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The Silence of the Lambs · The Next Reel Film Podcast

• 0:03
  Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
• 0:05
  Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
• 0:06
  Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
• 0:09
  Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
• 0:11
  Pete Wright: The silence of the lambs is over. Tell me, mom, when your little girl's on the slab, where will it tickle you?
• 0:19
  Trailer: You spook easily, Starling. Not yet, sir. Please pass the others. The last cell, I'll be watching. You'll do fine.
• 0:31
  Trailer: A killer is on the loose.
• 0:33
  Trailer: Keeps them alive for three days, then he shoots them, skins them, and dumps them.
• 0:39
  Trailer: A rookie FBI agent is on his trail.
• 0:42
  Trailer: He's got real physical strength, cautious, precise, and he's never impulsive. He'll never stop.
• 0:51
  Trailer: But in order to track him down, she'll have to match wits.
• 0:56
  Trailer: I'll help you catch him, Clary. Believe me, you don't want Hannibal Lecter inside your head.
• 1:01
  Trailer: With the darkest of all minds. Just
• 1:05
  Trailer: do your job and never forget what he is.
• 1:08
  Trailer: Oh, he's a monster. Pure psychopath. So rare to capture one alive.
• 1:13
  Trailer: So close to the way you're gonna catch him. Do you realize that? Oh, Clarice, you're probably making me to get more fun out of life. You told me you don't spook easily. You call this easy, sir?
• 1:27
  Leicester's missing hand or arm. Man's a raving maniac. Who knows what he'll do? Thank you, Clary.
• 1:38
  Pete Wright: Oh, Andy, here we are. It's finally this is Hannibal's Hannibal right here. I mean, Brian Cox was great, but, you know, he kept his powder dry for succession, I think.
• 1:50
  This is the Hannibal that that we want, The Hannibal we deserve. This is certainly the Hannibal that people remember most, I would say. I think Anthony Hopkins, I mean, there's a reason he ended up doing so well in awards season for this because it's a film where his character really was very prominent and stood out as somebody that you just can't forget. It's spot on perfect.
• 2:16
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It it really is. Now we're coming at this right after we're in the middle of our Hannibal series, Hannibal Lecture series. And I've now I spent this weekend, and I binged all of the movies. And you could say that might that was a mistake.
• 2:35
  Because why would I wanna watch this on the same day that I watch Hannibal rising? I mean, talk about a crappy dessert.
• 2:42
  Pete Wright: I well, I mean, I can't speak to that. So I I have yet to see that one. So I'll just have to wait Weeks. Three weeks until we actually get to that one. Yeah.
• 2:51
  So slow your roll, mister.
• 2:52
  Andy Nelson: It does it does come on the heels of Manhunter we talked about last week. And I would like to know now that you've seen both of these movies back to back, Do you agree with me that it's that Silence of the Lambs is the same movie, but better?
• 3:08
  Pete Wright: Yeah. That's an interesting perspective, because we're certainly watching films about a, you know, a detective, somebody with the FBI, somebody who's working for law enforcement, who is trying to track a serial killer, ends up needing to get help from Hannibal Lecter in order to stop them. There is very much a very similar story. And it makes me wonder if the books carry as much similarity or I mean, I I read you've read both. I've only read Silence of the Lamb, so I can't speak to Red Dragon.
• 3:41
  Would you say that your recollection of the books I know it's been a while. Are they pretty similar?
• 3:46
  Andy Nelson: It's yeah. It's been a while. I made the choice to watch the movies instead of review the books this weekend. So, so I but my my memory of it is that it is also very similar. And it's almost like Thomas Harris was like, hey.
• 3:58
  I think I can do this better. Let's try again.
• 4:01
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It does feel that way. I I do think that there is, an element where it feels like the same story. And I mean, you talked about it a little bit last week. Like, the real the main difference, I guess, that we're seeing is the fact that in the last film with Will Graham, we're really getting him as a character who who is already, you know, has been working in the industry of law enforcement for a while and is good at his job and caught Hannibal Lecter, but in the process, kind of was broken mentally, psychologically, quit the force.
• 4:39
  And the only reason he's doing this now is because he needs to kind of get back into that headspace of of cat and mouse, of prey and predator, and and trying to figure out how does he do that. And so he does it by latching on to Lecter. So it's really kind of it's more kind of the psychological shift for him that he needs. Whereas with with Starling in this film, it's really she's new. She's still a trainee at the FBI in the academy.
• 5:08
  And while she's incredibly intelligent and is able to figure things out, I I think the difference is that she is using it as a learning opportunity, and and he sees it as kind of a chance to Hannibal sees it as a chance to help her and mold her a little bit. And that's what I think is interesting and certainly will continue to be interesting as we move forward into the next film as well as their relationship continues.
• 5:34
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I I think structurally is that that that that's the piece that I think is really fascinating. The fact that this is a movie where we take our principal character out of context. We take Will Graham out of his sort of intellectual, psychiatric retirement. We take Clarice out of school.
• 5:51
  Right? She's a trainee. And we thrust them into this new world where they're tracking a serial killer, Buffalo Bill and Dollarhide. And that serial killer is somehow known by Hannibal Lecter, who is this sort of book of the vampire for the movie, who helps us to helps our principal character understand the mode and operation of the serial killer. And there is a mentor in the form of Jack who is working for who is an FBI agent.
• 6:26
  And the entire scaffold of this movie, of both of these movies, is sort of beat for beat the same. The difference is, and this was my point last week, that because Clarisse is new, that gives extra stakes for her relationship with Lecter, and I think that makes this movie more interesting because she is vulnerable the entire time. She's super smart, but she's vulnerable in every beat. And because she is a woman, and I'll say Jodie Foster is a diminutive, you know, statured woman, that we have also this sort of angle of how she handles herself in a predominantly male investigation and male field of law enforcement. And we get all kinds of the those sorts of, you know, sequences where we see her vulnerable just culturally, just because she is a smaller framed woman.
• 7:20
  And I find that something that we get in this movie that we just don't you're never gonna get that in Will Graham because he's good at his job and successful and a man. Like, we just can't have it just never has the same sort of resonance and fear that we get in silence of the lambs. Everything about silence of lambs just levels up the story that comes from these two. It feels like a do over to me in in a a solid way.
• 7:49
  Pete Wright: Well, even to the point where in the previous film, we know there had been psychological issues that Graham had you know, he quit the force over after everything that happened because of his, we'll just say, his journey, his his character journey to capture Lecter. That whole process broke him in some way. We only get that spoken a few times. They talk about how he's just he can't do it, and he needs to get his mind in the game and all that sort of stuff. Whereas in the silence of the lambs, we actually do get more of that psychological backstory of of Clarice.
