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62: Do The Work w/ Sabrina Zohar · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  This episode is sponsored by National Technology Management. Visit TrustNTM.com for more information. I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:21
  I couldn't be more excited to share this beautiful soul story with the Harder Than Life listeners. Sabrina Zohar's backstory is one of never, ever giving up. She has faced setback after setback and is an unstoppable force. Perhaps that is why I love her so much. Today is going to be an instant classic with a lot of F-bombs. Sabrina, welcome to the Harder Than Life show. Thank you so much for having me, Kelly. I'm super excited. We've been planning this for a while. Thank you.
• 0:46
  By the way, that's how I got you is sending you a video and dropping an F-bomb because I love your content. I love what you're doing. You exemplify harder than life. You've gone through all of the things that are tough in life. And you're still a young lady and you're finding your way and you're winning massively. So I want to share your beautiful story with the listeners. But I'm going to steal your thunder from misdiagnosis.
• 1:13
  to mom getting sick, to business challenge after business challenge, you now find yourself as a much-wanted and loved host of the Do The Work podcast. You are in love with a reciprocal and a communicative partner and launching a dating app. I know your backstory, but for those of you that don't, what's your story and why does your story matter?
• 1:34
  Well, thank you. So my story starts, I'm from South Florida and I moved to New York when I was 19 to become an actor. And so I really thought like I'd always, growing up, I was always a performer. I was in musicals and plays and runways, all that stuff. And so when I moved to New York after a couple of years of acting school, I was like, this is not for me. And so I went back to college, studied fashion, was a buyer, then became wholesale, and then
• 1:57
  And in 2016 is when I quit smoking, quit three kinds of medications. So at the time, that's when I was misdiagnosed between 2014 and 2016. I was on four kinds of medication, Effexor, Welbutrin, Depakote, Lexapro. Like I tried all the SSRIs. Then I was on Depakote. Then I was also on Klonopin, Xanax. Like I was so heavily medicated. I was just numb.
• 2:22
  And it was just them constantly hiring my dose. Nobody ever stopped to think, oh, I don't know. Maybe she just needs to like talk to somebody or explore her trauma. And so one day I was in a relationship that I wasn't happy with and I looked at him and I was like, this isn't working. And he agreed.
• 2:36
  I cut smoking cold turkey. I cut all the meds cold turkey. I've never been a drinker, so that was never hard for me. I started working out and went paleo. And that was like the hardest detox I've ever experienced in my life in a very short period of time. And that was just the beginning. That was literally the beginning of a fucking continuation of a shit show. And then my mom got sick the following year. I had lost my job. Like it was just talk about fucking like another rock bottom, another like fuck, you
• 3:02
  here we go again, being unemployed in New York, because it's not the place that you want to be. And so that's actually when I started my clothing company, the day after my mom's successful surgery. And so I had software, I've continued with software, started doing panels and podcasts and growing the business and doing all these things.
• 3:18
  really having people approach me saying, Hey man, like, would you coach me? Like, I'd love to talk to you. Could we talk, you know, what about relationships? Like, how does that sound? And last year, this time last year, I was like, ah, fuck it. What do I have to lose? I'll start Tik TOK. And then the Tik TOK mushroomed into a podcast and the podcast mushroomed into everything else. And somehow here I am. You're beautiful. It worked three minutes in and I'm all like, I forgot to start with the hello, hello, hello.
• 3:43
  Hello, hello, hello. My partner makes fun of me so fucking hard every day for that. That's the way it's supposed to be. I've listened to every one of your podcasts. And if you don't already follow her, follow her immediately. She's at Sabrina.Zohar on TikTok and Instagram. Please also rate and follow her on Do The Work podcast. Do The Work is thrown around lots lately in personal development space. What does that mean to you?
• 4:10
  So it really has. It's kind of like the word narcissist. All of a sudden, everybody is like, oh, fuck, everybody knows. For me personally, I think when it comes to what actually doing the work means is it's not just about a self-awareness. That's the first fucking step. Having self-awareness is great. But how many times have we spoken to people that are like, I know that this isn't good for me.
• 4:30
  But I still do it. And you're like, okay. So it's not about self-awareness. But what it really is to me is it's understanding that all of us have experienced trauma. Every single person on this planet, whether it's big T trauma or little T trauma, we've all experienced some sort of traumas. And so often, especially when it comes like, oh, people don't think that it manifests in other ways. It does. It manifests relationships. It manifests in personal and friendships and career, everything. But we see it more often in relationships because it's the closest mimic to our parents.
• 5:00
  And so personally, my journey was I had a narcissistic father and a people-pleasing mother. So it was very textbook. We grew up in a home with a lot of abuse, with a lot of like verbal abuse, a lot of like hitting and soap in the mouth and a belt. Like it was just, my sister and I talked yesterday where we were like...
• 5:15
  It was just a lot of darkness. Like we don't remember ever really being happy as a kid or, or, or excited. And so those were how I created coping mechanisms and I created core beliefs of I wasn't good enough and I wasn't worthy. So I had a self-esteem that was shot by the time I started dating in adulthood. I was just dating my father over and over and over again. And I didn't understand how that was going to manifest. And it was so wild, but I started dating men that were just an exact replica. And when I realized it was when I had married,
• 5:42
  my father, exact same situation. And we broke up. That was the time where after I said, enough is enough. I have to be the common denominator. It can't be everybody else. And for me, that was my beginning of doing the work. So I had the awareness, but then what the fuck does that mean? What are you doing the work? For me, it really is that you are
• 6:02
  bringing in a multitude of different modalities. So you are taking the awareness and then understanding what does your body look like when you're dysregulated? Because when you're dysregulated, you're coming out of a space of not safe. And that's why sometimes we'll say things or act in ways that we're like, wow, this doesn't feel like me, right? Because you're dysregulated.
• 6:17
  Then we move into, okay, well, where is that in my body? How is this feeling in my body? Starting to connect with your body. When have I felt this before? How is this feeling? I think a lot of people, they don't want to do the work because they don't want to see those shadow parts. They don't want to see that little inner child that needs you because instead it's, oh, just let everybody else come save me. I just haven't found the right guy. That's all. It's just not the right person. When it's like, no, motherfucker, it's you are not saving yourself. It's not that everybody else is going to do this for you. And so for me, really what doing the work is, it's,
• 6:47
  acknowledging those parts of yourself, facing those parts of yourself and healing through them and supporting those parts of yourself that need you more than any, they need you more than they need any other person. I think we need to extend this podcast several hours because you're just so good. Where in South Florida did you grow up?
• 7:08
  Boca. That was Boca Ritzauan. So my parents moved from New York, then they moved to South Florida. And then I left, all of us, me and my sister and brother all left the minute we turned 18. It's just not, it's not a place for us. So I went to New York for 12 years and then California.
• 7:20
  I just, before we hit record, I'm just telling you, but I can't be over there. I love it over there. I got a lot of business over there. I do a ton of things, but if I were over there, I could never meet my goals. There's just too many temptations. So I built a house on the other side where it's slow and sleepy. And yeah.
• 7:38
  So what I run into, I've dated every single self-unaware and every single emotionally unavailable woman. So what do you recommend besides the guy or the person who is aware and has done the work run away when someone is completely ignorant and not self-aware? What do you recommend people do with that? Because some people just literally, I say that denial is not a freaking river in the Amazon. But what the hell is that?
• 8:05
  Realistically speaking, I get people all the time that are like, no, I just always date emotionally unavailable people because they're just like, that's just all there is. And it's like, no, what's happening is that person's triggering you. So when somebody is so wildly unaware, the first thing I even have to stop is I'm like, okay, do you want to take any accountability and ownership of anything that's transpired in your dating life?
