Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Keys of Marinus (5/6)

Transcript

Talks to Luke Molloy & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Keys of Marinus (5/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:19
  None. A hamster with a blunt.
• 0:35
  Pen knife for doing quicker. Hello and welcome back to a
• 0:41
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 0:45
  podcast with me, Luke Malloy, whoever got with me today,
• 0:49
  That's your favorite hose. Dylan Reece.
• 0:52
  Hello. And Joe Ford, of course, and
• 0:57
  both of you lads are on trial today, the sentence of death.
• 1:02
  But what have you done wrong? You tell me, Joe.
• 1:06
  Well, I put on some sinister black gloves, knocked somebody
• 1:10
  out, and then stole something extremely valuable and I got
• 1:14
  this fucking geriatric after me now.
• 1:21
  Well, what's been up to? You're suspected this.
• 1:24
  I'm not a suspect. I'm the Doctor strolling Triumph
• 1:26
  at the. End of. 10 minutes.
• 1:29
  I'm your defence, I've got this. Of course, we later find out he
• 1:32
  doesn't actually have this, does it?
• 1:34
  No. And isn't that the most doctor
• 1:36
  thing of all? It just Bluffs his way through
• 1:39
  the whole court case. He somehow goes from I am that
• 1:43
  man to sitting there going oh fuck I lost.
• 1:50
  Can I ask you both a question? Please.
• 1:53
  Do How do you feel about courtroom dramas in general?
• 1:58
  I'm not in Doctor Who in general.
• 2:00
  In general, and then we'll go in.
• 2:04
  I mean, yeah, they're fine. I'd like the needs to be.
• 2:07
  I can't just be in a courtroom for like 6 episodes or
• 2:10
  something. I need there to be like. 14.
• 2:14
  For 14 I'm fine in there, the whole thing.
• 2:17
  If you're into cutting to lots of exciting adventures.
• 2:20
  Yeah, big close up on Colin Baker's face and I'm sorted.
• 2:24
  But yeah, they're fine. And in Doctor Who, they they
• 2:27
  work well, probably. Or maybe they can go either way
• 2:31
  because that that season of Broadchurch that was all a
• 2:33
  courtroom drama was the most tedious fucking thing I've ever
• 2:36
  watched in my life. It was so boring.
• 2:39
  But the 14 episodes of Trial of a Time Lord with all those
• 2:43
  whacking great close-ups on Colin's putting he face, that
• 2:46
  was absolutely delightful. So it can go either way.
• 2:49
  It depends on the material really.
• 2:51
  Yeah, it's for me. It's never really never reaches
• 2:56
  the height of peak drama, but most of them are perfectly fine
• 3:01
  and watchable. How many times has the Doctor
• 3:03
  been in some sort of courtroom trial?
• 3:04
  So we've got the end of the War games, Child of the Time Lord.
• 3:08
  We've got the Stones of Blood, of course.
• 3:12
  Great show. The car parking star beast.
• 3:15
  Oh God, did you make the link just because they both do the
• 3:20
  whole? Of the week.
• 3:23
  A brave new era dies at that point.
• 3:25
  Is there any more courtroom scenes in the new series?
• 3:28
  I mean it's. Not really a courtroom, but
• 3:34
  isn't Face the Raven got a sort of courtroom?
• 3:38
  You feel about it. Yeah, and I got a bit of a
• 3:41
  courtroom feel to those time bitches from Flux, you know?
• 3:45
  Yeah, that were standing there, you know, holding their robes a
• 3:48
  bit like that. I'm bitches.
• 3:51
  What are they called? Yeah, they are called that.
• 3:56
  And Jazz makes a fabulous time bitch.
• 3:58
  Oh, wait, wait, you've just, there's, it's not a courtroom
• 4:01
  scene, but there's that bit in the Cylorian city and called
• 4:03
  bloodworthy, sort of. Yeah.
• 4:05
  Do some administratory shit. Does anyone remember that?
• 4:10
  I wonder why we forgot that bit like.
• 4:13
  I will, I will defend Chris Chibnall for many things, but
• 4:16
  that second episode of that I, I maintain it's like somebody said
• 4:19
  on your podcast, it's a great build up, but that second
• 4:22
  episode is shocking. Can I ask you guys, do you think
• 4:24
  I went a bit when I suggested putting all the Moffat era
• 4:28
  children in a shower and gassing them stiff?
• 4:31
  Yeah, it was. It probably was a bit far, but
• 4:34
  only cause little Amelia's in that.
• 4:36
  They're oh, that's true, I'll make an exception for her, but
• 4:38
  all the rest, you know. I quite like the one from Hungry
• 4:42
  if I think he's all right. I don't know how we got here
• 4:45
  from gassing muffet children. I just I'm actually.
• 4:49
  Surprised is that there really isn't any courtroom.
• 4:53
  Well, no, because. To be fair.
