Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Bravo Psychotherapist Melissa Reich talks: RHONJ, Kim & Kroy, and Epigenetics

Transcript

Bravo Psychotherapist Melissa Reich talks: RHONJ, Kim & Kroy, and Epigenetics · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

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Drama, Darling Drama, Darling Drama, Darling. Well, Darlings, welcome
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back for a very very very very interesting introspective episode. Today, my bish
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therapist is back, Melissa Reich. How you doing? How you doing?
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Amy? Your bish therapist in the house. I'm so excited, so excited.
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I'm so happy to have you back. And if you're not following my
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bish therapist, you can on She's on Instagram. Can you tell people where
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you are? You've got your Instagram going right? Yes. Last week I
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started my Instagram with two followers, and today I have you and me or
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pretty much the first two, and today I have almost a thousand. I'm
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zious. That's so exciting. Area. I'm honored, I'm grateful, I'm
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overwhelmed. I'm perplexed. I can't you know. I'm just I'm so appreciative
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to the Darlings who have embraced me and just been so kind and loving,
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and I'm just so grateful. The Darlings are the best. And here's what
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I will say about this, that they know good material, you know,
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And that's just a compliment for myself. No, I'm kidding, they know
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like they're hungry for an interesting perspective on all of this madness that we sift
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through on a daily basis. So it is really an interesting thing to have
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connected with you and to get your professional opinion on all this, because it
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really sheds a lot of light. It confirms of what a lot of us
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are thinking. A lot of the times we try to put our psychology hats
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on and we we say, well, they're a sociopath. Well they're a
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narcissistant, you know, so it's kind of interesting, like they're projecting and
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deflecting. It's really we are hungry to get those confirmations from someone who actually
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knows and has a degree about what they're talking about. So that's what I
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love about our community is that, you know, we've got an intelligent We're
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not just followers of reality television. You know. We take in all right,
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you know, we take in all aspects of entertainment and of life.
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And so many people have so many important jobs and they have so many informed
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experiences. So when it's when it comes together with therapy and reality television,
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it's our escape. And yet it's the study of the psychology of people.
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And I think that's what's the most intriguing. So I love that people are
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following you because you've got a lot to say about it and have got great
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perspectives as well as professional opinions, which we always say, and we have
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a disclaimer that she is you know, what is your disclaimer? Anyway?
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Yes, it's okay. I don't expect you to. Uh. My disclaimer
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is that the you know, I'm a therapist, but I'm human, right,
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so I'm not saying my opinion is the only right one there is.
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I am not that narcissistic to believe that. I uh am just one hundred
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percent right. Uh. But the disclaimer is that everything we're talking about today,
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everything we have talked about during the scand of all, I am not
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diagnosing anyone. That would be highly unethical. I you know, and people
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online have you know, I've had some people come out of the woodwork and
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say, you're an ethical you should lose your license and all this stuff and
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for having an yeah, for having an opinion? Yeah, except okay,
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wow interesting yeah so, but but to be fair, it would be unethical,
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right if I was coming on here saying, stand of all, is
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this and you know, Kim is this. I'm not going to do that.
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But what I aim to do here is take the fodder of reality TV
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and turn it into something that can really help people to talk about, you
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know, today, you know, we'll talk about generational trauma and epigenetics and
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all these other factors. So that really is my main goal. Now,
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Melissa the Bravo fan can be sassy, but Melissa the therapist is just trying
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to give information. So I'm not here to diagnose. I am not here
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to treat. I am not here to claim that I am the end all
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be all. This is my thoughts, feelings, and reactions based on my
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clinical experience. Yeah, and I like when these two meet because it's you
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know, we've talked about this before, but like, for example, the
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ladies from the Bravo docket, you know, the taking. Yeah, it's
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the same type of thing. They're taking their legal knowledge and their combined it
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with their love for reality television and really doing the Lord's work like you where
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you're just kind of exposing some things that we may not understand and for the
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better of not only our understanding, but for humanity to get to know human
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nature too. From your perspective and how they talk about you know, the
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legalities of it all that we can't understand. So I think it's so fascinating
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and I just love it. I mean, because there have been so many
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times when I'm a show, I'm like, oh, I wish we had
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a you know, a professional therapist to chime in on this and just to
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kind of explain what this means or what are we seeing or what could this
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be? And so I really love it. But you were here for Scanned
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of All and that was super interesting. You can obviously find that episode on
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Patreon. Now you're here today to talk about a couple of things, actually
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the Jersey reunion, and you're going to touch a little bit on the Kim
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and Kroix situation. Absolutely, and you know, going back to the Bravo
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docket ladies, I just want to thank them and give them a huge shout
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out because they they reposted something that I posted and sent me a very lovely
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message and that is what got me kind of blown up overnight. So I
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love I agree. I love the work that they do. I think they're
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amazing, and I just want to say thank you and give them a shout
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out. Oh that's so sweet. Why don't we kind of talk about,
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you know, on the heels of the reunion Jersey Reunion three, which was
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was really and I've talked about this, you know, obviously this week which
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was or last week that it was very sad for me. It was one
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of those moments where I actually understood when people say I need to dip out
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for a little while, because I am like, well, this seems like
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really the end for them, and I can't see them filming together ever again.
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And if they do, they better this would never happen. But the
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only way that they can film together is if they genuinely just stop fighting,
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because anything beyond that, it's just we need to break. They need to
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break. It's too difficult to watch these family members being tortured by each other
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emotionally at this point. I mean, it is very entertaining in the past
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and it causes us to you know, it makes it such a great show.
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But at this point I do feel very very sad, and I feel
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like there's so much selfishness going on and so many miscommunication situations and also toxic
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situations with Louis involved. But so on the heels of the Jersey Reunion.
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How are you feeling about that? What are your perspectives? Melissa Oh my
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good God, I'm exhausted, I mean sincerely, so I really have watched
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Jersey from season one, episode one, and I will admit during the pandemic,
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I think we all had different Bravo shows that we used for comfort,
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and Jersey was mine for someone godly reason. And I'm just with all of
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you when we say we're just so sick of it. It's just watching people.
