Latest / PoshUnfiltered / PoshUnfiltered Ep1: Luke Williams - The Night That Completely Changed My Life

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PoshUnfiltered Ep1: Luke Williams - The Night That Completely Changed My Life · PoshUnfiltered

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to a new series of Posh Unfiltered.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Phil, and this series I'm going to be joined by a host of co-presenters.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: And today we start with a bona fide posh legend.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: He nearly got to$100 in his first spell at the football club, came back to try and get there, still didn't, and then came back again and then scored his 100th goal with a cross.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know whether that makes him qualified or not, but welcome Craig McCal Smith.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Craig, we're joined today by our first team manager, Luke Williams.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Best to start with the best, right?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: So hence why Luke has joined us.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we're going to have a uh a conversation throughout this podcast about Luke's life and how he's got to this point.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're trying to make it non-football heavy because we do a lot of interviews about a lot of things here at the football club.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I suppose that the first thing um Luke is is to sort of welcome you to the podcast first and foremost.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: And when you reflect on where you are in your life now, how do you how do you view it?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um great question at the start.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm constrained, are you happy or sad?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very happy.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like I I've still got a lot to try and achieve, and maybe I achieved some things already.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm I'm in the middle.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's interesting, isn't it, Craig?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: When you when you try and if someone says that to you, I want you to tell me how happy or sad you are with your life.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a big question, isn't it?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's always room for improvements.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously, you're a former player and and are now sort of enjoying the throngs of retirement.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel any any form of missing the game?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did when I first came out of it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I don't know.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had an amazing time in it, and I'm learning so much more since I've retired.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, looking back and actually really taking stock of what I did, what I did like it for, what things happened, why they happened.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a really better, much better understanding of myself.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I work with players, I have a better understanding of them as players and as human beings.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's um it's been amazing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do like coming back and watching.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I come back low tier to see the boys, so it's it's great.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because you two I think are quite similar in the way that you look at life, and you're both very human-centric in terms of the the form of an opinion of a person is based on who they are off the pitch before they are on the pitch.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: From your point of view, Luke, why why is that?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Why why do you think you look at people as individuals and how they how they're made up, and how other managers perhaps look at them more as a as a product on a pitch?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure whether I think for a lot of people um in the game they've been in the game only and haven't seen life outside of football, and it's not a brilliant reflection of real life.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: It does it it it is a somewhat a blurry image of real life football.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: It does reflect society, but uh it's not quite the real thing.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And funnily enough, I don't know if you know, but I was under-21's manager when Craig signed for for Brighton, and I can tell you from reliving if I go back in time and relive that experience.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: We we all at the club we all recognised him as a per you know as a as a human as well as a great football player, but he was very, very popular.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are other players that signed, and and you're like, that's just a football player, and there isn't a huge amount you can't really work out too much about them as a person because it's it feels it appears with some people in the game their whole identity is the football club or the you know football industry.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: But Craig will was more of a rounded character, and that that came through.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did that kind of gravitate?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you gravitate towards people like that?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because as I say, you like to get to know people from their personality.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think with when you're a under-21 manager and and you you come across a first team player in the corridor, canteen or whatever, there's always, if you're doing it pro in my opinion, there's always a natural respect and and they have an aura about them, and and I think the healthy thing to do is to respect that and be more it's it's a it's an unwritten rule, you know, it's an unwritten rule, but you play second fiddle to a first team player and you enjoy that because you want to put them up on a pedestal.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I used to sit behind the dugout for every home game, and he'd be on the pitch, lighting the place up, and you know what he's like when he gets motor and he runs.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the he's one of he's one of those football players that when he runs, even if he doesn't touch the ball, you get excited because something's happening because so much energy.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was it's it's unusual because now we have a different dynamic, and because you know that stage of our life is has moved on.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that was I find that interesting when I see Macker because I was involved in a process when Gus Poert was looking at him and he turned the laptop round and he showed me.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember before he came to the club and he was here just ripping the place to pieces, and he was like, I need to get this guy and look at this from the weekend, and he's showing me stuff.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's incredible to see the whole thing unfold.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's basically saying you got your move to Brighton.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's essentially what he's saying.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: We spent a lot of time together because I got when I got injured, and then I came into spent time with you, trained with you at Lowe's, and you could really tell like how invested you were in the person.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I when I always when I trained with you, it was always enjoyable, it was always about the person that the football was great, and you could feel the energy that flowed.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: But and I think that's such an important thing to respect the the person behind the player.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I made them feel seen, and I think that's what you did, especially like for the young lads, and even say me, a first team player coming in, like finding my feet again, you made me seen, and I think that's an amazing, I think that's an amazing quality to have because I said I think everyone in this world wants to be seen for who they are, and I think, as I said, definitely for me that when I was with you, that's how I felt when I was like in your session.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice to hear, you know, Ryan Harley's quite similar.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan Ryan was out out of the squad and he came to train with a second team.