• 8:26
  Because if we're, the first thing we need to acknowledge is, Hey, yeah, I guess I do kind of have a pattern because if you have a pattern of dating emotionally unavailable people. So then my question is, okay, so are you emotionally unavailable? Are you emotionally available? Do you even know what that means? Do you even, I try to educate first. So I'll be like, okay, let me explain to you what that means. So when you feel anxious, I'll always ask what happens in your body? And they'll be like, I don't know. I just get anxious. And it's like, okay, so you're not even aware of what's happening.
• 8:50
  your body. So let's, I tried to like kind of layman's term it because for somebody that is so completely like, I get it, you know, you fucking know, you have a Tik TOK and an Instagram and all that shit. We see the trolls, the little clap backs that, you know, it's no, I didn't do anything wrong. It's my avoided. He strung me along. And it's like, okay, victim, you don't want to take any accountability of, Oh wait, you allowed it. And so I think that's kind of the first step with anybody that I, that I even meet when they're so unaware of,
• 9:17
  If I'm even having a, you know what? We can also say with like a lot of the stuff happening in the world right now, it kind of mimics that. If I'm trying to have a conversation with you and all you're going to do is argue with me or deflect or take no accountability, what I'm going to do is say, you know what? I don't need to waste my time anymore. Take care. I just move. I remove myself. I don't need to. I'm not your fucking therapist. I'm not your friend. I'm not your mom. I am not anybody to you. I am here, especially if you're on a date with them. It's like, hey, babe, good luck. Godspeed. Let me know how that works for you when you're 45, still doing the same shit.
• 9:46
  So years ago I was in therapy and the therapist said to me,
• 9:50
  If you meet somebody and you get all anxious and excited and what we know now is called triggered, run. I thought it was nuts. And he was so right because that was activating your childhood and bringing you back to your familiar, I call it misery, if you're going to continue to date your father. Talk a little bit about, because a lot of women listen to this podcast and tell me about dating the father.
• 10:18
  Well, and so here's the thing. The thing about a trigger is there's so many ways to look at it because triggers are not always a bad thing. Triggers are a really great way for us to learn about ourselves. It's a really great way. So like I have my partner, I fucking love my partner and we've been together a year now. I still get triggered constantly. Like, cause, cause we're human. It's going to happen where, but that's where I have to stop doing the work where I've stopped and gone, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 10:41
  Am I creating a narrative based on a past projection because he said no to me? Or did he say something that was genuinely rude and disrespectful that we need to handle? And this is why I'm upset. So I think it's like looking at that first off, when it comes to the father wound,
• 10:55
  Some people have the mama wound. It really doesn't matter. Ultimately, at the end of the day, when you're trying to seek dating your father, yeah, yeah, guilty as charged. When you're trying, when we have unfinished business from our childhood. So like for me, having a narcissistic father, all my life, all I wanted to do was get him to love me in the ways that I wanted him to love me.
• 11:12
  Not knowing, because as a child, I don't understand what's going on. I can't comprehend that my parents are immigrants and they have their own shit and they had their own traumas. And, you know, my mom was in an orphanage. And as a kid, it was like, as a kid, all I see zero, zero to 10, which is egocentric age is, oh, it must be me. Is there something wrong with me? Because that's how we create the who. That's how we create our identity is through the way that we connect with our caregivers.
• 11:35
  And so if you had a caregiver that was super inconsistent, hot and cold, breadcrumbing, or emotionally unavailable, or was dismissive, or would leave, whatever, anything that wasn't healthy, then what happens is you create those core beliefs and that narrative that sticks with you. That's created from that childhood dynamic. And then it just gets mimicked. So then that's why you date your father, because always in the back of our minds, it's, well, if I can change them, then maybe I could have gotten the love I never was able to.
• 11:58
  But without understanding, it has nothing to do with the external people because that little you that's so scared of abandonment, she's not scared that these fucking schmoes are going to abandon her. I don't care about these people. The she or the he or the they that's inside of you is scared that you are going to abandon you again for somebody else. Man, you are afraid. Did you go to college? Yeah.
• 12:22
  I dropped out of college. Where'd you go to school? New York or? I went to New York. I went to seven colleges because I just couldn't. College was never for me. It was just not my fucking place. But I almost, I failed my PE class, which is why I didn't get my degree. Otherwise, I would have had a fucking degree in business. But I went for business and I minored in psychology.
• 12:43
  So it's always been an interest of mine. And then as I started to do the work on myself, I just started diving into like, I took like six courses on this one school and I started taking Masha's mind calibration course of the nervous system. I think once you understand it, it's so fucking fascinating.
• 12:59
  No, it is. I read all of Brene Brown's books, every one of them. And really, why? Because I want to know how women think. I want to get it. That's why I binge on your podcast, even though it's all about women. And I just want to, I'm curious. I love to hear just equal sides of everything. I just think it's amazing. You know what? The reason why I was asking that was,
• 13:23
  hell did you get so freaking versed in this? And it just rips off your, I've read more books than anybody about this stuff. I can't rip it off like that.
• 13:32
  I think I just, when I get passionate about something, when I get like kind of hyper-focused about it, that's it. It becomes my world. I also, you know, I deal with like, I usually have two to four clients a day. So I'm repeating the shit over and over and over. And then when I have people on the podcast, repeating it and repeating it, I have conversations with my family, with my friends. It's something that's like, this is what I live and eat and breathe. Software, my clothing company, like, yeah, it's awesome. But it was like, I did six years of that. So like, that was a, that was how it was there. I learned everything I could about it.
• 14:01
  But I think too, like, it's interesting because I try to make the podcast a they. I try not to make it about, we have actually a lot of men because there are a lot of men that are anxious. They don't even understand that. But I think it's such a beautiful way to say like, yeah, I want to understand different perspectives. I want to understand because then that way, if you date somebody like my partner, he was avoidant, now secure. I was super anxious, now secure.
• 14:23
  In our relationship, we're super secure. We don't worry that we're going to leave each other and shit like that. But he studied psychology as well. Him understanding how anxiety works means that he knows how he can support me. So you knowing and understanding that is a great way for you to learn, oh, okay, maybe if my partner's getting really anxious right now, I'm understanding, hey, we're disconnected. How can I support you? Because sometimes all an anxious person wants to just feel seen.
• 14:48
  And you're going to meet a lot of them. I tell everybody, I tell Jason Smith this, I said, I'm a recovering anxious attacher. I just surrender and let things happen. I don't care what everything, I look back on lines for me, I'm much older than you. So I just, I've made every freaking mistake known to man and it's always been push, push, push because I'm anxious. Oh my God, I got to do this, I got to do that. Hey, why don't I just be me and the right people will come to me.
• 15:17
  Um, start to receive instead of always trying to give, it's like, it's nice to sometimes just be like, you know what? I'm just ready for you to come and actually show your reciprocity to me as well. And I'll be here to receive it. Hardest damn thing in the world. My mother was abusive, like really like physically and emotionally abusive and then never around. I mean, it's been, I haven't talked to my mother in 25, 26 years. Which takes a lot of strength.
• 15:43
  You know what the weirdest thing is? Is if my daughter, I have a 14-year-old daughter. If my daughter didn't talk to me tomorrow and just went away, I would still send letters. I would still send cards. I would still send. But I just said to somebody, in 30 years, even when I did talk to her, she hasn't reached out to me once.
• 16:00
  30 fucking years. It's so sad. I couldn't, you couldn't keep me away from my daughter, but. Oh, a hundred percent. Cause you're, you're a parent that loves your child unconditionally. And sometimes, unfortunately, my dad and I didn't talk for a year. Same thing. It was like, I didn't hear from him. And it's like, sometimes when ego comes so hard, they just feel like I was wrong and I don't need to reach out. And it's like,
• 16:21
  What I've also learned is like, life is short, man. All of us could be gone right now. We could literally be gone today, tomorrow. Nothing is guaranteed. I'm so glad that you didn't give me the advice. Like you should reach out to them. No, I've processed that. I will see them at their funeral. I have forgiven them and I've moved on. And I've also, here's what, when you really forgive, Sabrina, you'll love this.
