Latest / The Front / Kyle vs Jackie O: the courtroom face-off

Transcript

Kyle vs Jackie O: the courtroom face-off · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's Monday, March thirty, twenty twenty six. New leader Angus
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Taylor has saved the Federal Coalition from certain doom, according
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to the latest news poll for The Australian, which also
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: shows a whopping majority of Australians opposed to the Iran War.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: The Liberal Party has dumped its best known sitting MP
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: in Victoria, with Moira Deeming, who sued former leader John
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Pizzuto over a women's rights clash, dumped by a pre
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: selection committee in her own seat. Those stories alive right
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: now at the Australian dot com dot yu. Jackie O
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Henderson will be called as a witness to claim that
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Carl Sandalans subjected her to a prolonged campaign of bullying
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and harassment, an allegation Sandalans will strongly deny. That's just
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: one of the scoops in Steve Jackson's media diary today.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Jacko's here in just a moment. Steve Jackson edits The
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Australian's Media Diary and Steve, if you thought Carlin JACKIEO
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the radio show was good Carl versus JACKIEO. The court
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: case is going to be even better.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, the courtroom drama is going to eclipse anything they
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: did on their radio show. It's going to be bigger
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: than ben her.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So what's happening your reporting today that ARN is
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: considering calling JACKIEO as a witness against Carl Sandalance.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: That's what they're planning to do. So we'd all wondered
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: what had happened to Jackio and this. She'd come out
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: previously and said, hey, look, there's a little bit of
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: a misunderstanding about my role and what's happened with me
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: in all of this, and then all of a sudden
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: she went quiet again. And it turns out, according to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: my sources, she has actually tipped an absolute bucket on
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Carle Standlance behind the scenes when she first went to management.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And now they're planning on calling her as their star
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: witness and pitting Kyle and JACKIEO against each other in
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: court as they try to warn their way out of
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: this two hundred million dollar lawsuit.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So Kyle is suing for eighty five million dollars the
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: balance of his contract, and this is this part of
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: a court case where the lawyers do something called discovery,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: they try to work out what they've got, who they
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: can call as witnesses, what they can get from the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: other side in terms of emails and text messages and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: so on. So they will be seeking all of Kyle's
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: communications with Jaqio throughout time. He says he hasn't been
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: allowed to communicate with her since this all blew up
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: on air of a while ago. What do they think
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: JACKIEO would say in court that.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Would help them? I mean, this is the problem, right is,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you don't do discovery unless you have some sense of
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: what you're going to find, because it has a nasty
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: habit of uncovering all sorts of unwanted information. So from
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Arn's point of view, they know what Jackio's full complaints
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: are and they've alluded to it in court. Tom Blackburn
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Essie who's the senior silk representing AA, and they said
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: this isn't limited to what Kyle said on air on
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: February twenty on their last show together. It's not just
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: about that ten minute tirade where he attacked her professionalism.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: She's not just said I can't work with Kyle because
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: he's had that one blow up, that this is a
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: pattern of behavior, that he's acted like this to her
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: for years and it's finally she snapped. Of course, then
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: you've got Kyle coming out in front of court going, hey,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it's no different to how I've always behaved, and that's
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: exactly her point.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well he will be calling as evidence for him,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: no doubt, countless exchanges where he has had to go
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: at her, where she's had to go at him, where
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: they've both participated in some kind of revolting stunt or other,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you know, asking a thirteen year old girl if she's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: had sex, or getting people to urinate, and guess who's
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: making the sound.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Don't we?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: All the girls here were not all of them, but
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of them have recorded themselves. Yeah, and the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: boys will try and figure out who's flaps made that we.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I don't like this game.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: If you can't handle some bads, just step back.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I love it when courts get into this really sort
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: of unedifying matter and barristers have to say, well, you're
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: on there's a program known as Carlin Jackie O, and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: this is a skit on the show about urination.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, my learned friend has correctly adduced who was urinaching
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: at them?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, the point that Kyle will be making is
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: that this was what ARN was buying from these two
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: as contractors. And that's what makes it different from a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: normal employment law matter.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Normally, an employee would be able to say, I've been
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: dut it in some way, I've been unfairly dismissed, or
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I was bullied or something along those lines. Contracts are
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: much more complex, aren't they. Arn was contracting these two
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: individuals to deliver a product called the Kyl and Jackie
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: O Show. Now they can't deliver that. Surely Arn is
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: right that Kyle has failed to deliver the product.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they are right. He's saying that. Obviously he's happy
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: to turn up and do it on his own. He's
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: happy to work with any co hosts they throw at him.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So he's trying to come up with solutions the problem
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: he has here, and it's quite devastating from a human
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you know, when I put the journo media gossip writer