• 8:28
  Right? Where we actually, several several times in the film, we get scenes where we see her having these flashbacks to her childhood with her dad when he's coming home in the police cruiser, the funeral home when she's walking up to see his dead body. And so we're getting this sense that there is this weight that she's been carrying through her life and perhaps also what's pushed her into law enforcement. Right? I mean, he was a cop.
• 8:54
  She's going into the FBI. And so we're we're certainly seeing that element of her, which really plays into much stronger those conversations that she has with Lecter because because he uses that opportunity to kind of explore her and go back to his days of being a shrink and actually, like, having these deep psychological conversations with her to kind of explore her backstory and dig deeper into her psyche, which we never get with Will. It's always much more of a surface story. And again, I don't know if that's actually in the book, but the way it's depicted in the film, it's pretty surface. It's surface,
• 9:37
  Andy Nelson: and you get the sense that Graham the Graham we get in the movie is just more capable of protecting himself from that sort of vulnerability. Like, that sequence where he says, you know, you had disadvantages. You're insane. That it it's it's a different sort of relationship that we get. I mean, Hannibal Lecter is a predator, and he's a predator even when he's in psychiatric mode with Clarice.
• 10:01
  Right? Making her dive into these deep experiences of pain and past trauma is
• 10:08
  Pete Wright: just sort
• 10:09
  Andy Nelson: of the motive. Like, you never get the sense that he's doing it out of a willingness to help her improve her mental health around these issues and resolve past trauma. He's doing it because he gets joy out of watching her do it. Right? That's the the sociopathic journey that he's on.
• 10:29
  And I I think that just makes for watching her have to figure out, am I being used? How am I being used? And how can I then figure out kind of sort of grow up and learn to use Lecter as we see her kind of relationship evolve with him through the course of the film is deeply compelling? Right? That that she gets much more of a journey than than Graham does, I think.
• 10:52
  Pete Wright: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I suppose you could argue, well, it's because she's a student and she's moving up in the world, but I think that also diminishes it a little bit. I think there's more to it than just that.
• 11:05
  You know?
• 11:05
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. She's super nuanced. Right? She's she's just a super nuanced character because she's not the hardened detective archetype. You you feel like, oh, I went to high school with people like this who were just really smart and weren't able to to recognize the power of their own intellect.
• 11:25
  Right? She just sort of feels like when she hits some awareness of some some new clue that comes together for her, she just sort of tripped on it because she's super, super smart, but doesn't yet know how know that she she's going to be jaded one day. Right? And I think that's that's fascinating. She's underestimated around every corner, even by Crawford, who was using her to get something out of Lecter and didn't tell her he was using her.
• 11:54
  And that starts the whole journey of them as as sort of buddies.
• 11:59
  Pete Wright: He does that a few times because there's that moment. And then again, the moment when they're in the funeral home, and he uses her to as he says later, you know, he recognizes that it burned her, but he's just like, you know, you gotta treat these people this way where, you know, I had to kind of do that so we could get in. And she's like, it matters. And I think that's the key. Yeah.
• 12:21
  That that these people look up to him, and he has to recognize that he can't do things like that just because he thinks it'll be an easy in.
• 12:29
  Andy Nelson: Right. Then that's that's an example of how Foster plays this character as vulnerable, but never weak. Right? Like, that she's willing to sort of speak truth to power, that she's she's written as a character who is totally capable of turning around and saying, you know what? After that experience, you were wrong.
• 12:47
  You were wrong, and you need to know why you were wrong. And that she she did not shy away from that, I think, is is important.
• 12:54
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It's and it's interesting because, I mean, it's the same character we had in the last film, different actor. But if there's any sense of frustration, it's the lack of continuity between these two films. Obviously, we have Lecter as kind of a totally different actor playing it in totally different way. But also, Crawford is a much more prominent role here than I mean, Dennis Arena, you could argue, was pretty important as a character in Manhunter.
• 13:23
  But here, he is, like, such a key part of the film, and it does make you wonder if there was if there was any sense of kind of journey for him as a character because you really don't get that sense at all. Like, he just pretty much seems like you're kind of typical boss in both films.
• 13:42
  Andy Nelson: Well, sort of. So here's here's where I think I I feel that difference. In Farina, we get a guy who came to Graham because he was somehow helpless. He felt like, I'm never gonna be able to solve this crime without you and that special thing that you bring, William Peterson. You are the unique and special gem that is going to unlock this entire case for us.
• 14:09
  He comes with a sense of, like, helplessness, sort of earned helplessness that he's he's and that's that's a trope. Like, that's a thing. We have to get to set up our protagonist. I don't get that sense from Scott Glenn. Scott Glenn is, I feel, like, in control of the case and the investigation and used Clarisse as a tool, as a part of that investigation.
• 14:35
  The fact that we're focused on her and her relationship with Lecter, I don't think diminishes the fact that whenever we see Glenn, he's doing the work of the investigation. He drags her along as he realizes she is, you know, increasingly capable, but I don't get the feeling that he feels like this investigation is out of control, out of his control. I think that's a difference in how they how they play it, Farina and and Glenn.
• 15:02
  Pete Wright: I guess what I'm looking for is, like, is there a sense of his character growth over the films? And it's hard because it's different actors playing him. And at the same time, it's like it's like you're asking a supporting like a prominent supporting character across a franchise to like, are they gonna get growth? Like, are we seeing that in, like, the boss, in, like, the Lethal Weapon series or something like that? Probably not there either.
• 15:27
  And so it's it might be an unfair question to ask, but it does make me curious, like and, I mean, you've seen the other films. I I'm pretty sure this is the last one with with Crawford in it. Right?
• 15:38
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. It I I wanna go back to a question. You're you're right. The the question that I have for you, though, is are we to presume were we ever to presume that Michael Mann's Manhunter was the first and that Silence of the Lambs was supposed to be a sequel?
• 15:57
  Pete Wright: Only in the sense that they're based on the same series by the author, and Hannibal Lecter is featured in both of them. Jack Crawford is featured in both of them. It it seems to me like a continuing thread. At the time the movie came out, it's not like they pitched it as a sequel. And and perhaps that's largely because the movie didn't do well at the box office, and also a different studio had control over this property as opposed to the previous one.
• 16:26
  If Dina De Laurentiis had actually had the rights to Silence of the Lambs, maybe there would have seemed like more of a kind of a sequel, happening here. But the way that it happened, I just don't think that they intended that.
• 16:41
  Andy Nelson: I I I feel like I'm out of time watching these movies. Because for me, when I saw Silence of the Lambs, it was the only thing that existed. I knew that Manhunter was a thing long after. I had seen silence of the lambs like it was it was not present for me. And that's why it seems to me in hindsight that silence of the lambs was more of a do over.
• 17:01
  It was a clean slate sort of do over, and it's just a it it just never felt like it was intended to be a thing where we would see narrative growth over the course of of the arc of individual characters because they aren't related.
