Latest / Twin Mom Life / Vaginal Delivery with Breech Extraction, Tips for Tandem Breastfeeding and Competition Among Twins
Transcript
- Jessielee Sittig: Hello and welcome to the Twin Mom Life podcast. I'm your host, Jess. I created this podcast to help build community, connection, and most importantly, friendships among moms of multiples. Being a twin mom can be amazing and magical. That twin bond is unlike anything I've ever witnessed, but it can also be isolating and overwhelming. I'll be chatting with other twin moms, diving deep into the twin experience. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy twin mom life to listen along. I hope this podcast shed some light on a topic that's been on your heart and gave you more confidence as a twin mama. If you know a twin mom, please send this her way. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review. Check out the show notes to be connected with today's guest and get discount codes for brands I love. See you next Thursday. Until then. Hey, welcome to the podcast. Naomi Zumbrun: Hi, yeah, thank you so much for having me. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, I'm so excited. So today we have Naomi. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Naomi Zumbrun: Yes. So I am a mom of three. My twins are five. They're almost five and a half. And then I've got a two and a half year old little boy. I ⁓ to be a teacher ⁓ ⁓ I got pregnant with the twins, I knew that ⁓ them both to daycare was going to be a lot. So I ended up staying home with them ⁓ I've been a stay at home mom ever since, but now I actually have an event planning business that Jessielee Sittig: giving advice on what works for us so you don't have to learn the hard way. Juggling two babies at the same time is challenging, but I'm confident we can learn from each other and figure out how to raise these babies together. You are made for this. Naomi Zumbrun: my best friend and I have built together. And so I'm able to still be home with the kids and also be building this business. And so it's been a lot of fun. That's a little snippet anyway. Jessielee Sittig: love that. your party event planning company called? Naomi Zumbrun: It's called Birdie and Co. On Instagram, it's birdieandcoevents, and we do event planning and design and all kinds of decor for all different types of celebrations. So birthday parties, weddings, baby showers, graduation, I mean, you name it. And we do a lot of like the all-inclusive one-stop shop kind of decor. ⁓ that's our goal. Yeah, yeah. And it's actually been really fun. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ cool. Naomi Zumbrun: to kind of include the kids in that. They love, when I'm blowing up balloons, they love to just ⁓ them around and ⁓ just love to be involved in it. we've actually bought out a bounce house company as well. And so ⁓ they, I pull out a bounce house in the driveway to ⁓ clean you know, for an upcoming event, they're like, ⁓ mommy, can we bounce on the bounce house? And you know, the neighbor kids come flocking and it's just a good old time. So. The kids are really involved in both businesses as well, which is really sweet. So yeah, it's been fun getting to have them alongside me along the way. And not to say that it's always been easy, because it certainly is not. It's a lot to juggle and manage. But overall, it's been really sweet. Jessielee Sittig: Sure. ⁓ that's great. And where are you guys based out of? Naomi Zumbrun: We, I live in Cleveland, but Chattanooga, Tennessee is generally what we claim. Cleveland's about 30 minutes north of Chattanooga. Yeah, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Cool, awesome. Okay, well before we really jump into it, I like to start the podcast asking every mom how they filled their cup today. So have you done anything to fill your cup or do you have plans to do so? Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, it's funny you ask that today because this morning at my kids like preschool program, they had an event called Muffins with Mom. And so when I dropped them off this morning, I got to sit with the twins and they had written little, you know, I don't know what they're called, like mad lib type things where it's like, my mom's name is blank and she's Jessielee Sittig: cute. Naomi Zumbrun: however many years old and it goes into all the, my favorite thing to do with my mom is, know, and so I got to read all of that. They gifted us with little handmade earrings, which was precious. And so I put one earring for one twin in and then the other with ⁓ the other twin. I was like, how, you know, you can't, you can't just choose one. I mean, you know, it's just, it's always a battle of how can I include both, you know, at the same time. So. Jessielee Sittig: That's so sweet. Naomi Zumbrun: So yeah, that was really, really sweet getting to connect with the other moms and just the girls love showing off their friends and their school. So it was really sweet this morning. So yeah. Jessielee Sittig: I love that. And I know exactly what you're talking about with those mad lib things and they are hilarious. Like my mom is 75 years old and you're like, excuse me. No, maybe a five year old wouldn't say that, but like a three year old, know, or something. So those are always so cute. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. So funny. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ huh, yeah. Well, one of the questions was if I could get my mom something, you what would it be? And one of the girls said a stove and the other one said a pan. I'm like, wow, maybe they're onto something. I did have a burner go out on my stove. So maybe they're like, hey dad, like let's, let's get a new stove or come on, fix it. And I'm not sure where the pan came from, but they know that I'm in the kitchen a lot. maybe that's, maybe that's why. Jessielee Sittig: That's hilarious. That's so cute. You're like the associations that you guys are coming up with are so funny. That's so cute. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty cute. Jessielee Sittig: Okay, so for me, so I am a stay home mom and I handle all of the pickup and drop offs for our children. Except on Tuesdays, my husband drops our daughter off. So my daughter's in kinder. So I normally am up by like six or 630 getting her ready for school. On Tuesdays, I'll like say hi and then kind of let my husband do it. So he took her to school and the boys actually slept in. It's always a joke that on Tuesdays, Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Okay. Jessielee Sittig: They'll wake up at like 630 and I'm like, ⁓ man, I didn't get like a little break. So today they slept in until eight. It was amazing. I know I was like, thank you. It was great. So I had my coffee outside and watch the sunrise and like put on little eye mask. It was, it was quite a treat. I will tell you it was. Yeah, it was really nice. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. my word. What a gift. It sounds like it. That's the life. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm so happy for you. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: I really, thanks girl. I really enjoyed my peaceful morning. And it's just funny because like I said, they normally like they know, ⁓ mom's not doing drop off. like, let's hang out. And today they got the memo and they like, popped in. So that was, it was a glorious, calm morning. So loved that. Okay. ⁓ gosh, this could be a whole podcast topic. Okay, so they do. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, do they still nap? ⁓ no. Jessielee Sittig: But my son Waylon has, he has climbed out of his crib before and he is now realizing that he can do it pretty gracefully and just play in his room. So the past three days he has done that. And then Wyatt is like in cahoots and they're like not napping and they're only two and a half. I feel like they still absolutely need a nap because by, I don't know, five o'clock, Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Mmm. ⁓ no. Yeah, right. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ man, the drama and the crying in this house is next level because they're tired. so we are currently debating if we are going to try to put them into big boy beds, which just makes me nervous having them and they're in the same room. And like, are they gonna nap or they gonna what are they gonna do? What what kind of chaos is gonna happen? I did just order Have you seen these like mesh covers for a crib? Naomi Zumbrun: Right, yeah. Okay. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ man. Jessielee Sittig: It almost looks like, okay, so we're going to try that. It almost looks like a mosquito net, you know. Naomi Zumbrun: I have. Okay. Yes, yes. I actually looked into this when my girls were stealthily climbing out of their cribs. I didn't. And you know, it's funny because, sorry to kind of take over the story, but when my girls were about that age, they were, I mean, for about a year, they could easily climb in and out, but they didn't ever try to do it when they were supposed to be like, Jessielee Sittig: Okay, so did you try that or what, what method? Okay. Naomi Zumbrun: napping or sleeping. You know, it was like during playtime they would do it and so I just kind of let it ride. I was like, you know, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Like they they're like trained like little monkeys with their light. Like they don't get up until it's green and so like their little sound machine light. So we waited to put them in a toddler bed ⁓ ⁓ around three. And the reason we did it then was because we went to Disney and they both slept in a queen bed while we were on vacation. And that was kind of like our trial and they actually did really well. because that was like a whole week of that, we got back and we're like, how do we put them back in a crib after they just slept in a queen bed and really did well with that for a whole week? And so we ended up transitioning them to the toddler beds. And then a month later we found bunk beds that we were like, you know what? We're just gonna go for it. And so they've been in the bunk beds ever since and they've done well with it. But that transition, it's so hard to know when the right time is. you know, I mean, cause you're in that season where you're like, this is gonna be the death of me. Like these boys need a nap, but they have each other and they're just, they're wild. At least mine were. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Jessielee Sittig: they are wild and they like feed off of each other. I should have got this on recording yesterday. yesterday, Waylon is like jumping out of his crib. And the one thing that I appreciate is he does do it like I mentioned very gracefully, like he's and he's in a sleep sack, which I feel like we're doing this late hoping that it would deter him from climbing out of the bed. It's obviously not. And now I'm like, is that actually making it like unsafe for him? Not that I want him to continue climbing out of his bed, but Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Right. Jessielee Sittig: Okay, so he's climbing out and I can hear Wyatt going, yay, Wayland, like egging him on. Naomi Zumbrun: That's amazing. Jessielee Sittig: I'm like, are y'all kidding me? Like, go to sleep. And then I'll go in there and I'm like, boys, it's nap time. You may not climb out of your crib. You need to go to sleep. And then they'll look at me and they'll be like, you said nine nights all done. I'm like, no, I did not. I did not say that. so we're at a crossroads. We're at a crossroads on Naomi Zumbrun: ⁓ no. ⁓ no. That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: So we'll see if those mesh things work. My husband is like, they are gonna tear through that. Like it's super thin material that they probably could like poke a hole in. So we will see. And I'm not, you I know of course we're gonna have to transition to toddler beds sooner rather than later. I just was hoping that it would be closer to three. There'll be three in June. So we're not like super far off. And you know, my daughter, Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Okay, not too far. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: also had the same thing where she was climbing out and it was unsafe. So we transitioned her to a big girl bed at two and a half and she did so well. We were preparing like, ⁓ this is going to be the worst week ever. And she like literally slept in her bed. So great the first night and never came out of her bed once. And we were like, wow, that was easy. So I'm not, I'm, you know, I am anticipating with the boys that it won't be as easy of a transition. Naomi Zumbrun: Wow. Wow, that's a dream. Yeah. Right, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And like there's things we need to do. Like they have a Jack and Jill bedroom. They share a bedroom, but the Jack and Jill is with our guest room. So they have access to a bathroom, which is just dangerous. So we need to like put some kind of lock on that door so they can't get in there. We have not anchored our dresser. So that should be done anyways. And this is just like a nudge that that's something that we need to do, especially before they have like open access to their room. Naomi Zumbrun: Okay. Mm-hmm. Sure. Right. Okay. ⁓ huh. Yeah. Right. Jessielee Sittig: So it's opened up a can of worms of like a lot of work that needs to be done. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I get that. There's always like a hurdle in the way of the next thing, right? Like, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: to work. I love how you just like asked me one simple question and I'm like, let me tell you my life story. ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, here's this can of worms. But I can relate. I'm kind of in that season with my son, but I can relate to that with the twins, you know, because they were also in their sleep sack and easily climbing in and out. mean, they've been in gymnastics since they turned three, which I guess this was before they were in gymnastics, but they've always been little monkeys. And I don't know, they just... They've always surprised me with their abilities to just like hoist themselves up and I mean, I would find them in like in the same crib, just playing and I'm like, ⁓ my goodness. Like I remember just like texting my friends during nap time and being like, I'm seeing red. Like I'm going crazy because I just needed that time and that space. And in that transition, I was like, how am I going to make it? Because I really need that like reset in my day. And so it's tough, get it. It's really, really tough that season. Jessielee Sittig: tell you the one thing that's been great is this has not affected bedtime at all. Like bedtime, like they are tired, they are they are not trying to climb out and play. They are like serious bedtime. Good night. It's nap time, where I need that little break in the middle of the day to like eat, eat lunch, do some laundry, like sit for a second. So I think that's where I'm like, ⁓ man, this is a little a little hard. Naomi Zumbrun: Good. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. would love to know. I remember looking into that and then I think I just was like, you know what? I don't need one more thing. We're just gonna try. Jessielee Sittig: So, healthy, I'll keep you updated on if the mesh thing works or not. Well, and you had a good point, like with the Disney trip, feel like if we had something like that, where I'd be like, it would, it's going to be easier for them to sleep in a queen size bed versus bringing two pack and plays. And then you're, you know, like at a certain age, you're like, they can, they can do it. So. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Right. Yes. Right, right, yeah. Jessielee Sittig: Well, I would love to talk more about your girl. we have a similar setup, opposite twins versus singleton. So I have a daughter who just turned six and then my boys, my twins are two and a half and you have the opposite. Which is just fun. Like we have like similar experiences and I would love to talk about your, like an overview of your pregnancy delivery and postpartum because Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ I don't think we said this. We met through a mutual friend, which is so funny because she's a dental hygienist and the boys had a dentist appointment yesterday and we saw her and I haven't seen her in like six months. I'm like, I'm recording a podcast with Naomi tomorrow. Naomi Zumbrun: You I just think that's, yeah, that's like the most wild timing, but I love that. I'm gonna have to reach out to her after this and be like, hey, wait a second. But yeah, I love the connections that we can make with other twin moms through mutual friends or even just social media. feel like I've connected with people just, I mean, you already have so much in common when you share that twin mom. Jessielee Sittig: Yes. Yeah, for sure. I love that. Naomi Zumbrun: bond, you know? It's like a special group of people and there's just there's so much to relate to where, you know, I have so many other friends who have kids but Jessielee Sittig: Yes. Naomi Zumbrun: they aren't necessarily as easy to relate to in some regards, you know, when we're talking about twin specific things. So some of the struggles we had, it's like, I can't even talk about this with my friends because it's just not the same. So ⁓ anyway, it's fun to connect with other twin moms. But going back to your question about, you know, my pregnancy. So of all, I got pregnant with them in March of 2020 and Jessielee Sittig: For sure. Naomi Zumbrun: I think it was truly like the day the world shut down. And we found out we were pregnant. We were like house hunting. you know, the world had just shut down and we're like, ⁓ my gosh. And we weren't even, you know, it wasn't quite on our radar to start trying at that point. We'd only been married a year. But, you know. We're very excited when we found out. And so my first ultrasound was at eight weeks and my husband was not allowed in the doctor because it was April of 2020. So he was there, but he was out in the car in the parking lot because it was only