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You know. The one thing I posted on my Instagram which got a
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lot of feedback, was the one thing that made the show so compelling is
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now causing its downfall. Why is that right? And to me, the
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reason for that is because we all have grown, Right, it's been ten
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thirteen years, so watching the same people do the same stale, kind of
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toxic, emotionally mature stuff, it just gets exhausting. And honestly, what
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you all are experiencing is what therapists can experience, which is kind of like
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empathy fatigue, compassion fatigue, which is like we've had enough of it,
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and there's a feeling you get like when I've done therapy before, because I've
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done therapy with families like this, and when you get to a point where
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you're just stuck because no one's willing to take any accountability, to admit any
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of their character defects, shortcomings, things like that. These relationships they just
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either implode or they just kind of die off in my experience, and we're
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seeing in imploding. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible because truth of the matter
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is, I don't understand how there are teams. There's no teams. They're
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all wrong, you know, like Melissa and Joe have done stuff, and
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Teresa and and Joe and now Louis, they've all done a lot of things
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that have contributed to this turmoil over the last ten years. And none of
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them, and I mean this sincerely, none of them are willing to say
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I was wrong and I'm sorry. Oh not close, No, not ever,
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not for anything. And they both have things to apologize for, you
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know. So I think it's just really sad and disheartening for me because one
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of the things that I talked about in my posts that got a lot of
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attention was the concept of generational trauma. Generational trauma, there are actually research
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to support that there's genetic components where families ancestors who have experienced trauma pass that
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down genetically to you know, generations and that's why you see generation after generation
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being estranged from family, right, I mean the first couple seasons of Jersey,
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we saw it with Kathy Wakeley's mom and you know Teresa's parents, right,
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yeah, no, no, right, So the estrangement piece has been
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part of their generational trauma, and in my opinion, they are are just
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repeating the same patterns. Yeah, when Teresa said, my you, his
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daddy used to say, honor me when I'm alive, not when I'm dead,
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And I thought, well, why didn't he do that for his cousin
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or his sister. I'm sorry, exactly, yeah, exactly, you know.
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And so I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of missed
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up opportunities, and it's really tragic because the fact is that No No and
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No No are gone and Teresa and Joe, you know, that's all they
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have. But they're just both so unwilling to take accountability to move forward,
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and it's just very hard to watch. So I'm with you in terms of
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Jersey was always one of my favorites. But I don't see any possibility of
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how they could all come back and co exit. Now. I don't see
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that. Do you think that if Louie hadn't entered the picture, that we
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would be in this place, or perhaps Louis accelerated the process and got to
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the place that they would have ultimately gotten to. Whether or not Louie entered
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the picture, that is a great and inevitable because of how their pattern is.
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Like part of me thinks Louise here escalated it and got to the point
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where they would have probably gotten to anyway, because something else would have happened.
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I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, those are all
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good questions and good points, and I have a lot to say about Louie
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a lot. Well. To answer your question, Teresa only surrounds herself with
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what I call echo chambers. So echo chambers are people who aren't going to
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ever call you on your staff or tell you that you're wrong. That's why
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I think we've seen her have a lot of really choppy relationships, you know,
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very severe relationships with Jacqueline and with you know, Dina, and with
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you know, all these different people. If it weren't Louie, I believe
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it would have been somebody else that perpetuated this. But I, in my
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opinion, I believe that Louis accelerated it. I think the fire was burning
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and when he came in, it was like pouring gasoline onto the fire,
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which is insane because you know, he came into Jersey with this very nama
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stay, I love therapy, I'm a healed person kind of attitude. And
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I'm just gonna go ahead and say the lie detector determined that was a lie.
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What is with the way that he can switch? Because Joe Gorga made
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such an amazing observation and really articulated it perfectly that he's like God, the
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way that you can just switch, I thought that is, you know,
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it really something for Joe to say that, because he can go from zero
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to one hundred in his te But it's different, right because he's mad.
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He can be resting mad and then he just gets more mad. Whereas Louis
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feigns that he's not a stay like you said, and he's calm and he's
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trying to work it out. He's a living and he's just trying to you
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know, because it's what your sister wants. And then all of a sudden,
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watch yourself. You know, it's like, how what is that behavior?
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What is that personality where you can switch like that. It's so funny
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you mentioned that, because I have that in my notes. You know,
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I don't often agree with choke Orga, right. I don't agree with any
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of them really because I think they're all wrong, but or all part of
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the problem, should I say, But in that moment, Jorgora hit the
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nail on the head and when So essentially what I my clinical interpretation of his
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of Louis's behavior is that when you have these very sudden mood shifts, that
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indicates a lot of things. But to me, what it indicates is that
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someone can try to have a facade, right, a mask, but their
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behavior is always going to tell the truth. So you know, there's also
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a saying in you know, behavioral psychology is that past behavior is the best
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prediction predictor of future behavior. So I think that Louis has had a lot
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of emotional and relationship and stability of his past, and you know, he's
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claiming to be healed and to be different, and so this this rapid mood
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shift where you go from threatening to I don't know what he was threatening to
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do to those people, but he was threatening something. And in the in
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my opinion, in the creepiest way possible. It was like this weird under
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your breath, like like if you're gonna, if you're gonna say it,
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say it. So to me, it just indicates that he is not as
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healthy as he would like to believe, or he says that he is.
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There is an instability to his emotions and his personality. Healthy people don't jump
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that quick, right, right. So for example, this really stood out
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to me at the end of the reunion when he got up to shake Joe
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Orga's hand and Frank Catania, right, I'm thinking, what are you all
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doing? Yeah? Sports games, like what you do at the end of
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the sports Yeah, this is so phony. It's so wild to me.
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And for John Fuda, who, oh my god, Fuda for president.
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I appreciate John Fudah so much because he was the only person who was like,
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no, no, I believe John Fudo when he said, if you
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own up to this, all will go past it. Yeah, right,
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I believe he meant that. And Louie's just not capable of authentic, bold
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truth. He's just not Louis. Clearly, here's the fodder you know from
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whether it's you know, social media or whatever. And I think he tells
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us or says things the fans want to hear, but his behaviors don't match,
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and so that tells me that he's at the very least not being truthful,
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and probably you know, way more than that when he is lying,
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because I'll say it. But when he's lying through his teeth, it is
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so unreal how he can be so committed too lying and you can see him
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committed to it so hard because he's justifying, like he has justified in his
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head. I did not hire Bo Didl because Bo Didl and I discussed this
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and Bo Didl was just going to do this for me as a favor.
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So technically I didn't hire him. So I'm not lying right now. I
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didn't. I didn't. I didn't investigate you. You know, Bo Didel
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investigated here. I didn't investigate. I didn't have you investigated. He went
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ahead and did that based on a conversation we had because I wanted to get
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dirt on you. You know, it's like when you see in your experience
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with people who are compulsive liars or just good liars, what are the attributes
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of that like in their head? Because it looks like they're telling the truth.
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So what is going on in their head when they're creating this lie?
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Is is it? That? Is it that they're justifying it? How do
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they do it without a tell? So that's a great question. I would
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argue that Clint I can tell you what his tell is. Oh, most
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people don't recognize it. But the first thing is is that when people are
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compulsive, pathological liars, they believe their lie, so to them it's truth
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because and this is what drove me crazy too about the scan of all stuff
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is like when people are over focused on these tiny little semantics, it is
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an immediate red flag that they are lying, covering something up, trying to
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deflect. That's what people, you know, people who are narcissistic, people
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who are controlling, people who lie. They use these tactics because they work
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focusing on the details, like going into the minutia of stuff is what you're
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saying, Yes, as soon as I find families, couples, whatever,
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getting in to the minutia, it's it's all bs. It's not about the
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minutia. It's about the stuff underneath it that no one wants to talk about.
