Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 181: Bibles and Bulls

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Ep. 181: Bibles and Bulls · The MeatEater Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: If you listen to the Meat Eater podcast, and obviously
0:04
Speaker 1: you do because here you are listening to it, or
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Speaker 1: watch the show Meat Eater on Netflix, you have seen
0:10
Speaker 1: and kind of met our buddy, Remy Warren, who is
0:14
Speaker 1: I'll say, I've said it before and I'll say it again,
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Speaker 1: one of the most just skilled, accomplished hunters I've ever
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Speaker 1: had the pleasure of spending time out in the woods with.
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Speaker 1: We are launching a new podcast with Remy called Cutting
0:28
Speaker 1: the Distance and then Cutting the Distance is not like
0:30
Speaker 1: a conversational show. Cutting the Distance is an educational show
0:35
Speaker 1: where Remy walks you through situations and scenarios from his
0:39
Speaker 1: life and gives you like actionable, usable information, instruction, intelligence,
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Speaker 1: inspiration about how to become a better hunter. And there's
0:52
Speaker 1: no one more suited to give you this information than
0:56
Speaker 1: Remy Warren. So go find it. Cutting the Sin's the
1:00
Speaker 1: same places you can find the Meat Eater podcast. Give
1:03
Speaker 1: it a listen, give it a review. Caughting the Distance
1:06
Speaker 1: with Remy Warren. This is the me Eater podcast coming
1:16
Speaker 1: at you, shirtless, severely, voge bitten in my case, underwear
1:20
Speaker 1: listening un podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on
1:26
Speaker 1: x Hunt Creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system
1:29
Speaker 1: for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or
1:32
Speaker 1: Google play store. Nor where you stand with on x
1:40
Speaker 1: Okay you on Phil Wild Phil? Why the wild Phil?
1:46
Speaker 1: I don't know because I'm used to calling people named
1:48
Speaker 1: Bill wild Bill, and then I thought I'd call him
1:50
Speaker 1: wild Phil. But wild Phil doesn't sound good. I like it. Yeah,
1:54
Speaker 1: I think you just try it out for four or
1:56
Speaker 1: five months, see what happens. I was telling them, if
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Speaker 1: your name's Film, probably not with too wild. But if
2:04
Speaker 1: your name's Bill, that can go any direction. Man, there's
2:07
Speaker 1: some wild Phils out there, Wild Phil, Wild Phil, Hiccock,
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Speaker 1: Wild Phil Cody, Big Phil Cody. Anyway, Wild Phil. Thank
2:17
Speaker 1: you Phil. Uh, Jason Commut, introduce yourself real quick, and
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Speaker 1: then I got a quick question for you, Jason Phelps
2:23
Speaker 1: the Pholps game Calls, and I have your partner, Uh,
2:26
Speaker 1: Dirk Durham with Phelps Game Calls. Good job, guys. If
2:29
Speaker 1: you had to rate your patients on a like a
2:30
Speaker 1: sliding scale of one to ten, what would it? Because
2:32
Speaker 1: it's gonna We've got a couple of things we've gotta
2:34
Speaker 1: do here to really so you're just gonna be antis
2:37
Speaker 1: all get out. Yeah, like it's not good. You're an
2:43
Speaker 1: impatient person. Yeah, your whole life. You've known this well.
2:47
Speaker 1: The reason I asked, um, you got a couple of
2:50
Speaker 1: things to top about. We got like, like we had
2:54
Speaker 1: a handful of nipple like nipple ripping nipple stories coming
2:58
Speaker 1: in lately. Yeah, a new one came in. You can't
3:01
Speaker 1: pass them by. No, a new one came in, Um,
3:05
Speaker 1: s guy says, I thought you'd be interested in this.
3:08
Speaker 1: He says that they were out. They were in Ontario, Canada,
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Speaker 1: a bunch of people swimming in the water, A bunch
3:15
Speaker 1: of guys, a bunch of girls, and they're out swimming
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Speaker 1: twenty ft of water, and all of a sudden, one
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Speaker 1: of this guy's buddies accuses him of giving him a
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Speaker 1: purple nipple, which is when you pinch someone's nipple apparently
3:28
Speaker 1: and twisted real hard, which we call a titty twister.
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Speaker 1: Purple nerple. That's what I've been told, purple nerple, purple
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Speaker 1: nerpal Really you too, yes, he say it is again,
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Speaker 1: Let me double check. I mean the titty twister is
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Speaker 1: I would say more common, but purple nerples, right, nerple,
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Speaker 1: purple nerple, He says, his body started, Oh, I'm sorry
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Speaker 1: he does call it the purple nerple? Hell? Is that
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Speaker 1: a t twister? Basically? Yeah, So he has a buddy said, hey,
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Speaker 1: stop giving me a titty twister. He's like, I didn't
4:01
Speaker 1: give you titty twister. And they inspect the nipple and
4:05
Speaker 1: it's been bit by a northern pike. What yeah, I
4:09
Speaker 1: had little teeny pin prick holes. Then later they're sitting
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Speaker 1: around recounting this story and there was an aunt that um,
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Speaker 1: he describes her as a fairly attractive aunt. Um. I
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Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that he added that, because I
4:29
Speaker 1: feel like if you he wanted to set the scene,
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Speaker 1: I feel like it's okay to be like I thought
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Speaker 1: about this this morning. Um, I feel that it's okay
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Speaker 1: to be attracted to an aunt or uncle, but you
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Speaker 1: do not act on it or tell the aunt and
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Speaker 1: uncle agreed, Sure, go for it. Do you know what
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Speaker 1: I mean? Like, it seems like it's it's inexcusable. Would
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Speaker 1: you agree with that? Phelps? No, you think it's inexcusable
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Speaker 1: for a young lad to find his aunt. So it's
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Speaker 1: got to be the family removed, so it can't be
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Speaker 1: like I said, no, I didn't say act on it.
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Speaker 1: I said, you cannot act on it. I don't even
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Speaker 1: know that you would tell anyone about it in your family.
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Speaker 1: I think it'd be okay to tell friends. Okay, yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's acceptable. Okay, So today I have a good looking
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Speaker 1: aunt to be attracted to ones aunt or uncle, blood aunt.
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Speaker 1: That's what I was saying. It's like the married end
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Speaker 1: of the family and not okay, but your mom's sister,
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Speaker 1: you're you're I'm talking. I'm talking about like, I'm not
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Speaker 1: talking about telling them or acting on it or marrying them.
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Speaker 1: It's it's okay to say that they're good looking. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: if someone well, I don't want to explore all the options,
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Speaker 1: but there are some familial connections that if someone has
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Speaker 1: just said that they had a fairly attractive X, like
5:53
Speaker 1: I had a you know, fairly attractive father, I would
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Speaker 1: be like, that's you know, not I'd keep that yourself.
6:01
Speaker 1: But to say you have a fairly attractive aunt, I
6:04
Speaker 1: know what you noticed it. I noticed it. That was
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Speaker 1: interesting thing to bring up, and I didn't want to
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Speaker 1: pass judgment, and I'm like, that's fine in this context.
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Speaker 1: The aunt go ahead. In this context. I think he's
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Speaker 1: letting the reader feel better about envisioning this scene that
6:23
Speaker 1: you're going to talk about. Now. He's coloring the scene
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Speaker 1: because of what he says happened. That the aunt divulges
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Speaker 1: to the boys that that has happened to her too,
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Speaker 1: out swimming in the lake, which then revealed to them
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Speaker 1: that this aunt that they find attractive slims nude in
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Speaker 1: the lake. And he just wanted to throw it into
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Speaker 1: the repertoire of it's okay to be thinking about I
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Speaker 1: encourage you to think about my aunt swimming nude in
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Speaker 1: the lake because she's an attractive gal. I think he's like,
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Speaker 1: let me paint the picture for you. Right. Uh, there's
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Speaker 1: my aunt, just smoke and hot right in you. That's now,
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Speaker 1: he said, he said, fairly attractive. So you know, in
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Speaker 1: montainio's supposed to paint posts like defense poles, trees, whatever.
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Speaker 1: Orange means that don't come in here in Texas. This
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Speaker 1: this is very un Texas. I feel in Texas you
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Speaker 1: use purple. Purple paint means don't come in my land.
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Speaker 1: And he said that there's he was in a hardware store.
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Speaker 1: A listener rolled in. He's in a hardware store, and
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Speaker 1: they have cans of paint labeled no hunting purple, which
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Speaker 1: he found offensive. He said, why not just call it
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Speaker 1: no trespassing purple? Yeah? Very Have they done some sort
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Speaker 1: of study that says, like purple paint lasts longer in
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Speaker 1: the hot Texas sun, or something doesn't fade as fast
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Speaker 1: no hunting purple like a new shade he describes as
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Speaker 1: a new shade of purple. Did he feel like it
7:57
Speaker 1: was like an anti hunting He thought they'd sell a
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Speaker 1: hell of a lot more in Texas. They called it
8:01
Speaker 1: no trespassing purple. Right, I don't know why I thought
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Speaker 1: that was interesting. Now that's it. Now that I'm talking
8:07
Speaker 1: about it doesn't seem as interesting as I thought it was.
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Speaker 1: Do you find that interesting? Jason? Yeah, I don't get
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Speaker 1: offended that easy though. It just is what it is.
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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you can trespass, you just don't want
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Speaker 1: you to hunt. There is there is there a places
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Speaker 1: you can get on and not hunt, but you can
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Speaker 1: be on their property. Or is it truly no trespassing purple?
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Speaker 1: I don't know he took offense to it. I think
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Speaker 1: it's no trespassing purple. Uh? Do I talk about this
8:29
Speaker 1: that this guy uh that the guy in Kentucky was
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Speaker 1: saying that, um, they were doing some kind of study
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Speaker 1: where they had collar deer and people were supposed to
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Speaker 1: feel free to shoot, like because they're doing mortality, so
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Speaker 1: like a hunter would be like if you see a
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Speaker 1: collar they're saying to hunters, if you see a collar
8:53
Speaker 1: deer and you would normally shoot it, go ahead and
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Speaker 1: shoot it. Um, And they were He found that there's
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Speaker 1: some guys that had some resistance to do I talk
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Speaker 1: about this shooting the collar dear because of I don't know.
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Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about shooting collar dear, but I
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Speaker 1: don't know if we've covered this specific. He multiple individuals
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Speaker 1: that you definitely, if you shoot a collar deer, you
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Speaker 1: need to grind all of the meat because they also
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Speaker 1: plant micro chips in the deer and if you don't
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Speaker 1: grind all the meat and destroy the micro trips, they
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Speaker 1: will then track you for a while because you will
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Speaker 1: in take the meat and the microchip will then live
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Speaker 1: inside of you. This is the wildlife biologist wrote us
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Speaker 1: in about this. But you guys, take nice bowl comes
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Speaker 1: strolling through, you got a collar on his neck. You
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Speaker 1: think twice about it or just normal normal as can be. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'm shooting it. I wouldn't be able to do it.
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Speaker 1: It just who would seem we talked about this, it
9:54
Speaker 1: would seem it would seem corrupted to me. But a
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Speaker 1: band of duck as cool as hell, like tag bears
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Speaker 1: no collar? Now collar, I wouldn't want to it. I'm
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Speaker 1: shooting it. Steve thinks that because some other man's hands
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Speaker 1: have been on the animal prior to his, that there
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Speaker 1: is some sort of corruption has occurred. Contained no longer,
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Speaker 1: here is the driven snow. I would shoot it for sure.
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Speaker 1: A collar? Would you? Then? Would you then take photos
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Speaker 1: of you with the collared animal? Or did you caught
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Speaker 1: the collar off? No, I'd take a photo of the
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Speaker 1: collar and then start wearing the collar, and your in
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Speaker 1: your caps would be not the first guy to handle this.
10:41
Speaker 1: I just that's like I see it, his uh meet
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Speaker 1: in the freezer. The caption could also read, look at
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Speaker 1: this science at work? All right, so let's very last
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Speaker 1: day to hunt. You've been grinding up for fourteen days
10:55
Speaker 1: in the color. When walks by at six o'clock at night,
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Speaker 1: last day, change your mind. No, I'm not that good
11:01
Speaker 1: of an elkhunner yet, so if that thing came into
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Speaker 1: me that I see that as maybe my only opportunity
11:08
Speaker 1: this season. In regards to the micro chip eating the
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Speaker 1: micro chip, Yeah, the the data is like once you
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Speaker 1: get a mortality signal, which all immortality signal is is
11:20
Speaker 1: when something hasn't moved for a period of time depending
11:25
Speaker 1: on the species. Like, once they get that, then you
11:29
Speaker 1: know kind of they want to go retrieve the thing.
11:37
Speaker 1: It's you know, for us, it's gonna end up. You know,
11:40
Speaker 1: let's say you're out hunting for fourteen days and you
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Speaker 1: ate that thing early on in the hunt, It's gonna
11:46
Speaker 1: end up in a pit toilet somewhere, right, So I
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Speaker 1: don't I don't think you gotta worry about being tracked
11:53
Speaker 1: as long as you're a regular fella. Like so you're saying,
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Speaker 1: if you're a Kentuckian, Yeah, and you shoot a collar, dear,
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Speaker 1: and and choose to eat hole muscle meat and not
12:02
Speaker 1: ground and do ingest this tracking chip, and you're worry
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Speaker 1: about government interference in your life, you will eventually pass it. Yes,
12:10
Speaker 1: you will scat it out, and you will then be
12:13
Speaker 1: free of the government following you around. Yes, you will
12:16
Speaker 1: have led them to the Flying J truck stop. We
12:21
Speaker 1: heard a good story from I think it's Robert Abernathy
12:24
Speaker 1: told us the story one time where they had some
12:26
Speaker 1: turkeys and they had those little tracking they can glue
12:31
Speaker 1: these temporary I saw that in Tennessee. They can glue
12:35
Speaker 1: these temporary chips up into their UH feathers and all
12:41
Speaker 1: the feathers out, get a bare patch of skin and
12:43
Speaker 1: then glue. Anyways, he they one day got a signal
12:48
Speaker 1: from one of their turkeys that he was headed down
12:50
Speaker 1: the highway hi rate of speed, Hi rate of speed.
12:55
Speaker 1: And I think that the story. I think the way
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Speaker 1: the story goes is that it must be the person
12:59
Speaker 1: went to plug the turkey or skin it and realized
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Speaker 1: what it had on it, because when they finally went
13:06
Speaker 1: there and found the dang thing it was, I think
13:09
Speaker 1: he said it was like buried under a woodpile or something,
13:11
Speaker 1: or stuffed under a woodpile. But the guy realized that
13:14
Speaker 1: the go of was coming. Yeah, the guy poached a
13:19
Speaker 1: tracking device turkey. Remember a long time ago when we
13:23
Speaker 1: did that episode with Bracy Hill, our friend Bracy Hill,
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Speaker 1: and it was about hunting, like UH discussions about hunting
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Speaker 1: in the Bible. Um, the guy wrote in curious why
13:36
Speaker 1: we didn't include why we didn't get into this quote.
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Speaker 1: There's a quote in the Bible. It's a Proverbs twelve
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Speaker 1: that says the lazy do not roast any game, but
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Speaker 1: the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt. Which
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Speaker 1: is a good quote. And I was looking at up
14:00
Speaker 1: try to figure out where it came from, what it meant.
14:02
Speaker 1: And you know how, there's all kinds of different versions.
14:05
Speaker 1: There's all the different versions of the Bible. If you
14:08
Speaker 1: look at all the different versions of the Bible, that
14:12
Speaker 1: quote means a thousand different things, like so, the lazy
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Speaker 1: do not roast any game, but the diligent feet on
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Speaker 1: the riches of the hunt. That's like the new International version,
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Speaker 1: the New Living translation, lazy people don't even cook the
14:25
Speaker 1: game they catch, but the diligent make use of everything
14:29
Speaker 1: they find. And then the English standard version, whoever is
14:34
Speaker 1: slothful will not roast his game, but the diligent man
14:38
Speaker 1: will get precious wealth. Uh, the Brillon lazy man does
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Speaker 1: not roast his game, but a diligent man prizes his possession.
14:51
Speaker 1: King James, the slothful man roasteth not that which he
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Speaker 1: took in hunting, but the substance of a diligent man
14:59
Speaker 1: is precious. Think about all that. It's complicated. It's complicated.
15:06
Speaker 1: It's like a game at telephone about hunting. Uh. Yeah,
15:12
Speaker 1: it's interestingly the transition from like, well, meat, it's not
15:15
Speaker 1: quite valuable enough, so we're gonna make it and change
15:20
Speaker 1: that word riches or substance. Aren't those two versions? Yeah? Uh?
15:27
Speaker 1: Two last quick things. No, I'm gonna get to this
15:29
Speaker 1: stuff later. One last quick thing. Me and Seth. You're
15:32
Speaker 1: still good, Jason, you get aunties all get out. I'm good.
15:35
Speaker 1: I can listen to stories. Uh. Me and South is
15:40
Speaker 1: starting playing out our our winter trap line. So anyone
15:44
Speaker 1: that had this is a public service announcement, I'm gonna
15:46
Speaker 1: try to spend it like I'm gonna spin it like
15:50
Speaker 1: instead of them doing us a favor, we'll spend it
15:54
Speaker 1: like we're doing them a favor. Oh, we're definitely doing
15:56
Speaker 1: them a favor. So anyone um who's got nuisance beaver
16:01
Speaker 1: muskrat problems and they'd like to get him taken care of, yeah,
16:08
Speaker 1: send it. Go on, go on to the meat Eater
16:10
Speaker 1: dot com and send us an email and you can
16:12
Speaker 1: just make the subject line up beavers with a capital
16:14
Speaker 1: with an exclamation point, ye, and then we'll feel them
16:18
Speaker 1: and well we'll range as far as big timber. Yeah,
16:20
Speaker 1: for news beavers, nuisance muskrats. Yeah, we don't want to
16:23
Speaker 1: go across the state, but yeah, fairly local. Good beaver
16:27
Speaker 1: removal service, Free beaver removal service for nuisance beavers southwest Montana.
16:32
Speaker 1: And uh, seth, do we when we find a gate close,
16:35
Speaker 1: how do we leave it? We leave it close? And
16:37
Speaker 1: we find a gate open, how do we uh leave it? Um? Well,
16:41
Speaker 1: if it's supposed to be closed, we'll close it. If
16:43
Speaker 1: it's if it's supposed to be open, well, we'll keep
16:45
Speaker 1: it the way it is. Let's say a landowner says
16:47
Speaker 1: to us Steth, he says, you boways, go ahead and
16:49
Speaker 1: catch all them beavers, but don't don't let me catch
16:52
Speaker 1: you shooting my elk. What would we shoot those out?
16:55
Speaker 1: We would not shoot the elk, No, sir, We're just
16:57
Speaker 1: there for beavers. If he said, don't drive in my
16:59
Speaker 1: field once wet, would we drive on that field? Seth? Nope,
17:03
Speaker 1: we'd be doing a lot of walking. Reliable conscientious beaver removal, respectful,
17:09
Speaker 1: respectful beaver removal services. Um, and if they just wanted
17:13
Speaker 1: to drop him off here at the office in Bozeman, Montana,
17:16
Speaker 1: you guys would say, no, no, no, that's might want
17:24
Speaker 1: to flash him. No. I spent many years doing that,
17:28
Speaker 1: and I'd rather just catch him myself. Yeah, you guys
17:31
Speaker 1: will do We talk about this ever before, used to
17:33
Speaker 1: flesh hides for a fur buyer. We might have I
17:37
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. You guys hit it hard
17:39
Speaker 1: enough because I threw that picture you guys working way
17:42
Speaker 1: up on the Instagram and folks right like that guy
17:45
Speaker 1: know what he's doing. Its wearing flip flops. I called
17:49
Speaker 1: the flip flop flasher man. People were very interested in
17:53
Speaker 1: me wearing flip flops names he's uh, he's dp double
17:57
Speaker 1: punch or the flip flop flasher. Uh, where's the double
18:02
Speaker 1: punch come from? He doesn't like it. It's a long
18:06
Speaker 1: story that he doesn't like. Um. What was I gonna
18:10
Speaker 1: tell you to say about seth? Oh? Yeah? So when
18:11
Speaker 1: you sell fur, like like, if we just want our
18:14
Speaker 1: we want our own furs for hats and mittens and
18:16
Speaker 1: pillows and queen size comforters. But um, I'm gonna make
18:20
Speaker 1: a California king. That's why I'm trying to solicit. Uh.
18:23
Speaker 1: Does that mean a real big king sized bed California. Yes,
18:28
Speaker 1: I'm fixing to make a California king sized comforter out
18:31
Speaker 1: of beaver pelts. That's why we need a lot of
18:32
Speaker 1: dem nuisance beavers. Uh. But when you sell fur, you
18:37
Speaker 1: can sell it three ways. Guys will sell it in
18:40
Speaker 1: the round, which is that's just the animal that's just
18:44
Speaker 1: selling like a raccoon to a fur buyer. You can
18:47
Speaker 1: sell it green, which is skinned and not fleshed and dried.
18:51
Speaker 1: You could sell it flesh and not dried, but no
18:53
Speaker 1: one in the right mind would ever do that. No.
18:57
Speaker 1: Or you can sell it ready to roll, flesh and dried.
19:00
Speaker 1: Seth used to have a job. Or he would go
19:02
Speaker 1: after high school down to the fur buyer and he
19:04
Speaker 1: would skin. Would you skin or just flesh? Skin, flash
19:09
Speaker 1: and put them up skin flesh and put up raccoons
19:12
Speaker 1: and some beavers, muskrats, fox, coyote, mink. Uh, pretty much
19:20
Speaker 1: anything that was legal to trap at that point in time.
19:23
Speaker 1: Was that an hourly paying job or per animal? Oh,
19:27
Speaker 1: it's per animal. Would you make fleshing the raccoon hide?
19:31
Speaker 1: I don't remember. It's like it was maybe like four
19:35
Speaker 1: or five bucks to skin it, four or five bucks
19:38
Speaker 1: to flesh it, but there's no money left over. I
19:40
Speaker 1: guess in those days the prices are pretty good on raccoons.
19:43
Speaker 1: Then I was in high school too, so like just
19:46
Speaker 1: some extra money, like like I wasn't, but he's I'm saying, right,
19:53
Speaker 1: if the markets got low enough, I wonder if your
19:56
Speaker 1: pay goes down, and never seemed to go down. I
20:00
Speaker 1: used to peel logs for a log home builder, and
20:02
Speaker 1: it was thirty five cents a foot. I don't know
20:04
Speaker 1: what it is nowadays, but they paid you thirty five
20:07
Speaker 1: cents per foot to peel logs. But I have a
20:11
Speaker 1: hard time picture that they're going to give you eight
20:13
Speaker 1: bucks the skin and flesh and a raccoon. Are you
20:16
Speaker 1: lying to us? No, that's I mean because I was
20:18
Speaker 1: just trying to build us. I was just trying to
20:20
Speaker 1: build up our credibility. I had a lot of those
20:22
Speaker 1: jobs that same time frame, and I often found it
20:27
Speaker 1: was how you could take advantage of a high school kid,
20:30
Speaker 1: because I'd bust there'd be good little manual for X amount,
20:36
Speaker 1: and then I'd be like, yeah, I did double that,
20:38
Speaker 1: so that's thirty bucks instead of fifteen bucks. And they'd
20:42
Speaker 1: be like, whoa what, Well, I didn't really want to
20:44
Speaker 1: pay that. I'd be like, okay, that sounds for you
20:49
Speaker 1: know my buddy Tommy Edson, Um you know him. N
20:53
Speaker 1: He one time he knew this old guy that he
20:58
Speaker 1: was along like Tommy was like his grandma lived along
21:00
Speaker 1: to Columbia and some little guy had dug a big
21:04
Speaker 1: pond on his property wanted to stock with bullheads. Lord
21:07
Speaker 1: knows why, but that's what you wanted to stock him with.
21:09
Speaker 1: And he told tom He's like, I'll give you a
21:13
Speaker 1: dolerable head. Not know when he's getting himself into so
21:17
Speaker 1: he like set himself to work. He says, when it
21:20
Speaker 1: comes time for delivery, he likes his mob drives him over,
21:23
Speaker 1: you know, and she pops the trunk. He's got all
21:25
Speaker 1: these buckets in there. And the guy looks in there
21:27
Speaker 1: and he's got he kinda has Oh. He's like, yeah,
21:32
Speaker 1: I'll give you a hundred bucks for the whole thing. Wow,
21:36
Speaker 1: he had over a hundred. I think it was a
21:38
Speaker 1: dumb everybody said. The guy was just like, well, I
21:40
Speaker 1: didn't really mean that may exactly all right, Jason Belts
21:48
Speaker 1: where we at hit him any No, I want to
21:52
Speaker 1: do this one. Who invented the diaphragm call? We're just
21:56
Speaker 1: talking about that. I think we we not know what. Well,
22:00
Speaker 1: there's there's two guys. I think it's Wayne Carlton Ben
22:03
Speaker 1: the diaphragm well not the diaphragm so, I mean on
22:05
Speaker 1: the OLK call side. He basically took a turkey call
22:08
Speaker 1: and rolled it into the OLT calls. I don't know, Um,
22:11
Speaker 1: the history on who invented like the very first diaphragm
22:13
Speaker 1: call for turkeys, um or any other game is that
22:15
Speaker 1: maybe unknowable? Uh yeah, I don't know if anybody's because
22:21
Speaker 1: Wayne and Larry Jones on the OLK call side, but
22:24
Speaker 1: there were turkey calls before that, which maybe Wayne was
22:27
Speaker 1: even involved in a little bit. What year was that
22:29
Speaker 1: going on? I remember my yeah, I remember my my
22:34
Speaker 1: half brother Frank was an out guide in Colorado and
22:39
Speaker 1: they used to use PDC pipe and turkey calls. And
22:43
Speaker 1: now when people were just like it was like a
22:45
Speaker 1: new thing, you know. Yeah, I mean in the history
22:47
Speaker 1: of hunting compared like the history of game calls, it's
22:49
Speaker 1: like it's very very new. Still game calls very very
22:53
Speaker 1: short timeline and only forty fifty years. I mean they've
22:56
Speaker 1: been using old you know, grass and in predator calls
22:59
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But as far was like the market, um,
23:01
Speaker 1: fairly fairly new. The I got sent a bunch of
23:05
Speaker 1: pictures from this museum in France, all these very intricate,
23:12
Speaker 1: very very old bird calls, like ranging from you know,
23:17
Speaker 1: songbirds with which they're big on eating all the way
23:20
Speaker 1: through ducks and geese. But these things like look like
23:22
Speaker 1: accordions or like crazy smoking apparatus. I had many guesses
23:27
Speaker 1: before I got to the correct Oh you you didn't
23:30
Speaker 1: look at immediately be like that's some kind of game call. No, No,
23:33
Speaker 1: they're very intricate. I'll dig up those pictures here at
23:35
Speaker 1: some point. And uh, when we were hanging around down
23:38
Speaker 1: in South America, when they try to call in the
23:40
Speaker 1: tape here, they still use a blade of grass, which
23:43
Speaker 1: is kind of a read right, just it's all about
23:45
Speaker 1: that vibration of that material, so anything will work. So
23:49
Speaker 1: who were talking about the Tell everyone about how Elkolin
23:54
Speaker 1: came into being a thing. I mean, how well is
23:57
Speaker 1: it known? Like now, how did it start? Back? Talk
24:00
Speaker 1: about like the late seventies early eighties whatever, when people
24:02
Speaker 1: started messing around with the idea that you calling out
24:04
Speaker 1: or bugle in elk you know. Yeah, So I mean
24:06
Speaker 1: I think it's just you know, as a hunter and
24:09
Speaker 1: trying to take advantage of the seasons we were giving.
