Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Hugh and Dian Harlin Patreon Summer Sampler

Transcript

Hugh and Dian Harlin Patreon Summer Sampler · The Path Went Chilly

0:28
Speaker 1: Welcome to this month's exclusive bonus Patreon minisode for the
0:31
Speaker 1: Pathwin Chili. Once again, Ashley is quite busy, so it'll
0:35
Speaker 1: just be Jeules and I doing the minisod again this
0:37
Speaker 1: month where I share the details of a case that
0:40
Speaker 1: she is not familiar with and she gives off her reactions. So, Jules,
0:44
Speaker 1: have you ever heard about the case of Hugh and
0:46
Speaker 1: Diane Harlan?
0:48
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound familiar.
0:50
Speaker 1: Well, this is a very unique one because it's pretty
0:52
Speaker 1: much two mysteries rolled into one because Hugh and Diane
0:55
Speaker 1: Harlan were a married couple and Diane wound up being
0:58
Speaker 1: murdered in nineteen eighty two, and Hugh became a potential suspect,
1:02
Speaker 1: though there was not enough evidence to implicate him. And
1:05
Speaker 1: then four years later, in nineteen eighty six, Hugh would
1:08
Speaker 1: wound up going missing and he has not been seen since.
1:11
Speaker 1: So people have always wondered are these two crimes connected.
1:15
Speaker 1: Did Hugh's disappearance have something to do with Diane's murder?
1:18
Speaker 1: Did he decide to take off on his own, or
1:21
Speaker 1: could the person who killed Diane killed Hugh many years
1:24
Speaker 1: after the fact. It's pretty much our mystery because we
1:27
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to either of them, and we
1:29
Speaker 1: don't know if the respected cases are connected.
1:32
Speaker 2: As much as anytime we cover our murder, it's sad.
1:35
Speaker 2: I do love a mystery within a mystery, and it
1:39
Speaker 2: makes you think about if they're not connected, what is
1:41
Speaker 2: the probability that if Diane was indeed murdered and either
1:46
Speaker 2: by Hugh or by somebody else, that he would then
1:50
Speaker 2: go missing, And what is the probability would be at
1:52
Speaker 2: the hands of somebody else. It seems like the chances
1:55
Speaker 2: that you're going to get murdered are so slim, and
1:58
Speaker 2: if it happened to two people in one marriage, it
2:01
Speaker 2: seems like the odds are astronomically low. It's like I
2:05
Speaker 2: can think of the cases off the top of my head,
2:08
Speaker 2: but I know that there's at least one case where
2:11
Speaker 2: two siblings within that family unit are murdered and not
2:17
Speaker 2: at the same time, differently separated by years.
2:20
Speaker 1: I know we did a Minisota once about the disappearances
2:23
Speaker 1: of two brothers from Alaska named Michael and Chucky Palmer,
2:26
Speaker 1: who went missing I think ten years apart, and there's
2:30
Speaker 1: no connection between the cases at all. They went missing
2:32
Speaker 1: from different locations under different circumstances, But you're thinking, what
2:35
Speaker 1: are the odds that this these terrible tragedies would occur
2:40
Speaker 1: on two separate occasions within the same family. What are
2:43
Speaker 1: the odds? And what's also interesting about this case is
2:46
Speaker 1: that Hugh and Diane Harlan are two of the most
2:49
Speaker 1: eccentric and colorful characters that we've ever talked about in
2:53
Speaker 1: one of our podcast episodes. So you don't wonder yourself
2:56
Speaker 1: that h Harland definitely displays very strange behavior at or
3:00
Speaker 1: his wife is murdered, but you begin wondering is this
3:02
Speaker 1: because he's guilty and he's involved, or is it just
3:05
Speaker 1: because he's a weird person in general? You can interpret
3:08
Speaker 1: it in so many different ways.
3:09
Speaker 2: Do we have another Jewel Kailer on our hands?
3:12
Speaker 1: Not quite that bad, but he does give an interview
3:15
Speaker 1: to a newspaper later on, which is almost as weird
3:18
Speaker 1: as Jewels interview on on some mysteries. So I think
3:20
Speaker 1: you can see some parallels.
3:22
Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking forward to getting to know Hugh and Diane.
3:25
Speaker 1: Yes. So the case starts in nineteen eighty two in
3:29
Speaker 1: the small town of Morro Bay, California. It's pretty much
3:33
Speaker 1: a fishing village located next to the Pacific Ocean and
3:36
Speaker 1: San Luis Obispo County. His main industry in the town
3:40
Speaker 1: is fishing, so Hugh would pretty much make his living
3:43
Speaker 1: that way, but because it was kind of a seasonal thing,
3:46
Speaker 1: he was pretty much self employed and he would make
3:48
Speaker 1: most of his income by taking some fish and selling it,
3:52
Speaker 1: but then would spend the rest of the year just
3:54
Speaker 1: pretty much doing his own thing. The couple didn't have
3:57
Speaker 1: many expenses. They lived rent free a ranch, and you
4:02
Speaker 1: pretty much had the attitude that one should only work
4:05
Speaker 1: for the sheer joy of working and if the spirit
4:07
Speaker 1: moved them, And he just had the attitude that I'm
4:10
Speaker 1: going to make just enough money to survive and I'm
4:13
Speaker 1: just going to do my own thing the rest of
4:15
Speaker 1: the time, even though I'm pretty much living in poverty.
4:18
Speaker 1: But even though he had a very quirky personality, if
4:21
Speaker 1: you look at photos of him, he kind of looks
4:23
Speaker 1: like the captain from you know, the high Linoner Fish Sticks,
4:26
Speaker 1: the guy with the captain side. Yes, yeah, yeah, So
4:29
Speaker 1: if you do a Google search and type Hugh Harlan's name,
4:32
Speaker 1: he looks just like that guy because he has like
4:34
Speaker 1: a long gray beard, so he pretty much fits the
4:37
Speaker 1: stereotype of like a fisherman, but he still got along
4:41
Speaker 1: very well with the other residents of the community because
4:44
Speaker 1: he would help them out whenever he could to offer
4:46
Speaker 1: them assistance. And one story was provided by a woman
4:49
Speaker 1: named Catherine Cordero, who said that one day he stopped
4:53
Speaker 1: by her business and saw her unloading fish, so he
4:56
Speaker 1: decided to spend the next several hours helping her out,
4:59
Speaker 1: and he refused to take any money for his services.
5:01
Speaker 1: He pretty much said, no, I just did this for
5:03
Speaker 1: the sheer joy of working, and you don't have to
5:06
Speaker 1: pay me anything. So a very unique personality.
5:09
Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like the happiness and index of
5:12
Speaker 2: Hugh is pretty high. Like you look at certain countries where,
5:16
Speaker 2: you know, you think of America where they really emphasize work,
5:20
Speaker 2: or Japan where they really emphasize work, and then you
5:23
Speaker 2: look at a country like Bhutan where they're a lot
5:26
Speaker 2: happier and it seems to be a lot more relaxed.
5:29
Speaker 2: So it's one of those things where you know the
5:31
Speaker 2: present is a gift and living in the moment. It
5:34
Speaker 2: seems like Hugh was all about living in the moment
5:36
Speaker 2: and just working to sustain oneself, and I think that
5:40
Speaker 2: there is a freedom in that when you're not wanting
5:43
Speaker 2: and trying to attain the next goal as far as
5:47
Speaker 2: work goes and as far as material possessions go.
5:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, that pretty much sounded like Hugh's attitude that he
5:53
Speaker 1: just wanted to do his own thing. He didn't want
5:55
Speaker 1: to worry too much about making money. But the big
5:57
Speaker 1: problem is that even though he seemed to have kind
5:59
Speaker 1: of a happy personality, he was not in a particularly
6:02
Speaker 1: happy marriage at the time. Hugh was forty seven years
6:06
Speaker 1: old and his wife, Diane was forty three, and they
6:09
Speaker 1: had been married for ten years at that point. But
6:12
Speaker 1: Diane was not particularly well liked in the community. She
6:16
Speaker 1: was known for being an antisocial individual who earned the
6:19
Speaker 1: nickname the dog Lady because she seemed to prefer the
6:22
Speaker 1: company for two dogs TOTU and charity to people. And
6:26
Speaker 1: it's always kind of a cliche in true crime circles
6:28
Speaker 1: where people will say that victims are portrayed in the
6:31
Speaker 1: best possible light, where they say, oh, they were the
6:33
Speaker 1: type of person who would light up a room or
6:35
Speaker 1: give you the shirt off their back. But Diane Harlan
6:38
Speaker 1: is not one of those people. It doesn't sound like
6:40
Speaker 1: anyone particularly disliked her, but I don't think they really
6:44
Speaker 1: liked her particularly well. And she was more of a
6:47
Speaker 1: loner who, like I said, preferred dogs to the company
6:50
Speaker 1: of people. And I know Hugh would often get angry
6:53
Speaker 1: with her because she was unemployed, she wasn't bringing in
6:56
Speaker 1: any income, and whenever he made money, Diane would like
6:59
Speaker 1: to spend on her two dogs rather than on themselves.
7:04
Speaker 1: And if Diane was feeling particularly spiteful and she got
7:08
Speaker 1: into a major argument with h it was apparently common
7:11
Speaker 1: to serve him a can of dog food for dinner,
7:14
Speaker 1: and it's even been rumored that there was one time
7:16
Speaker 1: where she secretly bagged dog food into a cast role
7:19
Speaker 1: she prepared for him. So it wasn't uncommon to see
7:21
Speaker 1: the couple fighting all the time about this.
7:24
Speaker 2: Okay, that's another level. I've never heard that trying to
7:27
Speaker 2: serve somebody dog food. I mean, Ugh, I don't like that.
7:32
Speaker 2: And like you said, this is a case where the
7:36
Speaker 2: victim isn't portrayed in the kindest of lights. Calling her
7:40
Speaker 2: the dog lady, I mean, dogs are the best. I
7:43
Speaker 2: love them. We don't deserve dogs as humans because they're
7:46
Speaker 2: just they're sweeter than us. They don't have egos, They're
7:49
Speaker 2: so wonderful, and they love without boundaries. And I think
7:53
Speaker 2: I've known somebody like that where they like animals and
7:57
Speaker 2: they feel at home with animals, But when it comes
7:59
Speaker 2: to interacting with people, a lot of times, I think
8:03
Speaker 2: the people that I've known that have been like that
8:05
Speaker 2: have been deeply traumatized and they've been hurt by people.
8:09
Speaker 2: They're not misanthropic in the sense that they're like haters
8:13
Speaker 2: of people, But it sounds like Diane was a bit
8:16
Speaker 2: of a misanthrow.
8:17
Speaker 1: I think so as well. And unfortunately, because there is
8:20
Speaker 1: only a limited amount of information available about this case,
8:23
Speaker 1: we really don't know all that much about Hugh and
8:25
Speaker 1: Diane's backgrounds before they got married. Because I've always wondered,
8:29
Speaker 1: did Diane have a traumatic experience early on in her
8:32
Speaker 1: life that made her made it very difficult for her
8:34
Speaker 1: to relate to people. It sounds like they were both
8:37
Speaker 1: much happier just doing their own thing. Hugh just living
8:40
Speaker 1: is self employed lifestyle and Diane like living with her dogs.
8:44
Speaker 1: And I have no idea how they met or why
8:46
Speaker 1: they decided to get married, but I get the impression
8:49
Speaker 1: was one of those relationships where they got married because
8:52
Speaker 1: social norms suggested that they needed to get married, even
8:55
Speaker 1: though they don't particularly connect well with each other.
8:58
Speaker 2: And I mean, I've been married for ten years, and
9:01
Speaker 2: the dynamics in a marriage over ten years, especially when
9:04
Speaker 2: you factor in the amount of time they were likely
9:07
Speaker 2: dating at least a couple of years in most cases.
9:10
Speaker 2: I'm just guessing here, pulling that out of my behind,
9:13
Speaker 2: but I would think that in the beginning of their
9:16
Speaker 2: relationship things were probably a lot happier, a lot more peaceful.
9:21
Speaker 2: And sometimes if people have quirks, you can settle into
9:25
Speaker 2: your quirks as you age a bit. More so, if
9:27
Speaker 2: you've got two people who seem to be they might
9:30
Speaker 2: have been diametrically opposed in their views on a lot
9:33
Speaker 2: of things initially, but they were a little softer with
9:37
Speaker 2: their personalities, and so they meshed well. Whereas time goes
9:42
Speaker 2: on and it seems like they're each on a different
9:44
Speaker 2: path and they're no longer getting along in the way
9:47
Speaker 2: that maybe they initially.
9:49
Speaker 1: Were, I think so. I think they probably just me
9:51
Speaker 1: meshed together because they were living in a small village.
9:54
Speaker 1: They were known as two of the more colorful characters,
9:56
Speaker 1: and they probably thought, we're probably the best matches for
9:59
Speaker 1: each other, because I I have a feeling if they
10:00
Speaker 1: had married other people who were more traditional that one
10:04
Speaker 1: were worked out as well. So they figured, oh, we're
10:06
Speaker 1: probably good for each other. But as time went on,
10:08
Speaker 1: they probably wore on each other's nerves and that's why
10:11
Speaker 1: the relationship was not in a good place by the
10:13
Speaker 1: time Diane was murdered. So it was on October thirteenth,
10:17
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, when a partially decomposed and partially nude
10:21
Speaker 1: women's body was discovered under a stand of trees which
10:24
Speaker 1: separated Moro Bay High School from a local beach, and
10:28
Speaker 1: it turned out that she had been strangled to death
10:31
Speaker 1: with a nylon dog leash which was wrapped around her neck,
10:34
Speaker 1: and a second dog leash, as well as a jade
10:36
Speaker 1: bracelet and a silver bracelet, was found at the scene.
10:39
Speaker 1: At the time, the police reported that the motive for
10:42
Speaker 1: the crime appeared to be sexual, but because she was
10:44
Speaker 1: decomposed so heavily, they were unable to determine with one
10:48
Speaker 1: hundred percent certainty if she had been raped. She wasn't
10:50
Speaker 1: carrying any identification, so they didn't know who she was
10:53
Speaker 1: at first, So the police issued a press release containing
10:56
Speaker 1: a description of the woman and the bracelets that were found. Well,
11:00
Speaker 1: the owner of the ranch where the Harlans lived saw
11:03
Speaker 1: the press release and thought that the victim might be
11:06
Speaker 1: Dianne because he had not seen her in several days,
11:09
Speaker 1: and I know that a couple weeks earlier, Diane's two dogs,
11:13
Speaker 1: Totu and Charity, had returned to the ranch without her.
11:17
Speaker 1: And even though the ranch owner advised you to contact
11:19
Speaker 1: the police, he decided not to do so and seemed
11:22
Speaker 1: unconcerned about the whole situation. So after the ranch owner
11:26
Speaker 1: showed you the press release and urged him to contact
11:29
Speaker 1: the authorities, who finally agreed to meet with the police.
11:31
Speaker 1: And when he saw the decomposed body and the two
11:34
Speaker 1: bracelets which have been found at the scene, he positively
11:37
Speaker 1: identified them as belonging to Diane. So now they knew
11:41
Speaker 1: that the decomposed victim was her. But of course, once
11:44
Speaker 1: he was questioned by investigators, they became very suspicious because
11:49
Speaker 1: he claimed that the last time he saw Diane was
11:51
Speaker 1: on the evening of October the second, which was eleven
11:54
Speaker 1: days before her body was found, and he made no
11:56
Speaker 1: attempt to contact the authorities during that time period.
12:00
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say it was like
12:02
Speaker 2: two days, eleven days, Like you're a little laxadaisical, sir.
12:07
Speaker 2: I think that, Okay, one day goes by, you might
12:10
Speaker 2: think she's pissed. It sounds like they to a degree,
12:13
Speaker 2: they were living separate lives, still married, but it didn't
12:16
Speaker 2: seem like they were closed. It was a difficult marriage.
12:19
Speaker 2: Maybe this was a regular thing that she would like
12:22
Speaker 2: not come home for a day. But I'm sorry the
12:25
Speaker 2: dogs return back without her. It's been eleven days, sir.
12:30
Speaker 2: You need to inform law enforcement and get a search
12:33
Speaker 2: party out. Are you not at least a little bit worried.