• 17:17
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I just really wanted to see Frankie Faison's lieutenant from the first one. I just wanted to get a sense of his journey to suddenly now we know where he quit that force and joined up with the FBI so that he Became a candy striper. Yeah. Oh my goodness.
• 17:34
  Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. It's interesting. So this movie, I think it's it's such a strong story, and it really plays with the psychology of Clarisse quite a bit.
• 17:45
  Obviously, the title of the film is really, the idea of that comes in the conversation between Lecter and her about the slaughtering of the lambs that she heard the the awful noise and the reason that she ran away from her aunts and uncles when they were taking care of her after her dad died. So we get this this sense of her backstory, but also we're getting kind of this real psychological story about this serial serial killer, Buffalo Bill, who is going around killing women at seeming random, but we're also kind of getting a psychological psychological exploration of who he is and why he is killing these women. And I think that's an interesting aspect. And I'm trying to think, like mean, we definitely get kind of the psychology of Will Graham trying to get into the head of the tooth fairy, Francis Dollarhide in Manhunter so that he can stop him. But I feel like that psychology is like, you know, you just wanna play God and that's kind of it's kind of a big broad psychology in the scope of things.
• 18:49
  Whereas here, I think it's a more interesting psychology looking at this this person who isn't really, as we as Lecter tells us, isn't really transsexual, but is somebody who wants to transform. Clearly doesn't seem to like themselves and wants to change, and so has decided he's gonna kill women and make a woman suit. And that's kind of where we are with this story. And it's it's kind of a dark psychology, but that's another element that I think works so well in this one is we are getting that kind of psychological exploration a little deeper, I would say, of Buffalo Bill on this one.
• 19:24
  Andy Nelson: Well, and isn't it interesting? Just one more thing that we didn't cover in our, you know, similarities of these two stories is that the the motivation of our principal antagonist is transformation. Right? That one is evolving from this cocoon into a massive creature of death, and the other is emerging into some beautiful some image of beauty as in the the butterfly, and and the fascination with the cocoon transformation in both of these films, I think, is another testament to Thomas Harris exploring these themes in a way that it just feels like he wasn't finished in in red dragon. So I think you're absolutely right.
• 20:05
  And this gets into sort of the controversial thinking about the film and the fact that is is the film inherently transphobic? Is the film transphobic? Recognizing, of course, the the film and the book were written of a time. The film was made in a time. Do you get the feeling that the film is in itself transphobic?
• 20:26
  Pete Wright: I didn't think so. I've never thought that, but I can certainly see the the frustrations. This kind of goes into a conversation we had another member bonus episode that we had a while back about basic instinct and the frustrations with that film of depicting these lesbians as killers. And here we have a person who is portrayed as perhaps transsexual, who also is a serial killer. And it's like, why can't we have positive depictions of gay characters, of trans characters in film, as opposed to just making them killers?
• 21:00
  And I absolutely can see that point. Now, I I mean, I think in the film, it pretty much states that that Buffalo Bill isn't transsexual, but is just somebody who doesn't like themselves and just thinks that this is gonna work. I mean, as Lecter says, if you talk to all the prominent facilities around the country where they do sexual reassignment surgery, you're gonna find that he's probably applied to more than one and been rejected, probably because he's not actually transsexual. And so the way that the film is made, I think it paints it where it's not you're not kind of getting a a a true, like, transsexual character. That being said, I still think it can make, you know, people who are are trans, who are gay, more uncomfortable because it's like, well, yeah, but they're talking about it a lot, and it's making audiences feel that these people are still more of a deviant and more likely to be a killer than just a normal person.
• 22:03
  So it's it's a tricky line, I think.
• 22:06
  Andy Nelson: It's a tricky line today. Right? Like, I think this is the this is the challenge of watching a movie with today's sort of eyes. And I I don't I don't I mean, I don't have an answer for you know, does the movie's, you know, couple of lines that talk about the, like, he's not transsexual. He's just broken.
• 22:23
  Is that the get out of jail free card for this movie that we're not actually presenting a transphobic ideology through the character of Buffalo Bill? I don't have an answer for that. The truth of of the matter is, in its simplest form, again, read Marcus Aurelius, the simplest thing is that he is a broken human being and exercises his demons through violence. Violence against women in this case, but violence all around. That's the simplest answer for who this guy is, and I don't I don't necessarily think it's there there's a lot of value looking at, you know, trying to suss out ideology in this case because there isn't the immediate threat is he's killing people, and he's doing it for a a reason that is secondary to the act of killing.
• 23:12
  Right? He's just he's just trying to make a suit. He's just a tailor at heart, and he happens to have to go through these bodies to to do that job. And that's the that's the grossness of it. That's why it feels so sort of viscerally, you know, awful when we watch it, and why it's so heroic when she ultimately, you know, wins the day.
• 23:33
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Right. Related to that, I wanna jump to a scene that my wife and I were talking about after watching this again, and it's a scene that I don't think I realized that I had as many questions as I did until we started this conversation. There is a point where Lecter gives Clarisse a clue, like, look into yourself, Clarisse, and she finds out it's this self storage.
• 23:59
  And apparently, Lecter had rented this unit years and years and years ago. But why? And did he do it for Buffalo Bill? I mean, he put the head of Benjamin Rasbale after Buffalo Bill killed him, is what it sounds like, and put it in a jar and stored it there after Rasbale hadn't shown up for three sessions, apparently. And so he went over to his place, found him dead, took his head, put it in a jar.
• 24:34
  Apparently, either Lecter realized that he had put the cocoon into the throat and left it there or or or didn't realize it, but there was that cocoon in the throat that they find later. But so what is going on with this storage unit of lectors? And why is he keeping these things that tie into Buffalo Bill here?
• 24:57
  Andy Nelson: I don't know. I don't I don't know.
• 25:00
  Pete Wright: It's like he collecting serial killer things?
• 25:02
  Andy Nelson: Paraphernalia? Yeah. That that is a I I mean, I think that's a really interesting question. And that that tie, you know, between Lecter and Bill and the fact that they have a a relationship, is is has always been a little bit puzzling to me, and I don't remember how that was handled in the book.
• 25:20
  Pete Wright: I don't either. I don't either. I can't remember. Because we had the same thing, again, going back to similarities in Manhunter, where the Tooth Fairy is, I recall, started writing letters to Lecter while after he'd been captured. I don't think I honestly can't remember if they said it started beforehand.
• 25:39
  I don't know how he would have gotten his address. Serial killers.
• 25:41
  Andy Nelson: There's an address book. There's a little black book.
• 25:43
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Address book. They they it's like a secret address book.
