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Markets, ESG, And The Global Economic Outlook (Podcast) · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, the big take
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: story here Shannai Basset Bloomberg News. She covers all things
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Wall Street fours and how about this headline Goldman legend,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: crypto star and top banker. Weren't worn of the next
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: big risk? Like we don't have enough to worry about? Shinali,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here in our Bloomberg
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Interactive Broker studio. So you talk to these three big
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: folks on Wall Street? What are their concerns? Who did
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: you speak to and what are their concerns? I spoke
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: to three people. We do this project twice a year,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and it's my favorite because there's so many things happening
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: day to day. This is a risk management business, and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: what you have is former Goldman Sacks investment strategists now
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Columbia Business School professor to star in her entire tenure.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Really worried now and also she was known for being bullish.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Joseph Cohin she's worried about the American dream, and the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: reason she's worried is because she believes that the US
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: has really fallen off and investing in the workforce and
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: protecting its workforce via agencies. Meanwhile, we should just define
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the American dream. I mean, I think everyone has a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: different idea of what it is or is there one
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: universally agreed definition of the American dream? She defines it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: She defines it in terms of income. She defines it
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: whether every generation is doing better than the previous one.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And what we've seen, she says, over the last thirty
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: or forty years, is that media and household income adjusted
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: for inflation has not risen. And you're seeing that in
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the job market today only compounding with way just not
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: rising as flash fastest inflation. Where do inflationary pressures matter? Again?
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: With the next big risk? Ken Molis, billionaire banker, banker
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to companies around the world from Saudi Arabia to Hong Kong,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: is worried about the globalization. He thinks that's a lot
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: of these de global and these forces going to be
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: inflation or even more when you come about when you
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: come to the idea that supply chains are breaking apart
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: across the world and countries will be more responsible for
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: their own supply chains from food to energy to financial assets. Right, well,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: because we had such a big problem with globalization in
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the first place, it's not like supply chains are breaking.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: We're taking them apart, dismantling them and moving them in
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: some cases, right, so that we don't have to rely
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: on Russia or China necessarily to do the work that
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: we need to get done. And he cites this in
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: terms of Germany, for example, being in extreme trouble. But
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: when I asked if this was just about the war,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: he said, you know, think about Brexit for example, or
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: what's happening in Sri Lanka and the worry about just
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: getting basic resources to two citizens. Let's listen to same
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: bank and Freed also really quickly here let's take listen
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to what his concern is because it is different than
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the other two. A lot of the discourse around you know,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: COVID and pandemics in general has you know, as you served,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: you know, Franks focused on things like masks by the time.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: That's the debate. We have already failed at the much
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: more important goal, which is avoiding ending up there in
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the first place, by having countermeasures ready beforehand, by having
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: early detection systems, by having good ventilation in buildings. The
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: goals to get to a place where outgrages don't become
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: pandemics in the first place, and where we don't have
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to shut down, uh, you know, the economy, where people
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: don't have to die, where we don't have to make
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: trade offs, and hopefully we can you know, I think
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: spend you know, tens of billions of dollars today to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: save tens of trillions of dollars. So there you go,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Sam being been Free, the cryptocurrency billionaire who is known
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: for shoring up his industry. He's spending a lot of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: his personal capital, philanthropic efforts, charitable efforts really towards preventing
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the next pandemic, which he worries will be deadlier and
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: further cripple already decimated economies around the world. But all
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: three of these folks comes down to investment and how governments,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: particularly the US government investors. All Right, So the big
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: take story on the terminal on the Bloomberg dot com
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: slash big take you had Abby Joseph Cohen, former government
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: sex strategists now Columbia, Sam Bank, Ben Fried who was
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the ft X chief executive officer, and Ken molis Uh
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: CEO of his Molis and Company big investment bank or
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: some cool thoughts there, all right, So, Shnale, we've just
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: gotten through three four days of the big bank earnings here?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Is there when you talk to investors? Is there a
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: takeaway here that we're getting from these names? Caution, caution
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  Speaker 1: and more caution. David Solomon is addressing investors right now
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: on a call and they're asking, you know, are we
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: just going to see a huge pullback and risk among
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: corporate borrowers, investors willing to put money to work and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: risk your assets? And he's saying that people just have
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to get used to the new price of things. Is
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: there loan growth out there? Are people taking on debt
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to fund new businesses, new cap backs. It just seems
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: like I just sold a million credit card. Essentially, they
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: just brought on a million new clients in the last
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: quarter a loan and so there is some signs of
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: optimism here, but again they also lost three million dollars
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: in a loan book, as Fred's widen. So there's a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: cost to doing business for these banks here. Also the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: credit thing could be seen from the other direction, right
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: like if you need to get a credit card to
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: fill up your car and feed your family, which you
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: used to be able to do with your bank account balance,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that's a problematic. Real quick point here. Bank of America
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: only nine percent of its clients are below six sixty
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and credit score that was twelve a couple of years ago.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that Bank of America has less risky clients.