12:36
Speaker 2: Even if you dislike this woman to your very core,
12:39
Speaker 2: you probably shouldn't want her dead.
12:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what's weird about this whole thing is that
12:44
Speaker 1: you can interpret it in so many different ways. You
12:46
Speaker 1: can think that Hugh didn't report her missing because he's
12:49
Speaker 1: guilty and was responsible for her death. Or it could
12:52
Speaker 1: just be his weird personality where he is just so
12:55
Speaker 1: sick of his wife that if he disappears, he's kind
12:57
Speaker 1: of secretly glad about it, just to not her her
13:00
Speaker 1: In his life, that he doesn't do anything even though
13:03
Speaker 1: it looks suspicious to the outside world, like he may
13:06
Speaker 1: be operating on a different social plane where he just
13:09
Speaker 1: does not realize that this is going to look very
13:11
Speaker 1: badly for you. If your wife goes missing and turns
13:14
Speaker 1: up dead and you do nothing.
13:16
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you told me how quirky he is initially,
13:19
Speaker 2: so I'm refraining from judging the situation and trying to
13:23
Speaker 2: just take it all in because in most circumstances, if
13:26
Speaker 2: you just told me that a husband waited eleven days
13:29
Speaker 2: to report their wife missing, automatically, I would be like, well,
13:32
Speaker 2: he killed her. But in this case, I'm holding back
13:35
Speaker 2: and I'm waiting until you give me all the information.
13:38
Speaker 1: It's true because if you watched this was featured on
13:41
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries many years ago, and it had an interview
13:43
Speaker 1: with a couple of Hugh's friends who were defending him,
13:46
Speaker 1: saying that I know Hugh, I know he didn't get
13:48
Speaker 1: along well with his wife, but I do not believe
13:50
Speaker 1: he's a murderer at heart. If you knew his generous personality,
13:53
Speaker 1: you would think that he's not capable about that. And
13:56
Speaker 1: this whole thing about him not reporting Diane missing. He
14:00
Speaker 1: pretty much just said, that's just Hugh being Hugh. If
14:02
Speaker 1: he knew the guy, you would know that's not unusual,
14:05
Speaker 1: and then even went so far as to state that
14:07
Speaker 1: if Diane turned up murdered and he just started crying
14:10
Speaker 1: and getting emotional and going on about how much they
14:14
Speaker 1: loved each other, that would have looked suspicious because that
14:16
Speaker 1: would have been completely had a character for him. But
14:19
Speaker 1: when they just see the nonchalant way he reacted to it,
14:22
Speaker 1: they said, well, that's more of the norm for Hugh,
14:24
Speaker 1: So we didn't find that suspicious. So part of Hugh's
14:29
Speaker 1: story did check out because he claimed that on the
14:32
Speaker 1: evening of October the second, Diane had gone out for
14:35
Speaker 1: a walk with her two dogs, Toto and Charity, and
14:38
Speaker 1: the last confirmed independent sighting of Diane was from a
14:41
Speaker 1: witness who saw her walking two dogs at around six
14:44
Speaker 1: fifteen pm near Morro Bay High School, which was about
14:48
Speaker 1: a half mile from the ranch where she lived and
14:50
Speaker 1: was near the wooded area where her body was eventually found,
14:54
Speaker 1: and at about an hour later, witnesses recalled seeing Toto
14:57
Speaker 1: and Charity running around near the stane of trees where
15:00
Speaker 1: her body would eventually be found, so it seemed likely
15:03
Speaker 1: that she probably was dead at that point and the
15:06
Speaker 1: dogs just didn't know how to react. And he would
15:08
Speaker 1: say that the dogs returned home at around eleven pm
15:11
Speaker 1: that night without Diane, but he told the police that
15:14
Speaker 1: it wasn't uncommon for his wife to run off and
15:17
Speaker 1: disappear for days at a time, so he thought that
15:20
Speaker 1: she may have left with friends to go see some
15:22
Speaker 1: friends they had in Colorado, and that's why he never
15:25
Speaker 1: bothered to report her missing to the police, even though
15:28
Speaker 1: eleven days passed without her showing up. But of course,
15:31
Speaker 1: the reason the police found this suspicious is that, even
15:34
Speaker 1: if this was common for Diane to run off, it
15:37
Speaker 1: seemed weird that she would take her dogs for a
15:39
Speaker 1: walk and then just abandoned them and let them run around,
15:42
Speaker 1: because by all accounts, she cared for her dogs more
15:45
Speaker 1: than anyone, and it seems likely if she wanted to
15:48
Speaker 1: take off, she would have at least told someone, Hey,
15:50
Speaker 1: take care of my dogs while I'm gone.
15:52
Speaker 2: I feel like, given the state of their relationship, would
15:56
Speaker 2: she have trusted Hugh to look after the dogs the
15:58
Speaker 2: way that she wanted them to be looked at? It
16:00
Speaker 2: sounds unlikely to me that she would just leave them
16:03
Speaker 2: running around because they didn't have their leashes on them.
16:06
Speaker 2: They would have just been running around like, not even
16:09
Speaker 2: let them in the yard. I don't understand like the
16:11
Speaker 2: layout of their place on this ranch, if they would
16:13
Speaker 2: have had to go through a gate, or how the
16:16
Speaker 2: dogs would gain access if somebody had to let them in,
16:19
Speaker 2: or if they was spencing up around the ranch for cattle.
16:23
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but it sounds a little bit odd.
16:27
Speaker 2: But also when I think of what scenario would it
16:30
Speaker 2: have to be for Hugh to have to go and
16:33
Speaker 2: stalk Diane and kill her whilst on a walk, And
16:36
Speaker 2: then if that was the truth, would you say that
16:40
Speaker 2: the dogs just like ran up without leashes or would
16:43
Speaker 2: you then make the dogs disappear because it would be
16:47
Speaker 2: more convenient for your story.
16:49
Speaker 1: Yeah. The main reason that they started to get more
16:51
Speaker 1: suspicious about Q is that he initially claimed that when
16:55
Speaker 1: Totu and Charity returned home they still had their leashes on,
16:59
Speaker 1: but then investigate us. No, Diane had one of the
17:01
Speaker 1: dog's leashes wrapped around her neck because she was strangled
17:04
Speaker 1: to death, and the other leash was found at the scene,
17:07
Speaker 1: And then Hugh wound up changing his story and said, oh,
17:09
Speaker 1: I guess the dogs did return home without their leashes on,
17:12
Speaker 1: And when confronted about this discrepancy, that's when you finally
17:15
Speaker 1: decided to ask for an attorney and told the police
17:18
Speaker 1: that he was no longer going to be questioned without one.
17:21
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that sounds weird, But I also think if
17:24
Speaker 2: he did kill her with the leash, he wouldn't know that,
17:27
Speaker 2: and he wouldn't say that the dogs came back with
17:29
Speaker 2: the leashes. I think maybe it was just a mistake
17:32
Speaker 2: on his part. There's a potential for that.
17:34
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking as well, that maybe he just
17:36
Speaker 1: misremembered about the leashes. Because that's the thing is that
17:40
Speaker 1: we do have independent eyewitnesses who confirmed that Diane did
17:43
Speaker 1: go out and walk her dogs. So it's not implausible
17:47
Speaker 1: that she could a cross paths with a stranger who
17:50
Speaker 1: decided to kill her, maybe for the purposes of sexual assault,
17:54
Speaker 1: because she was found partially nude, and it just seems
17:57
Speaker 1: weird to me that Hugh would decide to leave the
17:59
Speaker 1: ranch and stock her and kill her in this public location.
18:03
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, the fact that she was
18:05
Speaker 1: strangled with the leash seems like a very unusual manner
18:08
Speaker 1: of death for a stranger who wanted to sexually assault her.
18:12
Speaker 1: And you're also thinking that most predators would try to
18:14
Speaker 1: avoid a woman who was walking around with two dogs,
18:17
Speaker 1: because how you know the dogs aren't going to attack
18:20
Speaker 1: you if you try to go after their masters. So
18:22
Speaker 1: it's just you look at both situations and Diane being
18:25
Speaker 1: killed by Hugh or a random stranger. Both scenarios really
18:29
Speaker 1: don't seem to make all that much sense. And you're
18:32
Speaker 1: also thinking to yourself because one of the biggest reasons
18:35
Speaker 1: that Hugh and Diane always had these fights is because
18:38
Speaker 1: he was always angry that she seemed to care more
18:40
Speaker 1: about her dogs than him and would spend all the
18:43
Speaker 1: money he made on her dogs. So you could say
18:45
Speaker 1: that maybe the whole ish thing about strangling her with
18:48
Speaker 1: the leash might have been some sort of symbolic gesture
18:50
Speaker 1: on Hugh's.