• 16:42
  you start realizing some of the things that they did good. So I give them credit. Like the grit that I have to succeed came from my stepfather. The fact that I quit drinking cold turkey came from my stepfather. Now, the reason why I'm a big monster is because my stepfather used to beat the shit out of me and I wanted to kick his ass.
• 17:01
  So this opens up doors for me that I couldn't do before. So I was able to look and then, you know what? I remember having quit drinking and how freaking crazy life got and how the world seemed like it was. I could empathize and have lots of compassion for my stepfather when he quit. So I get it. It sounds like this is where kindred spirits, you just did it much sooner than me. So congratulations to you because I did it 10 years after you.
• 17:28
  I did it during the pandemic and said, let's do this.
• 17:32
  My partner actually, so he doesn't talk to his dad. He hasn't talked to his dad in 18 years. And it's like, I have always been the type of person that I think there's a lot of strength. Nobody really talks enough about how much it takes for a child to remove themselves from their parent because we are taught all of our lives, well, it's your parent, you have to respect them. You have to love them, you have to. And it's like, that's just antiquated thinking. It's like, no, I don't have to accept abuse. I don't have to accept bullshit. I don't have to accept what you're giving me. I deserve more than that. And you've said that, this doesn't work for me.
• 18:00
  That's the first freaking boundary that you got to have it. If every time I, every time I went to their house, I felt like shit. It's like, why would I do this? It's just insane. You're here. So I'm one of your pod now podcast. You said you're a misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Heck even were prescribed crazy amounts of Xanax, among other things. You have your shit together tremendously. Now, uh, was there a big breakthrough and aha moment or was it a slow and steady? Yeah.
• 18:30
  It was pretty, so yeah, I was, because I'd gone to a therapist or I'd gone to a psychiatrist. And of course, the first thing they do is take medicine. You're like, um, okay. I don't, is that the answer? Yeah. Take medicine. All right. So took medicine. Um, and I was just so heavily medicated and I, but I always knew like something in my gut, I was just like, this doesn't feel right. And it was just higher dose, higher dose, higher dose. And it was just, it literally, it was one of those things that over time it started to accumulate, you know, when it's like, I went to a wedding with my ex and, you know,
• 18:59
  This is always like the kiss of death is like when you go to a wedding with someone and you realize you don't want to be there with them, you know, you're like, I couldn't see myself doing this with them. We broke up like very shortly after, but it was just me waking up one day and I was like, I smoke a pack a day. I'm on all these meds. I'm so I've not worked out in seven years. I don't, I eat like a six-year-old at loose in a grocery store. And like my mama always says, when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll make a change. And I hit rock, rock bottom.
• 19:24
  And that was one of many, but for me, it was a very calming, like, I need to try something different. And I just did. And it really showed me how much stronger I am because I was doing the withdrawals. I didn't know that I could have died by doing, getting off benzos without tapering, like, whoops, here we are. But it was the most intense, like I had cystic acne on my face. I was in a severe depression. I was at the worst job ever, but it really showed me one, I'll never work for anyone
• 19:53
  We can really overcome anything if we really want to, if we have the bandwidth, the tools, and we really want to make the fucking changes. You know, you went sober. That's not fucking easy. Well, I did more than sober. I quit everything. I don't take anything. I don't take Xanax. I don't take cannabis. And I freaking went head on straight into the shit. And all of a sudden, 40 years of all my emotions flooded. Yeah.
• 20:21
  And I sat, this was during the pandemic. I sat on my couch in a ball, 215 pound ball, crying my 40 years of feelings. And now I'm very vulnerable and I'm very excited to share my feelings because I mean, 40 years of masking them. Yeah, 100%. And especially when you're not ever taught that it's safe to express those.
• 20:46
  You know, the beauty part about loving yourself and that gets thrown out there a lot is if it's not safe, you can make it safe. And I mean that by because you can trust yourself to get you out of that situation really quick. If somebody makes it unsafe for me, I giggle and I just start laughing and like, man, there's nothing you're going to say to me that I haven't been through or done. And this is all on you. You know, one finger pointing away, three pointing right back at you.
• 21:12
  I was gonna say, there's nothing that you were saying to me that I haven't said 10 times worse to myself. Like, please. But no, it's true. When you trust yourself, you'll know that no matter what, you'll be okay. You know that that's the thing with the dating stuff. So many people are fucking, but we have to know if it's gonna work out and they try to attach to the outcome and I need to know what's going on. And it's like, if you trust yourself, you can learn to surrender because you say, no matter what, my gut and I are so fucking connected. I don't need to try to control the outcome. I could just be because at any moment, fuck.
• 21:40
  Yeah, I could right now, I could have no, I could have $0 coming in today. But in one email, I could get a deal for $10,000. That's how quickly, in one second, you could get a match. In one second, walking down the street, you could meet somebody. With that kind of curiosity and excitement, it took away the, oh my God, and the scarcity mindset, and I'm never going to be with it, and I'm scared. And it allowed me to live in the now saying, well...
• 22:04
  I'm here, right? So I can't change all of this. My anxiety is not helping me. So let's just see what God, the universe, whoever the fuck is up there has for me. So sometimes I say the heart beats the brain. Why you just started going in or something to keep going. Why is dating so complicated and what the heck should we do about it? Okay, why is dating so complicated? How much time do we have? So just go and listen to do the work podcast over and over and over.
• 22:33
  In a nutshell, what I've really seen, and I was taught, I don't know if you know Dr. Stan Tatkin. He's awesome. And he's just, he has the PACT Institute. So he's just like a doctor. He's been studying human- Was this the last podcast that you just released? I listened to it. It was great. So Stan, I loved what he said on there, where he said, and this is the issue I think we're having in dating. I have never seen so many entitled fucking children out there that refuse to one, take accountability, two, take ownership, or three, look at themselves. There is, when I say the entitlement, it's-
• 23:02
  We've never had more narcissists. That's what Stan was saying. He was like, we've never diagnosed more narcissists than we have now. Because I think what the issues I'm having with dating is everybody I seem to encounter, especially in my business, seems to feel like people owe them something. Everybody owes you something. That they have to do this or that they have. I'm sorry, who the fuck are you?
• 23:20
  And like, I had done one thing where I said, it's not ghosting if you go on a one date and the person doesn't want to see you again. And like, they don't owe you anything. They don't owe you a text. You met them once. You don't have a job interview. They don't owe you a fucking response. And when somebody wrote, oh my God, they absolutely do owe me a response. I'm a queen. I'm deserving of everything. And I was like, you entitled little fuck. This is the issue. You think that you do nothing wrong and nothing's your fault. It's everybody else. And so I showed up on this date. So I automatically get what I want.
• 23:48
  Where it's no, actually, what we need to learn in dating is that everybody operates differently. Nobody owes you a fucking thing. Nobody. This world doesn't owe you shit. Is it fair? No. Get over it. Deal with it. That's where we're living, right? Otherwise, we wouldn't have death and poverty and all of this crazy shit that happens. So once we kind of understand that...
• 24:08
  I think when people entering in the dating world, release control of the goddamn outcome. Stop attaching. Just so let's say you and Kelly, you and I are on a date right now. Just because we're having a great time doesn't mean that all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, but I have to be with him. Oh my God, but he's like, oh my God, he's so hot and there's nobody else. There's not going to be anyone. I haven't met anyone.
• 24:25
  In fact, hold on, I'd argue that from the work I've done, that if you're feeling that, then it's an unhealthy relationship. It's an anxious attachment. 100%. If you're feeling that, it's going to be a healthy relationship and feel boring.
• 24:39
  Tell me I'm wrong. It feels calm. It just feels calming. And I think the boring people, and it's like, yeah, that's the saying is like healthy equals boring. It's like, yeah, because your nervous system is regulated. Yeah. Well, I grew up in such chaos. That's my norm. And so it's like when things aren't chaos, there's no love. But I've solved that.