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Because I find when people get stuck in the minutia, they're too focused
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on being right, and you know there are actually there are people who you
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know, can pass lie detector tests from being a pathological liar because they believe
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their own lies. It's not a lie if you believe it. Is that
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why they're not allowed in court? Why they don't allow Yeah, well,
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I mean and again the Bravodacul ladies could speak more to this than I,
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but they are just notoriously unreliable for that reason, but also because you know
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it relies on heart rate and you know a lot of biological factors that when
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healthy people are in a situation of being accused of something that they didn't do,
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like, they're gonna have some physiological reaction to that. So so a
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lie detector really doesn't do a great job in my opinion. And part of
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this is, you know why they're not admissible in court because it's just too
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inconsistent. Right, But Louie, oh my gosh, he let me ask
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you, Yes, another question about Louie, because you said that you know
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his tell. Is that something that you would be willing to share or is
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that like too far? No? I can share it, And thank you
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for reminding me, because when I think about all this stuff, my brain
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goes in a million different directions, so I appreciate mine. Bringing me back
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to that, Louie's tell is his nonverbals. And I'll be specific, but
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for people who are listening to this, who are wondering, how can you
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tell nonverbals? Always, and I mean always give people away because part of
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your your behavior, some of it is unconscious. So there are times where,
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for example, Randall Emmett, when we talked about the Randall scandal,
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there was a video of him where he talked about it not being true and
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he subtly shook his head like this. But to me, that gave him
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away, because you know, you'd have to watch it kind of to see
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what I'm talking about. With Louie, he gets this face where he kind
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of scrunches his forehead and he gets these two little lines here, and his
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face starts to get red and flushed, which I also have some more thoughts
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on that. Yeah, yeah, I have some other He gets this face
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like like very Zoolander, you know, very blue blue eyes or whatever.
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Yeah. Yeah, like he's trying to keep it together and be the bigger
24:07
person, but you can just tell that there's rage bubbling in him. And
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when he makes that face is when the nasty stuff comes out, the kind
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of threats, the you know, the mood shift that we're talking about.
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The face is his to me? Is his tell? Okay, well,
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okay, that's phenomenal observation. Is there something too? Is there any credit
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due to Louis for trying to control the demons because we know that they're there.
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He knows that they're there. That's why he does warriors or why he
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he is has been on a journey and a path to better himself that I
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do leave. I mean, that's why at the very beginning, I felt
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like I was willing to go out on a limb and just say, you
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know what, you know I've done. I've been a part of weird groups
25:11
where I've tried to like better myself, and so what if he was on
25:14
an island things got a little weird, Like he sent a weird message.
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There were shirtless Okay, totally bizarre, but like at least his heart was
25:25
in the right place of trying to be a better man. Is there something
25:30
there where we could say I mean, it's literally the angel and the devil,
25:37
and the devil continues to win over him in when he is put in
25:41
the pressure pressure cooker, because he clearly doesn't have control over any of this,
25:48
because he is easily pushed to the place where he you know, red
25:52
faces and he goes bonkers. But is there any credit due to him for
25:57
growth and at least his either fake or authentic efforts in trying to be a
26:07
better person. Yeah, that's a great point and a great question. My
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here I get Here's the thing. I get it because ultimately, well,
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Amy, you're just a sweet, lovely human, and people who are sweet,
26:26
lovely people, we do want to see the best in people, right,
26:30
because all all good people have character defects, you know, flaws,
26:37
characteristics that aren't great. But the reverse is also true. Unhealthy people have
26:47
some really great qualities and characteristics, you know. So I do think there's
26:53
some parts of Louis that are uh, you know, that are that are
27:00
great. He is seems genuinely interested in self improvement. I just don't think
27:06
he's able to be authentically real enough with himself to fully engage in that process,
27:14
if that makes sense. Yeah. I think he has the desire to
27:18
be and do better, but the behavior keeps falling short because he's missing he's
27:26
missing something in his healing process, and this is not the time to go
27:30
on a reality show. Like if you are someone who's dealing, who is
27:34
trying to be a better person, and you really do have some big demons
27:38
to conquer, this is the worst place for you to go. This is
27:44
a pressure cooker for a mental breakdown for a healthy person. I mean,
27:49
you're at a reunion and you've got family, and you've got people who are
27:53
provoking you whether you're right or wrong. I mean, people have Manila envelopes
27:59
in every behind every pillow or cushion on that set. And so it's almost
28:08
like I would believe when you see his family, you know, and you
28:12
see how well that they function from we don't see it all obviously, but
28:18
you see, you know, sides of that. You see that his family
28:22
is intact. His sisters love him, his mother loves him. And again,
28:27
and you could probably speak to this, but what we see clearly isn't
28:32
exactly all of the details. So we don't really know what's going on behind
28:36
closed doors. But when I have seen that in the past, I'm going,
28:38
well, it can't be that bad. I mean, he seems like
28:41
a real hero to these guys, So why is he such an absolute disaster
28:45
in this scenario, what were you going to say? Yeah, go ahead,
28:51
and if you want to say something about that. Uh, you know,
28:56
I think the same thing sometimes too, about Melissa and Joe Gorgon,
29:00
Right, because Melissa is able to keep her relationships with her family, Joe
29:03
is able to have relationships with her family. Right. It's it's a very
29:07
similar good pointing. Yeah, you know, so, so that's what I
29:11
mean when people who are unhealthy and unhealed, they can't have these good qualities
29:17
and characteristics. But we don't. You're right in that we don't know the
29:25
behind the scenes with his family, you know, are are they just enabling
29:30
bad behavior? Are they echo chambers of right? You know, you're the
29:34
best. Great. We love people who have who have teams of echo chambers.
29:40
Yeah, it could be two people who found each other there. Yeah,
29:42
that's a really good point. Yeah. Interesting, right, So you
29:48
know I think that while it does bode well for them that they can maintain
29:55
these relationships, my clinical opinion would be that there's probably something behind the scenes
29:59
with our families that were not seeing that does involve echo chamber. And you
30:04
know, there's one other interesting thing that I picked up on that I wanted
30:08
to share with the warrior stuff. Yeah, so remember when all that stuff
30:14
came out, and you know, he got trolled, which you know,
30:18
I didn't love because self improvement there's a lot of different ways to engage in
30:22
it. You know, let's not judge each other's process. But it did
30:26
seem, you know, a little odd. And he came out and said
30:30
something about how they manipulated him into proposing. Do you remember that they manipulated
30:40
him into proposing And it wasn't his real intention. He just got caught up
30:45
in the moment. Right at this reunion, your BESH therapist picked up a
30:48
little tidbit amy and someone was making fun of him about the warrior tattoo that
30:56
he has on his chest, and he got that, he got that intense
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look and he goes in, I'm proud of it. So which is it?
