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BOYFRIEND CLAIMS MURDER WAS REALLY JUST ROUGH SEX · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A boyfriend claims murder was
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Speaker 1: really just rough sex. That's the defense. This after bounty
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Speaker 1: hunters and US marshals chase this guy McLeod all the
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Speaker 1: way around the world after he murders a beautiful young mom.
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Speaker 1: Now he tells me it was quote rough sex, sex
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Speaker 1: gone wrong. Really A little girl is left without her
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Speaker 1: mother because of sex gone wrong. I'm Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: A gorgeous thirty year old is excited to travel to
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Speaker 2: San Diego with her new boyfriend. Little did she know
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Speaker 2: that would be her final trick.
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Speaker 1: Christa was a visitor in San Diego. She loves San Diego.
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Speaker 3: And she came here frequently from Phoenix, and her last
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Speaker 3: word about San Diego was, Mom, I'm going to move there.
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Speaker 3: She didn't know she was going to be killed here,
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Speaker 3: and so I have so many memories of her coming
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Speaker 3: to San Diego. I have a lot of things hanging
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Speaker 3: in my house and cuts and stuff.
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Speaker 1: Because she loves Santiego. She was a lovely mother.
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Speaker 3: She was beautiful evenside out, she was beautiful, and she
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Speaker 3: was a single mom. Unsuspecting of this man who She
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Speaker 3: was a property manager and this man came by to
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Speaker 3: get an apartment, and that's how they met. He came
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Speaker 3: across as a doting dad. And that's one thing she
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Speaker 3: said was he loves his son.
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Speaker 1: He absolutely loves his son.
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Speaker 3: And that was a quality that every single mom out
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Speaker 3: there will look for, is a man who loves his child.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing Crystal's mother who is left with nothing
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Speaker 1: but memories of her. And now this purp says it
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Speaker 1: was sex gone wrong. Have you ever heard anything more
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Speaker 1: disrespectful to a crime victim than it was sex gone wrong?
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Speaker 1: Can I tell you something about Crystal's mother, Josephine. She
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Speaker 1: devotes her life trying to track this purp down all
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Speaker 1: around the world, trying to find him. With me right
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Speaker 1: now is Crystal's mother Josephine Winsol, former police detective and
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Speaker 1: now author of two books, one of them The Chase
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Speaker 1: in Hot Pursuit of My Daughter's Killer and The Capture
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Speaker 1: Six Year Hot Pursuit ends six years. She chased him,
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Speaker 1: only for him to land in court and claim it
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Speaker 1: was sex gone wrong. I've never heard anything so repulsive
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Speaker 1: and disrespectful in my life. Josephine also in her grief,
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Speaker 1: created angelsof Justice dot Org to help other people. That's
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Speaker 1: who she is, Josephine. I'm going to backtrack through finding
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Speaker 1: this guy tracking him down. But what is happening right now?
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Speaker 1: When did you first hear the words sex gone wrong?
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Speaker 4: Actually, when the prosecutor had warned me about it and
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Speaker 4: said that was going to be their defense, and I
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Speaker 4: wasn't exactly sure how it was going to come out
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Speaker 4: in court, and so really that's when I've heard it
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Speaker 4: was when Lee went to court last week.
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Speaker 1: Also joining me, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of
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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, star of a hit series
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Speaker 1: Zone seven. I haven't heard this as a legitimate Well,
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Speaker 1: it's not legitimate, but advanced as if it were a
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Speaker 1: legitimate defense. Since Robert Chambers, the so called preppy killer.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember that case where he raped and murdered
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Speaker 1: a girl and actually argued it was her fault that
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Speaker 1: she wanted to quote rough sex. Do you recall that?
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Speaker 5: Oh?
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Speaker 6: Absolutely, So he cannot explain the level of injury to
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Speaker 6: that victim, She cannot explain the rape, so he has
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Speaker 6: to say, well, yeah, I had sex with her. That's
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Speaker 6: why the evidence was there and she wanted it rough.
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Speaker 6: That's why there's injury to her throat. That's what he
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Speaker 6: claimed happened in a public part.
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Speaker 1: Now we always say the preppy killer, Robert Chambers. The
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Speaker 1: victim's name was Jennifer Levin. I'm curious because won't you
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Speaker 1: agree with me, Cheryl, that we always talk about him
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Speaker 1: Robert Chambers. Nobody even remembers the victim's name.
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Speaker 6: We do that, but I also think it's important to
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Speaker 6: repeat his name so that other people are aware of
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Speaker 6: this person, so they also know to come forward. Perhaps
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Speaker 6: they were a victim as well. So again in this case,
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Speaker 6: I think it's important to keep naming him, keep showing
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Speaker 6: his photograph.
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Speaker 3: Everything was right about him. He was stable, he was
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Speaker 3: a US Marine. Crystal's sister is a US Marine. There
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Speaker 3: was nothing to alert her that he was a terrible person.
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Speaker 3: And so when she came out here, and I remember
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Speaker 3: that night when I got that phone call, I mean.
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Speaker 1: This is you know.
