Like, are you happy?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: And that was a question that really really hit the nail on the head and I wasn't, so in the end I turned it down, I said no, and that's when Crawley said okay, we don't need your services, you know you can't train with us anymore.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that was more the nail in nailing the coffin for me to say I'm stopping playing football instead of trying to find another club.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it was tough, man that was.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: It was tough, but it right to do so and the life I live now it warrants that decision.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, but it was hard at a time, at 19 years old, walking away from the game.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And so, what did you?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: do next?
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of time of me thinking what am I gonna do?
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I got my first ever job Actual job at Nando's in Gatwick, but this filler time, the time between me, decided I want to go into into performing arts in the industry.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say so it's a filler time, but that's retrospectively.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: It's a filler at that moment.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Do you remember?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: What were you thinking?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: What did you believe was actually going to be next for you?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I Said so my manager, my you've seen manager he said to me you will never amount to anything bigger than this ever in your life.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: He said that to me when he was bullocking me for something small.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I think this is a trainer session where I had a bad training session and those words Stuck with me.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So when I got released and I was in this low period I was like I have to prove him wrong.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: That was a driving force.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I hate that man for passion and I don't hate anyone, but I should really.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I remember speaking.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: So I said you should really not thank him but realize like he these spurred you on to do a lot, but no one should ever be that mean.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, those words stuck to me.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: So I just said I've got to do something and it wasn't gonna be in football, but I had to achieve something huge, whether that was be rich, successful, whatever it was.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: So during that low period I ended up doing a lot of random stuff.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: A few I did.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I went on TV.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I did young three and single on channel four.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I did a few channel four appearances for free, wasn't getting paid anything, but I was kind of destined to be like I want to be known, well respected, I want to be on TV.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I want to be a role model, wants to be, I want to be a shining light.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't know how and I was trying to find that that route.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And I did one job for, and the answer Sports on screen is the agency.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I did a body-doubling job.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Now people are gonna be thinking what the hell I did, like a casting, where, when I this is this year, when I got released I did a casting and went to a sports hall at a school, did some dribbling around the cones, did a celebration, what not?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: They film it, they take photos of you.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Got a text from that agency said would you like to be Marcus Ratchford's body double?
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I said, of course don't know what it was.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, of course.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I thought I'd have to go to Manchester and pretend to be him, sign contracts, walk around Manchester.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Didn't have a clue what body doubling was, but I thought that was it where some glasses, hoodie, whatever.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I accepted it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was, but then I got the direction to go to to get a train to St Pancreas, go to Manchester.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Boom, boom, boom went there.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: What a job it was.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: This was the time where Ratchford I think he was 17 years old he just burst onto the scene.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: It was the week, and I remember this specifically was the week when he got his new contract and he bought his mama house.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: And he's why I know that is because in the papers they were slamming him for buying his mama house, which is outrageous, by the way.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: We don't have to go into that as a whole.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Nother story but racial inequalities, but anyway, they were giving him a lot of stick.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So I met Ratchford on set for an advert for one of many night sponsors.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Because me, ratchford Rooney was there, pogba Matta was there, eric Baye as well.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: My eyes were just open to another world.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I said this is incredible.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: I was on set of Ratchford, very intrinsic player at the time, didn't really like to speak but funny enough, he warmed up to me His birthday was a day before mine and found that out.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: We had a good laugh about that and we spoke a little bit.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: And after that job, I said this is what I want to do.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what specifically, but I was like I want to be on set, I want to be playing football.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: These are my two passions.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I want to be front of camera and doing football in some capacity.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: It's not a professional footballer, but it's close.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: It's the closest to it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: So, with that in mind, loads of things happen.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: No, no, not loads things happen.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I'm still in this low period.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to this dance school on the weekends.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Ryan right, every weekend I go to this dance school.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: They rent out the space of my old school, my old secondary school.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Every Sunday I'm going now, I'm going now, I'm going there.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: The woman who owns it says like ah, cesar, we like you, come in here.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: She gave me a full scholarship, so I wasn't paying.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: My family went, my mom wasn't paying.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: We couldn't actually afford at the time.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It's actually kept British.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Except saying you know, what are you doing now?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I know you as a footballer.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: What are you doing now?
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I know you're the footballer, what are you doing now?
