Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 334 - The Power of Leading by Example in Evangelism

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Ep. 334 - The Power of Leading by Example in Evangelism · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So when Jesus calls us, come, follow me, he's calling us into discipleship.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And I think today in modern Christianity, what we want is we want a transaction.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: We wanna say Jesus be my Lord and Savior, but then when he says, pick up your cross and follow me, we're like, eh, I'd rather you, just you do all the work and then let me go about my business.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: And so what you're talking about here is discipleship.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: As leaders of churches, we should be bringing people into our lives, at our dinner tables, in our daily routines, and when a pastor, an elder, when his routine in life is evangelistic in nature and then he invites the members of his church to witness that, they are gonna become evangelistic in nature.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Mark, I just had a conversation with somebody, a young adult, and they were like man.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Mark is like a father figure to me.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I lived with him for almost a year.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I go out with him every Friday.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: They didn't say to me I learned educationally from Mark how to be an evangelist.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: They said to me I followed him.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I observed his life in the home, him at the dinner table, him raising his kids.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I observed him being an evangelist in life and that has made an impact on my life.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of leaders that we need to raise up evangelists.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I love, I love, I love root canals.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: It's like this moment for me?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I never.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I never in all my life thought I would say such a thing, but I went to Dr James.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Lynn, no, you're sincere, you're not being sarcastic, no, no no, no, no, A hundred percent.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Went to Dr James Lynn.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I think we talked about my tooth issue the other day, the abscess and all that craziness.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Anyway, he did some stuff, took away my pain, but then had to do a root canal and you guys know that before this, when he had to work on the abscess, it was the worst pain I'm not exaggerating I've ever had in my life and so you can imagine I'm thinking a root canal Like I'm dead right Barbecued Arab.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It was the most pleasant experience.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Pleasant.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's like I'm lying there and he did the thing, blah, blah, blah.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, all right, when are you going to start?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And he's like I'm done, like what do you mean?
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: You're done.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: And Ray, you know he loves dentistry.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've told you before, my dentist is the best dentist in the world.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: I've fallen asleep when he's worked on my teeth.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, seriously I did have canal about three years ago and I changed the name of the message saying evangelism is worse than a root canal.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: I've turned it around because that's a terrible experience.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: I thought I was gonna die.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hold you upside down and try and choke you to death.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: But James Lin, it's just an incredible dentist and he loves human drainpipes.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: He loves it was born to stare down people's mouths.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I couldn't name anything worse.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I I probably could, but I just.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Have either of you ever considered brushing your teeth?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, because it's my new hobby root canals so I'm going to be doing this all the time.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: So James really, really loves working on people's teeth and he asked if he could come back.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: He wants to pull all his teeth out and screw them in again.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: Just for fun on a Saturday morning.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Just for fun on a Saturday morning, just for fun.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, friends, if you live anywhere in Southern California, check out Dr James Lynn's Southland Dental in Anaheim.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Southland Dental in Anaheim.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: And we don't get a kickback for that.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah no kickback.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wonderful.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Today, friends, we have with us a friend who's sitting by.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Look how patient he is, how calm, how relaxed.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Corey McKenna, who's got the coolest head of hair on the planet.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Thanks, EZ.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: I appreciate that.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: It is pretty smooth.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: How much was that Smoothness, I mean?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: each hair like perfectly aligned.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: That's part of the package.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: It reminds me of the pipeline on a good day in Hawaii.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: It does have that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Look.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Corey McKenna, all the way here from Canada.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Did you know the US is gonna become a Canadian province soon.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Well, that's what we're hoping.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's gonna happen, though we're on our way.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Brother, your president would have a lot to say about that.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: But Corey is the equipping evangelist and the founding president of the Cross Current.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Love that name, by the way.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Always have loved the name of your ministry.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Thank Cross Current.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Love that name, by the way.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Always have loved the name of your ministry.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you, it's cool.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: You've been a pastor since 2002 and equipping evangelist since 2007.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: And not only do you live with your wife Dawn I would hope so, but you brought her with you we did Wise man.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: It's not good for men to be alone.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: London, ontario, canada, two sons, joshua and Caleb.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Couldn't you give them a biblical name, brother, we thought those were good names.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were the only two guys who survived the whole cut.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: That's true, Very good names, bro.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: We're blessed to have you with us.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: It's a joy to be here.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: We'll talk to you later.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And now time friends.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Very cool, Classy comments.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: You can go now.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Just a girl from Texas said praise God for you guys.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I'm 15, and for as long as I can remember my family has watched Living Waters.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: While I was impressed at your evangelism, I had never felt the need to do it myself.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Why should I when people like you already are?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Well, about a year ago I started listening to the podcast and, wow, I've bounced around from listening to it in order to picking it and picking and choosing back to listening in order.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: It has honestly been one of the biggest areas of my growth as a Christian.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Y'all somehow balance humor, fellowship and theological discussions perfectly, and I can't get enough.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: You guys say y'all in Canada anywhere.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Not so much, come on bro we say a lot apparently, yeah hey, how about that?
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: We're trying to bring y'all over here because I like y'all, so efficient, so efficient, easy, you have inspired me there we go.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: This is why he's reading it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: This is a kickback.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: This is why easy.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: You have inspired me to work on memorizing the epistles yes, all of them.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: That being said, maybe y'all could do an episode on memorization that'd be good, we'll try to remember.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: That friend mark of yours.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I also love all of the voices.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: You do, though your re-impersonation, while funny, may not be 100% accurate.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: It's not even 3% accurate.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: You just lost me there, sister, what are you talking about?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: This is the most offensive comment you've ever read.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You know how many people around the world tell me I do your accent so beautifully Three, three?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Do you know how many people around the world tell me I do your accent so beautifully Three, three million?
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Even your wife disagrees with you about it.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: She loves you, you guys are Kiwis.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Whatever, oscar, your empathy for the lost while not condoning them at all, along with your love for Narnia, is wonderful.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I have had a new desire to read many more Christian nonfiction books, and I'm very grateful, mark.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Your wisdom and ability to keep discussions on track is admirable and thank you for it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: It has helped me to engage my mind more when considering things In truth.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I believe that y'all's podcast has helped me incredibly.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: You have taught me to think critically when it comes to many people who claim Christianity and to keep Christ and the Bible the first, foremost and only object of truth for my life.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I am incredibly, incredibly grateful.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I'll be praying PS Easy.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Keep singing, yes, I will you don't have to, I can't.
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: You know Corey sings, do you?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Corey, he needs to be part of a band.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: That's my background.