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  Speaker 1: It has shedded the riskies, said the risky and then
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: if you're a riskier borrower in America, where do you go?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And the investment bankers? Tough quarter for them, right, yes,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: for the underwriters. But Goldman sachs Is advisory fees were
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: one point two billion dollars, Paul, how do you make
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: one point two billion dollars environment length is? That's double
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: what you saw at Morgan Stanley. It's insane, wow, because
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you don't usually see that disparity between Goldman and We're
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: in Stanley on the banking side, and that tells you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: even though they said they're slowing the hiring velocity here,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: They're going to be very precise and how they do that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: All right, good stuff. Shali Bastak, she covers all things
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Wall Street for US, got the Big Take story. You
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: can check that out on Bloomberg uh dot com, slash
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Big Take or n I Big Take on the Bloomberg terminal.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Those Big Take stories are awesome, Snali, big in depth
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: reporting there, as we see almost every day from the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Big Take folks here. And we also got a summary
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: of the big investment banks reporting earnings, and a Shnally noted,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: probably the takeaway is caution. Samir Samana, senior global market
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: strategist for Wells Fargo, joins A Sames also a former
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: fixed income trader, and that's where I want to start, Samir,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at my I end go function on the
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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal Corporate, the Bloomberg US corporate total return down
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  Speaker 1: thirteen point four percent year to date. What are you
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: guys doing in the fixing co market? You know, so
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: for much of the year we were kind of been
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: playing defensive, you know, kind of strategy, so kind of
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: going shorter on the duration. We've been most unfavorable on
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: long term fixed income. More recently we downgraded credit UM
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: too unfavorable again with the thinking data slowdown will probably
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: impact spreads and there's still well off kind of their
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: historical wides, so there's probably still an opportunity to kind
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  Speaker 1: of shy away from that UM. And then now that
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: you know it seems like the Feds you know, gotten
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: some religion around you know, rate increases UM, we actually
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: took long term fix and come back to neutral UM.
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  Speaker 1: We think at this point there's probably some two way risk,
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  Speaker 1: especially if the recession were to to show up sooner
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  Speaker 1: and be a little bit deeper than people expect. So
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: we we have taken uh, you know, some of that
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: duration you know out just a little bit UM again
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be you know, leaning out over our skis. But
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: those are a couple of things that we've we've we've
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  Speaker 1: done recently. Also, I think it's worth noting munis right,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: especially when you look at the relatives to corporates and
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: relatives to treasuries UM, those seem like a pretty interesting
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: place to to put some money, especially if you're in
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: a higher tax bracket. You're preaching to the choir some here,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: but I cannot get like colleague, here, Matt Miller to
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: really jump in both feet into the muni's. I can't
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  Speaker 1: imagine the words munis and interesting in the same sense
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to be to be fair, right, you just buy that stuff,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: put it away and collect coupons, which is good, yep, um,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: but nobody trades it. Uh what about equities some here?
