Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 362. Being Delusional Is A Good Thing: How To Garner Self-Belief & The Perks Of Setting Big Goals With Madeline Hill Of 'The Sports Gossip Show'

Transcript

362. Being Delusional Is A Good Thing: How To Garner Self-Belief & The Perks Of Setting Big Goals With Madeline Hill Of 'The Sports Gossip Show' · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I don't need to please everyone, and I know I don't.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: What's going on everyone?
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Emily A Badi Here, You are listening to episode three
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty two of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: where I talk to inspirational people about everything from their
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: highest ties and tavist to moments to essential tips on
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: how to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life. We
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: all go through our fair share of hurdles. My goal
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: yours and move with intention so that you can stride
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: towards your own big potential and of course have some
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: fun along the way. For today's episode, I am chatting
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: with Madeline Hill. She's the co host of the Sports
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Gossip Show and creator of the sub stack in personal
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: We were both out here this week in Paris. You
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: can probably hear it in my voice a little bit
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: cheering on faith kick yegun as she went after a
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: four minute mile. Now, for those of you that have
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: been following along, she did it in four six forty two,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: and Madelin and I are talking all about it today.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: We talk of the vibes, get into some of the
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: cool tech that was involved in the attempt, and how
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: watching someone go after a big, scary, crazy goal really
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: motivates you to set and go after one of your own.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Madeline talks about how she got into media, what it's
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: been like building her platforms from the ground up, and
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: the importance of being a little bit delusional to go
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: after the things that excite you, something that I can
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: certainly relate to. We talk about her upbringing and how
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: she got into sports, what her favorite topics are to
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: talk about, and although you hear from me all the time,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: we do get into some of the particulars on what
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: it's like to be a podcast, what goes into producing
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: a show as wildly popular as The Sports Gossip Show,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: and what her hopes are for the future.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I've got to give a layup to Nike.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: It was so fun to meet Madeline out here for
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: this special moment, not just for women in sports, but
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: for sports as a whole. It's definitely got me thinking
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: about what's next, and I might have some updates on
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: that for all of you quite soon. Make sure you're
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: following along with the show over on social It's at
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Hurdle Podcast. I'm over at Emily a Body and if
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: you're not yet subscribed to the Weekly Hurdle substack.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Get in on that now.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: So much of the same inspiration motivation you love from
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: the show directly in your inbox every single Friday. The
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: link to do that is in the show notes. With that,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: let's get to it, let's get it's a hurdling. Today,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Madeline Hill. She's a self
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: proclaimed sports gossip enthusiast, co host of The Sports Gossip Show,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: and writer of the Impersonal fel Maddeline Hill.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Hurtle. Thank you so much for having me.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, what would a few days in Paris
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: be without a podcast?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on, I'm so impressed that you brought
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: your mic, the whole setup.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: We got the setup.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I traveled with no mics. I just traveled with myself
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: and my glasses and.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Myself and my glasses. That's all I need, That's all
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: you need. We're, like I said, in Paris. Yes, we
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: had the opportunity to watch something pretty great last night
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: with Faith Kip Yegan running the attempt for the four
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: minute mile.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Thoughts feedback. It was incredible.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I wrote with this in my substack because I went
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: into it, I think a little skeptical that she was
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: gonna do it. I was like, she's not gonna do it,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't even thinking about, like if she didn't
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: hit it, what the other alternative outcome was, or what
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I would think about it, and what I thought about it,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: like when she was going around the term was like,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: she is doing something that is unbelievable. She had a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: dream to do it, and she actually followed through on it,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: which to me was the most incredible takeaway. Was not
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that like, yes, did she break for no, but like
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: it kind of was irrelevant.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean, I agree with that.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: I was having a conversation with someone who kind of
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: came at me and was like, I don't know, like
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: it was so hyped up, and then like she didn't
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: do it, And I just said to them, you're missing
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the point. Yes, you're missing the point, because how many
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: things happen in your life that you don't even dare
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: to try. You let that inner voice, that self talk
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: come at you and persuade you not to go for
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: the thing that excites you to the thing that's challenging you,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: take the easy way out, and so watching Faith do
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: something that was not only so challenging, but then doing
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: it in such a public way, I'm like, well, shoot,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: I gotta get I went for a run today.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you feel motivated.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Well, it just takes so much guts encouraged to actually
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: do the thing that freaks you out. Yes, you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: most people don't ever get to the point of actually
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: doing that thing, and for her to do it on
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: such a public stage is just so impressive.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And her not it doesn't even matter, doesn't even matter,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: doesn't even matter.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: I will say that I was totally drinking the kool
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: aid the closer to.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: The otten, so was I.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: That we got like, because I, as a fan of
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: track and field, was like, Okay, that's a lot of time.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: She was working to cut off seven seconds basically from
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: her mile time.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: That's hard. Yeah.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: But then as we learned about everything, we learned about
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: the technology, we learned about the shoes, we learned about
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: the pacing strategy, we learned about the pacers, and we
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: heard about the basically replicated attempt with another athlete who
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: was able to cut off three percent from.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Their previous mile time. Yeah.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I right before we walked into that stadium, someone was like,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I think she's going three fifty six.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, whoa, maybe that's a little spy.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, too much kool Aid, too much cool aid.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But I it was so awesome to be there.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: No, it was amazing. I mean it was truly like
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I do think
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: she's going to break four, Like I think it'll happen.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: This episode's coming out on Monday.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: She is going to be running at the pre Classic
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the following weekend, and she is going out there with
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: hopes to pr in the fifteen hundred.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: It's wild because if I had just set this goal
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: of breaking four and then you know, I was like,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I want to take a break, let me take a
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: break from trying to break another record, and she's already
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: like no, no, no, next weekend.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I'm already striving for my next goal.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: It's like that is like the most impressive motivation to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: like get your shit done that you want to do,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like she's already like, no,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go work on my next thing.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm on it.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: She's built so okay, okay, Well that was our five
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: minutes on faith yes, Madeline, what got you into sports?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Talk to us, give them, give them a lowdown. Yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: So I never worked in sports traditionally.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I was always a sports fan, more on like the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: casual side my parents got to when I was very little. So,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: like any good child of divorce parents who would spend
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: nights at her dad's house, how do you bond with
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: your daughter? But put on sports and Sports Center. So
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I watch a lot of sports with my dad, like NBA, NFL,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: MLBU name and I probably watched it. And I was
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: always fascinated by the off the field stories and was
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: constantly like googling the Wikipedia Personal life section of athletes
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: because I was like, I don't know their stats, but