24:10
Speaker 1: Like somebody just realized, hey, these things are rutting there
24:13
Speaker 1: and you know, trying to imitate them. And so I
24:15
Speaker 1: think it was just natural. You know, Wayne Carlton, you
24:18
Speaker 1: might know the story better that um. You know, he
24:20
Speaker 1: was able to key run on a turkey call, which
24:22
Speaker 1: we build some of those calls for um, and just
24:25
Speaker 1: basically realize that, hey, I sound like an ELK went
24:27
Speaker 1: out and you know, put it to work in September
24:29
Speaker 1: and realize, hey, we can call these things in pretty effectively.
24:31
Speaker 1: Do a do a keky run for everyone? Oh you
24:37
Speaker 1: always to do my mouth? No, no, hell no, I'll
24:39
Speaker 1: do what A call the whole sack of him. It's
24:48
Speaker 1: a it's an ima immature immature, our immature turkey call.
24:54
Speaker 1: And then they it's basically a young, a young immature
24:58
Speaker 1: turkey trying to to yell. Yeah. Guys that hunt turkeys
25:01
Speaker 1: with dogs, right, Um, don't they when they when they
25:06
Speaker 1: go on the fall, and you scatter up the whole crew,
25:09
Speaker 1: scatter up a flock and then they'll kind of get
25:11
Speaker 1: in a central location to try to start calling the
25:13
Speaker 1: flock back together. A lot of yeah, a lot of
25:15
Speaker 1: kikiS in the fall. Yeah, that's that's what that's I've
25:18
Speaker 1: never done that, but that's I think that's the call
25:20
Speaker 1: they use, that long drawn out he helps and stuff.
25:22
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just and so that we design a
25:25
Speaker 1: turkey call to do that kiki and it's very very
25:28
Speaker 1: similar to a cow call um, you know when we
25:30
Speaker 1: get when we get as was like, hey, I'm a
25:31
Speaker 1: turkey callor never touching elk call, and Tim like, hey,
25:34
Speaker 1: can you keeky run on some double and triple reads
25:36
Speaker 1: and they said yeah. I'm like, well you're gonna be.
25:38
Speaker 1: You hit the ground running on calls, you'll be able
25:39
Speaker 1: to figure it out real quick. So when you make
25:41
Speaker 1: a when you make a call for that turkey sound,
25:43
Speaker 1: it's just a single read. It's a it's usually a
25:45
Speaker 1: triple was like a ghost cut. So you're trying to
25:47
Speaker 1: remove you don't want any overhanging in the middle. You
25:49
Speaker 1: want that middle to be clean so you can get
25:50
Speaker 1: those high pitched key run so it's uses like a
25:53
Speaker 1: ghost cut or or a straight read. Hey, real quick, gunny,
25:58
Speaker 1: explain to explained to these boys, the um are you
26:03
Speaker 1: looking at me like that? I'm just trying to prepare
26:08
Speaker 1: my mind for what's coming at me. Explained to these boys.
26:11
Speaker 1: The guys upcut, oh um, the guys that cut. I
26:18
Speaker 1: sent pictures of the guys up cut to Jason. But
26:22
Speaker 1: it's basically like a small you shaped cut out of
26:27
Speaker 1: one side, and then within that you shape, there's two
26:30
Speaker 1: little micro slits, and then at the opposite end of
26:34
Speaker 1: the call there's a micro slit, and then from there
26:38
Speaker 1: he starts there and then to dial in the diaphragm.
26:42
Speaker 1: He just slowly shaves like the fleeting edge of the
26:46
Speaker 1: top read. And as that as you find where you
26:50
Speaker 1: wanted to be, you stopped. You you just you stop
26:53
Speaker 1: clipping little edges off, you know, the front edge off
26:56
Speaker 1: of that call. I don't, I don't. I don't want
26:59
Speaker 1: to criticize if I feel like folks at home would
27:01
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, I can
27:06
Speaker 1: go all the way back to you know why it's
27:09
Speaker 1: it's largely my fault. Can you explain what it explain
27:14
Speaker 1: a diaphragm call the people. I mean they can hopefully
27:17
Speaker 1: they can just pick up their phone and type in
27:18
Speaker 1: like diaphragm alcohol. Yeah. So we basically have three parts.
27:21
Speaker 1: We have a piece of tape. We have an aluminum frame.
27:23
Speaker 1: We have latex, whether it's single, double, triple stack. It
27:26
Speaker 1: looks like a filled in horse shoe. Yep, yep, you
27:28
Speaker 1: gotta you put this little piece in your mouth that's
27:30
Speaker 1: maybe inch and a half wide, inch deep and um.
27:34
Speaker 1: That latex and whatever fashion it is, vibrates um. As
27:37
Speaker 1: you blow air across that, you get a seal with
27:39
Speaker 1: that tape. All the air that comes out of your
27:41
Speaker 1: diaphragm your chest will go across that latex and it
27:44
Speaker 1: vibrates um. And it's that vibration that gives us a
27:46
Speaker 1: different sounds. So you know how we have how we
27:48
Speaker 1: stretch the call, the thickness of the latex, the cuts,
27:52
Speaker 1: the overhangs, all that effects that sound. We get out
27:54
Speaker 1: of that call and you can put one piece of
27:56
Speaker 1: latex three four three. I mean you could use the
28:01
Speaker 1: latex from a rubber right. Yeah. We we have used
28:04
Speaker 1: condoms on when when the prophylactics and shorts supply, So
28:07
Speaker 1: a lot of your good turkey calls really sendles out
28:09
Speaker 1: to folks. We we have, Uh, if you go, if
28:12
Speaker 1: you were to go look at my call Ben, I've
28:13
Speaker 1: got like tons of rolled up condoms, like you know,
28:17
Speaker 1: there's no no coding on them, but they're just basically
28:19
Speaker 1: robbed condoms that we can cut up and get squares
28:23
Speaker 1: out of and use to make calls. And when you
28:26
Speaker 1: go down and buy all those at the drug store,
28:29
Speaker 1: no no, no, no, we're like, oh, you know, just
28:31
Speaker 1: making some game calls. Factory direct the coming big giant bags.
28:39
Speaker 1: So it's the same latex. Yeah, yeah, I mean for
28:41
Speaker 1: the most part, it's it's one of the types we
28:43
Speaker 1: can use. Can you use latex gloves Latex that's too thick?
28:46
Speaker 1: Usually that's usually like five six mill Everything we use
28:49
Speaker 1: is like in the four thousands. The Max will use
28:51
Speaker 1: like five thousands latex was really thin, like dental grade latex.
28:56
Speaker 1: And when you say tape, the body of it's made
28:58
Speaker 1: out of tape. Yep, tape. It's it's really gaffer's tape.
29:01
Speaker 1: Everything that we use on our calls is basically just
29:03
Speaker 1: the colored gaffer's tape. We had everything in house then
29:08
Speaker 1: sets taping. Where do you get the frames from? You said,
29:17
Speaker 1: you have a manufactured design and then we have a
29:18
Speaker 1: progressive die. So it takes like four stages. You know.
29:21
Speaker 1: The first stage it'll it'll cut to cut the center out,
29:24
Speaker 1: the second stage will shape the frame, third will cut
29:27
Speaker 1: the perimeter, and then um, it spits into a little bucket.
29:30
Speaker 1: So the thing builds like you do that in house. No,
29:33
Speaker 1: we don't do that in house. That we outsourced that.
29:35
Speaker 1: So that's one of those things. It's just it's two
29:37
Speaker 1: time consuming and it's it's expensive to do in house.
29:41
Speaker 1: So are you guys like stamping the frame out of
29:45
Speaker 1: like aluminum or does that come yep, that's just um
29:49
Speaker 1: we we specify the thickness we played with that. Um
29:51
Speaker 1: we apply adhesive backers, so there's actually adhesive on the
29:54
Speaker 1: inside of that clamshell. And then it's just a little
29:57
Speaker 1: It starts its life as a strip that's as you know,
29:59
Speaker 1: as white as it runs through that progressive die and
30:02
Speaker 1: and punches it out in like four stages are normal
30:05
Speaker 1: our Turkey call frames that don't have like the amp
30:08
Speaker 1: dome on the top. It's only like a three stage
30:10
Speaker 1: progressive die. So it's just Um, you know there's guys
30:12
Speaker 1: that are a lot you know, even as an engineer,
30:14
Speaker 1: there's guys that are tolling engineers. They'll just they'll look
30:16
Speaker 1: at our drawing and say, oh, this is the most
30:17
Speaker 1: efficient way to build this part. So what we're talking
30:22
Speaker 1: about is when you make one of these calls, you
30:26
Speaker 1: stretch the you stretch the elastic, or stretch the latex,
30:29
Speaker 1: and then there's all kinds of manipulations. You can do
30:31
Speaker 1: the latex, cutting little shapes and do them whatnot. And
30:35
Speaker 1: that's always done on the top read. Correct. You can
30:39
Speaker 1: do it on the bottom read, but it doesn't have
30:41
Speaker 1: any effect. I mean, you can cut the heck out
30:42
Speaker 1: of the bottom read, but it's that top read that
30:44
Speaker 1: has the overhanging material that vibrates because you're pushing air
30:47
Speaker 1: basically from the bottom to the top. Those top little
30:50
Speaker 1: fingers or any of the overhanging material is what's vibrating,
30:53
Speaker 1: giving you that rasp on a turkey call. We're on
30:55
Speaker 1: an elk call. You see that. We usually always have
30:57
Speaker 1: a leading edges straight and that's when we can get
30:59
Speaker 1: those clean, more elk like sounds. We don't want anything overhanging. Um,
31:03
Speaker 1: you want to rasp old. I mean, yeah, I'm on
31:06
Speaker 1: the out call side. Will just do it with their
31:07
Speaker 1: voice or you know, throw or whatever. So our body,
31:11
Speaker 1: UM likes to. I don't want to. I'm not gonna.
31:15
Speaker 1: I don't want to insult your business. Maybe even encourages
31:18
Speaker 1: our body is so particular. Our buddy guys Uck is
31:22
Speaker 1: so particular. He's been on this show. He calls turkeys.
31:25
Speaker 1: He a lot of times. He used to be a
31:26
Speaker 1: competitive no call caller, this mouth mouth calling caller. But
31:32
Speaker 1: he's particular. So he likes to get one that's not
31:34
Speaker 1: been cut because he likes to make his own little
31:37
Speaker 1: cuts in it with fly tie and scissors. Um, do
31:41
Speaker 1: you do you sell stuff for that purpose? Do you
31:42
Speaker 1: have a lot of people that like to do that
31:43
Speaker 1: that are so finicky? We don't, I think, I mean,
31:46
Speaker 1: and that's what It's unfortunate that, Um, you know, we're
31:49
Speaker 1: trying to design these and build him for the masses,
31:52
Speaker 1: and so I think, you know, guy sounds like he
31:53
Speaker 1: might be like a one per center, Like nobody wants
31:55
Speaker 1: they want to be able to open this. Yeah, call
31:57
Speaker 1: all the package and be ready to roll. But when
31:59
Speaker 1: you here's what I'm trying to drive at so. Then
32:01
Speaker 1: Yanni explained that he talked about what he does with
32:04
Speaker 1: his scissors again, like how he cuts that little he
32:07
Speaker 1: cuts that latex piece. Yeah, he definitely had. There was
32:10
Speaker 1: a set of steps to make sure, like he would
32:13
Speaker 1: pull it one direction, cut it and that would make
32:15
Speaker 1: the little U and get in there, make two little
32:18
Speaker 1: cuts within the U. This is all on the top read,
32:21
Speaker 1: and you'd go to the far end of that piece
32:24
Speaker 1: of a text, cut a little slit when I'm talking little,
32:27
Speaker 1: it's like micro sixteenth of an inch probably, and then
32:31
Speaker 1: shave like a sixteenth of the nich off the overhanging edge.
32:35
Speaker 1: And then as he called on it, if it was
32:37
Speaker 1: too raspy, he would back off and keep cutting and
32:40
Speaker 1: shorten that top read until he got the sound. He like,
32:42
Speaker 1: I need to put my reading glasses on just to
32:44
Speaker 1: think about him in there doing that, which all makes sense.
32:47
Speaker 1: I mean, the more overhanging material, the raspier then so
32:50
Speaker 1: the more you can, you know, cut that back. It's
32:52
Speaker 1: just we try to get you know, when we do
32:54
Speaker 1: all of our cutting, we're trying to get the way there.
32:56
Speaker 1: That's you know, I hate to say the word good
32:58
Speaker 1: enough when we're trying to build really good calls, but
33:00
Speaker 1: you know, we get there. The thought call is good
33:02
Speaker 1: enough for guys that pull out the box. And I
33:05
Speaker 1: wouldn't trustcent of people taking scissors to one of our
33:08
Speaker 1: calls because they're gonna screwed it up in some forms.
33:10
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't have Yeah. He's also told me
33:11
Speaker 1: to keep minding. He made three of them for me
33:13
Speaker 1: and told me keeping the frieze fridging freezers by far
33:16
Speaker 1: the best. Yeah, freezer freezer, get him dry and then
33:19
Speaker 1: throw them in the freezer, saying with your spear gun bands?
33:21
Speaker 1: Is that right? I hang mine in the garage. We're
33:25
Speaker 1: supposed to keep a spear gun band in the freezer? Huh?
33:29
Speaker 1: All right, we have a little area my freezers full
33:31
Speaker 1: of calls and spear gun bands. That was a common question.
33:34
Speaker 1: We had a lot we we asked for questions um
33:37
Speaker 1: for this podcast about ELK calls and calling and whatnot,
33:40
Speaker 1: and a lot of people ask like how long do
33:42
Speaker 1: they last? What's the and what's the best storage? Can
33:44
Speaker 1: we can we hold that of mix? I still need
33:45
Speaker 1: to put this one idea to bed, then you can
33:47
Speaker 1: pick that up. When you saw the guy's upcut, were
33:51
Speaker 1: you like I've seen that a thousand times that any
33:54
Speaker 1: ship or did you look at it and be like,
33:56
Speaker 1: huh no, we we make a corner cut call that
33:59
Speaker 1: has a real them were cut now where he takes
34:01
Speaker 1: it the next level when he's putting those little micro
34:03
Speaker 1: cuts and he's he's releasing tension in the upper read
34:06
Speaker 1: to pull that tune in the where he wanted you.
34:09
Speaker 1: Just like I said, we've seen that cut. It makes
34:11
Speaker 1: sense on why it works the way it does. But um,
34:14
Speaker 1: we just we do a corner cutting and we don't
34:15
Speaker 1: put any of micro cuts in and I believe a
34:18
Speaker 1: corner cut right. What he liked about it is that
34:21
Speaker 1: he feels that I think that you can get raspy
34:23
Speaker 1: on one side of it and then blow on the
34:25
Speaker 1: other side of it and get that clean sound that
34:27
Speaker 1: would be able to do a key key run exactly.
34:29
Speaker 1: And that's why the combo cuts the most popular tricky
34:31
Speaker 1: call cut because you have you have the triangle and
34:33
Speaker 1: the overhanging on the left side, and then you have
34:35
Speaker 1: like a clear space on the right side, and so
34:37
Speaker 1: you can direct air at different directions on the call
34:39
Speaker 1: and clean it up or out rasp Are you serious
34:41
Speaker 1: you're doing that? Oh yeah, and and so channeling the left, right, left, right, yeah. So.
34:45
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm not even a tricky call nerd compared
34:47
Speaker 1: to some of these guys. Some of these guys will like,
34:49
Speaker 1: I'll get an email like, hey, I'm a right I'm
34:51
Speaker 1: a right right side blower. I'm like, um, okay, you know,
34:55
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, can't you just move there to the
34:56
Speaker 1: other side, because because we usually cut, like our combo
34:59
Speaker 1: cut always put the the V and the triangle on
35:01
Speaker 1: one side of the call. He's like, can you build
35:03
Speaker 1: that call for me in reverse? Well can't? Can't you
35:05
Speaker 1: just blow the other way? You know? But some of
35:08
Speaker 1: these guys are that particular. They're they're nuts. I'm just
35:17
Speaker 1: dead center center man, Like, is it just showing cow
35:21
Speaker 1: right now where you open your mouth? No, Like, they're
35:24
Speaker 1: directing either the most of the air here on the
35:27
Speaker 1: left right side of the diaphragm or the left side
35:29
Speaker 1: of the diaphragm. And if you had the overhanging material
35:32
Speaker 1: on this side and you directed it to the right side,
35:34
Speaker 1: you'd have cleaner sound. Or if you directed it at
35:38
Speaker 1: the cut and you overhang material, you'd pick up more
35:39
Speaker 1: of that rasp. Maybe I do that stuff, but I
35:43
Speaker 1: sure don't think about it. That's that's next level Turkey column. Yeah,
35:48
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a shirt. If your buddy guys ut
35:50
Speaker 1: would to using other Turkey techniques then calling you probably
35:55
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to mess around with any of that stuff,
35:57
Speaker 1: such as decoys and fans and things like that. He
36:01
Speaker 1: doesn't like those things, so he doesn't want to know.
36:03
Speaker 1: He was impressed by my custom Turkey fan Guy. Oh
36:07
Speaker 1: is that? Oh? Sorry, I scream, no, this guy is
36:11
Speaker 1: named Guy. It was just confused the hell out of
36:17
Speaker 1: my kids name met him, like what's his name? It's
36:18
Speaker 1: like his name is Guy, and what's that guy's name? Um?
36:27
Speaker 1: He doesn't believe. He doesn't like to use decoys. Nope,
36:31
Speaker 1: but he did like my fan that I made. He
36:33
Speaker 1: liked how creative and inventive it was. Remember that. Um okay,
36:39
Speaker 1: and I'll go into what you're going. My my fan
36:41
Speaker 1: proved his reasoning for not using decoys. He'd rather mess
36:45
Speaker 1: up with the calls or something else that he did
36:47
Speaker 1: as opposed to having the decoy mess it up. And
36:49
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, but this fan works every single time.
36:53
Speaker 1: And so I went and sat down where we knew
36:55
Speaker 1: golver was coming through in the afternoons, and I saw
36:57
Speaker 1: the gobbler comment. And as soon as the Goldler got
37:00
Speaker 1: within range of seeing that decoy picked up his head.
37:02
Speaker 1: He looked at it, and he turned around once, looked
37:04
Speaker 1: at it, turned around again, looked at it, and then
37:06
Speaker 1: turned around the third time and walked away. The more yeah,
37:10
Speaker 1: the more I look at yours what's his name? Oh,
37:17
Speaker 1: you had a few names, dirty Harry, slim shade, the shady,
37:23
Speaker 1: the more incredulous I get. It just is like, were
37:29
Speaker 1: you incredulous about how many turkeys came running to him?
37:33
Speaker 1: But the more I look at him, the more I
37:34
Speaker 1: could see that some turkeys will be like what and
37:38
Speaker 1: you had that? I thought you had that problem in Wisconsin. No,
37:42
Speaker 1: that's what I heard, the slim shade he was scaring
37:45
Speaker 1: him away. No, the only bird that he scared away
37:48
Speaker 1: was that one in Michigan that like guys like prophetic
37:53
Speaker 1: prophetically said that it would and then it did. All right,
37:57
Speaker 1: go on with what you're going on about. Uh, we're
38:00
Speaker 1: gonna talk about storage and length of a lifetime of
38:04
Speaker 1: a call. Speak to that you know they're during use
38:09
Speaker 1: like practice, I would say, you know, six months a
38:11
Speaker 1: year out of them, no problem. Turkey calls, especially flat
38:14
Speaker 1: turkey called double triple reads, you're gonna get you know,
38:16
Speaker 1: years out of them. Um, it's just the way they're
38:18
Speaker 1: design and constructed. Now like our our ELK calls the
38:21
Speaker 1: ant frames, the way we stretch out latex is a
38:23
Speaker 1: lot looser so that they're more user friendly. Um, you know,
38:26
Speaker 1: you get six months to a year out of it.
38:27
Speaker 1: But I say during hunting season, you're probably switching out
38:30
Speaker 1: diaphragms once every three days. Um, if you're being a
38:33
Speaker 1: lot seriously, Yeah, it's just the I mean, because so
38:36
Speaker 1: you make the amp frame that's meant for people that
38:39
Speaker 1: suck at calling. No, I mean we all use them too.
38:42
Speaker 1: It makes our our job really easy. It's they make
38:44
Speaker 1: the right tone. But but the one downside is you
38:48
Speaker 1: stretch them so loose, the latex fairly loose in order
38:52
Speaker 1: to get that ease of use that you will tend
38:54
Speaker 1: to you know, blow them out after three days. And
38:56
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily blow them out. The diaphragm just gets
39:00
Speaker 1: orchard when it's in your mouth all day. That's really
39:02
Speaker 1: the driving factor on wearing that thing down fast versus
39:04
Speaker 1: when you're practicing at home. You know, you picked off
39:06
Speaker 1: the counter, blowing up for ten minutes, throwback on the
39:08
Speaker 1: counter and it gets a chance to dry out. Where
39:11
Speaker 1: when you're out cutting, you typically have that thing, you know,
39:13
Speaker 1: stuff in your cheek for hours on end, and that's
39:16
Speaker 1: really what starts to tear that thing apart, just being
39:18
Speaker 1: wet all the time. Guys Luck warned us against eating
39:21
Speaker 1: um buffalo squirrel legs and stuff like that and then
39:26
Speaker 1: using your call. Do you believe that, like just specifically
39:29
Speaker 1: buffalo squirrel spicy spicy food. I'm more he says it
39:34
Speaker 1: all weak in the latex. I'm more worried about um
39:37
Speaker 1: sugar sticking everything together, like you know, somebody taking especially
39:40
Speaker 1: like the external cow calls. But all this stuff, you
39:43
Speaker 1: if there's multiple layers. You know, you drinking like a
39:46
Speaker 1: gatorade and then you go blow in the car right away,
39:47
Speaker 1: Well now you got sugar and every crack and everything
39:49
Speaker 1: sticking and then yeah, yeah, so is that right? I
39:52
Speaker 1: never thought of that sugary stuff, especially on the externals
39:55
Speaker 1: for sure, Like that makes us there's a mile our
39:58
Speaker 1: reads stick up, and so you know, just with out
40:00
Speaker 1: some water before you go crank on a call. How
40:02
Speaker 1: do you know one is no good anymore? It doesn't
40:03
Speaker 1: sound good anymore for us. It just starts to get dead.
40:06
Speaker 1: Like you got to hit a high note bugle and
40:07
Speaker 1: you're really trying to like throw it down the canyon.
40:09
Speaker 1: It's like it just kind of falls on his face.
40:12
Speaker 1: Is it cool to drive around with him on your
40:13
Speaker 1: dashboard in the hot sun? No? Well it's cool for
40:16
Speaker 1: me as a business owner. Kids, you have to buy
40:18
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to buy some more calls. I have
40:20
Speaker 1: that problem, and a lot of times I'll get in
40:21
Speaker 1: my truck it's so hot it burns your legs. My
40:24
Speaker 1: calls landing like, yeah, it's not good. Felsame calls Dash.
40:30
Speaker 1: That's our next product that's coming out is your diaphragm
40:32
Speaker 1: dash store. You're just just lyning all your diaphragms up
40:35
Speaker 1: on your dash and cook them to one sixty to some.
40:39
Speaker 1: I like to open up my little call pouch opening
40:43
Speaker 1: day of archery season and and then start digging through
40:46
Speaker 1: all my diaphragms that have pine needles and odd coloration
40:51
Speaker 1: to them and start popping those in my mouth and
40:53
Speaker 1: being like I've found them in my clothes dryer. As
41:00
Speaker 1: soon those are not good anymore were you're leaving your
41:03
Speaker 1: pants pocket. Some of them make it through. I think, Dirk,
41:06
Speaker 1: you sent thee through. I sent one through the dryer,
41:08
Speaker 1: and it still sounds pretty good, pretty good. It wasn't
41:12
Speaker 1: fresh and articulate, but it was pretty good. Uh. Do
41:15
Speaker 1: you guys get product returns where people returned that it
41:17
Speaker 1: doesn't work because they don't know how to use it.
41:21
Speaker 1: We do. I usually try to take care of him
41:22
Speaker 1: in like a roundabout way or give them a different option.
41:25
Speaker 1: But you do. And it's tough because you don't want
41:27
Speaker 1: to tell the person they sucked. Would you just would
41:29
Speaker 1: you just call him on the phone and be like,
41:30
Speaker 1: here's the call, here's your call. No, I've wanted to.
41:35
Speaker 1: I wanted people if it wasn't so gross, sent him back,
41:37
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna send you an audio file of
41:38
Speaker 1: me using that exact call you sent back. And the
41:40
Speaker 1: thing does work. But we usually take care of him.
41:42
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are a lot of people, especially this
41:44
Speaker 1: time of year. You know, new caller is getting him
41:46
Speaker 1: and say this thing doesn't work, and it just kind
41:48
Speaker 1: of bite your tongue and take care of him. Here's one.