• 24:57
  It's true though, because I'm the same. I grew up in only knowing that you have to earn it and you have to be like, I always have to prove myself and I had to be a good girl and I had to do this and I had to put my needs aside and who the fuck am I to have boundaries? But then you kind of become an adult and you're like, wait a minute. I do deserve to be able to speak up. I do have the right to say what I want to say. But you know what also I think people need to realize when it comes to dating is like,
• 25:19
  There doesn't just because somebody breaks it off or says like, I had somebody right today. I can't get over it. How am I not going to take it personally that he said he's not ready for he doesn't want a relationship? And I was like, yeah, but he told you this relatively early. What do you mean? How are you not going to take this personally? Like you're making this about you because you want it to reaffirm your core belief, because instead of what you'd have to look at is, oh, I guess everybody operates differently. This person's his journey and that's his that's what he's going to do. And here we go.
• 25:46
  Let me make this personal about me. And then I got a bunch of more questions. Oh, and my theory on this, um, on the entitlement, I agree with you, but I am a little older and I would tell you that it's a lot about pain avoidance. I'm a subscriber, Brene Brown. I think the moment shit gets tough, they're tapping out. Oh my God. I got to have this vulnerable conversation. Get me out of here.
• 26:09
  because a bunch of little pussies. It's a lot of, I hate to say it that way, but my sister's been saying this for years. Like when I would date these guys, she'd be like, oh yeah, because mommy always told them, you know, you do no wrong and you're perfect and you're amazing and everything that people are like, I get it every day. I say, why don't you have a conversation with this person? I can't talk about this. Why would I say that? Then they're going to walk away. Then they're going to leave me. And I'm like, you are so scared to just communicate because no one ever taught you how that now it's not. I just, I want to avoid the feeling.
• 26:35
  Now you just went into where I was going to go. Because when I go on dates, and I'm going to blow my horn. I have done every freaking healing modality. I know how to communicate. I'm handsome. I make good money. I'm a catch. Got it going on, Kelly. Yes, I am. And then we go on dates, have a good time, and then they just disappear. They're like, hell to the no. I am not getting involved in that level of self-awareness. And I say, no.
• 27:02
  Thank you. Thank you. Same thing. Why do you think when I met my partner and I asked people, fuck it, I did a video that went viral. People lost it. This is terrible advice. What is this, a job interview? And it's like, thanks for showing us your emotional unavailability. All I asked were three questions. Do you have space for a relationship and what kind? Like, do you want? Love it. Is that something that's interesting to you? How did your last relationship end and what did it teach you about yourself? I don't care about the ex. I want to know what you learned.
• 27:31
  So make sure you're not a narcissist. And third, what's a passion and a project that you're working on right now that you're super excited about? Because what that tells me is, do you have the time and the bandwidth? Grant, write those three down, put those in the show notes. That's fricking fire. And link to her podcast. Yeah.
• 27:46
  You'd be shocked. People lose their marbles. But then when I asked my partner, I said, so what did you like about our first date? And he was like, the questions you asked. He was like, you were not like any girl I'd ever met. He was like, you were different. And you asked things of depth. He was like, I knew I wasn't dealing with the average. So here's my thing. If you're scared to ask those fucking questions on a date, then good luck having a relationship of depth because you don't even know how to communicate or let alone deal with maybe hearing an answer you don't like. Because otherwise, most people do that to go, oh, I don't want to rock the boat.
• 28:14
  So you're so good. You're deep. You know what it was, right? When you liked about the first date, you put out the first date. So that's why. I mean, I did. I know. I told you I listened to the podcast. I love it. I love it. You are absolutely. But you know, here's the funny thing. No, but Kelly, to your point, it's so funny because most people would go, that's why they would never have worked. Oh, she put out on the first date. And it's like, no, motherfucker. I have spoken to every guy. I'd like to know, Kelly, from your perspective, if you really liked a girl.
• 28:40
  You guys went on a date, first date, and she hooked up with you. Would the act of her hooking up with you be the reason you never want to see her again? No. No. Because honestly, between you and me and the fence post, sex is so important to me that if it's horrible or bad, that would be a no-no. So at least we can get over that hump. Now, there is a little bit of school of thoughts where it changes things a little bit and it rushes feelings. I've walked away from some...
• 29:09
  Sure things because I didn't want to, I could see that there was no future and it was like, no, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to put any emotions on this or any feelings on this and go down that same rabbit hole or worse yet beyond that same fricking merry-go-round. I've done that too many times. I know that they're emotionally available. They like me. They want to fricking hang out. And this would be nothing more than a physical attraction. And I've walked away.
• 29:34
  But that's you being responsible as opposed to – because those girls would see it as, well, he hooked up with me and then, oh, it's because I put out too quick. And I'm like, no. That guy knew he probably didn't want a relationship with you already, but then he got laid. It's like, no, no, no. It's not the –
• 29:49
  Yeah, it's like, it's not, and I'm trying to like scream this from the rooftops. It's not because you slept with the person. It's because either their intentions weren't there to match or you sucked in bed or they're just, the chemistry wasn't there because I've had that. I've gone out with dates where I'm like, I want a relationship. Then we hook up and I'm like, yikes, that was awful. And I do not like this guy.
• 30:08
  Or neither one has done any work on themselves. And so that means that they didn't activate each other's insecurities. That's what people don't realize too. Sometimes when people haven't done any work, they're looking for that familiar misery. Oh, yeah. And when they don't get it, they're like, oh, he's not for me. Well, you mean you didn't feel, I've heard this, I didn't feel the connection. Oh, you mean I don't have any drama or chaos and I'm healed. So...
• 30:32
  Go ahead. Or I didn't feel the spark. Yes. Go enjoy that with your unhealed next guy. And good luck with that. And thank you for playing for a minute. So you'll be coming back to us in a couple of years for advice. Don't worry about it. Yes. Yes. What modality? So I did several modalities of therapy. And I think everyone happened in the right order at the right time. Yeah.
• 30:54
  Did you have one? So, so I did obviously talk therapy. I did EMDR. I did hypnotherapy and I learned pieces of all of them. What was there? One of them that you did that kind of broke, broke something loose. Cause my childhood trauma, like I had to process, I thought I processed the, the, the trauma. And like I had big teacher. I wrote about it in my book, harder than life. My mom woke me up from a dead sleep at nine and beat the living shit out of me. Drunk.
• 31:23
  That doesn't tend to make you feel safe. No. And also makes you hate your birthday. So it was my birthday. And so on top of it, to where I was going with this is I thought I'd processed that. I'd forgiven her and each modality I'd had to forgive her in a different way. And it wasn't until I did EMDR. And this is the logic I assigned. Have you done EMDR?
• 31:50
  So you assign logic to an emotional thing. So my logic to that was she was making me tough.
• 31:57
  Dude, it doesn't make any sense, but it made sense to the little kid and it was able to move on. But when I did that, I cried for like 24 hours. 24 hours. And we had to stop this session because I was going to break the freaking computer. And it wasn't until this two sessions. We had to do two sessions on that one. And I was like, okay.
• 32:21
  Good. And I thought I'd process that in hypnotherapy. I processed it in talk therapy, but what was your breakthrough? I, so I had, after my ex, like I had done EMDR when I was with my narcissistic ex and I, it just wasn't for me. Like it wasn't resonating. I couldn't get there because I think I had blocked them out so severely. And so maybe if I tried it in a different order, who knows? When I started therapy, I started with CBT and I had the reason I loved this therapist. And like, I agree with you. I,
• 32:48
  All of my modalities that I used came at the right time. So they helped me in different ways. So like my first therapist, she helped me with meditation. So I started to learn how to be able to sit with my emotions, how to be able to distance myself from thoughts and not being able to attach to them. Then we started to do tapping. I don't know if you've ever done tapping. Tapping was a game changer for me because I was so like, you know, we'd be tapping on the pressure points and these are to calm you down when you're thinking about like high stress moments.