• 4:55
  It's sort of. It's standing still and Doctor
• 4:57
  Who's always about running, isn't it?
• 4:59
  Yeah. We're always sort of moving on
• 5:02
  from one bit to another in Doctor Who, whereas I call them.
• 5:04
  It's just, you know. Not in Russell T Davis's new
• 5:07
  era, we're not. We spend 70% of it in one room,
• 5:12
  but it can't be. It is, but it can't be.
• 5:14
  I'm quite excited for the monks to come back in that big finish.
• 5:17
  I don't know where that's come from.
• 5:20
  Right. The monks are coming to Big
• 5:22
  Finish, Yeah. Classic Doctor, Classic Donkters
• 5:25
  Monsters. Yeah, they were a donkey of a
• 5:29
  monster. The monster are you for real?
• 5:31
  Is. In it, guess who else what the
• 5:32
  monsters are in Carbon, Easter or The Loop?
• 5:36
  Oh. My God.
• 5:37
  The loop Harry is a race. Can't be put me.
• 5:41
  Two or two hot for TV near you. And then the krill attainer in a
• 5:44
  double bill. Yeah, and raising it from.
• 5:48
  Yeah, and raised for Delta in the ballot then, isn't it?
• 5:50
  You're making this shit out is she is.
• 5:53
  She a classic doctor. Is she a new monster?
• 5:55
  I don't know. Have.
• 5:57
  I got her back. Yeah, they've got her back.
• 5:59
  Doing that Welsh accent again, yeah.
• 6:01
  I think. I think.
• 6:02
  It's Doctor. Ray and the loop Ari.
• 6:06
  They are truly desperate. I love their releases.
• 6:11
  And yet no one's bringing back the fucking vault.
• 6:14
  I know, I know all Mariners. There's never been another story
• 6:19
  set on Mariners, apart from that comic where John Hurt watches a
• 6:23
  a Gallifre, a Dalek ship from the Time War crash.
• 6:26
  They saw Basil's not had a spin off.
• 6:29
  He's not. He doesn't appear in anything
• 6:30
  else. Luke, Yeah.
• 6:32
  Can I put a challenge to you, please, after this recording?
• 6:36
  Because I know, obviously, that you can write because you put
• 6:39
  together that fabulous blog which had a wonderful writing
• 6:43
  style. Yeah.
• 6:44
  So if you could just hone all of your creative juices and write
• 6:49
  just a short story, return to Mariners.
• 6:53
  Yeah, OK. And then?
• 6:54
  Me, you and Dylan will axe it. Yeah.
• 6:57
  So you need at least three roles in it.
• 7:00
  And then I'll put it out on Hamster.
• 7:02
  And then there will be a sequel to Mariners.
• 7:05
  You can play Vaser because you've got the same pubes as we
• 7:09
  established this last episode, and I'll manage to get that into
• 7:13
  the scripts. Oh, and you can be Sabifa and
• 7:16
  Dylan can be Altos. I want to be young, just.
• 7:19
  Dead. I can't be.
• 7:20
  I think that's to bring him back.
• 7:21
  As well. Not in this version.
• 7:23
  Tell him you what I mean. Might be a prequel.
• 7:26
  No, wait, because we don't know what the powers of the conscious
• 7:29
  of Mariners are. We never really learned, do we?
• 7:31
  Maybe. I mean one time.
• 7:33
  I can do anything. Yeah.
• 7:36
  Yes you can. Including press play on.
• 7:39
  This right? That's me.
• 7:43
  Someone counted. Someone counted. 3.
• 7:47
  Two Jesus. 1. I mean they are head to toe in
• 7:53
  leather aren't they? The Void.
• 7:57
  We never find out whether it is just someone who looks like a
• 8:00
  human in a Ski with Ivan costume or whether it is that is what
• 8:03
  they look like. Right here.
• 8:06
  Right here. I think that they're the third
• 8:10
  there's evidence for They do just look like a human, but they
• 8:13
  were in a scuba. I like the idea that when they
• 8:15
  take the the helmet off their heads of the same shape like the
• 8:19
  sundarons fresh coloured. That's cannon.
• 8:23
  Oh yeah. OK, here we go back-to-back to
• 8:28
  Miss Marple. Episode.
• 8:29
  I never noticed this as much with Classic Who, but on this
• 8:33
  one I really noticed that it's been reshot for episode 5 rather
• 8:38
  than the end of episode 4. This one just sticks out.
• 8:41
  Sometimes it's really obvious, like like like a different
• 8:46
  camera angle or a different special effects, you know, like
• 8:49
  the the underwater menace 2 into 3, no one into two, sorry, where
• 8:55
  it's a one small prick and it'll all be over pulley and there's a
• 8:58
  close up on the fish person at the end.
• 9:00
  And then in episode 2 it's you don't see the fish person at
• 9:03
  all. It's totally different.