41:51
Speaker 1: Here's one people call up they had bought a diaphragm,
41:55
Speaker 1: used it a bit, put it back in the in
41:57
Speaker 1: the the ziplock baggy. It came in and they see
42:00
Speaker 1: lit up wet, and then they like, two weeks later,
42:04
Speaker 1: this thing's moldy. It's moldy. Well you put it back
42:07
Speaker 1: in there wet for minutes. Yeah, it's gross. You can't
42:12
Speaker 1: do that. That's bad for calls, bad for phelps, bad
42:18
Speaker 1: for hygiene, bad for a lot of stuff. So keep them,
42:21
Speaker 1: you like to keep them in the freezer, dry out laying.
42:23
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll just lay them on the counter for
42:24
Speaker 1: two or three hours after I use them, let them
42:26
Speaker 1: dry out and then you know. So I'm pretty fortunate.
42:29
Speaker 1: I just go build new calls when I want calls,
42:31
Speaker 1: you know. But if you're gonna if you're buying an
42:33
Speaker 1: investing scenes, definitely, you know, fridge and freezer, dark um,
42:36
Speaker 1: dark kitchen counter, you know, or dark um drawer, any
42:39
Speaker 1: of that stuff will work best. Is it bad to
42:43
Speaker 1: soak them in mouthwash? It's not. It is. The acid
42:47
Speaker 1: in there can definitely break them down. I know a
42:48
Speaker 1: lot of people like brush them with their toothbrush at
42:50
Speaker 1: the end of the year, you know, or clean them off.
42:52
Speaker 1: But I would advise not putting any you know, some
42:53
Speaker 1: of that stuff is abrasive in your toothpaste or mouthwashing
42:56
Speaker 1: and alcohol, yeah, yeah, it's it's alcohol and you know,
43:00
Speaker 1: the acidic. And I think I would stay away from
43:03
Speaker 1: any of that sort of stuff because I've done that.
43:07
Speaker 1: I've done it a few times. Soaked it in mouthwash, yeah,
43:11
Speaker 1: just to make sure like there's no funk growing on there.
43:15
Speaker 1: You know what, what's the most common mistake that people
43:20
Speaker 1: make when they're trying to start learning how to call um?
43:24
Speaker 1: Keep it general, And I think the most common mistake
43:27
Speaker 1: is someone will pull it out of the package, put
43:31
Speaker 1: it in their mouth and try to do a full,
43:32
Speaker 1: big nasty bugle and not succeed and be like, well,
43:38
Speaker 1: I can't do this obviously, I don't know what I'm
43:40
Speaker 1: doing there. You hear that a lot. And I always
43:43
Speaker 1: like to preach fundamentals, learn how to make noises first,
43:46
Speaker 1: and then turn those noises into elk calls, so we're
43:49
Speaker 1: kind of noises um. The one I like, the high
43:52
Speaker 1: pitch noise, is probably the hardest, hardest one to make.
43:56
Speaker 1: You kind of go to it, kind of a mosquito noise.
43:57
Speaker 1: I like to call it. Let me let me throw
43:59
Speaker 1: it all up. Here we go. It's also what you're
44:03
Speaker 1: pulling out of your pocket, So I'm gonna pull out
44:05
Speaker 1: an amp read. This is the Maverick. This is the
44:07
Speaker 1: one I designed with Jason and uh, and I taught
44:11
Speaker 1: my kids how to do to call up with the
44:13
Speaker 1: same concept. So you want to make this high pitch
44:16
Speaker 1: mosquito noise, so that segues into how to calc caoll.
44:25
Speaker 1: So once you kind of figure out how to hit
44:27
Speaker 1: that high pitch mosquito noise, then just roll anything around
44:30
Speaker 1: in your mouth until you can do that. Yeah. And
44:32
Speaker 1: then once you make that mosquito noise, relax your tongue.
44:36
Speaker 1: So I just kind of let your tongue fall away
44:38
Speaker 1: and then you'll start hitting the pitches of a cal call. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
44:49
Speaker 1: dropping your jaw right. I uh struggled with diaphragms. I mean,
44:54
Speaker 1: I'm still like, not at all remotely great, but I
44:57
Speaker 1: struggle with diaphragms for long time and then realize that
45:01
Speaker 1: I had it about a half inch too far forward,
45:05
Speaker 1: And once it occurred to me where it belongs on
45:08
Speaker 1: the roof of your mouth made all the difference. Oh yeah,
45:12
Speaker 1: you're too far back. You'll gag too far forward, it'll
45:15
Speaker 1: make your tongue tickle. Yeah. So when I first started,
45:19
Speaker 1: I'm like, how could anyone ever bear this? The feeling
45:21
Speaker 1: of that? And then then I went like gradually back
45:24
Speaker 1: back back, and then more I went back back back,
45:26
Speaker 1: the more I was like, Oh, this isn't like the
45:27
Speaker 1: worst thing in the world, but it's a great regret
45:30
Speaker 1: of mine not um devote more time to learn how
45:33
Speaker 1: to call. When I was younger, my brother danielays like
45:36
Speaker 1: to call docks whatever, and so it was kind of
45:39
Speaker 1: like as long as someone liked it, they just became
45:41
Speaker 1: like the person that did it, you know, and you
45:43
Speaker 1: went forced to do it. But my guy, I wish
45:45
Speaker 1: like not learn in Spanish and not learning how to
45:47
Speaker 1: call better earlier or too huge missus, because it's frustrating, man,
45:54
Speaker 1: it is. And then I think, you know some people
45:56
Speaker 1: that spend a lot of time not necessarily being great
45:58
Speaker 1: or not doing it the right way, it's tough to
45:59
Speaker 1: like rewind and say, right, the call needs to be
46:01
Speaker 1: placed here, you need to do this. They're just kind
46:03
Speaker 1: of trapped in that, well, this is as good as
46:05
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get, and then they just ride that out
46:08
Speaker 1: that's pretty much where I like, I have a range
46:10
Speaker 1: of noises where I'm like they achieved the results I'm
46:14
Speaker 1: looking for. And I've basically stopped my education there and
46:17
Speaker 1: I need to like keep going. But every year I'm like, yeah,
46:21
Speaker 1: I'll just do this. And that's the beauty of it. Like,
46:26
Speaker 1: you know, guys guys like me and Dirk that can
46:28
Speaker 1: you know, call all the you know, all these sounds
46:30
Speaker 1: and make all these perfect tones. I think, you know,
46:33
Speaker 1: like you just said, you're effective with what you've got.
46:34
Speaker 1: I don't. You don't have to. And that's another thing
46:36
Speaker 1: that rolls right into the beginner. A lot of these
46:38
Speaker 1: guys learned to call or but then they go out
46:40
Speaker 1: in the woods and are super unconfident, like they got
46:42
Speaker 1: a bowl bogle and they're like, I'm not gonna call.
46:44
Speaker 1: I don't want to screw this up where it's I
46:45
Speaker 1: think we've called in some horrible sounding out you know,
46:48
Speaker 1: and it's just be confident and make that sound and
46:50
Speaker 1: see what happens versus new callers just they might play
46:54
Speaker 1: on the calls. They go out there and they're just
46:55
Speaker 1: silent and they they're scared to do anything. My brother
46:58
Speaker 1: and I when we first started calling. He sounded horrible.
47:01
Speaker 1: It sounds like he stepped on a rabbit and then
47:03
Speaker 1: kicked a chiaha or something. It sounded horrible, But he
47:06
Speaker 1: would he would put so much emphasis and so much
47:09
Speaker 1: emotion and into his calls and just piss off the elk.
47:12
Speaker 1: They would just come and I'm like, that sounds terrible,
47:15
Speaker 1: But man, bulls would react and they would come in.
47:17
Speaker 1: I think a lot of guys make the mistake of
47:19
Speaker 1: making that real pretty bugle over and over and over again,
47:22
Speaker 1: but there's no emotion to it. You might hear that
47:24
Speaker 1: sad that guy you know in the woods, it's like
47:27
Speaker 1: over and over again. Yeah, he might get a bold answer,
47:30
Speaker 1: but you don't pass them off. So step out of
47:34
Speaker 1: the box and let her rip, you know, make some
47:37
Speaker 1: tones that are a little off, that's okay, as long
47:39
Speaker 1: as you're putting some emotion into it. We are. It
47:42
Speaker 1: sounds like a bowl that's just making anoise for the
47:44
Speaker 1: sake of making annoyance, which they do versus the ball
47:47
Speaker 1: who's like, hey, this is where I am or where
47:50
Speaker 1: the hell are you? Guys, I'm gonna fight you. Yeah,
47:53
Speaker 1: but you hear some crazy soulence too, though. But we
47:57
Speaker 1: when we're first starting, first started Elkin. We'd sit there
48:00
Speaker 1: all the time and debate, is that a guy or
48:02
Speaker 1: an elk? Is that a guy or an elk? And
48:04
Speaker 1: I remember one time, um, we're hunting the Sapphire range
48:08
Speaker 1: and convinced ourselves that it was a guy because not
48:13
Speaker 1: only was it like you're saying just that like perfect
48:16
Speaker 1: little bugle over and over and over again, but it
48:18
Speaker 1: was coming from up by a road. And we get
48:20
Speaker 1: out there and walk into you know, twenty coles and
48:23
Speaker 1: a big bull standing there, and I'm like, man, how
48:26
Speaker 1: do you know? You say you can always tell right, No,
48:31
Speaker 1: there's there's Yeah. Well I don't want to be so
48:34
Speaker 1: it's like a pride thing. I don't want to be
48:36
Speaker 1: called in by a hunter or somebody to see me
48:38
Speaker 1: and say I called in Feli. So he's been like
48:43
Speaker 1: a lot of times like I'm ready to bail, like
48:44
Speaker 1: last second bail I'm getting And then here comes a
48:47
Speaker 1: bull coming over the ridge and I'm like, I'm glad
48:49
Speaker 1: we stuck it out. Yeah something he's gonna have his
48:52
Speaker 1: phone pointed at you to get on camera. He's using
48:56
Speaker 1: your calls. He's using your calls. You'd be like, oh,
48:58
Speaker 1: that's why I happened. Bro, Yeah, hit him another one,
49:02
Speaker 1: Johnnie Ye. Anyone is solicited these questions. That's right. Thank
49:06
Speaker 1: you for everyone that's uh helped us out and participated. Um.
49:10
Speaker 1: Should we stick with the beginner type stuff while we're here? Um?
49:17
Speaker 1: What is step one? We got a lot of that,
49:20
Speaker 1: Like a lot of beginners just being like where where
49:23
Speaker 1: is step Like give me ground zero? Step one? What's
49:26
Speaker 1: the first thing I need to do? I want to
49:28
Speaker 1: learn how to alcohol? So, uh, you know, we do
49:30
Speaker 1: a lot of marketing. You know, we've got all of
49:32
Speaker 1: our signature calls. I would say, don't jump into those
49:34
Speaker 1: right away, even though I'd love you to buy one
49:36
Speaker 1: of Minor Dirk's personal calls, like start at a at
49:39
Speaker 1: a different level and I don't want to sound like
49:41
Speaker 1: a used car salesman, but get to and because what
49:43
Speaker 1: happens is, you know, there's different latex is, different thicknesses.
49:47
Speaker 1: If you maybe by the gray and don't try the black,
49:50
Speaker 1: you might say, man, I suck at this, but that
49:52
Speaker 1: gray doesn't fit your calling style the way you you
49:54
Speaker 1: know apply pressure. UM. So our recommendation is typically by
49:58
Speaker 1: UM and I'm gonna get pretty specific in our own
50:00
Speaker 1: line of calls here like the black AMP and gray
50:02
Speaker 1: AMP and and this goes for any brand though. Hey, sorry,
50:05
Speaker 1: we've been saying AMPLE a lot, but I don't think
50:06
Speaker 1: anybody knows what AMP is yet. Can you explain? So
50:09
Speaker 1: AMP is is the frame that we we developed. It's
50:11
Speaker 1: you know, it's got a bunch of amplify um aluminum
50:14
Speaker 1: metal plate. There's a bunch of different acronyms we tied
50:16
Speaker 1: all into that AMP UM And so the calls that
50:19
Speaker 1: that are these AMP you know, they've they've got the
50:21
Speaker 1: logo stamped on our calls. UM. But it's just it's
50:24
Speaker 1: basically got a radius hybrid plate that sits over the latex.
50:28
Speaker 1: And what that does is make the call easier to
50:30
Speaker 1: both Calcoll and Biagle. Back when we made the old
50:33
Speaker 1: school flat frames, UM, it was kind of a it
50:36
Speaker 1: was a wonder it was either Calcoll or it was
50:37
Speaker 1: a bowl call and then to make a call it
50:39
Speaker 1: did both. It just wasn't great at anything. So the
50:41
Speaker 1: nice thing about these AMP frames is, UM they're smaller,
50:44
Speaker 1: they fit they fit most people, UM, you know, narrow pallets,
50:48
Speaker 1: high pallets. But it really gives us as a designer,
50:51
Speaker 1: UM or call builders um you know called it. It
50:54
Speaker 1: is good calcoll is a very good bowl call, and
50:56
Speaker 1: you don't really want anything else besides that one call.
50:58
Speaker 1: Once you find the one that fits. That's that's what
51:00
Speaker 1: the amp um. When we refer to AMP, we're just
51:02
Speaker 1: talking about the specific series of diaphragms that we make,
51:05
Speaker 1: and that's what you recommend for any new who's like
51:09
Speaker 1: dying to get started. Yeah, unless you're like the sixties
51:12
Speaker 1: seven year old guys, hause I've been using those quadruple
51:14
Speaker 1: framed calls for the last fifty years. Then we'll maybe
51:16
Speaker 1: send him over into our triple read flat. But if
51:19
Speaker 1: you're a new caller, definitely start with the single reads
51:21
Speaker 1: um in the frame. Just name a call, but name
51:25
Speaker 1: a call. They should buy black AMP and gray so
51:29
Speaker 1: they would go and be like there that is ye
51:31
Speaker 1: and so black amp. This is one of the marketing
51:34
Speaker 1: genius on my part because nobody ever calls the dame
51:36
Speaker 1: calls by their name. They're like, hey, I've got your
51:38
Speaker 1: one call that's was white. I want another one of those.
51:41
Speaker 1: So you're like, oh, you mean the dirty Harry triple
51:45
Speaker 1: purple nerple. Yeah, So it just made sense on on
51:48
Speaker 1: the normal amp line. We just called them by their color.
51:50
Speaker 1: So you got a black that. It just makes my
51:53
Speaker 1: life way easier than happen to try to figure out
51:55
Speaker 1: what color talking about. Yeah, yeah, you'd be like, you know,
51:57
Speaker 1: what do you call it? It's the gray one? Yeah,
51:59
Speaker 1: would be the one? So that so the ant black
52:02
Speaker 1: and ant gray or what we recommend all new colors.
52:04
Speaker 1: Try those, let us know which one you like. That
52:06
Speaker 1: way you don't get stuck by intent calls. It might
52:08
Speaker 1: not work for your three calls. That might not work
52:10
Speaker 1: for you when you if you tell me the ant
52:11
Speaker 1: black is your go to, I'll say, all right, let's
52:13
Speaker 1: get green and orange next time maybe, Or if the
52:16
Speaker 1: black is all you need that That's the other thing
52:17
Speaker 1: we get Hey, man, I really love your great call?
52:19
Speaker 1: What other ones should I try? I like more great calls.
52:22
Speaker 1: It's like there, you don't don't keep like searching for
52:25
Speaker 1: like this. You know the grass isn't always green, or
52:27
Speaker 1: just if it works for you to stay with it.
52:28
Speaker 1: But um. The other thing we get into is like
52:31
Speaker 1: I don't want to oversell everybody, like, well, do you
52:33
Speaker 1: want a veagle Well you might need a veagle tube
52:35
Speaker 1: because our diaphragms need to be blowing through a vehicle tube.
52:38
Speaker 1: And so then you get the questions. And so if
52:40
Speaker 1: you are going to get a bugle tube, if that's
52:41
Speaker 1: your intention is to go out there and locate bowls
52:43
Speaker 1: and call bowls in with vehicle tubes, Um, the larger
52:45
Speaker 1: Unleashed or the Renegade are going to be easier for
52:48
Speaker 1: you to use. Um. We also have a backpacking version,
52:51
Speaker 1: the Unrival. That's a little guy. That thing is sweet.
52:54
Speaker 1: It's a lot nicer, but it's it's not quite as loud,
52:56
Speaker 1: doesn't have quite deeper tones. But the one positive they carry, Yeah,
53:00
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's way less room in your pack
53:02
Speaker 1: and it still gets a job done. But a new
53:04
Speaker 1: color is going to find that the larger tubes easier
53:06
Speaker 1: for them to use. And you can beat a barrel
53:07
Speaker 1: or tohead. Yeah yeah, yeah, you can playin pint coo
53:10
Speaker 1: and baseball and during a lunch break and all kinds
53:12
Speaker 1: of stuff. Hey have you ever? Um, that's good. You
53:16
Speaker 1: could play pine cone baseball with that? Have you guys ever?
53:19
Speaker 1: I know you only sell like five of them. Do
53:21
Speaker 1: you guys ever make moose tubes? We do? Um, it's
53:24
Speaker 1: just a cut off version of our bogle tubes so
53:26
Speaker 1: um every year when the draws come out. Yeah, I
53:28
Speaker 1: can almost tell when the draws come out because somebody
53:30
Speaker 1: will say, hey, will you modify me a tube from
53:32
Speaker 1: moose call, and so we just cut rather than the
53:34
Speaker 1: back pressure on the end of these larger tubes. Will
53:36
Speaker 1: just cut him at that first, so you don't get
53:38
Speaker 1: any back pressure, but you still need to be able
53:40
Speaker 1: to beat brush with it. That's why it's nice to
53:42
Speaker 1: have a pretty heavy duty we yeah, we just cut
53:45
Speaker 1: him at the knuckle, um, and we don't we don't
53:48
Speaker 1: mark at them, but we will make him for people.
53:51
Speaker 1: What makes this Bagle two different than just going and
53:53
Speaker 1: buying a whiffleball bat and cutting the ends off in
53:56
Speaker 1: blowing through you know that whiffball bat. I'm gonna let
53:58
Speaker 1: Dirk go ahead, since so we started out with with
54:02
Speaker 1: whiffle ball bats, right, And like Phelps game calls used
54:06
Speaker 1: to sell, used to buy unbadged fat bats, you know
54:10
Speaker 1: the little kids fat Yeah, I would buy them. I
54:13
Speaker 1: would say, Hey, they had a mold that didn't have
54:14
Speaker 1: the fat bat logo in them, send me those ones,
54:16
Speaker 1: and I would sit and modify fat bats for days
54:19
Speaker 1: in my shop. Heat them up and putting a little lip.
54:22
Speaker 1: I had a big industrial ad that would put like
54:24
Speaker 1: a hole saw on poke the holes in the end,
54:26
Speaker 1: you know, sit there and run them through and cut
54:27
Speaker 1: the ends off, burn them, smooth them over, um modify those.
54:31
Speaker 1: And so when I was told that fat bat was
54:35
Speaker 1: no longer making or that mold was basically done, it
54:37
Speaker 1: was no good anymore. It was kind of a blessing
54:40
Speaker 1: in disguise for me as a company, because I'm like,
54:42
Speaker 1: all right, now, I've gotta go get my own mold made.
54:44
Speaker 1: And at that time, I'm like, let's take everything we
54:46
Speaker 1: we like about the bat and include it, but let's
54:49
Speaker 1: take everything we want to add to it at this
54:51
Speaker 1: point um and added in. So yeah, and the thing
54:55
Speaker 1: is the trouble with those bats, you don't get the
54:58
Speaker 1: right back pressure, and back pressure equals like good note articulation.
55:02
Speaker 1: So if you struggle hitting those high notes when you're
55:04
Speaker 1: bugling um and you know, getting those like hit that
55:07
Speaker 1: staircase of notes, uh, you would struggle with one of
55:10
Speaker 1: those old bats. But with these new engineered um bugle tubes.
55:16
Speaker 1: Jason went through a lot of trial and error with
55:19
Speaker 1: what's that computer program that you did I'm a I'm
55:23
Speaker 1: a nerd. I'm gonna let everbody know I'm a nerd.
55:24
Speaker 1: So I went and got charts over like you know,
55:27
Speaker 1: mail mail long capacity at different ages. And so there's
55:30
Speaker 1: a there's a program. I'm gonna let all my competitors
55:32
Speaker 1: if if they're listening, we don't have to. There's a
55:34
Speaker 1: there's a program called solid works, which is basically a
55:37
Speaker 1: mechanical engineering program. I could build this bat, say let's
55:41
Speaker 1: send a thirty year old males volume to this What
55:43
Speaker 1: back pressure do we get? You know, based on the
55:45
Speaker 1: inside hole. And so I could sit here as a
55:47
Speaker 1: nerd and say, all right, we want to change the shape.
55:49
Speaker 1: And I added corrugations because we didn't want all that
55:51
Speaker 1: air just flowing down the sides of that tube. So
55:54
Speaker 1: you can feel that we added corregations. We wanted to
55:56
Speaker 1: disrupt that air and get some reaver back in the tube.
55:59
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuf if we did that
56:00
Speaker 1: was based on something, you know, explain the back pressure
56:03
Speaker 1: just a little bit more. So, Let's say you see
56:06
Speaker 1: how big this tube is. For everybody that can't see,
56:08
Speaker 1: we have a four inch diameter, big, big tube. It
56:11
Speaker 1: looks like a kid's who football back. Yeah, I could
56:13
Speaker 1: knock your honest out, Yeah, twenty four in long whiffleball,
56:16
Speaker 1: no problem. Or you can take let's say, like a
56:18
Speaker 1: one inch piece of PVC. Like just fundamentally you're thinking like, well,
56:21
Speaker 1: that one inch PVC doesn't take near as much air,
56:24
Speaker 1: right because it's so so much smaller. But the way
56:26
Speaker 1: that works is it actually takes more air to run
56:29
Speaker 1: a diaphragm through that one inch PBC because your air
56:31
Speaker 1: is just straight flowing through it. Whereas when you fill
56:34
Speaker 1: this I kind of imagine you fill this tube up
56:36
Speaker 1: with that initial amount of air and then the cup
56:38
Speaker 1: at the end actually kind of just backs the air
56:41
Speaker 1: down the tube, down the tube all the way to
56:43
Speaker 1: where your diaphragms at, and so you can kind of
56:45
Speaker 1: relax a little bit. You don't have to just run,
56:47
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred percent max air through that too,
56:50
Speaker 1: because the way we've cut the end and designed that
56:52
Speaker 1: whole size, it kind of lets you relax in there.
56:54
Speaker 1: Like fifty I'm just gonna throw crazy numbers out the
56:58
Speaker 1: um air, so saying you're still getting the same volume
57:01
Speaker 1: and energy, you're just using that tube to basically assist
57:04
Speaker 1: you on running that diaphragm. Rip a couple of big bugles.
57:07
Speaker 1: You guys, what's really crazy? Like if it's called out
57:11
Speaker 1: and you're out, you just rip one big old bugle
57:13
Speaker 1: and you just slight. As soon as you just slightly
57:15
Speaker 1: take your tube away from your lips, you can feel
57:17
Speaker 1: air come rush back onto your lips a little bit.
57:20
Speaker 1: You can feel that backflow, that back pressure flow onto
57:22
Speaker 1: your lips. It's weird interesting. So I'll rip one first. Sorry, Jason, Yeah,
57:27
Speaker 1: just oh you got your own? Who is this? That's fine,
57:33
Speaker 1: you can use it. I guess you're fired up. Gives
57:44
Speaker 1: me a little run. You're picking that up? Phil? Oh, yeah,
58:00
Speaker 1: behind your little curtain over there. Pretty much of everybody listening.
58:06
Speaker 1: That was a blue call and a red call. So
58:09
Speaker 1: if you want to sound like that, you gotta buy
58:11
Speaker 1: the blue call. This was like a batch I just
58:14
Speaker 1: made for the World Calling Championship. Scratch scratch at Kyl said,
58:18
Speaker 1: I was blown on a pink call. What we just
58:23
Speaker 1: got back last weekend from the World Out Calling Championships
58:25
Speaker 1: in Park City, Utah? So what goes on at that? So?
58:29
Speaker 1: I noticed someone asked about that. You see how good
58:30
Speaker 1: hosting that was? Honest? I was gonna mention it. You're
58:34
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna point out the hosting skills. Uh yeah,
58:36
Speaker 1: what goes out to the world alcohol get up on
58:39
Speaker 1: stage and called the seven judges behind the screen like
58:42
Speaker 1: Phil is right now? Yeah, yeah, Phil wouldn't know, so
58:45
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have known who Dirk or I was right there,
58:47
Speaker 1: and he would he would try to tell you who
58:49
Speaker 1: he thought was better, the first caller calling him so,
58:54
Speaker 1: and you guys are competing, Yeah, we were not judging.
58:57
Speaker 1: But Dirk, Dirk absolutely hates the fact, and he doesn't
59:00
Speaker 1: want me to ever reference it. But you're six time
59:03
Speaker 1: world champion. I don't know. He hates he hates that fact.
59:06
Speaker 1: He hates to use it for anything because you don't
59:07
Speaker 1: you don't like sound like a blow hard. He'd rather
59:09
Speaker 1: like take pictures in September behind the dead bull is
59:12
Speaker 1: his his prize. But but you okay, so yeah, I've
59:16
Speaker 1: won it several times in the men's division, right, the
59:20
Speaker 1: men's four years ago, Damien had all the call offs
59:28
Speaker 1: three ago, four years ago, four years ago, I won
59:31
Speaker 1: first yea And where do you win when you win
59:33
Speaker 1: cash prizes and then you win a bunch of cool
59:35
Speaker 1: crap you know, rifle scopes and bows and rifles and
59:40
Speaker 1: just depends on the package they put together for the year.
59:42
Speaker 1: But I've won rifles before, and um, we can't want to.
