Latest / The BIG Home Ed Conversations | Home Education / Overstimulated...and understimulated.

Transcript

Overstimulated...and understimulated. · The BIG Home Ed Conversations | Home Education

0:12
Hello everybody, welcome to the big home Med conversations.
0:15
You are here with myself. So that's Kelly Rigg.
0:18
I'm a home Med Mama of two and the founder of off Roading
0:20
motherhood. I'm a qualified mindset coach
0:23
and I've got a real passion for working with home Med families
0:25
and neurodivergent families as well as they kind of navigate,
0:28
navigate sort of the transition to home education and kind of
0:31
obviously those early months or years when it is tricky.
0:36
And that's kind of where my original passion for starting
0:38
this podcast came from. It's just this idea that it's
0:41
actually really hard sometimes to get yourself into the right
0:43
heads, headspace, right mindset as you start home education.
0:46
So I was sat having a coffee with my wonderful friend Ashley,
0:50
Sir Ashley Venerio, who's my Co host.
0:53
She's also a fellow home Med mum of three and an ex primary
0:55
teacher. And we found ourselves always
0:57
having such incredibly deep conversations around her dining
1:02
room tables, typically with a cup of coffee in hand.
1:04
And ultimately we just thought that the conversations we were
1:07
having were lifting each other up.
1:09
We were holding each other accountable, we were helping
1:11
each other to really overcome various challenging bits that we
1:14
were facing. And we just sort of found
1:16
ourselves thinking we should Co host and do this as a podcast
1:19
together because I think it's always well, fun when you're
1:21
listening to two people chatting.
1:22
So I thought you guys would enjoy that too.
1:25
So let's basically go and make yourself a coffee, pull up a
1:28
chair, come join us at the table.
1:30
And we are going to be digging into today's conversation, which
1:32
is going to essentially be all about sort of our sensory
1:36
experience. Now, whether you are
1:39
neurodivergent or not. So obviously I have got ADHD, my
1:42
children are diagnosed or somewhat diagnosed autistic ADHD
1:46
themselves kind of on the, on the progress bar of that one.
1:50
And essentially, we have obviously therefore spent the
1:53
past few years really digging into sensory experience and how
1:57
much it can actually affect our patients, our concentration, our
2:00
ability to do the things that we need to get done, and eventually
2:04
our our actual harmony of our family as well.
2:07
And I think whether you're neurodivergent or not, whether
2:09
you relate to it a little and you're kind of figuring this
2:11
stuff out or not, this is going to be really relevant to you
2:13
because actually all of us experience levels of overwhelm,
2:16
underwhelm, boredom, loneliness, stress, irritation with noise,
2:21
whatever it might be. So I think we just want to get
2:23
into that a little bit and actually explain how if we work
2:27
on actually recognising it, mastering it a little bit,
2:30
actually being kind to ourselves a little bit more than things
2:32
start to actually feel a lot better.
2:35
But obviously, first and foremost, we'll get into our
2:38
gratitude, talk a little bit about our our life this week and
2:41
just let you guys know kind of what's coming up and stuff like
2:44
that. So Ashley, do you want to go
2:47
first give you a chance to get a word in edgeways?
2:49
I always feel like I talk for ages at the start of these.
2:51
No worries. How has your week been?
2:55
Yeah, it was good. We're we're kind of in this
2:57
period leading up to some travel that's going to take us away
3:01
from the house for for a couple months, kind of a sporadic back
3:05
and forth, but largely we'll be traveling.
3:07
And so it's this time period now where I'm trying to balance like
3:12
finishing up some school stuff while also preparing the house
3:15
and preparing the suitcases and, but still doing the activities
3:21
and all of that. So it's, it's sort of chaotic.
3:23
In fact, I'm at the point where I need, I need my list to come
3:26
together so I don't miss out on anything.
3:28
And I was just really thankful for the flexibility of this life
3:33
because I wanted to take advantage of this nice weather.
3:37
I know it. I know it's about to change on
3:39
us. And I found ourselves with no
3:45
items on the schedule yesterday, and that doesn't happen often.
3:50
And while I had a ton of stuff I could have been doing here, I
3:53
said, let's just go to the beach, you know?
3:56
And so we made the decision like pretty early, like shockingly
4:00
early at like 8830, which gave us enough time to pull the stuff
4:04
out of the shed and find the beach towels and the chair, all
4:09
of that stop at the grocery store, get some food and head
4:12
down. And so that was really nice.
4:14
We were there for a little over 5 hours.
4:17
And usually when we go, we go with other people.
4:19
So it's usually kind of a group home Ed day out.
4:22
And this was not that. It was definitely very family.
4:25
It was just us. And it can always lead to like,
4:28
it's a hit or miss thing, right? It could be great.
4:30
And it could also be like just tons of bickering.
4:32
And then I'm like, why did we drive an hour and 20 minutes for
4:35
this and pay £14.00 for parking, which by the way, I actually
4:41
like challenged because I was thinking, no, it's still 7 lbs
4:46
whatever, cuz it's April. No, no, it's May.
4:49
And I was like the price double s in May.
4:52
So I was like, oh OK, it's fine, it's totally fine.
4:56
Yeah. And because it was last minute,
4:57
we didn't get the discount for parking the day before, so it's
5:00
fine. It ends up being wonderful,
5:02
which was great. The girls had a really good time
5:04
together. They played so much I actually
5:08
got to read a book, which never happens.
5:10
I always have one with me, but usually it's I'm full on
5:13
watching them, especially if I'm alone because you can't
5:17
obviously you're need to keep track of them.
5:20
But they were playing and digging holes right next to my
5:24
chair for a lot of the day. So I got to read and that was
5:28
really nice. And it was just, you know,
5:30
beautiful weather. So I feel like in England you
5:32
got to take advantage when it's there.
5:34
So that that was kind of a very last minute outing.
5:36
And I think when we were driving home, I was like, this is the
5:38
best day of my life. And it's so funny because one of
5:42
her friends keeps saying that. And so I think she's like heard
5:45
it and adopted it, but I'm happy to hear it so.
