Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 102. Building a Writing Community

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102. Building a Writing Community · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:05
  Welcome to the Show Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Vadori, where I peel back the layers of how to wow your readers with your fiction through non-fiction.
• 0:13
  Anybody can bang out a first draft, but it takes a little more work to make your book as amazing as it can be.
• 0:20
  Join me as I share the step-by-step writing techniques you could apply to your writing right away as I host successful writers who share a behind-the-scenes look at their own writing lives and as I live coach writers on their pages, giving practical writing examples that will make your own writing stronger.
• 0:38
  Nobody is born knowing how to write an engaging book.
• 0:42
  There are real and important skills that you need to learn.
• 0:45
  On this show, I cut through the noise and get you all the info you need.
• 0:49
  I can't wait to see how this information is going to transform your writing.
• 0:56
  Today on the Show Don't Tell writing podcast, we are going to be talking all about community.
• 1:01
  Do you need it?
• 1:02
  Why do you need it?
• 1:03
  What place does community have in this super solo solitary job or hobby that we have as writers?
• 1:13
  And I think it really does have a place, and this might really open up your eyes.
• 1:18
  I brought on the episode today my very dear friend and fellow book coach, Stephanie Dethlefs, who is an absolutely amazing leader and doing all the things, and has built an incredible community around herself.
• 1:34
  We're gonna talk about that today and why she did that and how it helps the writers that she serves.
• 1:39
  Stephanie is a writer, a writing coach, and a teacher, and through her online community and personalized one-on-one coaching, Stephanie strives to help people with stories on their hearts get them out of their heads and onto the page with ease and self-compassion.
• 1:52
  She's the author of the middle grade novel Unspoken, and her stories, essays, and articles can be found in a number of regional and national publications.
• 2:01
  She lives with her family in the Pacific Northwest, and you can find her on Substack, and we will put the link to that Substack in the show notes.
• 2:09
  Please welcome Stephanie.
• 2:10
  If you have been thinking about community, wondering if it's for you, wondering how you could use it, this episode's for you.
• 2:17
  Enjoy.
• 2:18
  Welcome.
• 2:19
  Thank you.
• 2:19
  I'm so glad to be here, Suzy.
• 2:21
  And last year you came on and talked about getting started and how to start your writing process, and we're gonna link to that episode in the show notes, so when you love listening to Stephanie, then you need to go and listen to that one too.
• 2:32
  It's this awesome interview.
• 2:34
  But this one was born when we were discussing in Denver, we were recently together at a book coaching conference.
• 2:41
  Love being in community, right?
• 2:43
  We're gonna talk about this.
• 2:44
  Love being in community with my colleagues, with writers.
• 2:46
  It's just such an amazing vibe, and Steph had the idea to talk about that here, and I think that's really, really cool.
• 2:55
  So you had me at community.
• 2:57
  I think community might be actually at the heart of everything that I do in life, not just ... I mean, definitely with my writing career and, um, with my b- you know, with my coaching business.
• 3:07
  But what are we talking about here when we talk about community?
• 3:10
  What do you, what do you mean by community?
• 3:11
  What do we mean by community?
• 3:13
  Do you wanna just define that for our listeners?
• 3:15
  Sure.
• 3:15
  Well, I think for me community is being with people who get it.
• 3:20
  I think I said that when we were in Denver.
• 3:23
  We were going around the table, and people were saying why, why they were excited to be there on the first day, and I said, "I'm just excited to be in a room with people who get it and who understand this thing that we do." And it's the same with writers, you know?
• 3:37
  We tend to write in isolation.
• 3:39
  We don't often have people in our lives who also write.
• 3:44
  Sometimes we do, sometimes we're lucky, but most people that I chat with are like, "Yeah, you know, my spouse doesn't get it. My kids don't get it. My mom doesn't get it," whoever.
• 3:54
  And so I think finding your writing community is just about finding the people who get it.
• 4:01
  Yeah, and, and you know, when my son was younger he said something to me like, "Yeah, I never wanna be a writer.
• 4:06
  I don't know what I wanna do with my life, but not that." And I was like, "Why not?" Right.
• 4:09
  You know?
• 4:10
  Like, totally insulted.
• 4:11
  And he said, "Mom, you sit at the kitchen table for, like, 12 hours at a time," and I'm like, "Well, I'm happy in my head." Like, I don't know.
• 4:19
  I, that, that's awesome, right?
• 4:21
  Like, at the time.
• 4:22
  I don't write in the kitchen anymore, but, um- Right ... yeah, that's, that's ... It is about getting it.
• 4:27
  And the other thing I will share is when I first started going to writers conferences I experienced that same thing where I was like, "Oh, people get it," and I had spent I mean, I was a, an executive, but one that didn't always fit in.