18:51
Speaker 2: Part maybe, or it could have just been a crime
18:54
Speaker 2: of opportunity and somebody was using their hands. But using
18:58
Speaker 2: your hands can be very difficult. I would think of
19:01
Speaker 2: them like, that's what they say, right to strangle somebody,
19:03
Speaker 2: it takes a really long time. So if there's two
19:06
Speaker 2: dogs there, and I don't know what breed they were.
19:08
Speaker 2: If they were small dogs, I would see a perpetrator
19:10
Speaker 2: not worrying. If you've got like a Rottliler and a
19:13
Speaker 2: German shepherd, I would say the chances of somebody choosing
19:16
Speaker 2: that to be their victim would be fairly low because
19:19
Speaker 2: those dogs would be likely to protect their master. Unless
19:23
Speaker 2: it's somebody that they know, then it could be different.
19:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's never been specified what kind of breed of
19:29
Speaker 1: dogs they were, so if they were rather small, I
19:32
Speaker 1: could see a perpetrator still deciding to attack Diane and
19:35
Speaker 1: not considering the dogs to be a threat. But since
19:38
Speaker 1: you mentioned strangulation, one piece of evidence which I think
19:41
Speaker 1: could point to Hugh's innocence is that he was actually
19:44
Speaker 1: missing a thumb and a forefinger on his left hand,
19:48
Speaker 1: And strangulation usually involves both hands and involves using an
19:52
Speaker 1: awful lot of strength, and you would think that if
19:55
Speaker 1: he strangled Diane with a leash, it would be more
19:57
Speaker 1: difficult for him to get a full grip if he
19:59
Speaker 1: was missing a thumb and a four finger on one
20:01
Speaker 1: of his hands. So I don't know would it be
20:03
Speaker 1: possible for him to be able to pull this off
20:05
Speaker 1: with only eight fingers, I.
20:08
Speaker 2: Think so if you're using a leash, like I'm sure
20:11
Speaker 2: he's used to being able to get a good grip,
20:13
Speaker 2: you don't need the same kind of leverage if you're
20:16
Speaker 2: using a leash as using both of your hands. So
20:18
Speaker 2: I think you could almost argue that a point against
20:21
Speaker 2: him where using both of his hands wouldn't have been
20:24
Speaker 2: as effective on her neck, So grabbing that item of
20:28
Speaker 2: opportunity aka the leash, would be a lot easier for
20:33
Speaker 2: him than just strangling her with one hand where he's
20:36
Speaker 2: missing those couple fingers.
20:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, that does make sense as well that maybe if
20:40
Speaker 1: this wasn't like a premeditated murder, it was a crime
20:43
Speaker 1: of passion and he just thought, this is the first
20:45
Speaker 1: thing I have, the leash, that's when he decided to
20:48
Speaker 1: do it, and he was able to pull it off
20:50
Speaker 1: even though he was missing two fingers. But once again,
20:52
Speaker 1: would he really decide to do this in public rather
20:55
Speaker 1: than just doing it on the privacy of the ranch,
20:57
Speaker 1: because there weren't any independent sightings of Hugh being anywhere
21:00
Speaker 1: near the crime scene, So it just makes you wonder
21:03
Speaker 1: did he just decide to follow her out there and
21:05
Speaker 1: kill her, or maybe, if this wasn't a stranger crime,
21:08
Speaker 1: maybe Diane had some other enemies who had a motive
21:11
Speaker 1: to kill her. But it doesn't sound like they found
21:13
Speaker 1: anyone in Diane's background who any enemies. Even though people
21:17
Speaker 1: didn't particularly like her, I don't think there was anyone
21:19
Speaker 1: who hated her so much that they would decide to
21:22
Speaker 1: strangle her to death in public.
21:24
Speaker 2: You never know. There could have been somebody locally who
21:26
Speaker 2: she interacted with, who they found her very triggering and
21:30
Speaker 2: for whatever reason they had this, whether it's like a
21:34
Speaker 2: predilection or pattern of violence, and they saw her and
21:39
Speaker 2: they acted out. Maybe the motive was sexual, maybe it wasn't.
21:43
Speaker 2: I don't know. But I also think it's just so
21:45
Speaker 2: weird that Hugh would stalk her a half mile from
21:49
Speaker 2: their home in public. And we know it was what
21:52
Speaker 2: like six fifteen or something.
21:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was six fifteen, and he claimed that the
21:56
Speaker 1: dogs didn't come home till eleven.
21:58
Speaker 2: Was it dark at six point fifteen? What I would
22:00
Speaker 2: like to know, a good question.
22:02
Speaker 1: This would have been October, but this was in California,
22:05
Speaker 1: so maybe at the sun was in the midst of
22:08
Speaker 1: setting or something like that. But they lived kind of
22:11
Speaker 1: in solitude on the ranch, so if you wanted to
22:13
Speaker 1: commit a murder, it still makes a lot more sense
22:15
Speaker 1: for him to do it on their property and be
22:17
Speaker 1: able to dispose of her body, likely without the ranch
22:20
Speaker 1: owner knowing.
22:21
Speaker 2: I feel like he could have very easily done that
22:23
Speaker 2: if he wanted to, because it would takes some premeditation
22:27
Speaker 2: to stalk her and kill her out in public, and
22:29
Speaker 2: then you're introducing a lot of hidden variables, right like
22:32
Speaker 2: you don't know who's around, who could have seen you
22:35
Speaker 2: and so, and you're also leaving the body to be found.
22:37
Speaker 2: What type of evidence are they going to find on
22:39
Speaker 2: the body? Whereas if he wanted her dead, he, like
22:42
Speaker 2: you said, could have killed her at the ranch and
22:44
Speaker 2: then disposed of her body somewhere. It sounds like the
22:47
Speaker 2: type of community where there's a lot of different areas
22:49
Speaker 2: where one could do that, where a body might not
22:52
Speaker 2: be found.
22:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking is as well, this was
22:55
Speaker 1: a remote village, and if you wanted to dispose of
22:57
Speaker 1: her body and then present a cover story of her
23:00
Speaker 1: just running off on him, that probably would make a
23:02
Speaker 1: lot more sense than her being found murdered a short
23:05
Speaker 1: distance from her property, and there's also the fact that
23:08
Speaker 1: they believe she was sexually assaulted. And I'm also obviously
23:11
Speaker 1: you can't rule out the possibility that a husband is
23:14
Speaker 1: going to sexually assault his own wife, but on the
23:16
Speaker 1: service that does seem to be a piece of evidence
23:19
Speaker 1: that points towards her being attacked by a stranger or
23:22
Speaker 1: someone with a personal grudge against her.
23:24
Speaker 2: That's definitely what I'm leaning towards, because I think, like
23:27
Speaker 2: Hugh was a fisherman, if he was going to murder
23:30
Speaker 2: his wife, I think, well, he'd probably take that body
23:33
Speaker 2: out to see and he would probably weigh it down
23:35
Speaker 2: and dump it there a La dexter.
23:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. He would have known how to do that
23:40
Speaker 1: because he had such ample experience fishing to ensure that
23:43
Speaker 1: her body was never found. But here comes our Drew
23:46
Speaker 1: Kayler moment here, because after he was released from custody,
23:50
Speaker 1: the San Luis Obispo Telegram Tribune newspaper ran an article
23:54
Speaker 1: about Diane's murder where they phoned Hugh and interviewed him,
23:58
Speaker 1: and Hugh made a very odd statement that the police
24:00
Speaker 1: were quote unquote bringing disgrace to the community by investigating
24:04
Speaker 1: Diane's death as a homicide because he believed that she
24:07
Speaker 1: actually died of an aneurism. According to Hugh, Diane was
24:11
Speaker 1: undergoing treatment for an aneurysm and would sometimes forget to
24:14
Speaker 1: take her medication, and so he decided to consult with
24:17
Speaker 1: an astrologist, and this astrologist apparently told him that Diane's
24:21
Speaker 1: exact cause of death was an aneurysm. And h also
24:25
Speaker 1: said that his wife had a special gift for predicting
24:27
Speaker 1: the future and maya foresaw her own death. Prior to this,
24:31
Speaker 1: she had actually owned a third dog named Ratzel, who
24:34
Speaker 1: had recently passed away, and Hugh claimed that shortly before
24:38
Speaker 1: this took place, Diane told him that she had a
24:40
Speaker 1: dream in which she learned that if something happened ever
24:43
Speaker 1: happened to Ratzel, she was going to die a short
24:46
Speaker 1: time later. So he believed that Diane foresaw her own
24:50
Speaker 1: death and that it was medical and was not foul play.