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Speaker 3: I've been on the side where I had to give
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Speaker 3: the message to parents sometimes I didn't want to get
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Speaker 3: the message that their child has been murdered.
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Speaker 1: And I'm on this side, and I received that message
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Speaker 1: that night Josephine, When did you learn that something horrible
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Speaker 1: had happened?
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Speaker 4: It was that day when I woke up that morning
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Speaker 4: and I knew that something felt wrong and I wasn't
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Speaker 4: sure what it was. And when I tried to reach her,
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Speaker 4: you know, because her kids were with me, she wasn't
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Speaker 4: responding at all, And that's when I started feeling like
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Speaker 4: something was wrong, because there's no way she wouldn't have
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Speaker 4: to responded, especially with her kids being here. She would
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Speaker 4: be always checking in on them. So I knew that
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Speaker 4: something was wrong. And we had gotten the phone call
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Speaker 4: that evening when my husband kept trying to reach her,
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Speaker 4: texting her telling her, call your mom, she's freaking out here.
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Speaker 4: She's not hearing from you. And that's when the phone
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Speaker 4: call came in from the detective who was investigating the
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Speaker 4: scene at the moment, and then he saw the calls
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Speaker 4: were coming in, so he took time off to return
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Speaker 4: the call and told my husband that she was dead.
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Speaker 1: So at this time, both of her children were with you,
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Speaker 1: and when she did not call to check in on them,
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Speaker 1: you knew something was wrong. When you got the message,
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Speaker 1: What did you do?
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Speaker 4: I just screamed, I covered my ears.
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Speaker 7: And I don't know why I covered my ears, but
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Speaker 7: I covered my ears, and I just kept screaming and
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Speaker 7: screaming and screaming, dropped to the floor and screaming, and
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Speaker 7: you know, my sister kept saying, call the ambulance because
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Speaker 7: I just couldn't breathe.
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Speaker 1: I was just so great, a mom of two beautiful children.
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Speaker 1: Why did she have to die? She checked the guy out,
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Speaker 1: She ran a credit report on him. She thought he
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Speaker 1: could be the one. But what she didn't know was this.
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Speaker 8: McCloud had prior violence against two of his previous wives.
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Speaker 8: He had a bending twenty sixteen Faladi case and riverside
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Speaker 8: for strangling one of his wives. A roommate interrupted the
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Speaker 8: woman being strangled. That's set the scene for what would
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Speaker 8: be a deadly trip to San Diego, California.
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Speaker 1: This is the alleged killer who is now claiming that
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Speaker 1: it was simply sex gone wrong, like that's some kind
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Speaker 1: of a defense. Joining me an all star panel to
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Speaker 1: make sense of what we are learning right now. In
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Speaker 1: addition to Crystal's mother, Josephine Winsel, who has dedicated her
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Speaker 1: life to tracking this guy down all the way around
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Speaker 1: the world, Cyril McCollum founder director Cold Case Research Institute.
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Speaker 1: Joining me now is Lauren Conlin, investigative reporter and co
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Speaker 1: host of Primetime Crime on YouTube and at Popcrime Dot TV. Lauren,
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Speaker 1: What happened? Nancy?
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Speaker 9: Crystal Mitchell and Raymond McLeod were visiting a friend of
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Speaker 9: his in San Diego, California, and on the night of
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Speaker 9: June tenth, twenty sixteen, they decide that they want to
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Speaker 9: go out to a bar after their friends.
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Speaker 4: Go to sleep.
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Speaker 1: At the bar that night.
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Speaker 9: Raymond McLeod gets into an argument with another ex marine
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Speaker 9: at the bar.
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Speaker 1: It turns out.
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Speaker 9: After allegedly the marine saw Raymond McLeod raise a hand
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Speaker 9: to Crystal. Now, at this point, the two men get
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Speaker 9: into an altercation and they are all three kicked out
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Speaker 9: of the bar. Crystal Mitchell and Raymond McLeod go home
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Speaker 9: back to the Allied Gardens apartment complex and there captured
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Speaker 9: on surveillance footage is Raymond McLeod shoving Crystal Mitchell into
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Speaker 9: the elevator.
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Speaker 6: By the throat.
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Speaker 9: Now, that night, the friend of Raymond MacLeod, his wife,
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Speaker 9: heard Crystal yell, She heard a scream, and then she
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Speaker 9: heard silence.
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Speaker 1: He's got hands like two Virginia Hams. Can you imagine
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Speaker 1: him heating Crystal in public at a bar. If he
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Speaker 1: would do that to her in public, what would he
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Speaker 1: do to her behind closed doors? Listen to what San
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Speaker 1: Diego District Attorney Summer Stephan has to say. In nine
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Speaker 1: to one.
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Speaker 10: One call brought police to an apartment in Allied Garden,
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Speaker 10: San Diego, where Crystal's body was found. There were clear
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Speaker 10: signs of a struggle and Crystal had numerous injuries. There
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Speaker 10: was bluntfours trauma, including to her face and torso. McLoud
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Speaker 10: had brutally strangled stole to death, choking the very life
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Speaker 10: out of her. There were multiple fractures to her neck area.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 3: The children were staying with us on vacation when that happened.
