Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #695 Suggestions for Sensitive Souls

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#695 Suggestions for Sensitive Souls · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just on answers now.
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  Speaker 2: And our emotions are like leaves and rippers. They float
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  Speaker 2: past and then they disappear. The reason that the emotion
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  Speaker 2: stays for a long time is because we dam up
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  Speaker 2: the river. We try to block the leaves from floating away.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, we answer a
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  Speaker 2: listener question. You can send your questions to podcasts that's
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  Speaker 2: podcasts with an s at happy families dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 2: My name's Justin. I'm here with Kylie, my wife and
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  Speaker 2: mum to our six kids. We've got a few years
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  Speaker 2: of parenting experience between as, haven't we, Honey. Our eldest
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  Speaker 2: daughter is twenty three and a half. We're coming up
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  Speaker 2: to our twenty fifth wedding anniversary. It's just around the corner.
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  Speaker 2: And we have six daughters. Our youngest is still in
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  Speaker 2: primary school grade three years old, about to turn nine.
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  Speaker 2: The clock's ticking. We've got ten years to go until
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  Speaker 2: we no longer have any parents, so that will be
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  Speaker 2: a combined total of thirty three years thirty three years
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  Speaker 2: of parenting children from the time we had our firstborn
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  Speaker 2: until the time our last born turns eighteen. So here's
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  Speaker 2: the thing, thirty three years.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't ever end.
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  Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, but that's the whole
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  Speaker 2: We've got kids in the house that are dependent on us.
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  Speaker 2: I look at how much our parents go through now
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  Speaker 2: that they've got adult children, like properly adult children. In fact,
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  Speaker 2: my parents just became great grandparents.
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  Speaker 3: That's crazy.
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  Speaker 2: That is crazy. So they became grandparents obviously when we
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  Speaker 2: had our kids. But I have a sister who had
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  Speaker 2: a child very young, a daughter very young, and that
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  Speaker 2: daughter has just had her first baby very young. So
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  Speaker 2: my parents are great grandparents. They're not even seventy yet
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  Speaker 2: and they're great grandparents. I think it's phenomenal. It's amazing.
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  Speaker 2: So we're not here to talk about that, but that's
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  Speaker 2: who we are. We've got a few years of parenting
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  Speaker 2: experience under the belt, as all I'm saying, and I've
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  Speaker 2: got a PhD in psychology. I love to talk about
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  Speaker 2: how to make families happier. Today's question, Kylie, comes from
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  Speaker 2: somebody who wanted to remain anonymous. They've just signed their
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  Speaker 2: email to us J with an X. I guess the
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  Speaker 2: excess for a kiss They've said, Hi, Kylie and Justin.
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  Speaker 2: I have a six and a half year old daughter,
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  Speaker 2: intelligent and sassy, but also can be extremely sensitive and
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  Speaker 2: finds it hard to separate from HBI and I, but
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  Speaker 2: especially me. This has been an ongoing issue since she
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  Speaker 2: started daycare at two years old and continues now as
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  Speaker 2: she's in Grade one. Growing up, the term sensitive was
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  Speaker 2: applied to me, but always in a negative way. You're
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  Speaker 2: too sensitive. You shouldn't think that way. I know now
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  Speaker 2: that it can be a wonderful, amazing thing to be sensitive,
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  Speaker 2: but I'm very conscious of others labeling her in the
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  Speaker 2: same way they labeled me. Also, how can I guide
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  Speaker 2: her so that her sensitivity does not cause her so
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  Speaker 2: much emotional distress? She struggles so much already with the
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  Speaker 2: separation issues, attempts school avoidance, and finds the ever changing
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  Speaker 2: dynamics of little girl friendships so difficult. Would love to
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  Speaker 2: hear your thoughts, Jay, So, Kylie, there's a few things
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  Speaker 2: to talk about here. We've got the sensitivity other people's judgments.
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  Speaker 2: We've also got school avoidance and little girl friendships being difficult.