31:04
You're proud of it and you totally support and stand by your behavior when
31:11
you were there, or they manipulated you. You know that that doesn't that
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doesn't track for me, And that's what I That's what I mean when eventually
31:22
people they give themselves away because you can't when you lie about a lot of
31:29
things. You can't be consistent with all your lives. It's just not humanly
31:32
possible. And so these are the little nuggets that I kind of you know,
31:38
I get excited when I see because that's that's an unbelievable nugget. And
31:42
also to piggyback on that he has been saying, you know, Bo Didal
31:49
and the investigation, He's like, I made that up. I just I
31:53
just made that up. You know, when Louis first came into the picture,
32:00
he acted like he wanted to help and mend and support, and then
32:06
as soon as he and Teresa get married, all of a sudden, he's
32:09
trying to pull her out of the snake pit. So which is it?
32:13
You know, like it's it just doesn't track to me. Yeah, so
32:16
what does that mean? I don't understand how that went. People are saying,
32:22
like he you know, that's what a narcissist does. They try to
32:25
isolate you. But and I was talking about this last week where I was
32:30
like, well, he didn't isolate her originally, Like, and that's what
32:34
they do, is they I don't think they wait around for a better time.
32:37
They just immediately start doing it. Or do they Oh, oh okay,
32:42
they're patient. They're patient, and they can wait. I have absolutely
32:50
uh, you know, I have worked with domestic violence survivors and there are
32:55
absolutely uh. There's a period of sending your your fake representative and trying to
33:07
pull someone in, and then as soon as someone feels like they're in,
33:10
then the behavior starts. So yes, it can be delayed, it can
33:15
be I don't know, you know, only he knows what his goal is
33:23
in terms of the isolation. It appears, it appears to me that he
33:32
he only wants he and thereesa to be involved with people who are complete echo
33:38
chambers. That I can say, and you know, they're not people who
33:45
want to hear any other feedback, Like when I'm being an asshole. My
33:51
husband needs to tell me I'm being an asshole, because even though you know
33:54
I'm a therapist and I'm a lovely person, I'm human and I need feedback.
33:59
You know, we all need honest feedback to truly grow. And I
34:05
can tell you one thing for sure is that Teresa and Louie and Joe and
34:09
Melissa, none of them want it. None of them are open to it,
34:13
none of them are interested in it. They don't want that. Well,
34:16
I One of the things that I liked about Louie was that he would
34:20
call Teresa out because she would actually listen to him. That is Amy,
34:27
I had the same thought. I thought, man, before they got married,
34:30
he used to call her out on her bullshit all the time. She
34:35
I wonder why that's stopped. Hmmm, because it was never authentic. Really,
34:44
I don't believe it was authentic, because if it was authentic, he
34:49
would still You don't just flip flop on that. You know, you don't
34:57
support someone reconciling with their family and try to be a bridge and then turn
35:01
it around and blow up the bridge. You That's that's not that's not a
35:07
healthy appropriate response. So it makes me question was it ever authentic. I
35:13
don't believe that it was. I also you you talked about in one of
35:17
your podcasts, feeling like he did it because he kind of has a God
35:23
complex and he wanted to be the savior. That really resonated me with me
35:29
when you said it, Amy, because I think there also is some truth
35:31
to that, and when he realized that he can't, like he's just continuing
35:37
to look bad and he's not garnering any any attention from that He's like,
35:42
oh, well, now I'm done with this too, you know. Wow,
35:45
wow, Wow. Now I'd love to talk a little bit more about
35:51
the epigenetics thing that you had mentioned before, because that's a that is a
35:55
term. I don't know if you would call it a term, but I've
35:59
just seen it more recently that it's a more widely accepted Would you call it
36:07
a concept or what would you call it? A scientific theory? What would
36:10
you call it? Yeah, I'd call it a scientific theory, okay,
36:14
but there is it's not just a theory. There is scientific research. It's
36:21
newer, but there is current scientific research to support the theory as well.
36:27
Well. I found it interesting that you mentioned that because I've just stumbled across
36:30
this in my TikTok scrolling about people talking about this and that it's now becoming
36:37
you know, accepted, that it is real, that there is research to
36:43
support it, and that it is molecular like it is, you know,
36:47
our behavior seeps literally seeps into our system and can form you know, cells,
36:59
and and they're for create the genes and then we physically pass that on.
37:04
So I and this is a concept that I cannot even begin to articulate
37:08
that was the worst explanation, but it's something that i've just not I'm just
37:14
now, you know, tripped on it, and and I'm fascinated by it.
37:19
So when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh,
37:21
because I want to know everything I possibly can about it, because it says
37:23
so much about it gave me a lot of hope for us as a society
37:31
as humans that we may be able to stop this cycle. Not just and
37:38
by that we I mean, like people always say we're stopping the cycle,
37:43
We're you know, We're not. We're not going to continue the trauma cycle
37:45
by our actions, of course, but that in turn actually can affect,
37:51
you know, putting those genetic imprints onto your your children and their children's children,
37:58
because the trauma ass is down not just by exposure about your environment and
38:04
your upbringing, but through your actual you know, body and and your chemicals.
38:09
That again, I'm not the professional, but can you please speak more
38:14
to that because I'm so excited about it. Amy. First of all,
38:19
do not count yourself out, because that was a very good description. It's
38:23
a very complicated topic and I'm not going to pretend that this is my area
38:30
of expertise. I am you know knowledgeable about it. I've read some research
38:36
studies, but it's a really complex theory and idea. So what epigenetics is.
38:44
It's this, It's essentially the study of how our genetics meet our environment.
38:51
Okay, so without because I'm such a nerd with this stuff. Oh
38:54
my gosh, I'm such a psychology nerd. I love it. It just
38:58
brings me such joy. But there's with epigenetics there is how I'm just looking
39:08
at my notes here for a second because I don't want to say. We
39:10
can even if you want, and we can pause if you'd like to.
39:14
No, no, no, okay. So epigenetics talks about how generational trauma
39:22
impacts us at a cellular level, how our ancestors trauma lead legitimately becomes part
39:34
of our cellular DNA, and how and it leads us to continue the cycle
39:40
of you know, generational trauma. There are two important pieces with epigenetics.