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I always felt like it sound dramatic, but from my point of view, your under 21's manager, it's like you've got like a the wounded alpha, do you know what I mean?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like you you've you you've got the male lion coming to the training for the day, you're like he's he's wounded, do you know what I mean?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's like a way of trying to you can't patronise these guys, they're too too strong, and at the same time you can't treat them like the kids because the kids are on a different journey, they haven't earned that love.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that that dynamic has to be managed, and and I've formed formed a relationship with Macra in that way, and Ryan Harley.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then Ryan Harley probably in his worst moment of Brighton was when we forged our relationship.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good bedrock in a bad time, not always when everyone's jumping on your back because you're scoring all the goals, you know what I mean?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone's lovely.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know that person's there at your work.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: You with me, and then so you can you build from there.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's true.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did how how did you like forge these skills?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or how did you come about because obviously not everyone has that ability to do that?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I probably owe that to my parents.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I hope you he wouldn't mind.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'd mention a player, I don't know whether I should mention his name, but when I went to Bristol City, he was um he'd been told your surplus to requirements, go and find a club.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tell your agents, you're not gonna play.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he was an experienced player and he'd been at the club and he'd had a promotion at a club and he'd been player of a year.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he comes over, got terrible face, comes over to train with a second team, so I pulled him to one side and said, We're gonna we have to train and we have to train properly because the the the the young players are still at the end of their pre-season, they really need to hit it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you're gonna do everything with them, but nothing.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked at me like as if he's tricking me.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I said, but in return, I just need the some some positive energy as much as you can, because you're in a terrible situation, I get it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they're making training, but then there's explosive things that they have to go and do.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when preseason we disguise the running, we're we're horrible like that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: They do an action and then okay, no, you have to go there.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: But this one player, he just he has an area that he doesn't have to run around.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, and then when one team loses the ball, they have to chase and get it back.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's always in the team with possession, you know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: This type of session, and so at the end of uh the session, I said to him, Can I just say thank you?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's all I could I couldn't ask for any more from you.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well done.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And listen, I know you're in a really bad spot, and you might be with me again.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always gonna look after you.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: You deserve that.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, you know what football is like.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the last week before the first game of the season, player gets injured in his position.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, uh, we need you, but you don't get any ideas.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So they play the first game, scores a winner.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like I'm I'm putting legs on it, I promise you it's true.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: They played a second game, they're one-nil down.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: He scored the equalizer, they won, two, one.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: He played almost every minute of every single game.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for one whole season, and this guy is like nearly seven foot, for one whole season, he came in the canteen, he grabbed my bald head and kissed me on the top of my head every single day.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every single day.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I've seen him on the s around when he played as an opponent, the nicest, warmest embrace because the bad moment, someone seeing you.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you you you gave him that because again, he could have come in, you could have said nothing to him, he could have just kind of not done the sessions, not done it properly, and then the opportunity comes, and then he's not ready for it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you you gave him that ability to be ready to slip into it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say actually, before you you asked the question about where you get that skill set from, and I was gonna explore that, but just given what you've just said, one of the things that I found really interesting, whenever we've played games, whether it be last season or in pre-season this year, the amount of players, former players, former coaches, former managers come up to you, give you a hug.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: Is that something uh for you as a person that you gravitate so much towards?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because it shows you've made an impact on their life, however small, whether it be as small as just tailoring a session to suit their needs at that particular moment in time or to build a friendship like you obviously have with so many people.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you you've you've witnessed the training pitch, and I have to be tough on these guys, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You've seen it, and on face value, you can look at that and go, imagine he's tearing into the players and he's really getting after him, and it looks don't look comfortable.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: If that's just where it stops, I don't think you form a bond.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's then coupled with support, like real support, and when you identify traits in a person that are unique to them, and they're like, Oh, the boss actually saw that, he knows that about me, then you you have a chance to have a bond that when you're when you're in a bad moment or it's half time or whatever, hopefully you can inject that aggression and that being really assertive.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: But the player hopefully by that stage they go, okay, he's coming from somewhere that he wants us to do where he cares about us.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: One with that complete care and not pushing is okay because you really care about people.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not pushing them is you have to be lucky that the player is self-motivated, he's got a very high level of quality for that division, and then they can just oh the gaffer's fine with us, we just go out and play.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you're there and you need to compete and your team needs to be pushed and maybe out of their comfort zone, you have to couple the two together, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's incredible in juggling they're both.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned your parents in terms of the ground and they gave you, uh, when you reflect on on the childhood uh and in terms of growing up and and how you sort of took the the the real qualities that they had in their lives.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Just reflect on that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: How important was that for you to have that sort of setup?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I mean they're my heroes, you know, so I think they're both incredible.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And my my my mum is like 80% of the time very, very warm.