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: At first I didn't mind that.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It really started to great on me, really did after a few months of, because I kept saying so I'm gonna be a footballer again, I'm going on trial here, I'm going to try here.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: But in the end I had nothing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: So I said I don't know what I'm gonna do.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I have no idea.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: This weekend school and the reason why people.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: People might be thinking but you went to dance on a random one, why were you there?
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Just to give everyone context and clarity.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Every popular girl in my area, the pretty ones, the flexible ones, the ones that you know, the one, the ones I like, they were there.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So it made sense.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I thought I should be there because I was a cool kid, so I should be there.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: So I was actually there to meet girls.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, that was the main reason I was there.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: But I started to enjoy just dance and just picking things up.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: So she said to me the woman who owns it said look, go to this dance.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Convention is called move it.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It's in London, the main brand.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: So she's like a partner school of a telecony who does weekend school.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: She said go to the move it the main brand of a telecony will be there, just speak with them.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I spoke into the school about you just go there and just speak with them.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I went there bomb, the main brand was there.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I spoke to the main brand.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: They said look, come to a boys open day and we'll see if you like it.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: If I'm honest, I didn't want to go because I'm still doing that cool kid thing.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: No one wants to be a dancer.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: You know I get called gay and all that stupidness.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I went to the open day.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: I got a full scholarship off the back of that.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I tried to negotiate with the principal to give me just one year instead of three years, as she said.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: How cheeky of you.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: People would die for this contract, this scholarship.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: But I didn't understand.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I had it understand this whole world of performing arts and I didn't even accept it.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: On the last, on the first day, the opening day, I was coming back from a festival.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I said to my boys drop me off at the school.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna see what the first day is saying.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: And from there my life changed.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I went to a teleconty for three years.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I set up a business.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I found a new passion.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I got a lot of media attention.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I was on Sky Sports.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I was on being sports for making a transition from football to dance and, yeah, this is where my life changed.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And from here it's just been success, success, success.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I think what's fascinating for me there is you know I was going to ask you know you're doing dance?
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you turned your back on dance to become a footballer Right, and what actually took you back there was girls and being yes 100%, 100%, and I want everyone to make sure they understand that I went for the wrong reasons but left for the right reasons.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: It changed my life Well when you see, as silly as it sounds.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: One of the bits we often talk about is Well, on this show and with others is finding out what you're interested in and following your interests.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And you literally followed your interests into the weekend dance school.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: But in the end that turned out because that interest you were gifted at it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: You had an athleticism.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I suppose that you'd honed as a footballer, but you had it beforehand.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Now do you think being a footballer helps you to perform better or differently, or open doors differently for you as a dancer?
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, 1 million percent right and very good interview.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I like it because the questions are they just follow on perfectly, because that's how talent transfer was made.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I have a company called Talent Transfer.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: I speak with footballers, I'm part of an educational scheme.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I go to pretty much every football club, professional club in the country and that's where it was birthed, because I transferred my skills from football to become a performer and a dancer and I never thought I was a good dancer.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Even to this day, I don't believe I'm a very good dancer.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: People will say don't be silly, but I'm very athletic.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of flips, I can perform yes, I can sell a performance but a lot of it came from football and I don't know if it's going to be shown.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: But this picture here was a picture I made.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: It's half and half.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: It's me and a ballet, leotard and me playing football at Crawley Town and that was it Transfer and skills.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I got ridiculed for that photo.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I put it on Facebook, I put it on Instagram and I got absolutely killed.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: What are you doing in a ballet?
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: What is this?
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: This is how I'm barren, but I always show people that photo because I'm so proud of it, because I always come back to it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: The skills I chose led to where I am today.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: But the skills I took from football being athletic, fit, strong, powerful, my jumps, being able to do fitness, conditioning and, funny enough, when I did that boys open day, a lot of the classes reflected what I do in football.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: So we did strength and conditioning, we did fitness.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we did commercial dance, but I believe I was okay at that.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: All you've got to do is really look cool and just copy the choreographer Singing.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I can't sing Terrible, so I failed in that.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: I know my teacher gave me a low mark in that, even though I still got a full scholarship.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: So big up them.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Acting.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a bit of an actor.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I like to act, you know.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I like the camera, so did well in that.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, and then ballet was a whole new thing for me.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: But I was athletic and that's half the battle is looking strong and upright and whatnot.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it took me a lot to learn ballet and retrain my body, but it was something I took immense, immense appreciation for because it's difficult and it also bettered my game.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it all came hand in hand.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: But it seems so far off and I think people will think that ballet or dance and football, but they actually went hand in hand and they built me a career.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and for me that in itself that transition.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: What is fascinating is the athleticism, is that your body as that vehicle, and on the show I speak with athletes professional footballers, olympic athletes, dancers and the bit that is common is control of your body and being able to move and express thinking or emotions and that type of thing.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: So when you look now, as you know you spoke about turning your back on dance, coming back into it the environment that you had in the dance school again, how would you describe that?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: What would you feel at home?