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: cap to one side for a moment, is that these
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: are two people with twenty seven years of history, twenty
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: seven years of text messages, twenty seven years of emails,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: twenty seven years of let's face it, there's going to
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: be jokes. There's going to be remarks about colleagues. There's
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: going to be all this unsavory, unseemly communication and correspondence
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: between them that, when read out in black and white
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: in court, is going to seem devastating to both of them.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: This is why these matters often settle, isn't it? Because
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: they might be saying unpleasant things to one another or
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: joking in an unpleasant way about politicians or business figures
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: or celebrities. But they also might be agreeing that the
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: boss is an idiot or the company is stupid, or
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: gloating about how they can't believe they are and signed
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a two hundred million dollar deal with them in the
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: first place. And courts are savvy. Judges are smarter than
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: allowing a business to use the court process to just
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: get rid of a contract that they don't like. Right.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: That's the issue here, isn't it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: The problem is is the judges aside. They have to
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: listen to all the evidence, and that evidence gets reported
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: every day, and it is treated so seriously and earnestly
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: that you know. It's that thing that comes down to
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: defamation cases where people say dig two graves because you
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: go after revenge. L you go out for something like
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: this to try to get revenge against aaren, and you're
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: eighty five million dollars and it uncovers a whole heap
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: of embarrassing comments and anecdotes and alcations. So if Jackie's
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: made all a series of claims about him bullying and
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: belittling her, does he really want to have all that
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: thrown about or tossed about in the media when he's now,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: let's face it, unemployed and he needs to get another job.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: As he says, he's got mortgages to pay, just like
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: everyone else.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Just like everyone else.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I sure is that in touch with a common person?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Actually, well, I was going to say, just like everyone
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: else who owns a mansion and has been earning or
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: was it seven hundred and ninety thousand dollars a month.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the sort of money that you never need
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: to work again. But Kyle obviously gets a lot of
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: his value and self worth from work, he said outside
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: court last week. But he just wants to get back
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to work. The fact that he's now taken this action
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: means that no one is going to put him on
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: air anywhere ever again, doesn't it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't think until this has played out. And for him,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: this is why you will see a lot of people
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: saying he's going to have to settle because once they
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: go through discovery and see what arena going to table,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: and look, they've both put together legal team, So this
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: is a battle of the titans in court. Whether or
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: not Kyle has bullied and berated and belittle Jackie O
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and it's subjected to a campaign of unfair harassment is
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: almost beside. The point is there's going to be days
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: and days and days of these allegations supposedly being lobbed
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: about in court, and you know what does that do
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: to his value long term? Yeah?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I mean we sound like we're kind of disapproving of
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: this process, but obviously we want this to get to
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: court because it would just be sensationally entertaining, wouldn't it.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I look sensationally entertaining. You do have a lot
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: of empathy for people who are going through this because
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: you know, anyone who goes through court, it's like a
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: heartbreaking process. I've given evidence three times and every time
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: going up there to give evidence and know that you're
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: going to be grilled, there's nothing enjoyable about it, and
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: none of those cases were even really about me, So
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you know, it's one of those things that I do
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: feel sorry for both of them. Yes I will be there,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yes I will have my popcorn, and yes I'll be
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: telling everyone every little snippet that I can find out
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: about it. But at the same time, I do not
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: envy either of them.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Oh the humanity, Well yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, newsrooms are
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: very stressful places to be and also they are a
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: lot of fun, but sometimes there are raised voices and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: hot tempers. Someone else who's been accused of bullying is
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Matthew McGrain, a producer who maybe not many people would
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: have heard of, but he got himself involved in a
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: dispute with Network seven. Now that's been resolved.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: What's happened there, Well, this is exactly what we're sort
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of talking about with the Carle Sanderlans situation with aarn Is.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: He sued Channel seven for what he claimed was unfair treatment,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: that they'd overlooked an injury, that he'd been overlooked for
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a promotion that he was entitled to at Sunrise, And
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: next thing you know, they've gone through all his emails,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: They've spoken to all these colleagues, and they've come up
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: with their argument, their defense, which is he's a misogynist
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: and a bully who picks on women in the news.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Again untested claims, but it's aired publicly for the first
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: time last month. All of a sudden, the case is
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: quietly settled. I'm told he's now leaving without very much money,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: because you know, that is just going to be devastating
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to his reputation. Even having those allegations played out. There's
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: also these unseemly claims about him using the ABC's flagship
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: investigative show as a bargaining chip in his own personal compact. Yeah.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: He brought this into the public domain by appearing in