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Speaker 3: And that morning I woke up and I knew there
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Speaker 3: was something wrong. I felt there was something wrong, and
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Speaker 3: I wasn't sure what it was. And when we reached
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Speaker 3: out and tried to speak with her, she never responded.
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Speaker 3: And then it was that call that night. But I'm
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Speaker 3: just appealing to the public. I mean, we have America's
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Speaker 3: best behind me, we have one of the greatest team
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Speaker 3: there is, but sometimes best is not good enough. Sometimes
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Speaker 3: we just need more. And I'm appealing to the public.
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Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier, this guy's hands looked like
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Speaker 1: to Virginia Ham's. Is this guy on steroids? Josephine winsl Yes,
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Speaker 1: he was.
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Speaker 4: He was on steroids, and that night he was wearing
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Speaker 4: a lot of big rings on his fingers, according to witness.
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Speaker 1: Which would make any blow to her worst. I want
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Speaker 1: to talk about his steroid use, which is obvious to
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Speaker 1: everybody that sees him. Joining me, doctor pre Advantage Board
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Speaker 1: Certified Forensic Pathologist, an atomic Pathologists at Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting,
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Speaker 1: Doctor pre Avantergy, thank you for being with us. What
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Speaker 1: are steroids and what do they do to your body?
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Speaker 11: We're talking about anabolic steroids or steroids two that are abuse,
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Speaker 11: so illegal steroids. These are drugs that mimic testosterone and
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Speaker 11: really give you that beefed up look that he's achieved.
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Speaker 11: This is not what normal hormones do for you.
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Speaker 4: So he's you know, juicing.
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Speaker 11: We've heard various lay terms for it.
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Speaker 1: But what they do is they also cause rage.
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Speaker 11: This is much higher level of testosterone like hormones in
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Speaker 11: the body, and so that's what we see.
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Speaker 4: We see not.
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Speaker 11: Only the bulked up muscles, but there's many many side effects,
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Speaker 11: including a lot of anger.
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Speaker 4: You hear it called roid range.
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Speaker 1: But what does it do to your internal organs like
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Speaker 1: your heart? I mean, because we always hear of people
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Speaker 1: dying at early ages body builders and similar professions. They
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Speaker 1: keel over, what does it do to you?
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Speaker 11: So having this elevated testosterone accelerates heart disease. They're pumping iron,
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Speaker 11: so they're pushing their body to the like extreme limits
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Speaker 11: against stressing the heart. They can get liver cancer, and honestly,
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Speaker 11: there's a sort of reflexive change where your testical shrink,
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Speaker 11: so oftentimes they can't get an erection or have normal
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Speaker 11: sexual function because the body saying, hey, I have too
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Speaker 11: much of this hormone, so the don't produce it.
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Speaker 1: Is it worth it to have all that? But your testicles,
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Speaker 1: your bald shrink and you can't get an erection, but
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Speaker 1: you've got some really serious biceps. That's the trade off.
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Speaker 11: That's the trade off. That's the medical You know, your
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Speaker 11: body's trying to regulate it and your pump you're juice
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Speaker 11: and you're pumping it full.
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Speaker 1: Of nobody sees a problem with that. But me, am
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Speaker 1: I the crazy one in this scenario because I don't
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Speaker 1: think so, hold on, doctor Pria is a forensic pathologist.
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Speaker 1: I definitely need a shrink right now. Doctor Marlena Ribra
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Speaker 1: Riba is joining us clinical Psychologists, research consultant at Doctor
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Speaker 1: Long and Associates. Doctor Riba, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: I'm hearing from doctor Priya what overloads of synthetic testosterone
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Speaker 1: does to your body? But what does it do to
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Speaker 1: your psyche? And Eric Fattus high profile defense you're joining me.
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Speaker 1: You just piped down because this is not a defense.
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Speaker 1: Roid rage is just like voluntary use of drugs are alcohol.
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Speaker 1: It's not a defense under the law. So don't tune
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Speaker 1: up with me, because I know where your brain is
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Speaker 1: headed right now, Doctor Marlena, explain to me what this
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Speaker 1: does to your psyche.
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Speaker 12: So I think there are two things to sort of
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Speaker 12: keep in mind here. One is that we already know
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Speaker 12: that he has sort of a pattern of behavior that
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Speaker 12: would already put him at risk. So you know we
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Speaker 12: have these.
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Speaker 1: History of alcohol youth. What did you say put him
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Speaker 1: at risk? Why is he at risk? He's gobbling steroids
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Speaker 1: on his own. I'm not making him do that. It's
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Speaker 1: and her children that are at risk.
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Speaker 12: Absolutely know, You're absolutely correct. I mean in terms of
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Speaker 12: at risk, in terms of being more of a threat,
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Speaker 12: is what I mean. Right, So he's already got these risks, okay,
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Speaker 12: actors of you know there's alcohol involved. He's already demonstrated
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Speaker 12: poor impulse control. So if you take these things, aside
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Speaker 12: from just using the steroids, that's already kind of putting
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Speaker 12: him in a position where he would be more of
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Speaker 12: a danger to his partners.