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Still a bit of a little bit of a secret, a little bit for the first year.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I never told people I was trained as a dancer because, really as well, I've come from being a professional footballer earning money, then going back to being a student, and I am starting late.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Technically, a lot of people join a tally con to you either 16 or some 18.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, there was some older starts, but I was one of the oldest in my year at the time, being 19 years old.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: But it was a bit of a secret but it was.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: I went in, coming from professional football for being a professional footballer To a school where there is many women and I'm one of the only straight guys in my year.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So the first year I'll keep it 100 with you guys.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I'm saying a lot in this podcast that not many people know, but I was.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I was enjoying, shall we say a lot because you know that was the main reason why I got into dance.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: But then it became a problem, it became an issue.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I got basically the principal of the school at the end of the first year said if I have another girl come to my office crying about you, I will get rid of your scholarship and that would, which would have meant I'd have to leave the school because I wouldn't be able to afford it.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: There's fees are like 12 grand a term and my family couldn't afford that.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: So it was a big eye-opener for me, and what happened in that period was a light bulb just switched in my head.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I stopped messing around, because what happened was I went back to that period of what manager telling me I won't amount to anything again bigger than this in my life.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Then it went to the period of me working in Nando's and thinking, well, if I leave here, what do I do next?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Because I haven't actually got anything off the back of this.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: This is really, is really is the second win in the last shot.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: So I changed.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I changed.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I lessened a little bit in my activities with the students, but I also was very mature in a sense that because of my experience as a footballer, I started befriending the teachers.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I was very mature mentally as well, so they started to take a liking to me in a sense of like they were trusting me.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I was speaking to them like we're on the same wavelength and I started to focus more on Becoming a better dancer when I was a footballer.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: You come in, you're in an environment where you're all fighting for contracts.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: So you're looking at everything around you, you're trying to beat the next part.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You're very much.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: It's a toxic environment, even though they are your family, because you build a very good relationship with footballers but you're all fighting for one contract, technically, and I focus more on everyone else.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: When I was at dance, I focus loads on myself because I'm starting late a lot of these boys and dancers and the girls they've been doing dance the whole life, so I was already at a disadvantage.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: So my thing was Cecil, look just better yourself each day, bit by bit, bit by bit, doesn't matter whatever else to do, because they've been doing this the whole life.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So you are behind, but you can catch up if you focus on yourself, not on what they're doing.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: They're doing triple pirouettes, which you'd never been able to do in your life.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: So and that, I'll be honest, was the best thing I ever done, because in the second year I went from here, I flew and then the teachers saw that and I got the featured role in in massive performances, summer shows, the move it Performance.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I was the lead in the move it performance.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: My confidence grew.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I got better and better and better.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: This is when the media attention started coming in.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I was in the papers, I was in the daily telegraph.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I was on being sports of Andy Graham, richard keys, talking about transferring skills from football to dance.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: I was from Sky Sports talking about, yeah, athleticism and how I've made the transition into another industry.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And then I set up my company talent transfer.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: In my second year so 20 years old, I set a company up called talent transfer.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It was an idea where I just wanted to speak to young players, firstly to understand and tell them that you shouldn't be treated the way I was treated and how you deal with that, who you speak with.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: And then it kind of progressed into a whole workshop on Second careers, talent transfer and the skills you get from being a professional footballer, how you can relay them in other careers.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Looking at my career as an example, there's many others as well and speak on a carla who's he was a professional footballer, End up being a writer and rapper and activist.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: We are third man.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Was a professional footballer in the Premier League.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Now has five, does interviews, does YouTube.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: There's Marvin Morgan RIP.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Has fresh ego kid was professional footballer.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Has a designer clothing line.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: There's loads of examples.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Reese Roy, by who's at man City, has a great clothing line in Manitouvara, so it just built it.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Built to be a full-on workshop and give players the mindset that this isn't the end story for me If I don't make it here.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And during all this and Actually sorry, let me give you just a little bit more on that a lot of doors were closed.