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I am interested in what's going on behind the scenes.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So then flash forward present day, I'm still doing all
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: of that. I'm doing that, but I started working in
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: social media. So I was working in entertainment in LA
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: doing social media strategy for media companies, and I was
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: like always kind of thinking about the sports world, but
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I just didn't really feel like there was a place
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: for what I cared about, which was the sort of
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: off the field coverage around athletes in a way that
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: wasn't sensationalized or really trashy and was like a little
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: bit more thoughtful. And so when I heard about substack
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, I was like, wait, I feel like
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: this platform could be an interesting place to just kind
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: of brain dump these thoughts I've been having for years
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and all these Wikipedia deep dives I've been doing on
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: my own and telling no one about. And so I
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: launched my substack. Didn't really think anything of it. I
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: honestly didn't even really take it that seriously until Taylor
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Swift and Travis Kelsey started dating, and then it kind
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of felt like the world woke up to like, oh,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: there are people who can be sports fans who don't
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: necessarily know every single stat about every single player, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: like they are out there and they care about sports
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and the narratives that are happening off the field, kind
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: of behind the scenes, learning about the shoes like the
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Faith is using, for example, Like there are people who
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: are only interested in that, and that still makes you
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a sports fan, right, And so I kind of came
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: at it through like a back door, sideways way. I've
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: never worked at like a sports publication in my life.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so in this okay, it's blowing up because Taylor
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Swift and Travis Kelce are together.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: What did that look like for you behind the scenes.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Well, it looked like more TikTok followers at the time,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: because I was weaning some tiktoks. I've not been very
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: good at my tiktoks, I must admit, so I need
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to get back on that. And then more newsletter subscribers.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So I started getting more newsletter subscribers. And then I
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: started getting outreach ironically from like traditional media outlets asking
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: for me to comment on things related to like Taylor Swift,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Travis Kelsey, what does it mean to be a casual
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: sports fan? Like it was just so funny that, like,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: these were people I read as a casual sports fan
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: and now they're asking for my opinion about being a
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: casual sports fan.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: So it felt very full circle.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: When someone asks you what does it mean to be
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: a casual sports fan?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: What is your response? I think my response is it's
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: just being a sports fan. Yeah. I think for a
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: long time.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Sports has been seen as, oh, this is just for men,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: this is like their way of bonding, and oh they
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: care about all the stats, and there isn't a space
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: for maybe women or people who just aren't super invested
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: in these players like entire historical journey of the sport
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: that they play. And so for me, it's like anyone
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: could be a sports fan. And I I think as
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: time has gone on since like the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I think more outlets and more people just in general
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: and entertainment in the media space and the sports space
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: are realizing that, like there isn't really anything that is
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: necessarily a casual sports fan anymore. I think you kind
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: of just there's just a spectrum almost. Yeah, maybe of
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: being a sports fan. I totally hear that.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: So when you identify, let's say, like your top three sports,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: where are we going, Oh, don't make me do this.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: This is like choosing a favorite child.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, I would say, right this second, the NBA because
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: NBA Finals. We talk a lot about the NBAM the
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Sports Gossip Show, because unfortunately, these men are messy. So
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: there is messes. There is a lot of drama. That's
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: just how that is. I'll leave it at that. I
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: would say number two. Okay, from a drama perspective, probably soccer,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: like Premier League is really really messy. There's so much
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: happening all the time in that space. And then I
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: would say WNBA because it's also messy and there's also
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: drama where like players have dated each other and then
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: they break up, but then they are traded onto the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: same team. So I'd say in that order from like
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: a drama perspective, if I had to say.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: If you had to say, And I appreciate this context
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: because I think that for those that are getting to
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: know you, they understand that it's not just women's sports
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: that we're into.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: No, No, we don't discriminate any any sport. It doesn't
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: matter male, female.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: We don't care.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: If there is tension at the center of the story,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about it.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if there's tension at the center of
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the story.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: If it's messy.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: If it's messy, it can also be like it doesn't
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean it has to be like a divorce or
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: something like. We obviously talk about a range of topics, like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: for example, we had something recently where we were talking
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: about how all athlete weddings look the same on the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Sports Gossip Show. I do remember listening to this, Yeah,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and like that to me was more of an analysis
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of like wedding culture. What does it mean to showcase
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: your wealth in a very opulent way by using a
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: bunch of really compressed flowers in like a floral art
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: shape that every single athlete has the same floral arch.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on if there's a conspiracy
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: in the wedding industry to get all these athletes have
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: the same wedding aesthetic. But it's like, we'll have these
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: deep dive conversations that are messy in the sense that
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, what is the kind of drama here?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily messy in the same way as like, Oh,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a spouse cheated on their significant other and we're going
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to talk about that. We may talk about that too,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: but like we also want to talk about the conspiracy
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: theories in the wedding industry.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: So naturally as one does obviously you want to talk
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: about the conspiracies and the wedding industry, but naturally as
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: one talks about things that are messy. You have an
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: opinion that I am sure at times many people agree with,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: many people don't agree with. For you, how does that
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: feel to be someone who's inserting yourself in this way
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: and then having people come at you and being like,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: what the hell is going on here?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think at first, when I was making a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: lot of tiktoks, as I mentioned, I was bothered much
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: more easily. Like if I said if I got a
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: player's team wrong or something like that, I would really
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: kick myself, mean like I should have known that, I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: should have known that like detail about that player, I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: got their team wrong, whatever, And I would read the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: comments and was just like a little bit too obsessive
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: about it. But I think as time has gone on,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I've just kind of carved my own space in the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: sports world, being like I am not a sports expert.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I am a sports gossip expert.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So like ask me about a wag, asking about an
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: athlete's wedding esthetic, Like, I am the expert there, But
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you should not be coming to me for stats about
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: players Like that is just not who I am. It's
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not what I talk about, it's not why you should
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: be coming to me to hear my perspective. And so
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I think it's made me a little bit more confident
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in my lane, and it's made me look away from
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: just kind of all these comments that I do see.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I think as time has gone on, I've gotten
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: less and less of them because I just always caveat
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: like I am not a sports expert.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Go to ESPN, like go somewhere else for that. Don't
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: come to me.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't be asking me about how good Tom Brady's
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: completion percentage was like in some random season, Like why
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: would I know that?