the patient allowed inside. So I'm in the ultrasound room with the tech and she, you know, she's like putting the jelly on, getting warmed up and Jessielee Sittig: Shoot. ⁓ my god. Naomi Zumbrun: and they allowed me to FaceTime him. And so he's on the phone and she notices that he's not parked yet. She's like, ⁓ is he driving? Which mind you, she's already started the wand process. I was like, ⁓ well he's just, he's outside in the parking lot. He's finding a spot. And she was like, okay, well I'll just wait till he parks. And I was like, okay. He parks. And she says, you're having twins. I was like, you are lying. You're lying. She's like, no, honey, I would never do that. That's mean. And she was like, well, here's the first one ⁓ and here's the second one. I'm like sweating, heart palpitations, you know, I see Matt's face and he's just like white. ⁓ my gosh, I just, ⁓ I remember every detail of day vividly because it was ⁓ so unexpected. ⁓ And. So anyway, I went through that whole appointment alone. He's out in the parking lot. He had already called his best friend like, dude, what am I going to do? And so that was something. And they told me at that appointment that they were fraternal because they were di-di twins, separate sacs, separate placenta. And so I went through my whole pregnancy thinking they were fraternal. And I thought that they were going to be boy-girl. Like that was just my gut. and we did a gender reveal at like 16 weeks and we did like the balloon pop with the confetti and when I popped that second balloon and saw that we were having two girls I was like shook. was beside myself like what? I thought I grew up an athlete and I grew up just like kind of tomboyish in a way and I just thought I would always be a boy mom and so the fact that I was having twin girls like really rocked my world and So anyway, my pregnancy was very routine, very normal, never once had to go to high risk or anything. Like I was so grateful, so grateful. It was so routine. I had, you know, an ultrasound every appointment. They were always measuring like neck and neck, just like competing for who's going to be bigger. And they come by it honestly, because again, I'm competitive and I used to coach. so anyway, I Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ wow. Naomi Zumbrun: thought that that was funny that they were like competing for who's going to be bigger. I think the biggest ⁓ risk my pregnancy was ⁓ my B was breach ⁓ and really really wanted to have a vaginal delivery. ⁓ so originally was with a doctor ⁓ who was female ⁓ and ⁓ found at my anatomy scan appointment that she was also pregnant. ⁓ And so I ended up having to switch doctors because she was ahead of me and she was going to be out. And so she put me with a male doctor. My first appointment with him was 34 weeks. And so I'm like, I could go any day now. You know, I'm just meeting this new doctor. But she put me with him because she knew that he was comfortable doing a breach vaginal delivery if, you know, it worked out that way. So I get put with this new doctor and had two appointments with him. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Naomi Zumbrun: And then I went into labor at 36 weeks, had them, I was able to have them both vaginally. Baby A was in position, that was beautiful. And then we thought that there was a chance that B would flip in, know, birth canal or whatever. And she did not. So ⁓ she did come out breached, but we didn't have any complications with like hip dysplasia or anything. I mean, it was, it was truly a God thing. It was just so routine. ⁓ and I was so, so grateful that everything went like seamlessly. The only hiccup with my delivery was my body almost went into shock after. you know, they were four minutes apart. It was super fast, like just boom boom. And after we went back into like the, not recovery room, but I had to have them in the OR just in case. We went back to like the normal, Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Yeah, same. Naomi Zumbrun: labor and delivery room. I tandem fed them right away and then after that they had to go to the NICU for like an hour observation period. It was mandatory because they were 36 weeks and within that time frame my body went into like shock. I don't even know what happened but I was like Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Naomi Zumbrun: I mean they were like wrapping warm towels around my head. I was like convulsing. I felt like I was turning blue. It was the most wild experience, but I think it was just like shock and maybe coming off of the epidural. I really still don't know what it was, but I ended up getting a fever. And because of that, I was not able to go into the NICU to see baby B, Ansley. She was having to be monitored for blood sugar. Thankfully it was nothing worse than that, but. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ gosh. Naomi Zumbrun: I wasn't able to see her for like the first 24 hours. And so that was really, really tough. Yeah. So I had Adley, my baby A in the room and my husband was kind of bouncing back and forth between the NICU and our room. And so that part was, was definitely like the biggest bummer. But once I was able to get the clearance to go in the NICU and we started doing skin to skin ⁓ you know, having that connection, her numbers. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ no. Naomi Zumbrun: like almost immediately went back to normal range. And I was like, wow, it's amazing how much like baby needs mama, you know? And it's like, our bodies are made that way. so yeah, we, thankfully we were all discharged and able to go home together, which was again, another blessing. And so yeah, we really had a ideal twin pregnancy delivery. I mean, truly like it, although there were a couple of hiccups, like overall it was... Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Yeah, aww. Naomi Zumbrun: It was remarkable and a blessing, so I'm so grateful. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, absolutely. So my boys are also di-di, identical. And it's so interesting. I was told the same thing at my first ultrasound. The tech. Yes. And the tech was a fraternal twin mom. And she was like, Oh, they're they're di-di. They're fraternal. And I why would we question that? I was like, Oh, cool. I don't know anything about twins. And yeah, it was just like Naomi Zumbrun: Okay. Really? Wow. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: so shocking. So when we did our gender results, whatever test we did, did the gender and also told us that they were identical. ⁓ And yes, was like, I feel like this test was newer because there were so many other twin moms I talked to and they were like, how do already know they're identical? I'm like from our genetic testing, like it was ⁓ all it like all on one thing. It was like, you know, it showed also the results for like Naomi Zumbrun: Really? Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: the different chromosomal abnormalities that showed the gender and that it showed that they were monozygotic, you know, identical. And I was so unbelievably shocked just because, yeah, I was like the whole time thinking they were fraternal. And then I do feel like having identical twins, you just, there are a couple of other things that you have to think about, like potentially mixing them up, especially in the beginning Naomi Zumbrun: Sure. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, and I also have a blood clotting disorder that's genetic. So I unfortunately gave to my daughter and like obviously having identical twins, they're either both going to have it or they're both not going to have it. So, ⁓ and it was interesting that you were talking about how you were shocked that it was girls. Naomi Zumbrun: ⁓ Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: because I was shocked beyond belief that it was boys. also, yeah, I thought it was like gonna be a boy and a girl too. I don't know. I think that was just like, would have been fun. And that's just kind of what I thought it was. And I was afraid to have girls because I didn't want Kaya to feel left out of their dynamic. So I was a little bit afraid to have three girls and three girls. ⁓ my M.G. Like I just that would be crazy. And then I was afraid to have two boys because Naomi Zumbrun: Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Jessielee Sittig: two boys. So, you know, I, I got over that. And I can't imagine like them not being boys. And they're so fun. But I feel like I had some similar things that I had to like, process through like, okay, I was not expecting this. And it's just so interesting that when medical professionals see di-di twins, a lot of them are not educated that they can still be identical, even though it's not as common. So Naomi Zumbrun: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That was my experience. My doctor, when he found out that they were identical, he was like, what do you mean? They were di-di. Like he just had no idea. But we actually, no, and we didn't do any of the genetic testing when I was pregnant. And so it wasn't until my girls had turned two that my mom was finally like, Naomi, we've got to know because we keep mixing them up. Jessielee Sittig: He like didn't know. Naomi Zumbrun: And so she ended up ordering us a DNA test. We did the whole, think it was like a cheek swab or something, sent it off. Sure enough, they're identical. So my whole family felt validated, you know, and it was just, I kind of had like this identity crisis, you know, with my kids. I was like, I really thought that they were fraternal. mean, I mean, down to like their eye color, their hair texture. I mean, everything was very much identical, but I was just, think in... Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, yeah. Naomi Zumbrun: disbelief so Anyway, so yeah, they were two when we found out that they were identical, but now it's very evident that they are Jessielee Sittig: mean, when I've seen pictures of them, they look very identical to me, you know, and of course, I know moms know like, my boys don't even look similar anymore to me. They're so different. Their mannerisms or personalities. I know that they are identical though. But when they were newborns, I was like, ⁓ Amy, Meanie, Meanie, Moe, like they look identical, like so yes. And you were talking about this that they were like, their weights were always like Naomi Zumbrun: I know, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Really? Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: close and who's going to be bigger, my boys were one ounce different. So it wasn't like Naomi Zumbrun: ⁓ wow, no mine were not that close. That is wild. Are they still to this day the same? Jessielee Sittig: did ⁓ yeah. So ⁓ no, no. So my son he loves to eat. He's a pound bigger. And you can tell like, I feel like his cheeks are a little chunkier. He has like a little bit more of a booty. And ⁓ we joke, we get like booty from my mom's side and her maiden name is Bennett. So we call it the Bennett booty. Like he's got that going on. ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Jessielee Sittig: So, but they're about the same height though, but he's yeah, a pound bigger now. Naomi Zumbrun: Okay, so my girls have kind of started to separate a little bit. Ansley is about an inch taller, which she loves to talk about because she thinks that makes her bigger. But Adley was born first and they know this. And so they love to use that against each other. Adley's like, well, I'm older. And Ansley's like, but I'm bigger. So we really have that competitive aspect. They're really leaning into it. Jessielee Sittig: Okay. Well, at least they both have something right? You're like, yeah, that's, that's fine. Well, okay. And I do, I do want to talk about that, but I know that you mentioned tandem nursing and I would love to talk about that. And then I think, I don't think I actually mentioned this earlier, but when we connected, I, you just were so inspirational and I feel like everything that I wanted and like my twin pregnancy, my twin birth, my postpartum, like you did. And it was so Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yep. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: motivating helpful for me to hear your story and talk to you because I feel like when you are pregnant with twins, you kind of get pushed into this bubble and there's a lot of fear around it. Like your twins are going to come early, you're going to have to have a C-section, they're going to have NICU time and you're going to have to give them formula. Nothing is wrong with those things. But those were all things that I was completely unfamiliar with, especially after having a singleton. So the fact that you made it to 36 weeks, Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, right. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: You had them vaginally. You had minimal NICU time. think you said two days, right? Minimal NICU time and you were able to tandem breastfeed. I would love to dive into that. I was not able to tandem breastfeed. I tried in the hospital. I told you this offline that the one time I did it, it was obviously me. And then my husband was holding one baby and a nurse was holding another baby. And we just couldn't figure out the logistics of Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: doing it. And I'm maybe I could have tried harder. The boys were having trouble latching and in the hospital, we quickly made the decision to start pumping so that I didn't lose my supply. And then we kind of just like, went with that. And I had a three year old. So I was like, how am I gonna? I mean, I still was like tied to my pump. But I just like the logistics were Naomi Zumbrun: Okay. Thank Sure. ⁓ for sure. Jessielee Sittig: seemed so overwhelming to me. So I would love like if you have any tips for a mom who wants to tandem breastfeed, especially for newborns, like, with no neck control, I can see as they get older, how that might be easier when they are bigger, and they have a little bit more like meat on them. But you know, most twins are so small. Mine were four. Yeah, like mine were 413 and 414. They were they were just small. Naomi Zumbrun: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm So teeny. ⁓ wow. Little. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: So yes, you have like tips, like what was your setup? Did you use a pillow? I would love like your, know, some tips for mamas who want a tandem breastfeed. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that. That like makes my day that I was able to provide encouragement for you when you are walking through those scary moments because it is scary. And until you connect with somebody who's walked that road and has said, hey, this is possible. You're just like, there's so much fear around it. And so that makes me really happy that. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Naomi Zumbrun: my story was able to provide some encouragement. So thanks for sharing that. That was really sweet. Yeah, I, you know, like you were talking about, there is so much fear wrapped around it. And my whole pregnancy, was like, you know, I really hope that I can breastfeed, but I kind of just had the mentality, like, if it doesn't work out, like, Jessielee Sittig: course. Naomi Zumbrun: that's fine. I'm having twins. This is going to have to be a lot of milk. You know, like if we have to do formula, like we'll do what's best for the kids. Like I'm not going to be so gung-ho. I just, I'm just hopeful. I guess that was kind of my perspective. And so when we did have the blood sugar, they both had low blood sugar right off the bat. One of them was able to stay in the room with us and they just kind of monitored it. The other one did have, you know, baby B had a little bit more of observation I guess from the NICU. because of that, was pumping in the hospital. And so I felt like my supply right off the bat like was pretty good. They both were doing really, really well taking like those teeny little bottles, you know, with 25 mls or whatever. ⁓ So ⁓ that what goal was. My goal was to like ⁓ pump enough Jessielee Sittig: Yeah. Naomi Zumbrun: split them between the two little tiny bottles and then I think we were mixing it with formula. Like I would, or not mixing it, I would give them equal amounts of MLs in the hospital and then I would like cut the difference with formula for the first, until my milk came in. And then when we got home, we were just, you know, very actively monitoring how much they were getting. And so we were bottle feeding right off the bat, just because of the blood sugar concern. And so. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Naomi Zumbrun: once my milk came in and once I had plenty to go around, you know, they very easily started taking in more and we were getting a rhythm. And so from then, I think we did practice latching in the hospital, you know, obviously lactation came and, and we did that whole thing, but we just didn't put as much of an emphasis on it in the hospital. And so when I got home is when I really had to kind of figure it out. And I think just kind of the way that I'm shaped, think was just helpful. I think anatomy goes a long way with breastfeeding and how babies can latch. And I think that, you know, when you're not dealing with tongue ties and just different anatomical struggles, you know, I think that some people it's just easier. And so I think that I just was fortunate enough to have two babies that were rock stars. And truthfully, they made it easy on me. know, Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Naomi Zumbrun: like you were talking about, the logistics of tandem feeding. For me, the logistics of pumping and bottle feeding and washing all those parts was like such a nightmare. So for me, I was like, it's so much. And so I was just like, okay, if I can do this, this to me is easier. So I did start with the Twin Z Jessielee Sittig: It was so much. It was a lot. Naomi Zumbrun: pillow or, you know, it's like that double, the double boppy, which they napped well in, you know, we loved that thing. But I think right off the bat, as much as I loved putting them in that for nursing, I felt like I was