Latest / The Weekly Run / Smash or Pass: Bagel Edition | #33

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Smash or Pass: Bagel Edition | #33 · The Weekly Run

• Jeff Perera: Welcome to the weekly run. I'm Jeff. Aaron: I'm Aaron Jeff Perera: And we're here with Danielle today. What's up? Hey! Aaron: And you're Danielle, see, you didn't prep. You didn't prep for that. Danielle: Danielle. Hello. Why am I here? Jeff Perera: Welcome. Than well, you're just a part of the you're part of this little trio now on podcasting, so Danielle: I well, because you had all these guest hosts on while Aaron was gallivanting through Europe and I was not invited, so this is just you trying Aaron: This is this is true. Danielle: to mend fences for my lack of invite to the pod. Aaron: Well, given your influence across the business, I think that's wise and I support said pandering. I'm Danielle: HO! Aaron: I'm a willing participant to keep you happy. Danielle: Fair enough, thank you. How many Jeff Perera: I love it. I love it. Danielle: requests, feature requests, will end up on the pod today? TBD. We shall see. Aaron: Well, you know, no okay, just for level setting, just for level setting here, we only put things on marketing's plate. This is all we do. We Danielle: Fine. Okay. Aaron: come up with some really bad marketing ideas and we throw them out there and that's that's all we do. Okay? Let's Jeff Perera: This is Aaron: not get too far ahead of ourselves on Danielle: Okay. Stay in my lane is what I'm hearing. Stay in my lane. Okay. Aaron: Just yeah, well no, just marketing is free game. You can take as many shots at at great marketing ideas that you have. I just like to keep it there. You know, I'm not Danielle: Fair. Aaron: this isn't this isn't the part of the day where I want to come and get, you know, tasks on my list. Danielle: Fair enough. Okay. Not sure if we should have invited me then. We'll see at the end. Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: Well we'll see how it goes. I think there's always a feature request at least one during the pod Aaron: There seems Danielle: Okay. Aaron: to be. There seems to be. Jeff Perera: they certainly come after the pod, when Danielle listens. Aaron: Yeah, I I yeah, I like to make sure that that stuff's after the rap, you know, there's no public commitments for any of any of these things. Danielle: Every single time I listen, I'm immediately texting the group chat like my f my commentary. Because I completely disagree with half the things you say. And I'm like, no, Aaron: Ha ha ha. Danielle: dude, maple bacon should not be a bagel of the day. And it's like two weeks later, probably when you don't even remember what I'm talking about. Because well, Aaron, you don't listen. But yeah, I have I have lots of thoughts. Aaron: It's Danielle: So now I get to do it live, which is very exciting for me. Aaron: Is this true? This is true. Jeff Perera: today I thought we'd start the conversation with can you schedule creativity? Because the bagel Aaron: Mm. Jeff Perera: of the day conversation last week really sparked a lot of dialogue and discussion amongst the team and you know, two comments we got about the pod on the the bagel sphere. Yeah, the bagel sphere. Aaron: The bagel sphere. We'll just we'll just Jeff Perera: And I just can you schedule creativity? How do we you know, is Danielle: Hmm. Jeff Perera: is a bagel that we're planning six months from now, is that really creative? Is that impromptu? Is that like still drive the same joy? Aaron: It's an interesting question and it now and I'll say just a small anecdote as we get into it. This sort of resonates with me because I think this is something It's an interesting question, I think, in business. And in technology, we sort of deal with this a lot too, because you may not may not seem it, but technology is generally a pretty creative endeavor, right? Like we're trying to create things that that don't exist, whether it be features or whole applications or whatever the sort of, you know, scope of it is, it doesn't matter. Like somebody's sitting down and trying to make something out of nothing. And so can you do that every day? Can you show up and be creative in Innovative, whatever, consistently on a schedule, with a deadline. and it's question that we grapple with, and I'm sure it's ten times harder when it's something I'll say more to the creative thing, like coming up with flavors or food ideas. And how do you systemize that? I don't know how you do that, to be honest. I just get to be on the other side of it and eat my bagels. So How hard do you find it? How hard does the team find it? Because we have to, give credit here too. You guys are actually out in front. This was easy when the schedule of innovation was, my God, it's Saturday and I don't I need bagels for next week. but now that Yeah. Danielle: Untested, untested recipes just going live. Aaron: Exactly, exactly. Now that's creative. That is the fire and passion of creativity. But now that we've got to dictate that to 40 plus stores. That doesn't work. So there's a little bit more lead time. How do you guys get in the headspace for it? Jeff Perera: I think Danielle forces the issue. she has such a steadfast conviction to the schedule because it's and rightfully so. Our franchisees deserve lead time on ordering products, our franchisees deserve lead time on knowing, just what's coming down the pipe when it comes to menu innovation or product development. And so I believe that Danielle is really the bar when it comes to scheduling what that looks like and having a forced reckoning every sixty days of a a calendar needing to be met, it puts a it I don't know if reckon reckoning's Danielle: Reckoning. Woo. Aaron: It's it's what you tell me it's it's always Saturday. It's al to you it's