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: No, but you will know about.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Now, oh oh yes, I will know about all the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: details of his doors.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: It's something that a lot of people have a hard
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: time with, this idea of how do I not care
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: so much about what other people have to say about me.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Or my opinions for you?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: As you've gotten to this place almost I would say
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: it's detachment a little bit.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how has.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: That benefited you to be able to kind of step
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: away from being so concerned about what either people are
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: saying in the comments or really just unconcerned about people's
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: opinions of you in general.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think if I didn't feel detached, I never would
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: have started the sub stack in the first place. One
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: subsec was a new platform, so was already there was
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: unknown and unturned of territory there, like what is this thing?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Anyone going to look at this?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: And two like it took a really long time to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: build on there, like I was maybe at like two
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: hundred subscribers, like a couple months in, like no one
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: was reading it. And so I think very early on
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I had to be detached from the outcome and wherever
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it was going to take me, because if I was
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: too hyper focused on it, like I don't think I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: would have ever launched the podcast with Charlie, Like I
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: don't think I would have increased the cadence of the newsletter,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: started making tiktoks, Like I just don't think any of
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: those things would have happened if I stayed attached to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: any sort of outcome or what people thought of me
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: in that way. And I think by letting go, it
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: opened up so many more doors. I mean, I feel
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like everyone always says this and it sounds woo woo,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: but it's like when you kind of let go of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: maybe like any expectations you have of yourself or of
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: what the outcome of this kind of career pivot may
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: look like, you open up so many more doors that
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: really weren't possible before.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So what are some of the doors well being here?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, this I feel like is a perfect example,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: like five years ago, if you had told me that
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I'd be watching one of the best runners in the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: world with Nike try to break four minute mile, like,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I would have thought you were absolutely insane, because, like
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it just it was not even in my brain to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: even think that this was something that I could potentially
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: go cover, right, you know, I mean I was like
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: just looking at athlete divorces and like on my own
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to think that that could lead me to hear only
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: happened because I detached myself.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I think for any outcomes, you knoweah, yeah, no, I
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: mean it's totally understandable. And I think that it also
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: is an important lesson example of.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Finding the joy in the journey.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: You were doing something that you really enjoyed, and so
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: when you focused solely on that and stopped worrying so
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: much about numbers, about what's next, about really thinking about
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: that long term trajectory, then you had the opportunity to
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: really come back within and have fun with it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I also think what helps, and I always say this people,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: is like, you got to be a little delusional, yes,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Because if you're not a little delusional, I think you
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: don't have the confidence to keep doing something that no
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: one is doing. Like at the time, like there was
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: really very minimal coverage around behind the scenes stories of athletes.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Like if you went on New York Mag's website, for example,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: The Cut, which I love The Cut, there wasn't a
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: sports section. Now they have a sports section, you know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and it to me, it's like you were kind of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: talking into the void to no one, and if you're
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: not a little delusional, thinking like, oh, this idea I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: think has something here and I should really kind of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: follow it and follow it through, Like it is hard
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: to commit to it because like it's not like I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, I want to go be a beat
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: writer for the Lakers or something like that, Like there's
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a very clear career path, and like what sort of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: pivots I would need to make to be able to
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: do that, to be like I want to be a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: sports gossip expert, Like who do you ask about that?
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You know only yourself?
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And so I think you need to be a little
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: delusional to like be able to kind of take take
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the risk. In the same way, Fate's probably a little delusional,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you know, Like she was like, I believe in myself
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: this is crazy, but I'm going to do it right.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do it.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And there's also a certain level of letting go of
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: the fear that comes with knowing that it's possible that
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: it might not go as you'd hope. Yes, right, So
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: letting go of that fear enables you again to be
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: more in the moment and so many of and I'll
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: say us, because I've certainly allowed this to happen within
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: my life before. We're worried about what could happen, and
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: so we don't act. Yeah, it's just one of those
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: things that when you get to a place where you
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: can let go of that fear, really dope shit can happen.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Again, I wouldn't be in Paris with Nike right now
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: if I wasn't a little delusional, a.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Little delusional, you know.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: So you have this career history working in social media
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: and strategy and marketing. How do you think that has
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: helped you get up into this point with both the
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: sub stack and the podcast.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I think from a sub sec perspective.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: So I used to do newsletter strategy for some of
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: my clients and then in previous jobs, so I had
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: a bit of an idea of kind of how to
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: put together a newsletter strategy at a time when you know,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people in my position
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: had those sort of jobs. Maybe some did, but I
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: didn't know many, And so I think that helped, just
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: from like a marketing standpoint, thinking about, like my headline,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: it needs to be catchy, but it can't be too
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: clickbait of your people will get really annoyed, thinking about, like, Okay,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: do I need to make a social account for my
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: new letter?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: How should I promote it on my own social channels?
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Creating social assets and templates, Like I kind of thought
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: about it as like a little mini sports gossip media
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: company of sorts, you know what I mean, even though
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: it was just me. I'm an employee of one not
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: getting paid, Like I thought of it as a business,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and the same applied to the sports gossip show. So
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: like I run our social accounts, I cut all of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: our social clips. I think about, like, Okay, this athlete's trending.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: We should probably cut a clip of this athlete and
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: put it on TikTok. So it's like I'm constantly thinking
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: about the brand of this broader sports gossip cinematic universe,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: so to speak. When I'm making decisions about like how
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to promote it, which I do think has been helpful.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: But then I do think there are some downsides where
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: like because it's almost like I know too much, Like
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I've had too much work experience running other social accounts,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: creating newsletter strategies for brands, that it's like then I
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: want to do like a thousand things, and it's like
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I'm only one person. I mean, now I'm Charlotte, which
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: is amazing, but it's like I was only one person
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: doing the newsletter and running social for that.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a lot of work.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to talk about Charlotte in just a second.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: But I also think that a problem that can go
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: with coming from a place where you did it for
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of other brands is before you almost have
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: like this accountability buddy, right, and now as you're doing
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: it for just yourself. And I hate that I use
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the word just, but it's almost easy to be like
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: it's fine if I don't do that, yes.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'd be like, oh, I don't need
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to promote the newsletter today, and then I would sit
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: for ten minutes and then be like, uh, I do
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: need to promote it. Let me make a video, let
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: me post it on my Instagram story. And you know what,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: it did help convert people. So it's like, well, you
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: do kind of have to do it, even if you.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Don't want to exactly. So, where do you meet Charlotte?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So I meet Charlotte. I did not meet Charlotte in
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: person until last September, okay, which is crazy. Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: So she had written a blurb for a newsletter I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: had done about the NBA Finals. I think it was like,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: what is your favorite piece of NBA gossip this season?