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's right, you showed us your big moth, the mug shot.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, sing us a mug shot.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Sing us a mug shot.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: Come on, muggy, that'll be the encore Lead guitarist.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, were you like into 90s rock scene Give us an example.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Top three 90s rock bands Go Of a song?
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: No, through voice.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: Just sing us something.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: What do you want me to?
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: sing.
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: I have no idea what you can sing, just give us something.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Happy birthday.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: No, you are the champions.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: We are the champions.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Leave the guy alone.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: That's too high.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Leave the guy alone.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: That's too high.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Source this podcast is brought to you by Scientific Facts in the Bible.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: A hundred reasons to believe the Bible is supernatural in origin.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: Is that better?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Contrast Oscar, up here, down here, ray, hundreds of thousands of copies.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, 600,000, I think.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: That sounds prideful.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, yes.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: But our publisher's bridge logo has allowed us to have a massive print, so it brings the unit price down to under a dollar per book so people can buy them.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: They come in a box of 80.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: So easy to give away and I've given so many to people who say I don't want your book and they look at it and say, yeah, I like this.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Because it's got Einstein on the front and a dinosaur.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I've never gotten more texts about a book than yours, because people see it at airports, right?
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: Hey, raise a book in the airport.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: I'm always turning them around at airports.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's great.
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: So people don't buy them A book right in front of it.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So check it out, friends.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Don't forget the Living Waters mug, from which you can take a chug.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Don't forget the evidence study Bible that's liable to bring about revival.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Don't forget the evidence study Bible that's liable to bring about revival.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: And Living Waters TV alllivingwaterscom.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: All right, friends.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Back to Corey Mark.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: You love my stuff, don't lie, corey.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir Bro, I am so thrilled about what the Lord is doing through your life, through your ministry.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Me too.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: You are honestly one of my favorite people on the planet because of I appreciate that, Thank you, yeah, your passion for the Lord, your single-mindedness and man, your perseverance I mean you've been at this a long, long time.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: I have, and I've got the battle scars to prove it.
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: It all started.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Here, though I mean just laying that all down.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: It all started right here, 2006.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: I was a pastor five years in, had no clue how to share my faith with anybody.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: I was teaching it and preaching it.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: I was a flat-out hypocrite.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: And you guys turned me around.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Wow, it's that simple.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: So it was the academy.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: It was the academy.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: How'd you hear about it?
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Through a friend who's now the executive director of Answers in Genesis, canada.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: He sent me Hell's Best Kept Secret.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: I listened, I was convicted and I boarded an airplane alone, just in case it went south, pun intended, and it didn't, here I am.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: It went south, then north and, yeah, then we started a ministry to equip churches and Christians to share their faith, and it all started here.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: That is so encouraging.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: And, for those who don't know, the Ambassadors Academy is a weekend-long program that we host now once a year where we bring about 100 students in and it's.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I think the thing that's super cool and unique and I'm sure you can speak to this, corey is that we do in-classroom type training, but I mean, you can get that anywhere.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: It's not just information transformation.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: We then take people out on the streets, stand side by side with them as they sometimes preach the gospel for the very first time.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Most of them do, I think, don't they?
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: They break the sound barrier.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: We teach them about fishing and then throw them in the ocean.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Corey, you've actually been out a couple times with people, right, or?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: how many times have you come out?
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: Out here Several times yeah several times Brought some people out.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: We're coming again actually with a group.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Oh, really this one coming up this one coming up in June.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Wonderful, that's exciting.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Well, we're so blessed that you're part of this discussion and I think all of us at the table here can say that we are really byproducts of example.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, ray has been our example, us three here, and including you, corey, obviously and obviously.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Ray had the example of the Word and what we see in the Word Because, ray, when you started open-air preaching, was there anyone doing it in New Zealand?
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: No, really I don't think there was open-air campaigners, but they would stand in a little sort of van on the side of a thing and talk to people.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever even asked you this.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: You know we're often birthed into a certain context, spiritually speaking, like a Christian culture.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: That wasn't a part of the Christian culture.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: What motivated you to open air, preach?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, was it what you were seeing in Scripture?
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: Seriously, Were people doing it in America.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I mean you had no example.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: No.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Wow, no, I just knew I had to do it and go into all the world, preach the gospel to every creature.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: And the crowd gathered in the local square cell there and did it, and I used to encourage myself when I felt alone and there was a lot of hecklers just yelling at me as I walked back to my car.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: They're still yelling at me when I walked back to my car and I thought I've got the privilege of preaching the everlasting gospel in the last days in the outermost part of the earth, in the city that bears the name of the Lord Christ's church, and that used to just give me courage.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: I'd go back the next day, but I just.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I was so thankful for the opportunity.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: That's really what it came from.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I just so wanted to share the gospel and to think I got a crowd, or crowds of 60, 80, 100 people sometimes, or the good heckler 200.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: When the wizard gave me his crowd, I thought this is just such a privilege.
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: And how did you draw a crowd way back?
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: Do you remember?
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, horribly, it was very difficult.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: For the first 18 months I didn't elevate myself, I just stood on the ground and people wouldn't stop.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: But when I got on a little ladder it gave people an excuse to stop.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: See what this idiot's talking about.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: And how did you know that?
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: How did you know I need to get a ladder, get some elevation, the wizard, because the wizard was on a ladder, he had a ladder.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: And one day I thought people gather around because obviously you've got something to say if you exalt yourself.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And that's what people say.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Who are you to stand up and talk to us on a ladder?
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: You're exalting yourself.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: I said it's because I'm short.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Look at the size of me.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I like the idea that the tradition of standing on a box and open air preaching in America all started because Ray wanted to be eye level in.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: New.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Zealand.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so encouraging, corey, speak to that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Right, like you were a pastor, and we often talk about how, if pastors were to be that example you know, I was talking to someone the other day and we were talking about how maybe in the whole world there's a hundred pastors that actually go out and evangelize like and lead their people like senior pastors.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Sure, right, I'd love you to speak to that.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Why don't we see that more?
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of angles to that prism, I think, and one reason I believe is I think there's just a disconnect between leadership and evangelism If we replaced evangelism with prayer, of course pastors go to prayer meetings, pastors go to Sunday morning worship I was a pastor, you were a pastor.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: I mean we lead by example in all of these areas.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: But evangelism seems to be sort of open season for we don't have to do that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: But that's not.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Paul's affection to young Pastor Timothy, I mean do the work of an evangelist is on the same list.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: And so I think we need to rethink Hebrews 13, 7,.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Imitate the faith of your leaders.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Sadly, in a lot of church I think that's exactly what's happening.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: That's not to be disrespectful to pastors.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: They've got a hard job, they've got a big job, they've got tons of plates spinning.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: But I kind of think evangelism is front and center to the reason Jesus came to seek and save the lost.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: So that has to be our priority as leaders and I think the heart of discipleship 1 Corinthians 11, 1, really strikes to be imitators of me as I am of Christ, follow my example.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Niv says as I follow the example of Christ, I have an illustration.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: Can I share an illustration real quick?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's why you're here.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: This really is sort of a testimonial illustration that sums up the whole aspect of example.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Why does our ministry say equipping the church by example?