24:53
Speaker 1: But of course the police says, this is absolutely ridiculous.
24:56
Speaker 1: She had a leash around her neck. We know that
24:58
Speaker 1: this was a homicide and that she strangle to death.
25:01
Speaker 1: So on the surface, it seemed like he was making
25:03
Speaker 1: up this stupid story to take off attention. Of himself.
25:06
Speaker 1: But once again, is this Hugh trying to divert suspicion
25:10
Speaker 1: away or is he just saying this stuff because he's
25:12
Speaker 1: a weird person in general?
25:14
Speaker 2: This is a real like Fomby Malick moment.
25:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense where it's.
25:20
Speaker 2: Just the most ridiculous thing. Like if he was to
25:23
Speaker 2: say I think that the cause of death was an anneurism,
25:27
Speaker 2: although the manner of death was homicide, I'd go, okay, well, yeah,
25:31
Speaker 2: like that's a possible thought maybe okay, but not just
25:36
Speaker 2: the cause of death, straight up anneurism, nothing else. Like
25:40
Speaker 2: what did she wrap that leash around her own neck?
25:43
Speaker 1: Like?
25:43
Speaker 2: She did not do that? So I'm very confused by that.
25:47
Speaker 2: But from what we've seen with you, he seems like
25:51
Speaker 2: a very odd duck and like he's very eccentric and
25:55
Speaker 2: he's got his own way of thinking and doing things.
25:58
Speaker 2: So if we were going to look through a lens
26:00
Speaker 2: of like a quote unquote typical person, though I know
26:03
Speaker 2: there is no like real typical person, this would be
26:07
Speaker 2: enough for me to go WHOA, like he did it.
26:09
Speaker 2: But I'm just not getting that vibe here.
26:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it says a lot that most
26:15
Speaker 1: of the people who know who you personally are willing
26:18
Speaker 1: to defend him and that. I have yet to find
26:20
Speaker 1: an interview where someone said, oh, it's so obvious that
26:22
Speaker 1: he decided to kill her. But the whole situation is
26:25
Speaker 1: a complete one to eighty to what we're used to
26:27
Speaker 1: because we cover so many cases where someone's death is
26:30
Speaker 1: ruled to be a suicide or an accident and their
26:32
Speaker 1: family members are screaming foul play, whereas here we have
26:36
Speaker 1: an obvious homicide and we have the victim's husband saying that, nope,
26:39
Speaker 1: there was no murder here. She died of an aneurysm.
26:41
Speaker 1: It's medical. We should close the case.
26:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty wild.
26:46
Speaker 1: So a couple of years later, the Moral Bay Police
26:49
Speaker 1: Department announced that they submitted a case against a suspect
26:53
Speaker 1: to the local district attorney's office, but they felt that
26:56
Speaker 1: there was not enough evidence to file charges. This suspects
26:59
Speaker 1: attorney at apparently told the police to quote unquote charge
27:02
Speaker 1: him or leave him alone, But it was never publicly
27:04
Speaker 1: disclosed if this suspect was Hugh, but the fact that
27:07
Speaker 1: the police have never mentioned any other suspects or persons
27:10
Speaker 1: of interest makes me think that it was Hugh. And
27:13
Speaker 1: that they tried to charge him, but other than his
27:15
Speaker 1: very weird behavior and his odd, inconsistent statements, there was
27:19
Speaker 1: really no evidence that he had committed this murder, So
27:21
Speaker 1: I can understand why they decided not to prosecute.
27:25
Speaker 2: And Hugh seems weird, but he doesn't seem like an idiot.
27:28
Speaker 2: Like there's nothing that's giving me that vibe that he's
27:31
Speaker 2: got diminished capacity or remedial IQ. And I would just
27:36
Speaker 2: think that the manner in which this murder would have
27:39
Speaker 2: had to have been approached, if it was by Hugh,
27:42
Speaker 2: would have left so many avenues to be discovered that
27:46
Speaker 2: it just seems really unlikely. And like you can't say
27:49
Speaker 2: that it's an impulsive crime where he just acted in
27:52
Speaker 2: the moment if it required him stalking her down to.
27:55
Speaker 1: Do it, Yeah, exactly. And like we've talked about, if
27:59
Speaker 1: this was premeditation, I'm sure he would have killed her
28:01
Speaker 1: in another manner rather than doing it in public when
28:04
Speaker 1: a witness could have walked in on him at any
28:06
Speaker 1: moment doing it and it would have been screwed. So
28:09
Speaker 1: it would have made more sense for him to do
28:11
Speaker 1: it like by dumping her body in the ocean or
28:13
Speaker 1: by killing her on the ranch, and obviously, if he's
28:16
Speaker 1: stalking here, it was not an impulsive act. So Diana's
28:21
Speaker 1: murder remains unsolved. For the next four years, it pretty
28:24
Speaker 1: much faded from the spotlight, but then things got very
28:27
Speaker 1: weird on November the first, nineteen eighty six. By this point,
28:31
Speaker 1: Hugh was fifty one years old. He was still single,
28:33
Speaker 1: he had not remarried or started another relationship, and he
28:37
Speaker 1: was still living his freelance lifestyle where he would do
28:40
Speaker 1: the odd job to make income, but he didn't really
28:42
Speaker 1: care that much about making a lot of money. And
28:45
Speaker 1: he stopped by a friend's house that morning because he
28:48
Speaker 1: said he had been hired for a two day freelance
28:50
Speaker 1: construction job at a residence in San Simeon, which was
28:54
Speaker 1: located about twenty seven miles away from more Obey, So
28:58
Speaker 1: he wanted to borrow his friend's tool, and he traveled
29:00
Speaker 1: to San Simeon in his pickup truck and completed part
29:04
Speaker 1: of the job before he left at around one thirty pm,
29:07
Speaker 1: but he apparently was planning to return there the following
29:10
Speaker 1: day to complete the job. He was last seen heading
29:13
Speaker 1: back in the direction of Moral Bay, but then he
29:15
Speaker 1: just seemed to vanish without a trace. He did not
29:17
Speaker 1: return the following day to complete the construction job, and
29:21
Speaker 1: three days later, one of Hugh's friends received a phne
29:24
Speaker 1: call from a mutual acquaintance who claimed that they had
29:27
Speaker 1: seen hughes abandoned pickup truck on the side of Highway One,
29:31
Speaker 1: about nine miles southeast of San Simeon, so it would
29:35
Speaker 1: have been about a third of the way from his
29:37
Speaker 1: route back home to Morrow Bay. So the friend and
29:40
Speaker 1: the acquaintance decided to visit the scene, and sure enough,
29:44
Speaker 1: hughes truck was parked there. The doors were locked and
29:47
Speaker 1: the hood was up, and a number of Hughes's personal
29:50
Speaker 1: possessions were still inside, including his backpack, sleeping bag, a
29:54
Speaker 1: pack lunch, and the tools that he had borrowed from
29:56
Speaker 1: his friend a few days earlier. Hughes glasses and some
30:00
Speaker 1: tins containing some tobacco and rag weed pot that you
30:04
Speaker 1: liked to smoke were also inside the truck on the dashboard.
