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Birding! · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I am your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Audobon host Abraham.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm your Lives in a Bird Sanctuary host Shane Nice.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: non human animals do and sometimes the things that humans
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: do with respect to non human animals. That's what we're
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: talking about today. And if you're joining us for the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: first time, then welcome. I hope that you enjoy what
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: you hear in this discussion. And if you're a returning
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: person and welcome back, thank you so much for choosing
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: to be with us for a second, third, or even
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: more than that time. And either way, if you would
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: like to support us, you can leave us a rating
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and a review like subscribe, tell a friend, join us
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: on Patreon on I'll talk more about those things at
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the end of this discussion. But this episode comes out
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: on July twenty seconds, and therefore it is important to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: acknowledge notice and wish everybody a happy casual Pie Day. PI.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, Pi, it's also fragile X Awareness Day.
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  Speaker 1: Hmm. You know, I don't think we've ever actually done
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: an episode or a mini on fragile x. I'm gonn
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: write that down really quick because it's an interesting it's
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: an interesting one.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've worked with a couple of folks that have
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: fragile x. It's really interesting.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It is Lions Share Day. That could mean that the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: lions share with each other. It could mean a large proportion,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it could mean the share that goes to a specific lion.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things interpreted as you maybe a
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: share lions, interpreted as you will. It's Lions share Day.
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  Speaker 2: It could be it could be lions stockholding.
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  Speaker 1: Beautiful.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: If birds participate in the stock market, would it be
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: called a flock market?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's correct.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's yeah, in the animal world, when there
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: is a stock market, that's what we're dealing with. Let's
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: get back on track. Come on, tighten up, Abraham.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: It's mango Day, Delicious, It's National hammock Day where you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: can store those mangos, I guess, uh huh.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or where you desperately want to be right now.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: So it's a national Panucci or Panuche fudge day.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I read that as panouche.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, it just I feel like it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: It feels French like French like, not frenchy, but French
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  Speaker 2: Frenchish like fancy is what I'm going to say, French
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and fancy Frenchy. That's frenchy.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Apparently, it is rat Catcher's Day, the character from DC. Yes,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: or rat Catcher too, if you will. It's Spooner's Day
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: or Spoonerism's Day. Oh so close to my heart. I
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: do it. Just a frequency that is potentially pathological.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Same.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It is Summer Leisure Day or Lummer Seizure Day, Yes
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: it is.
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  Speaker 2: It is Captive Nations Week or Naptivcations Week.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Sure. It is Coral Reef Awareness Week. Oh love coral reefs.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: They're the best.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: They're the best. They're so great. It's Hemingway lookalike days. No,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: you win, Shane, I am the old man and there's
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: the sea.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It is Massage is for every Body week or everybody
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: massage massages for everybody week. That's how I'm reading that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I like that. It is National Moth Week.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. It is National Triathlon Week. Good luck, it's great.
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  Speaker 1: I would I would do it if I were younger
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  Speaker 1: and had time.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's National zoo Keeper Week.
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  Speaker 1: No fun Okay, well, maybe not fun. There's a lot
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: a lot to say about zoos that we've never gotten into.
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  Speaker 1: But all right, that's that's the days of the week
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  Speaker 1: that we talk about. That's just an amuse boosh, an appetizer,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a thing to set the mood for the silliness, whimsy
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: and kind of approach we bring to these things. There's
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a level of nerd embodied in that list that we
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  Speaker 1: love to share. And that's that's going to be a
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  Speaker 1: running theme throughout all of this discussion and all subsequent discussions.
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  Speaker 1: And I'll pass discussions if we're being truly honest. So
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  Speaker 1: let's let's dive into this. Are you ready or is
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  Speaker 1: there anything that I'm missing and you like to add
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  Speaker 1: before we begin?
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  Speaker 2: I am so ready?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, nerds, And I say that with all
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the love in my heart. I have some friends who
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: are fairly avid birders, and listening to them talk passionately
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  Speaker 1: about the birds that they've seen and the unique songs
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  Speaker 1: that they've heard, it's infectious and it's inspiring. Like I
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  Speaker 1: love hearing them talk about this. They're so passionate about it,
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  Speaker 1: and they regale me with stories about beautiful hikes and
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  Speaker 1: lakes and rare sightings of birds that make me want
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  Speaker 1: to walk out the door and see what need has
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to offer.
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  Speaker 2: And further, one of Abraham's favorite board games, Wingspan, has
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  Speaker 2: hundreds of unique, nearly photo realistic campaigning cards of real birds,
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  Speaker 2: with random facts about those birds on each card.
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  Speaker 1: I have talked about this game before. I will talk
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: about it some more. It is so fun and so
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  Speaker 1: good and it makes me love birds even more. It's
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  Speaker 1: so cool. So all that is to say, we're going
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: to talk about birds specifically. We're going to talk about birding,
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  Speaker 1: what it is, how and why people do it, and
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  Speaker 1: how you can get started or just know about this
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  Speaker 1: very popular hobby.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, as a Floridian, I love birds because we have
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  Speaker 2: so many unique ones here, between the herons and the
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: ibis and like the pelicans and the weird the sandhill
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  Speaker 2: cranes that walk around. Man, it's so cool. It's so great.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so true. Yeah, I was definitely quite enamored with
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  Speaker 1: some of the cranes and the ibis and everything when
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I was living down in your neck of the woods.
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  Speaker 1: Just really amazing creatures so.
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  Speaker 2: Huge, they're scary, are so tall, and you're like, these
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: are dinosaurs.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Speaking of which, do you know if Florida has the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: shoebill stork.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. We have a lot of storks, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if we have the shoebill one, but
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  Speaker 2: that one is frightening.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that looks like a dinosaur. I have not looked
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  Speaker 1: up whether or not they live in Florida. People are
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: probably yelling at their speakers right now saying either yes
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  Speaker 1: or no, or calling us names. But shoebill stork very interesting,
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  Speaker 1: very crazy, cool looking bird I would not want to
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  Speaker 1: be very close to in real life, but I do
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  Speaker 1: like watching videos of them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So apparently the only place you see a shoebill
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  Speaker 2: stork in Florida is at the Tampa Zoo.