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was a fantastic mother.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: She had the all mothering instincts that I the 20%, the most scary person ever.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my father was probably a more even, you know, maybe I was more scared of my dad in general, you know.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Not scared, you know, that's the wrong word.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like on a healthy level.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And he was very, very good father, very committed father that would play and whatever.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think they had a a good balance like that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is that something that you've tried to take on into parenting yourself?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um well that's a good one.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I I think probably I failed too many times to get the balance right, honestly.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the last maybe the last two years I I think I've been better.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mean yesterday, yesterday they spent£120 on the PlayStation store without telling me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I removed my cards from the fee, and then this morning there was a denied fit of£40.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So they touch you with what I'm saying.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: They touch you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's interesting because obviously you're a father, Craig, and obviously you when you're in when you're in the game, you make so many sacrifices that people don't really recognise.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, that in your case, you're miles away from home, so you're really making the ultimate sacrifice because you probably only see them well, uh at a really small period of time during throughout the season.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: That must be incredibly tough.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um I guess it goes hand in hand with football, right?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um on the both on the both front, you you are effectively doing it for them, but they probably don't see it right now.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're a huge driver, aren't they?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you spend you spend a lot a lot of time away from them.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you said I think like giving hoping being when you're around them, giving them the the the best of you and giving them the the the right kind of characteristics, you don't just go in there and berate them all the time.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: You see it's that it's that finding that balance because again, as with football, you said the sacrifices you are away for such a long period of time, so like the the kids don't get to see you and spend those time and and sometimes build those characteristics.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it is it is difficult.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um but as you said, it is it's what you do it for, you do it for then.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever find that if you're having a a bad spell, either you've been injured or you just don't feel like you plan well or for strikers if you're not up your tally, you know, where you expect to be.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever find it you struggle to snap out of that at home?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I used to, yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I used to like uh because I was so single-minded, it was just like I'd focus on that and I'd lose the outside, I'd lose everything else, and I'd just in my zip my bubble.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it's taken me like to the last few years to really start to pull myself out of that and really actually like because when when you're in it, like it's the it's the sacrifice, you have to do everything you possibly can.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of overwent that with I was just literally tunnel vision, even with the family.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was tunnel vision, and then say the last few years now I've stepped back because it's not as as much of a driver, and I want to spend more time with them and see them grow.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's turning to it's turned into a beautiful relationship now.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: So it's amazing, it's amazing the sacrifices that people don't necessarily um recognise when you're in football.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk some more after uh these messages and get to know Luca a little bit better as we go.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: A big thank you to Global, Larrington Co.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: and Hudson Holmes for allowing us to use our hospitality box to film Posh Unfiltered.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Also, don't forget to drop off 26, 27, Breath of the Home and Awake It in store and online via the Posh Online store today.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, welcome back to part two of Posh Unfiltered, joined by my guest host, Craig McAlSmith, and our guest today is manager Luke Williams.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we've been speaking about um sort of growing up and how how life has sort of evolved into where it is now.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: In terms of yourself, Luke, obviously um you had a quite big moment in your life aged 16, that perhaps not many people know about.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes in life there are instants that can shape how you mould the rest of your life in your own words, so you're able to sort of share what we're alluding to.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's true.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I think I'd left school probably two weeks prior.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was uh I was 16 years old.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd just signed my scholarship forms at Bristol Rovers, so I think there was like a probably three-week period of crossover.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in that three weeks I'd I'd gone out with some some friends, and uh life's changed a lot, right?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it might seem a bit sh odd now, but I was I was very young and we'd we'd gone out, it was the early hours of the morning.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh um a guy in the he was in I was in North London, and a guy there that was not a very good character, let's say, and uh he had a dubious line of business and he'd probably work out what he used to do.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he took a he took a disliking to me, he felt that I was uh in the wrong he didn't like where I was and who I was and um he attacked me.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh it there was no there was no warning, it was just a very, very vicious, violent attack.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I didn't even see it come in, I was attacked from from behind and um yeah, and so that was like uh um attempted murder um or GBH with intent like went to went to court um to Tottenham Crown Court and and uh I think ultimately I think he was he he was acquitted.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um from my knowledge he he he actually was successful in killing somebody uh probably a week or two after after that attack.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was off the rouse and uh he killed a young guy in uh in in um in north London as well with a different venue, and uh as as I believe he he um he served a long sentence for that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: How how do you obviously the physical element of it is is obviously difficult to go over in a sense, but more from a mental point of view, how how did you allow that incident to to shape you and how do you because obviously some people will go under at that point.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know if I was the victim of something like that, it would take me a hell of a long time to get over that.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: What was your mindset?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was um it was strange.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think probably the the the the cut the time was it was a different time to now, and so it was like just just get on with it, really.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean I I went um I went to I went to Whip's Cross and where I was born in East London and they they put up they packed the wound, there was a significant wound.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had a few, but that I had a significant wound in my throat where a piece of glass had broken off on my jawbone on the inside and got lodged in there.