• 25:46
  Andy Nelson: It is. Yeah. It said as soon as you join the club, they send it to you for free. It's it's
• 25:50
  Pete Wright: like grand slam, the movie with all the the hitmen and everything. Like, when you need to do a robbery, you know, they have the the guy pulls down the whole thing and has the whole wall of all the different people. It's the same thing for serial killers. It's like you can, you pull out the direct dealers. Who do I need to get in touch with?
• 26:04
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. And then they send you a tote bag. That's true. Just like AARP.
• 26:12
  Pete Wright: Anyway, that was something that we're just like, I just don't know. I I couldn't piece together the reasons for that that made it logically make sense for me. Like, the the whole thing with that storage unit It's strange. It's a strange one.
• 26:28
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I I'm sure there is more to it in the book. I'm just sure of it. That has to be a thing. That was that was unclear.
• 26:35
  Pete Wright: Now here's another question we have. I don't know if it's a big complaint, but at the time, there there is a big moment of surprise that we get when, when Lecter has been, he's being held in Memphis at that I don't know what sort of room they're in, like a giant conference room or something in this cage in the center and goes through this whole thing of killing the guards. And then we think that he has escaped in the elevator, and then we find out, no. He's actually cut the guy's face off and put it onto himself, and they, and they actually take him out, and he's out in the ambulance, and that's how he breaks free. A very big twist of a surprise that we get the way that plays.
• 27:21
  And then we get a similar one later in the film as as Crawford and all of the feds are raiding at a house around the Chicago area, I believe. And meanwhile, Clarice is back around, Frederica Bimmel's house and and visiting neighbors and ends up at the actual Buffalo Bills' house. But we're intercut, and that's another big switcheroo that we get. A big surprise. Are did they overplay their hand by doing that twice, or is it effective to do it both times?
• 27:56
  Andy Nelson: I are you asking a leading question? Because the way you ask that question, it sounds like you think they have overplayed their hand, and I do not at all. I've seen this movie many times, and I'm still riveted by that doorbell buzzer in Bill's house. Like, that is crazy good editing and pacing and composition. The entire structure of that final sequence, thought was great.
• 28:19
  I guess I can see your point. And if you truly believe that point, I see what is a little bit broken about you. But but for me, it worked very, very well. Alright. Make your case.
• 28:33
  Pete Wright: I don't think I no. I don't think that. It's just a complaint that had been raised at the time the film came out. There were people who said, you know, Jonathan Demi, you know, he he already did that trick once, and then he just goes back to the same wall in the same film and does the same trick a second time, and he could have found a better way to do it. It was just a comment that people had said.
• 28:53
  Andy Nelson: I don't think it's the same trick either. Right? I don't I don't think it's the same trick. I think it's a it the the identity trick is is one thing, but the context is so different because of the level of alert and knowing that, you know, Clarisse, she's she's just digging around getting some extra information. The real story is with is with Crawford and all the lights and sirens and things.
• 29:16
  And I think the subtlety of going into that sequence was was perfect. The fact that we get Bill's upstairs in for the first time, we get to this they reveal the rest of the house in such a beautiful way in this final confrontation that we are as jarred as she is because we've never seen the rest of the house. I just think it all it all works so well. It all works so well. Of course, leading up to the most incredible last, like, thirty seconds where he has the night vision goggles on, and we just get Jodie Foster's fear face, as she's groping in the dark is extraordinary.
• 29:58
  It's just great.
• 30:01
  Pete Wright: No. And I I'm just bringing the point up because it's one that that had been said. But I
• 30:06
  Andy Nelson: But I don't wanna feel the message here. I see.
• 30:08
  Pete Wright: I also agree. Yeah. Don't be like 300 where you're gonna kick me into the pit or anything. I'm just saying it's a thing. I but I also feel that there's enough of a difference between the two sequences where, sure, you get a sense that they're surprising you.
• 30:24
  But I also think it's kind of the point of of this type of film. Right? Thrillers where Yeah. You never really know what's gonna be around the corner. And I think they do a great job of kind of playing the way both of them, you know, even though, I mean, both of them are kind of intercut back and forth between the two different locations.
• 30:40
  I I think they do a great job with that. I have I have a great time watching how it plays. And, yeah, going to the ending of the film, it's fantastic.
• 30:48
  Andy Nelson: It's fantastic. And and by the end, like, even this is one of those movies where even though I know what's coming, I'm still eager to be played. Yeah. You know? I'm still eager to be tricked.
• 31:00
  Pete Wright: That's because they do it's because it's so well done. It's like you're not you're not you're not getting bored by it. It's just, again, you get to jump into that terrifying moment where, you know, and it's and it happens at a perfect moment too because she's already found Catherine in the hole, and that that exchange is so perfect with Brooke Smith just totally yelling at her. It makes me laugh every time I I'm hearing her yelling at Jodie Foster. But then you get to the point where she goes into the creepy bathroom and finds the former homeowner dead in a tub and just clearly for a very long time to the point where she's rotted into just like puddles of ooze and disgusting grossness.
• 31:46
  And that's the moment the lights turn out. It's like the perfect place for it to go completely black.
• 31:53
  Andy Nelson: Oh, it's so good. Well, and Brooke Smith. Can we just say Brooke Smith is great?
• 31:58
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I know. Having just talked about her in series seven, here we are again.
• 32:02
  Andy Nelson: I know. And she's so good at playing this character who is, obviously a kidnapping victim and dealing with trauma. But the fact that she even gets an arc, she gets a power arc where she kidnaps the dog, and she, you know, holds the dog ransom so that she can get out. And she doesn't actually use the lotion, when she is demanded to use the lotion.
• 32:27
  Pete Wright: She does a little bit.
• 32:28
  Andy Nelson: Does a little bit in the beginning, but once once she's into that power arc, she's she foregoes the lotion. And I think the I I think she is she's just really, really good. And out of this whole ordeal, she gets a dog.
• 32:42
  Pete Wright: Did she did she leave with with Precious?
• 32:44
  Andy Nelson: She leaves with the dog. She leaves with Precious.
• 32:46
  Pete Wright: That's so funny. I don't I missed that. I mean, I probably have noticed before, but I wasn't paying attention. That's hilarious.
• 32:52
  Andy Nelson: I think she I think that dog is now she's gonna take it home to her cat. Her cat how I mean, how long in movie time was she there? How many days?
• 33:00
  Pete Wright: It wasn't very long. A couple days.
• 33:03
  Andy Nelson: Probably still alive.
• 33:05
  Pete Wright: Well and, you know, her mom is a senator. She would definitely be having people go to her daughter's place and
• 33:10
  Andy Nelson: Okay. Feed the cat.
• 33:11
  Pete Wright: Take care of her.
• 33:12
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Daughter's kidnapped. Please feed the cat.
• 33:14
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. Someone got the memo.
