Latest / Pod Save America / Why is JD Vance so Annoying?

Transcript

Why is JD Vance so Annoying? · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by Strawberry.me. The
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: clock is ticking. The days are rolling by, turning into weeks, months, years.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We spend nearly a third of our waking hours at work,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: but the unfortunate truth is that for many of us,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that's time languishing away in a job we've outgrown or
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: one we never wanted in the first place, but we
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: stick with it.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: What are you trying to say, John?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Something I got to tell you.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: You say things like, I've already put years into this place.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: What if the next move is even worse?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Not possible.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really down in the mines here. I can't afford
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: to take a wrong step. And isn't everybody miserable at work?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Don't fool yourself. There's a difference between reasons for staying
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what today's sponsor, Strawberry.me, can help you do.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: They'll match you with a certified career coach who helps
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you go from where you are to where you want
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So don't leave your career to chance. There's still plenty
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: of time to take action. Time to own your future
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: with a professional coach in your corner. The reasons to
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: do so outweigh the excuses not to do so.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Head to strawberry.me slash cricket to claim a special offer.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: That's strawberry.me slash cricket. Stop settling. Start building the career
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you actually want. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Tommy Vitor.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Happy Labor Day, everyone.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: To mark the occasion, we thought we'd pre-record an episode
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: where we take some of your questions, especially... because we
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: have now hit the 1,000th episode.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: On this exact day.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Of Pod Save America. We did it. We saved America saved.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Let's pack it up and go home.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Months of conversation about whether or not this was really
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: the 1,000th. There's zero chance it is, but.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: No, and, well, also, by the way, doesn't 1,000 episodes
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: feel like somehow, like, too many, but also not enough? Like,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: it feels like we've done more, but also, how can
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: we have done that many?
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: We've got to keep podcasting until this thing's finished.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Too many takes. Yeah.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: We've got to keep going. You know, on a slightly
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: serious note, um, The absolute best part of doing this
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: for the last eight and a half years has been
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: all of you. Not you three. People listening.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you, John.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: You're cool, too.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: You gestured forward, but it was towards the people.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the people who are out there. But getting to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: hear from a lot of you, getting to meet a
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: lot of you, knowing that a lot of you get
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to meet each other through the show, and especially seeing
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: how many of you chose not to just listen to
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: us while we whine about politics every week. but actually
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: get involved yourselves, which is the entire reason we started
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: doing this. So thank you.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so some folks sent in some great stories
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: that were inspiring, and we hope we could tell them,
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: and maybe that will inspire even more of you to
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: give it a shot, run for office, maybe get involved.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Isabel told us she started with the pod as a
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: 13-year-old when her dad would play it in the car
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: on the way to school. Sorry about the F-bombs.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: She's 13 in America.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's okay.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: I've been working on limiting my F-bombs. Doing my best, Isabel.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Isabel's dad. You too. You too.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Trag wife over here.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Isabel.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Just churning his butter. Gosh darn this Trump.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Political science.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: Isabel's in college. That does make me feel old. Becky
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: said she'd never met another Democrat before she started volunteering
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: as a poll worker. Now she has a community.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Jess M.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Went back to school as a single mom of twins
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: to teach history and government and says she plans to
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: run for office in 2028. That's cool. Bidco. Real name,
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: we're told. Ran for city council and lost. Ran again
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: and won and is still door knocking for other candidates.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: And then JK, which is the most likely to be
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: a fake name in all of these, ran for city council,
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: came up two votes short, won a seat for the
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: county board, and now really enjoys working with the person
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: that beat them the first time.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: No way. That's a great story.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: How about that?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Look at that.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Look at that.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: Bringing people together.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: So we appreciate everybody that has already signed up to run.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: But for everybody else, we are recruiting people through Vote
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Save America to run for local office in North Carolina, Texas,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: and Arizona. And for everybody else, we have a lot
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: of big races coming up. We have the redistricting in California.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: We have an incredibly exciting, inspiring candidate in New York
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: running against Mom Donnie. There's statewide races in Pennsylvania, in Georgia.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: There's a Virginia governor's race. There's a Michigan governor's race.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Dan's primary in Chris Coons?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm sorry. I've given up my residency.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Someone did ask him one of the questions, who's going
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to run Dan's campaign? So we got a couple of those.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, maybe I can move back.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I'm not a details guy, you know what I mean?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I want to be on the message calls like Axe.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I want to just think big thoughts.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: And let other people deal with it. Do a narrative.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Who's chewing in the background? Oh, let's love it.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Look, if there's anybody that should say, I'm sorry I'm
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: not on the call, I dropped a donut into my phone,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: it would be me.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: But I will send a lot of thoughts via email
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to your younger staff afterwards.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Who forgets about the call on mute when they order
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: a breakfast sandwich?
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: I'll fill that role.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So again, if you want to sign up to run
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: in Arizona, North Carolina, or Texas, go to votesaveamerica.com slash run,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: or just go to votesaveamerica.com because there's a lot of
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: ways you can help even in these upcoming elections.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to some questions. There were a
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: few questions about the midterm, so let's start there. KDR asks, Dan,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: with 2026 coming, I'm nervous about getting sucked into over-optimistic
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: interpretations of the polling, but I'm also not willing to
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: go cold turkey. What indicators, polling or not, should I
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: be watching? KDR is actually me.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I was going to say. It's like they're all fake questions.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I would begin with just the simple premise that we
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: are way far away from the 2026 elections. What the
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: polls tell us right now says is not very connected
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: to what will actually happen. But as we get closer,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I think there are three things to watch. One is
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: the polling question called the generic ballot, where they just
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: ask if you are going to vote for a Democrat
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: or Republican. Right now, even though it doesn't matter, Democrats
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: have in the average about a three-point lead in the
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: generic ballot. When we had our huge victory in 2018-
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: The last most credible polls from like the Wall Street Journal, ABC,
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: had the Democratic advantage at seven points. But most people
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: estimate that given how narrow the House is, three would
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: be theoretically enough to overcome Republican redistricting, but it would
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: be quite close. But still too early to worry about that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: The second thing to track is Trump's approval. Now, as
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Biden showed in 2022, the direct connection between a president's
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: approval and midterm performance is not what it used to
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: be because we're so polarized, there's so much negative partisanship.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: But Trump really, the only way Republicans can do very
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: well in these midterms is if a bunch of the
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: people who vote only presidential elections who voted for Trump
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: or first-time Trump voters turn.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Out in the midterms.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: And I do think Trump's approval rating is somewhat connected
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: to that measure. And then the third thing is how
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: people feel about the economy and inflation in particular. So
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: those are the sort of measures that I think will
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: tell us the most as we get closer. But there's
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: no need to panic. about it yet or get too
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: excited yet. We have a lot of time to go.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: So we're not panicking about the Democratic Party's favorability being
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: the worst it's been since at least 1990, according to Gallup.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Well, at this almost exact point in 2013, the Republican
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: Party approval rating was worse than Democrats right now.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Okay, I like that.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Then they won the Senate and picked up House seats
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: in 2014.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I haven't asked you this yet, but.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Let's do it right here live.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. How are you feeling
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: about the reliability of polling right now? Do you feel
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the same as you did in 24? Do you feel
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: different in any way?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I feel.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: The polls I've seen, especially over the last couple weeks,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: feel swingier to me in that the range of Trump
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: approval has seemed quite large.
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: So I feel better about the midterm polls because the
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: problem with polling has been getting less engaged people to participate.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: And so when you get to a likely voter filter
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: for a midterm election, you're just going to be you're
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: gonna be more accurate if it is true that we
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: continue to more accurately poll people with higher political engagement,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: which is why the polls were accurate in 2018 and
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: pretty accurate in 2022. The big question will be what
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: happens in 2028, because in 2024, the polls were right,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: but I mean, not to get super political nerd here,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: but I know you appreciate this, but they were primarily
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: right because polls reduced the statistical trick by weighting by
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: the 2020 election results. That is probably less reliable presuming
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Trump was not on the ballot in 2028. And then
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: the question is, how do you get people, that would
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: solve a lot of pollsters problems if he ran again.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: So big, big win for G. Eliot Morris, I guess.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But so hard to know. It may
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: be really hard to get. We may have a 2016
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: like problem in the polling in 2028, unless we can
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: figure out some other tactics to solve that problem.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Two very similar questions about the midterms that I'm combining.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Tyler says, all of my hope for the future is
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: riding on a Democrat midterm sweep. What are the chances
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: that the midterms will actually happen? And if they do,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: can we trust them? And Evil Gamer asks, what reason
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: does Trump or Republicans have to recognize the results in 26?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Anyone like to field that?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So we are, like, we've talked about this in the show. Like,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: there's no single moment where an election... is recognized or
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: not recognized by Trump or Republicans, we are in some way,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: to some extent, protected by the fact that elections are
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: run in this incredibly disaggregated way that will continue to
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: be the case. That doesn't mean there won't be intimidation.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean we won't be having to worry about
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: everything from people claiming the votes are rigged, people trying
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: to shut down counts, ICE agents outside of polling places.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: But Trump isn't responsible for deciding who is or is
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: not in Congress, and we shouldn't give him power. that
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: he hasn't tried to take. What does that look like?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: We don't know, but we're not in control of all
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: those pieces. We have to keep an eye on it,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: but our job is to put ourselves in a position
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to win while worrying a lot about, uh, uh, what
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: it looks like to run an election, even just, you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: 16 months from now.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Did you know the constitution gives full power on who
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: the members of the house is to the house itself?