like a hunchback. You know, I had to like really lean over, like basically have my boob in their mouth to get them to like have a really good latch. And so I ended up ordering the My Breast Friend. Jessielee Sittig: It's so great. Yeah. Mmm, okay. Naomi Zumbrun: pillow and they have like a twin version. And so that one just felt way more sturdy and stable. It was like, had more structure to it and it just kind of like wrapped around. And so basically, yes, right. Yeah. And so, I mean, we just, ended up doing like a football hold every time. I would plop one on my left side, one on my right side, ⁓ I would put them on the pillow, make sure they're in the right position. I would get one. Jessielee Sittig: Yes, especially for like newborns, like with no neck control. Yeah, I could see that. Naomi Zumbrun: latched on and then I would get the other and I didn't start by tandem feeding. I'll say that. I started when my mom came and was with us for the first week or two after we came home. like the time that I really started focusing on, okay, ⁓ gonna work on each of them as individuals ⁓ try to get a good latch down. And then once I feel confident enough with that, like we'll try to tandem. So it was like very much, you know, a phase like each ⁓ Each day was like, okay, like we're doing really well with Adley. Like let's try Ansley. And I would even kind of like alternate like, okay, well the 12 o'clock feed, I worked with Ansley. So the three o'clock feed, I'll work with Adley. I don't even remember all the details, but I know that I focused in on each of them individually, you know, getting that good latch and practicing before we went to tandem feeding. But we really only did individual for a couple of days. As they got older, like six months or so, I was able to just kind of like lean back on the couch and prop them up. But if we were out in public, I would just do one at a time. I'm not gonna like get myself naked to tandem feed them. Like that wasn't my goal. So if we were like out at a restaurant, I just would do one at a time and we did that. Jessielee Sittig: Sure. And how long did you breastfeed them? Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, good question. were, it was between 16 and 17 months. And I feel like at that point, yeah, they, like I said, they were, they, they made it as long as they did because of how easy they made it for me. you know, I, I ⁓ thankful for each month that we made it. was like, wow, okay, this is great. Like we're saving so much money, not having to pay ⁓ formula. ⁓ that, that was really, really helpful. ⁓ yeah, they, I mean, Jessielee Sittig: That's amazing. Naomi Zumbrun: At the end, was like, they've got to be getting like dribbles. Like there's no way there's a lot coming out. and you know, when they were over a year old, they would like hop on and like suckle for a second and like roll off and then like go run off. I'm like, okay, like I think we're good. Like you girls can drink your whole milk, we're good. So yeah, they, honestly, it was a really good positive experience for us. And with the tandem feeding, had an app. that I use to like remember who was on which side last because I felt like I did have an overproducing side. I felt like my left side always made just like a little bit more and I think that's common. So I didn't want one to just like stay on one side, know, especially if one ate better one day, you know, I wanted it to always feel even for myself and like my own milk supply, but also for them and like their intake. So. I just kept up with it on an app and I don't even remember what app it was at this point. So if Adley was on the left side last feed, she's going to the right. And I didn't switch mid-feed, it was just like the next feed they would go to the other side, if that makes sense. So that was my experience with that and it was great. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, well. And I will tell you from someone who didn't tandem breastfeed, I think that your tips are very helpful because I like how you explained that you basically did it like incrementally because I kind of had the experience where I wasn't able to tandem breastfeed in the hospital. I immediately started pumping and then I kind of just never looked back. And I like that you were like, well, we did do bottles. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: And then I would do them like breastfeed them individually. And then we would do tandem. So I'm like, that's so great. It doesn't have to be all or nothing immediately. Like you can work up to it. And I think that's such a good point. Naomi Zumbrun: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I definitely think that made a yeah, it made a it made a really big difference for me because I think that it took away some of that pressure that, you know, a lot of moms probably feel in the hospital like, oh my gosh, I have to learn to do this now because if I go home and we haven't gotten it figured out, like there's no going back. But that's just not true. it made a really big difference for me because I think that it took away some of that pressure that, you know, a lot of moms probably feel in the hospital like, oh my gosh, I have to learn to do this now because if I go home and we haven't gotten it figured out, like there's no going back. But that's just not true. You know, we probably didn't have a good system down until they were like two weeks old. And so you know, just because you don't do it the first couple days doesn't mean it's a total loss. you know, the babies can learn, you know, they're babies, they're learning how to do everything. So I think it's okay to work your way up to that and figure out your rhythm as you're figuring out life with newborn twins. Jessielee Sittig: Sure. Well, I think it's a good point. Like I don't think I've ever talked about this actually. But when my sons were maybe six months old, my husband was on my husband's a musician and he doesn't really tour anymore. It's like occasionally he'll have like a weekend show, but he's normally gone for like three days max. Well, when the boys were six months old, he was gone for two weeks. It was insane. So I was trying to manage pumping Naomi Zumbrun: ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: I pumped at that point at six months, I was probably pumping maybe every like three to four hours, where in the beginning it was like every two and a half hours I was trying to pump. And there were some times during that point, where I would directly breastfeed Wyatt. he was able to latch, he was actually interested. Waylon was like, give me the bottle lady. Like that's what I've been doing. Like, what is this? So he was not interested. But there were a couple of times during that season or you know, that two week period. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: that I did directly breastfeed Wyatt because it was literally easier. Like I'm trying to manage, you know, my toddler and the other baby and pumping and the dishes and it was just very chaotic. And I love that I have that experience with Wyatt because I feel like I had to there were some things I feel like as a twin mom that you have to like, mourn a little bit and being a twin mom is amazing. I Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. It's so much. Yeah. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: I'm so thankful. But there were some things that I just didn't have the same, like I didn't have the same experience. Like I breastfed my daughter for like 15 months. It was a little bit hard in the beginning. had like mastitis, she had some tongue tight issues. And then once we were able to get that solved, it was like a beautiful relationship and I loved it. So I was kind of sad that I wasn't able to do that with the boys. So I feel like having, I mean, I probably have breastfed Wyatt, like. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: 10 times. It's it's minimal, but I'm glad that I have those like little memories and that we were able to do that, you know, because I feel like, obviously, there is a more there's more of a connection when you are cuddling and breastfeeding than like cuddling and holding a bottle. I still tried to have those like Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, those sweet snuggles. Jessielee Sittig: This sweet. Yes, exactly. And the other thing that I wanted to say is I feel like you brought up such a good point with the twinsy pillow versus the more structured breastfed breast friend pillow. I didn't know they had a twin version. So Naomi Zumbrun: Hmm. Mm-hmm. They do. And it was a game changer for me. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, like I love so I obviously didn't have the my breast friend pillow, because I didn't breastfeed them. But I had the twinsy pillow, which was amazing for bottle feeding, like just propping them up. It was super great. But it is like a very soft and squishy pillow. So when you have a new, yeah, which is great for depending on what you're doing, like different needs, like I loved it for feeding them. I love them for like propping them up in Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yes. Very much so. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: having playtime, like that was so great. But when they're newborns and you need a little bit more structure, I can see how that could be like beneficial. So I thought all your tips were really helpful. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah, I already have. Well, thank you. I have a bad back and so that like hunched over position ⁓ Isn't ideal for and it was just like giving me a lot of back pain So that was one of the reasons I was like I need to find something else that will work better ⁓ So that that was my that worked well for me, but I know a lot of people who have breastfed twins with the twins II and I've like raved about it So I think it's just ⁓ it depends on works best for you. But for me that was That was ideal for me Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Naomi Zumbrun: And going back to what you said, you said, you know, there's some things that you kind of have to mourn with twins. I literally this morning was talking to some moms about, you know, like having another baby. my husband will always say, oh, it depends on who you ask because I'm like, I really loved like being pregnant. I love the newborn phase. But I've been saying, you know, I would love another baby, but I don't really want another kid because right now the season we're in is so exhausting and it's demanding and they're wild and they just, they're so high energy. They bring so much joy, but that comes with a lot of exhaustion. I was telling them like, that's how I feel because I almost feel like I got robbed of the twins. you know, like that sweet newborn phase. Like I just, it was not the same experience with them as it was with my son who came three years later. And I'm so grateful that I had both experiences, but with my son, I had to cut him off after he turned two from nursing. Cause I was like, all right, boy, we are done. Like we have made it, like you're done. you know, I just like felt like that bond that a mom and a baby is supposed to have. It's almost like the girls had that with each other. And that's not to say that I don't have a bond with them, but because I found myself so often feeling guilty just snuggling one of them, it's almost like I chose not to snuggle either. You know, like at the beginning, I could have both of them on my chest, but as they got bigger, you know, we didn't do as many contact naps and everything. And so I felt like, that sweet bond that you have with a baby, I almost didn't get that with the twins. I feel like you can probably relate to that. I feel like you just really crave that sweet relationship. And like I said, that's not to say I don't have a sweet relationship or bond with the girls. It's just different. It's a different experience. And so to have both experiences, I'm grateful that I got to have both. if that makes sense. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, I agree. I, I am so glad that I got to experience a singleton and having twins, they are both so special and so different. And I feel like, you know, not like my experience with my singleton was perfect. ⁓ but I, ⁓ just see what you mean. ⁓ having twins, I feel like there's a little bit more of ⁓ survival aspect like Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: when we were feeding them, it was like, this is a task that needs to get done. Naomi Zumbrun: Right. I agree. It's like, is what we do. Like, here you are on my left, here you are on my right, let's do this. It's not a cozy experience. here, get your milk and be done. Because, I mean, that's just what we had to do, but you're right, it is survival. Jessielee Sittig: Mm hmm. Yeah. Like, I gotta take a moment for that one. Okay, so earlier you were mentioning that your girls are getting competitive. I'd love to talk about that a little bit more and how you're handling that that now that your girls are five. Naomi Zumbrun: Hahaha! Yeah. So this is something that's probably harder for me to talk about because I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just like, I feel like I'm still in survival mode. mean, I, you know, I, just don't know how to handle it, you know, cause I feel like if I have one of them individually, it's like they're an entirely different kid. And sadly, I don't feel like I give them. Jessielee Sittig: No one knows what they're doing. Naomi Zumbrun: enough opportunities to be with me or my husband individually. And I wish that I was better about being like, hey, you come with me to the store. But because it causes such a thing for the other one that doesn't get that time, it's like, I don't find myself making room for those opportunities. you know, they've been competitive from the start. I feel like with their milestones, you know, learning to crawl. or walk or popping teeth. Every single milestone has been to the same day. I'm not even kidding. Wildly accurate. And it's been baffling to me because I felt like they were gonna crawl for a month and a half. They'd be rocking on all fours and I'm like, all right, come on, we're ready for it. And it took one doing it and then the other took off. And I'm like, what in the world? Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ wow. Naomi Zumbrun: Like you could have done that a month ago. It was, but that's how it's been their entire life. And so I think that honestly, I've had friends be like, oh, they seem like they're advanced And I'm like, honestly, I think it's because they see each other and they're like, oh, well, if she can do that, I can do that. And they push each other. And in turn, like that helps them. Jessielee Sittig: That's impressive. Naomi Zumbrun: succeed in a lot of areas and that's not to say like academically they're way advanced or anything but they're like ⁓ agile and athletic and ⁓ so catch on to active fairly quickly and they're very brave they were like swimming take jumping off the diving board at three years old swimming to the bottom of nine-foot pool ⁓ like ⁓ brave adventurous they keep on toes but they have each other to push them to do those things. I feel like if I just had one of them individually, they wouldn't be that way. And so I think part of their identity is wrapped up in how can I be better than my sister? And so I'm trying to figure out like, how is that gonna look as they get older? How am I gonna like really embrace the fact that this should be the sweetest bond they have without. you know, it taking over and causing like an identity crisis because I don't want them to always be meshed together. You know, we have so many friends that are like, ⁓ are the twins and Rhett coming? I'm like, you know, and that's, it's hard for me to be like, because I do the same thing. You know, I lump them together too. And so, and it's just easier. And sometimes it just rolls off the tongue, but I'm, trying to like really lean into Jessielee Sittig: Mmm. Naomi Zumbrun: their individuality and you know, so okay, the last two years they've been in a little pre-k class and they've been in the same class and I felt like it's been really good. But because we have so many, I say issues, it's not like an issue, but because they are together all the time, they don't ever get a break from each other, they're always in the same thing, like always competing against each other, I thought. this will be a good trial year before kindergarten. We'll separate them. And feel like it's been really, really good. And it's been really sweet to see them developing like their own ⁓ friendships. ⁓ And know, we'll see one of their friends in the hallway and they'll be like, hi Adley, but it's really Ansley. And I'm like, ⁓ no, here we go. Like this is gonna have to be ⁓ how it is the rest of their life, but they think it's funny. So. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: But it's sweet to see that, the engagement of an individual instead of being like, ⁓ hey girls, you know, and that might seem so silly to other people, but I'm like, I really, really don't want that to be their identity. I want it to be something that they treasure and cherish, but I want to see them flourishing as individuals, not as like in their sister's shadow, if that makes sense. And it's, I'm wrestling with that. Like, what does that look like as they enter kindergarten in the fall and, you know, as they engage in other activities? how does that look from the standpoint of, now they're playing softball. Like, is one going to pull ahead of the other? You know, how am I going to handle those things? And I don't know. We're just taking it a day at a time. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ I feel like that's making me ⁓ like emotional because we try really, I think all you can do is try. You are cognizant of it and go from there and pivot when you need to. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: the boys are in like a very small Mother's Day out program. It's six hours a week. So it's very minimal. It's only one class. So they are together. And I feel like because they're so little, I've had like a little bit of guilt about them going. So something about them being together, I'm like, they're together, you know, fine that way. it is really interesting how they are lumped as one already. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And like, how do you handle that? How do you correct that? A lot of the kids and this, this program is for like two year olds to four year olds. So they're all really little and they call them Waylon Wyatt. Like they, the name is one. And I had, this is making me think a lot about one of my first podcasts I had one of my friends, Maya. So she is a twin mom and she is a twin. So she had a lot of those dynamics with her sister. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah. Ow. Jessielee Sittig: Not necessarily where they were competitive, but where they were compared and they were very different. ⁓ yeah. Naomi Zumbrun: I think that I listened to that episode because I related so much to that. I think was she the one that her sister went away? And yeah, okay. So I listened to that episode and I was like, wow, yeah, I don't want this to be a grieving process for when one moves on. know, like this is something that we really need to, you know, be careful of as they get older because I don't want it to be their identity. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm, yes. Yeah, well, and I feel like she had good advice about, okay, we've talked a little bit about sports, we haven't gone into necessarily what kind of sports your girls are doing. But like, as they get older, you know, if one is really athletic, I think my sister was like very good at cross country. And she was not she was more of like the creative the dancer is like encouraging those individual hobbies or things that they're good at and not trying to lump them into one if they both love soccer. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank Jessielee Sittig: Well, then great, let them both play soccer. But if one is leaning towards, I don't know, gymnastics and the other one is leaning towards soccer or softball, encouraging that even though it's hard because my kids are six and the boys are two and a half. So my kids are little, my daughter's in gymnastics, the boys aren't in any kind of like sport yet. And I can already think about, man, as my kids get older and we're in all these sports. Naomi Zumbrun: Right. Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: Logistically, that's going to be hard if all three of my kids are in different sports. Will we do that? Sure, we will encourage that. Would it be easier if they all did the same thing? Yeah. of course, I ⁓ Maya's episode and I loved her advice of encouraging those individual interests. So is that something that you guys have experienced yet or so far, are they enjoying the same ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: Right. They seem to be enjoying the same things. know, they'll... with certain things, they'll, express more interest than the other. ⁓ it really depends, ⁓ Adley seems to really into, like, ⁓ art ⁓ and Like, pretty skilled. Like, she has some really great drawings, and I'm like, wow. ⁓ And Ainsley doesn't to be as far along in that regard, but she enjoys it. She just... ⁓ I think the skill level is a little different as of now. But, you know, they both love gymnastics. We've been doing that for a couple years. They're playing softball. They both seem to be enjoying that and they're both aggressive and go after it. You know, and they, ⁓ it's almost kind of hard to tell at this point ⁓ you know, most of their friends are the same, so it's like, ⁓ They don't tend to like pair off and like go play with other people. They're kind of always together and doing the same things. But I am starting to see more differences in their personalities. I'm just not sure how that's going to look as they get older. But I'm starting to notice like, okay, we have a lot of like the creative side, but the one who is like creative is also real competitive in sports. So I'm just not sure where we're going to land on all of that. Jessielee Sittig: sure. Naomi Zumbrun: It's really interesting to see them growing and expressing interest in new things, but I'm not sure how that's gonna look as we get older because like you said, it's obviously gonna be easier if they're in the same thing. It's less of my time being spent in every which direction. So it'll be interesting. really am not sure how we're gonna. continue to handle it, but like you said, just taking it day at a time and just giving ourselves grace because I tend to be really hard on myself and carry a lot of that guilt when I feel like I have given one of them more praise than the other or whatever. But my girls also, within that same breath, if I am saying, ⁓ my word, that's an amazing picture that you just did, if I'm giving encouragement or praise. Jessielee Sittig: Yes. Naomi Zumbrun: the other one will pipe up and be like, well, what about mine? And I'm like, okay. So I'm trying to like, eloquently be like, you know, if I'm, if I'm giving you encouragement or praise or telling you well done, wouldn't you want that to be a genuine thing instead of me just saying the exact same thing as your sister? And so right now it's more of like an attention seeking thing versus it being like a genuine, Jessielee Sittig: Mm. Naomi Zumbrun: encouragement I guess and so that's where I'm trying to like not get frustrated. It's easy for me to feel frustrated when they're constantly like me me me me me like I want the attention. That's that's where a lot of the competition comes in and I find myself frustrated about that a lot because you know it's just it's hard. I really don't know how to handle it well because they're just constantly begging me for attention. And it's not like they're deprived in any way. I mean, truly, they're not. And so ⁓ think it's just a competitive nature and spirit, just constantly wanting to be the best and to be the best in my eyes, which I would never pick one over the other. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Absolutely. First of all, I just want to thank you for ⁓ your vulnerability like that's You know ⁓ as parenting, it's hard. It's hard to certain things Especially when we don't really know what the answer is I think that's kind of like the beauty behind this podcast is like there is no right or wrong way to do anything and we're all learning Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: Twin moms have ⁓ unique issues that other singleton don't have to deal with. And I think that's what's helpful is like listening to this podcast, you can hear what other people have done. And there are so many varying opinions of so many moms that I've interviewed. And it's been really beautiful to hear how people have dealt with different experiences. And I will say also from ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Jessielee Sittig: like reflecting on what you were talking about earlier with the competitiveness. I think this is something and it sounds like it already is and can continue to be very beautiful because even though there's a competitive nature there, like if that is encouraging them both to be better at things, then that's great. Like we want our kids to exceed and excel and do the best. So, and even some of the things that you were saying, I'm like, well, some of that sounds good. Like having a little bit of a competitive nature. Like I don't think that's a bad thing as long as you can nourish it in a way that is not to each other, but is like an encouraging to each other. And I think that's something that you'll just have to continue to navigate as they get older, you know? Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Jessielee Sittig: thank you for sharing. ⁓ it's just so interesting. So maybe two podcast episodes ago, she has a similar setup where she has three. So she has twins and then she has a singleton. And she was talking about the best advice that she was ever given was making individual time for all three, like even having separate time for the twins. And we haven't really done that with the boys yet. And I feel like that's something we need to start doing. ⁓ Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, of course. Hmm. Jessielee Sittig: I do that with my daughter. We just went on a girls trip this weekend. We're actually going to a water park just me and my husband and my daughter. It's for her birthday. It's like a birthday a late birthday present. And I can't wait to start doing stuff like that with the boys. And I'm hoping, you know, that will only encourage all of these like different bonds and them to see us encouraging just our one on one bond with them. Naomi Zumbrun: Hmm. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And like I said, that isn't something we've really done yet, but that's something that I, now that they're getting closer to three, I think they would like appreciate and maybe be able to acknowledge. Cause there's been times in the past where they like don't want to be separated, but I feel like as they're getting older, they might enjoy that one-on-one time. So. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah, we've definitely seen that with our girls. You know, like I said before, they tend to be little angels when they're by themselves. And it's funny because, you know, if I have all three out in a store, it's like, feels like a million kids. And I have two kids and it feels like two kids. I have one kid out and it feels like no kids. I'm not sure where the dynamic shifted, but it's so real. And I'm like, if I can just bring one of them to the grocery store, it doesn't bother me at all. Jessielee Sittig: Yes. Naomi Zumbrun: And I feel like that fills their cup. But I so often feel like the backlash of, you know, how sister's gonna respond if she's not the one going with me. Even though we take turns, it's like, that's almost not even worth, like the belt down that comes with it almost isn't even worth like the effort of, you know, filling the cup of the other, which. Jessielee Sittig: Hmm. Naomi Zumbrun: It's so horrible to even admit, but it's almost like I'm taking the easy way out more often than I should because it's like, you know, no, I'm just going to go by myself this time, you know, instead of trying to lean into more of like that individual time, which I know I need to be doing better with because it really does, it really does, I think, fill their cup and it makes them feel special. And even if it might be a little inconvenient, like it matters. And I think that really helps to nourish that bond. I was talking about how I felt a little bit robbed of. I think that that continues to support that. so, it's kind of a good reminder for me to be leaning into that more. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Well, and one thing that my neighbor had brought up a while ago that I think is good advice and I haven't implemented it yet and I would like to is they have, so they have four kids, they don't have twins, but they have four children and they have a schedule where every Wednesday a parent takes one kid out. So they switch one Wednesday, it's the mom, the next Wednesday it's the dad and they just go through the kids. you know, Naomi Zumbrun: Hmm. Jessielee Sittig: everyone knows when their turn is and everyone gets a turn that month. And I was like, that is such a cool idea and a way to implement something that is consistent. And they just do something super simple. Like, do you want to go get ice cream after school? Just me and you. Do you want to go to a smoothie shop? Do you want to go? I don't know. It doesn't have to be this like grand thing. It can be something so little as like getting a scoop of ice cream one on one. So I'm like, we need to, we need to implement that schedule and start doing that. So I thought that was cool. And then it's just like worked into your week, you know? Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah, I love that advice and I think that it goes a long way with the kids. You know, those are the things that they're going to remember, like those special memories that you can make together. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Well, and one thing that I ask every twin mom is if you could have a heart-to-heart with another twin mom or give her a piece of advice, what would you say? Naomi Zumbrun: That is a really good question. I feel like in the season of babies, I felt like one thing I really kind of prided myself on was the schedule that we implemented. on, I was like, this is a non-negotiable. We are getting them on the same schedule because I am not willing to wake up a million times a night. Like if one wakes up to want to eat in the middle of the night, I'm going to wake up the other because that means that we'll all get the same stretch of sleep. And there was one day at home where their nap schedules were just like flip-flopped. And I was like, I didn't get a second to myself. And so after that day, I was like, absolutely not. I'm going to get them on a schedule. And I think that most twin moms probably do that anyway. But that was like the best. Jessielee Sittig: so hard. Naomi Zumbrun: thing for me and even to this day like Sunday we were on our way back from Dollywood in Amusement Park and the girls were just exhausted and I'm talking within the same minute like 30 minutes down the road they fell asleep within the same minute like even those things still baffle me I'm like how are they so closely wired to like fall asleep at the same time but it just cracks me up like ⁓ how like together they were with the schedule and I feel like it's been a huge benefit to us. You know, even with our son, like he just kind of by nature, you know, stepped into our schedule. I didn't even really try to sleep train him and he just kind of did it because we had our routine and I think that routine goes a super long way. So that's not really advice for me in this current season, but like for a new mom, that was like huge for me. Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, no, I think that is so important. And like, I just feel like kids brains work well with the routine. Our brains work well with the routine. It's nice to a schedule that has like some flexibility. With Kaia, I tried to do a schedule where it was like nine o'clock nap. And if it was like nine o' one, I'd be like, oh my God, I'm freaking out. Like we're a minute late. And with the boys, I'm like, we have a schedule. Everyone knows what's coming within like 30 minutes. Naomi Zumbrun: Mm-hmm. Yes. Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: And that felt so good to have a structured day with just like a little bit of flexibility. So I think, it's so huge, like for twin moms, like you said, if your twins aren't napping at the same time, if they're not eating at the same time, well girl, you're not gonna get a break. Naomi Zumbrun: Absolutely. None. Yeah, and I love what you said about just like being flexible. It's not about being rigid. Like we have a window of opportunity and sometime in that window it's going to be nap time. And that's that's how we were as well. Like we followed Taking Care of Babies and it was the best thing that we did for our family. And now I know people who follow other programs that are more rigid and they swear by it. But for us, this is what Jessielee Sittig: Yeah, yeah. Naomi Zumbrun: worked really well and you know, I'm thankful that we were so diligent with that. But again, flexible, you know, we didn't like debunk our whole life because we went out to dinner and stayed up past bedtime. Like it was fine, you we made up for it the next day. Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah, well, that's great advice. And it's been so fun to talk today about all the things twin mom life and handling competitive natures between twins and your ⁓ just awesome story pregnancy, ⁓ twin vaginal delivery. ⁓ I didn't get say this earlier, but I have never heard ⁓ of a vaginal with a breach extraction. I haven't heard that yet. I was like, that's amazing. Yeah, so Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Really? Really? Jessielee Sittig: I had my boys vaginally, Waylon was transverse, but he flipped, like he came out head first. So was like, that's cool. That's really cool. Naomi Zumbrun: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild. And what's funny is my husband was, he was our photographer. He had my phone and he took all the photos and they're live photos. And so you can basically see like footage of everything happening and it's pretty graphic. But, you know, I'm kind of thankful that I can like go back and look at. like the miracle it was and is, know, like childbirth in itself is amazing, but the fact that, were able to deliver that way was awesome. Because that was my biggest fear. I did not want to have to recover from both vaginal and C-section. And I think a lot of twin moms feel that. And so ⁓ I was you know, praying the whole time, like I didn't, I didn't want that. And I was like terrified of a C-section for whatever reason. I know it's routine, but I was like, I don't want to have this. So ⁓ anyway. ⁓ Jessielee Sittig: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a full abdominal surgery though. That's what I was afraid of too is, you know, if that was something that I needed to do for everyone's safety, then of course I would have done that. But recovering from birth in general is already hard. And then your body is sore. You're learning how to breastfeed. That is sore. And then having, you know, a full abdominal surgery that, that recovery did scare me. So I understand that for sure. Naomi Zumbrun: It is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Jessielee Sittig: ⁓ well, we could just I'm like, everyone that I talked to him like we need to do a second episode in a couple months or like next year do a recap because we could just talk about this forever. So I really appreciate your time today. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Naomi Zumbrun: I know. Be good. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This has been like the highlight of my day. It's so easy to talk about twins and just connecting with other twin moms is always a blessing. So thank you so much. It's been fun.