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: The way you set the table, ez, is so true.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Example, example, example.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Imitation is at the very heart of discipleship.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: So the illustration goes like this Wind the clock back.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: I'm growing up on the east coast of Canada.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: I'm a young guy, I'm an old guy, so this is pre-internet.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I've always loved white Bengal tigers.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: My favorite animal is a white Bengal tiger.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: Just the power, the beauty.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: I had a picture of one on my wall and I would look at this animal and I thought to myself I wonder if I could own one of these things.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: You can own one of these things.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Went bad for Siegfried and Roy, remember those guys.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: But you can own one.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: But the way it works.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: I did a bunch of research and what I found out was that when you buy a tiger, they remove the cub from its mother as soon as it's born.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: That's essential.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: And it's raised around your family in your household.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: Over time becomes totally domesticated.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: It's just a big house cat.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: It loses its identity and its surroundings.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: But the warning for the pet parents of tigers is that if that tiger ever so much as sees the example of another tiger.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: It's over, it's instantly.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: There's this ferocious effect that's unleashed and it wakes up and it'll turn on you.
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: And so fast forward, 2006, the Academy.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: I'm a cub for Christ.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Did you get one or not?
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I did not get one.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I was about to ask.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: I did not get one.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: No, couldn't afford it and my mother wouldn't let me.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: But, here we are.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: It's 2006.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: I'm a cub for Christ.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I've become very domesticated as a gospel witness, dangerously so.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: My first gospel outreach team leader, what I would call my first equipping evangelist, disciple maker in evangelism, was a man named Tony.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: We all know Tony.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, tony the Tiger.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when I saw Tony the Tiger pray for people, lead teams into battle, preach in the open air, pass tracts, I had never seen this before.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: What I realized is that's me, I just never saw the example.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: If pastors, leaders, elders could wrap their head around that, what example could you be to your people as a tiger in evangelism, in marriage, in missions, in purity, like fight, like a man?
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: We need more tigers, training tigers, training tigers.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: And I think the heart of discipleship follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ is be a tiger, see a tiger.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: Be a tiger for someone else, see a tiger in someone else.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: That's the heart of discipleship.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: And the academy was that?
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: For me it's like learning to drive.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: I mean, we can study a handbook, but that doesn't make one a skilled driver.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: You need a trainer, you need instruction.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Had I not had example, I would have been just like everybody else.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: I just want to say that just so, so clearly, you guys are multiplying gospel ministry more than you probably realize.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: Only in glory will we see the outcomes of this conversation.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: Wow, praise the Lord, that's the illustration, guys.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: I love that we are tigers, training tigers.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: We all are.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: That's what we do.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be using that, it's so true.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: The inspiration that comes from someone else doing it.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: I think it awakens in us the realization like, hey, man, I'm made up of the same stuff they're made up of, especially when people share stories.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I've had people share how encouraged they've been by hearing us share our stories of weakness, that we still deal with the fear of man, that we're still tempted to not evangelize, and when people realize that that it's not like we've attained some sort of superhero status and we're fearless, that gives them the sense like, oh, they're like me, they're doing it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: What's the element that I need to continue to do it, ray, what would you say?
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: That is, what is it?
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: to continue to do it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Ray, what would you say?
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: That is, what is it?
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Well, I was just thinking how, when I got my first V-dub little beetle, I began to notice them all over the place.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I never saw them before, but once I had one I thought they're all over the place.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: It's the most popular car there is.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: And once you realize, evangelism is the essence of the whole New Testament.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: That's what it's all about God granting everlasting life to humanity.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: People sitting in the essence of the whole New Testament.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: That's what it's all about God granting everlasting life to humanity.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: People sitting in the shadow of death that were commanded to take the gospel and they did.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: And you think, how can anyone read the scripture and not see it Like me not seeing B-dubs until I had one, until I owned one.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: And I think how can pastors go through Luke 15 and not come out the other side saying, wow, you know the sheep that was lost.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: He went out and brought it back.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: The woman who lost one coin was so valuable to her.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: She did three things she lit a candle, she swept the house and she did it diligently.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: She lit a candle so she could see what she was doing and most of the churches in the dark when it comes to evangelism they don't realize this is what they should be doing.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Then she swept the house.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: If you want to be used by God.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Sweep your house, get rid of the dirt, present your body as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: And then she searched diligently.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: And evangelism is something we should do diligently, 24-7, because people are going to hell.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: It should consume us Always abounding in the work of the Lord, for your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: So I just love what you're doing and I love the fact that you see yourself as an equipping evangelist.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever heard me say it, but we don't use the word evangelism when we deal with the church because it's a dirty word, it's like a root canal, and I understand why by relating it back to the fact I don't like going door to door.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: The reason for that I'll share with you.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: I've shared before as a new Christian.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: I was about two weeks old.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: I knocked on a lady's door and, fear and trembling, I said to her hello, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And she said well, I am, and that's given me a fear of knocking on doors for the Lord, and so door knocking for me is what evangelism is like for most of the church.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: They think it's just too scary.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: But as an equipping evangelist, you know that you can teach people to address the conscience.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: You don't have to be an expert in apologetics and you can do it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: I want to go back a little bit.
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: When you knocked on that door, what happened next?
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Because we've heard that story several times, but I am a Jehovah's Witness.
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: What happened next?
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: She?
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: punched me Right in the.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: No, I just made that up.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I can't remember.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I think I just said well, thank you and goodbye and she closed the door.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: It was so traumatizing.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, I just went glazed eyes for the next 50 years, you know.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Corey, I love the fact that you're using a biblical term, in that you know Ephesians 4, paul says and he himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the work of ministry.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it surprises folks easy.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: There's only three uses of the word evangelist.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: Just grab your concordance, look it up.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: We have it on our smartphones.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: There's three uses and we typically think of the work of an evangelist.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: That's the phrase Paul shares with Timothy 2, timothy 4.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: Do the work of an evangelist, a Christian sharing the gospel with a non-Christian?