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, yeah. The issue is that if they
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: don't seat them, Speaker Johnson, not to seat the Congress.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: So we hear, here's how this would work. So the
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: big question was, is Trump going to cancel the midterms?
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: You're naive for thinking they're going to happen. Trump can't
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: cancel the midterms. That's not a thing that can happen
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: because elections are run by states. Where the choke points
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: are where they could really play with the elections, other
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: than all the things you mentioned that happened before the votes,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: is election certification, where you have secretaries of state in
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Republican states who refuse to certify certain elections. Now, the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: good news there is that most states have pretty prescriptive
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: recount laws. And so if it's within this margin, you
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: have to recount it. And if it stays within that margin,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: then we're going to do a hand recount and all that.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: And when you get to the end of that, as
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: we saw in 2020, the courts will almost certainly side
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: that the election has to be certified because you followed
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: all the procedures. The second point is the House seats
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: the members who are elected. And in a case where
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the election is not certified, as happened with Al Franken,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: in the Norm Coleman race in 2008, you can go
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a long time without anyone, you have to wait, they
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: cannot be seated to election certified. But if election certified,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: the House could theoretically prevent someone, seating someone if there was,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: they could come up with some sort of case that
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: like this was fraud or it was stolen or all
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: of that. Now that's hard if it's already been certified.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Although the good news here is that the Supreme Court
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: has actually weighed in on this because the Democrats refused
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: to seat Adam Clayton Powell, many, many decades ago because
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: they believed that his election was corrupt. And the Supreme
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Court ruled in that case that the House's power in
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: the Constitution was specifically around eligibility issues. So if you
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: are a 25-years-old citizen for seven years, resident of the
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: district or whatever that is, then you have to be seated.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: So the Supreme Court would have to undo, I think
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: it's called Powell v. Morgan or something like that, to
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: do that. So it is There are places they can
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: do mischief, but there are guardrails around that. Now, guardrails
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: have done us a lot of good recently, but so.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I just think it requires, it's not just Trump from
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: on high.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: It would require a great deal of coordination. And by
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the way, unanimity among Republicans, and they're very narrow. You
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: just start to look at it, not saying it's not possible,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: but the election's.
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: Not going to be canceled. I sure see a path
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: of Trump. you know, beating the drum that this was
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: illegitimate and votes were stolen. And I don't want to
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: be a doomer, but like, I, it's very plausible.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I think the more that I think you hit on
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: the most important point, which is the, the, the more
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: urgent dangers are the ones that happened before the votes
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: were cast. It's suppression. I mean, Gavin Newsom brought this
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: up when we interviewed him on Ponce America about, he
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: thinks he's going to send ICE agents to stay outside of, uh,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: polling places.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I would just say this, which is, I worry about
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: everything that we're talking about. Literally everything, everything all the time. But, um,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I worry less only because what say we knew that
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: this is going to be the outcome that Trump fucks
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: with it. How's that going to change our behavior now
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and through the midterm? It's not like I don't know
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: what else we could do for between now and the
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: midterms to head off that possibility. So we might as
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: well go forward and try to win the election first
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: and then deal with the trouble when we get to.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: It's like too big to rank that plan.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: That's that's all I mean. Like, I don't want to
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: be Pollyannish and like we could look back on this
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and be like, yeah, they did the worst possible version. Absolutely.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: But we can't have people so cynical that they think
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the results aren't going to matter. And that we can't
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: overcome even if they put people outside of polling places.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that does have an effect.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You're like, well, they're not going to have the election anyway,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: so I might as well not get involved.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Self-suppress. Right.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Dan and I talked about this on Friday's pod, but
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: would love to hear what Tommy and Lovett think. Boop2U asks,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: should more Democrats take Newsom's lead and go on the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: meme offensive?
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: Tommy? Is that like giving a boop to a doggy,
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: you think? A boop to you?
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: Boop on the nose? I don't know. Whatever. I don't think, no,
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: I don't think every Democrat should do a Trump impression,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: which is what Gavin Newsom is doing. I think there's
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: a more important thing that Gavin Newsom is doing that
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: is less covered, which is a broader strategic focus on
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: independent media and progressive media. And I think what Gavin
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: is doing is he's doing tons of interviews with independent media.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: He's been on Positive America a bunch. He's talking to
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: Brian Tyler Cohen. He's talking to a bunch of YouTubers
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: and TikTokers. And that's what Trump did that was really smart.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: He talked to the so-called Manosphere podcast. He talked to
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: conservative podcasts. He talked to the comedy audiences all the time.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: And he built a relationship with those audiences. And he
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: also helped those shows build their own presence and subscriber base.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: That is really smart. And so I think the Trump
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: impression stuff is like getting him a lot of attention. Like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: I don't know. What do you guys think? In six months,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: is Gavin Newsom doing a Trump impression? I kind of
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: I'm a little bit skeptical. I think like it's its
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: utility is getting attention. And when that utility goes away,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: you probably slow down or stop doing it. But the
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: strategic focus of building up independent and progressive media is
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: really smart and long-term and enduring. And it's something every
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: single Democrat needs to do.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So there's a podcast called the diary of a CEO.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: He does a lot of these really long form interviews.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: It's incredibly popular on YouTube. And he did this interview
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: with a pioneer in AI. I was interested in, I
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: clicked on it. And then I looked two months ago,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom sat down for a two hour interview with
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: this guy. I didn't know that it wasn't something that
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: came across my feed, but that reached a huge audience
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: of people that's apolitical. And like, Whether the memes continue
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: or not, like he's thinking about how to be the
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Democrat sucking up all the attention. Like that to me
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: is the plan. It seems like it's working.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by fast growing trees.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Fall is planting season. Did you know that many plants
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: and trees actually do better when planted this time of year?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But you have to know where to start. That's why
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I love FastGrowingTrees.com.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Got to go in the ground with it.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Got to go in the ground. Got to try water, sunlight.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: That's why I love FastGrowingTrees.com. Doesn't matter if you live
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: in the sunny south or if the air is getting
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: chilly where you are, their plant experts can help you
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: find the perfect fit for your space. They have all
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the plants your yard needs like fruit trees, privacy trees,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: flowering trees, shrubs, and so much more. Fast Growing Trees
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: makes it easy to get your dream yard. Order online
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and get your plants delivered directly to your door in
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: just a few days without ever leaving home. Their Alive
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and Thrive Guarantee ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: All plants and trees are locally grown in the U.S.,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: ensuring they will thrive in your yard. Love fast-growing trees.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Huge fans here.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: We're, you know, we got a lot of dead trees
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: in our yard. Trying to do some replacing, but, like,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: we don't know what we're doing. You don't know what
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you're doing. That's why you need fast-growing trees.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: You know what they're doing? Your trees have been alive.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: They come and they consult. They help you figure out
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: where to put the trees, which trees to get. It's
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: really a great service. Yeah, and it's great they come
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to your house. Like, you don't want to go to
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a nursery anymore. To start picking out trees, and then
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: where are you putting them? Are you putting them in
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: your car, getting that dirty?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: No, it's hard.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: You can't see where you need them because you're at
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the store. So it's nice to have them just coming
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: right to your house.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: They come right to your house.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And you save a lot of money because hiring a landscaper,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that can be pricey. It can be pricey in fast-growing trees,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: very affordable. This fall, they have the best deals for
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: your yard, up to half off on select plants and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: other deals. And listeners to our show get 15% off
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: their first purchase when using the code CROOKED at checkout.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: That's 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com. using the code CROOKED at checkout.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Now's the perfect time to plant. Use CROOKED to save today.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Offers valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Check out the link, fastgrowingtrees.com, or in the show notes
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and support the show. Texas Hold'em. Do any of you
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: have a coherent theory of why J.D. Vance is so
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: singularly annoying? The more I watch of him, the less
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I'm able to put my finger on it.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's a coherent theory. I mean,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I got a couple of reasons. Like one, he's got
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: no sense of humor. Like none.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Jokester like Marco.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Well, remember in 2012 when like Mitt Romney was such
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: a stiff that it was like a political problem for
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: him and his team tried to put out like all
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: this background. It's like, he's a prankster. He's a scamp.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: He's a scallywag. Remember that shit?