• 33:19
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Can we can I talk about camera? Because I think this movie has a really interesting thing going on with the camera, and the fact is we spend a lot of time in the relationship between Clarice and doctor Lecter. We spend a lot of time in first person where we are looking at extreme close ups of whoever is speaking, and that is a an incredibly powerful tool for immersion into this relationship, and it is it it gives you a sort of disjointed feeling as we're jumping back and forth between the POV of these two people manipulating one another. And I think it is incredibly powerful and a really strong choice for this movie.
• 34:00
  And it's one of the things that sets this movie, again, up from the the movie we just watched, which is it gives us that experience inside doctor Lecter's eyes, and, it's it totally unique.
• 34:12
  Pete Wright: Well, and it's not just that pairing that we get that too. Like, it happens a lot throughout the film often with Jodie Foster as kind of, I think that I'm trying to remember, like, we're pretty close on the faces of Buffalo Bill and Catherine when he's yelling. And I'm like, are we is it is it just off first person, or was it actually first person? I can't remember exactly.
• 34:36
  Andy Nelson: It's I think it's off first person. I think that that POV is really constrained to Lecter and Clarisse.
• 34:43
  Pete Wright: Not just Lecter because it's but Clarisse, I would say yes. Because we see it when she's talking to Frederica Bimmel's friend when she's asking her, like, what's it like to be an FBI agent? Like, when they're sitting in the cafe toward
• 34:55
  Trailer: the end.
• 34:55
  Pete Wright: We're seeing the first person there. We're seeing it when she's talking to Casey Lemons, or or Delia. We see, like, the two of them in that back and forth. I'm pretty sure we're seeing it with the one of the bug guys when they're having the conversation about like, are you flirting with me?
• 35:11
  Andy Nelson: Are you hitting on me, Doug?
• 35:13
  Trailer: Are you hitting on me?
• 35:13
  Pete Wright: Yes. Like, I I'm pretty sure we're seeing it there. So so it happens a number of times, and it's actually it's pretty interesting that they kind of continue that almost, as you said, something to do with Clarice and her really identifying this film as Clarice's story. Yeah.
• 35:30
  Andy Nelson: It immerses us in her vulnerability in every sequence. You're right. That is that's really illuminating.
• 35:37
  Pete Wright: And that's Tak Fuji Fujimoto. We should talk we should mention Tak Fujiimoto is the cinematographer here. Obviously, has worked with Demi for a very long time. Great cinematographer and does a great job here.
• 35:46
  Andy Nelson: And production design. Right? Production design on this film is just such a level up from industrial chic that, like, Miami industrial chic that we get in Michael Mann, and this becomes gothic. Like, this crazy old asylum castle that they're in the basement of where doctor Lecter is is being held is a fantastic location. Haunting, haunting location to put him.
• 36:14
  Pete Wright: So much better than Manhunters.
• 36:16
  Andy Nelson: Yeah.
• 36:17
  Pete Wright: Like, white art museum
• 36:19
  Trailer: Exactly.
• 36:19
  Pete Wright: For, like yeah. Terrible.
• 36:23
  Andy Nelson: Terrible. Especially by contrast. Yeah. Think this movie just looks so so good.
• 36:29
  Pete Wright: Yeah. We talked about the recurring characters. Obviously, Hannibal Lecter, Jack Crawford, and Frankie Faison, not recurring character, but recurring actor. Anthony Heald oh, Chilton actually is another one. We he was I can't remember who played him in the previous film, but he was in the previous film.
• 36:45
  And Anthony Heald will play him in the next one, at least. I I don't know. I can't remember if he's in Red Dragon, probably. Yeah. I think so.
• 36:55
  So he's gonna continue. And then we have we talked about Scott Glenn. Ted Levine is so good as Buffalo Bill, and it's one of those roles that I can't help but every time I see him in no matter what it is, even like when he's a, you know, working with Al Pacino in heat, it's like, I still first think of him as, Buffalo Bill. You know, it's just such a such one of
• 37:23
  Andy Nelson: those defining roles for Iconic, face. Hard to let him go. You got me on a hunt. Yeah. Anthony Heald plays Chilton in Red Dragon.
• 37:35
  Sorry. I couldn't I couldn't let that go.
• 37:36
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I figured he would've because it happened right after Hannibal, that film. Exactly. Diane Baker is the senator in this, and we talked about her earlier in our season in our member bonus. No.
• 37:46
  It wasn't her member bonus episode. It was in our spoiled rotten twist ending series because she was in now I'm blanking on the name of it, but the axe murder movie with, Joan Crawford.
• 37:57
  Andy Nelson: Oh my goodness. What was that called? She was the daughter.
• 38:04
  Pete Wright: Yeah. It was, straight jacket.
• 38:06
  Andy Nelson: Straight jacket.
• 38:07
  Pete Wright: Good. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So she was so she popped up.
• 38:11
  I mean, Jonathan Demi loves bringing these people in, like, and, of course, Roger Corman is the director of the FBI. Of course, he's gonna pop into the film. Daniel Von Bargain is in here as the SWAT communicator. And of course, Chris Isaac is another regular of, Jonathan Demi's films. Who else are there John Jonathan Demi regulars?
• 38:32
  I feel like he's got a few other ones. Paul Lazar, one of the bug guys. Yeah. He's been in a number of his films.
• 38:39
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I mean, I you know, I mean, the cast is the cast is is fantastic. Right? It's it's just a, I mean, all around perfect ensemble surrounding these two principal characters. The big question for you is, Hannibal Lecter gets sixteen minutes of screen time.
• 38:58
  Pete Wright: I know. I know. Sixteen minutes. Best actor choice.
• 39:03
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I know we're gonna talk about, awards that this film has bagged, but I'm interested in your take on what it takes to be a best
• 39:13
  Pete Wright: actor. It's it's a strange thing, and I don't know if I have the specific answer to it, but it's one of these things where it's like, should he have been placed in best actor, or should he have been placed in supporting actor? Because he is the most prominent male character in the film, you could say, okay, best actor, because, like, well, who else would be the option? But then you have to ask yourself, just because there isn't another prominent male actor, does that mean that he needs to be the the lead? Like, it's it's it's a weird question that they pose.
• 39:46
  And you get into these things where because then you have, again, Kieran Culkin winning supporting actor this year when clearly he was best actor quality. And there's a whole thing of, well, whose story is it? If it's is like going specifically that one a real pain, that story, you could argue, is largely Jesse Eisenberg's story. And everything that Kieran Culkin is doing in that story is kind of influencing Eisenberg's own journey. So you could say actor, supporting actor in that sense.
• 40:23
  But does it boil down to screen time? And and if so, both of those guys should have been considered for actor. Anthony Hopkins, you know, he is in such a small amount of of film for his percent, for for his story. I think that he actually has the smallest amount of screen time percentage wise for an actor who won as, the Oscar for the role. But it's hard to argue the influence, and I think that's what it boils down to.