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Message Premier League clubs are measured Premier League.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: They will not have an ounce of it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: They'll say and what makes you any different to any other player we've released?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: And your story doesn't seem any different to anyone else.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And all this.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: But one guy gave me an opportunity which was my educational officer at Crawley town and he said look, I'll give you a trial at three clubs.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: He was an older guy, he knew about my Hobbies of dancing and said I don't know why you're at Crawley town when you have so much talent in this, in dance.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Sorry, because he knew how bad, badly run the club was and he said I'll give you the opportunity.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: He said I don't know how it's gonna go, but let's just trial it.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And just to give you all the full picture here, I did the Millwall, stevenage and Danganham, redbridge.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I spoke with the players after that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: They started talking about mental health.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: One of the players of Stevenage said I don't want to sign a contract here because I know how serious it gets.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I love playing on the weekend with my friends.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about how the difference of that compared to being in a professional club, which was for me I was like, wow, you're 16 saying this.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: I couldn't deal with that.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't know how to do that.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: So I told them and they were like Cecil, we need these.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Talks Like this is when the mental health epidemic was kind of going on as well, where people are starting to talk more, but it kind of was the perfect time.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: So that's when it kind of got taken on board.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but that's that's when it all happened.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I set up a company and I also was doing dance jobs at the time as well, so yeah, that's that.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: I think that's wonderful.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: When you think about that period, I'm curious now what impact did you want?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: What impact did you want to have on others?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Because earlier on we spoke about the start of your career and we were saying, yeah, I want to be a footballer.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: The glitz, the glamour, all of that.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Now you in this place, what was that new?
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Here's the, here's my outcome, here's what I'm, here's my passion.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: What was the impact that I want?
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: That is class, I don't know.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I just didn't want any player to go through what I went through.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: That was the North Star.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: For me I can't have that because the dropout rate was already crazy.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: What it was, it's 0.012% make it to the Premier League.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: It's a hundred and fifty kids make it to a Premier League club from youth team level out of 1.8 million.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: So that, and that's at youth level.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: That's not taking in consideration all the kids that not in the professional game.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: But I want to be footballer.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: So the dropout rate was already extremely high.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I just didn't want anyone to get to the stage I was at and then be treated awfully.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: So that was always my main passion and then it just developed to like there's more to more to life than being a professional footballer.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: There is more to it and if you don't make it here, it's not the end for you.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: You're still very young, you're 18.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: You might be 19.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: , you may even be 20.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: There's a long life to live.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So that was with the impact I wanted.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't really see it at the time, but again it's worked.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I've been recommissioned yet six years in a row now with the LFE, which is legal football, of education, to speak to young players and offer advice and mentor.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: So, and if I'm honest, that had been enough.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: For me, ryan, like everyone's dream is to, is to have a good career, then to have a give back, like be able to affect the next generation.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I have something that you can say is your legacy You've helped this kid continue on in life or do something else, and I've been given that opportunity at 19 or 20 years old, so I was already extremely happy with that man and it's something.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: It's my baby, is something I'm so proud of to this day.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: And yeah, man, that was kind of the impact I wanted, but it just grew because my career grew.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: So I went from being told I won't amount to anything bigger than being a Crawley Town.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: So now being an AFTV Representative while I speak to fans around the world and I've also body double for the best athletes in the world Marcus Rashford, oli Watkins I do, I did a Bamiyang, I've done, I've done loads of players, I've been in a film, I've done dance gigs, I've done modeling campaigns, I've I've really excelled and and and it sounds so creamy and mushy me speaking about myself, but it's helped talent transfer grow as well, because, as good as I do, it helps the company grow as well.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Because the young players are Looking at me like, oh okay, if he can do it, I can do it.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: And and they always ask me at the end of my workshop, like, be honest with me, like I said in this, this podcast, would you want to be a professional footballer again?