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Scallywag Mitt.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It was such obviously.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: Bullshit because then Mitt Romney would do interviews and be like,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: I love humor. It's just no one talks like that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: And the same as with J.D. Vance. Like, JD Vance
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: is a very angry, constantly aggrieved, whiny dude. It doesn't
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: matter if it's like a podcast interview or a speech
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: to all of Europe. He's just angry and aggrieved. And
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: then second, like the guy is a shapeshifter politically in
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: terms of his own identity. He's had several different names.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: He's changed his religion recently. He has evolved his political
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: worldview entirely. So like, I don't know. I think that
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: phoniness and authenticity is what reads great.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Do you think he's legitimately aggrieved or performatively aggrieved?
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I think he's legitimately an angry little prick.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I've come to believe that as well. I've thought about
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: this a lot. This question, I wanted to pick it
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, yes, I feel the same way. I'm
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: so enraged with him all the time, but I don't
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: know why. He has a rationale that everything they do
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: is justified because the left hates America and is ungrateful
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: to him and his ancestors for who are the rightful
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: heirs to this country, and he's fucking smug.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Who was he demanding offer gratitude yesterday? We were watching
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: an interview.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was demanding, oh, well, he's done it to Mamdani.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: He's done it to, obviously, Zelensky. There was someone else.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: That I, you and I were watching, we were all
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: watching J.D. Vance at our office, and you're getting mad
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: about something. I think it was Mamdani.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: But, and the fucking smugness, too. Like, when he, because
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: the fight that I got in with him over Kilmar
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Brego Garcia was, he was like, You know, I commented
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: on the fact that like they made a mistake and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: whatever else. And he was like, obviously, you haven't read
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the court document on this and blah, blah, blah. Like
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: he's like a big and then it's like when you
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: read the court document, which his tweet complaining about it
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: is now evidence in the case because the court document
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: said the opposite of what. So he wasn't just wrong.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: He was like, Oh, you obviously haven't read it yet.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Blah, blah, blah.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, you didn't read it. You fucking moron. But
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: he's so confidently smug that it's real. And the thing,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: the difference with Trump is like Trump's tone is almost like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I know I'm full of shit, but at least I'm
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: going to have some fun with it. And you're, it's
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: back to your original point. Like there is no, humor.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: There's no having fun with anything. There is just like,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: just dire smug grievance. Yeah.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: There's something I feel like I agree with that. Like I,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I always see him and I feel like there's two
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: parts of it. One is he is, he is a shapeshifter.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: He's been performing different people his whole life. And you
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: just feel in everything he does, the space between whatever
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: he was, which is now nothing. And what he is now,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: you see that when he's in the donut shop, you
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: see that like that there's just quiet. Like, like when,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: when he's not putting on a show, it's so quiet.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and so stuck and awkward and strange. And I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: there's rage in him about all of that. You can
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: feel it from him. But the other part of it
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: is he made it. He made it. He made it
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: out of Ohio. He made it to the heights of
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: liberal elite culture. Then he switched sides and made it
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: to the very top. of right-wing culture. And he's still
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: fucking furious. It's not working. He's not happy. He seems
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: angry all the time. He's not getting the meaning from
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: it he hoped. And who could be responsible for that?
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It's not him. It's not Trump. He's doing everything he's
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: supposed to do.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: It's us.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: It's the liberals.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: It's the left. Text from Michael O'Neill incoming. He made
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: it out of Ohio.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: And my wife.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: He made it out of a tough part of Ohio.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: You know, he had like a rough go of it.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't watch the movie, but the trailer
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: went closely rough. She was in that muumuu. It seemed
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: like it was tough. I don't know what actually happened
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: in his childhood. I think a lot of, I don't know.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I will, all this to say though, I still think
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: he is a very dangerous, not just dangerous for what
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: he can do governing wise, but in 2028, I do
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: not underestimate him as a very strong candidate, even though
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: he does not have the charisma clearly that Donald Trump
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: has or a lot of other politicians.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: He is a incredibly dangerous human being. He is someone
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: who's like very interesting to think of in comparison to
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Barack Obama, because on paper, like there's the similar background of,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: like J.D. Vance is vice president of the United States
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: now because of his, the way he told his own story, right?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Similar to how Barack Obama did, right? Both in Dreams
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: of My Father and the speech. And they both come
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: from what are really, really hard backgrounds. Obama, son of
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: a single mother, father leaves on food stamps.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: J.D.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Vance's story is told in a movie trailer. But the
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: difference between the two of them is what Barack Obama
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: took from his experience was like, how do I help
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: all the people who came up like I did? And J.D.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Vance is, how do I screw over all the people
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: who came behind me? He just burns the bridge behind him.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: And it's very.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Malicious. Like it's like shame of where he came from
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: as opposed to understanding his true story and like what,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: how that should inform his values.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Ben Rhodes and I have been talking about this a
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: lot because it does feel like when we were talking
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: about that Claremont speech and we talked about it on
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: offline too, that he is the almost mirror image of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Obama story. Cause they both have these stories, but they
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: both went like very different ways.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And they don't worship an awesome God in the blue state.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And fuck little league.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: Um, All right.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: This is from over under Tommy. What do you think
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: is the top foreign policy issue that we should be
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: paying more attention to talking more about?
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's an obvious one, but it's
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: climate change. Climate change. Sure. I think China. It's weird
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: because Trump ran on being tough on China. It was
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: like the centerpiece of his populist pitch. And now it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: just absent from the conversation. And it's sort of weird
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: to me. Like and then. I think as president, he's
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: been soft on China. He recently agreed to let NVIDIA
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: sell these pretty high-powered AI chips to the Chinese, which
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: is very weird. He's been soft on Taiwan. The tariffs
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: have been all over the place. And then Trump made
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: this announcement the other day where he's said we would
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: allow 600,000 Chinese students into the United States to study.
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: And it's actually inflamed the right wing. And it's just
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: hard to understand. And so Ben and I are going to,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: Rhodes and I are going to dig into this deeper
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: on how to take the world next week. But I
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: do think Like, given the stakes involved, it's odd that
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: there's not more conversation about it.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you, what's going on in Venezuela? Are
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: we going to war with Venezuela? What is happening there?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Are we attacking them?
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: They're sending a bunch of naval ships and assets down
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: to the region for, like, counter cartel something.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: To interdict boats?
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: No.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: Well, there's been a steady kind of effort to name
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: drug cartels and gangs as terrorist organizations. Yeah. to officially
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: designate them and to sort of like socialize this idea
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: of going to war with cartels, with or without the
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: approval of the countries involved, where the cartels are actually working,
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: like Mexico, for example. And now we're setting naval assets
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: down to the region. It feels like they are trying
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: to merge the war on drugs and the war on terror.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And what could go wrong. Do you think they have
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: red flags? the book or seen the movie Clear and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Present Danger?
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Probably not.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Or the movie Sicario, Day of the Soldado, which is
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: the exact plot of?
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I've not seen that.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Dan, I think about the movie Clear and Present Danger
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: all the time. It's one of the movies that are
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: part of a canon of political thrillers where the end
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: result is someone tells the truth publicly to solve the problem.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: And if you imagine now a deep stater going before
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Congress and saying, actually, President Trump did this in a
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: corrupt way, the credits don't roll. The problem isn't solved.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It's so funny. We've 1,000 episodes. I feel like we've
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: had this conversation before.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: We did, in fact, and I remember because the last
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: time I said it's also the plot of Lioness season,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Special Operations Lioness season two, and you guys said, what
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: the hell is that? And so I left that out.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: It was actually the last time we did a mailbag,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: to be clear.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Hey, hey, it's a good enough point to hear it again.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Who is the most controversial guest that you would low-key
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: have on the show?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: You can't low-key have a guest. You can't ironically have
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: a guest. But yeah, who would we want?