• 40:52
  Andy Nelson: Right. That which character are you talking about? Which actor are you leaving the film talking about? Right? And and because it's not in this movie, it's not just about his screen time.
• 41:01
  It's about how often is his character mentioned. Right? So we're thinking about Hannibal Lecter constantly through this movie even though we're not actually seeing him, which I think is what makes this a deceptive performance because it feels like he's obvi he must be in this movie longer than sixteen minutes. That is shocking. The other piece is it's hard to just because the way the nominations work, it's hard to to grudge the filmmakers for putting this name in because who else are they gonna put in as a best actor?
• 41:34
  And it's hard to judge the academy for voting for the character that is the most iconic from this film, and arguably most iconic for the decade. Right? Like, it's Hannibal Lecter from this movie has a real staying power, and Hopkins created that.
• 41:54
  Pete Wright: Yeah.
• 41:55
  Andy Nelson: I have a hard time judging that.
• 41:57
  Pete Wright: It's hard to judge, and I'm just checking now because I don't think I saved this for the awards section that we're gonna have here shortly. But, Anthony Hopkins was up against Warren Beatty in Bugsy, Robert De Niro in Cape Fear, Nick Nolte in the prince of tide tides, and Robin Williams in the Fisher King. Robin Williams is another one that you could argue Jeff Bridges was the lead actor in that film. But again, this is that might be more kind of falling into the real pain territory, because both of them have such a large percent that you could say both of them should be in there. But it is it, I don't know.
• 42:32
  Would you pick somebody else over over Hopkins?
• 42:35
  Andy Nelson: I don't think I would.
• 42:36
  Pete Wright: If anyone, I would pick Robin Williams.
• 42:38
  Andy Nelson: That would be the one that's closest
• 42:40
  Pete Wright: Yeah. For me. But Yeah. But it's it's hard to argue that Hopkins doesn't create just such a presence, as you said.
• 42:48
  Andy Nelson: Yeah.
• 42:49
  Pete Wright: It's interesting because, David Niven is the only other actor who has had more or a shorter time on screen for best actor performance. That was separate tables. He had twenty three minutes and thirty nine seconds, and Anthony Hopkins had twenty four minutes and fifty two seconds. I think you said sixteen minutes. But according to Screen Time Central, it's twenty four minutes fifty two seconds.
• 43:07
  Okay. Still, second least amount of time in a film. But as you said, they talk about it a lot, and you walk away talking about him.
• 43:14
  Andy Nelson: For sure. Do we have anything else? Anything else hot on our list before we move forward?
• 43:20
  Pete Wright: Just one one last note that I have. This film was the first one that I had the privilege of checking out at, every year in Boulder at the University of Colorado. They would have the conference on world affairs, which had different leaders from all sorts of fields coming together to have all sorts of interesting conversations on issues of the day. Fantastic, conference that would last I'm pretty sure it would last a week. And Roger Ebert would come every year as one of the panelists and talk on a lot of interesting panels about things.
• 43:56
  But he would also do this thing where he would host a movie watch over the course of a week. And the first day, you would watch the film, and then every day after that, you would watch it just piece by piece. And you would you could shout out like Ebert would stop the film, and he would talk about what you're seeing on screen. Anyone in the audience could say stop, and they they could ask a question or talk about something. And it was this week long conversation about a film, and it was such an interesting experience to go through with Ebert.
• 44:28
  This was the first film that I actually went and did it with, and it was a fantastic conversation over the course of the week to just listen to him and everyone else talking about this film. It's really, really cool.
• 44:40
  Andy Nelson: And this is why you decided you wanted to start a Movie by Minute podcast.
• 44:45
  Pete Wright: You know, there is something to be said about that.
• 44:52
  Andy Nelson: Alright. I feel like we could go on, about the movie, but I feel like we should go on from the movie.
• 44:57
  Pete Wright: Yes. Let's move forward. So we'll be right back, but first, our credits.
• 45:12
  Andy Nelson: The next reel is a production of True Story FM. Engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Alexei Chistalin, Dani Hadani, Maya Belsitzman, Oriole Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at d-numbers.com, box office mojo Com, IMDB Com, and Wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
• 45:51
  Trailer: Good evening, detective. I see you found your way to the next reels merch store, a veritable cornucopia of cinematic delights. Quid pro quo, I'll share with you the secrets of this collection, but first, you must navigate its labyrinthine depths at the next real.com//merch. Amidst the array of designs, you'll find shirts that pay homage to our shared fascinations. From the classic Rusty the European tour shirt from National Lampoon's European Vacation to the Blood Moon Centennial celebration design from Messiah of Evil.
• 46:27
  Each piece tells a unique story. But beware, detective, for once you don these emblematic pieces, you may find yourself drawn deeper into the abyss of cinematic obsession. But the hunt doesn't end there. Hidden within this virtual asylum are designs from our filmmaker filmography series, celebrating the visionary works of legendary directors like Akira Kurosawa, John Carpenter, Sergio Leone, and Stanley Kubrick. You might also find yourself tempted by the packed tech shirt from Real Genius, a totem of technological mischief.
• 47:03
  And the collection extends beyond shirts, detective. A wide array of apparel merchandise awaits your discovery. So tell me, detective, what will it be? Will you succumb to the siren call of these celluloid relics, or will you retreat to the safety of your mundane existence? The choice is yours, but know this, every purchase supports the next real, a beacon of light in the darkness of vapid entertainment.
• 47:28
  I'll be watching from the shadows, eager to see which path you choose. Remember, detective, we covet what we see every day, and what we see here is a collection that demands to be coveted, to be consumed, to become a part of you. Until next time, happy hunting, and do take care. One can never be too careful when delving into the minds of madmen and the art they inspire.
• 47:55
  Andy Nelson: Sequels and remakes, Andy.
• 47:57
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Well, we're certainly talking about it, but you can't have this conversation without mentioning silence, the musical. God. That's right. And, it was a parody unauthorized parody, show that took the book and a lot of different other things and kind of created this whole goofy thing with all of our favorite characters.
• 48:23
  And you have songs like silence. This is it. The right guy. If I could smell her c
• 48:33
  Andy Nelson: word. Oh.
• 48:35
  Pete Wright: There's also Buffalo Bill's song. Are you about a size fourteen? Yeah. This is, it started as an Internet musical that kind of told the entire story, and apparently, it was popular. They've done it on stage a number of times over the years.
• 48:57
  So, yeah, silence the musical. And then, of course, last
• 49:02
  Andy Nelson: I picked this last week. Yeah. Go ahead.
• 49:04
  Pete Wright: You say it. You you talked about it.