always Danielle: It is always Saturday, yes. Aaron: Saturday. There's always it's always proverbial Saturday. The Danielle: So Aaron: output is just two months in advance, but to you it's Saturday. Danielle: So I think creativity is really interesting because people wouldn't say like in operations you're creative, but I am constantly iterating on things I've built. I feel like iteration is creation. And so I want to Say like anytime you iterate on something you've done or you build something better, that's creativity. And sometimes that happens in the moment. For me, it's like usually a spreadsheet where I've found some secret unlock, or you know, something where I'm improving. Like I think improvement's creativity. So if I'm improving something I've built and making it better. So I think creativity happens all the time. And just cause you are thinking of something for pumpkin season. In August, wait, let's rip when do we start pumpkin season? May, Jeff Perera: April. Danielle: April? Like you're still iterating on a great thought, inspiration. So I think it's still creative. But I think that there's something that happens in like the zeitgeist of pop culture and like where you have to sometimes like quickly make a call on something that wasn't planned, which is annoying for me for sure. But ultimately the right thing to do if it's like capturing a moment in time, like Taylor Swift's new album or I don't know, pick something. also like the calendar's like fairly set. We know like Saint Patrick's Day is the same time every year on Halloween. So I feel like you can get creative with themes or ideas. And even if it is six months away, the inspiration's the inspiration, you know. Jeff Perera: I think the guest yeah, and the guests it for the guest it still feels like spontaneity. Like it doesn't Danielle: Yeah. Jeff Perera: for us it might be planful and it might be thought out, but the guest still sees the spontaneity in something popping up at the right time that's seasonally on trend or Danielle: Yeah. Well they don't know what's coming. It doesn't feel creative for us because we've been talking about it since April, but like these new pumpkin flavors are gonna be like mind blowing to people that didn't know we've been planning it. So some of this stuff I think is gonna blow people's mind and then for us we're like, yeah, old hat, like what's next? We're thinking about, you know, next whatever, Q two of twenty seven. Aaron: You you know, speak for yourself because I'm ready to be re excited and surprised by pumpkin in a couple of weeks, you know, even though I got a full private tasting recorded Danielle: Care. Aaron: of this. So, you know, to each his own. Some of us like to just, you know, enjoy that surprise over and over again. Danielle: You know, I'm not a pumpkin girly, right? You know I'm like kinda throw shade a little bit. this pumpkin strategy is might turn me into a pumpkin person. I'm not sure. But it's very good. So hats off to your creativity, Jeff, whenever it was. Cause I'm might become a pumpkin girl. I don't know. You could sway me. Jeff Perera: The pumpkin season isn't Aaron: If Jeff Perera: as it's not as far away as a couple of weeks, Aaron. It's like next week. It's Danielle: But it's next it's next week. Jeff Perera: Monday. It starts it starts Monday. It is here. Aaron: Yes, let's go. Danielle: T Aaron: Let's go. I I'll pose this as a statement, probably masquerading as a question, or maybe reverse of that. But what Danielle just said is kind of an interesting thought of like, okay, when When we do look at this menu and we do think of like, okay, what is creativity? Like just having something fresh is is like tier one, that's a level of creativity. But going a little bit deeper and being like, okay, what are we really trying to do here? Right? I mean, we're still a business, so are we trying to bring people in the door? Are we trying to show people that we have a wider breadth of options or that it's we're just interesting to follow when there's engagement because you never know when a you know Sesame you know, what what was the the Danielle: Miso sesame. Aaron: miso sesame is gonna hit and be like, what? So, you know, or a load of baked potatoes. So there's just there's a lot of different ways to sort of slice it. So when when you s when you and the team sit down, Jeff, how do you sort of prioritize those objectives of like why you're trying to be creative because I think it guides it guides a little bit. It it dictates what you're trying to do. You know, are we trying to do A or B? I think that would change your approach, would it not? Danielle: Think Jeff ever has a strategy. He just like comes up with shit and says, sorry, can I say a bad word on the pod? He comes up with stuff. Aaron: Huh. We'll find out. Danielle: And he says, Go figure it out. Like, I think you come you personally come from a place of joy and fun and like innovation. And I don't think you're like, I have this strategic idea. This this bagel's gonna bring in X amount of customers per day. No, that's our problem. You're like, how? The ha like you just come up with it and then the rest happens. I don't know. That's just my take, but I'm I have a very different vision coming from the other side of it. Jeff Perera: Y Danielle's definitely right. I see something that I find either extremely delicious or very interesting to explore. And then it brings me such happiness to do it that that gets infused or like imbued into the product. And so something like I don't know how many comments we saw in like I probably got a comment every week, maybe two comments every week from the same Instagram user of post National Bagel Day. When is the Wonton bagel coming back? Day three hundred Aaron: It was me. Jeff Perera: and ninety seven, yeah, you're like burn