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there was a the wound was open, and so they they packed it really tight and they like I looked like a mummy.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I sat there for a couple of hours waiting.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can imagine whipped cross Friday night or Saturday night, whatever it was, and he's done just complete carnage.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in the end, I just walked home and I got in bed, and uh it wasn't until the following morning that my father walked, he must have walked past my bedroom.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was 16, so I was still a kid.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: He walked past the bedroom and he saw the bed sheets were red, and he came in and he was like furious, like what I said, oh I've had a scrap with someone.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: He said that you said you haven't had a scrap, you look like you've had bite along, you haven't had a scrap, you know, scrap.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then um, you know, I didn't really want to get into it, and that um and a friend of mine lived down the road and his mum was a nurse and she stitched the wound up in in the in the kitchen.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think she was like, look, this is like I work in a hospital, that's you've been stabbed.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not beat around the bush and that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I still I didn't really want last different, so you know, it's just a different time, and you felt like you know, you you had to take what you know you were out and it was your fault and whatever.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I went, I moved to Bristol like a week later um to play for Bristol, you know, to do my apprenticeship at Bristol Rovers.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had to go back to London for the for the trial, and I asked the the guy who was of like, you know, Dan Robinson's like the literally the best guy you could.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he he wrote a book on doing that job, right?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: The way he looks after people, he's unbelievable.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: The guy that was doing his job, I came back from London after four days of the trial.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I walked into training and he went, Oh, here he is, killed anyone recently.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, it weren't me, someone tried to kill me.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you know what I mean?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, ah, you you fly boys.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, yeah, no, weren't really, that's not really a thing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, you know what I mean?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you just butted your lip and got on with it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the effect, I don't know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get what I mean?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I I all I do know is that there has been one and it did change the rest of my life and my personality.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: That obviously you're being 16, like and obviously now you've kind of grown up further down the line.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: That the life and death situation, did it did you understand it at that point?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And has it kind of um have you used that in your own life now moving forward?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like how close it could have been to and does that push you in moving forward?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously in in a split second, it could have been a different story.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very different.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I had I had like a so that I was 16, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then at 19 I had a huge injury, and and they so I had five surgeries on my knee because the first two they didn't realise how bad the damage was.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to have another.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to a very good hospital and I saw a top surgeon, but he missed that I had no lateral collaterals, no lateral.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I had five surgeries and it took three years.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: That in itself is quite traumatic.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then after my fifth surgery, so I'm I'm now in my mid twenties, I've barely driven, even though I got my license when I was 17, and I drove and I misjudged her.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: A turning and I came off the road and I went, I hit the curb and I took off.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing about 40 miles an hour and I hit the curb and I took off and went through a lamppost.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I sheared the lamppost about four feet from the ground and I fractured my skull and broke my remus.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in hospital for a fortnight with that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was like five surgeries and then a near fatal car crash in the space of four years.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a lot going on.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And even even I remember being, I remember being moving to Bristol and I'd had the thing, I'd been I'd been attacked and it weren't a good time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Bristol and then when I turned 17 and three months to the day, I took my driving test and I passed.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad helped me get, I got like a Vauxhall Nova.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was Frara, you know what I mean?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I get the train back from Bristol Temple Meads to London after we play, I played for the youth team in the morning, got the train home.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I go back to my mum's and then I'm there, and my dad shows me, oh, is your car?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: He took me around the block in it, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I've had a bit of something to eat, and then I remember my dad going, You better get on the road.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a long journey.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never driven a car on my own.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've genuinely I'd never been in a vehicle on my own in my whole life.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You better get moving.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I went, Oh yeah, yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, all right.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember sitting in the car, and as I shut the door, I was like, it's really quiet.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting there, and then my parents were at the door, they're like, ring us when you get there, because there's no mobile.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I started driving.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I went up the M11.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you that know, I went up the M11 and I went the wrong way.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: I went clockwise, so I went round the whole of London to get back to the M4.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking to myself, people are so friendly because I've just been flashed non-stop.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I got to like probably, I don't know, I must have got to like I was in Kent somewhere, like Seven Oaks Junction, and then I realised I didn't have my lights on.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, anyway, it took me hours and hours.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I got back to Bristol, and I phoned, where have you been?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I went the wrong way around the M25.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, yeah, but no sat nerves, nobody was my first drive because you have to get out of the credit word you reflect on that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because I always remember when I passed my driving test, obviously, again, before before you had social media, before you had maps, whatever, I had a massive fear that driving on the motorway, I'd miss the turn and end up in Scotland.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I refuse, I didn't want to drive on it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I refuse to drive.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And we've all got low stuff.