59:46
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever wont to bow. But how
59:48
Speaker 1: many times did you win the World Championship? Like six times? Seriously? Yeah,
59:54
Speaker 1: but I lost a lot more more times than I've
59:56
Speaker 1: ever won it. I mean I've started competing in nineties six,
59:59
Speaker 1: I think, are you feeling me in forty five? I
1:00:04
Speaker 1: hate it? Yeah, I got a weird Uh, I got
1:00:08
Speaker 1: weird aches and pains. Yeah. One War one is right
1:00:12
Speaker 1: now and there. I would never have to a guy
1:00:16
Speaker 1: like Seth. Huh, Like it's like a something weird pinch
1:00:21
Speaker 1: nerve in there because I'm doing the armstrong pull up regimen.
1:00:25
Speaker 1: It's getting painful. Are you Are you keeping up with
1:00:28
Speaker 1: the pushups? I haven't doing that part of it. I
1:00:33
Speaker 1: gotta barn my house and I hung two at work.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: I hit that one up upstairs yesterday. You know, sure
1:00:40
Speaker 1: the production team really likes your placement. Oh, is there
1:00:43
Speaker 1: a problem with the placement? No? You know one of
1:00:46
Speaker 1: our colleagues thought that me and Seth hung it up
1:00:47
Speaker 1: to hang beavers. From which I'm like, what the hell
1:00:49
Speaker 1: kind of beavers you think we're I think it's a
1:00:53
Speaker 1: fair question. Yeah, we've been flashing beaver hides in the
1:00:58
Speaker 1: morning a little bit. We've got a few of them done. Yeah,
1:01:00
Speaker 1: someone thoughtles for beaver hanging, like how the people gonna
1:01:02
Speaker 1: get through here when you hang beavers from that? It's
1:01:05
Speaker 1: just a pull up bar. But yeah, I don't know. Man,
1:01:08
Speaker 1: So you'd like being forty five, you think it's it's hard.
1:01:11
Speaker 1: It sucks, you know, you just just you can't build
1:01:14
Speaker 1: muscle mass like you could before. It's hard to get
1:01:16
Speaker 1: back into shape. I mean a guys should probably stay
1:01:18
Speaker 1: in shape year around, but rounds of shape too, and
1:01:21
Speaker 1: I kind of tend to go that way in the wintertime.
1:01:24
Speaker 1: But h man, I wish I knew back when I
1:01:28
Speaker 1: was in my twenties what I know now and have,
1:01:30
Speaker 1: like the gear, the quality calls and the gear and
1:01:32
Speaker 1: stuff that had back when I was twenty. I wish
1:01:35
Speaker 1: I had him back then. Man Idaho had tons of
1:01:39
Speaker 1: beautiful elk back then, not not not so much anymore.
1:01:42
Speaker 1: It would have been it would have been awesome, but hindsight,
1:01:46
Speaker 1: so I'll tell my brother the other day man. I
1:01:49
Speaker 1: was like, dude, we live through the good old days. Man. Yeah,
1:01:52
Speaker 1: it's crazy because I get older every year and it
1:01:55
Speaker 1: seems like the hunts I go on are harder and
1:01:58
Speaker 1: harder every year. Like not just because my age, but
1:02:01
Speaker 1: we were going to like some nasty, nasty places before
1:02:04
Speaker 1: we kill elk in a lot easier places, and now
1:02:07
Speaker 1: it's just like to to get them consistently. We're going
1:02:10
Speaker 1: to some stupid places. And I'm like, I thought when
1:02:14
Speaker 1: you got old, you kind of got to go back
1:02:16
Speaker 1: to the easy stuff again. And I'm like, when is
1:02:18
Speaker 1: that going to happen? So, yeah, well I think a
1:02:20
Speaker 1: lot of guys get old and with age comes like
1:02:23
Speaker 1: you get become more financially secure, and so you just
1:02:26
Speaker 1: start hunting private land. I don't think I can do that,
1:02:29
Speaker 1: which just I mean, it's a thing that happens, right
1:02:32
Speaker 1: because you're like, you know, we'd be like, I think
1:02:35
Speaker 1: nothing that we'd walk nine miles and carry a cow
1:02:38
Speaker 1: out right, you know, and you don't like you don't
1:02:41
Speaker 1: run into a lot of seven year old dudes doing that. Now.
1:02:45
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm trying to figure out how much
1:02:46
Speaker 1: longer I mean I got I'm playing on having a
1:02:48
Speaker 1: lot more left in me. But if I live, if
1:02:52
Speaker 1: I live all the years I've been alive over again,
1:02:54
Speaker 1: I'll be dead, right, Yeah, and that I don't like
1:03:00
Speaker 1: the feeling. Yeah, I got a buddy. His dad's pushing seventy,
1:03:05
Speaker 1: so he'd be a hundred forty. Yeah. He's a tough
1:03:08
Speaker 1: old bird. I mean, that guy hunts some nasty Idaho
1:03:11
Speaker 1: back country, very few elk, lots of wolves, you know,
1:03:15
Speaker 1: and they consistently killed bowls, you know. But he's just
1:03:18
Speaker 1: a tough old guy. And he's had any surgeries and
1:03:20
Speaker 1: back surgeries and everything, but he just he's just like,
1:03:24
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this until I can't possibly walk up
1:03:27
Speaker 1: the trail anymore. When I meet if I meet a guy,
1:03:29
Speaker 1: like when I meet an older feller and he can
1:03:31
Speaker 1: form a pretty good sentence and still does a lot
1:03:33
Speaker 1: of hunting, and was like, how old you? And if
1:03:36
Speaker 1: he says like sixty five, like sweet year, twenty more years?
1:03:43
Speaker 1: You know how old you? Now? Seth, I'm gonna in August,
1:03:48
Speaker 1: My goodness, I'm oldost to be your daddy. Not quite.
1:03:54
Speaker 1: It's sure, yeah, like physiologically sure it is possible, but
1:04:03
Speaker 1: in our generation, not well that's not true. I guess
1:04:07
Speaker 1: there were a few dudes that made babies that early,
1:04:09
Speaker 1: but not most people were. I mean, but I remember
1:04:13
Speaker 1: by the time I finished high school. Remember four girls
1:04:15
Speaker 1: would when I was finishing high school, there were four
1:04:18
Speaker 1: girls that would their moms that bring their babies down
1:04:22
Speaker 1: to show them off at the end of school, at
1:04:24
Speaker 1: the end of the school day. Yeah, there's a lot
1:04:29
Speaker 1: of the attrition too from drinking and driving. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
1:04:41
Speaker 1: I think that's changed a little bit too now, I
1:04:43
Speaker 1: mean within your high school. This has nothing to do
1:04:45
Speaker 1: with kids from high school getting killed off from drinking,
1:04:48
Speaker 1: from just vehicle accidents, drinking and driving whatnot. Anyhow, what's
1:04:52
Speaker 1: the next one you got? Johnnie? Were straight a little bit.
1:04:55
Speaker 1: Let's get into some tactics. Let's there's anything else you
1:04:58
Speaker 1: guys want to say about the the immediately quickly transit.
1:05:03
Speaker 1: You touched on birth, new life, just briefly before you
1:05:07
Speaker 1: got into just death. That's called premier hosting. I don't
1:05:14
Speaker 1: want to leave everyone on a negative note. I talk
1:05:17
Speaker 1: about young people having babies. Jason, can you overcall an elk?
1:05:22
Speaker 1: And how do you know if you've done it? That's
1:05:25
Speaker 1: a good one. Everybody says, don't call it too much.
1:05:29
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna break I'm gonna break this down in
1:05:31
Speaker 1: two segments, like location. I don't think you can overlocate
1:05:33
Speaker 1: like the things you're either going to answer you or
1:05:35
Speaker 1: it's not like I can locate through another locator, like
1:05:37
Speaker 1: they're elk down there, down there. I think when you
1:05:39
Speaker 1: move in close and you know, you get set up
1:05:41
Speaker 1: and try to call this bull, and I think you
1:05:43
Speaker 1: can overcall um. You know, sometimes they're you know, playing
1:05:46
Speaker 1: the game. They're wanting you to respond, or they're wanting
1:05:48
Speaker 1: to respond, or they're moving in close, and that bull
1:05:50
Speaker 1: I think silent sometimes is your best key. You let
1:05:52
Speaker 1: him know I'm within a hundred yards of you, and
1:05:54
Speaker 1: that thing gets, you know, somewhat curious to come find you.
1:05:56
Speaker 1: Versus if you keep hammering or to keep calling, you're
1:05:58
Speaker 1: gonna that bull is just gonna potentially take his cows
1:06:00
Speaker 1: and go away. What do you think he's thinking when
1:06:02
Speaker 1: you overcall? Is he thinking that's a mug or is
1:06:04
Speaker 1: he thinking that this is some crazy elk that I
1:06:06
Speaker 1: don't feel like dealing with. I think he just doesn't
1:06:11
Speaker 1: want to lose his cows, This crazy bull that's down
1:06:13
Speaker 1: there calling. I think that's more of his you know,
1:06:15
Speaker 1: he's he's gonna grab his cows and try to get
1:06:17
Speaker 1: out of here. If you're just gonna sit in that
1:06:18
Speaker 1: one spot, um, you know, something out of the out
1:06:21
Speaker 1: of the box stuff. I know you hunt out of
1:06:22
Speaker 1: the box as well, Derek sometimes, but you like just
1:06:24
Speaker 1: bueling as you walk towards the bull. Yeah, you risk
1:06:26
Speaker 1: me out of the box. So not just I mean
1:06:29
Speaker 1: we do all these seminars and stuff like, oh, you
1:06:30
Speaker 1: set up seven yards away, so I'm just I'm just
1:06:34
Speaker 1: gonna be biggle and keep walking at you, you know,
1:06:36
Speaker 1: and some of this stuff and that bowls like, well,
1:06:38
Speaker 1: now he's coming, I'm gonna have to go deal with him.
1:06:39
Speaker 1: Versus if I sat at a hundred twenty yards biggle
1:06:41
Speaker 1: bigle bagles, he's like, well, I'm just gonna grab my
1:06:43
Speaker 1: cows and get out of here. That thinks not coming
1:06:44
Speaker 1: any closer. Versus, if you were to bagle that same
1:06:48
Speaker 1: amount but start walking towards him, it could be a
1:06:50
Speaker 1: completely different situation because now he has no other chance
1:06:53
Speaker 1: choice but to deal with you. Um. So yeah, I
1:06:55
Speaker 1: think you can definitely overcall elk Um. Typically I think
1:06:59
Speaker 1: at the point I know what were called elk is
1:07:01
Speaker 1: when his next bugles hundred fifty yards and then he's
1:07:03
Speaker 1: two hundred yards and um, you know, typically then we'll
1:07:05
Speaker 1: have to reset up, move closer, and then try to
1:07:08
Speaker 1: do it again. Do you when you're calling to an
1:07:10
Speaker 1: elk and all of a sudden he splits, do you
1:07:14
Speaker 1: feel it as possible to say he splits because he
1:07:17
Speaker 1: still thinks I'm an elk, but he's grabbing his cows
1:07:19
Speaker 1: and going, Or he splits because he's just suspicious. No,
1:07:24
Speaker 1: I think I think you um could definitely stay with him.
1:07:28
Speaker 1: He just doesn't want to lose his cows. So there's
1:07:30
Speaker 1: been many times where we've called bulls and on the fourth, fifth,
1:07:32
Speaker 1: sixth set up where we're just kind of shadowing him,
1:07:34
Speaker 1: trying to get closer and closer and push his buttons,
1:07:37
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden he's like, Okay, now I'll
1:07:39
Speaker 1: finally turn. Yeah. I feel like sometimes too, he'll get
1:07:42
Speaker 1: those stalemates and those bulls will want you to show yourself.
1:07:46
Speaker 1: They're like, all right, I've came all this far, It's
1:07:48
Speaker 1: time for you to come my way a bit. Because
1:07:52
Speaker 1: he doesn't when he doesn't want to get shot and killed. Well,
1:07:55
Speaker 1: if he believe in the calls, though, he thinks you're
1:07:57
Speaker 1: a bull and if and if you watch a lot
1:07:58
Speaker 1: of elk behavior, they kind of they kind of like
1:08:00
Speaker 1: to check each other out a little bit. Maybe kind
1:08:02
Speaker 1: of they do that little walk thing by each other
1:08:04
Speaker 1: and kind of show each other off. And it's like,
1:08:05
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want a fighter. I do,
1:08:07
Speaker 1: And then they decide to fight, and I think, um,
1:08:11
Speaker 1: they want that leap of faith. It's like, all right,
1:08:13
Speaker 1: I've came this far. You gotta give me something, show
1:08:16
Speaker 1: yourself or come closer. Um. And sometimes if if you
1:08:21
Speaker 1: don't show yourself and you've had a stalemate, let's say
1:08:23
Speaker 1: that bulls fifty yards, you can't see him in this
1:08:25
Speaker 1: kind of thick timber or something, and then they sometimes
1:08:27
Speaker 1: just kind of move off. I think he thinks you're
1:08:30
Speaker 1: a coward at that points, like you talk pretty tough,
1:08:32
Speaker 1: but you never really showed yourself. So usually if they're
1:08:35
Speaker 1: trying to leave, I'm running at him. I'm taking off
1:08:38
Speaker 1: after him. I rip a big nasty challenge bogle, and
1:08:41
Speaker 1: I'm I'm running towards them to say, hey, where the
1:08:44
Speaker 1: heck you going? Man? Come back. I want to fight,
1:08:47
Speaker 1: and I've done this a lot, and that's like, that's
1:08:52
Speaker 1: like having a really good understanding of his temperament. Man, Yeah,
1:08:56
Speaker 1: it's cool. I kind of go all in on onto
1:08:58
Speaker 1: those deals. It's like every time might play play the
1:09:01
Speaker 1: the Elk game, you know, back and forth, biggling with
1:09:03
Speaker 1: this bowl, It's like, I'm going all in this is
1:09:06
Speaker 1: this is a one shot deal. I'm probably not going
1:09:08
Speaker 1: to come back to him and it come you know,
1:09:09
Speaker 1: just kind of tiptoe around the edges and then maybe
1:09:13
Speaker 1: have something happen and if it don't work I'll come
1:09:15
Speaker 1: back in a day or two and try him again.
1:09:17
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna go in there, and because what do
1:09:19
Speaker 1: we elk do? They Usually they go back and forth,
1:09:21
Speaker 1: they come together, they fight, they figure it out, and
1:09:24
Speaker 1: then they go their separate way. So I'm gonna go
1:09:26
Speaker 1: up there, get get in his face and try to
1:09:29
Speaker 1: push him, trying to make him mad, appeal to his anger,
1:09:31
Speaker 1: make him make a mistake where he finally just says,
1:09:33
Speaker 1: heck with, I'm so mad at you. I'm not gonna
1:09:35
Speaker 1: pay attention to wind. I'm just gonna come in a
1:09:37
Speaker 1: straight line to come right to you. So well, I
1:09:40
Speaker 1: guess he's I'm trying to ask. I'm not asking it clearly.
1:09:44
Speaker 1: I like a thing that's rolling around in my head though,
1:09:49
Speaker 1: is spooking him meaning revealing to him that you are
1:09:52
Speaker 1: not in fact and elk? Yeah? Yeah, how much? By calling?
1:09:57
Speaker 1: By calling, by running at him, by potentially And so
1:10:00
Speaker 1: it's like, I think that that one of the ways
1:10:03
Speaker 1: it prevents people from getting super aggressive or running after
1:10:07
Speaker 1: an ELK or doing these different things is because you're
1:10:09
Speaker 1: not trying to reveal your hand. So is that obviously
1:10:13
Speaker 1: that's floating around in the back of your head too, right, Yeah,
1:10:15
Speaker 1: it's like the last ditch offer. I always believe in
1:10:18
Speaker 1: my calling all the way to to the end. He's
1:10:20
Speaker 1: never gonna spook away from the calling, but he's spook
1:10:23
Speaker 1: away if he sees me. So you don't think that, Like,
1:10:26
Speaker 1: if you're a passible caller, you think that even if
1:10:29
Speaker 1: he leaves and it takes off, you don't you don't
1:10:32
Speaker 1: think that that elk, that that bowl is like, I
1:10:34
Speaker 1: don't buy it. I think that's a person because he's
1:10:38
Speaker 1: doing weird stuff. Maybe if you're hunting in an area
1:10:40
Speaker 1: where there's he's had a lot of human contact where
1:10:42
Speaker 1: he's been messed with before, maybe spooked around, but sended
1:10:46
Speaker 1: some guy after he's been bugling. I always wonder do
1:10:48
Speaker 1: they even know, Like I'm over here bugling and then
1:10:51
Speaker 1: let's say the wind changes and he sends me and
1:10:53
Speaker 1: takes off. Does he think that's a dude over there
1:10:56
Speaker 1: buglan or is that an elk? And then some guy
1:10:59
Speaker 1: snuck up here and I smelled a human. I mean,
1:11:02
Speaker 1: I don't always wonder what he's gotten going on in
1:11:05
Speaker 1: his head. We were one time bear hunting and we
1:11:07
Speaker 1: hung our food up in a tree, and we came
1:11:11
Speaker 1: back and there was a pine squirrel eating a block
1:11:14
Speaker 1: of cheddar, and then we ran after it, screaming to
1:11:18
Speaker 1: get our cheddar back. And I always wondered if he
1:11:20
Speaker 1: thought this is the weirdest day he'd ever experienced, like
1:11:23
Speaker 1: one that you found a block of chatter and then
1:11:26
Speaker 1: to some dudes showed up, or if he put together
1:11:28
Speaker 1: like that was your cheddar, that I found these guys
1:11:31
Speaker 1: chatter and they showed up, like when he recounts that
1:11:34
Speaker 1: to his friends, Or maybe he thought he like a
1:11:37
Speaker 1: man when it rains it storms, because then he thought
1:11:40
Speaker 1: you wanted to steal his cheddar. Oh yeah, he's like,
1:11:42
Speaker 1: you know, strange thing. I found some cheddar and then
1:11:44
Speaker 1: some people can even stole my cheddar. Yeah. I never
1:11:49
Speaker 1: thought that's a good point. The elks, Like, no, there
1:11:50
Speaker 1: was a elk he was bugling, but then some guy
1:11:53
Speaker 1: showed up and I ran off right, which there's been
1:11:57
Speaker 1: times where they've winded me or us, and in a
1:12:03
Speaker 1: little while later we kind of took back in with
1:12:06
Speaker 1: our bugling match, you know, back and forth. And I
1:12:09
Speaker 1: don't know if that elk was just super dumb and
1:12:12
Speaker 1: not used to smelling people, or if he actually thought, well,
1:12:15
Speaker 1: that's that bowl and that dude's probably gone now. I
1:12:18
Speaker 1: don't know. But most of the time, when they smell you,
1:12:20
Speaker 1: it's it's a game over. It's it's over. But there's
1:12:22
Speaker 1: been a couple of times it's like, wow, why did
1:12:25
Speaker 1: this work this time? I mean, if you spooking elk,
1:12:28
Speaker 1: how long do you wait? Like let's say you knew
1:12:30
Speaker 1: you got a elk in a basin and he's kind
1:12:32
Speaker 1: of hanging around there, and you're going and you bump
1:12:33
Speaker 1: them because you blow them out, and then all of
1:12:36
Speaker 1: a sudden, the next day he's bugling back in there again.
1:12:38
Speaker 1: Are you Like, Man, I'm gonna wait three days until
1:12:39
Speaker 1: he totally forgets. I'll give him a couple of days.
1:12:43
Speaker 1: I'm going that next day public Land. Man, it's tough
1:12:46
Speaker 1: because you don't have it to yourself. But I've done that,
1:12:49
Speaker 1: waited the two or three days and have some other
1:12:51
Speaker 1: guy walking there and kill him. So maybe you should
1:12:55
Speaker 1: go in the next day. So you know, there's all
1:12:58
Speaker 1: these areas, right, it's like, oh, yeah, you can't bugle
1:13:03
Speaker 1: like you will not you can't call elk here right.
1:13:06
Speaker 1: Growing up in Montana, Missouri, Breakes is like, oh, lots
1:13:09
Speaker 1: of bulls in the brakes, big bulls, but you can't
1:13:11
Speaker 1: call elk. And then going down and working in New Mexico,
1:13:17
Speaker 1: same deal, like, oh yeah, you just can't call these
1:13:20
Speaker 1: bulls in you know they're educated. In Arizona too, it's like, oh,
1:13:23
Speaker 1: you can't call in big bulls because you're saying because
1:13:26
Speaker 1: they're educated. My impression was always like I cannot call
1:13:33
Speaker 1: in a bowl, which means nobody else can call me
1:13:38
Speaker 1: like they hear because you hear that too, Like they
1:13:39
Speaker 1: hear a call and they go the other direction, yes, exactly,
1:13:42
Speaker 1: or these bulls know each other so well. That any
1:13:45
Speaker 1: new bugle is just like an alarm. I don't buy it. Yeah,
1:13:50
Speaker 1: I've talked to some guy, you know, even the even
1:13:52
Speaker 1: the you know, the big outfitters and stuff. Oh you
1:13:55
Speaker 1: can only cal called our bulls down here in Arizona
1:13:57
Speaker 1: and stuff. And I've talked to some new buddies, like
1:13:59
Speaker 1: I would love to see you guys come down here
1:14:01
Speaker 1: and hunt your style. Like everybody tells you guys you can't.
1:14:03
Speaker 1: But He's like, you guys would come down here and
1:14:05
Speaker 1: run through this place and have a good time. I
1:14:08
Speaker 1: just want, I just want the challenge of you know,
1:14:09
Speaker 1: going to I want to New Mexico and the same thing.
1:14:12
Speaker 1: You can't call these bulls. They come to water, they
1:14:13
Speaker 1: go bed, that's their life. And we had I mean
1:14:16
Speaker 1: we called in, you know, two or three bulls every morning,
1:14:19
Speaker 1: you know, bulls every night. It was just incredible. And
1:14:21
Speaker 1: I don't believe any of that stuff. Um, I just
1:14:24
Speaker 1: I don't. I think those guys just hunt different, like
1:14:26
Speaker 1: it's a different different mindset or people here it and
1:14:28
Speaker 1: they get down there and get scared to do it
1:14:30
Speaker 1: they would do up here, And I just want to
1:14:32
Speaker 1: go down there and rip out him. And it worked
1:14:34
Speaker 1: in New Mexico where I hunted. I got a buddy
1:14:36
Speaker 1: that he was told, oh, yeah, you can't bugle bulls
1:14:39
Speaker 1: in Arizona, and that he's had two Arizona tags and
1:14:41
Speaker 1: both times he said, we we called bulls in all
1:14:44
Speaker 1: day long, every day. They were just they come screaming
1:14:47
Speaker 1: in like nowhere else. I don't know what people are thinking.
1:14:50
Speaker 1: So part of the head game no different than fishing.
1:14:53
Speaker 1: I think, you know, calling out in really open country though,
1:14:57
Speaker 1: is difficult. You know, it's more of a you gotta
1:14:59
Speaker 1: be a lot, use a lot of strategy before you
1:15:01
Speaker 1: can't just go I can see help three hundred yards
1:15:03
Speaker 1: will and blow your bugle and they're probably not gonna
1:15:05
Speaker 1: just come running to you. I mean because because they
1:15:07
Speaker 1: want to see it, they want that visual. Yeah, yeah,
1:15:11
Speaker 1: I think you need to get in tight, use some
1:15:13
Speaker 1: terrain features, be like you know, shadow the herd, use
1:15:15
Speaker 1: some train features to where you get close like they're
1:15:18
Speaker 1: just on the back side of a little ridge or
1:15:20
Speaker 1: a coolie or something. And then you do some calls
1:15:23
Speaker 1: and then wait for them to have to come up
1:15:25
Speaker 1: to investigate, and then be possession to where you can
1:15:27
Speaker 1: make that shot. But you just can't bugle from three
1:15:29
Speaker 1: hundred yards away. That's like calling too much. You're standing
1:15:33
Speaker 1: at a burn bull stand over their bugle at you,
1:15:35
Speaker 1: and you're kind of pinned down. You don't you can't
1:15:38
Speaker 1: just continue making calls because they're looking. They might not
1:15:42
Speaker 1: see you, but like, there's no welk over here. They
1:15:44
Speaker 1: know exactly where you're at. I'm gonna bugle a couple
1:15:47
Speaker 1: more times and see if there's any elk there, But
1:15:50
Speaker 1: then they're like, there's nothing there, and then they then
1:15:52
Speaker 1: they kind of take off and then they make It
1:15:54
Speaker 1: makes them pretty tough to call at that point because
1:15:57
Speaker 1: then they're just suspicious. Yeah, they're just like and I
1:16:00
Speaker 1: don't I don't buy that. I like that what you're
1:16:02
Speaker 1: saying about getting in their zone, you know. Um, what
1:16:06
Speaker 1: I always like about it. And this same thing with
1:16:09
Speaker 1: turkeys or whatever is uh, when it's far away, it's
1:16:12
Speaker 1: like you don't really know what their response is. But
1:16:14
Speaker 1: the when you get close to something and called to it,
1:16:16
Speaker 1: you kind of quickly like find out this is a
1:16:20
Speaker 1: this is this a thing or not? You know what
1:16:22
Speaker 1: I mean? It always feels good. We're hunting in Kentucky
1:16:25
Speaker 1: and had an elk tag in Kentucky. And yeah, we're
1:16:28
Speaker 1: just saying eating lunch, weren't we And you're honest, ripped
1:16:30
Speaker 1: a bugle and I mean this bullet walked up because
1:16:34
Speaker 1: he couldn't have taken three steps. But it was like
1:16:36
Speaker 1: we're just having a bugle right on top of him,
1:16:38
Speaker 1: like up out of his bed. Oh right right right,
1:16:41
Speaker 1: come ore with check us out. Because he's like, dude,
1:16:43
Speaker 1: that think is right on top of me. Man, you know,
1:16:44
Speaker 1: and he like had to deal with it. You know,
1:16:47
Speaker 1: you had to pay attention to it. And that's that's
1:16:49
Speaker 1: I mean, at least our strategy hunting with Dirk. You know,
1:16:51
Speaker 1: we're just we're trying to create that threat. Get sixty
1:16:54
Speaker 1: seven yards. Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're calling that bulling.