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: And I always say no, like if I got off of the contract now, unless and I always say this, I do caveat with with this unless I'm signing for Arsenal and I'm gonna be a Bacchio Sacro or TIM Read.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: That's different.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: But I know in myself I was never gonna reach that stage.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: I was a good footballer, very good footballer, but not in the forest was probably my level, championship was probably my level, and I think getting to the Prem takes a lot of Luck, but I don't think I ever would have made it to the Premier League.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: So when they asked me that question, I say no.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: What I get to do now for a living is incredible.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, aftv are full of Arsenal, the team I love, and on top of that I'm now work with on the face of Conker Kafe, which is a governing body of football for South America, north America, central America, mexico and and Canada.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I was flown around the world for the World Cup in all the host countries Argentina.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I was there when Azar is when they won the World Cup.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: My life right now is incredible and it's been a long journey.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: It's been a lot of downs.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: It's been amazing highs yeah, man.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: And then the company also like second-win talent transfer is a second chance for a lot of things.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: That's just a.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: That's that.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It's wonderful to hear and wonderful to understand the steps you took, the steps you followed in some respects to get to where you are today, and I think that's really compelling for those listening, because we're able now to talk about how you did it, not just what happened, but you know talk about how some of those things came through, and I think that's that's wonderful for you to share in that way.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: You know we're talking about where you are today, the being at the World Cup.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: You know blowing up on socials, making an impact for players.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: As I come back to that, what helped you recognise it was more than dance.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: You went into doing the dance school.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: What got you in front of the camera, on the microphone?
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: How do you think you got that opportunity?
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I give you the exact answer.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: When I was in my last year at Tally-Con-T my third year the principal said you're going to be a dancer.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: And I said but I don't want to be just a dancer.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: And she said, yeah, but you're so good at dance that is what you're going to do.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: And I said I hear that, but I don't just want to be a dancer.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: And then I thought it was just her that was saying it.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: But we do an agency showcase.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Funny enough, it's like an exit trial at football.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: You do an agency showcase at the end of your training and those agents come and they look to sign you to be part of their books.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I got interest from seven agents, which is, by the way, is a massive achievement.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: People really rarely only get even don't really get one interest.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: But I got interest from seven agents and I had interviews with all of them and every single one of them said you're going to be a dancer.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: The main thing they kind of pushed in on was it was a time when Friller was auditioning and they said you're going to be in Friller, we can get you in there, we can get you to audition your book.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: It like this you look the perfect profile for Friller.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: You know they're going to love you.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: You're great dancer, it's commercial, you do flips.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: They love flippers, trickers.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: And I said to every agent funny enough, all of you guys have said this, but I don't want to be in Friller.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: And they were like what?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I don't want to be in the West End, that's not where my dream is.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: And they said, ok, so what do you want to do?
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I said I want to be an actor.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: And they were like but that's not going to happen, cecil.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I said why?
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: But they were like you've trained in musical theater for three years.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: You're an amazing dancer.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Why do you want to be an actor?
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I've done dance.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: What I didn't say as well when I was training, I was also doing jobs.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So I did a lot of music videos.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I worked with Little Mix.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I've done dance gigs.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I've done that and I know I can do that.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to just be comfortable and do that.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I want to do things I haven't I haven't been doing and I like acting.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I've always wanted to be an actor.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I have friends that are very successful actors and I wanted to do it.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: So I had those meetings and they tried to box me off and I was.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I refused to be in a box.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: So I said I don't want to be in thriller, I don't want to do that.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And a lot of them all of them actually they all pulled their interest away from me and I didn't sum up any agent.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: I stuck with an agent I had before I was at Atelier Conti, who was very quiet whilst I was training, which was respectful.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: But once I left I said look, all the agents I met with said I want to have to be in thriller, but I don't want to be that.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: And they said that's fine, do what you want to do and we'll try and get you in there.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So when they gave me that permission I said I'll do everything I want to do acting, modeling, dancing.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I can't sing, so I didn't say anything to do with singing Another reason why I didn't want to be in the West End.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to do all those things.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't say presenting, because presenting just seemed it wasn't part of the industry.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Your disciplines are more acting, dancing, modeling was kind of there because I was doing bits before.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: So I did that and I did a lot of work.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: When I graduated I did a lot of stuff.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I want to highlight some.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I did an advert for McLaren.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: As a dancer, I was the main model, econ model for two clothing, which is Sainsbury's clothing line, so you can still find these photos to this day.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of their photo shoots.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: If you go on to clothing, you may still see my face.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: So I did a lot of modeling.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: I did campaigns.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of sport campaigns for like player, which is like the vests.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I did night campaigns.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: I did Adidas.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I did new balance.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I did I did a lot of campaigns and I enjoyed being in front of the camera doing that.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: My body doubling kept going on as well.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: So I ticked a load of boxes and then I got.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: I get bored very often, so I was like, okay, I've done modeling, done dancing.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Acting was something I wanted to crack but I couldn't.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Acting is like a whole other discipline where you have to have a good agent and all that.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: And I tried my hardest.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I trained in it, I did out exterior lessons.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: But what happened?