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  Speaker 2: A whole lot to talk about a short podcast. This
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  Speaker 2: is the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: wants answers now. So I think we'll see if we
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  Speaker 2: can help Jay with just some Kickstarter ideas on each
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  Speaker 2: of those things. Where would you like to start? What
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  Speaker 2: about if we start with what other people are saying
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  Speaker 2: about your sensitive child? I think we can take that
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  Speaker 2: one off nice and quickly.
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  Speaker 3: I think that mums are keenly aware of it more
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  Speaker 3: so than dads.
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  Speaker 2: Is this the mother guilt thing or do you think
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  Speaker 2: it's something else.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's the mother bear and us who wants
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  Speaker 3: to protect We have this deep need to protect our
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  Speaker 3: kids from hurt. Yeah, not the physical hurt that I
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  Speaker 3: think dads are keen to protect them from, that emotional
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  Speaker 3: hurt because we've experienced it at such an intimate level
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  Speaker 3: ourselves as younger children. And so for me, the thought
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  Speaker 3: that somebody would think badly about my child, they don't
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  Speaker 3: even have to say it, just that they would think
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  Speaker 3: badly or view my child in a negative way.
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  Speaker 2: You don't want you child to be misunderstood much breaking.
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  Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking. So what I'm about to say is going
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  Speaker 3: to feel so harsh, really.
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  Speaker 2: You're going to say something provocative. That's my job, and it's.
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  Speaker 3: Something that I struggle with to this day. But I
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  Speaker 3: heard it, and it makes so much sense.
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  Speaker 2: If only I could lose it. What is it?
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  Speaker 3: It's really none of my business what other people think.
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  Speaker 3: I don't have any control over it. I could manipulate
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  Speaker 3: every possible situation to frame my child in a positive light,
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  Speaker 3: and there will still be someone who will see them
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  Speaker 3: in a bad way because that's their choice and their prerogative.
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  Speaker 2: But we still want them to think nicely about our kids.
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  Speaker 2: I know it's not our business, but we really want
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  Speaker 2: people to like our kids because we see our kids
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  Speaker 2: as an extension or reflection of us, and if they
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  Speaker 2: don't like our kids, that can feel like we're being
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  Speaker 2: rejected totally.
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  Speaker 3: And I guess that's where building the village is so important,
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  Speaker 3: finding safe people who love your children. We had a
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  Speaker 3: child who massive emotions, massive emotions, and she literally did
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  Speaker 3: not get invited to birthday parties. She wasn't included in
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  Speaker 3: any social outings. She was not able to be socialized
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  Speaker 3: with other people, yes, totally. Parents had decided her big
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  Speaker 3: emotions meant that she was not a child that they
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  Speaker 3: wanted their children to associate with Ye, and yet there
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  Speaker 3: were a handful of people who saw her for her
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  Speaker 3: and fiercely, I'm talking fiercely. They became like second mothers
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  Speaker 3: to her. They loved her, and to this day they
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  Speaker 3: are a safe place for her to go and they
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  Speaker 3: are the people you want in your corner.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can't.
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  Speaker 3: You can't. You can't change the whole environment. You can't,
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  Speaker 3: you can't fix everybody.
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  Speaker 2: And it's not just the mean. I know there's some
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  Speaker 2: judgment out there. And I get what Jay is saying
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  Speaker 2: in this email that I don't want my daughter to
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  Speaker 2: be judged as being sensitive. But people are going to
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  Speaker 2: make judgments about our kids no matter what. And they
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  Speaker 2: might judge them as being sensitive, or they might think
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  Speaker 2: that they're too boisterous, or they're loud, or they're arrogant,
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  Speaker 2: and they think that they know everything. Like, there's always
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  Speaker 2: going to be some judgment. And our job is to
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  Speaker 2: be comfortable enough in our own skin that we're okay
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  Speaker 2: with other people thinking things about our children. Because those
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  Speaker 2: other people, they're getting a snapshot, they're getting a moment
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  Speaker 2: in time. They don't really know what our child is,
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  Speaker 2: who our child is what they're capable of, and further
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  Speaker 2: to that they've got It's important for all of us
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  Speaker 2: to remember that children are on a tremendous developmental trajectory,
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  Speaker 2: and this snapshot, this moment in time, is just that tomorrow,
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  Speaker 2: next week, next year, you will have a somewhat different child. Sure,
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  Speaker 2: some characteristics are consistent and stable over time, but the
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  Speaker 2: child still grows and learns and matures and develops them.