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  Speaker 1: Oh okay, so not not a wild thing out in
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  Speaker 1: the world, not a wild thing here now, all right, Well,
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  Speaker 1: this is not a fan episode about the shoebill stork
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  Speaker 1: or the cranes and ibis of Florida. But we're about
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  Speaker 1: just talking about burning more broadly, all the birds and
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: there is. When we get into these a lot of times,
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  Speaker 1: it's important that we start by defining our terms, and
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  Speaker 1: unfortunately there's not a super clear definition of birding because
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  Speaker 1: different people propose different ways of thinking about this. Definitions
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  Speaker 1: range from as little as noticing a bird and that
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  Speaker 1: qualifying you as doing birding, to recording your sightings or
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  Speaker 1: labeling the bird, being able to say what it is
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  Speaker 1: that is. It's kind of a low bar to clear,
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  Speaker 1: because it's like, if you're paying attention and recording it,
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  Speaker 1: then that could count, and if you're just paying attention,
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  Speaker 1: that could maybe count to And those are not super
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: different things, right, And then obviously some people go a
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: lot more hardcore than that. We'll talk about that. For
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  Speaker 1: the most part, though, when you're thinking about birding, it's
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  Speaker 1: really just any activity in which you choose to actively
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  Speaker 1: notice birds in your environments that can essentially qualify you
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  Speaker 1: as doing birding. I think probably you're doing it semi habitually,
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  Speaker 1: like you're choosing this on some kind of regular schedule.
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  Speaker 1: But importantly, birding means observing and I say that because
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  Speaker 1: it does not mean interacting with or disturbing the bird.
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  Speaker 1: Birders are not going out trying to take nests or
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  Speaker 1: touch them. They just want to see them. The object
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  Speaker 1: of this activity is to see a wide diversity of
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  Speaker 1: creatures and nature. You're not chasing them, capturing them, harassing them,
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  Speaker 1: or interacting with them. You just want to see them
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  Speaker 1: and record the fact that you saw them, maybe also
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  Speaker 1: heard them. But like you're generally, the point is to
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  Speaker 1: leave them alone, but be able to have the memory
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  Speaker 1: and recording and experience of having been able to witness
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  Speaker 1: this cool, majestic creature.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I never thought of myself
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  Speaker 2: as a burder until not too long ago when I
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  Speaker 2: was trying to figure out what birds were flying around
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  Speaker 2: at dusk and were flying really strange, and I realized
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: there were bats, and I went, oh, I need to
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  Speaker 2: do a better job of this. That's a terrible birder.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, what bird is that? Nope, that's not
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  Speaker 2: a bird. It's a mean minute. But now we have
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Patricia that's hanging out around our cool So most people
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  Speaker 2: are unlikely to call themselves burders, however, until they start
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  Speaker 2: learning the names of their birds and recording their observations
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  Speaker 2: in some capacity, maybe in like a field note general
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  Speaker 2: or whatever they're doing, you know, and that is they
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  Speaker 2: start choosing to be on the lookout for birds as
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  Speaker 2: an activity unto itself. So it's like a more intentional activity.
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  Speaker 1: And again it's not like the definition. It's just like,
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  Speaker 1: at what point, Like, I like birds. I even bought
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  Speaker 1: a pair of binoculars, But I don't call myself a
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  Speaker 1: burder because I don't really do it very often. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not like actively trying to seek it out. I feel
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  Speaker 1: like that's the point at which people sort of start
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  Speaker 1: to But I mean, you don't have to, like you,
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  Speaker 1: you could do as little as I am doing and
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  Speaker 1: call yourself a burder. I just didn't feel like that
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  Speaker 1: level made sense to me personally. But again, the definition
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  Speaker 1: is kind of loosey, goosey. Here, goosey.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of birds, it's gonna be just a big
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: comedy here, Like it's gonna be so full of puns.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, Okay, so many of you might be hearing
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  Speaker 1: this and thinking like that's something old people do, and
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  Speaker 1: you're not wrong. The is particularly common among older adults,
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  Speaker 1: with an average of forty nine years old. For the
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: people who are out there doing burning, No, of course
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: means there are people way below that and people way
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: over that, but that's where the average sort of puts it. However,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: research shows that this is a growing hobby in popularity
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  Speaker 1: and that includes a like growing number of much younger people,
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  Speaker 1: Like there are kind of kids, they're in their like
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: barely adulthood who are out doing this, and sometimes even
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: younger than that that like they choose to go out
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  Speaker 1: and do burning at things activities and would call themselves burders.
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  Speaker 1: So this is a there's a lot of increased interest
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: in this and the age the ages really range like
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a whole lifetime basically, but the average age currently at
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: least was listed by I think this is the Autobahn
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Society was forty nine years old.
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  Speaker 2: All right, makes sense now. The National Association of Hunting, Fishing,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and Wildlife Associated Recreation assembled a report in twenty twenty
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: two that estimated that there are as many as ninety
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  Speaker 2: six million Americans, so about thirty percent of the population
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  Speaker 2: that they are burners. And there seems to be an
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  Speaker 2: increase in the population of the younger people who are burners,
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  Speaker 2: which is I think lovely. I think more young folks
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  Speaker 2: need to be connected with nature very.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Much, So yeah, I think that's a that's a cool trend.
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  Speaker 1: And furthermore, technology has made it easier to record birds.
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  Speaker 1: These apps that we can carry around on phones like
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: go in our pocket that can record their sounds and
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: then tell you what song that probably like, what bird
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  Speaker 1: that sound probably belongs to. So the barrier to entry
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: for this activity, what little there was to begin with,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: is further reduced by making it increasingly easy and acceptable.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: And have the tools to help you get into the hobby.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to do now you have to
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: You can exert barely any effort to go out and
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: just start looking for birds and recording what you find.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And you might look around and just start noticing all
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: the ads on billboards or in your podcasts. Okay, we're back.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: You can notice ads if you want to. Let's actually
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: get into like how to go about doing birding. So like,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: here's here's the things to know, the things to do
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: if you want to go out and bird. This is
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  Speaker 1: your field knowledge guide if you will, or field guide
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: of knowledge. I don't know. Here's here's information.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Here's how you start. You can decide to put as
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: much or as little time into birding as you'd like.