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: That's an act of worship and witness.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: We're all on the hook for that, praise God.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: It's actually an act of worship.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: But Philip the evangelist Acts 21, was doing that work with the Ephesians 4, in the context of gospel unity, partnership, leadership alongside shepherds and teachers is the word evangelist.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: That's a discipleship conversation to equip the saints.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: We don't see evangelism talked about there, we see discipleship talked about there.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: You guys are, to me, the Navy SEALs of equipping evangelists.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: This is where this one, this tiger, saw the tigers, and we just need tigers in every church to equip the saints for this work.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: But, ez, when you said wow, what makes us sort of people think we're superhuman?
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I thought of the Apostle Paul.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, if anyone could have boasted in his expertise and his, you know his acumen.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I mean he was the professor of philosophy.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: When Paul says, when I came to you, brothers, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: He could have.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: It's Paul, for I decided this was a choice he made to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my speech and my message were not implausible words of wisdom.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: They could have been, but why?
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: For a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Amen.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: This is about being faithful.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: And I would just say illustratively you've just driven the car more miles on the road than most other people.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: If you would just get behind the wheel of the car and start to drive it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: You can't steer a parked car, christian.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: You need to start to drive that car of gospel witness.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: But it helps when you have a trainer.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: We need training.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I love the way you're putting on display and talking about the idea of evangelism.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, of discipleship and you're putting in the context of evangelism, but I think it's an important question in total, because I think that modern day Christianity has lost a sense of what actual discipleship is.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I think we've adopted an enlightened view of education and then imported that into what it means to disciple.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: So an enlightened view of education is formal classroom based.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: You go in for six weeks, you work for a grade and the ultimate goal is that you memorize a couple of answers so that you can pass a test.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: It's information over transformation Discipleship.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, if you look at the scriptures, it looks more like an apprenticeship.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Right, you think about like a brain surgeon.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: They go to the same school, they get the same education, they have to pass the test.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: But we don't send brain surgeons out after they have the information to start slicing brains open.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Instead, they go under a type of apprenticeship for years they walk in other person's footsteps, they watch what they do and over time that person then stands over the shoulder of that new doctor and watches what he or she does until they're ready to be on their own.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: That is more what discipleship looks like.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: When Jesus called people and said come, follow me, he was asking them let me be your rabbi, or I should say he was commanding them I will be your rabbi.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And think about that.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, back then, kids would grow up and for the first few years of their life their goal was to memorize the first five books of the Old Testament.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And for the elite, they'd be able to move on until they're about 15 or 16, they'd memorize the rest of the Old Testament and at that point 95% of the people would just go off and they would be carpenters, they would be farmers, they'd be fishermen, whatever they were done with their process.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But for the elite few, the 5%, a rabbi would observe them and they would walk up to them and they would say follow me, and you would take on an apprenticeship with a rabbi and spend years.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Wherever he would go, you would go.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Wherever he would sleep, you would sleep.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Wherever he would do work, you would do work.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So when Jesus calls us, come, follow me, he's calling us into discipleship.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: And I think today, in modern Christianity, what we want is we want a transaction.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: We want to say, jesus, be my Lord and Savior.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: But then when he says, pick up your cross and follow me, we're like, eh, I'd rather you, just you, do all the work and then let me, let me go about my business.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: And so what you're talking about here is discipleship.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: As leaders of churches, we should be bringing people into our lives, at our dinner tables, in our daily routines, and when a pastor, an elder, when his routine in life is evangelistic in nature and then he invites the members of his church to witness that, they are going to become evangelistic in nature.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Mark, I just had a conversation with somebody, a young adult, and they're like man.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Mark is like a father figure to me.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I lived with him for almost a year.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I go out with them every Friday.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: They didn't say to me I learned educationally from Mark how to be an evangelist.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: They said to me I followed him.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I observed his life in the home, him at the dinner table, him raising his kids.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I observed him being an evangelist in life and that has made an impact on my life.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of leaders that we need to raise up evangelists, amen.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know Paul said to Timothy therefore, be an example to the believers in love, speech, conduct, faith, purity and that word of can be translated as to as well, and I think it's interchangeable Be an example of what a believer should be and be an example to the other believers of what they should be, and be an example to the other believers of what they should be right, whether it's to the world or to other Christians.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Mark, you've spent a lot of time with Corey over the course of the last few days.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear you just talk about how you have sensed his example has had an impact on others and how we can continue to stir other people Well.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: I was just praying yesterday that boy, I'd love it if he moved here, right, if he was part of the team here, or how would that be?
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: How would that come about, you know?
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: But I love praying things like that, you know, because you know, hope deferred it makes the heart sick.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: You know, I was praying the same thing with Eric Hoven.
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: You know, I was praying the same thing with Eric Hoven.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: I was talking to him through FaceTime yesterday.
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: He's just on the front lines, he's just doing it and I love surrounding myself with people that are just doing it and in God's wisdom God just says no, I'm reaching over here in these areas as well, and we don't need that necessarily here To your guys' point a lot of times leadership is more caught than taught.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: Right Paul said imitate me as I imitate Christ.
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: And whether we say that or not, it is being spoken.
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: Our lives are an unspoken language.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: Charles Spurgeon, the Baptist preacher, the prince of preachers.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: He said a man's life is always more forcible than his speech.
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: When men take stock of him, they reckon his deeds as dollars and his words as pennies.
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: So what we say with our words and with our actions is so much more powerful than what we actually say with our words is so much more powerful than what we actually say with our words, and so surrounding yourself with people that are doing it right that you can look up to.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: That's kind of Corey right.
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: Corey has grabbed a hold of that baton whatever he experienced back in 2006-ish right and he is running his race with endurance, and every once in a while he needs to pause, like we all do, come aside and rest a while and get that adrenaline shot.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: And then he goes back to his hometown, to his Jerusalem, and he's a light in the midst of that dark world there, and so we can't negate that the work that God is doing, both through Coreyrie and through the saints throughout the world.
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: God doesn't want to just reach this area.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: How do we know that?
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: Because he has planted people in other areas.
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: So let your light so shine among men that they may see your good works, and it brings glory to your Father in heaven, amen.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Ray, a few times now we've cited Paul in 1 Corinthians 11 and in other places.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Therefore, be imitators of me as I am of Christ.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I'd love you, Ray, to highlight how Christ was an example to us in our call to reach the lost.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Shall I say something?
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: I'd like to write a book called Wow, and it's quotes from Prince of Preachers, because I've noticed every time someone gives this virgin quote, we all go wow.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: What else can you say when you hear this virgin quote?
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Because there's no other words for it.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Jesus is our example and the Son of man has come to seek and save that which is lost.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Psalm 23 speaks of the shadow of death and it's the favorite psalm used by Hollywood.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: When someone's died, they'll stand around and go hello to cowboys and they'll read Psalm 23.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: They'll stand around and go hello to cowboys and they'll read Psalm 23.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: They'll walk through the valley of the shadow of death.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I fear no evil, thinking that that verse has got something to do with death, when it's the exact opposite.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: If you're in the shadow of something, you're not in the reality of it, you're just in close proximity.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: If I'm in the shadow of a wall, I'm not in the wall, I'm just very close to it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: And this life is the shadow of death.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: It hovers over us like a great shadow.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: And when Jesus was born, to them that sat, they're not going anywhere.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: To them that sat in the shadow of death, a light has sprung up.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: What a glorious picture of Jesus, the light of the world.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: So when we preach Christ, when we follow in his steps, we're preaching light to those that are in darkness, and we've just got to say we're the disciples.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: We cannot but speak that which was seen and heard.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Back to the equipping evangelist thing.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to point to a white tiger, I'm going to point to sort of a white sheep, because I'm from New Zealand, where there's a lot of sheep.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: We know the old joke how many sheep?
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: 40 million people, sorry, 4 million people, and something like 50 million sheep, although they're not sure of the exact amount because the guy that counts them keeps falling to sleep.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: How does that still make me laugh?
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I just wait for it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It's so stupid.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: It laugh.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I just wait for it.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: It's so stupid it still makes me laugh.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Anyway, in New Zealand we have what's called sheep trials and it's not like OJ Simpson trials where we put sheep on trials.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: It's when they remember in the movie Babe.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Have you ever seen Babe the movie?
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: It's just fantastic.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: It's not a true story.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: All the dogs talking to the sheep and that.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: But that's what it is.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Where sheep are corralled and a dog has to get them to go through a sheep gate, and if you can get them through the sheep gate and sheep are really dumb it's just he becomes a hero of the nation sort of thing.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: As the shepherd and I was in a pastor's home and we're watching one of these things.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: He goes out for get some orange juice.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: He comes back and I said there's a pastor standing there and these four or five sheep just not moving.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: And I says look at this poor pastor trying to get his flock involved in evangelism.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: One wrong move and he's going to scatter the sheep.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: And the pastor said, well, where's the evangelist?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Suddenly the sheepdog comes running through and goes and the sheep just went straight through that sheep gate.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And I says there's the evangelist.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: And that's what we're called to do.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: We're called to bark at the sheep and I love it when I and you watch a sheep dog.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: These are border collies, so intelligent they can round up 3,000 sheep in about two minutes.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: But they love what they do.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: They'll run across the backs of corralled sheep, run physically on the backs of sheep.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: Some sheep doesn't like.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: The dog stamps his feet like that right in front of the dog.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: The dog's not intimidated, he just goes and the sheep runs and does what he's told to do.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: And that's how I felt when I had an equipping evangelist ministry.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: The pastor he wants to get his flock involved in evangelism, but one wrong move they'll move to greener pastures, they'll go to another church where the pastor doesn't make them feel uncomfortable about their responsibility to reach out to the lost.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: So what does he do?
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Calls in the equipping evangelist and I would come in and I would bark at the sheep.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: And the reason I could bark at them is because I didn't care what they thought of me, because I'm going home tomorrow and I loved everything I was doing.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: And so that's the forgotten ministry of the equipping evangelist.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: We see evangelists as being like Billy Graham with Great Crusades or whatever.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: No, the equipping evangelist should be used by the local church to do what the pastor doesn't feel comfortable doing.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I remember years ago we had a couple guys come to meet with us here at the ministry that had been really impacted by Living Waters and they said they were burdened to start a ministry of influencing churches to install an evangelist, that every church would have an evangelist.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And again we kind of act Corey, like this wasn't a part of God's order for the church.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: But it is.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: And again we typically go in our minds to the evangelist goes out and evangelizes, that's all he does, but his primary role is for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry that we would fulfill the great commission.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, praise God for the guys that go with the fistful of tracks to the marketplace and they're on their own, and I mean we would love foot soldiers like that.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: But this is a multiplicative role, this is a disciple making role.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: I loved asking church leaders you know how many seeds are in an apple?
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: About seven seeds, how many apples are in a seed?
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: I mean that just kind of blows your mind.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: That's multiplication.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: What was that about seven seeds in an apple?
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: But seven seeds in an apple.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: There is, on average, yeah, On average, and so you apply that to discipleship and disciple-making.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: Most Christians are being disciples, they're just not making disciples.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: We're in a mode of consuming.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: To Oscar's point, we're kind of consuming information but we're not seeing transformation because we're not discipling other people that see a tiger be a tiger.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: Idea in every category of Christian life needs to happen.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: But I love what you guys are saying.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Absolutely true.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: This is a distinctly different role than a labor of the Lord's harvest, which we need more labors.
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: Jesus had the same problem.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: We have guys Ask the Lord for more labors, but this is definitely a role of disciple-making in evangelism.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you know, this is my concern in the church, mark, maybe you could speak to this a little bit.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: It's that it doesn't strike us as odd anymore that churches don't evangelize proactively.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: It'd be like, all of a sudden, a football team, a soccer team, a baseball team they don't play soccer or football or baseball Like how odd would that be.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Like that would that would.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: So I remember the thing I did a long time ago the fishless fishermen's club.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly reminded me of that.
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: Right, you know there's a saying evangelize or fossilize.
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: You know, when you hit a church and the church is just all elderly people and they lose sight of what is happening within the youth, your church is going to be dead very, very quickly.
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: That there should be inside of every one of us a desire never to graduate from the idea that it is somebody else's responsibility.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: You know there's a saying it's gotten kind of a bad rap, but if we were to not take it legalistically, if not you, then who, and then who?
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: And if not now, then when?
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: Well, when is the acceptable time to be able to reach out?
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: You know, I remember I was hanging out with a hyper calvinistic pastor one time and I was freshly born again.
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: We were, uh, tobogganing down a hill and there were a couple guys that joined us who were not Christians, and you could tell just by their language.
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: And I had said you know, somebody needs to share the gospel with them.
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: And I remember just thinking to myself I don't know if I know all the right words to be able to do so and his response was well, if they're elect, they're going to get saved.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: Just enjoy the tobogganing right Now.
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: No Calvinist is going to think that that's biblical.
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: I think that's right.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: That's why I said hyper-Calvinist in the midst of that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: But it is always our responsibility, as we go to the highways and the byways and the gutterways, to compel people to come, to point people to Christ.
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: It is always the right time to speak up.
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: It is always the right time to have gospel tracks with you.