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  Speaker 2: Your idea kind of ties in with something that I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to say, not about being sensitive to what other
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  Speaker 2: people are judging about this little six and a half
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  Speaker 2: year old, but rather the sensitivity that the child has.
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  Speaker 2: I want to again say something that's a little bit provocative,
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  Speaker 2: a little bit hard here, but I think it's really important,
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  Speaker 2: and that is be careful not to put your own
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  Speaker 2: labels onto a child. You were sensitive, Now you're saying
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  Speaker 2: that you've got a sensitive child. But children are sensitive,
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  Speaker 2: but they're also not They have their moments in every direction.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think also there's an acknowledgment that she's
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  Speaker 3: now coming to a place where she's learning and recognizing
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  Speaker 3: that being sensitive doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, And I think the whole community is coming to
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  Speaker 2: that recognition.
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  Speaker 3: The opportunity she has to help her child recognize and
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  Speaker 3: see that being sensitive is actually a blessing. But it
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  Speaker 3: comes with a heavy burden at times because you feel
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  Speaker 3: so deeply and you experience the good and the bad,
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  Speaker 3: but without the bad, we don't actually get to feel
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  Speaker 3: the full experience of the good, and so it feels
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  Speaker 3: like a double edged sword. But it can be so just.
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  Speaker 3: Life can be so much more fruitful if we're willing
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  Speaker 3: to really feel and live into the experiences that we have.
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  Speaker 2: So to extend on what you've just said and sort
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  Speaker 2: of round out what I was going to suggest in
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  Speaker 2: terms of this child's big emotions, because the child clearly
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  Speaker 2: does have some sensitivities and wants to not separate from
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  Speaker 2: not separate from Dad, is struggling a bit with school.
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  Speaker 2: We've got the school avoidance. I would add, we need
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  Speaker 2: to become comfortable with our children feeling uncomfortable at times,
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  Speaker 2: because when we demonstrate unease at our child's big emotions,
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  Speaker 2: our child is actually going to receive some level of
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  Speaker 2: reinforcement from being our discomfort with their discomfort.
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  Speaker 3: Whereas if we can it reinforces the fact that they
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  Speaker 3: should feel that way. Precisely, some feels uncomfortable about this situation,
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  Speaker 3: so clearly there's something here that I can't see right.
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  Speaker 3: It's bigger than me.
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  Speaker 2: And then we get this negative emotional spiral as each
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  Speaker 2: person feeds off the other. There's a contagion to that emotion.
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  Speaker 2: Emotions are contagious. So what I would say to Jay
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  Speaker 2: is take a breath, and when your child is feeling uncomfortable,
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  Speaker 2: maybe detach yourself a little bit from the outcome. Detach
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  Speaker 2: yourself a bit from the emotion. Obviously, you care very
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  Speaker 2: much about your child. I'm not saying to detach yourself
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  Speaker 2: from your child, but just recognize, well, right now which
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  Speaker 2: I was having this big emotion. I used to love
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  Speaker 2: to use the metaphor, and I haven't done it for
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  Speaker 2: a long time. I haven't been asked to teach the
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  Speaker 2: anxiety content for a while, but I used to in
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  Speaker 2: my anxiety workshop talk about the visualization of a leaf
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  Speaker 2: floating down a river, and you can watch the leaf
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  Speaker 2: fall out of the tree, hit the water, float down
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  Speaker 2: past you as you sit on that beautiful grassy river
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  Speaker 2: bank in the sun. Watch that leaf float down around
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  Speaker 2: the river bend until it's out of sight. Emotions like
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  Speaker 2: leaves and rippers, they float past and then they disappear.