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  Speaker 2: Most people recommend three things. A pair of binoculars, a
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: guide book, and a positive attitude. I don't know where
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you can buy a positive attitude, but if you do,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: find a place to buy that. Please let me know
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: if you're going to stock up if we can.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I need to buy some myself, and I'm.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Going to resell it on Etsy, but I'm going to like,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: you know, make it a little bit more artsy and
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: hit be Like. So, this is a pretty inexpensive hobby
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: and like most things, you can spend a lot of
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: money if you want to, but you really don't have to.
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  Speaker 2: A twenty dollar book and at twenty dollars pair of
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: binoculars and you already start burning for less than fifty
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: bucks if you even want to spend that much. You
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: can actually just look at what's around and write down
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: or just spend time noticing it, or use an app
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: to record the bird, which is really cool.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like, there really is, Like you can do
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: this for free, one hundred percent. You can do this
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: for free. You can do it with zero equipment if
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: you want to. Most people like to have a pair
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of binoculars in like some kind of guidebook, but you
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: don't have to do it whatever you want. Yeah, some
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: people will spend hundreds of dollars to get very particularly
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: powerful binoculars, or even some people will like set up
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a single lens telescope, or they'll buy really powerful cameras
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: so they can take pictures of what they see. But
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of whatever is in your comfort range
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and no obligations here. You do not have to have
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: a thousand dollars telescope to call yourself a burder. If
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you just want to walk outside and notice a burd
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and be like, huh, that's a cool bird, then like
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you're doing the thing. Congratulations, Yeah, it's kind of nice.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Now. Most recommend a ten by fifty or ten ten
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: times fifty, ten by five fifty, Yeah, ten by fifty
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: pair of binocular which is ten times magnification with a
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: fifty millimeter objective lens and burning books range in price
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: and complexity, from simple informational picture books to encyclopedic descriptions
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: and enumerations of different kinds of bird species that exist.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's like depending on how intensely you want
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to get into it. The beginner books are fairly simple.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: They're like, here's a picture of this bird, here's where
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: you might find it, here's some variations in colors. Maybe
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: here's a couple facts. That's it. Some of them are like,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: here's the Latin name and its habits, and it's like
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: where's its place of origin and where its name comes from,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and like sure, I mean you just kind of get
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: into it as much as you want to. Really, Yeah, Like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: there are lots of places that will list the kind
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of books you might try and find and then also
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: rank them in terms of like their level of experience
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: you're looking for by getting that book. So there's lots
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: of resources out there if you want to get started.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Now, a cool thing about this hobby is you don't
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: necessarily have to do very much to get into it.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Ninety five percent of ninety five percent, which if my
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: math is right, is almost all of them.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: It's just so many.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: That's so many. They spend the majority of their birding
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: time simply in their backyards or like on their property somewhere.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: You can just set up on a porch, you can
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: go walk around, you can just observe what you see
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and like at what times of year. Like notice that
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: their birds migrate a lot of them, so you might
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: see different birds in different times of the year. So
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: just like go out, you don't need to travel very
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: far if you don't want to. Of course, you can
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: travel to places known to have certain birds that you
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: might be interested in trying to observe, And many people
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: who get into the hobby report doing just that. They're like, Oh,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I drove three hours out of my way to go
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to this forest because I heard that there's this nesting
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: eagle there or something. And if you want to do that, like,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that's the thing you can do. But you can also,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: like I said, most people just are like at their house,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: maybe around their neighborhood, just walking around seeing what they see.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you also need a sense of curiosity about the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: world around you, a willingness to observe and notice various
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: aspects of nature, and patience. You're going to notice different
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: sounds that you hear, the colors that are around you,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the feeling of the breeze or the sun on your skin.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: You're going to notice the insects and the flowers and
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: the little fruits that might be growing around you. Record
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: what you see when you see it, and nature's not
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: there to entertain you, so appreciate what you get to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: see when you get to see it, Like, not too
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: long ago, we have these flowers there growing in our backyard.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: For the first time in my life. I saw a
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: hummingbird in real life.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a big bug at first because
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I'm in Florida, so I was like, what is that?