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, remember passing my driving test, and I had an old Ford Fiesta, and I'm talking that Nova is a Ferrari compared to the one I had.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: It was horrendous.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I passed my driving test, and then I'd never I'd never driven in the dark.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, you do what you do, you go and see your mates, don't you?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Drove to our mates, and they only had four gears, so you couldn't tell whether it was going fast or small, uh fast or slow.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and yeah, and I drove in the dark, and like there was just looking in in the mirror, and there's just lights at me, and I'm like, I can't do that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just literally pulled over and let the guy through.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Absolute panic stations.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: But you but there are things in life, and and and you talk about the the big moments in your life that there's no rule book for it, is there?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's no there's no one that teaches you how to to do certain things.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: I always say that you know, when I was at school, I'd love to have learned about tax, for instance.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no idea what what you go into you go into the wide world and it's like they're taking half your money.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why did we not learn this?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you think now that there's more things available for people to help them learn about what's happened to them and how they're experiencing the world?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think now like more is happening, more people are becoming aware of themselves, yeah, are becoming aware of like what they've been through, and there's people around that helping them understand that.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think as men, we we've always been very closed off.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we just deal with what we've deal with and don't try and get anyone involved.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think now more people are starting to stand up, we've seen more sports stars, more elite performers now coming out and saying they've struggled and this is what they've done and this is how they helped.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's that that's only going to be made for a better society and for for better people if we all kind of actually own our own stuff and start to look to get help for it.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because Greg, you've obviously um had a podcast, got a podcast, and you talk to people about those kind of things, don't you?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think one thing that's probably missing um is that ability for people to be able to talk openly.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you would have seen it in dressing rooms about the unseen problems, perhaps the people that come with a smile on their face in the morning, but then you're sitting to them in the canteen and you're like, oh, you're having a great time at the moment, and then they're like, oh yeah, my family situation is horrendous, or I'm struggling with the missus, or struggling with the kids and what have you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes, and it's interesting, podcasts like this is a great way of doing it because you end up just having a conversation you probably wouldn't have had.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: You would probably wouldn't have had those conversations in the canteen.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Is that something that both of you try and seek out?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: You try and get to know people.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: We spoke for Harrison Jones recently, didn't we?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: He's someone who's come in in the summer and he's speaking to different people in the canteen, trying to get to know different people.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: And Warren Edwards, who we signed in the summer, it's the first time in 25 years a player's actually asked what my surname was.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought he asked because he knew me and was just double checking to see if it was.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Why are you asking that?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'll just like to know who people are and all that kind of stuff, and that's great.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I I guess from your point of view, and both of you, that's the way to learn about people, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we we we done I don't know if um you'd spoken to any of the players or or but but but we obviously we were away in Spain, and um one of the one of the things that I asked the group to do before we left was to do a presentation on them on themselves and and the staff as well.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, it's something right.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're smiling because you're straight away, you're you're putting yourself in a footballer's own proper uncomfortable thing.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, brilliant.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Straight away, I know the whole room of players are all looking at me going, but you know, within every group, there's always somebody that is much more comfortable with that, they're more extrovert, right?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're more extrovert by their nature.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we were there and I said to the to the staff, first of all, we have one new member of staff who's very extrovert.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you'd have asked me to make a wager, I would have bet I would have backed it with.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he went, I'll go, I'll go first.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said to the players, we've got one presentation tonight from one of the members of staff.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can you let me know if any of you?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of the guys did.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like the most silent room you've ever been in.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the guys went up and done their presentations, and the best thing about it was that the first one was a member of staff, and he was nervous, you could hear it in his voice, and could see it in his body language, and he went bang, and he'd done it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the whole room, yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: See, he he smiled the whole room again.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whoa.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like it's it's judgment of yourself, of like of you're judging others, judging you, and then you're judging yourself at the same time.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're scared to put yourself.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is I've learned so much of this since I've retired, it's like you're scared to put your authentic true self out because if people reject it and laugh at you, that then that hurts because that's right who you truly are.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's it's an amazing thing to do to get people to be in love with themselves.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're there's only one of us, the only person we're ever with every day is us, and we're always good at putting love out to the world and out to other people, but not do it to ourselves.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's an amazing thing to get people to be proud of who they are, what they've achieved, like fall in love with themselves, even if someone else doesn't see that in you, be happy in yourself.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's that's a great thing.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And as a an ex, like for me, it was always like yes, go up and sing.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that was always the hardest thing to go to.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I try to replace that because you know the singing thing, I I get it, you know, I do get it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it it it's a moment, yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when when people go and share some stuff that's really about them and how they think this this actually forms me as a guy, these are the important things in my life, I think that lasts longer.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to replace the singing, and I think when the when the first group went up, I think a couple of things happened.