• 4:38
  I was really good at my job, but you know, you, you kind of squash down pieces of your personality, and one of the things that I would, like, kind of learned early in my career and maybe even in grade school to be honest, was sometimes my brain went to places that I thought were hilarious, and if I said them out loud people wouldn't get it, right?
• 4:57
  And then I started going to writers conferences, and that pun that I was thinking ... So I'd learned to edit it out.
• 5:01
  It still happened in my head, but I didn't always say it.
• 5:04
  And then all of a sudden I was in a room where, you know, there's this, like, low-hanging pun or something, and somebody else said it.
• 5:13
  And I was like, "What?
• 5:14
  These are my people," right?
• 5:15
  Right.
• 5:15
  And s- I was like- Yeah ... I've never been, I'd never experienced that before being in community with writers- Yeah... to say, okay, I'm not that different.
• 5:24
  And that's not to say- Right ... that your spouse ... Sorry, I was gonna say not to say that your spouse can't, or your family members or your friends aren't supportive of your writing.
• 5:30
  That's different.
• 5:31
  And maybe they'll even read it, but that doesn't mean that they understand why you would spend 10 hours or 12 hours at the kitchen table writing.
• 5:40
  They don't get it, right?
• 5:42
  Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 5:43
  And I, you know, certainly I am really lucky.
• 5:46
  I have a lot of supportive people in my life, but also there's this thing about writing where- The process is 90% of it.
• 5:57
  You know, the product at the end, the thing that you are working on, the thing that you hopefully eventually finish and put out into the world, the finishing of it and the putting it out into the world is just one part of this thing that we do.
• 6:13
  And so much of it is about showing up for our ideas, showing up for those silly ideas that we have in our heads, showing up just for ourselves and to allow ourselves to be this creative person and to value that and to see why it's important.
• 6:31
  And a lot of times in trying to be supportive, people will say things like, "So how's your book coming?" Meaning, like, are you almost done?
• 6:41
  When can I read it?
• 6:42
  Are we there yet?
• 6:43
  Yeah.
• 6:43
  Are we there yet?
• 6:44
  Are we there yet?
• 6:44
  Yeah.
• 6:45
  And, and I can answer that question, but also I wanna talk about, oh, you know, today I sat down, and the noise in my head about not being good enough and being afraid were really loud, and it was really hard, but I got through it.
• 6:59
  I wanna talk about that stuff, but that's the thing that sometimes people that don't live in this world or, or do this kind of creative work, that's the sort of stuff that they don't tend to understand, so.
• 7:12
  Yeah, finding people.
• 7:13
  I, I think you nailed it on the head.
• 7:14
  You said something to the effect just a moment ago about writing is a solitary activity.
• 7:19
  So how does that sort of... Okay, so you talked a little bit about finding people that get it and all of these things, but writing is a solitary activity.
• 7:27
  So where does community come in, and how do those two things sort of mesh together for you?
• 7:33
  Well, this is so funny.
• 7:34
  I can speak to this because I, we know each other pretty well, Suzy.
• 7:38
  You are very- Yeah, we do ... you're very extroverted.
• 7:41
  I know you like your alone time and your time to write, too, but, and I am not.
• 7:46
  I'm very introverted, and so I can do the group thing, and then I need to go take a nap, you know?
• 7:53
  Yeah.
• 7:53
  So, so I think that there, you know, there's a sort of stereotype of writers being introverted, and I don't, we aren't all, clearly.
• 8:02
  Well, most are, and that's a different- We- we're different ... that's a different, I, I think I'm, again, the one that doesn't belong, but keep going.
• 8:07
  Yeah, you're a little bit of an anomaly.
• 8:10
  Yeah.
• 8:10
  Um, which is a beautiful thing.
• 8:12
  I think for me, I have to- Or I've had to push myself.
• 8:18
  It's been a stretch for myself to reach out to people and make those connections.
• 8:25
  So it's not a stretch for me to spend a morning in my chair writing.
• 8:32
  Like- Yeah ... that, that's not a stretch for me.
• 8:35
  It's a stretch for some, some people,'cause they're like, "Ah, I need somebody to talk to." But being alone for days on end, that's not a stretch for me.
• 8:43
  But a stretch for me is having to reach out and find those people.
• 8:47
  But what that does is it enriches my time where I'm writing by myself, because I know I'm not alone, and I know that other people, just because I've talked with them and we've shared the experience, I know that other people have the same doubts that I have, and the same fears of not being good enough, not being talented enough, not, my story not being interesting enough, my first draft is terrible.
• 9:17
  All of these things are totally normal But you don't realize that if you're just sitting in a chair by yourself writing all the time and not talking to anybody about it, right?
• 9:28
  Yeah, and it's really hard, and, and you talk about a couple of things there, and, and I experience all of those fears and things as well.
• 9:36
  Yeah.
• 9:36
  And I mask them differently, but definitely I experience all of that, and even you just, you know, bearing witness to you saying that is so powerful, and I'm sure that our listeners are like, "Woo, that's me as well," right?