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And so she wrote that last like May ish And
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: then after she did that, I was like, oh, we
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: should get on a call. We hadn't met each other,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: we just were Internet friends. I was like, let's just
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: chat on the phone. We get on the phone, on
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: the phone for like two hours, and it was one
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of those moments where very quickly we were both like, wait,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I think you're my person for this, Like I just
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: felt it. And so I was telling her about this idea.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, I really want to do a sports
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: gossip podcast, but like, I don't know if I should
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: do it with a co host do it by myself.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Like I also don't come from the sports world, so
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: like I had some contact contacts that I had sorted
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: building up, but like I didn't know a ton of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: people in sports, you know. And so we're talking. Charlotte
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: was like, well, are you looking for a co host?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: And I was like maybe, and she was like would
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: you be down? And I was just kind of like yeah,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: And it was just a moment. I think we both
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: just trusted our guts and intuition to be like, yeah,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: you are the person to do this. Like I just
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: felt right. She's a sports expert. She has so much
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: experience working in sports and knows so many people that
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I was like I trusted her like editorial expertise, her
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: journalistic expertise or reporting expertise, that like I didn't have
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: those skills, but that I could bring those other skills
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to the table, like the entertainment side, the marketing piece
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: is like those things I was able to bring to
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: the table. So our skill set just like was perfectly aligned.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we didn't meet each other in person till
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: September and then we launched it, which is crazy because
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: we like really put a lot of eggs in that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: basket hoping like it was going to work out because
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: like what if we recorded in person and like we
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: didn't vibe, you know, like that very easily could have happened,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and like luckily everything worked out. But yeah, it was
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a wild, like crazy short couple of months to launch
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: What I'm hearing you say is that you definitely have
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: a complimentary skill set when it comes to Charlotte's background,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Just for those that may not be familiar, give us
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: some context on that editorial expertise that she brings.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: To the mix.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Charlotte was a journalist at Fox Sports Sports Illustrated.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: She hosted an NBA podcast with Metal Lark. So she
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: like comes from like og sports world. If she's listening
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: right now, Like she she knows everything about sports. Like
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, who is that athlete? She's like, oh my god,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: how do you not know who that is? Like that's
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, And I'm like, oh my god,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you are a genius. You know everything about sports. She
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: used to like cover college football when on this huge
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: sec college football road trip. So she is like deeply
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: embedded in the sports space, which has been such a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: huge advantage, especially to provide like actual sports knowledge context
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: when we are talking about an off the field story
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: that maybe is impacted by some on the field performance.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: It's so interesting for me to hear that you at
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: a moment where you weren't sure if you needed or
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: wanted a co host, right, because when you think gossip,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you think two people having a conversation.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't even know what it could have
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: been otherwise.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I think for a while it was like, well,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe it could be like a show where
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: it's like I'm interviewing behind the scenes people in sports.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: That was like a version I had been thinking about, like, oh,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: what if I interviewed NBA stylist that I had interviewed
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: for my newsletter and make it more of a deep
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: dive about their career and like understanding how they work
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: with athletes, So that sort of angle, And then I
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well, then what about another angle where
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it's like I'm having rotating guest hosts based on like
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: what season in the sports world it is where we
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: are on the calendar. But then I was like, I
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: don't feel like that creates a sense of community with
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: listeners either, well, like.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: It makes me think of like Jenna and Friends, right now,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: like I'm miss Koda. I know, I'm miss Soda, and
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: like I understand on the concept and like eventually they
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: want to find someone to do it with her all
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the time. But I agree, like I love the idea.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: I listen to many podcasts that are like the same
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: people giving, like talking to one another all the time
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: co hosts, and I you know, I'm jealous.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: A little bit.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Oh maybe if you got a little rotate, like a
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: guest host occasionally or something.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I can't do Jenna and Friends on her.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That's fine, Yeah, I will say I think specifically, like
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: our podcast lends itself to being like better with two people.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I think because it's gossipy and it's humorous often, like
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: we're laughing in pretty much every episode. That I do
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: think if we were switching a person out every single episode,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: it would be hard to get in the rhythm of
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: banter back and forth, you know, every single week, I
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: mean and again, unless you did it like a guest
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: host or something, right, like a little Jena and Friends
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: It's just a recurring series with one person. Yeah, right,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for the feedback. If there's a recurring series,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: what should it be? Who should be on I mean
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: the DMS. So besides being a fan of sport and
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: you'll not bring what was your relationship with playing sports?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I played volleyball my entire life. I think from
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: third or fourth grade. I played competitive year around volleyball,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: played in school, club volleyball, like traveling, staying in like Hampton,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: in's around America. You know, one of those kids. So
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I loved volleyball, so that was like my focus. I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: played volleyball through college, but college I didn't do like divisional.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: It was very baby level volleyball. But yeah, I played
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: volleyball all the way through. And then kind of in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the middle of that though, they tried to get me
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to do track and field because I was tall. They
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: wanted me to do the hurdles, but I was like, no,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. So I could have
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: done that. And then same with basketball. They tried to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: get me to play basketball, and I was like, just
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: because I'm tall doesn't mean I'm going to be good.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to play ball. I'm sorry. It
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. No, No, doesn't work, it doesn't work. I
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: love the Hampton and Tour of North America.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: A lot of like Ma Giano's and Olive Garden stops
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: if you know you.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Know, if you know you know, Unlimited Solid and both
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: sticks for the West, for.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: The experience of playing sports coming of age. What do
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: you think that that did for you? What skills did
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: it offer you or teach you that you're still using
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to this day.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, to tell me so many skills that
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: taught me about teamwork, how to deal with adversity, how
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: to deal with when things aren't going your way. I mean,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: there were so many times that we'd be down like
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: ten points, like and when you're in seventh grade, you
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: feel really impacted by that. You're like, I'm terrible at this,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I'm the worst. We all suck and it's not like
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: something that you can easily get over. But I think
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: when you get in the rhythm of failing often it
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: really does help you in your regular life. It's like,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: how many times have you failed? I failed in our
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: normal life, screwed something up at a job, or whatever
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: the case may be. That it's like, I think having
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that adaptability that you learn, especially in team sports. I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: think when you're like learning how to deal with other
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: people's personalities when maybe someone's not having a good day,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: and it impacts the whole team, Like just how to
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: be able to adapt to any sort of variable that
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: can be thrown your way. I think comes from that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: experience playing sports as a kid, especially when you're playing
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: sports like your whole life.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: You know. That's the theme, right, The theme here is
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: that these difficult moments and these hurdles and these challenges
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: are the moments that teach you who you really are.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I don't learn a ton about myself in the winning.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I learned a ton about myself on the journey to
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the w during the moments where I am like down
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: and out and crying because the job fell through or
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: the workout went awful, or I feel as though I'm
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a complete failure.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: That sucks in the moment.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: But that's the stuff that helps you realize who the
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: hell you really are.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think about like even just
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: with my newsletter, like didn't come from a sports world.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I did it for five years until I'm like now
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: doing this thing with Nike, you know what i mean.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: It took five years to get to this point. Yeah,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: it's not like this happened overnight. There were times where
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I certainly wanted to quit. I was like, this newsletter
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: got a really terrible open rate. No one's reading it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Why did I spend so much time researching this story,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and like no one's acknowledging it. I felt like I
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: was talking to no one. And it's like I put
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: in the work and dealt with all those obstacles. And
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I do think that that experience in sports as a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: kid really does help you with things like that of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: just like being able to persevere. And it's cheesy, but
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: it's like never giving up on your goal. This is
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: your full time thing. Yeah, tell us how that works.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: So we have our substack for the show, which we
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: do have some paid subscribers from that, and then I
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: have paid subscribers for Impersonal Foul, and then we have
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: some exciting things in the work for the podcast and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I can't say yet, yes, I can't say.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: So that also is revenue.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: And then I do a little bit of consulting still side,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: because the reality is is like this is a new territory.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I think for a lot of brands to get into
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the space, and then I'll do like branded partnerships for
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: my newsletter as well. So that's been really fun and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to like feel my voice is being validated by brands
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: as really cool because it's like, who would have thought,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: like five years ago that someone would pay me to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: write a substack.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Do you remember who the first brand was that reached