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And then I looked at it. I was like, oh
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: my god, it's a little, pretty little hummingbird. It's so cool.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: So and you just kind of like the best. It's
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: just it's an at a glance thing that you're like,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: if you have the right flowers and you have the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: right things in place, you might see some things that
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: you might not expect.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very much. So that's cool. I love hummingbirds.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: They're so pretty.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: They're so pretty.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of them in various places. They
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: they're really cool. That's really cool. Yeah, absolutely, you can
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: do that. And yeah, just the point being that, like
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: if you're going to go out and nature, like, you
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: might see some cool birds. You might not see anything,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: but you kind of just like notice what's there. And actually,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: one of the things that people will report is that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the part of what has them be more mindful of
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: their surroundings is they're starting to look out for like,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: what are the kinds of things that are tracting birds? Here?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Are they here building nests? Are they here gathering food?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Are they here doing mating rituals? Like there's there's all
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: kinds of things going on, and the environment itself is
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: often going to be a variable in what kind of
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: birds show up, and so you might start to notice, like, oh, look,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I noticed when I see these berries, these types of
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: birds tend to show up. So if I'm in another
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: place that has those, I might expect to see those
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: types of birds. And so it's a part of it.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: But it's also just like just being there. Just be there,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Just be there in that space, and probably you'll get
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to see some cool stuff and probably you'll just get
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to notice stuff you weren't otherwise normally paid attention to.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Right exactly now, Depending on how.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Much time you spend and where you are, you might
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: want to plan for various environmental conditions. If you're going
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to be outside doing this, you want to be able
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to plan for weather, insects, and foliage Accordingly, generally the
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: recommendation is to plan to wear clothes that cover most
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: of your skin, which will protect you from bugs and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: from the sun, were sunglasses and a wide brimmed hat.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: And if you're gonna if it's gonna be dark, you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: might want a flashlight or something, just to make sure
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: you can see where you're going. Wear sunscreen on parts
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: of your body that aren't covered by clothes, or other
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: things planned for if it might rain, if it's gonna
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: be hot, if it's gonna be windy or muddy, et cetera.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Just just accordingly, make sure you bring like a snack
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: in some water or something so that you can be
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: safe out and about.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, some people specifically recommend winter time specifically for their
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: birding activities, as there are often fewer leaves on the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: trees and bushes that would otherwise obscure more well camouflaged
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: bird colors and make it easier to spot some birds.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: That's especially true in Florida, Like there is a lot
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: of foliage, but like in the winter, a lot of
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the trees drop their leaves and you could see a
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: lot of really cool things.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so it's like normally they're sort of hidden
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: by all of the trees, but with their being less
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: on the branches, it's actually easier to spot some of
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the ones you might not otherwise see. Now, of course,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: many many birds are again we've mentioned this several times,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: but they'll migrate, so they may not be there in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the winter, but you might see new ones in the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: winter that you wouldn't otherwise see. So just a thing
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: to consider, and then obviously in that situation, just warmly yes,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of course, all right, if you are really interested in
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: observing what is available, plan to observe during the times
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that birds are the most active. Generally speaking, this is
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: not a universal truth, but generally speaking, dusk and dawn
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: are really good times. There are nocturnal birds and diurnal birds.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: In dusk and dawn, the birds are waking up if
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: it's you know, in the morning, or they're just returning
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to rest, and the nighttime birds are kind of doing
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the same. So you get to see the majority of
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: the birds that are active in your area because if
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: at dusk, for example, you know your nighttime birds are
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: starting to come out and be more active, your owls
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and whatnot, and in the morning those birds are starting
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to go back to their rest, and the birds that
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: are getting up for the day starting to get up.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And I also saw something about how like the cool
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: air tends to facilitate carrying their songs. Further, there's a
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: lot of insects that they're out catching that are like
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a little sluggish because it's maybe a little cool. There's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on, but dusk and dawn
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: seem to be good times to try and observe, depending
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: on what you're trying to observe and what's around.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, it is appropriate to put out birds eat
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: or other feeds to attract birds and even certain types
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of birds. Enticing birds to come near can be a
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: very effective way to get to observe a wide variety
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: of birds or very specific birds. Like I mentioned before,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: like that flower that we had was only accessible to
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: a bird that would be able to like, you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: put its tiny little beak in there and get some nectar, right,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: like a pollen eater, and so like that makes sense
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to have that there, and that's only going to attract
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: that it's not going to attract hawks or crows.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know, we mentioned like the point
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: of birding is not to interact with the birds, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that is true, yes, but it is not considered inappropriate
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to like set up a feeder where you are specifically
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: sort of trying to entice birds to come near so
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that you can see them when they come near. Right,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: So that that could be a thing obviously, be nice
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to the birds, don't poison them, don't put something that's
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: gonna like hurt them. Like if you want to see birds, like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: be nice to the birds. Don't be a jerk.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And by the way, if you do attract crows, they
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: are very smart and they will probably remember you, and
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: if you give them something that makes them sick, they
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: might start attacking you and putting in the car. That's
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: for real, that's very real, and they tell each other
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: about it and then their friends come and attack you.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: So like, don't mess with crows. Be nice to them.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: They're cool.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Crows are really really cool. There's a couple of crows
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: like they are like right near my house. I'm like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I want to train them and attack my enemies. I do.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I Actually I was thinking about it, and I think
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that crows are my favorite bird. I think they're I
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: really just appreciate how crafty and ingenius they are. And
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I know people don't like their their cow, but actually
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I like it a lot. I think it's really cool.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: That's funny. I was thinking about that. I was going
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: to ask you what your favorite bird was, because I
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: think mine is an osprey. Because we have a lot
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: of those around here. Yeah, and they're really beautiful. They're
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: like a blue gray white bird of prey. They always
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: hang out by water. They there's a big nest near
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: my house on top of the Walmart sign. Cool and
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you can see the parents, like the two parents that
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: are hanging out and taking care of the babies in it.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: It's so cool. Oh that's amazing. Yeah, that's a good answer.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: There's a wrong answer. You see, see two are learning today.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: There's not really a wrong answer here, you know. Whatever
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: is sort of strike. I like crows because they're very smart,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: and I like the I just like everything about it.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I think they're really cool. I think they look cool anyway,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: great Oden's raven. There are many apps that provide pictures