1:16:56
Speaker 1: You know, it's not as cool to call him in
1:16:58
Speaker 1: from a mile away. But um, part of our strategies
1:17:01
Speaker 1: to get like in their lap and forced them to
1:17:03
Speaker 1: come deal with us. Um, they're pretty territorial. You know,
1:17:07
Speaker 1: let's say they don't have cows. There's that transition phase
1:17:10
Speaker 1: of the route where the bulls haven't left their little
1:17:13
Speaker 1: little bull bedrooms throughout the drainage. They've got their little
1:17:16
Speaker 1: their little home and you go from the top of
1:17:20
Speaker 1: the drainage. They won't answer. You get down in, you
1:17:22
Speaker 1: start dissecting that drainage. You go start hiking and through
1:17:25
Speaker 1: the bedroom betting areas of those things. You get within
1:17:28
Speaker 1: a hundred two hundred yards of them, you'll get a
1:17:30
Speaker 1: reply and they're not happy that you're there. It's like,
1:17:33
Speaker 1: hey man, this is my spot. And a lot of times, um,
1:17:36
Speaker 1: they'll get pretty aggressive and come in after just a
1:17:39
Speaker 1: little bit of calling. But the consequence of hunting a
1:17:42
Speaker 1: betting area, you screwed up. They're they're gone. So I
1:17:46
Speaker 1: think what everybody wants to know is what works one
1:17:49
Speaker 1: percent of the time. Oh no, he told it. I
1:17:54
Speaker 1: put this to him before kind of and uh. He
1:17:58
Speaker 1: described the situation in a He described a situation which
1:18:01
Speaker 1: he would be surprised to not be able to move
1:18:04
Speaker 1: that bull in his direction. You did say it works.
1:18:09
Speaker 1: That was that was more of your like a scenario. Yeah,
1:18:12
Speaker 1: it was like, it wasn't your mature herd bowls. It
1:18:14
Speaker 1: was a semimature satellite bowl that's off by his own
1:18:17
Speaker 1: feeding by himself during the middle of the Yet I
1:18:19
Speaker 1: would be sure I call that bolling. Yeah, I like
1:18:24
Speaker 1: that if I can find him if I can find
1:18:27
Speaker 1: him feeding on a pretty grass slope all by himself
1:18:30
Speaker 1: during the middle of the right when we let him
1:18:31
Speaker 1: pick he could be above it, below it, what it
1:18:33
Speaker 1: was doing, who it was with the whole situation. And
1:18:35
Speaker 1: he was saying that he yeah, he was. I could
1:18:37
Speaker 1: move that bowl. If I could find that unicorn, I'll
1:18:40
Speaker 1: bet on myself. But when Dirk was like, well, you know,
1:18:44
Speaker 1: you're just not going to make like these big, clear,
1:18:46
Speaker 1: articulate sounds, and I was thinking to myself, well, that's
1:18:49
Speaker 1: not the ball I'm looking for. Somebody is much less articulate,
1:18:54
Speaker 1: like quite know what's going on. Um, you guys sound
1:19:01
Speaker 1: like your bugle a lot more than your cal call,
1:19:03
Speaker 1: because Derek, you sound like every call you've made so
1:19:06
Speaker 1: far describing these scenarios is all bugle, and speak to
1:19:09
Speaker 1: that a little. But so I wanna I wanna appeal
1:19:11
Speaker 1: to that bulls uh instincts to fight rather than to breed,
1:19:16
Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, And there's a hundred different
1:19:18
Speaker 1: ways to skin a cat. And there's probably guys that
1:19:21
Speaker 1: have cow called in twice as many elk and kill
1:19:23
Speaker 1: twice as many elk. Is me just with cal calls.
1:19:26
Speaker 1: But my experience was just cal calling in ELK. A
1:19:29
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll come in very meticulous, very slow,
1:19:32
Speaker 1: very cautiously. They'll come in down wind, you know that.
1:19:36
Speaker 1: I think the number one they're looking for a maybe
1:19:39
Speaker 1: to see if check to see if that cow is
1:19:40
Speaker 1: even in heat. They want to hear, they want to
1:19:43
Speaker 1: smell her, and then they want to see if there's
1:19:45
Speaker 1: another bull there. Maybe there's another bowl just kind of
1:19:47
Speaker 1: laying low, and he doesn't want to just come up
1:19:48
Speaker 1: there and then hey maybe and then yeah, to get
1:19:52
Speaker 1: his ass kicked on the deal so um, and then
1:19:54
Speaker 1: maybe he's had, you know, because a lot of guys
1:19:57
Speaker 1: that that's their jam. They want to they want a
1:19:58
Speaker 1: cal call at the time. Maybe he's had some bad
1:20:00
Speaker 1: encounters with cow calls to where he's like, I remember
1:20:04
Speaker 1: one time I was up here and I've seen a
1:20:06
Speaker 1: dude that was making that noise or something. So they
1:20:09
Speaker 1: came in a little more cautiously. Whereas when you can
1:20:12
Speaker 1: appeal to their instinct to fight, they get they get mad,
1:20:16
Speaker 1: and sometimes you can get them worked up enough they
1:20:18
Speaker 1: they forget about. When they forget about, all they want
1:20:21
Speaker 1: to do is come to you and kill you or
1:20:24
Speaker 1: run you off, and and you're more likely to do
1:20:29
Speaker 1: that by bugling. Now that being said, I will do
1:20:31
Speaker 1: some cow calls just to say, hey, there's something worth
1:20:34
Speaker 1: fighting for over here. You know, if when he bugles,
1:20:37
Speaker 1: I might give him like some very interested like hey,
1:20:41
Speaker 1: I like the sound of you man, come over here.
1:20:44
Speaker 1: So here's your basic cow calls. When that bowls bugling,
1:20:52
Speaker 1: I ramp it up, show some emotion like oh hey there,
1:20:55
Speaker 1: come over. Yeah, kind of put a little bit of
1:21:03
Speaker 1: yearning type of a twist it. But but I won't
1:21:11
Speaker 1: overdo it. I'll give two or three of those, and
1:21:13
Speaker 1: then I'll hit him with a bugle and every time
1:21:16
Speaker 1: but I'll wait so so yeah, and then she's saying like, yeah,
1:21:20
Speaker 1: I'm over here with the bull, but I don't like him.
1:21:22
Speaker 1: I wish you'd come over here, right right, So I
1:21:25
Speaker 1: I let I get the bold of bugle with the
1:21:27
Speaker 1: cow call. He'll bugle at the cow call, and then
1:21:31
Speaker 1: I say with my bugle, I say, hey, don't don't
1:21:33
Speaker 1: talk to my girls. You shut up. And then it's
1:21:38
Speaker 1: like you're like telling him no. Well, he's thinking there
1:21:42
Speaker 1: must be a reason he's wanting to fight for these girls,
1:21:46
Speaker 1: and Also, I think it's just the whole You're putting
1:21:49
Speaker 1: the ball in their court. They're gonna have to do
1:21:50
Speaker 1: something so and you kind of you just kind of
1:21:54
Speaker 1: let it escalate a bit. It's not like you go
1:21:57
Speaker 1: for a third page, third base right right on from
1:22:00
Speaker 1: night gets in the car. You don't fringure, right, Uh.
1:22:05
Speaker 1: You want to let that that temperature build a little,
1:22:07
Speaker 1: little by little, and you'll know because you'll hear his voice,
1:22:10
Speaker 1: the other bull's voice, and you'll hear the anger, and
1:22:13
Speaker 1: pretty soon he'll make a he'll make a bugle that
1:22:16
Speaker 1: there's no mistake. He's he's piste and he wants to fight,
1:22:20
Speaker 1: and that's when you need to ramp it up. You
1:22:22
Speaker 1: feel like you can detect that in his bugle. Oh yeah, yeah,
1:22:25
Speaker 1: there have to be relative. Does it has to be
1:22:27
Speaker 1: relative to his other bugles? Or can you hear a
1:22:30
Speaker 1: single bugle and be like, I feel that that bull
1:22:34
Speaker 1: is pissed, because it has to be like he's more
1:22:36
Speaker 1: pisted now than he was earlier. There's a turning point. Yeah,
1:22:39
Speaker 1: He'll be giving you this normal bugles and then all
1:22:41
Speaker 1: of a sudden you'll hear the emotion in it and
1:22:44
Speaker 1: you'll be like, whoa, he's coming. He's gonna come. And
1:22:47
Speaker 1: shortly after that you'll start hear brush popping. But when
1:22:50
Speaker 1: he does that, he gives you that that bugle. I
1:22:53
Speaker 1: just hammer take, I cut. I try to cut him
1:22:55
Speaker 1: off before he's done bugling a hammering, but it's just
1:22:57
Speaker 1: the meanest one. Just give it right back to him.
1:23:02
Speaker 1: And a lot of times that that's when he's gonna
1:23:04
Speaker 1: start coming. A lot of times after that, I'll just
1:23:06
Speaker 1: kind of if I know he's coming, I'll shut up.
1:23:08
Speaker 1: That's when I clam up, be quiet. It's it's time
1:23:12
Speaker 1: to time to come find me, So I'll just be quiet.
1:23:15
Speaker 1: But how okay, how about if you just trying to
1:23:19
Speaker 1: kill any bowl? That's any bowl? But why is that bolt?
1:23:22
Speaker 1: Why would some little shaver if you're in there just
1:23:25
Speaker 1: like bell earn and squaloring and cutting them off, and
1:23:28
Speaker 1: like why would some little shaver ever dare come into
1:23:32
Speaker 1: forty yards? Wow, there's there's some short dudes at walk around.
1:23:37
Speaker 1: I think they're pretty tough. You know, they'll pick a
1:23:39
Speaker 1: fight with the biggest guy in the bar. Right, So
1:23:41
Speaker 1: there's some little some young bulls that think they're pretty
1:23:43
Speaker 1: tough and curiosity, I mean, I've killed the world's like
1:23:48
Speaker 1: smallest rafter full of like baby rag horns, and I
1:23:52
Speaker 1: use the same strategy. I'm going to kill that herd bowl.
1:23:55
Speaker 1: But all these satellite bowls are still with the herd.
1:23:59
Speaker 1: So a lot of times they'll just come wandering in.
1:24:01
Speaker 1: They might give you some little halfhearted bagles, um, but
1:24:03
Speaker 1: I'll still kill that, you know, small satellite bowls by
1:24:06
Speaker 1: by the same exact tactics that I thought I was
1:24:08
Speaker 1: supposed to use to kill the herd bowl um. And
1:24:10
Speaker 1: then to reiterate on Dirk. So I don't think cow
1:24:12
Speaker 1: Call's work is good. We're kind of reversing nature at
1:24:15
Speaker 1: that point. That bowls got hit for sure thing, like
1:24:17
Speaker 1: I've got ten ladies, I'm good. He's got satellite bowls
1:24:20
Speaker 1: around him. Most likely he doesn't want to leave those
1:24:23
Speaker 1: ten for sure things to come get this one mystical
1:24:25
Speaker 1: lady out on the side. Until you add that bowl in,
1:24:27
Speaker 1: you then just kind of turn change the game at
1:24:30
Speaker 1: that point. So he so he when he beagles, he's like, well,
1:24:32
Speaker 1: this this new lady should just come over and join us.
1:24:35
Speaker 1: We should be good. He's not gonna necessarily leave, you know,
1:24:37
Speaker 1: come a hundred hundred fifty yards leave all those cows
1:24:41
Speaker 1: with some of these other you know, satellite bowls have
1:24:43
Speaker 1: been pestering him all day to come investigate. He you know,
1:24:46
Speaker 1: nature expects that cow to go to him. When you
1:24:49
Speaker 1: win that ALCOHOLM championship, they ever give you big belt buckle, No, dude,
1:24:53
Speaker 1: that'd be sweet man, I'm called. It's kind of lean on,
1:24:56
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, it looks like a pipe late.
1:24:59
Speaker 1: They don't get they don't hand out, they don't, they don't.
1:25:01
Speaker 1: You know. I think one year they did give those out,
1:25:03
Speaker 1: but of course I didn't win that year. You know,
1:25:05
Speaker 1: that was like the one cool thing they gave away.
1:25:07
Speaker 1: But Yanni, Yanni's being all modest. He's not like a
1:25:09
Speaker 1: six time world champion, but he's a good elk caller.
1:25:11
Speaker 1: He might not be an elk competition winner, but he's
1:25:14
Speaker 1: he's a good elk caller. That's all that matters. And
1:25:17
Speaker 1: if Yannie likes to do I curiously, what do you
1:25:18
Speaker 1: guys think about this? He gets in there, he takes
1:25:21
Speaker 1: his jacket off, puts his gloves on, and he sets
1:25:23
Speaker 1: to whooping on brush and rolling rocks and whatnot. Sometimes
1:25:26
Speaker 1: you guys big into that stickture is important as the
1:25:29
Speaker 1: calls are you if you saw him from far off
1:25:31
Speaker 1: to a spot and scope, you think you were looking
1:25:33
Speaker 1: at you like a certifiably insane person running around in
1:25:37
Speaker 1: circles and figure eights and busting trees, drawing rocks, and yeah,
1:25:41
Speaker 1: he gets ready, takes his hat off. A guy I
1:25:44
Speaker 1: was wondering how big of a branch or log should
1:25:47
Speaker 1: he use when he's thrashing brush us, Like he thought,
1:25:50
Speaker 1: we're talking to something you'd bring home and cut off
1:25:52
Speaker 1: for stove wood. Yeah, you had to split it before
1:25:55
Speaker 1: you burned it. But sometimes if I can get just
1:25:58
Speaker 1: the right one, it's probably like, don't know, maybe six
1:26:01
Speaker 1: inches diameter in the middle of when I'm holding it,
1:26:02
Speaker 1: and it's long, it's like eight to ten ft on
1:26:05
Speaker 1: both sides of me. I can be getting two pieces
1:26:08
Speaker 1: of brush at the same time. I remember once getting
1:26:12
Speaker 1: caught by a bowl. I was sitting there doing that,
1:26:13
Speaker 1: holding this giant log. I look over and there's a
1:26:15
Speaker 1: five point standing there looking at me, like, how come
1:26:18
Speaker 1: my guys not shooting you right now? Yeah? He and
1:26:22
Speaker 1: this is anecdotal, uh, but he's in there doing all
1:26:27
Speaker 1: this and carrying on. And we had a bull kept
1:26:30
Speaker 1: bumping into us, bumping into me and trying to get
1:26:33
Speaker 1: around me to get to Janice. He's like, there's that
1:26:36
Speaker 1: damn guy again. Let you try another approach to go
1:26:41
Speaker 1: find out what's going on there? What's going on? That
1:26:45
Speaker 1: young curious bowl right just is like, man, there's something
1:26:50
Speaker 1: going on over there. And yeah, I think I think
1:26:53
Speaker 1: it's the biggest branch. I can find this close and
1:26:56
Speaker 1: go at it. How do you know when to do that?
1:27:00
Speaker 1: Lot of times I wait till a lot of times
1:27:01
Speaker 1: they'll be that stalemate I talk about. They'll get to
1:27:03
Speaker 1: fifty yards and don't want to come in, but they'll
1:27:05
Speaker 1: start raking their antlers on a tree of their own.
1:27:08
Speaker 1: So I'll take into racing as well. And then usually
1:27:12
Speaker 1: what happens, they'll stop and they'll bugle, and when they
1:27:15
Speaker 1: stop in bugle A lot of times I'll cut them
1:27:17
Speaker 1: off and then we'll we'll go both go back to racing.
1:27:21
Speaker 1: And this may take four or five sessions of this
1:27:24
Speaker 1: back and fourth raking and then bugling, and then I'll
1:27:27
Speaker 1: cut them off. But eventually they get pretty worked up.
1:27:30
Speaker 1: You know, they're getting there. It's like I'm getting I
1:27:32
Speaker 1: feel pretty tough, right, now they're they're raking and then
1:27:36
Speaker 1: you're making a mad you're talking smack every time he
1:27:38
Speaker 1: opens his mouth. Pretty soon they're coming. Yeah. Do you
1:27:43
Speaker 1: guys ever do any like pants or like moan in
1:27:46
Speaker 1: the into the tube? Just guys don't wear pants. Yeah,
1:27:52
Speaker 1: we'll do We'll do all the sounds. I don't do
1:27:53
Speaker 1: any glunking, you know, any of that, but we'll do
1:27:57
Speaker 1: nonker is he as it worked, it's part of the rappers.
1:28:04
Speaker 1: I don't know. Now we moan, growl, you do all
1:28:09
Speaker 1: of that. Show people some moaning and growling. I'll do
1:28:13
Speaker 1: some some of the lunks to. I don't know that
1:28:16
Speaker 1: it with the tube. Yeah, I don't know that it works.
1:28:19
Speaker 1: It doesn't. Yeah, so I used you. I can do
1:28:22
Speaker 1: you get up by your deal there, I just tap
1:28:25
Speaker 1: on it. So he's just tapping. He's just got his
1:28:30
Speaker 1: beautile tube and he's just tapping the mouth piece. You
1:28:33
Speaker 1: can do the same thing by making You can do
1:28:35
Speaker 1: the same thing by making suction on the top of
1:28:37
Speaker 1: your mouth and basically sucking in at the same time.
1:28:39
Speaker 1: But in my opinion, I can't do it real well.
1:28:41
Speaker 1: Um so I don't glunk with my mouth. But why
1:28:44
Speaker 1: the bowls. Glunk, Why don't you glunk? It's usually I
1:28:47
Speaker 1: mean at the time you can hear the glunk, you're
1:28:49
Speaker 1: within that six year eight yard window and I'm doing
1:28:51
Speaker 1: other things. I'm trying to get my my release, you know,
1:28:54
Speaker 1: everything knocked up everybody, and then I can still make
1:28:57
Speaker 1: I'm not having to like tap a tube make a
1:28:58
Speaker 1: bunch of movement because you're saying, are you here, It's
1:29:00
Speaker 1: like hearing a turkey girl, it's about ready to do Yeah.
1:29:03
Speaker 1: It's there are guys in the world calling championships that
1:29:07
Speaker 1: are glunking with their mouth real well, not real well. No,
1:29:11
Speaker 1: the kid in the youth division this year it was
1:29:13
Speaker 1: the best. And it's to the point now where there's
1:29:16
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say there's not a lot of skill, but
1:29:17
Speaker 1: I think even some of our judges don't even know
1:29:19
Speaker 1: what they're listening to um and so it's it's pretty
1:29:21
Speaker 1: risky to go up there and use some of your
1:29:23
Speaker 1: time because they're doing like celebrity judges. They're not doing
1:29:25
Speaker 1: like judge judges and doing celebrity It's it's all basically
1:29:29
Speaker 1: the majority of them were all like Utah outfitters and
1:29:31
Speaker 1: guides and stuff. The judges also not celebrity gems, not
1:29:34
Speaker 1: celebrity just behind the scenes guys. But yeah, yeah, I
1:29:37
Speaker 1: think it was pretty risky to do any of that. Well,
1:29:40
Speaker 1: it don't sound right. It sounds like you're beating on
1:29:42
Speaker 1: your tube. It doesn't sound like an actual glunk. If
1:29:44
Speaker 1: you could re actually reproduce it, well, I would definitely
1:29:47
Speaker 1: do it. But it's tough. It's to do some screaming
1:29:51
Speaker 1: and moaning whatnot. They're not screaming moaning, and I mean
1:30:01
Speaker 1: just that subtle. I mean, is he's tending cows. Excuse me,
1:30:06
Speaker 1: you know he's tending cows. Is he's is, he's doing
1:30:08
Speaker 1: his thing, and he's just making those subtle just you know,
1:30:10
Speaker 1: elky sounds. Yeah, what's going on when a bowl makes
1:30:14
Speaker 1: uh like muse COWCOLI kind of mused and stuff. I
1:30:17
Speaker 1: don't even know what he's got going I mean, they
1:30:19
Speaker 1: do the calcol the time. I don't know what the
1:30:21
Speaker 1: heck that means or why he's doing it. I never
1:30:23
Speaker 1: heard him do it in the rut though. I had
1:30:25
Speaker 1: a bowl one time. Every time right before he bugle,
1:30:28
Speaker 1: he'd go and then he just scream. I'm like, man,
1:30:32
Speaker 1: he's got a cow over there and finally he came
1:30:33
Speaker 1: out and I've seen him do it. I'm like, what's
1:30:36
Speaker 1: he do one? But you never throw that in the mix.
1:30:39
Speaker 1: I mean yeah at the World's Yeah, that'd be a
1:30:42
Speaker 1: risky business. Like back a long time, I mean hunting, like,
1:30:46
Speaker 1: it's just it's just it's so rare that you don't
1:30:48
Speaker 1: need to Well, I'm MUing you a little bit here
1:30:53
Speaker 1: and there. There's so much noise and some of those situations,
1:30:56
Speaker 1: like there's so much going on, right, I'm not Yeah,
1:31:01
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess if you can pick out
1:31:03
Speaker 1: the subtle noises, they can too, would be a good
1:31:06
Speaker 1: the like the heavy breathing stuff, I'll do that, like
1:31:11
Speaker 1: when it's really getting pitched back and forth. But that's
1:31:15
Speaker 1: one thing where I'm like, this is risky, Like I
1:31:18
Speaker 1: just don't have the confidence. Does this sound good to him? Yeah?
1:31:21
Speaker 1: Just like breathing through that too, really heavy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
1:31:24
Speaker 1: I've always wondered. I mean you can do that. I'm like,
1:31:26
Speaker 1: I hope this sounds good on his end? Is I
1:31:27
Speaker 1: think it does? Because I don't. I don't know what
1:31:29
Speaker 1: it makes sense in the conversation. But that's where I
1:31:33
Speaker 1: just like resort back to I'll just beat on some brush.
1:31:36
Speaker 1: I'm confident that that sounds right. But the col muse,
1:31:39
Speaker 1: I've mostly only heard him when it's like late season.
1:31:42
Speaker 1: There are they're bashed up again and they're sparring. They're
1:31:45
Speaker 1: doing that light little fun spar and they're sort of
1:31:48
Speaker 1: they're mewing against each other. That's when I've heard it,
1:31:50
Speaker 1: mostly when her abrews mewing um, which brings me to
1:31:55
Speaker 1: late season h calling. A lot of people like post rot,
1:32:02
Speaker 1: like should I even bring calls? Do you guys bring calls?
1:32:06
Speaker 1: I don't leave I don't leave house without at least
1:32:08
Speaker 1: a cow call. If it's November December, Like let's say
1:32:11
Speaker 1: it's a late archery hunt in December, definitely have a
1:32:13
Speaker 1: cow call because you want me want to stop stopping help.
1:32:16
Speaker 1: But I think they're curious year round. Let's say there's
1:32:19
Speaker 1: summons a brush patch pretty close and you just like
1:32:21
Speaker 1: want one to come out to investigate. You start making
1:32:23
Speaker 1: a lost calf excuse me, a lost calf call. Make
1:32:36
Speaker 1: it like a lost calf cow call or or a
1:32:39
Speaker 1: cow call. They might come over and check it out.
1:32:41
Speaker 1: Especially spike Spikes are like, oh man, who's over there
1:32:45
Speaker 1: is that my mom. I mean that they're pretty curious.
1:32:48
Speaker 1: So I think if you can look at yeah, uh
1:32:53
Speaker 1: but yeah, you want to appeal to their curiosity. So
1:32:58
Speaker 1: do you got what what do you guys think when
1:32:59
Speaker 1: people tell you, um that September right early September it's
1:33:04
Speaker 1: all hot, and people are like, oh, it sucked. They're
1:33:08
Speaker 1: not fired up yet? Are you Like? Yeah? I agree, No,
1:33:11
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm gonna I'm gonna prove your own
1:33:15
Speaker 1: just a second. Yeah, So I I I think you
1:33:18
Speaker 1: can all you know, if it's hot, um, you know,
1:33:20
Speaker 1: early morning, late night. But I think I feel alike
1:33:22
Speaker 1: and and I haven't been proven wrong too many times.
1:33:24
Speaker 1: I can go in there and get something fired up
1:33:26
Speaker 1: eventually if they're ilk there. Last year in Idaho, as
1:33:29
Speaker 1: some guys told me there were no Elk there, I'm like,
1:33:31
Speaker 1: I'm bettering you guys are gonna up there and find
1:33:32
Speaker 1: there were no Elk there. They showed me they were.
1:33:38
Speaker 1: I feel like somewhere in that unit, it might not
1:33:40
Speaker 1: be in the base and them in or the basin
1:33:42
Speaker 1: next to it, but somewhere in that unit during September
1:33:44
Speaker 1: it should be able to get something going. Yeah. I
1:33:46
Speaker 1: always come back to the fact I'm like, this is
1:33:49
Speaker 1: their only time of the year to do this. They
1:33:51
Speaker 1: have to figure they're not gonna waste They're not gonna
1:33:55
Speaker 1: be like, well, it's real hot. I don't really feel
1:33:58
Speaker 1: like mating for my time of year that I get
1:34:01
Speaker 1: to make, something's gonna happen. What about when there's no noise, right,
1:34:07
Speaker 1: do you know there's elk there but no one's making
1:34:10
Speaker 1: a peat? Do you go and look for new ones? Yeah?
1:34:15
Speaker 1: The you know the old adage, don't leave elk to
1:34:17
Speaker 1: find elk, But a lot of times that's the game
1:34:19
Speaker 1: I'm playing. If I can't call it in, I'm probably
1:34:22
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to kill it where I hunt.
1:34:23
Speaker 1: Usually it's because big timber, a lot of brush. You
1:34:26
Speaker 1: can't just sneak around and you know, sneak up on
1:34:30
Speaker 1: one and shoot it. So if they won't talk, I'm moving.
1:34:33
Speaker 1: It's funny. And it'll be let's say September and you
1:34:38
Speaker 1: cannot buy a bugle for some reason, there's like there's
1:34:40
Speaker 1: no the elk will not call there. Here, there's there's
1:34:44
Speaker 1: elk here, and the calls I'll leave. I'm like, I'm
1:34:47
Speaker 1: driving twenty five miles to a different complete different drainage
1:34:50
Speaker 1: system and you go over there and they may be
1:34:53
Speaker 1: on fire over there. I've seen that before, just regionally,
1:34:56
Speaker 1: and you might have been in that very spot on
1:34:59
Speaker 1: your an off day if you were there the day before,
1:35:02
Speaker 1: or they might have been on fire. And then there's
1:35:05
Speaker 1: that you'll have an awesome day of bugling and the
1:35:07
Speaker 1: next day will be completely quiet. You'll see that kind
1:35:10
Speaker 1: of fluctuate through the whole the whole rest. So a
1:35:13
Speaker 1: lot of times, if it's not going on here, I
1:35:15
Speaker 1: hike out, jump on the truck, DRIs do a different
1:35:19
Speaker 1: spot and go hunt there. I think a lot of
1:35:21
Speaker 1: that has to do to man with with one cow.