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: One thing happened COVID hit.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Now, this was so I did a lot of years of doing all these disciplines, but COVID hit and then I lost everything.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I was freelance.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I lost absolutely everything.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I was no work.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I had to use the money that I had saved to live, and off the back of that was the time where I auditioned for a film as a dancer.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: I got right to the end.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I met the director in America through Zoom and stuff and I believed I was going to get the job.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I found out through Instagram.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't get the job through one of the guys I was auditioning with.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: He put up on his Instagram saying he got it and I was heartbroken.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: But that same day I went to the gym to let out my anger.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Robbie Lyle, the owner of AFTV, rang me and said we want to give you a role as a presenter on a channel.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Now, that didn't just come out of the blue.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I threw LinkedIn.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: He put a post saying we're looking for two new presenters.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I applied for it.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: They knew of me because I played for AFTV FC, which is their YouTube team, but it wasn't really affiliated with Robbie and that, if I'm completely honest, it was kind of like a separate business.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: But I played for them and they also the production team films my documentary that actually went on AFTV.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: So Robbie knew of me, but I didn't really know me until we actually properly met.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: So I applied, I met with him a few times and he offered me the role as a presenter.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I missed out on anything here, and that is when I took the role as a presenter.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I hadn't had much training in presenting so I was very new to it, and people always, always remind me on every comment of every video.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Sessions improved so much when he first started and do you know what fair play I have?
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: But I was terrible.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I was like a deer in headlights because it was completely new to me.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Youtube was new to me and presenting was semi new to me, but I have improved, I must say.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: But it was the start of something great and from being here on this channel, the World Cup stuff happened and Robbie allowed me to.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't give up everything completely.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I still danced and Robbie allowed me to take holiday to do the Little Mermaid, which released this year.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: So people may have seen that as well.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: As in the Little Mermaid I got a credit as I was featured in the film.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I just achieved that.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: That was my dream to be in a film.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: So I tick that off and then, once I've done that, I kind of gave a scenario, I took my hat off to my career in performing arts.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Now I'm very much focused on YouTube and being a presenter and, yeah, that's where we're at.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Listen, cecil, I think the story.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I've enjoyed this conversation immensely, just working through, going through the steps, understanding your inflection points, the points where you've had to make.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: You know we spoke about your options, the decisions you made to get you to where you are right now, and so perhaps taking from the impact, or the workshops that you do when you I'm keen to leave those listening with some points.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Some of the you know the words of wisdom from you, but when it comes around to those listening trying to understand, hey, how can I best set myself up for that second wind, for what comes next after my and I'll say athletic career?
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: What sort of advice and guidance do you give them?
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I'm only 27 years old, so it feels weird given not even feels weird given advice, because you can take a lot from the story that I've spoken about on this podcast, and I've always been one that takes from people that have lived experiences.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: All my circle of friends are older than me.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Everyone I've associated myself with is older than me.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Most people in this office are older than me currently at AFTV and you take what you think will benefit your life.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I've done that throughout my whole career.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I listened to olders when I was playing football.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I was always playing up the years as well and listening to them and took from them Whether I don't know what age people are that are listening.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: But the only advice I can kind of give is there'll be a quiet bit, but just there is more to life than what you first believe, in my opinion and it's very cliche but never give up as well.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Like that manager telling me I'm not amount to anything more than being at Crawley Town really still burns a lot in me today and, yes, I believe I've surpassed that now.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, I just feel you have to just keep going, keep going, never give up.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: And this is very basic, basic advice.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It's the fact that I thought football was my dream and I hated every day of it is should paint enough of a picture for anyone listening, especially athletes, because we, as athletes, devote our lives to sport, whether that's anything gymnast, sprinting, football, rugby, cricket like it's another world.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: You give your whole life to it and, whether you make it or not, just understand this.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: It's not your full story.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: It never is.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Even if you become a footballer, it's a short lived career.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Even if you make it, it's not your full story.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: So if you don't make it, why should it be the same?
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: It shouldn't, it really shouldn't.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: So think of it like that, because that's what I did.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: It was never my full story and right now I'm enjoying going through these chapters.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, little bars for you there.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, but just just, just, just keep that, just just understand that.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the last thing I'd like to say on that, cecil listen.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I want to say thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely brilliant.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: No worries, it's been a pleasure man.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out SecondWindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: That's all from me.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Take it easy Until next time.