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Speaker 1: And probably okay, steroids, Hold on just a moment, I
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Speaker 1: haven't thought of that toxic cocktail. Doctor Marlena Riba to
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Speaker 1: doctor Priy of energy in a nutshell, What does that
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Speaker 1: mean when you are ingesting? Oh, dear gravy, are you
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Speaker 1: showing that just to incite me? Oh? With the big
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Speaker 1: cigar and the gun and the muscles? You know, doctor Preya,
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Speaker 1: what happens when you mix alcohol and steroids anything?
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Speaker 11: Well, we know alcohol lowers inhibitions, right, and he is
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Speaker 11: a raging maniac basically, right, So you have these hormones
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Speaker 11: that are raging, he has poor impulse control. Now the
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Speaker 11: alcohol just basically opens the lid to being completely uncontrolled
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Speaker 11: and that's why he acts out so horribly. And again,
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Speaker 11: as the psychologist said, he's already there, right, He's abused
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Speaker 11: many women in the past, and thank god.
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Speaker 1: You know what on what you're saying to Josephine Winsel,
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Speaker 1: this is Crystal's mom, Josephine, prior violence against two previous wives,
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Speaker 1: and your daughter, this fantastic mom working hard at the
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Speaker 1: apartment complex, raising her children. Absolutely stunning. She looks like
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Speaker 1: a cover girl for Pete's sake. How she's supposed to
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Speaker 1: know he has prior violence claims against two previous wives,
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Speaker 1: appending felony for strangling one of the wives, and long
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Speaker 1: story short, she runs him. She doesn't see any of
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Speaker 1: that on his record. No idea he's doing steroids, no
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Speaker 1: idea at all. It's like leading the lamb to the slaughter.
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Speaker 4: Yes, and she was also running from somebody who was
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Speaker 4: stalking her, an ex that was, you know, she broke
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Speaker 4: up with like six months prior, that was stalking her.
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Speaker 4: So he chased her right into the lion.
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Speaker 1: You know what's upsetting Cheryl McCollum. When I look at Crystal,
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Speaker 1: it reminds me the same thing I saw over and
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Speaker 1: over when prosecuting cases and investigating them. There's a picture
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Speaker 1: for him her. She's just a little bit of girl, Cheryl.
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Speaker 1: Why is it that these people in life that are
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Speaker 1: so pure of heart and innocent they are mistreated so badly?
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Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder, Cheryl, when we're out working a
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Speaker 1: case at four o'clock in the morning, why is it
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Speaker 1: that it seems to always be the good people, the
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Speaker 1: pure people, the innocent people that get tortured and crept
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Speaker 1: on by predators like McLeod.
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Speaker 6: And I think that's the word predator, because again, Nancy,
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Speaker 6: here's something that bothered me when I first heard it.
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Speaker 6: The blood trail that goes from the apartment to the elevator.
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Speaker 6: That is proof positive that he never even rendered aid.
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Speaker 6: He lived so quickly he didn't even clean up. He
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Speaker 6: left driven her blood off of him to escape. And
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Speaker 6: this is somebody he supposedly cared about.
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Speaker 10: He's believed to be on the run in Central America
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Speaker 10: or Mexico. His last reported location was in Guatemala a
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Speaker 10: a year ago, but he has also been spotted in
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Speaker 10: Belize and in Mexico. McLeod has been able to hide
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Speaker 10: until now. But we're not going to let this scoward
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Speaker 10: run from justice and get away with murder. Make no mistake,
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Speaker 10: we are on a hunt for justice and we need
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Speaker 10: your help.
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Speaker 1: You are hearing the San Diego District Attorney speaking that summer, Stephen.
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Speaker 1: The search for this guy McLeod took years, and now
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Speaker 1: he's sitting in a courtroom facing Lady Justice. His defense. Oh,
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Speaker 1: she wanted it. It was rough sex gone wrong. That's
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Speaker 1: the defense joining me in all star panel, including Crystal's mother.
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Speaker 1: Right now, she's raising Crystal's two children. She comes out
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Speaker 1: of retirement former LA law enforcement and devotes her life
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Speaker 1: to tracking down Crystal's killer. To Josephine Winzel, when did
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Speaker 1: you learn that McLeod, the man you believe murdered your daughter,
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Speaker 1: had gone on the run.
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Speaker 4: It was a couple of days after he ran.
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Speaker 1: Did you have any idea where he may have gone?
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Speaker 4: Well, I was still was He went to Mexico, and
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Speaker 4: I thought that's where he was hanging out at was Mexico,
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Speaker 4: And I had no clue from there until you know,
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Speaker 4: the Marshalls got a call that he was spott at
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Speaker 4: going into Belize, and that's when you know the chase
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Speaker 4: was on.
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Speaker 1: The chase was on you come out of retirement and
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Speaker 1: devote yourself to tracking down the man you believe murdered
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Speaker 1: your daughter Crystal, and joining me right now is a
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Speaker 1: special guest. IRV Brandt, former Senior Inspector US Marshall Service
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Speaker 1: International Investigations, IRV Brandt, IRV. The years voted to finding
22:01
Speaker 1: this guy were agonizing. Could you explain how this is done?