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I mean there has been a lot of the big
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: bears have been saying that we're halfway through this yet.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: But um, if everybody's freaked out, isn't that the time
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to buy? It's probably a good bit of damage that's
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: already been done, you know, kind of like fixing come.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: We've been playing defense on the equity side too, from
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: the standpoint of you know, we've been going up in
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: market cap from small, stimids and large, and we've been
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: going from developed markets and emerging markets to the US.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So you know, those part of this yere things have
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: played you know, pretty nicely in our favor. So we
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we have some some room maybe
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: to to be opportunistic being kind of in that defensive position. Um.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: So you know, as we look towards probably you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: kind of a recovery into next year, I think we'll
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: maybe kick the tires on some of the areas where
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: we're unfavorable, like small caps, emerging markets and developed markets,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: but we think it's much too soon, so stay kind
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: of in higher cap, higher quality areas. On the sector side,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: we're probably a little bit more balanced again with the
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: thinking that um, you know, we like energy, we like healthcare,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: we like tech. We think they have some you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: characteristics that could help them do well. Um, energy is
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: kind of your statflationary play healthcare if we tip into
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a recession, and then tech kind of has that secular
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: growth aspect to it, um, and we've paired it against
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: an unfavorable to discretionary. Right, So if you you kind
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of part and parcel growth, you've got tech, cons and discretionary,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: we're overweight tech, we're neutral cons, and we're unfavorable and discretionary. Um.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: We're also unfavorable on rates and on industrials. So you know,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: we've basically tried to kind of barbel with portfolio where
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we're not getting too defensive because again, um, you know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: with rates still low, equities are you know, still a
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: reasonable evaluation. So we've tried to be more balanced than
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: than outright defensive. You know, it feels semear. I mean,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I've been in this game for thirty plus years, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it feels like the confidence, the sentiment in the marketplace
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: today is just really bad. Whether it's a recession, whether
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: it's in inflation, uh, interest rates, It's almost kind of
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: gets me to the point of I haven't seen it
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: this bad in a long time. It almost makes me
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: feel like, maybe actually buy in here. You know, it's
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: not a bad idea to stick to a plan, right,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, if your dollar cost averaging, or if you've
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: got cash flows coming in and your continue to allocate
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to equities, I mean, I think, you know, I think
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: there's a good point to be made about you know, look,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: we started this journey at hundred. We started this journey
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in January. We're now closer to thirty eight hundred, forty hundred,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and we're already in the middle part of July. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: so you know, if you think about bear markets lasting
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a little over a year and you see them kind
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: of draw down about thirty, you could argue you that
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: you're about you know, a half to two thirds of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: the way on both price and time. So you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: again it's not a bad idea to stick to a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: plan and ta casine to allocate equities. I mean, you know,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: nobody should take what we're saying as as a reason
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to avoid them all together. I think you know, what
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: we try to do, you know, with respect to our
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: investment professionals, in our clients, is just make sure that
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: they're not surprised. And I think, you know, from that standpoint,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I think what we're at least telling them is, you know, look,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: as these rate hikes, you know, continue to kind of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: pile up and work with the lag that they normally
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: work with, you know, they're going to have much of
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: their impact in the second half of this year, and
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: so you know, it's just hard to to say that
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: you're not going to see a shoe drop with restrict
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to earnings, right. I mean, you've got consensus still, you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: showing growth for this year and next year and the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: year after that. So I guess earnings do go to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: the sky after all. Um, So you know, until those
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: expectations come down, it's just hard to say that, you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: stocks can can do well. I appreciate the sentiment piece
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: of it, but sentiment sometimes can be a little bit
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: too jumpy, right, Alright, awesome stuff. Samir thanks so much
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: for joining us giving us your thoughts here as we
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: try to navigate these markets rules, certainly for equity and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: fixed income investors. Samir Samana, senior Global market strategists at
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Wells Fargo, join us here giving us his thoughts on
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: these markets. All right, let's talk E s G. Environmental, social,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: and governance. That has been one of the big big
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: themes and investments. I'm going to say over the last
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: ten of fifteen years here in the U s and
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: maybe even longer than that in Europe. And it's so
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: big that Bloomberg Intelligence, the investment research arm of Bloomberg,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: has multiple E s G analysts and our lead E
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: s G analysts, Shaheen, contractor, she covers all things s
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: G for Bloomberg Intelligence. She joins us here in a
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. She heen. It's just been the
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: rage people like, Oh, E s G investing. I have
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: to have exposure to it. You've been telling me this
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: this for years. Talk to us about kind of where
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: we are today because everywhere you look in the marketplace, equities,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: fixed income down double digits. How is E s G
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: investing and the flows into history how's that behaving this year?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Suppose this year has been particularly interesting for E S
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: SHE especially after all the growth we've seen in the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: last few years, and this year has actually been one
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: of the few have you've seen a bit of a
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: slow down. So if you consider E S G E
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: T S as you know, it's just a slice of
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the pie. Assets at the end of the second quarter