39:46
There is genetic expression and then genetic alteration. So when our genes are altered,
39:57
that is how And I'm gonna to talk about this more when we talk
40:00
about Kim and Croy, But that is how addiction is studied because there are
40:07
very significant, complex genetic components to addiction. With generational trauma, it changes
40:19
the expression how the gene expresses itself, but it doesn't alter the gene itself,
40:25
if that makes sense. Okay, So it's very complicated, but it
40:30
is a hugely up and coming area of study, and to your point,
40:37
I believe that this will be an absolute life saving breakthrough in the study of
40:45
both psychology and addiction in helping people change that cycle and become The term for
40:52
it is a cycle breaker. So a cycle breaker is someone in the family
40:59
who reckon it, nices the dysfunction, and they change their behavior with their
41:05
next generation of family as a result to avoid continuing that trauma. But the
41:14
problem is that it's not that easy. It's not you can't just say,
41:20
oh, I know my family's dysfunctional and I'm going to go ahead and change
41:23
it. It's a lot of I mean, quite frankly, it's blood,
41:28
sweat and tears, of therapy and of radical self acceptance and awareness. We
41:37
have to have a When I say that, it just means like a complete
41:42
awareness and self acceptance of our behavior, because without that we can't see how
41:49
we're continuing to perpetuate the trauma. Without having a radical awareness and understanding of
41:55
ourselves, if that makes sense. And so going back to Jersey, none
42:01
of them have that awareness or insight. So even if they wanted to break
42:08
the cycle, which I don't think they want to truly, I think they're
42:12
too entrenched in the anger and the and the hate. But if they wanted
42:15
to, they would really have to do some work on themselves first in therapy
42:22
in order to assist future generations in stopping this trauma. If that makes sense.
42:30
It does, and then it makes me concerned about the kids. You
42:34
know, so many kids, and what will happen with them and their relationships.
42:39
Of course, also Teresa was in therapy, which is so mind blowing
42:44
and what and probably to Louise's encouragement, Yes, okay, I have some
42:52
thoughts on this. Okay, So anyone can go to therapy. That does
42:58
not mean that they are doing any work. And I'll explain what I mean
43:04
by that. Some people have a cognitive awareness that this is what I need
43:12
to do to appear healthy, But in therapy you really have to be completely
43:19
open and vulnerable and allow yourself to do the work. And I promise you
43:23
that she was not doing that because she well, right right, if she
43:30
were, we would genuinely see some different behavior. Plus, you know,
43:38
as a therapist who's kind of entering the pop culture realm, I certainly don't
43:43
want to throw stones. I do always wonder though, about therapists who agree
43:47
to be filmed, because for me, therapy is a sacred, very sacred,
43:57
very private process. I would never feel comfortable enough to to broadcast that,
44:08
or to allow a client to broadcast this that part of their life.
44:16
For me, that wouldn't make a lot of well you are because this is
44:20
my therapy and therapist, so technically you are exposing that o' kidding forever Amy,
44:30
Yeah, so you know, and and when they showed her therapy,
44:37
you know, a therapist. One of the reasons why, you know,
44:40
I've had a lot of difficulty with clients in the past is when you're dealing
44:45
with really difficult personalities and you therapeutically and appropriately confront them on their stuff.
44:54
If they don't they don't like it, and then they get angry and they
45:00
get really upset. We only saw a snippet of the therapy, so I
45:05
can't judge it, but I'm just saying, you know, I wonder how
45:07
much the therapist is really calling Teresa or Louis on their role because the fact
45:16
is we all play a role in any relationship that we're in. We all
45:21
do. It's never just one person. The percentage isn't always equal, but
45:27
it still requires cooperation, you know. Yes, now, can we swivel
45:37
on over to Kim and Croy if you will? Well, I have one
45:43
last thing I wanted to say about the pajama snitch. Oh please, yes,
45:49
very good. Please. I mean we started the reunion with pajamas and
45:52
we'll end our discussion about this with the pajamas. Yeah, very poetic.
45:58
Okay. For me, it wasn't so much that he said it, It
46:05
was why did he say it? And the answer to why he said it?
46:10
And he kind of almost admitted to this. At the reunion. Louis
46:17
was trying to connect with Joe, which is his fancy, kind of very
46:27
shaded way of saying that he was trying to emotionally manipulate. Wow. He
46:32
a thousand percent was using that as a tactic because he thought Joe would be
46:40
like, Wow, that's amazing. You know. He just totally thought that
46:46
would cause a different reaction. And so for me, that tells me two
46:51
things that one, he is emotionally manipulative and too his judgment of his behavior
47:01
is incongruent. MM. So that's what I'll say about that. Wow,
47:13
it's like a Housewives interview where you pull your in your drink. That's what
47:15
I'll say about that. And I'm like, bloop right, yes, that's
47:24
all I wanted to say about that so much. Well, that is the
47:29
concern. The whole thing with the whole family is very concerning. Okay,
47:34
well, one more thing now before we do talk about Kim and Cray for
47:37
the future, what do you think, I mean, what do you think
47:44
will happen like next season? Where do you think is the best way to
47:50
go from here? It's such a good question. And you know Melissa at
47:58
the end of the reunion, when she was when she was like, well,
48:00
I'll go with the flow, I was like, yeah, that was
48:05
the sweetest way of just saying please, I want to come back and I
48:12
can coexist with you, you know what I mean. It wasn't an authentic
48:15
That's how I took it too. I'll film with you. Yeah, all
48:21
of the ladies at the end, all of a sudden, magically poof there
48:25
are feuds. We're dead, We're ready to move forward. I can walk.
48:31
Yeah, you all just want a contract. But to answer your question,
48:38
if I were Bravo, this is going to be a bold statement,
48:43
But if I were Bravo, I would be afraid of Louis and I would
48:47
not want to be engaged with him in any way, shape or form,
48:55
unfortunately, because that's how I feel. That would mean, you know that
49:01
Teresa would have to go. But to be honest, the only way forward,
49:07
in my opinion, is for them to all go. I know that
49:12
sounds insane, and people, I'm gonna get a lot of don't at me.
49:15
Okay, I'm gonna get a lot of hate for that. But you
49:19
know, Melissa and Joe and Teresa and Louis, just live your lives and
49:24
just it might be kind of nice to just get rid of them all.
49:28
I mean, I kind of agree with that, because if you get rid
49:30
of Teresa and you leave Melissa and Joe, it's kind of like, wah
49:36
wah, Well, what's the point. Why don't you give the rest of
49:37
the cast a chance and just put them both couples in a time out,
49:43
you know, and just say, look, yes, you guys need to
49:45
both work out your shit and let's see how let's see what you do off
49:50
camera for a couple of years. You know, I believe that one thousand
49:54
percent because ultimately, in my opinion, as I've been clear, I'm team
50:00
No One. I don't think either of them should have the opportunity to come
50:04
back. I don't think that they should pick one over the other. I
50:08
know a lot of people have a lot of opinions about you know, standing
50:13
Teresa or standing Mliss or whatever. I think they both need to time out.