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Speaker 1: How he was finally tretted down?
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Speaker 5: Yes, Nancy, I can. It's the US Martial Service said
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Speaker 5: it when they put out the announcement that it was
22:19
Speaker 5: due to Miss Winstle's unrelenting search and her use of
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Speaker 5: social media. And it shows especially south of the border.
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Speaker 5: Just south of the border, when fugitives fully from the
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Speaker 5: United States, usually into Mexico, then start making their way
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Speaker 5: down into Central America, they tend to gravitate to the expats,
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Speaker 5: the US citizens that are living south of the border,
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Speaker 5: and that's where they start making their contacts and their friends,
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Speaker 5: and they move from town to town, country to country,
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Speaker 5: and then pick up jobs using their contacts with American citizens.
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Speaker 5: Whereas the fugitive was found teaching English, which is common
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Speaker 5: for US citizens native speakers of English to teach that
23:17
Speaker 5: in foreign countries and it was through those contacts and
23:23
Speaker 5: those people and the flyers and the things that Miss
23:28
Speaker 5: Whitzel put out that he was spotted that ultimately led
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Speaker 5: to the apprehension. And there was just excellent work by her.
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Speaker 1: How do you become one of the top fifteen most
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Speaker 1: wanted fugitives or brant? How do you get that distinction?
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Speaker 5: The US Marshall Service has, like the FBI's ten Most Wanted,
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Speaker 5: they have their fifteen most wanted, and they consider a
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Speaker 5: lot of factors before putting someone on that most wanted.
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Speaker 5: And it has to do a lot with the crime
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Speaker 5: that that person committed, who that person is, where they
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Speaker 5: have fled to, and basic they're dangerous, How they're deemed
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Speaker 5: dangerous to society in general. And I can tell you
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Speaker 5: that the US Marshal Service thought this man was a
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Speaker 5: danger to society as a whole.
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Speaker 1: I am looking irv it. Maybe you can shed some
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Speaker 1: light on this. The US Marshals Top fifteen most Wanted
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Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars reward for this guy, and they
24:42
Speaker 1: give caution in big red letters, armed and dangerous. MacLeod
24:47
Speaker 1: wanted in connection with the death of Crystal Mitchell. He
24:51
Speaker 1: is an avid bodybuilder and a heavy drinker history domestic violence,
24:56
Speaker 1: fled California after the murder of Crystal. We believe to
25:00
Speaker 1: have fled to Mexico. US marshals obtained a federal UFAP
25:06
Speaker 1: warrant for McLeod Josephine. Where was he finally found?
25:12
Speaker 4: He was finally found in El Salvador, in a small
25:15
Speaker 4: town in L Salvador, teaching in that classroom you see,
25:21
Speaker 4: looking just like that boy.
25:22
Speaker 1: His appearance sure has changed right.
25:25
Speaker 4: Totally, you know, Nancy, I couldn't even recognize him in court.
25:29
Speaker 4: There was another witness that came fort and he couldn't
25:31
Speaker 4: recognize him in court.
25:32
Speaker 1: So after all of this, one of the top fifteen
25:36
Speaker 1: most wanted fugitives, Raymond R. J. McCleod, found teaching school
25:42
Speaker 1: in L Salvador. Josephine. What gave him away?
25:46
Speaker 4: Well, it was his one of my ads that I
25:49
Speaker 4: put out there, and someone saw that and spotted him
25:53
Speaker 4: and called it in.
25:54
Speaker 1: Lauren Colin, co hosts of Primetime Crime on YouTube. How
25:58
Speaker 1: was he arrested? Nandy?
26:00
Speaker 9: After a woman saw him at a club and claimed
26:02
Speaker 9: that he was very creepy looking. She called the tip
26:06
Speaker 9: in and then the USLS found him in l Salvador,
26:10
Speaker 9: where he was reciting.
26:11
Speaker 1: Oh okay, hold on, you're giving me a flashback to
26:14
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger because women at bars report him as quote
26:19
Speaker 1: being creepy. And when you get the idea someone is creepy,
26:24
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, it's not just a hunch. It's coming from
26:28
Speaker 1: somewhere these women. Spott McLeod known as r J McLeod
26:33
Speaker 1: when he was arrested in El Salvador. He was going
26:36
Speaker 1: by Jack from Canada. But when the women in the
26:40
Speaker 1: bars and restaurants said Coburger was quote creepy and got
26:44
Speaker 1: away from him, same thing here, and they were right.
26:48
Speaker 1: This guy has already strangled one wife, he has domestic
26:52
Speaker 1: violence claims against him, and was just wandering loose. He
26:55
Speaker 1: should have been behind bars when he collides with Crystal.
27:00
Speaker 1: The women were right their hunch. Think you want to
27:02
Speaker 1: call it, that was right, Cheryl.
27:04
Speaker 6: Well, we all have a sixth sense, Nancy. It's important
27:09
Speaker 6: to listen to it. If the hair stands up on
27:12
Speaker 6: the back of your neck, or somebody just gives you
27:14
Speaker 6: a weird feeling, if something is all you've got to
27:18
Speaker 6: listen to that. Here it was clear that there's a
27:22
Speaker 6: pattern with him. More than one person got that feeling.