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: with about four dred billion about decline over the last year. Yes,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: so it's just assets in E S G in E
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: T F rappers, right, not the price of the E
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: T s because they've come down more than that. Correct,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: So that asset decline, you're right, is largely because of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: market contraction, but we have to recognize that flow is
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: slowed more fresc than on. Yes, I mean my question
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is has the especially the environmental side of it. Has
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that been hurt or helped by um the inflation combined
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: with the war in Ukraine, which amplifies the inflation, right,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: because either the lack of fossil fuels out of Russia
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: pushes us more towards wind and solar, like we've got
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: to build that out faster, but at the same time
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: we're also using all the coal that we can and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: maybe turning nuclear reactors back on. Yeah. Yeah, so answer
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: a question definitely, hoot. And that's because hes she funds
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: tend to be overweight deck on the way energy, as
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: you said, and that's not been so great so far.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: To right, deck has been particularly challenged. Energy has has
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: sort of skyrocketed. I mean, you're looking at it from
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: an investment perspective, but what about maybe a policy perspective.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: It's it's boosted because even though now we're using dirty,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: dirty coal. Um, you know, politicians are saying we really
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: we need to build these wind farms, or we need
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to invest more in solar energy or solar capacentator production,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: et cetera. So over the long term, yes, this hopefully
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: will accelerate a shift to cleaner energy over the long term,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: especially to reduce Russia sort of dependency on oil and gas. Um.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But if you look at short term performance, if you
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: ask me, Hot continued for the rest of the hot. Okay,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So talk to us about just, um, where's the demand
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: coming for E s G investments? Because when I first
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: started hearing about E s G, it was probably more
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: than a decade ago, and it was from European institutional
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: investors that I would go visit. They would say, I'll
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: be talking to them about Disney and they would ask
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: me what the E S G score was, And I said,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: what are you even talking about? I mean, it's Mickey Mouse.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: How how bad can he be? Um? But now it's
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: become more of a thing here in the US. Where
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: are we kind of in kind of the development of SG.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So if you think about assets Europe, you're right. Europe
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: has been you know, the traditional sort of the heavyweight,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: but the US has got up. US assets have seen
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: It's gone from about se as a ship to about
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: which is quite substantial. But if you share total invested assets, okay, okay, yes,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: but if you consider where these assets are coming from,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I would still describe it as very institutional and still
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: very European if that makes sense, but definitely institutional and nature. So, um,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: we focus on the E, the S and the G.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Is that improving over this year? I mean, so it
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: seems like, well, here's a government story for you, Matt
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Porsche is come in public, right, and that's not a
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: good G thing because their governance there. It seems like
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: all the shareholders like if I'm gonna be a public shareholder.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I'm getting like almost no rights there in that company
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: because the rights are sticking with VW and all their
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: crazy shareholders have a family that owns all of that
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: family and right family. So what am I getting, Well,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you're hopefully you're going to participate in future growth. So
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I'm tying an E S G with an I P
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I P O big. I guess you probably don't focus
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: on that kind of government. We do? We do, Yeah,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: we do. I think governance has always been sort of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: a stronghold. It's been the E N S that have
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: sort of picked up an attention, particularly the I think
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the S has picked up in terms of attention a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: lot after COVID, but that's really been only in the US.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you ask me, the whole Tesla thing
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: is really a G issue, though everybody keeps confusing it.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: So so what is your view or what is the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: E S G view community's view of Tesla? Yes, SHE
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: community is very divided. I can tell you my view.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: So my view is that Tesla fits well within an
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: E or an impact for you know, one that creates
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: externality on the world. But if you ask me E
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: S SHE in terms of risk mitigation. Tesla's g does
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: not put it in that bucket, and I wouldn't consider
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: it as in any fund, but everybody does. Right, it's divided,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's the most hotly debated thing. But yes, a
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: lot of funds too because MSc I does have it
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: as a high E s SHE scoring company, and a
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: lot of e sc et F tend to be MSCI based,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: so it ends up in many funds. By the way,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: in terms of the debates in the E s G community,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: we had on Engine number one recently and you know, um,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: they are the I guess activist fund that got board
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: seats and two board seats at Exon. You wouldn't normally
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: think of Xon in an E s G fund. You
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: don't want to hold Xon because they're doing all the polluting.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, maybe you do want to hold
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: x On so you can control the future of the company. Correct.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: So I think that's sort of the new angle of
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: proxy voting and you know, owning a company to be
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: able to vote your feet if that makes sense and
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: create change, and that's really the strategy behind what Engine
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: one is doing. Then you vote e t F, they're
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: just going to hold the SMP five and engage with
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: all the companies. So it really depends on what you're
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: trying to achieve. When so energy companies, they're kind of
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the poster, at least for me, of you know, an
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: E s G like a poor score or a week
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: score on E s G. But some people have said
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: these guys are really particularly the European energy companies, are
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: really trying to go green, and so that might you know, say, hey,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: maybe you think about him as an E s G