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: out to you?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yes? Tell us about that. The first brand was Kennel
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Jackson and it's a wine.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Do you know that the line and not to it
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't free spawn. I'm not getting paid for them right now,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: but I think they're like the number one selling chart
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: nay in America's line.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Wow, some crazy is some great they were.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I think they still are the official wine partner of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: the NBA and the WNBA. And so I paired like
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: certain NBA players with wine, like their wines, and it
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: was so fun and it was like in my voice,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I can't believe I'm getting paid
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to write this newsletter about players I love and about wine.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Like it was just like the best combination. And I
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: was like, this feels fake, you know, it feels like
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: a fake job.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Lebron's a big wine guy. Oh, he's a huge wine guy.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: He loves wine. Did you compare him to a Kendle
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Jackson wine?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. In that one if I did. I
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: don't think I did. I don't think he was in
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that newsletter. I have to go back and check. I'll
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: have to check.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I can't even imagine like the comparison or where we
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: would have gone with that. No, I don't think that
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: he would have appreciated it.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: He would have sent me a DM like I have
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: some words, Rich Paul's like, I have something to say
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Man, speaking of someone sending you words.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, have you received words from the actual subjects of
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: the Sports Gossip Show? You know? No?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: The closest we've gotten to words was we if you
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: listened to the Sports Gossip Show, you know, we covered
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Bill Belichick and his twenty four year old girlfriend, Jordan Hudson.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Bill Belichick quarterback or quarterback, can you about it?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Not a quarterback, head coach of UNC football, but was
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: famously the head coach of the New England Patriots. And
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we attended Jordan Hudson's beauty pageant in Maine because we
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: felt like it would do a disservice to our coverage
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of the story if we didn't go see it in
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the flesh, see her in the flesh. For a minute,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I thought she was like going to try to talk
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to us or something, you know, but like we weren't
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: trying to invade, like we really were there to observe.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: And then we did an episode about it. The day
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: after we release the episode, she started following us on
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Instagram and we thought like, oh my god, she's gonna
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: like send us a message or something like she's just
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: gonna say something.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: She didn't say anything.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: We've reached out her twice because we want her to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: come on the show, but that's the closest was the
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: follow and she's like keeping tabs. But I would love
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: for her to come on the podcast. You've only reached
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: out to her twice, only twice? Well, we've they've gone
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: on red, you know, I do you know? Maybe I
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: need to overcome that hurdle at this under a third message.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Well, what I'm saying is there's a way on Instagram
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: to not let people.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Know that you've read their message. Oh no, I know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I know. So are we sure that they're on red?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: We don't know that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: See, Okay, I don't know. So what I'm saying to you,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: you don't know. You don't know until you try for
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: the third time.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, third times a charm? Maybe there are times to
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: charm me.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Taking a break from today's episode to talk to you
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: about Pillar performance. I have recently started dialing in on
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: my nutrition in a way that I've never really done before,
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: and that means adding in creatine and collagen to the mix. Now,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: when you hear creatine, you might think of mail bodybuilders
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: loading up to gain muscle mass. Well, yes, that can
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: be true, but research has evolved significantly in the last
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: two decades to reveal that creatine can give you a
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: powerful advantage when it comes to body composition, bone health,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: cognitive function, and even sleep quality. I take five grams
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: of Pillars creatine monohydrate creature every single day. It's one
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  Speaker 3: and I am seeing major benefits. Not only does research
• 32:26
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• 32:30
  Speaker 3: which I am experiencing, but I'm also seeing a shift
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: in my.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Overall body composition.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: And while I've been strained training for a minute now,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: I can promise you I have not changed my core
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: routine and I may have visible app a single one there.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I said it. Now.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: Pillar sells other supplements outside of creatine and collagen. They've
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: also got a triple magnesium powder which I cannot get
• 32:58
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• 32:59
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• 33:00
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• 33:22
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• 33:25
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• 33:29
  Speaker 3: While I am talking about brands that have changed the
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• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Got to talk about Future.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I have been using the Future app for almost three
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: years now, wow, and I am hooked in a world
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  Speaker 3: of over promising and under delivering things. Future provides the
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• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Working one on one through the app with my coach Brandon,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: not only like gotten to a place where I have
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: a goal now that is actually it's attainable. It's intimidating,
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: but it's attainable. To get ten pull ups by September.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Younger me could have never imagined that possible. Listen, working
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• 34:18
  Speaker 3: with a coach by your side wherever you go, you
• 34:20
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• 34:22
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• 34:24
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• 34:34
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• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I love the.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Through line here though, of the importance of persistence, and
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I find it very endearing and also exciting to hear
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: about the wins that you're experiencing right now, many of
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: which weren't even on your radar when we're talking about
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: starting the substack or of course you know when you
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: got to the place last year of starting the podcast
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: when you think about what your maybe next big goal
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: or thing that excites you is what comes to mind.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Well, for the podcast in particular, we want to be
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: in the top ten sports podcast. It's a bunch of men.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: For the most part, we've gotten close. We got to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I think sixteen recently, which was crazy, like it was
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: just us and then a bunch of guys, and so
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I think that was really gratifying and just reinforce for like, oh,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: we're doing something right here, Like people clearly are resonating
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: with this. Men and women like people like this content.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: But I think cracking the top ten and staying in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the top ten would be a huge stream And just like,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: how ridiculous is it, like of a sentence that you're
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: like scrolling through top Apple charts and it's like the
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Sports Gossip Show is in there with all these huge
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: male podcasts or like it just feels silly. But also
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: again I think, being a little delusional, we're like, no,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: that will happen. Like we got close in the same
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: way Faith got close to breaking forward, Like we got
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: close to doing it, and it's only a matter of time,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I think, And maybe that's a little delusional, but I'm like,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I see the vision, and I think that, especially for
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the podcast, is a huge goal of ours. I think
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: for the newsletter it would be increasing the cadence. I
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: would love to think about like bringing in guest writers
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: from time to time. I think that would be really interesting.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: They're now a lot more really interesting people and kind
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: of like the sports adjacent world on Substack, So doing
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: more collaborations there and getting a better like content calendar,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: cadence to do some of those features I think could
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: be really interesting, and then working with more brands on
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: substack I think alsould be great.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: What's the most difficult part of being someone who shows
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: up in this way on the Internet.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: I think the most difficult part is putting yourself out
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: there every single day. Yeah, like you know, I mean,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you know what it's like when you have an online presence.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: It's like you kind of can't take a day off.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I would love to take a day off, but it
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: is really hard to do that, Like you're always kind
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: of online, and especially when you're in the kind of
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: news adjacent space, like you're always checking the news number one.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: But then you're also always thinking about like, Okay, what
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: sort of content do I need to promote on my
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: own social channels? What do I need to put on
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: sports gossip show? Do I need to make a reel
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: right now about a topic? Do I need to make
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a recap video on something? And so I think it's
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: the kind of always on thing that is challenging and
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: making sure you don't get burnt out because it's very
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: easily to burn out.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: When was the last time you consciously unplugged.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Consciously unplugged? It's been too long. Honestly, it's been too long.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: It's been too long. So you're telling me you don't remember,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I couldn't tell you.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Also, here's the problem, tell me about it. Because I've
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: worked in social for so long, I talked to so
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: many other people who work in social, like, it is
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: very difficult to be off because you are working weekends.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I worked crazy night shifts when I worked in entertainment
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and was working like award shows, you're live tweeting night.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: And to undo that switch that took a really long
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: time for me, Like that only took until maybe like
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago that I finally was like
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: undoing that feature of myself. Yeah, and so to really
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: unplug is very difficult because you're like you're just kind
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of embedded. And you also, I think, feel like if
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: you take a day off, what if you miss something?
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You know, which isn't true.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: It's like you could take a day off and everything
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: is fine, But I honestly don't.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Know if you were to take a day off, how
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: do you think it would make you feel.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I'd probably first feel like I don't know what to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: do with my time. Mm, you know what I mean,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: which is clearly a sign of burnout, I would guess
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: because I think you feel like you're so used to
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: being like not even on edge is the word, because
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I don't feel on edge, but like going, going, going
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: all the time, and you're like just kind of getting
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of stimulation from the Internet that it's like
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: if you unplug, then you're like, what do I do
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: with my time now?
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Which you clearly enjoy doing that, yes, oh yeah, yeah.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: It's not creating the content like I love cutting the
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: clips and all of that. It does take a lot
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of time, but I do really like doing it because
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: it does feel like it's my purpose to be able
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: to be a sports gossip expert. So even though I'm
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: drained oftentimes and I'm like, oh, I don't want to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: promote this like what we were talking about earlier, I
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: don't want to post this Instagram story, I do know.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: with my life, and so it also can fuel me,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and so it also makes it more challenging and take
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it off because I'm like, I do enjoy doing this.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's funny because I'm sure there's someone
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: listening to this that hears you say I feel it
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: in my bones that my purpose is to be a
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: sports gossip expert, and they're like, oh my god, this woman. However, however,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: there is something really beautiful in that. At least that's
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: how I'm seeing it, because you have this almost inexplicable
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: sense of I'm doing the right thing, and everyone has
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: the opportunity to experience that feeling that calling that purpose.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: It's just again, wow, how many times can I say
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: this in one episode? Are you maybe a little bit
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: delusional enough to figure it out?
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: When did you first feel that sense of purpose with
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: this work? Was there a certain day moment experience that
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: gave you that feeling? And where do you feel that
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: in your body? Well?
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I feel I feel very physically in my body. I
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: do a lot of like somatic movement. I don't know
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: if you're familiar with that, and that I feel things
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: really physically. And I think when I really felt like
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: grounded in sports gossip which sounds crazy or sports adjacent content,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: because it wasn't this wasn't really sports gossip.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah was.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I interviewed the guy who created art but make it sports.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with those accounts, but
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: he basically if you're not, he pairs moments in sports
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: with pieces of art that he remembers from emory his
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: over like five thousand images. I interviewed him, which I
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: was shocked he agreed to do this. This was very
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: early on in my sub sect, maybe a year into it,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and it went really really viral, and all these people
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: in sports started following me on Twitter pre x time,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: and I remember being like, oh my god, these huge
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: sports writers are following me on Twitter. This is I
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: can't even fathom this. And I felt so grounded in myself,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: being like, oh, this is what I'm meant to be doing,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Like this feels right. And to get acknowledgment from these
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: people who have been grinding in sports for so long
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: in our legends and their own right was crazy, Like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it was just it felt bananas. And so I think
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: part of me on one hand was like this feels
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: insane and shouldn't be happening. But then the other side
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: of me is like, no, this should be happening. Like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I've worked hard to get here and to do this interview,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: to edit it myself, get it up, like, that's a
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: lot of steps to overcome to make it happen. And
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: so to get the positive feedback was just so gratifying.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: And isn't it funny that the positive feedback can be
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: as minuscule as.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: A follow Literally, isn't that crazy.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: It's not like I got forty five interview requests or
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: like job offers out of it. Nothing really happened out
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of that. I got some newsletter subscribers, right, But it
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: was more validation from people who are in sports to
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, okay, if these people think this conversation
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: is interesting, I'm on the right path. Not that anyone
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: should rely on external validation to do what you want
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: to be doing, but I do think when you're in moments,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: especially doing something by yourself and not with anyone else,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: it's good to have a little bit of external feedback
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: to help keep you going and be motivated.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: How do you find the intrinsic motivation to keep showing
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: up when you are feeling burnt out?
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I think because I see the vision, like I know
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and so
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: It honestly makes me not want to take it off
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, this is what I want to be doing.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: I spend a really long time doing jobs that were
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: really draining, like working in social For anyone who's done
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: that type of work, like, it is really exhausting and
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: you get burnt out very easily. And there is nothing
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: wrong with doing those jobs, but it is just really
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: really challenging to keep the momentum to keep doing it
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: year after year, and so to finally be able to
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: like find the thing that kind of takes those skills,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: but then also these new skills in this new area
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: that I have never worked in makes me feel alive inside.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like I'm excited to talk about sports
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: gossip because it's what I should be doing. It's not
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel draining in that way. There are days where,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: of course, I'm like I don't want to send a newsletter.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired, Like I've just cut a bunch of
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: clips for the podcast, like I just don't want to
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: do this. I've finished a consulting project, like I don't
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: want to do this, but I know, like this is
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: only going to help me in the future if I
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: continue to stay consistent, because if I don't, I think
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: like you can kind of lose steam.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, totally easy to lose steam. And I
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: appreciate what you said about being a beginner at something new.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: You can be a beginner and be excited and also
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: admit that you don't have all the answers.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I don't think I'm the best writer.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I don't actually think I'm a very good writer, you
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. I think I have my voice
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and found my niche. But I think it's just getting
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: over the hump of being like people are going to
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: be critical of what you say or how you write,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: or you got the spelling hair wrong here, there's like
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: who cares?
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: You just have to start and do it and be consistent. Yeah,
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, writing isn't rocket science. Writing isn't brain surgery.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: No exactly. I think that bad is going to happen
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: if there's Ean and I and nice to know who
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: cares who?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But there are going to be people that that do care.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: And so that's the stuff that you have to get
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: to the point with that you're like, Okay, those aren't
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: my people.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: They're not my people, and that's okay, and that is okay,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Like I don't need to please everyone, and I know
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I don't. I certainly know there are people who are
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: annoyed that I'm like coming in the sports space. I'm
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: talking about sports gossip. I say, I'm not a sports expert.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It's like, I get it. I get that people are
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: into that, and that's fine. They have their own audience
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: in their own line, and I'm not trying to get
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: in that line.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: So for someone that is a sports gossip expert, what
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: does your regular sports consumption look like?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Great question.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I watch a lot of sports because again I'm
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: interested in what's going on the athletes. We talked about
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: this on the Sports Gossip Show that you can tell
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of what's going on off the court by
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the vibes on the court. And we always talk about
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: vibes like you could tell, for example, during the Super Bowl,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: like the Kansas City Chiefs, like the vibes seemed off,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Like I was like, did they get in a fight
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: before this game? Like, nothing crazy dramatic, but it just
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: felt like internally there was some tension and something wasn't
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: quite right. So I watch a lot of sports. So
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: obviously during the NBA Finals have been consuming a lot
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: of that. I've now started watching baseball because it's sort
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: of in the middle of baseball season in full swing.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: I was watching all the Stanley Cup Finals. Never watched
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the Stanley Cup Finals before, but I was like, I'm
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: into all this draw mother fighting all the time, you know,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a classic hockey fashion. So I'm pretty much like constantly
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: watching sports on a weekly basis.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: How does this impact your personal life?
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Well, my husband is a huge sports fan, okay, so so.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: It works out for me. I think it'd be challenging
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: to be married to someone who was a sports fan,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: considering we have sports on pretty often.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: In our household. Yeah, what's he do for work?
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: He's a graphic designer Okay, so yeah, and he he's
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: also like a huge NBA fan, so like we're both
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: deeply invested in the NBA Finals and like NBA Twitter
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: and like sharing memes back and forth.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: So I do think that also helps.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Like if I was living by myself and was just
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: watching games on my computer or something like that would
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: be a little challenging.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Now, before when you were saying that the thing that
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: helps you harness that intrinsic motivation when you are feeling
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: a bit burnt out is that you can see the vision.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Was there a certain exercise or anything that you did
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: to really articulate what perhaps the best case scenario is
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: either for the newsletter or the podcast or the other work.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: That you do.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a great question. Not necessarily specifically for the work.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: But I do think I'm very Type A. If you
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: can't tell, like, I am very Type A to a fault,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and I had to really do a lot of internal
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: work to undo a lot of that, because I think
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: being very Type A means you don't want to do
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: something a little bit different with your career like I
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: was like on LinkedIn when I was sixteen, not cool,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: like I was very into working.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I started interning when I was sixteen.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I was like I want a job, I want to work,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: And so that meant I was like putting myself out
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: out there for these internships and these jobs like that
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: probably I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. But because I was
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: confident in very type A and like I must have
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: a career, like I must do this thing, that it
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: took a lot of undoing to do that because to
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: pivot to be like I'm going to go start a
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: sports gossip newsletter. When I've worked at these name brand companies,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: doing social media strategy like that is a hard thing
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: to do. So I did during the pandemic actually a
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: two day like virtual retreat kind of thing with the
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Hoffmann process.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know what that is. It's amazing.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: I would love to do the full week, but it's
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: kind of all about like your internal self and also
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: your family and how that can impact your upbringing. But
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I do think the benefit that came out of it
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: was being able to let go. That was something that
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: was really challenging for me, of like letting go of
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: outcomes and being like, it's okay to make a pivot
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: when you're very type A.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: That's hard to do.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: It's also okay to quote unquote not be perfect. Yeah, right, exactly.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: So when you have this idea in your head that
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: this is how I should be executing X or Y,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: that is really hard to step away from. Yeah, as
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: a type A person. Yeah, And I also get I mean,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: here's the practical thing. So it's like I didn't have
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: family financially supporting me making this pivot, Like when I
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: made the pivot. I was still consulting.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: It's not like I was just like screw this, I'm
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: like living on all this fancy money.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Like I was working and consulting during all this.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: So that was hard too, where it's like you're balancing
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: like Okay, now I have to like budget financially because
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I'm not working as much. I'm
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: working for myself. Freelance clients come and go, but I
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: still want to do this thing over here. And so
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: it's like you're kind of like your Type A and
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Type are like parallel pathing a little bit. So I
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: do want to be mindful of like the practicalities of
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: this was not like one day I woke up and
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: I was like I'm just gonna do this and like
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: it's all fine, everything will work out. It's like, nah,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: you still got to like make money and pay rent.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, make money and pay rent.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: And it's hard for or individuals that maybe recognize that
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: they aren't someone that would thrive being their own boss,
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: which there's nothing wrong in that, or perhaps they just
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: don't understand what goes on behind the scenes. It can
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: be challenging for those individuals to have any sort of
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: understanding that it is possible to figure it out and
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: do well for an entrepreneur or for a gied worker.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: I have people either in my comments or my DMS
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: I would not say regularly but sporadically that always ask
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: if I come from family money. I'm like, I'm just
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: two divorced parents as well. Yeah, when I share that
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: in common, I have divorced parents. I paid for college myself.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: I pay for my apartment myself, Like, I pay all
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: of my bills and I've just figured out how to
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just figured it out. And it's not to
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: say it's not hard, Like it is hard. And I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: think there's this misconceptions of it when you like, I'll
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: see someone and then I'm like, oh, they're like they
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: got some money from somewhere or whatever, and it's annoying.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: It can be frustrating, but also like you just have
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: to see, like I'm on a different path, So it's like,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: how do I make this work If I do want
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: to make a pivot. If I don't, and you want
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: to work a normal job, that's also fine, right, And
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: that can also still be challenging, and it has a different
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: set of challenges, but I think just acknowledging that, like
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: this doesn't happen overnight, and also like I still have
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: to pay my bills, And it's not like I just
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: abandoned my type A self. I just was able to integrate.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I think like this type be self to take more
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: risks slowly over time, and now I'm able to take
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: bigger risks that I certainly was not able to take
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: five years ago exactly.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: So it's so interesting to me also being somewhere like
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: where we are now seeing so many people that work
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: for one single company, right, one single organization, because I
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: have moments where I'm like, how cool is it that
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: all of these people get to work on these projects together.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: I am someone as a Gemini that likes to collaborate,
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: which can be challenging as a self employed party of one. Yeah,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. I feel like there's always moments where you
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: want some of the things that you don't have. But
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: then I take a step back and I'm like, but
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: how much freedom and opportunity and any fun do I
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: get to have?
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: When I don't need to report to a boss and
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: a director and a chief and their VP.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Right, and there are pros and cons to everything. It's
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: like sometimes I'm chasing down a client to pay me
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: who hasn't paid me a while.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean. And it's like, well, if
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I had a normal job, i'd get paid every two weeks. Yeah,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: and that is that.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Like things like that come up, and so it's like,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: there are pros and cons to full time jobs working
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: for yourself. I don't think there's a right answer. I
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: think it more comes internally of trusting your gut and
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: your intuition. I'm like, what is best for you and
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: going back to what you're mentioning it earlier about just
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: like feeling things in your body, Like I trusted my body.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is what I'm meant to be doing.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And for other people that maybe is a nine to five,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and that's also fine.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Was there a moment that you debated not continuing with
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: this stuff, like seriously debated.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: It, honestly?
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: No.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because I was a little delusional the
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: whole time and I'm still delusional about it, you know. No,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: But I think the only reason I thought that was
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: because I was still consulting and I had a financial
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: like plan be you know what I mean. If I
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: was one hundred percent invested in just doing the newsletter
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: in the podcast. Like let's say that was the only
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: thing I was doing, and at the time it would
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: have only been the newsletter, Like I think I certainly
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: would have probably given up because I wasn't making money
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: for years on it. You know, it's not like money
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: started immediately, and so you need to have some sort
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: of safety net.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: It's frustrating when you're in that position because and I
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: talked about this recently on the show with a girlfriend
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: of mine, Lauren, who's a photographer. She had a full
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: time job in marketing and was starting to really get
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: serious about her photography and booking a ton of gigs.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't until she decided to really go all
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: in with the photography she had been let go from
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: her other job, that she started to reap the benefits
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: of that dedication of.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: All of these new doors opening.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: And that's scary as hell, yeah, but also it might
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: be hard to jump in, but once you do, the
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: water's fine.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you opened so many more doors. Like even
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: the minute I started, this was so small, but I
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: was so paranoid for so long of how I was
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: being perceived online because I didn't post any tiktoks or
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: reels on my social media accounts about sports. The minute
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I started doing it, it kind of like cracked things
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: open and like, oh I had some videos go viral.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Oh I got more subscribers. Oh I had more brands
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: reaching out. It's like, Oh, that only happened because I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: kind of let go of expectations around what it could be.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Breonna Weize came on the show a month or two ago.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: She's an author and she now is like wildly popular
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: with millions of readers. And she said to me that
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: when she was beginning, one of the things that she
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: was concerned about is this same what are people going
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: to think of what I'm doing here? And she put
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: out an Instagram story that was essentially like, Hi, I'm
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: going all in on being a writer, and this is
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: how I'm going to present now. And you can get
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: on the horse and come with me, or you can
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: off and like go take a swim or something like
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: that feels better, whatever works for you.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Like I'm not bothered by it, but this is just
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: what I'm going to do now.