27:26
Speaker 6: These folks, these predators, cannot hide who they are.
27:31
Speaker 1: Josephine Wentzel, how did you learn that he had been apprehended.
27:35
Speaker 4: Well, I had gotten a phone call prior to his
27:38
Speaker 4: apprehension from the marshall stating that he was spotted, and
27:43
Speaker 4: so I was just waiting on pins and needles for
27:46
Speaker 4: them to get to that location, hoping he doesn't run away.
27:49
Speaker 4: And then I got that phone call that Okay, we're
27:53
Speaker 4: here and we're going in, and you know, they went
27:58
Speaker 4: in and got him. But you know, here's the interesting thing.
28:01
Speaker 4: He wasn't arrested by the marshals at the scene. He
28:05
Speaker 4: was arrested by the El Salvadoran police, who threw him
28:09
Speaker 4: out of the country. He didn't want to be extradited,
28:12
Speaker 4: he had no choice.
28:21
Speaker 2: Investigators piecing together events that led to the murder of
28:24
Speaker 2: Crystal Mitchell and cover a troubling relationship with her boyfriend,
28:28
Speaker 2: what Derek secrets did he have?
28:32
Speaker 10: There is a very real concern that McLeod's history of
28:36
Speaker 10: violence will continue to escalate and he will strike again
28:41
Speaker 10: while he's on the run, most likely against an unsuspecting
28:45
Speaker 10: woman the murder victim in this heartbreaking case, Crystal Mitchell
28:52
Speaker 10: left behind two young children, a loving mother, a brother,
28:57
Speaker 10: and a heartbroken family. Friends.
29:00
Speaker 1: Will there be justice for Crystal and the two little
29:04
Speaker 1: children that she has left behind. Josephine Winsle, Crystal's mother
29:09
Speaker 1: and founder of Angelsofjustice dot org, comes out of retirement
29:15
Speaker 1: to help search the world to find Crystal's killer. Josephine Wincel,
29:21
Speaker 1: what exactly is happening in court right now?
29:24
Speaker 4: Well, we just went through a preliminary hearing. It took
29:26
Speaker 4: over two years for preliminary hearing. This was a tenth
29:30
Speaker 4: attempt and finally stuck and we went to court and
29:37
Speaker 4: he tried to claim accidental death and he wanted to
29:44
Speaker 4: plead guilty to manslaughter accidental death.
29:51
Speaker 1: I was appalled, And so is accidental death? Josephine, How
29:55
Speaker 1: is this an accidental death?
29:57
Speaker 4: I guess he's an accident that happened to himself.
30:00
Speaker 1: So that what is his claim?
30:03
Speaker 11: Though?
30:04
Speaker 1: How is he possibly claiming her murder is an accident.
30:08
Speaker 1: There's a trail of blood, literally, a trail of blood
30:13
Speaker 1: leaving the apartment to the elevator.
30:15
Speaker 4: He has a lot of money and he's been built
30:18
Speaker 4: out of many troubled situations, similar to abuses and stuff.
30:23
Speaker 4: So he just thought he'd get away with this one
30:25
Speaker 4: and get away with using his money, hiring attorneys and
30:29
Speaker 4: saying accidental.
30:30
Speaker 1: Doubt to Cheryl McCollum, joining US forensics expert, Cheryl, how
30:34
Speaker 1: is he claiming this murder is an accident? How how
30:38
Speaker 1: is that happening?
30:39
Speaker 6: It's not going to work. An accident is not going
30:42
Speaker 6: to explain how her throat was broken in three places,
30:48
Speaker 6: how she's got a confusion on her face, how there's
30:51
Speaker 6: blood forced trauma, how he never rendered aid, how he
30:54
Speaker 6: left the trail of blood, and why he would you
30:58
Speaker 6: go into hide and foresee years That is not an accident.
31:02
Speaker 6: There's no way, there's zero chance that any evidence is
31:06
Speaker 6: going to even suggest something that ludicrous.
31:10
Speaker 1: Joining me is high profile lawyer Eric Fattus, trial lawyer,
31:13
Speaker 1: TV and list founding partner of Varner Fattest Elite Legal,
31:18
Speaker 1: Eric Fattus. It's very difficult to determine which way the
31:23
Speaker 1: defense is going to go. We're getting an idea from
31:26
Speaker 1: the preliminary hearing based on the questions that they asked
31:29
Speaker 1: at the preliminary hearing, But this is headed to trial,
31:32
Speaker 1: and I see several avenues the defense will explore. Number one,
31:38
Speaker 1: they're going to claim an accident. How are they going
31:41
Speaker 1: to claim an accident? They are going to try and
31:44
Speaker 1: say that during consensual quote rough sex, Crystal was killed.
31:54
Speaker 1: You heard what was done to her body. There's no
31:59
Speaker 1: way jury is going to believe all that was an accident.