your his burner account asking for the Wonton bagel. Danielle: Yeah, his burner account. His Aaron: It's my burner. It's my bagel burner. Danielle: f it's been stuck. Jeff Perera: And the w the wonton bagel was really hard to execute. It had a hundred ingredients. It was delicious. And the team in Otown did a great job creating it. But Miso Sesame came out of that as a inspiration point. And like I knew that there Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: was gonna be more than one guest who's really excited about, a flavor inspired from Asian cuisine and this idea of the wonton bagel. And so when we started working on it, It was something that I kind of always had in the back of my mind. I was like, I wonder what this person's gonna think about this bagel. Like I had one specific individual in mind. And it didn't disappoint. They're Aaron: Did you Jeff Perera: super excited. They commented on Danielle: Yeah. Jeff Perera: Sunday when I posted the bagel Aaron: Did they? Jeff Perera: of the day calendar. Yeah, 'cause it's this week where like Miso Sesame is happening. I don't remember what day it is, maybe it's Saturday. but yeah, it's happening again and so it's yeah. Danielle: I'll be there. I'll be there. Don't worry. That's how I feel about like so being that I often see the moment when an idea happens, it's pretty special. loaded baked potato happened at the table I'm sitting at with our neighbors. And Jeff's like, What idea? Like, what's a good bagel of the day idea? And then like our friend was like, Loaded baked potato, and like it was like the light bulb, like you could see it happening, and then now it's my personal favorite. I ate it this weekend, and to see that. go from the moment to the execution. But I think it's all built into the like I think the strategy is the same we've always had is to have like a ongoing daily LTO or like create this demand or this limited supply of an item to, grow demand like on a weekend or a certain day. So I think it's all we've strategized Jeff's creativity. But I don't think you can like give a creative person like Jeff like b too many boundaries. He'll just add it to his ongoing list and hopefully that idea will play in at some point in the future. But every time this man goes out to eat, he's coming up with a new idea. And then I'm like, Jeff Perera: Yeah. Danielle: how are we gonna do it? How we gonna do it, you know? But some of his best ideas, I mean, have made my life much, much better, you know. So Aaron: Well, I mean that that highlights an interesting thought, sort of, of I guess, this whole question of like intentional or strategic creativity. We do see a lot of it with our dough types. Like that's one thing that we do strategically do when you know, when we're looking at new bagel flavors, or probably to your guys' point, the more accurate thing that we do is when we have a winner, we're like, All right, how can we you know, derive from or extrapolate out this winner. And look load of baked potato is a great example 'cause it's got that that green onion dough which became the base of some other, you know, absolute winners. And so Danielle: Miso sesame now on a green onion dough. Aaron: Which I mean honestly just I think there's a whole creative vein of just crossing which we'll see some actually this is coming up, but like just crossing dough types and you know, finished bagel flavors and just creating new combos with that. spicy Abby is a classic example of a very simple crossover that created a whole new bagel. Danielle: Yes. Jeff Perera: I'm having fun experimenting with these existing dough types we have we have our cinnamon roll dough, which is essentially just a cinnamon-based bagel. It's it's not sweet dough. It's very I mean it it punches like square in the mouth with cinnamon. It's like it is all cinnamon. We balance it with that sweet, sweet icing that we put on top. But that cinnamon dough I think has a lot of applications. You know, we could Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: make a lot of different cookie based, like cookie style bagels, I think, with cinnamon. There's a lot of things we can do there. So I've been Danielle: Red hot people? No. Jeff Perera: A cinnamon red hot bagel. Something happens to the Yeah. There's a Aaron: You mean like you mean like the candy, the red hots? Danielle: Like Yeah. Valentine's? I'm just saying. All right. Jeff Perera: there's a lot of stuff coming. I'm I'm really excited about some flavors that I'm getting to play with for for 2027. And I think we're gonna have a lot of fun with well maybe this just should lead right into the next segment that I had planned for this because it's not often that I get two very willing participants in bagel eating on a podcast where I can kick around some ideas. So Danielle: boy. Jeff Perera: this new segment's sort of like the idea of you're like would you eat it? So it's like wo is this a bagel you'd put in your mouth or would you pass? So it's I've I've got Aaron: Well, we we need to workshop like a really shorthand. Jeff Perera: I don't yeah, I know. It's like I Danielle: It's like eater trash or something like that. Okay. Okay. Aaron: Yeah, exactly. I feel Jeff Perera: Eater trash. We can work on this. We c we can work on the segment. Like yeah, but Aaron: like if it's you know, if it's successful we'll we'll invest in a better name. Jeff Perera: We need a d we need a bagel run version of smash or pass basically, is what I'm looking for. So Danielle: Like F Mary Kill, but bagel. Aaron: my god. Jeff Perera: that's hilarious actually. We could do that too. But let's let's start with Kiss Mary Kills what the kids say now. So so I guess Danielle: I think it's kiss marry kill is what the kids say these days, sorry. Jeff Perera: would you eat this or would you not? Is kind