• 9:47
  Um, so- It's all of us ... yeah, and no matter what walk ... I mean, there's so many different types of people, and I say types specifically because we all bring different skills to the table, but that call to write is actually very similar for a lot of us, and that, that urge to write or that, uh, I call it a calling 'cause there's no other way to describe it.
• 10:08
  You know that you're going to write a book.
• 10:11
  You must write the book.
• 10:12
  And if you don't feel that, sometimes I s- I'm like, "Well, then don't do it 'cause it's hard," right?
• 10:16
  Like ... But knowing that that's universal regardless of how your brain works, regardless of how your social interaction tolerance works, regardless of all of those things.
• 10:26
  And it was funny because I was at a conference once, and again, community, right?
• 10:30
  And, you know, we talked about me being extroverted, and sometimes people joke that I'm the only extroverted writer in Canada.
• 10:36
  And of course it's not true, but I am quite extroverted.
• 10:39
  And so for me in a crowd, that's a superpower because I can do that.
• 10:43
  Now, that doesn't mean I don't get tired.
• 10:44
  I still need to rest, but I'm, uh, those things that drain some people are actually fueling me.
• 10:49
  And I had a writer, uh, Brandon Mull was one of our guests, and he pulled me aside on, like, sort of Saturday of the conference.
• 10:56
  He's like, "I need to talk to you." I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "Come have breakfast with me." So I go, "Okay, fine." Like, uh, so I had breakfast with Brandon Mull, and he said, "I've been watching you all weekend, and you're, like, maybe one of the most extroverted people I've ever seen, and I, I wanna know why you're a writer 'cause I don't understand." And he wanted to have this conversation.
• 11:16
  And he's like, "'Cause, you know, for me ... " And, and I, I was like, "I don't know." And he ... It was a great question, and I had to go away and think about it.
• 11:22
  I'm like, "Let me think about it," right?
• 11:24
  And, and when I went back the next day I figured out that one of the things for me was I learned, again, editing my own conversations, I learned pretty early on that there's nobody on this planet, love my husband, he can't do it, that wants all of me all the time.
• 11:39
  Uh, so, but I'm not gonna make myself small, but I gotta have somewhere else to put my thoughts, and, and that's how I started writing.
• 11:45
  And so he was like, "That's a good answer." So- Yeah ... if you're fans of Brandon Mull, uh, his work is amazing.
• 11:51
  It was a really fun conversation where he was teasing me but also, like, seriously, genuinely, "What's up?" Yeah.
• 11:58
  I mean, we all have our different reasons for doing this thing, right?
• 12:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:02
  I was just having a conversation with someone else before you and I got on this call here where we were calling it an itch.
• 12:10
  Like, it's an itch- Yeah ... that you just, you have to do something with.
• 12:14
  And I don't think it really matters that much- Why, right?
• 12:20
  It's just more about knowing that that itch is something to pay attention to.
• 12:27
  It wants- Yeah ... something from you.
• 12:29
  And the chance to talk to other writers is so fascinating because you get to hear about their itch, which sounds a little gross now that I'm saying that out loud, but you know what I mean.
• 12:40
  It's, I'm gonna use that as the headline for the podcast.
• 12:43
  Yes.
• 12:44
  Stephanie Talks About- Writing Itch.
• 12:46
  Yeah.
• 12:46
  Okay, so you've worked with so many writers over the years, and what roadblocks come up when you're working one-on-one with a writer or in one of your group programs for writers that you see all the time where you think community might be the answer?
• 13:02
  Like, what does it look like if people are listening to this podcast and they're like, "Ooh, I maybe don't pay enough attention to community 'cause I've been doing this thing on my own," what does it look like when community might be helpful?
• 13:13
  What are those behaviors or what are you ex- what do you think writers experience that they should be paying attention to?
• 13:19
  Yeah, that's a great question.
• 13:21
  I think... Well, one thing that's coming to mind, I had this client, we still work together on and off, she's revising right now, where she had been working on this one book for so, so long, like decades, and just it wasn't coming, it wasn't coming, and she kept kind of putting it off, putting it off.
• 13:43
  And when she came to me, it was very much this point where she'd hit a crossroads, like either I'm gonna do this or I'm not gonna do it, and I want to do it.
• 13:53
  And at that point, she had been working on and off on this book for a couple of decades at least, and she kept saying to me, "But I'm not really a writer." And I was like, I mean, it kind of took me aback because I was like, "But you're writing a book.
• 14:13
  You are a writer." And it took, I mean, we worked together for a couple of years to get her through her first draft and her first revision, and now she's finally saying out loud to me on purpose, "I am a writer." Like when we see each other, she says,"By the way, I'm a writer." Yeah.
• 14:35
  I'm like, "I know you are." And I think, you know, that kind of growth can come, that kind of self-actualization, I guess, can come from working with a coach.