30:07
Speaker 1: But the two oddest details is that the truck's keys
30:09
Speaker 1: were found on the ground next to a wooded area
30:12
Speaker 1: a few feet away, and when the authorities were summoned
30:15
Speaker 1: to the scene, they discovered that the truck's fuel line
30:17
Speaker 1: had been completely removed, which was a very odd detail,
30:21
Speaker 1: and they performed a search of the area. They checked
30:23
Speaker 1: the wooded area, but they couldnt find any trace of
30:26
Speaker 1: Hue and no eyewitnesses who could recall having seen him
30:30
Speaker 1: by the parked truck three days earlier, so they had
30:33
Speaker 1: no idea what happened to him.
30:35
Speaker 2: This is such a weird scene. And okay, explain to
30:38
Speaker 2: me if you know, because this sounds very confusing to me.
30:41
Speaker 2: So the fuel line's been removed completely, so would that
30:45
Speaker 2: have had to have been done after the truck was
30:48
Speaker 2: parked there, or would have been done before and maybe
30:52
Speaker 2: there was some fuel in and he got to a
30:53
Speaker 2: certain point.
30:55
Speaker 1: It is possible that they could have done it beforehand,
30:57
Speaker 1: because that has been pushed forward as a theory. That's
31:00
Speaker 1: someone could have sabotaged the fuel line before he drove
31:03
Speaker 1: away from his construction job, and then when he was
31:05
Speaker 1: forced to pull over to handle the situation, that's when
31:08
Speaker 1: someone decided to kill him. It's been theorized that perhaps
31:12
Speaker 1: you removed the fuel line because he was going to
31:15
Speaker 1: walk to a nearby service station to get it replaced,
31:18
Speaker 1: and that maybe someone picked him up gave him a
31:20
Speaker 1: ride and then decided to kill him. But the evidence
31:24
Speaker 1: just does not fit anyone theory because if he removed
31:26
Speaker 1: the fuel line and was traveling to a service station,
31:29
Speaker 1: why did he just throw the keys on the ground
31:31
Speaker 1: next to the area.
31:33
Speaker 2: That is the point of contention there. For me, it's
31:36
Speaker 2: like it seems like there was some kind of a
31:38
Speaker 2: struggle or something happened, because why would the keys be there?
31:42
Speaker 2: That makes absolutely zero sense. Even if you're hitching a
31:45
Speaker 2: ride with somebody, why would you throw your keys?
31:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So some people started looking at the possibility
31:51
Speaker 1: that the scene was staged and that Hugh decided to
31:54
Speaker 1: disappear on his own accord. He was a survivalist. He
31:58
Speaker 1: had experienced living off the land, so if he wanted to,
32:01
Speaker 1: he could have gone to live in the woods without
32:03
Speaker 1: having to worry about money or anything like that, just
32:06
Speaker 1: living off the land. But his actions don't seem to
32:09
Speaker 1: support that, because he borrowed his friend's tools without returning them.
32:13
Speaker 1: He decided to go do a construction job and only
32:15
Speaker 1: worked one day before finishing the whole thing and getting paid.
32:19
Speaker 1: And of course, if he decided he wanted to disappear,
32:22
Speaker 1: why would he leave his glasses, his tobacco, and his
32:25
Speaker 1: pop behind in the truck, but then decide to take
32:28
Speaker 1: the fuel line with them, which he's not obviously not
32:30
Speaker 1: gonna need. Another's theory push forward is that it could
32:33
Speaker 1: have been a suicide, that if he killed Diane, he
32:36
Speaker 1: became so overwhelmed with guilt and decided to walk off
32:39
Speaker 1: to a remote area to end his own life. But
32:41
Speaker 1: once again, why would he take the fuel line with him?
32:44
Speaker 2: None of it makes sense. I mean, I can see
32:47
Speaker 2: him staging the scene and disappearing or staging the scene
32:51
Speaker 2: and deciding to end his own life, but the fuel
32:53
Speaker 2: line makes no sense. And also, from what we've heard
32:57
Speaker 2: about him thus far, there's a certain amount of personal
33:01
Speaker 2: responsibility that it seems like he takes for his own life,
33:04
Speaker 2: and that he expected Diane to take but she didn't
33:07
Speaker 2: and that angered him. And so the idea of having
33:11
Speaker 2: your friend's tools and not returning them beforehand, it seems
33:15
Speaker 2: like if you wanted to leave a job half done
33:17
Speaker 2: in your staging a scene, yes, I could see that,
33:19
Speaker 2: but not giving your friend back something so valuable, I
33:23
Speaker 2: don't know, that just seems questionable to me.
33:25
Speaker 1: They actually said that during unsaw mystery. Some of his
33:28
Speaker 1: friends that were interviewed said that that was very out
33:30
Speaker 1: of character for him to borrow friend's tools and then
33:33
Speaker 1: not return them before disappearing, And they even said that
33:36
Speaker 1: if he no longer needed his truck, that he was
33:38
Speaker 1: such a generous person that he would have sold it
33:40
Speaker 1: or given it to someone and not just left it
33:43
Speaker 1: abandon by the side of the rope, because they said
33:45
Speaker 1: that even though he was a very eccentric character, he
33:47
Speaker 1: did have his own routine, his own way of doing
33:50
Speaker 1: things that had a lot of personal responsibility. So they
33:53
Speaker 1: thought it was very out of character, and it did
33:56
Speaker 1: seem logical for him to disappear. I mean, it would
33:58
Speaker 1: be one thing if the police were closing in on
34:01
Speaker 1: him and he felt that he was being close to
34:02
Speaker 1: being arrested to Diane's murder, but when they attempted to
34:05
Speaker 1: file charges, that was years earlier and the investigation had
34:09
Speaker 1: been at a standstill for a long time. And if
34:12
Speaker 1: he was overwhelmed with guilt, it just seems weird that
34:14
Speaker 1: he would elect suicide four years after the fact. So
34:18
Speaker 1: it just seemed like these two events were unconnected. That
34:21
Speaker 1: unless possibly the person who murdered Diane decided to kill Hugh.
34:26
Speaker 1: It's kind of weird that these events would take place
34:29
Speaker 1: four years apart, it.
34:31
Speaker 2: Feels to me, And of course I'm just guessing. I'm
34:34
Speaker 2: just going off my gut feeling here, and whatever evidence
34:37
Speaker 2: we have feels like it's two different crimes that aren't connected.
34:41
Speaker 2: And it seems like with Hugh, I'm leaning towards it
34:45
Speaker 2: being something happened to him or someone happened to him,
34:49
Speaker 2: because because seems completely uncharacteristic of Hugh, like you said,
34:53
Speaker 2: to not give the tools back, to not give his
34:56
Speaker 2: truck to somebody, if he was planning on running away
34:59
Speaker 2: and starting a new life or ending his life, that
35:01
Speaker 2: he wouldn't be like I want this to go to
35:03
Speaker 2: this person, and this to go to this person. And
35:06
Speaker 2: if it was a mental health issue that he was
35:08
Speaker 2: dealing with, we didn't hear about that from any of
35:11
Speaker 2: his friends, correct.
35:12
Speaker 1: No, Like obviously they said he acted strangely sometimes, but
35:16
Speaker 1: that was just him. They never mentioned him having like
35:18
Speaker 1: serious mental health issues where they felt that they were
35:20
Speaker 1: concerned about him, that he looked like he was having
35:23
Speaker 1: a mental breakdown or he was losing his grip on reality.
35:26
Speaker 1: They just said that he was acting as he normally
35:28
Speaker 1: did before he went missing. But of course that opens
35:31
Speaker 1: up the question like who would want to harm you
35:33
Speaker 1: and what would their motive be, because we talked about
35:35
Speaker 1: the idea that maybe they sabotaged the fuel line and
35:38
Speaker 1: that was the reason he decided to pull over, and
35:40
Speaker 1: they decided to take advantage of the situation in order
35:43
Speaker 1: to kill him. But as far as anyone knew, he
35:46
Speaker 1: did not have any known enemies. They even looked into
35:49
Speaker 1: links between Diane, but it does not sound like Diane
35:52
Speaker 1: had any real close friends or family members who would
35:55
Speaker 1: want to kill Hugh out of revenge as some sort
35:57
Speaker 1: of vigilante killing. And that's the issue, is that we
36:00
Speaker 1: know so little about Hugh and Diane's personal lives that
36:03
Speaker 1: we don't know anyone else besides each other who would
36:07
Speaker 1: have had a motive to harm them. So was this
36:10
Speaker 1: just a chance thing where Hughes truck broke down and
36:12
Speaker 1: then just by pure random coincidence, someone pulled over and
36:16
Speaker 1: decided to kill him or abduct him or take his
36:18
Speaker 1: body away from the scene. It's just so hard on
36:21
Speaker 1: this case to come up with any concrete theories that
36:23
Speaker 1: make one hundred percent complete sense.