of where we're at. So let me pull Aaron: All right. All right. Jeff Perera: my list up. But two easy ones that I'm already thinking about for February's bagel the day calendar. Pretzel bagel. Aaron: I would not. My son would though. Danielle: Yeah, pass. We already have a salt bagel. How are you gonna improve on a pretzel bagel? How are you gonna make a pretzel bagel? Are you gonna are you gonna put it in lie like I need I need more again, this is the problem. I need to know how. Never gonna get a how. Fine. If you did it right, I would definitely do it. But I have to that's like a Aaron: Don't you're gonna you know, you're gonna get yourself excluded from this game if you can't if you can't follow the rules. Jeff Perera: She's it's just gonna be there. What about Okay. It's gonna be right, yeah. Aaron: I would as you have to assume you have to assume that he's gonna do it right. Like I mean, this is we'll work we'll we'll work on Danielle: Alright, then yes. Aaron: the rules too. I would say no, but I know my son would love it. So I think I Danielle: Yeah, my kids would love it. Jeff Perera: Okay. Aaron: acdo I acknowledge that it's a very polarizing flavor. That's an interesting one. And an old like an oldie. So like yeah. Jeff Perera: Yeah, it's kind of a classic but definitely something that people may not lean into. What about red velvet? Aaron: I would again say no, but I know a certain developer on my team that Danielle: Mm. Aaron: would be first in line. You've actually you've actually bribed him with red velvet cake before, so Jeff Perera: Yes, I have. Aaron: you he's this is his, this would be his. Danielle: Also pass for me, but I I only like care for savory ninety-nine percent of the time. Sorry guys. Jeff Perera: Wow. Okay. That's all right. Listen, I am striking out. How about a spinach artichoke bagel? Aaron: That's a winner. Danielle: That yeah. Aaron: I would yes. Jeff Perera: Okay. This is one that Aaron: And I will tell you, I had a I had over the No, last weekend I don't know. Recently had the ricotta honey. And the Danielle: yeah, do you like it? Aaron: blueberry ricotta honey of all things, which is just doesn't know what it wants to be. But it it wants to be delicious. And I feel like the spinach artichoke one would be like that. This some really glummy, cheesy Danielle: With spinach dough. Aaron: Like basically like an artico artichoke dip, like an appetizer level artichoke dip, just like wedged on top, like that ricotta is. Jeff Perera: My vision is like this spinach dough topped with like some I kinda wanna like reduce artichokes, like caramelize them so they're crunchy like Aaron: Ops Daniel's dying. Remember the rules, Danielle. Remember the rules. Jeff Perera: So she's a she would eat Danielle: I Jeff Perera: it. Danielle: will eat it, don't worry. I just gotta ignore the R and D part. Aaron: It's true. Jeff Perera: blueberry honey ricotta is a bagel that wants to be on a charcuterie board. Aaron: That okay, okay. This is what I was literally in O Town so it was two weeks ago because I was in O Town on Saturday and I I had been talking to the front register. We talked about this, she was great, she had a really great experience. But anyways, talking to her again and she's like, hey, how was the the you know the Ricotta Honey Of course, she's excellent. She's great. Front house staff is there Danielle: She remembered Aw de Tear. Aaron: is locked in. So she was asking us, and and the words that I said to her was like, because what we did, we I don't know if I could take down an entire one of those bagels by myself. Like that is a very dedicated flavor. So we diced it up. We were all eating our other bagels, because why just I just Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: bought a lot of them. And so we all just sort of picked at it and we kept coming back. And I was and I said everybody was like, this is kind of like a charcuterie board, because the honey's in there and the cheese is in there, and it just that combo of honey and cheese. It's very you know, cheese bored. And that's exactly Danielle: We are Aaron: what I I said to her and she some I mean Danielle: We often get the bagel of the day in addition to whatever our regular bagel is and we quarter eighth it and everyone takes some. That is the move. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Aaron: You just do the crumble cookie dice and cut it up into little bits and everybody grabs it. Yeah. Jeff Perera: Maybe maybe we need like a bagel divider. Danielle: jeez. Guys. Marketing. This feels d that's the marketing. Do you know how many of those co cookie Aaron: We need to make a bagel divider, that's right. See, these are the ideas that we focus on, Danielle, on this podcast. Yeah, 100%. I tell you what, there's Jeff Perera: More marketing. Danielle: crumble cooker I have many. Many of those cutters. Aaron: I think it just mm. Jeff Perera: And they haven't for the record, they haven't cut a cookie in a very long time. Danielle: No. Shade. Shade. Aaron: I mean like a a bagel divider, Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: a bagel sampler, a sample or slicer. We'll work on this. This is good. Just Danielle: Okay. Workshop, workshop. Jeff Perera: There's something. It's Okay, I've got a couple more flavors for you. One Danielle: boy. Jeff Perera: of these you've tried before and I just wanna get yes, this is one that's hit the it's hit the R and D circuit once and I think it's willing to it's gonna come back again. A salt and vinegar bagel. Aaron: Mm. I didn't we try that at an event? Danielle: Heck no. It was good. It was good. We did it at Jeff Perera: I made one. Aaron: Yeah, there we did that when we were testing so I don't know if say this, not say this, but like I thought chip week was an amazing concept. Danielle: chip week. Aaron: And I was sad to see Chip Week sort of fall back because that the barbe Danielle: Spices, man. Spices. 