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  Speaker 2: The reason that the emotion stays for a long time
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  Speaker 2: is because we keep feeding it. We dam up the river,
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  Speaker 2: We try to block the leaves from floating away. We say, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you're having a big emotion. We need to talk about
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  Speaker 2: the emotions. This is a controversial thing to say, because
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  Speaker 2: I'm aware that in our current way of thinking about
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  Speaker 2: psychology of emotions, that we really do elevate emotions, and
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  Speaker 2: we pay attention to emotions, emotions, the data emotions tell
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  Speaker 2: us so much. But sometimes I think we elevate emotions
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  Speaker 2: too much. Sometimes I think that we focus so much
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  Speaker 2: on the emotion that somebody is having, We focus so
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  Speaker 2: deeply on their emotional experience. We get so invested in
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  Speaker 2: the emotion that the emotion begins to drive everything that
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  Speaker 2: we're doing in terms of the way our household functions,
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  Speaker 2: the way we interact with other people. Sometimes it's okay
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  Speaker 2: to say, you're having a really big emotion right now,
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  Speaker 2: aren't you. Let's just watch that emotion float around the
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  Speaker 2: corner like a leaf in a river, and then we'll
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  Speaker 2: get on with things. So have the emotion. Let it
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  Speaker 2: happen safely, but don't make a big deal about it,
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  Speaker 2: and just get on with it.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that that's where a healthy appreciation for
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  Speaker 3: emotions happens, when we're able to acknowledge the emotion and
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  Speaker 3: then let it go. Yeah, that's the trick. It's like
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  Speaker 3: my training able to let it go.
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  Speaker 2: My train in the tunnel metaphor, the train will always
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  Speaker 2: come out of the tunnel. It goes into the mountain
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  Speaker 2: that comes out the other side. Sometimes the tunnel is
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  Speaker 2: really really long, but there's no point pulling out the
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  Speaker 2: earth moving equipment and starting to make a big mess
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  Speaker 2: by digging up the mountain to pull the train out.
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  Speaker 2: It will come out eventually with no mess whatsoever. If
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  Speaker 2: we just say, Okay, big emotion, let's give it an hour,
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  Speaker 2: let's give it ten minutes, let's give it a day,
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  Speaker 2: like I had to with you just recently, and the
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  Speaker 2: train comes out of the tunnel and things get better.
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  Speaker 3: So, having worked in childcare in our early days of marriage,
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  Speaker 3: one of the things that always used to astound me
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  Speaker 3: before I was a parent was to see these massive
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  Speaker 3: emotions of children. Was working in the todd of the room,
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  Speaker 3: massive emotions with our children as mums and dads tried
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: to say goodbye and walk out, And then as soon
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  Speaker 3: as my.
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  Speaker 2: Dad left, running and playing and happy.
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  Speaker 3: It was like a light bulb switch and they had
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  Speaker 3: completely changed their tune and they're okay. And so often
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  Speaker 3: the separation anxiety that our children experience is actually feeding
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  Speaker 3: off the anxiety that we have for leaving them because
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  Speaker 3: we feel bad, yes, and it's really really hard to
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  Speaker 3: get over that. But if we don't come to terms
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  Speaker 3: with our own separation anxiety, then our children never will.
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  Speaker 3: It will just continue to feed on each other. And
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  Speaker 3: so the power in recognizing that your child, you are
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  Speaker 3: literally taking your child to a safe place. They have
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  Speaker 3: teachers who love and care for them, and they will
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  Speaker 3: have a great day if you can live into that
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  Speaker 3: and walk away nice, calm, cool, collected.
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  Speaker 2: And compassionate and kind. It's not like you walk in
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  Speaker 2: and say you're safe here, have a good day, and
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  Speaker 2: you walk away. It's not cold, there's nothing harsh. And
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  Speaker 2: I'm not even sure if that detachment word that I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: used earlier is is the right word, because you are attached,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of course, but there's an emotional stability, there's an emotional
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  Speaker 2: confidence that we want to have as parents to help
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  Speaker 2: our kids realize, Yeah, we get it's hard, but we
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  Speaker 2: know that you'll be okay.