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: We think we're going to the grocery store to pick up some food, but in reality you're going to be a light in the midst of darkness.
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: You're going to that department store to pick up a clothing item a jacket, a sweatshirt, a pair of shoes but in reality you can be slipping gospel tracts into pockets and leaving the results to God.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: You go inside that restaurant.
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: You get bad service and we demand to have good service, but in reality it's a great time to talk about grace to your server.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: This is the only day that we have.
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: Today's the day of salvation.
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: Today's the day to prepare people for the last day, because we don't know when death is going to come knocking for any one of us.
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: It comes knocking at an inopportune time.
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: We're planning for tomorrow.
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: Tomorrow may not come knocking back, so this is the right time.
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: And when you think about the church now, conglomerately at large, what is the responsibility?
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we want to equip the church and the people that come to church to be inspired, to live better lives, to equip your kids to be, whatever it may be.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: But if you're missing the idea of evangelism, you're missing the desire of Christ to seek and save that which is lost, and so we can't lose that, we can't.
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: What is it?
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: We?
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: For the sake of the tree, we see the trees for the forest.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: You can't see the forest for the trees.
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: Whatever?
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Ray yeah.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I love, mark, I love where you're headed with that, because evangelism, the expression of our joy, is the climax of our joy.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: In other words, so often I think, so many Christians out there they have a deadened experience of joy over their salvation because they never take the next step in regards to expressing it.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I've used this example from Psalm 51 over again, which is when David says restore to me the joy of your salvation.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Shortly after that, he becomes incredibly evangelistic.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Put a new word in my mouth.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: He starts talking about reaching Zion.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: That all would hear.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And, as I've said before, we are all evangelists in nature.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: It is in our nature to express the thing that brings us joy.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Everybody's an evangelist introvert, extrovert, extrovert If you.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: You know, every time you watch a new movie and you get excited about it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Every time you go to a new restaurant, have a great set of tacos.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Every time you go a new movie and you get excited about it every time you go to a new restaurant, have a great set of tacos every time you go to a great new A root canal, a root canal.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: When you have an amazing dentist.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: When you read a great new book, the next thing you do, no matter your disposition, no matter who you are, it is in your nature to tell somebody about it and, in that sense, the full expression of our joy.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: When our cup is filled with the joy of our salvation, the natural next step we do is express it, and I can't help but wonder how many Christians out there are stunted in their spiritual formation because they've never expressed the joy that God has given them.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: You know, Corey, I want you to really kind of extrapolate on this.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier the word worship in connection with evangelism.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: You know when I think of worship leaders and when I have prayed for worship leaders.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: When I'll be speaking at a church and we're all praying together as a group, I'll often pray Lord, please help the worship leader to lead us by the way they worship and then we'll follow right, and so we're talking about example.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: So how can we be examples in evangelism by way of worship?
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: What does that mean to worship the Lord in evangelism?
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: I used to be a worship leader and I heard I think with Matt Redmond say you should be the lead worshiper.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: I like that, that's good, and so you know.
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: Words do matter and it's interesting when we look at the first use of the word worship.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: It surprises folks where we see that word first in the whole Bible.
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: It's actually Genesis 22, and people think what's that about?
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: Well, it says this Abraham said to his young men stay here with the donkey, I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: And the wood they had was not guitar wood.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, this was about sacrifice, it was about obedience.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: And that first use really connects, draws a line to the concept of obedience, worship's obedience.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: We are living sacrifices.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Roman 12 said so to worship Christ as King.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: The primary way we do this with the life he's given us is through gospel witness.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: Witnesses are worshipers, worshipers are witnesses.
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: I think of Acts, chapter 1, and you will be my witnesses.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: He is saying obey the commands of the king.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: And so we go.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: But it is an act of worship.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: Gospel witnesses worship.
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: I worship Christ in every area of my life and what I do.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: I build my house on the rock and so that what?
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: When storms come, that house is wisely built, it stands strong.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: So gospel witness is really applying scripture to every area of human existence to the glory and praise of Christ the King.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: That's what we're trying to do and obviously we're in process, but that's an act of worship, everything we do.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: I'm sounding like John Piper at this point, but it's all about experiencing the pleasure of God through worship.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: And, oscar, I love what you said.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: When we witness to the glory of Christ, what a joy, what a pleasure we experience in obedience.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's fruit of evangelism, it's just the joy of obedience.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: So that's worship, amen.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And it's such a good feeling when you're obedient.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: We've often said when we go to evangelize, you go dragging your feet, but you come back clicking your heels.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: And you see it with the disciples in the book of Acts.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: It's always a battle of fear and you come back saying I did the will of God.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ray, you've often said that love needs to swallow our fears.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Speaking of imitation, think about what Paul said in Ephesians 5.1, therefore, be imitators of God as dear children, and walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God, for a sweet-smelling aroma.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: He's tying imitation of God with what Jesus did, and that was love and that was giving.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Ray, wouldn't you say that that coincides with what evangelism is?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: You're sacrificing, you don't enjoy it, you don't like it.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Another word for evangelism is love.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: And we've often said if you saw a child drown or drowning, you wouldn't stand there and say this is the water's too cold, I've got other things to do, I've got other priorities.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: No, no, you care about that kid.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Because love cannot watch a child drown, especially when you can save them.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: And so when we look at the lost, we've got to say with the disciples, we cannot but speak that which was seen and heard and we let our fears hold us back.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Part of the equipping evangelists.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: What we do is teach people how to reduce that fear, how to bring it into proportion, because it's overwhelming, it's a Goliath but it can be made into a Zacchaeus with just a couple of simple principles.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: If you're pushed into the heat of modern warfare armed with a feather duster or a feather duster, you're not going to be very courageous.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: But if we give you stated out weapons, those weapons will give you courage.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: And that law which addresses the conscience is the greatest auxiliary.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Spurgeon said it's our greatest weapon because it stirs the conscience.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: It brings that Lazarus out of the grave.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: It makes the conscience come alive so that it agrees with the commandments.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: We teach people don't stay in the intellect too long, because apologetics will just stir up enmity.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Counter-mine is enmity against God.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: It's not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: But use the law to address the conscience and you'll find everything changes.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: But use the law to address the conscience and you'll find everything changes.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: You'll have someone who was disagreeing two minutes ago nodding their head unconsciously because they know what you're saying is true.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Side note I've served in children's ministry.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: There's a few kids I'd be hesitant to jump in the water for we all know those children.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: You know, corey, I've often said that the word witness is not just a verb, it's also a noun.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: We don't just witness.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Each of us is a witness, is a witness.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: So speak to that because, tragically, I've seen people who are so into evangelism, so into apologetics, that they neglected the inner man, they neglected the inner life, they neglected walking upright, they neglected the presence of the Lord and then almost evangelism became an idol.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: That can happen.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: How do we guard against that?