• 49:06
  Andy Nelson: Well, I I mean, I did, but this is your bit. I just had to get excited about it.
• 49:10
  Pete Wright: It's the silence of the lambs. This is the film spoof Hams. That we had. The the the silence of the hams. Yeah.
• 49:17
  Did I say the silence of lambs?
• 49:18
  Andy Nelson: You said the silence of the lambs.
• 49:20
  Pete Wright: The silence of the hams. Ezio Greggio's film, a parody that mostly is parodying silence of the lambs, but also psycho. Dom DeLuise, Billy Zane, Joanna Packula, Charlene Tilton, and Martin Balsam all appear. So, yeah, There's that. So there you go.
• 49:39
  Andy Nelson: I like that Martin Balsam is is playing detective Martin Balsam. Right?
• 49:46
  Pete Wright: Oh, so goofy. So goofy.
• 49:48
  Andy Nelson: Mel Brooks is in it. Phyllis Diller. It's a hell of a cast.
• 49:52
  Pete Wright: Lot of people.
• 49:53
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. Alright. Where does that take us from here? After sequels and remakes, it's award season.
• 50:00
  Pete Wright: Very, very popular. 71 wins with 50 other nominations. This was a big one at the Oscars because it won the big five, best picture director, actor, actress, and adapted screenplay. It was actually the third film in Oscar history to win the big five after It Happened One Night and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. It lost best sound to Terminator two Judgment Day and lost best film editing to JFK.
• 50:24
  I can see those. At the Saturn awards, it won best horror film. Hopkins won best actor. Foster lost to Linda Hamilton in Terminator two judgment day. It lost best costumes to the Rocketeer.
• 50:35
  It lost best director to James Cameron. It won best makeup and writing. It lost music to body parts. And then in 2010, it won best DVD collection for the Hannibal Lecter anthology. No, it was nominated, but lost to Star Trek original motion picture collection.
• 50:51
  At the BAFTAs, it lost best film to the commitments. It won best actor and actress. It lost best adapted screenplay that to the commitments. I don't think I realized the commitments was based on something.
• 51:02
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. That's crazy. Interesting. I guess I I guess it was based on a book.
• 51:07
  Pete Wright: I guess so. Or a play.
• 51:08
  Andy Nelson: It could
• 51:09
  Pete Wright: have been a play.
• 51:10
  Andy Nelson: Or an album. It
• 51:12
  Pete Wright: yeah. You sure? It lost best directing and editing also to the commitments. Very big that year. It lost best cinematography and scored a Cirno du Bergerac and best sound to Terminator two.
• 51:22
  And then at the twenty twenty awards, these are always interesting ones because they look at at, what came out. Now granted, it's 20 it it was the twenty twelve twenty twenty awards. Usually, they look at at movies, I think, twenty years in the past, but I'm I think this was their first year, so they just I don't know why they did 1991. But it won best picture, director, actor, actress, adapted screenplay. And then Ted Levine was actually nominated for supporting actor, but lost to John Goodman and Barton Fink.
• 51:54
  Brooke Smith was nominated for supporting actress, but lost to Gina Davis and Thelma Louise. Best film editing and sound design lost to Terminator two. Best original score lost to the commitments, and that's another one. It's like score? I I really remember the songs, but don't remember the score.
• 52:09
  And it lost best cinematography to raise the red lantern, which I can definitely see that one. For sure. So, yeah, an interesting look at at, you know, twenty two years later, twenty one years later.
• 52:19
  Andy Nelson: That's really interesting. Alright. Well, how to do at the box office?
• 52:29
  Pete Wright: Well, for Demi's turn behind the wheel, he had virtually the same budget that Mann did, 19,000,000 or 44,300,000.0 in today's dollars. The movie opened 02/14/1991, for all you lovers out there, on a busy weekend opposite Sleeping with the Enemy, LA Story, The Neverending Story Part two, The Next Chapter, and the limited release of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead. And obviously, it didn't work as counter programming because it started off in thirteenth place. That surprised me. The very next week, though, people realized how great it was and flocked to it, pushing it into the number one spot for the next five weeks.
• 53:02
  It would remain in the top 10 for fourteen weeks, becoming the fifth highest grossing film of the year. In the end, it earned a hundred 30,700,000.0 domestically and a hundred 45 internationally for a total gross of 642,500,000.0 in today's dollars. That lands the film with an adjusted profit per finished minute of just over 5,000,000, proving Hannibal has it within him to slay at the Fox Office.
• 53:25
  Andy Nelson: You I mean I
• 53:27
  Trailer: know. I know.
• 53:28
  Andy Nelson: That's a real onion to unpack, your choice of doing that. Well, I love this movie. I love the way it it it sort of interprets for us what a strong female protagonist can be, how nuanced and and vulnerable and powerful that character can be. And, obviously, I think Lecter's, oof, Lecter's legacy, the big l l is strong with this one.
• 53:58
  Pete Wright: Yes. The force is strong with this one.
• 54:00
  Andy Nelson: We'll see if it holds up.
• 54:01
  Pete Wright: We will because we got two more films with him.
• 54:03
  Andy Nelson: Yeah.
• 54:04
  Pete Wright: I love it. It's a great film. So can't wait to keep watching this franchise. So we'll be right back for our ratings. But first, here's the trailer for next week's movie, Ridley Scott's two thousand and one film, Hannibal.
• 54:19
  Trailer: The person I am looking for is quite well known. He's killed 14 people that we know of. You ever think he might come after you? At least thirty seconds of every day. Hello?
• 54:45
  Is this Clarice? Oh, hello, Clarice. I have been in a state of hibernation. I need some action, Clarice. I need to come out of retirement and return to public life.
• 55:01
  I couldn't help noticing on the FBI's rather dull public website that I have been elevated to the more prestigious 10 most wanted list. Is this coincidence, or are you back on the case? If so, goody goody. I have information about Uncle
• 55:19
  Andy Nelson: Lecter. Fantastic.
• 55:23
  Trailer: You're trying to catch him yourself, aren't you? He killed three policemen while in custody. Turn the face off one of them, and he will kill you too. Are you by any chance trying to trace my whereabouts? You naughty girl.
• 55:59
  I must confess to you. I'm giving very serious thought to eating your wife.
• 56:26
  Andy Nelson: Agent, listen up. We've been
• 56:28
  Pete Wright: tracking a highly classified operation, something big, a network of film experts, cultural investigators operating under the code name, the next real family film podcast. This isn't just casual movie talk. These are analysts pulling apart films with surgical precision, uncovering hidden meanings, exposing unseen connections, and bringing you intelligence you won't find anywhere else. And now we've got an opportunity to get you on
• 56:51
  Andy Nelson: the inside, but you need to act fast.