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I didn't.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, I'm just quoting. I know, I'm
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: just thinking about it.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Isn't the question, doesn't it come down to, would you
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: have Trump on the show?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: For sure, yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: J.D. Vance, sure. Yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: He won't come on. Hunter. I think Tucker Carlson would
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: be interesting.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I think this gets it. Would you ask him about
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: his new 9-11 truther documentary that he's in?
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: No, I'm unaware of that.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: But you would ask him if he was on.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Well, I'll be honest with the listeners. I reached out
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: to him when he was talking about his opposition to
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: the U.S. bombing Iran. and asked if he would come on.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: He declined, but he was polite about it. But I
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: think he occupies an interesting space where he's clearly MAGA,
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: has some very extreme views that I find abhorrent, but
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: also doesn't always toe the party line in a way
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: that is interesting and I think makes him powerful in
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: that space.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And then there's the creeping anti-Semitism that he's more and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: more flagrantly putting on display. That's part of it too.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: It gets to the bigger question, which we get a lot,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: depending on when we have guests, is like, why are
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: you platforming these people? And I think one of the
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: points I think we've tried to make to people is
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: if someone already has a huge platform.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: They are platformed.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: They are already platformed, right? And so the goal here
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: is to have a conversation where you can hold them
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: accountable for some stuff. You can ask hard questions. You
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: can engage in a conversation on like, at least you
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: put with Tucker Carlson, like an area.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, my goal with Tucker would have been to talk
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: about why going to war with Iran is a bad
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: idea and why Republicans and Democrats both agree that Donald
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Trump shouldn't get sucked into this conflict.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Someone is influential. You can't stop the influence. Uh,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: so just by, by not having them on different shows.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: We've tried that.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Remember, remember Twitter, Twitter and Trump.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: And everyone got upset. Bernie Sanders talked to Joe Rogan
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and then it's like, well, that, that didn't work.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Did it?
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: You guys have any controversial guests you'd have on? Mine
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: would be Matt Iglesias. Okay.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: Kidding.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I just don't even think about it that way anymore.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I just think that that's like not a way to
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: think of like whoever would be interesting to talk to.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Biggest Dickus asks, didn't make that up. Serious question. I'd
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: really like to hear the crooked people's opinion on. I'm
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a government side civil defense attorney and I'm being softly
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: recruited to be a civil assistant U.S. attorney in a
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: major metropolitan city.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: I'm here.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: So it's fair to say I don't share the politics
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of the administration here being our discourse. This is a
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: job I've really always wanted, but the realities of the
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: moment make me want to run away. Is there any
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: value or realistic need for people like me who care,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: are ethical, et cetera, and joining the federal government at
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: this time, presuming that eventually we're back in control? Would
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I just be setting myself up to be purged and
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: then hit the market with a scarlet letter on me?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I thought this was interesting.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Can I ask a question that someone else can answer
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: the substance? Do you think you end up with the
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: discord name Biggest Dickest? Because you join to talk about
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Call of Duty when you're 13, and then your interests
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: evolve over time.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: They're talking about why.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: And all of a sudden, you just have the name
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: Biggest Dickest, and you don't even realize it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Do you remember messaging important communications advice to someone named
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Yum Petri Scream?
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, that was our friend Bill Burton.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: On AOL Messenger, the Discord of our time.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I thought about this one. I think I would not
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: have said go in to the administration in the first term.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I think in this term, you do it. And I
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: think you try to be a reasonable voice. You try
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to push things in the right direction. And failing that,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: at least be there to document what's going on and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: to hopefully tell people. Like, I kind of think that's
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the situation we're in right now.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Go in and take copious notes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I do.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: And that specific role, yeah, like that specific role, right,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: would be you'd have a pretty, there's a pretty big
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: kind of like, Yes or no question around whether or
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: not you should be there when you're sort of handed
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: a case. You're like, oh, this is about trumped up
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: charges against Kilmar, Abrego, Garcia. I'm out. But until then,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: being inside and being a good person inside, like it's
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: not about whether you take the job or not. Someone
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: will be in the job. Should it be you or
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: should it be somebody else?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the people who quit because they
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: didn't want to bring the case against Abrego, Garcia in Tennessee,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that was a signal to everyone else and to future
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: judges and future courtrooms that like, yeah, this is a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: fucked up case.
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I guess I don't know how much discretion you
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: have in these jobs, really. I defaulted to where you were. Like,
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: I think take the job, see if you can improve
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: it from within. The person who's going to take it,
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: if you don't, will probably be worse. Yeah. But, yeah,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: at some point you're going to get asked to prosecute
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: the dude who threw a hoagie and, you know, then
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: it's nut cutting time and you walk out.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you, like, you stay there forever, right?
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking about all the CDC folks that
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: just got pushed out, right? And they were like, look,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: didn't agree with them, wanted to try to make it work,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: tried my hardest to, like, you know, do the MAHA
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: agenda with as much integrity as we could have and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to make it as best as possible and it just
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: didn't work, you know?
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: Can I just read for everyone a quick Maha headline? Yes, please.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Because I just want everyone to know how healthy we
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: are making this nation. I'm vamping because this Twitter is slowly,
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: slowly loading. New York Times headline, Pediatric Brain Cancer Group
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: to Lose Federal Funding. A network dedicated to early phase
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: trials of treatments for children with brain cancer will be
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: phased out. Thank you very much to RFK Jr., the
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: HHS team, and everyone at the Maha world making us
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: healthier by, you know, Throwing kids out of a trial
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: for pediatric brain tumors.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Can I give you another MAHA headline from today?
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Yes, please.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: Also from the New York Times. The Dr. Oz Run
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services today is launching a
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: pilot program where they will now require prior authorization for
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: medical procedures. And normally in Medicare, you do not need that.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: They just grant it. And they've hired AI companies who
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: are going to use AI to decide which are needed
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: and which aren't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: AI death panels.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: AI death panels.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Robot death panels.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: That's what we're at.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: And the AI companies make money based on the savings
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: they get Medicare, so they're financially incentivized to deny care
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: to seniors on Medicare.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Pilot program in six states.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: I hope it's Palantir.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: A couple of them are swing states. I noticed Arizona's
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: on that list.
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: How do we not make a thing out of AI
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: death panels? I know.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: What are we doing, Democrats?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: The AI death panels are a distraction. From what?
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: From the pediatric cancer.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: From what? From what?
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: The tariffs.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Friendly cabager merchant. What does Crooked see as the next
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: steps for a strong progressive media ecosystem? A convention or
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: policy event similar to what MAGA has? Media partnerships consolidation? Boy,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: do we have an event for you guys. It's called CrookedCon.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It's called CrookedCon.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: I hope CrookedCon is much like TPUSA where there's... Alleged
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: fingering in the lobby. There's fistfights between MAGA influencers.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. This is the first time I'm hearing of
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: supposed fingering.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh. Dude, you got to read about Will Summer. Oh,
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: you might have been on vacation when this came out.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Will Summer at the Bulwark did a long report on
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: a huge Twitter fight between some MAGA influencer types that...
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Revolved around Allegations Alleged, that's right Consensual fingering Oh yeah,
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: very much so Just in a public space Consensual, but like,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: you know People might have been married And there's all
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: these Allegations Apparently a lot of shit Goes down at
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: TPUSA Of a sexual nature Yeah, so.
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: CrookedCon Is going to be like that For sure CrookedCon CrookedCon.com
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: Get your tickets Meet the love of your life See
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: you in the lobby Meet the love of your life
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: Or meet the love of your weekend Huh?
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Goodcon.com.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Did you guys read that directly for the marketing team's pitch?
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: I think that works. I think that's pretty good.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Anyone else want to pitch Crooked Queen? I mean, I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: think that was the best pitch for it.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: We're going to have a good time.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Less pointing fingers among Democrats.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: Less finger pointing.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Less finger pointing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: More.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: The circular firing squad is something else entirely.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Triggered.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: Oh, boy.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy. I'm out.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: What was that, Tommy? I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. Get back
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: to your butter churning.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: This is my bad. This is my bad.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I understand you have a new sourdough loaf you're starting.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: You've got a new starter.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, boy.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Well, I guess he technically did not use profanity there.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: That did not.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: That is true.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: We're excited about Cricket Con. It's filling up fast. Yeah.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to Pod Save America the night before. Don't
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: care about it.
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: Jesus.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: We're going to Pod Save America the night before, November 6th.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Live show. We haven't done a live show in a while.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I know. It'll be great.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: And then on Friday the 7th, we're just going to...