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: One, those individuals went, I'm going first, I might get it all wrong, and don't know what's going to happen here.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: After they'd done their presentations, everyone, just without being asked to do it, no one was asked to do a single thing.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: People just felt compelled to go and give someone a hug or you know, like a proper high, you know, like a handshake.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could see those people filling up, like, whoa, okay, I'm I'm getting some really positive feedback, and I think that meant other people then thought, I would actually like to do that now.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was good affection, isn't it?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: And also, if we're being brutally honest, having been here 25 years, the singing's cringe, isn't it?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's not just cringe for the person singing it, it's also for the people watching it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because unless they're unbelievably good, where do you look?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: What do you do?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: You you end up just trying to get them to the chorus and then just joining in and clapping and letting them get off.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so uh, and then and I can't remember what did you say?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: What did you say, Craig?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't actually think I sung here.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, well that's an absolute disgraceful.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: My novel thing was uh uh what was it, Bon Jovi Living on the Prayer and that sort of sang at the other clubs.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it was when you score that many goals, no one motioned.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: It started when we when we all kind of kicked all the old lot out of it.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't that it was kind of started again, so you know we didn't do it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, to be fair, there's loads of stories about my share in part three.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: So stay with us and uh we'll uh wrap up the Posh Unfiltered episode one of the new series very shortly.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can now purchase your match tickets for our first league home game of the 26-27 campaign against Mansfield Town on Saturday, the 22nd of August, via the Posh Ticket Office.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to part three of Posh Unfiltered, myself, Phil Adlam, Craig McHale Smith, and our gaffer Luke Williams.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we've chatted throughout this episode about a variety of things in Luke's life, and we've spoken a little bit about what Craig's done after.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: We've just been having a conversation actually off camera about various different things.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I I was interested from Craig's point of view, because we've had this conversation many times as a striker, um, in terms of what goes through your mind when you're out there on the pitch.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm intrigued to know um from your point of view, when you're going clean to one goal, how your mentality changed in terms of finishing, and from your point of view, Lou, once Craig spoken about that, how you um treat and match that in terms of um the preparation for it, or is it do you write a lot of stuff down, or is it in the moment that you like to do?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, Craig, obviously, when you're a player, you you you adapted your style.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, obviously, you know, I was I got lots of abuse.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: From me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, more from you about the amount of times I'd go through one-on-one and miss.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I used to switch off when you used to go for a goal.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: I used to think, well, you're obviously gonna miss.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll just see what the time is, have a little check.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he scored.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the amount of goals I probably could have scored in that first probably couple of years from one-on-ones was ridiculous.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, I went away and really, really focused and honed that that ability to score.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the problem I had to start with is I'd allow my brain to overrun.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'd get through, and then it there'd be too many options to keep us coming.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to try and I've got and go around him, and then eventually the chance was gone.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then the more I practiced, the more I kind of got out of my head and allowed like the practice just to take over.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd spend obviously hours with like Mark Robson doing loads of different finishes, and I'd just allow my body to go and allow it just to kind of execute.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the best kind of season I had was when I literally just allowed my body to take over and try and stay as much out of my head as possible.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's kind of what I train players now, is to the sense, the feeling that you actually feel in your body because the brain's slow, the brain, and then when the brain hijacks the body, then that's when everything starts to go break down.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can stay within the body and allow the body to take over, that's when I had my great success.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I train players now.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I also remember you saying as well that when you used to go through on goal, some people and some players can get really caught up in what the people are doing behind the goal, the fans, the faces, um, the pressure that that then puts on you.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: How did you manage to sort of block them out?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just going through the sensation of the body, allowing the body to take over, the almost kind of feeling the finish, feeling the ball into the back of the net, almost like knowing what I was gonna where I was gonna go, allowing this to kind of be there, but not dominating.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like there was a sense of people around and it kind of it's almost like a blur, so you're not you're not quite paying attention, but you know and sensing, and then it was just literally execute.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think more what helped as well is kind of taking the pressure for myself.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think I was so pressured where it's like, I've got to score, I've got to score, I've got to keep as a striker gotta make sure you score goals.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And as soon as I kind of stood back and went, you're not gonna score every time, just execute if you saved it, move on.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Next, take take whatever the positive the thing you need into that shot, what I did wrong, take it into the next one.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose that's the thing, isn't it?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Luke, in terms of if you make a mistake, sometimes the the best thing to do is own up to the mistake and to then obviously learn from the mistake and then take it forward.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and obviously from a player perspective, and I'm sure you were the same as well, that when things go wrong, the longer you dwell on it, the worse it gets in there.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and if you look at like the current um group, um one of one of the key messages when I first arrived is that um you can't be you can't be scared to miss.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know it sound it sounds like a very faraway comment, but I've witnessed trends in players throughout my coaching career.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: If they miss a chance that is the perception is that it's a very, very easy opportunity to convert to a goal, they then don't want their next chance to be the same.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: They would like to score a much more difficult one that if it doesn't go in, well, it was a you know, you had a shot from four yards.