• 14:47
  But I think part of the reason people think, "I'm not a writer," is because they see projected out there in the world what a, quote-unquote, "real writer" is, right?
• 15:01
  Yeah.
• 15:01
  It's somebody who's on the bookshelves already.
• 15:04
  It's somebody who's written bestsellers.
• 15:06
  It's somebody whose name is known to readers across the country or across the world.
• 15:12
  And once you get into community with working writers, you see that we're all in this together.
• 15:22
  Whether you've got something published already or not isn't the point.
• 15:26
  It's about putting words on the page and getting, kind of learning to get out of your own way, in a sense, and just owning this thing that we do, which can be easy for some people, right?
• 15:42
  Some people have an innate confidence that, yeah, I know what I'm doing, and I've got this.
• 15:48
  But most of us, I would say like 99.9% of us, think that we need to have earned the title of writer somehow, and you earn it by doing it, right?
• 16:03
  So- Yeah ... so I think that getting to know other writers who are at different stages of the process and not just looking to people who have gotten six-figure deals and saying,"Oh, that's a writer. I'm not a writer until I've achieved that," it just is so valuable to see, no, we're all doing it our own way, and we're all writers.
• 16:25
  And we all have different goals and different, you know, reasons for doing this, and so success doesn't look the same for everybody.
• 16:33
  It's something that, you know, I know you work with your clients on, I work with my clients on, we both feel really strongly about.
• 16:38
  It, it's not about the ... yeah, you know, I have clients who've done that, who've d- who've gotten the big book deals, but only when they choose that, and then they make all the choices along the way, and they're willing to do all the things to, to get there.
• 16:52
  But mo- many writers have different goals, and the ... because at the heart ... okay, so something was just ke- coming up when you were talking there, which is, I mean, at the heart of this thing, that itch, that desire to write a book, is really that we're trying to have a conversation with the world.
• 17:08
  And, and so if you haven't thought about this for, at all as a writer, listeners, okay, out there, dear listeners, if you haven't thought about this at all, know that you probably, well, I can almost guarantee that you are trying to start a conversation with the world.
• 17:21
  And so that is, by definition, community.
• 17:24
  So whether you're doing that by yourself, writing it down, at some point this book will be your window or your bridge into the world with your readers.
• 17:36
  And so starting that community earlier and getting as much sort of support, feedback, all those things, is a good thing to practice, especially if community is not something that's easy for you Right?
• 17:47
  Does that resonate?
• 17:48
  Does that resonate?
• 17:48
  And that's where things like critique groups or early readers or beta readers, that's where that piece of the writing community, which we can talk about the different ways to find community- Yeah, for sure ... but having somebody read your early work when you're ready to share it, I think is how you start to understand the other side of the conversation, right?
• 18:16
  Because when you're drafting, you're having a one-sided conversation with, with your world, with the readers, and you know what you hope that they're going to, how they're going to respond, but you don't know until people start to read it.
• 18:30
  You know, a lot of us are afraid of getting that feedback, and we have a lot of thoughts and feelings about it, and certainly there are strategies for making it the most effective for you.
• 18:41
  But I think having it, getting those bits of feedback early, it starts the conversation.
• 18:48
  Yeah.
• 18:49
  I love the idea of that.
• 18:50
  Yeah, abs- absolutely.
• 18:52
  Okay, so we're gonna talk about, in a moment, all the different kinds, and we've kind of thrown a few out there.
• 18:58
  If your head is swimming, right, there's sc- there's conferences and there's critique groups, and we haven't talked about others yet, and Stephanie has programs too, right?
• 19:06
  But what should, before we get there and sort of get down to brass tacks about what a community looks like or could look like, what should writers actually look for in a community?
• 19:15
  Because I think this is, this is part of why you wanted to have this discussion, right?
• 19:19
  When writers are out there and they're like, "Okay, I need community, yes," and they listen to this podcast, and then they go out and sign up for the first community that they find and they say,"Ooh, this is not the right place for me," I mean, there's so many ways to look at this and there's so many coaches out there and so many different organizations.
• 19:35
  What should they be looking for?
• 19:36
  What are, what are the things to pay attention to, first of all?
• 19:39
  I think that the most important thing to pay attention to is what we want, right?
• 19:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:45
  Because you're right, there are so many different ways to tap into a writing community that already exists or to develop your own by pulling one person in at a time.
• 19:57
  I think that what is most valuable if your listener is someone who is writing alone at their dining room table and they, they don't really feel like they have everything that they want in a writing community, I would recommend maybe doing some free writing about it.
• 20:17
  Maybe if there is a trusted person, maybe talking it through with them.
• 20:21
  But discovering, you know, what is it that I want?
• 20:24
  Do I want somebody who und- do I just want somebody to talk to who understands the highs and lows of writing, and it doesn't really matter what genre they're writing in, but I just, I wanna be able to have open conversations about pro- the process?
• 20:39
  Do I need feedback on my specific project, and am I ready to give feedback to other people?