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: a story by Louise Milligan on Four Corners, which was
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: basically about you know how evil networks heaven was. It's
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: not just women who say they cop it in this culture.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Why are you speaking out?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Because if you don't speak out, nothing gets changed.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And it's very unusual in that kind of report to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: have a source or an on camera interviewee who is
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: still working at the organization. Isn't it very rare? It
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was a great get for Luise Milligan, but he's remained
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: employed all this time.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: It's remarkable, well Milligan, actually she actually managed to get
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I think three, maybe even four people who were still
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: working at seven. Having spoken to employment lawyers, they often
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: say that the worst contracts in Australia are ones that
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: you sign with a television network. You sign away all
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: your rights and you get very little in return. So
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: a great get for her strong story. The difference with
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Matt McGrain is that seven is saying he boasted effectively
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: that he'd signed a contract with four Corners, saying I'm
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: going to give this interview and you can only Aready
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: five release it, and that he then was sort of
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: trying to use that as leverage, that threat that he
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: was going to allow his interview to be played out
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: publicly as leverage to get them to pay him what
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: they say were millions in compensation. And again untested whether
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: or not he's needed to manipulate the taxpayer funded media
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: broadcaster into sort of doing his bidding to try to
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: get him money.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be fair to him. His allegation again
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: seven in that full Corners report was that they had
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: not treated him fairly and not taken into account his disability.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: He used a wheelchair and he'd injured himself while trying
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to make his way home in his wheelchair. That was
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the allegation that seven didn't really care right either way.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: It's a really sort of sordid dispute that shows you,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: in no uncertain terms, exactly what Kyle Sandlands will be
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: looking at when it comes to trying to take on
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a big media organization.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Coming up the latest on a weather presenter whose unfair
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: dismissal case has taken a big new twist, and JACKI,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I can't let you go without asking for an update
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: on the Amber Sherlock situation. This is, of course, the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: lady from white jacket Gate, the former weather presenter who
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: was threatening to sue Channel nine oversacking her around the
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: time of her fiftieth birthday, calling them agist and sexist.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I've made this clear two and a half hours ago.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: But if it's an issue, I can get on out
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of here. He's an issue.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Go and grab a jacket, Jenny, as someone able to
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: grab me a jacket, please.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: She's had more to say during the week. What's happening there?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I gotta tell you at the moment
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: it feels like, you know, put your hand up if
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: you're not trying to see a media company. Everyone's having
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: a crack. She's claimed that nine is both ages and sexist.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Obviously nine is defending that, but the allegations themselves haven't
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: gone down well with her colleagues because what she's saying
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is agist, is that there are younger women who weren't
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: quite as experienced as her or had been giving favorable
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: treatment because they're only thirty nine as opposed to forty nine.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: What I'm being told by management in there is no
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: these young women or younger women weren't being given preferential treatment.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Her job was made redundant. It's now being filled by
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: four different people taking turns, so there's no one has
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: been given the job. But that also these reporters who
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: are filling in as weather presenter in Sydney all really experienced,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: all multi skilled, so to suggest that they were given
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: favorable treatment just because of their age is incorrect. On
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: top of that, she's said that Fiona Deer promised her
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: a job there for life and that she'd wheel her out.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure why she thought that might be some
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: sort of binding verbal contract that there you go.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to her credit ambusherlock. He's an expert
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: weather presenter. She's a great talent on TV. I saw
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: her every night on nine years for literally decades, and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I found it very impressive as a professional. But yeah,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: this is the most awkward thing in her claim is
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that she sat down with head of News Fiona Deer
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in the cafe downstairs at North Sydney headquarters of nine
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and Fiona said, oh, no, no, your job's not at
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: risk late last year. I feel for Fiona Dea because
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Fion probably wouldn't have known that that job was targeted
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: for redundancy, and even if she had, she couldn't have said.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: So, no one is crazy enough to go Claire, you
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: got a job for life. Hey, next week we're going
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: to sack it like that. Stuff like that just doesn't happen.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: But it's also not a binding contract. It doesn't mean anything.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: If you tell me that I, you know, I deserve
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: a pay rise, it doesn't mean I'm marching to payroll
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: next day. Claire promised me the pay rise. Where's the form?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: It's just it's a nicety, it's a pleasantry. What does
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it mean nothing? As Amber's found out, well.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Jacka, I can assure you that, as far as I'm
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: aware right now, you are not about to be replaced
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: by some hot, young twenty.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Five year old Hello. Good luck to him.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Steve Jackson edits the Diary in the Australian's Media section.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: It's live right now at the Australian dot com dot au.