• 33:15
  And so we would start and she'd be like, okay, just start. And I'd be like, I'm such a piece of shit. And she would repeat, she'd be like, I'm such a piece of shit. And then I'd go and I'd be like, well, am I a piece of shit? It just allowed me to like process through. And I was like, wait, I didn't do anything. And so while having these thoughts, I was calming my nervous system down, which was really beneficial. Then she left and it was time for me to level up. Then I went to DBT therapy.
• 33:35
  DBT therapy I fucking love because it taught me how to put my thoughts on trial, how to think of future me, different modalities, different things I could use, added it to my toolbox. And I was like, I'm going to take this and this and this, and I like this. Then I moved on from there. In the interim of all that, what the breakthrough for me was- Let me stop for one second. I'm just going to tell the users because you're blazing through some things that people may have not heard of. Cognitive behavior therapy. Cognitive behavior therapy.
• 33:58
  Dialectual behavior therapy. One is your brains. One is your thought or as you're speaking. Look them up. These are very, very good modalities. Now I see why they tried to label you borderline. Because those are common borderline personalities. I never knew what a borderline is until I had this crazy...
• 34:23
  narcissistic. I wouldn't say she's not crazy. It's just unhealed. It was just an intense situation. We'll say, um, yeah, no, that they thought I was borderline just because the high highs and the low lows, I was really, I would get really, really high and then get really low. But yeah, so when I was doing, um, DBT, um,
• 34:39
  loved it but during that I actually ketamine treatments were the I think the lid that popped the the cork for me because do they were I'm so glad you went there because I meant that I didn't put in anyone or show notes and I and I heard it on one of the last two and it's becoming legal in many places it's legal here in Michigan yeah it's been legal in California New York like Miami I think it's Canada it's like there's tons so you could go in you could have it at home it's
• 35:07
  It was the one, and listen, I know a lot of people that have done it and they haven't seen any different, you know, they'll just tell me like, I feel the same and it's like, well, it's what you get out of it. Right. For me personally, I was able to, I had a very good, um,
• 35:20
  the fuck is the word? Intention. You know, so like with ketamine- Fuck is the word, fuck is the word. Fuck is the word, there it is. With ketamine, if you don't have an intention, you'll just float. You'll just kind of get high and just kind of be. My intention was where am I stuck? And it literally like my, I remember my nephew, my therapist and I talked, she's like, you needed a kid to bridge the gap. He brought me to the attic where I used to hide when I was a kid. That was the first time I remember. And I walked in and she just like wouldn't talk to me. And I was like, I don't know what to do.
• 35:47
  And then as I was going to leave, she turned to me and she was like, you fucking abandoned me. And that was the first time I was like, wait, what? And like, I had no idea. I was like, what's in her child? Like, what is this? That was the catalyst for me. I've probably done 15 to 20 sessions at this point. Every time I see something new, I see something different. I see something I need to work through. I see something that needs me. And it just gives me more clarity when I come to the conscious world to be like, okay, cool.
• 36:13
  First, what I did was I was able to remove her, create a safe space. I was able to talk to my little me. It gives me that modality. I can do that with meditating now. But what it really did was it allows you to not feel what she's feeling because none of us want to go back to that traumatic experience, but we want to be able to heal through it. And so by doing the ketamine, you're like a spectator. So you don't feel what the little you is feeling, but you still cry in your feet because you're watching it. So it was, I have to say, that's probably the biggest game changer for me.
• 36:40
  So I recently did plant medicine ceremony for the first time. I didn't do ayahuasca, but I did something more than, than it was probably some sort of ketamine.
• 36:50
  And I did an intention and my intention was to just relax cause I'm grinding on myself so hard. I just wanna relax and just be one with my mind. And I actually was in a big group of people and I brought everyone together and calmed everybody down and that was the calming influence. The download that I had several days later on the plane ride home, cause it was in Arizona and I came here back to Detroit, was I was able to separate intimacy, sex and love.
• 37:19
  Those were freaking hard for me. I didn't realize, and I didn't even have that intention, but it downloaded about a week later. And I realized that those are three separate things. And when I was drinking and drugging and partying and womanizing, those were all one and the same. I got sex, love, and intimacy all from one. But really, what I learned in this ceremony was that I could get intimacy from you.
• 37:42
  I can get into it. We're, we're just connecting with you right now and talking about this is very intimate. It's vulnerable. It's fricking connection. I love that. And I love you for it. Uh, now it's, it's, it's just, so I, I, all I was trying to say is that, and I'm going to another one here in two weeks and I'm going to have a total different intention. And you're talking about it. You know what my intention is going to be? I'm going to show up as little Kelly. Kelly.
• 38:08
  Because I think little Kelly still needs something because something is holding me back. Because I want to take over the freaking world and there's something still not. I went through and I've taken every physical test. I just got back from New York, took an MRI with AI. And there's nothing physically wrong. I've ruled everything out. There's something stuck in my subconscious. I'm going to go yank that freaking thing out. And I'm going to, I'll share it with you.
• 38:34
  I mean, well, please. And even sometimes like reparenting is the most beautiful thing. Like even if you maybe see Kelly, that vision of your mom doing that to him and that's how you save him. You break through the door and say, get the fuck away from him. I'm here to take him. And you remove him because-
• 38:50
  Yeah. When that, like when we're, and it's like, if new memories, like when you go there and you try to explore with him, it's like, it's so beautiful. And I still have to do that. Like I'm a new business owner. It's, you know, how it is being a business owner. So much instability. We don't know what the fuck's going to happen. One day I make money the next day don't. So I'm dealing with, and growing up, my dad used money as a carrot. He would always bait us with how much money he gave us and he would take it away all the time. So I grew up feeling that.
• 39:12
  I'm still consciously working with little Sabrina every day to be like, hey, babes, I'm here for you. I'm not abandoning you. Dad's not going to take things away from you. It's always going to be a process. But once you have that little you next to you, you can't ever like unsee it.
• 39:26
  Yeah, I love it. It's beautiful. I resonate with all this. Just this weekend, I... So little triggers that still trigger me. Food, if I'm hungry. Yeah. Because there was no food in the house. My parents were alcoholics. So if I'm ever hungry, I immediately get to the, I'm going to die. That's a weird one. And I literally go and I...
• 39:46
  Big Kelly walks into the house. I just had to do for social media. We had to drive by my parents' house. They still live there. And we filmed it. It's a little shit box this big. It's as big as my living room now. And I just, I talked to that little Kelly all the time. I said, you're safe, you're loved, and you're okay. And he knows it. And we just giggle about it.
• 40:08
  And I can do that in the blink of an eye now. And that's what happens when you quote unquote do the work. Yes. And I, and, and you mentioned the meditating, I meditate. And by doing all those mindfulness and doing the work, man, you're able to maneuver through the day. And then I say to this, how good can you handle life? Yeah. A hundred percent. It's like, it's such a great, it's such a game changer.
• 40:32
  I'm so happy for you to found, what is his name? Jesus, is it Nick? His real, no, Ryan, his real name is Ryan. I can't call him tech guy. When he's at, wait, we were just showing him in the IT business. What does he do in tech?
• 40:46
  So he was a project manager for a long time. And actually now he, so the dating app, we actually, I walked away from it just because of time. I couldn't do it. I did not have, it was getting to a point because it wasn't my app. It was somebody else came to me and said, Hey, do you want to help us develop this? And I was like, okay. And so that's why I like, I couldn't call it, do the work or anything. I was like, oh wait, this isn't my thing.
• 41:04
  And it just became a point where they were like, we're going to need more time from you. And I was like, I can't. I'm like, I'm giving you everything I can and I'm not getting paid. I was like, I can't do it. So I had to walk away from that and I will pursue something else. But actually, Ryan slash tech guy, we're going to work together. He's going to help me with the podcast and do all the techie shit and help me organize. And I want to take my business to the next level. And that's what I'm focusing on right now.