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: And this goes back to our conversation on You're not
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: going to be a person for everyone.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: No, and that's okay. That's okay.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: You don't need to follow me if you don't, it's
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: totally fine. No hard feelings, Its no hard feelings.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: I love that you've never had a moment where you
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: were like, am I doing the right thing? I think
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: that's really inspiring, and I don't necessarily know if that
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: is always the path. I certainly feel very purposeful in
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: the work that I do. I know where I want
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: to go with it. However, there have definitely been moments
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: of challenge with the podcast and just some of the
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: other things I'm doing in my career, Moments when people
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: have said not yet, and I'm like, is it ever
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: going to be yet?
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Right, So I find that very impressive. What would you
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: say has been, however, one of the most challenging moments
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: since you started the sub Stack in twenty twenty.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: I would say letting go of the old career self.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: That has been the hardest thing for me. It really
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: like it has taken years to undo that. And again
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: it's like I'm still consulting a little bit because it's
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: like I still haven't fully let go because I also
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: need to pay bills. It's you know, it's like that's
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: just the reality. But I think that's been the hardest
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: piece of being like you're on a path for so
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: long and you can kind of see if you Joe,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I'm a social media director, that I'm maybe a senior director,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: then maybe a CMO one dy or like whatever that
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: that path look like, and then to be cool, I'm
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: just getting off that train. I'm doing something completely different.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: It's not like I'm like, oh, I'm going to go
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: work in influencer marketing. It's like a side door to
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: social media strategy. It's like I'm doing something completely different.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's been the most challenging piece.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the vision of being like, oh, are
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: people into this sort of content. It's like we've seen
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: it in culture right now. It's like people are into
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: these side stories about sports and fashion, their weddings, whatever
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: the case may be. So it's like I'm confident in
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: that in the subject matter, but it's more like my
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: own internal work of like letting go of like, Okay,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: this path isn't working anymore for me, but this new
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: path is, So how do you tap into that and
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: slowly really let go of everything and that's freaky.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: What are the stories in sports right now that you're
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: the most excited about.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, okay, well one of them I'm speaking
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: of Tom Brady. We talked about this on the show.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Is we're fascinated by the types of posts he pins
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: on his Instagram.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Oh. I don't know if you've noticed this. Tell me more.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Our theory is that this is based on no evidence.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: This is just vibes.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: We're just going off of vibes that when he pins
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: like a shirtless post on his Instagram, which he has done,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: or he posts a lot of Instagram stories, he's trying
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: to thirst trap for someone he wants to talk to. Okay,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: like a potential girlfriend or something.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's pretty standard behavior.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: It's standard behavior, but it's funny to see it on
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: his level because he's so famous that he's like just
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: thirst trapping like the rest of us.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: He'll pin the shirtless photo.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it might still be pinned. Actually I don't
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: know if that one is, but there was recently a
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: pin photo of him shirtless.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Next, that's another levels going on here, So that one
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: was really interesting. Also, the NBA Finals, I think, just
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: as a story in general, because you know, if you
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: don't know a lot about the NBA, it was two
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: non major market teams in the finals. So on paper,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this isn't a quote unquote sexy finals.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: It's not like the Lakers versus the Celtics, this like
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: series that's like all about this rivalry blah blah blah
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: blah blah. And the stars are young players. It's not
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: like there's a Lebron James esque figure on the team.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: And so I think that was just really interesting, just
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: kind of the cultural conversations around this series and mean, like, oh,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: it is the series quote unquote lame and then spoiler alert,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: it became one of the most iconic NBA Final series
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: of all time. It went to Game seven. Poor Tyres
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Haliburn got injured in Game seven, which was so awful.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: But like, it was just such a fascinating series and
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: there was so much tension I think within like the
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: media space and the conversations around the series that I'm
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: just super fascinated by.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: You are here in Paris right now and have vocalized
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: that this opportunity is something that you couldn't have even
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: dreamed of. When I say to you what's on your
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: vision board for LA twenty eight?
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: What's there?
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh, don't make me answer that. Interviewing Simobiles, Oh,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. If she's I mean, will she compete,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but in some capacity that would be amazing,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: or just interviewing any gymnast for TEMSA would be iconic,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: whoever is on that team. I would also say a
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: dream would be to have some sort of like color
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: commentary show during the Olympics around what's happening off the
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: field with these players, like to give some sort of
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: comments for people who maybe don't really care about the
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: specific stats of players or the actual in game content,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and it's almost like color commentary that's live during the
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Olympics about all the players' personal lives.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: All right, well, June twenty twenty five, this is when
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: we're having this conversation and I cannot wait to play
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: it back for you the month before we're both out
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: in LA.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I would didcasting eight.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: Right now, someone goes to your Instagram page and they
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: see what you have put out there into the world,
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: which is that you are indeed a sports gossip enthusiast.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: But when you look in the mirror. What do you
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: see looking at you? Ooh, great question.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I think I see someone who has changed a lot
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: in a short amount of time and made a lot
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: of pivots and has been really fearless through the process.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Like again, even when I was younger on this weird
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: LinkedIn path dming people on LinkedIn when I was sixteen,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: I think the through line there was being fearless and
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: not being afraid of someone say no. It's like I
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: got a lot of opportunities because I just wasn't afraid
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: of saying someone saying no. And I think that's been
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: something I keep trying to think about time and time again,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: that like, even though I'm on doing this like type myself,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I'm making this career pivot, It's like the through line
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: through all of it is that I'm okay with the outcome.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: I'm being fearless and it is what it is. No
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: one has to love me, and that's fine. I'm excited
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: if with what I'm doing, that's all it really matters
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: at the end.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Of the day.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: The last question that I ask in every episode is
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: if you have an opportunity right now to offer yourself
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: going through that difficult moment of letting go of the
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: Type A in pursuit of the greatness that comes with
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: being a little bit more Type B.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Knowing what you know?
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: Now, what advice do you offer yourself? You're already We're
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: already there.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: We're already there. You were already on the right track. Yeah,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: it's like just being curious. I was on the right
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: track being curious about like, what is this new platform?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Let me start this newsletter being curious? What am I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: going to call it? Have you my husband's a graphic designer,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: make a little logo, like, you know, being curious about
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: all these little tiny steps I think has led me
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: to today. So I would just continue to say be
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: curious because you just never know what doors are going
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: to open, truly, like you really have no idea.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: It's cliche, but you just really have no idea. What
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: is out there for you? What is out there for you?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Matteline Hill, Wow, this was fun. This was so great.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: For those that aren't keeping up with you, just yet,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: give us all of the details. Where do we find you?
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Where can they follow you? Hit me? Yeah?
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You can follow me on Instagram at matt Underscore Hill.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: You can follow the Sports Gossip Show on Instagram at
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Sports Gossip new handle. We just got, I know, very
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: exciting on TikTok We're at Sports Gossip show and I'm
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: on TikTok at impersonal foul? Did you have to pay
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: someone for that? No, we just we worked some connections.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: We got we got the handle. Very excited.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: Oh man, I'm over at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: Another Hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time