• 20:46
  Those are two different questions.
• 20:48
  I always want feedback, but giving feedback to other people, I'm very busy.
• 20:52
  Right.
• 20:52
  I mean, I do it as a coach, but, like, I don't have time just, you know, to, to join 80 critique groups.
• 20:58
  I'd love to, um- Right ... but I can't do it.
• 21:01
  Right.
• 21:02
  Yeah.
• 21:02
  And so you can ... You know, bringing a coach into your, into your writing life is certainly part of community, and that can be a one-sided, "I'm receiving feedback and I don't have to also give it." I think, you know, sometimes we want to be in a group with people or in partnership with people that are writing the same genre as us.
• 21:23
  I just started meeting regularly with a fellow book coach of ours who is writing a memoir project very similar to mine in both structure, which we knew, and topic, which we did not realize.
• 21:37
  So that's been really fun just to kind of go, "This is what I'm stuck on. What are you stuck on?" And just being able to talk through the, the framework of the project itself without even looking at each other's pages.
• 21:49
  That's not the point of why we're talking to each other.
• 21:52
  And so I think how to go about finding those people is one thing, but I think before you ever start to do that, the key is to figure out what it is you're looking for, because otherwise you are likely to end up in dead ends and then not sure why.
• 22:10
  Yeah, and not all communities are structured the same.
• 22:12
  I think something that's interesting that as you were talking there, at this point in your career, you know what you need is to talk to somebody who has the same skill level as you about some pretty high level and deep things, right?
• 22:26
  And so it also depends on your skill level and how long you've been doing this.
• 22:30
  I think one of the flags, and we can talk about if there's other flags in the community, because they, they can also be harmful.
• 22:36
  Not all communities are, are built the same way.
• 22:38
  And I say that because I've just worked with so many writers who, you know, either had a poor experience in a group community once because somebody without the skill set, you know, tore them a new one 'cause that's what they thought a critique partner was supposed to do.
• 22:52
  But I don't wanna go down too big a rabbit hole here, but it can happen, right?
• 22:56
  Where so pay attention to what your skill level is and what you might need.
• 23:00
  For Stephan- you know, Stephanie supports many writers, but for her to get support on her own writing, she needs a certain level of skill level to be helpful, right?
• 23:09
  So pay attention to that as well, because they're not all created the same.
• 23:13
  Yeah, and I think- Um, any other flags for you?
• 23:15
  Sorry, go ahead.
• 23:16
  Yeah, I ... No, I, we're talking over each other.
• 23:18
  I think that what you said about- Red flags is really important in general because if we can, as we search for community in any area of our lives, it's really important to pay attention to our gut feelings when we're in that space, when we're talking to those people, and to not be afraid to break it off, right?
• 23:44
  Yeah.
• 23:44
  Like, you dump that critique partner if they're ripping you a new one.
• 23:49
  Right.
• 23:49
  Right?
• 23:49
  This is not, this is not part of the writer, universal writer experience- No ... that Hollywood wants you to think that you have to be, you know, take these notes.
• 23:59
  And, uh, you know, if you have the opportunity to give feedback to other people, please don't be that person either.
• 24:04
  Right.
• 24:04
  Um- Right ... because it's a very vulnerable position and we always- Yes ... come at it from a standpoint of how can I... Okay, here's where you're at, and maybe you don't have the skill level yet and maybe not, but who cares?
• 24:15
  You got a great idea.
• 24:16
  You're doing the thing that so many people don't do, so let's meet you where you're at and lift you up, right?
• 24:23
  So yeah, so make sure that any community that you're in, like Stephanie said, pay attention to your gut feelings.
• 24:28
  If you're in a community and it's not a positive, additive experience, I mean, maybe give it a second chance and, and talk to the facilitator or the organizer about what it is and see if you can make it work.
• 24:38
  But if it's not, move on 'cause there's a lot of other things out there.
• 24:42
  Okay, so I know that you've been thinking about this for a long time, and we are each unique people as coaches, and we have very different, you know, we, we joke about this but we have very different personalities and things.
• 24:55
  Not that we have different philosophies, but we go about things very differently.
• 24:59
  But I know that you've been very intentional building a community for yourself.
• 25:04
  Do you wanna talk a little bit about what that is and what you're doing that's a little bit different and what, what you're building for writers right now?
• 25:12
  Yeah.
• 25:13
  So I'll start with talking about my own journey a little bit as a writer, which is that I was very much in isolation for a very long time, and I couldn't get myself over the speed bump that was all the thoughts in my head about, like I was saying before, am I good enough?
• 25:40
  Does anybody wanna read this?
• 25:42
  Why aren't I writing when I have this itch, when I have this desire?
• 25:47
  Why can't I make myself do it?
• 25:49
  And just really kind of beating myself up, and in this repetitive cycle of that.