1:35:25
Speaker 1: You get that one cow that's in heat, and all
1:35:28
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, everybody's you know, fired up.
1:35:33
Speaker 1: At least in Colorado. I mean, obviously there's a whole
1:35:36
Speaker 1: bunch of elk there, so maybe it happens more often
1:35:38
Speaker 1: just because there are more elk. But plenty of times
1:35:40
Speaker 1: in third season, which is normally you know, first week,
1:35:44
Speaker 1: maybe even to the second week in November, there's some
1:35:47
Speaker 1: raghorn opening morning that's bugling that you can hear is
1:35:50
Speaker 1: a way and he's not bugling for no reason. There's
1:35:53
Speaker 1: a cow that's in or you know, second cycle or whatever.
1:35:57
Speaker 1: I have a theory, and you guys, I want you
1:35:58
Speaker 1: guys to weigh in on it. So my uncle told
1:36:00
Speaker 1: me this when I was young, just getting into this
1:36:02
Speaker 1: whole thing. He likes to hunt on the end of
1:36:04
Speaker 1: like at least six or seven, eight fifteen dry days
1:36:07
Speaker 1: in a row. He's convinced that when it rains and
1:36:09
Speaker 1: washes that cow sent away, that it kills the rut
1:36:12
Speaker 1: for a day or two because her scent is now
1:36:14
Speaker 1: washed away. Whereas though you know, those semi mature satelight
1:36:18
Speaker 1: bowls that are running ridge tops, running finger ridges can
1:36:20
Speaker 1: pick her sent up after four or five days, you know,
1:36:22
Speaker 1: wherever wherever she later sent down. Whereas that next day
1:36:25
Speaker 1: at rains, he's like, it's gonna kill the rut for
1:36:27
Speaker 1: like two or three days. And I've kind of always
1:36:29
Speaker 1: we've always had good success, like if we can hunt
1:36:31
Speaker 1: through a dry section, but then as soon as you
1:36:33
Speaker 1: get that rain, I'm like, it may just be the
1:36:35
Speaker 1: weather slows him down. But I'm like, I wonder if
1:36:38
Speaker 1: you know that that kind of kills the rut. And
1:36:39
Speaker 1: so I love you know that September, if I can
1:36:42
Speaker 1: get a bunch of dry days, whether it's hot or not,
1:36:44
Speaker 1: it seems to be better. I never heard that, and
1:36:47
Speaker 1: I feel like that would fall under the thing of
1:36:51
Speaker 1: that you just have a wide open schedule. Yeah, and
1:36:56
Speaker 1: you live in your spot. And because I would never
1:36:58
Speaker 1: be like I was gonna but it rain, but it
1:37:01
Speaker 1: rained yesterday. Yeah. I just can't picture someone like actually
1:37:04
Speaker 1: acting upon that. You know there and I'm in the
1:37:06
Speaker 1: same way. Same with moon phases. There's only so many
1:37:08
Speaker 1: September so I'm like, I'm hunting. I'm hunting the whole thing.
1:37:12
Speaker 1: But freshnow, freshnow in Montana and Idaho, like I have
1:37:18
Speaker 1: had a lot of screw it, I'm gonna go hunt
1:37:21
Speaker 1: and had the worst days of like falling elk tracks
1:37:25
Speaker 1: around in the snow, nobody's playing, nobody's talking. I think
1:37:29
Speaker 1: that absolutely shuts them down. I think of wet when
1:37:32
Speaker 1: you get like it happens every year, that wet ass
1:37:35
Speaker 1: September dump of like four inches of slush. It does take.
1:37:39
Speaker 1: It's just like it just ends the party. And often
1:37:41
Speaker 1: I find they just like up and move crazy places.
1:37:46
Speaker 1: They're like pack up, move eight miles or whatever. Yeah.
1:37:50
Speaker 1: One thing that I like confidence kills right, Like whatever
1:37:54
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do may not be the right thing. When
1:37:56
Speaker 1: I'm like really standing it, Uh, you run into the
1:38:01
Speaker 1: cow that calls back aggressively, and I feel like she
1:38:09
Speaker 1: is like, no, no, we're not doing this again, and
1:38:13
Speaker 1: she's gonna go in and like grab the bowl and
1:38:16
Speaker 1: take off. Like when you get like that challenge back
1:38:19
Speaker 1: from the cow, that's like when my heart sinks and
1:38:22
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh boy, I'm re allowed to I'm I'm
1:38:25
Speaker 1: not up to snuff on this one. Like I just
1:38:28
Speaker 1: can't figure that one out and that has killed me
1:38:32
Speaker 1: several times. So what what is this? Do you guys have?
1:38:37
Speaker 1: Like the thing like if you hear it, you're like, well,
1:38:40
Speaker 1: chances are our chances just went from to like separate
1:38:46
Speaker 1: from your situation, Like what is our situation where you're
1:38:50
Speaker 1: a bark? Yeah, well we'll follow a bark now show
1:38:54
Speaker 1: people are bark uh ow, that's a good bark. That's
1:39:02
Speaker 1: that's a really good bark. So um yeah, that's that's
1:39:05
Speaker 1: a great part. It kind of it kind of goes
1:39:07
Speaker 1: back to the why do you know how to do that?
1:39:09
Speaker 1: Because it's one of the required sounds during the Alcohl Yeah, yeah,
1:39:13
Speaker 1: you have to. You have to polish yourself. Ho do
1:39:14
Speaker 1: you ever screw Do you ever like mess other hunters
1:39:16
Speaker 1: up by getting annoyed with the hunt of the hunters
1:39:18
Speaker 1: and barking before you leave? I definitely barking a cow
1:39:26
Speaker 1: that's barking at me. Yeah, and that's what I was
1:39:27
Speaker 1: gonna get back. So it's like, you can't pool their
1:39:29
Speaker 1: nose ever back to your guys as one of elk leaves.
1:39:32
Speaker 1: You can sometimes pool their eyes, but that's typically. I
1:39:34
Speaker 1: think when you get barked out, they've seen or heard
1:39:36
Speaker 1: something that's a little bit off, but they haven't smelled you.
1:39:38
Speaker 1: They're gonna bark at you, and then I us we
1:39:40
Speaker 1: barked back at them. It's not necessarily going to save
1:39:42
Speaker 1: the whole situation, but it may give you just enough
1:39:44
Speaker 1: time to get a glimpse or to keep them around
1:39:47
Speaker 1: long enough before then they tear down the canyon barking
1:39:49
Speaker 1: everything the rest of the way out. Have you ever
1:39:52
Speaker 1: had have you ever been working a bowl and had
1:39:55
Speaker 1: a cow that's with the bull, not off to the side,
1:39:57
Speaker 1: but like a cow with the bull bark then you
1:40:00
Speaker 1: killed the bull. No, I think they've always run away.
1:40:05
Speaker 1: I hate that sound. I hate it. Yeah, they're usually
1:40:07
Speaker 1: there's usually gone, Like I haven't even had a cow
1:40:09
Speaker 1: that's barked, where if she was a blood had enough
1:40:12
Speaker 1: time or the opportunity to shoot it, she's hung around
1:40:14
Speaker 1: like behind the tree that she saw me behind. Um,
1:40:17
Speaker 1: you know, and then or she'll maybe run up a
1:40:18
Speaker 1: hundred yards and keep barking at me. But it's like
1:40:20
Speaker 1: I would have never even had an opportunity. But do
1:40:23
Speaker 1: that bark again at like that bark a whole bunch.
1:40:26
Speaker 1: He's barking through his beatle tube. That's like the worst
1:40:33
Speaker 1: noise on the planet. Why where are you enjoying it?
1:40:36
Speaker 1: I hate it more than a deer blowing? What about
1:40:41
Speaker 1: a wolf, Helen? That do you feel it shuts them down?
1:40:46
Speaker 1: It does my area in Idaho where which is more
1:40:50
Speaker 1: wolf in fested than they where else. Elk consistently they
1:40:53
Speaker 1: will rip one day in the basin, but if we
1:40:55
Speaker 1: hear if we hear him Helen, and they're like that
1:40:57
Speaker 1: night when we're eating dinner, there will not be an
1:40:59
Speaker 1: elk are in there, or they will they will not
1:41:01
Speaker 1: be an that makes a sound in that base in
1:41:02
Speaker 1: the next morning. Um, so we'll typically just like oh,
1:41:05
Speaker 1: we heard him in there. We're gonna go the other way.
1:41:07
Speaker 1: I've had the experience though, Man, I've packed out several
1:41:10
Speaker 1: bowls with wolves Howland in the base, like, and they
1:41:13
Speaker 1: were making noise. Oh, and it's like I think it's
1:41:16
Speaker 1: just like a safety and numbers thing, like, yeah, there's
1:41:18
Speaker 1: wolves here, but everybody's here. We got this, yeah, or
1:41:24
Speaker 1: the chance it'll be me. Yeah. I've had guys say
1:41:28
Speaker 1: that they've heard bulls bugle at the wolves. The wolves
1:41:31
Speaker 1: will howl and bull just scream at them. But my
1:41:35
Speaker 1: experience has not been that is, if there's wolves Howland
1:41:38
Speaker 1: that you think a spaceship come along and took the
1:41:41
Speaker 1: elk away, they disappear and be quiet. I'll get up
1:41:44
Speaker 1: and I'll drive again to try to get completely out
1:41:48
Speaker 1: of their range, because you know those things will cover
1:41:51
Speaker 1: a lot of ground in today five fifteen miles. You
1:41:54
Speaker 1: know the day the wolves will will So I just
1:41:57
Speaker 1: get the heck out of there and find somewhere else.
1:42:00
Speaker 1: I definitely use wolves against people because no matter what
1:42:04
Speaker 1: you see or talk about, like with the fear of wolves,
1:42:11
Speaker 1: either messing up a weekend or whatever, is so strong
1:42:13
Speaker 1: with people. Oh yeah, a lot of wolves sign up there.
1:42:18
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start using wolves against people too, and just
1:42:20
Speaker 1: bring a wolf holler with me first thing in the morning.
1:42:22
Speaker 1: Let a wolf holl out of the bottom. Hopefully everybody
1:42:24
Speaker 1: leaves and they'll have it all to myself. Just mile
1:42:26
Speaker 1: up the trail and set electronic caller past so the
1:42:33
Speaker 1: elk didn't hear that and should be good to go.
1:42:35
Speaker 1: I had that this spring with turkeys. Man, we got
1:42:37
Speaker 1: rights where we needed to be at first light. And
1:42:39
Speaker 1: we're just sitting there trying to hear the first gobble
1:42:41
Speaker 1: you know, in a big, nice, big Montana meadow or
1:42:43
Speaker 1: at the upper end of it and right on top
1:42:46
Speaker 1: of us, like it's you know, it always sounds like
1:42:48
Speaker 1: eight coyotes, probably just two or three, but just go
1:42:51
Speaker 1: nuts for like I mean, I'm like, all right, it's
1:42:54
Speaker 1: been three minutes. Come on, guys, like shut it down already.
1:42:57
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking this is just over. We should
1:42:59
Speaker 1: just start hiking right now. But we wait. We let
1:43:01
Speaker 1: it quiet down, and thirty seconds after they quit, you know,
1:43:05
Speaker 1: down at that was a piss poor gobble. It was
1:43:08
Speaker 1: a very distant gobble. Do another one, yeh couldn't you
1:43:13
Speaker 1: hear it out there in the distance. Do you ever
1:43:14
Speaker 1: hear Yanni's way far off Elk? This is a super
1:43:20
Speaker 1: far away something. Guy wanted us to have a contest.
1:43:30
Speaker 1: He wanted contest who could make the best way far
1:43:32
Speaker 1: off Elk sound? Yeah, you got uh another question yet one.
1:43:39
Speaker 1: I think it's easy. One guy's asking, like, how do
1:43:40
Speaker 1: you set up when you guys are alone? You know,
1:43:43
Speaker 1: like people pretty familiar with the it's easy to visualize
1:43:46
Speaker 1: the concept of like two guys. Right, So one guy's
1:43:48
Speaker 1: calling and he's trying to pull a bowl pass the
1:43:52
Speaker 1: shooter right, So the bowl like he's gonna he's gonna
1:43:55
Speaker 1: approach cautiously. He's gonna, you know, he might not want
1:43:58
Speaker 1: to get more than seven whatever fifty yards in that call.
1:44:01
Speaker 1: And so you got your shooter out there, and um,
1:44:04
Speaker 1: hopefully that bow will come up and hang up and
1:44:06
Speaker 1: cut some half circles and he'll be right in the
1:44:08
Speaker 1: zone of the shooter. But when you're by yourself, what
1:44:10
Speaker 1: do you guys? What do you guys like to do?
1:44:12
Speaker 1: It depends on vegetation. Like if I can move a
1:44:14
Speaker 1: little bit, I'll make my first call just like it
1:44:16
Speaker 1: is a two color set up, and I'll move in
1:44:18
Speaker 1: the direction I think that thing's gonna try to circle
1:44:20
Speaker 1: where I made that first call from. So if i'd
1:44:22
Speaker 1: eight yards and I think I can get away with
1:44:23
Speaker 1: like fifteen yards to my left, I'll make that call.
1:44:26
Speaker 1: They're knowing that the wind's going right to left, he
1:44:29
Speaker 1: should circle into my new location off of my first call. Um,
1:44:32
Speaker 1: you can't always do that, to be honest. Nine of
1:44:36
Speaker 1: the bulls we call in come in straight on. You
1:44:39
Speaker 1: know you're playing that wind directly perfect and comes straight
1:44:42
Speaker 1: on the Yeah, you're not going to ma a broadside
1:44:44
Speaker 1: shot you They're just gonna come directly at your location
1:44:47
Speaker 1: on a on a one man calling set up. Um,
1:44:49
Speaker 1: you know your best bets hope they hold up at
1:44:51
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty and you know, do the pacing back
1:44:53
Speaker 1: and forth show themselves. Um, but we don't really I
1:44:56
Speaker 1: mean with a cameraman or with our caller, Like I
1:44:58
Speaker 1: want to be able to communicate with my colors. Our
1:45:00
Speaker 1: setups are really whether there's two guys or one guy. Um,
1:45:04
Speaker 1: they're really similar. And we talked about that threat earlier.
1:45:07
Speaker 1: If you send you know, the world primos on the
1:45:10
Speaker 1: hill ranch scenario, I can't send my color hundred yards
1:45:13
Speaker 1: back because that that caller who is now the elk
1:45:16
Speaker 1: is no longer a threat when I'm selling back. Kind
1:45:18
Speaker 1: of lost me there. So if you send your like
1:45:21
Speaker 1: on a two man calling set up, when you used
1:45:22
Speaker 1: to watch old Primos truth videos, you know they would
1:45:24
Speaker 1: send a guy a hundred hundred fifty yards back to call. Well,
1:45:27
Speaker 1: if you're a hundred yards away the colors and hundred
1:45:29
Speaker 1: five yards behind you when I'm trying to call a
1:45:31
Speaker 1: public lamb bowl, and it's really tough to to get
1:45:34
Speaker 1: him to commit. Um, So we like to have that
1:45:37
Speaker 1: call or be this because they're they're far enough out
1:45:40
Speaker 1: of a circle that he's not too worried about, you know,
1:45:42
Speaker 1: having to defend his cows or can investigate. So we
1:45:45
Speaker 1: usually like to have that call right with the shooter anyways,
1:45:48
Speaker 1: and we can communicate that way. Um. So our single
1:45:51
Speaker 1: man setups are really similar. Um. You know, the caller
1:45:54
Speaker 1: just calls, and like I said, you can sometimes play
1:45:56
Speaker 1: that win a little bit. You kind of know where
1:45:57
Speaker 1: you're shooting lanes are gonna be based on the wind in.
1:46:00
Speaker 1: But um, we're still aggressive. I'm doing the same exact thing,
1:46:04
Speaker 1: So I use a lot of trickery when I'm by
1:46:07
Speaker 1: myself hunting solo. So as as the bulls approaching, um,
1:46:12
Speaker 1: he gets in that sixty seventy yard range and I
1:46:15
Speaker 1: get that confirmation bugle where he's piste and he's coming.
1:46:20
Speaker 1: I might give him just one more, but at that
1:46:22
Speaker 1: point I'm just I'm gonna do. You start doing some
1:46:24
Speaker 1: trickery where I I kind of throw my voice throw
1:46:27
Speaker 1: and make my call quiet. So I'll do maybe a
1:46:30
Speaker 1: cal call into my gloved hand. I'll have my glove
1:46:32
Speaker 1: on and kind to mute it, to mute it, or
1:46:37
Speaker 1: I'll kind of make cut my hands and force it
1:46:41
Speaker 1: to a different direction. Um. Or I'll take my bugle
1:46:43
Speaker 1: tube and aim it completely opposite of me or off
1:46:46
Speaker 1: to the side a little bit, whichever direction I want
1:46:48
Speaker 1: him to go. Then I'll then I'll cover the into
1:46:50
Speaker 1: my tube with my hand a little bit and let
1:46:54
Speaker 1: a little air come out between my fingers, and they'll
1:46:57
Speaker 1: make a really quiet bugle and it'll it fools him.
1:47:00
Speaker 1: I've had bulls come running by me and I'll have
1:47:03
Speaker 1: to stop him. I'll have to scream right in their
1:47:05
Speaker 1: face to get him to stop and turn back around,
1:47:07
Speaker 1: because he thought he thinks I'm up the hill a
1:47:10
Speaker 1: hundred yards at that point. Yeah, so, and you can
1:47:14
Speaker 1: make it pretty decent. You just don't have to use
1:47:16
Speaker 1: as much air and it kind of changes your air
1:47:18
Speaker 1: your your airflow and your back pressure dynatic dynamics in there.
1:47:22
Speaker 1: So you can make a pretty good bugle with that
1:47:24
Speaker 1: with your hand over there, those falling far away, not
1:47:34
Speaker 1: as far away as yon, he's bull far away, but
1:47:38
Speaker 1: a lot of times if you can do that, it's
1:47:40
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, he's not in this spot anymore. He's
1:47:43
Speaker 1: over here a little bit, and then they'll come walking
1:47:45
Speaker 1: by and you can whack him a new one. For
1:47:47
Speaker 1: the national championships, you do a bull that's five miles away,
1:47:52
Speaker 1: he's getting closer and now I wanted a mile away. Yeah,
1:47:57
Speaker 1: you write that down right? Why are you? Why are
1:47:59
Speaker 1: you highlighting all kinds of stuff in our document? Oh,
1:48:02
Speaker 1: the ones that I feel like we've already gotten norse,
1:48:04
Speaker 1: so I can see what questions are left to hit?
1:48:08
Speaker 1: Which one do we not do? What's your feeling on
1:48:12
Speaker 1: I think you kind of answered maybe to answer this.
1:48:15
Speaker 1: People are like, oh, it's pre rut, it's peak rut,
1:48:18
Speaker 1: post rut. Are you changing your game? Are you just
1:48:21
Speaker 1: out there hunting. I'm just out there hunting. I'm pretty prescriptive.
1:48:25
Speaker 1: I do the same thing now if it's it's really early,
1:48:27
Speaker 1: you know, late August, first September, maybe a little more
1:48:30
Speaker 1: cal calling than typical, which is not still not very much,
1:48:33
Speaker 1: but you know, some of those bigger bulls are still roaming,
1:48:35
Speaker 1: you know, looking looking to gather up to hurt, and
1:48:37
Speaker 1: so I might do a little bit more you know,
1:48:39
Speaker 1: cal talking and being a call company owner, this kind
1:48:43
Speaker 1: of sucks. But a lot of times those paternable balls
1:48:45
Speaker 1: in in that late August, it's sometimes just better to
1:48:48
Speaker 1: go kill them without making a sound. But it's it's
1:48:51
Speaker 1: really hard to say, really hard to say, I'd rather
1:48:53
Speaker 1: I'd rather call out bowl and all fired up. But
1:48:55
Speaker 1: if you have a specific bowl or have some elk pattern,
1:48:57
Speaker 1: like maybe not even make a peep and go go
1:49:00
Speaker 1: kill him. Really but sometimes it's not gonna sell call no.
1:49:04
Speaker 1: But sometimes sometimes they're on fire, you know, late August,
1:49:07
Speaker 1: So I mean it's kind of match what what's going
1:49:09
Speaker 1: on in the area you're in. If there if you
1:49:10
Speaker 1: go in hu An area on August and there's not
1:49:13
Speaker 1: a peep, then I'm probably not gonna just hammer on
1:49:14
Speaker 1: my bugle all day, but um, if they're going off
1:49:17
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna I'm gonna join in. Yeah, he's
1:49:20
Speaker 1: this the real question of a guy being kind of
1:49:22
Speaker 1: snarky about Phelps about the bugle every four seconds. Probably
1:49:27
Speaker 1: he's probably some insider that knows these guys. Can I say,
1:49:30
Speaker 1: can I read it how he said it? Why do
1:49:33
Speaker 1: all the guys that Phelps feel the need to bugle
1:49:35
Speaker 1: every four seconds? Is that the voice he said it?
1:49:38
Speaker 1: You think I feel? I really do feel like we
1:49:42
Speaker 1: hit it. It's funny. I'm glad you brought it up,
1:49:44
Speaker 1: but we hit it right off the top because Jason said,
1:49:46
Speaker 1: he's like, you can't. I can't overcall when I'm trying
1:49:50
Speaker 1: to locate Elk and usually that's by buglin. Well that's
1:49:52
Speaker 1: why you highlighted that one. Yeah, if anybody's ever been
1:49:57
Speaker 1: in a real rut fest with Elk, bulls will bugle
1:50:00
Speaker 1: every five seconds. Literally when they're on fire and and
1:50:04
Speaker 1: like chasing the hot cow or whatever. I mean, there'll
1:50:06
Speaker 1: be bulls people every five seconds. I've had bulls come
1:50:09
Speaker 1: from a quarter mile away bogle almost every step. Just
1:50:15
Speaker 1: just man, this is gonna happen, you know, So I
1:50:19
Speaker 1: think you can't really over bugle at the right times.
1:50:22
Speaker 1: You can sure to overdo it at other times at
1:50:24
Speaker 1: the wrong times. Just it it's situational and it kind
1:50:27
Speaker 1: of depends on on where you're at in your conversation
1:50:29
Speaker 1: with your elk. And we do I mean that that question,
1:50:32
Speaker 1: you know, it's probably very directed. Um. You know, we've
1:50:36
Speaker 1: I think all of us everywhere we've been, you know,
1:50:37
Speaker 1: we were heavy on the bagles. Everything we teach is
1:50:40
Speaker 1: heavy bugling. And I think people can get frustrated because
1:50:42
Speaker 1: we're out there. They think, you know, we're overcalling or
1:50:45
Speaker 1: telling people they should overcall. And then there's just right times,
1:50:48
Speaker 1: like we're not out there just buggling, you know from
1:50:51
Speaker 1: the truck window or doing this stuff you're not supposed to.
1:50:53
Speaker 1: It's it's somewhat calculated. We're trying to bugle in the
1:50:55
Speaker 1: new basins. But I just I don't think you're educating
1:50:59
Speaker 1: them until that, you know, you either call them in
1:51:00
Speaker 1: and windham, um, you know, if they've been messed with.
1:51:03
Speaker 1: But at the point where you're just if you sound
1:51:05
Speaker 1: enough like an elk, you're just basically saying, hey, I'm
1:51:08
Speaker 1: up here. You're wanting to get a response, hand him
1:51:09
Speaker 1: down here or you know, or hey, I'm over here. Um,
1:51:13
Speaker 1: I don't, and it's hard. I mean, we're just speculating
1:51:15
Speaker 1: what's going on. But I don't think you can shut
1:51:17
Speaker 1: down a complete area just by over biggling if you
1:51:19
Speaker 1: sound like an elk, you know, from from maybe an
1:51:22
Speaker 1: outsider's perspective. Let's say this guy's watching you from the
1:51:24
Speaker 1: other side of the base and the other side of
1:51:26
Speaker 1: the drainage, and he's watching you walk up the hill
1:51:28
Speaker 1: and you bugle every every two minutes. A guy, a
1:51:35
Speaker 1: person here is watching you, and you're like walking over
1:51:39
Speaker 1: here in your bugle, and you're walking over here, and
1:51:41
Speaker 1: you seem like that guy needs a shut up? Why
1:51:43
Speaker 1: is he bigling so much? But on your side, you're
1:51:45
Speaker 1: looking at train features. Okay, you're up on a on
1:51:48
Speaker 1: a ridge. You're bugling down into these canyons. Right. Well,
1:51:52
Speaker 1: if I walk a hundred yards this way, I've got
1:51:54
Speaker 1: a little different angle down into this draw We're I'm
1:51:57
Speaker 1: bugle into you know, I've had this before. We're I
1:52:00
Speaker 1: couldn't hardly hear a bull walk a hundred yards and
1:52:02
Speaker 1: then wow, I can hear him really well? Um, yeah,
1:52:05
Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy hunting with two dudes where the
1:52:09
Speaker 1: guy who's five ft ten feet up the mountain above you,
1:52:13
Speaker 1: it's like did you hear that? You know? And I'm
1:52:16
Speaker 1: down below and being like hear what makes to each
1:52:19
Speaker 1: other on the trail talking All of a sudden, it's
1:52:22
Speaker 1: like three guys also, two of them frantically point in
1:52:24
Speaker 1: some directions. Every one was like what yeah, yeah, He's
1:52:28
Speaker 1: like you're like in the middle of a thaw or
1:52:29
Speaker 1: you're getting d you know what I mean, whatever, man,
1:52:31
Speaker 1: you just it's just different. I liken it to fishing.
1:52:33
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't just go up to your fishing spot,
1:52:36
Speaker 1: throw one cast out and be like, yeah, no fishing here.