• 41:25
  You're on a trajectory of fire. I'm a business. I've owned several businesses and I'm right there next to you and you can see we're kind of going together and anything I can do to help you, you have it. That was my next question was going to be, what did you decide on the dating app thing? I'm kind of glad that when you texted me last time and said that you couldn't use the name, I went, okay, what the hell's going on here? I would highly suggest you be surprised how you can white label some of these things. I'm white labeling a health and fitness app right now.
• 41:53
  That is going to absolutely explode explode. I am going to take on and this is the first time I said this on the airwaves. We're going to take on and the social media people and try to create a positive social media app where people go into it. And there's guidelines that say if you're negative, you're getting kicked off.
• 42:14
  And we're, and this is all my heart of the life brand is for charity. We want to donate a million dollars for a year to charity. And we, we pick two children's charities and one addiction charity because that's what I, I wish somebody would have helped me. So that's it. I'll be on the lookout for that. Cause I really think you'd have a great app.
• 42:36
  Not that I've ever been on. I don't know anything. I think that it's, it monetizes so much faster than one-on-one training and, and the podcast and everything. We'll take that offline, but I'm very glad to hear that you moved on because it did not sound in alignment with you. And it takes a strong person to do that. I got to a point.
• 42:55
  Thank you. And actually, that's what I'm talking to my friend who's a therapist. She was like, that takes a lot for you to walk away. And I was like, oh, I didn't. I almost stayed. And I kept staying. And I finally had to stop. And I was like, wait a minute, you're fighting me on the name. You're fighting me on the logo. You're fighting me on everything. And I was like, that's my job. My job was head of creative and head of content. And I was like, this is why I don't work for other people. I know what I need to do. I've built two businesses that are successful. I'm going to build more. If you don't like what I have to say, that's cool. I'll just take it elsewhere. There's no hard feelings. There's no negativity. It's just me knowing what I bring to the table and then saying, yeah, but this doesn
• 43:25
  Your boundaries are beautiful. I love you. Thanks, Kelly. Love you, too. And I'm excited for your app. When it comes out, let me know, and I'll promote the fuck out of it. In the next month, it'll be out. We're damn close. I got propeller heads sitting. We're programming them right now. But it's going to be a lot about...
• 43:40
  personal development, positivity, maybe we'll peel off an area for you for the love relationships. You're a huge proponent of texting isn't an indicator of interest and that everyone has both avoidant and ancient attachments in them. What is the most important thing when it comes to dating?
• 44:00
  The most important thing when it comes to dating, you mean just overall? Yes. I would say healthy communication. Healthy communication is literally the most important fucking thing. Every time people ask my partner, what is it like to be in a long-term relationship? He's like, it's one giant conversation. We're always talking. We're always touching base. It'll be to the point where, like yesterday, he saw me upset after a call and he came in and he was like...
• 44:21
  Do you need me? How can I support you? Is there anything going on? I exploded on him and then I stopped and I said, I'm so sorry, babe. That was, I misguided that. I was, the call was shitty. I apologize. I never meant to explode on you. And he was like, it's okay, babe. That's why I'm here to support. We talk all the fucking time. How are you feeling? What's coming up for you? How can I support you? What can I do? Everything that's happening in the world right now. We've had many a fucking talks about it. I just...
• 44:44
  That to me, it's like you, yes, chemistry is important. Compatibility is important, but communication, if you don't have that, my sister's been married for 20 years, same thing. She's like, if you don't have opening communication, if you're scared to open up, if you're scared to say something, say goodbye to your relationship. It's just, then it's not, your needs will never be met.
• 45:00
  Microphone drop. Here's mine. Honesty, loyalty, communication. And then there are two more things. They have to be working on their mind and their body. Because if they're not, I'm going to pass them by. Or they're just not going to like me. That's it.
• 45:16
  My mom has always said, when you're working on yourself and somebody is not even on the track, it's too far. There's too much of a divide. They're never going to be able to catch up to you because it takes time. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm with you. It's like consistency, reciprocity, feeling seen, heard, and understood, and feeling safe, emotionally safe, not just physically, and being able to communicate. If you have those things, you can have, here's the reality. You can have, if there's somebody that embodies these characteristics, you can build a relationship with a lot less data points than we actually think you need.
• 45:45
  Wait a minute. Unpack that. English. I know what you meant, but say that in English. You know what I mean? So pretty much what I'm saying is a lot of people think, oh, I need so much to be with a partner. And it's like, there's actually studies that show you actually don't need that much to be in a relationship with somebody if you have those basics. If you're seen, heard, and understood, which means you can communicate effectively, you have a safe space, you open up, and that you are reciprocal and consistent with another partner –
• 46:09
  You can be pretty incompatible in a lot of ways while still having a beautiful relationship. There was just a study done. I think they looked at like over a thousand married couples and almost all of them said the same thing. I didn't end up with the person I thought I wanted, but I got exactly what I needed because the person that you think you want is very rarely the person that's actually going to be the one that you need, which is my partner. He is not my type. He is not the guy that I normally go for. He's very handsome. Don't get me wrong, but he's not the like cookie cutter. I always date, but he is everything I need and more because a man like him, you don't meet that every day.
• 46:40
  rewind that and play it again. And that's beautiful. And I, I love that for you. And I love that for him. And I will, I'm going to throw this shameless plug. I am ordained. And if you ever do get to the point where you're going to married, I'll come do it for you. The shit that'll come out of my mouth. It will be so beautiful. The last one I did,
• 46:58
  the everybody cried so i i just the things that i'm not shy and i i just i'm so happy for you i feel it i feel you through the monitor so when it comes to boundaries and standards and dating what is your advice to someone that came out of a toxic relationship and over corrects oh and how long should someone be single before jumping back in
• 47:19
  I mean, I think the single thing, it's hard because everyone's so different. I don't have like a timeline, but I would say I want you to be able to, I always think if you're about after a breakup, how to get into a new one. Are you, have you processed through the breakup? Have you accepted what happened? Have you taken accountability for your part and theirs? Are you still hung up on them? Are you excited about dating? Are you looking forward to it? Have you learned that you're going to release control to the outcome? Have you learned that rejection is part of dating? Yeah.
• 47:43
  Exactly. Most people are going to go, no, but yet they still go out and fucking date. But it's like, listen, it's okay. The mistakes you learn are how you're going to learn. I could say it to you all day. You know, as well as I do, we could say it all day. Go and learn, go and fucking learn. And then come back and let me know how you're feeling. Learn for God. You keep doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting a different result. I just want to choke some people. I certain friends. I can't even know. I just can't. I can't talk relationship with you because you're just doing the same thing.
• 48:13
  Yeah, 100%. And so it's like that to me, what was the question prior to that? I know that it was, it was, what do you know about toxic relationship? Someone that came out of a toxic relationship and then says, I absolutely don't want that person. You see the over correct happening that, you know, we jumped to the other side.
• 48:32
  The pendulum. What I see with that, it's the same as people that are like, I don't trust people. It's like, no, what happened? You don't trust yourself. You're coming out of a toxic relationship, which means you're not in touch with yourself. You probably never were while you were in it. That's why it was so toxic was because you didn't have boundaries, standards, non-negotiables. So what I would start to do is look at what didn't work in that relationship. That's how you start to establish your boundaries. Boundaries are what you're no longer willing to accept.