• 25:57
  Then, about 10 years ago maybe, 11 years ago- Yeah, that's why I wanted to interrupt and say that's not you now.
• 26:04
  That was a decade ago, right?
• 26:06
  So, yeah.
• 26:07
  Right.
• 26:08
  Although, I think it is important to say that those thoughts continue to come up.
• 26:13
  They come back.
• 26:13
  It's just, that's just how our brains work, and so there's this point where I just realized, oh, there's my brain making that noise again.
• 26:21
  I don't have to listen to it.
• 26:23
  Yeah.
• 26:23
  But it's there.
• 26:24
  It's not that important.
• 26:26
  It's not that, it's not that correct, right?
• 26:28
  Right.
• 26:28
  And it's stopping me- Right, so it's- ... from doing what I want.
• 26:30
  Yeah.
• 26:30
  It's not like there's a, a milestone by which you never have those thoughts anymore.
• 26:36
  It's just that you learn how to write anyway, even though you're having those thoughts.
• 26:42
  So then, like, 10 or 11 years ago, I was invited to join a small critique group for people that, uh, by a friend of mine locally, who was bringing together people who were enjoying writing creative nonfiction, personal essays and- Okay ... and whatnot, and we would come together and share.
• 26:59
  And what I realized in that group, well, first of all, we became dear, dear friends, but also, I realized that I wasn't alone in all of that.
• 27:12
  And that was really the beginning of this entire journey of working with other writers.
• 27:17
  I mean, I was teaching elementary school, so I was teaching kids to write, but the thing about kids is that they don't think, they don't have any of that fear.
• 27:25
  They're just like, "I'm the best." They think their writing is amazing.
• 27:28
  Yeah.
• 27:29
  Yeah.
• 27:29
  "I wrote the best story ever." And so, yeah.
• 27:31
  So coming together with adults and realizing, oh, I'm not alone in this, was huge.
• 27:37
  And so then I s- kind of went on this journey of, you know, what is it that I'm looking for?
• 27:43
  I started taking a lot of writing classes.
• 27:46
  Some of them were great, some of them weren't great, and some of them were really not what I was looking for.
• 27:52
  Because I was looking for people to talk to, but instead I was getting lectured at by a teacher, which wasn't, which is great for what that is, but it wasn't what I was looking for.
• 28:02
  What I wanted to do- It wasn't what you were missing.
• 28:04
  Yeah Yeah ... was connect with people.
• 28:05
  So then I started doing, this is, I started, during COVID, I took a Zoom class, a writing class, and I decided going into it that I was gonna listen to everybody's introductions.
• 28:19
  And when I heard somebody talk and I felt a connection with them, I wrote down their name, and then I direct messaged them in the chat and was like, "This is weird, but do you wanna get together sometime and talk about writing?" I love that you did that, Steph,'cause like you said, we've known each other a long time, since 2020.
• 28:40
  Yeah.
• 28:41
  And, you know, I just wanna say that I recognize how difficult that would've been.
• 28:48
  You're not doing it in a spammy way.
• 28:49
  Like, that was a, a big thing that you did, right?
• 28:52
  Yeah.
• 28:52
  Yeah.
• 28:52
  And I just, I set myself up for success.
• 28:55
  I was like, if they say no, it's fine.
• 28:56
  It's ... I don't know these people, so.
• 28:58
  But more people than not were like,"Oh my God, I would love that." Yay.
• 29:03
  And so then we would arrange a little Zoom meeting.
• 29:06
  So now I have this little group of people that I meet with every week on Zoom, and we write together and we talk about writing.
• 29:13
  And so for me, I realized what it was that I was looking for, and I realized that I had to build that for myself.
• 29:22
  And so could I figure out as a coach, as someone who holds space for other writers, can I figure out a way to create a container for other people to find that, find the things that they're looking for- Yeah beyond just feedback?
• 29:41
  'Cause there are a lot of ways to go about finding people to give you feedback, and that's a whole other conversation that we could have another time, or you've probably had with your listeners already.
• 29:52
  Yeah.
• 29:52
  Well, we do have a crit- if you're interested in that, Julie Arts came on the podcast- She's great to talk about critique partners and how- Yeah ... to be a critique partner, so we'll, we'll link to that one.
• 30:01
  But yeah- Sure ... I agree.
• 30:02
  That's what I was saying earlier, ooh, this is a whole can of worms on critique partners.
• 30:05
  Yeah, it's a whole can of worms.
• 30:06
  But yeah, so what was it that you wanted to create that isn't already out there?
• 30:11
  'Cause I think what's unique about what you, the way that you coach is actually how intentional you are about creating a space that doesn't exist because of your own experiences, right?
• 30:21
  Which is why you needed to share that part first.
• 30:23
  Yeah.
• 30:24
  So what are the things that you didn't find or that you think are just really resonant that you wanna offer for those writers who need them?
• 30:32
  Yeah, so I wanted to build a space where a writer could come.