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: We're going to have all these panels. They're not robot
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: death panels. We're going to have people, really smart, great people.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Some of the brightest minds in the party.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Some of the brightest minds in the party and us.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: Some big game politicians.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Some overlap in that Venn diagram.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Hopefully more as.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: We go along.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: We're going to have some good conversations. And, you know,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: we hope to see you all there. CricketCon.com.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is brought to you by HIMSS. HIMSS
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: can't solve snoring or blanket stealing, but when it comes
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: to performance, Tommy, they've got you covered.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Rock solid.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Take control of ED with personalized treatments made with proven
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: ingredients prescribed by licensed providers 100% online. Through HIMSS, you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: can access personalized prescription treatment options for ED like hard
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: mints and SexRS Plus what? Climax Control. If prescribed, HIMS
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: offers access to ED treatment options ranging from Hardman's to
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: trusted generics that cost 95% less than brand names. You
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: like yourself. HIMS brings expert care straight to you with
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: 100% online access to personalized treatments that put your goals first.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Or goal. Single goal. Seems to be pretty simple. One
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: of the goals is pretty simple. You know?
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: This isn't a one-size-fits-all care that forgets you. Well, it
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: couldn't be one-size-fits-all. You know, when you think about it.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Doesn't forget you in the waiting room. It's your health
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: and goals put first with real medical providers making sure
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: you get what you need to get results. Think of
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: HIMSS as your digital front door. It's your front door
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: to get in the back door with simple 100% online
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: access to trusted treatments for ED and more all in
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: one place. To get simple online access to personalized affordable
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more, visit HIMSS.com
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: slash crooked. That's HIMSS.com slash crooked. For your free online visit, hymns.com
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: slash crooked. Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality prescription required.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information vis-a-vis boners.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Do any of you guys play fantasy football? Are you
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: excited for football in general this year? Are the Pats back?
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: You want to start with the Pats, Tommy?
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know if we're back, but we're better. I mean,
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Drake may look good. Mike Vrabel's good. Josh McDaniels is back.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: Pick it up. Stefan Diggs is good. Yeah, we get
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: some good players.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: So I play fantasy football. I play a lot of
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: fantasy football. Are you in multiple leagues? I'm in multiple leagues.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: That's hard to keep track of, Dan.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm in two main leagues. I have a dynasty
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: league on top of that. And I now play best
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: ball fantasy football. Which is basically you draft your team
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the year. You play in large
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: field tournaments. And then you don't have to do anything.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: It just takes the best scores. You have to manage it.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: That is so much to keep track of.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Well, the best ball thing, once you do it, it's done.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I was in 2020 and I was like, I could
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: barely fucking pay attention.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: I think more people in politics should do fantasy football.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to urge people to do gambling. But
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: I do think there is a real lesson in understanding...
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: that's applicable to political strategy, that is understanding value and
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: understanding ceiling versus floor outcomes. Because that's what you're always
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: trying to pick. You're trying to find someone who has
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: the best possible outcome and you're willing to take on
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: additional risk to do that. And the Democratic Party lives
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: in a world of high floor, low ceiling in all
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: of our decision-making. But yeah, I am a fan of
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: football lunatic. I really picked it up during the pandemic
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: and haven't let it go.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I moved out here in 2014 and that
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: was like the last year I paid attention. to sports
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: in any way because my head started getting like so
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: into politics and every year I'm always like I think
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I want to get like it's because baseball's really there's
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: just like so many fucking baseball games but football's like
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: really fun every Sunday I watch football and every year
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: I'm like I'll either do fantasy football or something that
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: makes me pay attention to football. Now that I have
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: fucking two kids, it's like, I don't know how I'm
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: going to do it.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Well, so I was a Washington Commanders fan, which you
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: couldn't even use the name of my team for like
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: a decade in public discourse, so it's very hard to
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: follow them.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: We're going to be heading back to it, though.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: That's right, according to Trump.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, good point.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: So fantasy was the way in which I stayed very
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: involved in football. And also, living on the West Coast,
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: football is great because it's every day at 30. It
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: starts at 10 a.m., which is awesome. And then if
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: you have small children, on the London game, it starts
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: at 6 a.m.
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Is like a real gift.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: Bet the Lunder. You know, this conversation made me think
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: of something that pissed me off about J.D.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: Vance.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I remember what it was.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: So J.D.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: Vance did an interview yesterday with this guy on Fox
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: named Will Kane, who's basically got a set of veneers
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: who was given a show. And they were talking about like,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: they were talking about Ohio State versus Texas, I think.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: And clearly he'd been prepped that this was going to come, right?
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: Because like Will Kane's like, I got my orange tie
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: and you're a Buckeyes guy, J.D. And J.D. 's like,
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: I'm told that the Buckeyes are an 11-point dog. And
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: Will Kane, who came from sports media, was like, no.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: that's not even close to the line on the game.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: He couldn't even pretend to be nice to him. It
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: was funny because it was a rare moment when Will
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Cairns was like, what are you talking about?
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: If you understand anything about gambling lines or football, it
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: would be fucking absurd for the defending national champion.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: 11 points.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: It's a dog at home.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: It's impossible.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: It's crazy. Again, total phony- Was beclowned on Fox News.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: By a clown, literally.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: By a clown.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: It was the first beclowning ever done by an often
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: beclowned person, Will Kane.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: To our earlier conversation, immediately blamed someone nameless on it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, blamed his staff.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Someone sent me a link with the line.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Someone sent me that line.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Did they?
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Did they? I think you had a prep document.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Glad that you're getting good information all the time. You
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the Pats at all? Did we
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: talk about the Pats?
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Pats?
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Sorry.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's done.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Which part?
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: This part of the show.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: It's the longest you've ever been silent on a podcast.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Monica Not Monica asks, Labor Day special, since it's Labor Day.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: You are attending a holiday cookout and must choose between
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a paper plate with two hot dogs, a scoop of
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: potato salad, and a wedge of watermelon, or a paper
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: plate with a cheeseburger, bean salad, and two chocolate chip cookies.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: There is a condiment table with standard toppings, but between
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: you and it is someone who wants to critique your
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: recent Twitter posts, so you may have to do without.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: You have arrived late, and the only remaining beverage to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: pair with your food is LaCroix Limoncello. Which plate are
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: you taking?
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: This question hurt my head.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Why is the paper versus normal plate, why is that
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: so highlighted?
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Because I'm sure this person thinks you don't need a
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: straw with your coffee. So I think it's, for me.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, I missed the paper plate part.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Here's what I do. I take the cheeseburger in one hand.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I take the two cookies. I just throw the bean
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: salad out.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: 100%. Now I'm mobile. And the limoncello.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want the limoncello.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: It's the whole thrust of the question. They're trying to
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: figure out whether you want a hot dog, hamburger, bean salad, whatever.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: And whether you love condiments so much that you engage
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: in an awkward conversation about your Twitter feed to get them.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I just took it as like, you can't have any condiments,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: which plate do you pick?
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: To me, it's easy.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: I just pick the hot dogs.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would pick the hot dogs.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Bean salad is not that, and I like watermelon, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: bean salad is not that great. What is a bean salad?
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: It's like, there's some mayonnaise in beans. Let me tell you.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: And I like potato salad, and I like hot dogs.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's great.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: That's me. I don't know. Anyone else got it?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: And I think if somebody criticizes... I think the best
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: thing to do if somebody talks to you about something
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: you don't feel like talking to them about, just agree
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: with them more than they ever expected. It was a
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: stupid post. Right here, I'm out.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: You're right. You got my number. I totally hear you.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: It was stupider than even you're saying. Man, do I
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: regret that.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Moving on. Have never gotten in a fight with someone
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: in person over my tweets.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is not likely to happen.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I know that could surprise a lot of you. Handypants...