• 9:04
  Do we know? I thought we didn't have one.
• 9:07
  No, because they did. The Australian censors a load of
• 9:10
  pussies and they took that bit out.
• 9:13
  Oh, and then we've got 2 and. We've got the reprise, yeah.
• 9:15
  Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think it's trudged.
• 9:18
  Tricked me out, Luke. I wasn't.
• 9:19
  Tricky you are, I thought You're just bullshitting again.
• 9:26
  David Gillespie Pratt, I think, pointed out on the 10th Planet
• 9:29
  Missing Episodes podcast that there's an effort, there's an
• 9:34
  episode of that that we always thought was just the reuse clip,
• 9:38
  and he figured out that it was actually.
• 9:40
  Done differently. Oh, the side man in the snow.
• 9:42
  Yeah, he's fucking so good at those lists.
• 9:44
  He's clever. His YouTube videos are amazing.
• 9:47
  I know. Do you know what I love about
• 9:49
  them? They're short.
• 9:50
  They're short and informative. Some people go on for three
• 9:53
  fucking hours about 1 scene, you know?
• 9:55
  They're the sort of thing that if somebody I knew who didn't
• 9:58
  like Doctor Who caught me watching them, they'll be like,
• 9:59
  what the hell are you watching? But they're like crap to me.
• 10:03
  I'm like, give me, I want them all.
• 10:04
  I. Want them all those?
• 10:06
  That video was like series 9, the worst series of Doctor
• 10:11
  whoever and it was like 8 hours long.
• 10:13
  What did they talk about? Hours.
• 10:17
  I know the one. No, there was one for Jodie and
• 10:19
  there was one for Muffet. I was the Jodie one.
• 10:21
  I remember that was five hours. Oh.
• 10:23
  Please please. I listened to the whole thing.
• 10:26
  It was. Like.
• 10:27
  I listened to it twice. I'll bet you did.
• 10:30
  Just in between listening to all the Ian Levine interviews with
• 10:33
  that fella from Oh God, what's his name?
• 10:36
  Grego. But have you ever seen a UFO?
• 10:43
  The thing is with those sort of this is the worst season of
• 10:45
  Doctor Whoever videos is that you can make an argument, but
• 10:50
  like when you start pulling apart every issue that
• 10:52
  something's had, you can make that argument for literally any
• 10:56
  season of Doctor Who. This is what I say reading Jr.
• 11:01
  Southall's unpublished book. You've got a.
• 11:05
  Copy of that yeah, them comments.
• 11:08
  The faceless ones. Yeah, the comments could
• 11:10
  actually apply to any point or any version of Doctor Who.
• 11:14
  That's what was mad. I felt like I was reading this
• 11:16
  from the most current era, but it's actually just the same shit
• 11:20
  from 10 years ago. I.
• 11:21
  Flicked. For those example.
• 11:23
  Like, insane opinions he pulled together in that book.
• 11:26
  And I was like, I mean, he's the madman for putting that
• 11:29
  together. Yeah, scroll through all of that
• 11:32
  bullshit to put the most pertinent points across.
• 11:35
  It's fascinating because we've all done it.
• 11:37
  We've all gone through that journey.
• 11:39
  What? Was your one again You've read
• 11:41
  it out and was it? Yeah, the hell.
• 11:43
  Ben. Yeah, like series.
• 11:45
  Well I thought series 9 was my waffle and then season 11 came
• 11:48
  along to fucking kick me off a Cliff.
• 11:50
  And Dylan's currently experiencing his with the RTD 2
• 11:54
  era. Don't.
• 11:54
  Know what you mean? My opinion is completely valid
• 11:57
  and I'm completely right. Gotta say that that that
• 12:00
  children knee clip looked very uninspired.
• 12:03
  Why was it so bright? I felt as if we were back on
• 12:06
  Warriors as a Deep again. Why was it?
• 12:08
  Why did it just fill me with absolutely nothing?
• 12:11
  Why? Did it?
• 12:12
  Was that written by Steven Moffett?
• 12:14
  That's why. Well, since though I.
• 12:16
  Feel like he was asleep when he was delivering my voice.
• 12:21
  How did the dinosaur look better 10 years ago, anyway?
• 12:24
  Excuse me, can you have a look at this fella?
• 12:26
  Doesn't he look like Richard Franklin?
• 12:28
  Well, now he's more handsome. Look at his cheekbones and look
• 12:31
  at his jawline. My God, what a man.
• 12:34
  When he first appeared, I thought, oh, it's Richard
• 12:36
  Franklin. I don't remember this.
• 12:39
  Did he say pity? She's quite a Dolly at any
• 12:43
  point. We've just covered has.
• 12:46
  Anyone ever been as erect as that man?
• 12:49
  We just repeat a mile for TV for Christmas.