• 30:38
  I sort of think of it like a yoga studio, where if you're looking for, if you're looking for just a me- an hour to meditate, you can have that.
• 30:48
  If you're looking for, like, power yoga, you can get that, but it's all in the same space.
• 30:53
  Okay.
• 30:54
  So I wanted to build a space where someone could come and, you know, have a lot of options in front of them for the week ahead for things that they might like to do.
• 31:07
  Like, maybe they just want to co-write with someone, right?
• 31:12
  Show up, be writing on our own, but in the same space and time as someone else, because that can help with motivation.
• 31:19
  Maybe they're looking for, like I was talking about, just an opportunity to sit and talk about writing.
• 31:26
  Like, let's just talk about what's going on right now with all of us and hear- Like a coffee shop, yeah and hear, yeah, hear each other's conversations.
• 31:32
  Let's have times where we do, you know, writing sprints, like kind of a workout, like a boot camp.
• 31:39
  Let's have times where we meditate, specifically focusing on creativity.
• 31:45
  Let's have times where we give each other really gentle, supportive feedback, not, that is guided in order to support, and not, not take away from, you know- Yeah the desire to write.
• 31:57
  And so if I had unlimited funds, I would w- buy a piece of property, have a little adorable English cottage on that property with beautiful gardens, and I would just open the doors and say,"Come in. Come in. Let's do all of these things." I don't have unlimited funds.
• 32:17
  Not yet.
• 32:17
  Unfortunately.
• 32:18
  Darn it.
• 32:19
  And so I decided to try to simulate that on the internet.
• 32:25
  And so what I've created is this program called The Writer's Cottage, and members join for, like, on a monthly basis.
• 32:34
  And every month there's a schedule of, here are all of your options.
• 32:40
  You can come and do co-writing.
• 32:42
  Just show up, camera's off.
• 32:44
  We're all here together writing.
• 32:46
  There are times, like I said, where we have gentle feedback, where we do these writing sprints.
• 32:52
  We're adding in meditation sessions for writers.
• 32:55
  We have gentle feedback sessions.
• 32:58
  We have this once-a-week meeting called Afternoon Tea, which is just show up with your favorite beverage, depending on what time it is in your part of the world, and we're just gonna talk about it.
• 33:11
  We're just gonna ... Like, no agenda, just what's going on.
• 33:15
  Let's go around the room and share what's, what's happening for each of us and, you know, try to support each other and answer each other's questions.
• 33:22
  We have a message board where people have access to each other 24/7.
• 33:27
  We have a resource channel within that where people are dropping, like, recommended books and recommended classes and all this kind of stuff.
• 33:36
  So it's not an instructional space, it's a supportive space.
• 33:40
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  And it's a space in which ... You know, one thing I love is two members who happen to be in the same city have already met for coffee in person, and this delights me to no end, so- Oh, it's just- Yeah, it's- ... like one of those things that pays it forward, right?
• 33:55
  Yeah.
• 33:56
  From all the spaces that were created for yourself.
• 33:58
  And I- I'm such a visual person.
• 34:00
  I just can picture this cottage.
• 34:02
  But I'm also fighting the urge to make a I'm Coming to the Cottage heated rivalry.
• 34:06
  Oh, well, you know.
• 34:07
  It's, it's, it's a different- Yeah It's still a literary reference, but I think- It is it's a different vibe at that cottage.
• 34:12
  But this cottage- If you know, you know ... sounds amazing.
• 34:14
  Yeah.
• 34:14
  If you know, you know.
• 34:15
  Uh, you can Google it if you don't.
• 34:16
  But yeah, there's, there's this amazing vibe that you're creating, which is why it was my immense privilege as one of your community members in a different space as a colleague to watch you put this program together and to be so intentional.
• 34:31
  And the fact that, you know, when you came up with the concept of the Writer's Cottage and the name, it was just like, ah, like that is so fitting for you and for the writers that you support.
• 34:41
  And I'm just so excited that you've put together this program.
• 34:44
  It's exciting.
• 34:45
  Okay.
• 34:46
  So I also was tal- You, you know, when you were talking about your writing you said that you used to coach students to write and teach students to write, and it was totally different.
• 34:55
  So I remember you saying that you had, you know, as a teacher you would teach kids to go from deeply doubting that they could be a writer to believing that they were a writer, and now you're doing that for your communities, right?
• 35:10
  Like, it's, it's kind of awesome.
• 35:12
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  And that's really ... You know, at the end of the day if I can help someone see themselves as a writer, that's equally important.
• 35:24
  I won't say more important, although I'm tempted to.
• 35:27
  It's equally as important as helping them finish their project.
• 35:31
  Because seeing themselves as a writer is what is gonna sustain them beyond this project.
• 35:37
  We could power through this book.
• 35:40
  We could push and push and push- And then they could, at the end of it, birth this book, and then be like, "I'm never doing that again." Yeah.