1:52:38
Speaker 1: I mean you you cast this way, every little bit,
1:52:41
Speaker 1: you cover that entire little spot where you're standing in
1:52:43
Speaker 1: the river before you ever move, you go up, you know,
1:52:46
Speaker 1: however far to start casting again. It's the same with
1:52:49
Speaker 1: elk counting. I mean, you gotta probe every little spot.
1:52:52
Speaker 1: There might be a bullet can't hear you, or you
1:52:54
Speaker 1: can't hear him and it's like, oh, there he is.
1:52:56
Speaker 1: Or many times you know, you locate, locate, locate, You
1:52:59
Speaker 1: might be six hunder yards on the trail and one
1:53:00
Speaker 1: answers you know, right back to the spot you bugle
1:53:03
Speaker 1: three or four times ago. It's just you don't know
1:53:04
Speaker 1: where they're eating, what they're doing, if they're paying attention,
1:53:06
Speaker 1: or just didn't feel like answering you when you were
1:53:08
Speaker 1: that close. So what does why do you? What does
1:53:11
Speaker 1: all the guys that felps mean? How many guys are there?
1:53:16
Speaker 1: I know, your mind, your wife are there? They call
1:53:18
Speaker 1: it too much. I think it's more of our our
1:53:20
Speaker 1: end users, you know, the I think we get you
1:53:23
Speaker 1: and your your disciples. Yeah, yeah, I mean all of us, us,
1:53:26
Speaker 1: the born and raised crew, you know Derk, all of
1:53:28
Speaker 1: us that that teach and hunt the way we do,
1:53:31
Speaker 1: and you know we we bugle a lot. So I
1:53:33
Speaker 1: think they're they're they're lumping the crew and who uses
1:53:37
Speaker 1: our stuff? And and yeah, there's there's different camps in
1:53:40
Speaker 1: the way to hunt. Right there's the guy that I
1:53:42
Speaker 1: never bugle, I just caw call. And there's the guys
1:53:44
Speaker 1: that say, I never make an ELK call at all.
1:53:47
Speaker 1: I just shadow the herd and I wait for my opportunity.
1:53:50
Speaker 1: And then there's our camp that bugles all the time.
1:53:53
Speaker 1: So they're probably saying, yeah, those helps guys. Yeah, if
1:53:57
Speaker 1: you guys kill like a shipload elk every year, we
1:54:00
Speaker 1: try like between you guys and been born and raised, like,
1:54:04
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a reason to be like starting
1:54:06
Speaker 1: about why you guys called too much. It works, It works.
1:54:09
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's just people maybe get a
1:54:11
Speaker 1: little bit disgusting, you know, somebody's in the area and
1:54:13
Speaker 1: then just people biggling all over it. And so I
1:54:15
Speaker 1: think it's just kind of generated that that hate for bugles.
1:54:17
Speaker 1: You've heard that for, Yeah, I mean in Colorado last year,
1:54:20
Speaker 1: I mean we were we were trying to chase the
1:54:22
Speaker 1: real bull why trying to avoid like the three other
1:54:25
Speaker 1: fake bugles that were chasing us, and we're trying to
1:54:27
Speaker 1: stay between them and the bull that we got going.
1:54:29
Speaker 1: It was just, I mean, there are a lot of
1:54:30
Speaker 1: guys out there bugling in some of these areas, and
1:54:32
Speaker 1: so I can see why, Hey, everybody, just put your
1:54:35
Speaker 1: tubes away. But you know this one time in Idaho,
1:54:38
Speaker 1: was hunting with Corey Jacobson and Donnie Drake and we
1:54:41
Speaker 1: got back to the pickup and there was a note
1:54:43
Speaker 1: on the pickup and said, if you guys were hunting
1:54:46
Speaker 1: up the basin. This morning, you bagle way in in
1:54:49
Speaker 1: capital letters, way too much. With bogle the normal amount
1:54:54
Speaker 1: you can go up the basin, you cover around, you
1:54:56
Speaker 1: make a big loop. You know you're probe and you're
1:54:58
Speaker 1: listening for Elkin. I mean, we didn't bugle excessively in
1:55:01
Speaker 1: our mind, but that guy was probably like, listen to
1:55:05
Speaker 1: those idiots down there, divisive. Yeah you guys build a
1:55:10
Speaker 1: new uh you build a new facility. Yeah yeah, a
1:55:13
Speaker 1: new shop, new warehouse, office space. Finally, um, make us
1:55:17
Speaker 1: way more efficient. Still got a day job. We have
1:55:20
Speaker 1: part time, part time training my replacement. But um, it's
1:55:25
Speaker 1: about training to replace. Yeah. It's about a two year process.
1:55:28
Speaker 1: So what we do is not like you know that
1:55:29
Speaker 1: much stuff. Well yeah, well it's just it's not normal
1:55:32
Speaker 1: and it's cyclical. So you're always doing something as a
1:55:34
Speaker 1: granty eight, you know, you write grants and interview grants,
1:55:37
Speaker 1: so it's like, well on this day, you don't do
1:55:39
Speaker 1: the same thing you do like next week. So it
1:55:41
Speaker 1: takes about two years to go through and and figure
1:55:44
Speaker 1: it out. So hopefully when that's all done, we'll look
1:55:46
Speaker 1: at reducing the time there. I love seeing it though, man,
1:55:49
Speaker 1: like someone like built you know it's also making a
1:55:52
Speaker 1: cool little business. And I'm just I just saverboded a Dirk.
1:55:55
Speaker 1: Now he'll take care of you. I'm busy. Now he does.
1:56:00
Speaker 1: Um what else we got, Yannie? I'm getting into Yanni's
1:56:02
Speaker 1: brain a little bit here by looking at how he
1:56:05
Speaker 1: highlights stuff. I would think that one, in my mind,
1:56:10
Speaker 1: one highlights things that are meant to pay attention to.
1:56:16
Speaker 1: Yanni highlights things that you're supposed to ignore. So if
1:56:21
Speaker 1: Yanni left you a note and highlighted parts of it,
1:56:25
Speaker 1: you think that he was highlighting the parts that's highlighting.
1:56:29
Speaker 1: He's actually highlighting the parts that are at least important.
1:56:33
Speaker 1: Yanna's just switched to a black highlights real quick scratch out.
1:56:38
Speaker 1: You might you might want to find a strikeout feature. Yeah,
1:56:40
Speaker 1: that's pretty, that's like, yeah, you just figured it out.
1:56:44
Speaker 1: So highlight means that we're done with it. Uh So
1:56:50
Speaker 1: the fact that it's not highlighted makes me feel that
1:56:52
Speaker 1: Yanni wants to talk about this is good. Hit him
1:56:56
Speaker 1: with number twenty three, Yanni, number Oh, would you rather
1:57:00
Speaker 1: call a bull uphill or downhill? Downhill? Side hill? That's
1:57:06
Speaker 1: not an option? I need straight question because for me,
1:57:09
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't matter. It's like, well, whatever the wind's doing,
1:57:12
Speaker 1: that's gonna be. I mean, let's assume that the winds
1:57:15
Speaker 1: good in both those situations that I, in my opinion,
1:57:17
Speaker 1: calling bull's downhill. They've got gravity on their side. You know,
1:57:20
Speaker 1: two bulls that think they're gonna posture up. That bull
1:57:22
Speaker 1: coming from uphill towards downhill has got the advantage at
1:57:26
Speaker 1: that point. Um, so I think he'll come more easily down. Yeah,
1:57:29
Speaker 1: because he's got an advantage with gravity on his side. YEA.
1:57:31
Speaker 1: If I was on a steep pitch and I was
1:57:33
Speaker 1: supposed to fight, Yannia, be like, I'll take the uphill,
1:57:36
Speaker 1: see exactly. Oh yeah, that's a good point. Now why
1:57:39
Speaker 1: do you like sidehilling? Um? Okay, so you have your
1:57:42
Speaker 1: thermals to go up and down. Okay. So let's say here,
1:57:45
Speaker 1: it is two o'clock in the afternoon. You got this
1:57:47
Speaker 1: bull going, You get on the side hill from him. Okay,
1:57:50
Speaker 1: it's easy for him to come straight straight across to you,
1:57:53
Speaker 1: which they prefer. Most elk trails do come across the hill.
1:57:56
Speaker 1: That's a good point. So it's very easy. Make it
1:57:58
Speaker 1: easy for him to come to you. And also you're
1:58:01
Speaker 1: you're you're strategizing with the wind. So it's the middle
1:58:05
Speaker 1: of the day, got a warm hill side, you got
1:58:08
Speaker 1: thermal's going up. All of a sudden, big cloud comes over.
1:58:11
Speaker 1: Where what's the thermals do? They go back downhill? Sometimes
1:58:14
Speaker 1: they swirl a little bit, but hardly to do that
1:58:16
Speaker 1: if you go straight sideways, so you're kind of stack
1:58:19
Speaker 1: on that wind in your favor um to where you
1:58:23
Speaker 1: know if the wind has change that or if your
1:58:25
Speaker 1: side hill. Let's say that bull drops, you can drop
1:58:28
Speaker 1: really quickly to try to get on his same level
1:58:31
Speaker 1: again and so he don't get your wind, or you
1:58:33
Speaker 1: can climb and not as far if he if he's
1:58:36
Speaker 1: trying to go above you and get you. I'm feeling yeah,
1:58:39
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny talk about like how trails, Uh
1:58:41
Speaker 1: you guys ever spent much time in wild Pig country
1:58:44
Speaker 1: because you get used to how trails are on hills
1:58:47
Speaker 1: always angles like they either side hill they cut those
1:58:50
Speaker 1: like switchback angles. You know, all your trails hither like that,
1:58:53
Speaker 1: and wild Pig country see trails just going smack up hills.
1:58:57
Speaker 1: Oh wow, trails like running straight up hill and don't
1:59:00
Speaker 1: even think about and you look as like that's the
1:59:01
Speaker 1: weirdest looking trail because you realize how many trails are
1:59:04
Speaker 1: like shallow, you know, shallow crisscross you kind of networks. Okay,
1:59:10
Speaker 1: so there's that one. I like seven. I do too,
1:59:16
Speaker 1: But they already answered it. We gonna ask it again,
1:59:19
Speaker 1: though they answering in a roundabout way. Is blind cow
1:59:22
Speaker 1: calling while creeping through the woods a good tactic? What
1:59:26
Speaker 1: I'll do rather than creep through the woods. Let's say
1:59:29
Speaker 1: I haven't heard any bulls and I'm just covering country.
1:59:32
Speaker 1: I'm going from point A to point B, and I
1:59:34
Speaker 1: don't want to be quiet because I gotta get there.
1:59:38
Speaker 1: So as I'm walking along, stomping on brush and kicking
1:59:41
Speaker 1: rocks and stuff, I'll just throwout a couple of cow
1:59:44
Speaker 1: calls every little bit that and and a lot of times,
1:59:48
Speaker 1: even just walking through the woods popping brush without a
1:59:51
Speaker 1: cow call, you'll get a bullet. It's close by. He'll
1:59:53
Speaker 1: fire up and be like, hey, you're an elk. I
1:59:55
Speaker 1: know it is. It's gotta be you located my bolosh
1:59:57
Speaker 1: in Colorado when we're just walking through calcul one was
2:00:01
Speaker 1: a cow calor bugle? Thank you? Cal called. They're just
2:00:03
Speaker 1: one stimond he answered. Here's a good one. I like
2:00:07
Speaker 1: this one. What about a guy that's uh, let's say, uh,
2:00:13
Speaker 1: you were on a cow tag. What do you bring
2:00:16
Speaker 1: out in the woods for calls exact same spike or cows.
2:00:21
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna locate that herd ball or get able
2:00:23
Speaker 1: to answer because the cows are going to be around here. Yeah,
2:00:26
Speaker 1: so at least start the game the same. You're still
2:00:28
Speaker 1: gonna move in get the win, right, so you're out
2:00:29
Speaker 1: of the cow tag, you bring in your bugle, ye,
2:00:31
Speaker 1: I mean because you you the game is still the
2:00:35
Speaker 1: same right until the end of you know how, you're
2:00:37
Speaker 1: gonna kill that cow and then I would probably keep
2:00:39
Speaker 1: that bull bugle and then just more spot and stock
2:00:41
Speaker 1: at that point, just try to squeeze in close enough
2:00:43
Speaker 1: to the herd to get a shot versus calling that bowling.
2:00:46
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Same with spike hunters. You know, get hey,
2:00:49
Speaker 1: we can only hunt spikes and each from Washington this year.
2:00:51
Speaker 1: What should I do by pretend like you're unting the
2:00:53
Speaker 1: herdball right till the end and then caw call him in,
2:00:55
Speaker 1: but then don't shoot him. Yeah. I don't know how
2:00:58
Speaker 1: many times I've had spikes come around and then just like,
2:01:01
Speaker 1: oh man, there's somebody else over hey man, and then
2:01:03
Speaker 1: too late. So seriously, like you go out like I'm
2:01:06
Speaker 1: hunting a cow tag or whatever you got, and you're
2:01:08
Speaker 1: bugling to find Elk. Oh yeah, I mean I would
2:01:10
Speaker 1: still glass first. Thing, Like if I didn't have to
2:01:12
Speaker 1: make a sound, it would be ideal. But um say
2:01:14
Speaker 1: they're all, you know, going to timber in the bras,
2:01:15
Speaker 1: you can't spot them anymore. I would just go back
2:01:17
Speaker 1: to locate and just like hunting big bulls. Hmm, it's
2:01:21
Speaker 1: gonna that's gonna piss a lot of people off because
2:01:22
Speaker 1: they're gonna have all the cow hunters out there. But
2:01:26
Speaker 1: that's interesting, man, that's interesting. Or I mean you don't
2:01:29
Speaker 1: after being a bagle, you can you know, you can
2:01:30
Speaker 1: chase the real bagles that you hear without locating them.
2:01:33
Speaker 1: But I just feel like you can force her hand,
2:01:35
Speaker 1: force him to make sound a little bit better if
2:01:37
Speaker 1: you had the location bogle with you. Yeah, I'm liking
2:01:42
Speaker 1: that number thirty. That's boring. Different whatever you want answer,
2:01:52
Speaker 1: my answer will be boring. That's a good question. Are
2:01:54
Speaker 1: there different calling Roosevelt Elk versus a copy? Yeah? Minds
2:02:00
Speaker 1: how highlighted though our guests are prepared. I don't think
2:02:03
Speaker 1: you should give him a copy of the question. Dude,
2:02:07
Speaker 1: how are we gonna get a gotcha moment? You got
2:02:11
Speaker 1: plenty of So the difference between Roosevelt and Rocky I
2:02:15
Speaker 1: was fortunate if UM grew up in the little body
2:02:17
Speaker 1: gave you a copy of the questions he wanted us
2:02:19
Speaker 1: to be prepared. We had to, We had to google
2:02:21
Speaker 1: all these Well, the do you find your ant attractive? Question? Yeah,
2:02:27
Speaker 1: hold on, that can be a bit of a gotcha.
2:02:30
Speaker 1: So growing up, you know, an hour from the coast
2:02:32
Speaker 1: of Washington, grew up, all I knew was Roosevelt hunting.
2:02:35
Speaker 1: UM fortunate enough in the last ten years to get
2:02:37
Speaker 1: the hunt Rockies. They sound exactly the same. We call
2:02:39
Speaker 1: them exactly the same. The one main difference I feel
2:02:42
Speaker 1: in the areas I've hunted is that the Rockies aren't
2:02:44
Speaker 1: really tied down to a necessarily a court area, um,
2:02:48
Speaker 1: where like Roosevelt's they will live their entire life in
2:02:50
Speaker 1: a one mile one and a half mile circle. Um.
2:02:53
Speaker 1: Is the main difference is that right for the most part.
2:02:56
Speaker 1: So like you, I hear that about I hear that
2:02:58
Speaker 1: about black Tales in the rainforest two people top all
2:03:01
Speaker 1: he'll have a zone man and that's where he lives. Yea,
2:03:03
Speaker 1: the same with our elk. We grew up as a
2:03:05
Speaker 1: rifle muzzlier hunter. Like you spooked the elk, like you
2:03:07
Speaker 1: might as well, just the way they went turned around
2:03:09
Speaker 1: and walked the circle backwards and we went. They're they're
2:03:11
Speaker 1: trying to get back to where you know you spooked
2:03:13
Speaker 1: him and get back to their core piece of timber.
2:03:16
Speaker 1: And um, we're rockies. It's like you bump them in
2:03:18
Speaker 1: the next time you see them, like five miles away
2:03:20
Speaker 1: running the next ridge. Still they're just gonna go find
2:03:22
Speaker 1: a new place to live, you know, or whatever. But
2:03:24
Speaker 1: that that that's the main difference. Like Colling is the
2:03:26
Speaker 1: same our our Roosevelt's chuckle more, I think, um sometimes
2:03:31
Speaker 1: you know, I would say half the bulls don't even
2:03:32
Speaker 1: get a high note vehgle. They just did chuckle um,
2:03:35
Speaker 1: which is a little bit of a difference. But you know,
2:03:37
Speaker 1: other than that, they all sound the same. Yeah, I've
2:03:40
Speaker 1: never hunted Roosevelts, so I can't really comment on that.
2:03:43
Speaker 1: What are the main states you like to hunt? Um Love, Wyoming,
2:03:47
Speaker 1: um hunter, Montana wants. I'd like to hunt in Arizona
2:03:51
Speaker 1: some day, but Idaho's basically might go to because I
2:03:54
Speaker 1: live there, you know, hunt close to home, and it's
2:03:57
Speaker 1: probably the worst elk hunting in Idaho right there club us.
2:04:00
Speaker 1: But um, it's close and I know the area and
2:04:03
Speaker 1: and it's easier to get away, you know. Speaking of
2:04:06
Speaker 1: getting away, guy wanted to know what's the best way
2:04:10
Speaker 1: to ask my wife to extend a hunting trip without
2:04:13
Speaker 1: getting in trouble. All that is, um is preparation before
2:04:19
Speaker 1: hunting season ever gets there. That's all the lead up.
2:04:21
Speaker 1: So you pay your dues, all winner all summer. Yeah,
2:04:25
Speaker 1: with your wife. You you do all those things with
2:04:28
Speaker 1: your wife, you know, let her know, like, hey, I
2:04:30
Speaker 1: really like to take an extended vacation this year elk hunting.
2:04:34
Speaker 1: And then so you start, you start laying the groundwork
2:04:37
Speaker 1: win as soon as you know you're gonna go hunt
2:04:39
Speaker 1: and say I'm gonna do this is my plan this year.
2:04:42
Speaker 1: And then but that you know, I'm gonna make sure
2:04:44
Speaker 1: you get you're into the deal good too. Yeah yeah,
2:04:48
Speaker 1: toe you're out of your hair. Yeah, they're out of
2:04:55
Speaker 1: the hair. One of them is making his own money.
2:04:58
Speaker 1: And my daughter she still in college so pretty soon
2:05:01
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get him off the payroll. So now you're
2:05:05
Speaker 1: only But that's what I'm talking about. Man, you got
2:05:08
Speaker 1: all that over with, right, forty five and I got
2:05:10
Speaker 1: the whole deal ahead of me. But the bad part
2:05:12
Speaker 1: is being forty five and being an empty nester is now,
2:05:16
Speaker 1: who are my friend options? Like, hey, let's go hang out? Well,
2:05:19
Speaker 1: I can't all my people my age, they got little kids,
2:05:22
Speaker 1: so well we got baseball, we got this or that one.
2:05:24
Speaker 1: Now it's like old retirees, you know, like sixty year olds, like, hey,
2:05:28
Speaker 1: you want to go? I don't know. I don't think
2:05:29
Speaker 1: I couldn't do. You got guys like year old, Yeah, true, true,
2:05:34
Speaker 1: they're interested. Now yeah, there you go there. So okay,
2:05:39
Speaker 1: so I want to get back. I needed to get
2:05:41
Speaker 1: a better snapshot of what because if you're like divorced
2:05:43
Speaker 1: three times, right, yeah, I pay attention. I just had
2:05:47
Speaker 1: to get that. I had to find out what we're talking,
2:05:49
Speaker 1: what we're what we're working with here. So you're saying
2:05:52
Speaker 1: that you're real upfront. Yeah you're like, come September or whatever,
2:05:55
Speaker 1: here's what's gonna happen. But I'm gonna I'm gonna really
2:05:59
Speaker 1: throw down hard on husbanding. Yeah, yeah, I say, honey,
2:06:03
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do anything you want to do the rest
2:06:06
Speaker 1: of the year, but please let me have my time
2:06:08
Speaker 1: in September or whatever hunt months you're hunting. Let me
2:06:11
Speaker 1: have my time. Then I was just gonna say, you
2:06:15
Speaker 1: don't even have to request like an extra couple of days.
2:06:18
Speaker 1: You're just calling and check it in and saying, hey,
2:06:19
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be home Friday instead of Wednesday. Right, what's
2:06:23
Speaker 1: the thing you did, um to earn hunting time? Uh?
2:06:31
Speaker 1: What's the thing you did that was you feel the
2:06:32
Speaker 1: most out of character for you? Oh? Um, I don't know.
2:06:40
Speaker 1: Go to the big city, you know, go go take
2:06:43
Speaker 1: a trip to Seattle, Washington or something and and hang
2:06:45
Speaker 1: out and walking walk up and down the wharf there
2:06:48
Speaker 1: and check things out. That's not my cup of tea
2:06:51
Speaker 1: at all. You're cool about it. Yeah, right, you're like, man,
2:06:54
Speaker 1: this is the best time. I'm like complain a little
2:06:56
Speaker 1: bit in Seattle. Well, you know, it's just horrible, but
2:07:01
Speaker 1: um yeah, but I yeah, I pay those dudes because
2:07:05
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that And and it's the
2:07:07
Speaker 1: great thing about my wife is she she understands men.
2:07:10
Speaker 1: Neither time me neither time to kind of get away
2:07:13
Speaker 1: from things, the pressures of life and kind of decompress,
2:07:16
Speaker 1: find themselves a little bit in the woods. And then
2:07:19
Speaker 1: because she knows, when I come back, I'm better. I'm
2:07:21
Speaker 1: usually better, you know, I'm a better person. I've I've
2:07:24
Speaker 1: kind of left some things behind. Um, I feel like, okay,
2:07:28
Speaker 1: now I can focus on other things other than just
2:07:30
Speaker 1: got all this stuff about hunting in my head. I
2:07:33
Speaker 1: think that it's helpful. There's a game you play, like
2:07:38
Speaker 1: if you've got the break to your spouse that you're
2:07:39
Speaker 1: going to do something that's gonna leave them, you know,
2:07:45
Speaker 1: it's gonna leave them in a troubled spot. Meaning like
2:07:49
Speaker 1: for us in my marriage, it's not about that you're gone.
2:07:52
Speaker 1: It's not that that you're absent and I miss you.
2:07:54
Speaker 1: It's that there's a lot that has to happen because
2:07:57
Speaker 1: we're raising young kids, right, So you know, if I
2:08:01
Speaker 1: if I had to worry about that, it wouldn't really
2:08:04
Speaker 1: matter at all. Right, Like we were kind of you know,
2:08:08
Speaker 1: we have our lives and we're cool with each other,
2:08:10
Speaker 1: and you know it's like if if I don't see
2:08:12
Speaker 1: my wife for a while, it's right, I don't need
2:08:14
Speaker 1: to worry what she's up to. Right, there's a lot
2:08:16
Speaker 1: of trust and faith, but to leave, you're sort of saying, like,
2:08:21
Speaker 1: I'm taking off. We won't see each other. That's cool,
2:08:23
Speaker 1: but I realized that while I'm gone, you're dealing with
2:08:28
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, yeah, a lot of responsibility. It's
2:08:30
Speaker 1: like a lot taking her little kids are heard. But
2:08:32
Speaker 1: uh so you wind up battling in your head between
2:08:36
Speaker 1: this thing of down playing how long you be gone
2:08:41
Speaker 1: or over playing how long you be gone. So you're
2:08:46
Speaker 1: sort of like you want to leave and everything's cool, right,
2:08:48
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, probably just two three days because
2:08:51
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that's not so bad, right if and
2:08:54
Speaker 1: then you feel that then if you want to stay longer,
2:08:58
Speaker 1: you're like, dah, I wish I would have been more truthful,
2:09:01
Speaker 1: But had I been more truthful, then I might not
2:09:03
Speaker 1: have left with the good blessing. Right. It's like you
2:09:08
Speaker 1: you're gambling. You're gambling the way because you could come
2:09:10
Speaker 1: and be like, I'm going ten days and then they're
2:09:13
Speaker 1: annoyed and you come back earlier and it's cool, but
2:09:17
Speaker 1: you're you're up in the chance that you're gonna leave
2:09:19
Speaker 1: and they're already annoyed. Yeah, it's kind of a tough one.
2:09:23
Speaker 1: A lot of times, like when the kids were little, Um,
2:09:26
Speaker 1: we would take the whole fam damnly to to help
2:09:29
Speaker 1: camp and Mama and the kids would hang out camp
2:09:32
Speaker 1: and getting the dirt and dig and build spears and
2:09:35
Speaker 1: do whatever else kids do it at a little kid age.
2:09:39
Speaker 1: And I go hunting, and I come back sometimes head
2:09:41
Speaker 1: out in the morning, come back and sometimes come back
2:09:43
Speaker 1: around lunch and go and then go back for an
2:09:45
Speaker 1: evening hunter. Sometimes you'll be gone all day, depending on
2:09:48
Speaker 1: where the spot I was gonna hunt. Um. But that
2:09:51
Speaker 1: made a big difference too, because that that engages them,
2:09:55
Speaker 1: that gives them something fun to do that The kids
2:09:57
Speaker 1: love being being there. They understand what dad's doing. Um.
2:10:00
Speaker 1: And then um, as the teenagers got as they got teenagers,
2:10:05
Speaker 1: you know, then they have other responsibilities. You know, they're
2:10:07
Speaker 1: they're playing sports and stuff like that, and it's tough
2:10:09
Speaker 1: for them to get away to go hunting with dad. Um.
2:10:12
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's why I don't think that's that's a
2:10:15
Speaker 1: good idea. Yeah. I always said we should have had
2:10:18
Speaker 1: our kids be bookworms, you know, and just like hell, yeah, man,
2:10:21
Speaker 1: heck with sports, you know, dirt bikes and and four
2:10:25
Speaker 1: wheelersion and scheduling and just where you can just go
2:10:30
Speaker 1: and enjoy the outdoors. That's the way to do it.