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: If it does go in, you're a hero.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the the real like guys that are like strikers, poachers, they have to go and miss the tapping sometime, but they have to go again.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what was great with like, for example, Harry, Jimmy, Claryl, they were they were going into the the hot zone very close to the goalkeeper in the six-yard box where you run the risk of missing.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you miss that one, it's like that that noise, that that groan, you know what I mean, and people talking about, and it's everywhere.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you want to score a lot of goals, the majority of goals in world football are scored around the six-yard box.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: We don't remember them as much as we remember the ones that are you know unbelievable because they're they're they're they're they're many and they're not glamorous, but that's that's for me is one of the big things about scoring a lot of goals.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking about scoring the odd goal, a lot of goals in the way that Macker would have scored a lot of goals, was about finishing the actions that you're expected to finish that expectation is it's a huge burden.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been lucky to work with some strikers that scored a lot of goals.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've been so impressed with that.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: And in terms of your role on a matchday, obviously, when you get to the ground on a matchday, how how do you try and stay relaxed to the point whereby the players see that nature and they're able to sort of take that on?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because some players will look forward to match days, some players will be slightly worried about match days depending on their run of games, where they're playing in the game, who they were coming up against.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: What do you try and do on a match day?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do is every match day the same for you in terms of your routine?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it depends on the group.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if the if the group uh needs more energy and more you need to inject them with a little bit of fear because maybe they're feeling over overly confident, you know, if the if the group appear to be more fragile, it's like reassurance, you know.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I saw the group change last season from when I arrived, they were very low and they needed a lot of reassurance, I think.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they started to go well, and then that swung and they started to become more there was a bit more complacency, and then I think a lot of players started looking at what can I get out of this because the team the team has now got into a pretty good position, but what can I get out of it?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then we started to be quite fractious, and uh already I see a more harmonious group, there's no doubt, and I think at the moment the stage they're at, they need a lot of pushing, they need a lot, they need a lot of energy and a lot of pushing, and there'll be times in the season where I feel like they just need me to be calm with them, you know, and I have to try and feel the difference between the two, and that's hard.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting as well, because it craig, you as a as a former player, and you were in the dressing room with a whole different group of players.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: When you first hear, obviously, we had lots of success, then that group changed and you found yourself on the sort of the outside of the dressing room would change quite a bit.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always intrigued to know those those stories that perhaps we don't get to know of what goes on behind closed doors and dressing rooms.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's a good sort of not a scrap, but there's a good verbal confrontation and addressing real.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Is it needed sometimes?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: Do you do you feel sometimes that a builder pressure can be relieved by maybe someone having a go at someone else?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: And we've obviously seen examples when Barry Fry was manager uh quite regularly, and obviously the big Ron Manager documentary showcased that for the world to see when Steve Bleesdale was here as well.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: But can it can it be beneficial?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: What was your view as a former player?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's obviously standards can be set by the dressing room, and I think sometimes if people are falling under those standards, I think sometimes you you do have to kind of not not get physical, but uh have a good disagreement about it.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: People have different opinions about what's going right and what's going wrong.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I think as long as you've got an honest group and you've got people that who are willing to look at themselves and and hold their hands up and say, Yeah, maybe you're right, then I think that's that's what makes a really good dress room.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you've got people who are not going to take responsibility for decisions they're making, then it becomes very, very difficult.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And as you said, I think the successful times we had here, we had players that would hold their hands up and say, Yeah, that's not good enough.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: My standards need to be higher.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then you see that you see the team kick on, and then I think we've had uh times here where the team hasn't performed, and that's because there's there's people in the dressing rooms who are not kind of doing what they should be doing, and they've just kind of they're not, they're not, they don't have those standards, and but I think it you live and die by how your the your team standards, the especially the dressing room standards.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: How do you drive that then in terms of standards?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it it's tough because uh it depends on it depends on many, many factors.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's so difficult because sometimes players are just demotivated for reasons that you can't control yourself.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: So then the obvious thing is remove that player from the team.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you don't have a player that's in a great place to come in and replace that one.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: So then their management becomes very tricky, and you you know, we you've seen like how many Manchester United managers have failed, you know, and you think, well, if you can fail at Manchester United when they've got this sort of abundance, like you can fail anywhere, right?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we've seen it all all clubs, you know, the vast majority anyway, we've seen that they have they have periods where they really struggle, and even great managers um have struggled and have lost their job because their performances have been really poor.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So getting that balance is you know, it's is tough, and that's what makes it a challenge, and that's what makes it interesting.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I I don't think there is a I don't think I could give you a definitive like this is what you have to do, do that and it'll work.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting because obviously uh the modern day player uh switches off and relaxes in so many different ways now.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we've spoken at length about Harry Leonard goes fishing, for instance, and that is his way of detracting football from reality.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um how as a football manager can you switch off?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because it I I I I think it's one of those professions whereby you're always thinking, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I sometimes I get into bed and I'm thinking about the day and I can't sleep.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: You're probably thinking about players, performations, training schedules, a lot.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Can you switch off?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is it is it the hardest thing to switch off from?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or do you want to switch off from it?