• 56:54
  Pete Wright: You choose to accept this mission, here's what you'll You'll be brought in early with access to episodes before the public can even hear them. You'll receive classified bonus recordings, deeper intel, doesn't make the regular files. Some of this content is too sensitive for ad interruptions, you'll get ad free versions of select episodes, and that's just the beginning. We'll set you up with your own encrypted podcast feed, a direct line to the operation, no interference. There's also a secured Discord channel where you'll gain access to exclusive briefings and livestream recording sessions.
• 57:25
  You'll be in the room hearing it as it happens. This is a need to know information, and you, you need to know. So the question is, are you in? Go to truestory.fm/join now. Secure your access.
• 57:43
  And remember, the best agents never work alone.
• 57:49
  Andy Nelson: Letterbox Dandy. That's where we pick the stars and bars for this particular film, and I wanna know what you're gonna do. Where are gonna put it?
• 57:58
  Pete Wright: Oh, it's always been a five star and a heart film for me. Straight up. Just a perfect film.
• 58:03
  Andy Nelson: So No question. Five star and a heart.
• 58:06
  Pete Wright: Well, I'm curious, especially now that you have done the full franchise, how you're allocating those 15 total stars that you decided last week is all you're gonna give this whole series.
• 58:16
  Andy Nelson: You know what? It turns
• 58:18
  Pete Wright: down nine.
• 58:19
  Andy Nelson: Well, okay. So what we nine. Okay. Let me just say, you reminding me of that is you would think problematic, but we what we have ahead of us, Hannibal, Red Dragon
• 58:33
  Pete Wright: And Hannibal rising. And Hannibal rising.
• 58:35
  Andy Nelson: Right. Hannibal rising. And so I have six stars left. I I think I'm gonna be okay. Okay.
• 58:47
  Pete Wright: Not as hard as it turns out, I guess.
• 58:49
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. No. It turns out, it's okay. So I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna be fine.
• 58:54
  Pete Wright: Perfect. Perfect. Hey. One last thing before we wrap this up that is worth just a quick discussion is the end of the film because that is another section of the film that people compared it to hunt for an October, which came out right a year before this, as an ending that felt tacked on. Like, you know, you've got Anthony Hopkins in that weird blonde, wig that he's got, kind of hunting Chilton down in in The Bahamas.
• 59:24
  What do think?
• 59:25
  Andy Nelson: I I think it's perfect. Tacked on? No. No. Okay.
• 59:30
  Not at all. I I actually feel like it it makes total sense because he got away, because Chilton's a jerk and needs a comeuppance, because of so so many things. And that last line. Right? I'm having a friend for dinner is extraordinarily good.
• 59:48
  Pete Wright: Well, okay. Here's a question. Do you think Chilton is there my wife and I, we're talking about this. Like, is he there on the run? Does he know that Lecter would probably come for him?
• 59:56
  And so he's like, fleeing the country? Because he like me it's like he goes it it I was like, is he there for work? I mean, he's he runs a prison. I don't know why he would be going to The Bahamas to meet somebody for work. But it's not like he seems vacation.
• 1:00:10
  He seems like he's specifically meeting a guy.
• 1:00:13
  Andy Nelson: Could he just be on vacation? Maybe a conference? He could be.
• 1:00:17
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I mean, there's there are reasons, I guess, the conference of of prison wardens. Right. But The The Bahamas. I don't know.
• 1:00:27
  Trailer: It was
• 1:00:28
  Pete Wright: just one of those things. I don't I've never really been bothered by the ending, but I know that is another point that people bring up about this film.
• 1:00:34
  Andy Nelson: Man, I just don't I just don't share that problem. Okay. I am I and I'm really I'm legit looking forward to next week.
• 1:00:43
  Pete Wright: Well, going back to Letterboxd, that was a round out to five stars from both of us, which you'll find over at our account at the next reel. You can find me there at soda creek film. You can find Pete there at pete wright. So what did you think about The Silence of the Lambs? We would love to hear your thoughts.
• 1:00:59
  Hop into the Show Talk channel over in our Discord community, where we will be talking about the movie this week.
• 1:01:04
  Andy Nelson: When the movie ends. Our conversation begins.
• 1:01:22
  Pete Wright: Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As letterbox always doeth.
• 1:01:26
  Andy Nelson: Okay. I my first one's
• 1:01:27
  Pete Wright: a thought experiment. I need you to help
• 1:01:29
  Andy Nelson: me parse it. Can we do this?
• 1:01:30
  Pete Wright: Okay. I'm looking forward to that.
• 1:01:32
  Pete Wright: It's a half star and a
• 1:01:33
  Andy Nelson: heart from Luke Nissi. The first four lines are in italics like a poem. I just want you to love me. I just wanted to know, parentheses, change myself. Fix it all, Jonathan Demi.
• 1:01:50
  Beauty resides where your spirit dwells. So poem. And then, wanted to revisit this one of on my last day of being a teenager, famously my least favorite film. Both an excellent movie, I'll admit it, and a confoundingly boring one, unscandalizing. Though I suppose monster stories tend to be less effective in scaring monsters.
• 1:02:15
  Happy to report, this is in fact one of my favorite films, mostly because I realized I can't detach myself from its imagery. But I won't change the rating because I'm a stubborn son of a bitch. I don't wanna analyze this one at all, to be honest. It's all been said, and it makes me miserable. Put your head back.
• 1:02:33
  Close your eyes. Wade into the quiet of the stream.
• 1:02:38
  Trailer: Wow. Okay.
• 1:02:39
  Andy Nelson: So do we like the film?
• 1:02:40
  Pete Wright: Yeah. I feel like they used to not like the film and gave it a low rating, but then decided that they actually like it Yeah. But weren't gonna change the rating.
• 1:02:50
  Andy Nelson: And use it as sort of a meditation?
• 1:02:53
  Pete Wright: Maybe. Yeah. What a weird film to use as a meditation.
• 1:02:56
  Andy Nelson: What an interesting thing.
• 1:02:59
  Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Alright.
• 1:03:00
  Andy Nelson: What do you got?
• 1:03:02
  Pete Wright: I have a three and a half by Summer York who says this. When I was 15, I used to walk to my friend Johanna's house every day after school, and we used to eat Papa Doms and watch this five days a week for about six months. I can't, for the life of me, remember why we never felt like watching anything else. It is pretty good, I guess.
• 1:03:24
  Andy Nelson: Once you get to the point where you've memorized it, I don't know. What's the movie right now off the dome you can think of that you've practically memorized?
• 1:03:35
  Pete Wright: Raiders of the Lost Ark.
• 1:03:37
  Andy Nelson: Yeah. I guess that's probably up there. I can't pick that one. Maybe Hudson Hawk.
• 1:03:43
  Pete Wright: Yeah. For you. Sure. Yeah. Thanks, Letterboxd.