• 35:50
  Right?
• 35:50
  Which is fair if that's their choice, but if they can find a way to kind of be, find some softness around it, find some playfulness around it, find some joy around it, then they're more likely to wanna keep writing and keep honoring that part of them that's so creative and so imaginative and, and has that desire to share stories with the world, whether they're true stories or fictional stories, and to continue to connect with readers on that level.
• 36:23
  And so my ultimate goal, and why I think community is so important, is because that's what creates a sustainable writing life- Yeah ... as opposed to just more of a power push through to get a project done, and staying kind of single-focused on that versus looking at it as a holistic thing like, "This is part of me.
• 36:46
  This is part of my life." Yeah.
• 36:49
  Absolutely, and I think, you know, you, you nailed so many things in that statement, but I, I just wanted to say as well that piece that we talked about earlier, that itch that you wanna scratch, many writers will say that... And this is what it might look like for you listeners right now if you're wondering, ooh, maybe it's time to have community.
• 37:09
  It's a bit of a challenge I'm gonna throw out there because we can tell ourselves, and many writers will say,"Oh, I'm writing just for myself, and it doesn't really matter if anybody ever reads it, and it doesn't really matter if it's good. It's good enough for me, and I'm happy with that." But I want to challenge you because if you're feeling that itch and you, you want to have that conversation with the world, it doesn't just happen, right?
• 37:29
  And so I think even if you're saying that you want to write just for yourself, I want you to really look inward and, and be like, well, okay, that might be true, but what if probably you secretly hope that even though you didn't do, you know, you didn't ask anybody, and even though you were writing for yourself, somebody's gonna find it and share it, love it, and share it with their friends?
• 37:53
  But that doesn't just happen, and so there's a bit of a skill.
• 37:56
  Like, there are real and true skills to learn, and I don't know how much-- I know it's not a teaching community necessarily, but I, I'm sure that you're coaching in the Writer's Cottage.
• 38:06
  Yeah.
• 38:07
  Obviously.
• 38:07
  I still coach, and I teach classes, and I do all of the things.
• 38:11
  The Writer's Cottage itself is more of a focused-- it's more focused on that community and support.
• 38:19
  But the thing is that once you've got those people around you, you have access to safe early readers- Now because you know them and they know you, and you know the kinds of questions that you want to ask them, like maybe you wanna say, "Can you read this and only tell me the good things?" Right?
• 38:43
  Yeah.
• 38:43
  Ask, be- And somebody- Like be specific about what you need, right?
• 38:46
  Yeah.
• 38:46
  What I need is to be complimented, so please tell me all the good things in these five pages.
• 38:52
  And, or what I h- need is I have a question about this one paragraph.
• 38:58
  Can you help me with that?
• 38:59
  You know, I don't want the rest of it.
• 39:01
  But it's about having those people in your corner already so that then when you have specific questions like, "Oh, I'm struggling with writing dialogue," then those people, either they can, they can be someone who can help you or they have resources that they've used to become better at writing dialogue.
• 39:23
  Or there's a coach in the program who's, you know, facilitating the program who if you wanna take it to the next level is there for you.
• 39:31
  So you just have started to build this group of people around you who know, who ... It becomes a spider web, right?
• 39:39
  It just keeps going out and out, and it, or ripples, I guess, and it, it just is gonna bring more and more resources into your world.
• 39:49
  Yeah.
• 39:49
  I just can't wait to see where you take the Writer's Cottage.
• 39:52
  Um, I can envision you planting a lot of new flowers every single season and, and just watching it bloom and grow.
• 40:00
  Where can we find you and your programs, your coaching, all of it, your writing- Yeah ... everything?
• 40:05
  So, um, my website is StephanieDethlefs.com.
• 40:09
  The Writer's Cottage and my coaching services and my writing are all there.
• 40:14
  I also am on Substack.
• 40:16
  You'll see that I have a Writer's Cottage newsletter, and I also have a newsletter that's for my own writing.
• 40:23
  So anybody that wants to find me on the internet, it's either Substack or my website.
• 40:29
  Amazing.
• 40:29
  Thank you so much for sharing this really unique perspective.
• 40:33
  I think it's really important for writers to understand that there's lots of different spaces and different vibes out there, and the one that you've created is so unique, and it's gonna be so valuable to all the writers that participate.
• 40:45
  Thank you so much- Thanks for coming on... Suzy.
• 40:52
  Thanks for tuning in to the Show, Don't Tell writing podcast with me, Suzy Fiedorie.
• 40:57
  It is my absolute honor to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or the book that you're planning to write.
• 41:04
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• 41:08
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• 41:17
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• 41:19
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• 41:26
  where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about all the upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 41:34
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• 41:35
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• 41:41
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• 41:51
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• 41:52
  Remember, that book you're writing is gonna open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make that it the absolute best it can be.
• 42:02
  See you again right here next week.