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: of birds as well as bird song recognition. A lot
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: of times people refer to bird calls as a bird song,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: or they'll be able to play recorded bird sounds. There's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: like a huge library of recorded bird sounds, and then
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: you can compare what you hear from those recordings to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: what you're hearing out in the wild. And many, if
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: not most, of these apps are free, and I'm sure
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: there's like paid subscriptions that you like get the premium
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: whatever is, But like you can generally get access to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: these and be able to use them to help you
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: on your birding journey very easily. You know, It's it's
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: either free or you just have to sit through a
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: bunch of ads. All right, we're back. We've been just
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: talking about like the various things to consider and take
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: on if you're going to get into the burning hobby.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: But it's always worth asking, like, what are the downsides
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to this? Should I maybe not do burning? And there's
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: not very many, but we'll list them for you.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like any hobby, it can be easy to
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: get sucked into that into a hobby, and it starts
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: consuming more and more of your time and resources that
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: you were originally prepared to dedicate to such an activity.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: But I think there is something really valuable about this,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: like spending more time outside. While it has many benefits,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: can also come with some risks. There are increased chances
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: for dangerous encounters with other wildlife such as snake, spiders,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: disease carrying insects, even bears and wildcats, or even mundane
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: threats such as falling.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're like out hiking, you could potentially fall
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and break a leg and then be far away from
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: people and not have a way to necessarily get help.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So there's you know, there are some risks that come
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: with that, so just yeah, be careful. And as we said,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: like you know, there's a lot of other wildlife out
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: there that are not just birds and they are not
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: so concerned about staying away from you. So things to consider. Yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: another consideration, depending on where your values are at here,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: is that if there were enough people who did this
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: activity regularly, Let's just imagine everyone on Earth got into
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: this all at the same time, it could result in
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: like excessive tourism and flocking. No pun intended, but I
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: appreciate that it came to me that quickly flocking to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: areas where they're looking for birds that ultimately result in
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: like a greater disturbance of that habitat and the birds
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that would otherwise frequent that habitat, and now it's crowded
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: by too many people. So you can imagine that, like,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: it's great that people want to do this, it's cool
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that people are going out into nature, and if there
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: was this huge surge in people doing this all at once,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: actually be really disruptive. So that could potentially be another
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: like sort of risk here.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people are willing to sacrifice sleep and
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: adequate nutrition to go out and watch for birds, which
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: is why a Ram brought up bringing snacks out and
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: stuff like that with you as part of this. This
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: could result in adverse health outcomes and relatedly sort of,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: the cost can be extremely high if choosing to purchase
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: high end equipment. So you might get into a hobby
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and you might really get into it, and then you
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: end up spending more money than it's necessary because you're
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: kind of like pulled so deeply in this habit. I can,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: as somebody who is a musician, I can speak to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: that very well. Music equipment gets real expensive, real quick.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. As one of the chief complaints about
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: my board gaming hobby is how much I have spent
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: on board games, not just the games, but then like
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the accessories for the games, and buying sleeves for the cards,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and buying the upgraded components and buying the neoprene mats
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: and then buying all the expansions, and.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: It just hobbies are expensive.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Hobbies are expensive. Yeah, it's a thing. They can be,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: they can't yeah, fair, Okay, So why do people bird. Well,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: they're a wide range of purported benefits for birding, and
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: most of these are actually kind of psychologically oriented. So
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: let's get in get into the reasons that people like
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to bird.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so people report that the sense of being in
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: nature tends to improve mood, foster relaxation, and impart a
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: sense of mindfulness and a respect for nature. I mean,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: this is just stever. When that's stever when lifestyle for sure,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Like it's like just being in it and connected like
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: that man was the most jovial person I've ever seen
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: in my life. Now research backs us up as well, So, like,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to know that. So twenty twenty
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: one meta analysis found that people who participated in quote
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: nature based interventions recorded improvements in depressive moods, anxiety, improving
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: positive affect, and decreasing quote negative affect. And people are
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: generally drawn to green, natural spaces and tend to feel
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: better when spending time outdoors. This is actually something I
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: learned in my PhD program that there is there was
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a branch, or is a branch of psychology called environmental
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: psychology that focuses on this. Like they use is a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: lot of this as part of the treatment modality or
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: the treatment space, not like that, like they'll do therapy
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: in nature or like connect with natures like a part
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: of a foundational piece of that theoretical orientation.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a whole Like it's called the biophilia hypothesis.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I've wanted to unpack it specifically as an episode at
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: some point on this show, and maybe we still will,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: but because I feel like it goes too far. But
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the premise of it actually makes a lot of sense.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: It's that humans are essentially like we are drawn to
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: natural spaces. We're drawn to we like looking at mountains
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: and vistas, we like looking at pictures of trees and flowers,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: we like beaches, we like places outside, and we like
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: places with a lot of green. And it makes a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: lot of sense. We are animals, we evolved in those spaces,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: so we actually tend to find just general psychological happiness
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and like improvement when we find ourselves in those spaces.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: And the research is there, like it's it shows that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: this is generally the case. Yeah, not ignoring the fact
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: that we are in fact animals and that we evolved
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: in nature, and that nature is still a very important
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: part of who we are like if we try to
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: divorce ourselves from it completely, I think we would struggle
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: with that in a lot of ways and ultimately try
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to end up recreating version. Like people buy fake plants
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and put them in their houses because they want to
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: have green around like it looks nice, right, Like it's
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a thing they're attracted to. So anyway, so that's just
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the thing. There's also the fact another reason that people
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: why people do this, a benefit that they get out
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: of this, I think you could put it in that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: category is that when people do go out and do birding,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: they tend to exert some exercise. They'll frequently hike to
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a place to look for birds. They're usually going out
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: into some fresh air, and they tend to relax while
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: they're sitting there, noticing the surroundings, and therefore they will
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: experience a more profound mindfulness, which can have some moodless
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: lifting effects as well as the fact that they're relaxed.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: People will do this often with a partner or a group,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and that comes with some positive social interactions and all
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: of these variable things that are likely part of what
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: has resulted in improved mood when people go out and
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: do birding is that they're getting exercise, they're with people,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: they're a nice relaxed, calm space with like kind of
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: leaving your stress and work worries behind and you're just
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: kind of doing something just to do something that is fun,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and you also get to like see some really pretty nature.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, But the birds themselves are also an important