• 48:55
  So if I was with, like for me, I was with, I had inconsistency all my life. My number one non-negotiable and boundary was somebody consistent. The person I go to sleep to is the person I want to wake up to. Not, we had this amazing date and then the next day they're cold and then they pull away. I was like, I don't have time for this shit. You hit me every time I hear that because you repeated every show and I love that. And I, I, what that says to me is I want, uh,
• 49:16
  emotionally available emotional availability which is consistency to me show me that you have big girl panties and can have big girl conversations and and not taking things so fucking personally because i think a lot of women they're like oh well but you know i shouldn't have to say it to him and it's like guess what bitch yes you do yes you do i'm not a mind reader
• 49:40
  People can't read your mind. I say that I'll see my partner half the time. He's like, I had no idea you were upset. And I'm like, I know. I thought I was huffing and puffing enough, but it's like, no, people can't read your mind. And sometimes, listen, the hypervigilance is a different story. If you're super anxious and you're constantly asking your partner if they're okay, that's also not okay. But it can't be where you're just like, it's like, I hate if you wanted to, he would. It's the stupidest fucking saying. You're expecting that somebody is going to automatically just know what you want. And if not, well, they just might not want it bad enough. It's like, grow the fuck up.
• 50:08
  It's not trusting themselves enough to say that vulnerable conversation because they might get shot down. But you've said it a thousand times. You either get what you need or get what you want. What you need is going to be, is this person for you or not? What you want was they're going to fucking love you. They're going to freaking come closer. If you want them.
• 50:25
  Exactly. You'll have a great relationship. If it's not what you need, well, then it's going to be, then you'll have clarity. Perfect. The other question was, was a bait that you didn't pick up on. And it was, uh, do you ever see anything where somebody just gets out of one relationship and jumps to another and that that's healthy?
• 50:44
  Could you win the lottery? Sure. Would I bet on it? No. So I'm not betting on the gimp horse. Could it happen? Sure. I've seen people, but typically speaking, it's less that they're toxic and more usually like somebody just acknowledging like this isn't the right connection for me. But no, normally in the work that I do, the people that I meet, I have yet to meet somebody that had a super toxic relationship and entered another one after that ended up being really healthy. The reason being is because the person that was in the toxic relationship,
• 51:13
  needs to heal and do shit before they can become the person that'll be in a secure relationship. I'm not even meaning a toxic relationship in any relationship. How could you go from one to the next without any form of healing and expect to get there?
• 51:26
  The only time that happens is if you've been wanting to break up with this person for like a few months and you've already processed and gone through it. You know what I mean? Like, because you have to remember the person that's doing the breaking up, they've already been distancing themselves. They've thought about it. They've been thinking about it. They've been processing it. They've accepted it. They're now at this point just figuring out how to do it. That's why the person that gets dumped is usually like, what? It's like, well, yeah, you probably just didn't see this coming. But that person's been...
• 51:50
  they're further along on the healing process. That's why, yeah, they could go out, get back on the dating apps and meet someone a month later because they've already been over this. Whereas the person who's being dumped, no.
• 52:00
  Brilliant. You're brilliant. We're going to switch to you personally because there's so much more to you than just this. And thank you for all that. And it was fantastic. And we're going to do more together and anything I can do to support you, I will. Let's switch and go because you don't get to the level of success that you're experiencing currently by winning a quiz show. Are you still, you're still running the software clothing line. You mentioned a couple of years. How can the people check it out? And I just realized software and tech guy. Yeah.
• 52:29
  I love it. There's a software. It's obviously spelled W-E-A-R-E. This is A-W-A-R-E. So it's just cute. It was so meant to be. And I want to direct everybody to it's www.waresoftware.com. Correct?
• 52:45
  Yeah. Wearsoftware.com. Yeah. I just, I started it, you know, after my mom got sick and I wanted to do something that was special and I, it's the softest, coziest thing that we've ever, I've ever created. It's all made sustainably in LA. So it's all within five miles of each other. Everything's done locally. I wanted to create something that was just different. It's more fitted. It's more tailored. It's more for people that are athletic and it's.
• 53:06
  My baby, it's something that, you know, I'm definitely getting to that point that I was like, I think it's time to sell the company soon just because I really want to focus on other stuff. But for now, I am still, you know, running my running the show and keeping it going.
• 53:18
  There's one picture of you way down on the bottom of the website and you look beautiful. So you should model more because I think you're gorgeous. Your body's perfect and your mind is just ravishing. I just love everything about you. Tech guy is a, he's done the work and he deserves it. So I'm happy for him. I'm curious, what reaction do people have when you walk into a room? Depends on if I've opened my mouth yet or not.
• 53:50
  If I've spoken into usually like a, cause I say fuck so often that they're just like, Oh, um, I usually get, it depends. It really depends. Usually I get the first thing they start to look at are all my tattoos. And I start to get the, you know, I've had, especially in business meetings, I've had it where I remember, uh, when I started the company, it was, I had a business partner and I had, it was four guys in the room and then me. And I kept saying. Yeah.
• 54:12
  the waistband's not sitting right. Like, I know how the fuck this needs to fit. And I was like, it's not right. It's not right. I had worked in sales, by the way, as well. I was in wholesale for five years. So I'm like, I know the market. And they said, why don't you step outside and let the boys handle this? We'll call you back in if we need a woman's opinion on things. Oh, I bet you they're whatever will.
• 54:29
  Yeah, they all got fired. And I'm still running the company. So yeah, it depends. I think most people, now it's been strange because to me, I'm a nobody. Who the fuck am I? So I have a platform. It's been weird going out and people being like, oh my God, it's you. I'm like, what? Hold on. Look at that humility.
• 54:46
  You're fabulous. I want to point that out. You have 300,000 followers. People freaking are seeking for your advice. And yet you just said, who the fuck am I? You are. I see you. You matter. And you're making a difference in this world. So you go girl.
• 55:05
  Thanks, Kelly. But yeah, I just, I have siblings that have humbled me the fuck down. So if I even think I'm anybody, they bring me back. But yeah, no, it's been even just TikTok. TikTok is almost a fucking 700,000 people. And I'm like, I don't even know how all this happened. But here we are. So yeah, it's been, it's been interesting. It's been hard for my core beliefs. It's been hard for me. I've been doing my work. I've been trying to accept this and it's just...
• 55:27
  It's weird, isn't it? I was in LA and I got out of my car to turn in my rental and the guy's like, oh, I follow you. I walked into a restaurant in Huntington Beach, California.
• 55:42
  some, this couple says, man, the alpha male just walked in. And I was like, are you guys making fun of me? They're like, no, no, no. We can feel your energy. And they're like, what, what do you do? And I was like, well, I own an it company and I do this. I'm an influencer. So she's, I don't even know what that means, but she, she's like, oh, we want to follow you. They pull up and go, oh, we already follow you. So it's very surreal. My daughter gets, she gets like, dad, you're famous. I'm like, you know, I don't care about any of that. I just, I want to donate the million dollars of charity.
• 56:09
  And that's all that matters until I get there. Then we'll start fricking doing accolades. You know, I don't need, I have two homes. I have two boats. I have two cars. I have everything I need. I'm not going to go and get a jet. I don't need it. I have Delta. I can fly Delta. They're great to me. I don't, I don't need a bigger house. Everything I need, I have. So let's switch more to you. What gets you out of bed in the morning?
• 56:40
  Honestly, I think my excitement too. Nowadays, it's to help people. I fucking love what I do. I get so excited to wake up and be like, okay, cool. Who do I get to interact with today? I love doing podcasts more than fucking anything on this planet. I have a call soon with fucking Spotify to talk about just how I can grow and things I could do. And it makes me feel so full that I get to be able to do something I love and actually
• 57:06
  Because for so long, I felt like I was a snowflake that like, oh, there was nobody else like me. And oh my God, I'm the only one. And so now to be able to create a community that's safe where it's like, hey, you're not, you're not crazy. There's something wrong with you. You just have some shit that we need to work through. It's been, it's been cathartic for me. It's been beautiful. And it literally gets me out of bed because it's also helping me, you know, my mom as an immigrant had a very, very, very, very, very shitty childhood and life and was in an orphanage and
• 57:33
  The poor woman, like I fucking love my mom. And honestly, I do all this because my goal is to buy her house. So I'm hustling and. You'll get there. Let me tell you one more thing that you're going to love. This cycle of abuse will end with you. And as I watch my daughter, I get she doesn't have to worry about a freaking thing. Nothing. And she's loved. And you should see all these kids at 14. She's beautiful. And these kids are into drinking and drugs and boys. And she's not.