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Is that I mean I I don't I don't think so.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think that really, I don't think any of us that are in this position want to switch off.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think we just accept that you're not going to fully switch off from from your job and you're you know, I I learned something interesting that over the summer actually of talking to a a former soldier who like got to a very high rank, you know, in the military, and he was talking about exercises that that he'd been on, you know, um when they're training.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I had like he was we had like we we were doing a field experiment, we were camping outside and this, that, and the other.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: We had the ration bags, you know, and I have to heat the bags up in the in the little water in a little gas canister and that, and then fiddling around with it.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I remember I lived on these for six months during one one one uh campaign he was on.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, hey, done that for six months.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We had this great big store and went in there.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I he said I had three of them a day.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, What what was your life like?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Go out and do this, go out and do the other, and it was just like relentless, non-stop.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very much something like there's no way he could have he wouldn't have got back to camp and just switch off.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's in a war zone, but you know what I mean, he's in a hostile territory, there's no switching off.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so I said to him, when he was telling me, he wasn't telling me like his body language didn't resemble someone that was like it was a really tough time.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was he was quite happy about it.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I said to him, Did you actually enjoy it?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he said something to me that stuck with me.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: He said, It's type 2 fun.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, see how you're like, I knew what he meant, but I'd never heard the expression in my life, but I knew instantly what he meant.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, it's type 2 fun, and I was almost like, say no more, do you know what I mean?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because but he did, he he was like, it's like a weird thing in your head, but you're like, this is tough, and a lot of it's pretty green, it's quite dangerous.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it that I'm quite enjoying it?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose it's not like traditional enjoyment, do you know what I mean?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you know, sitting sitting at a you know, you're at a concert in your favourite band, you know you're having a good time, you're with you with your friends or your family, and you're having a drink and there's no work to do, you're having it, but it's like type two fun.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for us in this position, well, is there 72 of us or whatever, and then God knows what it's like for the guys that are in the real league.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like type two fun.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: We we love it, we're motivated to do it, we we understand the privilege that we that we that we have to be able to do what we do, but at the same time, there's a bombardment of pressure.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting as well because I I would view all of that pressure and think, how the hell am I gonna relieve that pressure?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, the the word cancelling, I think, is something that obviously nowadays is so much more open to people, and people actually just use it sometimes as a way of talking to someone that they don't know, that they're not gonna judge them for whatever they want to talk about.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose as a football manager, um the team around you become those counsellors, right?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because without them you probably would go insane because effectively all that pressure is on your shoulders.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is that is that something that uh is really important to you when you're selecting people around you that they have to kind of understand how you work, of course, but also understand when they're expected to take some of the burden off you?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean unfortunate because I have Ryan Harley, um, and it he's under pressure, you know, but he he's always there with me, and we help each other in that way.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Connor Rawdinson's recently joined the club now.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll I work with Connell as a player.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when things got tough and there was bad moments, and there's that guy in the dressing room, you look at him, you go, he's 100%.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll share, I'll share a short story if it's alright.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we we played we played a game, we played the oval away, right?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, after the game, the BBC interviewed me and they said, Oh, you're playing South End next.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a player at South End that you've been linked with.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: What can you tell us?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Can't tell you anything.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's a South End player.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have to play them.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really want to discuss that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: I said, we know Jack, but we're not, I'm not gonna.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, South End went crazy.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, You name check the player, how dare you, da da da, this that and the other.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna come to Meadow Lane, we wanna, we wanna, we'll be having words.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they done an interview and said, like, we'd be having words with him, we're not happy because Dan Collinore was there.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, then on the Tuesday night went into change rooms.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I said, guys, listen, let's not make this game about me and what I said, or this, that, and the other.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're trying to whip something up here, this, that, and the other.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we won like 4-0.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as the players were coming off the pitch and going down the tunnel, Connor Rawlinson walked past their staff and went, Don't ever poke the bear.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, you know, when you've got a guy, yeah, and he's like, nah, I'm not having that.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in all the bad situations, he was always there, and that's why I think he's a brilliant character to be able to withstand the pressures of this job.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what you need, good people around good people.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously, we've gone to the end of uh our first episode of the new series of Posh and Filtered to sing us out.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: Would you please welcome Kevin?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm joking.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um right there and he just pitch perfect some little on a thread.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you never know.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one thing to finish as well, as you can see behind Luke, we have a uh a shirt that's got Gather number one on.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um he's gonna sign that.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna be available.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna uh put that on our social media for you the opportunity to win that particular shirt as well.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, thank you very much for tuning in to the show.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Craig, for being uh the co-host for the day.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we look forward to episode two of Potion Filtered.