50:16
This is their real life. These are real families that are being destroyed,
50:22
and this is reality TV. It's not worth it and it's not that
50:25
serious. Yeah, my honest feeling, give them both a break, take
50:30
them out of the equation. See how Jersey does. Maybe add some new
50:36
people, you know, bring Jackie backfull to whatever, just do something different
50:42
completely. That's to me, the only fair and sensible way to do it.
50:46
But I think that's a great way to do it. I mean,
50:50
because Teresa can't come back without Louis, Because if Bravo was like, well,
50:54
Louis Is, you know, he's a wild card. We he's so
51:00
let's not film with him. But let's film with Teresa that that doesn't seem
51:05
like you're telling the whole story. I mean, that's not gonna work.
51:07
That's not and it's not authentic, you know. I mean, it's just
51:12
it doesn't make any sense. So I am honestly one of the things that
51:15
I am so thirsty to figure out is this, what are they going to
51:21
do? Who's in charge of making those decisions? You know, what are
51:23
they considering? You know, whatever they do, we all have to make
51:29
a decision if we're going to watch for me, if Melissa or Teresa comes
51:34
back, I'm out. I'm going to say that right now. I'm out.
51:37
I can't. I can't do it anymore. Teresa's behavior. I think
51:42
Melissa and Teresa are very similar, and they have similar behavior, but Melissa
51:45
is just quieter and not as obnoxious about it. But I'm just I'm tired
51:51
of all of it, and I got better things to do. Yeah,
51:57
we're moving on. We're moving on. We won't spend as much time on
52:00
Kim and Croy. We'll just do broad strokes. But I'm curious because we
52:06
don't have a ton of details on them as it stands, But we have
52:08
this incredibly contentious divorce that's happening right now with them both filing against each other.
52:16
They're both asking for custy, they're both accusing each other of abuse.
52:21
This neglect that you're on pot, you're a gambling addict. I'm selling my
52:28
wigs. No you're not. I'm selling your wigs. Kroy's got my salon.
52:32
Don't buy anything. I mean, you know, it's it is so
52:36
weird. And then in the next post is like, see you in Real
52:38
Housewives of Atlanta. You know it's how outstanding bills they're selling. She's selling
52:50
a ton of stuff there. Obviously have a lot of debt. We know
52:52
that. So that being said, Melissa thoughts on Kim and KROI, oh
53:00
boy, okay, I got I have more thoughts on this than I do
53:05
on Jersey. But I do want to reiterate. I do want to reiterate
53:09
my disclaimer. So I'm going to be talking about addiction. I am not
53:14
Kim's doctor, I am not her therapist. I'm not her mental health team.
53:19
I am not diagnosing her, will not diagnose her. I'm giving my
53:23
feedback on you know what I see because you know, fun fact, I
53:29
used to be a gambling prevention specialist. Wow, it is a certification that
53:35
I received. I just never kept it up because, ultimately, you know,
53:38
there's a lot of reasons. I just I just didn't want to have
53:42
my practice be focused on that anymore. But I think, really what this
53:47
comes down to is mental health issues and addiction, and I'll explain you know
53:57
a little bit about that. So the first thing I just want to say
54:02
is that there's something called process addictions. Okay, where So when you're addicted
54:09
to a substance, alcohol, drugs, what have you, it's a substance
54:13
use disorder. A process addiction is things like sex and love addiction, gambling
54:21
addiction, shopping addiction, food addiction, exercise addiction. There's a lot of
54:27
different process addictions, and typically there are certain statistical factors that increase your risk
54:38
of developing these issues, and one of them is having a previous substance use
54:45
disorder. And another one is that these process addictions and addictions in general generally
54:52
have a comorbid mental health issue in addition. So what you know, the
55:04
funny thing is is that I don't know if you caught this, but the
55:07
other day Atlanta re aired there was an episode called Kim and Kroy, and
55:14
it just it just was an account of their courtship and you know it led
55:19
up to get getting married. The show that they had there and it was
55:22
so serendipitous. And I watched it again, you know, preparing for coming
55:27
on today, and I understand why people are surprised. But I'm gonna tell
55:34
you why I'm not. Kim and Corey really did. There was love there
55:38
for sure, Okay, there was true, in my opinion, true genuine
55:44
love. You know when they when they had their first son, you could
55:46
just see that they just they both loved each other so much. They were
55:51
so happy. But over time, you know, relationships, mental health issues,
55:58
what have you, they solidify if they're not dealt with. And Kim
56:05
has always given me really avoidant vibes, you know, she just doesn't exactly
56:15
haters. Yeah, yeah, and it's like, okay, so I think
56:28
that Kim has always had There's two cognitive concepts I want to share because this
56:32
also relates to Jersey, willful ignorance and self deception. They are two cognitive
56:39
strategies that people use to support their beliefs even in the face of evidence that
56:50
they're wrong. And I think you know, Kim and Theresa and Melissa and
56:55
Joe, they all have some of these kind of cognitive astortions. And Kim
57:01
has always seemed like the type of person to me that just doesn't she lives
57:07
in a different reality, you know, right right right like when And this
57:15
is not to be rude, because I never will will shame how someone looks
57:20
her body, shame or anything that's disgusting to me. But those wigs,
57:23
those party city wigs. When she first started the show, I always thought
57:30
to myself, you know, Kim's a pretty she's very pretty, She's you
57:35
know, was fit, and you know she has these good characteristics. How
57:38
do you think that this looks good? You know? That was always like
57:43
my first little like, what is up with this? But what I think
57:47
happened is that Kim after her stroke. I believe she was always prone to
57:57
anxiety, but after she had the stroke, I believe that she developed an
58:02
array of kind of post traumatic stress symptoms. Oh my gosh, she wasn't
58:08
expecting you to go down this road. Okay. Yeah, And when someone
58:15
has something suddenly happened to them that threatens their life, yeah, PTSD is
58:22
very real and it's very oh it's so scary and it completely takes over.
58:28
And I know this. I've you know, I've as you know, I've
58:30
had cancer twice. I have a lot of health problems. I've been in
58:35
the position where my health has been threatened and I was lucky to survive.
58:39
And so I know, personally and professionally, you could just see after her
58:45
stroke some of those anxious tendencies to me crossed over into obsessive, unhealthy,
58:54
maladaptive coping. And the thing about gambling, addiction, and really any addiction,
59:00
any process addiction, it's a maladaptive coping strategy. It is a coping
59:06
strategy. It's just maladaptive because it's not healthy and it doesn't serve you.
59:13
But what happened, I believe is that she was untreated for her possible post
59:21
traumatic stress symptoms after the stroke, and it compounded and compounded and compounded until
59:29
she was probably a shell of herself doing things that maybe characteristically she wouldn't do.