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: When we think of the word witness, the first context that my mind goes to is a courtroom, and we think we call witnesses to the stand, and there's expert witnesses, there's special witnesses, and what do both lawyers try to do?
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: Well, the one who's against that witness tries to discredit that person, their credibility, their character.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: And Lord, help us if our words or if our talk does not match our walk as Christians.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: To your point, ez, we can think of, probably, sadly, a long list of people we've preached the gospel with in the open air, we went to the front line of battle with, who are now so offside with Christians and churches, and they're judgmental, and they're, it's just.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: It's an affront to the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace that we're commanded to eagerly maintain.
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: Right, so, but I do, I do agree that we have to, we have to abide always, and it's all about that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: It's all about persevering in prayer.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: It's all about being an example, not not just an evangelism, about being an example, not just an evangelism.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: If my theology of evangelism is it's the overflow of my life in Christ, my evangelism is actually my verbalization of my worship and witness and everything, then that should be everything that I am From my heart.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: I should be a whole life witness.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: I shouldn't be able to be attacked on that stand by the enemy for my credibility and my character.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: There should be a consistency between my walk and my talk in every category of life, as a husband, as a father, as a servant at church, as a workplace missionary.
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: This is why I think Paul is so determined to say slaves, obey your earthly masters, your gospel witness.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: That's part of that.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: There, masters, treat your slaves justly, all those things.
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: But I love what Ray was saying.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: I think what we neglect is the computer program running in the background of the whole New Testament is the Great Commission.
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: Even when Paul writes about other things, the assumption is all of these things contribute to our gospel witness.
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: That's why we're here.
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: John MacArthur says if that wasn't the goal we'd be there.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: That's the goal.
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: And so it's amazing how we kind of major in the minors.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying marriage isn't a major because it is a major.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: The first picture of Christ in the gospel is one man, one woman.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: That's what Paul says in Ephesians 5.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: But we have to remember that all of these teachings are atop the foundation of the Great Commission and Gospel Witness.
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: Everything we read, it starts there.
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: That's the basis for marriage, that's the basis for parenting.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: That is that we are witnesses.
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: We are people who are being watched by an unbelieving world, so that when I speak the words of Jesus Christ, does it make sense to them?
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: Are they saying you?
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: That's a terrible reaction.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: When I announce to someone I'm a Christian, you're a Christian.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: That's not what we want to hear.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: We want to hear oh, that makes sense.
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: Why does it make sense?
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: Because my, what did one guy say?
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: Your life in Christ is the John the Baptist of your verbal witness.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Right, it's true, it clears the way it reminds me of the spies in the Old Testament, in the sense that, you know, aaron sends out these spies into this future promised land and they come back as heralds.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: They come back with fruit and honey and they say, hey, they're basically telling them this is what God has for us.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: We have seen our future paradise.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: We are heralds, we are spies.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: We have seen the future.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: We know God's kingdom is coming and he is sending us back with fruit and honey.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: That fruit and honey is the gospel that's so good.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, maybe the first herald, like ray's uh gospel presentation at the ark encounter.
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, what a what an opportunity to bring, to bring that truth of the one door of jesus christ, the ark of our salvation.
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: But noah was a herald of righteousness, right, he was preaching warning of the judgment to come, and we are heralds, absolutely true.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: So let's preach it while we still can.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: And Mark, wouldn't you say that the biggest catalyst to why we should be excited about evangelism is because we ourselves are byproducts of the gospel.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, when people have a product that they want to sell, they get extremely excited.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: When they find someone who says, man, that worked for me.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: What's the first question?
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, would you give me a testimonial?
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Could you come on my video and be part of this infomercial?
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Because those that are most enthused are those that were most enthused, are those that were most impacted, and we're not hawking Ginsu knives out there, some product we're disconnected from.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well you are.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: They're pretty good Knife salesmen Right Mark, we're byproducts of the gospel.
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: We are.
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: You know it's been said that evangelism is the only pyramid scheme where everybody wins right.
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: So you know we've said before Carl Sagan, you know that great pagan of a man.
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: He said when you're in love, you want to tell the world.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: When you're in love with something or someone, you want everybody to know.
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: Maybe you're not telling people because maybe you're not in love as much as you say you are or that you claim that you are.
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: Jesus didn't say go into all the world and be quiet.
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: We are to open up our mouths.
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: It's the right thing to do.
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: It's not just your duty to do, but it makes sense to do.
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: And this is where a good litmus test takes place.
• 54:47
  Speaker 5: If you are not sharing the gospel with others, if you are not opening up your mouth as you ought, in the midst of a situation where they need to hear, you need to examine yourself.
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: Examine yourself to see if indeed you are in the faith Paul Washer said.
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: Are you saying that a lot of people in the pulpits are not saved because they're not sharing the faith?
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of people behind the pulpit are not saved.
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: There's something eye-opening to that.
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: Right, because we will multiply.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: You don't see an orange tree being frustrated because it's not producing oranges.
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: It's a natural byproduct.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: It must produce oranges, and if it's producing apples or some other fruit, well then it's not an orange tree.
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: So you can tell what kind of a tree it is by what it produces.
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: So if you desire to saturate yourself with the things of the world, you have more of a desire to do the things that look more like the world.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: Listen, there's a very good chance that you are of the world if you desire to watch movies and play games, because this is not a game, this is not a playground, it's a battleground, and we need to have our eyes open to the reality that christians share the gospel.
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: That's what they do, and if you can't articulate the gospel, how do you know you're saved?
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: yeah, that's good mark.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cory, you have your bible open to a certain spot, like you want to read something.
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, um, people do struggle with fear, we all do.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: But knowing, therefore, knowing the fear of the lord, we persuade others.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, when we fear god first, life sort of makes sense, right, Obviously.
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: One preacher said we serve who or what we fear most.
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: That's heavy man, because if I'm serving the things of the world, am I fearing I'm not popular what is going on there?
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: But when I fear the Lord and that is a fear it's beyond just yeah, he's God and I'm not God.
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: No, there's a fear.
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: Noah Hebrews says, in holy fear, in reverent fear, built an ark and condemned the world.
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: That's what it says.
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: That phobon is a fear.
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: Do I fear that?
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: Face-to-face with my creator, I mean, I will give account for deeds done in the body, whether good or evil.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: I mean I really think we have to live in light of eternity here and life just makes a lot more sense that way.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: And Ray, to those who say you know, I just don't have what it takes to do what you guys do, that's just, it's just, I just can't do it.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: What do you say to them?