'Cause we couldn't get the Jeff Perera: Part of Aaron: the barbecue chip bagel was a winner and I actually like salt and vinegar. Danielle: I Jeff Perera: So salt Danielle: don't I don't like salt and vinegar regularly, but you had something there. We have all the spices, by the way, from that vendor that we were working with. Jeff Perera: salt and vinegar so yes so this was a lot of fun salt and vinegar is gonna come back because the Aaron: How do you know? Jeff Perera: Low L Lowry season salt you're familiar with this brand Aaron: Yeah. Jeff Perera: they they make this salt and vinegar seasoning now their parent company is McCormick and we have a partnership with McCormick and they They deployed some samples to us of the salt and vinegar seasoning before it came out. And it's it's very good. It just didn't work into the whole idea of chip week will come back. I think it'll be a twenty seven like program. We're shortening some of the LTO windows and we're filling in some gaps with specialty bagel of the day weeks. And Danielle: That Jeff Perera: Chip Week is gonna be a lot of fun. Aaron: I So coming back to that, what like in your creative process have have the themed weeks been like is that harder? Because like, man, now I gotta like align all these things, or do you find it easier to be given a box to go play in? how you felt about the weeks? Because that wasn't an original thing that you guys ever did. Danielle: Mm-mm. Aaron: Like that's sort of a a recent Jeff Perera: We we did Pizza Week. Pizza Week yeah, Pizza Week Danielle: Yeah. Jeff Perera: was the only one we ever did and that was a lot of fun because I mean I think pizzas and bagels just I mean, a bagel could just be a small pizza. It's it's delicious. Tons of opportunity. Aaron: It's it's that's peanut butter and chocolate, pizzas and bagel. Jeff Perera: absolutely. Blueberry Week was one that came out of a we were doing a content day, Lindsay and I, and she said, she's like, I don't know how you've done it. She's like, But you've got like four blueberry bagels of the day and they're all so distinct and unique and delicious on their own that she's like, They none of are the same. And it was I was like, that's really nice. Thanks. I'm glad, you know, but then I started thinking about it, I was like That's crazy. We're like only three bagels away from doing an entire blueberry week. And so it sort of sparked this idea Danielle: sun dried sun dried tomato week. I feel like there's so many things we could do here. Aaron: Soup week. Danielle: Soup week. my god, one of my very good friends who's like a very giant JBR fan loves soup and she would have many ideas. Yes. Yes. Aaron: Sss soup week, because you've already got the tomato grilled cheese and the French onion soup, so you're just five away. Jeff Perera: That's easy. I mean I was yeah. Aaron: Soups are Danielle: Soup. Aaron: good flavors too, because they're hearty and they're like savory. And there are things that Danielle: That's like a yeah, like November ish, right after Thanksgiving. Aaron: they're things that people remember. Like ever like people remember like a soup flavor, like a classic. Mmm, soup week, there you go. We're just see Jeff Perera: I'm taking notes. Aaron: this is how cre Danielle: Ginger. I feel like there's some ginger flavor going on somewhere in this. Aaron: You could bring the miso over and we can do like a Danielle: Yes! Aaron: can do like a ramen. A ramen it could be one of the days, a ramen bagel. Danielle: Ooh. Jeff Perera: Okay, so we've got ramen, we've got French onion soup. This is it. This is a hundred percent it. Aaron: This is how it happens people, just like this. Danielle: And the next two weeks of my life will be in the aisle of the grocery Jeff Perera: Ha ha. Danielle: store looking at all the ingredients. We've done some chip research and I mean, you know. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Aaron: But the the that's good research though. That's research I could get behind. The real this is But this is why it should be bagels, right? This Jeff Perera: It's too hot to be eating this much soup though. Just fair to be fair, it's too hot. Aaron: is why it should be bagels. But this is the creative Jeff Perera: Okay, my Aaron: process. We all just throw random stuff at Jeff and then he he distills and Danielle: Inspire him. He needs to be Jeff Perera: See what Danielle: activated. This is the thing about Jeff. You just activate him and then it's like and then it's then I have to deal with the aftermath. But like it works really well. His brain is crazy. Aaron: It's great. It's great. Jeff Perera: My last flavor for you that I want to throw out there is a coconut cream pie. Danielle: Ugh. Aaron: Mm. Danielle: No, I hate coconut. Aaron: That's a no. But I do I do like the cream pie aspect. I think there's better cream pies you could do. Jeff Perera: Pie week. Yeah. Aaron: Pie we could be interesting. If you wanted to go sweet and integrate some chocolate, I think you'd be better off going like the moon pie route with Danielle: moon body. Aaron: like, you know, chocolate and then more of a you know, palatable cremin creme glaze or something like that. You know, like just like more of a l a softer flavor on that. I would think a coconut would just be too much. Jeff Perera: Do you know Danielle: Let's Jeff Perera: Do you know what didn't? I was gonna say, you know what didn't you know what didn't work? Was key line pot. Yeah, I gotta bring that back. Danielle: bring back key line pie, but like do it right. Ugh, I s let's improve. Aaron: I so I'm curious you guys' thoughts then while we're sort of in this, you know, would or would not. I don't know that I'm pro citrus and bagels. Full stop. Danielle: How do you have the cranberry orange? You don't like it? I think we should put sugar on it this year. Aaron: have and well Jeff Perera: wow, that face said everything. Aaron: cranberry orange is not bad and and my kids like it. But but they tend to go more s well one of my kids could tend to go more sweet. I think the citrus it's the citrus bitter. So when you go cranberry orange, you get the tart from the cranberry. It's more on the blueberry sort Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: of cinnamon raisin vein, so it it pulls it more that way. But a a key lime is just tart. So I think citrus tart is actually the mist. Danielle: Yeah. But lemon we do a lot of lemony bagels. Are you not a fan of the lemon blueberry? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Muffins. Muff muff muffin week. Jeff Perera: Lemon poppy, blueberry lemon. Aaron: But again it's balanced. Lemon poppy, it's offset, tastes like a muffin. I love you know that. You know? So many weeks. Jeff Perera: Dale's Aaron: Pretty soon. Now we're just backlogged. Jeff Perera: like stacking up. Stacking up. I love it. This is great. Danielle: Like 2028, every week is a week. Like, please, no, let's not do that. Yeah. Aaron: Every week. Hey, it's easy. Jeff Perera: Every week is a week. Well that's fun. Okay, so we just need a better category for this segment. I think we could do this. This could be fun. Danielle: Smash Aaron: I like it. Although I gotta Danielle: or pass. Aaron: tell ya, this has been I mean, it's a lot of passing, Jeff. It's a lot of passing this Danielle: Yeah, sorry, come up with better ideas. Aaron: time. I mean, your first out. We won't we won't Jeff Perera: Yeah. There was a lot of paths. I know. Which will be interesting because I think Aaron: keep score. Danielle: He's doing that on purpose. He's like, just gonna give us the bad ones first and then he'll come back. Yeah. We'll see. Aaron: Is this a low bar? Well Jeff Perera: I don't know. I maybe it's just setting the bar low. Yeah, that could be it. Aaron: I I can't wait for the for the feedback on this because I I loved when when even it was hinted at, even though full caveat was provided that no menu changes were being made. But when people got to comment on bagels coming or going from the standard menu, lots of great feedback. People were back in their favorites or protecting Danielle: you were you were saying something crazy last week and I was upset. I don't know what I already forgot. I was that was me. I was sending messages Aaron: You're one of I dare. Well, but it was Danielle: in all caps. I was very angry. Aaron: There was other stuff on social too about people like, yeah, this one should be in every day. Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: So like we're talking about, you know, bagel flavors is is, you know, sacred ground. Danielle: Yeah. This is how I feel about cream cheese flavors because I have a cream cheese I would like to remove based on Aaron: Mm. Danielle: cost of making it and some other boring things, but Jeff says absolutely not because one person might love it. So okay, does sales dictate whether you should keep an item or not? Or is it fan favorites? Aaron: It's great question. Danielle: The internal debate. Jeff Perera: Do you know which cream cheese she's referring to, Aaron? Aaron: Let me see if I guess. Danielle: It's our most expensive cream cheese to make as an operator. Operator hat, not customer hot. Aaron: And is not popular in your opinion. Danielle: It is on the it's one of the bottom two seller besides vegan. That's not I mean vegan just isn't it's a different yeah. Yeah. Aaron: Like the lowest mover, yeah. Yeah, vegan and butter is different, like our of our staple. I would guess is it the cookies and cream? It is the cookies and cream. There Danielle: Yeah. So many ingredients in there and they're all expensive. Aaron: there is a lot. But you know, cookies and cream is one of those things. See, I feel I Danielle: Yes, you have to have it. Aaron: feel like that would fall into the same cat and and good on the co and we won't name names here, but good on the cookie people. for, you know, making cookies and cream, it's an ice cream. Like if you come with like if you have even when you go to the fancy donut shops, they're like, it's a cookies Danielle: Yes. Aaron: there's always a cookies and cream crumble option. Like they have got these cookie people have convinced us as a society, crumble up these cookies on everything, even where they don't belong. Danielle: P.S. The people that make the cookies never got back to me the time I met them to use licensing for that product. So we have to keep saying cookies and cream. But I I mean Jeff Perera: This is true. Aaron: Yeah. Which you know Danielle: we had a cookies and cream cold foam it's a banger. You have to have it. Aaron: They convince you to put these cookies in everything. And every every restaurant type, every store. Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: Like if you go and order dessert somewhere, they're trying to force it in there too for like random stuff. Like it's everywhere. It's really Danielle: That's why I think our banana pudding's so popular, because we put Nilla wafers in it. I think just cookies in general are very, very good in stuff. And biscoff is coming. You c cookie butter. Aaron: Mm, it's true. And the the cookie butter. Yeah. Jeff Perera: Cookie butter's coming. Cookies make everything better, is I think what Danielle said. Aaron: That's Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: well, you know, you did make a very s I don't think it's really that much of a hot take or a bold statement, but accurate is that if it can be ice cream, it can be a spread. And it Danielle: I Aaron: you know, this is a proven fact. I mean, ice creams just have cookies broken up into Danielle: I do Jeff Perera: So it can? Danielle: not think mint chocolate chip should be an ice cream, guys. I know goodbye ice cream summer and it was fun. Some people loved it. I ooh, I Aaron: It was good. It was it was good. Danielle: don't like mint chocolate chip ice cream, so therefore I'm not a not in is not a fan. But people Aaron: That was a good spread. Danielle: loved it, so Jeff Perera: think when I say if it can be ice cream, it can be cream cheese. I think just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. And Danielle: Yeah. Fair. Jeff Perera: that's fair. I think there's Danielle: That's why we should do more of this. So let's do this for cream cheese flavors too and we can well, I'm not coming back, I guess. I don't know. I'm like acting like I'll be invited back after this. But if you Yes. Jeff Perera: I think sometimes when the creative spirit takes over, I have to remember that we still run a commercial business and I need to make sure that it's something that just because it sounds delicious and a few people really, really like it, it doesn't mean it's worthy of a place. Because it still has to be a commercial success, in my opinion. Danielle: I think we are learning. Like I think we've learned a little bit more about R D over the last year. And we talk a little bit about who should be the people taste testing it operationally. Cause sometimes that group gets a little too small and narrow. And then it gets to operators and they're like, who approved this, right? We never want that as a company. It happens occasionally. There's a we not less and less as we have more and more stores, but I think it's you want of the right audience to test things. You don't want too big of an audience 'cause it's almost the opposite is you have too many cooks in the kitchen, not everyone's gonna like everything, but I think we've learned some lessons that not every flavor should be. Aaron: But that's an interesting sort of note and and you're right, I think, on sort of what graduates and what makes it is that that filter's important, but it does sort of lean into like how the innovation side has to have structure and how the creativity has to have you know, non-creative elements, I suppose, to it, if you want to sort of create that that conflict. But one thing that I thought really worked well, and maybe it would be an exciting way to sort of approach this, is I thought when we last year tested a bunch of things at our our franchise event at the end of the year that we do internally to the company. But it that's a great audience because you've got a nice cross-section of, you know, they're they're owners, their operators, they're, you know, obviously they're still fans and customers of the business. It's you know, a hundred extra pallets, so it's a good sort of zone to test it. It's also a battlefield to test it in. Danielle: like we tested remember we tested the the different sh sugar free vanilla flavors and it was literally a fifty fifty split and it was Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Perera: That's it. Danielle: great because I was like, I don't have to make the change. So I think we should do that. Like have them, you know, live vote on the screen. Aaron: But it's an interesting yeah, but it it's an interesting time though, because now, granted you can't talk about innovation talking Danielle: You gotta be six months out. Yeah. Aaron: about being creative on a calendar, like being ready to test all new flavors in one single event's not is not, you know, probably ideal, but but you bring up a good point as far as okay, how do we validate this? Because yeah. Jeff Perera: It is a fun like peek behind the curtain, right? It gives them a little of that like Wizard of Oz, like look who's back here and there is something special about that and so including people in the process is fun. And Danielle: I yeah, and I do feel like at these conferences and I've been in many, many, mostly in corporate America, obviously only one with Jeff so far, but there is always something you have to reveal, right? Every pyramid, right, has to reveal Aaron: Yes. Danielle: something. I have a reveal. Finally I figured out what I'm revealing. But I think that, yeah, it's exciting. Aaron: For this year's man. You're you're way ahead of shocot. Danielle: I have a lot to a lot of work to do. But it's gonna take me a a minute, right? So I have I had an idea. It's not it's not that I think it's very exciting. It's an operational function that will drive efficiency. I'll just put it that way. None. Zero. Zero. Yeah. so I think people will be happy. Aaron: How many tech requests come with this how how I fantastic. I love your reveal. It's the best reveal ever. Let's stick with it. I'm behind it. Jeff Perera: amazing. Danielle: So like Jeff, you need to get ready. Like it what's today? It's August, so you have a few months. So you better I'm gonna activate you right now. You better have like ten things for everyone to try. And then I'm gonna make a poll, like a live poll on the screen and we can get feedback. Jeff Perera: I love it. Pretzel and red velvet. It's comin'. No Chip week. Chip week for sure. Danielle: We can do more. How about chip week chip week part two? Aaron: we were promised soup week and chip week and I'm Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: sure listen, we only need five more minutes to come up with this Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: part of this is my favorite part of innovation where I can just throw stuff out. I have very little accountability. No, no, no, there's zero Danielle: Yeah. You don't have to worry about any of it. It's great. Aaron: accountability. This is why I'm such a great marketer