59:37
And when you're in a marriage and someone is going through that and they
59:42
won't get help or they can't or you know what, because I can't judge
59:45
it, I don't know if she ever tried it just compounds itself into really
59:52
really you know, difficult stuff and bad behavior, poor choices, right,
1:00:00
so so devastatingly sad. I mean to think that, yeah, it all
1:00:07
allegedly in our opinion. I'm going to put my opinion with yours, allegedly
1:00:15
that that it's stemming from just severe post traumatic stress disorder from her stroke.
1:00:23
Now, let me ask you this, because obviously we know that Kim loved
1:00:27
to gamble before she had that stroke. So are you saying that it just
1:00:31
became an exaggerated thing at this point, because she did say she lost two
1:00:37
hundred and fifty thousand dollars at one casino in one night, right, So
1:00:44
that's a great question. And my answer is yeah. So so in the
1:00:46
early days when we saw Kim, she and again this is a legend and
1:00:54
she's not my client, but she seemed to me to have some shpping compulsive
1:01:00
shopping issues. She definitely really enjoyed her alcohol. And the one thing is
1:01:08
that when someone has an alcohol issue or a shopping issue or what have you,
1:01:22
it is often very comorbid that they have also PTSD and some mental health
1:01:30
issues. And I believe in the early days Kim's shopping and drinking. It
1:01:39
was to fill something. And when when she and Corey first got together,
1:01:45
I think she felt really happy and fulfilled, probably for the first time in
1:01:49
her life. Absolutely, But she came from the weird, horrible background.
1:01:55
Yeah yeah, but because because all those things were sort of seedlings that I
1:02:04
think were already there. When when the stroke came about, I think it
1:02:09
was just like like pouring gasoline on a fire. The fire was burning,
1:02:15
and it just it just And I've seen this happen in my practice. Someone
1:02:20
you know, it's a little, a little issue, and then a tragedy
1:02:23
happens or something really scary happens, and it just sets it into overdrive.
1:02:30
Now with you know, with a gambling addiction, you know, I can
1:02:32
speak to it, you know, without saying I don't know anything about you
1:02:37
know, Kim's life other than what I see. But what I can tell
1:02:42
you is if someone admitted to gambling two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, I
1:02:49
promise you it was probably what she has gambled is probably ten times that or
1:02:55
more. Oh my god, You're right when it comes to gamblers. The
1:03:00
one thing that I've learned is that what down, oh honey, honey,
1:03:08
not only do they round down, they have a seventy percent off sale of
1:03:14
what is coming out of their mouth. So if that is what she was
1:03:19
willing to acknowledge, what she actually has spent would be horrifying and quite frankly,
1:03:27
one of the reasons that I hard had a hard time working with gambling
1:03:30
addiction is that it just destroys families in such a way that some other addictions,
1:03:39
Not that they don't, but but to financially bankrupt and destroy your family's
1:03:47
life. Yeah, it's that's the sad truth of what gambling addiction is.
1:03:54
She I think, Kim, you know, she's not a bad person.
1:03:59
I think she just needs some help. Yes, and you know, I
1:04:03
don't know how much Kroy. You know, here are my questions you know
1:04:08
that I wrote down. Has she had negative consequences for that? Right?
1:04:13
So here's people who are listening to this who you know, are curious about
1:04:16
addiction. Have there been negative consequences with relationships? Have you had legal issues?
1:04:24
Have you had job loss? Are you having mental health issues because of
1:04:27
the gambling? Can you Has she tried to control gambling before but she has
1:04:32
been unsuccessful. Has her gambling use increased you know, over the last couple
1:04:41
of years. And the other interesting thing of why gambling is so harmful is
1:04:49
there something called financial infidelity. So there's there's traditional infidelity, where you cheat
1:04:57
on your partner, you know, scan of all taught us that. But
1:05:00
financial infidelity is when you really do things financially that impact your family's life secretly
1:05:13
without them knowing, like their college savings or there's a retirement fund, or
1:05:20
they remortgage their house. Those are the types of examples. Okay, yes,
1:05:26
those are very good examples. And financial infidelity is so hard to get
1:05:30
passed because you know, the these two Kim and Kroi, they work their
1:05:35
whole lives and I guarantee they not only have nothing, but are probably in
1:05:42
a lot of debt. Yes, I mean you can tell with if you
1:05:45
go to her link tree. They're selling and she's selling everything, you know,
1:05:47
or all these clothes, all these handbags, all the wigs. I
1:05:49
mean, yeah, yeah, they're they're liquidating because this is what you have
1:05:56
to do to survive when you have how why do kids they have six or
1:06:00
seven? Six? Just went over this, yeah, a couple of weeks
1:06:03
ago. Six, Yes, I believe it's six. I think yeah,
1:06:05
yeah, so yes, when when you're when you have six children and you
1:06:14
are willing to spend a quarter of a million dollars on gambling, you know,
1:06:23
to me, that indicates irresponsible behavior to say the least, And it
1:06:30
indicates that she doesn't have control over her gambling because if she did, she
1:06:39
would she'd probably put her kids first. You know what. You know,
1:06:45
one of the things that you know, I when I worked in an impatient
1:06:48
rehab, I really learned that whatever someone's drug of choice is or whatever their
1:06:57
process addiction is, that's their first that's the first love, that is their
1:07:00
priority. And that is also why it's so destroying to families because it's just
1:07:09
like, you know, I can't imagine how Croy and the kids feel,
1:07:12
like, can't you stop doing this for us? And quite frankly, is
1:07:15
that addiction isn't a willpower issue. Let me just say that it's a disease
1:07:23
with genetic components that requires compassion and treatment. And you know, but I
1:07:31
do think that that Kroy and the kids he probably needed, if things are
1:07:35
as bad as I believe they are, he needed to extricate himself from this
1:07:42
woman to help his children. You know, there was something that he said
1:07:48
in a court filing about how she spends all of her time gambling and is
1:07:53
not paying attention to the kids. And I mean that would track if this
1:07:56
is really a problem. It's not that she doesn't love her kids, it's
1:08:00
that right now, her process addiction, if there is one, is taking
1:08:09
over. Because I know I watched that special. You know I've watched Tardy
1:08:15
for the Party and all these other things. Kim loved those kids, she
1:08:17
loved Croy. I just think this component just seeped in and got its grips
1:08:27
in her. And I hope that there's someone around her that is able to
1:08:32
get her some assistance. And do you think that there's anything to Kroy having
1:08:39
any responsibility in the downfall of this or do you think that it's really about
1:08:44
her gambling that broke them? Oh? No, he has I think he
1:08:47
has responsibility too, because, similar to what I talked about with Jersey,
1:08:53
you can't be an echo chamber for your partner. If you're an echo chamber,
1:08:58
they there they have to be called out on their behavior. I can't
1:09:02
say specifically how much or how little he did of that that we don't know,
1:09:10
but a partner I'm sure he co signed and enabled her in some way,
1:09:17
because, to be honest, they seemed extremely codependent to me. Yeah,
1:09:21
For people who don't know what codependency is, codependency is a future often
1:09:28
seen an addiction and mental health issues where somebody else becomes your emotional thermostat.
