Latest / What’s Up, Wake / The Greatest of All Time: Meet Wake County’s Goats with Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary and Goats on the Go
Transcript
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[00:00:54] Speaker 3: Winter is coming. Make sure your car is ready with Cary Car Care. Family owned and operated, they'll keep you safe on the road all season long. Give us a call at 919-380-0040 to schedule your winter service today. Or visit us at carycarcare.com. Cary Car Care, it must be right or we'll make it right. [00:01:55] Speaker: Today's episode is gonna go down as the GOAT, and will surely be anything but baa-ring. We're talking all things goats. As some of you may know, I'm the adoptive mother of two rescue goats, so this topic is close to my heart. I'm doing something a little different this week and taking on this topic from two angles. . Talking with someone who works with goats and then with someone who rescues them. My first guest is Steven Paul, director of Goats on the Go, a business that brings a four-legged furry workforce to properties to clear unwanted brush and weeds. If you've ever looked at an overgrown patch of land and thought, "There's goat to be a better way to deal with this," well, there is. Basically, the goats show up, go to work, and eat their way through the job. No gas-powered equipment required. These hardworking goats are bleating the competition and have a real appetite for success. [00:02:51] Melissa: Welcome, Stephen. Thank you so much for being here today. It's a pleasure. I'd like to know, first of all, I notice your accent. I don't think you're from the Southern United States. Yeah, what gave that away? Can you tell us where you're from and how you came to, to come here and start Goats on the Go? Yes. Well, I'm originally from London, England, and spent the first good chunk of my life there, and in my late 20s I decided that I'd like to go on adventure and I moved to Australia. [00:03:18] Stephen Paul: Um, it's pretty easy to move to Australia if you're under 30. And I moved there with my IT, um, qualifications and and I worked in corporate IT there for numerous years. Had a great time in Australia. Um, but was really getting, um, frustrated with being behind a computer all day long, and I li- I'm quite a physical person, and, um, I was also kind of, um, anticipating the AI revolution a long time ago. Mm. And, and I was like I, I, "I would like to leave IT as a career." Um- I will say that this might be one career that is gonna be safe from IT. It might be. The robots may take it eventually. The robot goats. Yeah, eventually, but I think we're good for the mile, for a while. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Um, so, so the, I put in, you know... It took a long time to figure out what I wanted to do next, and got inspired by the regenerative farming movement, um, specifically using animals to regenerate landscapes by not letting them overgraze and moving them on a regular basis. Mm-hmm. And so I was originally looking at doing a sheep or a cattle farm somewhere in, um, maybe in Australia, but I was also looking at the US. Mm. So, um, I I traveled around Australia for a little bit and then decided I'd like to leave and move to the US because the climate is much, s- more stable here. And, um, and- And a lot less spiders and snakes ... l- There are. There's a few- ... but not as m- you know, not quite as many- Yeah ... and not quite as varied. Mm-hmm. Um, and yes there's a lot of good rainfall and sunshine at this, um, side of the country, and decided to settle here. And, um, originally- like I said, I was looking at cattle and sheep, but, um, it is challenging to make a living on a small farm when you're just raising, you know, a few hundred sheep or a few hundred cattle on a small li- acreage. And because I'm an IT geek, I was, um really interested in virtual fencing for livestock, because if you're gonna move livestock regularly, it actually will help if you can, um, move them virtually rather than building fencing. So I was following the latest technology, um, whilst I was traveling, and got connected to the only company in the world that I still believe do, um, virtual fencing for small ruminants like sheep and goats. That's a company called Nofence based in Norway, and through them got connected to the goatscaping scene here in the US, and realized that there's actually a really, um, awesome opportunity to make a, a thriving business based on, um, regenerative l- um, farming, but also, um, moving goats around instead of from pasture to pasture, why not from customer to customer? [00:06:01] Melissa: I mentioned that I, I have goats myself. Goats have so much personality. I'm wondering about your, your herd for lack of better word. Mm-hmm. I wanna know e- I wanna know everything. Sure. Where they live. Mm-hmm. How many you have. Yep. Do they all have names? All of the above. Okay. Well, when they're not working we have two home bases around the Pittsburgh area. [00:06:31] Stephen Paul: Um, so- Hmm. Okay ... So most of the time, most of my goats during the grow- growing season are... They never see a home base. So they are just going from project to project to project. Mm-hmm. And so, but they all come home for winter. And now we might have the odd winter project, but the majority of my goats come home roughly around November, December, and then we will, um, use hay to feed them and take them through the winter. [00:06:57] Melissa: Mm-hmm. Um, and I h- I- How do they feel about that change? Are they fine with it, going from all the brush and the yummy stuff to just the plain old hay? I mean, it just depends on the hay. Um- Yeah ... and we're still working on getting a reliable hay source- Mm-hmm ... and it, and this, it, the drought hasn't helped. [00:07:15] Stephen Paul: Um, and- Definitely, yeah ... we are, um, we're in the process of sourcing some hay from interstate. Um- Mm-hmm ... and and so it is, it is a challenge I'm sure for so many farmers, um, at the moment or in- Yeah ... in these parts. Um, but to answer your other questions, we have around 150 goats. Um, about 60 or so are female and hopefully getting pregnant as we speak. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that means that we'll, we'll have anywhere from 50 to 100 babies hopefully born in the wintertime. Um, and, um, and we name a fair bunch of them, but because we have so many, we c- we don't name all of them. Mm-hmm. We tend to name the ones that stand out. Um- That have the, the big personalities. They've either got the big personalities, they've got a unique look. Oh, yeah. Um- Yeah ... you know, something that, that, that, that sparks, um, a name. Mm-hmm. And so yes, we have our, we have our famous bottle babies that that all our customers like to pet, um, 'cause they are equal opportunity, um, you know, affectionate goats. [00:08:11] Melissa: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Goats are very affectionate, and, and they really do have a, a big personality- Mm-hmm ... for the most part. Sometimes they're grumpy. But for the most part, they're just sweet, very lovable animals. That's true. Mm-hmm. They are. They are. So what does it look like... What does your average day look like? Are you... You're not taking a- all 150 goats to a project, right? Are you splitting them up- Mm-hmm ... and going to different locations? Yes, exactly. Okay. So right now, for example, we have three herds on the go. Um, and so s- and we've had as many as five on the go at any one time- Mm ... when it's super busy, and, um, you know, we might, that might be split between a herd of eight goats in a small backyard. [00:08:50] Stephen Paul: Then there might be another 20 in another backyard, and then there might be another 50 in a big kudzu project. And so it's, it, it... And the backyards range from three days to five days in length, and then these bigger projects can take numerous weeks. We just dropped 45 goats-ish at Coastal Credit Union, um, and in, um, North Raleigh, Northeast Raleigh, and they'll be there for a good two or three weeks working away. [00:09:16] Melissa: And you guys, I read recently that you had a, a big job at Dix Park- Mm-hmm ... clearing out areas, and also the tiger rescue. That's right. Tell us about that. Yeah, so Dix Park was just a, a, a great connection with the city of Raleigh. So we did two projects there last year. We've done two projects, um, this year as well, and and so that's been wonderful. [00:09:38] Stephen Paul: And then, um- So the, the tiger rescue is interesting because, you know, when you have this many goats, not all of them are going to make it, and some goats pass away unfortunately. And so the tiger rescue is actually relatively close to our home bases. Mm-hmm. So ra- Oh, that's right. You're both... Are, are they in Pittsboro too? They are. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so rather than if a goat happens to sadly pass away, um, for whatever reason, rather than, um, just letting it go to, go to... Well, it wouldn't go to waste. There'll always be a, a predator, I guess, to pick up a goat. Mm. But you know, the tiger rescue r- are grateful to receive, um pa- animals that have passed away. So we started taking some of our goats there. Mm-hmm. Thankfully not too many. But, um, w- they they kind of were like, "Well, we'd like to have some of your live goats actually come and and graze around the the cages," because it's actually kind of disruptive for the machinery for the tigers f- when they have to do their weed whacking and main- and, um, and vegetation management. So they were really interested in, um, a, a quieter, more chill way of, um, of doing this. And and it made some great viewing as well. How did the tigers react to having the goats so close by, yet so far away? They can't get to 'em, so. They can't. Yeah. And it was, it was fascinating. We have video, um, as well of this, and it's on our socials, of the tigers just being incredibly curious- Yeah about the goats. And the goats were also a little bit nervous, but- I'm sure, yeah ... yeah. But they w- you know, we t- we've, um... W- these goats are seasoned now. We can take them around. We can take them to backyards where there's dogs around. And, um, a lot of our customers ask, "Oh, you know, the dog can't get to the goat, but our dog might be barking at the goats." Mm. "Will, will that bother them?" And I say to them, "They'll, the goats will react." Yeah. But eventually when they realize that- They're safe. They'll just get on with what they were doing. Mm-hmm. They'll, they'll, they'll pay no mind. Um, but the tigers, and particularly the tiger keepers, were thrilled to have the goats there because the tigers struggle for stimulation. Oh, yeah. And this was... They call it, I think it's something, enrichment is the word they use. Yes. Um, and so this was just such an amazing, form of enrichment for some of these tigers. Will this be a relationship that you'll get to go back and, and keep going to work at- That- ... the tiger rescue? That's the intention. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, it is, I mean, it's such an unlikely pairing. I know. Well, it may- It makes a lot of sense now that you're saying it, but it's a very unlikely pairing. It was, and it was like, it was so fascinating, and, um, and it was great to be around the big cats for a few weeks ourselves- Mm-hmm just to admire these amazing animals whilst we were working there checking on the goats. Um, and and the, you know, it caused a, a media stir, so there was quite a few new- news organizations came down to, like, cover it- Yeah ... as well. Yeah. what can a goat do that a lawnmower or a weed eater cannot do? Mm-hmm. Good question. So goats are fantastic at harming plants in a way that, um, weed eaters can't. The main way they do that is they consume a lot of the seeds, um, that they, the plants are creating, and there's various studies online showing that a majority, not necessarily all of them, but a majority of the seeds get, um, deactivated when they pass through a goat's gut. Hmm. And so when you're weed whacking, you're actually flinging seeds around. Oh. And so a lot of people notice that when they trim a lot, then it comes back with a fury next year or, or later in the year. [00:13:06] Melissa: That's so interesting. Mm-hmm. I would have never thought that. [00:13:08] Stephen Paul: That's right, and it's amazing the impact that goats can have on an area even after just one grazing. Now, kudzu's a different beast, so, um, we just had our goats on some kudzu, and we're gonna be bringing them back in a few weeks. Um, it doesn't look like they have a big impact after one grazing 'cause kudzu is so, um, so fast-growing. But- [00:13:29] Melissa: Yeah, and invasive, [00:13:30] Stephen Paul: right ... and invasive. Yeah. But