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: You guys have been doing the podcast.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Candy Pants sent this in directly from TPUSA. Confirm the
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Crooked Kong, Candy Pants.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: You guys have been doing the podcast for a good
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: while now. A thousand episodes. Looking back at those first
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: few years, how have each of you changed as podcast hosts?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Who would like to begin? See, there's a lot of growth.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: I changed this show. That's what I've been hearing.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think we, over the years, I mean,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: part of it is did we change? Did the environment change?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: But I do think one thing, it got worse, I think,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: during the pandemic. We said from the beginning, we had
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: a slogan, we want to entertain, inform, we want to
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: inspire action. And informing people and talking about what people
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: do to get involved, that's a little bit more objective
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: than what's subjective, which is just being entertaining. And I
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: think there were times where We got so concerned about
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: the mission that we didn't focus enough on like what
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: we were really in, which is this crazy attention war.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: And I think sometimes we felt like, oh, people would
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: message us like, you guys got to talk about climate change.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: It's so important. And so then we would try to
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: force it in or try to prove we were doing
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: what we were meant to do as like good members
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of the resistance, which led to, I think, a worse product.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: And I think we've gotten more comfortable just feeling like
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: it's very important that people come back because it's like
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: a fun conversation. And that's not like a nice thing.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: It's like a necessary thing. I think that's one thing
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: we've done differently over the years.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: It's taken me a while and I've not gotten there yet,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: but I think more about what do I want to
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: say about this and less about how is it going
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: to land necessarily. Because I think if you're constantly like, oh,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: this take will get me in trouble or someone's going
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: to be mad about this and whatever else, then it
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: just makes you, it makes the conversation tighter and also
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: just harder to have. And you just start feeling like,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: if I have a platform to say this stuff, I
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: might as well say what I, it does not to
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: not be thoughtful about what you believe, but like, I
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: just try to say what I believe, you know?
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Like I love doing this podcast. I'm very grateful to
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: you guys for starting this company so I can do
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: this podcast. Like I love talking about politics. I love
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: talking about smart, entertaining people who are my friends. I
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: would say that for a very long time, I like
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: had a real identity crisis about being a podcaster. It's just,
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: it's like in my life, like I always was like
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: a political operative. Like that's what I was from the
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: second I left college. And just what I always was.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden I was a podcaster.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: And I will say that when I left the White House,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Barack Obama, as he would do, had some life advice
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: for me. And I told him that I was like
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: negotiating with CNN about doing like a cable deal. And
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: it's like Axe was doing that. Jay Carney had just
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: finished one. Like a bunch of his people were doing it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: He's like, that's a good thing to do right away.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Like keep your profile. It's like, but I just don't
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: want to look up in 10 years and still see
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: you on cable TV all the time. Like that's not
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: what you want. And so like that haunts me.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I was like, boy, don't worry about that. That whole
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: autonomy is going to fall apart.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: And so that like has always haunted me about like, Like,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: we're media people. And it's this conflict between... And then
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: he went and started a media company.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. He's doing a podcast.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Anyway, check him out with Bruce Gracie.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Well, I can't turn on Netflix without hearing his voice
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: talking about some migrating manatees.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: These manatees make the cars right here in America.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: But.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: It took a while.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: It really has been probably since the last couple of years,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: we're just like, this is politics now. Politics and media
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: are the same, and it's information warfare. Even though I
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: would say those things and write those things, it took
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: a while to adjust in my head that the way
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: I will contribute to politics is not being on conference calls,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: going through polling data for candidates like you used to do,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: or working on messaging or pitching reports or other things.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: It's having a platform and using it and thinking about
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: ways in which you can grow the platform and other
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: people can grow the platform and stuff like that. It's
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: understanding that media is politics now.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. You want to clear a room, tell people
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: you're in podcasting. You know what I mean?
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you the hardest thing about just like
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: going about life is when you're like at, at the
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: playground with your kids and, or you're at a birthday
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: party with your kids and like, so what do you do?
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's hard. I never engaged on that.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Well, in an Uber on the way home from a
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: trip recently, I told the guy I was a consultant and,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: And usually that just like ends the whole thing. And
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: he's like, what are you a consultant in? And I
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: was like, PR. He's like, you mean like marketing? And
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: then he, I then had an hour conversation where I
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: just had to pretend I was in marketing because his
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: wife was in marketing.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Do you know how many Uber drivers I've just said
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: podcasting and then by the end of the Uber, they're like, oh,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: I can't do that.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: I would not be in sales. The reaction to this
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: had changed a lot over time. Like 2017, when I
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: was like, Hannah, can we please move from San Francisco
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: to Los Angeles so that I can do a podcasting
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: company with my friends? It was like, that was a
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: challenging conversation. You know, there are people in my life
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: who are like, you have a plan B, right? There's
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: a lot of that. She's pretty happy now, isn't she?
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: Now it's far more mainstream.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Jeez.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: Dirty, hairy threat of my wife.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Pretty happy now, woman.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: No, now it's like a very different thing. It's like what,
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: like it was a much more niche thing. I think
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: it's more widespread. I think you're right, Dan, though, that
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: like the kind of media piece of politics is so
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: much more important now. It's much more central. It's like,
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: I think the way I would think about it is
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: like we all spent so much time shaping the words
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: and now the clear challenge is getting the words to
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: the people and like being a part of the last
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: mile is like interesting and fun.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Schumerfan69. If in the near future someone can go to
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: chat GPT and ask it for a political podcast to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: catch up on the day's news, are you worried you
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: will be replaced?
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: Kinda. I mean. there'll probably be an older, like some
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: generation that wants real people to do their news. So
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: then there's going to be folks who just could care less.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: That's what I think.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I've been working on a, on the side in AI
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: podcasting company. Yeah.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Are they going to let, are they going to let
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: you be part.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Of AI, Dan?
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: I'm starting out in charge. How that ends, I don't know.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's called great point, Dan. I'm like, I go
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: back and forth about, I feel like AI, we get,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: we get bogged down because it's like an abstraction, right? Like,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: it's a, it's a tool that can do a lot
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: of different things. And so like, was the hammer good for, like,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's a very, it's, it's a very broad question.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: And I feel like sometimes it's like, do I think
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: like technology that can imitate real people to confuse people
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: into thinking they're real is good? I don't do, am
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I as worried about that as I am all these
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: other implications? No, because on some level, like it would
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: just be doing an impression of the things that already existed.
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: And people ultimately are seeking something out that feels new.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: So it's like, Am I worried about something that's kind
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: of a mirror of what people have already done? Not
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: as much, but maybe not as much as I should be.
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about AI a lot, as anyone who listens
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: to offline knows. But on this point, I do think
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: there's a limit to... AI is limited by its inability
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: to be creative. For now. For now. But if AI
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: is always going to be scraping the internet or the
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: entire world for information, and that's what's... There's just something...
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And I notice it when you... Just to try it out, like...
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: when you ask it to write or you ask it
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: to do stuff like that, it's just not, I know
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: it's going to get a lot better. I can imagine
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it being extremely proficient and accurate and all this kind
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: of things, but there's just an added, like the, the,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the humor I think is not as good as it could,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: as sharp as it could be. It's just, it's, I
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: don't know if it'll ever completely replace human creativity in
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: terms of just like being a newsreader. Yeah, no, I
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: think that's a, yeah, it's like.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: It's hard to, it's like hard to wrap your mind
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: around because it's like the technology is improving and it's like, okay,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: what can it improve? Like, what does it look like
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: when it's maximally improved and what are the limits that
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: are like endemic to the technology? And one of the things,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: one of the like limits of it is like, It
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: is of the past. It has to be of the past.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: And we're making new things.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: And that is a protection. That is something that I
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: think it traps you in the moment it did its scraping.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: And that can never change. Right. No matter how good
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: it gets.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: It can't change. I mean, we're all trapped for the
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: past and we have the capacity to take what's in
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: the past and.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Use it to project.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: New things forward.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: That's sort of where I am too. It's like, I
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: think that's what creativity is. It's like kind of taking
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: information that already exists in your brain and like connecting
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: different strands than might thematically, people might not think of otherwise.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I think what it's missing though is human, is individual
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: human experience.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Like I can't ever, that's the thing.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: Potentially, unless Tilla reads all the memoirs in the world.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Well, but then like, okay, it's also, when it does,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: when like you see a photo, or when like someone
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: makes a video or a fake photo, wow, that looks
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: really real. It only has a function in a world
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: where people expect most things to be real, right? What
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: is it doing an impression of, of real things, right?
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: And in a world where there are fewer of those
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: real things, it starts to have less meaning and have
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: less utility because it has to do the trick. Like
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: it has to do the function of replacing someone. Those
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: people need to exist to be replaced. Right, right.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. Kristi Gnomes Injector asks, Due to a
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: series of shocking coincidences and mishaps, you find yourself trapped
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: in an undersea habitat, stocked with food and water and
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: little else. The seas are rough, and it will be
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: between two and three weeks until you are rescued. Oh,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: so two and three weeks.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: You are down there with one other person. It's either
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, Don Jr., or Marjorie Taylor Greene of the three.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Who do you hope it is? It's an easy one.