on this on this podcast as well, because I have to see nothing Jeff Perera: This is why. Aaron: through and produce no results whatsoever. Danielle: No Jeff Perera: This is why when we're like in Danielle: phone. I want that job. That'd be great. Jeff Perera: this is why we're when we're in meetings together we're like, we should do this, Aaron and we throw features out at him and he has it's a similar yeah. Aaron: Yeah, that's not fun. That's not nobody likes that. We shouldn't do that. Danielle: Yeah, I c well, Aaron did give me a told you so today about cre I know. I know. Aaron: I was that thing was locked and loaded. Just so you know. Just so you know, they're always locked and loaded. I I am an elephant and I never forget. Danielle: I'm glad. It was great. I it was deserved, so Aaron: Ha ha. Jeff Perera: This was so fun to have you, Danielle. Thanks for being on the pod this week. I know, it goes fast. I mean I will say it's probably Danielle: yeah, that's it. So quick. That goes fast. Aaron: That's h that's how they go. See they're they're so much easier to produce and to listen to. Like, you know, you gotta drive all the way downtown Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: from your house to get through, you know, an episode. But we just bang out like that. Danielle: It's wild. Jeff Perera: We are launching pumpkin next week, so let's Danielle: Let's go. Jeff Perera: be excited about pumpkin season. We're kicking the week off with seven pumpkin bagel of the day flavors, five brand new pumpkin flavored Aaron: So good. Jeff Perera: bagels of the day. So excited. There's I don't know, three drinks, Danielle, right? Three drinks. Danielle: Yes. Jeff Perera: Three new spreads. Technically they're not well two they're not new. Pumpkin spice cream cheese comes back. Maple brown sugar comes back and we're bringing pumpkin spice into our vegan as a vegan recipe. So we'll have vegan pumpkin spice as well starting on Monday, which I think's Yeah, it's gonna be really Danielle: Yeah, the plant based community is gonna go wild over this. It's very it's really exciting. As someone who, you know, talks to customers every single day, I think this one's gonna be so well received and excited for that. Aaron, what is gonna be your first like what is your purchase at JBR the day pumpkin season happens? Like what's your go to? Pumpkin pumpkin pumpkin? Like are you gonna be like a pumpkin bagel, pumpkin spice, cream cheese, pumpkin spice latte? Hot, right? Aaron: Well I have. Yes. Yes. It's always always trips, yeah. Every time. Danielle: Okay. Aaron: Every time. I'm willing pff what am I gonna put on it? Like cookies & cream Like it's ridiculous. Nobody buys that. Who does that? No, I mean my Jeff Perera: Nobody who does that? Nobody's buying that green cheese. Danielle: I can't. Aaron: my only my only caveat to that, just 'cause I don't wanna be, you know, branded Danielle: Okay. Aaron: somebody that misrepresents themselves on this podcast is that I've been told that for certain bagels like pumpkin pie, you skip the pumpkin spice and you do the butter. What's our we got like a cinnamon butter. Danielle: cinnamon honey Jeff Perera: Cinnamon honey butter. Danielle: butter. Aaron: Cinnam yes, and so it melts and then it tastes like tastes more like pumpkin pie when you do that. So that was a pro tip I got from Danielle: o Town Aaron: yeah, from O Towns, my my people. But they hit me up on that, so I'm like, that is when the pie variance of pumpkin comes up, I have to swap out of the spice spread and then into that and then I'm back. But like standard that's there's Danielle: Pump pumpkin pie is so good. Like I can't wait for that bagel. Aaron: I I'm gonna be running for my house to work for for that week, for next week I guess, because seven Danielle: Yeah. Aaron: for seven bagel the days is rough. Jeff Perera: When pumpkin pie first int Danielle: You better go to the gym. Jeff Perera: when pumpkin pie first Aaron: I'm gonna be doing two a days for that. Jeff Perera: when pumpkin pie first introduced it was Danielle ate it and she's like this might be my new favorite bagel. Danielle: It is. it's like up there with loaded baked potato as far as like favorite bagels of the day ever. But loaded baked potato I can get like once a month. Pumpkin pie I'm only gonna be able to get like for a quarter, which is a problem. I Aaron: That's why it's so good. Danielle: know. Jeff Perera: And it starts the week off, just so everyone it's the first one. Monday. You gotta start Danielle: It's the first one, one day Yes. Aaron: It's the first one. Jeff Perera: if you're pu if you're gonna start pumpkin season, you gotta start it with pumpkin pie. Aaron: There's some new ones in this lineup though that are gonna be we're gonna c you're gonna be converted, Danielle This lineup's gonna convert you. I'm convinced of this. This lineup's good. Danielle: Like I think pumpkin as a base is good, but I want stuff on top. And Jeff is gonna deliver that seven days in a row. So I'm here for it. Jeff Perera: So good. Well, this was a super fun episode. I'm glad you were here, Danielle. Thanks, Aaron. Hey, you are you're always welcome. You just Danielle: Thanks for the invite. Appreciate it. Jeff Perera: say, Hey, I'd like to be on the pod and we're like, we'll let you on. Danielle: I'll listen and then I'll go back to you. I might change my mind. We'll see. Jeff Perera: All right. Aaron: It was only three months after the last time you were on, so maybe that's your maybe that's your cycle time. Danielle: Yes, that's a sign. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Jeff Perera: needs a little little break in between. Awesome. We'll bake fresh, bring joy, build community, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Danielle: You guys are funny.