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: ingredient here. So in the twenty eighteen study surveyed UK
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: citizens' reactions to fifty different bird sounds and found that
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: many bird sounds with certain characteristics were highly rated at
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: having a restorative effect, meaning people found that simply hearing
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: some bird songs created a feeling of restoration and peacefulness. Yeah.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I think actually when we tend to try to simulate
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: an outdoor environment and we're creating like a peaceful like
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: forest sort of sound, there is going to be bird
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: call happening at some part in that. There's you know
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: a little chirps and whistles and stuff that is part
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: of that ambiance and that I think people found find
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: generally relaxing most definitely. I think further in understanding why
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: people out here doing this is there is a somewhat
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: game like experience here to have the opportunity to observe
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a bird you've never seen before, for example, as you're
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: sort of out there looking around for something new. It's
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: sort of like Pokemon Go in the real world, Like
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you can go out into the world and you might
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: be lucky enough to stumble upon some rare bird you've
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: never seen before, and then you get to add that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to your list. So there's like kind of this fun,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: challenging element of it. And we will talk about like
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: in a specific challenge that people do take on that's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: an actual competition, but for the most part, like you're
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: just sort of like, oh, this is so exciting. I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: haven't seen this one. I get to write that down,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: or even if you have seen it, like oh cool,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: it's another one of those like I love getting to
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: see that type of bird. I'm happy this. Like whoever
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: gets tired of looking at hummingbirds? Conservatives probably, but like
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: normal people like or just the every time they see them,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: you get to be excited because there's such amazing birds.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now many people report that it is almost
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: addicting to spend time out in nature and have an
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: opportunity to observe the various birds around them and add
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to their notes about observations they make. Commonly, they report
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: that the more you do it, the more you want
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I understand this, I do.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can relate, by the way.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've mentioned, but there's like a lot
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: of quail here. Have you seen quail?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that I have, But it's one of those
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: things I just don't know a bit about. I think
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: I probably assume that they're doves.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Well, so quail have the like the weird little feather
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: off the front of their head that sort of hangs
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in front of them like an angler fish like quailman, Yes,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: exactly like Quailmanda is correct. That's the whole reason for
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: the belt. And they can fly, but they prefer to run,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and so most of them stay on the ground. And
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: so when you see quail, they'll often be in a
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: little group, because it's usually a family. You have a
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: parent and then a little baby's and they'll go running
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: across the road and there's like a little trail of them,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a little trail of quail, and it's so so cute.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: They're such cute birds. But anyway, I love that just
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: noting things are around me. Others report that as a burder,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: you are likely to gain a greater appreciation for nature
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and the spaces in which you tend to observe birds,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and therefore be more supportive of kinds of causes that
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: would be preservation of wildlife areas. You might donate to
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: them more, you might elect officials who promise to protect them.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: You might go to events and activities dedicated to the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: preservation of those spaces. So a lot of people have
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: said that, like they get into the hobby and all
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of a sudden they're like kind of activists for like
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: preserving these wildlife spaces. This is kind of cool.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a lovely outcome, Like what a great
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: side effect to that. And also if you're wondering, Yeah,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: but why birds? I mean, I know people who are
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: afraid of birds, so like, but I want to talk
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: about this for a second, Like consider the alternatives here.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: What other animals are out there that are easy to spot,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: that have a great variety of color, shape, sizes, and sounds.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Are different species of squirrels so different that you could
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: easily spot dozens of different species and recognize their uniqueness
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: and a given environment. Ground animals are generally harder to
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: spot and usually less brightly colored and pretty universally unlike
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the remarkable diversity available in the different bird species. Also,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: their size is very conducive to tracking. Insects arguably have
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: a similar level of diversity and availability, if not more,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: but they are often more difficult to spot to their
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: size and the fact that many have specifically evolved highly
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: camouflaged appearances, and they rarely announce themselves at least nowhere
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: nearly assaliently as birds, and some of them bite you. Yeah,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: but birds are an ideal candidate for tracking and recording.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this with fish too. It's like, yeah,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: sea life is great, and like aquatic marine life is amazing,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: but we don't breathe underwater, so you have to have
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: a specific apparatus to be able to do that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's like I was thinking, as
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: like what else, I'm like, why birds? Why didn't people
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: get into like observing mice or something, Yeah, and whatever
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: it might be. And I'm like, well, I mean, first
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: of all, like, yeah, ground animals tend to hide. They
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: tend to be the same color as the ground, so
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: that they blend in there, might be too small, they
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: maybe too big, like you're not going out generally and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: trying to spot as many different bears as you can,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and then even the ones where there is like a
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: lot of them, there's not usually the kind of variety
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: like birds. The variety and sizes, shapes and colors of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: birds is staggering, like how different they can look from
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: one another. They really offer like the ideal candidate of like,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna go out and try to observe wildlife
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: and you want to see like a wide diversity of
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: a type of wildlife, like you can hardly do better
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: than birds, right, They're just kind of perfect for this.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: So it does kind of make sense, like why do
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: people get into birds and not something else. I'm like,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: there's nothing better than birds for this particular thing that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: people are trying to do right right exactly they consideration,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: and there's nothing worse than ads.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: On the spectrum of good to bad. Birds being best,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: ads being worst.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, all right, we're back. We've been describing
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: like why birds make such good candidates for a thing
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to go out in nature and track and observe if
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: you're going to do that sort of thing, And we're
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: broadly in the category right now of why people do this,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: what are the benefits for this? And another thing here
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: is that there are social organizations dedicated to this hobby,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: because there are millions and millions, tens of millions in fact,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: of people who do this in the United States alone,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: let alone in other countries who also have organizations who
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: do this. But there are special organizations dedicated to this,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and they provide information and support for people who are
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: looking to enter the hobby. So there is a built
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: in social structure that might create an opportunity important opportunities
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: to socialize with other people. This can be great for
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: older people who like just kind of want to have
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a group of people they can make friends with, they
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: can talk about birds with, they maybe go out together,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: or they meet up at things, and they otherwise are
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: kind of board sitting at home watching TV like this
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: gives something to do. Can also be true for younger
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: people who just maybe have a hard time socializing that
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: they have a shared interest in those group, so they