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: Don's got drugs.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: It's not Stephen Miller.
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's... It's an easy one for you.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Greene?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Marge.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: What a great way to meet your crush.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing workouts.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: You were going to go Don Jr.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: Well, I just want to make a joke about him
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: having a bag. But I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: a more fully formed person, surprisingly.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is when I made up these questions.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Those two were tied for me.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: Stephen Miller's like, you push him out of the habitat.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I thought it was more evenly balanced.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I pushed myself out of the habitat.
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: You did?
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Kristi Noem's Injector. Yeah, I'm Kristi Noem's Injector.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love it to this question.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: And I thought it would be more balanced in part because, yeah, like, yes,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: but as I say it, no, I think we all, like,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I would rather spend the time with Marjorie Taylor Greene
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: because I do think she has a genuine ideology, but
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: so does Stephen Miller, but he's so heinous. But wouldn't
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: you maybe learn something trying to kind of understand him?
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: No. I don't think I could do that.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Keep in mind on Katie Miller's podcast, J.D. Vance did
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: say if he could pick one cabinet member to fly
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: transatlantic with next to on a plane, he would pick
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller. Even though Stephen Miller's not in a cabinet,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: that's how much he likes Stephen Miller.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: He said that to Stephen Miller's wife.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she gave him an out with the cabinet.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: But just a perfect example of why he's the phoniest loser.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: That is such a lame answer. It is not what
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: the question asked. You're kissing the ass of the person
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: you're naming. It is like, you suck.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: In fairness, probably more powerful than most of the cabinet, though. Yeah.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: I think the answer has to be Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, just imagine you could egg her on for
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: conspiracy theories. Like, Marjorie, it's day seven here. So I'm
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: waiting for the rescue boat. tell me about the Jewish
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: space laser again.
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: Or the CrossFit classes for free.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: You think you could get, though, good info out of
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Don Jr. that could be useful to his dad? Yeah,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: that's the only thing.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: That just popped into my head.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: He probably has good stories.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I think as many intelligence agents have figured out
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: over the years, a little bit of flattery, a couple drinks,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: he eventually softens.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: That's true. Okay. This is Lovett's second question. I'm with
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: that little girl is me.
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: Solid combo.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: You can open a portal right now. You will either
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: see yourself 20 years ago or 20 years from now.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Would you rather tell your past self about the future
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: to change our present or learn about the future so
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that you can shape it from this point forward? That's
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a really good one.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely going to the future. I feel pretty good
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: about where my life is now. Wait. You can either
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: go to the past and make your present better or
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: you can go to the future and have knowledge back
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: to the present.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: And you'll go to the future.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: I'll go to the future, both because I think you
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: can maybe help shape the world, but also, just like
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: in Back to the Future 2, I would get the
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: lottery numbers and the Super Bowl winners.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Austin has a thumbs up to that.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: You go back in time, you either say, buy Bitcoin,
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: or you go in the future and.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: You tell yourself, run from the machines.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, tell the machines you really like them starting in 2022.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Be nice to the machines.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: What if you go to the future, though, and it's
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: just like an apocalyptic wasteland?
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: That'd be bad.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: And you don't know how or why.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: You've really caused me to question my initial answer here.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting about this, what I like about this
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: is this is going in the direction I thought, because
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I did think everyone's initial response would be, well, I
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: love my life. Yes, Trump is bad and things are bad,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: but this is the life that I have and where
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I led. I'd love to change my future.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: My initial response was go to the past.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: But the thing is, if you do go to the
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: past- What are you dissatisfied about your present?
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. It's funny because this is how broken
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: my brain is. I didn't even think about my personal life.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I just thought about the politics in the world. And
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, we go back and we.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Don't write that joke.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Don't give those jokes.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Good to see you, Mr.
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: Trump.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: You're going to have a proud future in politics.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: And tonight I'm naming Donald Trump to my cabinet.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Hey, you know what you need to do? Run the
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Kennedy Center starting today. Oh, that would have been so good.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting, right? Because then you're saying, okay, I
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: would like to have information about the future to change it.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: But you didn't have that about a present you currently
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: have that you wouldn't change. And if you went back
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and gave yourself in the past information, it would not
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: only give you power now, it would give you power
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: 20 years from now. So that to me is what's
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: interesting about it.
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: It's interesting. Cool. Yeah, buy Bitcoin. Smart.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: You going past future?
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: No, I'm a real butterfly effect person. I feel like
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: anything I changed in the past might impact today. And then, like,
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: what if my kids aren't here?
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Are you already going to make out with your mom? Like,
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: why did we fly?
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I knew exactly what he meant.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: We knew what he meant.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, got it.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Like, Dan's... Tommy's like, Tommy flipped out.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: I was just saying, by the way, that Hannah enjoys
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the lifestyle now because you're a very successful media company.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: That's literally all I'm saying.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: It's true. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Who do
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: you go to in order to solve your life's problems?
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: The group chat? Oversharing with strangers?
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Jesus.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: You go to Jesus? Yeah, can't go wrong.
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: Can't go wrong.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Speak into praying and so forth. That helps.
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: I'm at my roommate's house.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, your roommate's house.
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Also a good person to talk to. Great advice. BetterHelp
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: has been helping people find solutions to their problems for
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: over 10 years. and have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: million client session reviews. BetterHelp therapists work according to strict
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: codes of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: identify your needs and preferences, and our 10-plus years of
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: experience in industry-leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: it right the first time. If you aren't happy with
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: your match, switch to a different therapist at any time
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: from our tailored recs. Fully online, you can pause your
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: subscription whenever you need to and switch therapists anytime at
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: no extra cost. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: world's largest online therapy platform. Having served over 5 million
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: people globally, it's convenient too. You can join a session
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: with a therapist at the click of a button, helping
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: you fit therapy into your busy life, plus switch therapists
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: at any time. Therapy can help. Look, we're therapy boys.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: We've talked about it. You got to talk to somebody.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: And especially if you think you don't have to, that's
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: when you absolutely do have to.
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: Good point.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that can't get therapy, and
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: that's wrong. But if you can, you should. You just should.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash PSA.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash P-S-A.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: All right, last thing before we go. You're about to
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: hear a special preview of our subscription show, Inside 2025.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: If you're not already a member, we really hope you'll
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: consider signing up. Dan? Dan? Elijah only wants you to
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: do these pitches, which I know is a signal to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: the three of us that we don't do them as well.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And he's right. And you do do them better.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: It's important that I take it.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: It makes me want to try harder.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Especially now that we're literally sub-stack competitors. I think it's
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: good for me to do this.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: It's good to see why Democrats fail, right? Because it's
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: not because of the words he's going to use. He's
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: a trusted messenger. We haven't built enough credibility. So it's
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: not like we have the magic. We said what Dan said.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: It wouldn't work.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: So the usual pitch is you would get ad-free episodes.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: You need to hang on the Discord, which are all
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: great things. People like that. But. I think the reason
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: to be a subscriber is the mission of this company,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: the company you guys started 1,000 episodes ago, was to build.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Give or take a few.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: Just go with the bit. The company you guys built 1,000
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: episodes ago, give or take a few, was to build
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: a counterweight to the right-wing media ecosystem. And when that started,
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: the idea was Fox News. And now it is much
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: bigger and more dangerous than Fox News. And the need
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: for a counterweight is even greater than it ever was before.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: You can argue that we almost lost the 2020 election,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: lost the 2024 election because Democrats lost the ability to
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: communicate with large swaths of the American people. The way
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: to fix that is not to double down on the
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: old broken media system. It is to build an alternative,
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: to build an alternative independent media system. So your $ 10
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: a month, I think it is, it goes to help
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: do that. It helps the company develop new initiatives, develop
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: new shows, get bigger, reach new audiences, find more talent.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: And so it is an investment. Just like your contribution
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: to a political campaign or a PAC, this is an
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: investment in a better, more progressive, democratic future.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Can we put some fucking patriotic music on it?
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: That's how we do it. That's why Dan does the pitches, guys.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: And we're now.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: On Substack alongside YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Supercast, and all the
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: info you need to be part of all this is
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: at crooked.com slash friends. Here's Inside 2025.
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: All right, let's do a gimmick, as Bill Simmons calls it.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 5: I'm revealing myself as a Bill Simmons listener.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, Bill Simmons, obviously, legendary podcaster, and in many ways,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: responsible for the creation of this podcast. But I don't
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: think he invented the word gimmick. Like, what?