32:04
Speaker 1: Then he could try and claim he his mind was
32:07
Speaker 1: clouded because he was drinking and using steroids. But the
32:12
Speaker 1: law is voluntary use with drugs are alcohol is not
32:16
Speaker 1: a defense? So what's he going to argue? This guy
32:20
Speaker 1: weighs about two hundred and eighty pounds, he stands five
32:22
Speaker 1: to eleven, he's a bodybuilder, he's high on steroids. How
32:27
Speaker 1: is he going to call what self defense against this
32:29
Speaker 1: petit little girl.
32:30
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy.
32:31
Speaker 4: A horrendous set of circumstances.
32:33
Speaker 1: Michadul's system is WINSL.
32:34
Speaker 5: I think the.
32:35
Speaker 13: Defense, like you said, is going to explore a couple avenues.
32:38
Speaker 13: One is that this was an accidental death, just a
32:40
Speaker 13: tragic state of affairs that played out and was not intended.
32:45
Speaker 13: In fact, that the preliminary hearing called doctor Drew Pinsky
32:49
Speaker 13: to say that he choking during sex is a common
32:53
Speaker 13: more common than people think, and oftentimes the risks are
32:56
Speaker 13: not fully appreciated by the participants. Secondly, they're going to
32:59
Speaker 13: say that he was engaging in voluntary intoxication that prohibited
33:04
Speaker 13: his ability to form an intent to kill. The alcohol
33:08
Speaker 13: and the steroids clouded things so much that he could
33:11
Speaker 13: not form this intent to kill, which is necessary to
33:14
Speaker 13: convict him of the higher murder chart.
33:16
Speaker 1: Are you serious? Is this a joke? I mean, are
33:18
Speaker 1: you just saying this because you don't know what else
33:20
Speaker 1: to say.
33:21
Speaker 13: That's the claim that his defense is bringing, and I'm
33:24
Speaker 13: just sort of trying to articulate that for your viewers.
33:26
Speaker 1: So then yes, okay, So let me understand this. The
33:30
Speaker 1: claim is going to be Eric Fattis, who was won
33:32
Speaker 1: a lot of cases in court, by the way, and
33:34
Speaker 1: here we see what's going to happen. He's going to
33:38
Speaker 1: claim that three fractures to her voice box. That's why
33:45
Speaker 1: the roommates didn't hear anything but one short scream because
33:50
Speaker 1: he took those two Virginia hams that he calls hands
33:54
Speaker 1: and fractured her voice box and three places. That's why
34:00
Speaker 1: she didn't scream anymore. When she screamed he destroyed her
34:06
Speaker 1: voice box.
34:07
Speaker 13: Well, I think that's go ahead.
34:09
Speaker 1: No, I can't wait to hear what you're going to say. Fattest, Well, just.
34:13
Speaker 13: A little wrinkle in the cases that you know. It
34:16
Speaker 13: looks like the aggression, according to prosecution, was started at
34:19
Speaker 13: the elevator and then went into the apartment, and so
34:24
Speaker 13: there's at least an argument that there was no damage
34:26
Speaker 13: to the voice box at that point.
34:28
Speaker 1: And had this been non.
34:29
Speaker 13: Consensual, defense is going to say that the tenants would
34:31
Speaker 13: have heard screams.
34:32
Speaker 1: They did hear a scream. Is that messing up your scenario?
34:35
Speaker 13: It was not.
34:36
Speaker 1: My little revision is history. You're trying, okay, hold hold on,
34:40
Speaker 1: and then you're claiming that, Okay, you're claiming it was
34:44
Speaker 1: an accident. That would be your argument, But then how
34:47
Speaker 1: does that jibe with his history of domestic abuse? When
34:51
Speaker 1: the state begins calling similar transactions, including the previous wife,
34:55
Speaker 1: I think it was wife number two, because, by the way, ladies,
34:58
Speaker 1: he was still married when he met Crystal. She didn't
35:01
Speaker 1: know that still married to wife number three. Listen, one divorce, Hey,
35:06
Speaker 1: that could be anybody's fault when you're on your second
35:09
Speaker 1: and third divorce it's you. Okay, with the exception of
35:15
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor, of course, but it's you. Think about Drew Peterson,
35:20
Speaker 1: the cop turn killer. He was on wife what four
35:23
Speaker 1: or five? Cheryl McCollum. Let's see. He killed Kathleen Savio,
35:27
Speaker 1: that was wife number three. He beat her brutally. She
35:30
Speaker 1: was found in a dry bath of bone, dry bath
35:33
Speaker 1: with tudd but people claimed that she fell in the
35:37
Speaker 1: shower and died. Okay. Then there's Stacy Peterson, his fourth wife. Okay,
35:41
Speaker 1: when your whole wife number four and they're dropping like flies,
35:45
Speaker 1: it's not them, it's you, right, Can anybody disagree with that?
35:49
Speaker 1: Except faddest.
35:50
Speaker 6: You can look at that night and see the things
35:53
Speaker 6: that were not consensual. He slapped her, not consensual. He
35:56
Speaker 6: got into a physical fight with another man, not consensual.
36:00
Speaker 6: He shoved her in the elevator, not consensual, and he
36:03
Speaker 6: murdered her.