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: How do you inspire them?
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: I'd say that's terrific, because you've just qualified yourself to be a witness of Christ, because God doesn't want your ability, he wants your availability, as someone once said.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: I love what Corey was saying about being a witness.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: When you're a witness in a trial, the judge doesn't want eloquence from you.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: He doesn't want you to stand up and say I witnessed this robbery.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: It was a dark and lonely night.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: The wind was blowing from the east the trees?
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: No, he doesn't.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: He says knock it off, tell me what you saw and heard.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: And that's what we're called to do as Christians to be witnesses of Christ.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: He doesn't want our flowery speech and the thing is, maybe someone's listening to you and you're feeling guilty that you're not evangelizing.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: That's good, because guilt drives me to reach out to the lost.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: And the same way as if I had loaves of bread in my arms and there were kids lying on the ground dying and I had the bread, I should feel guilty.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: And we've got the bread of life and all around us people are dying.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: So my guilt motivates me.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: So often it comes from joy and wanting to reach the lost.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: But my guilt helps me overcome my fears.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: I've got to do this because I care about the ungodly.
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: And Paul shows his burden for the lost in Philippians 1.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: Some preach Christ out of contention, insincerely supposing to add affliction.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: They were hypocrites, but he says nevertheless I rejoice that Christ is preached, that bread is still being given, and so let guilt drive you, let the equipping evangelist help you to deal with your fears.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: You know that we're all fearful, but we do it anyway.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: We're like firefighters who see some woman up on the fifth story.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: You have to climb a 60-foot ladder.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: You're terrified, but you do it because you're not thinking of yourself.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: You're thinking of that woman and her terrible fate.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Wow, corey, our greatest calling, our most really primary calling as examples is within the realm of our home, examples to our kids, example to the next generation that we're tasked with discipling and bringing up in the ways of the Lord, to bring it up in the training and admonition of the Lord.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes example in a negative sense deters a lot of parents from doing certain things Well.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do that, because if my kids see me doing that, what are they going to do?
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: But in a positive sense.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: When our kids see us proclaiming the gospel, how much of an impact can that have?
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: It's so true, something that just an insight that I believe the Lord gave me being here at Living Waters this few days, is with our own ministry.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: I'm just so encouraged by how many of your children are co-laboring for Christ right here.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: To me that's legacy building and that's multi-generational faithfulness, and that only happens when we're faithful around the supper table.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: That's where the gospel has to start.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: And I can remember I was invited into a sort of a staunchly reformed men's conference to teach and I taught well, basically the gospel and true and false conversion, the two sides of the same coin, the one-two punch.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: And it was example, example, example.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: And I remember there was sort of this confession time where one of these big Dutch I'm a small Irishman, these guys were huge big Dutch guy stands up and he comes to this realization well, you keep saying to me explain the gospel like I'm a child and I can't do that.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: So clearly I'm not teaching my own children Exactly what he said.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: We just punt them up the road to the Christian school.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: We don't ever do that.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: Generation upon generation, zero, family, worship, discipleship, none.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: And then another guy stood up.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: It was like repentance time and the thought occurred to me that if we would just start at home.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: Let's equip our children to understand the gospel, by which, yes, paul says that we were saved, but we're being saved.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: The gospel initially justifies it doesn't stop there Continually sanctifies.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: It doesn't stop there, eventually glorifies.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: It takes us all the way home.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Are we modeling that gospel to our kids?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: One thing we did a huge win.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: We've had major strikeouts as parents I mean my wife's here.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: She'll say amen to that.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: We were not raised in Christian homes.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: We're first-generation Christians.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: But we can remember addressing, say, a homeless person on a street corner and equipping our children to meet someone who's made in God's image with dignity and shaking their hand, getting their name, sharing the gospel, sowing the seed.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: And one particular story that stands out easy.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: We had met this one man my son was probably six at the time, younger son Caleb, and this man's name was Patrick, and so we shared the gospel, we bought him some food and went home.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: Six months later my son says we have to pray for Patrick, and I'm like who in the world is Patrick?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I don't even know the Patrick.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: And he thought my heart rolled out of my chest.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: Dad's lost his mind.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: Patrick was that man you shared Jesus with.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: He's seven years old at this point.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: He didn't mention the sermon I preached.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: I was a pastor.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: He didn't mention any sermon I preached.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: He didn't mention some slick evangelism seminar.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: He mentioned the contact of Jesus Christ through a jar of clay, the gospel light shining to this man who was dying and going to hell.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: That's what he remembered.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Because that's when the gospel makes impact.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: If parents would just get that much about example to your point, every church would change across North America and the world.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Amen, it's true, so true.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true Right.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: So I've got something I'd like to suggest to those who are listening who haven't evangelized.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Here's something you can do Get a soapbox and go to the local university and preach the gospel to all those atheists.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: It might be a little difficult.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: So how about getting the gospel on Kariwani Neighbors and share it with them?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of terrifying.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: So how about just getting a gospel tract, taking it out and giving it to somebody?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: Because that's how I bring things.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: When I fast a meal here and there, I think God could tell me to fast 40 days and 40 nights, but I'm just being told to discipline myself.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: It brings it down.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: It's not so hard for me when I think of it in that way.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: So you don't have to go to a local university, you don't have to go to your neighbors, just get some tracts and start dropping them around and say to someone do you get one of these?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: It's got a gospel message on the back.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: Make sure you read it.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: And I love how, mark, you've always, throughout the years, talked about goals.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: You know, set goals, don't let them be unrealistic.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Start small and then build from there, you know.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: So that's so important.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: And, corey, what a delight this has been.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Brother, thank you so much.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Honestly, we could have gone another hour just talking more and diving deeper, but we want people to connect with you.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Sure, friends, you've heard Corey.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: I know you've been encouraged by him, inspired by him.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: I was so blessed years ago, in fact, during COVID, I was invited to go out to Canada, couldn't make it and I sent you instead.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: I recommended you, and those people were so blessed.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: So I know you travel, you speak, you equip people.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: How can people connect with you in your ministry?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the ministry sort of the main page is thecrosscurrentcom.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: That's our main site and you can connect with equipping evangelists through that ministry or through that ministry page and we have all kinds of ways that we can equip churches by example to what we call normalize, sharing the gospel in personal and community relationships.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: That's the goal of the ministry.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Well, brother, it's been a delight to have you Friends.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to end it on that note.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: You know all the good stuff.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast, where all of us, except for Corey, have no idea what we're doing.