lots of other species that are not as fast-growing as kudzu but still invasive, um, we can go back to that area and j- even a year later and see, wow, we know where the goats were and then no other treatment has been done. [00:13:45] Melissa: Do you have, I, I, I'm gonna s- ask this question. I feel like the answer is already Tiger Rescue. Mm. But maybe there are other examples of interesting or unusual places that you have been, gotten a request to come. [00:13:58] Stephen Paul: Mm-hmm. And, and, and actually gone as well? [00:14:01] Melissa: Yeah, no. Yeah. Well, or just a request even that you turned down and said- Yes "Yeah, this is not a great idea." [00:14:06] Stephen Paul: Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, some of them have been, um, let's say, I think we've had a request from someone in Greensboro for bringing the goats to I think it was a painting event. They wanted to, to bring the goats in so they could be, you know, painted. Oh, okay. Not the goats painted themselves, but- Yes, [00:14:24] Melissa: yes [00:14:24] Stephen Paul: but the, the, so the goats can be still, if they can be. Mm. And, and the, and the, um, the artists start, um, drawing the goats. [00:14:31] Melissa: Mm-hmm. [00:14:31] Stephen Paul: Or painting the goats. Um, and when I mentioned that you know, goats aren't toilet trained, and we don't- Oh, yeah ... provide diapers. They're [00:14:40] Melissa: definitely not toilet trained. [00:14:42] Stephen Paul: So, so they, they were like, "Ah, that might not work." Um, and it's funny because- Didn't [00:14:47] Melissa: think about that. [00:14:48] Stephen Paul: No. And in fact, we're needing to deal with this in a couple of weeks time, because we've been invited to be one of the feature, um, stalls at the Southern Ideal Home Show at the fairgrounds. And we're bringing a couple of goats down. Yes. And they're providing sort of like a picket fence area f- for the, for the goats so that people can pet- Mm um, some of our, some of our famous goats. And, um, but we're working with them to figure out a way to deal with all the mess that they will ne- inevitably make. Um, yeah. [00:15:16] Melissa: But goat ... Not to get too into it, but goat excrement. Mm-hmm. I don't think I've ever even said that word in my life. Mm-hmm. But goat excrement- [00:15:24] Stephen Paul: Yeah [00:15:24] Melissa: is not gross like, um, cows- It's not ... or horses. It's true. It, and it's not smelly. [00:15:30] Stephen Paul: It's not. Yeah. It's more the pee. Yeah, that is true. So it's just, it's just- Yeah ... we have to deal with that. Yeah. Um, so we're figuring out the ways to deal with that. Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause I don't really wanna put diapers on my goats. No. No. There's no- Do [00:15:41] Melissa: they make goat diapers? I think- Maybe they do ... [00:15:43] Stephen Paul: they probably make adult diapers that you repurpose or something. [00:15:48] Melissa: We're, this is gonna go down as, as, um, something I never thought I'd be talking about. [00:15:52] Stephen Paul: Yeah, likewise. [00:15:54] Melissa: And, and I, we talked about how goats have such great personalities. Mm-hmm. Do you have any funny goat stories? Maybe any goats that have gotten out? [00:16:04] Stephen Paul: Yes, yes. We've got, we've had a couple of escapes. Thankfully, they, they don't happen very often, 'cause they are stressful, um, depending on the situation. Um- 'Cause [00:16:12] Melissa: they're hard to get back. [00:16:14] Stephen Paul: They're har- they're hard to get back depending on which goat escapes. [00:16:16] Melissa: Mm-hmm. [00:16:17] Stephen Paul: Um, but yes, we did have a goat that was new to us, quite a flighty goat, um, escape from one of our projects. And and we chased her through sort of North Hills area, um, for a good couple of hours. And and we couldn't get her, and we eventually decided to give up. The good thing is, the reason why we can give up is because we have the trackers, so we can see where the goats are- Mm on our phones at all times. [00:16:43] Melissa: Okay. [00:16:43] Stephen Paul: So our plan was to go and get the goat at night, and my employee got, went and got this goat, and actually caught her with hi- with my, another person, and tied her to a tree so that we could get her in the morning. We got her, we put her back in with her, her sisters on this project. She promptly escaped immediately- Right ... again. And and then we could not get her day after day. Um, we tried, and then on the third day or the fourth day, we got a call from animal control- And said I, you know, "Is this your goat?" And, and I was like, "Yes, it is our goat. I'm really glad that you're able to, you know, potentially get it. And, and you have permission to do what you need. You know, m- tranquilize it, et cetera, et cetera." And this woman was like, "You know, we, well, we can't tranquilize it because we need your written permission, but we'll see what we can do." so, so so I said, "Well, give me a call and s- and see what you can do 'cause this goat's hard to get." Um, within 30 minutes she called me and said, "We've got the goat." And I was like, "This is amazing. Well, well done. I'd, I'd love to come and shake your hand." And she's like, "Well, the goat will be at this location, um, a bit later today. You can come and pick her up." So we went over there and, um, and I, and I w- wanted to meet this person because I was, like, really curious to see how she caught the goat. And when I was introduced to her, I realized that I recognized her because I'd been on a date with her- ... um, a year before. And she would've known who I was, but, Oh, yeah. Yeah ... and, and I did know that she worked for animal control, but, um, I didn't piece everything together. [00:18:23] Melissa: Until- [00:18:23] Stephen Paul: And, right at the moment and, Yeah ... yeah. And she, and, but she still gave me a ticket. [00:18:28] Melissa: Oh. Oh, did she really? So is that how that works? [00:18:30] Stephen Paul: Mm-hmm. [00:18:31] Melissa: Oh. Mm-hmm. Okay. [00:18:32] Stephen Paul: Yeah. [00:18:33] Melissa: But, hey, props to her. Oh. She was able to get that goat, and you didn't think it was possible. [00:18:37] Stephen Paul: That ticket wasn't expensive for the work she did- [00:18:41] Melissa: Yeah ... [00:18:41] Stephen Paul: to save, you know, saving our time. That is true. Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:43] Melissa: Yeah. And I'm sure everybody in North Hills ha- got a big kick out of seeing a goat on the loose. [00:18:48] Stephen Paul: Oh, the amount of sightings, you know, must've been. Yeah. Running over Falls of Neuse Road or whatever. [00:18:52] Melissa: Yeah. You never know what you're gonna see- Yeah, exactly ... on an average day in Raleigh. [00:18:56] Stephen Paul: Mm-hmm. [00:18:57] Melissa: I have always heard that, that goats will eat anything. [00:19:00] Stephen Paul: Mm-hmm. [00:19:01] Melissa: But I have two bougie goats- [00:19:03] Stephen Paul: Right ... [00:19:03] Melissa: that are fairly picky. [00:19:06] Stephen Paul: Mm-hmm. [00:19:06] Melissa: They don't eat grass, and I always thought they would at least eat the grass. Mm-hmm. They don't. Um, there's also certain things that goats are not allowed to eat because it can be poisonous to them. That's right. So is there anything your goats won't eat, or do you have to go in and inspect- the area to make sure, like azaleas for example- Mm-hmm ... goats are not supposed to eat is azaleas. Um, and I've learned that the hard way. I had to go get sick from eating just a tiny bite of an azalea before. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so do you... How do you handle that type of thing? [00:19:39] Stephen Paul: Yeah, that is one of our biggest concerns. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I've heard of some goats that people I've heard about who have goats who have learned not to eat azaleas, but as far as I'm con- I'm, my experience goes, um, if I give my goats f- any access to azaleas they would eat them. [00:19:56] Melissa: Yeah. [00:19:56] Stephen Paul: And I've had goats get to azaleas by accident and and, yeah, and get very sick. Mm-hmm. Um, so we are meticulous before we put goats on any project now. Um, I mean, we're, we were trying to be meticulous as as possible r- right from the word go, 'cause we knew about azaleas. Um, and they're very common in these parts. Um, but you know, sometimes a goat will get over a fence. It happened really a lot, much more when I just started, and now it doesn't happen at all- Mm-hmm ... because we know what we're doing. Um, but azaleas are a big problem, so we, we look for those. Not just azaleas, rhododendrons and laurels. They're like, those are the, the main three that can cause issues in these, in these parts. Um- And [00:20:39] Melissa: we have quite a bit of that too, especially- Mm-hmm ... especially azaleas, I think. [00:20:43] Stephen Paul: That's right. Yeah. And, and luckily they stand out. Mm-hmm. Um, so, so we do our best to, um, to, to keep our goats safe. And in terms of what they will and won't eat, luckily my goats love eating grass. Um- Okay ... and, So [00:20:56] Melissa: I do have bougie goats. [00:20:57] Stephen Paul: You do. Um, most of my goats love eating, um, English ivy. Um, some goats don't like that. Mm. I've just got some new goats who I- I'm not convinced they're big English ivy eaters, but thankfully the majority of my goats are big English iv- ivy eaters. Um, goats, in my experience, won't touch periwinkle. And that's one of the just main regular ground covers that that goats won't touch, and thankfully it's not invasive in the way that it climbs trees. Yeah. Um, and, um, and they won't eat, you know, a few other things like yellow crownbeard is one of them, and they're really not big fans, even though they'd be great to... of tree of heaven 'cause it's pretty stinky to them. And, um, yeah, those are the really the main ones. Most of the rest of, um, North Carolina invasives, um, are, are on the goats' menu. [00:21:45] Melissa: . It sounds to me like this is a baa-rilliant- ... business idea. [00:21:49] Stephen Paul: Yeah, it's a g- it's a really good baa-usiness idea. [00:21:53] Melissa: Well, thank you so much for being here today. Mm-hmm. One of these days, I really wanna make a field trip and come watch your goats at work. [00:21:59] Stephen Paul: You'd be most welcome. . If my last guest didn't float your goat, the next one surely will. In my last conversation, we learned how goats can be surprisingly hardworking members of the community. But what happens when a goat needs a little extra care or a second chance? That's where Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary comes in. I'm joined by Jesse Wild and Lauren Cantwell of Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary in Fuquay-Varina, where giving goats a safe place to live has become an udderly important mission. We're going to talk about animal rescue, the personalities behind these adorable faces, and what it really takes to care for a sanctuary full of goats, and why these animals have a way of completely stealing your heart. So let's hoof it over to Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary and get to know the people and goats behind this very special place. Welcome Lauren and Jesse. Thank you so much for coming. And just to be clear, Jesse is the owner of Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary. Lauren, you are the operations manager. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. I might screw that up again, so- Although, with a nonprofit there's no owner. Oh. 'Cause it's, it's a board. That's a good point, yeah. Mm-hmm, yep. True, very true. Okay. Yeah. So you're the, you're the founder. Yes. Exactly. Gotcha. Okay. So we just talked to the guy from Goats on the Go. Mm-hmm. Fascinating conversation. But you guys see goats from a totally different perspective. Can you tell us how you got involved with- Rescuing goats? Yeah, so we both have a bit of a different story. Mm-hmm. Um, I left the corporate world a few years ago to be able to spend more time with my kids. Uh, my husband was traveling more for work, so we just needed that extra support, and I have wanted to work in the nonprofit space for a really long time. It's one of those things that you obviously hope that you can work in that space, but you're not like, "Oh, I'm gonna sit and hold out forever until I find a job in the nonprofit space." Um, I live right down the street from the farm, and I was like, "I have some time now, like, I'm gonna volunteer." And when I reached out to Jesse, she had said that she had a lot of needs. We still have a lot of needs, but At the time she had a lot of needs and needed a lot of help, and I let her know of my background in operations, and she was like, "You know, actually, I do need a lot of help, like, with operations," and kind of brought the role up to me and things like that. So that's kind of how that worked out. I absolutely love animals, so it was just, like, the perfect marriage of things. And I bet your kids love being around the goats too. Oh, my gosh. They love it. Yeah. They're constantly asking about them. Mm-hmm. And yeah, they're, they're four and a half and two and a half, so they just, like, love animals. Oh, it's the perfect age. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and goats are so good around kids too in general. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I've, I've seen a couple mean ones, but- Well, luckily our goats are very used to being around people. Mm-hmm. You know? So having kids around and just people in general is, like, no big deal. I mean, sometimes you'd think- Mm-hmm that they don't even realize we're there. They're like, "Goodbye." Oh, yeah. "I'm gonna do something else." Well, they're busy eating and- Yeah ... yeah. Right, right. And what about you? How did you become involved? Um, so obviously this was not in the plans. Mm-hmm. It just kinda came out of a need, but, um, I retired out of the Air Force i- in 2022 from DC, and in 2023 I moved to Fuquay. And when I was looking at houses, I could see a farm, and I could see some, like, animals, but I couldn't tell what they were. And I was like, "I wanna live near animals." Like- Mm ... I volunteered at, um, Poplar Springs Animal Sanctuary in DC the whole time I was there, and I've just always been an animal lover. Sorry I sound like Marge Simpson right now, but- Yeah, you are- Recovering from a cold ... you're being, you're being interviewed when you have laryngitis. Yeah. Basically. Um, so I, uh, chose this house, and I was like I don't know who the people that live there are, but I'm going to introduce myself and hopefully they're nice and, and let me be friends with their animals. Let you go pet the animals. So after I moved, about a month later I wrote a letter and put it on their, um, front gate, which is off Sunset Lake, and the next day, uh, I got a text and they said, "You're welcome to come meet the goats." Aw. I was there in five minutes. I was there. Yeah. As soon as I got the text. Um, met the goats, learned that I could come any time, so I basically started shopping at Aldi every day and bringing the goats treats every day. Um, about six months later, um, the guy who lived there, his name's Jason, and he is an introvert. Like, he would let me come, but he wouldn't be out there. He'd be hiding. So I really... Yeah. He'd be in the house like- Yeah ... "Nope, when she's gone, I'll hang out with the goats." Um, and they had about 27 goats at the time, and I learned that those were descendants of the original goats that were, um, purchased by or obtained by Mr. Smith, who owned the farm, uh, in the '90s, and those were his descendants. Um, when Mr. and Mrs. Smith passed away, their daughter inherited the land and the goats. Mm. And she asked for Jason to take care of them and the land, and, um, he agreed. He was friends with Mr. Smith for, uh, years before he passed, and, um, so it was a great thing. And so for about 20 years, Jason and the goats lived there in peace and harmony. Yes. And then I show up. Then they got a new, very gregarious- Yeah ... neighbor come move in. Yeah. Yes, then poor Jason answered my letter. Oh, yeah. And, um, so it took about eight months, nine months before I realized that they actually needed a lot of help. Right. Um, you kinda needed a tetanus shot to go to the farm. Just metal on metal. Mm. Dilapidated. Um- Very rusty and, um, you know, just needed a lot of things. And, and so I l- I didn't know much about goats at the time. Learned about those things. Um, and I said, "Hey, can I start a TikTok for us and maybe earn money to pay for things that we need?" He's like, "Do what you wanna do." Mm-hmm. "I don't care." And so, um, we did that, and about six months into starting the Tik- TikTok account, um, Beverly, one of our very pregnant goats, went viral. And I think at this time she has, like, 21 million views on TikTok, and it, um, it got us some publicity. We got into two magazines and a little segment on WRAL. And I was like, "We need to keep this momentum up." Yeah. Why don't we have a goat fest? We partnered with The Fainting Goat in Fuquay. Um, we did Goat Fest. That earned us enough to get a lot of fencing done. And during that time, during that momentum and, like, putting festivals on and realizing how many people loved goats, I was like... asked Jason, like, would he mind if we started a nonprofit, rescued more goats, because it's a 16-acre farm, it had 27 goats. I'm like, "We can have more goats on here." Yeah. You can, you can fit a few more. Challenge accepted. We can have more. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was like, "We can also bring the community here for events." And he was like, "You know me and people." Mm-hmm. He's like, "If you do the face, the facing the people part, I'll do the goat care." "Great. Let's do it, Jason." So we put a board together with basically friends Mm-hmm ... um, willing to step up. And, uh, we formed in 2024, December of 2024. So last year was our first year open to the public. We got all of our public-facing fencing done. Um, and yeah, that's pretty much it. It was all based on needs and seeing that the community actually wanted to interact with the goats, and how much fun the goats were having interacting with people. She's like, "I can't be the only one- No ... hanging out with these goats." I couldn't, I couldn't be selfish. Yeah. They were just- Well, and- ... loving it ... and goats are very lovable. Mm-hmm. But what is something that the average listener would not know about what it takes to care for goats, especially so many. How many do you have now? We have 59 goats. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, I think a lot of times people think that- Because goats are, you know, obviously animals that live outdoors, that they're just kind of fend for themselves and don't need a lot of care. Um, but taking care of goats is, is a lot of work. Mm. Especially when you- whether you have a lot or two. Um, they have special diets that they need to eat. They can't just rely on the grass because there's either not enough or there's so many they're gonna eat it all type thing. Or you have bougie goats like mine that don't like grass. That's right. They will not eat it. Or they get specific about the type of hay they wanna eat. Yeah. Yeah. Once their hay gets wet- Oh, yeah ... they're like, "I'm not eating that." Yeah. Yeah. So, um, it takes, you know, obviously there's the feeding part of hay. They require specific minerals and things like that to have access to, along with safe shelter. You know, like right now they hate the rain. Yeah. So it's raining right now and they all, 59 of them, need to have a place to get undercover. Mm-hmm. So there's that. Um, along with medical expenses, like- Mm-hmm ... just like anyone's pets, like dogs, like things happen unexpected so you need to be able to care for them. Um, they get vaccines, all, all things like that. Trimming hooves. You know, outside of the giving cuddles Yeah ... and things like that that everyone loves to do, and petting, those are kind of the extra things, like the fluffy things that other people get to do. Yeah. Um, on the back end- ... is the It's the dirty part. Yeah. Yeah. It is the dirty part. Mm-hmm. You know? And- And the expensive part- Yep ... too. Very expensive. Because I, it does, yeah, it does add up. It does, yeah. Let's talk about the rescue side of this. Yeah. Mm. Where do you get your goats? There are- Do people just drop them off and say- Yeah. ... "Hey, I need, I need a new home for this goat?" No. No, we do have a surrender intake form. Uh- Okay ... we do have a $250 one-time fee- Mm-hmm ... um, per goat that comes to us. A lot of our goats come from HOAs forming, so that's been a issue. Ooh. Where- That's a very good point I didn't think about. Yeah. Yep. So people might already have- Mm-hmm ... existing goat pets. Mm-hmm. But then an HOA is formed and the goat's gotta go. They gotta go. They have 90 days, and they're like, "Oh, no. What do we do?" Oh. That is sad. Oh, that would be devastating. Yeah. Yeah. So we've gotten about 15 goats from HOAs forming. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of them, like, their owners are older, and one thing people should know is goats should never be alone. They're herding animals, and they need at least one companion. So glad you're saying this. Yes. Yeah. I, I had a neighbor that had only one goat, and the poor thing would just cry all day. I'm sure. I can't imagine. They want to be in at least pairs. Yep. Yes. Yeah. At least one. So their companion would die, and they would have one goat left, and they- Oh they don't wanna, they're too old to get more goats. Yeah. And so they're looking for a place for their goat to have friends. Okay. Um, and really that's, we're at, um, essentially at capacity based on, like, resources and funding. We're at capacity. Mm-hmm. But when people reach out and they have one goat, we will take that goat, because we just don't wanna ever hear about a goat being by themself. I know. It truly is a very sad thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I've al- I've always heard an only goat is a lonely goat. Oh, yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. And honestly, they, thankfully, since we have so many, like, we have so many different personalities, so there's usually- Yeah ... there's usually someone that they can become buddies with. And I mean, goats live a decent amount of time. You're talking- They do. 13- Yeah ... 14, 15 years, depending. Mm-hmm. Our oldest goat is 16 years old. Mm-hmm. So I mean, yeah, it's a big commitment, especially if you, if one passes away and you have one left, and you're like, "Okay, am I gonna get another one and start all over again?" And you know, you're kind of on this, like, timeline- Yeah ... of getting other ones, so yeah, that's definitely. Or bad situations, people who can't take care of goats. We have a goat that came in last year who was- Bless her. They were, family was taking care of her because they found her in a bad situation, and so then she was living in their house with them with a diaper, living with their dogs. She literally had no idea what it meant to be a goat. She had never lived outside a day in her life. Aw. She wanted to be a indoor dog. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So- Yeah ... needless to say, her transition to the farm was a little rough, but- I bet it was. Yeah. But she- I bet it was also entertaining, though. It, yeah. It was. And so those are some, those are other- She's like, "Why am I naked? Why don't I have a diaper anymore?" "What is this?" I know. Yeah. So those are other, like, scenarios- Mm-hmm ... of, you know, people who really care- Yes ... but they maybe cannot take care of their goat anymore, or they can't afford to take care of their goat or something like that, and they care enough to reach out to a place like us to be like, "Do you have any room to, like, take, take my goat?" So. Well, at the end of the day, that, that is true love, is finding- Mm-hmm ... a, a better place for your animal to live- Mm-hmm ... uh, than d- than to keep it in a bad situation. Yes. So. Exactly. The, the truest form of love is to give it up to a rescue. Mm-hmm. You talked about personalities. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about some of the goat personalities that you guys have. Do you, do you have one or two goats that, that rule the roost? Well- Is, is there a, a bossy one, a fun one? Yeah. What- There's all of those. Yeah. All of those. Absolutely. All of those. They're all in... We have them, uh, kind of separated in different, like, paddocks, I guess you would say, based on temperament, personality- That's smart size, uh, things like that. So- Yeah, because some goats are super, super tiny. Mm-hmm. And some of them can get way bigger than- Right ... I ever knew. Right. Right. Yeah. And especially with, like, being a rescue, you know, we will get a goat as a baby and you don't kn- like, you don't know what they're gonna look like Yeah, you don't really know how big it's gonna... It's like- You know- It's like a pig. You never know- Yeah. Right ... how big they're gonna be- That's right ... until they're fully grown When people get, like, a teacup pig and all the sudden- Yes ... it's not. 400 pounds. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like we have some kind of different personalities within, within those. Um, we have a bigger group of, like, 40 goats that is... We kind of have, like, the bigger, like, I like to say the big, like, moms in there. Right. Mm-hmm. Because some of them have babies or came together, and then some of them are just bigger than our other goats 'cause of their breed or that type of thing. Mm-hmm. And they keep everyone in check. Yeah. They're like, "We're not playing around today." Each of our paddocks- ... has, like, a, a ruler in, of the paddock. Yeah. Um, but the main field is, um, a lot of our, like, special cases. Like, either they ha- had a surgery, so they're healing, or they have a hernia, um, things like that. And so that group is probably the most social and gets the most interaction. Um, and- They're the welcoming committee. Yeah. I would say the babies in that group get... You know, they're spoiled rotten. Everybody gives them everything, and they know it. And so they strut their stuff and- When you see a baby goat, what are you gonna do? Yeah. Yeah. They strut their stuff and, like, walk up to everyone and- Yeah ... it's pretty cute. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. Um, I will say I always like to bring up Kevin because he is, he has huge hor- biggest horns. Yes. And he actually thinks he's, like, the protector of every goat on the farm. Mm-hmm. Like, he thinks that he is the dad. Like, he's not their dad. He's n- Yeah. Like, he'll step between you and every other goat. That's good, though. And we're like... Yeah. It's- That's a good thing. But we're like, "Kev, they're, they're okay." Right. Yeah. Yeah. It makes it a little difficult, you know, when you're trying to- Back off, Kevin ... when you're trying to go in and, like- Yeah feed and do things 'cause he thinks he's just... He's a little crazy. But he recently has taken to our... I say taken because he's not been mean. Taken to our, like, smallest goat, Pumpkin. She has been going into their, like, enclosure because she's so small. And- Keeping up with fencing is hard. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Just... Right. It just... And so we have- And so we'll have some, like- ... talked about that ... inlets and our littlest goats- Yeah Oh ... just, like- Can sneak out ... basically go into any paddock they want just depending on- Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah ... what goat and then they'll come back. And pop in and out. But we've been- Yep seeing her in there, and at first you're like He's huge. Kevin's cool. She's little. Oh my gosh. But to be honest, if he was being, if he was being mean, she would get... Like, she would go out. Yeah. She wouldn't go back in there. Mm-hmm. They've just laid down. Yeah. They just hang out. And- She feels safe with him. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which is great because, um, recently... Uh, we've had this problem, but, you know, coyotes and stuff, like, are around- Oh, yeah ... the area. She's so little. I'm like, "You don't need to be back in the back." Like, I worry. Yeah, I would keep her with Kevin. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we're like, he's gonna keep her safe. Mm-hmm. That type of thing. So yeah, the- Kevin is your donkey. He is. Every farm needs a donkey. I w- I've always wanted a donkey. Kevin is the donkey. But donkeys protect all the other animals. Yes, they do. So Kevin is your donkey. They do. Yeah. So is our, our biggest goat, Bo. Mm-hmm. He's, like, 300 pounds. Um- Ooh, he's a, he's a biggun. He's a Boer goat. Yeah, he's huge. And- He's our only boar goat. Yeah. I- We have one boar. I think that he is also the donkey, just 'cause of his size. Yeah, yeah. It's like- He can be intimidating to- He doesn't really do anything. Yeah. But he's that intimidating. He's just there. Nobody wants to cross him just in case. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. Exactly. What does an average day look like for you guys on the farm? Ooh, it changes. I know what it looks like for me with two goats. Yeah. I cannot imagine with 59. Yeah, so because we're an organization, we obviously have fundraising needs, grant writing needs. Mm-hmm. Um, we host events. We deal with merchandise and products. Um, so every day is different because, um, like, for the, for instance, this coming Friday, tomorrow, we have bingo night- Mm-hmm ... with the goats, which is, like, easily our most popular event. Yeah. It's so fun. Um, and then Saturday we're doing a, a market booth at Pride Fest at Holly Springs, and we bring two of our goats with us to that. Um, but this whole week leading up to that is, like, prep for, um, the vendor booth as well as bingo night. Um, and then- Throw in, like, repairs for our- Yeah ... four-by-four that stopped working that- ... helps you take the hay around everywhere instead- Oh, yeah ... of by a wheelbarrow. Yeah. Throw on that. We have, um, we have we call farm chores every Wednesday, where our volunteers, um, can come on Wednesdays to do all the things like cleaning out water bowls, mucking some of the- Right um, some of, like, the stalls that they stay in and any Just like any things like that that our volunteers can do to help with Hoof trimming. Hoof trimming. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, on top of that, we have a, a steward at the farm who actually is a pre-vet student, and so she's out there every day feeding. If she has... Just yesterday- That's a good one to have on your, on your team. A good note, yes. Yeah. Just yesterday we were out helping, like, give vitamin B shots and potentially give any, like, pain meds- Mm ... if someone needs it. So it's, like, all-encompassing of all kinds. And then there's just the random, "Hey, you know, someone broke out of this fence." Yeah. We need to go repair some fences real quick. We need to go over. A lot of fence repairs. Right. Yes. Yeah. So it is, yeah, it's definitely something different every day. Mm-hmm. And when you plan something, it's like, what do you know when people say? Like, "Man plans, God laughs." Yeah. It's like man plan, goats laugh. Like, that's... Yes. Yes. They're just, like, plotting. Yeah, they are. They are just- See Always plotting ... they are plotting. So you mentioned the, the fencing. Are there immediate needs that you guys have right now? Yeah. Because I can imagine- Oh, yeah ... that the expenses really do add up quickly. Oh, yeah. Um- So how, how do we help in other words? Yeah, so we actually, um- We need to replace our perimeter fence. When we were getting up and running, um, and wanting to open to the public, we focused on the people-facing fence, but we did not face, or we couldn't afford to focus on the, um, perimeter, which is still 25 years old and looks... It's the original fence. Um- It looks 25 years old. Yeah. It looks- Mm-hmm ... 25 years old. And with goats like Beau and a couple other big ones, all they have to do is stand on it to try to get leaves. Yes. And it's down. Mm-hmm. Um, so we're constantly... And so we're, we're in the process of replacing our perimeter fence, but we're doing it, like, one segment at a time. And we have an area in the back that's facing the woods, and because of the coyotes, that's, like, a huge priority for us. Mm-hmm. Um, but it, as you know, fence, everything's expensive. Labor- Mm-hmm ... supplies- Mm ... all of that. Um, we do have some, some folks willing to donate their labor, but of course, they work full time. They have lives. They wanna go away, so they do, like, you know, a little bit here, a little bit there. Um, and so yeah. But we're still... I mean, just, just the other day- We've put- ... if someone breaks through, you g- like, find some extra supplies to, like, zip ties some stuff together- Yeah. ... because they will- Zip ties are favorite. Oh, I've used duct tape before. Yeah. Yes. They will just... They will... And it, I think also when you have goats that are multiple sizes- Mm-hmm ... you're like, "Okay, I can keep the big goat out of this one, but oh, can I keep the little goat out?" Yeah. Depending on, like, where it's going into and things like that. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that's definitely, I mean. Yep. So perimeter fences- Yeah ... are a huge issue. And- Yeah, that is the biggest- Um. ... biggest thing. And our driveway, yeah. So tell everybody listening where we can find out more about Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary. Mm-hmm. And in addition to how we can get involved, volunteer, donate, all- Yeah all of the good things. Yep. So our website is pretty robust. We have, um, it's smithfarmgoatsanctuary.org. If you go to, like, our Get Involved section- ... it will pretty much list all of the ways you can get involved. There is something for everybody, whether it's, you can just make a straight donation right on our website. It's really easy to do through, like, Venmo or just, um, Stripe, things like that. And then- You can sponsor a goat. Sponsor a goat. We have only four goats left out of our 59 that need to be sponsored. Um- This year. It's an annual- Yeah, this year. It's an annual thing. Okay. And what's great is that goes towards the hay for that goat for the whole year, um, medical care, things like that, and you also get a private encounter with your goat, so you get to come and spend, like, one-on-one time with your goat and take pictures, do that kinda stuff, so it's fun. And we put your sponsorship info on our website. Mm-hmm. So you can actually go under About Us and, um, meet our herd, and you can meet every one of our 59 goats and learn a little bit about them. Um, and if they're sponsored, it'll tell you who sponsored them for the year. Yeah. Um- That's a great idea. And if they're not- It's a s- yeah. Yeah. It's a fun way to get, like- Mm-hmm ... make sure, to help make sure each goat kind of, like, has what they need type thing. And to stay involved- Yeah ... with the same- Yeah ... the same goat and the same, uh, uh, donator. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. For, you know, for the whole year. Mm-hmm. And you guys were lovely enough to bring me this calendar. Yes. Uh, 2020 s- I can't believe it's gonna be 2027. I know, I c- Right. I can't comprehend those numbers. Full of these cute goats. That is Zoe on the front. So I guess you can, uh, check out the- Yeah. Do you guys have this on your website, too? So we, we don't, um, ship right now. That's one of our biggest downsides. Mm-hmm. We don't have, like, the manpower to do shipping. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, like, those'll be obviously available in our gift shop, as well as, like, vendor, um, booth and things like that. You can also volunteer right on our website. Sign up to be a volunteer. We have a volunteer coordinator who goes through and, like, vets people. Unfortunately, like, you know, you can't just cuddle the goats. Yeah. If you wanna volunteer, we need people who can, like, help work our events, um, help with, like, farm chores and, you know, that kinda stuff. Yeah. You can, um, also contribute by... I mean, obviously on social media. You can find us on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Smith Farm Goat Sanctuary. You can find us. And, like, again, also word of mouth, so, like, sharing about the farm. If you've been to an event or if you just, like, see something that's really cool, like, sharing it with your community is a great way to be able to spread the word. You never know when someone you're telling might be like, "Oh my gosh, I, one, have been wanting to see goats," or, "Oh, I really want to... I'm looking for a unique gift for someone." Mm-hmm. Like, "I'm gonna go and find something." People give our goat sponsorships for Christmas gifts. Just saying. Yeah, that's a great idea too. People who, I find, like especially like kids and stuff, when people are like, "Oh my gosh," like, "I don't want another thing to come in my house." Yeah. Um, or someone who maybe can't get to the farm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. This is a way for them to feel like they have a piece of the farm. You get a certificate and stuff like that. So there are so many ways to be involved, and just reminding people that any dollar you spend, whether it's at an event, at the gift shop, donating, sponsoring a goat, goes directly into the farm. So- Perfect. And we recently started a membership program, and that can be gifted as well. So- Yeah ... we have three tiers, and they come with like a sanctuary T-shirt that Lauren's wearing. Yes. Cute. That's very cute. Yeah. Um- I wore my goat T-shirt today- I love it. Yeah ... for this occasion as well. Thank you. Well, I cannot thank you ladies enough for being here today, telling us about the farm, and for everything you're doing for the goats. Thank you. No, this was wonderful. Thank you for having us. Yes. We appreciate it so much. Absolutely. Our first podcast. Yay. Laura's helping. I'm, I'm glad to be your first. Yeah. Appreciate you. Thank you.