• 58:03
  And it's like, yes, I did something right. So that is why I do this, because she's never going to experience anything like I did. And when you get there and you get to live your childhood through her, relive it.
• 58:18
  it's going to bring up a whole new, you'll be calling and going, Kelly, you were right. What is this? What the fuck do I do? What is this feeling? Because when you see her doing things that you didn't get to do, man, she just went to homecoming. She's a freshman in high school. Went to homecoming and we're at this mansion and there's all these people that know me and recognize me from this stuff and everyone wants to talk to me and I'm like, this is about her. I don't care about it. She's in a beautiful dress. I didn't do that shit.
• 58:45
  I freaking was just melted my heart. So we're coming up against it. And I still have more questions because I want to know about, I want the listeners to know about you. What's your biggest fear? The first one that comes to mind is my biggest fear aside from cockroaches. Fear failure. Failure has to be my biggest fear just because I, I put so much pressure on myself to kind of do what I was just saying, like to get my mom the house and to, you know,
• 59:12
  My dad only, all of our life, we only got accolades if we did well. That's how he respects you is if you're successful in business. And I think for me, my biggest fear is that I'm going to, that this is all a fluke, you know, and that one day I'm going to be, I don't know, you know, fine much, but that one day someone's just going to be like, fuck her. And, you know, that'll be it. And that I would have failed. And that I think is something that I work through that every day. And especially now with...
• 59:42
  shit going on. Just remembering like stay in your lane, do your best. If you fail, this doesn't mean you failed. It means that it just didn't work out in the way that you're hoping to. It's okay. It happens, but that is my ultimate fear.
• 59:54
  You can't beat somebody that never gives up. And I can see it in your eyes. You will never give up. So just failure is feedback. It's an overused word. Sometimes you have to freaking pivot. Sometimes things do come to an end. But ultimately, the only way you really fail is by giving up. And that's defeatism. So I think people think failure is defeating and they're two different things. So let's flip on the other side. Define success for me.
• 1:00:22
  Success for me is fulfillment, ultimately. Like success doesn't mean that I have this much money in the bank or that I have this. It means that I'm fulfilled in the life that I'm living. That to me, I mean, I'm so, if that means my house is paid off and I don't have to worry about food, then I'm successful. So I want to be as fulfilled in my life as possible and be able to provide for the people that I love and be able to help others. That means I was successful. And that doesn't mean that I have to make a certain amount. I love that you didn't say happy. So define happiness for Sabrina.
• 1:00:51
  Oh God, I fucking hate when people say happy. I'm like, what is that? Happy. That's why I'm like, I'd rather be fulfilled and be enjoying my life and feel pleasure than be happy because I'm happy for about three minutes and then something else happens and I'm not. So if I'm running after that fleeting moment,
• 1:01:07
  You always know when I'm happy because I got an evil smirk on my face because I'm up to something. And everybody always knows that. I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, doing something. So we'll move on. What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:01:24
  Best advice I've ever received. So probably something from my mama. I think the two sayings that she's always said to me, you were good before them, you'll be good after. And remember somebody, and that has always helped me because she'd be like, you were good before them. Like, you'll be fine if it doesn't work. And I'm like, oh, yeah. And then they're in addition to your life, not instead of. That's always been something I remember. And I'm like, right, this person's not making my life. They're in addition to my life. They're part of my life. They're not making it.
• 1:01:50
  I always say that whoever I do date, I want them to make my life, to be an addition to my life. That's funny you said that. I've never dated somebody who made my life better. Because I was chaos. Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  I was gonna say, and this is the first time I have where, and it's not, it's not in the obvious where we're like, oh, I'm going to make them a better person. It's like, no, just being supported and being loved in a certain way and being able to communicate. I've become, same with him. He's like, I have become such a better version of myself because we both know how to communicate versus in other relationships where you're just like, this sucks. I don't want to change who you are, but by being authentic and being safe, that will allow both of us to grow. No, it's calming too. Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  I just, I aspire to it. And I, and when I, when that happens, then you'll see me do even more Epic things and it's, and I'm going to do it regardless whether I'm with somebody or not, it's going to happen, but it's, it's, I love hearing, I love seeing people happy. I love it. And the two of you are beautiful and, and I love seeing the dog. And so sorry about your dog. I know it's been a long time, but I have a little, little Yorkie. That's this big, that just, he, I go on gratitude walks daily.
• 1:02:58
  With him. Yeah. And those are important to me. I just, I remind myself like, hey, I'm alive. I'm above ground. It's a, we forget that, you know, the Latin word, memento mori, we're all going to die. We keep forgetting that. And we're going to spend half of it bitching and pissing and moaning. That's the only guarantee we have is that we're all going to die. Everything else, who the fuck knows? What's the worst advice you've ever received? What?
• 1:03:27
  If he wanted to, he would. I fucking hate that shit. I think just the worst advice is probably just like. Size matters. Just like the. It does though. I love you. You're the best. I would say probably, yeah, the, probably the worst is get over it.
• 1:03:47
  When people say shit like that, I'm like, come on, just move on. Just get over it. And it's like, stop discrediting people. Stop telling people, like, stop discrediting their emotions or God, stop crying. Things like that where I'm like, why are you stopping something natural that needs to be released? Instead, encourage that and say, hey, I'm here to support.
• 1:04:05
  That feeling is healing. So that getting over it is not even part of it. Two last questions. Number one is how can the listeners and I best support you? We've got so many things. Is it one-on-one? Is it go to software? What's the best thing to support Sabrina right now?
• 1:04:21
  Honestly, I think the one-on-ones are great. If you need help, I'm here to help. Same with the questions, but really it's listening to Do the Work podcast and leaving a fucking review. That's it. I'm going to leave one for you too. But like, that's it. I'm trying to grow the podcast. And for me, I'm like, just follow Do the Work on Insta and just leave a review. That is invaluable because then, you know, we can get ads, we can do all this fun stuff. I can start making more episodes, do twos. I
• 1:04:45
  I can have you on the podcast because I need to schedule more people. But just doing all this fun shit. And that's, to me, the most supportive way. And yeah, if you want to buy software, feel free. That's a cozy thing. It looks great. It's so fucking comfy. But I just like to give options for people because it's like it doesn't always have to be in a monetization way. Sometimes it really is just leave a fucking review. And that's all. Ideally, five stars. I listen to you. You're my plane ride because I go back and forth to Detroit to Florida. So I listen to you on the plane and I just start...
• 1:05:13
  Freaking laughing because I identify with you. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you feel compelled to share? No, we've had a great – this has just been a fun conversation with you more than anything. So I think we've just gotten – I think for me at the end of the day, I just want people out there to know like, no, you're not going to be fucking single forever. But if you keep repeating the same patterns and you keep living in that same space –
• 1:05:37
  well, then you will keep receiving and allowing the same shit that you have. So if you want to make changes, you got to be the change if you want to start seeing change.
• 1:05:45
  I say a lot thoughts are magical lies and I giggle to myself. I'm like, if I tried to stay single for the rest of my life, it would be impossible. Like literally. So I think you're beautiful. I'm going, anything I can do, I'm going to help. There was another thing I was going to say, but we're going to wrap it up. And I'm going to say, please rate and share this podcast. Also, I do my best to respond to all the comments on all social platforms. So if you want to see more of something or less of something, leave a comment.
• 1:06:10
  Each and every episode is sponsored by National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life. Thank you for listening. Please rate and subscribe to Harder Than Life, and let's take this to the next level. Get connected at the links below.