5:48
That's lovely. I think it's so sweet when we
5:51
can't find ourselves having these moments with our kids and
5:53
I I do actually find sometimes if I take them out by myself, I
5:56
always kind of forget that actually out just us to
5:59
somewhere. Typically we'll end up with this
6:01
actually having quite an engaged nice day.
6:05
We'll be chatting back and forth.
6:06
They'll be quite like friendly with me and all the rest of it
6:09
and I think it really it does help me to kind of really go
6:12
yes, you you must do this more often like this actually is
6:14
really, really lovely. Spend that proper quality time
6:16
with them. And I think even just going with
6:19
my son to he went to flow zone, which you know what I am going
6:22
to name drop because it was absolutely awesome.
6:24
It's SES water offer these free trips if you, if you're, if
6:29
you're local enough to organise one, get in touch with them and
6:31
organise it because it was well beyond the realms of what I
6:34
expected it to be. It was such a great day out,
6:37
getting to see everything behind the scenes, got to go through
6:39
the whole water treatment works, see the reservoirs, see the we
6:42
went to go underneath the reservoir.
6:44
Like, my goodness, they really pulled out all the stops.
6:46
It's such a great day and the kids had a great time.
6:48
But I think it was lovely to spend that time with my son in
6:51
the car all the way there and on the way back because my youngest
6:53
couldn't come and she just wasn't old enough.
6:55
And it was just, yeah, really lovely to spend that quality
6:57
time with him. I think so, yeah.
6:58
It's nice, isn't it? But I think my, my main
7:01
gratitude this week, it's actually quite interesting
7:04
because we've had a heck of a week.
7:05
We've had some illness, like severe illness in the family
7:08
that's suddenly kind of thrown our week off a little bit.
7:10
And we've had some like these up, down, up, down, like filter
7:13
this week. And my gratitude actually lies
7:15
in my mindset to some, to some degree.
7:18
I stood there outside looking at a double rainbow that came after
7:22
a massive thunderstorm that rained off my desperate urge for
7:24
a BBQ yesterday, literally on 4 hours sleep from a terrible
7:28
night the night before. And I'd gone all the way up to
7:32
B&Q to get the gas replaced to barbecue.
7:35
And on the way back, the heavens opened and I was literally just
7:37
was like watching the rain being like, of course, of course it's
7:40
going to rain now. And I caught the mindset.
7:42
So I, I caught this kind of like, well, of course the like
7:45
lovely thing that I wanted to do is going to get destroyed.
7:48
Like, that's just the way it goes, isn't it?
7:50
And I was like, oh, and I love it when I catch these thoughts
7:53
as they run through your head because actually it's catching
7:55
those things and going, well, no, it's fine.
7:59
Like you'll just have a BBQ tomorrow instead.
8:01
Like this probably just means it's like it was forecast to be
8:03
a bit colder this weekend. This actually probably means
8:05
it's going to be nicer. Like it's going to clear the
8:07
rain out of the sky and freshen things up and we'll have a
8:10
really nice weekend. Like, and I had this sort of
8:13
moment. I found myself putting this
8:15
ridiculous micro poem, just like everything's going to be all
8:18
right until it isn't until it is again.
8:21
Like it just reminded myself in that moment that I actually have
8:24
got this mindset available to me right now to not sit there and
8:29
list all the bad stuff that's happened this week, but to
8:31
recognise that alongside the bad came some good and that
8:35
ultimately nothing is ever all bad or all good.
8:38
And we do have really tough times in our lives sometimes
8:41
that can be a day, a week, a month, a minute.
8:43
But there is almost always something good happening too.
8:48
And that kind of action of looking for the good,
8:51
recognising what there is to be grateful for, is so important to
8:55
me right now because it's pretty much the only thing that keeps
8:57
me, keeps me going, is recognising that actually
9:00
there's quite often amazing stuff happening right alongside
9:04
it. Yeah, it's so true.
9:07
But yeah, so this week it kind of leads us really nicely on, to
9:11
be honest, into this kind of concept of sort of sensory
9:14
underwhelm, overwhelm, sensory seeking, all the rest of it.
9:18
So I'll explain briefly from kind of an autistic ADHD
9:21
perspective why this has become so important to our family.
9:25
And it could well be something which you out there are thinking
9:28
about considering as well. Because so many of us are
9:30
obviously realising as women in our 30s and 40s that actually
9:34
what I am experiencing be ADHD, like actually have I been living
9:38
with this my entire life and actually found it really hard.
9:40
And when I had children, I experienced a huge amount of
9:45
sensory overwhelm. I was basically called a control
9:48
freak by the health visitor. Very lovely one at that,
9:50
obviously with my like 2 week old baby.
9:53
Because the kind of the crash of hormones really, really, really
9:56
messed up my, my mental health for a short while there.
9:59
It really scared me. I honestly was not expecting it
10:01
to be as severe as it was baby Blues.
10:04
I wanted to punch the person who came up with that term because
10:06
baby Blues is like, they're just a bit sad.
10:09
You know, I thought I was dying. Like it was not far at all.
10:12
Like it's very scary. And the health institute
10:14
basically said to me that I need to let it go, that my life has
10:17
changed. I've had a baby, my whole world
10:18
is going to be different now. And that was really scary to me
10:21
because actually at the time, I had no idea that I had ADHD.
10:24
Obviously there's a lot of crossover between autism and
10:27
ADHD. We have some some quite similar
10:29
symptoms of it. And I suspect that there's a
10:32
part of me that thinks that I could also be autistic, But
10:35
essentially that for me means that my routines, my structures,
10:40
what I'm expecting in my day, my need for sleep, my need for
10:43
things to be just so is actually quite high.
10:46
And as an undiagnosed neo divergent person, we spend to
10:50
spend most of our lives basically being told that you
10:53
just have to suck it up. Like you're not comfortable.
10:56
Like you need a wee tough wait until the end of the meeting.
10:59
Like if you're hungry or tough, like it's only 11:00, you've got
11:02
to wait until one when your lunch break is like, there's so
11:06
much that you're told to just ignore your bodily sensations
11:09
and push on through. And that actually anything less
11:11
than that is considered lazy or even rude.
11:15
And I think one of the things about home education in general
11:18
that's kind of really kind of opened my eyes to this is this
11:21
kind of concept of being quite intuitive.
11:23
We allow our children typically a lot more freedoms as home
11:26
educators than we would have had as children.
11:29
They can eat, drink, sit, run, play, pick up a book, play a
11:34
game pretty much whenever they want.
11:36
And most of us will follow a fairly flexible schedule.
11:39
It may well have some areas of our day that are kind of
11:41
compressed into routines and structure.
11:43
But I know that as a mother, for a long time I was not affording
11:47
the same grace to myself as I was to my children.
11:50
I wasn't recognising that I too also had needs and that I didn't
11:53
have to push on through. And this is something I talk to
11:55
parents about an awful lot when I'm working with them as a coach
11:58
and supporting them anyway, because it's one of the main
12:00
kind of cruxes of it is this concept that actually we have
12:04
experiences too. And that actually pushing on
12:07
through and ignoring them isn't actually the best way to be and
12:11
will quite often lead to burnouts and misery relationship
12:16
like destruction with our kids or with our families and a wider
12:21
kind of relationships as well. But it has a massive knock on
12:23
effect to how we experience our lives and how harmonious our
12:26
days become. But yeah, I'm just, I'm finding
12:28
myself speaking like, does this, does this resonate with you,
12:30
Ashley? Do you find that you're kind of
12:33
feeling like that actually having kids might have might
12:35
have changed a lot so for your day-to-day experience?
12:39
Well, yeah, I mean, I think obviously, yes, 100%.
12:42
And I think that like what you were saying, everyone sort of
12:45
experiences some degree of this, whether it's I didn't really
12:50
feel like I had the baby Blues or like that sort of postpartum
12:54
depression that a lot of women get.
12:57
But I definitely, and I feel like at the time, this wasn't as
13:00
widely talked about, but I definitely became more anxious.
13:04
So that postpartum anxiety that that can happen.
13:08
And it's so interesting to read more about that now.
13:12
And it probably was kind of lumped in with the postpartum
13:16
depression, but I, yeah, just definitely like feeling a lot
13:22
more unsettled, I guess. And it's, I think each
13:25
subsequent child I felt it to a greater degree.
13:28
Like, whereas after the first kid, I sort of like after a few
13:31
months, it definitely was like, Oh yeah, we're good.
13:33
And then with the second one, it was a little longer.
13:35
And I feel like with the third one and maybe just life in
13:37
general with COVID and all of this, it just never went away
13:41
because that going through COVID with very young children, I
13:44
mean, a new baby, you're just constantly worried about
13:48
everything that comes into your house.
13:49
Are we going to get sick? What's going to happen to the
13:51
kids like all this? So I think all of that sort of
13:54
compounded into a larger impact. But all of that to say that I
13:59
think we all sort of realize our limits once you have kids
14:04
because you never are in the position to be so constantly
14:09
bothered, tapped, stimulated until you have a child that
14:13
doesn't leave your side. So especially for those of us
14:17
who are home with our kids all the time, whether it's just
14:21
until they go to preschool or maybe they're always in some
14:25
kind of childcare. So it's a little bit different.
14:27
But for those of us who who don't have a childcare option
14:30
like that, it's pretty full on. And that's when you really start
14:33
to realize like, you know, you see all the memes of like the
14:36
mom in the bathroom and the kids sticking their fingers on there
14:38
to the door, you know, to like be like, I'm, I'm.
14:42
If somebody ever finds themselves getting to a point in
14:44
their life where the door can be closed, that'd be great.
14:47
I now even have a tiny dog that wants to get on my lap when I go
14:50
for a pee. I'm just like, seriously, you're
14:51
like a toddler, why are you in here now too?
14:53
Exactly. And I think I sent a picture the
14:55
other day. I was like, I was trying to take
14:59
a bath and like all three are coming in.
15:02
And my youngest even like pushed her sleeve up and was like
15:05
having her hand in the water. She's like, I think I want to
15:08
come in with you. And I was like, no, no, this is
15:10
meant to be relaxing. Anyway, if you if you're not,
15:14
could go find something else to do, like there's a water tray
15:17
outside, go play with that one. So it's just, it's so funny and
15:21
I, I, I even remember like reading A blog post one time
15:28
about a woman who was about to have her third child and she was
15:32
talking about how much she was enjoying her showers when she
15:36
was like 9 months pregnant because her older two were at
15:39
the point where she could go take a shower and they would be
15:42
OK. And she goes, I know that in a
15:45
week's time when I have this baby that I'm going to have a
15:49
little baby bouncer next to me in the shower, you know, like
15:52
waiting just outside the door. And so these moments of peace
15:55
are about to go away. And so I think that finding
15:58
realizing your limits. So I know I get a lot more
16:02
irritable in the evening and definitely I am less patient in
16:06
the evening. So I try very hard to do what I
16:10
can throughout the day to limit those like little bickerings in
16:14
the evening because they are like, I just cannot be.
16:16
But I'm like, I just get taken out out of here.
16:18
I don't want to listen to it. I can't be bothered.
16:20
Like you're fighting over a marker.
16:22
And I know that's a signal. The larger thing.
16:24
I absolutely get that. But like in the moment, it's
16:27
like I'm just trying to cook dinner and you can figure this
16:29
out on your own. You don't need me to help
16:31
mediate the marker fight of 2025.
16:36
I think I read once and I don't remember who said this.
16:41
I'm so bummed that I don't remember.
16:43
But it was the homeschool mom. And she just said that she
16:46
noticed that there's like these rhythms throughout the day.
16:50
And she called them like, expanding and contracting.
16:54
And so she would say that like, I can tell when we're all
16:57
together in the room, you know, whether we're, you know, doing
16:59
like a group lesson or something that we get to the point where
17:04
we, we've contracted too much and it, the little fights start.
17:08
And so now we need to expand. So we need to either everyone
17:11
goes and plays in their room alone or ever we go outside.
17:13
So just this dynamic of the family, like expanding and
17:16
contracting. And like similarly, like they'll
17:19
be outside running around or they'll be in their rooms
17:22
reading a book or something. And then she realizes, OK, now
17:25
everyone's starting to come bother me.
17:27
So we need to come back together for lunch and read a book at the
17:30
lunch table or something. And so she kind of found this
17:33
like, rhythm of expansion and contraction.
17:35
And I'd never thought of it that way.
17:38
And when I started looking at when these sort of challenging,
17:42
triggering, annoying moments would come and I would feel
17:45
really like I just wanted to walk out of the room, that it
17:48
was usually related to this idea of that expansion and
17:51
contraction. And so I do try to think of that
17:55
as we were going through stuff, even like yesterday at the
17:57
beach, you know, there were moments of little fights.
18:00
And I'm like, OK, let's go run around or let's get some time in
18:05
the water, whatever it might be, just to kind of pull away from
18:07
our little nucleus. Yeah, and I think like the key
18:11
to that kind of like the from a sensory perspective, when we're
18:15
in a group or we're we're all concentrating or whatever, then
18:19
you've got an element of like capacity for focus.
18:21
Our brains are getting tired. Maybe the noise and the chat is
18:24
too much. Maybe they, we're getting hungry
18:27
or we're getting thirsty or we're our bodies feeling
18:29
restless or we need to go to the toilet or naturally we, the
18:34
subtleties of some of these things are so tricky sometimes.
18:36
And I think children tend to be a lot more intuitive.
18:39
They tend to actually recognise their needs a lot quicker than
18:43
we do. So like they'll be like, I need
18:44
a snack and you're like, can we just wait and finish getting
18:46
this done? Like I need a drink and like I
18:49
need to go for Williams. Like can we just do this?
18:53
It's going to take 15 minutes. Then we can get on with our
18:55
lives. Please stop running away.
18:57
And I was finding myself getting super frustrated with these kind
19:00
of moments when we're trying to come together.
19:01
I was trying to like initiate, like you've all been off doing
19:04
your own thing for ages. Let's try and bring it back
19:05
together. Let's get on with the next
19:07
thing. And I was finding myself finding
19:08
it quite hard. And it was only in working with
19:11
a, a fellow client of mine who's got no divergent kids.
19:14
And we were talking about this experience of like the
19:17
frustration we can feel when we've got like, we've been busy
19:19
working, we've finished doing that bit.
19:21
Now we're going to kind of come together, we're going to have
19:23
some lunch. We need to get a bit of sort of
19:24
schooly stuff done. And they're just like totally
19:27
not in the right headspace because maybe they've been
19:30
watching screens or something whilst you've been working or
19:31
whatever the case may be. And ultimately we want them to
19:34
shift and transition into something else and we can't.
19:36
I kind of realised through coaching her through it that
19:38
actually there's this element of we can either spend an hour
19:41
fighting all of these physical sensations that are going on
19:44
their bodies that they're clearly needing to have met or
19:47
we and obviously then and also teaching them how we were
19:51
taught. Hold it in like you're in a
19:53
meeting. You can't pee right now, you
19:55
can't eat right now, you can't actually get up and walk away
19:57
right now. You've got to stick this out and
19:58
you've just got to stay focused and look like you're paying
20:00
attention even though you're desperately tired and all the
20:02
rest of it. And yes, to some degree as an
20:05
adult, we will have to tamp it down sometimes to get through a
20:08
really important moments. Of course we will.
20:10
But as if you can kind of approach pretty much everything
20:15
in life with the idea of, OK, who has a need that needs
20:18
meeting? Let's we'll go to the toilet.
20:20
Let's grab a snack. Let's have a drink.
20:23
So we need to do some star jumps, wiggle breaks, play a bit
20:25
of Simon Says, have a bit of fun moving our bodies.
20:27
OK, good. Are we ready?
20:29
Everyone feeling like we can sit and do some concentrating for 15
20:31
minutes now, Like actually if you spend that kind of 1015
20:34
minutes, sometimes longer or trying to get everybody's needs
20:37
met, then actually you're approaching that transition then
20:40
into a moment when you need their focus and concentration.
20:44
With children who have got their full, like they are now at full
20:48
capacity. And I kind of almost see it like
20:50
filling up that hunger bar, I guess in a game.
20:52
It's like if you can get all of the bits needed there, then they
20:55
should be able to then do the tasks that they're being asked
20:58
to do. Obviously, again, neuro
21:01
diversion family. So not always, but for the most
21:03
part now myself and my husband will have these moments when the
21:07
kids are being super tactile and my, my son especially will,
21:10
well, actually they both do this to be fair, but they will
21:12
suddenly want to climb all over you or wrestle with you or
21:15
tickle you or whatever. You're like, no, not right now.
21:17
Like I don't want this on me. But actually recognising that
21:20
they are seeking A tactile need right now.
21:22
So they are actually feeling under stimulated and they're
21:25
looking for a way to stimulate themselves.
21:27
And so if you can recognise they're looking for a way to
21:29
stimulate themselves, you can either suggest an activity they
21:32
could do instead that will also give them that same level of
21:35
stimulation, or you can recognise that actually 5
21:38
minutes of wrestling right now will get him through that
21:42
feeling and calm on the other side of it.
21:44
So then we can actually go ahead and do what I actually would
21:46
like to be doing with him right now, and vice versa.
21:49
I can. I noticed when I got back from
21:51
Flowzone on Thursday, it had been out all day.
21:54
It was a long drive. I got stuck in traffic on the
21:56
way home. It was my own fault.
21:57
I didn't use the proper Google SAT Navy thing.
22:01
I was using the cars 1 and it didn't spot the traffic coming
22:03
up. I should have gotten off the
22:04
junction before it was very annoyed about I did half an hour
22:07
to my journey which is very very annoying.
22:08
So by the time I got home, I had half an hour until I had to take
22:11
them to swimming. And I was just like, please, I
22:15
just wanted to sit for an hour and have a cup of coffee and
22:17
relax. And now we're not going to get
22:18
my decompression time from being out in the sun and being busy
22:21
and learning a lot and having a great day.
22:23
But just like, needed a minute. And I got in and my youngest was
22:26
climbing all over me. She'd missed me.
22:28
She wanted cuddles and snuggles. And when she touched my face and
22:30
I lost my temper with her and I caught it, the second my temper
22:34
suddenly went, I was like, OK, I'm really sorry.
22:38
This is what's going on for me right now.
22:39
Like I am just feeling really overstimulated.
22:43
And I actually just really needed 20 minutes of nothing.
22:46
And so instead of sitting in a space where everyone could get
22:48
to me, I took my coffee, I went upstairs, I closed the door in
22:52
my bedroom and I just took proper 20 minutes to actually
22:56
completely switch off and then got myself together.
22:59
And when I took them to swimming and was able to do that calm and
23:04
collected and actually a couple of times that evening, I felt
23:06
myself starting to get irritable and was able to just remind them
23:12
that I've had a really long day, that I've been out of the house
23:15
since 7:30 this morning and it's now 6:30 at night and I am
23:19
shattered. So winding me up right now, it's
23:23
asking a lot of me is just not a good idea.
23:26
And I think sometimes as parents, we can feel like it's
23:28
our responsibility to just meet our kids needs and that we
23:32
should be able to suck it up, push it aside.
23:36
If they need a cuddle, they need a cuddle.
23:37
And of course, I gave her a cuddle.
23:39
Like I wasn't going to literally shove away and say, just get
23:41
away from me. I can't be near you for the next
23:42
three hours. Like I gave her a cuddle and
23:44
then I was like, right, I'm really sorry, sweetheart, I know
23:46
you've missed me. I've really missed you too.
23:49
We're going to have to manage this a bit this evening.
23:51
Like little cuddle. Give me some space.
23:54
We'll have another little cuddle in a minute.
23:55
But just like don't just like she likes to touch my face, but
23:59
like she like hands, fingers in my eyeballs and my, my nose and
24:03
like all over my cheeks. I'm just like, I don't like it.
24:05
And I, this is a massive sensory issue for me.
24:07
Stuff touching my face. I don't like it, like water
24:10
splashing, whatever, just don't like it at all.
24:13
And so I'm just trying to teach them that actually this is a
24:15
limit of mine. And I'm happy to give you a
24:17
cuddle, but if you're squirming around and climbing all over me
24:20
and touching me all over the face, I'm I'm going to want you
24:22
to get off. That is going to be a hard limit
24:24
for me. And I personally don't think
24:27
it's a bad thing. I think our children should
24:30
understand that we have got a capacity for these things and
24:34
that we have a limit because actually the people out in the
24:36
real world around us will have their limits and they will not
24:39
want a child doing certain things to them.
24:42
And we have got to teach them to respect people's boundaries.
24:44
And so I think it's, it's OK for us to recognise these things,
24:48
but I think sometimes we feel like I feel guilty for for doing
24:52
that, for actually not having the patience for it or not
24:55
wanting to listen to that right now or asking them to shush or
24:58
to stop doing a really noisy activity even though they're
25:00
happy. Like I always get upset with
25:02
myself sometimes for the concept of my children laughing and
25:06
playing loudly annoys me. Sometimes it riles me and as, as
25:13
I say, understanding it from a sensory perspective and
25:16
understand that it's just for me, it's clearly triggering
25:19
something. I try and recognise that
25:21
actually I'm just not enjoying the noise and that I can't
25:26
tolerate that noise level. So I have then got options.
25:28
I could put some ear plugs in, some headphones on.
25:31
I could move to another part of the house.
25:32
I could ask them to move to another part of the house.
25:34
Like we've sectioned off our kitchen, dining room level of
25:38
our house. It's a bit strange house.
25:39
It's kind of stacked over various levels.
25:41
And so it's like that is a quiet zone.
25:42
There is no noisy play allowed on that level.
25:45
Like if they want to be noisy, it goes downstairs or upstairs
25:48
or outside, like just not in that little area.
25:52
And they don't always honour it and they have to be reminded
25:54
often. But that is something which that
25:56
is a boundary. And hopefully eventually they
25:58
will, they will come to learn that and understand it and
26:00
respect it. Because actually I need that.
26:02
I can't have crazy noise around me all the time.
26:04
I can't think, I just can't focus.
26:06
And so, yeah, I think that all of these things, it's kind of
26:10
hopefully just asking you right now out there listening to us to
26:13
really be thinking about, OK, what are my pinch points?
26:16
What are the bits that really bother me?
26:18
When do I tend to lose my temper?
26:19
When do I tend to feel really irritable in my day or feel
26:23
touched out or like what kinds of things bother me?
26:26
And as I say, it has, in my opinion, this does have a lot to
26:29
do with no divergent because of course we tend to experience
26:31
sensory things on a more extreme scale, like one way or the
26:34
other. But actually, I believe that
26:35
every single person on the planet has got their limits in
26:38
certain capacities. And some of that will be because
26:40
of your own personal limits and your experiences, and some of it
26:44
will be because it's been trained into you too.
26:46
So this is the other element that's it's an element of
26:48
deschooling in a way, because I know that my dad, for example,
26:53
fidgeting at the table, sitting down and staying there for the
26:56
entire meal, not getting up and going anywhere.
26:59
Like there's certain elements of behaviours that are expected of
27:03
us and our children that we're kind of overcoming.
27:06
And yeah, so there's that as well.
27:08
Yeah, I think it's like in speaking about like kind of the
27:11
deschooling and like how we grew up, it was very much like a
27:15
there was the mentality. I know you're a bit younger than
27:17
me, but the grandparents when I was a kid, we're very much like
27:21
a we want to, we want to see them, but we don't want to hear
27:24
them, the grandchildren, right. So being noisy at dinner, being
27:28
noisy in a bedroom, like it didn't matter if they could hear
27:32
us. We were wrong, you know.
27:35
And I think that was just, it's a generational thing, of course,
27:38
but it is hard to then kind of take away from that that
27:42
children are actually whole beings.
27:44
They're not like in the midst. I mean, they are of course,
27:48
growing up, but they are actually just where they're
27:49
supposed to be at that time. And that they deserve just that
27:53
same amount of respect and understanding as you would give
27:57
to an adult. Like there's no reason to treat
27:59
them as if they're like a work in progress or something.
28:04
And so I think that it is just a balance like you were saying, of
28:11
recognizing your needs, setting limits around them and that
28:15
that's OK. And I send my kids, we have a
28:17
loft area and on the 3rd floor and I send the kids up there.
28:23
And I say third, third floor, but I don't count the first
28:26
floor as 0. Thank you guys.
28:28
So it's literally like it's not the fourth level, the third
28:32
level for, for those Americans listening.
28:39
So yeah. And I'll send them up there
28:41
because if I'm in the kitchen cooking and they're fighting or
28:45
playing in a way that could also like be loud or whatever, send
28:49
them up there. And and then I can't hear it
28:51
because I do think that noise becomes a lot more triggering
28:56
the older you get. I used to be able to listen to a
28:59
movie or listen to music while reading and studying.
29:04
You know, that level of simultaneous activities is no
29:09
longer the case. Like I find myself even like
29:11
turning the radio down if I'm like at a complicated part of
29:15
the directions. Like that's not helping me turn
29:18
left like like the music level. I said nobody's allowed to talk
29:24
to me when I'm parking a car, they just need to be quiet, just
29:29
for a minute. I'm trying to concentrate on
29:30
actually not smacking this into something.
29:33
And it's so, it's so funny, like my kids will, they'll be playing
29:37
and they'll go. They'll have a loud gasp and
29:39
it's part of their game, like our conversation that they're
29:43
having in the back seat. But I'll be like, what?
29:44
You know, Like suddenly you're like my boss hit something like
29:46
is someone going to hit us? Like, there is no sudden noises,
29:54
never while I'm driving. And they're like, what?
29:57
And I'm like, you know, like those loud gasps are like a
30:00
bird, you know? And you're like, Oh my God, I
30:02
nearly died because I swerved the car thinking someone was
30:06
going to hit us. And you're pointing out like,
30:08
the blue bird like that. And I know they're sitting there
30:11
being like, seriously right now, like we're doing with you.
30:14
Like I was confused. Cool bird, but we like I I
30:18
cannot take that much input. No, no, it's so funny and that,
30:22
you know, I feel like when you're 20, you drive with like
30:24
windows down, music blaring, no big deal.
30:27
Yeah, but I think kids just add this different level of it
30:31
heightens the senses, right. I mean, my youngest will click
30:35
like a pen or a toy in the back seat.
30:40
And for her, it's just like fun noises.
30:42
Like, you know, those little fidget toys, you pop it or
30:44
whatever. But after 10 minutes, not even a
30:47
couple minutes of popping, I'm like, that's enough.
30:50
And we're done with that now. So there is just, for me, it's
30:54
absolutely a noise thing. And it's hard because I want to
30:59
also balance not ignoring them. So it's easy to say like, OK,
31:05
you guys go do that over there. And while I cook dinner, I'm
31:08
going to put my headphones on and I'm going to listen to a
31:10
podcast or listen to an audio book.
31:11
But then at the same time, I'll get absorbed in my phone, right?
31:16
And so they'll be asking me for something and I'm like, not till
31:20
I'm done. And then I'm like, OK, but, but
31:22
now maybe I've gone a little too far over here and I need to kind
31:26
of come back. So it, I think it's just like
31:29
you were saying that the awareness of it, the awareness
31:32
of the feeling, the awareness of, you know, trying to, for
31:35
myself, like find that balance between the expansion and
31:39
contraction, both for me and for the kids so that we can get to
31:43
the day. And I think we're, I also
31:45
struggle, as I say, I think we're, we're, we find like a
31:48
rhythm. My kids do really well with like
31:50
a consistent rhythm at least to the week.
31:54
You know, today is art day, tomorrow is Co-op day, whatever
31:57
that looks like, right, for your home school, family.
32:00
And I am also happy to like be spontaneous like yesterday and
32:04
just say let's do the beach. But I think with that and they
32:07
did great. It was amazing.
32:09
But with that comes the other side of it, sort of like you
32:15
were saying when you got back from flow zone, like the
32:18
recovery, right. And so for us, when we got back
32:23
from flow zone, because I went with my two oldest, my youngest
32:25
wasn't old enough so she stayed home and my husband worked from
32:29
home. The second I walked in the door,
32:31
he was like, I'm going upstairs escaped and I didn't see him
32:36
till 8 O clock at night. So I went from full busyness
32:40
right of, you know, driving, being out.
32:43
We, we actually stopped for a little lunch afterwards because
32:46
I had told them we would do that.
32:48
So by the time we got home, it was 4:00.
32:50
So we had been gone. I mean, we left the house at
32:52
8:00 AM. So I know for school kids and
32:55
for the parents listening, if there are any that have kids in
32:57
school, this is a normal day for you.
32:59
It's not a normal day for me. It was a long day.
33:02
It felt like a. Long day.
33:03
The house by 8:00 AM was like a miracle.
33:07
So plus it was a good like hour and a half drive each way.
33:09
So like, we should definitely have our kudos.
33:11
Like it was. It was a good old day out, yeah.
33:13
Yeah, with a big commute and so we got back it was 4:00 and he
33:17
left and I was like cool, cool. OK, so right into it then.
33:21
And if my youngest was obviously very happy to see us, we had,
33:24
you've been gone for so long and then we had to go right into
33:30
cleaning and dinner and bath time and all of that.
33:32
So it was definitely, yeah, it was just balancing and trying to
33:36
keep everyone, everyone content, which you know is worth it
33:41
though, because it was a cool experience.
33:42
So I definitely, I definitely like you were saying, would
33:45
recommend that. And we almost didn't go because
33:48
it was so early in the morning. But I'm really happy that we
33:51
did. And I definitely would like to
33:53
go back in a few years when my youngest is old enough because I
33:56
think I think it was just really cool.
33:58
And I think you could go back and see it at a different level
34:01
and get a different perspective on it.
34:03
So they they did a really good job with that.
34:06
It was worth it, despite the chaos afterwards.
34:10
I think that's such a good point is it's recognising that we
34:13
often will find ourselves pushing ourselves a little bit
34:15
outside of our comfort zones. We'll, we'll go do something
34:18
that is, is going to definitely over stimulate some of us or
34:23
even under stimulate some of us. And say, for example, going to
34:25
the hospital to have a doctor's appointment, having to sit
34:27
around for an hour in the rating room and like put up with a
34:30
journey there and the journey back and it's boring, right?
34:32
And it's like, OK, it might change up the day a little bit,
34:34
whatever. But we have these moments when
34:38
we can feel both under stimulated or over stimulated
34:40
and those then have a knock on effect.
34:43
And I happened to be talking to, I had an ADHD coach for a little
34:45
while last year and I said, can under stimulation feel a lot
34:48
like over stimulation? Because actually I'm finding
34:52
that I've cut loads of things back to try and like stop making
34:56
myself so anxious and over stimulated and feeling like I'm
34:59
constantly being tapped out and like frustrated with the world.
35:02
But now I'm like doing almost nothing and I'm feeling like the
35:07
same sensations. And she's like, sadly, yes.
35:10
Like the the under stimulation of loneliness, of boredom, not
35:14
having spoken to enough people recently, not actually gotten
35:17
outside and enjoyed being outside enough.
35:19
Or maybe your days have just been like drifting by because
35:21
you've just been so busy with just boring like work stuff
35:23
that's just boring or whatever. You're just not really that into
35:25
it. And she said that yes, you can
35:26
then start to feel this real underwhelm for your life that
35:29
actually then also makes you feel frustrated, anxious, starts
35:33
to get these bodily sensations. And I think I definitely don't
35:37
feel like as kids we were taught anywhere near enough about what
35:41
these bodily sensations meant, what they were trying to tell
35:43
us. Maybe our parents and teachers
35:45
and everybody that we had in our lives just had no idea either
35:48
trained out of our instincts. Basically.
35:50
These are instincts. And essentially, I've definitely
35:52
noticed as an adult now that I have really got to work very
35:56
hard on trying to make sure that I am recognising when I feel
36:02
something. And that is like, that's really
36:05
the kind of key to it. It's like it doesn't always feel
36:08
like a really obvious, that's too loud, shush, please.
36:11
Sometimes it feels like I'm trying to explain it.
36:14
I'm going to have to feel into it for a second.
36:15
But like for me, it can be a bit of a tightness in my chest, it
36:19
can be a bit of a lump in my throat.
36:21
It can be that actually you might just have an ache or a
36:23
stiffness somewhere that makes you just feel like actually, I
36:25
could just do with having a bit of a wiggle.
36:27
It could be that actually you're thirsty.
36:29
It could be that you're just, you're feeling a bit tired,
36:31
maybe it's hay fever. Like if you really check in with
36:33
your body right now, like just take 30 seconds whilst you're
36:36
listening to me to just feel what feelings have I got right
36:39
now? It could be anything.
36:40
But ultimately our body is talking to us all the time.
36:42
And most of us are kind of taught to ignore it and to stop
36:45
listening to it. And the more we ignore it, the
36:48
more dysregulated it becomes. And if you want to look at this
36:50
from a scientific perspective, we have got a nervous system.
36:54
That nervous system is responsible for communicating
36:56
the feelings and sensations in our bodies to our brain and for
36:59
our brain to decide to make us do something to fix it.
37:02
If we then constantly use our brain to say thank you, nervous
37:07
signal, but I'm not going to do what you say.
37:09
I'm going to force myself to stay here actually, and not move
37:12
or not eat something and just ignore you.
37:16
But actually what we are then teaching that nerve is that
37:19
actually this isn't important. Or maybe it's that this, this
37:23
bit of information isn't worth noting.
37:26
But then actually that information was and is worth
37:30
noting. So then our nervous system gets
37:33
confused. So scientifically, if you really
37:36
want to look at it that way, it's like it's a really simple
37:38
way of describing it. We are quite literally teaching
37:41
our body what is important and what isn't and that eventually
37:44
can lead to us ignoring things that ultimately make us I'll.
37:48
I for one, as an adult who now recognises that I have got some
37:52
sensory sensitivities, I do get anxious in certain situations.
37:56
I do find some things overwhelming and I do find some
37:59
things underwhelming and I do need to actually support myself.
38:02
The more I do it, the more I actually respect it and care
38:06
about it and listen to the signals and do something about
38:08
it. I was I was SAT chatting to you
38:11
guys actually on Thursday, wasn't I saying, do you know
38:14
what? Goodness me, I love, I love that
38:16
I have felt this constant rising sense of anxiety today over and
38:21
over and over again. Like it just keeps coming back
38:23
as a wave and just like going, hello, I'm here and I'm just
38:26
going, OK, I'm listening. What's the matter?
38:29
Like what are we doing? What's going on?
38:31
And instead of having it master me and make me cancel, make me
38:34
hide, make me refuse to go out that day, make me lash out and
38:38
have a go at like at somebody about something or whatever, I'm
38:43
able to go, Oh, your anxiety, you're feeling a bit anxious
38:47
about something. Why are you feeling anxious?
38:48
What's that about? Like, what is it that's going on
38:50
in my environment or my life right now?
38:53
Or what is it that might be kind of bothering me or kind of
38:55
filtering in or has it got nothing to do with that really?
38:57
But actually it's an internal thing.
38:58
Like, am I not feeling very well?
39:00
Have I not drunk enough today? Am I tired?
39:02
Like, what is it that's bothering me?
39:04
And I'm able to then do something about it.
39:07
And it's so empowering. And I guess that's from my
39:10
perspective, if it's, it's not so much literally mastering
39:13
anxiety because we all know that it's there for a reason.
39:16
And we, we are anxious about things sometimes and that's OK.
39:19
Like we're allowed to sometimes not know what to do with it
39:21
either. And to just want to just dwell
39:23
in it. Sometimes we need a, we need a
39:25
minute to just sit and have a good cry or whatever it is that
39:27
we need to do. But ultimately recognizing what
39:29
it is, being able to go. I know this sensation.
39:33
This sensation means that I am feeling worried about something
39:37
or overwhelmed gives you an empowered action.
39:40
You're able to do something about it, whether that's
39:41
breathing, resting, chopping and changing your day, whatever.
39:46
And so I really just want to stress how important it is that
39:49
if we are not listening to ourselves, we are not living our
39:53
best life. It's just never going to be
39:55
true. And we sometimes think as
39:57
parents, and I know that probably I know this
39:58
conversation riles people because actually it makes you
40:02
think, well, it's all, it's all work for you.
40:05
Like you, you seem to have managed to get your day balance
40:07
just right that you can create all this rest for yourself,
40:09
etcetera. And the truth is that it can
40:12
appear and probably is to see to some degree it will be
40:15
privilege, absolutely. However, this has been created
40:21
by me. It's not necessarily something
40:23
that has been given to me. Some areas of it, yes, I get to
40:27
live in a safe part of the world.
40:28
I have a roof over my head, but I have worked for that and I've
40:30
created that and whatever. We're not going to get into the
40:33
privileged side of things. It's very complicated thing to
40:35
talk about. However, that's another another
40:37
whole conversation. I'm going to get myself down in
40:38
like a massive dig myself. A hole concept for me is that I
40:41
have worked really hard to recognise how I'm feeling in
40:45
different situations and to do something about it.
40:47
And that for me has been a process of recognising my
40:50
sensory sensitivities and asking the kids to give me space when I
40:53
need space and demanding it too, even if that means that they
40:57
don't necessarily get all of their needs met right now.
41:00
And asking them to recognise that I'm a human as a being and
41:03
that I have limitations and I can't always meet their needs
41:05
immediately in the moment. And I personally don't think
41:08
that's a bad thing. I personally think that's
41:10
important for our family to have good balance and for them to
41:12
recognise that we're, we all matter and that we're all a part
41:16
of this together. So I guess from my perspective,
41:21
I really want to kind of stress how important it is to kind of
41:23
get this right. But for your own perspective,
41:26
your life, your, your experience is important.
41:29
And I guess as home educators, we have chosen to have our kids
41:32
home. We don't get as many breaks as
41:36
other parents might guess if we did send them off to school,
41:38
etcetera. Not that necessarily those
41:39
parents are resting during that window.
41:40
Like I'm sure most of them are working or cleaning houses or
41:43
getting on with their day, running errands, etcetera.
41:46
Like like we tend to obviously do with tiny people attached.
41:49
Yeah. But it's different.
41:50
It is different when the child's level of stimulation.
41:54
Yeah. And I think everyone can agree
41:56
and understand that it's that's fair.
41:58
Yeah. And so I think, yeah, I think we
42:00
sometimes have got to recognise that we have invited a level of
42:04
extra stimulation into our life and that we are allowed to
42:07
therefore really work hard to set some good boundaries with it
42:10
and to care about ourselves in it, because we will suffer
42:13
otherwise. And I guess that's that's really
42:16
what I was wanting to stress with this episode, is how
42:18
important it is to take care of us.
42:20
Yeah, it really is. And if you don't it, it'll come
42:22
back and we all know that, right.
42:23
It's kind of like that incline. If you're, if you think about
42:26
walking up a steep hill and if you don't give yourself breaks,
42:32
then you end up taking a deep dive where is like if you kind
42:35
of are trying to get from point A to point B.
42:38
And it's, it's more of a step approach, like take a little bit
42:41
up and then a little bit of a break and then a little bit more
42:43
up and a little bit of a break. And then it's just never quite
42:46
that big fall. Yeah.
42:49
Yeah. Because your body will take it
42:51
if you don't grant it. It will.
42:53
And I think this mean is obviously something which has
42:55
kind of happened in in our life this week.
42:57
My husband's not been well. And it's the sort of thing which
43:00
could be very much related to stress.
43:02
And I said to him, it's it's just so important that we don't
43:06
ignore these warning signals because actually they're trying
43:08
to tell us something. And worse stuff happens if we if
43:10
we don't take care of the little things.
43:12
But yeah, so I think to summarise, I guess whether you
43:16
are neurodivergent or not, there's a very good chance that
43:19
you experience some capacity limits in your day.
43:22
And whether you're just noticing little things, big things,
43:24
whether you are really struggling right now, just try
43:28
and do something nice for you today.
43:30
Try and take a moment, even if it's literally 10 seconds a
43:33
couple of times today to just notice what feelings you have in
43:36
your body. Have a sip of water, go and get
43:38
some fresh air on your face. If you're too hot, then do
43:40
something to help cool yourself down, like do something that
43:43
makes your nervous system reregulate a little bit.
43:45
And the more you do it, the more you'll start to recognise that
43:48
this is actually superbly valuable and makes you that much
43:52
happier as a parent. And I know that since my my
43:55
husband and I have recognised sort of the autism and the ADHD
43:58
and have really taken sensory stuff on board, we have stopped
44:02
losing our temper, stopped getting so frustrated with them.
44:05
We recognise our limits better, we recognise their limits
44:08
better. We're able to meet their needs
44:10
better because we actually know what it is that's going on for
44:12
them in that moment. Like, why are they asking us for
44:14
that? It's because they're bored, or
44:16
it's because they're tired or whatever.
44:18
And it's these things help you to understand each other better.
44:22
It helps you to create better boundaries, but it also actually
44:24
helps you to meet each other's needs better because you
44:26
understand what you're dealing with.
44:28
So lots of love to you today. This can be quite a triggering
44:31
subject in and of itself, so I really respect that and I hope
44:34
that it's been helpful to talk it through.
44:37
And yeah, next week we'll be back as always.
44:39
And we've got some other random exciting stuff hopefully coming
44:42
down the pipeline too. So we will get into that when we
44:45
have the ability to talk about it.
44:47
But we're. Yeah, we're having a really
44:49
great time producing this for you each week and yeah, it's
44:53
exciting. So thank you for being a part of
44:55
our journey. As always, come and say hello
44:57
and come follow us on social media.
44:58
We have the sort of big home Ed podcast on Instagram, so come
45:02
and find us and yeah, we'll see you again next week.
45:05
Take. Care.