36:26
Speaker 2: And it sounds like such a remote area, like more
36:28
Speaker 2: obey that, what is the probability that some unknown person
36:33
Speaker 2: would come upon Hugh and decide that he's an opportunistic
36:37
Speaker 2: victim and he would just take advantage of that. It
36:40
Speaker 2: seems so unlikely that to me personally, it feels like
36:44
Speaker 2: there's a greater chance that he was targeted for one
36:47
Speaker 2: reason or another. And I think, yes, we don't know
36:50
Speaker 2: about any enemies he could have had, but we also
36:52
Speaker 2: don't know if he had any romantic relationships. Say he
36:57
Speaker 2: was having an affair with a married woman and that
37:01
Speaker 2: woman's husband decided to do that to Hugh and then
37:05
Speaker 2: made his body disappear. There's a myriad of possibilities when
37:09
Speaker 2: we just don't have a lot of information, so it's
37:13
Speaker 2: difficult to say one way or the other, like, oh,
37:15
Speaker 2: he didn't have enemies or he did have enemies. Yeah.
37:19
Speaker 1: I mean if theoretically, if he was having an affair
37:21
Speaker 1: with a married woman and her spouse killed him, I
37:24
Speaker 1: could see that woman saying silent for her own fear
37:27
Speaker 1: or the own possibility that she's going to be arrested
37:30
Speaker 1: out of her own complicity. And even though the truck
37:33
Speaker 1: was found at that location. That doesn't necessarily mean Q
37:36
Speaker 1: pulled over there. It's possible that the scene was staged
37:39
Speaker 1: because it was three days after he was last confirmed
37:42
Speaker 1: to be alive when they found the truck. So, for
37:45
Speaker 1: all we know, maybe he traveled home and someone killed
37:47
Speaker 1: him there and then drove the truck back to that location.
37:51
Speaker 1: Another strange detail is that even though he was heading
37:54
Speaker 1: south from San Simeon back home Tomorrow Bay, the truck
37:57
Speaker 1: was found pointing north on the north side of the
38:00
Speaker 1: which is the opposite direction he should have been driving.
38:03
Speaker 1: So for all we know, he could have driven somewhere,
38:05
Speaker 1: was killed at another location, and that person decided to
38:08
Speaker 1: drive the truck out to the side of the road
38:10
Speaker 1: and leave it there and maybe just like toss Hugh's
38:13
Speaker 1: keys around, just to add confusion to the scene and
38:16
Speaker 1: maybe remove the fuel line to mislead the investigation.
38:19
Speaker 2: Well it worked because I'm very confused.
38:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, because no one has any the faintest idea
38:25
Speaker 1: of what happened to him. There's like no evidence, no suspects,
38:28
Speaker 1: no persons of interest. Of course, it wound up getting
38:32
Speaker 1: national exposure when it was featured on Unsolved Mysteries on
38:35
Speaker 1: an episode that aired in April of nineteen ninety four,
38:38
Speaker 1: which was seven and a half years after Hugh originally
38:41
Speaker 1: went missing. And what's interesting is that the investigators interviewed
38:45
Speaker 1: in that segment now said that Hugh had been all
38:48
Speaker 1: but ruled out as a suspect in Diane's murder. And
38:52
Speaker 1: I've always wondered did they say that, maybe just because
38:55
Speaker 1: they were thinking, well, if he was still alive out
38:57
Speaker 1: there somewhere and he was hiding out to avoid the
38:59
Speaker 1: re percussions of what happened, maybe we can call his bluff.
39:02
Speaker 1: Maybe if he's watching us say on National TV that
39:05
Speaker 1: he was ruled out as a suspect, he'll decide to resurface,
39:09
Speaker 1: even though what we said is completely untrue.
39:11
Speaker 2: But what a weird time to disappear when no one's
39:15
Speaker 2: coming after you. It's so many years after Diane's murder
39:18
Speaker 2: to just up and leave because you're guilty. It just
39:21
Speaker 2: seems so odd to me. It feels like there's a
39:25
Speaker 2: small likelihood that he could have done it, but I
39:27
Speaker 2: don't think it's very probable. No.
39:29
Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand why they felt that at first,
39:32
Speaker 1: because he was an eccentric survivalist, but there has been
39:35
Speaker 1: no documented evidence to prove that he was still alive
39:38
Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty six, so I do think he likely
39:40
Speaker 1: died around that time period, either maybe wandering off and
39:44
Speaker 1: dying of exposure, or maybe being murdered and someone disposing
39:47
Speaker 1: of his body. But we just don't know what happened
39:50
Speaker 1: or why it happened. But I do know that on
39:53
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries, one of the investigators made kind of a
39:55
Speaker 1: cryptic statement where they said, even though we ruled out
39:58
Speaker 1: Hugh as a suspect and don't believe he personally killed Diane,
40:02
Speaker 1: we have not ruled out the possibility that he knows
40:04
Speaker 1: more than he's letting on and maybe knows who did it.
40:07
Speaker 1: But for whatever reason, maybe he was scared, or maybe
40:10
Speaker 1: he just did not care, he decided to keep his
40:13
Speaker 1: mouth shut, And that is a possibility, maybe that maybe
40:16
Speaker 1: even if Hugh did not kill Diane, he was secretly
40:19
Speaker 1: glad to be rid of her. So even if he
40:21
Speaker 1: had a suspicions about who killed her, he just kind
40:23
Speaker 1: of felt, well, I'm kind of glad she's dead, so
40:26
Speaker 1: I kind of want the person who killed her to
40:28
Speaker 1: just escape justice. So I'm not going to say anything
40:31
Speaker 1: but I don't know if they have more information to
40:33
Speaker 1: indicate that maybe Hugh more than he was letting on.
40:36
Speaker 1: But he is just such an odd character that he
40:38
Speaker 1: didn't strike me as the type of person who would
40:40
Speaker 1: feel that, well, I didn't kill my wife, but I
40:42
Speaker 1: don't really care for murderers solved because I hated her
40:45
Speaker 1: that much.
40:46
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe on the one hand, sure, but then
40:50
Speaker 2: on the other hand, it's like everyone describes him as
40:53
Speaker 2: like this guy with this generous spirit, and so I
40:57
Speaker 2: would think that he would be able to reconcile. I
40:59
Speaker 2: felt this certain way about Diane, but somebody took her life,
41:03
Speaker 2: and so even though I might on one level be
41:07
Speaker 2: happy that I don't have to deal with her anymore,
41:09
Speaker 2: I still believe she deserves justice. That sounds more like
41:13
Speaker 2: the type of person that he was, and so it's
41:15
Speaker 2: like hard for me to believe that he knows who
41:18
Speaker 2: did it unless it was somebody incredibly close to him
41:20
Speaker 2: and that he would just cover for them.
41:22
Speaker 1: That's what I'm thinking myself, because he was under a
41:25
Speaker 1: cloud suspicion, he had the police accusing him of being
41:27
Speaker 1: the murderer. So even if he was glad Diane was gone,
41:30
Speaker 1: I could see him saying that, well, I don't want
41:32
Speaker 1: to be falsely charged with my wife's murder, so if
41:35
Speaker 1: I have an idea who did this, I'm going to
41:37
Speaker 1: tell the police to take the suspicion off myself. Yeah,
41:40
Speaker 1: it does seem weird, Like they talked about perhaps he
41:43
Speaker 1: was afraid of repercussions if he spoke, but he seemed
41:46
Speaker 1: like a very like self assured, tough guy who would
41:48
Speaker 1: not be afraid of anything, And it's just odd that
41:50
Speaker 1: he would go four years without saying anything if he
41:54
Speaker 1: had his own suspicions. But on the other hand, I
41:56
Speaker 1: don't believe that whoever killed Diane just suddenly decided to
42:00
Speaker 1: kill Hugh four years after the fact, because if they
42:03
Speaker 1: were afraid of him talking because he knew something, they're
42:05
Speaker 1: not going to wait that long in order to get
42:07
Speaker 1: rid of them.
42:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty much a ruling that out as a
42:11
Speaker 2: possibility in my mind. I don't think that they're just
42:13
Speaker 2: going to lie and wait for four years. And I
42:16
Speaker 2: think if he did suspect somebody that he had all
42:19
Speaker 2: these friends coming forward and speaking on his behalf, I
42:22
Speaker 2: feel like he would have confided in somebody and said,
42:24
Speaker 2: like I feel like it could be this person or
42:26
Speaker 2: it could be that person. And we didn't hear any
42:28
Speaker 2: of that, did we.
42:29
Speaker 1: No, we didn't. Like no one else besides Hugh has
42:32
Speaker 1: ever been pushed forward as a potential suspect. And I
42:35
Speaker 1: get the impression that his friends have no idea who
42:38
Speaker 1: could have killed Diane. So it's possible that this is
42:41
Speaker 1: nothing more than a very odd coincidence, that Diane could
42:44
Speaker 1: have been killed by like a random predator or something,
42:47
Speaker 1: or a random stranger, and Hugh just came under the
42:49
Speaker 1: cloud of suspicion because of his weird personality and then
42:52
Speaker 1: in a completely unrelated event, he wound up going missing
42:55
Speaker 1: four years later. And it doesn't necessarily mean that he
42:59
Speaker 1: was the victim of foul play because he was getting
43:01
Speaker 1: to be in his fifties. Maybe he had a medical
43:03
Speaker 1: episode and then parked his truck and wandered off into
43:06
Speaker 1: the forest and died of exposure, and they just haven't
43:09
Speaker 1: found his remains. We just have zero evidence pointing in
43:12
Speaker 1: either direction that I can't say with any certainty what
43:15
Speaker 1: I believe happened.
43:16
Speaker 2: It's possible you could have a situation where it could
43:20
Speaker 2: be some kind of amnesia or something like that where
43:22
Speaker 2: he forgets where he is, who he is, all these
43:24
Speaker 2: types of things that you wander off. Exposure could have
43:27
Speaker 2: been the end of his life. So yeah, there's so
43:29
Speaker 2: many different possibilities here. It's just so weird that the
43:33
Speaker 2: keys were thrown and the fuel line was missing.
43:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if someone killed them,
43:38
Speaker 1: why they would remove the fuel line unless Hugh himself
43:41
Speaker 1: removed it because it was broken, But who knows. If
43:44
Speaker 1: he was not in his right state of mind, if
43:45
Speaker 1: he was suffering from amnesia or had a mental health episode,
43:49
Speaker 1: maybe he decided to remove it for reasons known only
43:51
Speaker 1: to him before he walked into the woods and died
43:54
Speaker 1: of exposure.
43:55
Speaker 2: You know what it's reminding me of. It's giving me almost
43:58
Speaker 2: like a briceless pista vibe.
44:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another one where his behavior before he went
44:03
Speaker 1: missing was so odd, And because he went missing in
44:06
Speaker 1: such a remote area, you feel that the odds of
44:09
Speaker 1: a random killing or finding him and killing him and
44:13
Speaker 1: disposing of his body seem very remote. And I oh,
44:16
Speaker 1: it's always been suspected that he had a mental health
44:18
Speaker 1: episode and maybe could still be alive out there somewhere today,
44:21
Speaker 1: Like maybe he's been living as a transient these past
44:23
Speaker 1: several years, or maybe his death was a suicide, or
44:26
Speaker 1: he died of exposure. We just don't know. But I
44:29
Speaker 1: don't rule out the possibility that Hugh could have been
44:32
Speaker 1: alive for a great period of time after he went missing,
44:35
Speaker 1: perhaps living as a transient. But if he was still
44:38
Speaker 1: alive today, he would be in his late nineties, so
44:41
Speaker 1: I think the odds of him still being with us
44:43
Speaker 1: after all this time are pretty much non existent. But yeah,
44:46
Speaker 1: this is the ultimate definition of two mysteries rolled into one.
44:49
Speaker 1: I am inclined to believe that Diane's murder and Hugh's
44:52
Speaker 1: disappearance are two completely different crimes that are just coincidentally
44:57
Speaker 1: related to each other. But I unfortunately I have no
45:00
Speaker 1: idea who really could have killed Diane or who would
45:02
Speaker 1: have had a motive to harm Hughes. So sadly, it
45:05
Speaker 1: seems these are both destined to remain unsolved mysteries. Any
45:09
Speaker 1: further thoughts on the disappearance of Hugh Harlan and the
45:12
Speaker 1: murder of Diane Harlan.
45:14
Speaker 2: This is such a compelling case. Our both cases are
45:17
Speaker 2: compelling because you've got almost two atypical victims. Or maybe
45:23
Speaker 2: he's a victim. Maybe he's just a victim of circumstance
45:26
Speaker 2: and some type of medical issue. But I don't think
45:29
Speaker 2: that Hugh killed Diane. I think it was most likely
45:32
Speaker 2: an opportunistic predator. I mean, it could have been somebody
45:34
Speaker 2: stalking Diane that we don't know, but I just don't
45:38
Speaker 2: think that Hugh would have killed her in that manner,
45:40
Speaker 2: out in public like that. I don't know if it
45:43
Speaker 2: was dark at six fifteen or whatever time it was,
45:46
Speaker 2: but I just think it's so unlikely and to just
45:48
Speaker 2: leave her body out there to be discovered and to
45:50
Speaker 2: possibly be linked to him. I think it was a
45:53
Speaker 2: mistake with the dog leashes when he said they were
45:55
Speaker 2: wearing delicies. I mean, we all make mistakes, and like
45:58
Speaker 2: eyewitness testimony, we know how flawed it is, so it's
46:02
Speaker 2: possible he just made that mistake. And I think that
46:05
Speaker 2: his disappearance is completely unrelated to what happened to Diane.
46:09
Speaker 2: I honestly have no idea what happened to him. My
46:12
Speaker 2: gut's not telling me one way or the other.
46:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean we've made comparisons to someone like
46:17
Speaker 1: Jewel Kaylor. When you look at the facts of his case,
46:20
Speaker 1: it seems obvious that he killed his wife, but just
46:23
Speaker 1: because everything seems so calculated and premeditated. But Hugh had
46:26
Speaker 1: just such a different personality that in most cases, if
46:29
Speaker 1: a husband waited eleven days to report his wife missing,
46:33
Speaker 1: you'd automatically believe that he was guilty. But here because
46:36
Speaker 1: he was such an eccentric, colorful character, and this was
46:39
Speaker 1: a very atypical marriage, most of Hugh's friends said that
46:43
Speaker 1: was more typical for him to just not care if
46:45
Speaker 1: his wife disappeared for a few days. And so, in
46:48
Speaker 1: considering that there is just no other evidence against him,
46:51
Speaker 1: and that the crime more closely resembles a stranger attack,
46:54
Speaker 1: it seems more likely that Diane was killed by an
46:56
Speaker 1: unknown party. But I really don't know what happened to you,
47:00
Speaker 1: even though I'm inclined to believe his disappearance had nothing
47:03
Speaker 1: to do with Diane's murder.
47:04
Speaker 2: Well, you did the absolute impossible. You were able to
47:07
Speaker 2: present a potential suspect that when eleven days without reporting
47:12
Speaker 2: his wife missing. At the end, I don't think that
47:14
Speaker 2: he did it. If you would have told me before
47:17
Speaker 2: this that you would have been able to do that,
47:18
Speaker 2: you were going to tell me a case about this,
47:20
Speaker 2: I would have said, well, obviously I'm going to think
47:22
Speaker 2: he's guilty at the end, but that isn't the case.
47:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking forward to seeing your reaction because
47:27
Speaker 1: I kind of figure when I share these details about
47:29
Speaker 1: Q at the beginning, you were automatically gonna think he
47:32
Speaker 1: did it. But once you look at the big picture,
47:34
Speaker 1: it seems more unlikely that he was responsible for his
47:37
Speaker 1: wife's murder. So that about brings an end to this
47:40
Speaker 1: month's bonus Patreon Minisot. Thank you so much for your
47:43
Speaker 1: continued support, and we will be back next month to
47:46
Speaker 1: present you with another bonus Minniesot, So goodbye everyone,