2:10:32
Speaker 1: That's definitely the way to do it. Why don't know, Janni,
2:10:35
Speaker 1: they're supposed to have a far off bugle comp Someone
2:10:38
Speaker 1: actually asked for this. They wanted to be honest, Dirk
2:10:41
Speaker 1: and Jason to do a no call whistling only who
2:10:45
Speaker 1: can do the best way far off elk oh, I
2:10:48
Speaker 1: got this? Oh you did you do this too? Like
2:10:52
Speaker 1: when I tell a story, you know, okay, I've only happened.
2:10:54
Speaker 1: I've told this story once before. It's only worked once
2:10:57
Speaker 1: for me. But we were walking along the area you
2:10:59
Speaker 1: actually did, says a hunch along as the irrigation along
2:11:02
Speaker 1: in the irrigation ditch and George Brown leave his name was.
2:11:06
Speaker 1: He's like, have you ever heard of guys whistling for
2:11:08
Speaker 1: tbugle bulls? It's like no, never have its like give
2:11:11
Speaker 1: a shot, you know just what kind of stood there?
2:11:16
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden I just hear hoofs coming
2:11:21
Speaker 1: and coming up the hill. I mean there's calves and
2:11:24
Speaker 1: cows and I can see a brand Chandler bull coming
2:11:26
Speaker 1: and they literally ran by us and just went on
2:11:30
Speaker 1: up the timber and we had and it was late
2:11:31
Speaker 1: in the morning, so we're like, all right, we'll come back,
2:11:33
Speaker 1: and we got we know where there's out for the
2:11:35
Speaker 1: evening hunt. But I don't think I've ever gotten response since,
2:11:39
Speaker 1: and it was just coincidence. I've never got a response
2:11:42
Speaker 1: one that's a whole different approach it again. Read yeah,
2:11:56
Speaker 1: my west line working. That doesn't have that that lonesome
2:12:00
Speaker 1: distant sound. It's got the reverb though. James Phelps, Wow,
2:12:08
Speaker 1: that was pretty sight the chap Man, it was really
2:12:18
Speaker 1: it was really windy. Word. I can't whistle? Apparently I
2:12:25
Speaker 1: can't either. That's going it's some kind of weird bird
2:12:36
Speaker 1: seth whistle man, I can't wis had a wooden whistle,
2:12:43
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't whistle. That was the thing my dad
2:12:45
Speaker 1: used to say. One last fun one, if you could
2:12:48
Speaker 1: only hunt with one September fift would you bring your
2:12:51
Speaker 1: binos or bring your calls? Calls? Calls? Where's that question?
2:12:57
Speaker 1: Steve bos Are called, did you say a date? Yes,
2:13:00
Speaker 1: September fifteen? He doesn't say a date. Why are you corrupting?
2:13:04
Speaker 1: The person's question? Is the crowdsourced or not. It is.
2:13:10
Speaker 1: I'm just making it better. I'm hunting on September fifteen,
2:13:14
Speaker 1: and I could have my vinyals or my calls. I'll
2:13:16
Speaker 1: have my calls because I'm presumably bow hunting. Yea, yeah,
2:13:20
Speaker 1: i'd be fine. Oh yeah, I can locate out just
2:13:24
Speaker 1: fine with my with my eyeballs. And if it was
2:13:26
Speaker 1: November one, everybody would choose binoculars. November one, I'm switching,
2:13:33
Speaker 1: so it was a time of year when you'd go
2:13:35
Speaker 1: out with your nyals and not your calls. That's true.
2:13:38
Speaker 1: Calls salesman, you could be doing some reverse psychology right
2:13:41
Speaker 1: now like that and earlier saying that in August, late August,
2:13:46
Speaker 1: you might not use a call at all, because then
2:13:49
Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, I trust this person. Yeah,
2:13:51
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm doing. I'm gonna buy his calls
2:13:53
Speaker 1: because he's not slimy and ye but I actually went
2:13:56
Speaker 1: up selling. We should back that up. He's pretty trustworthy. Fella. Oh,
2:14:00
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's obvious he wouldn't be
2:14:04
Speaker 1: in here hanging out if you was slimmy. I think
2:14:05
Speaker 1: from this conversation, you just call vortex, you get a
2:14:08
Speaker 1: collap go on and you integrate a call into the
2:14:11
Speaker 1: buyos bagle to BUYO are you blow into the eyepiece
2:14:14
Speaker 1: in it and it doesn't fog up? Okay? What else?
2:14:20
Speaker 1: We got anything? Questions? Anybody else? Seth cal you anything
2:14:25
Speaker 1: you want to add or ask? M No, no, no,
2:14:31
Speaker 1: I mean I like like all this stuff. Do questions
2:14:34
Speaker 1: for you. Someone wants to know if you have any
2:14:37
Speaker 1: plans for a fawn and distress call for black tails.
2:14:42
Speaker 1: We've got one cal last time we talked about this
2:14:45
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I think I sold all of them
2:14:46
Speaker 1: we had. Um, no, we've We've got a phone in
2:14:48
Speaker 1: distress call already. That really I go out and play
2:14:51
Speaker 1: with the does and phones in my yard right now
2:14:52
Speaker 1: and it's it's the coolest thing ever. I have, uh,
2:14:56
Speaker 1: a bit of a hoarding problem with these calls because
2:14:58
Speaker 1: I do find a blow them out. Um they're awesome
2:15:03
Speaker 1: though they would the best. I love them. And we can,
2:15:05
Speaker 1: I mean that's the one thing to get that phone
2:15:07
Speaker 1: distress as perfect as a pretty light read, but we can.
2:15:09
Speaker 1: We also offer replacement reads to see in a tool
2:15:11
Speaker 1: just there. Yeah, what are you using those? Like? You
2:15:15
Speaker 1: know what hunting situation? I started messing around with him
2:15:18
Speaker 1: a lot um with mule deer and like during rifle season,
2:15:24
Speaker 1: and I started and then like, there there's no better
2:15:28
Speaker 1: tool for black bear hunting. I absolutely love them for
2:15:32
Speaker 1: black bear because it solves some issues I find that
2:15:35
Speaker 1: immature bears. It's very similar to like when you're calling
2:15:40
Speaker 1: out one of the scenarios that you guys described, but
2:15:44
Speaker 1: when you're kind of ringing a dinner bell with highly
2:15:47
Speaker 1: competitive predators, only the big ones are going to come
2:15:51
Speaker 1: into that phone call. And typically from what I've seen
2:15:55
Speaker 1: totally anecdotal, typically from what I've seen, their bores. One time,
2:15:59
Speaker 1: I was I had a fun distress call and I
2:16:03
Speaker 1: was in southeast Alaska and I was creeping up on
2:16:07
Speaker 1: a bear and I got where he was down in
2:16:10
Speaker 1: a channel. There's a big grass flat like an estuary,
2:16:12
Speaker 1: and he's down a channel. I couldn't see him. And
2:16:16
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, the call and he'll obviously
2:16:19
Speaker 1: come running up out of there. And I started blowing
2:16:23
Speaker 1: the call and out of the woods across the grass flat.
2:16:26
Speaker 1: Out of the woods comes uh blacktail dough piste runs
2:16:33
Speaker 1: right through where I thought the bear was, crosses the channel,
2:16:37
Speaker 1: pops up on my side right in my face, stomps
2:16:40
Speaker 1: all around, gets all mad, goes back the where she
2:16:43
Speaker 1: came from, and I'm like, oh, so something obviously happened.
2:16:47
Speaker 1: The bear's gone or whatever he would she would have
2:16:49
Speaker 1: come through there, And I walk over and look down
2:16:51
Speaker 1: in that bear is still sitting there eating grass. So
2:16:54
Speaker 1: not only was he not interested in the call, he
2:16:57
Speaker 1: was not interested in the piste off dough that basically
2:17:00
Speaker 1: ran him over and never broke stride. Yeah, it's like
2:17:05
Speaker 1: it's so hard to tell. And then the thing that
2:17:08
Speaker 1: makes the thing so funny, it's the same trip we
2:17:10
Speaker 1: had one trying to climb in the boat with us
2:17:13
Speaker 1: where we pulled up and I just like beach the boat.
2:17:16
Speaker 1: Didn't even get out of the boat and blew a
2:17:18
Speaker 1: call and you can't shoot from a boat there, blew
2:17:21
Speaker 1: a call and I'm up in the front of boat,
2:17:23
Speaker 1: my buddies in the back, so it's real deep, you know,
2:17:25
Speaker 1: And uh, I started we were like watching his bear,
2:17:28
Speaker 1: and we kind of lost track him. So he knows
2:17:30
Speaker 1: the boat up into the gravel and I'm just standing
2:17:31
Speaker 1: on the front seat and I started calling and this
2:17:33
Speaker 1: bear is like I'm gonna get it, Like he looked
2:17:35
Speaker 1: like he's gonna get in the boat, and I'm telling
2:17:37
Speaker 1: my buddy get out of the boat and shoot. But
2:17:40
Speaker 1: it's real deep where we pulled up. Remember, Like, who
2:17:44
Speaker 1: care he didn't want to jump out because he'd got
2:17:45
Speaker 1: so wet if he jumped out of the boat. But
2:17:48
Speaker 1: it's like the different moods they're in and you know
2:17:50
Speaker 1: what I mean, like what they got going on, it's
2:17:52
Speaker 1: so funny, like the different attitude because that fun and
2:17:55
Speaker 1: distress called to like I've hit it at times and
2:17:59
Speaker 1: seen reform of life run out of the canyon as
2:18:04
Speaker 1: fast as possible. Yeah, they're killing stuff in here, exactly,
2:18:08
Speaker 1: everybody out. It's like that scene in uh was that
2:18:14
Speaker 1: Ballad of Buster scribed the Ballad of Buster scrob Yeah,
2:18:17
Speaker 1: when the when the minor when Tom Waits rolls into
2:18:20
Speaker 1: the base. Yeah, that's great. Alright, Any closers, what's new?
2:18:27
Speaker 1: What's anything on the horizon. We're gonna we're gonna work
2:18:30
Speaker 1: on the Deer coal line, Predator coal line. We've got
2:18:32
Speaker 1: a few new things, um on the Olt coal line.
2:18:35
Speaker 1: But um, you know, just just going down that road
2:18:37
Speaker 1: trying to kind of fill in the rest. And we've
2:18:39
Speaker 1: been been pretty busy on the turkey on the olt
2:18:41
Speaker 1: call side, and then just trying to kind of wrap
2:18:43
Speaker 1: up the whole line from start to finish. So we're
2:18:45
Speaker 1: just you're gonna put some pressure on test a bunch
2:18:47
Speaker 1: of new products as falling, then hopefully have some releases
2:18:50
Speaker 1: next year. You know what calls you think of you
2:18:53
Speaker 1: in our call, I think you ought to do. I
2:18:56
Speaker 1: think you should devote some time to uh make and
2:19:00
Speaker 1: blue grouse calls who no, no, no, no, not not
2:19:07
Speaker 1: a rough grouse drumming, but blue grouse for spring blue
2:19:10
Speaker 1: grouse hunting in Alaska, and you can make the female call. M.
2:19:18
Speaker 1: This is the whole thing. Listen, this is like what
2:19:21
Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now. What I'm telling you right now.
2:19:25
Speaker 1: It would be like if let's let's imagine that it's
2:19:28
Speaker 1: and I said, you know what someone ought to do
2:19:30
Speaker 1: is find a way to make a elk bugle noise.
2:19:34
Speaker 1: I'm giving you that right now. All right, all right,
2:19:35
Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm giving you that right now. I'm telling
2:19:38
Speaker 1: you something that's gonna like paying your time capsule will
2:19:41
Speaker 1: open it in thirty years and you'll be like, man,
2:19:44
Speaker 1: I can't believe I didn't do it. Because it turned
2:19:45
Speaker 1: into this huge thing and I had it laying right
2:19:47
Speaker 1: and I had it later right in my lap. Don't
2:19:48
Speaker 1: ignore that. Seek a deer market in Maryland either, Yeah,
2:19:54
Speaker 1: so I that might be something because those guys all
2:19:56
Speaker 1: run around with your kidding. They run around with European
2:20:01
Speaker 1: made calls. You can't have that, God bless America. Yeah,
2:20:05
Speaker 1: don rome fells the old Europe We've we've been, so
2:20:12
Speaker 1: you guys are all over this. No that look that
2:20:20
Speaker 1: up YouTube sounds just like it. No, because we're pros man.
2:20:26
Speaker 1: We've heard him. You've heard him many many many times.
2:20:29
Speaker 1: And one thing he doesn't something like that way too elaborate.
2:20:33
Speaker 1: In Maryland they go three packs, not nearly that long.
2:20:38
Speaker 1: So I got a guy hunting in New Zealand. We know,
2:20:40
Speaker 1: oh that might be holding his sounds just like that. No,
2:20:44
Speaker 1: they're like three little shorts toilet water spins the opposite
2:20:48
Speaker 1: way down there too. All right, So, um, you're not
2:20:56
Speaker 1: you're you're You're probably gonna get get into the blue
2:20:58
Speaker 1: the blue grouse, not blue, asked the blue grouse market. Well,
2:21:03
Speaker 1: it's ducks like ducks. We have duck calls. I'm not
2:21:06
Speaker 1: a die hard duck guy. Um, so I reached out
2:21:09
Speaker 1: to some guys in Oregon, Eric Strand. So, Eric Strands
2:21:12
Speaker 1: kind of in charge of our duck call um waterfowl
2:21:15
Speaker 1: goose call line. So I've kind of like to stay
2:21:18
Speaker 1: in your lane. Pay. I don't want to try to
2:21:20
Speaker 1: pretend like I know what I'm doing on that side. Um,
2:21:22
Speaker 1: I'll go shoot them if they call him in for me,
2:21:24
Speaker 1: but I don't do that. Um, but we are, we're
2:21:27
Speaker 1: filling in outside so cool, Eric sans, So you need
2:21:30
Speaker 1: to be you want to be like a full one
2:21:32
Speaker 1: stop shop. Yeah, I just want to fill all the
2:21:34
Speaker 1: lines in and get the right people. Like I said,
2:21:35
Speaker 1: I'm a turkey elk, a little bit of predator guy.
2:21:38
Speaker 1: You know, I'm comfortable in that sector. But um, in
2:21:40
Speaker 1: order to bring some of these other things, and I'm
2:21:42
Speaker 1: just gonna go find the best people that I can.
2:21:45
Speaker 1: So he's really good, really accomplished waterfowl caller, and and
2:21:48
Speaker 1: knows how to build him and tunes him. He tunes
2:21:50
Speaker 1: all of our waterfowl calls right now. So Dirt got
2:21:55
Speaker 1: the concluders. You know what a concluder is? Final thoughts? Oh,
2:21:59
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it. Um. I think people give up
2:22:02
Speaker 1: on trying to learn how to call it up too quick. Um,
2:22:06
Speaker 1: they might their buddy says, hey, go get X call
2:22:10
Speaker 1: and try it. It works awesome, and they try it,
2:22:13
Speaker 1: they suck. They can't do it, so they're like, yeah,
2:22:16
Speaker 1: it ain't for me. You hear this a lot. You
2:22:18
Speaker 1: go to trade shows, like I can't do these calls,
2:22:21
Speaker 1: and you hand one to a guy and kind of
2:22:24
Speaker 1: coach them a little bit, and pretty soon they're making
2:22:26
Speaker 1: noises and like, wow, I think I might be able
2:22:28
Speaker 1: to do this after all. So um, people just give
2:22:31
Speaker 1: up pretty quick. I'm calling elkin. I mean, the best
2:22:34
Speaker 1: part about calling out because it's super fun. I mean,
2:22:36
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a it's a means to
2:22:39
Speaker 1: an end. I mean, you're trying to take a take
2:22:41
Speaker 1: a beautiful elk home with you and have some delicious food.
2:22:44
Speaker 1: But um, it's sure it's fun too. It's it's like
2:22:47
Speaker 1: the best time you can have. There might not be
2:22:49
Speaker 1: any more fun to be had in the hunting universe. Absolutely,
2:22:56
Speaker 1: you kind of stole my concluer. I'm gonna keep it.
2:22:58
Speaker 1: I'm gonna reuse it. Well, how long you've been practicing
2:23:02
Speaker 1: I've been doing this thirty years I've been calling out
2:23:04
Speaker 1: for thirty years, Um, and when did you stop improving?
2:23:08
Speaker 1: I get better every year. I pick up little things
2:23:11
Speaker 1: that like, Wow, that Elk did this, and like I
2:23:14
Speaker 1: try to do it. You know, I'm big on, you know,
2:23:16
Speaker 1: trying to mimic the alphabet because I want to sound
2:23:18
Speaker 1: like an ELK. I don't want to set you sound
2:23:20
Speaker 1: like me. So I'll try to pick up little things
2:23:22
Speaker 1: for Milk all the time. Um. I feel like we
2:23:25
Speaker 1: kind of make the same old rookie mistakes every year,
2:23:28
Speaker 1: just like everybody. But but but you you'll learn a
2:23:32
Speaker 1: lot every year. So um yeah, but I think, you know,
2:23:35
Speaker 1: people just give up on it too quick. Like, you know,
2:23:38
Speaker 1: put some effort into it. It doesn't take an hour
2:23:40
Speaker 1: a day of practicing. If you practice five minutes a day,
2:23:45
Speaker 1: three times a week, you're starting. You'll start building that
2:23:47
Speaker 1: muscle memory of what to do with that call. When
2:23:49
Speaker 1: you get in your mouth and you start in January,
2:23:54
Speaker 1: by September, you're gonna be able to make some pretty
2:23:56
Speaker 1: darn good Elk noises. Especially with what the world we
2:23:58
Speaker 1: live in. I mean, we have YouTube and the Internet
2:24:01
Speaker 1: and there's all this information on how to use calls.
2:24:04
Speaker 1: We didn't have that one I as a kid. I mean,
2:24:06
Speaker 1: I had Larry D. Jones videos to watch and and
2:24:09
Speaker 1: try my best to make it and elp noise. When
2:24:11
Speaker 1: I first started all hunting, I hadn't even heard a
2:24:13
Speaker 1: really elk bugle before before September first, you know, And
2:24:19
Speaker 1: that was the first time I heard an elk bugle.
2:24:21
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, I getta figure that I sound different,
2:24:24
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna try to figure it out. By the
2:24:26
Speaker 1: end of that season, I sounded pretty good. You know,
2:24:28
Speaker 1: all things considered, caught on pretty good. But people just
2:24:31
Speaker 1: need to to to practice, not give up, and have
2:24:35
Speaker 1: faith in their calls. What do you got, seth is
2:24:38
Speaker 1: about trip problem beavers? Yeah exactly. Um, send us your
2:24:42
Speaker 1: problem beaver spots, send us an email. You know, we politest.
2:24:48
Speaker 1: We'll bring you some cook beaver meat. No road messing,
2:24:51
Speaker 1: no road messing. Yeah, we're the real deal, you know, fostering.
2:24:56
Speaker 1: We'll bring little kids out, cute little kids out, introducing
2:24:59
Speaker 1: kids to the wa. He's gotta come up with a
2:25:02
Speaker 1: name for your operation, oh man, flip flop flash or yeah,
2:25:11
Speaker 1: do you any other concluder stuff? Um, I'm pretty stowed
2:25:15
Speaker 1: for elk season. Now after all that just got you
2:25:17
Speaker 1: fired up? Oh yeah, yeah, I do. Um yeah. Here
2:25:23
Speaker 1: in that first bugle from from Jason, that's it, Like
2:25:30
Speaker 1: I like the elk noises make me start thinking about
2:25:34
Speaker 1: what the hell am I doing this office? You just
2:25:36
Speaker 1: started getting ready. I would recommend all the people that
2:25:41
Speaker 1: are all fired up right now and they're going to
2:25:43
Speaker 1: uh Phelps's website to buy themselves a gray and a
2:25:47
Speaker 1: black am they should also get one of Phelps's external
2:25:53
Speaker 1: read single read cal calls. You guys call it the
2:25:58
Speaker 1: the easy astress. Can you get the different with or
2:26:02
Speaker 1: is that you got a call that's kind of special order?
2:26:05
Speaker 1: But we're pretty we've got great customer service here. Just
2:26:09
Speaker 1: let us know, I mean, put it in the comments.
2:26:11
Speaker 1: We do make a bunch of stuff, but I just
2:26:13
Speaker 1: didn't want to skew ourselves. If you want something different,
2:26:15
Speaker 1: one of deeper sounding calcoul let us know and we'll
2:26:17
Speaker 1: make it happen. Yeah, but that's it to me, that's
2:26:20
Speaker 1: a pretty easy call to I think for beginners and
2:26:22
Speaker 1: some people that if you're just really struggling with the
2:26:25
Speaker 1: gag thing and you're just you know, diagragms aren't going
2:26:28
Speaker 1: for it. Man, those external reads I don't leave home
2:26:32
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, they're super effective. My concluders is a
2:26:35
Speaker 1: note on calling in general, where it's easy to view
2:26:41
Speaker 1: when you start out hunting or you start out trying
2:26:43
Speaker 1: to hunt something new, it's easy to view it as
2:26:45
Speaker 1: it's all about the end. You know. Um, it's just
2:26:49
Speaker 1: like what I'll do whatever I need to do to
2:26:50
Speaker 1: try to get one. And you think about when we
2:26:55
Speaker 1: first started hunting turkeys. You know, we were aware that
2:26:57
Speaker 1: calling turkeys was the thing, but we just bushwhag them.
2:26:59
Speaker 1: We get we find one goblin, we glass one up
2:27:02
Speaker 1: and belly crawling on wait from to make a mistake
2:27:05
Speaker 1: and um, and then later when you realize like like
2:27:08
Speaker 1: to call something. Ah, man, it's just different. It's so
2:27:12
Speaker 1: much more fun. And when you learn how to do,
2:27:14
Speaker 1: it's effective. And it's like there's certain scenarios. You know,
2:27:19
Speaker 1: if you lay your decoys out and you're calling ducks
2:27:23
Speaker 1: and you can you keep getting like birds coming in
2:27:25
Speaker 1: with cupped wings and the birds coming with cuped wings,
2:27:29
Speaker 1: and you wind up at the end of the day whatever,
2:27:30
Speaker 1: you got four of them, and you could have got
2:27:31
Speaker 1: four jump shooting. It's just different. It's so much more fulfilling.
2:27:35
Speaker 1: It's like you're just seeing It's like you're seeing something
2:27:39
Speaker 1: happen and the and oftentimes these things wind up helping
2:27:42
Speaker 1: you have more end result too, even though it takes
2:27:44
Speaker 1: longer to get there. I'm very happy that, uh, to
2:27:48
Speaker 1: have UM, very happy to have like figured that out
2:27:53
Speaker 1: with turkeys, figure that out with ducks. We used to
2:27:56
Speaker 1: belly crawl ducks when we were kids with belly crawl
2:27:59
Speaker 1: ducks and jump shoot us. But then later like taking
2:28:01
Speaker 1: the time to learn how to call him. It my god,
2:28:03
Speaker 1: just so much more. It's so much more rewarding and
2:28:05
Speaker 1: why and as far as exhilaration, UM, in the hunting world,
2:28:11
Speaker 1: even beyond the hunt world, to have a you know,
2:28:16
Speaker 1: some six seven pound bowl screaming in your face is
2:28:20
Speaker 1: just like it is unnerving in the best possible way.
2:28:26
Speaker 1: And you fooled that wild animal to come into your calls,
2:28:30
Speaker 1: that's that's the best. If I don't take him home
2:28:32
Speaker 1: with me, that's okay. But I fooled that sucker into
2:28:35
Speaker 1: coming in and I saw him. It's almost like counting
2:28:38
Speaker 1: coup on him, you know, And it's almost it's almost
2:28:40
Speaker 1: like that, you know, it tests your metal man, like
2:28:43
Speaker 1: I don't care. You might think you have nerves and steel,
2:28:45
Speaker 1: you know, but uh, when that's going on, it's so
2:28:49
Speaker 1: hard to keep your head together. I'm sure it gets less,
2:28:52
Speaker 1: but it's just like you're just like, wow, this thing
2:28:55
Speaker 1: is it's just like this deafening sound from this huge
2:29:01
Speaker 1: slobbering you know what I mean, snapping trees and half
2:29:05
Speaker 1: with his antlers, and it's just it's really something to see.
2:29:08
Speaker 1: It's really something to see. Anything else. Oh, plug the
2:29:12
Speaker 1: newsletter on it. Last, but not least, you should go
2:29:15
Speaker 1: to the Mediator website and sign up for the newsletter.
2:29:19
Speaker 1: Get it once a week. Keep up on everything we've
2:29:21
Speaker 1: got going on here at meat Eater. Yeah, go to www.
2:29:24
Speaker 1: Dot the meat eater dot com. Um, go on and
2:29:28
Speaker 1: give us a five star review click the right most star.
2:29:32
Speaker 1: But if you're listening there on through iTunes or Apple
2:29:35
Speaker 1: and you find us on social uh like Instagram, A
2:29:39
Speaker 1: whole bunch at Stephen Ronella the Eagle is at Janice Poodles,
2:29:45
Speaker 1: Janice underscore. That's right, Janice uh Cal is at O
2:29:50
Speaker 1: cal four oh six right O l c A L
2:29:53
Speaker 1: four oh six seth at signs on the score West.
2:29:59
Speaker 1: That's true. I keep thinking he's a sign builder. I
2:30:05
Speaker 1: know he's talking about beaver sign signs, underscore what he's
2:30:09
Speaker 1: looking for. Sign Oh, I like that. I like that.
2:30:12
Speaker 1: You guys do you guys are on the Instagram? Yeah yeah,
2:30:14
Speaker 1: we were pretty active, lots of inspiring bull bull out photos.
2:30:18
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. The battle between our our calls is alive
2:30:21
Speaker 1: and well. But we're at Phelps game calls, Phelps game calls,
2:30:25
Speaker 1: and I'm at the Bugler one word yea all again
2:30:32
Speaker 1: most portantly uh newsletter www dot the me eater dot
2:30:37
Speaker 1: com and again felps game calls. Good dudes, the Bugle
2:30:42
Speaker 1: too much, but they're good. But they're good dudes. Thanks
2:30:46
Speaker 1: for having us. It's awesome. Se