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know, man.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: I was just like, what do I call this? Well,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: Simmons calls it a gimmick. So I'm just going to
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: call it that. Okay. Before this recording, I gave you
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: guys a prompt. Here's the prompt.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: You're a political consultant and you can magically make the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: campaign that you're working on have a robust presence in
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: any of the platforms listed here. TikTok, Facebook slash meta
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: slash Twitter slash sub stack, TV news, podcast slash.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: YouTube, and then digital and linear paid advertising.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: Rank those in the order you prefer your campaign to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: have a robust presence on.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: And then let's see how much you guys align. Dan,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: what's most important for you?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Before Dan goes, can I just ask why you grouped,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I know Facebook and Meta, obviously, but why you grouped Facebook, Meta, Twitter,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: and Substack all together?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know, man.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: I was looking back on this and I was like,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: why did I do that?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Can I redo your gimmick just real fast? Can we
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: redo it? Yeah, my thought was TikTok is just its
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: own beast. It should be TikTok is one, YouTube is another.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: Instagram is a third. Facebook is a fourth. Substack is
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: a fifth. Linear advertising is a sixth. Those are your six.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Well, now I don't know. Did I say.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: Podcast and YouTube be together? Yeah, podcast and YouTube could
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: be together.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: I think they should.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: That's fair. That is because, John, as you know, most
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: podcasts are watched on YouTube.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. Wait, so what are we taking
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: out now? Facebook, Meta, Twitter, Substack. Which ones are we removing?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: I guess you could put Twitter in there, but just
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: make them individual.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: All right. Cool.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: So Facebook, Instagram is one basically.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: No one, no one, no one would ever pick Facebook
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: in 2025. It's ridiculous.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: What's the other, what's the other option?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: Uh, parchment paper. Like what are we doing? Dan, what's your,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: what's your number one? We'll work through it. We'll talk
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: about how combined these things are. It'll be messy, but what's,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: what's your number one pick here? Uh, YouTube. And I,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: I don't think any, there's no other, it can't, you
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: can't pick another option. It's not even close.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: John.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Do you align with that?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, I do.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: I guess it's because YouTube feeds all the other ones.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: You do something on YouTube and then you get clips
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: on all the other ones, including cable news.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: That's where most people in the country are getting their
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: content right now.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: YouTube is TV. That's the thing that people don't recognize
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: is that many people are now watching their YouTube, not
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: on their phone, not on their tablet, not on their laptop,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: but on their actual television in 2024, 1 billion hours
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: of YouTube were consumed on TVs globally. And that number
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: is going up. It's particularly going up among Gen Z.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: Okay, so then what's your number two? If it's the
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: same thing, I'm going to be upset. I hope you
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 5: guys have some deviation. No, because there are clear answers here.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: It's TikTok, and you shouldn't pick anything else.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: John?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Get ready.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, please say Facebook.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: No. Well, first of all, there is a fuckload of
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: people still on Facebook, just not any people under 40.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: And under 60.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I was going to say... This is different now that we...
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: This is all fucked up now that we have changed
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the categories. But I was going to say Twitter sub
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: stack because I do think if you are running a campaign,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: there's still an influential set of people in politics and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: media that you're going to have to reach. and you're
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: gonna have to talk to, and it's not, I have
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: to sit down with the New York times or the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Washington post editorial board or anything like that. But I
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: think you kind of need, if you're going to have
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: a campaign presence, you're going to have the need to
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: have some presence, um, in the, uh, you know, in the,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: in the world of journalists, influencers, sort of the traditional, uh,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: establishment gatekeepers.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons why we're going on
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: sub stack because unlike a lot of other places where
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: people get podcasts and content these days, Substack actually has
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: a very robust, very successful discovery algorithm. I have benefited
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: from this as I spent the last five years building
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: a newsletter on Substack, and it is incredibly helpful. It
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: has helped me find other newsletters that I'm very interested in.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: It has grown my newsletter. And one of the reasons
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: to be on Substack is to help us reach new
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: people who might be interested in our content, and their
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: algorithm helps us do that. Where did you have TikTok ranked, John?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Three.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Next one.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: Okay. And then, Dan, what was your three? Instagram. Interesting. Okay.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: Why Instagram? See, I'm going to build a bottom-up campaign
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: where I'm going to reach voters first, and then the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: elites that John is fighting with on Twitter will then
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: see the success of my campaign and then start writing
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Where will they see it?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: In Iowa or Michigan or wherever the first state is
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: with all the people coming out.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: Or when I'm sending out... Yeah. I mean, we're not
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: going to not be on Twitter. I would just rather
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: have a robust TikTok presence to reach voters first than
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: then we can tweet out our massive TikTok following numbers.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: And you think that, is it just because Instagram has
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: a bigger user base than TikTok that you would rank Instagram?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Oh no, because you put TikTok before Instagram.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes. And I would pick TikTok over Instagram.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Now, why did you do that if Instagram has a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: bigger reach?
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: Great question, John. Because one, TikTok sets culture in a
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: way that Instagram does not, right? As someone who has
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: mostly abandoned TikTok and Instagram Reels from my short-term memory.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: But the one thing you know is that whatever is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: cool on TikTok shows up on Instagram like three weeks later.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: It's just it's more culturally relevant. It reaches more young people.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: It's a cultural driver of what's happening on Instagram is
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: less so.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: Dan, what I'm hearing from you is you are an
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: admirer of Zoran Mamdani's campaign.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: That's actually the one that is.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: When you talk about how you build your campaign and
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: then you get the elites last, that is an example
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: of how that works. AOC is another example of how
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: that works. Bernie, frankly, in 2016 is another example of
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: how that works in a very different media environment. All right,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: so Dan, what did you have number four? What's left
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: on the... Subsect Twitter is one combined, right? Mm-hmm. Subsect Twitter, probably.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: John?
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Did I do Instagram? No, you haven't done Instagram.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: You've not done Instagram.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: Instagram, Instagram.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Well, no. Facebook, Instagram. You haven't done TikTok. I did TikTok. Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: TikTok was his three. Yeah.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Now, and then Facebook, Instagram is four. Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: So you guys both have TV news in digital slash
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: linear advertising, paid advertising as your five and six here.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, my, my six is TV news.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I wouldn't even, I'd cross it off
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: the list. I would pick a robust early state billboard
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: presence over dominance of TV news.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I would love to have some people who are working
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: in Democratic politics right now do this because how much
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: you want to bet the digital and linear paid would
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: be further up the list than where we put it.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: Depends. Depends on what part of the industry they work in.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Do they make money off of it?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's just making money.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Some of the people who work in politics genuinely believe
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: that digital and linear paid are sort of uh, underestimated by,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: you know, the pundit class and everyone else who doesn't
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: work in democratic politics.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: I fundamentally disagree with me too.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Me too.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: And just, I think the way that here's what I'm
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: thinking about is if you are 40 years old, your
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: entire life has been about skipping ads, right? Skipping them
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: on your DVR, just ignoring the digital ads that pop
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: up at you on Facebook. When you were a kid,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: just skipping right past them on Instagram stories or Tik TOK.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: And you just are culturally attuned to believe, to not
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: believe a advertisement paid for by the people who want
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: you to vote for the person or buy the product.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: And that is like, and it's also almost impossible to
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: reach people under 40 with paid television ads because they
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: are other than like major sporting events and award shows. They,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: you can't run political ads on Tik TOK. You can't
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: run political ads on net on Netflix. The two biggest
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: platforms people spend their most time. And, or, or also
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: on YouTube, people are constantly skipping that, that ad at
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: the beginning of it. And so you have everyone under
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: 40 doesn't either doesn't get, or doesn't believe in ads
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: and next election to be 45 election after that, it's
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: be everyone under 50. It's everyone. It's just, you're just
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: reaching a, you cannot reach young people with linear television ads.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: It is, you cannot find a less efficient way to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: spend money right now.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: That's our show for today. If you like what you
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: just heard, please consider subscribing on the platform that makes
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: the most sense for you, cricket.com slash friends to learn more.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend. Dan and
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: I will be back with a new show on Friday. Bye, everyone.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: please consider leaving us a review. that helps boost this
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: episode and everything we do here at cricket pod save
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: america is a cricket media production our producers are david
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: toledo emma illick frank and saul rubin our associate producer
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: is farah safari austin fisher is our senior producer reed
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: churlin is our executive editor adrian hill is our head
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: of news and politics The show is mixed and edited
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcote,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Mia Kelman, Carol Pellevive, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: America East.