1:09:34
If they're happy, you're happy. If they're unhappy, you're unhappy. Oh
1:09:39
you know, it's a cool way to describe it, an emotional thermostat.
1:09:42
I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't
1:09:45
know how much or how little Kroy tried to engage, but I do think
1:09:54
there was a lot of codependence from the beginning, which I think he just
1:09:58
thought is what it meant to be a good husband, you know. I
1:10:01
think maybe he just thought, while I'm supporting my wife and my kids,
1:10:05
and and and maybe he didn't totally realize the damage that codependency or that co
1:10:12
signing behavior had, you know. That I'm not sure of, but I
1:10:15
can tell you for sure he played a role absolutely the only time people with
1:10:21
a not the only time, But what causes people to die from addiction is
1:10:29
being surrounded by echo chambers who perpetuate and will not draw healthy boundaries that is
1:10:39
that in my experience, that is that's that's where you see that the most.
1:10:45
Well, when this news broke and there was something about gambling in there,
1:10:50
and it was one of the you know, there was a parent that
1:10:54
there was a list of things I should say that were that were Kroi's gripes,
1:11:00
one of which were the gambling, and I thought, oh my god,
1:11:03
that's totally it. That's why they have all these money problems. I
1:11:06
mean, she had admitted in one interview and that's what happened. She has
1:11:12
lost all of their money, and so I did so it's really interesting to
1:11:16
hear you pretty much co sign that. But at the same time, I
1:11:21
did not see. Ah, I never would have been able to anticipate where
1:11:26
you would go with this. I am blown away, and I am so
1:11:30
sad, you know, for Kim and for that family because yeah, you
1:11:38
know you saying and hitting it on the head where it's like wow, no
1:11:42
one is talking about how this could potentially just be rooted. And the fact
1:11:45
that she's so you know, in a she's just spun out after having this
1:11:50
stroke and being so close to death and having you know, wasn't she doing
1:11:55
dancing with the Stars at that point. Yeah, I think she was doing
1:11:57
Dancing with Stars, And like, I'm sure that's a lot of trauma.
1:12:00
You're getting pulled out of an incredibly like a network national television show. There's
1:12:05
a lot of trauma from that you didn't even get to perform or no,
1:12:09
wait, maybe she did, maybe she went back and did, but whatever
1:12:11
the point is anyway, Well, there's there's just so much to talk about.
1:12:19
So I think I think we can kept for hours, but you know,
1:12:23
for one hour time, when don't we We're gonna wet the palette now
1:12:26
and then we'll just have to circle back because I really do have a lot
1:12:30
more in questions. And I would also love to get into an episode with
1:12:34
you more about addiction as well, because we've obviously seen it, you know,
1:12:41
with you know, Kim Richards and how that's affected their family. I
1:12:45
don't know if you've watched Summer House, but what Carl has gone through with
1:12:48
his addiction and how he's you know, sober right now and he lost his
1:12:53
brother to addiction. There there's probably plenty of other Yeah, it's just it's
1:12:59
really was stating in to see it play out on television is really hard to
1:13:02
watch it is and I want to say to people who are listening that are
1:13:10
struggling with addiction or in recovery, what have you? You are rock stars
1:13:15
because you know, addiction it takes It is such a horrible disease. It
1:13:23
just takes away everything wonderful about a person. And I just feel so much,
1:13:28
you know, for people. And you know, if you're struggling with
1:13:31
addiction and you're listening to this, they you know, they say in the
1:13:33
program of AA, don't give up until the miracle happens, you know,
1:13:39
keep going, push forward. You deserve better for yourself. And I'm just
1:13:44
really passionate about you know, again, this is reality TV, but I
1:13:49
really want to take these issues and really help people and educate them and support
1:13:55
them. And you know, because it is sad. It's sad all around.
1:14:00
I'm sad for Kim. I'm so sad for her children. Yeah,
1:14:02
Kroy, It's nobody wins here. It's just devastating. So I'm happy to,
1:14:10
you know, talk more about that in the future. And I just
1:14:13
appreciate you giving me a platform too. Yeah, I appreciate you coming on
1:14:16
here and lightning me and the darlings because it is really fascinating. And this
1:14:23
conversation about epigenetics, though we just skim the surface, is also something I
1:14:27
find so interesting and also, like I said, such a hopeful I keep
1:14:32
calling it scientific discovery. That for if you are an addict, it's almost
1:14:41
like, wow, I have the power, not just an addict, but
1:14:45
anybody, you know, anybody that has any kind well all of us,
1:14:48
really you have the power to literally not only change yourself, but to change
1:14:53
the future of your genetic line. And that is really mind blowing. That
1:15:00
wild is wild, It is wild, and it makes so much sense.
1:15:06
And to think that, I know, yeah, I just wanted to say,
1:15:10
there's power in that, you know, for like, that's that's the
1:15:14
irony Teresa and Joe and Melissa and they they don't want to give up their
1:15:18
power, but they don't realize that they're actually powerless. To the drama.
1:15:25
When you stand in your power and you're able to, you know, address
1:15:30
things like this, that's actually a very empowering thing. Yeah, you're doing
1:15:34
it for the world, you know. It becomes almost not about you anymore.
1:15:38
It becomes about the collective humanity that we all, you know, we
1:15:42
are all connected, and yeah, it's just wow. Really hopeful, Melissa,
1:15:48
Well, people need to follow you where on your Instagram? Can people
1:15:53
follow you? Okay? Amy? Thank you? Uh, you can find
1:15:57
me at your bish therapist to be I s h because I figured if I
1:16:01
had a curse in my handle, I would just be like no. And
1:16:08
then I'm also on TikTok at your bish therapist. But full disclosure, I
1:16:14
am like geriatric when it comes to social media. I mean, I'm trying,
1:16:21
but my TikTok is I'm growing. Their Instagram is definitely you know,
1:16:28
more my jam But you know, I'm all I can do is try my
1:16:31
best and that's what I'm doing. You are doing so great. I just
1:16:35
adore you. I adore you. You're coming back whether you like it or
1:16:40
not. Now I'm kidding, No, it's no. I would. I
1:16:44
would love to you. I would love to And thank you again, Melissa.
1:16:46
Thank you darlings for listening, talk to you so thank you. Drama
1:16:56
Darling, Drama, Darling, Drama Darling