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: can make some friends that way. And it's just like
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: interacting with other humans, meeting people from different walks of
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: life and seeing their perspective on stuff, like there's just
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: it's a cool opportunity and socialization such an important part
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: of who we are as a species. So that's just
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: another benefit that people get out of participating in the
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: birding hobby.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely. In these and other aforementioned reasons are
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: hypothesized as the explanation for why this hobby tends to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: attract older adults. They have more time, more disposable income,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and tend to appreciate things like slowing down and taking
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: in nature more. Although as we said, many younger people
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: are realizing the same benefits and starting to kind of
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: really come into the fold a little bit.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: And finally, I think it's worth pointing out, you know,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: we are in America, the most pro capitalist place on earth.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: The finances here birding is a fairly significant economic boon.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: So for those to naysayers who maybe also find themselves
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: on the very pro economic side of things, there's a
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: lot to be gained here. Although you can find birds anywhere,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: the more dedicated hobbyists will travel to see specific birds,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and sometimes they'll travel a lot. Travel and lodging accounted
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: for fourteen billion dollars cumulatively spent by birders alone in
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Like that, many people traveling that much.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Collectively spent fourteen billion dollars. They also spent ninety three
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: billion dollars on their equipment for birding, to a grand
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: total of one hundred and seven billion dollars. And as
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: a part of that, they're buying these tickets, these these
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: they're buying hotel rooms, they're buying equipment. They spent about
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: thirty one billion dollars that was collected in taxes. So like,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of the money that they spent, thirty one billion dollars
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: was collected in taxes as well. Not to mention, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: supported one point four million jobs and generated ninety point
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: two billion dollars of labor income. So this is a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: hobby that is also very good for the tourism industry,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: local jobs, and for wherever in the spectrum you fall.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: The taxes collected by the government. So like, people choose
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to go out and do this thing, and the fact
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: that they did that helps support other government functions as well.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: And so like this it's kind of a it's its
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: own economy, this whole section of this hobby that's wild.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Now, there is something in the birding community called the
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Big Year, and there's a specific activity of some burders
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: take on that. It's called a Big Year, which begins
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: at twelve oh one am January first and lasts until
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: eleven fifty nine pm on December thirty first. During this time,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: birders dedicate an entire year to observing and recording as
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: many bird species as possible.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they take a year like this is like
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: we're doing this all day, every day for a year.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: It's called the Big Year. The American Birding Association also
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: called ABA nice fair.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: That's how we got here, That's why we did That's
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: why we did this episode.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, it's like what is ABA? And then
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: it'll just cascaded from there? What is ABA in addition
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: to what ABA already was? But anyway, the American Birding
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Association or ABA, they create a checklist for birds eligible
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: to be tracked, and then birders get this checklist and
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: they compete to complete as much of the checklist as possible.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: In the United States, there are some ground rules for this,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: but they will usually travel extensively, recording hundreds of flights
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and driving thousands of miles, and they might be specifically
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: organizing their travel to account for migration patterns and like
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: where people are reporting sightings of specific birds. They're like
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: dedicating time to this to try and get as many
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: birds as they possibly can recorded to their checklist.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they have an extensive list of rules, including
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: geographic boundaries and qualifications for what counts. Like you can't
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: go and do an exotic pet store and write down
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: all of their imported birds. That would be cheating. Yeah,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: there are lots of rules, which is really interesting.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like birds that are not native to the United
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: States don't count, or like if they're extinct. Now they're like,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: you can't record this because it doesn't exist. So there's
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: some certain rules about what doesn doesn't count and when
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: if you think about it, it does ultimately make sense.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Obviously they don't. Yeah, they don't want people cheating, and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: really there's not very much incentive to cheat because there's
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: no monetary prize. It's really just bracking rights. It is
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: considered extremely prestigious to win the competition by completing the
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: most amount of the checklist, like more than anyone else
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: does that year. But you want to complete as much
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: as you possibly can. And as far as I was
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: able to find, no one has ever completed the entire checklist.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: So it's not like a race to the end. It's
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: a find as much as you possibly can, good luck
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: type thing.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, there is evidently a documentary about this called
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: appropriately enough Big Year, which we have not seen, but
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Abraham fully intends to watch at some point, and I
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: think I would like to too, Like this has made me
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: want to do a better job of birding in my area,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: just because I think that Florida has just such a
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: unique ecosystem. But yeah, I mean, I think this is
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: just super fascinating and I would love to see this documentary.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I'm super curious about like what could be recorded in this,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, I'm given to understand it was like some
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: college students or something and they're like, we're going to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: do the Big Year, and that they sort of recorded
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: themselves doing it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I definitely want to see it. It sounds like
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I've heard really good things about
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: it so far.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: So cool. Good.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what we have to say about birding.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Came in a little bit shorter than our normal full
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: length discussions, but yeah, very fun, I would say. You know,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: for those of you listening that are have done this
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: or you're thinking about doing this, or you know somebody
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: who does this, write in tell us about it. You
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: can email us directly info at WWDWWD podcast dot com.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: You can also reach us on the social media platforms,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and we love to hear from you. Tell us your
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: thoughts on this interesting little hobby that people do. You know,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: i'd say when we're thinking about the various unpacking, this
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: is sort of functional analysis type thing. I think we
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: kind of said the things like, there's a lot of
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: social reinforcers here. I think there's some inherent sort of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: puzzly solvingness that goes on to like completing things. I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: think there is just the experience of novelty, the inherent
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: reinforcement that can come from exercise and being around nature.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: So there's like a lot of those sort of built
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: in things that are all part of what we described
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: when enumerating the benefits there. But yeah, I think that's
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: what we have to say about this. If you're joining
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: us for the first time, you may not know, but
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: at the end of our full length discussions we recommend
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: some things. They're just random things unrelated to the topic
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: that we were discussing. Most of the time that is
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the case today. So stick around. We're going to get
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: through the credits and then we'll get to some fun recommendations.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And I think we're right about the time that maybe
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: we'll punctuate the end of this discussion with some ads.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Do the credits and then recommend some things.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I love that idea.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We are going to recommend things.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: But first I would like to say thank you all
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: for listening. I appreciate you being here. If you would