• 12:53
  I don't want to spoil it, but we did cover something where Mike
• 12:56
  Yates get get strangled by sentient tinsel.
• 13:01
  Was it? Was it the first trip to car
• 13:03
  fail by any chance? It was not.
• 13:05
  It was not. It's more more bat shit than
• 13:08
  that. The time lash come to life,
• 13:11
  that's hard to return. Yeah, sorry I was so busy
• 13:13
  talking to you. People.
• 13:14
  Not yet, but no. No.
• 13:15
  I stopped looking at the screen. I was like, keys are Marrand us
• 13:18
  What? Oh again, look at look at
• 13:22
  Jacqueline Hill doing her best. Yes, I understand acting to all
• 13:26
  the exposition that the man is selling him now.
• 13:29
  What I like about Terry Nation is he just has a very clear
• 13:32
  symplied there every time for the 25 minutes.
• 13:35
  This one is just just flipping the innocent until proven
• 13:38
  guilty. Guilty until proven innocent.
• 13:41
  sci-fi done bish bash boss. And it does sound just sound
• 13:45
  lazy. It can sound lazy, but it's not.
• 13:47
  It's just simple and easy to watch and enjoyable to watch.
• 13:51
  But is it good as a palate cleanser between more
• 13:55
  substantial stories, or should it all be like this?
• 13:59
  I think the best thing about Dog 2 is the variety, isn't it?
• 14:02
  That Yeah. This is a good palate cleanser.
• 14:05
  Yeah. I've never thought about it like
• 14:06
  that, but it is. Did you, did you hear Rob
• 14:08
  Sheaman make that argument for Black Orchid being a palate
• 14:12
  hunter? Yeah.
• 14:13
  Oh, shit. Yeah.
• 14:16
  That was a brilliant argument. And I do think you need them.
• 14:19
  Russell T Davis used to do it. He'd have them two lower key
• 14:22
  ones. Hang on.
• 14:24
  Oh my God, before the legend, it's William Hartnell.
• 14:30
  He's electric, isn't he? I am the man for this, although
• 14:37
  they've lost. About 3 million viewers between
• 14:38
  the two episodes. Two and a half million, if that.
• 14:41
  This was today. Fucking everybody be losing
• 14:43
  their shit about. Are they back for episode 6 by
• 14:45
  any chance? They probably are, yeah.
• 14:47
  Everything. Are we just the doctors back?
• 14:49
  Everyone? TuneIn and the board are back
• 14:51
  this week as well. Oh, look at these hats that
• 14:54
  these men are wearing. Yeah, there's there's something
• 14:57
  very quite Greek Orthodox about them, isn't it?
• 15:00
  Greek Orthodox, I used to have a, you know, as you go into a
• 15:03
  kitchen and you have fingers hanging down from the door.
• 15:07
  When I was younger, that's what they look like.
• 15:08
  Those sort of. Yeah, that actually looks like
• 15:11
  it's made of marble and not like is that, is that just me?
• 15:15
  I actually believe. In Cardiff I'll see before me.
• 15:21
  We should go to a convention, cosplay and those three guys.
• 15:26
  Oh no, I'll go with Altos if you rub me thighs.
• 15:29
  OK all. Right.
• 15:31
  We shouldn't go to a convention. We should just go out just as
• 15:33
  those three guys and see if anyone spots it.
• 15:36
  What I was quite impressed with though, with this fellow who
• 15:39
  asked all the toolkit of the three judges is he isn't playing
• 15:42
  that terrible. Remember that fella in the Ark
• 15:44
  who goes, Oh my people, him. He's not doing that.
• 15:48
  He's he sort of brought it down and doing a bit of naturalism.
• 15:52
  He's got a fantastic name too. His name's Raph Della Tour.
• 15:57
  Is that father of Francis still a tour?
• 16:00
  Oh, maybe it is. Is that, is that your name?
• 16:03
  Yeah. Rafter Latour.
• 16:04
  Can you, can you Google him please?
• 16:06
  That could be a coincidence. Hold the line please.
• 16:10
  Oh, I was talking. To Stella Tour Did you ever
• 16:12
  watch her in Rising Damp? Oh no, you're too young for
• 16:14
  that. Yes, I did, yeah.
• 16:17
  Male man used to watch her eyes and dump.
• 16:19
  Now, Luke, you said earlier on in the commentary that.
• 16:23
  Seal of Russell on. You did say that, and you said
• 16:26
  that you thought these were better than the Gallifrey sets.
• 16:28
  I do tend to agree. Did I say they were better?
• 16:30
  I said they're very. They remind me of the Gallifrey
• 16:33
  sets, and that sort of reminds me of the Gallifrey symbol.
• 16:35
  The whole thing reminds me a bit of Gallifrey.
• 16:38
  It's on every part of the wall. Look how many times that symbols
• 16:41
  on the walls. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:44
  Fun fact, it actually turns up in Revenge of the Cybermen.
• 16:48
  That's right, in solid gold no less.
• 16:55
  Harry's trying to half inch it from the wall.
• 16:57
  We'll go. Come on Sarah, we can make a
• 16:59
  quid out of this. Yeah, this there is, there's
• 17:02
  some, there's a novel or something out there that that
• 17:05
  does connect the two. Something about like Gallifrey
• 17:08
  and going over to colonize Vogue and.
• 17:10
  Yeah, I think it's a missing adventure.
• 17:13
  I can't see any link between RAF and Francis unfortunately.
• 17:17
  RAF, look, can I ask you a question, very serious one now
• 17:23
  that is, you know, when you saw Dylan there researching Ralph de
• 17:27
  Latour on the Zoom call, this was, you know, live action to
• 17:31
  hop the CV researching going on in front of us.
• 17:34
  Were you a little bit hard? I'm always hard when we're doing
• 17:38
  this. That's nice to know.
• 17:44
  Oh my God, we're nearly at the bit where the doctor reenacts
• 17:47
  the whole murder, isn't it? Oh yeah, that is, that is such a
• 17:51
  good bit. And he is loving it.
• 17:53
  Arnell is absolutely he's. Quite right with Jacqueline Hill
• 17:56
  though, isn't he? The saddest thing about doing
• 17:59
  like a common shot it now is that he sort of needs a hair and
• 18:03
  watch him just do is shit. But all I can just say is he's
• 18:07
  great. Avery slipped over and bumped
• 18:11
  his head. He goes or it was murdered.
• 18:13
  Well, I wonder which it was. Can I ask you fellas if you
• 18:17
  would like to see William Hartnell, you know, themed
• 18:21
  Doctor Who going around space? Fun bit of history, personal
• 18:27
  history. When I used to make Doctor Who
• 18:30
  action figure adventures on YouTube and I was like 10 or 11
• 18:34
  and I had quite a lot on the go. So there was like the Doctor Who
• 18:37
  ones and then there was like the scarecrow Johnny Adventures.
• 18:42
  That was just the scarecrow from the family of blood and and he
• 18:46
  sort of lived in a house and it was a bit more like relaxed.
• 18:49
  But then I also did a trial like spin off of Mr. Who
• 18:52
  Investigates. It's David Tennant.
• 18:55
  It's David Tennant. I've not got them anymore.
• 18:57
  I really wish I did. Oh, shame.
• 19:00
  It's a proper shame because I got to about 16 and I was going
• 19:04
  to a party and the idea that anyone at this party might have
• 19:07
  got them all embarrassed me so much that I deleted the YouTube
• 19:11
  account and it is so frustrating.
• 19:14
  Anything was too hot for TV. It's that, yeah, it's.
• 19:18
  True, I had my little baby voice, voice from the doctor and
• 19:21
  well all the characters, but there was like 4 episodes.
• 19:25
  It was Mr. Who investigates. He drove around in a remote
• 19:28
  control red Mini Cooper and would solve, would solve.
• 19:32
  Crazy played by David Burton by any chance?
• 19:35
  So. I would watch William Hartnell
• 19:39
  Investigates as the Doctor, but I'd like him to get it wrong
• 19:42
  every episode. He makes a grand speech as.
• 19:47
  To who the murderer is. And then the real murderer slips
• 19:51
  up like the fella does in this. Accidentally sends a lot of
• 19:54
  people to prison that shouldn't be there.
• 19:56
  That's the worst defence lawyer. And he has to re enact the
• 20:00
  murder scene in every episode, all right.
• 20:04
  Prisoners, though, they get executed.
• 20:07
  Oh shit, well there's a trail of murders then, wherever he's
• 20:11
  investigated. That is a great premise.
• 20:14
  Can you write that please alongside the narrow?
• 20:17
  Partner is having a whale of a time here though, recreating
• 20:20
  this murder. You can definitely feel that
• 20:23
  he's at two weeks off. You can feel it.
• 20:25
  Do you like murder mysteries in Doctor Who?
• 20:27
  Now that's a genre they touch on a lot.
• 20:29
  Obviously. Terror, The Verboys.
• 20:30
  Robots of death. It just, it does depend how it's
• 20:33
  done when Doctor Who so closely starts to go into a genre,
• 20:38
  attempt to sort of not like it because I want it to be Doctor
• 20:42
  Whoey, if that makes sense. So like.
• 20:46
  Ver Voice is a brilliant murder mystery.
• 20:49
  But it's a murder mystery. Based under Siege Monsters and a
• 20:53
  murder mystery. It's why I prefer stuff like
• 20:55
  Hyde to stuff like The Unquiet Death, because Hyde feels more
• 21:02
  Doctor Who. Even though they're both sort of
• 21:04
  like ghost ghost stories sort of thing.
• 21:08
  As soon as it starts to just copy a genre I don't like it as
• 21:11
  much. So did you have trouble with
• 21:13
  Unicorn and the Wasp then? No, because it's so good.
• 21:16
  It's so. Fun, isn't it?
• 21:20
  It's where don't say with the popcorn guy.
• 21:21
  So it was her, was it? It wasn't one of my favourites
• 21:24
  as a kid though, but then I think it was probably because it
• 21:27
  was historical. So go ahead.
• 21:31
  No, please. I was just going to say one of
• 21:33
  the common misconceptions that people trot out as an age-old
• 21:37
  jokers, like with Terror of the Vervoids and the Robots of
• 21:40
  Death. They go, well, the whodunit
• 21:41
  status is compromised by the title, but it's not actually
• 21:44
  about the monsters. It's about the humans in league
• 21:46
  with them that you have to sort of so you know, Tara and Capel
• 21:49
  or whatever the dudes called in Terror of the Vervoids, that
• 21:53
  it's the people behind it where the mystery lies.
• 21:55
  And that's always fun working that out.
• 21:57
  I mean, I'm absolutely convinced in Robots you're supposed to
• 22:00
  figure out from the trousers it's him and the suspenses is
• 22:03
  that we know and the characters don't.
• 22:05
  And in Vervoids I'm still convinced it's fucking Janet.
• 22:08
  I don't think it's Poland at all.
• 22:10
  What is the? Name and the kind.
• 22:11
  Vervoids that. Doland.
• 22:14
  Doland. Yeah.
• 22:15
  And he's in league with Pussy Galore.
• 22:19
  But she isn't. She's totally.
• 22:21
  Innocent. Oh, is she?
• 22:22
  Yeah, I've seen that so many times and I never like remember
• 22:26
  the details of it. What do you think of Carla?
• 22:29
  Oh, as soon as she came up after not seeing Mariners for years
• 22:31
  and years, I was like, I don't trust her.
• 22:34
  I got it. It's.
• 22:34
  Fiona Walker isn't it from a self nemesis?
• 22:36
  All things shall soon be mine. I did not know that.
• 22:42
  Yeah. Oh, Sharp, you knew.
• 22:43
  That I did not know that I was going.
• 22:46
  To say. I don't see classic series
• 22:52
  actors like that. All right, the Booker list still
• 22:56
  tell me everything. Yeah, get.
• 22:57
  Get ready. All right.
• 23:00
  But she's got a very unusual household situation going on.
• 23:05
  Barbara and Susan peeking through the door later on, she's
• 23:08
  getting slapped around, and yet she's still evil.
• 23:12
  It's all very confusing. And this is an adultery plot,
• 23:15
  right? Oh, is it?
• 23:17
  Is she? Not having an affair, that's
• 23:19
  that. That's the part of it and why
• 23:21
  someone's getting murdered. Because of course, as she's a
• 23:24
  woman in the 60s, she couldn't have a motive beyond she wants
• 23:28
  to shag a man. I mean, you don't have a motive
• 23:30
  beyond that. Always tell you anyway.
• 23:39
  She is a great character though. There's a bit later on where
• 23:42
  she's going and as soon as we're out the door she goes.
• 23:47
  I love that bit. To sort of echo what Luke was
• 23:51
  saying earlier, like this episode is probably the least
• 23:54
  visually interesting. So when we're watching it like
• 23:56
  this without the dialogue, like there isn't loads to comment on
• 24:00
  in the way that like it's great when you've got the sound up,
• 24:03
  but the others have got enough just to go look at that bit,
• 24:05
  look at that bit. Yeah, I do think it's the most
• 24:07
  substantial episodes of the whole.
• 24:09
  Yeah, me too. Me too.
• 24:10
  They're the ones that I liked most as a kid as well, even
• 24:13
  though the others probably are more Kitty and.
• 24:15
  He just went to belt, Susan. Yeah, and now they're listening
• 24:20
  to him belt her. They were trying to figure out
• 24:24
  what they could and couldn't do right.
• 24:26
  Yeah, Hissing mind. You don't know come Benjamin
• 24:29
  Varos. Perry's getting a slap and no I.
• 24:31
  I do you think it was just like sort of the doubt of the world
• 24:37
  at the time? Do you know I don't think anyone
• 24:39
  raised an eyebrow. That man.
• 24:41
  Is it Donald Pickering? Yes, Donald Pickering from The
• 24:43
  Faceless Ones. I mainly recognize him because I
• 24:46
  feel like Donald Pickering is one of the actors that Toby Hado
• 24:50
  conventions whenever he shows up on anything.
• 24:52
  Well, and what other story Luke is Donald Pickering in from the
• 24:56
  Sylvester McCoy era? Come on.
• 24:59
  An era you know quite well. Yeah, I'm looking at his face.
• 25:03
  That's not going to help. You.
• 25:04
  He's in the Happiness Patrol. No, he's bias from Time and the
• 25:09
  Ronnie. Of course.
• 25:14
  Oh dear, what a career. This the Faceless 1.
• 25:17
  Of them fucking clue bases. I've seen time in the rally like
• 25:20
  four times. Yes.
• 25:23
  The collaborator with the Ronnie, the one who puts the
• 25:25
  bangles on the brain at the end? No.
• 25:30
  No. I can't forget a single detail
• 25:34
  about the Ronnie. It's not my era.
• 25:37
  What are you talking about? You love that.
• 25:41
  He likes cursor Frederick. The latter end, you know.
• 25:44
  No, I did have a greatest show in the Galaxy.
• 25:48
  I've always been on easy with Greatest Show but I absolutely
• 25:50
  loved it recently. Brilliant.
• 25:52
  Greatest show? It's so much better with the
• 25:54
  extended scenes as well. I actually genuinely fascinated
• 25:58
  to ask this, and I don't mean that with sarcasm.
• 26:03
  Are you more sort of, are you deeper into Heartnell than you
• 26:07
  are into Macaulay? No, I know.
• 26:13
  No, that's to think about that for a second.
• 26:15
  Oh my God, look at him go. No, I know more about McCoy.
• 26:21
  Harnell's ear is just too mysterious, isn't it?
• 26:24
  That that's what keeps you coming back?
• 26:26
  There is. There's always bits to say.
• 26:29
  It's the most alien and it's the most just mysterious because
• 26:33
  even though Charlton got missing episodes, you just like, oh,
• 26:35
  they're all in bases and shit. Whereas Hartnell got missing
• 26:38
  episodes, but it's like, what the hell was going on in them?
• 26:42
  Look at the size of that fucking picture.
• 26:44
  Of the micro game. It's absolutely huge.
• 26:48
  I like all the acting he does with his hands as well.
• 26:50
  I know it's this, the cliche of television, very, very small, so
• 26:53
  you've got to act a little bit, but he's constantly moving his
• 26:55
  hands in this scene. I couldn't take my eyes off him
• 26:59
  watching earlier. He's like Tony Blair, always
• 27:01
  doing something. Yeah, walking around, moving his
• 27:05
  hands, rubbing them like he's. Just eyes.
• 27:07
  Watch his eyes. They're always sort of dotting
• 27:10
  around the room. Absolutely marred for this.
• 27:12
  Just commands the whole screen. You can see why they went for
• 27:16
  him, right by this point in the show.
• 27:20
  I think this may be the tipping point where he sort of takes the
• 27:24
  show, you know? Yeah.
• 27:27
  The first sort of three stories, it's all of them, but he's
• 27:30
  slowly sort of wrestling control.
• 27:33
  But the lads slip up the is is hilarious, right?
• 27:37
  And then he immediately. Gets shot and no one's like we
• 27:40
  should who's who's got a gun and shut the door.
• 27:42
  Let's check who's got the gun. It's not the bit where he goes.
• 27:46
  You couldn't possibly know that because I did.
• 27:49
  Oh, balls. Yeah, that's.
• 27:52
  Happens at a lot of trials, you know I'm.
• 27:54
  Glad we don't quite do stories like that anymore.
• 27:58
  I think we're supposed to be absolutely agonized for Paul
• 28:00
  Carla there that her partner is now dead, but actually she's
• 28:05
  about to kidnap Susan, isn't she?
• 28:08
  So are we a fan of Carla then? Absolutely.
• 28:11
  She could. Kidnap me Do.
• 28:14
  You know what? I'm not actually going to lie,
• 28:16
  but I was shouting out at the end when that cliffhanger went
• 28:19
  Killer. What's a?
• 28:20
  Cliffhanger it is, though. What we're not there yet, but
• 28:23
  do? You hear her sniveling on the
• 28:25
  phone. Hello, I want to speak to
• 28:27
  Barbara Wright. They said they're going to kill
• 28:30
  me. Right.
• 28:31
  We're not having Susan's Thunder every time we do it such.
• 28:35
  A shit she's. Great.
• 28:37
  She's a bitch. They're just on the on the info
• 28:41
  text. They're just telling me about
• 28:42
  Terry Nation's rejected script set in the Indian Mutiny, and I
• 28:47
  have a feeling that might have been a lucky escape.
• 28:49
  They'd give you any details. It's it's.
• 28:51
  Too hot for TV? Set in.
• 28:54
  Set in Delhi. Like, oh.
• 28:58
  Can you imagine, Hartnell? This place is full of.
• 29:01
  I'm not going to say the words. I mean, yeah, let's put it like
• 29:05
  this. Towns of Wenchuiang would no
• 29:07
  longer be that controversial if that story had happened.
• 29:10
  I mean, they're blocking up in the Crusade, don't they?
• 29:12
  They. Are but I can.
• 29:13
  Just seem to get get a pass for some reason but.
• 29:17
  Because it's intellectual and no one understands it.
• 29:20
  Oh, Dylan, will you say the line again, please?
• 29:21
  From the crusade come. On Joanna.
• 29:28
  Now what's occurring here? I've totally lost the plot
• 29:30
  talking to you people. Well, I think, I think the
• 29:34
  doctor was I solved. And then they're like, no, it's
• 29:37
  not solved because we don't really know.
• 29:39
  It's done the theft and now someone's being shot.
• 29:43
  You know what's amazing, right, is that Barbara goes well, we
• 29:47
  better not tell the Doctor and distract him from Ian's case.
• 29:50
  So let's not tell him that Susan's been kidnapped and it's
• 29:53
  been sentenced to death. He didn't give a shit about
• 29:56
  Susan when he left her out in the tundra though, did he?
• 29:58
  No, that's true. And he would have had to go
• 30:00
  through though as well. He would have had to twist his
• 30:02
  watch twice. I mean, do you remember how
• 30:04
  furious he was when she wanted to have a dress made in Episode
• 30:06
  2? If he felt realized that she'd
• 30:09
  gone into trouble again, he would be apoplectic.
• 30:14
  You know, Donald Pickering doesn't look a bit like he's
• 30:16
  half asleep all the time, doesn't he?
• 30:18
  I think he smokes weed. Something about his eyes that
• 30:23
  says like he's not fully in the room.
• 30:24
  Like, yeah. Where he's read the script,
• 30:27
  that's why. How dare you?
• 30:31
  I think this is a nice episode after two like quite childlike
• 30:36
  episodes of just sort of basic adventure.
• 30:39
  This this is almost a palette cleanser in a palette cleanser.
• 30:42
  But as you said, it's the most, it's actually got substance in
• 30:45
  in the words. Well, and the characters have
• 30:47
  relationships that aren't the regulars as well.
• 30:50
  And there's plots. And it's got an actual mystery.
• 30:52
  It's not just like we've got to find this chemical formula.
• 30:55
  It's got there, isn't? Actually, it's the judges.
• 30:58
  It's like watching Law and Order, isn't it?
• 31:01
  It's exactly like that. If Mum and Dad were bored in the
• 31:05
  last couple of episodes, though, they're back in for the
• 31:06
  courtroom. Yeah.
• 31:10
  Oh, here we go, this is the cliffhanger.
• 31:13
  I think this is a brilliant cliffhanger.
• 31:16
  Is it because you care about Susan though?
• 31:19
  Probably, but it's more just of actually sort of what feels like
• 31:22
  basically killed on the phone. Oh, it's actually quite chilly.
• 31:26
  Yay. You know, with this means,
• 31:32
  Barbara, it means someone else was involved.
• 31:34
  When it's only about two suspects, it ain't going to take
• 31:36
  you long. Only nine people in this city.
• 31:39
  I think of the rescue, there was only one suspect in that it took
• 31:42
  them two episodes there. That wasn't really a whodunit,
• 31:46
  was it? The rescue.
• 31:47
  Well, no, because the the you talked about the people on the
• 31:50
  planet, so it could very well have been the two twinks that
• 31:53
  show up at the end. It's a how have done it?
• 31:56
  How have done it? Yeah, nice.
• 31:59
  And this is, and this is will you get on a fucking killer this
• 32:02
  cliffhanger. They're going to kill.
• 32:05
  Me but you can look You can rely on Jacqueline Hill to hold a
• 32:09
  pose for five seconds while the. Time, maybe that's what's good.
• 32:12
  You're not getting the final shot isn't season, so you can't
• 32:15
  see what's happening to it. I think that's why it's quite,
• 32:18
  quite scary. I'm just going to see now the
• 32:20
  fellas named de Latour coming up.
• 32:22
  Oh, there he is, Rafter Latour. What do you think?
• 32:25
  I'm a fucking. Liar, do you?
• 32:28
  I would never question your research, all right.
• 32:31
  Excellent. Well, because Richard Bignell
• 32:34
  did all my research on me. I don't want to question your
• 32:39
  research every time I had to cover BVS on hamster.
• 32:42
  I use your book all right. There we go.
• 32:45
  That was Charles used to a small plug there.
• 32:47
  I wrote a book once. It's called Doctor Who.
• 32:49
  No it's not. It's called Downtime.
• 32:50
  Last year's Doctor Who's about spin offs.
• 32:52
  Go buy it. Thanks it.
• 32:53
  Is fabulous, full of gossip and and trivia points, although he's
• 32:58
  forgotten most of them so he has to read them when he does the
• 33:00
  commentaries on them. Very true.
• 33:02
  Why did we enjoy that, lads? Wonderful.
• 33:05
  Brill. Well, we'll move on to the next
• 33:07
  one and we'll cut it.