36:04
Speaker 1: Will there be justice for Crystal Well her two children
36:09
Speaker 1: grow up knowing that the justice system worked. I wonder
36:15
Speaker 1: because if it had not been for Cristel's mother, Josephine
36:18
Speaker 1: Winzl R J. McLeod would never have been found. Josephine,
36:24
Speaker 1: we were speaking of similar transactions in this case. You
36:28
Speaker 1: know what happened in the preliminary hearing. You know the
36:30
Speaker 1: defense is going to try and blame Crystal, your daughter
36:35
Speaker 1: now dad, claiming she wanted rough sex. For most people,
36:40
Speaker 1: I would dial back because I would be afraid of
36:44
Speaker 1: hurting the mom's feelings. Your former law enforcement you've been
36:48
Speaker 1: knee deep, ankle deep. Excuse me, you've been knee deep,
36:53
Speaker 1: waist deep, elbow deep in the search for McLeod and
36:57
Speaker 1: you helped find him. Yes, you're gonna drag your daughter
37:01
Speaker 1: through the mud. Speaking of similar transactions, Josephine, isn't it
37:06
Speaker 1: true that, according to the neighbor of a Mayan woman
37:10
Speaker 1: he was dating in Livingstone, Guatemala, he would beat her routinely.
37:17
Speaker 1: They could hear her screaming. Isn't that true, Josephine.
37:22
Speaker 4: Yes, I was told that she was beaten so badly.
37:26
Speaker 4: As how the woman described it, she just said.
37:30
Speaker 1: The neighbors say they don't even know how the woman lived.
37:34
Speaker 1: So if this guy walks, there will be another victim. Josephine,
37:40
Speaker 1: your story is so incredible what you have sacrificed to
37:44
Speaker 1: find your daughter's killer. Could you share.
37:47
Speaker 4: That it was a big sacrifice, It was over six
37:50
Speaker 4: years of searching for him, dealing with terrorists, you know,
37:55
Speaker 4: putting money out to you know, so called witnesses and
37:59
Speaker 4: tipsters and whatnot. It was really hard. It was very difficult.
38:03
Speaker 4: I was in the middle of grieving and raising two
38:07
Speaker 4: small children and trying to be that wife and trying
38:10
Speaker 4: to be that mother to my other grieving children. It
38:13
Speaker 4: was a very very difficult time. And to have been
38:17
Speaker 4: putting all my time and effort into this, To come
38:20
Speaker 4: to court and listen to people say that this was accidental,
38:24
Speaker 4: it just kills me inside. But you know, I have
38:28
Speaker 4: faith that the truth will come out and justice will
38:31
Speaker 4: be served. And you know, Nancy, I just want to
38:33
Speaker 4: point out my daughter is so ocd. You see all
38:36
Speaker 4: her pictures. Do you see any bruising on her? Do
38:39
Speaker 4: you see any kind of marks on her neck, her
38:43
Speaker 4: body or anything. She is not into that sick accusation
38:48
Speaker 4: that they're making about her. This girl would even go
38:50
Speaker 4: out in public with a pimp on her face, let
38:52
Speaker 4: alone strangling marks and bruises and stuff. Absolutely insane. She
38:59
Speaker 4: trusts it. That was her problem. Was she trusted this man?
39:03
Speaker 4: That was what happened to her or what killed her?
39:06
Speaker 1: Was she trusted him, Josephine. I'm just so I'm just
39:08
Speaker 1: so worried, Josephine, because this guy has managed to con
39:13
Speaker 1: woman after woman after woman, And if the state fails
39:18
Speaker 1: and doesn't get the right evidence in, he could walk again.
39:23
Speaker 1: He could walk again. And when I think, when I
39:27
Speaker 1: look at her photos, and I think that he so
39:31
Speaker 1: brazenly just left a trail of this beautiful girl's blood,
39:40
Speaker 1: then takes the car she rented and dumbs it, leaving
39:44
Speaker 1: her body for other people to find, mangled and bloody.
39:51
Speaker 1: I just pray. I pray for justice, not just for her, Josephine,
39:56
Speaker 1: not for you and your husband, but for her children,
40:01
Speaker 1: because I don't want them growing up thinking nobody fought
40:05
Speaker 1: from my mom, nobody got justice. We wait as justice
40:12
Speaker 1: unfolds for Crystal, and now we stop to remember an
40:18
Speaker 1: American hero. Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaize, Junior russ County Sheriff's, Wisconsin,
40:25
Speaker 1: shot and killed in the line of duty. Glaze survived
40:29
Speaker 1: by a grieving wife, now widow, his high school sweetheart, Sarah,
40:36
Speaker 1: and their children, Kendall, Levi and Eleianna, just five months
40:41
Speaker 1: old when she lost her dad. American hero deputy Sheriff
40:47
Speaker 1: Dan Glaize Junior, end of watch. Thank you so much
40:55
Speaker 1: for our panel being with us tonight, especially Josephine, but
41:01
Speaker 1: also thank you to you for being with us. Nancy
41:04
Speaker 1: Grace signing off, goodbye friend,