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: like to support us, you can leave us a rating
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and a review. Just click those five stars and then
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: say this show's the best or whatever. I don't care,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: but I mean I do care, but like you know,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: be nice. If you have constructive criticism, you can email us.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: We can talk it out together. You don't need to
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: shoot down our rating just to be rude. You can
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: reach out to us, and I look forward to hearing
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: from you on those things. But yeah, if you leave
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: this rating and review, that helps us show up for
• 43:32
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• 43:35
  Speaker 1: So do that thing. You can also tell a friend,
• 43:37
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• 43:39
  Speaker 1: their life improves just a little bit by you being
• 43:41
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• 43:43
  Speaker 1: podcasts in their feed that they're like, Yes, I learned
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: so much every day or every week. In addition, if
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you like to support us financially, we really appreciate that
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: you can join us on Patreon. There you get early episodes,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: ad free content, bonus content, that sort of thing, and
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: I will read your name. I will say your name
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: listener out loud to our other listeners and say a
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: giant thank you to you because you have taken the
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: plunge to help us by joining us on Patreon. So
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: the people who have earned that includes Mike m Megan,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara and Charlie.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for being so wonderful.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: You're beautiful and we love you.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Indeed. Writing in fact checking from Shane and myself, thank
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you for recording with me today. Shane, Hey, thanks for
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: having me. And I have more people who help me
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: on my team and I need them. Social Media coordinator
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: is Emma Wilson, and our person in the chair who
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: does all the good sounds is God Emperor. Executive producer
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: genius extraordinaire Justin who is the best producer ever.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: He truly is couldn't ask for a better producer.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: It could not. Anyway. I think that's what we have
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to say about those things. Is there anything that I
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: forgot or that you would like to add before we
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: recommend things?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Uh? No, I think that covers it.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Cue the music.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Recommendations. My recommendation is a movie that just came out,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: and you know, it's an interesting one because it's not
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: everybody's cup of tea. And that is the most recent
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: movie that the crew from Jackass put out called Jackass
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Best and last. Now here's the thing. This is for
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: a particular generation, right, This is for like people who
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: grew up watching these guys get hurt constantly. This is
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: the last one. And it's actually like shockingly emotional because
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: they kind of talk about why this is the last one,
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: and like they're wrapping up and they're just kind of
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: moving on with their lives, and Johnny Knoxville gets like
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: really upset a couple of times, like really like cries.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: But I was thinking about this and I was like,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: you know, watching the movie, the stunts are some like
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: old clips from when they were younger. They kind of
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: do like a this is like a highlights reel plus
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: some new things, and and you know it's gross, of course,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: and like you just kind of go, oh, why they're
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: getting hurt? Oh my god, it's like it's so bad.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: And I looked it up and between the main cast
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: members of Jackass, they have estimated thirty eight million dollars
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: in medical bills wow, from these stunts, with Johnny Knoxville
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: having the most, close to ten million dollars between sixteen
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: concussions and a brain hemorrhage and then danger Air and
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: having seven point three eight million due to three broken necks.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: So these guys are you know. The thing is is
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: like the people think that they're stupid and they do
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: these things to be like this, that and the other.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: But my favorite thing about these movies and these shows
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: is not the stunts. It's the fact that they're a
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: group of friends who just kind of play off on
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: one another and encourage one another and support one another.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: And it's really, this is gonna sound ridiculous, but Jackass
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: is really just about their friendship and like how important
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: friendship is and how powerful friendship can be, and how
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: loving and supporting your friends can be. As gross as
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and stupid as they can be. So anyway, I thought
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: it was really great, and it like kind of made
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: me meditate on friendship a little bit and just I
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: don't though. It was a lot of fun. It was
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun to watch, and definitely some nostalgia
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: to go with it, you know.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Hun, all right, Yeah, they've been doing these for a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: long time, so I definitely got to imagine that as
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: they're getting up there in age, it's just getting harder
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: and harder to justify doing any of this. And as
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: you said, they maybe make a lot of money from
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: these movies, but I'm not sure that the amount that
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: they make helps offset the cost so much of their
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: medical bills. Right, at some point, it's time to throw
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: in the towel. And I can appreciate that. I hadn't
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: really plans to check this out, but you sold it
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: really well, and now I'm curious enough that I very
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: well might.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: So it's fun. It's fun, it's wild, but it's fun,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: All right, that's Jackass, the best and the last. I'm
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: recommending an album. This is the most recent release by
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the metalcore or hardcore or metal band, I don't know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: whatever genre, I don't care August Burns Red. I'm a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: big fan of these guys. I have been for a
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: long time, somewhat ironically, but this last album they put
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: out because I felt like I kind of fell off
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the train for a while. I wasn't really checking out
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: stuff they were releasing. Then I saw a music video
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: for this upcoming album and I thought, I'll check that out.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Let's see what it looks like. And I was like
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: really impressed. I was like, Wow, this song was actually
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: really fun. Then they released more and every one of
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: them I just really liked. So I and then the
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: full album came out and I've been listening to it
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm in here thinking like, this is
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: maybe the best thing they have done in almost twenty
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: years in my opinion. Wow, I think this is one
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: of my favorite albums that they have ever released. It
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: feels like they're sort of back to the thing that
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I liked about them there. There's just there's more creativity,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: there's sort of more unique approaches to things. They're kind
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: of doing stuff that's a little outside the box. That
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: feels like they're kind of going back to like let's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: do raw, let's do fast, let's do try and come
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: up with something we haven't really done before. Sure, I've
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: really really enjoyed it. So if you're into that kind
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: of thing, you know, it's screaming, it's heavy, it's that
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. But Season of Surrender by August Burns Red,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I think is one of the best things they have
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: done in a couple of decades. And so if you
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: like old August Burns Red, like specifically Messengers, that was
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: my favorite album by them. This is up there. This
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: is pretty close. I recommend checking that out.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Beautiful. I love it.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the movie Jackass, Best and Last and
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the album Season of Surrendered by August Burns Read. Those
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: are recommendations. Go check those out. I guess, and then
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: or don't whatever. I can't make you do anything, sure,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: but I think that's what you have to say about
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: all of that. So we can close this one out.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to add that I forgot
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: before we sayah, goodbyes.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Nope, not today.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, thank you all for listening. This is Abraham
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: and this is Shane. We're out.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Siya.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why We Do what We Do.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: going to WWD WWD podcast dot com, Thanks for listening
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: and we hope you have an awesome day.