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  Speaker 3: Conversations in the car pre arming our children about what's
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  Speaker 3: going to happen. Mum's going to get there, We're going
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  Speaker 3: to put your bag away, We're going to say hello
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  Speaker 3: to your teacher, and then mum's going to give you
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  Speaker 3: a cuddle and a kiss, and I'm going to leave.
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  Speaker 3: I will be back at three o'clock. They can. You know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: she's six and a half, so she can read the
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: time on the clock. She knows. And then once I
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: pick you up, we're going to go and visit Grandma,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: or we're going to go to the park with your
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: friend or whatever. It is pre arming them about what's
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: going to happen and then giving them something to look
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: forward to at the other end of the day. It
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: can be really powerful as well.
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  Speaker 2: So the last thing we need to talk about is
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  Speaker 2: school avoidance and those challenging friendships. We've got a really
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: great article online about dealing with when school feels horrible
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: for kids, and I also had one about school refusal
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that I wrote last year. We will link to both
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: of those articles in our show notes rather than talking
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: about it at length in the podcast, because there's so
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: much we could talk about. I just want to mention
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: a couple of things, friendships and relationships. If we can
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: build great relationships at school and also great relationships outside
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  Speaker 2: of school, I think you're going to find that the
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: kids tend to want to be where their friends are,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: and so if they've got some relationships that have been
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: built in a healthy way at school, they're much more
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: likely to want to be there, and school should go easier.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: The higher quality of the friendships at school, the easier
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: it goes. But also have friendships outside of school, so
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  Speaker 2: that school isn't the only place, because it can be
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: a dynamic place. Friendships chop and change a lot, and
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: so we want to give kids every opportunity in and
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: outside of school.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think the last thing is just to remember
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: that friendships, relationships, and all of this big emotion stuff,
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: it just takes time.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and kids will mature a.
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  Speaker 3: Level of age maturity that needs to take place for
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: these things to fall into place. But some kids, not
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: all kids. Some kids just fall into life and everything
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: seems to be easy for them, But there are other
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: kids a little bit more sensitive, just struggle, and it's
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: a time thing, and we're watching that with our children.
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  Speaker 2: It's funny, going full circle to the start of our conversation.
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  Speaker 2: We're talking about all the years of bearning experience that
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we've got with so many children and so many years
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: of this, and I reckon in understanding Jay's email, if
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: this was our first child, our six and a half
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: year old going through this, we would have been so worried.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: We would have been so concerned about this sort of stuff,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: having been through it as many times as we have. Now,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: it's actually one of those things where if we can
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: take a breath and say, you know what, I've got
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: to trust, I can trust in my child's innate desire
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to create healthy relationships. Just having that trust in them
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  Speaker 2: is probably enough. It feels so differently about it now
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: than how you and I would have felt about it
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  Speaker 2: eighteen years ago when we were going through it ourselves
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: for the first time. And Jay, I guess the last
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: piece of advice therefore, would be take a breather and trust.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Just trust that your child is organismically designed to find
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: a way through this and to do it in a
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: healthy and productive way. You just create a supportive environment
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and she'll be all right. The Happy Family's podcast is
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: our executive producer. We so very much appreciate that you
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: listen to the podcast. If you're enjoying the podcast, well,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be really honest about it, and I
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: hope you don't mind me saying this, Kylie, but we
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: want more people to listen to the podcast because it
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: will make their family happier. So if you could take
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: like thirty seconds and leave a quick review at Apple Podcasts,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: just five stars. Here's what I love about the podcast.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: And when you do that, Google and Apple and all
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: of the algorithms pushed the podcast into the feeds of
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: people who might also like it. It's your reviews that
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: make it more visible. So please jump online and do
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: that for us. We'd be so so very great. Tomorrow,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: some more stuff about school, which will be helpful for
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: any parent of any child who isn't loving school. Right now,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: we talk to the author of the book, teacher Gabbie Stroud,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: on the Happy Families podcast