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: compliant company earlier to rape the Earth of all her
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: resources in the greenest possible way. So so fun, I
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: think to your point, when I think of you know,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: E s G, I don't think of it as being
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: you know, energy is bad and this is good. I
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: think it's more within an industry, what are the better
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: performing companies, because otherwise then you just end up with
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: what you have today right on the way energy oh
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: waits something and you don't have diversification benefits. That's kind
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: of what I think. I mean, I look at an
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: E s G fund, it kind of looks like a
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: tech fund to me, Teken healthcare fund and mean industry agnostic.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah there you go, all right, chicken contractor e s
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: G Research channels for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us lie of
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. We'll talk sustainable energy here.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: We can do that with pair Reg Narson, CEO of
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Climate Rock. Climate Rock is a nastack listed stocks c
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: l R c U is a symbol to punch in
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: on your Bloomberg terminal. It's a blank check company looking
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to get into the sustainable energy biz. Per Thanks so
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: much for joining us here. Tell us about Climate Rock.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: What are you guys looking to do? Yeah, thank you
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: for thank you for having me. And you know we
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: we are sustainable energy. UM. We chose the route of
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the of the s back market to list the company
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: that would invest into sustainable energy meaning renewable energy so
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: wind and solar, hydro electric power, Global Investment mandate UM
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: in a time where you know, climate chains and so
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: it's very high on the agenda, and also where innergy
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: security at least six months have become very high in
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the agenda as well. So the combination of of these
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: sort of major UH GEO political and and and and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: do you trains in the market is suggesting that you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: we are in a in a good spot for that
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: many opportunities to do with the capsule be raised Back
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: in late April early May, UM, we raised seventy five
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: million plus a bit extra, so close to eighty UM.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And I'm looking to um acquire company or companies in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the in in this in this sector that's growing across
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: all the continents. So per I mean, you came public
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: via blank check at in April dollars to share. That's
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: kind of where the stock is right now. What is
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: your expectation in terms of the timing potentially getting you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: a defining transaction done for you guys, Well, I think
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I think we will be in a position to do
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: something in the near future with a with an idea
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to close that in the wintertime. I mean, it would
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: be great for us if we can close before before
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: the Christmas season sets in. But but you know, it's
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: certainly something that will be done within that twelve months
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that we set ourselves as a target to to conclude
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: our bustance combination. How much does it matter, um that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: markets have tanked this year and how much of a
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: problem would it be if they continue to fall at
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the same pace. Well, it's in's in general, it obviously
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: makes a big difference. I think, you know, when we
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: look at our specifically, you know, we did at what
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I would call a relatively small I p o UM.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: That means that we are relatively speaking less exposed to
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: any redemptions. UM. We are looking at potential targets that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: would create a very attractive market value on top of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: of where we are UM, and we're looking to executed
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: transaction where you know, there will be as little casts
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: going out of the deal as possible, so everybody stays
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: in in in the stock, and therefore we have to
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: raise less capital uh and then execute this UM. The
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: reason for that is that we see this potential business
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: combination being a growth stock, and we believe that we
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: have opportunities to grow significantly after the dese bag UM
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and and that would give us the opportunity to raise
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: various sources of capital now at the same time, not
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: being an ip or tech stock, but being renewable energy start.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: We also expect to be able to use a business
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: combination with a cast glowing business to allow ourselves to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: have a sort of relatively conservative combination equity and debt.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So we we position ourselves to not having to raise
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: too much cast and raise the cast through a combination
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of equity and debt, and at the same time probably
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: also bout being in in in a sector which is
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: one of the I will call the mega trends in
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the market position us to have you know, um less
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: redemption than average. So renewables is a broad broad space
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: here where specifically are you guys most interested in? So
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I think that two ways of looking at it geographically,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and actually that three geographically sector wise. And then where
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: do you want to be in the value gain the industry?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: And and we certainly see a business that will combine
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: some operating cash flows from service income with some activities,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: uh you know, in development, so that we are bringing
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a combination of resilient long term cash flows with the
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: off side of of development across solar and wind. Mainly,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I believe is where you know, you can safely be
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: at the moment. We don't like to go into sectors
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: where we're taking too much pizza risk, but we could
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: go into hydrogen. It's an interesting sector. It's a very
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: hot topic. It's also an area that is UM you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: has a real demand UM just taking industries, you know
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that the consumption in global industry hydrogen is about two
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: on a billion dollars a year, so if you completely
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: replace that the green hydrogen, that's a massive opportunity for
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: for comp fungus. Al Right, Pat, thanks so much for
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: joining us. Pere Regnarson their CEO of Climate Rock Tick
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: or c l R. See you. Thanks for listening to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Pet On Ball Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio